What’s Next for Braves After Busy Week of Moves

00:00:21
Speaker 1: How everyone, and welcome back to the Hemer Territory podcast. This is episode three zero one. My name is Brad Roland and I'm joined on this Sunday evening in late November with a good friend, Scott Coleman. Scott, it's almost Thanksgiving and the Braves were actually pretty busy over the last several days.

00:00:37
Speaker 2: How are you, hello, Brad, I'm doing well. Happy early Thanksgiving to everybody out there. And yeah, it was a pretty busy week for the Braves. Maybe not like a stop the press is five alarm fire busy, but nonetheless we have moves.

00:00:53
Speaker 3: We have a new move.

00:00:54
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about tonight. And even across the rest of Major League Baseball, we started to see a little bit of activity. There's a big trade today with the Mets and the Rangers that went down, which we'll maybe talk about for thirty seconds. And you know, it feels like we're starting to see the ice thaw out. After a very slow start.

00:01:11
Speaker 1: To the offseason, Yeah, your favorite thing, the ultra slow baseball off season has begun to pick up. We should say at the top of the show. We are Hammer Territory. We covered the Atlanta Braves all year round, each week. I'll talk about every single week of the year, every month, every week, etc. No matter what's going on. But we are part of the Thoughts Territory Network and you should, please please please subscribe to our podcast either on audio platforms, Apple, Spotify. YouTube is also a place to watch us if you want to do that. If you are an audio listener, please subscribe on YouTube. If you're a video watcher on YouTube, please subscribe on audio platforms. We appreciate it and you say that like it was funny. You and I have not talked in almost a week on this podcast, but our colleagues Sean Coleman and Stephen Tolbert did quite literally back to back episodes. It was interesting the way it happened, shades of you and I having to record twice back in twenty eighteen when the Braves signed Josh Allison and I believe Brian mccannon in the same day or something, same situation where nothing had happened, it had been dead silent, and within like two hours they made two moves. This literally happened again to our guys, God bless them, back to back. We were deciding where we were going to tackle on the other episode, to the other one. No, we's just due to stretch episodes. But what happened was and we'll talk later on problem with our reactions to some of it. Right, sall, Glecias back. Mauricio Dubon is a Brave. Now, first, please subscribe to those episodes. Listen to those episodes. There's fresh on the feed, still relevant right now. But you already mentioned it, Scott. There was a little bit of new news since then. That's been three or four days since that happened. The Braves agreed to a one year, two point twenty five million dollar contract with yoel piumps. Is that we're going with yoel piumps pronunciation.

00:03:00
Speaker 2: That is our best guess. It's definitely yoel piomps. There was a little bit of maybe uncertainty, but we believe yoel piumps is in the mix for the Braves bullpen in twenty twenty six.

00:03:12
Speaker 1: We are solo on that pronunciation for now. You may remember, if you were still paying attention late in the season, he was on the Braves briefly last season. He had two appearances. Looks fine in those two appearances, but he was outrighted by the Braves about two and a half weeks ago, in part because his arbitration salary was like projected opetition now it was like three and a half million dollars. They probably don't want to pay that. But this is a guy with with the real record of success in.

00:03:44
Speaker 2: The major leagues.

00:03:44
Speaker 1: And importantly, we'll talk about some other other guys later on in the podcast who did some you know, non tender deadline stuff. They's had some cheaper contracts for goods like Eli white Enjoey Once, et cetera. This is a real commitments and that split contract, it's a real one year, two point two five million dollar contracts and that's not a twenty five million dollar contract, but it is a commitment to a player that projects, at least in my opinion, and I think yours too, to be in this bullpen based on this contract.

00:04:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, so two and a quarter million dollars is not nothing, and I would believe that unless Piomps just gets destroyed in spring training, he will be a member of the bullpen come opening day. That being said, for two and a quarter million dollars, if we're a month into the season and Piomps is carrying a nine era, you can easily move on, right, that's not a significant enough amount of money where you feel like you're married to him all year. With Piomps, this guy was really really good for the Milwaukee Brewers, especially in the twenty twenty three season. Was truthfully one of the better relievers in the National League that year, big time strikeout numbers, did not issue, a lot of walks, and really strong ERA FIP expected ERA across the board, really really good. Go to twenty twenty four. Piomps was fine, more fine than like really good as he was the year before. You would, truthfully, if you would just copy paste his twenty twenty four season to what the Braves could get in twenty six, you take it all day long ERA in the mid to upper threes, good strikeout numbers, fine walk numbers. That's been the story. What's curious is that Piomps went from being quite good to just abysmal in twenty twenty five. The Brewers cut ties. Of course, Milwaukee was the best team in the regular season for a lot of it, and they just flat out let him go. It's why the Braves were able to claim Piomps late in the year. So clearly the Braves are banking on being able to fix something, maybe a little bit of luck goes his way. Maybe the new pitching coach and fullpen coach can work with Piomps to tweak his pitches or make a mechanical adjustment to get him much get him back to being much closer to the guy who was a few years ago, because that would be valuable. But again, he was really bad last year. Brat, Like if there's there's no guarantees.

