Puppy Culture Potluck: Ep26 - Raw Feeding? You Might Be Over-Thinking This. Raw Diets for Puppies - Part Two

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I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist,

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And this is a Puppy Culture

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potluck podcast.

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You bring the topics,
we bring the conversation.

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This episode is a continuation
of the last one.

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One of our followers wrote in and asked

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a lot of questions about feeding raw.

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So many, in fact, that I couldn't
tackle them all in one episode.

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So if you want to go back

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and listen to episode one, it's
the episode before this one.

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But here we go.

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We're going to jump right in with complete

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and balanced and AAFCO.

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And the reason I'm starting with this
is that when someone doesn't

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want you to feed your dog a raw diet,
one of the first things

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they're probably going to trot out
is, well, it's not complete imbalanced.

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So I think it's really important
to understand

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what AAFCO and complete imbalanced is
and is not.

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And why, in my opinion, it's
irrelevant to you

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if you're going to feed raw.

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Complete and balanced

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is a designation
created by AAFCO and AAFCO

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also created the criteria

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that dog food companies have to meet

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before they can call their food

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complete and balanced.

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So a lot of people think that AAFCO
is some kind of government

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agency that oversees

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pet nutrition, and it's not.

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It stands for the Association

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of American Feed Control Officials.

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Now, you would think that the FDA

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or the USDA would be
the ones that would regulate pet food.

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You would think that there would be
something sort of like the surgeon

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general, but the veterinary general
that is part of the U.S.

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government that establishes
nutrition guidelines for our pets.

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But that is not the case.

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In fact, very explicitly
that is not the case.

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AAFCO is a volunteer organization

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staffed by members of the biggest pet food
companies in the world.

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Hill's Pet Nutrition. Nestlé.

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Purina Nutritional.

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Cargill Animal Nutrition.

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It's the pet food companies
governing themselves.

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There's no adult in the room here.

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There's no government oversight.

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In fact,

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to the contrary,

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the FDA, who you would think
would be the ones that would be in charge

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of the safety of the food for our pets

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has explicitly said,

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we're out.

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And in fact, AAFCO can do our job.

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On the FDA's website, it says,
and this is a quote,

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AAFCO is vital to the continued
regulation of pet food products

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because FDA has limited enforcement
resources

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that are focused
on human food safety issues.

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So, okay, let's just start with

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the fox is watching the henhouse.

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Don't get your knickers in a tangle
if you feed kibble.

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I'm not saying that the fox is always

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that bad
and we're going to talk about that,

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but we do have to get it out of the way
that the pet food industry

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is governing themselves
and making the rules

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up as they go along.

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So right out of the box,
there's a credibility issue here

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with any of their recommendations.

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Again,
I'm not saying that automatically means

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that AAFCO designations are useless

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or that every food that is AAFCO
certified is bad.

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I'm just saying that

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relying on the recommendations

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of AAFCO as dispositive

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on the topic of pet nutrition

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is, in my opinion, ill advised

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because of the significant conflict

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of interests involved.

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And I'm sorry,
I'm going to hammer this a little bit

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because I'm not saying
that they're always wrong.

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I'm just saying that you have to take
whatever AAFCO is telling you

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with a grain of salt
because of that conflict of interest.

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And we're going to
talk more later about that.

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So back

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to the complete and balanced designation.

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For a food to be complete and balanced
it has to meet certain criteria.

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It has to meet AAFCO’s
nutritional guidelines,

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and it also has to pass a feeding trial.

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There is an exception for foods
that are identical to other foods

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that have already passed feeding trials,
but it has to pass this feeding trial.

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And that's another thing
that pet food companies will tout.

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And people will say, well, you know,

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I mean, they've done
feeding trials on this food.

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So we know it's nutritious. And,

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I'm just going to tell you
what these feeding trials are.

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Okay?

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And then it's up to you to decide
how much credence

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you want to lend to their feeding trials.

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So a feeding trial has to include

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eight dogs, six of which

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have to complete the trial.

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During six months

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those dogs can eat only the food

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that's on trial.

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None of the dogs can die
from malnutrition.

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None of the dogs can lose

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more than 15% of their body weight

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and their blood is checked

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for four metrics only.

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So six dogs

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have to survive
for six months on the food.

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And I think survive is the operative term
here.

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Okay. They can't die of malnutrition.

