Crossover: Hammer Territory and Mets'd Up React To Braves Win

00:00:00
Speaker 1: None of us want Monday. Nobody wants Monday on either team, either podcast, either fan base. No one wants to deal with Monday, basically, and you know it may not be Winner Take All by then, Welcome to a crossover edition of a podcast featuring Hammer Territory and metst up you would imagine in the middle of a big time playoff atmosphere kind of series. Half of this podcast is happy. Half of this podcast is not as happy. That was gonna be the way it went, no matter what the result was on this Tuesday evening with the Brims gonna five to one win. My name is Brad Roland. I am part of Hammer Territory alongside Steven Tolbert. Hello Steven, we talk all the time.

00:00:44
Speaker 2: How are you, Brad? How's it going?

00:00:47
Speaker 1: I'm good? And the messed up guys are here, Mark and James.

00:00:53
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:00:53
Speaker 4: I mean I was really hoping this is going to be a little bit different, different of a post game reaction coming from us, but you guys really handed it to us. It was not a good game by the Mets in almost any facet of it, and that.

00:01:07
Speaker 3: Was That's a tough way to start the series.

00:01:09
Speaker 4: With the context that we have of the Mets and the Braves late in September didn't love that.

00:01:13
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like gu I said, you figured to be something, Marcus said, figured to be something different. But the worst part about every Mets fan watching this game is that this feels like very much more of the same. And now I think that those feelings were a little bit pervasive before this game, but every Mets fan was like, no, this is different. We don't want to think those thoughts again. And now because of the way this game started, because of the way this game ended, that is the front of mind. I can speak for basic every single Mets fan right now. That's all I can think about. I'm sure it's all Mark and think about any Mets fan watching this and listening to this can think about right now, and that is a horribly unscary thought.

00:01:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's RECs from from the Braves perspective. You know, all year long we've said if this team scores, they win, and you know, they've got one of the best here in the second best era in baseball. As a team, they struggled all year being able to score runs, and when they score, they win. And they scored five runs tonight and you know, the pitching was outstanding like it normally is. And it really is that simple for them. If they score three, four or five runs in a game, they win the game typically, and so that's the key for them. And obviously they took care of business tonight.

00:02:22
Speaker 1: On the vibe side of things, Uh, I had I had that thought that you guys might say that about how them this the Mets feel give given the recent history, I will say, you know, coming in, the pressure is all on the Braves, right the deficit is what it is. I know that maybe it doesn't feel that way to the Mets having been in the position they've been in the last couple of years, but they're kind of in the driver's seat here and the Braves have to win. The Braves have to win these games or they're just going to be dead. That's going to be the stakes for them. And you know, the famous adage is like you can't make a statement and can't swep a series unless you win game one. They won game one, but it's still I mean, we'll get into it later, I'm sure, but the pressure is kind of still on the Braves. It even there's kind of a comfortable win in some respects the Mets are still the team ahead. The Mets are still in control of this thing to at least some extent, even if I'm sure judge by the reaction from Mark and James, it does not feel that way necessarily on a Tuesday.

00:03:10
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:03:10
Speaker 4: No, I got to give a little shot to my cousin Ted. He we were texting during the game, and he was saying, how this Mets team all year is kind of played with house money. They've been playing a lot loose, feels like they got nothing to lose because there was no expectations. Tonight was the first time, at least in my opinion and my cousins as well, where it felt like the Mets felt the pressure. It felt like the Mets knew they had something to lose, where these previous games playing the Phillies and everybody else that were doing a lot of chasing, even chasing the Braves and the Diamondbacks and the Padres at some point, But now this game against the Braves, it felt like things in their brain at least for a little bit changed where they started to feel the pressure more than they have all year, and that is not something I was hoping to see tonight.

00:03:52
Speaker 5: I also think that weirdly, the Mets off day they had yesterday on Monday killed them because this Mets team haf been playing dad day after day. I think it was just what like fourteenth straight days or seventeenth straight days they had the game and they had to deal with the Lindor injury and Stride, they had to deal with everything happening in Stride those blown saves last weekend against the Phillies and this last seven straight days of City Field. It was just momentum, momentum, momentum. There was no thinking. There was just playing next day at bad that bad picture and now similar building off of Mark said, like there was a moment of thought and like this moment of like really like oh wow, we're really doing it really in this spot. Maybe possibly a little bit of like reading the press clippings. I know Mark and I probably read the press clippings too. Oh we kind of were some of the press clippings the other day where and it's just like now the realization happens. You're like, Okay, now this is like the ultimate moment. You have to dig deep because Chris Sales on the mound the next game. Whenever it happens and you have to basically win it to secure all the good things that happened this season.

00:04:48
Speaker 2: Well, and that's the fascinating part of this series is that we don't know when the next game is gonna be played. I mean, there's a hurricane. There's a hurricane coming at some point in the next two days, and so winning game one, I mean game two might not be till like Monday. We really we have no idea when game two of the series is gonna be. So getting off Turt. Winning Game one was was you know, for the Braves, of course, it was just of massive importance. I mean, they could not afford to lose Game one. Honestly, it was I agree with Brad. It was way more important of game for the Braves, probably than the Mets. Even that side. I know they're dealing with a lot of demons. They're dealing with twenty twenty two and all the bad thoughts that came from that series. But just from the standing standpoint, the Braves had to have this game. I mean, they just they had to have this game.

00:05:36
Speaker 3: I know, you guys were talking about that.

00:05:38
Speaker 4: It feels like it's the pressures on the Braves and you can see mine and James's reactions to everything that's being said, and we're just so incredibly a ball of stress right now.

00:05:46
Speaker 3: Is because we felt on Sunday night.

00:05:48
Speaker 4: Because it's completely gone right now, it does not feel the same you guys, like you guys just do this to us all the time. So do you actually feel any pressure, because it doesn't feel like you do at all.

00:05:58
Speaker 2: No.

