Jon Wexler: The Untold Story Behind Yeezy and Adidas' Biggest Era

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Last day of All Star Man, it's been a fun weekend, sir. Good weekend man. Shout out to everyone who's participated from Uh.

00:00:06
Speaker 2: We got what doctor j and Game. We got a guest here.

00:00:11
Speaker 1: We'll introduce him in a second, but great day at a lighthouse yesterday. Shoutout Lighthouse. Yeah, Max Jr. Simba came through Wawler Craig Hodges shout out DraftKings for the partnership during the weekend. Yeah, there was a lot of stuff going on. Money Line. This episode is present you by money Line. Download the money Line app. Visit moneyline dot com to learn more money Line Make money Easy. The gentlemen I'm about to introduce. I was in disbelief when we jumped on a call. What was that two months ago? It was it about two months ago, because they told me we were meeting with this particular person, and I'm thinking, like, you're always gonna do do collapse with our merch. I'm like, yeah, right, So I googled to see if there's another one of this person and there's only him. So when I jumped on and saw his face too, I'm like, there's no way we're about to collab. But this is one of the most influential people behind the scenes sneaker culture fashion. The Kanye Whisperer had a hand in the Yeasy brand at Adidas. Alongside with Yeay, He's worked with the likes of Kobe Bryant, Tracey McGrady, O g Sonny Kerrol Reill, Jimmy Butler, Luca Beyonce. The name and the names continue to go on. We're hoping he has story for days and he's going to share some of those with us. As I mentioned earlier, he recently collabed through DraftKings with our drop our capsule for All Star twenty twenty six. Without further ado, let's welcome to the show, John Wexler.

00:01:49
Speaker 3: Crazy.

00:01:50
Speaker 4: Appreciate what an intro that I need to bring everywhere.

00:01:54
Speaker 1: We've had a long as of guest. That was the longest introduction I think I've I.

00:01:59
Speaker 4: Appreciate you getting through. Yeah, no, for real, that was I'm honored just to be here. Like I said, I'm a huge fan of the content that you guys have been creating, and uh, you know, just to be sitting here I think I told you earlier. Yeah, it feels surreal.

00:02:11
Speaker 1: I appreciate thank you for what would you say, obviously a man of many hats and have helped a lot of influential people in our culture, what would you say your gift is.

00:02:20
Speaker 4: I'm still trying to figure that out. I think I just listened to what people are saying and try to tell them the truth to what is happening and what the consequences outcomes need to be when they asked me a question, So instead of blowing smoke up their ass, I just kind of shoot them straight and helps people save time. And so a lot of those people you listed in that intro, I can remember instances where they would you know. For instance, with Pharrell Arthur Holding Now, we're backstage at the Voice kind of just talking to him about what we're going to do for the following year, and he mentioned someone that he wanted to bring back to the brand and I was like, actually, we're not going to do that. And he was like, I've been bringing this person up for six months and other meetings and it's just been people getting quiet. And I go, oh, yeah, that's the corporate way of people saying no. That's the silent no in corporate. I'm like, I'm just shooting you straight man. We're not going to do it. Everyone with that person before and it's like we can't get it done. And he was like I love you, right, and I was like yeah, okay, you know, and it just was like normal part of doing business.

00:03:18
Speaker 1: But I also think too, because when you get to that level of work in brands and caliber of people, they don't hear a ton of nos you know what I mean. They don't hear a ton of nose from people that they can trust and lean on. And if you're one of those truth tellers type people, I mean I get I give that a lot of respect as well.

00:03:36
Speaker 4: True, yeah, my job.

00:03:37
Speaker 3: I mean.

00:03:38
Speaker 4: I remember in twenty four thirteen, right after Kanye signed the deal and actually announced it on that Angie Martinez show. It was like the morning he interviewed with Charlemagne and called me and was like, I didn't leak it, And then he went on Angie in the afternoon.

00:03:51
Speaker 2: And it leaked it.

00:03:52
Speaker 4: He leaked it, but it was great. I was like the world finally heard. But then he set up at our New York office and there was like a line of reporters out the door, and it kind of shut down the team's ability to work in our new York office. So the office called me and said, hey, can you find another studio for him? And this was like the first week of the partnership, and so I found another studio for him. My friend Teddy Luliakis came to the rescue. Shout out Teddy, and I called Kanye and I was like, hey, man, how's it going in there? Actually, first I called Nick Allain and I was like, how's the vibe in there? He goes, Oh my god, I've never seen anything like this. Kanye turned this whole office into this amazing, like multi like creative space, and it's this amazing studio and the energy here it's amazing. We have these sewing machines. It was a beautiful moment. And I was like, okay, cool, I have to call him right now and ask him to leave. He's like, oh, he's not going to do that. And I hung up the phone and I called Kanye and I remember my leg like twitching while I'm calling him, because you know, it's like an uncomfortable Calmo, And I'm like, hey man, it's not just my job to tell you to get news house. I got to tell you the bad I need you to get out of there. And I have another place for you to go to. It's like a couple of blocks away. We set up at eight am and he said, oh, no way, this place is amazing. You don't understand. He talked for another ten minutes, and I got dude, I just gotta shoot you straight. I got to get you the fuck out of there. And he goes, all right, fuck it, and he handed the phone to Virgil, and so that I was like, Virgil, don't worry, I got the studio. We're moving all this stuff out.

00:05:11
Speaker 3: It'll be there tomorrow.

00:05:11
Speaker 4: And sure enough it was all set the next day. But yeah, my job was also that no guy, I'm telling people the hard news. And I've had many of those convos. I'm a firm believer that when you have those discussions that they if you have in the right way and a way where mutual respect is shown, that you can actually get closer through those moments then create more distance. And I think that that is the sort of the one of the things that was the key to my sauce. Kanye would say that my secret ability was getting him to He would always say to like the senior executive Vida's hit, my job was to get him to approve shoes and say yes to our ideas and figure out how and sometimes that would happen in a minute, and sometimes that would happen over a course.

00:05:54
Speaker 2: Of a year and a half.

00:05:55
Speaker 4: But you know, I was also the uh he told Ronnie fig once it was his uh white boy skinny approved news. Unless I wore the shoe, I would not get get made.

00:06:08
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's funny.

00:06:09
Speaker 4: Ronnie called me. He goes, bro, you're not gonna believe this. I was like, he said to me his thing, and he goes yeah.

00:06:13
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, I heard it.

00:06:15
Speaker 3: Can't be surprised with what he said. Let's stuff with Kanye, all right. Read this tweet from five years ago, Yay wrote, after you left Adidas, God speak to my brother John Wesley. This man changed the game with the Adidas deal and helped bring Adidas to a to a sixty two billion dollar market camp and made me a multi a multi billionaire. Thank you, John, you changed my life. How do you feel when you hear that?

00:06:37
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a it's a real nice acknowledgment of of what what went down and what we were able to accomplish. You know, as a as a kid, who grew up in Chicago suburbs during the era of the Bulls and their their heyday and watching the Jordan brand blow up and being one of those kids who bought him at Athlete's Foot when that was in the mall at the Northbrook Court. You know, like literally five different sneaker shops that could compete at a thing called malls, which are now on your phone. So anyway, but yeah, I mean so I've always loved that brand and sort of be able to build something with the cultural equivalent at that moment in time. You know, it was lightning in a bottle and we captured a very special thing. So for me, it's almost impossible to put into words, but that tweet when it came was special to me because I'd already left the brand. Oh that was just an acknowledgment of the announcement when it finally went out. I was living in Cody, Wyoming in twenty twenty working on the building the space out there, and I had a ranch, he had a ranch. The whole team was out there. We built up this factory ish space that was like a more of a sample lab where he built those first phone runners that shipped with his Gap launch, But so I was living out there and it was like a week before COVID and my brother called me and told me that he had gotten ill with cancer stayed four brain cancer. So I actually pulled out right then. It was like two days before Rudy touched all the mics, so I was in New York for that, and so when that tweet hit, actually not spoken to him for a couple of months at that point because I was like already with caregiving and stuff like that. So it was just really nice that that went out. You know, it's kind of didn't expect it and totally out of the blue. I remember as I started at Shopify though, it was really funny because they were like, yo, the announcement went great. It was the most Google searches you've had for your name in a long time. And I was like, that could because Kanye tweeted John Lexo changed my life or something.

