Top 10 Rules for Indy: Indiana Jones and the Ten Commandments for Making a Proper Sequel

<v Speaker 1>Hello everybody, and welcome back to the show that You
<v Speaker 1>Can't Be Serious Podcast. We are here today with a
<v Speaker 1>very special episode. It is Indiana Jones and the Ten
<v Speaker 1>Commandments of a proper sequel.
<v Speaker 2>We have with us today our good buddy from the
<v Speaker 2>film by podcast, Jeff Johnson. Jeff, how you doing, man.
<v Speaker 3>Hiy, I'm doing great, guys. Thank you for having me
<v Speaker 3>over to have this conversation.
<v Speaker 2>Actually, I should have referred to you correctly. I'm sorry
<v Speaker 2>I didn't interduce you properly. This is Cincinnati, Jeff Johnson.
<v Speaker 2>To my right here is Arkansas d Graves.
<v Speaker 1>Have you heard of me?
<v Speaker 2>Not Arkansas, Dave Rubah, Arkansas Di Graves. And then I,
<v Speaker 2>of course am Oklahoma Jason Colden.
<v Speaker 1>I don't think anything sounds as good as Indiana.
<v Speaker 3>No, it doesn't. You can't beat you can't beat that one.
<v Speaker 1>Although Cincinnati is pretty cool. Cincinnati is be pretty cool.
<v Speaker 3>Came down Cincinnati, Johnson, I could go with that.
<v Speaker 1>Well, guys, we are here today because there has been
<v Speaker 1>a recent release of yet another Indiana Jones sequel called
<v Speaker 1>Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny, and up until
<v Speaker 1>two days ago, for me, the Indiana Jones series was
<v Speaker 1>just a trilogy, that is it. I had seen approximately
<v Speaker 1>nine and a half minutes of the Kingdom of the
<v Speaker 1>Crystal Skull, and I turned it off about ten years
<v Speaker 1>ago or so and have not ventured to see it again.
<v Speaker 1>But I was forced to buy my wife, and I endured.
<v Speaker 1>I endured every bit of it. I paused it to
<v Speaker 1>see how long it took me before I would have
<v Speaker 1>normal turned it off. Disney doesn't give you a time stamp,
<v Speaker 1>but I can tell you it was before they went
<v Speaker 1>into the warehouse.
<v Speaker 2>That's not very long into the movie.
<v Speaker 3>I mean that's.
<v Speaker 1>That's yeah, that is better after that brief So we incepted,
<v Speaker 1>if you will, if you'll let me verbis that word.
<v Speaker 1>We incepted this particular episode because Jeff just saw the
<v Speaker 1>most recent movie, Dial of Destiny and engaged mister Colvin
<v Speaker 1>over here in a It's Oklahoma.
<v Speaker 2>I like Oklahoma.
<v Speaker 1>You call him Doctor Paulmdall engaged him in a conversation
<v Speaker 1>about all of the various shortcomings of the newest movie.
<v Speaker 1>And it was upon that that the realization happened that
<v Speaker 1>we needed to have a list of what you do,
<v Speaker 1>do not do in order to have a good Indiana
<v Speaker 1>Jones sequel.
<v Speaker 2>That's right. Jeff and I were talking. We were like, Okay,
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't have this, it doesn't have this. It needed this,
<v Speaker 2>it needed that. What the heck are they thinking? We
<v Speaker 2>can see it plain as day. Why can't they figure
<v Speaker 2>this out? It has since been thirty four years since
<v Speaker 2>we've had a good Indiana Jones movie, That's absolutely true.
<v Speaker 2>We started talking about the shortcomings of the Disney era
<v Speaker 2>Indiana Jones films, and then we start talking about the
<v Speaker 2>original trilogy and what it got right, we start talking
<v Speaker 2>about like, well, what would it take to make a
<v Speaker 2>proper sequel to Indiana Jones. So we're going to start
<v Speaker 2>this off. This is actually going to be the Ten
<v Speaker 2>Commandments of an Indiana Jones movie. You either have to
<v Speaker 2>have or can't have these ten items that we have here, right, that's.
<v Speaker 1>All short at just one point is guilty of breaking
<v Speaker 1>all of them there, It is right there. As long
<v Speaker 1>as we're telling the ten Commandments here, might as well
<v Speaker 1>keep it biblical.
<v Speaker 2>He clearly has been.
<v Speaker 3>A Sunday school. Didn't you guys go to Sunday School?
<v Speaker 1>So the Ten Commandments, which we are about to start.
<v Speaker 1>Before we get going, it's important to Note that both
<v Speaker 1>Jason and Jeff, that is, Cincinnati and Oklahoma, have seen
<v Speaker 1>the most recent Indiana Jones movie. I have not. I
<v Speaker 1>do not know after hearing their impressions whether I'm inclined
<v Speaker 1>to do so. We will do our best to keep
<v Speaker 1>this spoiler free, but something may slipped out of passion.
<v Speaker 2>Cincinnati, Jeff Johnson, are you ready?
<v Speaker 3>I am ready? Let's do this.
<v Speaker 2>Arkansas, D. Graves are you ready?
<v Speaker 1>Fortune and Glory, Kid, Fortune and Glory.
<v Speaker 2>We know what a careful fellow you guys are, so
<v Speaker 2>let's dive in, starting with commandment number one one, thou
<v Speaker 2>shalt always have the proper Indiana Jones uniform that includes
<v Speaker 2>a fedora, a leather jacket, a bull whip, and a gun.
<v Speaker 3>Pretty simple. One more item though, okay with you? This
<v Speaker 3>is an item that he's going to have more so
<v Speaker 3>than the leather jacket. Cases talk about his shoulder bag,
<v Speaker 3>his purse, Yeah, yeah, his satchel. It's you know, actually
<v Speaker 3>it's actually a Mark seven British gas mask bag. That's
<v Speaker 3>not era appropriate because it's a mid forties, early to
<v Speaker 3>mid forties and obviously indi'es galivanting around in nineteen thirty
<v Speaker 3>four thirty five, thirty six. But yeah, he's got to
<v Speaker 3>have the shoulder bag to put all his true his
<v Speaker 3>idols in stones and what hags of sand and all that. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>his bags of sand, its crosses of Coronado.
<v Speaker 1>So just I saw this today. Apparently when mel Brooks
<v Speaker 1>went to George Lucas to say, Hey, I want to
<v Speaker 1>do a parody of the Star Wars trilogy, and you know,
<v Speaker 1>my I'm going to have a guy who's kind of
<v Speaker 1>a Han Solo character. George Lucas said, I will let
<v Speaker 1>you do the parody without complaint, but you cannot dress
<v Speaker 1>him like Han Solo. You can't give him that standard
<v Speaker 1>on Solo garb. And so what he did instead was
<v Speaker 1>to dress him like Indiana Jones. Nice, no fedora, but
<v Speaker 1>he did have the leather jacket, the padre, the pants,
<v Speaker 1>but fedora, leather jacket, bull whipping gun. I think we're
<v Speaker 1>all of the features that Fielberg and Lucas discussed whenever
<v Speaker 1>they were building sand castles and Hawaii coming up with
<v Speaker 1>the idea for this movie in the first place.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely necessary. Gotta have all those now. Then quick question, Jeff, Yes,
<v Speaker 2>does Indiana Jones carry a gun in the Dial of Destiny.