00:05:59
Speaker 1: I will say it's been and I know you guys want to don't want to hear this. It's been a very angsty Brave season, like throughout. I know they've been in kind of decent shape the whole way, but all the injuries they've had, like it's been like nothing has gone right for the Braves all year long. So it may not feel like it's supposed to be angsty, but it's been really angsty all year and coming into this like they've been playing really well recently as well, like it doesn't feel like they probably should be with their roster, but they keep winning series. Then you look at the standings and they've lost ground in the last six weeks to the Mets and the Diamondbacks because they've been playing so well. As you guys know, the Mets have been so hot for so long that it Braves like Canna. They can't seem to make up any ground. So they kind of came in like we all know the deal here. The Braves have to win a series, so they're going to be going home. So yeah, there's some pressure, but I guess once you could take a three nothing lead and you kind of realize it's the Mets and all the all the recent history kind of seefs in. I'm sure maybe we had a little bit of reaction, but I don't know about Steven. I didn't feel good about this one until it was five nothing, and even then, like nothing is safe in a high stress game. It's baseball. You guys knows how this is. It's like until the final out, no exhaling, and even then it's like, oh, by the way, they got to do this again tomorrow. Well maybe tomorrow, maybe doubleheader, Monday, whatever, it's gonna be, like guys said, but no matter what happens, it's like, all right, they got one, now they have to get the next one. Whereas the Mets kind of have a little bit board.

00:07:13
Speaker 2: I didn't sit down to watch a pitch until Jimenez came in in the eighth inning. That was the first time I actually sat on my couch to actually watch a pitch. So no, I never I never felt good about this game until it was until the game was over, quite howso. And and in terms of like stress, it is funny, like relative to expectations, because you know, the Mets, I feel like the Mets are playing with house money a little bit because no one really expected them to win anything this year. This was always going to be kind of a bridge year for them. You know, they went for big and twenty three it didn't work. They kind of you know, spun it back a little bit. And you know, for the Braves that the expectation is always to win a World Series, even with the injuries. You might think with the injuries that that changes. But like for the fan base, especially when you have the you know, basically the number one staff in baseball and have all year, like, the expectation is at the very least to make the playoffs. And so yeah, I mean, our stress level has been through the roof for most of the season and it hasn't helped that. The Diamondbacks, the Padres, and the Mets I've been like the three hottest teams in baseball since the All Star break, like Brad' said, with the Braves have been able to gain no ground despite playing really well for about six weeks, and that's just added to the stress. So yeah, Braves fans have been I would say highly stressed over the last well all year really, but especially over the last six weeks or so.

00:08:31
Speaker 1: But you know this too, like not just to finish that thought, I we all, we've all been circling this Mets series for six weeks probably I'm sure you guys have too. It's like, all right, it's probably gonna come down of this to this series in late September. We all kind of understand that. And if if the teams are close, everyone has this big red circle on this series, So that maybe I guess swings a little bit of the of the vibes of this thing. Because no matter what happened with the Braves totally collapsed, it was going to be a chance this week and winning game one of the series. That kind of I guess it proves that change.

00:09:01
Speaker 5: And it was even only until our big winning streak two weeks ago where we actually got to have you guys in the standings consistently, like we have been weirdly chasing you like you talk about all we've been playing so well in can't g ground. That's how fell from our perspective for the last three full months. The Mets have the best record in baseball since June first, The Mets have the fifth best record in baseball since the All Star break, and we're still like, how could we be a game and a half behind the Brave, still like, thankfully we won the nine out of ten last week, and then we just won the six out of seven this week, so like, okay, we're head by two games, but those two games felt monumental compared to where the rest of the season has been. How these National League wild card standings have shaken out through the second half.

00:09:36
Speaker 4: And I think it's also important for Mets fans too, like a little bit of heat check because again we're nervous, we're stressed again, deja vu, PTSD, whatever you want to call, like we're having it right now. But this team really has stepped up a lot all year. There's been a lot of big games for this team. There's been a lot of times me and James have said there must win games way earlier in the season.

00:09:56
Speaker 3: The Mets step up. They do it.

00:09:57
Speaker 4: Not that our opinion really matters on what it must when game is or not, but this team has.

00:10:02
Speaker 3: Stepped up before. Schwellenbach is like a good pitcher.

00:10:05
Speaker 4: I think a lot of times too people get caught up in the narrative of a rookie pitcher pitching in a big game. You don't find out these guys are dogs until they actually step up in those moments. This is schwellenbax big moment. He stepped up severo did not for us. The offense completely crumbled for the Mets in tonight's game. But at the same time, like once in a while you can tip your cap and like they beat us. There's nothing that the Mets did in this game that gave me the apparent appearance of what like Mets fans like to say, like the choke. Besides just simply not hitting, like five runs is a game that you can win. This was a winnable game from the pitching side of things. It was just the bats got shut down because Swellenbach was just simply better.

00:10:42
Speaker 5: He was, and he seemed to get better as the game went on, like as you guys built the lead, like it seemed like he was growing stronger and stronger. And last time we finished Swellenbach that Saturday in citney Field, he was good differently because he was just Slyly after Slyther and everybody was swaying and missing. This one he was so comfortable with to lead. He was like, hit it, hit it, hit it. You guys played great defense. I was watching the roommate who watches three baseball games a year, maybe if that, and he's like, the Brace have really impressed me with their defense. I was like, shut up, don't don't say these things out louding where I'm doing with this. But like the Mets were hitting the ball well. The two three, four and five hitters combined for oh for doing the quick math fifteen for the Mets. But brand Nemo had three hard hit balls. Mark Fianzez hit that home run, hit another ball on the cruise. Nemo hit that ball down the line, And that was the seventh or eighth where if Alsen doesn't get the glove on there, you're suddenly looking at second and third, one out of the hard of the Mets lineup, looking coming up in a four three run games. It's like it.

00:11:32
Speaker 2: That's when I stood back up there you.

