Rolling into Roland-Garros

00:00:16
Speaker 1: All right, everybody, welcome to the Renee Stubs Tennis podcast. What a week and we are so close to the French Open coming up, of course, joined this week by the one and only Kitlyn Thompson.

00:00:25
Speaker 2: You're back, Caitlyn.

00:00:26
Speaker 1: I decided to bring Hannah Burner in for a little laughter, a little deep diving into college tennis and herself.

00:00:33
Speaker 2: But you're back this week.

00:00:34
Speaker 3: How good to have you. Fair enough, Hannah Burner is a star that burns brightly, so I'm happy to I was also in Rome, so I was doing different stuff while you were having Hannah Burner on. So you know, all is well?

00:00:46
Speaker 2: That ends well, that's right.

00:00:48
Speaker 3: Shall we get into you?

00:00:49
Speaker 2: How was your little trip to Rhyme? Actually fill into all.

00:00:53
Speaker 3: Let's just get right into Rome. We'll talk about what happened. I'm happy to give you a report for my trip, which was marvelous. What a great tournament. I have nothing but amazing things to say about the Tournament of Room. I can imagine you probably have a little bit more of a critique though.

00:01:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, I want to get into the first of all, there was once again hunger games on the women's side. If you'd said that Switzerlina was going to win the tournament. I think a lot of.

00:01:20
Speaker 1: People would have said maybe clearly, she's won it twice before, and she comes in again knocks off the number two player in the world, the number three player in the world, and the number four player in the world. So if you want to tell me somebody else deserved to win this tournament, you're smoking some you know what, because Switzerlina was amazing in this tournament. She's won her twentieth WTA title while winning this tournament. And not only that, Caitlin, She's only the fifth player active player anyway to ever have won twenty or more titles.

00:01:48
Speaker 2: Of course, the great.

00:01:49
Speaker 1: Venus, williams IGAs, Chantech Sablenka and Vika Azarenka who I don't know where Vicker is these days, but that's a pretty impressive list to join. One an incredible week, an incredible final. Coco battled away through to the finals, was down match point earlier on against Yovich, managed to make it through to the final, but unfortunately for Coco, a couple of the usual suspects came back to bid her and that you know what in this match with some double faults at really pivotal moments and you know, fourhand errors on some pivotal moments. But before I get to the actual match, I just want to I want your opinion on this, Caitlin.

00:02:27
Speaker 2: The Italian Federation. It was absolutely and understandably sinners in the final. Okay, it's a it's a you know, it's a momentous.

00:02:36
Speaker 1: Moment with not having won a man had won the Italian title in years and years and years and decades, so every seat was taken and I get it, but my god, what the you know what with the federation's playoffs box, like behind the court, which is the most predominant area when you are watching on television. You are watching this match.

00:02:57
Speaker 2: Right, So all these beautiful seats that are right behind the court, which would cost thousands of dollars to buy, the Italian Federation owns those seats. That's like Tennis Australia USTA, the Royal.

00:03:11
Speaker 1: Box that always is right behind a court because that is the number one seat in tennis. And that Federation box from the start of the match was half full. If you are not going to give those tickets to people that are going to come and sit at that tournament and watch the women's final, give them to somebody else, because I this is my opinion. If you give it to them and they do not come to the final, they're never asked back again unless they have a great reason, like my grandmother's gone to hospital and they need to go and make sure she's okay.

00:03:43
Speaker 2: There's no excuse not to fill those seats.

00:03:45
Speaker 1: And then by the end of the match, because it was late and it was cold, there was barely anyone there.

00:03:50
Speaker 2: And then when Switzerlena.

00:03:51
Speaker 1: Got a trophy, there was two guys on the stage. When Sinner got his trophy, you could barely fit anyone onto the stage.

00:03:57
Speaker 2: It was so embarrassing, and I'm the upset about it. I don't know how you feel.

00:04:03
Speaker 3: I can't say that I noticed, but it is not lost on me that the Italian Open is one of the many Masters one thousand level tournaments that does not afford equal pay to men and women, and sort of famously, I would say, the Tours, when it comes to parody for splashing out for its men's and women's players, are not equal. Madrid obviously has been the most recent and sort of perennial target of this who you know it kind of seems to throw two different tournaments for two different two different tours. So yeah, I mean, I can't say that I paid close attention to it. I was more just baffled that Elena's Fitelina, who I kind of remember being a pusher, is now all of a sudden hitting laser, four hands and able to dictate from the baseline, when as before I kind of viewed her as being a little bit of a passive baseliner whose tennis bored me. But I have to say it does seem like Yenix's center. The home you know, the home favorite, the home champion now took all the oxygen in the tournament, despite the fact that the men's tournament was drastically underwhelming compared to the competitive level of the women's. I don't know what you do about this. I don't know how you like fix sexism, which is pretty obviously to blame at the sort of federation and maybe cultural level in Italy. That might be a little bit of a task beyond what our podcast is capable of achieving. But yeah, I can't decontextualize it from the larger sort of societal stuff, which I think is probably more to blame than the Italian Federation itself, although sure we can blame them too.

00:05:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, yes, I get it.

00:05:44
Speaker 1: The sexism as pretty prevalent in places like Italy and Spain. I mean it's just a fact. I mean we've been talking about this for a number of years. But it's like you sort of know that. So when you have the premium match of the tournament for the women, you better make sure that you're inviting people that want to be there, Okay, And so I'm just throwing it out to the Italian Federation. You know, it's great that they have the men and women together because you know, in previous years it was the men were one week, the women were another week, and so there was kind of like this this issue of like our fans going to go for two weeks, They're going to watch the men and then watch the women. Okay, fine, but if you're going to do it together, you better make sure that the people that are sitting in those seats.

00:06:23
Speaker 2: Because the rest was packed. It was great.

00:06:25
Speaker 1: I mean, it got a little bit later and the match was so long it almost went three hours the final, and so it was cold, so people started to leave, and I mean I get that at a certain point, but it was like that should not be the case in the federation box.

00:06:37
Speaker 2: You should people put people there that.

