Ep:136 Return To The Portal with Brent Thomas

<v Speaker 1>What we do seem to know, at least with most
<v Speaker 1>encounter stories out there, if not all of them, is
<v Speaker 1>that they are at least a physical being. Sometimes or
<v Speaker 1>most of the time, they may be something else too,
<v Speaker 1>But I haven't witnessed that, I don't know enough about that,
<v Speaker 1>I don't understand the physics of that, or I can't
<v Speaker 1>quantify it mentally. But I can say they leave footprints,
<v Speaker 1>they've been observed eating, they break stuff, they break trees,
<v Speaker 1>they you know, they do alter the environment around them. Apparently,
<v Speaker 1>they terrorize people, they throw stuff. So those are all
<v Speaker 1>very physical acts. And let's focus on that at least
<v Speaker 1>to get the ball rolling and to continue to roll it,
<v Speaker 1>rather than diving right into all the way into the
<v Speaker 1>deep end of it like, well, they're nephelim, or they're
<v Speaker 1>you know, they're multi dimensional or you know whatever. They
<v Speaker 1>turn into orbs sometimes or they disappear or whatever. At
<v Speaker 1>least some more universal acknowledgment of the fact that something's
<v Speaker 1>out there and people are seeing it and these are
<v Speaker 1>very real experiences. Let's let's start the discussion there.
<v Speaker 2>This is Bigfoot Crossroads. My name is Matt and joining
<v Speaker 2>me on this special edition is a guest i've had
<v Speaker 2>on here before, a good friend of mine, the host
<v Speaker 2>of the Paranormal Portal podcast, mister Brent Thomas. Brent, thanks
<v Speaker 2>for joining me, man.
<v Speaker 1>Oh, it's pleasure to be here. Man, thanks for having me.
<v Speaker 1>It's always a blast to get together and talk with you.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we need to do it more often. I was
<v Speaker 2>glad you were able to arrange your schedule to get
<v Speaker 2>on here with me, and I look forward to jumping
<v Speaker 2>on with you in the near future as well.
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, man, we're going to be doing that soon. Do
<v Speaker 1>we have We have a schedule, don't we.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, next Monday, I think.
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Oh yeah, yeah, perfect. My schedule is always such
<v Speaker 1>a such a mess, but yeah, yeah, I get it.
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, Yeah, I'm really thrilled to be back and
<v Speaker 1>to be talking with you because you know, I've always
<v Speaker 1>I've always loved our discussions. You know, we've been both
<v Speaker 1>you and I have been at this for a little while.
<v Speaker 1>You've been here, You've been at it for quite a
<v Speaker 1>while longer than me. But you know this. The fields
<v Speaker 1>are always the landscape is always changing in these fields,
<v Speaker 1>you know.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and sometimes it's hard to keep up. I was
<v Speaker 2>just kind of looking at some stuff today, you know,
<v Speaker 2>it seems like it hasn't been that long since the
<v Speaker 2>theory was put out there about Bigfoot being Neffelin from
<v Speaker 2>the Bible, and this was something, you know, that's not
<v Speaker 2>a new theory by any means. It's just recently that
<v Speaker 2>it's actually got some legs under it and people have
<v Speaker 2>really kind of lashed onto it in some circles. And
<v Speaker 2>then the next thing, you know, it progressed kind of
<v Speaker 2>in my mind at least, the timeline kind of progressed
<v Speaker 2>it to dog Man, dog Man being Nephalem, and we
<v Speaker 2>you know, Reptilians or Nephlum, all these different cryptids historically cryptids,
<v Speaker 2>we're kind of getting thrown in the Nephlum camp. And
<v Speaker 2>now they're talking about clowns clowns being Nephilam or clowns
<v Speaker 2>representing Nephlin because the makeup and the big shoes and
<v Speaker 2>the big hands and everything are supposed to be sort
<v Speaker 2>of symbolic of the Nephilm. And I'm like, okay, well,
<v Speaker 2>what did the Nephylm look like then? Did they look
<v Speaker 2>like Bigfoot, dog Man, Reptilians or clowns. You have to
<v Speaker 2>kind of pick a lane, But it seems like everything's
<v Speaker 2>just kind of getting umped into the Nephelum slash demon camp.
<v Speaker 2>What do you think about all that stuff?
<v Speaker 1>You know? I guess the big thing for me is that, again,
<v Speaker 1>it's all individual conjecture, you know. I mean, it's somebody's idea,
<v Speaker 1>and I always have to wonder, well, how did you
<v Speaker 1>get there? And certainly we can, you know, you can
<v Speaker 1>look at biblical references and come up with a landscape
<v Speaker 1>for things, so to speak, But how do we know,
<v Speaker 1>how does anybody? How can you know? Again, first what
<v Speaker 1>did they look like? What do they look like? What
<v Speaker 1>are they alleged to look like? And how do you
<v Speaker 1>make that make that connection with any kind of with
<v Speaker 1>any kind of certainty? You know? I mean it's that
<v Speaker 1>that's the part that I think I always get stuck
<v Speaker 1>on it. And I'm not saying it couldn't be true.
<v Speaker 1>I just don't pretend to know. I don't know near
<v Speaker 1>enough about that kind of thing to say, well, that's
<v Speaker 1>definitely what these things are. But there seems to be
<v Speaker 1>those people that are They're like, well they're Nephelom. Well yeah,
<v Speaker 1>but how do you know? And I don't know that
<v Speaker 1>there's any way to know. And so that's where I'm
<v Speaker 1>at with it. It's like, you know, in doing this
<v Speaker 1>and doing these shows, I guess the big thing for
<v Speaker 1>me is I had to I had to come to
<v Speaker 1>recognize that there's so much I don't know and I
<v Speaker 1>don't pretend to know. And it always it's always concerning
<v Speaker 1>to me when people make definitive statements because we just
<v Speaker 1>don't know. And that's where I get stuck personally. And
<v Speaker 1>again it's not me saying, oh they're all wrong. There
<v Speaker 1>are a bunch of you know, a bunch of goofballs.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, they could be right. I just don't know.
<v Speaker 1>But the hard part for me is because something did happen,
<v Speaker 1>uh and and may certainly be a catalyst for other
<v Speaker 1>things to happen. How do you get all the way
<v Speaker 1>to well, that's what these are, you know what I mean?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Absolutely, I mean, like yourself and many others out there,
<v Speaker 2>one of the advantages that I saw with podcasting about
<v Speaker 2>these subjects is trying to find some answers, trying to
<v Speaker 2>get a better grasp and understanding. And the longer I
<v Speaker 2>do it, the more I realized that they're just the
<v Speaker 2>answers aren't there to be had. I don't think. I mean,
<v Speaker 2>you can get twenty different answers from twenty different people
<v Speaker 2>on you know, the same question.
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure, yeah, And exactly.
<v Speaker 2>Something else that I've noticed happening is how whenever I
<v Speaker 2>started this journey, specifically in the Bigfoot, I was going
<v Speaker 2>out into the field, I was doing investigations, you know,
<v Speaker 2>I was hitting the side and reports, talking to witnesses
<v Speaker 2>like that, and you had sort of the old school
<v Speaker 2>methodology going on, where the Internet was kind of in
<v Speaker 2>its infancy and you didn't have a lot of people
<v Speaker 2>on it, and a lot of people were separated. There
<v Speaker 2>was a lot of exchanging of information like there is today,
<v Speaker 2>not on the same scale, at least. The more that
<v Speaker 2>it did take place, the more websites that got built,
<v Speaker 2>and then podcasts start popping up, and YouTube gets popular
<v Speaker 2>and people start making videos on the subject. It's almost
<v Speaker 2>like that had a direct impact on how people were
<v Speaker 2>reporting things. And by that I mean the descriptions were
<v Speaker 2>starting to mimic the information being put out on the
<v Speaker 2>Internet and on all those different resources. Now you have
<v Speaker 2>the introduction of AI, and there is just a flood
<v Speaker 2>of AI images and videos out there, and of course
<v Speaker 2>cryptids and paranormal What else should we do with AI.
<v Speaker 2>Let's not solve cancer or anything like that. Let's make
<v Speaker 2>fake BIGFP videos and pictures. Do you think that's going
<v Speaker 2>to start influencing the descriptions that reports are giving or
<v Speaker 2>the going to start mimicking what the AI images look like?
<v Speaker 1>Probably to a degree, because I think that people generally
<v Speaker 1>work within their sphere of understanding, and unfortunately a large
<v Speaker 1>part of their sphere of understanding is going to be
<v Speaker 1>steered towards AI renderings, and so they're you know, they're
<v Speaker 1>they're probably going to to some degree. And I don't
<v Speaker 1>think it's intentional. I just think we all have a
<v Speaker 1>lens that we view the world in and it's and
<v Speaker 1>it's based largely on our paradigm, on you know, what
<v Speaker 1>we believe, what we believe we know, and our experience.
<v Speaker 1>And when when a large part of our experience, especially
<v Speaker 1>with this stuff, will come from fabrications, that's certainly going
<v Speaker 1>to influence people's perception to a degree, you know what
<v Speaker 1>I mean. It's like we filter things through our own filters,
<v Speaker 1>and that's where we get our understanding. And you know,
<v Speaker 1>it's like the ghosts, well, you know, something moved to
<v Speaker 1>my house, so I'm scared. So it's evil. It's got
<v Speaker 1>to be a demon, you know. And not everything's a demon,
<v Speaker 1>but that's the sphere, the sphere of understanding. It may
<v Speaker 1>be uncomfortable, so it must be horrible, you know. And
<v Speaker 1>and and that's that's kind of a generalized, you know, comparison.
<v Speaker 1>But I think I think it will probably because unless
<v Speaker 1>you've had a first hand account of your own prior
<v Speaker 1>to all this, you know, people are gonna see what
<v Speaker 1>they expect to see. And I think some of the stuff,
<v Speaker 1>you know, it's it's we do filter, we do take
<v Speaker 1>it through our lens, and we do interpret it through
<v Speaker 1>our belief systems. And that's why maybe again where the
<v Speaker 1>idea of Nephelin comes from, because there's a lot of
<v Speaker 1>religious backgrounds and a lot of people, well that's you know,
<v Speaker 1>the need, the need to understand things, I think is
<v Speaker 1>really a huge part of what motivates people in a
<v Speaker 1>lot of cases. They need to understand things that they
<v Speaker 1>you know, they dig and they want to they want
<v Speaker 1>to learn. And certainly, I don't know if I'm talking
<v Speaker 1>in circles, but I guess what I'm trying to say yes.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this is what happens whenever you and I talk.