00:06:00
Speaker 1: With this, oh for sure, And that's why you're available for two billion dollars. I mean, that's That's the thing about this is that, yeah, it's it's a commitment, it's real money, and there is a slight you know, degree above the like guy who's gonna be waiting for a job of any kind later on the he's we say, it's a half tier above that kind of guy. But it is a bargain contract for this kind of player. You know, the two year sample size era of what two point seven eight, with like some pretty pristine supporting numbers like that kind of picture was is quite valuable. The only thing that I'll offer about last year is that his babbit was was absurdly high after it had been absurdly low at one point, so like there's some variation there. We won't do a full stat gast breakdown of his of his offerings or some slider stuff that I think is pretty interesting if you look at the data, but it's I tend to try. Alex is not infallible. He's made some mistakes, clearly that we've criticized him. For one thing he's been pretty good at is unearthing bullpen talent. So I tend to trust the braves evaluation, or at least that they see something in someone like Piomps more than my own. Like I'm not I've not watched one hundred innings of Joe Plamps of Yell Piems. I'm not, I've not done that. So I like to raise my hand and share what we know, what we don't know. But between the data before last year, because you're right, last year is not good, and the record that this front office has and kind of unearthing some of these more off the radar reliever talents, I think it's a move that I understand. It makes sense to me. If it had been six million, I would be like, what are we doing here? But for two point twenty five, Like I kind of get it, because it's not that, but that's not far above of what you're paying basically any veteran minimum player. That's just what it is.

00:07:43
Speaker 2: He's a lottery ticket. And my hope is that when this offseason is done with, we know how much of a priority this bullpen is, and even with pioms in the mix and right Selglacias being back and a few others they tendered contracts earlier in the week, this bullpen is still pretty shaky to me. And my hope is that when it's all said done, they add Piomps, they add maybe another lottery ticket type of arm for a couple million, but also go out and either sign or trade for a more proven, maybe more reliable or expected to be reliable reliever. We always say it relievers volatile year over year, but there are some really good relievers out there that are available. And as long as Alex does not have less money to spend than what we're expecting, I am would anticipate at least one more significant addition to the bullpen, and probably two or three.

00:08:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, you and I it's kind of funny you and you and I talked last. We did kind of a deep dive on bullpen options in part because we kind of saw coming that it might be the bullpen that moved first in the market. We kind of were right about that, quote unquote because the Right Cell deal happened only a couple days later. But in that discussion we did say, like, you know, they're not one reliever away. They were multiple relievers away, more than to be even if it's someone like even if it's bringing back Tyler Kinley or Pires Johnson, like somebody like that, in addition to what they've done so far with Rysel, because that's a one year commitment and it's it's a it's a big money deal. But this is not the number two and only addition to the bullpen, I wouldn't think. If it is, I think we'll be probably pretty critical of that. Even if I'm on record I don't want to spend a lot of money on the bullpen, and I still would be like, yeah, they probably had an arm short here without doing at least one at least one more arm of real significance short. Even if I want to go cheap, kind of not cheap, but like a percentage of money allocated. I'm even on that last show, I'll say it again, like I'd like to trick the money from the bullpen and slightly adjust it towards other things, but they've spent it on Ricelle and I think this is not a huge look. If this was if this happened the same day as Dubon and the Clasius, it would have been the third topic, not the first topic. But because it's the only that's happened since then, we're leading with it. But it's a real commitment. Again, it's it's a it's a major league contract for a guy who has had success not that long ago, and that makes it interesting, especially because there's some familiarity with last year. So yeah, here we are.

00:10:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's it's a worthwhile gamble, and I have a heart. You can always bail on a two and a quarter million dollar deal and hopefully come June and July we're talking about this was one of the best deals of the off season and the Braves found something. And again, maybe Jeremy Hefner, the new pitching coach or JP Martinez the new bullpen coach, can get Piums back. He's only thirty one years old. He has good stuff and especially had good stuff a couple of years ago. It's a worthwhile gamble year. They definitely see something or they wouldn't have done this in November. I'm pretty confident now whether they're right or not.

00:10:38
Speaker 1: Only time will tell. Hell, and you're right. They can object they need to, and that is that flexibility is certainly valuable. All right, Scott, We will have some reactions of our own to the flurry of activity last week, plus our first chance on this podcast to react to the nontender deadline. There was a lot that happened on Friday with the Braves. Procedural stuff most of but certainly a lot of interesting stuff to get into. We'll get into all that and more after a word from a partners.

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00:12:03
Speaker 1: You can't beat that, Okay, Scott quickly. I'm challenging you just to be quick because it's you and I. We don't always quick's. That's just part of the deal with you and I. To talk about baseball. We have that weighed in collectively on the Rycell Iglesias and Mauricio Dubon editions. So where would you like to go first? What did you have a stronger reaction to between those two things? Obviously Rycell was a lot bigger money and was kind of the bigger transaction, But do your's choice and where we go first.

00:12:32
Speaker 2: Let's go with ryceel Iglesias and my take Brad one year sixteen million. I think a week ago we talked about Ricell and we were really just wanting to avoid to have to do like a three year packed in order to get Iglesias. And I think we said like word for word that we would take a two year deal, but anything more than that would be tough to swallow. Sixteen million dollars is a lot, and I fully understand that Iglesias was not great in the first half. But I almost think because maybe some Braves fans weren't tuning in every single night in August and September as the team was just completely dead in the water, maybe folks didn't appreciate just how good Iglesias was down the stretch. I mean, really, from mid June on, this guy was as good as basically any reliever in baseball. It's a one year deal. I like one year deals. It's hard for a one year deal to go completely sideways. And sure, Iglesias it's not as sexy or as fun as a Devin Williams or an Edwin Diaz, but there's there is something to be said for having a tried and true, known commodity in the ninth inning. And that's what Rice Iglesias.

00:13:38
Speaker 1: Is Over the last forty five games last season, he had a one point twenty five ERA and was number two in the National League among relievers. In fangrass war over this episode.

00:13:51
Speaker 2: Really really good.