00:06:39
Speaker 1: Want to be there, and if they don't want to sit there after giving them the tickets, don't ever invite them back again.

00:06:44
Speaker 2: That's just so I want to talk about the final. The final was awesome, though well done.

00:06:47
Speaker 3: While we're talking about this topic, though, it does seem like it would be a very good time to remind the French Tennis Federation, who has also at times been accused credibly of not treating the men and women players very equally. Maybe this year is the year to get it right. The irony that Amily Moresmo, herself a Grand Slam champion who is a former player and now runs the tournament, has defended the decision not to put women on in night matches year after year by saying they're not that big of a draw. So I don't wanna let the Italian Federation off the hook. I'm not trying to bring Spain into things because it's messy. It's just more like, do we see a pattern here and are we able to course correct, because to me that's the most interesting sort of level of the conversation, which is like, hey, let's ask what the tours are doing to enforce that there's parody not only between pay but also in terms of promotion and also at the slam level. Where is the ft on this and are they going to do better than they have in years past? I see no indication that they are going to, but you know, there's no time like the present to get it right.

00:07:49
Speaker 2: Well, they use the thing with the men that well, you know, if it's a quick women's match, it's the best of best of three sets. Where was the men it's best of five sets. Well, yeah, but the amount of times last year that a best of mine men's five set was so boring. It was like six two six one six two. It's like, just because it's longer, it doesn't mean it's more entertaining.

00:08:07
Speaker 1: So you know, you have to sort of, you know, ask the question of you know, how can you not put an eager sheon tech for example, and a Naomi Osaka who played and played an incredible match and was played in the day, it wasn't played at night. How can you credibly say that two you know, of the best players of the last ten years on the w T A Tour wouldn't deserve you know, prime time at night at the French Open. So it'll be interesting because Emily's definitely taken some flack over the last couple of years, not only from you know, fans, but also from the from the WTA, So it'll be interesting to see how she she she works it out and if any indication of the last two weeks of the women's hunger game at the WTA Tour it doesn't give her, you know, at least a thought process is that maybe we're going to have better women's matches earlier on in the tournament than the men.

00:08:54
Speaker 2: This will be the.

00:08:55
Speaker 3: Year I'm legitimately worried about the quality of the men's tournament. I am not worried about the quality of the women's tournament. The women's tournament is going to be amazing. Even though she came up short, Ega looked really good. Coco obviously got to another final last year. She also lost Rome and then won Rolangaros. So can she repeat Let's see. We have a new digital cover story up now that talks about how she likes to prepare and as far as passes prologue, she's looking good. Obviously, I'm not even mentioning Rebakina or Sablenka. Like the women's tour is lousy as you've called it, with hunger games, level rivalries, interesting matchups, and if we look back to Rome, the last couple of rounds proved that out there were not bad matches to be had. In my opinion, even the first couple rounds were filled with amazing stuff. The men's let's get into it, because obviously nobody is stopping center right now, but nobody's also come a glor ring me. Medvedev came the closest that anybody's come.

00:09:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. But listen before we get to talking about the men. So I just want to dissect that final little bit of cod cod because I think, as I mentioned, she kind of had a few little stumbles again, and you know, she came out playing really well, was up four too in the first set, and then that four to two game was really that was it. That was the match in I mean not to say that SWITZERLANDA wasn't going to fight back, but up four to two, forty love on serve.

00:10:17
Speaker 2: Okay, it looks like she's going to be five to two. Looks like the first set's probably going to go Coco's way. She double faults at forty love, she misses a fourhand I believe at forty fifteen. She double faults again at forty thirty, and then two unforced eras off the four hand side loses the game. That game is massive.

00:10:33
Speaker 1: You go at five to two, you win that first set more than likely, right, you know, you're looking very comfortable on the court. Instead, everything changed and then the four all game in the first set went for over thirteen minutes and Fifteleena again manages to dig out of that particular game when Coco had a number of break points and just got really passive, and then serving down five to four, where it's okay, you know it's five for it's on serve, get it back on serve. Maybe you win the first set, which she does so many times, Coco her way through, and then at five to four game first point double fault, set point double fault, and I believe she only had four or five.

00:11:09
Speaker 2: She had four double faults.

00:11:10
Speaker 1: In the first set, and they all came at pivotal times, and so that to me is still an issue, and it just breaks my heart that she hasn't been able to figure out a way on these big occasions, especially on clay, which I believe is her best surface. I think she's going to have a lot of success on clay through her career because you can't take advantage of a kind of a crappy second serve the way you can on a hard court. That's a defining unfortunate thing for Coco going forward. If she's going to win the French Open again, she has to be able to figure out a way to not double fault and not miss those fourhands on really pivotal big moments since Fitzelena took advantage of it. And just back to what you were saying about Suzelena, it's amazing after coming back from having a kid that her and a coach, and I want to just shout out to Andy Bettles who's been with Sitzelena.

00:11:55
Speaker 2: She had a year where she changed coach.

00:11:57
Speaker 1: She went to somebody else and she had some pretty good results, but she's gone back to Andy Bettles, and I'm just so thankful because Andy Bettles is one of the nicest and I want to give him props. One of the nicest guys onto a great coach. He's been with Switzelena for so long and reaping the benefits with her now again coming back after having her baby. What a great job from the both of them, and Switzelena goes after everything now she's not a pusher, she rips the ball, she goes after the first serve, and I'm just really it's been really great to see this transformation on her. And congrats to them as a team. What an effort. Now we can talk about those blokes, I.

00:12:33
Speaker 3: Mean, the men's In contrast, I liked seeing some Italians late in the mix, not just Sinner. I liked seeing Alexaverev get taken out. I liked seeing you know, some intense play from you know, Learner Tien. But nobody really got their mojo into the second week. The only exception really was Medevetev, who I think got helped by some weather what appeared to be like some kind of panic attack or crazy physiological moment for Yannick Center. But in the end, what happened when we found out Carlos Alkoraz would not be playing this tournament is what happened, which is nobody put up too much of a fight, and Yanick Center won his sixth Masters one thousand, Like in a row. It's bonkers what he's doing. But I would be unbelievable, a little bit remiss if I didn't say it's also a.

