The Craft with Suzee Dunn

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Speaker 1: On the Beck dol Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them? Are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands? Do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best start changing it with the Beck del Cast. Hi, welcome to the Beck Deel Cast. My name is Jamie and this is our podcast about how women are portrayed in movies. Hey, is it good? Usually no, almost never, almost never, But sometimes a movie surprises us and it's like, oh it wasn't it was like only terrible, but like ten okay in its portrayal of women. And then sometimes you're like, I'm tired, I'm tired, I'm tired of this, I'm tired of this happening. I'm tired of this world. Why do we have to have this discussion? But we have to because someone has to, And and then you just spiral are heroes. You're right, Jesus fucking christ Man. What an exhausting time to be alive. Indeed, well, but we're here, I don't know, maybe bring some levity to anyone's life by yeah, sorry, yeah, but we're not supposed to be the bummer podcast. Yeah, we're a fun We're a fun lift up we're fun. We're fun. We're fun, but sometimes we get piste off and you can just had to be okay with it. It's an upsetting world. We're allowed to have our feelings. Yeah, I've been drinking a Mike's heart in days. What's going on? Ship, I know that's what's going on. iBOT Crystally. We bought crystals, Yeah, we did. I bought like eight crystals. Bot. I didn't say anything while we're in the store because I was just like, no, she's into it, She's going for well. I figured crystal. I have a lot of things that need addressed in my life, and I bought a crystal for every issue. I bought crystals yesterday and I was vibrating at a very high level. I walked for a total of three hours. I had a panic attack. But I'm like, I'm just I can't handle the energy of the crystals yet, or maybe I should go back on my bipolar medication. Hard to say. I bought the crystal, feel good about it. Bought Picasso Jasper. I'm about to start writing the Great American novel literally any second, literally an It's on the tip of my tongue. I can't wait to read we're so close. But yes, we bought crystals. Totally fine, we can deal with it. Shout out to all you crystal heads out here. We are become you. Yes, we are among you, and speaking of like crystally we're talking about. But before we even do that, let's introduce our guests. She is the creator of Act Like a Girl, which is a podcast. It's a live show. It's a whole movement. It's a movement. As soon as you're done, Hello, sorry I introduced you right as you were swallowing a gulp of water. Also, I have to say I just got given a bowl, like a pipe that's completely a crystal. Whoa smoking and it gives you mental clarity or something. Yeah, that's like two for one my brain chakras. Yeah, so we're here to talk about the craft. Yes, wait, the craft of screenwriting, the craft spiking of I do have a master's degree in it. I to bring up it. I wanted to open it brought up because you want to know what's exciting. There are still only three degrees between. Oh well, now we're even. Now we're even, I'll give you one. You know the podcast. Yeah, I've never used it. Okay, keep it. Keep it, Dad will finally be proud of me. It'll be great. So one wants to make a dad proud. Honestly, that's so twentieth century right over it. When did you first see this movie? What's your history with this movie? Oh? Man, I mean I feel like I saw this in my teen, like teenage years. I was probably like thirteen or fourteen. I think that's like the right age to see it for the first time. I wish i'd seen it then. Yeah, I was obsessed with it immediately. I mean, it's it's not it is a teen movie structurally, but it's also like not a teen movie. It's pretty scary. Yeah, there's some scary imagery. There's some pretty heavy topics sexual yeah, racism. Yeah. I don't think I saw it until I was later teens or maybe even early twenties. I think I saw it for the first time in college and then Jamie three am last night. Yes, you've never seen it before. I've never seen it, which is weird. It's like a movie that I know if I had seen it at the right time, I would have been because I was really into Witchy Ship when I was a teenager and still kind of now. And and I mean, we just bought crystal. We just bought crystals. Wait, what do you think? Well, I have a lot of thoughts. I loved the first half of the movie. The second half of the movie. I didn't like the second half. I didn't like the weird turn that it took in the second night. But well, we'll get there. But in general, I liked what they were going. I'll do the recap of the craft, the recraft that doesn't make any sense. I loved it, thank you so much. So. It centers on these four girls, Sarah, Nancy, Bonnie, and Rochelle. Sarah's new to town. She just moved to l A from San Francisco, and she's like already kind of practicing witchcraft and magic. And these Sarah hot, all of them. All of them are big. It's it's a it's a very it's a hot move ho. It's a lot of hot, but not really any hot men to speak of. Um, I'm gonna go with Skeet, not his character. Who's Skeete that's his real name? Oh