<v Speaker 2>We don't really know where the conversation is going to go,
<v Speaker 2>but it's going to end up.
<v Speaker 1>Somewhere, right. But you know, I think that the amount
<v Speaker 1>of hoaxery and fakery and stuff that I mean, that's
<v Speaker 1>nothing new. There's been fake ghost photos since there's been photography,
<v Speaker 1>you know. I mean, there's you know, the dark room
<v Speaker 1>magics that happened with the you know, developing plates and
<v Speaker 1>film and and stuff into the AI of today. So
<v Speaker 1>I don't think a lot of that. I mean, it's
<v Speaker 1>certainly going to be more prolific than ever before, because
<v Speaker 1>anybody with a you know, with a laptop or a
<v Speaker 1>computer or even a tablet can AI something really convincing.
<v Speaker 1>You remember those images that came out kind of all
<v Speaker 1>of a sudden, just all of a sudden. Well, I know,
<v Speaker 1>this guy whose cousin you know, over in Kentucky found
<v Speaker 1>a jar in his backyard and he dug it out,
<v Speaker 1>and it had this photo of foot posing with some
<v Speaker 1>old loggers, all those sepia toned antique kind of pictures,
<v Speaker 1>and I was I was kind of shocked and kind
<v Speaker 1>of dismayed. How many people were willing to jump on
<v Speaker 1>that and just like, oh, there you go, there's a
<v Speaker 1>great picture. There's not that's not blurry at all. It's like,
<v Speaker 1>oh yeah, because it's like yesterday.
<v Speaker 2>Old well like that uh that image that's going around.
<v Speaker 2>I just saw it again today. It's been making the
<v Speaker 2>rounds again and it just won't go away. Where it's
<v Speaker 2>like the old bearded hunter that looks like Uncle Cy
<v Speaker 2>from Duck Dynasty, you know, pointing at the Bigfoot he's
<v Speaker 2>taking a selfie with, and people are like still just
<v Speaker 2>buying into that. They're just all in with it.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And just just imagine like in every in every
<v Speaker 1>witness testimony, the the idea of stopping for a selfie
<v Speaker 1>just ever in that it's like, oh my god, you know,
<v Speaker 1>let's let's make sure to get selfie quick.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They won't go in front of game cameras because
<v Speaker 2>they know what cameras are and they don't want to
<v Speaker 2>have their photo taken and they can make electronics stop working,
<v Speaker 2>but they're going to stop and take a selfie with
<v Speaker 2>this guy.
<v Speaker 1>It's just not I mean, and that you know again
<v Speaker 1>looking at a body that the known body of reports
<v Speaker 1>that I'm familiar with like ninety nine percent of them
<v Speaker 1>are like literally three seconds long at the most. At
<v Speaker 1>the long end, it's there and boom, it's gone, and
<v Speaker 1>and you know, pulling out the phone. That's you know,
<v Speaker 1>one of my big contentions with people, like there's phones everywhere,
<v Speaker 1>why don't tell me to get a picture. It's like, literally,
<v Speaker 1>when you see something like this, you don't know if
<v Speaker 1>you're on the menu, or if it's going to you know,
<v Speaker 1>pound you in into pudding, or or if it's just
<v Speaker 1>going to go on its way. You don't know which
<v Speaker 1>part you're getting. And so the last thing you're thinking
<v Speaker 1>of is I better make sure to get this on camera. People,
<v Speaker 1>people that has like even even guns and stuff, say,
<v Speaker 1>I forgot I even had a gun, you know.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, so every I had there was absolutely no
<v Speaker 2>thought ever of documentation, Like there was no like, hey
<v Speaker 2>take a picture, there's nothing. It's just like you go
<v Speaker 2>into the state of shock and nobody. I haven't at
<v Speaker 2>least I haven't met anyone that can break that mental barrier,
<v Speaker 2>you know, right.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, because I do think that they have a
<v Speaker 1>you know, a strong for propensity at least well they
<v Speaker 1>at least have this have a definite ability to be
<v Speaker 1>incredibly lethal. I mean just a heartbeat, they could just
<v Speaker 1>destroy somebody. So that's got to be on that you know,
<v Speaker 1>self preservation's got to be right on the top there.
<v Speaker 2>It should be.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, not not my you know, not Instagram. It's a
<v Speaker 1>mind boggler, but yeah, the AI is definitely going to
<v Speaker 1>be an issue, and it continues to be an issue.
<v Speaker 1>The thing that I always that one of the big
<v Speaker 1>metrics that I always apply with it is like, first
<v Speaker 1>of all, these things pop out of nowhere and they're
<v Speaker 1>these incredibly robust images. You know, even if they look antique,
<v Speaker 1>they're not antique. But it's kind of like the orgy
<v Speaker 1>of evidence, Like you know, you know something is staged
<v Speaker 1>in homicide investigations when it's just too damn easy and
<v Speaker 1>there's just not an not enough compelling information to bring
<v Speaker 1>you down that train, but everything just laying right out
<v Speaker 1>there for you to discover it and come to a
<v Speaker 1>fixed conclusion. And this is no different than the AI stuff.
<v Speaker 1>It's like this is the orgy of evidence. It's like, well,
<v Speaker 1>really you just found that in a jar in your backyard,
<v Speaker 1>and wow, it just happened to be bigfoot pictures and
<v Speaker 1>and they're still in really good condition. You know, I
<v Speaker 1>don't get it.
<v Speaker 2>And they happen to be in a phone screen sized
<v Speaker 2>resolution and sizing. How convenient.
<v Speaker 1>Yep, it's absolutely perfectly crop. They were really forward thinking
<v Speaker 1>back then.
<v Speaker 2>So the last time we talked, I think you were
<v Speaker 2>messing around with some ghost box stuff in your studio.
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right. I haven't done
<v Speaker 1>a lot of that since this. This the house that
<v Speaker 1>I'm in, actually has a reasonable amount of back activity
<v Speaker 1>and it's not like creepy or horrible. It's just things
<v Speaker 1>just happen around here. But I was getting some pretty
<v Speaker 1>crazy stuff. Brother, I was really surprised.
<v Speaker 2>So what do you This just kind of popped in
<v Speaker 2>my head. So the whole concept of a ghost box
<v Speaker 2>is that whatever these things are out there that we
<v Speaker 2>call ghosts can manipulate the instrumentation to give responses.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's the idea, and I'll be the first to
<v Speaker 1>admit I have I like with There's a there's a
<v Speaker 1>tool called nonobulous. It's basically a word database that you know,
<v Speaker 1>spirits are potentially able to utilize their energy and to
<v Speaker 1>choose words. And to me, that doesn't make a lot
<v Speaker 1>of sense. I'll be the first to admit, like where
<v Speaker 1>do they learn this? Because how do they know what
<v Speaker 1>energy is going to equal what word? And how do
<v Speaker 1>they know how to influence their energy to create words
<v Speaker 1>in this? You know, like where's the learning curve? Like
<v Speaker 1>are they just instantly they know, oh, that's I'm going
<v Speaker 1>to make the word? Hey, I want a sandwich?
<v Speaker 2>You know?
<v Speaker 1>How do you do that? So some of that is
<v Speaker 1>is a little out there, but I do think that
<v Speaker 1>there is there is the potential that over a course
<v Speaker 1>of time, perhaps they could learn how to And I've
<v Speaker 1>used phone apps, I've used actual you know, equipment like
<v Speaker 1>EMF detectors like you know. I've used ovulous before, which
<v Speaker 1>is the word database thing where they can you know,
<v Speaker 1>you carried around as a little box with words on
<v Speaker 1>it and they can they apparently can influence it and
<v Speaker 1>use energy. I've used you know, just what are they
<v Speaker 1>called rempods. I have a rempod and had some really
<v Speaker 1>cool things happen. A pyramid that gives you a green
<v Speaker 1>and a red light on each side that is motion
<v Speaker 1>activated where I've seen it, you know, triggered and had
<v Speaker 1>really cool things happen, not necessarily in the house for
<v Speaker 1>all of them. But but there's other other things, so
<v Speaker 1>it's hard to understand how how they do. But I
<v Speaker 1>will tell you that with some of those apps, like
<v Speaker 1>with some of the phone apps I've I've had them
<v Speaker 1>just go bonkers, like spitting out just absolute strings of nonsense, NonStop,
<v Speaker 1>like blah blah, and it's like, God, it's not supposed
<v Speaker 1>to do this, what is it? What is it doing?
<v Speaker 1>But then I started thinking, well, maybe maybe this is
<v Speaker 1>that learning curve, Like it's just you know, just creating
<v Speaker 1>all kinds of energy or whatever and creating words from
<v Speaker 1>using a magnetometer built into all phones and all wireless
<v Speaker 1>equipments that can detect electromagnetic variations and alterations. And that's
<v Speaker 1>how ghost radars work. That's how a lot of these uh,
<v Speaker 1>you know apps work, is they're they're measuring the e
<v Speaker 1>M field and responding with some kind of feedback. But
<v Speaker 1>I think over time, I think with these equipments, when
<v Speaker 1>you have it, when it because I think the person
<v Speaker 1>has to be an integral part in this, you know,
<v Speaker 1>it's I don't know what it is. But the one
<v Speaker 1>of the one of the fathers of VP research said,
<v Speaker 1>if you use an app if you use something like this,
<v Speaker 1>keep using it, because it'll become more and more valid
<v Speaker 1>over time. Like there's some kind of continuity that happens,
<v Speaker 1>and maybe the people are somehow a part of that
<v Speaker 1>circuit or what. I don't pretend to know for sure,
<v Speaker 1>but I have noticed that over time, these same pieces
<v Speaker 1>of equipment seem to get more accurate in responding intelligent
<v Speaker 1>in seemingly intelligent ways, And I find that really interesting.
<v Speaker 1>But you know, to take something out of the box
<v Speaker 1>and say, well, here, here it is, you go to
<v Speaker 1>it like an old West, you know, an old ghost town,
<v Speaker 1>an Old West ghost town or something, put out this
<v Speaker 1>piece of equipment, say use your energy, you can make words,
<v Speaker 1>and then then they do well. I don't know. I
<v Speaker 1>think that's could be a lot of creative editing. It
<v Speaker 1>could be somewhat legitimate. Maybe they're used to it just
<v Speaker 1>seeing so many people come through with equipment and like
<v Speaker 1>popular locations, maybe they do learn that stuff over time.
