Don't Log That! FAA Time-Building Mistakes and How to Avoid Them

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listening to the VSL

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Aviation Podcast I'm your host Seth Lake Thanks for being here

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If you're joining us on YouTube or Twitch.

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Welcome we are live streaming this This is primarily on discord though We've got a great discord

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community, and you can join us live for this, each week.

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And I I do some prerecorded shows and do some live shows So if you wanna hop on here and ask

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your questions you can do that If you're joining us on YouTube you can just type your questions

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out and I'll introduce John here in a moment He'll jump on and

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read those questions out to me So we'll be able to answer him when the time comes.

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So this is our weekly installment of the VSL show And so I'm basically a designated pilot

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examiner and a flight instructor So if you have any general aviation or even commercial aviation

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questions you can send them my way I'm here to basically help you… learn the regulations better

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prepare for check rides, and just be more confident when you're going in and acting as piloting

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command of that airplane that you're learning how to fly So we really appreciate you joining us here.

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So this week, I'm gonna cover a few topics and then open it up for questions You're gonna try

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to keep it right at an hour this time We'll see how well I do on that but we're gonna get

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started with our first topic…And that's networking with the FAASTeam And it's really just

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gonna be a primer for you to learn about the FAASTeam and how you can get involved with that.

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So what the FAASTeam is I'm gonna pull the website up here If you're listening to the podcast I

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try to do… my best to make sure that I

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explain everything so you can follow along in the the audio format.

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but I am going to use the FA a safety team website So if you're joining us on YouTube you'll be

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able to follow along on that So you define that just search the VSL Aviation channel on YouTube

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and then that YouTube channel will pop up So I can subscribe that.

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Alright So here is the FAA safety team's website Now the first thing I'd like to get out of the

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way is the website is not that great and we all understand that

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We being the volunteers that work on the FAA safety team.

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So I'll just get that out of the way It's not a great website We've tried

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to make things as…as better as possible.

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but at the end of the day it is a little bit difficult to work with

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but don't let that stop you because it's still a really good program.

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So what the FAASTeam is is it's a group of volunteers and there are also some full time FA

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employees that help manage the program but primarily it's staffed by volunteers like myself.

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And we do a few different things In fact you can go over here to activities courses seminars and

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webinars Those are really the meat and potatoes what the FAASTeam does.

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So we either conduct courses or seminars and webinars Those are live events In fact I just did

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one last night at the North little Rock Airport where we talked about foreflight for about an

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hour and a half and answered some questions there We had dinner there's about fifty people there So it's a good turnout.

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And we do that every month and that's something that we do in the state of Arkansas.

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So that would be a seminar. Webinars, we'll just navigate to the webinars right now.

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It pulls up a map of the United States… and we can search for, show only

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webinars we're gonna select that option When you click on webinars you'll select show only webinars.

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And then just to search because webinars aren't limited to a state Right

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You can take those anywhere you're at And a lot of these are conducted on Zoom.

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I'm looking to try to conduct some actually on Discord I think Discord

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would be a really cool… platform to do…webinars on.

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But we can see right in here immediately we've got three eleven twenty five which is today So

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March eleventh twenty twenty five at seven o'clock eastern There's a risk based flight review.

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and we could scroll down here We've got tons of webinars and scrolling all the way down here I'm

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not counting all of these I'm guessing there's around fifty between now and April sixteenth It looks like.

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So those webinars are conducted by volunteers and they sit down after computer like I'm doing

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right now and they have a topic that's prepared…and they go through the slideshow.

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They usually open it up for some sort of questions towards the end kind of similar to this program.

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And then you'll get Wing's credit. So by attending this you get

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credit for that through Wing's credit We'll go over that in just a second.

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So that's an example of, what a webinar would look like Now let's say you wanna attend a live seminar.

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So a live seminar then you're gonna click on the state where you're located at.

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So let's assume that we're maybe in I don't know we'll do Indiana.

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So you're a pilot in Indiana, and you wanna meet other pilots in Indiana maybe you wanna kinda

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branch out from your flight school, meet some new instructors…whatever.

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it looks like I clicked on Indiana and sure enough on the fifteenth of March They have a risk

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based flight review and wings program, and this is at Zion Indiana and there's twelve seats remaining.

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Now it gives me the distance from, where I'm at as far as what my programmed zip code is in

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the FAASTeam website So to create an account here is free and it so it knows my zip code and so it's just calculating the distance there.

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So if I wanted to go to that I could I could click on that program and it's gonna pull up the

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program details including kind of the a brief description of what we're talking about who's

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conducting the seminar…and then, directions on how to get there and anything you need to do as far as RSVP.

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There might be details if there's dinner available if there's cost to that where you're gonna park stuff like that.

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So that's, that's what a seminar looks like a a wing seminar.

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Now, that Wing seminar more than likely I don't know this one for sure, but it looks like

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Dennis Miller He's a CFI in twenty twenty three

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National FAASTeam Representative of the Year So that's a National Award.

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so Dennis I don't I don't know him personally but you know I'm sure he's gonna put on a really good program.

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obviously a nationally recognized instructor like that.

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that's that's pretty cool to be able to sit down and meet them face to face and see what they

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have to say about In this case risk based flight review and the wings program.

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Alright So that's seminars and webinars. There's also courses and courses we're just gonna

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click on the available courses There's hundreds of courses available.

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Now in their most recent version version six point five of the Ace Guide I put in… some

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specific wings courses that I think are really good It's not to say that there's not a ton of

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wings courses that are in here that are really good You can find basically anything that you

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wanna find in in regards to general aviation on these courses.

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And some of these courses are just recorded webinars or recorded seminars.

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And we take those We put them in video format we upload them and then we put like a thirty or

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forty question, quiz with them So you take that quiz to verify that you did indeed watch…the

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material, and you get wings credit after that So that's the courses And then we have activities

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Now activities are things that you're going to do primarily in flight So you're you're gonna have flight activities.

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And the flight activities there's a a keyword that we can search here We can also just say we

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just wanna see wings activities at the basic level for flight one.

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So that's how we're gonna drill down here And again if you're listening we're just gonna go to

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the the main page the f a safety dot gov website click

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activities and then you'll see all these dialogues for wings.

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Basic and flight one That's what we wanna do. And we perform a search, and it's going to pull

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up all of the activities that get me credit for flight one.

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And as you can see there's tons of activities I say tons There's literally hundreds I am at at

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least dozens and dozens if not hundreds of activities that we can do here.

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So some of these activities include multiple credits.

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So for instance we have this Farmondale State College instructor training and standardization in

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a PA forty four dash one eighty So that's the title of this activity.

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That sounds like a pretty advanced course and it sounds like you need to be at Farmondale State

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College in order to do that So that's a great example of not all the activities in here that

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you're necessarily eligible to take, but some of the more more

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generic ones you could take just with you and an instructor.

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So we'll look at this one right here which is airplane single engine land takeoffs climbs and approaches.

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So that has an activity number It's a public activity so anyone can do this with a qualified instructor on board.

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And you can go out and take this activity and it counts for one credit towards your flight one.