00:11:33
Speaker 5: Go exactly, because it felt like it was tense for those moments, but even as the game weirdly, I think it felt out of reach for Mets fans. In a much more real sense, it wasn't that out of reach. We just couldn't really muster up anything. We couldn't string hits together. We only four hits in general in this game. You can't win a game of four hits when you have the team has five runs. You can't do it.

00:11:50
Speaker 2: Let me let me ask you guys something the Mets guys, so like, from my perspective, it feels like it's a it's like a house money year for the Mets, Like because I didn't expect them to do much. Most people didn't expect them to do much. They got off to that horrible start. I think you guys were like eleven games under five hundred and like the early part of June or something like that. A lot of people kind of wrote you guys off, and I'm one of them. To be honest, I wasn't thinking about the Mets at all. So from your perspective, from Mets fans perspective, does it still feel like like a house money year? Or is it the fact that you're already here and now in the playoffs, like expectations have flipped.

00:12:24
Speaker 3: You got to ask me that in November. I can't answer that question Seceember.

00:12:28
Speaker 4: Yeah, because right now the crazy Mets fan brain is telling me. As much as this season has been surprising and better than we expected, I'm still gonna be heartbroken if we don't make the postseason Like this, this season has been so great, it has to end with the postseason birth. It has to end with some sort of runs. It would leave a bad taste in our mouth for what overall, like for the grand scheme of the Mets in their future, would be a successful good season. But I'm also tired of saying that, and I would like an actual successful good season for once. It's it's tough to answer. On September twenty fourth.

00:13:02
Speaker 5: I'll be way more dramatic than Mark because we've tasted the forbidden fruit over these last few months. Now like we've been in a playoff spot again, the best record in the baseball since June first, it would now totally flip and the expectations have now overcome me, and I think I would be very disappointed if this team didn't, especially because, like we opened with it all, we always knew for three straight months it was coming down to this exact series against the Braves in Atlanta. Three games against the Braves in Atlanta. The Braves are missing most of their best players. There's not much of excuse right now. On paper, you probably very much have a better team. Not definitely, not better pitching, definitely, not a better bullpen, but one through nine you should really be able to hit with these guys. And the fact that this is how they showed up after the first games, it's really hard not to get these horribly terrifying flashbacks.

00:13:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, before we talk a little bit more, because obviously there's a few more games to talk about too coming up, and some more little itty bitty details.

00:13:53
Speaker 3: Let's run a quick break and we'll be right back.

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00:14:57
Speaker 1: All right, we are back as part of this on going crossover edition of hemmorh Territory and mets Stuff. Please go ahead and subscribe to both of these podcasts. Even if you want to hate listen to one of them, which is probably the majority of both audiences. You can support us by supporting our fellow follat Territory guys. So even if it just feels dirty. I get it, but go ahead and do it for us. It would be very much appreciated. I guess we could keep going on the rest of the weekend. I know we kind of mentioned the potential of the weather. Should we talk about the weather for a second, because like, it's really a chance to like ruin everything, and I feel terrible about that, and I would I would even if the bridge had lost tonight. I would still say the same thing. But there's a chance, like Thursday might be a total washout with the way the projections are and Wednesday if they don't get the game in when it's supposed to start. We joked about it earlier, but it William could be like a double header on Monday, and nobody wants that, especially because even if it's the team that wins it in that instance, if it's a battle for one playoff spot, et cetera, they gotta turn on and play on Tuesday in a three game series when you just had to like go absolutely, forgive this, forgive this speech, balls to the wall on Monday and a doubleheader for your season and then play on Tuesdays. Like nobody wants to do that on either side. I'm very sure. So, I mean, I'm not sure what the even the takeaway is other than just like pray for no rain at least for one of these like gotta get one of these two games in right once.

00:16:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're looking at what eighty one percent rain at seven pm, ninety nine percent rain at eight o'clock, seventy seven at ten ninety eleven for tomorrow.

00:16:28
Speaker 3: It doesn't sound like we're playing baseball. You know, I went to school in the South.

00:16:32
Speaker 4: It rains a little bit different down there, and I think a hurricane might be a little bit different than the normal rain we're used to during a baseball game the occasional times. Doesn't seem like these games are gonna happen, which is probably the worst.

00:16:43
Speaker 3: That can happen for the Mets right now. I think, I don't know.

00:16:45
Speaker 4: I hate the idea of the doubleheader on Monday, That to me is taking a nightmare and just extending in another week longer.

00:16:52
Speaker 3: I don't want that.

00:16:53
Speaker 5: There's also this weird question, now, what would each of these teams do this weekend? Like are you holding back some pitching? Because I like, let's say the next schedule started for the Mets is David Peers and then would be Sean and Iya in the last game of this series. Do you not pitch those guys on Friday because you want both of them to pitch on Monday? Like how do you handle us? And the Braves are supposed to pitch Sale on Wednesday and then Max Free on Thursday? Like how like this? Both team still need to win the games that they'll be playing, but then also the game against each other could wind up being the most important, and you're on less time And I don't know where the Braves pitching depth right now is. I know it's not tremendous all the injuries guys had the Mets isn't that great either behind the five guys who've been pitching every fifth day for them, And even that kind of gives me some odd of that as well, So like where do you how much do you hold back?

00:17:36
Speaker 3: Then?

00:17:37
Speaker 5: Are guys taking a full week off before they go on the mound. This would be a once in a lifetime thing for all of these managers and players here to wait and see how the strategy will be for a possible tie breaking double.