<v Speaker 2>The fact that you have to think about it, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>says it all right.
<v Speaker 3>I honestly don't recall him carrying one.
<v Speaker 2>I don't think he does. I don't think he's spoilers.
<v Speaker 2>He steals a gun and he and he shoots a guy,
<v Speaker 2>but he used it that guy's own gun against him.
<v Speaker 2>I don't think he carried a gun the entire movie.
<v Speaker 3>No, I don't. I don't recall him ever having one
<v Speaker 3>in the movie, now that you think about.
<v Speaker 2>It, Okay, Now, then does he wearries fedora?
<v Speaker 3>He does? He does indeed have the fedora.
<v Speaker 2>Does he wear his leather jacket?
<v Speaker 3>He does have the leather jacket.
<v Speaker 2>Okay. Does he use the bullwhep?
<v Speaker 3>He And this is no spoiler because you've seen it
<v Speaker 3>in the trailer. He's he's menacing with the bullwhip. He
<v Speaker 3>you know in the in the Cairo market scene, but
<v Speaker 3>uh a Morocco scene. But uh, I think that's all
<v Speaker 3>he does with it. If if cracks it a couple
<v Speaker 3>of times, cracks it a few times, you know, get back. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>I'm our god, I'm our godfather. Yeah. I think that's
<v Speaker 3>the only time you even see him use the whip.
<v Speaker 2>I agree, with you. So he really didn't use his gun,
<v Speaker 2>and he really didn't use his bullwhip. So I think
<v Speaker 2>the caveat we should add is that he has to
<v Speaker 2>use these items.
<v Speaker 3>Right, well, yeah, I mean I think every every film,
<v Speaker 3>the first four films, he makes significant use of his accessories,
<v Speaker 3>you know, of his.
<v Speaker 1>Tour, a comedical effect when he tries to use it
<v Speaker 1>but can't.
<v Speaker 2>That's right, that would be I would be good.
<v Speaker 1>Within the bridge on the rope Bridge at Temple of Doom.
<v Speaker 2>That's right. Okay, quick question. I don't want to detail
<v Speaker 2>the whole podcast here, but is Harrison Ford mandatory to
<v Speaker 2>have an Indiana Jones movie?
<v Speaker 3>This is a tough question because here's where I'm at
<v Speaker 3>with it. We have fallen in love when you talk
<v Speaker 3>about iconic heroes, and on the silver screen, we're talking Superman,
<v Speaker 3>James Bond, Sherlock Holmes, Batman. We're in love with these characters.
<v Speaker 3>But we've had forty to fifty years to see different
<v Speaker 3>iterations of them. Right. There has always been you know,
<v Speaker 3>when someone signs up to play a superhero role, you know, okay,
<v Speaker 3>well we're gonna have them for a good five ten
<v Speaker 3>years maybe hopefully, and then someone's they're going to pass
<v Speaker 3>the torch. Same thing with James Bond, the thing with Indy.
<v Speaker 3>We've only had Harrison Ford, you know, this entire time.
<v Speaker 3>So where the generations have had an opportunity to move
<v Speaker 3>on with new actors for their beloved characters, the original
<v Speaker 3>generation for Indiana Jones and the current generation for India
<v Speaker 3>Jones and everyone in between, we haven't had that. Ford
<v Speaker 3>is Indiana Jones. So it's a tricky thing to answer,
<v Speaker 3>but in my heart of hearts, I have to say,
<v Speaker 3>he showed us the way, but the character should not
<v Speaker 3>die with him. Give it five years, give it ten years,
<v Speaker 3>give it, give us a break, you know, let us
<v Speaker 3>miss the character and process the end of Harrison Ford's run.
<v Speaker 3>That's what I would say.
<v Speaker 1>You guys watched the Indiana Jones chronicles, the Young Indiana
<v Speaker 1>Jones chronicles.
<v Speaker 2>I've seen, yep, some of them.
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So no Harrison Ford. There, you had Sean Patrick
<v Speaker 1>Flannery as Indiana Jones, as Young Indiana Jones and those
<v Speaker 1>and so I don't know, I haven't seen those movies.
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that's worthy, but I think as
<v Speaker 1>far as Harrison Ford is concerned, it has to be
<v Speaker 1>Harrison Ford. He's like, nobody else can be Indiana Jones
<v Speaker 1>as long as I'm alive, and so as far as
<v Speaker 1>he's concerned, that's the way it is.
<v Speaker 3>Now.
<v Speaker 2>If you look at that's not his call to make.
<v Speaker 1>Well, I was gonna say, if you look at James Bond,
<v Speaker 1>which this was was the inspiration kind of behind this
<v Speaker 1>whole character. Obviously you've up multiple actor changes throughout its history.
<v Speaker 1>Can you do it? Yeah, I think you could do
<v Speaker 1>it if you've got the right guy. But I think
<v Speaker 1>it needs to be an entirely new thing. It's just,
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're starting back over it. It has to
<v Speaker 1>be a reboot, and that's that's where I think that goes.
<v Speaker 2>I think what you touched on right there, the model
<v Speaker 2>franchise for Indiana Jones movies is the James Bond franchise.
<v Speaker 2>What if Sean Connery had held onto that for forty.
<v Speaker 3>Years, it wouldn't be believable.
<v Speaker 2>It wouldn't be believable. We would have missed out on
<v Speaker 2>a ton of movies and it would have held that
<v Speaker 2>character back. So thank you, Harrison Ford. You have given
<v Speaker 2>us one of the most iconic characters of all time.
<v Speaker 2>Try to pass the torch.
<v Speaker 3>Let's go, thank you for your service. Let's let's see
<v Speaker 3>the next generation.
<v Speaker 1>I'm not ready to kick him off the boat yet.
<v Speaker 2>But wait till you see him in action.
<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, I would say action is a strong word there, Jason.
<v Speaker 3>You know, wait till you see him in the new film.
<v Speaker 3>That's what I would. I think that's a better way
<v Speaker 3>to say.
<v Speaker 2>In Crystal Skull, he was what sixty five or so, yep,
<v Speaker 2>and still capable of doing a lot of his stunts
<v Speaker 2>in action and throwing punches. In this one he looked old.
<v Speaker 3>You know, say what you yeah, say what you about
<v Speaker 3>Crystal Skull. But at least in that film, we had
<v Speaker 3>Indiana Jones running around, Indiana jonesing. He was. He was
<v Speaker 3>cracking the whip, he was punching guys out, he was running,
<v Speaker 3>he was, he was Indiana Jones. Still the second commandment too,
<v Speaker 3>thou shalt not over complicate thy my guffin. So look,
<v Speaker 3>here's the deal. The key to all these films, these
<v Speaker 3>these these amazing movies, is what's motivating him. What is
<v Speaker 3>he going after? It should have historical significance, It should
<v Speaker 3>border on the supernatural, and it above and beyond. It
<v Speaker 3>should be. It should be mysterious, right, it should provoke wonder.
<v Speaker 2>I guess what we've had so far as the Ark
<v Speaker 2>of the Covenant really in Raiders, you also have kind
<v Speaker 2>of the miss sterious the head piece to the staff
<v Speaker 2>of Raw you know, you have that, you do Egyptian stuff,
<v Speaker 2>that's a lot of fun. You have the shunkarstones from
<v Speaker 2>Temple of Doom. They have mysterious properties.
<v Speaker 3>Mm hmm.