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And you can kind of see here we're gonna look at our our wings grade here in a second but the

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the wings levels actually include three knowledge topics and three flight activities So you

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would need to complete all six of those combined activities to get credit for wings.

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Now to show you what my you know what a wings kind of logbook looks like When you go to the home

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page you're gonna click on my wings, and it'll pull up… my most recent phase of wings that I've done.

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And we're just gonna take a look at that So I'm on phase thirteen of wings for basic.

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And so there's my certificate of proficiency…saying that I accomplished it and then my

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certificate of a flight review and complete completing the wings This is kind of interesting as

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an instructor If you're using wings it's actually printing out the flight review sticker So it's

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doing some of the paperwork for you which I think is really valuable.

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The other thing as an instructor is if you do, fifteen activities, fifteen flight activities

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with at least five different…people, then that will count as a reinstatement event or not a

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reinstatement a renewal, or recent experience, I guess is the the most, proper

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verbiage that we're using right now as instructors is your recent experience fifteen activities with five different people.

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Alright. So that's that's kind of a real brief primer of what wings is.

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And what we're doing is we're using it to encourage proficiency in the general aviation pilot fleet.

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So how can you be involved in this as an instructor or just a pilot?

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So the way to actually do this is is all on the website here So if you go to the the main page

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the first thing you're gonna wanna do if you haven't already is you're

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going to want to create… a wings profile.

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So you're gonna have to create an account here essentially That's that's the first thing that you wanna do.

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Then the next thing that you wanna do is you wanna go to your FAASTeam directory.

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So your FAASTeam directory is gonna pull up that same… picture of the United States that we

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saw that map And we're gonna still go with that pilot in Indiana that's wanting to to use wings

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as a networking opportunity a way to volunteer give back to the community all that good stuff So we're gonna click on Indiana.

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And what this is going to do is it's gonna pull up… all of the FAASTeam representatives in the

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state of Indiana and it's gonna filter them by their responsibility.

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So the person that we want to talk to in order to get involved in the the wings program for this

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state would be one of the lead representatives.

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So we can see right here we've got a couple of lead representatives that are listed.

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And if we click on those individuals, it will pull up a

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picture of them as well as a phone number that you can call.

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I'll go back here because I don't know that you know this is public

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information but I don't know if they want it broadcast on YouTube necessarily.

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So we have looks like mister Craig Brown is a FAASTeam lead representative in the state of Indiana.

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And it shows some of his recent training experience that that you have so you wanna make sure

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that whoever you're calling has has done the training recently so you know that they're

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selective because this is a a website run by the government and it might be a little out of a date.

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But that's the first place that I would go to if I wanted to get involved in the wings program

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for a specific state So that's pretty straightforward.

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Now in and I'm not gonna give a tutorial right now but in this website is actually where you

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would go You would fill out the application to become a FAASTeam representative.

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And so let's talk about what a FAASTeam representative… is

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meant to do or kind of your roles and responsibilities.

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Really you're part of a safety management system, right A

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safety management system includes all these these different pillars.

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Maybe that'd be a good topic for another episode but…one of the pillars

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of really important one is safety messaging.

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So any safety management system is going to have messaging Basically

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, some form to tell people to be safe.

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And that means more than just saying Hey, you out there when you go fly be safe That means

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doing things like seminars and webinars where you talk about meaningful, either proficiency

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items or safety items like last night's seminar We talked about weather avoidance and how you

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can leverage foreflight to avoid weather I thought it was a really good topic.

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And I thought it was pretty appropriate going into the spring months where we tend to have more

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kind of active weather systems in the state of the the in our region anyway.

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So that's an example of okay I'm I'm a wings, a FAASTeam representative.

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I wanted to go out and spread… safety messaging to the fellow pilots And so that's how we do

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that is through the FA safety team So that's your primary responsibility.

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Is that safety…messaging and you're primarily going to do that through webinars and seminars

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Now when I put on a seminar there's a lot that goes into that Right?

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There's the basic venue planning right I need somebody to have a place to do it in tables and

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chairs and kind of the administrative stuff I need a audio visual system set up for a speaker

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and you know a mic and all that And I…either

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I need to bring that or I need to coordinate with another representative that's gonna help me with that.

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At our seminar we actually do a dinner as well So I actually work hand in hand with the local

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EAA chapter and they're the ones that cook the dinner and you pay for the dinner and

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that goes to help their organization in the EAA.

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And then we put on the safety program.

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And we invite people from all over the state to do different safety programs So it's not just me talking every month.

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In fact next month we have another examiner that's covering non towered operations And then in

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May we're we're having… the FA controllers from the local traycon come to give a presentation

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about kinda controller pilot… form or relations of what they're seeing as far as pilot

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deviations go and anything like that from the controller side So those are just some examples of

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what we're doing there So all that takes teamwork You need multiple people working different

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angles and so that's all run by the FAA safety team.

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one of the other responsibilities that you might have to do is airman counseling.

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So we have a a form on the FAA safety team website where

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we can go in and we can… conduct airman counseling.

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And so how that would look is if you went out and you had a bad day in aviation let's say you

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had some sort of pilot deviation, I would be assigned to you as a safety team representative.

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And I would maybe do a a ground lesson about runway incursion avoidance.

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we may even go out and do some sort of flight, and that would be some sort of you know the FA

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would label that as remedial training And then instead of a certificate act where we're actually

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coming in and or not we but the FA is coming in and suspending your certificate or something bad

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like that Instead what we're doing is we're trying to provide you with the remedial training

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needed to make sure that that doesn't happen again And I think that's a really good philosophy

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that the FAA embraced… over the past I'd say ten to fifteen years.

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Instead of enforcement actions they're wanting you to comply so let's bring the airman back into

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compliance instead of drop the hammer of enforcement.

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On that airman. So those are some responsibilities you'd be doing on the FAASTeam It's a great

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volunteer opportunity and if you're out there you know looking for an aviation job and you're

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wanting to you know I see people on Reddit talk about how they want to build a resume Right The

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, you know say Delta Airlines wants to see a lot of, extracurricular activity or volunteer

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community activity out there The wings program is is kind of a no brainer Right If you're a

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pilot especially a CFI, That's our great way to get involved with a volunteer organization

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where you're spreading, safety information you're helping conduct these safety seminars you're

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helping keep airman safe by kinda operating that FAA's safety management system So anyway, that

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was a topic I wanted to bring up because I think the wings program is really good and you should get involved in that.

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So… next and you know if you got any questions on that we can talk about that.

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In the question and answer time. So next next let's talk about I'm gonna jump ahead to the

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Reddit post that I saw So this Reddit post and pull this up… This Reddit post was about the

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title of it here is potentially hundreds of hours of invalid flight time.

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This sounds pretty scary because this pilot…basically saying Hey they have a friend and they

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worked at some sort of flying operation eventually moved on to the airlines And when they got to

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the airlines the airlines were doing a review of their logbook…and essentially discovered that

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A lot of the hours that the pilot had logged at his former operator

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were not valid hours because he logged a lot of SIC time.

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SIC hours can only be logged when a very specific set of circumstances are in place.