00:13:27
Speaker 1: Little boring, a little boring when we've been talking about this for weeks. I mean, I think the most exciting thing that happened was Daddy winning and getting through and then deciding to be a complete tool bag when he walked on the court and left the kid behind this week because he was more interested in walking out with the sunglasses on and showing them to the crowd.

00:13:44
Speaker 2: That was the weirdest thing.

00:13:47
Speaker 1: Honestly, one of the craziest things I've ever seen this guy is he's loved, you know, Italians love him. He's had this great week, he comes onto the semi finals and he just blows by the kids that they had.

00:13:58
Speaker 2: By the way, was a great.

00:13:59
Speaker 1: Thing that the Italian Federation, it was bringing some of these kids from the cancer hospital for kids that were going through such a difficult time. They were like allowing them to walk on the court with the players, and Janick Sinnec hugged that one kid. And then on the finals he had to walk really slow because the young man was you know, obviously had some issues with his walking ability.

00:14:18
Speaker 2: And it was just it was just beautiful.

00:14:19
Speaker 1: And then you've got Dadari who decides to blow by this kid and show the world his sunglasses.

00:14:26
Speaker 2: I was like, what are you doing?

00:14:27
Speaker 1: And then he meanwhile gets absolutely spanks by Casper, which frankly I really liked to see. And I love seeing Casper rude, you know, running running through some players and getting to a final of a clay court tournament.

00:14:39
Speaker 2: Again. He'll be He'll go deep in the French again.

00:14:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. I was really pleased to see Caspar rude, even though I didn't think that he would have enough firepower to take it to Yannick Center, and he didn't. But somebody made the point that even though Caspar Roud doesn't quite have the weaponry to get over the last hurdle, which we've seen now, you know in a number of scenario is obviously the front sch open. He was in a final, He was in the final against Carlos Algaznu was open a couple years ago. He still tries and he comes out and fights. You know who doesn't do that, who tells the world that he's amazing and that he has all the tools and if it weren't for the wind or the cosmology or the astrology or the political headwinds, he would be doing better and would be a champion on par with us. Two is al Zaverev. And it's just pretty funny because it's like Verre, we all know Kaspar Rud's gonna lose, but maybe he doesn't and he doesn't act like it, whereas the opposite is true for Alexavara if he can't tell us enough about how incredible he is, but that he goes out there, it looks like he's already been beaten, you know, two points into the match. So anyway, shout out to Casper Rud because it is great to have the Oatmeal Stallion back in the finals of a big tournament. Again.

00:15:45
Speaker 2: Well, that's right, the outmel Stallion.

00:15:47
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I want to talk a little bit more about Janick Sinna and just everything he's doing right now, but we're going to take really show upbreak and come back and get into how good Yanix Sinna really is right now.

00:16:06
Speaker 2: Okay, So Caitlin Yanick.

00:16:08
Speaker 1: Sinner, I mean, let's just you know, touch upon it a little bit, even though we know the boys are boring right now, but you have to still, we have to put Yanix Cinner in this, in this upper echelance of one of the great players we've ever seen on the tour. And yes, no, we know Carlos Alkerrez isn't there and there's going to be an asterisk because of that, but I don't care if if Carlos is there or not. The fact that Janick Syno's doing what he's done, which is when all of the Masters series on the A t B Tour, and not only that, you know, so he's only he and Novak Djokovic have done that, not Rafa, not Roger, just Yannick Sinner, not Carlos, just Yanick Sinner and Novak Djokovic right now, which is incredible. Of course, I think Djokovic has done it a couple of times and he's I think maybe one Monte Carlo away from doing it three times. But it's phenomenal what Yannick Sinner is doing. He did it with you know again, doing it at home. I think winning Ryan would have meant as much to him as any tournament he's ever won. So that was great to see and he had all the guys on stage to congratulate him. Unlike the women.

00:17:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you made that point, and it's a good one. I wouldn't mind. I tend to find records really boring because I don't think they capture anything, but it is sort of useful to sort of say he is really chasing down, as you said, Novak Djokovic, in terms of putting up just the numbers. And I think for people who like numbers, you know, obviously this is the player for them. It doesn't stir a whole lot of emotion in me. But he's got thirty four Masters one thousand consecutive victories, which is a crazy streak. He's now got the all time streak of Masters one thousands.

00:17:55
Speaker 2: He's got.

00:17:57
Speaker 3: The Clay Master Slam, and he's the young winds in a row, and he's by win percentage, he's got just a massive, massive, ninety five point seven percent dominance over everybody, certainly as he's playing right now. What sort of shape Carlos Alcrez comes back in what kind of you know, what kind of beat will he have missed by being out of at least play season. Hard to imagine he'll He'll make it and really strong run on natural surface. Season Portion number two.

00:18:34
Speaker 2: In the grass.

00:18:34
Speaker 3: But I do have to say that as quick as we are ready to give Yannick all the crowns, and obviously he deserves them, I am sort of watching. We're about to publish a piece on Raphael Hodar, the young Spaniard. We've got Blocks, the young Belgian kid we're looking at obviously you know job Fonsaka and this next gen. Let's see how quick it takes them to catch up, because the time between these generations is now shrinking, and these players on the younger side of the spectrum are getting better and better. So look for that hot our piece to come out and rack it in the next couple of days. I think it'll sort of be an interesting table setter for maybe not who's going to win Roland Garros or win some of these clay titles, because I think it's still those two, but who's going to be challenging them deep into the tournaments, because I'm not sure it's going to be, you know, the last generation of your Medvedevs and Roods for too much longer.

00:19:28
Speaker 1: No, well, I will say this, I think that the most important thing is you have to look at Alcaz and look at Sinner and look the fact that, as Hannah Burna said last week, they don't have holes.

00:19:38
Speaker 2: There's just nowhere to go.