<v Speaker 1>But I don't know. I mean, there's there's certainly a
<v Speaker 1>lot of questions with it. But I think if you get,
<v Speaker 1>if you can, if you can, one thing that I'd
<v Speaker 1>like to advocate in investigating like that is don't trust
<v Speaker 1>any one piece of equipment at all. Have different different modalities,
<v Speaker 1>like a flashlight test along with an EMF detector, along
<v Speaker 1>with perhaps a nobulous perhaps you know other even those
<v Speaker 1>cat balls, you know, those flashing catballs that require those things.
<v Speaker 1>I'm telling you, I've seen some really crazy stuff on
<v Speaker 1>investigations with those that I'm like, wow, that even here
<v Speaker 1>in the even here in the studio when I was
<v Speaker 1>doing that. So I think that I think that's some
<v Speaker 1>of the I mean, it's a pseudoscience at best, but
<v Speaker 1>sometimes you do get a a real cool chain of
<v Speaker 1>events that happen. It's like, God, I really can't explain
<v Speaker 1>that now. It could it be something else, Sure, it
<v Speaker 1>could be any number of things. Hell, maybe there's you know,
<v Speaker 1>the possibility that somehow we're manifesting it ourselves. But it
<v Speaker 1>is pretty pretty exciting, I think, to potentially be making
<v Speaker 1>contact with other stuff, you know, other intelligences. You know.
<v Speaker 1>I understand some some belief systems would say, well, you know,
<v Speaker 1>that's got to be evil. Well, I don't pretend to no,
<v Speaker 1>but I'm not asking it, you know, to give me advice.
<v Speaker 1>Hey are you here? I'm not gonna I'm not going
<v Speaker 1>to say, hey, you know, help me plot the course
<v Speaker 1>of my existence. No, you know, I'm not putting putting
<v Speaker 1>that kind of credibility into it, but I find it.
<v Speaker 1>I love investigating that, I really do. I just think
<v Speaker 1>it's such a neat thing. It's such an amazing opportunity
<v Speaker 1>to potentially make contact with other intelligences out there.
<v Speaker 2>To be clear, when we talk about cat balls, we're
<v Speaker 2>talking about cat toys, little clear, light up plastic balls
<v Speaker 2>that cats play with. They're sold as an item for
<v Speaker 2>your cat to play with and their motion activated, and
<v Speaker 2>the paranormal community has embraced them. No cats are being
<v Speaker 2>harmed in any paranormal research that I'm aware.
<v Speaker 1>Of, and no testicles are actively being used.
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, they say cats can sense spirits,
<v Speaker 2>so maybe you're onto something with that.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know, but I'll tell you what I
<v Speaker 1>like one time in my studio, and I don't do
<v Speaker 1>much investigating here anymore because there is some really strange stuff.
<v Speaker 1>But I think of that by doing it, you're probably
<v Speaker 1>encouraging that presence, and you're maybe giving because I believe,
<v Speaker 1>you know, just speaking in terms of spirits, I think
<v Speaker 1>there's definitely a flow to hauntings, and they do seem
<v Speaker 1>to at least require some kind of play permission before
<v Speaker 1>it can escalate by the people that live there. And
<v Speaker 1>sometimes that implied permission comes in the form of fear.
<v Speaker 1>Like when you feel fear, you are it is a
<v Speaker 1>form of surrender. You're basically saying, hey, you know, I
<v Speaker 1>don't know what this is. It's scaring me. It's freaking
<v Speaker 1>me out, and I don't like it. You feel powerless,
<v Speaker 1>and that might be part of the permission, or just
<v Speaker 1>encouraging it by investigating and asking it to answer that
<v Speaker 1>might be an implied permission as well. But there does
<v Speaker 1>seem to be something to that that, you know, hauntings
<v Speaker 1>don't start out with hey, it's going right from zero
<v Speaker 1>to you know, Poltergeist the movie. It's it's this progression
<v Speaker 1>and it seems to escalate given you know a certain
<v Speaker 1>certain factors, and one of them, again I think, is fear.
<v Speaker 1>Another one is, you know, people investigating their own homes,
<v Speaker 1>like with with looking for EVPs, like you know, if
<v Speaker 1>you're here, talk to me, or weed you boards, or
<v Speaker 1>God only knows what else you know? So I think
<v Speaker 1>that by virtue of investigating, you can empower or activity,
<v Speaker 1>and I think that that you have to be really
<v Speaker 1>cautious with that, you know, because you don't know what
<v Speaker 1>you're talking to. You don't know what you're dealing with.
<v Speaker 1>It could just be a benign spirit or God forbid,
<v Speaker 1>it could be something horribly evil. You just don't know.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's funny. I actually, at one point in time
<v Speaker 2>had bought a little digital hand held handheld recorder with
<v Speaker 2>the intentions of conducting some EVP stuff at my house.
<v Speaker 2>I never did it. I never did it. Well, I
<v Speaker 2>was like, you know, what, do I really want to
<v Speaker 2>do this? And I decided against it.
<v Speaker 1>I think that's probably a better choice. Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, my house has always had activity before I was
<v Speaker 2>ever born. There is activity happening at this location. And
<v Speaker 2>it's really strange because it seems to be very distinctive
<v Speaker 2>different things going on. And while some of them are
<v Speaker 2>somewhat friendly, I mean, I wouldn't really call it friendly,
<v Speaker 2>but they're just you know, non benevolent. Right, there's at
<v Speaker 2>least another one that absolutely terrified people, and that one
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to have anything to do with. Fortunately,
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't seem to be around anymore. I don't know
<v Speaker 2>how that works, but the activity has definitely decreased over
<v Speaker 2>the years. We still get bumps and noises and stuff
<v Speaker 2>every now and then, and every once in a while
<v Speaker 2>there will be something where we're just like, what is
<v Speaker 2>going on here, But for the most parts it ceased.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think. I think investigating on your own is
<v Speaker 1>always a danger because you got to live there. I mean,
<v Speaker 1>if you go to a location, you get to go home,
<v Speaker 1>you get to go back to your safe space, to
<v Speaker 1>the sanctity of your own home. But if you're encouraging
<v Speaker 1>activity in your own home, then you know, what are
<v Speaker 1>you encouraging and who is it? You know, that's big
<v Speaker 1>question with all of this. But yeah, it's some crazy stuff.
<v Speaker 1>But again, I love doing it. I would still do
<v Speaker 1>it here, but you know, I got a wife and
<v Speaker 1>kid too, you know, so I can't. I can't just
<v Speaker 1>be like, oh more me now. They got to live
<v Speaker 1>here too, and that's not fair. So I've kind of
<v Speaker 1>quit doing that in the house just because I got
<v Speaker 1>tired of having to cleanse my own space with like
<v Speaker 1>Frank and and all kinds of different practices. So yeah,
<v Speaker 1>which you know, which is taking care of it. And
<v Speaker 1>it's been peaceful, but it was getting at a little
<v Speaker 1>nerve wracking there for a while. One time I had
<v Speaker 1>this phone app and it's and I've meant to reach
<v Speaker 1>out to the manufacturer of it. I haven't yet, but
<v Speaker 1>and this is live on a show. I was just
<v Speaker 1>tested out. Most of that started as just me wanting
<v Speaker 1>to demonstrate techniques that are used in investigating on my
<v Speaker 1>live show. It wasn't meant to like, you know, actually
<v Speaker 1>have some profound experiences happened. But one time I was
<v Speaker 1>utilizing an app called Ghost Spirit Spirit Talker is what
<v Speaker 1>it's called. I still have the app, but I was
<v Speaker 1>doing it here live on the show, and I was like,
<v Speaker 1>you know, just talking and I swear to God, and
<v Speaker 1>I know they use a word database, but the only
<v Speaker 1>thing that would spit out and I had to google
<v Speaker 1>everything it said, or my listeners did. Some of my
<v Speaker 1>mods were googling it as it happened. But it only
<v Speaker 1>spit out ancient Latin. Always yeah, I mean only ancient Latin.
<v Speaker 1>And it wasn't like I tweaked it and hit the
<v Speaker 1>wrong language button. It's just an English speaking app. And
<v Speaker 1>I was like, what in the hell is going on?
<v Speaker 1>And some of the things it was saying was I
<v Speaker 1>mean It wasn't like anything like hey burn in Hell.
<v Speaker 1>It was just some weird mysterious things that it was
<v Speaker 1>thrown out. But it was all in ancient Latin, not
<v Speaker 1>like you know, a Latin based language, but it was
<v Speaker 1>ancient Latin. It's like, oh God, what.
<v Speaker 2>Conjuring a demon?
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, wait a minute, what have I done?
<v Speaker 2>So? Uh?
<v Speaker 1>And even even at my like my view count went
<v Speaker 1>down like it worked rapidly like it. It definitely exercised them
<v Speaker 1>listeners because they they got uncomfortable. I was uncomfortable, and
<v Speaker 1>I was like, Okay, well, I think we better not
<v Speaker 1>do this.
<v Speaker 2>So there would STOs to be some like overlap going
<v Speaker 2>on between different fields of study. Things aren't quite as
<v Speaker 2>defined as they used to be. Bigfoot, for instance, is
<v Speaker 2>no longer just some undiscovered ape, you know, a primate
<v Speaker 2>living off the land. There's a large section of the
<v Speaker 2>population believes that there's something paranormal involved with Bigfoot. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>what are your thoughts on that?
<v Speaker 1>So here's my thoughts on that. And I've thought about
<v Speaker 1>this a lot because I I've talked to plenty of
<v Speaker 1>people that have had the paranormal Bigfoot experiences too, and
<v Speaker 1>I and I I I realize that I'm not qualified
<v Speaker 1>to say no, you're absolutely wrong or yes, you're absolutely right.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what to do with those. But what
<v Speaker 1>I do, what I do try to stay focused on
<v Speaker 1>is the fact that, look, I think the first step
<v Speaker 1>in this it's kind of got to have a flow
<v Speaker 1>to it. And I'll give an example at the end.
<v Speaker 1>It's one that I've used a bunch of my own show.
<v Speaker 1>But to me, it's important because I think right now
<v Speaker 1>the subject of bigfoot is certainly much bigger than it's
<v Speaker 1>ever been. It's much more socially acceptable. I mean, my god,
<v Speaker 1>I live in the north tip of Idaho and you
<v Speaker 1>can drive anywhere at any time and you're going to
<v Speaker 1>pass trucks and cars with big foot stickers on the
<v Speaker 1>windows and stuff. I mean, it's just really huge up
<v Speaker 1>here anyway. And as far as I understand, it's kind
<v Speaker 1>of like that, everywhere you're going to see bigfoot stickers.