00:08:40
Speaker 3: You know.

00:08:40
Speaker 4: They were like, oh, yeah, sorry, because you know, he didn't at me, he just put my name in there. Someone was like, who's this John Wexley guy. You know, I thought that was kind of funny, but yeah, the guy was. It was a special moment in time those eight years, and you know, we built that business. When I left it was one point eight billion, and then launching, oh sorry, launching twenty fifteen February, Adida's market cap was twelve and their stock was like twenty seven. And at the point of that tweet, when I officially was gone, their market cap was sixty. So that's whatever that difference is in billions and value to a brand, And you know, Yeezy was one point eight of that, but the halo that it had on that brand even today, the perception of people is based on that moment. And the truth is is that in twenty twelve, when I was given the green light to attempt to sign him, which took about a year, Adidas was it was Nike one, Jordan two or I'm sorry, Nike under Armour, Sketchers Jordan Adidas Wow. So we're the fifth largest sneaker brand at that time, and the brand's business would go in the wrong direction. We were reporting in euros to the stock market where our market cap was twelve. I'm still I'm still surprised that like a VC didn't come in and strip the company down and do what they've done to other sneaker companies. Recently, so we got very lucky. Oh look at you guys.

00:10:27
Speaker 3: Pull it up. Let's see, what was it. Fifteen?

00:10:30
Speaker 4: You were twelve? Twenty fifteen was the day we launched.

00:10:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that's thirty and nine. And then okay, five years later when you leave.

00:10:41
Speaker 4: Whatever that data that tweet was yeah.

00:10:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's like yeah five times.

00:10:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, the market cap went from twelve to sixty. So I sailed out to say Kanye was the first guy that wore the boos shoes ultra booze, and that was obviously a huge thing for Adidas in twenty fifteen, and it blew up. But I remember being on a phone call with the presidents of foot Locker worldwide two weeks before that launch because I was the only one who knew the plan for Easy. I was the one who was saying to Kanye, we're going to launch the app, You're to come out from behind the curtain. You're gonna have the shoes to kids, because in that era, you know, kind of like how Nike just restored the feeling out here this weekend with like those I mean, you know, sneaker fights were always a bad thing then now it's kind of like, oh, sneaker lines are back, kids are fighting, and it's like sneaker love is back. So it's kind of weird industry.

00:11:29
Speaker 1: But take us back to that initial phone call with him in August of twenty twelve, when you said you attempted to sign him. What was the backstory to that? Was something you shot to the brand they shot to. You wered the idea of, so let's try to get him.

00:11:44
Speaker 4: I'm glad you asked that. Shay Pope, who was running Good Music, called Todd Krinsky, who was at Reebokadada's own Reebok at the time, their partners before ABG took him. And Todd called me and said, I've known Shaye all my life. He said, Kanye is frustrated at Nike. He's ready to leave. And I was like, ah, we need to work with him, like we need that, and Todd was like, all right, let me talk to Shae. And then Todd talked to Shay and sure enough, my phone rang a couple like a month later, and it was Kanye and it was that phone call you're talking about. And he talked for about an hour about his vision and about everything he wanted to do, and you know, kind of laid out the plan, and it was such a scattered call I couldn't really take notes. So then the next day we got it back on the phone. That time I was ready kind of like had a piece of paper with like, all right, these are the topics he said yesterday when he talks about him again, kind of put that in phone in an organized way so I can get the team understand it. And we put the deal together and then he passed, so he said no. And so now fast forward to June twenty thirteen. He's now on tour with Jesus. He's done all that stuff, and we're shooting an ad out here in La for Derek ros Shoe and I actually have a cameo in it, and it's with Common Big Sean uh Tiva Jefferson shot the photos for it. Dom Kennedy is in it, and two Chains is in it. And I remember saying to my lawyer that night, I go, I bet Kanye calls me tomorrow morning, because all these good music dudes are going to go to his house tonight and he's to say, why are you here, And he's gonna say, I met this Adidas ad and he's going to think about the deal, and sure enough, the next day I woke up to eight miss phone calls from him and we n spoken in a couple of months, and that was when he says, John Wexler saved my life. The phone call he's talking about is that call, because on that call, he's like, John, I cannot sleep, I can't eat, Like this deal is affecting my life, Like we have to get this done. I cannot like function. I have all these designs in my head. I can't get my ideas to the world, like imagine how you would feel if you were that guy and you knew what like if only people listen to you sooner kind of thing. And so I was like, look, man, perfect timing. Look at that, Look man, perfect timing. Like let's go get it. And so we put the deal back together and that was June, So Fashion Week New York Fashion Week. In September, I go from the Y three show to Jimmy Fallon where he's rehearsing for Bound, and we kind of like drafted up the deal at all. The German execs already come into town for Y three for that show.

00:14:20
Speaker 2: How did you sell that real quick?

00:14:21
Speaker 1: Not to cut you off that that the German, I mean German company, the leadership, How did you sell the black cultural side where they kind of just hey, we need something?

00:14:30
Speaker 2: What was what was the cell there?

00:14:32
Speaker 4: So to win in the sneaker market, you have to win in North America and all things start here. So that was like step one. The the CMO of Adidas at the time, this guy named Hermann Dininger and he came to my office and he said, should we sign Kanye And I said yes, And then he brought in two other people and they fence sat and he said we can either sign him, we can let him keep killing us at Nike, or we can shoot him. And I was like, well, we're clearly not going to shoot him, so let me go sign him. And then he said, okay, go sign them or you're fired. And I said, all right, Herman, I understand what I get if I don't sign them, But what do I get if I do? Right, Because two years prior to that he said the same thing to me about Justin Bieber. I went and signed him and all it did was create more work for me, and the brand we put Justin on went from two undred and fifty million to a billion. So we knew that there was an opportunity to work with folks of that community that have controversy, but also an audience that's super locked in audience. And so Germany the team out there, Herman, that crew, there was no resistance to any of that. And truth be told, with the run DMC legacy, Adidas was the only brand that really had the legitimate.

00:15:39
Speaker 2: Sort of got it, they understood it.

00:15:42
Speaker 4: Yeah, so and all those guys were there. Then it's like it's a un company in Germany where you never leave. It's not like America. Yeah, yeah, my first Oh they opened the door. And so like that was the thing with culture. Like in two thousand and eight, I went to my boss and said, look, we're investing in all these athletes. We have two point two billion dollars and fixed assets against all these sports teams and whatever, and we're gonna lay out money on like nine different NBA draftees or NFL draft's, but we're not going to do the same thing in the cultural space. I called run DMC for an ad Eric Blam hung up the phone. He goes, let me call you back, call me back. Ten minutes later, he goes John no One from the brand's called me in twenty years, I had to make sure you really worked there. So anyway, fix that in two thousand and eight. Yeah, So, like the cultural thing was always like Adido's had a deep legacy in there and uh so fortunately run DMC was in the first ad we did for originals since they got out of the helicopter with the y vintage stuff in the eighties.

00:16:41
Speaker 1: What does what's the definition of culture for you? Because you've been entrenched in it.

00:16:47
Speaker 4: This the swirl of just rebellious attitude. I remember, like the thing that triggered me with hip hop, it got me to love it and wanted DJ as a kid was like just it sounded like all the influences in my life callide from punk to like R and B. You know, I was listening to you know, radio music, so at that time in the eighties, it was all these different things happening. And then run DMC came out and it was like rock meets punk meets like heavy metal all at once, you know, King of Rock. So I was immediately hooked. And you know, if you were to look at pictures of me from growing up, like you used to have a flat top, I mean you'd crack up. I thought I was. I thought I was like the fourth.