00:17:47
Speaker 2: Heather Well, the interesting thing for the Braves is that they held Sale back for tomorrow's games. So originally the conversation in Braves Country was do you pitch Sale on Tuesday tonight's game so that he can pitch on Sunday in a game one sixty two scenario where you needed that game to win to make the playoffs. They didn't do that. They held him back for Wednesday's game, which is now interesting because if you have to play Monday, that means Sale for the Braves would be available on normal rest to pitch a Monday game. So, you know, the team and the manager and everybody in the organization. Quite honestly, they caught a lot of flak for not having Sale pitched tonight because now you know, obviously when he pitches in this series, it's going to be the last time he pitches. And funny enough, if the season gets extended to Monday, then that's not the case, then Sale could very much pitch on Monday. So I think, listening to you guys, my guess is the Braves are a little better set up for that potential of having to play on Monday because Sale would be available on regular rest to do it. And also they have Ronaldo Lopez who's supposed to come off the il Thursday, who could also potentially pitch a game. So if they had to pitch both of those guys, say they had to play double Hearon on Monday, which is obviously is the night mer scenario, they could potentially pitch both of those guys on Monday on normal rest. So I think the Braves are probably a little better set up for that eventuality than the Mets are. But nobody wants. I mean, I have tickets for Tomorrow's game, so like, I really really don't want that canceled. But the weather is just abysmal.

00:19:25
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's fully opposite of the Mets because if we play tomorrow but they get rained down on Thursday, then you guys miss manayah, And if we play Monday, I'll pitch on Friday, so you would wind up missing him completely. So we'll get your best pitcher twice and you will never see our best pitcher. So yeah, and the dirty nightmare scenario for the.

00:19:40
Speaker 1: Mets, and the dirty secret is the Braves I believe, even including today, are five hundred when Chris Sale does not pitch, and twenty two and seven when he does for the season, So essentially they are as average as could be without Chris Sale and pretty awesome when Chris Sale, which is logical he's the say young front runner, it's like that that's a huge secret. But they've been pretty pretty mediocre when he's not pitching, and that's we referenced it earlier with Schwellenbach being so good today, and I'm sure Steve and I weren't so were terribly surprise. He's been nails for most of this season. But still it was the biggest part of his life and he goes out there, especially given the mostly local controversy but still local controversy about not pitching Sales tonight. It makes you look a lot better when your rookie goes out there and throws seven to one run innings against a competent offense. So, like, I don't know if maybe the brands will be proven right. I actually candidly didn't like it, and I said as much on the show. If Sale was healthy, I would have pitched him today. But it looks like that's gonna work out at least for the short term. But I mean, the weather talk is boring. It does matter. We had to do it. We didn't want to talk about the weather, but it's like it. Really. If it wasn't a hurricane, it wouldn't be a story. But it's a hurricane, so here we are.

00:20:46
Speaker 4: The one thing that would help with the weather is that hopefully Francisco Lindor would be able to then play into out of the games in this series, because the way that he looked walking in today. I caught a lot of flak on Twitter for saying he looks stiff, but he didn't even come in the game, so I mean he might still be a little stiff. A back injury serious at least, that's my silver lining. If they were to play a doubleheader on Monday, Francisco Lindor, that's the best chance he has to probably play the rest of the year. Would be a game two games on Monday, and they would arguably be the two most important games of the series. There's also like the weird thing going on right now, and you mentioned like Schwellenbach being picked for the Mets, and just like managerial decisions getting undermined or talked about a little bit, Mendoza has been a guy who's been moving people around so much today. And I don't know if you guys know as much as Braves fans but US Mets fans seeing Starling Marte hitting third, coming up twice with men on base, multiple men on base, and having some of the worst at bats possible that we've seen really discouraging, especially because, like we said, we had opportunities of time to get back into this game and just kind of let it off the hook.

00:21:49
Speaker 5: Yeah, it just doesn't really seem to make sense for the mess perspective, but they continue to do it, not only hitting him in prominent spots in the order consistently, even though again he's played this year, not hit for much power and not really hit well at all in general recently, and then also continues to playing him in the outfield. I understand that Jesse Winker is a is a bit of an adventure in the outfield. You don't want to play him there either. The Mets have an embarrassment of riches that specifically designated hither but that throw home from Marte in the third inning allowed the Braves to get extra bases was ill advised. It wasn't close to getting out Michael Harris, who has amazing speed at home on that single That from Albi's was just it was kind of a compounding of issues for Marte like overall game after as this game went on, play after play, where again speaking from marketized perspective and other Mets fans in their lives, like it just didn't really ever seem like he was someone that was ready to make a big gamepack in this game and multiple times who's thrust into being one of the most quintessential players in it.

00:22:42
Speaker 1: What's that saying the ball finds you, the ball always find like I mean, for a Braves fans perspective, Sure, people yelling at their at their phones right now listening to us, it's been Orlando RCA for the Braves for the last like two weeks. Who's probably their worst hitter. It feels like every time they have a big ad bad it's him, and he's been a disaster. So we identify with you in solidarity on that one.

00:23:01
Speaker 2: Suppose at least I'll say this about sever Reno. I didn't think he actually pitched as bad like that one inning where he got away from him. It was a swinging bunt by Orlando that ended up as an error. I'm not even sure the air was his fault. His catcher got in the way as he was trying to throw it. And then you know, Michael hit a rope double that was a real hit. But then after that, like Ozzie had a broken bat, little ground ball single, Loreano had a broken back ground ball single. You know, he didn't get like crushed. You know, Michael came back and hit the homer off of that after that. But I don't know, I didn't think sever I thought Severino looked better and pitched better than maybe his line is gonna end up. You know, it looks like he gave up four runs and four innings and didn't pitch great. I will say the Braves did a really good job of getting his pitch count up. They laid off a lot of those sweepers, which to me was the key to the game. The Braves have so many right handed, right handed hitters in their lineup that I was really worried about that sweeper. That fastball sweeper combo just devastating them all night long, and they were They were able to lay off it quite a bit tonight, and he got his pitch down up. He was at like eighty something pitches in the fourth inning. I thought that was I actually thought that was a bigger key to the game than the couple the runs the Braves scored, because again I don't think sever Reno pitched as bad as maybe some of those hits made it look.

00:24:17
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, we kind of got a Spencer Strider there a little bit. We got a couple couple of soft hits that dropped like he didn't have his command. And I'm sure James will give us some more numbers here on, like his whiffs and stuff like that. But overall wasn't a good start, but it also wasn't a bad start, if that makes any sense.

