#327 - Gun Fight: Why Beretta and Ruger Are Suddenly at Odds

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If Beretta manages some sort of hostile
takeover of Ruger,

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they will lose the American market.

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Share.

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Aaron,

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welcome to this episode of the Guns
Podcast, U.S..

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Thanks for joining us here on one of
the world's biggest gun talk programs.

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As we chat about the interesting stuff
that makes up the world of shooting.

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Well, we've got a fight
brewing today in the gun industry,

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and we're going to air all that dirty
laundry here in just a minute.

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Well, I'd like to welcome my co-host,
Roy Huntington.

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How you doing there, Roy?

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I'm fine, but my ear is up.

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Well, we got a.

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You know, when we were cops, we'd
call this a domestic disturbance.

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We got a fight brewing in the, gun
industry, and it's it's pretty unusual.

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And I think if you haven't heard about it,
you're going to.

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Because this is it's going to get ugly,
and it may significantly change

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the entire US shooting industry.

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So we're talking about Beretta versus
Ruger

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and it, it, it it is quite a mess.

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I'll give you the quick rundown
and then we'll,

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we'll get into kind of discussing
what's going on at Beretta,

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which is one of the world's oldest
continuously operating companies.

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Not just arms company, just companies.

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It's been around 500 some years.

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Of course, they make, legendary, firearms,
both civilian military.

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They are trying
they're engaged in a proxy war with Ruger,

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a American company
started by Bill Ruger senior.

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And if you're not familiar
with corporate raider

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lingo, which, frankly, I'm not that much.

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But basically what they've done is
they are now the single largest

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shareholder of shares in Ruger Riggers,

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a publicly traded company
on the New York Stock Exchange.

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Anybody can buy their shares.

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Well,
Beretta quietly assembled the majority.

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And it's it's.

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I forget it's

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somewhere in the 20 percentile,
but that's the single largest shareholder.

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And what happens then

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is they get with each share,
you get a piece of a voting, right.

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Well, now they're the biggest shareholder.

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So they have the biggest, ability to vote
in the annual shareholders meeting.

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So what happens in a proxy war
is the company

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or a group of people
that that amass a number of shares.

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What they do is
then they elect their people.

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To the Board of Works or I'm sorry, the,
the the, board of the company.

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Yeah. Board of directors
could think of the word

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and then they

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institute the, policies and procedures
that they want.

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So in essence,
they can take over the company.

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And then once they're in charge,
they essentially sell it to the company

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that kind of ran this.

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So that's what's going on.

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Beretta is trying to buy Ruger.

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Ruger should need no introduction to us
shooters.

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They've been a legendary company
in the U.S firearms industry.

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They're probably,
I don't think it's even arguable.

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They have been
the most fiscally responsible of us. Gun.

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Major U.S.

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gun companies, of late,
they've they've kept a balance

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in their checkbook,
like 80 to $100 million each quarter.

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So they've got money, they've got good
product, they've got a solid reputation.

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And Beretta wants some of that.

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And what's unusual is normally
these things get handled over.

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Over a meeting, a lunch.

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The attorneys get together
some paperwork and signed,

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and it happens
witness sees bought Colt recently.

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And personally,
I think that's for the better.

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I think cold needed that,
infusion of help.

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This one is going to be different.

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And now we've got dueling press releases,
and, people are calling people out.

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And, Roy, that's not something
you see a lot in the, in the gun industry.

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So that's the long and the short of it.

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I think I covered most of the salient,
facts there.

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What's your perspective
as a guy who has been watching

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the business side
of the industry for a long, long time?

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I don't think
people realize the significance of this

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because the average shooter is probably
not even aware of this, you know,

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unless they're getting the outdoor wire
and whatnot.

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And I haven't really seen it in mainstream
news media.

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Thank you very much.
Mainstream news media.

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I mean, but basically,
I think if someone here is,

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oh, it's a hostile takeover, right? Yeah.

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They don't really know what that is,
but that's what's happening.

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This is the thing that I was appalled by.

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Is that the.

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It is.

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So Beretta just fired a shot across
Ruger bow here a week or so ago.

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And they they put a press release out,
there, went

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in all the wires that went into the entire
shooting industry.

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And they basically said
that Ruger is irresponsible.

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The leadership is is not doing their job.

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They're driving the company into the dirt
there, you know, and we Beretta

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are trying to come in

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and do the best we can to help
save this grand American company.