00:13:52
Speaker 1: He was elite. We won't cover that in deep guy fashion now, but he was. He is on the older side. You're right, maybe we are one year contract pilled a couple of funny responses to our bergency podcasts, like knowing that we were what we were going to kind of say in some respects, but also like, yeah, I'm the one. There's almost one one year deals. If it had been like twenty five million, I'd have been like, all right, that's that's a little that's a little silly, Alex. But other than that, the money doesn't really matter to me that much. It matters a little, of course, but yeah, getting him for a one year Also, this doesn't necessarily tell you everything, but the fact that there were teams in on him that are smart teams. The Dodgers wanted a Glacier's by all accounts, and yeah, they have more money than God, I understand that, but they also are good at evaluating players. So if they saw something I liked obviously it was awesome last year, Like, I feel really good about right sale and maybe it'll be over like believers are volatile, man like, it would not stun me if he was not good this year. That is part of the deal with reliever. By the way, I had the same exact reaction about basically any reliever on the market is that nothing stuns me about which is why runabout way. A one year deal makes a lot of sense for reliever because you don't well, you don't want to have happened. Is given a four year de for reliever and they're cooked in your one That's that's the night per scenario that Sara doesn't exist give. It's not one year contract.

00:15:14
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, the shorter the better with reliever contracts. And now it's a big item checked off. Alexanthopolis is off season to do list. You have the ninth inning figured out. Let's add some more depth to the bullpen and get this group to being much better, more reliable, so we're not rolling out Rafael Montero and Hector Neris and stops stop with Hectors on Yale Anniell de Loo's meatballs. I couldn't watch that guy throw another inning. Let's let's get again. I think there's it's a fine line, Brad. We don't want to pay sixty million dollars for a bullpen next year. I feel like unless the Braves.

00:15:53
Speaker 1: Have way more money than what I was gonna say, unless you have it, unless you're of the I'm sure spending like the top teams. And if you do that, then that's fine. It's it's a percentage of payroll allocation where the Braves have always been on the higher side than I would want to and Rysell this number doesn't change that. I just think that I think he's gonna be good. He was good last year, He's been good for a long time. And Alex Alix kind of was pretty frank about it in his post his post signing comments like he knew they had to get a big ticket reliever, like that wasn't like a big secret they had to do something like that. And Rycell checks that box, like you said, that's a good way to put it. We'll talk about more later on, but that's our reaction collectively. In addition to again listen to what Steven and Sean said as well. A fun podcast, one of the two emergency podcasts from four days ago. The other one is Mauricio Debon, who is It's been funny to hear some of the reactions. I'm not surprised by this, but like, people are really mad for some reason, and I don't really understand why other than I get it if you want to take yourself down the rabbit hole all the way and assume on November whatever it was, nineteenth or twentieth, that the braves are gonna just do nothing else this winter, Like, okay, if you want to be pre mad about that, by all means, I'm not gonna do that. And on the surface, like you tray, Yeah, Nick Allen was awesome. Defensively, you traded Nick Allen for a guy who's better than Nick Allen. That was the transaction in itself, So what's it gonna be mad about? Like sure, in three weeks and three months we might we might be mad about the whole thing, but for now, that was my reaction. It's like, what's the downside here? Like he's just better version of Nick Allen?

00:17:35
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I mean with Mauricio Dubon, I have a hard time seeing it going completely sideways for a couple of reasons, and of course the million dollar question is is he going to be the Braves's full time shortstop or is he going to be You don't know, We don't know, and we probably won't know for some time. But a couple thoughts. I fully get why Alexanthopolis went out and inquired Dubon. It gives him a legitimate shortstop, not an all star, not someone who's gonna run an eight hundred ops, but a player that you, in good faith can say that is our shortstop on opening day. And Dubon is a much better hitter than Nick Allen. Not saying a whole lot, but he is a better hitter than Nick Allen. Secondly, let's say the Braves do go get a shortstop. There is absolutely roles for Dubon. If folks missed it. He has played every position on the baseball field other than pitcher and catcher. He's also right handed, so start to think about this a little bit. He could play second base if Ozzie Albey's is either struggling or maybe he does not come back super strong after another wrist and hand injury. Dubon could also play in the outfield, especially in center field. Now Michael Harris is left handed and he does not hit lefties especially well, so I don't think it's crazy if you're facing a really good left handed pitcher that night and Michael Harris is struggling or is just not going the way we want him to. I could see Dubon playing in center field as well if he has not needed a shortstop basically every night. He can play left field, he can play right field, he can play basically anywhere. And for six point one million dollars, I'm sure the Braves are gonna find a role for him. It also gives Alexanthopolis some leverage and negotiating with other shortstops, and he's just not backed into a corner where we get to February and it's like, oh my god, it's going to be Nick Allen and Vidal Bruhan again, like you can't do that, and again one more time. Mauricio Dubon is not an All Star, but he is much better than those two players combined over the course of one hundred and sixty two games.

00:19:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. I just checked this out to make sure it wasn't crazy. But the last three seasons this is not gospel, but Fangrafs has this value metric where it basically assigns your production to what you have been worth financially. The last three years combined, he's been worth forty point eight million dollars. He's a good player, like is he a star? No, definitely not and perfect world, he is your super utility and the Braves haven't really had that kind of player for a long time. And this is a rat hole. We don't go down all the way today, but one of the knocks on the Braves in some circles, not every circle, but some circles is that all of their guys play all the time and they might get worn down a little bit. And it's a very old school mentality on that front. Now, obviously Matt Olsen plays every day and he never gets hurt, knocked on wood and all that stuff. But like even when guys have been hurt, they've been playing through it. And having someone like Dubon if he is not to your point, the only short stuff you have on the roster, allows for a lot of flexibility. That's just what it is like, playing legitimately every spot. I don't think you want to play first base, probably because the bat is not going to play at first base, but everywhere else I would catcher. He plays well. His splits are like he's actually a decent to good hitter against Latan pitching, like full stop like last year ops seven forty eight for his career two Like I understand that he is not a great hitter overall, he is a legitimately starting caliber hitter against lefty's no matter where he's playing, Like he can play center field to your point and hit that way against Latandan pitching, that's totally fine. And the glove is awesome at all the spots. He's the rare. Most utility guys are like acceptable at all their spots, you know what I mean, They might have one strength that they were the awesome mat The numbers tell you that he's been basically awesome everywhere he's played defensively, Apparently he's just a wizard with the glove, like no matter where, replays.