00:17:28
Speaker 1: DC or something. So yeah, funny. Yeah, Kanye mentioned he was unhappy and Nike. Did he mention the reason why because the easy ones and twos were unbelievably popular, successful for a lot of money. Yeah, was there a reason he pointed out that he wasn't happy.

00:17:44
Speaker 4: So the thing that was funny about him is that the first time he went there, according to the stories he's told me from memory, is that they kicked him off campus because they just wanted to put like lyrics inside of a shoe, and he commented negatively about the shoes, so they kicked him out. And then he was on some private out with Mark Parker, who ran the company, and started showing his designs, and that's how those Nike projects came out. The thing that frustrated him, though, I think was the fact that those at that point in time, there was no financial benefit to him and there was no equitable reciprocity for the effort and energy that he was giving them or cachet to his audience and culture. And so there was that, and then there was also sort of the sandbox aspect. So like the first Nike Easies, he did were based off of existing outsols, not to get into the sausage making, but it wasn't a totally new shoe for instance, like they would take the bottom of that Air Force one and put his shoe on top. But it was like I think an air raid from like one of the tennis shoes, if I'm not mistaken. So for us, we gave him the full sandbox. We gave him the full creative leeway. In fact, when I took him to the Germany office, he grabbed me and goes, it was right after this Way thing, And I took him in our materials library and he goes, see, these are the answers Sway does not have, and I would this is to that. So I always made sure people were riding next to me when you come to the office, because it was like we knew what we were doing was history in the making, every minute of it, and that's why we treated it so carefully. And it was like precious, you know, to us, and still is really like me and Jim and Rachel, we're all still in touch. I haven't spoken to Nick too much, but like that initial crew and the rest of the team from it on the Adida side obviously, and then on the Easy Crew you know, rest in peace Virgil for sure, and then like Jerry and Ivan. I mean I just saw Ivan the other night, and Don I've been texting with still recently. But you know, it's just all dope people.

00:19:41
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously Kanye the artists, incredible, Kanye the man, complicated, misunderstood. You've got to see kind of all aspects of him. What is some things that you don't mind sharing about his genius, his greatness him that we wouldn't get to see on the outside.

00:20:00
Speaker 4: I think everybody sees everything from that. No, I'm just kidding. There was a lot of things that happened that were like, for instance, you get to hear everything evolving over time on the music side while we were having discussions in the same room about sneaker stuff and the boards everywhere. And I always thought that, like you know, swirl of the energy to it was what made it so cool because it added to the overall Like I don't know if it's competitive nature, just like people just pushing each other further. So like you hear him going so hard on the music you want, like that dre Eminem remix of that album that he made with the Blue what was it the God album? That was the gospel album, Like we heard that in the car and Cody five thousand times, you know, I'm full blast. And then two years later he lets it go. Or I remember when we were listening to the Yandy album that never came out in Chicago, you know, and then that same album that came out when we were in Cody comes out and I remember one of the songs on the album and when the drums came out, he looked at me and he saw me like waiting for the drums that never came and he goes, yeah, we took those out, but like so you know what I mean. It was like we were so like sort of in those moments with him flying to the Bahamas after the hurricane with Rick Fox, crazy memory, just kind of to see the world over there because Rick Fox is like Elvis Presley over there, which I had no idea. Just the behind the scenes of MSG season three. That was another epic memory. And then you know, obviously like going to this house in January and unveiling what we're going to do from a marketing standpoint to help him support first season and seeing that thing go out with such power and then standing next to the president foot locker in our CMO and him turn to Adidas and say, this will never help my consumer And then he looked at me and I'm like, it's gonna work, man. So you know, even in that moment, people were doubting it. So it's just nice to always.

00:21:51
Speaker 3: This was the launch of Easy three.

00:21:54
Speaker 4: That was Easy season three. Yeah, that's where the three fifty v two came out, and that was the select He twenty four hours a night painting the boot that never came out, the Grail, the ten fifty Pablo listening session. So we gave out seats through our store. Tickets sold out all of MSG, and Kanye unveiled all the apparel for season three. Vanessa bee Croft died the show and it was lamar Odom's first day kind of back in the real world. He was there, it was his whole family. Was probably the happiest I ever saw Kanye man. It was like him and Dancie couldn't find the door to the venue. They were like running around the outside. Have you ever tried to get an MSG? You know what I'm talking about. It's like you can on the door. He was like almost late to his own listening session and like his pants weren't done.

00:22:50
Speaker 3: Expense.

00:22:56
Speaker 4: So yeah, absolutely, I mean ultimately we dropped. We did a single drop with one point four million pairs of one of the shoes in twenty September twenty first, twenty eighteen. I believe we had all those dancers on the covers of New York Times wearing the triple Why Easy did three hundred and fifty million twenty four hours two websites Adda's dot com, Backslash Easy, and easysupply dot Com. Yeah, so that was the ultimate goal. But you know, to get to that point in time and to sometimes you have to like pull back the spring to build that demand before or not. Sometimes if you want to do that business right, the point of that is to always have a little bit of unrecoided love that people have to keep chasing. I mean, even with one point four million pairs of that shoe going out that day, there are still people to this day that couldn't get that shoe, you know. And that was also the third time we restocked that dope, so it's pretty fun. Yeah, that was a year. So anyway, like lots of moments that are like business but also the personal side. Actually, the funnest thing was this was the funnest moment I had it easy. Rachel and I got to go to the Footwear News Awards with Arthur and Kanye and eighty eight Keys and his team. We got You with the Year. Kanye gave me this beautiful shout out after he just kind of like looked over his shoulder and I was like, oh, yeah, I got to do this real quick. And then we went to dinner with them, and then he's like, let's go to the studio. And we went to the studio and listened to the Pablo like beginnings of the album for the first time. It was just cool to see that, like, all in a twenty four hour period.

00:24:41
Speaker 2: I made an appearance on that album accidentally.

00:24:43
Speaker 4: How how some shit I had done? Oh okay, I didn't know that. I didn't mean to anybody. Yeah, back in the day, it was probably worth it.

00:24:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was cool.

00:24:57
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:24:58
Speaker 4: I didn't make any appearances on any of us. No, But for real, I think that, like there was just such a surreal twist to every single moment of that and you know, can't it'll It'll live sometime at some point in a movie somewhere.

00:25:10
Speaker 3: Absolutely a lot of people say Easy laid the groundwork for at a lot of brands aesthetic and style the same colorways and with the minimalist logo hits. What do you think about that?

00:25:22
Speaker 4: I think those people are pretty spot on. I think the color palette of the last twelve years and the brands that have taken that and run with it have all done exceptionally well. And the sort of nature of how he built a peril in the design language of what he did, for sure, and apparel has continued. I think it's sneakers though it's definitely like gone the other direction, like he kind of that that spring with sneakers is kind of like the trend of the rubber band and kind of snapped back past it to like sort of course stuff again. So you know, like getting accessible things are cool now versus getting the limited like futuristic crazy design that whole thing has. You kind of need people who can legitimize that authentically, and so now the brands are going a little safer, I think. But he disrupted the whole industry and uh oh yeah, and it needs it again. I mean I think that like right now, you know you're seeing a lot of sort of like switching of people and brands they're with and stuff. But that's just like more of the same. I think someone needs to like shake it up.

00:26:25
Speaker 1: Is there a person you think that's not in the mix right now? Do you think has that kind of star power and everything? Do you feel like to really disrupt this space right now?

00:26:36
Speaker 4: Definitely? But brands pay me for that. No, I'm just kidding. I'm not kidding, but I know I would say Playboy CARDI is like if he isn't already signed by someone, that's like I don't know who's asleep at the wheel on that really. I mean I know that like the dude has some stuff with under armor, might have something there or there, but like that he hasn't had a brand make a play with him.

00:27:00
Speaker 2: That that's not our like we're not in that space.

00:27:02
Speaker 4: He would have the kids like, Yeah, I mean I think so interesting.