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So one of those would be you're in an aircraft that requires two pilots That's essentially the

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the main thing that needs to happen is you're in an aircraft that requires two pilots Well in

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this pilot's circumstances…or circumstance he was in a plane that only required one pilot it.

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Now that is not a deal breaker. Sometimes a part one thirty five operator specifically…can

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ask the FAA to have a basically a pilot development program in place.

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And this is a way for them to legitimately grow, pilot and command operators.

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Right They wanna take an SIC a young pilot with not very much experience allow them to log SIC

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time, kind of mentor them so they can eventually upgrade and move over to the left seat but

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they're doing it in a plane that only requires a single pilot.

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So a great example of of this and I think this might have been what the operator was flying…is

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a PC twelve So a PC twelve is a single pilot certified aircraft meaning that the manufacturer

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built it to be flown by one pilot So the FA says no you can't log…

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SIC time in a PC twelve in most cases because it only requires one pilot.

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So this operator apparently had had been telling all of its employees that hey you can go out

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and log SIC time because we've… gotten this

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program developed by the FA or approved by the FA.

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Of this mentorship program. And instead of doing the fact checking and getting the actual

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documentation, instead of doing the fact checking and making sure that that was indeed the case

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, the pilots just went ahead and started logging SIC time They put all this SITs…SIC time in

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their logbook then used it to qualify for a job, got to the

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job and that employer is the one that actually did the research and said okay.

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You're logging all this SIC time in a PC twelve.

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That means they we need to see this approved

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mentorship program for for the part one thirty five certificate holder.

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And the one thirty five certificate holder couldn't produce that And so now the the new employer

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is like well then we have to throw all of this SIC time out.

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So with that deducted from your training experience or flying experience you no longer qualify

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for this job so we're gonna retract that CJO that we just gave you So Obviously that's pretty devastating.

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Right You've worked really hard for years to get all this experience and then basically you

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can't use that experience It's it's not legal anymore.

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in I think last week's episode or maybe the episode before that, we talked about a part one

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thirty five operator that, you know was a legitimate one thirty five operator but could

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basically… make you participate in an illegal charter because they know that you don't know the

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regs very well and they may ask you to fly an airplane that isn't on the one thirty five

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certificate So you're working for a legitimate one thirty five operator and you're flying an

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aircraft that you were trained on but since that airplane was kinda sped through the process and

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the eyes weren't dotted The Ts weren't weren't crossed.

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That's not a legal charter anymore. And guess what If you get in some sort of accident or you

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get rampant and inspected then that's gonna be on you as the piloting command So this is just

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another example of how you as the pilot in command you can't take any of this stuff for granted.

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either that you have ignorant operators that just don't know the rules properly or you have

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operators that are willfully kind of trying to cut corners and just hoping that hey I've got a

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hungry pilot out there that's happy for the paycheck That's probably not gonna ask a bunch of questions so I can pull one over on them.

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I'm not saying that all operators are like that but I really want my commercial pilots, my CFIs

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that are listening to do your homework on your operator If they tell you something ask for the

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documentation all of this is highly regulated And so the moral of the story is when your

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operator tells you something, you need to see hey is that in the GOM Is that in the ops specs I

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want a signed piece of paper proving to me

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that this operation you're wanting me to do is actually legitimate.

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This is legal. And that's on you as the pilot in command because at the end of the day it's

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your logbook Right It's your certificate on the line So you need to make sure that you're doing

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your due diligence there So anyway I thought that it was a a good opportunity to to beat that

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drum again of, you know I'm not saying that there's just a rash of employers out there that are

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that are doing bad things, but there are a few out there and you need to keep your eye out for

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them Alright I'm gonna take a little break from talking real quick and… let John introduce

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himself john would you like to say hi to the folks… Hello everyone

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I am John I am a c f I out of Rhode Island.

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I'm helping out Seth with…his podcasts and his content that he creates And he's doing a great

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job So if you have any questions feel free to put him in the chat, and I'll read him out on the

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show for you… Thanks John we actually got to meet up last week I had an overnight up in the

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northeast, and we were able to the stars aligned And he was available I was available So we got

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to… Actually you know I don't know how many discorders actually do live meetups I feel like

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that doesn't happen that often We're all just virtual but it was it was good to see you John I

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appreciate, appreciate you making the time to meet up Of course Of course It was a great time… Alright.

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What's on the docket now… SDRs.

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Actually we'll wait SDRs last. We're gonna talk about airspace and why it's important.

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Okay The reason I wanted to pull up foreflight here and for those of y'all listening I'm I've

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just got foreflight pulled up mainly because we're gonna look at some airspace.

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And this came up in a recent DPE meeting. I've had a a few DPE meetings recently I had my

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National Recurrent and then I had our state recurrent training We and

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it's always an interesting time to get together with other examiners.

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because we do kind of operate a little bit in a vacuum We're not interacting with one another a

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lot I've got kind of a a a group of examiners that I'll bounce questions off of from time time

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but for the most part we're out there doing a checkride by ourselves And, the next day we're

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doing our other job We're more check rides and we don't get a lot of interaction So this once a

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year when we get together and we all can kinda talk and compare

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notes It's interesting to hear other people's take on this.

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And some of the other examiners… were stating that that they saw a common trend of people

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really not understanding airspace that well.

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And…they were they were basically thinking that this might be because people don't

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fundamentally understand why we have airspace, which I thought was kind of an interesting

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statement because I I think I've noticed that as well.

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Where when I start asking about airspace we've, you know the applicant has memorized the little

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pyramid from the King School or or something They they know all the the g the e, the

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BC, all that stuff You know they know all the air spaces And they've they've gotta kinda

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memorize it but remember you know thinking as an instructor, that wrote memorization of

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airspace That's like the lowest level of learning.

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We really wanna have that fundamental understanding…And I think in

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order to gain that you have to know well why is airspace important?

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Like why why do I care about that And I think that's a good question to ask as a CFI…for your

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private pilot student or your student pilot…somebody that's just learning how to fly.

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Use that law of primacy And when you're teaching airspace get into the the why behind that So

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let's talk about that for a second because I think it's kinda interesting.

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So I've got a map here pulled up I'm gonna turn off all my foreflight

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layers…So I get a nice clean screen Probably should have done that before.

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And we're gonna zoom in let's do Kansas I feel like Kansas is a good place.

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So here in Kansas, we're gonna pull up a sectional chart and I'm in… Northern Kansas and if

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you want to follow along here I'm at KPHG… So

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KPHG of Phillipsburg municipal.

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It's a little airport in northern Kansas. And by looking at the sectional, it's got the shaded

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magenta line and so I might ask an applicant What does that indicate And the correct answer is

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well that indicates that class echo goes a little bit closer to the surface in that shaded

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Magenta area than normal Right Normally it goes down to twelve hundred feet.

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And in a shaded Magenta area it goes down to seven hundred feet And so my next question might be well why?

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Why does it do that? And a lot of applicants will kind of scratch their head there They'll

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think of some reason… but very rarely rarely do I think they give the correct answer.

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And the correct answer is the whole reason we have airspace is to keep VFR traffic away from IVR traffic.

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That's kind of the whole point of our airspace.