00:21:49
Speaker 2: Really really good gloves. Some people in Houston were like, legitimately sad, like it's almost a game, like where is Mauricio Dubon gonna make a great play tonight in the lineup.

00:21:59
Speaker 1: Even if you take last season's AWRC plus, which was actually down from previous iteration, he's still a valuable player with AWRC plus he is now he's not awesome, But I I think people underestimate the gap between fifty WRC plus and eighty. That's a massive difference like that, And that's basically Nick Allen and Morissio Dubon to be kind and Nick Allen, that's just what it is. So what else? Keep going on this? But I think that the grand question is unanswered for sure. The other kind of nook in the grand question of is he the short step or not is a monetary one. Because we've said this before a number of times, but there is a way you can have a cheap light hitting not zero hitting like Nick Allen, but light hitting shortstop. And how it makes sense to you if you use the money that you were maybe planning to spend or hoping to spend on has On Kim perhaps and then use that money to wait for Scott actually like get another bat in the lineup, like whether it's an outfielder or a DH or whatever, or it's a trade for somebody or whatever it's gonna be, or starting pitching. But for me more so with the bat, it's a lot easier to sell me and others. I would imagine YouTube I'll let you speak to that if you tell me, okay, Marissa, Deban is my shortstop opening day. My question to you is where did they use the money they saved by shortstop? And if the answer is nowhere, that's a problem. If the answer is they went out and got a outfielder. They can hit fifth in the lineup every day so they can have profar DHHM and acuna DHM and all that stuff. That is an accessible trade off. To me, I'm totally fine with that. I will not be bothered at all if Duban is a shortstop opening day if they actually use the savings. If they don't use the savings, then I'll be mad. Does that make sense?

00:24:00
Speaker 2: Makes total sense? And it is something I have been thinking about four days really since they traded for Dubon.

00:24:06
Speaker 1: Every single minute of every single day since then, Scott's been in deep thought about this, recular.

00:24:12
Speaker 2: That and watching the Colts blow on against the Chief.

00:24:15
Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna bring it up.

00:24:16
Speaker 2: You did it.

00:24:16
Speaker 1: That was your that was your own, that was your own fault. I didn't I know.

00:24:19
Speaker 2: But but so here's where I'm at. Brad. Let's say that Alex Enthopless has fifteen to twenty million dollars to spend on a bat of some kind. It could be Hassan Kim or a different shortstop, although there's basically no shortstops that are actually available and good it's youer lower. You can go get a an outfielder or a DH. For me, I am firmly in the camp of Dubon at shortstop and go get a hitter to DH play the outfield, whatever you do. I think a legitimate hitting asset is more valuable to this team as currently constructed than adding Hassan Kim. Truly, Brad, with the declines and defense that we saw on Hassan Kim last season, if you simmded it a thousand times, and of course we don't have the luxury of simming baseball seasons, but if you simmed it a thousand times with one hundred and fifty starts at Hassan Kim at shortstop and one hundred and fifty starts for Mauricio Dubon at shortstop for the Atlanta Braves in twenty twenty six, I would take the Kim side of being better, but not all that much. Man Like I'm saying, like sixty forty in terms of both offense and defensive value. And I don't think Hassan Kim at this point is worth fifteen to twenty million dollars. I think you add a legitimate bat for fifteen to twenty million to the middle of this order. I think that is so much more impactful than having Kim at shortstop and making Dubon a super utility guy.

00:25:51
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean Dubon, for what we know right now, is the better defender. Pretty clearly. It seems like, yeah, yes, Kim's bet a better hit. But I just double checked this last three seasons combined, So try to get a bigger sample size than just last year. Last three seasons combined, aust On Kim as a one o three dou arsity plus totally fine lee average hitter fine du Bond's eighty eight. And that's a meaningful difference. That matters. But that's not a crazy difference, especially when the guy who's the eighty eight is the better defender. Like on a per game basis, that's fairly similar. You might lean Kim's direction, that's fine, but the gap there is not fifteen million dollars. I promise you that now. I will also say and hope the Braves should spend more than they've spent with last year. They do print money over there at the Battery downtree for me. And there is a world where you could have both. You can you can SaHas On Kim, you can have Mouricio Dubon as you as your super your utility guy like six million dollars and Scott wait for it. You can also get another bet. Yeah, you're allowed to do all three of those things. Now, it wouldn't it wouldn't be a Cody Bellinger bat. I'm not saying I'm not expecting you to be the Dodgers and go sign a forty million dollar BAT on top of Kim and Duban. I'm not saying that that's not realistic. But there is a world financially where you could do Kim at a reasonable number. That's the big distinction, and also still add another BAT. But if it's a bilateral, if it's basically what are the other and again that's a big if it's only one or the other, and you have you give me Kim and Kim and Dubon or Dubon and Bat. I choose Dubon and Bat as well. Yeah, it's not. Again, it may it may not be that. I hope it's not that. As a someone who's observing the Braves and knows how much money they print over there, it shouldn't be that. But if it is that, I would go with the bigger bat than Kim and let Dubon play more. That's my ideas, so.