00:19:40
Speaker 1: With Janick Sinner, he moves as well as anyone has moved, especially for someone his size. His serve is awesome. He doesn't have a hole on the back end or the forehand wing. He can hit the slice, he can come to the net. He's improved that transition into the nets so much. He's implementing the fourhand drop shot like al Karez did on clay. He's varying the speed of his shots. There's just nowhere to go. So if these guys do want to, the Hoo does and you know, the Fon Sakers and all these guys, they have holes still in their game. So it's going to take them at least a year or two to really iron those out, as it did for Janick Sinner, I mean a couple of years ago. Look at you know even again bring up Hannah, she brought up the fact that Zvere beat Sinner at the US Open a number of years ago in straight sets, and it's because he had a few holes in his game, whether it's physical, mental, and then all the parts. And that's the thing to build a perfect and a great, great, great tennis player. You have to have no holes and that's what Janick Sinner has right now. And not only that, he actually believes more in himself. And that is the key because I think earlier on in his career, because he's kind of a placid guy, he's kind of very quiet and interests.

00:20:47
Speaker 2: You know, he's he's an introvert.

00:20:49
Speaker 3: Is that.

00:20:50
Speaker 1: I think it took him a long time to actually really believe that he was this great, and I think he's at that point now where he knows he's that great and to not have a hole in your game makes you feel that way. And then the side of it now, the only question mark is a physical because this has happened a couple of times. It happened in Australia, it happened, you know, in the match against Medvedev worried there was some query on his physicality, so that would be the only thing.

00:21:11
Speaker 2: And if I was playing against him, that's what you have to do.

00:21:14
Speaker 1: You have to make it physical and maybe maybe you can wear him down, but certainly there's not mean many that have been able to do that over the last couple of years.

00:21:25
Speaker 2: So of course now all is said and done, the clay has been played.

00:21:29
Speaker 1: Yes, there are some tournaments going in to the French the women are playing in Strasburg, blah blah blah, but they're smaller tournaments. Now we start talking about who the favorites are at the French Open, and of course the women's. You could throw seven eight like numbers and balls in there and say pick one out and that's possible that they could win. It was the men, throw one ball in there, because the chances are Janick Sinner will be the French Open champion unless Novec Djokovic decides that he's going to spring to eternity again and decide that he's going to win the French Open and do what he did in Paris a couple of years ago when one of the Olympics, but it was best of three.

00:22:02
Speaker 2: Best of five is a whole different story. But Caitlin, I mean, give me your thoughts. I just think the women's is so up for grabs. I will say that Switzerlina let everyone know, maybe she's the favorite. I mean, she beat everyone other than Sabolenka. She literally beat everyone to win this tournament. And Rome is a great indicator of who wins in Paris.

00:22:23
Speaker 3: For me, if I'm putting money on anybody, honestly, it's eager and not because I expected her to win this tournament and was disappointed that she didn't. I expected her to be in shambles because of how much turnover and how technically, uh, sort of all over the place she's seen. She gets panicky, and I haven't liked the fact that she's had a sort of confusing run up. That said, what she did at the height of her powers in Rome looked untouchable. She didn't play that rate when she lost to Fidelina. She's still panicked a little bit. But Alena played the match of her life, and I'm not sure how replicable that is. And i think even when we've seen Fiddelina get to great heights. You know, obviously she won the WTA Tour Finals a couple of years ago. She's capable of amazing, amazing breakthroughs. I don't know how sustainable her level is when she is playing lights out the way that she played in the last couple of rounds both against Ega and as you said, she beat everybody, I don't see her continuing to do that, And so to me, she's not a favorite because I think she's kind of played herself into a corner, whereas I think Ega now has gotten some confidence back. Yes, she lost a tough match, but also this is the tournament that she likes the most, she's won it the most, and I think it's still hers to lose. The ones that I have more question marks about for me are Coco and Arena Sabalanca. Coco obviously won it last year. Arena Sabalanka lost in the finals. I don't know what's going on with Arena. Clay is not obviously necessarily her part of the calendar to shine in, but she did get to a finals last year and arguably could have and maybe should have won it. So questions for me about those two and then to a lesser degree, I think, you know, you're Jess Bogula's and some others like, I'm not sure how they necessarily break through, So to me, it's actually still eagers to lose. But I'd love to know what you think about the cohort around because I you know, I could see anybody really lifting the trophy.

00:24:18
Speaker 2: As you said, yeah, I mean, listen, I think that I think that Ega has to go in as if you had to pick one to win the tournament, probably just because, as you already mentioned, she's the one that's won at the most and feels incredibly comfortable on the surface.

00:24:32
Speaker 1: But listen, I think Coco's got to feel really good about herself. She played, you know, some up and down tennis. As I already mentioned, the serve and the forehand are going to be a bit of an issue if she doesn't correct those under pressure, But she manages to win so many matches even based on that, so having won last year has to feel really good. And as you said, lost in the finals of Rome and then went and won the tournament in Paris. I think Sabolenka, as you already mentioned, there's some question marks. How is the back She mentioned that, how is that going to lie through seven matches on clay, which is arguably one of the most taxing, sort of longer arduous points where she probably instead of hitting a winner, has to hit three in a point because of clay. It's just the ability for someone to run the ball down. But listen, I mean, I think Switzerlina now I believe, is eight and zero in finals on clay. That is an incredible stat and I've said this forever when it comes to Switzelena, this is before even she had her kid. When she gets to the final, she's so hard to beat because her eye is so in and she does not mind stepping in and ripping the balls. I mean, she was more aggressive than Coco yesterday and that's what wanted the match. And so if she can go deep into this tournament, there's no doubt that I believe she can actually win this. Rebeccina is definitely the player to watch as well. This court is going to be fast.

00:25:46
Speaker 2: It depends on the It depends so much on the drawer, and it depends so much on the weather, right, so it's just very variable. If it's cold, if it's rainy.

00:25:57
Speaker 1: Clearly it has a roof on center court, but they won't close it unless it's really raining hard.

00:26:02
Speaker 2: So I don't know.

00:26:03
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, if I had to put maybe some money on it, it would be eager, just because of her record in Paris, but it's anyone's game. Andreva might have the tournament of her life. We know that she can beat anybody on any given day.

00:26:17
Speaker 2: But I mean when you look at the top ten, it's pretty unbelievable the people that could possibly win this. I mean, Mukhova is ten in the world.