<v Speaker 2>You have the Holy Grail, the Cup of Christ from
<v Speaker 2>the third one, and then.
<v Speaker 3>We move into.
<v Speaker 2>Crystal skulls and UFOs and that type of thing.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I understand that Lucas you know, he was kind
<v Speaker 3>of compelled to say, hey, this is Indian the fifties
<v Speaker 3>and what was what was the fifties all about? The
<v Speaker 3>sci fi rage had started, right, UFOs and men from
<v Speaker 3>Mars and that, you know, whereas the original trilogy in
<v Speaker 3>the thirties it was all about those original serials, you know,
<v Speaker 3>and movies like Treasures Sarah Madre with Humpri Bogart. Now
<v Speaker 3>we're in the fifties, so I understand why he went
<v Speaker 3>where he went, but it doesn't mean that it worked.
<v Speaker 2>What do you think about the Numcguffin?
<v Speaker 3>I think it was a great idea lousy execution.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, you know you and I were talking. They name
<v Speaker 2>it about three different things.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was scratching my head because I was like, wait,
<v Speaker 3>I thought we were going after the Dial of Destiny.
<v Speaker 3>Oh we're not. We're going after Jason. I actually can't
<v Speaker 3>even remember all the names that they use, but it's
<v Speaker 3>like it's record on Carrosa or something like that. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>the anti Thria or yeah, I don't know, it's it's
<v Speaker 3>I do recall them talking about like like I didn't
<v Speaker 3>at least three different names. Yeah, so I was like, wait,
<v Speaker 3>are we going after three different things? Or oh, it's
<v Speaker 3>the same thing. It's just but you know, it's like
<v Speaker 3>if you say Grail, we know that it's the Holy
<v Speaker 3>Grail or the Cup of Christ. You can say that
<v Speaker 3>because it's it makes sense, you know, the Arc or
<v Speaker 3>the Ark of the Covenant. But something weird like this,
<v Speaker 3>you don't want to give it multiple names. I think
<v Speaker 3>for me that was as a viewer, that was confusing
<v Speaker 3>and kind of pointless.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, And just to double down on what you said,
<v Speaker 2>the Second Commandment, Indiana Jones at his heart is a
<v Speaker 2>treasure hunter slash grave robber slash archaeologist.
<v Speaker 3>Right, yeah, I could. I could do abug grave robber.
<v Speaker 3>You know you sound like chatter lull there at Pancott,
<v Speaker 3>But it was his misunderstanding equities.
<v Speaker 2>There it is, yes, there, it is there. It is
<v Speaker 2>all right.
<v Speaker 3>We are two.
<v Speaker 1>Commandment number three three thou shalt tell stories of action adventure,
<v Speaker 1>never science fiction, which according to you guys, also includes
<v Speaker 1>time travel. And I have to agree that can't be
<v Speaker 1>your central issue. And this goes back to our kind
<v Speaker 1>of key point about Commandment number two. It needs to
<v Speaker 1>have historical significance. This needs to be a real historical thing.
<v Speaker 1>And from what I gathered, the Dial of Destiny is
<v Speaker 1>not an actual, real historical thing. It's just something they
<v Speaker 1>kind of made up. And there it's so many lost
<v Speaker 1>treasures out there that you have the opportunity to do
<v Speaker 1>something with. Why make something up like this?
<v Speaker 3>I know it's based off of an actual thing that
<v Speaker 3>was found, which people now nowadays are saying this is
<v Speaker 3>this is kind of like the workings of like the
<v Speaker 3>very first computer, and that people in each and Greece
<v Speaker 3>shouldn't have had the precision gears that it had. That's
<v Speaker 3>about as far as it goes in reality and then
<v Speaker 3>the rest, you know, the whole time travel angle has
<v Speaker 3>been added to it.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the whole basis of the original idea Raiders
<v Speaker 1>have lost arc Grail. All of it is that India
<v Speaker 1>is a doubter. He is a doubter in the supernatural.
<v Speaker 1>His character arc for each of those movies is to
<v Speaker 1>move from doubter to believer. That's the whole point. That's
<v Speaker 1>what that's what we are here to see. And so
<v Speaker 1>if your mcguffin is a scientific instrument, it doesn't have
<v Speaker 1>any magical unexplainable by science powers, Well, what's the big
<v Speaker 1>deal in him coming to believe in this thing? There's
<v Speaker 1>not one. It doesn't make any sense. It's kind of
<v Speaker 1>it's the same way I feel about Kingdom of the
<v Speaker 1>Crystal Skull. They've taken something and given it like historical significance,
<v Speaker 1>but it's based completely in science and not at all
<v Speaker 1>in the belief beyond our current realm.
<v Speaker 2>Now now you can actually see it on his face
<v Speaker 2>when he goes to the map room in Raiders and
<v Speaker 2>he's got the headpiece of Steph of raw at the
<v Speaker 2>right time of day with the sunlight coming through, and
<v Speaker 2>you get that swell of music from John Williams, and
<v Speaker 2>it blows up that spot where the Well of Souls
<v Speaker 2>is and you see the look on Harrison Port's face
<v Speaker 2>or Indian A Jones's face, and all of a sudden,
<v Speaker 2>he's like, oh my gosh, this is really happening. Like
<v Speaker 2>God is speaking through this crystal.
<v Speaker 1>Of the chorus of oz behind.
<v Speaker 2>It's amazing.
<v Speaker 3>Right, he becomes a true believer.
<v Speaker 2>Hey, you know, before we go any further, is it
<v Speaker 2>fair for us to compare any movie to Raiders?
<v Speaker 1>I I still maintain that the third movie, that Last Crusade,
<v Speaker 1>is arguably better than Raiders. I love Raiders. I mean
<v Speaker 1>I hold it in the highest regard, but I think
<v Speaker 1>that Last Crusade is equally as good, if not in
<v Speaker 1>some respects better. I know some people think Temple of
<v Speaker 1>Doom is better, but the formula that they followed in
<v Speaker 1>each of those movies is beautiful, and I think they
<v Speaker 1>do it. I think they top themselves by bringing Henry
<v Speaker 1>Jones Sr. Into the mix, who just happens to be
<v Speaker 1>a former James Bond guy. I mean, it's just it's too.
<v Speaker 2>Perfect, So desays yes, Jeff, what do you think.
<v Speaker 3>I say Raiders is a perfect film. I could imagine
<v Speaker 3>changing a single frame of that. So is it fair? No?
<v Speaker 3>Do we have to do it? Yeah? The fourth Commandment four,
<v Speaker 3>thou shalt not take thy heroes name in vain. His
<v Speaker 3>name is Indiana Jones, doctor Jones to his colleagues, Indy
<v Speaker 3>to his friends, it's not Henry. And and Tod's point
<v Speaker 3>talking about Last Crusade, I don't recall a single moment
<v Speaker 3>where his father calls him Henry. He calls him Junior
<v Speaker 3>through the whole movie, which is acceptable if you're Sean
<v Speaker 3>Connery's character, even Henry Jones Senr. The one time he
<v Speaker 3>references his name, he says, Indiana, let it go.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's exactly right.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's not Henry. It bothered me in Crystal Skull
<v Speaker 3>when when Oxley kept calling him that it's not Henry
<v Speaker 3>and it's definitely not jonesy. I cannot stand that. Jason,
<v Speaker 3>we were talking about Crystal Skull earlier, about the Mac character.