00:27:57
Speaker 2: It feels more impactful. Yeah, I agree, and we'll see. I mean, Kim is well, Scott Boris likes to drag these things out.

00:28:04
Speaker 1: So it might be March before he signed somewhere.

00:28:07
Speaker 2: I'm not kidding like that. It might be a lot. Seriously, and again, I don't blame Alex Nthopolis for not wanting to play that game of you know, the NCAA tournament is starting and he's still trying to figure out his shortstop.

00:28:18
Speaker 1: And also he knows Okay, it's a small part of this, and maybe it's not all of it, but Alex does tend to even if he's gonna wait a little bit on somebody, he likes to have a contagency plan. And what I said earlier is one hundred percent apply still, like if somebody offers you Mauricey Obond for Nick Allen's straight up, there's no reason to say no to that that trade, Like, no matter what you think about de bond or there's no reason to not do that trade for a.

00:28:48
Speaker 2: Difference of four million dollars is about what it came out to. That's nothing no, and it's.

00:28:54
Speaker 1: You have to do that trade. So there's that angle of it. But there's also the angle of if you I think it might help Alex in the negotiation with us, with Kim as well, maybe a little bit. Hey Scott, you remember how we thought we were totally desperate. We have a real option now. Even if, by the way, Alex may I even believe that, maybe he does, maybe he does not want to have to one shorts. He won't say that out loud. Even if he thought that, he would say it to Boris and be like, look, we don't have to do this anymore. Like you thought you thought we were paying to a corner, we're not anymore. There's some value in that in the negotiation. There's value in just having a guy like this on the roster. It'd be different if he was a one position player, but the utility aspect just adds so much more depth. So we don't have to bang that point over again. But the combination of the shortstop market being kind of barren unless you want to get creative, and like I know you want, I want to. I know you brought up Jordan Lawler in your backyard in Arizona would be an interesting trade target. That was your idea. I want to credit you with that. That's a good idea. I think it's an interesting Bilo like kind of situation flyer. But like the conventional targets at shortstop, it's not a not a deep crop. So to do this kind of deal and give yourself a floor, it just makes so much sense to me. Like I don't I don't understand worrying. I don't say worry about the future of it a little bit, that's fine, but like just analyzing the move itself, there's just like no reason not to do what they did, right.

00:30:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could not agree more. I was nodding along with everything you were saying. This Mauricio Dubon is a usable major league player. It's just a matter of where he is going to play in twenty twenty six.

00:30:32
Speaker 1: That's that's wolplet Scott.

00:30:33
Speaker 3: All right.

00:30:34
Speaker 1: In a second, we'll talk about the non tenor deadline stuff that happened on a Friday. No huge surprises, but some interesting decisions that the Braves made, plus some news on the bullpen and more. After a word from a partner's.

00:30:47
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00:31:12
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00:31:49
Speaker 1: All right, Scott, let us roll through the deadline of the nontender deadline. Stuff that happened on Friday. We were poisoned, ready to record another podcast and then just to be behind the car in a little bit. Nothing was like big enough news for us to do a Friday night episode because nobody's listen on Friday nights. I'm kidding about that, but you know what I mean. It wasn't like there wasn't one thing that was like, we gotta do this, but there is stuff to talk about. So Dubon settled with the Braves, not settled, signing Confident with the Braves six point one million dollars. Eli White also signed, Joya Wentz also signed. All those guys avoided arbitration. White and Wentz got nine hundred thousand dollars each. Reportedly, that is a great value for both those guys, to be honest with you, that's part of the joy of pre arbitration and the arbitration. It's it's cheap for those guys. Jose Suarez I don't know if you saw it. I still haven't seen the reported figure on him signing a contract that the brains announced that deal. I'm sure it's not very much money, so he's cheap as well. Those four got done. Any reactions to any of those things other than they were always gonna be on the team anyway, probably.

00:32:52
Speaker 2: So Yeah, love Eli White and what he does with his speed and ability to run into a home run. I mean, he he has some legit pop in that bat. So happy to have personal too, like not not quite like Dubon, but certainly can play multiple spots which helps. Yeah, and Eli White played some shortstop in the spring, so he's also not an option to play every day, but could stand there in a bizarre eleven inning situation. We uh, you know. I think there's there's absolutely a role for Eli White next year. And then Joey wentz. Good for Joey forgetting a deal. I don't know what the future is gonna hold for him. I mean, if he could be the long man in the bullpen, which is something the Braves probably could use. There's just so much uncertainty with his pitching staff right now, and the handful of guys who were either injured or coming back from injuries that it kind of feels silly to just pass on a Joey Wentz type of pitcher for less than a million bucks. So bring him back and maybe he's in the bullpen or making spot starts or something like that.

00:33:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I mean I would not have him in the rotation or the top seven or eight guys rotation probably, but he can start, he can relieve, he was his stuff was playing up pretty well with the Braves, Like, sure, for a million bucks, sign me up, totally fine. The other one that was that was done was they did a split contract with Fidal Brahan, the aforementioned Aberhan. If you don't know what split contract, split contract is, we got some questions about that. Basically, what it is is that you get a different salary when you're in the majors and the miners, so it's pro raded. You get more than in the majors. Let's wringing the miners. It's like a minor league deal, but a little bit a slightly elevated version. Basically, like that's the short version of what it is that's appropriate for Vanal Brahan the Braves. We made fun of this a little bit last year. Apparently Snicker just seemed to love him, like was just in love with Brahan. He was probably playing too much on the Braves. But he's a like super lower level version of Maurice to Dubon, Like he can play some defense, he can't really hit.