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But listen, there's a lot of food
related illnesses that you can get.

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So just simply not dying

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of malnourishment
for six months on a food,

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I mean, that doesn't mean
that it's a healthy food.

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It just means that it's not actually fatal

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to eat it for six months.

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So I'm just going to say it's my opinion

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that if you are feeding

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a whole food diet, well,

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first of all, that feeding trial

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to me is meaningless.

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I mean, any of us are doing
a feeding trial like that.

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If you're a breeder
and you have a lot of dogs in your house,

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we're doing more dogs than that
every six months.

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And our dogs are living and thriving
and living beyond

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average for the breed. So

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the feeding trials to me are meaningless.

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You can form your own opinion.

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Now, the nutritional guidelines
are more interesting

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because, you know,
you have to realize that

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when they're putting together dog foods,

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they're using

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what they have available to them,
which is the byproduct

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of the human food industry.

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So it's the sweeping off the floor, it's
feathers, it's, you know, meal.

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I don't exactly know what this meal is,
but some byproduct,

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it's meat meal,
some byproduct of the food industry.

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But again, you can look it up.

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There's lots been written on that.

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I'm not getting into it.

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But what I'm saying is,
when you're cobbling together

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a food out of these byproducts
that are not really

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the things a dog is meant to eat
that are not

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necessarily nutritious

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in there

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because they're not a whole food
in a whole form.

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Yeah, I mean,
you need some nutritional guidelines

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because otherwise

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you don't know

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you need some guidelines
that you can measure this stuff

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that you've put together
and know whether it's going to sustain

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a dog.

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But, you know, we don't really need

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a nutritional analysis

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of whole natural foods to know
that they sustain life because they do.

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I mean, that's not,
okay, I'm going to use another example

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again, going like the last time
I used a human example.

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So let's just say

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when you are feeding your family,
you know, they change food guidelines.

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I know the food
pyramid has changed from time to time,

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but basically it's the food
pyramid, right?

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Your eating whole foods,
you're rotating through foods

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and over time,
and that's the key word over

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time, you're getting a wholesome, healthy
whole food meal.

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You're getting your nutrition.

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There is no utility

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in testing every single meal

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and saying, oh, well,
this meal that you're eating is

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rejected as non nutritious
because it doesn't meet

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all your nutritional requirements,
because that's not how food works

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in the real world.

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In the real world, you know, you eat
and you put good food

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together and over time, it's
healthy and nutritious.

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I mean, I suppose you could engineer

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a dish of food using whole ingredients
that truly did

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meet all your nutritional requirements
in each meal.

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But it wouldn't be very palatable.

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First of all.

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And second of all, it's
just it's nonsensical.

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It's not how we're designed to eat.

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But if on the other hand,

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you were going into outer space

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and you were going to be eating food
out of a tube for six months,

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well, you bet your bippy,
they better be analyzing that food

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to within an inch of its life
and know exactly what the nutrient

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components are in it because it has to
sustain life artificially.

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It's not a whole natural food.

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So, yeah, it needs analysis,
it needs guidelines.

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And that is my analogy that I use with

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kibble versus a whole food raw diet.

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Yes, you have to have
nutritional guidelines for kibble.

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And by the way, AAFCO although they are
the fox watching the henhouse,

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most pet food companies are very,
they make very good foods.

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I mean, they have a vested interest
in making a food

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that your dog will thrive on. So

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it's not like

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the nutritional guidelines of AAFCO
or all pet food

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companies are,
it's completely meaningless and bad.

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It's meaningful
if you're sort of playing in that sandbox

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of a highly processed food that's cobbled
together from random ingredients.

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But if you know,
if you're going to feed raw, complete

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and balanced
and AAFCO it's irrelevant to you.

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At least that's my opinion.

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And by the way, you can find foods,
raw foods that are complete and balanced.

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So, you know, if that makes you feel
better, you can find them.

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But to me it's not relevant.

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So now let's move on to the next question
that our fan had,

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which is a question
about the dangers of salmonella

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and listeria and such

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with raw feeding.

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So I think you have to separate this
into two parts.

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One is the safety for the dogs

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and the other is the safety for the humans
feeding the food.

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As far as the safety
for the raw meat of the raw diet

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for dogs in general,
there is virtually zero issue

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because dogs are designed to eat meat
and carrion.