00:24:35
Speaker 5: Yeah, this has kind of been the issue with sever Reno, not the issue because he's had a tremendous season. He's been one of the reasons, the main reason that's even in this position. But I'm saying this to Mark and on our show for a few weeks now, Severrino, just as we got to this point in the season, has no bag against the lefties. And I could feel immediately in that first that bat of the game to Michael Harris, it was he had him down one two immediately and it got to be like an eight to nine pitch at bat, and it was just fastball after fastball after fastball. He didn't really seem to trust any of his other pitches against the lefties. He even threw one change in this game, and overall, he only threw three pitches that weren't forcing fastballs to lefties the entire game, and two of those three came against Michael Harris. And one of those three was a cover that Keith Hernandez lamented on the broadcast, didn't cut it all, just spun right up the top of his own and that was the one Harris laced for the double for the first run of the game. So while again it felt like Seavy got babbitped a lot, that that hit by Lariano, I'll never I'll never comprehend to that ball made to the outfield, rolling off his bat, kind of hitting it twice, but in fact that he's hit. Yeah, this happened the Mets Phillies game last weekend too, and Citizens Bank Park, where by the time Severgno got to his third that back against Bryce Harper, he just he seemed to have nothing left. Harper homard off the change up, throw one more change up the rest of that game, and then he's just kind of stuck throwing these fastballs over and over and over against the lefties, and if you can't put those in precise spots against this caliber of hitters, which he couldn't, and these hithers are great. Eventually, guys are gonna ful pitches off like Harris did over and over again. Olsen did too in that first rally until you get that hit, and it's just it was exactly what happened. It was exactly because I was terrified love.

00:26:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, it was.

00:26:02
Speaker 4: It was definitely not the best for Severino. Of course, Michael Harris being one of those lefties you couldn't get out. I'll let the Braves guys talk about him a little bit more, but first we have another quick break.

00:26:11
Speaker 3: We'll be right back.

00:26:12
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00:27:12
Speaker 3: So.

00:27:12
Speaker 1: Going into the break, we were listening you guys talking about Michael Harrison so and Michael Harris. I don't even I guess you could argue Swallow Black versus Harris as to who was the hero of the game in this one. They were probably one A in one B. But Michael Harris has been basically out of his mind for about two weeks and unfortunately for the Mets, that kind of came to fruition in this one. He has five hote runs in the last seven games. He was three for three tonight to open the game and he had the fantastic diving catch in the fifth inning that was kind of like a hat tip moment as the best guys shake their heads as I'm saying this, But no, I mean, and look, the Braves have had this up and down, weird season as far as like who's been hot, who's not been and they're so banged up, all those things that we talked about a number of times. But it's been Matt Olson at at the forefront and Michael Harris is now like basically being their second star last couple of weeks. I don't know what you've seen, Steve, but it feels like that's a game changing thing for Atlanta in the moment, and the timing of that is obviously very nice considering how good he was tonight.

00:28:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, our fans will know. We've talked about this all year that Matt Olsen is the key to this team because they have so many right handed hitters and right handed pitching can be a real problem for them. That's why I was worried about Severino tonight because they're just so right handed, and Matt Olsen has had an up and down year. He's certainly not had the year he had last year, but he's been red hot for about two months, and then Michael Harris has been red hot for about two weeks now, and those being the two basically only two lefties in the Braves lineup, those guys are critical against guys like Savarina. Like you said, guys like him have trouble with lefties. But the Braves just don't have a ton of lefties. You know, Jared Kelnick has had a really disappointing second half. He's basically been benched for Ramon Loreano, who's a right hander. So the only two lefties the Braves had. Ozzy Obviy's is back, but he's only betting right handed, So literally the only two lefties the Braves have are Michael Harris and Matt Olsen. And so when they play a guy like Severino, who who can struggle with lefties, at the time, they're critical, and tonight I thought they were, you know, I thought they had some of the best at bats in the game, Michael Harris specifically. You know, when those those two guys go, and again, the people that listen to our show, we talked about this all year, especially Matt Olsen, when those guys go, the Braves are just so much more balanced. They can hit righty's as well as they hit lefties. And tonight was you know, tonight was a perfect example of that. Olson and Harris both put up grade at bat after great at bat. Even though even Thoughlsen only had one hit, he had a walk, he was in three two counts all night. It's part of getting Severino's pitch count up. Like those two guys had the best at bats of the night. And when that's the case for the Braves, they their their lineup goes to a different level.

00:29:40
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's crazy.

00:29:41
Speaker 1: One of the reasons to watch on the go Ahead, I was gonna say, one of the reasons to watch on YouTube is to get the reaction that you guys had to Jered Kelnick's name being messed on the podcast. If you if you were only listening, you should be. You should just to see what the mesa. It was incredible. Yeah.

00:29:58
Speaker 4: No, uh, definitely not a pro jake like podcasts over here. And I'm still waiting for him to hurt us, like he hasn't heard us yet. I'm waiting for it. It's gonna happen at some point in our lifetime. He's gonna do something that is unforgivable as a Mets fan. But yeah, it's just like annoying too, because really, like the bottom of the order got a couple hits, they got on base a couple of times, but it was frustrating to be beat by the top of the order when we know that's the only thing that can really hurt us, like Giovanni Roschell, like these guys may have moments for the Braves, but to not be able to get Giovanni Orchell and Ramon Loreano and Orlando Arcia out as easy as they should be for the quality of player they are as compared to the top of the order. It was just like such a frustrating game to watch from the Mets fans side, And I know, like the conversation is gonna be it's happening again. The Mets are doing it again, like it's it's all starting to snowball, and it feels like it's so much on our shoulders right now.

00:30:47
Speaker 3: But the same time, like I gotta say.

00:30:51
Speaker 4: It just felt like the Met's had to hit, Like at the end of the day, as bad things could have been on the pitching side, you just have to hit.

00:30:56
Speaker 3: And the bats simply didn't show up. I just hope they do.