00:26:23
Speaker 1: She's made the finals there and played a terrific match in that final against eager Vicky Umboco, who.

00:26:28
Speaker 2: Has a new coach. When FA set he's back, I don't know how I just.

00:26:35
Speaker 1: Keeps rolling on to great player after great player. It's just unbelievable to me. Wasn't he coaching the Polish male player for like a second, didn't he didn't that get announced? And now he's with Mumboco, Like I don't even know. I've lost count of how many players this guy's coach. But even like Linda Noskova's twelve in the world. I mean, she's capable of beating anyone. She beat Coco a couple of weeks ago. So yeah, look this I can't wait for it to start. It's going to depend a lot on the draw and that will come out in a couple of days, and then I'll have a bit of a better indication of who I think can maybe win the tournament. But if I had to put my money on it, it would be maybe slightly eager. But she's going to have to really get some good matches under a belt before she gets later into the tournament, and the men's just put Senna's name on the trophy unless he physically can't figure it out. But we got big us today Caitlin about the All England Club Sally Bolton after six years is out, very very interesting timing. What are your thoughts on this?

00:27:35
Speaker 2: I mean I.

00:27:38
Speaker 3: First wondered did she decide to step down or was this a suggestion from the board and maybe some of the other executives. You usually don't see this until after a incredibly successful run at concluding with the most recent tournament. Like if you look at the way that Craig Tailey stepped down, and obviously he had a job waiting for him at the USTA. But despite the fact that that was a very public job search, everyone knew he wasn't gonna make any kind of a decision or announcement certainly about it until after the conclusion of the most recent, very successful Australian Open. So yeah, it's a little bit strange that with a month out they they've decided to make a change. Obviously she's not gonna be stepping down before the tournament. She'll see it through. I'm not sure exactly that they set an end date for her for her tenure, but it's very strange and gives me sort of further proof that I think there's a whole lot of seismic change happening at the top of the sport, and frankly I like that, not that this, you know, necessarily, you know, this particular move needed to happen. I don't have any particular feelings about this woman. Maybe you do. You've played the tournament. I have, and I've been to it a number of times. But it does make me wonder that the change we've all been calling for in terms of consolidation, in terms of more transparency, in terms of modernizing, is it starting to happen. We've seen a lot of shuffling of chairs at the top of the sport in recent in recent months, and you know this PTPA ongoing lawsuit. Obviously they're suing three of the slams. They've been denied credentials to cover and sort of be at the French Open and at at Wimbledon, which frankly kind of makes sense. I'm not sure if you invite somebody in the door who's who's openly suing you, But that subject itself is subject to a lawsuit now, you know. But Craig Tylee at Tennis Australia settled with the PTPA and agreed to give more revenue to the players, and I think we have some indications from my sources at the PTPA that the USTA might follow suit, which kind of leaves the two European based slams a little bit in limbo now with a new new CEO in coming on the on the part of the British. So I do think it's very interesting, and I think again it's it's sort of overdue. We have a lot of chain that needed to happen at the top of the sport. We have a lot of consolidation that still needs to happen at the top of the sport, and it's kind of unclear who's who's driving the agenda, who's driving the ship wimbled in itself, the thing that's the most notable about it is, in and of itself, it is the most valuable brand in tennis. It is the most singularly profitable brand that extends beyond the fortnite of play that exists in tennis. Sure, the US Open can say that they make more money on ticketed events more because of some consecutive thing, and that is also true. But in terms of brand equity, Wimbledon in a lot of ways is bigger than Tennis's and so I do think whatever happens with that tournament next is really going to define sort of the future of what happens with not only the other Slams, but also the tours and also the governing bodies that are sort of I would say maybe on their back heels a little bit like the ITF or some of the team competitions like the Billy Jean King Cup or Davis Cup. It's just we're lousy with acronyms, we're lousy with too many cooks, and we're not really subject to a lot of transparency, alignment, unity and vision, and so I tend to think chaos, especially when it follows a long period of ossification, which is what these you know, this sport has unfortunately been subject to. Is not necessarily a bad thing, and of course that has nothing to do with Miss Bolton and her leadership.

00:31:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think look at Wimbledon has now got finally got these are able to build across the road. This Wimbledon is going to really transforms its grounds are going to be huge, and if anyone has been to Wimbledon, the beauty of Wimbledon is the you know, you're so close to the courts.

00:31:45
Speaker 2: It's the intimacy of Wimbledon. The lack of advertising, all that sort of stuff, as you said, because Wimbledon is such an entity upon itself, but the growth was needed. They need another big court.

00:31:55
Speaker 1: They're going to build across the street and that's all going to happen in the next three to four five years. Maybe they feel like, I don't know, maybe they just feel like Sally's not the person for the for the expansion of it.

00:32:05
Speaker 2: I don't know. After six years, it's pretty it's not a long time.

00:32:09
Speaker 1: I think about how long Craig Tyler has been at Tennis Australia and what a great job he did there, and it's got his hands cut out for him to come over to the USDA because it is a very different situation the USTA did to Tennis Australia, where he had a lot of autonomy at Tennis Australia is the us TA is gonna have to work with a lot of different entities. Wimbledon is an entity upon itself, So it'll be it'll be interesting to who they bring in to do that job. I have a few people that I would suggest that could do that job really well. But yeah, it's an interesting timing, as you said, so close to the tournament. But it'll be great to see what the All England Club does with this new expansion of the of the grounds because it is my favorite tournament, and as you said, Wimbledon is bigger because when anyone ever asked me or did you did you ever play at Wimbledon? They never say did you ever play at the French Open? Never, no one's ever said did you ever play at the French did you ever play strut? Only people care about is if you say I want it Wimbledon, They're like, what you want it Wimbledon. It's like the only tennis tournament that anybody knows about, which is remarkable. Even the US Open doesn't get as much recognition even in this country.

00:33:16
Speaker 2: In the US. So, yes, as you said, it's incredibly valuable property. It's like the Masters, It's just they're just different to everything else.

00:33:25
Speaker 3: Yes, I think it supersedes people's understanding of tennis. And it is also going back to the French Open. Why I think the French Open rebranded itself as Roland Garros as opposed to when you were playing and when I was growing up, certainly we just called it the French Open, did we not?