wait, the like a job, Yeah, the the guy that his name is the short term for masturbation, like skee like like Skeet skeet, motherfucker skee goddamn skeet skeep motherfucker ear. Yeah, yeah, he's on Riverdale. This is all wild. I didn't know he's a guy from Riverdale. Well, I guess he's hot. I find he's hotter now really, I think he's hotter. Now I would agree he's hotter. And I didn't think he's hot in the Craft Riverdale. I think his character is deplorable. So maybe that's why. Well, I like that, Like this movie totally harkens us to discuss the male characters that way, like in a way that generally would discuss the female characters, right, Like, it's just like very easy to be like, well he's hot, he's not. Yeah, and then we don't know anything about his character and he's not that he's horrifying, but we'll get yeah, we'll get there. So Sarah's like, hey, you guys seem witchy. I'm kind of witchy. Maybe we should all be friends, and the other three girls are like, yeah, we need a fourth because they have to have earth and fire and everyone of fours, they need a north, south east West. So they sort of bring her into the group, and Sarah is the most talented of the witches, so she's able to introduce him to different spells and like, hey, wait a minute, there's this racist girl, let's make her hair fall out. Wait a minute, there's this boy skeet well, well, Sarah like she's the best witch, but she knows the least and then they like kind of teach her how to harness she's like the least educated. Yeah, and so she just has raw talent, right, but then they sort of mold her and their teacher had to cast the spells and then they yeah, so they like there's different people who they sort of want to cast spells on, either to punish them for being racist. Taylor, all racist people should just go bald, and I'm setting them off the hook right right, because some of them might look nice. Well, it was like spoiled. It was a weird I never even made the connection that made they were turning her into a skinhead because racist sometimes are already involved by choice, because like, this is part of the I wonder if the two white guys who wrote this movie thought that hard about it. I doubt it. I doubt it, but I said, but I like that. But then that's also interesting because even though like, Okay, yeah, that's great that they talk about racism and like show a racist character getting her come up. And but then like they don't even give Rochelle a lot of validity as a character, Like we never see her home life. The only time we see her, she's the only character. She's the only one. Like we just see her front door. That's it. I mean, there's I mean the back half of this movie just and there's no other person of color. Yeah, she is the only one. I think you even see unscreen any which is like for a movie that takes place in Los Angeles, is like craziest thing. But right, So, so she punished these Yeah, and then Skeet is like he spreads this rumor that like he and Sarah head sex even though he didn't. But then Sarah's like, well, I still want him to like me. So she cast a spell and he sort of becomes obsessed with her. Yeah, and then um, Nancy sort of like the head Dorothy Gale in The Terrible Movie, returned to oz. Yes, I still have not seen that her eye. Yes, oh my god. But she wants to sort of invoke the spirit of man. Yeah, they worship a male god, which is kind of upsetting right movie, like like who's inside of you? Anyways? So she like they cast this spell or whatever, do this ritual to have him be inside of Nancy, and then it turns her all evil and then they have this big they sort of duke it out at the end. Finally Sarah triumphs because she's the good witch of the North yea literally, And then is Nancy the witch of the South? Am I saying she's not of the West? Um? But I don't remember who's who? I didn't even I can't either. But I also think that they assigned them the wrong elements in my opinion, thinking that too, because I think that Rachelle is definitely air and Bonnie is definitely earth. And then this is like different than I think most people would think. But I think Sarah is fire and Nancy is water because Nancy is more chaos and fire is like, I don't know, like more controlled and it's all like one thing, whereas water like other things can exist in it and there can be like different kinds of chaos whereas fire is just like all this anyway, I think about these things. I was just wondering, It's like, am I am I a fire Am I a water? Am I Samantha? Am I Charlotte? I don't know. I think you're what's what's your? What signed are you? Is it? What kind of sign is it? I'm a chorus? Well that's earth an Okay, I'm a sign. I'm a fair sign. I guess I'm an ares Leo nice Earth? Well Earth is Sarah was Earth? Right? Think I think that's what they signed her to. Yeah, um yeah she was mother? Yeah yeah, right right right. And it's like, I guess I can see that argument. I don't know, Yeah, I think. Okay, So something I did find funny in this Okay. So the big problem for me with this movie is the first half of it is all about these teenage goth adjacent misfits finding each other bonding. There's a little bit of friction, there's a little bit of click problems, but ultimately