<v Speaker 3>My take was cut him out of the movie completely.
<v Speaker 3>He's a pointless character. He's not likable. He's not unlikable
<v Speaker 3>enough to register, you know, like ah, that that's an
<v Speaker 3>awful guy. He's a pointless character. He bothers me. Ray
<v Speaker 3>Winstone is a great actor, but every time he says
<v Speaker 3>Jonesy in that movie, I WinCE. And you better believe
<v Speaker 3>I was wincing hard when someone when Helena Shaw was
<v Speaker 3>using it in the New One.
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, absolutely, don't ever ever call him.
<v Speaker 1>Henry, call him doctor Jones, doll.
<v Speaker 2>It's really not that hard. Don't call him Henry. It's Indiana.
<v Speaker 2>He likes Indiana. Commandment number five five thou shalt always
<v Speaker 2>use the acquisition of knowledge as the final superpower of
<v Speaker 2>Indiana Jones. Now, then this is a little bit complex,
<v Speaker 2>so I want to just state my case on this one.
<v Speaker 1>Okay.
<v Speaker 2>So Indy and Belloc are basically identical in Raiders of
<v Speaker 2>the Lost Ark. They're both smart.
<v Speaker 3>We reflection, that's it.
<v Speaker 2>It would only take us a nudge to push him
<v Speaker 2>into the But basically, they're smart, they're capable, they're respected,
<v Speaker 2>they know what they're doing, they know what they're going after,
<v Speaker 2>they know how to do it. What's the difference, Andy
<v Speaker 2>tells Marion, shut your eyes, Marian, don't look at it.
<v Speaker 2>He has become a believer, and therefore that acquisition, that
<v Speaker 2>belief is what gives him the edge over his enemies.
<v Speaker 2>It also happens when he is choosing the cup of
<v Speaker 2>a Carpenter in the Last Crusade. Now, then Donovan completely
<v Speaker 2>arbitrarily just picks one and does the completely stupid thing.
<v Speaker 2>And just what do you think, Elsa, which one is? Okay?
<v Speaker 3>This one?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah sounds good, let's drink.
<v Speaker 1>He chose. He chose.
<v Speaker 2>But he uses his brains to choose the cup of
<v Speaker 2>a Carpenter. Obviously it's not gonna be jewel and crustard.
<v Speaker 2>It's just gonna be a wooden cup. So using his
<v Speaker 2>brains as his final superpower is a must for the
<v Speaker 2>Indiana Jones character.
<v Speaker 3>I agree.
<v Speaker 1>So you didn't like it when they just decided to
<v Speaker 1>run away at the end of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull,
<v Speaker 1>like that was the solution. All these aliens are come
<v Speaker 1>to life run away.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's one thing I want to bring up spoiler free.
<v Speaker 2>There is a puzzle that is not solved by Indiana
<v Speaker 2>Jones in the Dial of Destiny that I wanted to
<v Speaker 2>stand up and throw my coke at the screen.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. Thank goodness.
<v Speaker 3>This in the new one, Thank goodness, the sidekick doesn't
<v Speaker 3>have to solve the puzzles, because are you know, the
<v Speaker 3>the new the new hero was there to take care
<v Speaker 3>of that for us.
<v Speaker 2>And you know, sad, very sad betrayal, betrayal, well, especially.
<v Speaker 3>When Indy's just sitting there like, uh, tell tell me more,
<v Speaker 3>you know, I'm at your feet A wise one. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>man Command number six six thou shalt not bear false
<v Speaker 3>witness with CGI. Okay, so you guys have heard me
<v Speaker 3>complain about CGI before. Jason I recently did a recording
<v Speaker 3>of an episode where we did the worst sequels of
<v Speaker 3>the eighties. And not to give away anything, but caddy
<v Speaker 3>Shack two did come up, and Jason talked about his
<v Speaker 3>reaction to the new round hog gopher thing in Caddyshack
<v Speaker 3>two and is absolute disdain for it. And I will
<v Speaker 3>say right now, Spike in the Football, bad practical effect
<v Speaker 3>gopher from Caddyshack two is still much better than CGI.
<v Speaker 1>Round hogs from the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
<v Speaker 3>Wow.
<v Speaker 2>Spike in the Football, Wow, that's big time right there.
<v Speaker 3>I don't I don't know that I can disagree with him.
<v Speaker 3>The gophers in Crystal Skull are so card too.
<v Speaker 2>It's ludicrous.
<v Speaker 3>It's one thing that they look cartoony, but the fact
<v Speaker 3>that they act like Disney animated characters, you know, with
<v Speaker 3>their whole curious, quizzical nature and silliness. I couldn't stand it.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and again, absolutely unnecessary. Number one, I get what
<v Speaker 1>you're trying to do with the groundhog hole at the
<v Speaker 1>beginning in the shape of the mountain, but number one,
<v Speaker 1>I thought it was offensive. I just was just like, really,
<v Speaker 1>unless you are coming out and saying, hey, guys, for
<v Speaker 1>our fourth Indiana Jones, we are going to make fun
<v Speaker 1>of ourselves. Unless you come out and say that like
<v Speaker 1>they did with like lethal weapon for or whatever, then
<v Speaker 1>doing stuff like that is just like spitting in the
<v Speaker 1>face of your fans.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I could drive thirty minutes down the road to
<v Speaker 2>the Oklahoma City Zoo, I get you some footage of gophers,
<v Speaker 2>real groundhogs, real groundhogs, and it would look totally fine.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I mean again, you know, we've always started these
<v Speaker 3>movies with a transition from the paramount logo to an
<v Speaker 3>actual mountain, and I thought that was when I first
<v Speaker 3>saw it. I was like, Oh, that's that's that's cool,
<v Speaker 3>that's brilliant, right, you could have just had an actual
<v Speaker 3>roundhaul come out of that thing at that point, but
<v Speaker 3>you didn't. You had a cartoon pop out and say hello, sough.
<v Speaker 3>You almost wonder do we start off with such a
<v Speaker 3>ludicrous CGI effect just so the rest of what you
<v Speaker 3>saw you're like, okay, well it was at least it
<v Speaker 3>wasn't the gopher. You know, it's not that bad. I
<v Speaker 3>don't know. Maybe they are like setting trying to set.
<v Speaker 1>A gopher to to burst out and go to bit.
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.
<v Speaker 1>By the way, go check out our podcast with Dayton
<v Speaker 1>Johnson on the Docking Base seventy seven podcast where we
<v Speaker 1>talk about who framed Roger Rabbit.
<v Speaker 2>So I was talking to Def Dave about this before
<v Speaker 2>we started. It's not just the overuse of CGI, it's
<v Speaker 2>the lack of practical effects. Oh thing about raiders that
<v Speaker 2>made it so great and Timple and last crusade Erison
<v Speaker 2>Ford is dirty, he's gritty, he's scraped up, he's bruised,
<v Speaker 2>he's broken. He gets thrown out of a windshield, he
<v Speaker 2>falls over the front of a truck, he goes underneath
<v Speaker 2>the truck. You see a guy being drug by a truck.
<v Speaker 2>I remember that was on That's incredible. I mean it
<v Speaker 2>was a big deal in these hard, practical stunts. When
<v Speaker 2>Indy jumps from a tuck tuck to another tuck tuck
<v Speaker 2>in dial A Destiny, you see it in the trailer,
<v Speaker 2>Indy can barely get out of bed. Are you telling
<v Speaker 2>me that he makes that acrobatic leap?