00:27:07
Speaker 2: I think so I wouldn't let against you.

00:27:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't bet against She's just shocking to me, though, it's.

00:27:14
Speaker 4: Surprising to me that I think he's got that same thing that well whatever, I don't want to Yeah, yeah, I was in a brand right now and I wasn't making that happen, or I would also look at for Zerta. But anyway, because they you know, seeing like Payso go from Nike to Adidas and then it's like Adidas has bad Bunny working with them too. So I'm assuming Paso is going to work with a channel for them, or with a certain retailer or with a certain product. But other brands are seating that whole market to Adidas and it's a great demo for them too.

00:27:56
Speaker 5: There's a lot of it, like there's been a lot of people. Independent people aren't will to do this, like Kai. You know, how hard is it for an individual person in the shoe game to bring a shoe to market, Like I'm just gonna ring.

00:28:09
Speaker 4: It's the biggest pirit. That's That's the thing why most people start with soft goods sneakers with every half size, it's like you're pouring fifty thousand dollars worth of steal into a mold to get That's why you guys probably have dealt with like why isn't this in the size fourteen and up from the brands I played for or with, you know, And it's because those shoes cost exponentially more to make because they don't end up it's it's sausage making. Sorry I got a little too into that, but sneakers have the highest barrier of entry of any product class. It's it's definitely, I mean other than a car or something. That's it. It's difficult to uh, yeah, you have to have a few successes in a row for sure to keep it going. And mostly sneaker companies. I mean, that was the thing that Kanye was we had to help him understand, was that, like the sneaker companies don't own their own factories. They just work around the world and find production where they find the best, you know, people with the skill set for what needs to be made, and so you know, that's that's no different for any industry. So, like, those costs are somewhat fixed and unless you can serve them up great volume, you know, you will have a lot of costs. Yeah, it's like fifty K perhap size. So that's why like when Adidas would do like a fashion shoe or even I think maybe even with the seven to fifty when it came out, I can't recall we did full sizes only. So it's just like a cost efficiency thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, exactly. They're used to for they were usually four to fourteen. That's why like certain brands like air Force, they might go to twenty or a superstar might go to twenty that you're gonna be hard pressed to get like the shoes that you like a Travis you know, right right, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, because it's super costly for the even for a major to do that, so let alone an independent.

00:30:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's take it back to you to young Wicks. Yeah, I was in the league as well. Yeah, yes, got a chance to work with Kobe and Trason McGrady for Shure. I actually wore these nice in the Star Rookie All Star Games. Yes, ye, those were the All Star colors. How was it working with those guys? So I was the That was my first job at Adida. This is crazy. It's two thousand. Were you under Sonny?

00:30:34
Speaker 4: Sonny? My first order given to me from Jimmy Gaddo and uh, who else is running it? Jimmy was obviously Sonny is like dude, we were like in basketball, person and the whole team rivers. I was told to send twelve hundred jackets to Sonny's house, and then of course, like I was at the NCAAs and all that stuff because Sonny was like running ABCD ab CD jackets. So yeah, Sonny, for sure. We had a trophy that got handed around to the team for best member, called the Tut Tut Best So yeah, the fan is great, Thank those guys. Actually, uh so this shoe. I think we did like two thousand pairs of these for All Star, if I'm not mistaken. I was the guy who keyed these in, like literally created the samples, like shipped them to reps, like that was my job. I was the guy going on Saturday to be like, what was the unsold? How do we sell more of them? My first shoe before this, though, is actually called the Mad Handle, which was made of the same material that. Yeah, they re released it this year with like a big piece in the middle to make it more like bulbous to that whole trend that was going on. But yeah, the Mad Handle, And that was t Mac's first like unreleased signature or unsignature signature. But uh, Kobe was like eighteen league this or nineteen, and I remember we went and met with him for an apparel meeting and it was like on the hood of Rob Polinka's car ar because Polenka was his agent at the time and like it was in his garage. He didn't want to come to the office and Kobe was like trying to. He was telling us about the coast Guard like sharks, and so that's where this. I think this color was like something about a shark or something. I remember correct, but John Nakel would remember that way better than me. But yeah, this shoe special man. I still have the Sunshine one. The metal mesh one was my favorite, and I think Lawrence Norman gave me the red, white and blue ones to mail him for the All Star and then he gave a pair to Lebron. I think because Laura Mary or high school Lebron is that we were doing his high school too. I also do those pro models with like the patent leathers.

00:32:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, those that was my brief toe like the Age of Centers, A Gang of Ship too, your Family, your home boy and I missed.

00:32:53
Speaker 1: They gave me the spending on on the website too.

00:32:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had those of U C.

00:32:58
Speaker 3: L A.

00:32:58
Speaker 1: So we went from Reebok to UCLA. We had a chance to be a Jordan brand school, but then we became the biggest Adidas school in the country, I think our sophomore year, so we started getting all the Kobe's and all that kind of Yeah.

00:33:14
Speaker 4: I still have a huge ARKive of it, like Kobe and t mac like actually more Kobe stuff though, like photos of him at ABCD that he autographed, like hard photos. You know, it's like you can't money can't buy type level. It's crazy.

00:33:31
Speaker 2: What is it like working with though?

00:33:32
Speaker 1: I mean those guys were really young in the space, and obviously you know you're just getting your start in the space, like where where's the balance from what they want and being able to actually put something together.

00:33:41
Speaker 4: Well, the Kobe too, is a good case that I think that like, which you know, that was kind of like the end of the Kobe with Adida's relationship. So I'm not sure who won or who lost on that design part, because again, I was like the guy who was like running reports and making sure. I remember when I brought the Tracy McGrady for shoot to the to the I'm seeing they were like, oh my god, we actually have shoes for the person to wearing the ad. We've never had this before. Yeah, that one mm hmm. I forecasted that one. Yeah, we were Yeah, yeah, that was my favorite one.

00:34:10
Speaker 5: I got the other ones when I was with Kobe. I think the Kobby too is the lower top ones black white. They was black and white. So when he when you come in when the office, I was like, that was are dope. But he only had him in black and white, and I was like, bro, you got to get some purple some like you gotta get some Laker colors on those that I swear. Two weeks later, boom boom, the autumn yellow and purple ones came out. I said, I still have like six pair in the garage.

00:34:35
Speaker 4: I mean, I started wear testing Anita's with the Kobe ninety sevens. That's how I got in there. I was like playing basketball at the office with the design team, my buddy who designed for them, and I was wear testing the basketball shoes like Kobe's shoes, not that one that didn't come out yet, but yeah, I mean so.

00:34:51
Speaker 5: From wear testing to designing.

00:34:54
Speaker 4: Oh, I never designed. I was a product marketing guy. So I was like, here's what's influencing kids, Here's what they're wearing, here's the p is the shopping and then I'd sit with the design team and development team and they would concept products and we'd give feedback or whatnot. But the designer of that shoe, I think it was Boris Berdacon, I think did that. If I'm not mistaken.

00:35:14
Speaker 3: Can you give me a little a little story bond the Crazy Eights? You know anything about the Crazy Eights with them?

00:35:20
Speaker 4: Why it's called that? Yeah, I mean I do.

00:35:23
Speaker 3: I don't.

00:35:23
Speaker 4: I don't want to wear that story.

00:35:25
Speaker 3: Okay, I know why it's called.

00:35:28
Speaker 4: That, but it has to do with the with the breakup and just the you know the fact that it was such an iconic model for the for the brand and associated so heavily with Kobe, but then they broke up, and I believe it was a bit of trolling, but I'm not sure. And it's I gotta say, if you see what is happening right now with Steph, and you saw what was happening with Kobe, then during that breakup period, it's very identical. It's like different brand every other night. It's like so textbook like.

00:36:05
Speaker 1: Interesting you bring that up because we we've been kind of talking. Obviously this is just we shoot the ship as friends. But if you're in Steph's corner. What what what would your would you tell him to go to one of these Chinese brands and build something or would you jump on and and do the Nike like?