00:33:44
Speaker 2: Yeah? Always, and I still do. Yeah. So now it will never be Rolling Garros to me, It'll always be the French Open.

00:33:50
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean Roland Garros in history was a French aviator who I think was shut down they think by h German in World War One, but it wasn't like this is a tournament named after one of the greatest champions of all time, like a Billy Jean King National Tennis Center, or you know a Yanick Noah who was one of the first Frenchmen in a very long time after the Four Musketeers, last win a Grand Slam and was the last one to win. So yeah, it's sort of weird. But what I am bringing up here is that it actually has very valuable IP potential. So when people walk around with a shirt that says Wimbledon on it, it is unmistakable.

00:34:29
Speaker 2: It's like the Masters.

00:34:29
Speaker 3: As you said, Roland Garas, they have great merch Actually I really recommend people go if they go to the tournament and go buy some because it is a cut above pretty much everyone else is. It's still not quite a thing, I think for a lot of the English speaking world anyway, So it's very it's very strange, all right, we have tons.

00:34:46
Speaker 2: That's a good points. I never thought about it. Why they changed it.

00:34:49
Speaker 3: They change it because of that anyway.

00:34:50
Speaker 1: Yes, so let's take a break, and where are you going to get answers to you questions that you sent into the socials to me after the right.

00:35:07
Speaker 2: Okay, Caitlin, this is your favorite time or you get.

00:35:09
Speaker 1: To read the questions that people have sent in for us to answer. And so you said, there's been some really good ones today, so let's get to it.

00:35:16
Speaker 3: I love to read the questions. This is my favorite part you do. And I'm going to get it. I'm going to start with something kind of controversial.

00:35:24
Speaker 2: I love this. I have no just so everybody knows out there, I have no decision in this decide what she decides to read.

00:35:32
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I try to make it a good mix, and I also try to make the topics really toothsome so keep it up. The questions have been great, and they're all sort of interesting and varied. Okay, Carolyn Pruski from Los Angeles writes with a subject I know you're going to want to dig your teeth into is I have heard you talk about commentators who talk too much during the matches when they shouldn't. What is the balance in your opinion and your intent when you commentate?

00:36:00
Speaker 2: Oh, well, listen, The most important thing is look.

00:36:03
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if you know this about listening to our podcast, but I can talk and so and I can I can break down a point or a player every single point.

00:36:13
Speaker 2: I can talk about it.

00:36:14
Speaker 1: But there has to be a balance of, you know, making sure that you're balancing the talking about critiquing a point and also understanding that you're laboring the same point over and over.

00:36:27
Speaker 2: I don't like to do that.

00:36:28
Speaker 1: I don't like to get into like ripping on someone all the time. But there has to be a balance of when it gets later in a set, for example, or in a tie break. And you know, Lindsay Davenport, you would always tell me she barely talks in a tie break because those are such important times in matches, so it's.

00:36:43
Speaker 2: Really important to let it breathe. As a producer will tell you, let it breathe, Let it breathe, meaning let the crowd be heard. One thing that really bothers me is when commentators talk over when the player's box is telling the play to something like even if I'm in mid sentence, like, just just stop talking, because nothing you say is more important than what you're going to hear from that coach or from that player in that position, Like they could say something to a coach that just gives you so much into where their mind is at. And also a coach can say something that can give you everything you need to know about what the player is about to do. So little things like that are super important.

00:37:15
Speaker 1: So I think it's just a balance of knowing when the crowd is going crazy, when you know when the people at home are probably into the match, they don't really need you to tell them too much of that moment. So understand there are times when to talk and what to talk about, and also the emotional side of it, and maybe never not really talking about yourself too much in matches as well, like or when I played her, or when this happened. And it's like there's very very few times where you can insert your own, you know, history into something to make it understandable to a viewer at home, So there is a really it's not an easy job. I've had people write to me on Twitter, Caitlin, I've showed it to you where I've had one comment that is just ripping me to shreds and the one underneath it is like telling me I'm the great things in side splay. So you can't please everybody, but the most important thing is just to pull back sometimes and other times it's to let the viewer know how they can be better at their own sport.

00:38:09
Speaker 3: I do want to give you kudos because to me, you are impeccably additive. You're always telling me more than I'm seeing about what's happening on the court because of your perspective, and you don't need to shovel it down my throat with what I played or I happen to know, or making yourself the center of attention. You're adding to my experience watching. And I do have a follow up question from Carolyn, who packed a lot into her message, which is just networks executives give you guys any notes or are they intimidated since a lot of honor talent were former pros.

00:38:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question.

00:38:46
Speaker 1: I think a really good producer is one that listens to it and says, I'm learning. So if you're learning, and you're learning more about the sport, then that's really our audience because I'm not going to talk to someone like me. There's only very few people in the world that have experienced what I've experienced on the tennis tour, right, So yes, I'd take a lot of pride in when other tennis players say, oh, I really enjoyed your call or I really liked listening to you, because that means a lot to me. That means that I'm making sense to a pro like to somebody that really knows the sport. But I think it's important when a producer does say to you, oh, I learned a lot today, because that means I'm talking to the audience that I'm really trying to get to. And so I've had some producers, you know, recently at ESPN, for example, a guy by the name of Mike McQuaid would sit It's the first time it's ever happened to me, actually sat with me for over an hour and watched a match with me and gave me a critical you know, gave me critique in the positive and the negative, and thankfully with him, it was a lot of positive, which really felt good for me.

00:39:48
Speaker 2: But he constantly would be like, that was good. You could add a little bit more now, And his thing was always, it's always about the why, Renee, tell me why you're saying what you're saying.

00:39:58
Speaker 1: And so I was so grateful for someone like Mike, who's been in the industry for over twenty five years to help me, you learn to be better at my job as a journalist, so and as a commentator. So yeah, there are some producers that don't say a word to you, and then all of a sudden you're gone, you're not working there anymore. And some are really positive and and good with the critique of you and trying to get you to be better. So there are balances. And the producer, the executive producers the one that makes a decision on who gets matches, and that's how it comes down to.