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We're just trying to help.

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We're just trying to help.

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I was I was astounded.

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I mean, in 45 years in this industry,

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I have never, not one time

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seen a company take on another company
publicly like this.

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Yeah, maybe there was,
but I sure haven't heard it.

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I've been

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in the middle of it for 45 years.

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So. I mean, I'm sorry,
but you do not do that.

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I mean, other companies are screwing up.

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That's fine.

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And you let them screw up.

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They don't need any help. Right.

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But Brett and I were talking
before we started this show,

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and that if you go into the Smith
and Wesson booth

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that shot show and you say, hey,
what do you tell me about Ruger?

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We talked to the president,
Smith and Wesson and I promise you,

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he or she will say,
I think they're a good, strong company.

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They make fine products.

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I think they take good care
of their customers.

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I'm proud to be in the same industry with.

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That's what you hear it word for word.

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They all say that, which is good.

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I mean that's every it's a supportive.

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This is the only industry I know
where competitors will help each other,

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you know. Yeah.

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I mean, I,

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there were times there were like Ruger
needed springs, and Smith and Wesson

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was able to connect them with the supplier
to get their springs that they needed.

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And I mean, it's just it's astounding.

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And so this, Yeah.

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I don't know if it's this European

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way of thinking, you know.

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Well, That was
that was my follow on question, Roy,

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because you pointed it out in our
in our private conversations

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and I've seen it myself,

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that American companies
have a certain way of, of doing things

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because the American market
is so different.

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We can own multiple guns.

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We can we can own all the guns we want.

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We can, generally speaking,
go shooting and hunting and you know it

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as much as we worry about the,
the negative,

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legislation and laws over shooting, it's

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nothing compared to Europe
and other places.

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So American shooters and the American
shooting market is kind of the Wild West.

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And, you know, if
if Ruger brings something out that fails

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badly, somebody else is going to come out
with something that will not.

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So shooters here have a choice.

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The European mindset
is so much differently.

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And you've dealt a lot more
with with the European, gun manufacturers.

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Roy, talk about your experience,
not specifically Beretta, but

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just how Europeans tend to approach, us
unwashed Americans in our market.

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Well, I agree with you.

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And that's a good thing.

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I would like to say, though, that
following Beretta initial press release,

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which the entire industry
was reeling by this, you know, I got phone

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calls from people saying,
what the hell, you know,

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talk about airing dirty laundry.

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So then Ruger came out with a press
release saying,

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we want to clear up this historica
that was put out by Beretta.

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Well, I notice in today's now, Beretta put
out another press release and basically

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re attacking Ruger saying they were lying
and there this and there he was.

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He says she says,

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I just was amazed.

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I will say this.

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That's how they do business in Europe.

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Okay.

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You ever I mean two New Yorkers
when they're together on a street

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and they're having a good conversation,

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are yelling each other
and calling each other names.

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And then if you ask you about this,
say what that's like, yeah.

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Oh, no, he's my best friend.

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You know.

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Well, in Europe,
that's kind of how they do business.

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Yeah.

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I mean, there's like a lot of yelling
and finger pointing and name calling and

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mudslinging
and that's how they do business, right?

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Yeah.

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I maybe Beretta CEO thinks that.

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Well that's okay.

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I mean, we like Ruger.

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This is just how we do business, you know.

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Well it's not how Americans

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do business generally,
especially in our industry.

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So yeah, I mean I've been you have to
I we were just talk.

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Who was I talking to somebody about.

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This was a European
big European gun company.

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They sent me a semi-auto pistol,

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a medium sized semi-auto poser about
20 years ago is right at the beginning

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of the kind of midsize nine millimeter
auto pistols for concealed carry.

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And they said

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they said here, this is going to be we're
announcing this in the American market,

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and I so I took it and I looked at it
and I said, well, it's a good size.

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It's a good it's nine millimeter
good calibers, good sights.

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I liked everything about.

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But there's no slide release.

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And is this like a prototype
or did you forgot to put it in or what?

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You know, what's the deal?

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And they said, oh no, it doesn't have a
slide release because you don't need one.

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And I said,

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well, wait a minute.

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I mean, the Americans
would be more comfortable with a slide

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release, trust me.

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And they said, oh, it's not necessary

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because the slide will lock
back on an empty magazine.

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You can reinsert the magazine
and then you can load it again.

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I said, well, no, you don't understand.