<v Speaker 1>So I think people have come to terms with the
<v Speaker 1>fact that hey, maybe something's out there, or maybe this
<v Speaker 1>is really a real thing, at least more than ever before.
<v Speaker 1>But it becomes kind of a cautionary tale because as
<v Speaker 1>people are coming into this discussion, I don't think that's
<v Speaker 1>the time to talk about And they turn into light balls,
<v Speaker 1>and they are you know, they portal in and out,
<v Speaker 1>or they ride flying saucers, or you know, any number
<v Speaker 1>of the other ideas out there. And and again I
<v Speaker 1>can't say that those are either right or wrong. I
<v Speaker 1>just don't know what to do with it. But I
<v Speaker 1>like to focus on the fact that, look, what we
<v Speaker 1>do seem to know, at least with most encounter stories
<v Speaker 1>out there, if not all of them, is that they
<v Speaker 1>are at least a physical being and sometimes or most
<v Speaker 1>of the time like they may be something else too,
<v Speaker 1>But I haven't witnessed that. I don't know enough about that.
<v Speaker 1>I don't understand the physics of that, or I can't
<v Speaker 1>quantify it mentally. But I can say they leave footprints,
<v Speaker 1>they've been observed eating, they break stuff, they break trees,
<v Speaker 1>they you know, they do alter the environment around them.
<v Speaker 1>Apparently they tear people, they throw stuff. So those are
<v Speaker 1>all very physical acts. And let's focus on that at
<v Speaker 1>least to get the ball rolling and to continue to
<v Speaker 1>roll it, rather than diving right into all the way
<v Speaker 1>into the deep end of it, like, well, they're nephelim
<v Speaker 1>or they're you know, their multi dimensional or you know whatever.
<v Speaker 1>They turn into orbs sometimes or they disappear or whatever,
<v Speaker 1>because I think the first step is to get at
<v Speaker 1>least some more universal acknowledgment of the fact that something's
<v Speaker 1>out there and people are seeing it and these are
<v Speaker 1>very real experiences. Let's let's start the discussion there. The
<v Speaker 1>example that I was going to give you and I'm
<v Speaker 1>going to give you now is I think it was
<v Speaker 1>twenty ten the disclosure hearings from Stephen Greer to the
<v Speaker 1>in Washington, d C. At the Press Club. It wasn't
<v Speaker 1>an actual hearing, but he had congressmen and women there
<v Speaker 1>and was presenting all these witnesses and some of them
<v Speaker 1>were you know, ex military, high ranking military, they're professional pilots,
<v Speaker 1>they are you know, any number of people from different
<v Speaker 1>walks of life that had these incredible encounters, presenting, you know,
<v Speaker 1>to these congress people that showed up, and you can
<v Speaker 1>see that, you know, as you looked at when they'd
<v Speaker 1>panned to these congressional members, surprising their eyes like oh wow,
<v Speaker 1>you know, there might be really something going on out here,
<v Speaker 1>and it seemed like the conversation was really progressing incredibly well.
<v Speaker 1>But then Paul Hellier, who was the former Minister of
<v Speaker 1>Defense in Canada, got the mic, and that's when he
<v Speaker 1>chose to go, well, not only are there here, but
<v Speaker 1>there's like probably about twelve or more different races that
<v Speaker 1>are living here among us. And it's like, oh, too soon, Paul,
<v Speaker 1>too soon, Let's not go there yet. Let's stop. Let's
<v Speaker 1>stop because these people may be able to move the
<v Speaker 1>ball forward if there's enough pressure. But he went right
<v Speaker 1>to deep left and I was like, God, that that's
<v Speaker 1>just not the right timing for them. And he's passed
<v Speaker 1>away now, and God bless him. And you know, I
<v Speaker 1>appreciate his efforts in all of that, but I just
<v Speaker 1>don't think that was the forum. That wasn't the place
<v Speaker 1>to dump that much information in right or wrong, you know.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you've got to have an audiences that is
<v Speaker 1>prepared for that kind of information. And I think the
<v Speaker 1>same is true for the metaphysical Bigfoot or the you know,
<v Speaker 1>the esoteric Bigfoot or the intergalactic Bigfoot, whatever they are.
<v Speaker 1>I think that there may be very well be merit
<v Speaker 1>to that, but I just think it's too soon, at
<v Speaker 1>least in a large forums for that kind of discussion.
<v Speaker 1>We just don't know anything that.
<v Speaker 2>It's so polarized. I mean, as much as politics are
<v Speaker 2>even there will be people that I see comments on
<v Speaker 2>my own podcast where someone will talk about something, you know,
<v Speaker 2>a portal for instance, and there will be someone that
<v Speaker 2>will leave a comment as soon as they mentioned portal,
<v Speaker 2>I turned it off. They're not even willing to listen
<v Speaker 2>to that. And then on the same token, on the
<v Speaker 2>flip side of the coin, there will be people who
<v Speaker 2>if I have, you know, someone on that's like, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>they're flesh and blood, they're an undiscovered primate. You know,
<v Speaker 2>we need to get a body, you'll get comments saying, oh, well,
<v Speaker 2>that person just doesn't even know. They're just clueless, you know. So,
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's just the way things are now, and
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure that it's something we can ever get past.
<v Speaker 2>First off, a big problem I have with a lot
<v Speaker 2>of stuff, and it's not just in Bigfoot but all
<v Speaker 2>over the places. I want to know, why, how did
<v Speaker 2>we reach this point where we decided that Bigfoot was
<v Speaker 2>doing this? We just present the evidence and say, look
<v Speaker 2>what Bigfoot did, Well, why do you think Bigfoot did that?
<v Speaker 2>You know, and whatever it is. If you're going out
<v Speaker 2>gifting if you're finding limb for me, if you were
<v Speaker 2>communicating with glyphs on the ground, you know, whatever it is,
<v Speaker 2>why do you think a bigfoot did that? If you
<v Speaker 2>didn't observe the bigfoot, do it just because that's your tint.
<v Speaker 2>And the same thing is with the paranormal and everything
<v Speaker 2>else out there that falls into this category of you know,
<v Speaker 2>unexplained phenomenon.
<v Speaker 1>Right right, And you're right, there's a strong confirmation bias
<v Speaker 1>in the entire paranormal umbrella, you know, like the true
<v Speaker 1>believers are always going to be true believers and they're
<v Speaker 1>going to be attributing everything to what they want it
<v Speaker 1>to be. And you're right, if you haven't observed it,
<v Speaker 1>you really can't. You can't objectively state that this happened
<v Speaker 1>because of so and so or this or that. Now,
<v Speaker 1>you could look for corroborating evidence, much like a crime scene.
<v Speaker 1>It's like, well, obviously you know something horrible happened here,
<v Speaker 1>and we know this, this and this, Like you know, okay,
<v Speaker 1>you found glyphs, must be bigfoot. But you can maybe
<v Speaker 1>get closer to that if you find a track right
<v Speaker 1>now there or or some other piece of evidence that
<v Speaker 1>definitely steers it towards Yeah, it could very well be right.
<v Speaker 1>But to just jump right to that, you know, it's
<v Speaker 1>it's tough. You know, again, we see what we want
<v Speaker 1>to see, we get back to that original thing, right,
<v Speaker 1>that original statement with the AI. It's like people are
<v Speaker 1>going to see what they want to see, or they're
<v Speaker 1>at least going to interpret it how they want to
<v Speaker 1>interpret it, and that's that's not good, bad, or otherwise.
<v Speaker 1>But I think it's it's dishonest to say that that's
<v Speaker 1>not the case, you know, because I do. I have
<v Speaker 1>a confirmation bias too, but I always check it. I
<v Speaker 1>do my best, always check it versus logic, versus you know,
<v Speaker 1>what can I see? How can I corroborate it? You know,
<v Speaker 1>before I jump on and say this is absolutely what
<v Speaker 1>it is. And I do that a lot on my show,
<v Speaker 1>the Live shows. You know, we will present some form
<v Speaker 1>of evidence, maybe through a news article or whatever, or
<v Speaker 1>you know, a purported clip that's supposed to be depicting something.
<v Speaker 1>There's a ton of those out there, just these hopes
<v Speaker 1>see pieces of crap, and you know, I mean, you
<v Speaker 1>just can't. You can't lose objective thinking. You can't. You
<v Speaker 1>can't turn off logic and at least testing your idea
<v Speaker 1>against what you can observe and then you know, challenge it.
<v Speaker 1>I think, you know anytime, I've always said that that
<v Speaker 1>evidence should look like evidence, like in meaning, you don't
<v Speaker 1>need a red circle, you don't need an explanation. You
<v Speaker 1>can show something and go well, that clearly is is
<v Speaker 1>something remarkable. But at the same time, I think you
<v Speaker 1>do have to look at things through the eyes of
<v Speaker 1>a skeptic, because if what you what you're having doesn't
<v Speaker 1>stand up to any kind of scrutiny, then it's not
<v Speaker 1>really evidence.
<v Speaker 2>There has to be a way to advocate for the
<v Speaker 2>witnesses in this field, like yourself. I'm a person who's
<v Speaker 2>experienced things. It's I know that there's something there. I
<v Speaker 2>can't tell you what it is, but I've had my experiences.
<v Speaker 2>But now it seems like the enthusiasts, the non experiencers,
<v Speaker 2>have kind of got the loudest voice and have taken
<v Speaker 2>the forefront in determining theories and you know, coming up
<v Speaker 2>with answers as to what it is what and telling
<v Speaker 2>everybody this is the way it is thought. Podcasts are
<v Speaker 2>very largely to blame for that. I'm just putting it
<v Speaker 2>out there. I'm just putting it out there. There's a
<v Speaker 2>lot of people that refer to Storytime podcasts as their
<v Speaker 2>source of reference material to supply answers on the internet. Sure,
<v Speaker 2>how do we ever get past that? Man? How do
<v Speaker 2>we get back to you know, hey, let's take this
<v Speaker 2>one piece at a time, and even if we don't
<v Speaker 2>get the results we want, or we don't get any
<v Speaker 2>results at all, we just be honest about it. We
<v Speaker 2>don't need to just imagine the answers to everything and
<v Speaker 2>point everything towards it, you know, steer all of our
<v Speaker 2>evidence towards it. Is it even possible to do at
<v Speaker 2>this point? Or has the whole thing ran away on
<v Speaker 2>its own?