00:30:58
Speaker 4: They've been so great it would be like ridiculous for Mets fans us anyone in general to just count this team out right now because the Bats had one off night when they've been putting up numbers against all these other teams all year long.

00:31:09
Speaker 5: Totally, that's that's just the drama of Mets fans, Like we came on here dooman gloom the beginning, but by the time tomorrow rolls around, when I wake up, I'm be fully ready to dive back in again and have all the hope in the world. It's just the bitty little bit of frustration war. It's his war. It's only just because you lose the bowts does not mean you lose the war. That's that's a famous setting back there. But it was a little bit of the fact that this team just wasn't necessarily sharp at times, like when that missed that ball was misplayed by the combination of Alvarez Severino, really just Alvarez getting in Luis Averregno's way on that Orlando Arcia dribbler that starts spurning the rally in the third inning. It was just like, oh, man, like this defense has been so good for weeks now. I think that's been one of the mets under unheralded calling cards. This amazing hot few months have been on has been defense, which is always a huge backbone of David Sterearn's Milwaukee teams back in the day. So the fact that there was that misplay and then the flood gates immediately opened and there were three straight that bats fore a guy reached second base and there was not an out record. You're like, okay, this is something that was just hasn't hasn't happened yet, and then you guys make Samaras on the other side, Orlando or Cia misplayed a few balls and both times the Mess just couldn't seem to get that big hit to do anything about it, and it was Pilanzo once again in a game not getting a big hit.

00:32:15
Speaker 1: This year.

00:32:15
Speaker 5: We talked about Marte before. Jesse Winger did not have very many good at that today and we kind of needed him as a guy like Schwelling back just again just ran through us like a hot knife, hot knife through brother and just oh, it's just there was so many little moments the Mess could have gone back in the game and we just couldn't get you, guys to even break that sweat, even have that a little bit of stress that you can carry the momentum into the next day. And that was what continue to frustrate me so badly.

00:32:40
Speaker 1: It does seem to come out like when that that little moment of stress is the way you It's great that you put it that way, because it didn't really happen like they were. It was like one little thing away from that happening in this game. Once the lead was built it you never had that panic moment. You never had that that one played appearance where it's like, all right, this might be the game right here. Because the lead was semi comfortable. It Braves gone probably timely all the way through, and yeah the Mets got went across, but it was already five to nothing. You're still within four and the bravest bullpen has been knocked on wood lights out this year. So it didn't feel that nervy in the moment, but there, you're right there. There were several times where it was maybe one at bat, one misplay away from getting interesting in a way that we didn't want it to be on our side of things. But obviously the Mets would have been probably feeling because they have been playing so well for so long. I'm sure there is an inherent confidence in that clubhouse right now that like, hey, we're losing, we're winning every night basically, and there's some of that just vibe that could kind of settle in, which is why I was so big the brain struck first and led this one to kind of not give them that extra fuel that I'm sure they already have kind of deep down for how it hap it been?

00:33:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll say this like I was. I was obviously been doing a lot of research about the Mets, knowing that we were going to do this show. And if you told me that the Mets were going to have the year that they're having and you just said, how is it going to happen? I would have told you that Pete Alonso went nuts for a year, and JD. Martinez went nuts for a year, and Lindor went nuts, and Brandon Nemo went nuts, and you actually like and like Francisco Alvarez, I would have assumed he was having just a monster season and you actually look at like what's happened. It's been very different than I would have expected, Like Jad Martinez has had a very average year. Pete Alonzo, by here standards, has had a very average year. Francisco Alvarez, I think it's had a pretty average year. It's been guys like Vientto's obviously, Lindor is incredible, you know, the pitching come out of nowhere to be awesome. Like, it's been much different. I don't know how Mets fans feel. I'd be interest to hear y'all's perspective. But when I was doing the research of the team for the year, how good you guys have been. The how it's actually you know, how it's actually played out has been very different than I would have guessed if you asked me in March. You know, if this team was going to be a playoff team, how it was gonna happen. I don't think I would have picked how it's happened so far in twenty twenty four.

00:34:53
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think what's been really great about this Mets team, And again just a reassuring thing for the gloom and doom Mets fans out there maybe listening to this in our massachiser, Like, let me hear forty five minutes about how we just lost to the Braves after I just watched that game. The team has stepped Like we said earlier, guys have stepped up to different points, like brand Nemo had a point this year where at the All Star break thought I should have made the team. He went absolutely nuclear he was discussing peel A. Lonzo's had some big moments where he's gotten hot. A couple of weeks ago he was on fire. Alvarez, like even Luis an hell Acunya stepping up this last week for In Francisco, Lindor's absence has been so huge it's just about now, who's gonna be next?

00:35:30
Speaker 3: Can they do this all together? We really only got like a week or two.

00:35:33
Speaker 4: It feels like of where the entire lineup was just so hot when we were playing the Rangers and we had a little bit that West Coast trip where they were just swinging the bats so well. But as a whole, it hasn't happened yet, and guys like Jade Martinez Jesse Winker has been a little bit cold. It feels like the last few days need those guys to really step up if we want a chance to end the Brave Series season this week. If those games even get played, and it also felt like maybe this was the first time since the Lindor in that it felt like we actually physically missed him.