<v Speaker 3>And let's talk about the CGI there too, because and
<v Speaker 3>this is you you see this in the trailer. It's
<v Speaker 3>not so much that he jumps from one. It's it
<v Speaker 3>almost looks like someone's throwing a rag doll from one
<v Speaker 3>to the other. It's like he kind of like does
<v Speaker 3>like a lateral sway. Yeah, yeah, it's uh. I didn't
<v Speaker 3>buy for one second. And the CGI in the new
<v Speaker 3>one is more egregious than Crystal Skull in my opinion,
<v Speaker 3>because we get how many pointless chasing that are just
<v Speaker 3>a CGI blurry mess that that going far too long
<v Speaker 3>and are boring, boring should never be used in an
<v Speaker 3>Indiana Jones film.
<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's right. In fact, Dave just text me
<v Speaker 2>and said it has to be fun. So like one
<v Speaker 2>of his commandments is that it's gotta be fun. Before
<v Speaker 2>I'm accused of talking out of both sides of my mouth,
<v Speaker 2>I want to I want to pose this to you guys.
<v Speaker 2>So you guys watch The Mandalorian. Oh yeah, okay, the
<v Speaker 2>last episode of season two, I believe, I can't remember exactly,
<v Speaker 2>A beloved character shows up in The Mandalorian and they
<v Speaker 2>deage him with computer graphics. And I was doing backflips
<v Speaker 2>because I thought it was freaking awesome.
<v Speaker 1>You didn't like it, did not?
<v Speaker 2>Okay?
<v Speaker 3>Wow? I love it?
<v Speaker 2>Cgi So do we think that this worked? The d
<v Speaker 2>aging of Harrison Ford? Did this work in Dialodestiny?
<v Speaker 3>So here's where I'm at with it. It's it's a
<v Speaker 3>magic trick. Okay, you do a slighter hand, I don't
<v Speaker 3>catch it, and I'm mystified, right, But if you slow
<v Speaker 3>it down and you give me a chance to really
<v Speaker 3>look hard, really look close, then I can start to
<v Speaker 3>find some flaws. I love the opening sequence, Jason, we
<v Speaker 3>talked about. I love the opening sequence of Dialodestiny. I
<v Speaker 3>thought it was a fantastic throwback to the last Crusade
<v Speaker 3>era for Indiana Jones. But it maybe went on a
<v Speaker 3>little too long. And the longer it went, the more
<v Speaker 3>you could start to see, like, well, wait, the eyes
<v Speaker 3>are kind of weird, you know, like that what they
<v Speaker 3>call the dead eye when anytime they d age someone,
<v Speaker 3>there's always that that thing where they can't just capture
<v Speaker 3>the eyes right, right, And that's a minor thing. But
<v Speaker 3>the real problem for me was just hearing Harrison Ford's craggy, grumpy,
<v Speaker 3>eighty year old voice coming out coming out of a
<v Speaker 3>forty year old Harrison Ford. And I didn't understand why
<v Speaker 3>they didn't digitally clean that up, you know, much of
<v Speaker 3>the way they did with Val Kilmer in Maverick.
<v Speaker 2>You and I talked about that the other night. Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>and it's the voice does not match, the face doesn't
<v Speaker 2>match what we're seeing, and you got to gravelly old Harrison,
<v Speaker 2>but you pointed it out. They did that and Top
<v Speaker 2>done average where they cleaned up Valcimra's voice and they
<v Speaker 2>computer generated it based on all of his other movies
<v Speaker 2>and stuff like that.
<v Speaker 3>And I was like, yeah, so how do you there
<v Speaker 3>is a just a treasure trove of material for Harrison Ford.
<v Speaker 3>I mean you think about everything that that they could
<v Speaker 3>have got they could have pulled from. Truthfully, he wouldn't
<v Speaker 3>even have to utter the dialogue. They could have just
<v Speaker 3>made a sound board based off what he said before.
<v Speaker 3>Similar what they did with Valcolmer, you know, but the
<v Speaker 3>fact that they didn't, I felt that that was lazy honestly,
<v Speaker 3>not that it's CGI, but it's you know, it's part
<v Speaker 3>of that computer generated effect.
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I think your magic trick analogy captures it perfectly.
<v Speaker 1>If if I can tell, like if I can see
<v Speaker 1>what the what the sleight of hand is, then you
<v Speaker 1>haven't done a good job with it. And with a
<v Speaker 1>movie of this magnitude, with this much funding, you should
<v Speaker 1>fool me.
<v Speaker 3>Yes, And if.
<v Speaker 1>Your groundhogs look like cartoons and your de aging looks
<v Speaker 1>like a computer filter on an Instagram, you didn't do
<v Speaker 1>it right. And it's so easy to fix because half
<v Speaker 1>of Indiana's face is always in the shadow, Like I mean,
<v Speaker 1>just darken it, darken the place where he is, put
<v Speaker 1>those shadows around. That's I mean. I said the same
<v Speaker 1>thing with the beloved character and the Mandalorian. If he'd
<v Speaker 1>kept his hood on have been great. You never would
<v Speaker 1>have had worried about. But it's like they want to
<v Speaker 1>show off. And then when they show off, it's like
<v Speaker 1>it's like your five year old showing off their artwork.
<v Speaker 1>You're like, didn't I do great? Doesn't looking exactly like
<v Speaker 1>a bear.
<v Speaker 3>Oh sure, I quote Marcus Brody, they're meddling with powers.
<v Speaker 3>They cannot understand.
<v Speaker 2>Commendment number seven seven thou shalt not believe in thy
<v Speaker 2>perfect hero. All right, So on this one, I want
<v Speaker 2>to make sure that we understand Indiana Jones. He makes mistakes.
<v Speaker 2>He's not perfect, he's not a superhero. He gets hurt,
<v Speaker 2>he gets scraped and scratched and bruised. The scene in
<v Speaker 2>Raiders where after he's been drugged by the truck, he's
<v Speaker 2>been punched by every German known de man, and then
<v Speaker 2>Marian's trying to nurse him a little bit and he
<v Speaker 2>can barely get his shirt off. That's great. We want
<v Speaker 2>our heroes to be just like us. He gets shot
<v Speaker 2>and Raiders are lost dark, It skims, it goes in
<v Speaker 2>and out of his shoulder. You can just see the
<v Speaker 2>pain on his face. This is killing me. That guy's
<v Speaker 2>punching him in the already dying, right.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well, think about Raiders, and I don't want to
<v Speaker 3>get a soft track. But when he's fighting the German
<v Speaker 3>mechanic and that guy levels him just the way Harrison
<v Speaker 3>Ford wobbles his knees as he drops, like I felt
<v Speaker 3>that punch and if you've ever been hitting the face,
<v Speaker 3>you know you know what that what that feels like,
<v Speaker 3>and you know what your body does, how your body reacts.
<v Speaker 3>Marian trying to help him with his shirt off, and
<v Speaker 3>he's like, ah, oh you believe it.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, never been shot out before. This happens to me
<v Speaker 1>all the You call this archaeology. So this, I mean,
<v Speaker 1>I had already given up on the movie well in
<v Speaker 1>advance of the scene. But this is really to your point.
<v Speaker 1>The place that you lose him as a normal human
<v Speaker 1>being happens in the crystal skull. Whenever he goes into
<v Speaker 1>the refrigerator, he is blasted out by an atomic blast.