00:34:58
Speaker 2: It's fine.

00:34:58
Speaker 1: He's a major leaguer, just of a fringy one. That's fine. He's Yeah, he's cheap.

00:35:03
Speaker 2: He could be in Gwinette. He could be a bench piece for the Braves. I mean, we'll see. But you know, Bruhan good, I mean, good on him forgetting the split deal. It's a little bit better than a full on minor league contract, as we said. And but yeah, I mean he's gonna get a chance to battle with probably, I mean, the Braves are probably gonna bring six to eight middle infielders to camp and let one of them win the battle. And of course what happens with Mauricio Dubon is also probably going to play a factor into what they do with their bench.

00:35:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, if it was still around, I would be projecting in Bruhan on the opening opening day roster. In the meantime, maybe.

00:35:35
Speaker 2: Not leading off, batting, adding first for the Atlanta Braves batting.

00:35:39
Speaker 1: First play shortstop. Yeah, the other I guess probably the bigger story, even though not I saw some funny reactions. I think people just misinterpreted this. Uh, Dylan Lee did not agree to a deal with the Braves. That is not a huge surprise, Like that's it's the non tendertid line day. That just means you have to decide where an to offer guy contract. There was a zero point zero percent chance the Braids were gonna conten or dulan ly like he was always going to be offered a contract. Yeah he didn't take it. That means they made they go they're gonna go to arbitration or they can still sell it before then as well. Like, it's not a big deal. Dylan Lee will be on the team. He's gonna be still cheap. His projection is one point nine million according to try rumors. That's still cheap. I don't have it else to add other than if you were if you were panicking somewhere, don't. It's not. It's just not a bad thing at all. It's okay.

00:36:31
Speaker 2: Dylan Lee will be on the Braves next season more than likely. I mean, I guess they could trim him.

00:36:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, it could be treated. It would just be an odd decision. Yeah, so that's why.

00:36:41
Speaker 2: And it's crazy, Brad. I mean, if it goes all the way to arbitration and a panel, it's just ridiculous what teams and players fight over. I mean time, Yeah, I mean ninety eight percent of the time I find myself agreeing with the player side of it. You know, they want two million dollars in the braves, you're offering one point nine to five million dollar. It's just like, yeah, you're gonna pay your attorneys and everything more money. Just pay the player. It's just not worth it. But hopefully we don't even get to that point. Yeah, Dunnley's good, he'll be around. The other part of that day on Friday was the non tenders that they did do, and there were two of them. They non tendered Carson Ragsdale, who has been he has the funniest transaction page you'll ever see. He's been in like fifteen transactions in like a month. Like he's just like in this weird back and forth and now he's in phrasing again. I don't know what's going to happen there. The one that actually drew attention was Alec Manoa. So if you didn't, if you were not following. In September, when the Braves were out of it, they brought in Alc Manoa from Toronto, former like top five, say, young silon finisher, like big time starter with the Blue Jays, injuries, in effectiveness, all that, still young, but they it made sense take a flyer on him. But they ended up non tendering him only less than two months later.

00:37:59
Speaker 1: And people ask us why they would have done that. I would say, it's kind of odd, to be honest, like, it's not crazy crazy, but they did. Just this is a famous player by this standard, and they brought him in. Nothing happened, he didn't pitch for them, and then he got non tendered for with a projection of like what two point two million dollars? So what is your best guess on what happened here?

00:38:22
Speaker 2: My best guess is that alex Enthopolis was very bored in the month of September and needed something to do. Maybe, but in all seriousness, I think the Braves took a chance on Manoa. They I'm sure he threw somewhere like through real live pitches, somewhere in front of coaches and scouts and whatever they wanted to do and see if there was anything from Alec Manoa that made sense to Hey, we can take a gamble on this guy, or you know, move your foot two inches on the rubber and it'll you know, you'll you'll start throwing strikes again, or you can move your arm slot and you'll pick up some velocity. I'm sure they tried a few things, but I mean, if Alec Manoa's a fit for a minor league deal in a couple of months as a spring training invite, then sure you could try him out. There's certainly less accomplished guys who are going to get spring training invites with no real money guaranteed. But yeah, I mean, what what was your favorite moment of the Alec Manoa era, other than like the three times we talked about him on this podcast.

00:39:17
Speaker 1: It's gonna say the content the first day that he was that he was signed.

00:39:21
Speaker 2: No, I.

00:39:23
Speaker 1: Because it's he has minor league options. Like I think if they thought much of Alec Minoa, they would have just deferred to keeping him at that modest number and he could have been assigned at Gwinnette or whatever. Like he didn't it's not like Bryce Elder, but there's no options like there would have been. So I suspect you're right. I suspect that they saw some of that that they didn't love behind the scenes, and look, maybe they'll still sign him, but it was just it's just more strange. And if he was not a big name, if he was someone we hadn't heard of, this wouldn't matter. It's just before being honest, it's just if he was carcon Rysdale. We make fun of it, to be honest with you, but uh, we got questions, we answered them. We don't really know and maybe Alex will said I'm sure Ilic will never say anything about it either, Like I just it's not quite at the level where he has to comment publicly about this. It's just like, hey, we didn't do it. Sorry, Okay, that's all we have on the nontender front. There was some other I almost said minor, not really minor, but some some news that Alex made in his comments post everything with Rice Sell and everything else. So apparently Joejamanez, you know you and I actually reacted to this a few days ago when Alex said kind of an odd thing about how Jimenez they wouldn't that basically will know more in January about Jimenez. Were wy, that's interesting, like that's been a long time. Apparently Joeanmennez had another procedure on his knee and we simply didn't know about it. Now our former guest and friend and colleague Grant McCauley said that apparently Alex sure of us on the radio on ninety two nine a little while ago, and like nobody knew. I mean maybe somebody listening knew, but it didn't make the rounds, Like I didn't see it, didn't hear it. Yeah, I'll raise my hand. We missed that one. But this was a surprise to most people. It seemed like when that was said by Alex, it isn't want to change my analysis of what we said last time we talked about Jimenez, which is basically like a big TVD unfortunately, but hey, now we know why he had another procedure.