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They're actually designed
to eat rotten meat.

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In fact, the enzymes in carrion

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are helpful to a dog's digestive system.

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Now, relax.

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We're not going to feed
your dog rotten meat.

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But my point is,
any concerns about bacteria or salmonella?

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You know, dogs are designed just
to make short work of that kind of stuff.

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And I'll tell you why.

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Their intestine

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is extremely short compared to ours.

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And their stomachs are extremely acid
compared to ours.

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At one point in the digestive cycle,

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a dog's stomach acid is equivalent

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to the ph of battery acid.

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They are carrion and bone eating machines.

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So the whole salmonella
or listeria or whatever

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other pathogen people drum
up to instill fear in you,

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it is totally a non-issue for a dog
that is not in some way

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seriously immunocompromised.

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I'm going to put up links on the show

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page at madcapradio.com.

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It's a long topic.

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You can do a deep dive for yourself.

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Now. Parasites are a bit more tricky.

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We do freeze our raw food

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solid for at minimum a month

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and we keep our freezers at -15 degrees
Fahrenheit,

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which is -26 Celsius.

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And that does kill virtually any parasite.

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I would not feed my dog food

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that had not been frozen
solid for a month.

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Does it ever happen
that some weird parasite survives

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a hard freeze process like this?

252
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,640
Sure, it can happen, but

253
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,360
it appears to be extremely rare.

254
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,040
And from the cases I've read,

255
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,840
it's always been unknown or unclear

256
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,320
how the raw food was sourced, handled

257
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,400
and stored.

258
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,120
That having been said,
I can call out two things

259
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,920
that I definitely would not feed my dog

260
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,680
even if it was frozen solid for a month.

261
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:18,440
The first is any kind of fetus or placenta
from any livestock,

262
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,640
particularly cattle,

263
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,680
because that carries
a high risk of neospora

264
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,160
which might be resistant to freezing.

265
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,960
Again, kind of unclear whether

266
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,960
freezing at the right temperature

267
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,080
could really kill all neospora or not,

268
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,520
but I would not take a chance.

269
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,640
And by the way,
that's an argument for going to a source

270
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:50,760
that uses human grade food
because they won't be including

271
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,680
any kind of placental material
in their mixes.

272
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:59,600
The other thing I wouldn't feed my dog,
weird I know, is seal meat,

273
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,000
but if you live up north,
maybe you have access to seal meat,

274
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,080
because the parasites that infect seals

275
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,960
have adapted to live at very,
very cold temperatures

276
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:15,960
so they don't get killed
when you freeze them solid in the freezer.

277
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:19,920
Now, that does not appear

278
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:23,080
to be a problem with fish.

279
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:26,760
It seems to be a problem
limited to seal meat.

280
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,000
I don't know. Maybe penguins, too,

281
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:34,080
but I don't think anybody sourcing
penguins to feed their dog.

282
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:36,400
So those are two

283
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,160
definite hard
nos for me for feeding my dogs.

284
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:45,320
The other thing that I really
I just don't do anymore is I don't feed

285
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,360
wild game to my dogs.

286
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:52,360
I don't do it because of the increased

287
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:54,960
risk of parasitic contamination.

288
00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,760
Yes, freezing should kill those parasites,
but at this time

289
00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:05,560
I feel more comfortable with farm
raised meat from a controlled source.

290
00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:11,160
But I feel like with the wild game,
you know, it's a judgment call.

291
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,200
So to sum it all up,

292
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,840
it's my observation and experience
that sourcing raw food

293
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,800
from a commercial source
that's using human

294
00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,960
grade food ingredients
and freezing that food

295
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,440
for a month to 15 below zero

296
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:33,880
is about as safe as you can get.

297
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,120
But no food is 100% safe.

298
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:43,080
Every time you put something
in your mouth,

299
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,800
every time your dog
put something in their mouth,

300
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:48,720
you're taking

301
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,640
some kind of risk.

302
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,080
Dogs die and get sick

303
00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,640
from eating tainted kibble all the time.

304
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,400
There was that whole thing in 2007

305
00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:08,720
where the dog food had melamine in it
to increase the protein content.

306
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,760
Dogs were dying from that.

307
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:12,520
Hundreds of dogs.

308
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:17,640
In 2021, Hill's pet food
settled a lawsuit involving

309
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:21,480
dogs dying from an excess of vitamin
D in their foods.