<v Speaker 1>He lands in the refrigerator. I have no idea why
<v Speaker 1>it's the only thing that gets blasted out of the
<v Speaker 1>fake town is the refrigerator by itself, but that's what happens.
<v Speaker 1>And then it shows you him looking at the mushroom cloud.
<v Speaker 1>That's big, like it's not often the distance a thousand miles,
<v Speaker 1>it's huge. He would be dead as he stood, you'd
<v Speaker 1>be dead as he stood. As it turns out, all
<v Speaker 1>he had to get was a little scrubbing, and he's
<v Speaker 1>perfectly fine. There's no bruises, there's no cuts. He's been
<v Speaker 1>blasted fifty miles in a refrigerator and has no purple
<v Speaker 1>mark on him at all and is relaxing with his
<v Speaker 1>thought at the end of the day. I mean, it's
<v Speaker 1>just absurd.
<v Speaker 3>D If I put you, If I put you inside
<v Speaker 3>of a lead lined refrigerator and I just drop you
<v Speaker 3>ten feet off off a building, how many broken bones
<v Speaker 3>are you getting when that thing pops open? Because yeah,
<v Speaker 3>you're right, man, he just he kind of rolls out
<v Speaker 3>and kind of groggy AND's like, you know, gives us
<v Speaker 3>a little Harrison Ford grumpy grel and no problem.
<v Speaker 2>It was lead lined bad bad, by the way, I'll
<v Speaker 2>just say the John McClean stories movies have made the
<v Speaker 2>same mistake.
<v Speaker 1>It needs to be fun. I think the Bullet Dune
<v Speaker 1>lost of fun with that dark tone, So you gotta
<v Speaker 1>keep it fun. Thank you, def Dave for your take
<v Speaker 1>on that commandment number eight.
<v Speaker 3>Eight.
<v Speaker 1>Thou shalt not give any sitting exposition these movies because
<v Speaker 1>they have historical significance that has to be explained. I
<v Speaker 1>understand it. Exposition is necessary with this type of movie.
<v Speaker 1>You've got to lay your ground rules. You've got to
<v Speaker 1>lay your history. I get it. But in Kingdom of
<v Speaker 1>the Crystal Skull it happens twice, and both times both
<v Speaker 1>Indie and the character he is speaking to are just
<v Speaker 1>sitting at a table, and it's awful. It grinds the
<v Speaker 1>movie to a halt and it drives me nuts. In
<v Speaker 1>Kingdom the Crystal Skull happens whenever they are sitting, just
<v Speaker 1>after he's been scrubbed for his nuclear waist, sitting at
<v Speaker 1>a table, and he mentioned something about the Air Force
<v Speaker 1>incident in forty seven, which sounds like a better story
<v Speaker 1>to me than what they're talking about already. That's great,
<v Speaker 1>but he sits. The other guy that he's talking to sits,
<v Speaker 1>he explains something that I still don't understand.
<v Speaker 3>Having seen the whole movie.
<v Speaker 1>And then later on he gives exposition to a character
<v Speaker 1>in a diner. In a diner, are you kidding me? What?
<v Speaker 1>You're sitting at a table and nothing is happening except
<v Speaker 1>that you're explaining things that still don't seem to have
<v Speaker 1>a significant impact on the movie. If you're going to
<v Speaker 1>have exposition, it needs to be key to the movie
<v Speaker 1>and it needs to be well explained. And what they
<v Speaker 1>did in Raiders what do they do. They have him
<v Speaker 1>with a blackboard and chalk and he's drawn the lines
<v Speaker 1>from the staff of Raw and he's opening up the
<v Speaker 1>giant book that has the pictures of the lightning coming
<v Speaker 1>out of the Arc of the Covenant. It's beautifully done when.
<v Speaker 3>They do it.
<v Speaker 1>In the Last Crusade, they're in the library looking around
<v Speaker 1>for the clue. Right, X never marks the spot, except
<v Speaker 1>that it does in this circumstance. And you've got this
<v Speaker 1>great exposition as things are happening. You can't sit and
<v Speaker 1>stare at another character and give exposition and have it
<v Speaker 1>be a proper Indiana Jones sequel. I'm off my soapbox,
<v Speaker 1>you guys.
<v Speaker 3>No, you're you're preaching the choir there, because there's more
<v Speaker 3>of that happening in Crystal Skull, where at least they're
<v Speaker 3>in the gravesite and they're kind of walking and talking
<v Speaker 3>and you're in on the adventure.
<v Speaker 1>You know.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I agree with you. Sitting around uh and just
<v Speaker 3>having a milkshake and talking about it does not work,
<v Speaker 3>not at all.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>In fact, I think in Last Crusade he's explaining what's
<v Speaker 2>going on to Elsa while they're you know, the Arc
<v Speaker 2>of the Covenant's written on the wall and they've got
<v Speaker 2>rats all around, you got petroleum everywhere, And yeah, the
<v Speaker 2>exposition happens while you are discovering things with Indiana Jones.
<v Speaker 3>Now the Last Crusade. That's a good moment where two
<v Speaker 3>people are sitting at a table and having a great
<v Speaker 3>conversation and it's meaningful to the movie. And I'm talking
<v Speaker 3>about when they're when they're on the blimp and they're
<v Speaker 3>kind of they're kind of hashing out their their family issues, huh,
<v Speaker 3>and having a little bit of fun with it too,
<v Speaker 3>where he's like, you know, she's old enough to be
<v Speaker 3>your ordered to be your grandfather, you know, and you know,
<v Speaker 3>and then you know it starts to get serious for
<v Speaker 3>a second. And then and then Henry Jones Senior I'm
<v Speaker 3>talking about like he gets excited, He like you know,
<v Speaker 3>moves his chair of his saying, look we're this is
<v Speaker 3>how close we are and sharing his diary and like
<v Speaker 3>it's a great father son moment. That that's a good
<v Speaker 3>moment where you can have exposition with just two people
<v Speaker 3>sitting there talking. But other than that, and the first
<v Speaker 3>scene of Raiders, like you're wasting our time and.
<v Speaker 2>We don't stay there very long.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's it's not wrong if they sit at a table.
<v Speaker 1>I mean you have Bellock and Indy sitting at a
<v Speaker 1>table on the very first episode, and it's awesome. You
<v Speaker 1>want to talk to God? Yeah, because it's emotional, it's
<v Speaker 1>charged up. It's not let me explain a historical story
<v Speaker 1>to you. That's terrible.
<v Speaker 2>Raiders is a perfect movie. This is I think it's
<v Speaker 2>unfair to compare anything to Raiders because everything they do
<v Speaker 2>is so well executed. The whole story just keeps moving,
<v Speaker 2>keeps me and keeps moving. Commandment number nine nine, thou
<v Speaker 2>shalt remember that Indiana Jones is a lone wolf. And
<v Speaker 2>I told Jeff you and I were talking about this.
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, this is my biggest problem with a certain
<v Speaker 2>movie that I'm trying to remain spoiler. Indiana Jones doesn't
<v Speaker 2>need your freaking help. If some of his friends want
<v Speaker 2>to hang around and help a little bit, that's okay,
<v Speaker 2>But he's going after the arc. He literally takes on
<v Speaker 2>the entire Nazi army pretty much by himself, with a
<v Speaker 2>little bit of help from Salah and a little bit
<v Speaker 2>of help from Marion in the first movie. In the
<v Speaker 2>second movie, he has to. I mean, Willie is an
<v Speaker 2>obstacle the entire time, Shorty, she is around to throw
<v Speaker 2>him his whip every once in a while. You're getting
<v Speaker 2>ready to defend Willie Scott for us.