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American shooters would like to be able
to lock the slide back

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if they want to, or drop the slide,
you know, with the slide release.

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And they were just very patronizing.

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Well, yes.

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But we'll make them understand
how wrong they are.

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And, you know. Sure.

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Because we're Europeans.

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And so of course, it died an instant
death, you know, in the marketplace.

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No, but it was like, cue the crickets.

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And and when I heard from readers,
they said, what the hell is that?

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It doesn't have a slide
release, for crying out loud.

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You know, this

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is the same company who says, well,
like who says, well, what?

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You you buy one rifle chassis
and you can have multiple barrels

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for different calibers.

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Yeah. They never do.

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Well in the United States, right? Never.

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Because like Americans tell me this,
it will wawa another collar bros

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by another rifle.

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You see double
and they just do not understand that.

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So well, that goes to the point
that I was making that, you know,

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in Europe, if, if this gun comes out
without a slide release,

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well, that's what you got in the U.S.

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people won't buy it, but
they'll run over to Ruger or Springfield

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or whomever and, and buy the gun designed
by folks and understand our market.

239
00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,880
So yeah, I mean, Beretta does good work.

240
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:17,960
They've been doing good work
for 500 years.

241
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,040
They've got some some good product, but

242
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,040
I just don't see that this,

243
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,000
corporate cross-pollination,
if you want to put it in

244
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,080
nice terms, would, would really help.

245
00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:32,760
And the other thing
I was going to talk about,

246
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,040
the most recent press
release actually made a, pretty,

247
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,640
straightforward claim that Ruger violated
a non-disclosure agreement,

248
00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,840
by talking about this and that, that
gets into some legally enforceable terms,

249
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,640
if that is indeed what happened,
which I'm not party to it.

250
00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:56,640
I've not seen the paperwork that they did
or didn't sign, but,

251
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,840
I thought that was, again,
that was the thing that I can't imagine.

252
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:00,240
Brett.

253
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,240
His attorneys would say,
yeah, go ahead and talk about that.

254
00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:06,840
If it indeed even happened
on the other side,

255
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,280
I can't imagine Ruger just blindly fired
off a press release without.

256
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:13,880
When's the last time, Roy,

257
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,280
that you heard of a company
sending out a big company sending out

258
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,760
a press release that didn't say,
we got to have legal review this first.

259
00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:21,720
So I'm.

260
00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,200
Yeah, very sure
that Ruger everything that they've said

261
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:28,520
has been vetted by their,
their, gun lawyers.

262
00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,480
So I, I didn't understand
why Beretta would say that.

263
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,480
Well, they violated the NDA
by even talking about this.

264
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,120
Well, because they just will say it
whatever they want to say,

265
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:38,880
because remember,
we're talking about in Europe.

266
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:44,520
You say whatever you want to say,
you know, here's here's a horror mongering

267
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,840
word, you know, and they're talking
about your competitor's company.

268
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,160
President. So yeah, I've seen it.

269
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,440
I've heard him go to the European section
of the shot show.

270
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,360
And that's how they talk about each other
over there.

271
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,600
I know I'm generalizing
and I know Europeans

272
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,680
and they're very nice people,
but there is a different way.

273
00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:02,080
It's like the way New Yorkers do

274
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,200
business is different
from the way other people do business.

275
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,640
I will go on record right now
and say this and that.

276
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:14,320
I if Beretta manages some sort of hostile
takeover of Ruger and becomes

277
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,960
a controlling interest there and starts
to direct the direction of the company,

278
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,240
gun designs and stuff like that,

279
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,440
they're
they will lose the American market.

280
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,800
I mean, they will they won't shut off.

281
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:33,360
But I promise you, you're going
to watch it go lower and lower and lower.

282
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:38,680
And because what's going to happen
is other American companies will step in.

283
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,200
Yep. In other words,
when if Beretta says, well,

284
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,480
we will make these kinds of guns, right.

285
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,480
And American shooters don't want that.

286
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,520
They don't want to be affiliated with it.

287
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,080
You know, by American. Right.

288
00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,080
They're going to now
go look at Ruger as an Italian company,

289
00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,120
which it would be.

290
00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:59,120
And there was.

291
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,400
Bill senior spinning in his grave
at 17:04 p.m..

292
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:03,880
Yeah. Exactly.

293
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,560
And then so other companies will step in
and say

294
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,080
they won't say it, but they will intimate.

295
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,320
They will intimate. Intimate that.