00:36:23
Speaker 2: What are those? What's the word? I'm looking for? Legacy brands type things? What if you were?

00:36:29
Speaker 1: I know you get paid for this kind of information, but.

00:36:35
Speaker 4: Out to him, I I think my opinion would go against the grain a little bit on this. I definitely don't think what I'm about to say would earn me any business from s C thirty brand, But I think there's a way they could well how did it say? Yeah, I think they could do a lot of different things with them what they're doing now, and I would love to help them.

00:37:03
Speaker 2: Man.

00:37:05
Speaker 1: Man, I was wondering because I mean we kind of felt like in this this can be us saying it and it doesn't have to come out of your mouth. But I mean to think that's with the right play and strategy, there's no reason to me Steph doesn't have a top two or three selling shoe of all time. The type of player he is, the career he's had, the like, the likeness, the safe, the safe, the safeness around who he is, and I feel like they kind of respectfully missed the ball with the under armour things they were doing.

00:37:32
Speaker 4: I'm not hating anything they've done. I'm just going forward. I think I could help them. No, I I would just say, Stony, we got you. If you want to tap in there, you heard hearing all seriousness, though, I think this stuff is obviously like everything he said, and he's legendary and should have a or could have a massive, self sustaining, future proof business that does not rely on him playing basketball. And I think that that is what if I was working with them, would be focused on. But as I said earlier, I am not working with them, so I don't know what they're focused on. But I think they could do great things. And honestly, like with his golf, his personality and his bad like just the everything of him and the Goat film, they just put out all that stuff. I mean, there's a myriad of things that you could do to bring more to that. But you know, we're fortunate enough that we have a lot like what I'm doing now, just to kind of throw that out. There is a lot of this sort of like brand consulting and building things for people, products, brands, launches, et cetera. And so I do work with a host of brands that we're not allowed to name and athletes that I don't think we're allowed to name. But we've worked on some stuff recently that just dropped this weekend, and we're very thrilled with all the partners that we've been able to work with us far from the music space, the sports space, and brand space, and we think that the sort of like foresight, we have anticipatory marketing. Plus, like a lot of the stuff I do isn't just like from the hip. We're actually listening to through the internet to see what people are asking for in order to build those things. So this weekend we had a host of collectibles that we launched with one of our partners that we were working with because we had been scouring the internet years ago and found that adults were searching for these things that made them feel more that sense of heritage and tradition, and so like collectibles were blowing up with adults trading cards, weighted stuffed animals, vinyl toys, etc. And so that's like part of the consideration set for some of the things that we're doing with certain artists and then with other artists. It's that traditional merch stuff. We are doing that now, and yeah, it's been fun for the last year.

00:39:50
Speaker 3: Is it any surprise that Kobe shoes and his line remains still at the top of basketball. Yeah.

00:39:56
Speaker 4: I think. You know, when you walk the talk, you know, people respond to that. And he walked the talk like I think that if Kobe, I mean, rest in peace. Obviously, if Kobe were here right now, if Kobe were coming up right now, it would be really interesting too, Like I would love to see a guy with his like vision for on court and for off court and his sort of like interests as a person with the Internet today, I mean, and if he had been like one of the younger players coming up, I would have been curious how he'd be able to like maintain the focus he has, you know, because there's so much more distraction.

00:40:36
Speaker 3: But he Uh.

00:40:38
Speaker 4: I think that, like, you know, everyone with the Kobe to the garbage everything like that thing is in our DNA. Yeah, exactly.

00:40:49
Speaker 2: How did the partnership with Pharrell come about?

00:40:54
Speaker 4: Pharrell, we were working with Nego. Nego told Farrell we were treating him really nice. I got invited to a room at the Jaine Hotel with him. We talked it out. I said, why do you want to work with Adidas? He said, I'm hearing you guys are really cool to work with. I love Adidas. I said, I know you don't love Adidas, fell because I've seen you give away every pair of shoes I sent you for the last eight years. And he cracked up and he's like, come on, man, I love Adidas. I'm like, come on, man, I've seen you give them away Push everybody you've been given them to, and I send stuff to Push already, so I know you're giving him And so he cracked up and then we uh, but he was like, non, I love Adidas, and we talked it out and then he was super cool obviously and super creative. And actually we signed that deal well after we signed Kanye's deal, but we launched his products well before. Oh, so it was like he was moving in his cohort with Nego as he still operates today, and Adidas, fortunately through the Tokyo office, established a great relationship with Nego. And then actually Paul Middleman I forgot that, came to work with us in Germany and he had a great relationship with EGO and already knew Ferrell as well. So yeah, Paul played a center.

00:42:00
Speaker 2: What's that? I mean?

00:42:00
Speaker 1: He again, outside looking in, he looks like a super creative, a non aging human. His his touch on culture and music has been incredible. So is it similar? Obviously different than Kanye, but as far as just the creativity and vision similar, I.

00:42:15
Speaker 4: Would say that it's funny like Pharrell's business savvy and his understanding of humanity and just way trends operate and and and all that and Kanye they're very analogous for sure, but obviously just being independent and individuals as they are, they're just totally different and how they how they move and talk and stuff like that, but prolific and every which way. We we didn't get as much exposure with Farrell's music side as we did on the Kanye side. It's like most of the air meetings with him were design session meetings, and where I you know, obviously, like I said, I'm not a designer. I would sit in the room while Rachel and Nick and the team or whoever was working with him at the time would kind of present stuff to him, and he would reach out to me if things were frustrating him or if he felt like he wasn't being heard or and we would go, just stay in constant contact through those types of things. Just make sure everything's running smoothly in boilth directions, which is really my thing. Was just like communicating to make sure everyone's like hearing everyone's point of view.

00:43:17
Speaker 1: It's important the nmds. Then the Ultra Boos era talked to us about that.

00:43:25
Speaker 4: Well, that was Adidas heyday. I think right now they're having a similar run with like what's happened with Super Bowl and just the overall aura of what they've been able to accomplish. But twenty sixteen when those shoes hit was a special moment, and it was like the beginning of Adida's market share, not just mind share because it was signing Kanye, we were already like talked about a lot, people were starting to think about Adidas. But the growth, you know, from those stock prices earlier that film pulled up, like that really hit from those products because those were widely accessible. So that was how we kind of commercialized Boos you know, going back to that first call foot Locker when I told him Yeezy he was coming in two weeks. I listened for forty five minutes while the foot locker management from all over the world said, we never want to see another box cover with the word Boost on it. We have enough inventory to last us two years. And I'm hearing that the whole time, being like, shit, we have Boost in our shoe. And then I get on and I'm like, hey, guys, what's up? And you know, everyone at full Locker came up through the store, and so we've all been showing shoes to these guys for ten years and they've been chucking them at us when they don't like us. It's a whole other story. But now they're in senior manager's like, wax, what's up. And I'm like, all right, here's a plant for Kanye. We're doing these special pop ups at your stores. He's going to come out from behind the curtain with the confirmed app when people win and the shoe says seven to fifty Boost, and they're like, oh my god, this is going to be like when Lebron wore that one shoe. I can't remember. It was like a Nike running shoe, Roachie like Roaschie's were sitting Lebron wore it, and then Roachi became the shoe this will help boost sell. So when I think of Ultra Boost and I think of that phone call, because there was two years worth of Energy Boost inventory sitting on a shelf when those launched, and had the seven to fifty not come out, what five thousand pairs we dropped maybe and we had twelve of them those shoes, Yeah, and then those shoes never would have been allowed in. So it's kind of like this weird ricochet that Easy had on that stuff that I draw a connection to, and that the guys who worked and running at the time that I worked close to that also drew the connection to. Because I don't know if you remember when he went to that Bulls game performed at halftime in those Boosts, he like just called me on the way. He's like, yeah, I'm going to perform, and at halftime and he did a thing and he wore this shoe called Solar Boost. You could see a picture of him. He's wearing like a Jeff Hamilton jacket and he's got him on the floor. And that next Monday, there was a line of people outside of foot locker for a shoe that had been sitting for four and a half weeks with dust to get that shoe. So it was like just and that's when it was like, Okay, this is a different thing. Then my cousin ran Nike's website. He was actual pretty up over there, and uh, I remember when we signed Kanye. He goes, oh, you have no idea, Like, you have no idea, what's going to happen to your website? You're going to crash your website. And I was like, ah, sick, I can't wait. And then the second that happened, it was like not sick at all. It was really bad, and I learned that that is not something you want to have happened as a marketing guy.