00:36:04
Speaker 5: Yeah, and another big thing is that JD Martinez, going completely invisible over the last two weeks is now in a game like this where Stoling Marte hits third and fails in multiple key spots, that's where you can feel a detriment a tweet when like semi Viral and metz Twiler yesterday that show the Daniel Vogelback and JD Martinez side by side and then one few were at bat as Mets, Daniel Vogelback had a higher batting average, higher on base percentage, and a higher slucking percentage than JD Martinez has done this year. So while JD's had some amazing moments and his impact on this team I think has been tremendous pass what he's done on the field, his tutelage of Mark Fiento's mainly sticking out. It just him disappearing when they really need the most op for his last thirty two or thirty three at this point is bad and you feel that trickled down because then this Mets line just gets a little bit shorter, and when the Mets line doesn't get shorter because Carls Mendez is very reactionary. He likes to flip guys around all the time. If you get these like kind of dips instead of this like okay, after the seven hit there, everything falls off like what most teams wind up as. But now you have a situation where, like in a game for the Mets, they're two, three, four, and five hitters, zero hits, like you just can't have that. And then you get these little pieces of news about Lendois's little crumbs left by the beat report. There's about Lindor's running, Lindora's taking batting practice more aggressively. Then there was that bizarre tweet from Steve Gelbs, like the fifth inning, when it was five to nothing, Lindor has emerged from the clubhouse wearing cleats instead of sneakers, Like what is this? Is this a fairy tale character that's going on? And then you look on the other side and you see the Braves. We're two hours before this game, they announced that their best player that could have possibly returned this year, Austin Riley, was officially out. The hand wasn't healing the right way, and it's just like we the Mets kind of kind of pushed themselves motivate themselves more in these little emotional things, more in like the power of friendship, like Mark and I say, sometimes more in these like fun, happy dancy vibes where the Braves get the worst piece of news they've gotten in a month and then they're just like full steam ahead, let's beat the other team.

00:37:50
Speaker 2: Well, and I'll say this that Braves fans I think are pretty hardened to bad news at this point this year. Like we wanted, right, we want I wanted Riley to come back, and there was a there was certainly a hope that he could. But in an honest moment, I don't think many Braves fans actually expected him to be back. I mean, it would have been fantastic, But like when I saw the news today, and Brad, I'll let Brad talk about this too. When I saw the news today, I was like, yeah, I mean that's kind of that's just kind of what I thought it. It wasn't like a crushing blow, you know, when we got the news at first that he had broken the wrists or the ham or whatever it is. That was the crushing blow the idea that he is not going to come back. Now. You know, what you guys are dealing with with Lindor is more of a daily drama than what we're dealing with with Riley, at least my perspective, because for me, like Riley, I've just kind of counted him out for most of the for the rest of the year anyways, and if he came back, great, But you know, obviously with Lindor, it's it's it's it's just completely up in the air every day. You guys have no idea what it's going to be.

00:38:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, if we had done our regular Braves only shows and I would have spent fifty man, it's on Riley probably, and it is what it is. But you're right that it did seem like we were all holding our breath. But it was like, maybe he can come back at the earliest for the Royal Series and be maybe diminished in the playoffs. It was like we were holding out for Austin Rally to be Austin Riley at all Capitol letters. He's been out for so long and there was the expectation it was like going to be close the whole time. So it's not as gut punchy as any of the other injuries have been the big ones. But yeah, as Lindor is about to come back, and look, I'm obviously would be easier for the Braves to win if Leonard didn't play. I love Lindor Rocks. I mean, it's not popular to say that he's awesome. He's very very good. If he wants to come back on Friday, that's probably better for the Braves. But alas we'll know, all right, we'll have more to kind of spin forward on the rest of this series, provided it happens on time, as we teased earlier. But first it word from our guys at fel Territory.

00:39:49
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00:40:51
Speaker 3: And we're back, all right.

00:40:52
Speaker 4: We actually just got some news coming out of the break from Metsbeat reporter friend of the podcast over here at Mets Up, Tim Healy, and it's about the game tomorrow, which I guess that's a great way for us to end here as well. Good timing on that, Tim, Carlosbindoza said. David Stearns hasn't heard anything regarding changes for Mets Braves tomorrow. Sounds like they'll just show up like normal. Hope to get the game in a schedule. Steven, it sounds like you are going to be sitting in the rain tomorrow waiting for this game to never happen.

00:41:17
Speaker 2: That's right, Poncho season, Like Brad says, poncho season.

00:41:22
Speaker 1: But I was looking at weather.

00:41:24
Speaker 5: I was looking at weather Ports today and there was a line that I tweeted from ACU Weather that's a potential for life threatening flooding. Have you guys, like just living in the Atlanta area, taken any precautions for what could be allegedly be this kind of cataclysmic grainstorm ahead?

00:41:38
Speaker 1: Oh boy, that that sounds stronger than I would have thought. But I did see that tweet from you. I had a bit of a chuckle and more of that like nervous chuckle. You know, it's like, all right, hopefully not life threatening for not always Steven who will be in the building, but even for me at home. I don't really want to deal with life threading flooding in my life. But yeah, I mean, I think we're in agreement. It seems like that it's probably not gonna happen tomorrow. Should we talk about the game as if it's going to happen? Should we preview? Chris Sale and David Peters, I don't know, do you want to talk about the matchup at all?

00:42:04
Speaker 3: Or it's like just kind of put the Braves have the advantage. Chris Sales better than David Peterson.

00:42:10
Speaker 1: That is, that is accurate. Chris Chris salees pretty good. Chris sale is the so young front runner for a reason. And by the way, an extra day of rest. He didn't look his one hundred percent best self in his last start, which I think we probably understand was the reason he didn't pitch today, is that they wanted to give him a extra day to kind of get it together and get you know, he's old, he has a pitches spanning, he's in a long time. But I say that every time he's had a little bit of like a misstep this year, the next start's been absolutely lights out. So if this game happens, I expected to be good. Maybe it'll be a three to two game, and we'll see which way that goes. But I, as I mentioned earlier, the brains has been awesome when he pitches, and that's not only because of him, but it's.

00:42:44
Speaker 4: Mostly listen over here on the Messed Up podcast, who like to say the Braves have voodoo magic. I don't know what Anthopolis does over there. As a fellow Greek guy, myself. I know my Yaya had some secret powers that I haven't gotten passed down to me yet.

00:42:56
Speaker 3: But maybe he can just push the rain clouds away a little bit, get.

00:42:59
Speaker 4: These games in and uh because I again, I can't wait until Monday for the rest of these games.

00:43:04
Speaker 3: I can't do.