296
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,280
Do you miss your favorite
single shot hunting rifle?

297
00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:19,320
You know,

298
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,160
but yeah, you know, look at our new
something something something.

299
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,200
Right. And no, not shoot.

300
00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,280
Something
the Europeans don't have to deal with.

301
00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:30,960
Here's the gun we're giving you.

302
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,000
You either like it or lump it.

303
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,760
You know,
it doesn't work that way over here.

304
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:36,400
You're right.

305
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:37,640
I mean, because. Who who?

306
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,640
I was talking to somebody the other day,
and they had a, a European come and visit,

307
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,240
and he went to a gun store with him
because they didn't have any gun stores

308
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:46,560
right where they were.

309
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,400
And, and the, the European
he was just astounded.

310
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,960
He said, you can just walk
into a gun store like this.

311
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:53,880
And the guy said, oh, yeah,
it gets better.

312
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,280
Watch.

313
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,280
And he bought like a 22 pistol.

314
00:15:58,320 --> 00:15:58,560
Yeah.

315
00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:02,600
And paid for it
and did his ID, and the guy

316
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,480
put it in a box and shook his head
and thanked him and turned around

317
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,960
and he said, now let's go shoot it.

318
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:07,960
And they walked outside

319
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,080
and he said, this guy was like,
basically just stunned into oblivion.

320
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,280
Where are the. Books? I.

321
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:16,360
I know he said,
you actually have this freedom.

322
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,160
You can just go in and buy a gun like that
and go out.

323
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,840
It was so foreign to him, literally.

324
00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,160
The guy said, I had an immediate convert,
though.

325
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:27,480
Yeah. You know.

326
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:28,200
Wow. Oh, yeah.

327
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:28,680
That was back.

328
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:34,320
To that whole darn constitution
that you know, we, we pound on, but it

329
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,680
it truly is a, a different way than it is

330
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:40,680
anyplace else. But,

331
00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,240
but but not to cut you off,

332
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,320
but I was going to say I think we ought
to talk a little bit about Ruger.

333
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,920
Both you and I have some pretty good roots
with Ruger,

334
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,320
and the point I wanted to make was,
just kind of exacerbating

335
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,000
this problem for Beretta is,
as you talked about,

336
00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,240
if they start taking over design,
I know some of the engineers,

337
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,760
a lot of the marketing folks and,
and I actually, interviewed the CEO,

338
00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,760
the former CEO here on this podcast
a while back.

339
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,800
Almost everybody at Ruger from production

340
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,800
line to CEO are shooters.

341
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,000
I mean, real shooters.

342
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,280
You know, we've talked about that before.

343
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,160
That's usually the downfall of a company.

344
00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:25,160
When you start seeing the guy from,

345
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,040
you know, Ford or,

346
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,280
you know, ladies
feminine products become the CEO,

347
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,400
unless that person really
is a hardcore shooter in their private

348
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,120
life, generally, you'll see that company
start to stumble and fall.

349
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:43,200
And I think that's been one of the
the real strong points of Ruger

350
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,600
is they the folks that work there
believe in Ruger.

351
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,120
They believe in their product.
They believe in the Second Amendment.

352
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:50,280
They believe in shooting.

353
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:51,960
And that's not marketing B.S.

354
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,160
that's based on me sitting around
campfires with Ruger engineers

355
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,600
talking about guns
and seeing the twinkle in their eyes.

356
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,040
And yeah, man, we got this one gun
that we're going to do this.

357
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:03,680
And then, yeah,
we were going to introduce this,

358
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,800
but it just didn't seem to really meet
the needs of the market.

359
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,240
And and they really they talk like we do.

360
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,280
And that's not always the case, especially
as you get bigger and bigger and bigger.

361
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:18,680
Absolutely.

362
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,520
I knew Bill Ruger,

363
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,520
I knew Bill Ruger Jr,
and I knew Tom Ruger.

364
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:27,080
They've all passed away, unfortunately.

365
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,760
And I'm here to tell you,
I mean, I've had dinner with Tom

366
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,760
Ruger and Bill Ruger Jr and,

367
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,320
they used to host a party here
every year at the shot show.

368
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,080
And so Bill Ruger
would be there for a little while usually.

369
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,000
But I would, I have to tell you,
they're just what you're say,

370
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,440
they were passionate,
but what they were mostly passionate about

371
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:51,000
is American shooters
in the American marketplace,

372
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,040
and meeting
the needs of American shooters.