<v Speaker 1>I just think it's it's there's always going to be
<v Speaker 1>factions and everything. Hell, there's factions in religion, you know,
<v Speaker 1>and in everything we do, there's factions. It's just kind
<v Speaker 1>of a human trait. I wish, I wish we could
<v Speaker 1>get everybody to think that, you know, let's let's let's
<v Speaker 1>apply logic, let's apply some testing, let's get back to that.
<v Speaker 1>But you know, I think by virtue of us just
<v Speaker 1>at least at least putting it out there with the
<v Speaker 1>with the reach that we have, I guess that helps
<v Speaker 1>because I think there's a lot of people that are
<v Speaker 1>looking at a lot of this stuff going, yeah, I'm
<v Speaker 1>not with that. I'm not with that. And and you knows,
<v Speaker 1>as the message reached more and more. But but again,
<v Speaker 1>people will see what they want to see. They'll believe
<v Speaker 1>what they want to believe. But so can you get
<v Speaker 1>it all reset now? But then again, you know, could
<v Speaker 1>you ever with anything in the human race? Really? Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>you know, I love to say that. Yeah, I mean
<v Speaker 1>many people have tried. Oh you know, dictators have tried,
<v Speaker 1>and monarchies have tried, and certainly, you know, people will
<v Speaker 1>tow a line up to a point. But you know,
<v Speaker 1>at some point, I think, I think eventually, you know,
<v Speaker 1>most people get there, after they've they've gone down the
<v Speaker 1>rabbit holes. I mean, I would be lying to say
<v Speaker 1>that my own views haven't haven't you know, evolved through
<v Speaker 1>the years and through the you know, through the course
<v Speaker 1>of doing all of this and all of the research,
<v Speaker 1>all the conversations, all the interviews and all of the
<v Speaker 1>you know, just sitting thinking about this stuff because I
<v Speaker 1>really am kind of obsessive about this stuff, you know,
<v Speaker 1>in my own life, and so I'm always pondering ideas.
<v Speaker 1>But I guess probably you know, you reach a point,
<v Speaker 1>I think you come into a hubris for a while,
<v Speaker 1>and you think I got this all sorted, and then
<v Speaker 1>as you dig deeper and deeper, you realize, yeah, I
<v Speaker 1>don't know anything, and nobody knows anything. I can't tell you,
<v Speaker 1>you know, in my earlier, earlier version of my life,
<v Speaker 1>I was really going down a lot of rabbit holes
<v Speaker 1>with you know, like like, for instance, like the New
<v Speaker 1>Age thinking and stuff like that, and esoteric ideas and
<v Speaker 1>beliefs and energy and all that stuff. And I think
<v Speaker 1>that there's merit to it, and I'm not poop pooing
<v Speaker 1>it all. But I can't tell you how many people
<v Speaker 1>that I read books or observed videos or whatever through
<v Speaker 1>the years where these masters or you know, these ascended
<v Speaker 1>beings you know, allegedly and stuff, and then to see
<v Speaker 1>the floor go out from under them, or you know,
<v Speaker 1>faith healers even you know, in some religious circles and stuff,
<v Speaker 1>and they're purporting to be this something, and then sooner
<v Speaker 1>or later their illusions fail and then you just realize
<v Speaker 1>they're just in the flowed person, and you know, maybe
<v Speaker 1>they're trying to do good things, but it's just, you know,
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I think that you do have to
<v Speaker 1>reach a point of going, yeah, I don't know anything.
<v Speaker 1>And maybe that's Buddhism, kind of a Buddhist thing, like, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>the only real thing is to know that you don't know.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. That's kind of circular thinking in a way,
<v Speaker 1>but I think that's kind of the nature of all this.
<v Speaker 1>I would love to know all of these answers, and
<v Speaker 1>that's why I'm on this journey. Honestly. I really want
<v Speaker 1>to understand because I have experienced things, and like you,
<v Speaker 1>you know, you've experienced a lot of things as well,
<v Speaker 1>and you're in a journey too, and it would be
<v Speaker 1>wonderful to get to a point where you could say, well,
<v Speaker 1>I know what this is, what this is, what this is.
<v Speaker 1>But I just don't know that that's possible. But I
<v Speaker 1>love the journey, you.
<v Speaker 2>Know, right right? Is there an I hate doing this
<v Speaker 2>question because I know, is there an episode of your
<v Speaker 2>own that comes to mind where you were interviewing someone
<v Speaker 2>or having a conversation with someone and it really kind
<v Speaker 2>of changed your direction on something or just had a
<v Speaker 2>profound impact on you.
<v Speaker 1>I honestly, there was one gentleman I was talking to.
<v Speaker 1>He was an abductee, and I'd never really before that
<v Speaker 1>really talked to somebody who had been in abduction situations.
<v Speaker 1>And he was a professional, a professional man. He was
<v Speaker 1>an investment banker, he was you know, a successful person.
<v Speaker 1>But ever since he was younger, he had been dealing
<v Speaker 1>with his abductions. And you know, i'd certainly heard about this,
<v Speaker 1>and I believe that it's you know, that it was
<v Speaker 1>something that was going on out there, but I always
<v Speaker 1>wanted to believe that it was probably. I wanted to
<v Speaker 1>believe that it was very benevolence, probably, even though it
<v Speaker 1>may not feel that way to some abduction experiences. But
<v Speaker 1>when I talked to this guy and I heard the
<v Speaker 1>pain in his voice, and I and I I consoled
<v Speaker 1>him when he broke down in tears, and I had
<v Speaker 1>to pause recording, and you know, we just had to
<v Speaker 1>just let him get to a place where he could
<v Speaker 1>keep talking. I realized the personal agony that this had
<v Speaker 1>brought into his life, the absolute powerlessness that he was
<v Speaker 1>dealing with, and the pain and the and the frustration
<v Speaker 1>of it, and how it changed his life, and the
<v Speaker 1>reason that mean he had towards it that I was like, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>maybe this isn't so wonderful and a and a good thing,
<v Speaker 1>and maybe it is kind of horrible for those people
<v Speaker 1>that go through those kind of experiences and it and
<v Speaker 1>it really brought a whole new understanding to the phenomena.
<v Speaker 1>To me, it was it was it was agonizing for
<v Speaker 1>him and and my I have a lot of empathy anyway,
<v Speaker 1>but I mean I could feel it through his words
<v Speaker 1>and through his through his tone, and and it really
<v Speaker 1>opened my eyes to wait, you know, this is another
<v Speaker 1>one of those situations where you think you kind of
<v Speaker 1>understand what's going on, and then you talk to somebody
<v Speaker 1>and you and you you feel that coming through in
<v Speaker 1>the interview and you go, oh, my god, that poor soul,
<v Speaker 1>what a horrible hell he's lived through. So and and
<v Speaker 1>and the same is kind of, you know, not necessarily
<v Speaker 1>the same powerful effect on me. But I of course
<v Speaker 1>have loved every experiencer that I've talked to because it's
<v Speaker 1>it's an opportunity to look in through their eyes in
<v Speaker 1>their experience and understand maybe something more than I did before.
<v Speaker 1>But I always I always applaud the courage of people
<v Speaker 1>being willing to come forward and share that because you know,
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we might have covered this and I've certainly
<v Speaker 1>covered it on my shows enough in the past, but
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to say it again, but that when when
<v Speaker 1>someone is brave enough to come forward and share what
<v Speaker 1>they've been through, whether it's a positive thing or a
<v Speaker 1>negative thing, or just a benign thing just like, hey,
<v Speaker 1>that was weird, it is an active of trust and
<v Speaker 1>an act of bravery on their part. And the really
<v Speaker 1>powerful part of that is not so much that, hey,
<v Speaker 1>this person is, you know, telling me something I've not
<v Speaker 1>heard before, and that's very interesting and compelling and fascinating,
<v Speaker 1>but it's also the snowball effect that has because I
<v Speaker 1>oftentimes get emails from people listening it's like, Wow, when
<v Speaker 1>you interviewed so and so, it was so amazing. It
<v Speaker 1>was very similar to what I've been through, and it
<v Speaker 1>was so wonderful to know that I wasn't alone, that
<v Speaker 1>there was someone else that understood my experience, and it
<v Speaker 1>was very healing for me to listen to that. And
<v Speaker 1>then the people that here that are like, I've been
<v Speaker 1>through something like this too, and I want to tell
<v Speaker 1>my story. And so one of the things that really
<v Speaker 1>breaks my heart about, you know, the idea of so
<v Speaker 1>many experiences being out there, but how many have never
<v Speaker 1>been told and never will be told, And we'll lose
<v Speaker 1>that experience, will lose that understanding of or maybe the
<v Speaker 1>idea to at least view what they'd seen. And I
<v Speaker 1>can't think of much more of a tragic thing than
<v Speaker 1>something being lost to time like that. You know that,
<v Speaker 1>I think everybody has something to offer, and everything has
<v Speaker 1>something to put on the table, and even if it
<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem like a Hollywood level experience, it's incredibly profound.
<v Speaker 1>Even if it's more of a mundane thing like, hey,
<v Speaker 1>my drape's movement and nobody's anywhere near it and there's
<v Speaker 1>no vent or anything there. Why did they just move?
<v Speaker 1>Why did they open on their own? You know, things
<v Speaker 1>like that. It may be a seemingly smaller event, but
<v Speaker 1>that's profound, that's incredible. And so I think that I
<v Speaker 1>love the fact that when people do come forward, they
<v Speaker 1>encourage and they give courage to other people to come forward,
<v Speaker 1>and it really does snowball and it creates this really
<v Speaker 1>cool self perpetuating thing.
<v Speaker 2>Couldn't agree more. Man, Wow, that just really got me
<v Speaker 2>thinking about my own journey into all of this, which
<v Speaker 2>was like so many years ago, it seems like it's
<v Speaker 2>just gone by in a flash, man. But I remember
<v Speaker 2>that first sighting that I had, like you know, processing
<v Speaker 2>at the rest of the weekend, and like I had
<v Speaker 2>a friend that was there with me, and he wasn't
<v Speaker 2>there when it happened. And this was like I was
<v Speaker 2>friends with everybody that was there, but this was one
<v Speaker 2>of my best friends from before Bigfoot, Roddy as a
<v Speaker 2>matter of fact, who ended up having his own sighting
<v Speaker 2>down in Texas that changed his life forever, but at
<v Speaker 2>this point in time, he wasn't there next to me
<v Speaker 2>when it happened, and so like he was just like, oh,
<v Speaker 2>you saw something. I was like yeah, And like I
<v Speaker 2>didn't even know how to process it. I didn't know
<v Speaker 2>what to say. I you know, I just went into
<v Speaker 2>this shell shock thing mentally. And then I come home
<v Speaker 2>and I'm talking to my great grandmother. She was like
<v Speaker 2>the woman that raised me. And I remember sitting down
<v Speaker 2>at the end of her bed with her and I
<v Speaker 2>and I told her what had happened, and I started crying.