310
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,440
There was also that sportmix food
sometime in the early 2000s

311
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:31,360
that was tainted
and dogs were dying from it.

312
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:36,320
I mean, I'm
not a tracker of these kinds of things,

313
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,640
and I'm just pulling
three random incidents out

314
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,960
just to say that
you're never no matter what you eat,

315
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,480
there's a risk something could go wrong.

316
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,920
I think these are not irresponsible
companies.

317
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,960
I mean, it's just it's food and things
get into the food supply and tainted and,

318
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,800
you know, whether it's raw
or whether it's kibble,

319
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,200
you're taking a risk when you eat
something, but you got to do it.

320
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:05,400
It's a risk you got to take.

321
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,280
I actually have never heard of a dog

322
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,120
getting sick from something like listeria

323
00:20:14,120 --> 00:20:18,480
or salmonella in eating raw food,
which is, again,

324
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,360
what people will always say,
oh, there's salmonella, listeria.

325
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:24,160
The dog can get sick.
I've never heard of it.

326
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:28,320
And I don't know of any comparable,
I've heard of pet food recalls

327
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:32,400
because of levels of salmonella,
salmonella and listeria.

328
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,600
But I've never heard of a dog getting sick
after eating it.

329
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:41,120
I mean, I'm sure it's happened somewhere
sometime, but I would doubt

330
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:45,400
probably that it was from
something like salmonella or listeria.

331
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:50,040
I would be much more inclined
to think that if a dog ever did get sick

332
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,880
from raw food, it was probably chemical

333
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,200
tainted food or something else.

334
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,920
I mean, just not the things

335
00:21:00,120 --> 00:21:01,800
that typically

336
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:07,280
people fearmonger
about when it comes to raw food.

337
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,760
To me, the biggest danger

338
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,680
of feeding raw is the choking hazard.

339
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:18,000
The only deaths I have known from me

340
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,880
or any of my friends or acquaintances,
of which

341
00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,160
there are a multitude that feed raw.

342
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,880
The only deaths I have known both involved
choking on chicken necks.

343
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,000
One was a sixteen week

344
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,480
old puppy that was left
unattended in a crate with a chicken neck,

345
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:41,160
and the puppy didn't chew the chicken neck
properly and choked to death on it.

346
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,520
Probably couldn't chew it properly
because it's sixteen weeks.

347
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,280
It was teething
and didn't have sufficient teeth,

348
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:49,920
but that's one case I know of.

349
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,480
And another case was a giant breed of dog

350
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,320
that was given a huge plate of chicken,
chicken necks.

351
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,560
And the dog
attempted to basically hawk back

352
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:05,360
an entire mouthful of chicken necks
and choked to death on it.

353
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:08,280
My dogs are

354
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,160
gulpers not chewers,
so I only feed raw mix.

355
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,920
I mean, it's
better to feed some chicken necks

356
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,960
if you can
because it's going to clean their teeth.

357
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:21,720
But my dogs, I mean, they don't chew them.

358
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,840
I only give them a chicken neck
if I'm there to supervise consumption

359
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,720
and make sure that they actually chew it
and don't choke to death.

360
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:30,960
Anything
that requires more chewing than a chicken

361
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,080
neck is totally off the table
for my bull terriers.

362
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,000
But my cattle dogs that I've owned,
I mean, I could give them a stripped

363
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,240
chicken frame and they just
systematically shred it from one end

364
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,520
to the other perfectly safely,
perfectly sensible dogs.

365
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:48,960
They were safe with any raw bone.

366
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,880
They would never attempt
to eat something they might choke on.

367
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,600
I had a bull terrier

368
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,480
almost choked to death
right in front of me on a chicken frame

369
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,520
because she literally cracked it
once between her molars to fold it in half

370
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,160
and then attempted to hock
the entire carcass back in one gulp.

371
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,120
So your dog's breed
is going to play a lot into

372
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,520
whether you need to grind your raw food

373
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,600
or buy ground raw food.

374
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,240
Now, as far as the danger

375
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,960
to humans from pets that are fed raw,
it's crazy.

376
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,280
I have no idea why it's such a big deal.

377
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:30,080
If you can prepare raw meat
and fish for your family,

378
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,280
you can feed your dog, raw dog food.

379
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,600
I mean, the same food safety rules apply.