00:46:19
Speaker 3: Good but bad, good, good but bad.

00:46:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but yeah it was.

00:46:22
Speaker 3: It was.

00:46:23
Speaker 4: It was a time. But yeah, this like NMD and Ultra Boost to me, were like if you were to look at a demand bubble as data for easy at Nike because they only sold three thousand pairs of the shoe they made, and then you were to look at that demand bubble ad Adidas after our seven to fifty, and then you were to look at that demand bubble on the Ultra Boost in the NMD, you would see a clear path of that trend. So you know, those things didn't happen in the vacuum. They happened as a result of lots of hard work and even some thankful that Nike didn't release them in broader fashion. I remember calling him the day the Red Octobers came out, because it was actually this weekend, twenty what thirteen fourteen, and I had him under contract already, and I was like, dude, can they do this? And he was like, who cares? If they sell out, it's great marketing for us, and if they don't, fuck them. I was like, all right, cool, but like I was spasing for a second, I was like, so yeah.

00:47:25
Speaker 2: Working with Push.

00:47:27
Speaker 4: The best Push, It's the greatest guy, just quality human, so selective this is with his words, and you know, wish I wish those guys, Like I mean, that album and the run they were on just now, like all that was all that energy and effort they've been building for ten years again and love seeing him back with his brother, you know, having lost my brother two years ago and knowing that that first song on the album about losing their parents, and I also lost my father in the last couple of years, so it was just like, you know, I texted him and was like, Bro, that album just like meant so much to me. You don't even know. And I just recently got reconnected with him, by the way, I don't mean to be like A texted him that's sounded really corny, but yeah, so it was great. And I love Push and and and yeah, I love everything that he stands for, honest individual, always stream me right. Work with Push since twenty twelve, it's working with him a minute for quite a while.

00:48:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've really caught eye on the creativity because when I came up, I remember shoe commercials were everything with the athlete, and I really liked what Anthony Edwards has been able to do with his shoe and the campaigns around that.

00:48:39
Speaker 2: What do you what have been your thoughts with that?

00:48:41
Speaker 4: I love the energy too, and I think it's cool, like the it's funny to see you can almost see like who's in management at the time, Like based on the boundaries they're willing to push into you too on these commercials. Yeah, it's great, it's great. They're being very contemporary and in the moment, and you know, whereas like that's the thing. I like how they're leaning into that heavily. Whereas with the stuff. Stuff I wouldn't you know, lean into like swapping brands out every second, you know, like that kind of stuff. I think that muddies your waters. I think that's great to like go harden the paint and have a very defined position, like what they're doing with the ant and like even the ant farm they built out here. I thought that was really well concepted. I don't know if you had a chance to check that out. They had an activation with the team at Adidas and he was down there and it looked cool. It looked like, you know, it was really dope.

00:49:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:49:30
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like they match. They match his intensity, his energy and who he is and how win of late, it seems that Nike's been struggling. People haven't really been able to innovate as much as we've seen in the past. What's kind of your thought on their state and where do you feel like they've lost ground at.

00:49:48
Speaker 4: I think I have a Nike for the last two years they went through there. You know, the sneaker industry is tough to turn on a nine it's eighteen month product cycle, So decisions made that are coming out now are from whatever they could jam in too. Fill a gap for whatever they were lacking to that decision they made in year twenty four. So Nike's an aircraft carrier. They're not a speedboat, you know what I mean. They can't just like turn the corner on a dime. But I actually think what they just pulled off here it reminded me somewhat of Complex Con in twenty sixteen when they did the V loans every day and they were even those out and they had shoot Broccoli, you know that track Broccoli. They had him in there doing the mcene. I can't remember his name, the guy that Drake took the Broccoli song from.

00:50:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, you know you're talking about Yeah Yeah.

00:50:41
Speaker 4: They had him doing the m scene. But they had those V loans there, and we had a Pharrell set up, but Kanye had been sick and so we didn't have like product, you know, because we didn't have him approved stuff while he was coming out of the hospital after that event in twenty sixteen, so we didn't have product for right then. And uh, they kind of brought energy to that moment and I kind of feel like what foot Locker and the brands are doing here and all the people who activated League Luka Donci et cetera did amazing things. But I kind of feel like Nike had had a nice brand Jordan too. They had a nice weekend, and I, you know, not to say that, like, you know, basketball's game of momentum. Like I feel like they kind of did some nice stuff here and and if they continue to play to the new era, then they can perform. I think what has happened is there's maybe I don't want to I don't want to get any trouble. I obviously don't I respect what everyone is doing, but I think there's just like the game has changed, and you can't launch a brand and just stick a bunch of money on it now and think that product will sell. You have to actually develop a community and then start offering that community access points that include product but also experiences. And I think Nike, better than anyone has the has the infrastructure for that, so they're set up for success.

00:52:10
Speaker 1: So you're saying authenticity now is more important, you feel than it's ever been.

00:52:15
Speaker 4: Community access and authenticity absolutely because kids are so savvy now with all the tools available, and they know the followers are fake, and like, also, you know, there's no way to grow your audience anymore because the algorithm will just cap you. So the only thing that people really share is stuff that is authentically cool to them. So it's, uh, yeah, I think that that's like step one. But yeah, ten years ago, you could drop a brand like here's the product, here's TV it will sell. Now it's interesting.

00:52:44
Speaker 3: What do you can say your biggest failure for your creat and your creative life.

00:52:49
Speaker 4: I think trying to man So I think that in the last four years, instead of taking the right time to more family members who were passing, I tried to manage too much at once. I was always one of those God, I'll never give me something I can't handletize, and it was something I couldn't handle, and so I think that I should have just been mad enough to accept I couldn't handle it, instead of trying to like tough my way through my dad dying and just power into my brother's situation and not you know, appropriately respect the time. I don't know if that's really my creative life or just my life, but at a certain point they kind of intertwine anyway. But I'd say about a year ago, my head kind of cleared and I was able to, you know, after taking time because you know, you got to give yourself. If you don't take care of yourself, no one else will kind of thing right, And so I think that, you know, obviously, and then also with whatever happened to Kanye recently, like it's obviously super unfortunate to break up with Adidas and having sacrificed so much of my life, my kids time, like spending time with my family to build that thing, you know, moving to Cody, or being on the road for thirty days a month and missing every weekend for a long time, and you know, you look back at that and you're like, man, I wish that it stayed intact because that should have lived forever. But yeah, I think that, you know, those are my only real like feelings. I think that every failure is and learning and every missed up is just another chance to kind of get up to us yourself off and keep going.

00:54:28
Speaker 3: You know, I'm failing too because I've I've had a lot of loss to it and I'm still dealing with it the same way. Yeah, I haven't found another way to deal with It's only one way.

00:54:39
Speaker 4: There's amazing situation.

00:54:41
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like most of the time we lost because we've all had it. We try to fill our plate with more to do to take our mind off the loss, instead of taking the proper time to digest it, understand it, more in it, talk about it.

00:54:54
Speaker 2: I think that's something we all do.

00:54:55
Speaker 3: Get you.

00:54:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, heavy, totally, absolutely condolences by the way.

00:54:59
Speaker 3: I appreciate your loss.

00:55:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it's crazy. Actually, when we were putting some product together, one of the vendors sent the burnished image of my brother to us, and it fell into my hands when we were talking about him. So I was like, oh, meant to be He's right here.

00:55:16
Speaker 3: There you go.