<v Speaker 3>That's that's a bold that's a bold statement. I won't
<v Speaker 3>defend her, but I will say she does technically save
<v Speaker 3>their lives at least once.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and then she almost gets them killed immediately after that.
<v Speaker 3>You're right, yeah, but no, I get what you're saying though,
<v Speaker 3>Like you know, they're along, you know her in short round,
<v Speaker 3>they're along for the ride and there they help when
<v Speaker 3>they when they can't help.
<v Speaker 2>Maybe maybe lone Wolf is a bit strong. He does
<v Speaker 2>need his friends, but he's not taking a back seat
<v Speaker 2>to anyone.
<v Speaker 1>He's first, little second fiddle he got I can go
<v Speaker 1>along with. I'm like, I'm thinking a lot of situations
<v Speaker 1>where it was important to have those other characters there.
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, he can never be second fiddle.
<v Speaker 2>He's the guy who sees the X on the on
<v Speaker 2>the floor. Now then the important thing too to remember
<v Speaker 2>with Indiana Jones, you have the Superman and the Clark
<v Speaker 2>Kent here. Okay, you have the Professor Jones who wears
<v Speaker 2>glasses and a and a bow tie. And then you've
<v Speaker 2>got the bare knuckled fedora wearing leather jacket Indiana Jones.
<v Speaker 2>And there's a distinct break between those two versions of
<v Speaker 2>himself that may or may not show up in the
<v Speaker 2>fifth movie.
<v Speaker 3>I don't think he shows up at all. And to
<v Speaker 3>D's point, yes, he can't be second Fiddle, but he's
<v Speaker 3>sure as heck can't be the roadie for the second Fiddle.
<v Speaker 3>And there's there's a lot of moments in the third
<v Speaker 3>one where I feel like he's maybe he's not even
<v Speaker 3>the sidekick. He's he's in the back seat. You know,
<v Speaker 3>he's not even riding shotgun. I have one thought though, Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>but you know about about him like the lone wolf behavior,
<v Speaker 3>because I know Jason, when we talk to you, you know,
<v Speaker 3>you were saying, yeah, he's you prefer to be more
<v Speaker 3>of a bond. Let's think about this though. I think
<v Speaker 3>part of the reason that he needs to always be
<v Speaker 3>on his own at the end of the day, he
<v Speaker 3>needs to be on his own because these movies always
<v Speaker 3>see him betrayed. He's never finding that family unit or
<v Speaker 3>that that person has settled down with because he he's
<v Speaker 3>you know, he's betrayed every time. You know, Raiders opens
<v Speaker 3>and closes with Indie getting betrayed. Soapedo double crosses him
<v Speaker 3>with the in the Hoovito's Cave or whatever. Yeah, exactly, Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>the US government promises, Yeah, the museum gets the arc
<v Speaker 3>and you guys can study it, and then it gets
<v Speaker 3>put away, so that uhh, who can look at it?
<v Speaker 4>D hop Man, top man, top yeah man, Yeah, yeah,
<v Speaker 4>but but Temple of Doom lu Chi double crosses him
<v Speaker 4>on the deal right right to open the movie, Doctor
<v Speaker 4>Elsa Snyder double crosses him.
<v Speaker 3>Mac Mac double cross he macks a double agent, triple
<v Speaker 3>at whatever. I know, I've said my piece about Mac,
<v Speaker 3>but he betrays him and even in the new one,
<v Speaker 3>and again it's not it's not spoiler because you if
<v Speaker 3>you saw the trailer, you know, Helena Shaw double crosses
<v Speaker 3>him and you know, locks him in with with the
<v Speaker 3>rogue Cia Nazis that are about to kill him, and
<v Speaker 3>she's like, sorry, yeah, he's always getting betrayed. Who can he.
<v Speaker 1>Count on himself?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's good, Jeff, that's good. By the way, does
<v Speaker 2>anybody have a problem with him Marion Marion marrying Marian.
<v Speaker 1>If they had done it right, I wouldn't have a
<v Speaker 1>problem with it. Okay.
<v Speaker 3>I feel like the best ending for this, for this
<v Speaker 3>character is the last Crusade galloping off in the sunset.
<v Speaker 3>I don't think we could have got better. I think
<v Speaker 3>if you're going to even try and get close, you're
<v Speaker 3>not going to hit a bulls eye, but you might
<v Speaker 3>hit the board. With him marrying Marian.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean James Bond got married. Yeah, I realized.
<v Speaker 1>I mean, spoiler alert, she dies. But I think that
<v Speaker 1>they could have done something as effective with Marian for sure.
<v Speaker 3>The thing about Marion, think about where we're in introduced
<v Speaker 3>to her. This is a woman that can clearly hold
<v Speaker 3>her own and take care of herself. She has never
<v Speaker 3>been a damsel distress. Even when she was a damsel distress,
<v Speaker 3>you know, it's.
<v Speaker 1>The perfect soil for him.
<v Speaker 2>She was a child. Yes, it was wrong, and you
<v Speaker 2>know it.
<v Speaker 3>She come on, she knew what she was doing. Now,
<v Speaker 3>I would have been okay with Marion still going her
<v Speaker 3>separate ways and doing you know, following in Abner's work
<v Speaker 3>and getting in her own adventures. You know, because she
<v Speaker 3>was a strong She's a strong enough character to do that.
<v Speaker 3>Our tenth and Final Commandment ten honor thy composer. So
<v Speaker 3>let's let's talk about this. There are several people that
<v Speaker 3>have been key to the success of these movies. You
<v Speaker 3>gotta have Lucas, you gotta have Spielberg, that's the brain trust.
<v Speaker 3>You have to have Harrison Ford may or may not
<v Speaker 3>depending on how we look at it in the next
<v Speaker 3>ten years. The fourth guy on that list that you
<v Speaker 3>have to have is John Williams and his iconic school
<v Speaker 3>or his beautiful score. Granted, we know this might be
<v Speaker 3>the last score, the Dialadestiny might be the last score
<v Speaker 3>that John Williams does. You know, I think he's planning
<v Speaker 3>on doing a little bit of limited touring. We might
<v Speaker 3>not get another soundtrack from this guy. In my mind,
<v Speaker 3>he's the greatest of all time. Anyone that has to
<v Speaker 3>follow in his footsteps. You got to come correct and
<v Speaker 3>you got to hit those beats.
<v Speaker 2>Do you think he did a good job in Dialodestiny.
<v Speaker 3>You know, Dave and I talked about this on our
<v Speaker 3>back to the box Office review, and I felt guilty
<v Speaker 3>for saying it was lazy, because at the same time,
<v Speaker 3>you know, a bad John Williams score is a great
<v Speaker 3>film score. You know, at the end of the day,
<v Speaker 3>I feel like he maybe he phoned it in a
<v Speaker 3>little bit. Some of the beats that I feel are
<v Speaker 3>necessary we're missing, whether we're talking dialadestiny or we're talking
<v Speaker 3>ten years down the road. When someone does a new theme,
<v Speaker 3>there's certain things that have to be there. The iconic march,
<v Speaker 3>right the Raiders, what's known as the Raiders March. After Raiders,
<v Speaker 3>it still showed up in every movie and it then
<v Speaker 3>became what's known as endo credits. We got to have it.