<v Speaker 2>And I'm in my twenties at this point, like I'm
<v Speaker 2>not like some little kid or anything, right, And she
<v Speaker 2>was just like, well, Sugar, you really saw one. I
<v Speaker 2>was like, yeah, yeah, I really saw one. And so
<v Speaker 2>at that point she was on board with it. She
<v Speaker 2>was okay with it. But after that, you know, I'm
<v Speaker 2>telling like the people that are closest to me, you know,
<v Speaker 2>my best friends and everything and other family members. You know,
<v Speaker 2>I'm telling them the story every once in a while.
<v Speaker 2>They would have heard it already from someone that I had.
<v Speaker 2>You know, Matt thinks he saw a bigfoot or whatever,
<v Speaker 2>so they had asked me about it, and I had
<v Speaker 2>tell him the story and I could just you know,
<v Speaker 2>the look on their faces. You know, they don't get it.
<v Speaker 2>They don't believe it. Even my own best friend was
<v Speaker 2>just like, man, I think you think you saw something,
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, you're my best friend, I'm telling you
<v Speaker 2>that this happened. These things are real, you know, because
<v Speaker 2>like that was my whole thing. I'm wanting to shout
<v Speaker 2>out to the world, these things are real, you know. Yea,
<v Speaker 2>like so many other people before me had tried to do.
<v Speaker 2>But it was because of that that I really wanted,
<v Speaker 2>you know, to do something to let people have that
<v Speaker 2>voice and I know that it's not a novel idea,
<v Speaker 2>and there's hundreds of other people out there with podcasts
<v Speaker 2>doing the exact same thing and saying the exact same
<v Speaker 2>thing that I am. But it's so important to give
<v Speaker 2>people that platform so they can have a voice. And
<v Speaker 2>I've heard so many amazing stories, man, And I've heard
<v Speaker 2>a lot of just things that I believe weable, but chit.
<v Speaker 2>I've also heard a lot of stories from people where
<v Speaker 2>I've spent time talking to them off air and I
<v Speaker 2>know their story and it's like, this person's not lying,
<v Speaker 2>this person's not making this up. I had one guy
<v Speaker 2>come on my show that he was on a TV show.
<v Speaker 2>He had an incident whenever he was younger with his brothers.
<v Speaker 2>They were left home alone at the time. They had
<v Speaker 2>this crazy encounter with a bigfoot and he was still
<v Speaker 2>traumatized from it. But he just told me straight toy
<v Speaker 2>is like, my parents were abusive. They had abandon us
<v Speaker 2>for like several days when this happened, and I believe
<v Speaker 2>that that had a lot to do with his encounter, right,
<v Speaker 2>But like, you don't make up a bigfoot story and
<v Speaker 2>go on the air and share that sort of personal
<v Speaker 2>information to the world. You know what I mean, right, right?
<v Speaker 2>For sure, Like you're saying when there's somebody breaks done
<v Speaker 2>in tears, like you can't fake that kind of emotion.
<v Speaker 1>No, exactly, Yeah, unless they are like a Hollywood level actor.
<v Speaker 1>And right, as far as I know people, I none
<v Speaker 1>the people I've interviewed or have been that profoundly talented
<v Speaker 1>at acting. But you know, the other part of it
<v Speaker 1>is too, is that and this is kind of my
<v Speaker 1>my soapbox I've been on lately, and hopefully it encourages
<v Speaker 1>people to come forward. But you know, I mean, again
<v Speaker 1>getting back to what we're saying before, I mean, we
<v Speaker 1>just don't know anything, really. But the one thing that
<v Speaker 1>we do have, and the one consistent resource that we
<v Speaker 1>have available to us, is witness testimony. Like we can
<v Speaker 1>we can hear these experiences from the eyes of these
<v Speaker 1>witnesses and from the mouths that they speak their experience.
<v Speaker 1>And I think maybe people say, well, people aren't very y,
<v Speaker 1>aren't very reliable witnesses, people, people aren't good witnesses. Well
<v Speaker 1>maybe some people aren't good witnesses, but all of them,
<v Speaker 1>you know, all of them aren't good witnesses. None of
<v Speaker 1>them could be, you know, objective with what they saw
<v Speaker 1>on and are compelling it or you know, telling us
<v Speaker 1>about it. But the other side of it is and
<v Speaker 1>and this is this is my new parallel. It's you know,
<v Speaker 1>with with a body of reports, we can start to
<v Speaker 1>get at least a rudimentary profile about these these beings,
<v Speaker 1>you know, about what are they doing, what seems to
<v Speaker 1>be bringing them in, you know, through this great body
<v Speaker 1>of evidence, you know, verbal anecdotal evidence, we can at
<v Speaker 1>least glean behavior, and we can compare that and come
<v Speaker 1>up with some kind of behavioral model. And we can
<v Speaker 1>also look at what were the people doing. Maybe something
<v Speaker 1>is consistent in all these reports that caused them to
<v Speaker 1>have activity. They may have they may have just stumbled
<v Speaker 1>on it. They probably didn't know that at the time,
<v Speaker 1>but it definitely compares with other reports where people were
<v Speaker 1>doing something similar and that does seem to be an activity. So,
<v Speaker 1>I mean, all of this stuff can teach us at
<v Speaker 1>least something about these mysterious beings in the forests, and
<v Speaker 1>it also can be used as a metric to measure
<v Speaker 1>future reports from because if it, like I've talked to
<v Speaker 1>some people that'll come from from far out out in
<v Speaker 1>outer space with their ideas and it's something I've never
<v Speaker 1>heard before. I can't compare it to anything else because
<v Speaker 1>it doesn't sound at all similar, you know, And then
<v Speaker 1>you know, at least it gives you a metric like,
<v Speaker 1>you know, this is I've never heard this before. I've
<v Speaker 1>interviewed hundreds or thousands in your case, of people that
<v Speaker 1>have had experiences and nothing sounds anything like this. I
<v Speaker 1>don't necessarily trust what this person's saying, you know, so
<v Speaker 1>it can it can give us a barometer of reliability
<v Speaker 1>of that witness. But you know, with the FBI, they
<v Speaker 1>have profilers, and it's their technique of you know, looking
<v Speaker 1>at psychology, looking at you know, established patterns and stuff
<v Speaker 1>of anybody of reports that they have and coming up
<v Speaker 1>with a profile to try to get ahead of a
<v Speaker 1>serial killer, you know, because they don't have much of anything.
<v Speaker 1>But if they can get a really talented profiler that
<v Speaker 1>can look at what's going on and then compare it
<v Speaker 1>to a whole bunch of other factors from you know,
<v Speaker 1>thousands of other cases, and a lot of times those
<v Speaker 1>profilers are real dead on and giving you an idea
<v Speaker 1>who they are. Well, that's what witnesses reports can do
<v Speaker 1>for us in terms of bigfoot, maybe in terms of
<v Speaker 1>hauntings and all these other things. It's like to give
<v Speaker 1>us an idea of what we're dealing with, come up with,
<v Speaker 1>you know, at least a rudimentary behavior model, and maybe
<v Speaker 1>even to help to steer research efforts, because you know,
<v Speaker 1>research efforts by and large haven't evolved that much. You know,
<v Speaker 1>it's still a lot of people going out there with
<v Speaker 1>the finding foot howls and uh or and then you know,
<v Speaker 1>the tree knocks and in whoops and trying to draw
<v Speaker 1>them in. Well, obviously most people don't have a lot
<v Speaker 1>of success with that. You know, perhaps you get something back,
<v Speaker 1>but it's you know, it's usually very far away. But
<v Speaker 1>better yet to look at what people were doing, what
<v Speaker 1>was going on, where were they what was the situation
<v Speaker 1>that they were encountering these these these beings, you know
<v Speaker 1>what I mean. I hope I'm making sense.
<v Speaker 2>No, yeah, yeah, absolutely, And a lot of those techniques
<v Speaker 2>that they do use. I mean, hunters have been using
<v Speaker 2>techniques like that since the beginning of time. The difference
<v Speaker 2>is that hunters know what animals that they're impersonating. Uh
<v Speaker 2>And I think that a lot of people that try
<v Speaker 2>to use these tactics of vocalizations or wood knocking or
<v Speaker 2>whatever have no clue what they're doing or how to
<v Speaker 2>go about it. So you might get results, you might not.
<v Speaker 2>There's no guarantee that the results you are getting or
<v Speaker 2>what you think it is, So just keep that in
<v Speaker 2>mind wherever you're using those tactics out in the woods.
<v Speaker 2>But I mean it makes an adventurous outing, you know,
<v Speaker 2>it's fun, So there is that, sure.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I just think that you know, for most of
<v Speaker 1>the and this isn't just bigfoot, this seems to be
<v Speaker 1>pretty much any of this, this unknown supernatural paranormal forty
<v Speaker 1>an umbrella is that most of the time, if not
<v Speaker 1>all of the time, these things find us. You know,
<v Speaker 1>it's not like we're going out and stumbling on the
<v Speaker 1>ghosts or the ghosts, you know, we surprised them in
<v Speaker 1>a closet somewhere in an old mansion. It's like they
<v Speaker 1>choose to interact with us. And so I think the
<v Speaker 1>key with all of that is to just make yourself
<v Speaker 1>as freaking interesting as you can. You know, when I'm
<v Speaker 1>doing paranormal investigating, my co investigator that I usually work with,
<v Speaker 1>his name is Charles Howard Johnson, wonderful guy. But he
<v Speaker 1>and I would go all to these haunted hotels and
<v Speaker 1>haunted bars and you know, the many places we've investigated together,
<v Speaker 1>and we'll do the standard stuff like you see on
<v Speaker 1>the ghost shows too. We'll try that, you know, is
<v Speaker 1>there anyone here the wants to talk to us? You know,
<v Speaker 1>are you know, do you know you're dead? Are you stuck?
<v Speaker 1>Do you need help? You know that kind of stuff,
<v Speaker 1>and just flatline. So we'll turn on all the equipment
<v Speaker 1>and then he and I just start having a discussion
<v Speaker 1>sometimes about spiritual stuff, whatever, religious stuff or whatever, and
<v Speaker 1>then suddenly we'll start to get triggers on the equipment.