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So that's the big overarching…reason there And so as a private pilot or a student pilot if I'm

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thinking about that that that means that the airspace is meant to

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keep me away from the people that are in the clouds Okay?

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So if I'm doing an approach into Phillipsburg municipal here, I know that even if the

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weather is is pretty low, there might be somebody

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in the pattern there Right I need to know that as an instrument pilot.

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And as a VFR pilot I need to know that okay if if I'm operating at Phillipsburg and the weather

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is let's say it's marginal VFR, and the ceiling's around three thousand feet and I'm up there doing pattern work.

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And I decide to cross the pattern at at five hundred feet above pattern out So now I'm fifteen

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hundred feet I'm only fifteen hundred feet below… the clouds there and this jet could be coming

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in and that's at a pretty high, descent rate.

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And, you know imagine the jet popping out of the clouds and seeing a plane right in front of

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them that would be a bad thing So I need to stay far enough away from the bottom of those clouds

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to avoid that So that's why we have cloud clearances right Cloud clearances are to make sure

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that when that ifr plane pops out of the clouds, they've got enough time to react to not hit

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the little VFR airplane that's not in the clouds.

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So that's why we wanna keep our distance away from clouds.

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So that whole, you know five hundred thousand two thousand, the visibility all that stuff that

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you memorized that's the why behind it So I think that's really important…to to understand there.

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Right But now let's think about it in terms of an IFR pilot So I'm an IFR pilot and I'm flying

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in to Phillipsburg municipal Now let's say I'm giving a a check right here.

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And I asked the applicant who's taken their IFR exam.

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the weather at Phillipsburg is five hundred foot overcast So you would have a red you know if

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you were looking at the metar board or the the surface condition there it would have a red

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little circle on it and you tap on the metar and you see that it's five hundred foot, broken.

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Layer and that the visibility is let's say it's six miles.

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So visibility is not bad but the ceilings obviously ifr So you have to

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file an ifr Not only that you have to have an alternate even.

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And so now you're doing an approach into this field that's five hundred foot overcast.

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I might ask you, could there be VFR traffic in the pattern legally?

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And of course everybody immediately thinks oh well you know not legally or they think, well

355
00:29:02,734 --> 00:29:07,184
there there could be but you know nobody in their right mind would be flying in five hundred

356
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foot overcast but that brings up the question and they have to kind of dig back in the cobwebs

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because they're private pilot or student pilot days of okay Well what airspace if there was an

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airplane that was legal what airspace would they be in Of course the correct answer is class g

359
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airspace because class g, the class e airspace here at

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Phillipsburg doesn't go to the surface It only goes to seven hundred feet.

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So there could be an airplane that's operating legally in class g because the cloud clearance

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requirements for class g are one mile clear clouds Right So as long as they're clear of the

363
00:29:38,704 --> 00:29:42,275
clouds and they've got one mile visibility and they do, they could be

364
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operating legally in the pattern at that airport.

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And so now we've got this problem Right We're doing an approach and we

366
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pop out of their approach and then all of a sudden we see traffic that's there.

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Now what kind of traffic would be operating there I think two really come to mind One of those

368
00:29:58,770 --> 00:30:04,567
would be an agricultural operation So if you had an Agsprayer, somebody that's out there doing

369
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or an ag applicator a crop duster a common name.

370
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so if you had an ag applicator that's out there flying, they might be flying in significantly

371
00:30:13,177 --> 00:30:17,357
lower ceilings than you or I fly at normally in this training environment.

372
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But they're seldom getting above fifty feet They're operating more like a helicopter.

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And that is the second type of operator that might be in the pattern there at Phillipsburg while

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we're doing our approach is there might be a helicopter that's

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operating legally in VFR conditions in class g airspace.

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And so we don't need to take that for granted Right We need to understand that hey even though

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the weather is is what we would consider poor, it's good

378
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enough for there to be VFR operations be happening at that field.

379
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Especially when you throw in a lot of bag operators and a lot of helicopter operators those are

380
00:30:50,215 --> 00:30:54,205
typically our users of the national airspace that are really

381
00:30:54,205 --> 00:30:58,587
taking advantage or spending a lot of time in class g airspace.

382
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So anytime, like kind of to bring this back to a actual point, is anytime you're out there

383
00:31:03,849 --> 00:31:07,849
flying and you're learning airspace, you wanna look at the airspace you're going to and you

384
00:31:07,849 --> 00:31:11,597
wanna see Hey is there class E to the surface?

385
00:31:11,597 --> 00:31:14,967
So let's find one that's class e to the surface.

386
00:31:14,967 --> 00:31:19,087
I'm gonna search around here The way we can tell… excuse me.

387
00:31:19,087 --> 00:31:25,077
The way we can tell there's class e to the surface is it has that dashed solid Magenta line

388
00:31:25,077 --> 00:31:28,247
instead of the shaded Magenta line.

389
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And so right here we've got Rinterfield in in

390
00:31:31,422 --> 00:31:35,954
Goodland, Kansas is class echo to the surface.

391
00:31:35,954 --> 00:31:42,405
And it's also not a perfect circle. It has a little bit of a a a circle with a little kind of

392
00:31:42,405 --> 00:31:48,704
it's a key shape you know and that key opens up to the to the southeast of the field.

393
00:31:48,704 --> 00:31:52,355
So what we can also assume here is that there's probably some sort of

394
00:31:52,355 --> 00:31:56,695
procedure…that comes in to from the southeast.

395
00:31:56,695 --> 00:32:00,675
Right And so we could pull up maybe this ILS and sure enough the

396
00:32:00,675 --> 00:32:04,865
ILS extends down that's to runway three zero.

397
00:32:04,865 --> 00:32:08,519
So it starts southeast of the field and goes to the northwest.

398
00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:12,059
So that key outlet we could overlay that on our map.

399
00:32:12,059 --> 00:32:19,037
So that key opens up and that that's what protects that IFR traffic from now class

400
00:32:19,037 --> 00:32:23,217
echo so you have those cloud clearance requirements It's not just one mile clear clouds You have

401
00:32:23,217 --> 00:32:28,494
the the clearance requirements to avoid a collision all the way down to the surface.

402
00:32:28,494 --> 00:32:34,504
So now we didn't just have a applicant memorize what airspace was, or if you're just watching

403
00:32:34,504 --> 00:32:39,394
this as a student, now you kinda know the why behind that And I think it helps you have a

404
00:32:39,394 --> 00:32:44,525
better fundamental understanding instead of that rote memorization you actually know the why,

405
00:32:44,525 --> 00:32:48,954
and now you know the regs better and it's gonna help make you a safer pilot So I just wanted to

406
00:32:48,954 --> 00:32:54,015
bring that up because I I think it's like a common thing that's missed on the ground a valve is

407
00:32:54,015 --> 00:33:00,774
not knowing, why the airspace is constructed like it is… Okay And last but not least we are

408
00:33:00,774 --> 00:33:05,834
going to talk about service difficulty reports SDRs.

409
00:33:05,834 --> 00:33:09,484
It's gonna be the last topic for the night and then we'll open it up for questions.

410
00:33:09,484 --> 00:33:15,329
On the podcast version, I know the screen share isn't that useful, but you can just remember

411
00:33:15,329 --> 00:33:18,949
if you're if you're sitting at the treadmill just remember Hey SDRFAA.