<v Speaker 3>There's two other themes that you have to have as well.
<v Speaker 3>One of them would be the I'll call this one
<v Speaker 3>the one the heart theme, because you know in Raiders
<v Speaker 3>it's called Marion's Theme. R you know, it's that soft,
<v Speaker 3>slowed down version, and we get we get some of
<v Speaker 3>that a little bit with the flirtatious banter with him
<v Speaker 3>and Willie Scott, when Sean Connery takes out the Nazi
<v Speaker 3>plane with the by using the birds and like, you know,
<v Speaker 3>using his umbrella, and Harrison Ford has that he just
<v Speaker 3>has that great look and just you know, and you
<v Speaker 3>had that soft music, yeah, that soft beat. And then lastly,
<v Speaker 3>I would say there's there's always that ominous theme. Maybe
<v Speaker 3>it's ominous, maybe it's a little bit spooky. And that's
<v Speaker 3>when you're just you're maybe kind of giving us a
<v Speaker 3>little bit of exposition on what this mcguffin can really do.
<v Speaker 2>You know, you think about Raiders, and again we're comparing
<v Speaker 2>to a perfect movie. But and he has a theme,
<v Speaker 2>Marion has a theme, the head piece to the staff
<v Speaker 2>of Raw has a theme. The arc has a theme.
<v Speaker 2>And then when they open the Arc, you got maybe
<v Speaker 2>the most terrifying piece of music I've ever heard. My
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, that doesn't even mention whatever they play when
<v Speaker 2>he's chasing down the truck on the horse and getting
<v Speaker 2>thrown through the windshield, all that, all that thing everybody
<v Speaker 2>was hitting on all cylinders for Raiders, and then this one.
<v Speaker 2>I do we hear the march one time? I think
<v Speaker 2>maybe we heard the march one time.
<v Speaker 3>I think we briefly heard it in the opening sequel
<v Speaker 3>opening Yep, you know when he's well, I want to
<v Speaker 3>say anything, but yeah, I think you hear a little
<v Speaker 3>bit of it there, and uh, I definitely remember not
<v Speaker 3>hearing it. At the end, I was like, you know what,
<v Speaker 3>give me my Raiders march? So I know that the
<v Speaker 3>movie's over, and then it gave us a different theme,
<v Speaker 3>and I was like, I looked over David, I'm like, well,
<v Speaker 3>they can't even get the ending right, the final credit
<v Speaker 3>music right? Come on?
<v Speaker 2>You know we talked about it in our when we
<v Speaker 2>covered Raiders. There's two themes. So John Williams came to
<v Speaker 2>Steven Spielberg and said, all right, here's this theme d
<v Speaker 2>D D and then there's this other theme dun da
<v Speaker 2>du and Spielberg's like, love them both, put them together.
<v Speaker 3>Yep, I want both of them.
<v Speaker 2>The composer is so important to these movies.
<v Speaker 3>Think about some of your other iconic franchises. This is
<v Speaker 3>a rarity where you have the director and the star
<v Speaker 3>and the composer always coming back together again. Could you
<v Speaker 3>imagine Last Crusade or Temple of Doom with a different composer.
<v Speaker 3>It would have felt wrong.
<v Speaker 2>Any final thoughts, guys.
<v Speaker 1>You have not convinced me to go see the Dial
<v Speaker 1>of Destiny.
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really want this to be a Dial of
<v Speaker 2>Destiny bash fest. But to do the good you have
<v Speaker 2>to talk about the bad too.
<v Speaker 3>Right, Yeah, well you have to talk about the bad,
<v Speaker 3>which is Crystal Skull, and you have to talk about
<v Speaker 3>the ugly, which is Tylo Destiny, the good, the bad,
<v Speaker 3>And I'll tell you right now, my goal was not
<v Speaker 3>to convince you to go see the new one, live
<v Speaker 3>blissfully with the original trilogy and know that that is
<v Speaker 3>that's it, right there, that's it.
<v Speaker 2>I'm a completionist. I could not not go.
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would have been I would have been perfectly
<v Speaker 1>happy to end the trilogy writing into the Sunset as
<v Speaker 1>it should have been.
<v Speaker 3>And I stand by what I said. My feelings on
<v Speaker 3>Kingdom of the Crystal Skull are documented, but I'm telling
<v Speaker 3>you Dialodestiny is a far worse movie than Kingdom of
<v Speaker 3>the Crystal Skull. That's where I'm at with it.
<v Speaker 1>And how do you feel? Do you feel that it's
<v Speaker 1>worse than the Crystal Skull.
<v Speaker 2>I feel like the movie is better, the story was
<v Speaker 2>better than Crystal Skull. But Crystal Skull left the Indiana
<v Speaker 2>Jones character that I love more intact, and so it's
<v Speaker 2>easier for me to swallow Crystal Skull. So there you go. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>quick question before we go, Jeff, can this franchise be saved?
<v Speaker 3>Yes?
<v Speaker 2>D Can this franchise be saved?
<v Speaker 1>Yes?
<v Speaker 2>Sounds like it's a tough job. We start over in
<v Speaker 2>ten years, twenty years ten.
<v Speaker 1>There have been some really bad James Bond movies, it's
<v Speaker 1>and they managed to bring it back and make some
<v Speaker 1>of the best I've ever seen.
<v Speaker 2>All Right, Well, that's gonna wrap it up for us.
<v Speaker 2>I hope you've enjoyed these ten commandments to make a
<v Speaker 2>proper Indiana Jones movie. Jeff, thanks for joining us.
<v Speaker 3>Man, Hey, I appreciate it. Thank you for giving me
<v Speaker 3>a chance to vent a little bit of frustration after
<v Speaker 3>dial Destiny and talk about what could make this a
<v Speaker 3>great franchise. Again. I appreciate that.
<v Speaker 2>Hey, tell us where we can find you, guys.
<v Speaker 3>You can find us streaming wherever you get your streaming from,
<v Speaker 3>or you can always check us out at www dot
<v Speaker 3>afilm by podcast dot com. You can check out all
<v Speaker 3>of our episodes. The website's been changed up a little bit,
<v Speaker 3>so now you can go to you just want to
<v Speaker 3>look at eighty six stuff, or back to the box
<v Speaker 3>office stuff or film at forty five stuff. We have
<v Speaker 3>narrowed it down for you so now there's like a
<v Speaker 3>it's much more user friendly. You can find exactly what
<v Speaker 3>you're looking for. But other than that, we are on
<v Speaker 3>social media at a film buy. We always happy to talk,
<v Speaker 3>always happy to interact and hear feedback and give thee.
<v Speaker 1>That always find Jeff, thanks for coming over.
<v Speaker 3>Appreciate Dee.
<v Speaker 2>All Right, guys, we will see you down the road.
<v Speaker 2>Follow me, I know the way.
<v Speaker 1>I mean literally. At some point and when we were
<v Speaker 1>watching The Crystal Skull, she was like, you know, you
<v Speaker 1>don't have to keep watching this if you don't want to.
<v Speaker 1>I was like, really, I don't, really, I've been here
<v Speaker 1>for an hour. I can't quit now. I see this
<v Speaker 1>through to the end.