373
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:56,640
And they knew what they were.

374
00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:01,440
I mean, you look at Ruger 1022
in the Blackhawk and the original 22

375
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,720
standard auto and the 77 bolt action

376
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,400
rifle, and all these things address
the needs of American shooters.

377
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,160
You know, they needed an affordable
semi-automatic 22 that work.

378
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,080
They needed a, a bolt action hunting rifle
that was affordable.

379
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,760
They, you know, and Bill Ruger
paid attention and he delivered that.

380
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,160
And he was passionate about it in

381
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,760
I knew their distributors,
I knew their salespeople.

382
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,800
And they were all that way too, they,
they respected

383
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,600
and they knew they
they needed their customers.

384
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,440
And so they treated them like that way.

385
00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:36,000
Yeah.

386
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:41,640
And I, I don't think that Beretta
is that way at all.

387
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:42,480
I'm sorry.

388
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,760
Beretta, but, you know, I mean, I.

389
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,080
Miss card list.

390
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,480
I know I'm off here.

391
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,440
Well, I haven't ever been on it, you know?

392
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:51,080
Okay.

393
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,080
But, I mean, I think I've been to Iowa,

394
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:57,600
you know, the the European
pina called Honor the shot show.

395
00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,160
That's very different there.

396
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:00,840
It as

397
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,480
you said, it's it's it's really pretty
patronizing regarding the customers.

398
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,040
I mean, there are no,

399
00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,200
it was pretty common
for an American company to say, oh,

400
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:11,680
you know, we met with customers.

401
00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,040
We we took our ideas to shooting ranges.

402
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,760
We, you know,
we listen to readers and, and viewers.

403
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,000
And so that's why we came out
with this fill in the blank.

404
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:22,600
But you're exactly right.

405
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,480
The vast majority of the European gun
companies and accessory companies just

406
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,600
say, this is what we're making this year,
and you can have this.

407
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:32,160
Yeah, here.

408
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:33,920
And it may not even make any sense.

409
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,800
It may not even be designed. Right.

410
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:36,720
You know,

411
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,200
and and they're used to dealing with well,
they're about to come up against

412
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,880
a wall here because they're going to try
to pull that with Ruger if they take over

413
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,640
and the shooters,
their customers are going to go.

414
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:49,600
I don't think so.

415
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,040
Well, it's going to be interesting.

416
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,280
And again, back
to the overarching conversation here is

417
00:20:57,520 --> 00:20:59,160
whether it happens or not,

418
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:00,960
I think it's pretty clear
we don't feel like

419
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,440
it's going to be a match made in heaven.

420
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,560
But the bigger picture is
just this idea of,

421
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:09,600
we got a domestic in the, the,

422
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,600
gun industry and airing the dirty laundry
in these dueling press releases.

423
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:16,320
It's just not a good look.

424
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,560
And I got to think that some of the
anti-gun ers in the United States

425
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:24,840
are looking on with glee, thinking,
let them tear themselves apart.

426
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,000
That's just helping our cause.

427
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:29,000
And, I just hate to see it.

428
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,640
And, you know, I.

429
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:35,520
I don't want to paint Beretta
as the villain here, other than

430
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,280
it is a hostile takeover.

431
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:39,800
But it's it's.

432
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,680
I think it's a clash of cultures,
is what this is about.

433
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,520
And it's going to be interesting to see.

434
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,880
Now, like I said,
some of these have worked.

435
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,600
CC purchased Colt.

436
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,880
And, you know,
I think that's overall been a good thing.

437
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:59,520
But, the distinction being I think Colt
needed the help and needed the cash and

438
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:02,760
I mean don't would you agree or disagree
with me on that? Roy?

439
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:06,520
Well, that was a negotiated by,
you know, turf.

440
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:11,600
I mean, when Vista Outdoor sells or when
Remington sold or all that, you know,

441
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,880
that wasn't where people came in
and knocked doors down and kicked

442
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,240
in office doors and took the took over.

443
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,160
Yeah. That's
what Brett is doing right now.

444
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,240
I mean, they use our and, you know what?

445
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,320
I knew this
because when Beretta first bought shares,

446
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,440
they put out a press release and said,
we would just like to be a part of this

447
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,720
very positive American,
and we haven't with

448
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,360
they said
we are not going to try to take over.

449
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:36,200
We're not going to try to do anything.