00:41:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, another knee procedure for Jimenez. My hope is that after a year of rehab, maybe the doctors there was just I don't know, some scar tissue or something in there that they wanted to clean up and and hopefully get that knee healthy and right for Jimenez, because this guy's awesome when he's healthy. But yeah, I mean when Alex just saying, we really don't know what he's going to be like until January February, maybe even the early days of spring training, it's a little hard to plan out your bullpen when arguably the second most talented guy out there is has undergone two knee procedures now in thirteen months and didn't throw a live pitch or a competitive pitch this last year. So fingers crossed on Jimenez. That would be a massive lift for this bullpen. But I mean, it's it is definitely concerning, especially a guy his size. You know, Jimenez is like six three, two seventy. He's a meg old boy, a lot of torque on that knee every time he throws a ball. Let's hope for the best.

00:42:31
Speaker 1: This is not related to Joemenez, but we got a mild back question about this old friend Braves prospect. At one point, Evan Phillips, who became a really good reliever with the Dodgers, like a valuable reliever, got non tendered by the Dodgers, and we were kind of wondering maybe why he had some injury stuff last year. But the Dodgers have more money than God as mentioned before, But after looking it up, he actually was going to get like a lot of money if he got tendered, Like he made six million last year, and it would have presumably gone up in arbitration, so that would be maybe why they didn't tender him. But I say all that to say the question was basically, should the Bravest look at Evan Phillips. Yes, I wouldn't give him a blank check, but certainly a name. But because we already did our kind of wide ranging bullpen preview when you and I last talk last week, I would add Evan Phillips to the list down the list, not high on the list, but a name that like a familiar name if you're a Braves fan and a guy who's been a good reliever recently and is only thirty one years old, Like, yeah, sure, add him to the list of guys that could potentially help. Yeah.

00:43:32
Speaker 2: There were a couple of players who were non tendered over the weekend, and it's like, yeah, I could see it. More of your your bench bats, your fifth outfielder, adult adults, Garcia didn't didn't get you? Yeah, there you go. Yeah that guy man. The Rangers in twenty twenty three were on the heater of all heaters and have just cratered ever since. But speaking of the Rangers, the brand new motory and teased earlier, we can follow Sprintle on that verse second, you know, no more sprinting to first in the National League East. I am just devastated, Brad that we do not have to watch Brandon Neimo the biggest dork. He's a good player, but he's like the biggest dork ever. He's infuriating. I know Mets fans love him. He's I didn't realize Neimo has been like not only with the Mets since twenty sixteen, but it's been like a good contributing player. If you would have asked me, I said, oh, he's been around since like twenty twenty, twenty twenty one. No, he's going up on a decade. Was I believe the longest tenured Met? So yes, what a what a interesting trade. I kind of like buy and low on Marcus Simon if I'm the Mets and his defense is still really good and he underperformed some bad at ball stuff last year, but again big time contracts, a rare one for one player swap of players making big time money veteran players estaff Brandon Nimo also waived his no trade clause to go from New York to Texas. So this was a big deal, kind of out of nowhere, and I guess we'll, you know, no more. I guess we'll see Nimo for three games, but other than that, no more sprinting to first base, although when he struck out, he walked back to the dugout, So I never understood that dynamic with Nemo, but I am not heartbroken to see him gone.

00:45:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all we need to do on that. But yeah, it was an interesting challenge trade. There was the other more not like lower level money challenge trade with that Grace Rodriguez Taylor word deal that was a cheaper version of this one. But this is a yeah, an expensive challenge one for one. You don't often to see those. So that was it'll be fascinating and hopefully some may doesn't get right for the Mets, because I don't root against the guy individually, but the Mets are a team we don't like pretty much. Yeah, on this podcast, last thing we'll shift something wants to add there was a somewhat an update on Grant Holmes, So if you've forgotten this, Grant Holmes has a partial UCL tear in his throwing arm, partial being the keyword there. They have chosen not to have surgery, and apparently, according to what Dave o brien reported, the Braves are quote really encouraged by the rehab for Grant Holmes. Clearly we won't know until he really ramps it up in March, but there's at least a window and Grant Holmes, look, Grandholes has been good for the Braves. If he is healthy enough to pitch in March and April without having surgery, he'll be on the team somewhere. Either he'll be the fifth starter or he'll be the long man or something like. Grandholmes is clearly a good enough pitcher to be on this team if he's healthy. So obviously, just beyond the everything else with the baseball side, you want the guy to have no pain and not have have to have surgery. But like baseball wise, it would be a very big help for the Braves if they had Grant Holmes making peanuts available for them to in whatever role they choose.

00:46:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Grant Holmes and Ronaldo Lopez, two guys who had serious injuries last season. Both of them were needle movers, whether it's in the rotation or in the bullpen. So fingers crossed, let's get Homes healthy this through, you know, as he continues to throw this off season and then building up strength. And same for Lopez who had the shoulder scare. Two very important pictures for the Braves. And I mean I kind of think that at least one of them, if healthy or going to be in the bullpen. And maybe that's kind of Alex's calculus as he's in the early days of the offseason kind of thinking about who he's going to have available.