380
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,600
I wear disposable nitrile gloves
when I handle food

381
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,640
just because I just don't
really like to touch it.

382
00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:48,680
And I pick up the dishes
after the dogs are done eating.

383
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,840
It's really a non-issue

384
00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:55,120
unless you yourself are immunocompromised.

385
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,480
Now, one of the questions
that the original poster had asked,

386
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,560
and I'll repeat it because I didn't repeat
all the questions at the beginning,

387
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,520
is whether she would need to wash
her miniature poodles face and feet

388
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,000
after she gives the poodle puppy
a raw, meaty bone.

389
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,320
I do wash the bedding after

390
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,080
my dogs have had bones, raw, meaty bones.

391
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,320
I pick up the bones
when they're done with them, and I put

392
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,560
the bones in the freezer for another time
if there's anything left on them.

393
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,480
I have short coated dogs,
so I don't wipe them off

394
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,000
unless there's some kind of visible blood
or meat on them.

395
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,120
The adult dogs will generally wipe

396
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:39,400
their own faces on the bedding,
and then the bedding is getting washed.

397
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,160
So it's all good.

398
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,160
You know, if it makes you feel better,

399
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,800
you can wipe off your dog
after she's had a bone.

400
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:52,040
But honestly, unless she's visibly dirty,
I don't feel it's necessary.

401
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,400
In my house we've survived up till now,
and that's all I can really tell you.

402
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,040
I would not go crazy sterilizing things

403
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:04,760
because I believe
that does more harm than good.

404
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,960
Soap and water is the best cleanser
and it's not going to add

405
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,680
toxins to your environment or overly
strip your environment.

406
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:16,200
So you're not getting any of
the beneficial flora in your environment.

407
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,960
But you know, I'm
not squeamish about raw food in general.

408
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:24,720
I can't even be trusted to make hamburgers
because I'm going to be salting it

409
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,920
and eating some of the raw burger meat
as I'm making the burgers, oysters,

410
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,400
clams, sushi. I love raw food.

411
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,280
If you find

412
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,480
raw food upsetting,
you have a bigger emotional bar

413
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,680
to get over,
regarding food safety in general.

414
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,040
In that case, you know,
you might want to clean off

415
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,360
your dog
completely after eating or restrict bone

416
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:54,640
chewing to a crate without a pad
and then sterilize the crate and so on.

417
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,320
I'm not recommending that.

418
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,000
But if that's what you need
to make yourself

419
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,640
comfortable, I'm not judging you.

420
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:05,160
Okay.

421
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:09,480
To wrap up, let's talk about her
last question, which was feeding

422
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,640
raw to puppies versus adults.

423
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,600
So I already touched on the fact that

424
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:19,560
when you're feeding raw, it's
just like when you're feeding your family

425
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:24,720
in the sense of
you're not aiming to have a balanced diet

426
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:29,440
in every meal
you're aiming for balanced over time.

427
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,320
And the biggest difference with puppies

428
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:39,960
is that you want to be closer
to a balanced meal

429
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,400
in every meal than you are
with adult dogs.

430
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:48,680
In other words,
you're still somewhat balancing over time,

431
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,280
but a much shorter time
because there are these

432
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,440
nutritional windows that open and close
and you want to be sure

433
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,720
that you're getting complete nutrition
in, in all of those windows.

434
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,840
The other thing I would say
that is different with puppies

435
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,000
is that you're colonizing the gut biome.

436
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:14,160
So where variety is important with adults,

437
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:20,560
really variety is crucial with puppies
because you're colonizing that gut biome,

438
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,320
which it's beyond the scope of this
to explain what the gut biome is, it's,

439
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,920
there's so much written on it
in the internet and you can search,

440
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,240
but it's really important and
it's really important that it's colonized.

441
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,720
And the way it gets
colonized is giving your puppy a variety

442
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,560
of whole and fermented foods
early in their life.

443
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,840
While that colonization
period is still open.

444
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:47,160
Circling back to the

445
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,160
balancing more

446
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:55,320
or less each day instead of each meal,
I'm not talking about AFFCO

447
00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:01,000
and their complete imbalanced designation
because that's their own thing

448
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,200
and their own guidelines,

449
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,840
which I think we've established, really
doesn't have anything to do with RAW.