412
00:33:18,949 --> 00:33:24,089
That's what you're gonna type into the Google machine and it'll take you directly to this website that I have pulled up here.

413
00:33:24,089 --> 00:33:27,596
So what is a service difficulty report?

414
00:33:27,596 --> 00:33:31,487
An SDR is a way for…users in aviation

415
00:33:31,487 --> 00:33:35,676
to report…problems that they've had with an aircraft.

416
00:33:35,676 --> 00:33:39,297
And the reason this came up in our local FAA meeting is that we are

417
00:33:39,297 --> 00:33:43,187
having a lot of issues with flight controls.

418
00:33:43,187 --> 00:33:49,002
Believe it or not We've had several flight control problems…and We are messaging to all the

419
00:33:49,002 --> 00:33:53,962
maintainers out there all the AMT's that if they're and they're working on an airplane and they

420
00:33:53,962 --> 00:34:00,186
notice, any flight control problems like freight cables or, corrosion that's developed

421
00:34:00,186 --> 00:34:05,857
underneath safety wires or turn buckles, we're asking them to fill out a service difficulty

422
00:34:05,857 --> 00:34:11,932
report because what that does is those SDRs get consolidated at the FAA level And if there are

423
00:34:11,932 --> 00:34:18,232
enough SDRs for a specific thing that would allow the FAA to issue an

424
00:34:18,232 --> 00:34:22,857
NPRM for a airworthiness directive, or it may be

425
00:34:22,857 --> 00:34:28,044
even warrant an emergency airworthiness directive if there's enough of these SDRs.

426
00:34:28,044 --> 00:34:34,265
So for those of you who are AMT's or if you're an aircraft owner or operator or renter, and you

427
00:34:34,265 --> 00:34:38,234
just know that Hey we keep having x y or z problem a lot.

428
00:34:38,234 --> 00:34:43,284
You may wanna ask your AMT about Hey have they filed an SDR The the process is pretty

429
00:34:43,284 --> 00:34:46,674
straightforward you follow the process here on the website It's actually one of the good

430
00:34:46,674 --> 00:34:53,465
websites on the FAA So, it has an explanation of how the the safety difficulty reporting system

431
00:34:53,465 --> 00:34:58,085
works and what processes you need to follow in order to file an SDR.

432
00:34:58,085 --> 00:35:02,125
But it's a really good way for us as a community to track the safety trends And it makes

433
00:35:02,125 --> 00:35:07,135
everybody safer because if we're having a problem with control to cables here in Arkansas, I

434
00:35:07,135 --> 00:35:12,665
bet that there's other fizzos that are having the same issue and this may be a national problem

435
00:35:12,665 --> 00:35:18,105
and who knows what caused it but unless we consolidate these and and track them and start

436
00:35:18,105 --> 00:35:23,800
turning the metrics into actionable data, we just won't know And so the way we go about doing

437
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,650
that is with these SDR So if you're running into those issues especially control

438
00:35:27,650 --> 00:35:31,710
cables, ask your AMT about filing and SDR.

439
00:35:31,710 --> 00:35:36,390
Alright Those are my topics for this week. Again trying to keep it under an hour but I got time

440
00:35:36,390 --> 00:35:41,220
for some questions John do we got anybody And if you're in the discord with us there's not many

441
00:35:41,220 --> 00:35:46,730
people here tonight but you can raise your hand there and you can come on and and talk live on the show.

442
00:35:46,730 --> 00:35:53,280
Can a student pilot log PIC time with an instructor on board if they have a solo endorsement (per 14 CFR § 61.87)?

443
00:35:53,280 --> 00:36:00,160
And if so how does that play into sixty one sixty five golf… Okay So, I would say I I don't

444
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:06,100
like to make blanket statements because there probably is some carve outs here but for the most part no.

445
00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:12,540
A student pilot, a student pilot may not log… PIC time…before they are rated.

446
00:36:12,540 --> 00:36:18,000
And the one exception is when they're taking your private pilot checkride because there's a

447
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:23,010
specific allowance in the FAA FARs that say when you're sitting for your practical test even

448
00:36:23,010 --> 00:36:26,345
though you aren't qualified you're you've met all the qualification criteria.

449
00:36:26,345 --> 00:36:31,085
The examiner doesn't count as an instructor and the examiner is not a passenger.

450
00:36:31,085 --> 00:36:37,375
Therefore you can log PIC time. That's the first time you should be putting PIC time in your

451
00:36:37,375 --> 00:36:40,575
logbook when someone else was on the airplane.

452
00:36:40,575 --> 00:36:45,445
So that's a simple way to think about that If you're a student pilot and you're putting PIC time

453
00:36:45,445 --> 00:36:50,385
in your logbook and there's someone else on the airplane, you're doing it wrong make sure

454
00:36:50,385 --> 00:36:57,156
you're not doing that So, yeah the what could cause the confusion… is the sole

455
00:36:57,156 --> 00:37:02,856
manipulator role right Where you hear hey if I'm the sole manipulator as the controls, I can

456
00:37:02,856 --> 00:37:06,876
log PIC time Well that's only if you're properly

457
00:37:06,876 --> 00:37:11,486
rated for the airplane and an endorsement does not count as a rating.

458
00:37:11,486 --> 00:37:17,366
So there's no way that you could be a student pilot and rated for a single engine land aircraft.

459
00:37:17,366 --> 00:37:21,606
Therefore you could not log PIC time even though you're the sole manipulator… And then you

460
00:37:21,606 --> 00:37:26,691
wouldn't be able to use that time towards sixty for your instrument time either.

461
00:37:26,691 --> 00:37:32,131
Now I think the the second part of your question may be a little more nuanced is and correct me

462
00:37:32,131 --> 00:37:37,051
if I'm wrong here John but, he was asking how that, how he could basically log time he did as

463
00:37:37,051 --> 00:37:40,351
a student pilot towards his instrument rating Was that part of the question?

464
00:37:40,351 --> 00:37:44,341
No He's specifically asking about sixty one sixty five golf which is

465
00:37:44,341 --> 00:37:48,961
the combined private pilot instrument rating… Oh okay.

466
00:37:48,961 --> 00:37:53,271
Yeah I would have to pull that one up I'm not knowledgeable enough on the combined rating.

467
00:37:53,271 --> 00:37:57,021
The the combined rating… is a different beast.

468
00:37:57,021 --> 00:38:02,511
I remember the first time I went through DPE training… the the people running the training had

469
00:38:02,511 --> 00:38:06,671
only ever looked at two of those applications the whole time they'd been in the FA.

470
00:38:06,671 --> 00:38:13,136
Like it is an exceedingly rare thing to do So I just…I'm not gonna speculate on that I would

471
00:38:13,136 --> 00:38:16,376
have to dig into the FARs on that combined rating.

472
00:38:16,376 --> 00:38:21,966
Yeah The there is a way that you can take that's really the only combined check right that there

473
00:38:21,966 --> 00:38:25,766
is in the FA There's a combined private pilot and instrument rating.