00:55:17
Speaker 4: But like, yeah, the uh, the l's are just wins. I was at Converse actually for two years from two thousand and four to two thousand and six. After Night You bought them and they sent me out there and I was running life Style marketing for them, and we had the Dwayne Wade for shoot and that was when we did this Knockdown seven times stand up eight that. Yeah, it's fun and the was it flash stuff too, Yeah, the Knockdown seven stand up. But I've always believed in that just got to get up. This is the people who keep going that end up in those spots like everyone just gives up on themselves. Listen to that voice in their head says you can't do it, You're not good enough. That's all. That's just seeds a doubt. You shouldn't ever self doubt yourself.

00:56:00
Speaker 3: You know. What's something every creative goes through that they never talk about.

00:56:06
Speaker 4: Fear, fear of release, not you know, the world having its opinion on your point of view. And that's why a lot of these artists, like it's very difficult to get them to approve a final product because once you put it out in the world, it's out there. And that's also why Virgil was so special, because he was also one of those people who's like, I actually am cool with this going out there to get the opinions, even if it's slightly unfinished or intentionally slightly unfinished, to give the final person that chance to put their peace on it. You know. But I think fear goes through a lot of people, like especially the hire these people ascending status of creativity. They have to be teflon, you know. You hear these stories of like terabytes of albums on hard drives that will never be released by the biggest of the artists. And you know, I mean, I'm sure Cowboy Carter was from a year ago and she was just waiting, you know, because obviously there's a place in time factor too, so it's like you got Cowboy Carter, Okay, this is the time, and then it's like the biggest thing in the world, you know. But I you know, I think that leave By song was there when we worked with her.

00:57:19
Speaker 1: Pretty sure, question real quick, We haven't didn't. We haven't really got a chance to discuss them. But talk to us a little bit about Virgil and what he was like in your.

00:57:28
Speaker 4: So I respect Virgil is the close guy for sure. I didn't. I was not as close to the Donda guys as the so Justin Saunders, Virgil, all the team for the Donda crew. I got to know them better through the partnership. But you know, I'm from the Chicago suburbs. Virgils from the Rockford or whatever, and like Jerry was promoting shows in Chicago, like I'd known who all those dudes were, and obviously Ivan was in there. But I would get on a Donde call here there, and it was sort of like the discussions were related to our business, and then I wasn't really adding any value. But Virgie would speak a lot on those calls. He was just like an uber creative guy, and he was there to encourage others to like share their opinions. And then when he would come to the office, I would just check in with him to make sure I was reading the room right and hearing what I was supposed to be hearing, because he was the best at sort of. I remember I called him so Kanye called me two weeks before season one, and that was supposed to be New York, and you know, New York, twenty fifteen February, it's negative thirty degrees and he says to me, forget the show. We've been planning for a month and a half. I want to tear it all up. I want to build a roller coaster five stories high, and it's gonna be me and my friends and we're gonna ride around. It's gonna be me, Virgil in the front. We're gonna wear all the clothes we have, all the models in the roller coaster. And instead of like getting into a discussion with him, I was like, all right, cool, let me go talk to the team. And I hung up the phone and I just called Virgil and I was like, is this like his creative process, Like what's going on? He goes, yeah, I just let him work through it. So it's always like the guy that I'll just kind of check in with to be like how volatile? Is this really versatile? Like creative? Like where is this on that bracketing? And uh, it was all good. Like an hour later we're back doing the show and it came out so great roller coaster.

00:59:18
Speaker 5: What about his website because you know he has the website with every website, free game, everything is on there.

00:59:24
Speaker 4: Yes, they started Shopify.

00:59:26
Speaker 5: I remember it, well, is that a true Is that a creator's true test? Like at the highest level of creator? Like, fuck it, I'm gonna just give it all the way.

00:59:36
Speaker 4: So that that whole thing about building in public was like the secret sauce, you know, like easy Virgil all those guys. There was no marketing budget. So it's step eight at a Shopify. It is Wow, my memory is really good. So I was at Shopify when this happened. So anyway, the uh, at this moment in time, the whole way to create this was his way of creating community. He was building public. He'd invite creatives into his house here's tools for you to use. Here's here's what I did. Go take it further, you know, and so going to it again. This was his community and how they people still refer to this. High school kids still use this business professionals still to this day because those are the codes. And like for him, this was a profuse thank you from me for saying Shopify there at the time. And yeah, I was definitely trying to build some special things with him, and when he obviously got sick, it was terrible. And I remember calling Kanye to be like is this real because we were like mid stream at that point in time after leaving Adidas, I was now at Shopify and we were launching easy gap stuff form. I was doing that for him then and Virgil I didn't even know he was sick, and he was like in our meetings or in calls with me, not Kanye. So obviously all his real close friends didn't know them, That's what I mean. Like I knew Virgil, but I wasn't like nucleus with him, you know what I mean. But yeah, this thing like if you ever follow this right now, you know you can build you can build it. And uh, that was you know, easy at zero marketing too. The only marketing was people wearing the stuff that we gave it to and sharing these codes with people through that Like dog Whistle stuff. Virgil was just more overt. But yeah, I love the site. I forgot about it, but yeah I had death by paper cut at him for that mentioned a shopify. Yeah, it's all good.

01:01:34
Speaker 3: What is the secret to developing trust with your partners?

01:01:38
Speaker 4: I mean, I you know, I I think just telling the truth and also being willing to take the l for your word, you know what I mean. Like Kanye, I think that was the real trust factor with him, was like if I gave him my word even if it was going to cost me pain to execute it. I mean not physical ba, but like you know, going back internal and saying dates change, or going back internal and saying here's what we're doing now, and like no disrespect intended whatsoever. All these brands are the same. They're all set up as for lack of a better term, their factories can make what they make. They're cookie cutters, and you know, you bring these creative people in their milkshakes, they don't work that way. So it's like you have to be able to take those same infrastructural pieces and sort of set them up in a different order to satisfy the thing coming in. And so that takes just a bit of like Kanye used to say, Man, I know you're getting killed internally for me, thank you, you know, like that kind of stuff, because it was a lot of like asking for more. Like the beginning was sort of like energetic, right, we didn't know what we had. It was exciting, everything was working, it was great. We couldn't go wrong. But then it like turned after season three where he was almost larger than the world pr wise, like forget a deal, he was bigger than Reik, he was all of them combined, and then it was like a different level of pressure to do more biz, you know what I mean. And that was where that really pair of thing really got going. So but yeah, just you know, maybe sacrificing my own ego. Kanye has said, you know, going back to the first thing you asked me, your superpower is that you know how to be loud in a room and you know how to be small in a room. And so when you speak, people listen because they know you're being selective with what your offering. You're not just john about stuff that you know nothing about. And the other thing that he also said was I was the adult in the room. So it's a funny story. Instance. This is somewhat is adjacent to like what we're talking about. We're out in Aspen and we're watching NBA game and it was one of the ball Brothers was his rookie year and he just had it. He was like playing and I think he was on the Bulls and everyone on Kanye's team was this, and now he was playing, And then it got to me and I was like, didn't you just have a triple double last week? He was like the youngest player in the league to ever have one. And he's like, That's what I love about you, dude. You're always the adult in the room, Like you only speak with the facts, Like these dudes are like, look at all he moves and stuff like that. So it's like kind of just reason and being straight up and you being who you are, Yeah, just being comfortable with yourself and just everything flows and you're being honest right, like you don't have to make shit up.

01:04:10
Speaker 3: Is ego necessary for greatness?

01:04:12
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you have to almost be willing to create a reality distortion field around yourself and believe in what you're doing so fully that no matter how many people tell you it will not work, you have to keep going. And I don't know how you do that. Maybe it's not ego as much as passion, but I think there's a bit of both there, because when everyone's telling you you're wrong and you're the only one in the room saying you're right, you know you gotta believe in yourself.

01:04:45
Speaker 3: The next two questions I brought to you by stock X, your trusted source for the most covered drops, top five basketball sniggas all the time, And you're a good question.