<v Speaker 1>Like when you think about, you know, any of these phenomena,
<v Speaker 1>I suppose even Bigfoot, it's like, oh yeah, there's notother
<v Speaker 1>bunch of clowns over there and doing, you know, hitting
<v Speaker 1>their sticks on trees. Let's just ignore them, you know.
<v Speaker 1>But if you if you make yourself interesting, like we're
<v Speaker 1>talking about these other things, and then it's like someone
<v Speaker 1>is there and they want to join in the discussion,
<v Speaker 1>like oh yeah, I got an opinion on this, and
<v Speaker 1>then the flashlight goes off to oh well, maybe we've
<v Speaker 1>got to and then we start addressing questions regarding that
<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff to the unseen's presence, and boom, we're
<v Speaker 1>getting these hits like crazy. It's like you have to
<v Speaker 1>make yourself interesting enough for them to interact. And I
<v Speaker 1>think the same is true with bigfoot. It's like they've
<v Speaker 1>probably been played out for a lot of the traditional
<v Speaker 1>stuff for the most part. Maybe not, maybe I'm absolutely wrong,
<v Speaker 1>but just my you know, I don't go bigfoot investigating
<v Speaker 1>or researching, so I'm not probably the best person to
<v Speaker 1>levy any real opinion on that, but it certainly seems
<v Speaker 1>that ninety nine percent of all reports come from people
<v Speaker 1>that were absolutely unprepared for that experience anyway, you know, like, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>they weren't actively looking, they just they were found.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, I'll give away some trade secrets that
<v Speaker 2>we used back in my day. One of the things
<v Speaker 2>that we knew going into an area is that we
<v Speaker 2>could use vocalizations, and there was a chance that if
<v Speaker 2>there was any earshot, those vocalizations would work. But once
<v Speaker 2>they got to us and saw that we were people,
<v Speaker 2>that was it. So if you want to hear something,
<v Speaker 2>respond back to the vocalizations, sure, But once they get
<v Speaker 2>close enough to realize, oh, those are humans parties over. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>they're going to go into quiet mode and you're not
<v Speaker 2>going to get anything. Another key aspect is we've talked
<v Speaker 2>about this over and over and over and over again
<v Speaker 2>and again over the years. They liked people watch, So
<v Speaker 2>go out there and give them something to watch. And
<v Speaker 2>then if you do get something going on, ignore it.
<v Speaker 2>Act like you don't know what's happening, don't look at it,
<v Speaker 2>don't stop, and everybody point, don't point your recorder at it,
<v Speaker 2>your camera whatever. I know that's the point, but you know,
<v Speaker 2>that's how you can start, in my opinion, getting some
<v Speaker 2>activity going. But then there's other people that just communicate
<v Speaker 2>with them psychically and can skip all those steps. So
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.
<v Speaker 1>I'm not one of those people apparently either me either.
<v Speaker 1>I mean I have been out, but I've never even
<v Speaker 1>had an encounter. When I've been out looking. I've seen
<v Speaker 1>some things that I'm pretty sure that they're responsible. But again,
<v Speaker 1>getting back to what you said, I didn't see him
<v Speaker 1>do it, so I can't be positive, right, But yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I'm not opposed to going out looking. I just i've
<v Speaker 1>just as of age to realize that's probably a younger
<v Speaker 1>person's sport than me.
<v Speaker 2>Well as a ghost hunter. Let me ask you this question,
<v Speaker 2>when did we decide that ghosts were the spirits of
<v Speaker 2>the dead.
<v Speaker 1>You know, that's a great question, and I certainly can't
<v Speaker 1>speak to the win I just think, again, it's going
<v Speaker 1>through people's lenses. That's what they want to believe. But
<v Speaker 1>I'm firmly of the opinion not only not only could
<v Speaker 1>it be something else like not necessarily even a formally
<v Speaker 1>living human. I think that we share space. Like if
<v Speaker 1>suddenly everybody was able to see spirits perfectly, I think
<v Speaker 1>most people would be collectively shitting themselves, you know. I
<v Speaker 1>think because I think we're swimming in a world of spirit.
<v Speaker 1>I think we are, and not to suggest that everything
<v Speaker 1>else is aware of us. They're just in their own
<v Speaker 1>vibrational spectrum as well, and maybe they are sometimes aware
<v Speaker 1>of us, maybe they're not. But I think there are
<v Speaker 1>some things that were never people that are around us.
<v Speaker 1>And it might go back to some of the legendary
<v Speaker 1>ideas like silks, driads, gnomes, nature, spirits, elementals, you know,
<v Speaker 1>and angels, demons, shadow people, and the list goes on
<v Speaker 1>and on, and then there's the whole idea of like
<v Speaker 1>Tulpa's people creating their own hauntings, you know, and by
<v Speaker 1>some kind of emanation from themselves, they give eyes to
<v Speaker 1>this phenomena from of their own making, and it might
<v Speaker 1>be generated by their own fear or their own whatever
<v Speaker 1>emotional states in a place that you know that because
<v Speaker 1>we're we're kind of conditioned to believe that all of
<v Speaker 1>our emotions, all of our thoughts, all of us, all
<v Speaker 1>of us is contained in these meat suits. But I
<v Speaker 1>I'm firmly of the belief that when you're sad, you're
<v Speaker 1>you're making waves of sadness. When you're afraid, you're making
<v Speaker 1>waves of fear around you. And likewise, for joy and
<v Speaker 1>laughter and every every other emotion, it's you know, I
<v Speaker 1>think we are broadcast antennas, and maybe we're even receiving
<v Speaker 1>stuff sometimes, but we're not really tuned into that. But
<v Speaker 1>the other idea is an idea that I learned this
<v Speaker 1>from Amy Bruney of Kindred Spirits and former formerly of
<v Speaker 1>Ghost Hunters, and she said she brought up this term
<v Speaker 1>on my interview with her, and she said the word
<v Speaker 1>egg regard. I'm like, oh, what's that.
<v Speaker 2>Now?
<v Speaker 1>I had a concept for this but I didn't know
<v Speaker 1>there was a term I had. I had a hypothesis,
<v Speaker 1>you know, not to pat myself on my own back.
<v Speaker 1>But like I said, and I'm thinking of this stuff constantly. Yeah,
<v Speaker 1>I'll let you take some. Well, thank you, brother, I
<v Speaker 1>appreciate that. But an aggregor is that is either a
<v Speaker 1>consciously manifest a manifested presence made meaning by virtue of
<v Speaker 1>ritual or you know, some other method of consciously trying
<v Speaker 1>to create a presence, or it could be unconsciously. And
<v Speaker 1>that is through through places like hospitals and and prisons
<v Speaker 1>and stuff like that, where there's these all these emotional
<v Speaker 1>charges that are constantly filling up the space. You know,
<v Speaker 1>you think of a hospital. People are in pain, agony,
<v Speaker 1>happy because the new arrivals, they're sad because of people
<v Speaker 1>being deceased, or they're just in any number of these
<v Speaker 1>bundles of emotions that are radiating your space. And the
<v Speaker 1>idea is that with an aggregor is that that energy
<v Speaker 1>can coalesce into a consciousness of its own. And and
<v Speaker 1>so you know, I believe that people are real manifestors
<v Speaker 1>of their experience, not only not only in the Hey,
<v Speaker 1>it's going to be a nice day. And hey, it
<v Speaker 1>worked out to be a nice day. But in profoundly
<v Speaker 1>manifesting our experience, like we are creating our experience in
<v Speaker 1>this world to a strong degree, I believe that. You know,
<v Speaker 1>I know that sounds real, esoteric and weird but for
<v Speaker 1>many listeners, but I think that's true. I think we do.
<v Speaker 1>I think that's that's just something we're capable of. And
<v Speaker 1>so these aggregors were never people obviously, and they became
<v Speaker 1>they became a presence on their own. Now, there was
<v Speaker 1>a there was a research team I think it was
<v Speaker 1>in Canada as paranormal group, and it was by all
<v Speaker 1>these professionals. It was a very professional paranormal group, and
<v Speaker 1>I mean like professionals from different fields and stuff that
<v Speaker 1>were part of this. And they decided to do an
<v Speaker 1>experiment and I might have been tied to a university
<v Speaker 1>as well, I don't recall for sure. But this group
<v Speaker 1>got together and they meditated and focused and they created
<v Speaker 1>narrative for a spirit and I think they named it Charlie.
<v Speaker 1>And they created this whole backstory of Charlie and all
<v Speaker 1>that he'd been through. And they created this whole narrative
<v Speaker 1>as a group, and then they would meditate and focus
<v Speaker 1>on it and focus on it, and they would research
<v Speaker 1>over time and try to see if they could find Charlie,
<v Speaker 1>and eventually they did, and they started they started to
<v Speaker 1>get responses from Charlie, and Charlie would indicate the story
<v Speaker 1>they had created, like they had created this presence, and
<v Speaker 1>it was very thoroughly tested and apparently seemed to be
<v Speaker 1>very legit that they had indeed created this Charlie, which
<v Speaker 1>would have been an aggrigor because that was their intent.
<v Speaker 1>And I think a lot of the things like that
<v Speaker 1>happen in some occult practices, like they want to create
<v Speaker 1>guardian spirits or whatever. Well that's a form of aggrigor
<v Speaker 1>as well. So but yeah, when did they become all
<v Speaker 1>formally human spirits, I don't know, but I don't believe
<v Speaker 1>they are. There are some I think that there's merit
<v Speaker 1>for that, that maybe there's some earth bomb spirits and stuff.
<v Speaker 1>We only have a few terms though. It's like ghosts
<v Speaker 1>and everybody here's ghosts and they go, oh, people that
<v Speaker 1>used to live and now they're not, you know, in
<v Speaker 1>a meat suit anymore, but they're stuck here. And I
<v Speaker 1>think that that may very well be the case. But
<v Speaker 1>I think that there's a lot more that we experience
<v Speaker 1>as ghostly presences, but we're never people.
<v Speaker 2>I think what you're talking about could potentially offer some
<v Speaker 2>sort of answer ticket for whatever you will about why
<v Speaker 2>some bigfoot sightings or bigfoot encounters are of a paranormal
<v Speaker 2>nature or how they come to be. I don't think
<v Speaker 2>everything is so cut and dry. I don't think there's
<v Speaker 2>you know, strong division lines in place. I think it's
<v Speaker 2>kind of all muddled together. And I don't think that
<v Speaker 2>all big foot encounters are people dealing with the same thing.