00:47:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, as much as we are fond of saying on the show that you need more than five starters, because you do, you probably only open the season on the active roster with five or six starters. So if you have more than that, somebody's gonna be in the bullpen on opening day. And it might be one of those guys that thought. Both of those guys, there's a world of war which they're both in the bullpen, I would probably guess that one of them.

00:47:38
Speaker 2: Is not I mean, if they go out and sign a legitimate starting pitcher or trade for a legit starter. You got sale Schwellenbach, Strider, Waldrip and one of them in the new edition. I mean you yeah, I mean I think you The Braves could go to a six man rotation to start the year, but then your bullpen is pretty thin. I don't know if they want to do that. It's all, you know, it's a conversation. Well, frankly, we'll probably do a full yes in February when the boys show up for spring training. But yeah, it's all. I mean, let's man, I would be crushed if grand Holmes needs Tommy John because that would cost him a full year. For a guy who's in his thirties and absolutely paid his dues to get to the major leagues, for him to have a really good year and a half and then blow out his elbow would be would be you know, on a personal level, I would feel bad for Grant.

00:48:26
Speaker 1: Oh, I totally agree, and hopefully that does not happened. But in all the positives that they can't that they can have so far for Grant are positive. Yeah, everyone understands the deal. The real hurdle is can you ramp up and pitch on this. You know, no surgery rehab. But if you go day by day, week by week, if you're just checking the boxes until you get there, that's a good thing. And obviously it was good enough where that was somebody's told dB that. I don't know if it was Alex or somebody said that aloud. Good news if nothing else, Yeah, all right, all right, Scott, that's a a news and notes ish. Oh, the Braves have a lot more to do. They've also been very busy in the last week, so we're back into the kind of holding game. Thanksgiving is sometimes an interesting time for baseball, and that that actual window of Thanksgiving day ish, it's probably gonna be very quiet. Most teams, just like are probably on vacation, as it should be. In the meantime, there is a few more days before that, as we're talking on Sunday night into Monday. So hold on tight, everybody. But if anything happens, we'll have a show. It might be a scramble on our phones episode from Thanksgiving Dinner, but we'll have something for you if anything happens. Anything else you like to talk about, Scott, If not, I will not ask about football today. I've been I've been trying to set you up in a positive direction about football all year long, not today.

00:49:48
Speaker 2: Thank you, Brad, a man of kindness and the highest class.

00:49:52
Speaker 1: The Falcons one today which is I mean, the season's over in every way, but I hate the Saints with a firing passion, so being the Saints is always a win.

00:49:59
Speaker 2: Nice, there you go. Sometimes it's just nice to win one and have a good Sunday. But no, I mean, I again, I want to say happy early Thanksgiving to everyone. We will plan to have a show or two on the feed this Thanksgiving week, so keep an eye out on that. Maybe you're traveling, flying, driving across the country, so yeah, we'll have content for you to help kind of bridge the gap. And as always, whenever the Braves do make a move, we always have a show with that day to break it all down.

00:50:26
Speaker 1: Yes, please subscribe to Hammer Territory anywhere you get your podcasts, and importantly, if you're already subscribed, thank you so much. Tell your friends Thanksgiving, Tell your family. I know people in my own life who are Braves fans who don't listen to the podcast, and I yell at them, like guys, if you want to support me, that'd be cool. Or if you like the Braves who listen to the show when I'm not on it, if you want listen to me, that's fine as well. But I promise you probably know some way in your life that's a Braves fan that's never heard of our podcast. If you will do us a solid and tell them about it, that would be awesome.

00:50:57
Speaker 2: This is what you do, Brad. You're sitting at the Thanksgiving dinner with your family, your extended family, and maybe a conversation or two starts to happen. You go, Nope, we're not going to talk about this. What we're going to talk about at the Thanksgiving dinner table is the Hammer Territory Podcast.

00:51:13
Speaker 1: What I was gonna say is what we're not gonna talk about today. Instead, we're gonna listen to Sean Coleman right now, and you just press play on your phone and you just listening to Welcome You start just full on the short.

00:51:24
Speaker 2: Divert any conversation you don't want to have with your with your family or extended family, start playing the podcast right there at the dinner table. Your Grandma's gonna throw a role at you or something like that. But it would be worth it and help us spread the good word about the pod.

00:51:38
Speaker 1: Or if you're watching football as I look, I will be too. On Thursday or Friday or whenever, you could just mute the football and listen to Sean and Stephen or listen to us. And that's better, way better than like I mean, try to see who's doing the games. It's way better than Too and Collinsworth. Come on, we don't need to hear about those guys. Tom Brady want me to listen to Tom Brady?

00:52:01
Speaker 2: What is that? I would like to see Tom Brady do three to four Braves podcasts every single week, Brad, I.

00:52:05
Speaker 1: Would look to that too. If Tom wants to come on, listen. Tom was a baseball player at one point, like he was a good baseball player. I think he was drafted to the draft. Come on down, Tom, you're open invite. They'll never go to us in a million years, but if you want to come on the podcast, feel free. Okay, Scott, thank you for being here. Please follow Scott Coleman if you'd like to do that on social media at Scott Coleman. Fifty five. Lots of Arizona basketball right now. They're good By the way, you're wildcats spare down if you want to follow me at bt Rowland, follow the show more importantly at Hammer Territory on Twitter, Instagram. Not to talk yet. Maybe maybe one day we'll be on TikTok one Stephen takes over social media team. But one more time, one more plea, Apple, Spotify, YouTube ratings reviews, all that fun stuff. Appreciate your being here, Havy. Thanksgiving in an early fashion, and we'll see everybody next time.