450
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,000
You know, I remember
I thought you remember that.

451
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:40,640
And it was like,
oh yeah. We talked about it.

452
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:41,840
Yeah, yeah.

453
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,840
I said, yeah, right. I'll bet you what.

454
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,680
I mean, talk about that
big fish in the pond, you know.

455
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:49,520
Yeah.

456
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,920
So and sure enough, you know,
and now they're not even making it secret.

457
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:54,960
They're trying backdoor.

458
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,680
They're trying
all kinds of things are trying to

459
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,680
you know, it's like,
no, this isn't a good thing.

460
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:04,200
And it's really and it's as you say,
it paints the industry in a bad light

461
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,680
because people outside of the industry
might learn about this.

462
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,960
It's bound to hit mainstream media again.

463
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,600
And, it may already is on some economic
shows and things like that podcast,

464
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,880
but they're going to think that's
how we do business.

465
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:19,960
Yeah.

466
00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,520
You know, and.
I hope. It's how we do business.

467
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:24,960
Yeah. And I
and it's not how we do business.

468
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,920
So all right,
well fingers crossed fingers crossed.

469
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:32,120
And keep your popcorn handy because we're
going to be sitting on the sidelines.

470
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:37,080
And, I wrote a story about this, this week
on, guns magazine.com.

471
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:38,760
You could check that out there.

472
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,840
It kind of talks about everything
we've talked about here, but, as I ended,

473
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,040
the story with, you know,

474
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,440
opinions don't matter how we feel about.

475
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,440
It's not going to make any difference
in this, but,

476
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,600
boy, I hate to see this fight,
and I'd hate to,

477
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,440
I just don't think this is a good match,
for the two companies, so.

478
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,120
But I guess we'll see, Roy,

479
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:04,200
because when you're looking at my bank
balance, I'm not in this discussion.

480
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:07,600
I've got two zeroes after after the digit.

481
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,440
So that's my net worth at this point.

482
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,200
So anyway.

483
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,440
It's interesting, and we'd like to hear
what do you think?

484
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,840
Because I know these companies
do pay attention to what shooters,

485
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,440
think and understand
whether they're correct or incorrect.

486
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,400
Because if they're incorrect, they
they try to educate them and

487
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,680
and get the word out, and, that's
that's a good way that they kind of

488
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:35,520
take the pulse of the shooting community.

489
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,120
So let us know what you think.

490
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:40,240
If you're watching on, YouTube,
leave us a comment.

491
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,720
You can always reach us
if you're listening to the podcast by,

492
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:47,560
hitting editor at guns podcast.

493
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,560
Excuse me, guns podcast, not us.

494
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,040
And, we we check those things
and we take them to heart,

495
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:58,200
and, well, I'm very interested to see
what what our community thinks.

496
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,200
So, any final parting thoughts on this?

497
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,160
I, I got to say, Roy, you're you're
you're pretty animated about this.

498
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,880
It's very disappointing.

499
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:11,960
And it's not,
but it's not surprising to me.

500
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:12,600
Yeah.

501
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,840
I mean, because as you and I both know,
what literally when this first happened,

502
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,080
when the first purchase came,
we both said, this is not going to go

503
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:23,880
well, you know, and it
and of course it hasn't.

504
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,880
So, I don't know, I think it's, it's

505
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,080
okay to just stand up to bullies and

506
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,200
I really respect Rutgers press release.

507
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,520
When they came out,
it was very high road, you know.

508
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:37,080
Yeah.

509
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,680
This is this is was said by
this is unfortunate.

510
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,640
This is not actually what happened.

511
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,320
Here's what our concerns are.

512
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,880
Here's, you know, the world
looking out for our stock owners or,

513
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,840
you know,
our customers are important to us.

514
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,080
I mean, it was everything
that you would wanted to hear.

515
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,920
And then, I mean, Brett, it's
just been mudslinging, basically.

516
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,800
And I haven't heard anything
in their press releases about concern

517
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,720
for customers concerned. You know.

518
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,120
They are. You did that in there, Roy.

519
00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:07,600
They did put it in
because I pointed that out in my article

520
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,960
that I don't know if I quite buy
that they're they're looking to maximize,

521
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,920
you know, their company
which that's, that's pure capitalism.

522
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,400
You know, they,
they think there's a business opportunity

523
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,080
here by a hostile
takeover, an American company.

524
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,760
So I at least understand their motivation.