01:04:54
Speaker 4: You guys want me to answer that? Wow, this one I would have loved up front. He's joking. Top five basketball sneakers all time. I gotta go with uh Kobe one, t mac one, just because I worked on him.

01:05:09
Speaker 2: It's your list.

01:05:11
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go with the Kobe protro, and then I'm gonna go with the d Wade one because I also was over there. Then I don't know the Jordan one, Jordan three, Jordan two. I can't take it. I can't two three one one of the first three Jordan's Dwayne Warren, Dwayn, Lawrence yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And Eric Miller, yep, for sure. Dwayne is uh. I think he just retired from the game. Really, Yeah, he's been over in China. He's like rapping and stuff. He's the man. Yeah, he's a sweetheart. I used to bring him Chinese food and maybe working late me.

01:05:45
Speaker 3: And my wife.

01:05:46
Speaker 4: For sure, I stayed in touch with those guys. Eric Miller is back in Portland, I think too. Yeah they're the best. But yeah, I basketball sneakers are so tough because, like my god just wants to say, Chuck Taylor pro leather like the Air Force one, you know, like the stuff I grew up with. But they've evolved so much and like that Kobe protro to this day. You know, it's like, so it's tough. It's tough to say. There's so much competition there. Oh what am I saying? Aunt, I should have shout it out of dita this too. Jesus, all those guys are gonna fucking stop being my friends now, Oh God, do.

01:06:21
Speaker 3: You do you have a goat fashion designer?

01:06:24
Speaker 4: I just honestly that I like blanks. I like the stuff that we're doing. I like the simplest things fashion to me, is like it's almost like a decorative.

01:06:33
Speaker 3: Uh.

01:06:34
Speaker 4: You know that the way that fashion is supposed to work is that it's almost like it's called ready to wear for a reason. You almost can't wear it. It's like not you can't purchase it at the moment, it's not available, you have to wait whatever, it's super expensive. So I like things that are actually accessible, and so, you know, obviously the stuff we did for season one was my favorite thing that I was ever a part of. I think that that there's a lot of like young Up and co in brands right now and designers right now that are that are starting to do cool and amazing stuff. But for the life of me, I can't think of any of them. All Star weekends got me on fumes right now. No, it's really bad. And the problem is they're all going to fucking kill me. Oh Eta La. I would definitely say eu Ta is doing some really cool stuff. You showed me this crazy three D printed T shirt design that he's doing. Our company is test Lab. We are doing some amazing stuff as well. We are just building for others though, And yeah, I think that like right now, fashion is kind of like moving away from streetwear it's going back to that really formal fashion performance for performative like costume me stuff, And so I think that like hopefully Skate is going to start seeing that come back. I love that basketball shoes started to sell again. It feels like that that, like you know, that baggy jeans thing in that early nineties thing that's been going on for a while starting to turn too. So yeah, I think that a lot of young brands have an opportunity to disrupt stuff. It's just like, who's going to take the risk?

01:08:06
Speaker 3: What do you think about? This statement? Is not what you have on? Is who has it on?

01:08:10
Speaker 4: I would completely agree with that because the world is flat now. So it's like, if you have a lot of money, you can buy cool stuff and you can stunt like you're actually cool. But there's a lot of style too. I mean, like these sweats are like why three two thousand and four right, like, but people will come up to and be like, who can you style me? And it's just because I'm wearing some like ratty sweats from twelve years ago, but they're the most comfortable sweats I have, and people like I need those, you know. So it's like the uh, but if you look at them, you just think they're like golf wear, you know, for like rain you know what I mean. But it's like dudes that know this shit and know this shit, and even like Travis he's got a full deal with Nike, goes to a world cut or what was that f one thing in that y three Jackie, you know what I mean. It's like it isn't how you how you wear stuff and how you how you combine things and your personal attitude toward it, yep, Because like if you're wealthy, yeah, you can buy all those fresh.

01:09:07
Speaker 2: Things, but it'll still be corny, corny way yeah.

01:09:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, facts, I know a lot of them. One piece of advice you can give a young creative trying to break through.

01:09:18
Speaker 4: No self down talk, trust yourself, keep going even when everyone tells you you can't, and be willing to take a few losses in order to find the right path, because a loss is just a turning point. It's not that dead end. I mean, my first hip hop show I promoted, I lost thirteen thousand dollars trib call quest or No Sorry. It was cypercal Funk, Dubious and the labeled through an artist because they're ripped my head off, you know what I mean. We sold out the place and lost everything. The second show we did trib Call Quest that sold sold Some Mischief in nineteen ninety three, sold out the place. My partner bought a Harley Davidson afterward, you know what I mean, because we got the equation, But like you got to learn and like when you're trying Oh that's the other thing. When you're trying something new, you are always going to be the dumbest person in the room. So be willing to listen to the others in the room while you're in it, and soak up all that information and get exposure to it so that you can actually do the thing that you've read about on the internet, because reading about something on the internet does not create expertise.

01:10:24
Speaker 3: One album you can listen to on repeat besides Super Solid.

01:10:30
Speaker 4: I what if I've been listening to and repeat lately? I think I've been going on like Wu Tang thirty six Chambers lately, Sampa, I've been listening to a lot of I just listened to Vsop on repeat a lot lately. I don't know why that song has just been like in my head a lot. I can't remember the name of the artist right now for some reason. It's tip of my tongue. But yeah, I've just been going through a lot of nineties hip hop recently. And then I've had that New Dell album on repeat, and the Clips album on repeat NonStop, and obviously also the Freddy Gibbs most recent on repeat, Freddy Gibbs and and actually Dela and all those guys. I mean ship every single one of those albums. I love all those guys. When I was at Adidas, we're supporting Freddy Gibbs football team and Gary, we were sending them all the stuff. That's why you always were the stuff on the on the album covers. Yeah, but those are the albums. I'm just like, it depends on the mood.

01:11:28
Speaker 3: If you could see one guest on our show, who would it be? But you have to help us get your answer on the show.

01:11:34
Speaker 4: If I could see one guest on the show, who would it be?

01:11:36
Speaker 1: But you got to help us. It's got to be in your roller decks. I know that's the hell of a roller desck.

01:11:40
Speaker 4: You said, no, Yes, I would love to see have you got you guys having that push on the show right? Well, would be sick also, I mean obviously, I mean you guys had snoops, so whatever. Yeah, he's the best. He's obviously the coolest in the room. But like Push, just the way he is so thoughtful and the way that he really shares information, and he's got so many stories. I mean, that whole thing with the Drake thing with the Vidas and how that went down, and you know, like his beef with Drake at that time and that which you just had nothing to do with the time save for the record. Yeah, I think Push would be the man.

01:12:22
Speaker 1: Well, John, thank you for your time and obviously your contribution to culture.

01:12:26
Speaker 4: Appreciate it and.

01:12:27
Speaker 1: Always kind of be into behind the scenes guy obviously, you know, being willing to do a little you know, collapse capsule with us for All Star. Hopefully that's just the beginning of our partnership. Hopefully after this interview, we'll see you in Steph Curry's corner.

01:12:43
Speaker 4: Get any close.

01:12:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, from our mouth to Guy's ears, we're.

01:12:47
Speaker 4: Here to help everyone, to be honest, it's not just stuff. We're agnostic.

01:12:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, and shout out to the shout out to the team that's in here that it helps you helps you all your greatness. We appreciate you guys too, Man, but again, thank you for your time. Hope you enjoyed All Star and thanks for stopping by.

01:12:59
Speaker 2: Man.

01:12:59
Speaker 4: I can't appreci siate you guys in a huge fan of show and thank you for this opportunity.

01:13:03
Speaker 2: To appreciate so Wexler.

01:13:05
Speaker 3: Thanks. Thanks.

01:13:10
Speaker 1: You can catch this on All the Smoke YouTube and the Draft Kings Network.

01:13:15
Speaker 2: That's a wrap on All Star. Let's go uh, Let's go Medicaid