<v Speaker 2>I don't think just because you hear something walking around
<v Speaker 2>the woods at night that it's a bigfoot. But sometimes
<v Speaker 2>that doesn't mean it's a normal part of wildlife or
<v Speaker 2>nature either. It's just something out there that you don't
<v Speaker 2>know about that's not a bigfoot. And if your intent
<v Speaker 2>is strong enough and you're putting all this emotion into
<v Speaker 2>it and all this belief, potentially energies and things going
<v Speaker 2>on could manifest themselves into what you're wanting to encounter.
<v Speaker 2>So I could definitely see that with bigfoot. Which it's
<v Speaker 2>also interesting that you bring that up because I wanted
<v Speaker 2>to ask you about the rake we hear rake sightings
<v Speaker 2>every now and then, you know, people come to me
<v Speaker 2>with a story describing essentially a rake, and a rake
<v Speaker 2>is a completely fictional thing that was made up on
<v Speaker 2>the internet, like the history of it can be traced
<v Speaker 2>specifically to a website. But people are having these encounters
<v Speaker 2>with something out there that you know, matches its description. Now,
<v Speaker 2>did these people on this website just happened to come
<v Speaker 2>up with a creature that matches the description of something
<v Speaker 2>that people were already encountering or did it manifest from
<v Speaker 2>people believing that it existed? Or what's going on with it?
<v Speaker 1>What?
<v Speaker 2>What do you think is behind the rake?
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think there's certainly an argument for these created
<v Speaker 1>presence being some of it. I often, I've often pondered,
<v Speaker 1>and this is kind of kind of a long form
<v Speaker 1>answer here, but I've often thought about the rake as
<v Speaker 1>possibly just a new a new buzzword to define something
<v Speaker 1>that's been around for a long time. And I'm I'm
<v Speaker 1>referencing goules, the description of gules traditional rules. It seems
<v Speaker 1>very similar to me in a lot of cases to
<v Speaker 1>what people are seeing as these rakes. You know, it's
<v Speaker 1>like a new name for this for an old uh
<v Speaker 1>an old, an old phenomena. The the ghules were oftentimes
<v Speaker 1>seen around graveyards in you know, traditional lore and uh,
<v Speaker 1>you know folklore and such, and they were they were
<v Speaker 1>said to feast upon the bodies of the deceased, like
<v Speaker 1>they would dig up graves or tunnel into graves and
<v Speaker 1>and feast on the corpses underground. And you know, then
<v Speaker 1>you never heard much about any ghule sightings for a
<v Speaker 1>hell of a long time until these rakes popped up.
<v Speaker 1>But I wondered, what if this is a gul, why
<v Speaker 1>aren't they still at the graveyards. Well, one thing started
<v Speaker 1>around that, around the time of the Civil War that
<v Speaker 1>had never been done before, and that was embalming on
<v Speaker 1>a mass scale. So you know, corpses were pumped full
<v Speaker 1>of maldehyde. Yeah, and so maybe these ghouls couldn't you know,
<v Speaker 1>enjoy their usual their usual diet of decomposing bodies anymore,
<v Speaker 1>because they were now maybe poisoned to them. So maybe
<v Speaker 1>they hit the wilds and and maybe died off quite
<v Speaker 1>a bit and are now rebounding as more of a
<v Speaker 1>more of a I don't know, more of a traditional
<v Speaker 1>predator in the wilds of America. I don't know or
<v Speaker 1>the world, but I've wondered if that couldn't be part
<v Speaker 1>of it too, like that these are this is just
<v Speaker 1>a new name for a very old phenomena which we're
<v Speaker 1>referred as ghouls.
<v Speaker 2>Well, I know someone who I'm close friends with who
<v Speaker 2>had some childhood friend and this person saw what they
<v Speaker 2>described as a reich. She is one thousand percent convinced
<v Speaker 2>that they saw what they said they saw. She told
<v Speaker 2>me the story, and I was like, Okay, you know
<v Speaker 2>those those don't exist, those aren't real, Yeah, because it's
<v Speaker 2>just you know, going through that evolution of belief that
<v Speaker 2>we all go through in this area. But then I
<v Speaker 2>had a guest on that told me that they encountered
<v Speaker 2>a skin walker in their backyard and they live in
<v Speaker 2>the Four Corners area, and the story that they told
<v Speaker 2>me was, you know, again very convincing. I believe the guy,
<v Speaker 2>but I think he was just calling it a skinwalker
<v Speaker 2>because that's what he was told that it must have been,
<v Speaker 2>and where he lives and everything. But his description was
<v Speaker 2>again a rake type creature. And then recently a good
<v Speaker 2>friend of mine, Brandon, who is the host of Tinfoil
<v Speaker 2>Tels podcast, he was talking to someone who had a
<v Speaker 2>sighting of a creature that you know, sounds like a
<v Speaker 2>rake to me. We've heard stories of alien sightings throughout
<v Speaker 2>the years that could also, you know, fit the description
<v Speaker 2>of a rake. And then one day it kind of
<v Speaker 2>dawned on me. One of my favorite cryptids of lore
<v Speaker 2>is the Dover Demon, and the Dover Demon just sounds
<v Speaker 2>like a rake, except smaller and with a bigger head.
<v Speaker 2>So maybe it's a baby rake. I don't know, but
<v Speaker 2>you know, you're right, we have had sightings of these creatures,
<v Speaker 2>whatever they are. Uh, there is a history there, and
<v Speaker 2>making the connection to the ghoul is very interesting and
<v Speaker 2>something that I hadn't.
<v Speaker 1>Thought about before. Oh thanks man, Yeah, yeah, that's that's
<v Speaker 1>my own, my own. I can't I didn't read that somewhere.
<v Speaker 1>That was my own, my own idea. So I got
<v Speaker 1>to pat myself again.
<v Speaker 2>Matt Geez should write a book.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know what I do. That's why I got
<v Speaker 1>a podcast. Yeah, that's why I'm here. I love. That's
<v Speaker 1>why I love talking with you though, is that. You know,
<v Speaker 1>we we just have such a great exchange of ideas
<v Speaker 1>and stuff. So but I appreciate that.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, man, Well, Halloween's coming up, if anybody wants to,
<v Speaker 2>you know, take the opportunity to commune with the other
<v Speaker 2>side or maybe have a sign of something. You know,
<v Speaker 2>that's whenever it's supposed to be able to be the easiest.
<v Speaker 1>The veil is the thinnest, they say, although there's some
<v Speaker 1>there's some esoteric beliefs that say it goes all the
<v Speaker 1>way up to the Yule season where the veil is
<v Speaker 1>thinning all the way up until then. But I you know,
<v Speaker 1>I guess I'm a traditionalist. I figure it's more of
<v Speaker 1>the Halloween time. But you know, to each his own.
<v Speaker 2>Did you always picture the veil as like, you know,
<v Speaker 2>a veil, like a thin veil between here and there,
<v Speaker 2>and they're just all lined up on the other side,
<v Speaker 2>and we're on this side, like a like a one
<v Speaker 2>way mirror or something.
<v Speaker 1>Right like they're just peering into a word, going get
<v Speaker 1>back over there.
<v Speaker 2>I'm starting to think it was just kind of draped
<v Speaker 2>over us. Though.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think the veil is just another term for
<v Speaker 1>our awareness. I don't think that. I mean, there's got
<v Speaker 1>to be I think there's certainly vibrational or frequency variations
<v Speaker 1>between our existence now and whatever is next. I think
<v Speaker 1>that that that that could be what the veil is.
<v Speaker 1>But I think the veil is probably most most traditionally
<v Speaker 1>representing our ability to you know, perceive things, you know,
<v Speaker 1>like the veil over our pineal gland or something or
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, who knows. I guess I'm just spitballing
<v Speaker 1>that as we're sitting here talking. But but yeah, the veil,
<v Speaker 1>it's just a barrier of some sort.
<v Speaker 2>So what's coming up for the Paranormal Portal? Well, you are, yes,
<v Speaker 2>I am, You're coming up nothing, you know. That's the thing.
<v Speaker 2>I really want to get out there and investigate.
<v Speaker 1>But I haven't been able to put anything together now
<v Speaker 1>for several months, some of it due to me being
<v Speaker 1>at conferences and stuff. Now the conference season is pretty
<v Speaker 1>much wrapped up. That should hopefully open up up some
<v Speaker 1>windows into getting out in the field a little more.
<v Speaker 1>I've always wanted to do a lot more of that.
<v Speaker 1>I love being a studio show and all of that,
<v Speaker 1>but I really love getting out there and doing stuff
<v Speaker 1>as well. I think that and those are both integral
<v Speaker 1>parts of my vision into you know, what the Paranormal
<v Speaker 1>Portal will become. But as far as the shows are concerned,
<v Speaker 1>you know, just hopefully a lot of people will come
<v Speaker 1>forward and want to be on the shows and tell
<v Speaker 1>their stories. You know, I've been very blessed in that way.
<v Speaker 1>That's usually get people reaching out, but sometimes not as much.
<v Speaker 1>So I'm always looking for new people that want to
<v Speaker 1>come share their stories. If you don't mind me pimping
<v Speaker 1>my show on your.
<v Speaker 2>Show, go right ahead, Go right ahead.
<v Speaker 1>You've got a great audience too, Yeah, I mean, it's
<v Speaker 1>it's really easy to do. Just reach out to me
<v Speaker 1>either at Paranormal Portal Radio at gmail dot com or
<v Speaker 1>head over to Paranormal Portal dot net, which is my
<v Speaker 1>homepage and that's links to everything that the Paranormal Portal
<v Speaker 1>currently is, so hopefully you guys will check it out.
<v Speaker 2>Brent, it's been a pleasure as always, thanks again for
<v Speaker 2>joining me, and as always I have thoroughly enjoyed it, sir.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, me too. Man. It's always a blast to talk
<v Speaker 1>to you, Matt, and thanks for having me on. I'm
<v Speaker 1>glad to be here, and you ever got an opening,
<v Speaker 1>you just let me know, brother, I'm here.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I appreciate it. And if you're one of those
<v Speaker 2>people that has experienced bigfoot or something else, you can
<v Speaker 2>explain it and you'd like to share your story, you
<v Speaker 2>can email me at Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com.
<v Speaker 2>Check out the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com. You can find
<v Speaker 2>links to social media, past episodes, merchandise, everything you need
<v Speaker 2>all in one place, and until next time, remember there's
<v Speaker 2>something in the woods.