450
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:10,360
I'm talking about,
per your raw feeding model

451
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,680
that you want to try and hit more balance

452
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,680
each day rather than over time.

453
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,760
Now, you can certainly do this yourself

454
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,600
if if you're really attentive
to what you're feeding your puppies.

455
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,040
But for me, I find it easier with puppies

456
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,680
to go to a commercial raw mix.

457
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:39,240
And the bigger companies now
all make puppy mixes, which is fantastic

458
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,960
because there are a few other
considerations, nutritional

459
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,920
considerations for puppies, which again
is beyond the scope of this podcast.

460
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,840
But if you get one of those
commercial mixes,

461
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,840
I keep my puppies on the commercial mix
for the first six months of their life.

462
00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:57,360
I do also

463
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:02,040
supplement with my own fermented foods
and stuff from the garden and so forth,

464
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:06,360
but at least I use as a base
that commercial puppy mix.

465
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,360
So as far as resources,
there are a bunch of good brands

466
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:13,240
I think I might have mentioned.

467
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,280
We feed BJ's Raw.

468
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,840
I believe they do actually have
a puppy mix.

469
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,840
We have used Darwin’s
as our puppy mix in the past

470
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,360
and I do really like their product.

471
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:30,400
Unfortunately, Darwin's

472
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,480
has an annoying subscription model
which is terrible.

473
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,880
If you're a breeder raising a litter of
puppies, you have to register a pet

474
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,680
and then they tell you what they're going
to send you and what you should buy.

475
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,320
And you can't just order what you need
as you need it.

476
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,280
When you're raising a litter of puppies,
that's really unhelpful

477
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,520
because the amounts vary
and the variety varies

478
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,280
and the needs of the puppies
change week to week.

479
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:59,720
But it's a small quibble.

480
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,400
I do think Darwin's
makes a very good product.

481
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,440
Their food is excellent
and maybe if enough breeders contact them,

482
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,880
they'll change that subscription model
for us.

483
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,960
If you're going to DIY your puppy food,

484
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,520
there are other nutritional peculiarities
for puppies that you do need to know.

485
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,560
I do recommend
Doctor Billinghirst's books.

486
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:25,280
There is a group called Raw Fed University
on Facebook

487
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:31,000
run by a woman named Ronnie Lejeune
and she's a certified nutritionist

488
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:36,040
and she also has a wonderful website
called perfectlyrawsome.

489
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,360
I do not know Ronnie personally.

490
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,880
I don't have any affiliation with her,
but I have followed her group for a while

491
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,280
and I appreciate her because she's
pragmatic and willing to work with anyone.

492
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,520
She doesn't freak out if someone
wants to do a hybrid kibble and raw diet,

493
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,800
She always seems to be looking for
the best under the circumstances

494
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:58,600
for the pet and the owner.

495
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,120
So the final question is about

496
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:05,240
recipes.

497
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,640
And I don't have
any raw food recipes to share,

498
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,920
but I think with all those resources
I gave you,

499
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:14,800
you know,
that should give you a really good start.

500
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,360
And there are some recipes
in those resources.

501
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,400
But I do have to videos
that will be very useful to you.

502
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,520
One is on making fermented
vegetables for dogs

503
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,640
and the other is on making kefir for dogs.

504
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:35,640
And you can find those both
at madcapuniversity.com,

505
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,640
click on the free resources tab

506
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,120
and then you'll see a free to view section

507
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,240
and the videos are under there.

508
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,560
So thanks to that listener for writing in
and requesting this podcast.

509
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:57,360
I really enjoy talking about this because
I feel like a lot of proponents of raw,

510
00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:59,720
well people can be put

511
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,120
off by them
because they tend to present it

512
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,000
really more as an ideology

513
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,200
than as just it's food, it's
healthy food for your dog.

514
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,240
So I hope I made this topic
a little more approachable for you

515
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,320
and I encourage you to follow

516
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:20,160
through with some of those resources
that I recommended.

517
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,520
If you liked this podcast,

518
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,440
you'll love our puppy bundles
at puppyculture.com.

519
00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,400
We have breeder bundles,
we have puppy owner bundles,

520
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,720
we have pet dog bundles,
we have show dog bundles.

521
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,800
Check them out a puppyculture.com.

522
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,800
Well, that's it for this time.

523
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,400
Thanks for listening.

524
00:32:43,400 --> 00:33:03,120
Bye bye.