00:40:28
Speaker 2: We have a roster.

00:40:30
Speaker 1: The roster comes out the night before the matches get put on a schedule, and then the producer decides who's doing what matches and who's going to be on the desk, who's going to be courtside, and it's always up to them.

00:40:41
Speaker 3: It's it's never our decision. There's a related question, a lot of questions about this. There's a related question from Karen Geiney who asks who decides who's calling a match? Is it an assignment for a producer seniority and this person. Karen was surprised that Petco and Jim Courrier, a friend Adrea pek It and Jim Currier, who were commentating at least State Sad for Tennis Channel, weren't on the Realm Final. I have some theories, but I'd love to hear it from you. Who gets which matches and why?

00:41:12
Speaker 2: Again, it comes down to the producer. They decide who gets the matches, and sometimes it's pre set. I believe that Peco was only scheduled to be there till Friday, so they've made a decision that she's only going to work the semifinals and then she'll leave. And that once you know your travel schedule that you're not going to be there on Saturday and Sunday, you know you're not going to be doing the final. So that's totally up to the producer or the executive. The executive producer decides in the end.

00:41:39
Speaker 1: The producers might suggest, but the executive producer, so the big bosses there, you know, you can look it up online. Who's executive producer of ESPN Tennis executive producer of Tennis Channel, for example, And they're the ones that make the most of the time.

00:41:53
Speaker 2: They're the ones that make the final judgement and who does what matches.

00:41:56
Speaker 1: And sometimes they try and mix it up, like I believe Petco did the Madrid final, so maybe they decided to put Coco win for the final of Rome to mix it up and share share it around so we're not hearing the same voice over and over.

00:42:08
Speaker 2: There are various different reasons. Some even have it in their contract that they do certain matches. So it does come down to in the end, the executive producers the one that decides who does matches. They're not the talent. We don't decide anything. We just like bow our heads and go okay, I'll see you there.

00:42:25
Speaker 3: Well, I can tell you who should be deciding, and it's me because I have some very clear favorites, and I have certain people that I would never ever listen to commentate anything, much less my favorite sport on the world. Okay, a couple questions about we know the WTA next Gen Finals, why doesn't the WTA have a next Gen Finals? And for clarity, the ATP Tour has a tournament that has been won a number of times by people like Jannick Centner, by people like ttypas Hot are big names win this thing, and it's seen as a sort of farm team, and the WTA does not have one. Any any guess as to why, I know why I think it doesn't.

00:43:09
Speaker 2: Well, why don't you answer this question, because you seem to have a little bit of an inkling of why.

00:43:13
Speaker 3: I don't think the WTA has enough money and I don't think that they can successfully sell their WTA finals sadly, for reasons that any listener on this podcast should have no surprise as to why. So that is that's that's I think probably the case. Okay, Phil, nowhen asks should cramps be allowed to be treated to keep the show alive? It's such a bummer if a match gets retired or I guess paused because of cramps. Cramps, you're not allowed to take a medical time out. What do you think about cramps and how should we treat them?

00:43:49
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, see this is the problem with cramps is that you can say, oh, it's it's not my I'm not cramping. I have a my hamstring. I think I've pulled my hamstring. So if you're smart the way you do it, you just say, yeah, I definitely think I've torn something in my hamstring.

00:44:06
Speaker 1: Even though my hamstring is also cramping. The physio can't decide that it's you're lying. It's not like the physy can go no, no, no, you're just cramping, and it says, well, yeah, I think I might be cramping somewhat, but I definitely pull my hamstring as well, so you have to treat that. So there are ways to get around it. I mean, we saw it in Australia with Carlos, we saw it in Rome recently with Sinner. He said that his I think I would believe it was his quad was tightening, which could be true. He could be he could feel a pain in there, that his quad was starting to you know, give out on him a little bit and then all of a sudden, you know, the cramping also starts, or his body is breaking down a little bit. But I mean, I understand what Phil's saying. Phil saying, well, even if it is a cramp, who cares, Let's treat it and let the match go on kind of thing. And you know I don't disagree with that. I mean, listen, we saw that a couple of weeks ago with the player that was literally cramping for about three minutes and the umpire got out of the chair, the physio came out and he was like screaming bloody murder and then got up and beat was it with the French guy Unbere lost that match?

00:45:10
Speaker 2: Remember that, It was just like ridiculous. It's like everyone knew that was a cramp, so they didn't treat him, but they still gave him like three minutes to get down the other end of the court. So rules are you know, they're expanded often, and whether it's good for the game or bad for the game, as far as I'm concerned, it is better if we treat them and get them back on the court and let them finish a match. Then just go too bad cramping, get off the court.

00:45:36
Speaker 1: I'm not really a lover that lover of that either because often, and I've been told this by physios, it's not necessarily you don't get a cramp necessarily from lack of training and physicality. Some people are just prone to cramp more than others because they sweat more or they have a predisposed cramping issue, and so that's not a loss of physical conditioning in some people because it just naturally that's how they go down.

00:46:01
Speaker 2: And so I don't know. I'm with Phil on this.

00:46:03
Speaker 1: I'd rather treat the cramp and let them play. I had a cramp in a match once and I was like, come on, like, you know, get out. They just rubbed it for like the ninety seconds of the break and then I went back out and played. But yeah, I know, a five minute I don't believe in that they should have a five minute injury timeout, but I think that they should be allowed to have the train to come out and rub it out and try and get them back on the court.

00:46:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:46:26
Speaker 3: Here's a tour question for you, which is sort of newly relevant because Ben Shelton has done decently well on in this clay swing right now from Michelle, what do you think Ben Shelton needs to do to be more competitive? I love his game, love that he's a lefty and his dad is his coach, But it seems like the experts are split down the middle on whether he should just serve bombs or mix it up.

00:46:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think on different surfaces he has to vary the serf and on clay maybe a few more kick serves to set up the forehand. But you've got to have patients on clay, and Ben's probably not known for his patients to come into the nat. He likes to be aggressive, he likes to hit the big fourhand. It's just a matter of him.