474
00:38:25,766 --> 00:38:30,236
but that doesn't change any of the rules as far as logging PIC time.

475
00:38:30,236 --> 00:38:35,436
So all of the instrument time that you would be getting for that double rating when you had a

476
00:38:35,436 --> 00:38:41,986
CFI on board, that wouldn't be PIC time So the only way to log PIC time would be to do a solo.

477
00:38:41,986 --> 00:38:48,736
Evan Haug in, YouTube wants to know What you would do if you can't get or you

478
00:38:48,736 --> 00:38:54,866
couldn't get a CFI checkride in the local area and whether you travel… Yeah I would recommend

479
00:38:54,866 --> 00:39:01,006
traveling if you can… You know it it's it's difficult Man I I get these questions all the time

480
00:39:01,006 --> 00:39:05,456
And I'm sorry if somebody's watching here and I haven't answered their email I get a lot of

481
00:39:05,456 --> 00:39:09,506
emails every single day asking for check rides and I probably need like some sort of AI

482
00:39:09,506 --> 00:39:14,886
assistant to just send out a blanket statement saying hey I'm… just busy I'll get I'll get to

483
00:39:14,886 --> 00:39:19,416
you when I can get to you The weather's been really bad yeah I've got a ton of excuses So, but

484
00:39:19,416 --> 00:39:24,886
yeah I I really empathize with you trying to get a CFI ride One of the problems is there's not

485
00:39:24,886 --> 00:39:30,076
that many examiners not all examiners can get the CFI…checkride So that's one of the least

486
00:39:30,076 --> 00:39:33,296
number of examiners we have is for CFI initials.

487
00:39:33,296 --> 00:39:36,566
The other problem is CFI initials take up a lot of time.

488
00:39:36,566 --> 00:39:42,890
and in the shortage that we're in right We have it and I I call it a shortage because that's

489
00:39:42,890 --> 00:39:48,940
what everybody else is calling it but what it really is is the spike of demand that we're seeing right now.

490
00:39:48,940 --> 00:39:53,720
we're busy giving a lot of these other check rides and we just don't have time to do a CFI and

491
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:59,540
it actually turns in there's a little bit of monetary here as we lose money doing a CFI exam

492
00:39:59,540 --> 00:40:03,190
because I can do two or even three,

493
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:07,055
regular check rides but I can only do one CFI.

494
00:40:07,055 --> 00:40:13,535
And so if I choose to go out and do one CFI exam I might be losing, you know significant amount

495
00:40:13,535 --> 00:40:18,025
of money And if I'm doing this as you know a side job or my primary

496
00:40:18,025 --> 00:40:22,675
doesn't really matter that it's competing with my other sources of income.

497
00:40:22,675 --> 00:40:27,595
And so…because it takes so long you can only do one It's kind of a stressful checkride for

498
00:40:27,595 --> 00:40:33,985
both ends for both you and us it's just we don't do them a lot I don't do that many.

499
00:40:33,985 --> 00:40:37,555
I know that's not a great answer I wish I had a better answer for you.

500
00:40:37,555 --> 00:40:44,320
the but the best thing I would recommend is use the DMS search function find us a CFI.

501
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,220
And if you don't I've got the screen share pulled up So let's look at that and I'll actually

502
00:40:48,220 --> 00:40:52,321
show you how to search…for a CFI examiner.

503
00:40:52,321 --> 00:40:55,491
So you wanna go to designee dot f a dot gov.

504
00:40:55,491 --> 00:41:01,611
Right And this is the official way to find yourself an examiner… And you go to find designees…

505
00:41:01,611 --> 00:41:06,901
and the designee type you want a DPE course right?

506
00:41:06,901 --> 00:41:11,251
And you wanna do a designee search not a location search.

507
00:41:11,251 --> 00:41:15,881
well you could do a location search I guess And you could select a state that you wanna travel

508
00:41:15,881 --> 00:41:19,713
to So let's say you you're willing to travel to Colorado.

509
00:41:19,713 --> 00:41:25,113
So we're gonna do a location search for Colorado, and then you want to find the correct code

510
00:41:25,113 --> 00:41:31,964
for the CFI examiner And a way to do that is, a DPE… and

511
00:41:31,964 --> 00:41:37,864
then…you're going to find an…f I e I a s e.

512
00:41:37,864 --> 00:41:43,424
So that is a flight instructor…initial airplane single engine.

513
00:41:43,424 --> 00:41:47,484
if you just do the Fie, then that is just an examiner

514
00:41:47,484 --> 00:41:51,644
that can give a flight instructor like a CFII and add on.

515
00:41:51,644 --> 00:41:55,484
But you want the FieI i forget what exactly that stands for.

516
00:41:55,484 --> 00:42:01,004
So that would be all that you select there and then you hit search… And so what you should have

517
00:42:01,004 --> 00:42:07,634
is a list of only the examiners in Colorado that can give f I e I a s e

518
00:42:07,634 --> 00:42:11,274
, which is the single engine… flight instructor initial.

519
00:42:11,274 --> 00:42:16,384
So that's how you would actually use that search tool. And looking here let's just count in

520
00:42:16,384 --> 00:42:22,929
Colorado We've got one, two three four five six seven So there's seven

521
00:42:22,929 --> 00:42:26,749
examiners…in Colorado that can give that checkride.

522
00:42:26,749 --> 00:42:30,309
now if we were to search all DPE types I'm sure there's

523
00:42:30,309 --> 00:42:33,979
way more than that in Colorado So that's part of the problem that seeing there.

524
00:42:33,979 --> 00:42:38,379
But once you have those examiners you've got their phone number and their email address there.

525
00:42:38,379 --> 00:42:43,509
So I would if they've got their phone number listed send them a text send them an email… Saying

526
00:42:43,509 --> 00:42:49,129
hey I'm I'm willing to travel to you I'm ready and signed off I'm good to go but yeah I would recommend that.

527
00:42:49,129 --> 00:42:52,239
try to try to get it done I know it's I know it's tough.

528
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:56,299
It's difficult. Alright What else do we got John we got another question.

529
00:42:56,299 --> 00:43:03,006
we do. So let's take a look and Discord Rose is asking, whether the

530
00:43:03,006 --> 00:43:08,306
… the following instrument rating ACS knowledge I them Proceed and limitations associated with a

531
00:43:08,306 --> 00:43:14,316
precision approach including determining required descent rates and adjusting minimums in the case of inoperative equipment.

532
00:43:14,316 --> 00:43:18,946
If you were to test this item and go past the acceptable knowledge and see where the applicant's

533
00:43:18,946 --> 00:43:23,671
knowledge ends, what kinds of questions would you ask… Interesting.

534
00:43:23,671 --> 00:43:28,692
Okay. So let's see here. I've I've got this question pulled up Let me read it for just a

535
00:43:28,692 --> 00:43:32,732
second and analyze and make sure I'm looking at it right.

536
00:43:32,732 --> 00:43:36,462
Because there's a couple things I'd like to cover here First of all that's a that's a great question.

537
00:43:36,462 --> 00:43:40,112
I like that question. So let's go to the Ace Guide and we're looking at

538
00:43:40,112 --> 00:43:44,502
the, instrument rating ACS knowledge topic item.