00:43:06
Speaker 5: Waiting until seven twenty. Tonight was horrible, just fester all day.

00:43:11
Speaker 1: None of us want Monday. Nobody wants Monday on either team, either podcast, either fan base. No one wants to deal with Monday with Basically, you know, it may not be winner take all by then there's a chance it gets settled before Monday if that happens. But we all know it's gonna happen. If it happens on Monday, it's gonna mean everything. It's gonna be the whole season on Monday. If that's what happens, we all know it.

00:43:30
Speaker 5: I will imagine.

00:43:31
Speaker 2: I will say this the Diamondbacks, like the diamond Backs could just the diamond Backs could just wet the bed all week.

00:43:39
Speaker 1: That's why I brought it up. And it may it may not matter on Monday.

00:43:42
Speaker 4: Maybe you guys are nice guys, but I don't want the Braves to make the playoffs.

00:43:46
Speaker 3: So I'm hoping it's the Diamondbacks.

00:43:48
Speaker 2: I understand as long as the So yeah, there all week, so that could happen. Like these games might not matter. I mean, they probably will because that's how it goes. But there's a chance, like the Diamondbacks have not been playing well, Like they got that horrible loss on Sunday, they lost last night, they got Logan Webb tonight.

00:44:10
Speaker 1: I don't mean that, I don't I don't mean to go live spoil, but they if you guys haven't seen, they're currently down seven to nothing in the third inning. Now that may change. They just they just blew it. Eate nothing lead. Was that yesterday?

00:44:22
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:44:22
Speaker 1: Ate nothing lead or yesterday or Sunday one of those games, So nothing's safe. But they're not seven nothing in the third ending right now as we're talking.

00:44:27
Speaker 5: So yeah, yeah, just have to shut out Mets legend Michael Confour though the four hundred and twenty five foot home run for the second time and two nights against the Diamondbacks to push this ahead. But there's a chance. I have all four of these teams over like a very minuscule two week sample. It seems like that Diamonbacks team might be playing relatively the worst ball, So yeah, maybe the series winds up being nothing. But I think that even the series winds up being nothing, there's something inside of all the Mets fans right now, and I'm sure all of the Mets players where you won't really feel that satisfied unless you get over this hump and can beat this Braves team, because there's no there's almost there's no joy in victory without it, even if you make the playoffs and loose these games.

00:45:04
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I mean I know us as Mets fans, we definitely have a different perspective these next couple of games coming up here. Me and James are not typically gloom and doom Mets fans. I don't think we even are right now. I think we're gonna be completely fine as soon as we stop finishing recording this and wake up tomorrow morning and it's whatever is going on in New York City. But yeah, I mean, this has been a really good crossover episode with Hamburg Territory and Mets up. We want to know your guys' final thoughts, how how high, how much better do you guys feel after seeing tonight's game as opposed to coming into tonight.

00:45:34
Speaker 1: I'll go first. I think that obviously, just the sheer math of that, you gotta feel much better, especially with sale wind up the next day whenever that happens. At the same time, my rational brain, I'm a little bit more of a pessimistic doomsday er than some The brands are still behind in this. In this, not in the series, but in the overall picture of things. They still have to win at least one of the next two, and even if they win one of the next two, they're still gonna be behind the Mets. So the pressures in my mind still, Like we start this conversation, I think that there's the pressure is still on the Braves. It's maybe lessened by the win today. They don't now have to be perfect the next two days, but they do have to at least get one, and preferably by all accounts, they gotta get both. So I feel better, but I don't feel good, if that makes sense.

00:46:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I never feel good about anything. I mean, I'm gonna.

00:46:25
Speaker 5: Nuts.

00:46:26
Speaker 9: That does sound like Steven unbelievable, But like, if you've like what we've gone through in the postseason the last couple of years, just getting dog walked by the Phillies two times in a row.

00:46:37
Speaker 2: Off teams, the Falcons are the Falcons. The Hawks are like Alan fans.

00:46:44
Speaker 3: Oh so sorry for.

00:46:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is a level of always kind of dread, and that's what Brad's talking about a little bit about you know, he's always kind of not always, but we're we're both a little bit more pessimistic than some. But I do feel better. I mean I once the game was over, I felt better. Of course, having Sail tomorrow. I mean, if the game gets played. We don't know if the game is gonna get played, but having Saale tomorrow is probably what I feel most comfortable about, just because he's he's Chris Sale. He's gonna win the side young like you know, the Braves just play extremely well when he pitches, So I feel great about that whenever that game gets played. Yeah, I guess I probably. I guess we probably are feel a lot better than you guys. You guys are obviously dealing with some demons from the past for coming to the truest park and losing games that the Braves fans don't have to deal with. So yeah, well, I mean after this win and night, having Sailed tomorrow. I think we're definitely feeling better than you guys are at the moment.

00:47:41
Speaker 5: Yeah, just wondering, now, how many consecutive division titles does a fan base need to feel to be confident? Because is it seventeen? Is it eighteen?

00:47:49
Speaker 2: Like?

00:47:49
Speaker 5: What actually had to have happened your guys lifetime streaks over Now from this perspective, I can't even comprehend the things that you're saying of not feeling.

00:47:57
Speaker 3: Mets fans were different kind of stick in the head.

00:48:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, but understand have had so many postseason blow ups like, oh.

00:48:07
Speaker 5: No, we make the playoffs every year and don't win the World Series.

00:48:12
Speaker 2: You know what, I like you guys, don't It doesn't matter.

00:48:18
Speaker 3: Guys.

00:48:18
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for listening to this crossover episode between Hammer Territory and Mets Up. Make sure you subscribe, share in rate five stars on both Hammer Territory, Mess Up and the entire Foul Territory Network. A. J. Perzinski camera mayben In Scott Braun host Foul Territory tomorrow at one pm Eastern.

00:48:34
Speaker 3: We'll see you guys at the end of the series if it ever plays.

00:48:38
Speaker 1: Thanks up, guys, Thanks guys,