525
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:26,040
But when you say

526
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:27,960
go ahead.

527
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:28,440
Yeah.

528
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,760
Well they're talking about,
you know, share prices and stuff and yeah,

529
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,160
for the stockholders, but not all
the shooters are stockholders in Ruger.

530
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:36,360
No, no, no, not at all.

531
00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:37,160
Not at all. Yeah.

532
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,640
I don't think they said anything
about the end user, the customer.

533
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:43,800
You know, they talked about value
to stockholders and stuff like that.

534
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,360
But yeah.

535
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:48,200
No I there's no that's not sincere to me.

536
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,440
I just it's like
it's like the big bully comes in and

537
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,640
and knocks down somebody
just because they can or you know,

538
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:59,640
and we'll see. Though.

539
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:00,480
I have to laugh.

540
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,080
I'm thinking a, it's an, a Simpsons
episode where the bully comes in

541
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:07,200
and grabs one of the kid's hands and goes,
stop hitting yourself.

542
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,000
Stop hitting yourself.
Stop hitting yourself.

543
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,200
That seems rather apropos
in this circumstance.

544
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:15,000
So it's just amazing.

545
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,800
I'm going to I,
I hope this ends positively.

546
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,360
I don't know enough about the stock market
to understand what, but it's possible.

547
00:27:22,360 --> 00:27:25,360
But from what I do understand,
it is possible.

548
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,840
In spite of the best efforts
of the parent company for

549
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,520
for a comp other company to come in
and do a hostile takeover,

550
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,960
you know, at which point, as you say,
they either maintain they run the company,

551
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,960
they sell the company,
they take the company apart.

552
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:41,600
You know, I mean, I don't know.

553
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,080
Beretta thinks Ruger is a competitor and
that's why they want to take them down.

554
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:46,480
I really don't know.

555
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,120
I mean, because because Beretta doesn't

556
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:51,360
make a $400 bolt action hunting rifle
that I'm aware of.

557
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,280
Yeah. You know, and.

558
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,400
You know,
we didn't even go down that road. That's.

559
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,240
And that's kind of a venture
capital thing, but it's not unheard of

560
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,480
in a hostile takeover that, you know, they
they totally destroy the company.

561
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,640
They take
all their intellectual properties.

562
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,560
I mean, there's
a lot of bad things that can go on.

563
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,200
And we've not even talked about that.

564
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,000
And I hope, I hope this is just Baretta
trying to get into our market.

565
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,920
But they're already in our market,
so I don't know.

566
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,360
I guess we'll see.

567
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:22,800
So yeah, my fingers are crossed
for, Beretta and their employees.

568
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,640
I'm sure there's some sweating going on
over there right now.

569
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,760
Yeah. And I'm not happy about that.

570
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,160
And then speaking as a Beretta cutter,
as a, Ruger customer,

571
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,200
I would sure hate to see things
change there.

572
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,680
So. Yeah. Exactly.

573
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,200
Well, all right, before we get going,
there is a, a couple of,

574
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,520
housekeeping things.

575
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,280
First is a word from our great sponsor,
Eotech.

576
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,960
To explore the full lineup, visit eotech.

577
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:50,880
Inc.com.

578
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,000
Well, as we said there,

579
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,640
grab your popcorn and, we'll see where
this whole thing's this whole thing goes.

580
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,120
And let's hope that great
American company, you know, continues

581
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,440
as the Ruger that we know it,
whomever is, is running the show.

582
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,080
So anyway, this is guns podcast, U.S

583
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,640
brought to you by guns magazine.com
and sponsored by Eotech.

584
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:23,440
Make sure that you we always say it
check and run over to guns magazine.com.

585
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,000
You can see lots of great stuff
from many years over there.

586
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:28,120
Your favorite gun writers.

587
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,240
And yeah,
I write there and Roy writes also

588
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,320
and there's fresh stuff still going up.

589
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:34,920
That's guns magazine.com.

590
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,520
And you can also check out the podcast,
both listen and watch.

591
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,560
And of course we are available on YouTube
and any of the, big podcast directories.

592
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,720
So wherever you watch us,
we certainly appreciate that.

593
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,640
So anyway, we'll get going on this
and bring another great episode

594
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,200
next week on the Guns
Podcast U.S for my host, Roy Huntington.

595
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,480
I am, of course, your host, Brant Wheat.

596
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:01,680
And as I always say, now it's time to get
out there and get shooting.