00:47:04
Speaker 2: I think he'll be I think he'll do well at the French I think he really gets up for the big tournaments and big matches, and the French Open does lend itself to some aggressive play, especially if the weather is good, and if the weather's hot, then Ben will be banging down serves. But I think look him going with the big gun server is a great thing if he's hitting it in, but his kickserver is so big and his forehand is so big, so being able to set it up, you know, and use that kickserve to be able to open up the court is also a great thing. And he can slide people off the court with the lefty serve, so variation is also a very important thing to have as a big server.

00:47:40
Speaker 1: That's what Serena always had. She had that slider why that she would hit after hitting like a one twenty down the tee. So variation is very important. But I think I think Ben's going to surprise. I think he's going to have a decent French Open.

00:47:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he's looked comfortable so far on the dirt this year. Question from Zach Eager, what's your tike on the state of end tennis and its placed in the tennis ecosystem. I'll answer that we love it, and we think it's amazing and it should take a more prominent space. What do you make of calls to restrict roster spots for international players? Zach, thank you so much for the question. I would refer you to the three or four episodes we did earlier this spring on this very subject itself, where we unpacked a lot of the goings on. So I'm gonna refer you to those so that I can ask Renee A great question from Anjuli who writes Two of my favorite creative players, Daria Kasatkina Gregor Dimitrov are struggling massively right now. Is that a post injury lag or does tennis karma no longer favor creative players in the latter half of their careers give us some hope that they will survive well.

00:48:43
Speaker 1: I don't think it's in lack of creativity, because obviously both of them do have that, and I think there is still a very much a world that needs that on the tennis courd and I think Variation will win a lot of matches.

00:48:54
Speaker 2: I think it just comes down to confidence, and neither of them have it right now.

00:48:57
Speaker 1: Kasakina just won a small tournament, A one twenty five on collect so her confidence is slowly getting back. So look out for her to have a decent French Open, because she does play well there. I think it's a matter for her. Her biggest issue has always been the serve. It's just crap. I don't know how and why she doesn't work on it. That would be the first thing I would do, because she has the ability to hit so many different shots, but her serve is just woeful and it just gets crushed with these women who were tall, big and strong that were to go after returns. It's what hurts Coco Gough as well, is the second serve. It's What's gotten her into a lot of trouble. If you look at the stats when she loses, she loses so many points on her second serve, whereas opponent doesn't do that as much. And with Grigor it's just I think he just he missed that unbelievable opportunity when he heard his arm against Janick Sinner at Wimbledon last year, and since then he's really struggled to get his confidence back. He doesn't have a big game and so his game is always predicated on really really playing with confidence, and sadly for him, that is not there. Hopefully, if he gets under the grass and plays as well as he did last year, maybe he can get that comnfidence back. But sadly, I think that is some that's just the nature of this business, of this sport. Once you lose your confidence, it's really hard to get it back, particularly when there's so many great players out there.

00:50:11
Speaker 2: It is the tennis is the hardest sport to be great at. It really is.

00:50:15
Speaker 1: So if you look at my Instagram, I think I posted something about that yesterday. It's like one and two billion, two million to be a professional, and it's the hardest one of all to be a professional, and so Gregor's finding that out sadly right now. Two more questions, Caitlin, are we done for this week? Because I know that you're going to be getting up at oh one more? One more this week?

00:50:37
Speaker 2: One more?

00:50:37
Speaker 3: We're popular this week. I think you're going to like it. And it's certainly something we've talked about before. But Becky Morgan wants to know right now, if you could pick any player from either tour to coach right now, who would it be and how This is the part that I really want to hear. How do you think you would help their game?

00:50:52
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a loaded question.

00:50:54
Speaker 1: I'll get in trouble half the time because you know, sometimes, Caitlin, when I say stuff, it goes all over the internet.

00:51:00
Speaker 2: Everyone just thinks that I just you know, Ah, So I don't know.

00:51:03
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I've said for years that I would love to coach Carolyn Mahovah, I would love to coach Haley Baptiste.

00:51:10
Speaker 2: And I think I say those players.

00:51:12
Speaker 1: Because they play an all court game kind of thing, and so I think just managing the way that they put those points together.

00:51:19
Speaker 2: I think Muhova with Sven Groenefeld is a good move. So that's all good.

00:51:23
Speaker 1: Someone like a Hailey Baptiste, I think I could help to when to sort of hit certain shots, when to come into the net, when not to, how to come into that a little bit better, how to just structure her points a little bit better, how to pick on somebody's weakness a little bit better. That's sort of like what I think what I do really well, and so those types of players would be great. I would love to have an opportunity also just to sit down with Coco for an hour just discuss certain things about her game and about what she thinks on the court, what she feels like she needs to get better at, and have a really sort of like heart to heart with her about those things. But you know, any of these players would be an opportunity to work with any of the top players to just to add a little extra. I think that's what I do well, is that I see where the sort of their bottom line is and where their top line could be and making them believe in themselves in that way. So you know, the question is great, The answer is loaded and long, and it could be so many of these top players. One player also that was mentioned in the questions I know was whereas Emma Navarro, that'd be a great player. I'd love to find out what's going on with Emma and sort of get her back on track a little bit. But look, there's so many great players out there, and as we've talked about over the last couple of weeks, hunger Games on the women's side, there's so many we could talk about and so many players that I would love to work with. But the bottom line is I'm here with you, Caitlin, and we're about to sit down and get ready to watch your two favorite weeks of the year, the tournament in Rolling Garros, which is still and will forever be to me, the French Open.

00:53:00
Speaker 3: All right, well, that's a great place to leave it. Thank you again for wonderful reader questions, Thank you for caring about tennis as much as we do. And we'll have to see you next week. We'll have a lot of Roland Garros excitement to discuss.

00:53:14
Speaker 2: Yes, we will looking forward to it.

00:53:17
Speaker 1: The first week the French is always great and the second week is even better, so we look forward to it. The French Open coming up, or Rolling Garros and Emily Moresmo. We're looking at you, We're looking at you scheduling all right. Everyone, We'll see you next week. Thanks for joining us today, Bye babe.