539
00:43:44,502 --> 00:43:49,221
So that is in six… bravo kilo one Okay.

540
00:43:49,221 --> 00:43:56,147
So this is in our precision approach task. So looking at how…the ACS is constructed

541
00:43:56,147 --> 00:44:00,267
this doesn't always get asked right Because I only have to ask one

542
00:44:00,267 --> 00:44:05,047
knowledge topic, one risk management topic and then you have to do all of the skills.

543
00:44:05,047 --> 00:44:11,907
So this task right here of knowing… how to determine the required descent rate and adjusting

544
00:44:11,907 --> 00:44:17,039
minimums in the case of inoperative equipment that might be tied…with some sort of partial

545
00:44:17,039 --> 00:44:23,840
panel scenario, which is kind of interesting because if you go to the partial panel scenario,

546
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:30,050
we can go over here to our… our appendix three gives us our amplifying remarks about

547
00:44:30,050 --> 00:44:36,810
our partial panel, and that's in task a So remember this knowledge topic was in task b So task

548
00:44:36,810 --> 00:44:39,960
a says, pay the the non

549
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,520
precision has to be partial panel not the precision approach.

550
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,919
So this would be one of the items that would probably be covered on the ground only I don't see

551
00:44:48,919 --> 00:44:54,050
this being covered in the flight because I don't do a partial panel precision approach in flight.

552
00:44:54,050 --> 00:44:58,430
so that that could be something listed to that Another piece of inoperative equipment that we

553
00:44:58,430 --> 00:45:05,414
might have is if you were going to lose DME So if you had… you know DME on a

554
00:45:05,414 --> 00:45:10,584
non precision approach, then you might have to do a timed approach to do that Right?

555
00:45:10,584 --> 00:45:16,294
But on a precision approach, I don't really see… how I would work this into a reasonable

556
00:45:16,294 --> 00:45:23,195
scenario…of you determining your required descent rate because of inoperative equipment

557
00:45:23,195 --> 00:45:29,335
because if the descent rate is just you holding, the glide slope Right If you have a glide

558
00:45:29,335 --> 00:45:33,559
slope and I'm assuming you do since you're doing a precision approach, you should be able to

559
00:45:33,559 --> 00:45:38,239
maintain the glide slope without having to do any mental math or anything.

560
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:43,269
Right? now where I might key in on this as a knowledge topic area and this is in my plan of

561
00:45:43,269 --> 00:45:49,734
action…is asking you to change the minimums because of inoperative equipment, but that

562
00:45:49,734 --> 00:45:53,254
inoperative equipment doesn't have anything to do with the aircraft It has the inoperative

563
00:45:53,254 --> 00:45:56,914
equipment with the actual approach lighting system.

564
00:45:56,914 --> 00:46:01,824
So pieces the approach lighting system being inoperative i often throw those into the plan of

565
00:46:01,824 --> 00:46:06,184
action saying, okay you read the Notems for x y z airport.

566
00:46:06,184 --> 00:46:11,684
And you see that there's something about an ALS and the Pappy's inoperative.

567
00:46:11,684 --> 00:46:16,324
How is that going to affect our ability to fly the approach that you planned on flying?

568
00:46:16,324 --> 00:46:22,794
So if you look in the the… the IFR digital supplement, guide in the front of foreflight you'll

569
00:46:22,794 --> 00:46:27,714
actually see that there's an in op table that's there on the digital, supplement.

570
00:46:27,714 --> 00:46:33,234
And it tells you how much that you need to increase minimums by for different pieces of inoperative lighting equipment.

571
00:46:33,234 --> 00:46:38,814
And that's that's how I work that piece of that question into my, plan of action But to be

572
00:46:38,814 --> 00:46:43,984
honest that knowledge topic one I don't I don't know how I would, you know first of all really

573
00:46:43,984 --> 00:46:49,599
gonna try you know if you give me an intelligent answer to that question…about how well if I'm

574
00:46:49,599 --> 00:46:55,139
shooting an ILS for instance with a tailwind, I might need seven to eight hundred feet a minute.

575
00:46:55,139 --> 00:47:00,049
then if I'm shooting an ILS with a headwind. Okay That's pretty good knowledge of you know your

576
00:47:00,049 --> 00:47:05,379
ground speed is gonna be related to your required descent rate to maintain a glide slope.

577
00:47:05,379 --> 00:47:10,829
But specifically that that knowledge in relation to a precision approach doesn't really make

578
00:47:10,829 --> 00:47:15,589
sense for how the the check rights constructed because all of those discussions for loss of

579
00:47:15,589 --> 00:47:19,509
equipment… in the aircraft and having to, do a timed

580
00:47:19,509 --> 00:47:23,629
approach or something like that That's all gonna come up in task c.

581
00:47:23,629 --> 00:47:27,599
Or sorry task a which is the non precision approach which is where the partial panel is gonna

582
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:32,129
take place… that's a good question I I haven't looked at that knowledge topic that closely

583
00:47:32,129 --> 00:47:37,539
before so I appreciate it… Yeah I'm a CFI in Baltimore Maryland…the I guess question I had

584
00:47:37,539 --> 00:47:44,474
someone had for me or recently was…the three hours of you know referent sole sole use of

585
00:47:44,474 --> 00:47:50,213
reference to instruments in the private pilot requirement thus three hours required… can those

586
00:47:50,213 --> 00:47:57,013
three hours, you know their There's some similarities in the training that we provide in that

587
00:47:57,013 --> 00:48:03,738
There's a lot of similarities…to like what we would provide in even instrument training and

588
00:48:03,738 --> 00:48:09,088
the certain parts of instrument training…and even the commercial the ten hours of, quote

589
00:48:09,088 --> 00:48:12,348
unquote instrument training for the commercial pilot certificate.

590
00:48:12,348 --> 00:48:18,948
so I guess they were asking can any can any of those three hours count toward anything else like

591
00:48:18,948 --> 00:48:23,708
instrument or commercial or or they only just for solely for the private?

592
00:48:23,708 --> 00:48:28,348
Sure Yeah No That's a great question That gets brought up a lot So the

593
00:48:28,348 --> 00:48:33,031
answer as often the answer is is it's it depends.

594
00:48:33,031 --> 00:48:39,831
And so what it depends on is your level of certification as a, or,

595
00:48:39,831 --> 00:48:44,451
yeah, whatever you are as an instructor If you're a double I know if you're properly rated as a

596
00:48:44,451 --> 00:48:48,121
CFII and you're providing…the flight by soul reference

597
00:48:48,121 --> 00:48:51,881
to instrument then it's actually instrument training.

598
00:48:51,881 --> 00:48:57,853
And you can use that to count towards the sixty one, sixty five requirements for the instrument rating.

599
00:48:57,853 --> 00:49:01,413
And if it's properly logged, you could technically use

600
00:49:01,413 --> 00:49:05,053
that to count towards the ten hours of commercial training.

601
00:49:05,053 --> 00:49:09,423
Not many people do that I don't know anybody that do that because

602
00:49:09,423 --> 00:49:13,903
you need fifteen hours for your instrument Right You need fifteen hours with a CFII.

603
00:49:13,903 --> 00:49:18,931
you need ten hours of instrument training for with a CFII for your commercial.

604
00:49:18,931 --> 00:49:25,491
So often the question is similar but slightly different of can I use the fifteen hours I

605
00:49:25,491 --> 00:49:32,391
did for my instrument rating to qualify for the ten hours of instrument training I need for my commercial rating?

606
00:49:32,391 --> 00:49:36,781
and the answer there is it still depends on how you logged it.

607
00:49:36,781 --> 00:49:43,701
So for your specific question yes you could use that time towards the fifteen hours of

608
00:49:43,701 --> 00:49:49,241
dual instrument training by a CF CFII for the instrument rating as long as you yourself

609
00:49:49,241 --> 00:49:54,381
are a CFII and I would put a note on there saying that that's actually a simulated

610
00:49:54,381 --> 00:49:59,471
instrument time and I'm a CFI i would put the little note there and you maybe even be able to

611
00:49:59,471 --> 00:50:05,440
put another note that says…I AW you know which is a brevity code for in accordance

612
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:08,710
with and then put sixty one sixty five.

613
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:13,770
So anybody auditing the logbook will know oh that time wasn't just sixty one one zero nine time

614
00:50:13,770 --> 00:50:18,490
That was also sixty one sixty five time So that must have been a CFII And I can check And

615
00:50:18,490 --> 00:50:22,941
yeah sure enough Elias is c f double I and all that's copacetic.

616
00:50:22,941 --> 00:50:28,130
now if you're now doing instrument training and your instrument student is gonna go on and get

617
00:50:28,130 --> 00:50:32,140
their commercial, you wanna make sure that the fifteen hours of instrument training you give

618
00:50:32,140 --> 00:50:38,210
them…double counts and counts for this ten hours of commercial instrument training that they need.

619
00:50:38,210 --> 00:50:45,001
And so for for that to count, there needs to be some sort of notation in the logbook

620
00:50:45,001 --> 00:50:49,881
… This is why digital logbooks are so great because you can fit all of this stuff in there, but

621
00:50:49,881 --> 00:50:54,071
that that logbook needs to say this training was in accordance with

622
00:50:54,071 --> 00:50:59,193
IAW sixty one sixty five and…sixty one one twenty nine.

623
00:50:59,193 --> 00:51:04,325
And sixty one one twenty nine is of course the the commercial, you know requirements of

624
00:51:04,325 --> 00:51:09,833
training that outline hey you need ten hours of instrument training time done by double I.

625
00:51:09,833 --> 00:51:15,823
So there's a I answered two kind of different parts of your question, but, yes.

626
00:51:15,823 --> 00:51:19,423
The answer is simply yes but there also that it it depends.

627
00:51:19,423 --> 00:51:24,903
You need to make sure that you have the right instructor and that you logged it correctly… I…

628
00:51:24,903 --> 00:51:31,693
I want to maybe raise a little bit of a flag with part of that I don't think that

629
00:51:31,693 --> 00:51:35,551
training, towards a private pilot rating.

630
00:51:35,551 --> 00:51:39,158
Is eligible to be used for a commercial pilot license.

631
00:51:39,158 --> 00:51:46,128
there's the theory of interpretation that, as I understand basically says that you can use it

632
00:51:46,128 --> 00:51:51,291
towards your current rating but you can't train towards a future rating…until you have that

633
00:51:51,291 --> 00:51:55,331
previous rating And it's different with the instrument because that's sorry I should say it's

634
00:51:55,331 --> 00:51:58,851
certificate Right So you you can't train towards a commercial

635
00:51:58,851 --> 00:52:03,006
certificate without first having the prerequisite certificate.

636
00:52:03,006 --> 00:52:07,686
An instrument rating is not a certificate so you can train at the same time as a student pilot

637
00:52:07,686 --> 00:52:12,906
towards that, instrument rating is my understanding… Yeah I think you're I think you're right

638
00:52:12,906 --> 00:52:17,726
So while you were talking I pulled up… The Theralt… LOI.

639
00:52:17,726 --> 00:52:23,806
And so Thural twenty ten. this is out of the Ace Guide and it just gives basically the subtext

640
00:52:23,806 --> 00:52:26,886
here of…or the synopsis.

641
00:52:26,886 --> 00:52:31,456
So furthermore cross country or night flights conducted during private pilot training cannot

642
00:52:31,456 --> 00:52:34,776
count towards commercial pilot certificate requirements…each

643
00:52:34,776 --> 00:52:38,146
as each certification level requires dedicated training.

644
00:52:38,146 --> 00:52:41,676
So Yeah You're right And I I think it's

645
00:52:41,676 --> 00:52:45,366
moot point anyway because you're only doing three hours of instrument.

646
00:52:45,366 --> 00:52:49,946
I don't think the thoreau specifically calls out the time with an instructor I think it's

647
00:52:49,946 --> 00:52:53,926
talking about the solo time for the cross country

648
00:52:53,926 --> 00:52:58,466
… but in either case I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend doing that.

649
00:52:58,466 --> 00:53:03,696
don't try to bend the roles there because you're already getting fifteen hours as an instrument

650
00:53:03,696 --> 00:53:09,391
and that's what this legal interpretation is saying is that you're you're completely welcome to

651
00:53:09,391 --> 00:53:14,891
use that fifteen hours of instrument training received as an instrument pilot during that

652
00:53:14,891 --> 00:53:18,341
training towards your commercial… So don't don't even try to

653
00:53:18,341 --> 00:53:21,881
put the private palette in there So I wouldn't recommend that.

654
00:53:21,881 --> 00:53:27,701
But yeah thanks for bringing up that LOI. That's the whole, there's actually two LOIs I don't

655
00:53:27,701 --> 00:53:31,231
know them off the top of my head other than Thural I don't know what the other one is.

656
00:53:31,231 --> 00:53:35,271
maybe ord. Yeah I think it's ord That's it… Yeah The

657
00:53:35,271 --> 00:53:39,691
ord twenty eighteen is the one that actually says it has to be properly logged.

658
00:53:39,691 --> 00:53:46,051
So if you wanted to look that LOI up, that's where you'd find that… okay Well we're right at an hour.

659
00:53:46,051 --> 00:53:49,678
I answered some questions. And stay too long tonight So those

660
00:53:49,678 --> 00:53:53,418
that didn't get their question answered on YouTube come over to Discord.

661
00:53:53,418 --> 00:53:58,866
join the Discord server and ask your question there I'm I'm at Discord all week I answer

662
00:53:58,866 --> 00:54:02,306
questions in there a lot And then there's guys like Elias and John that are in here that'll

663
00:54:02,306 --> 00:54:07,145
probably answer correctly before I even get to it So, we we've been getting a lot of good

664
00:54:07,145 --> 00:54:11,966
conversations in Discord and I just love it I've I've been using Discord way more than any other

665
00:54:11,966 --> 00:54:17,186
social media stuff and it seems like it's a lot more targeted So… Alright.

666
00:54:17,186 --> 00:54:22,045
Well that's it for this week's show I hope y'all join us next week and we'll see you next time …