it's people in high school finding people that they like and generally doing positive, like or not horrible things. They make a racist go bald. I think that's very cool. You know. Nev Campbell gets healed of her scars and it's confident like in this universe. Now, her doctors being like written up about in medical journals for hearing right and women lifting up women women even though the women in stem in this case had nothing to do with it, women in magic, because she's like making major breakthroughs, right right, I mean, you know, it's about them coming together. And then the second half of the movie they kind of sell out all the momentum made in the first half and just turn these characters against each other in a really brutal way. And and for me, the most frustrating part was, I mean, I guess we're to understand, you know, Nancy gets her wish, which is move inside of her and she basically becomes a god who can read people's thoughts and fly and appear and blah blah blah. But then they basically sell out the characters of Bonnie and Rochelle, who we have started to learn more about and they have been getting to different degrees at least we've gotten looks into their lives and we're sort of understanding where they're coming from and why they want what they want, and then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, but none of that matters anymore. They're just gonna do what Nancy tells them to do. And now they're I was shocked by that choice that they didn't have them be on Sarah's side or didn't even in ass the like that we don't see that change take place. It just happened. Yeah, there's no real build up or arc. Well are we to believe that and his power is sort of corrupting all of them? Or maybe just but then why are they still bitches at the end? You know when they when they go up to Sarah and they're like, hey, we don't have powers anymore? Do you have? Like it was just weird because they all came together as friends and then it's sort of and I thought of that too, of like, oh, maybe they're just being manipulated by Nancy and mentally. But but even after that's no longer a thing, it's like, oh, are we supposed to think that these three were just not good people the whole time? Because I I don't like that there is sort of that implication because come to think of it, I don't think Mom is a bad force. The how he's everything, Yeah, he's every seld and as the witch store lady, I can't remember what her character's name is. I'm pretty sure which store lady, which short lady? She says, like there's evil and good in nature in the world, so like it's really the witch who chooses, so she will. And also like they steal from her in the beginning, which I know I've as a teenager, I stole stuff sometimes, like more like from CVS than like from from a mom. Yeah, from like a locally owned and to her credit, I mean, she doesn't seem super bothered by it, like you know, like that the woman who owns the New Age shop is just like, oh, you're stealing again, and she's like, yeah, I don't have any money. I was like, this is a weird dynamic. Why would you let him keep coming in? But she's so chill, she's in with Manos. She's like whatever, Yeah, it's his life. That's a good point though about this movie starts out is like a depiction of female friendship and you're like, oh, cool, I'm glad they all found each other and even though some of them are you know, like rough around the edges, they found each other and that's nice. And then yeah, by the end, they've pretty much all the three original which is all turned on Sarah, and then they try to kill her, even like I pretend like her dad and stepmom are dad. Yeah, oh my god. That That was the thing that made me laugh, is like they're like, oh man, it was a flight from l A to San Francisco. I'm like, that's like an eight minute flight. How can you get that wrong? She should have known they were lying. At the end, you see your dad and he's like, hey, it's me. I was like, of course you took a two minute flight. What You're fine. I love those parental relationships. I love Sarah and her dad. They're so cute together. Like, I love that she doesn't have daddy issues. Yeah, he's like kind of the only male character that you don't end up absolutely hating. Yeah, and he likely supports her. Like when when that guy shows up when they first get to the house, Yeah, the snake man, Like he like what freaks out on him? Yeah, that was so fucking weird. He like freaks out on him, you know, rather than like, I don't know, victim blaming or something. Right. And I also love Nancy and her mom's relationship, which I do think also gets spoiled by the second half because it's like they have so I mean, like, yeah, they're a mess, but like they're each other's mess. I didn't. I don't know, I didn't like Nancy. It's interesting because again it's like the movie does a lot of work in the front half to develop Nancy's character. Is like, yes, she is jealous of Sarah, which is like not atypical for teenage girl, and so I was like, okay, she's like, you know, she's tough, but like she you know, she doesn't seem like a bad person. And then they give us her backstory, which is like she has a brutal home life, like her mom and her stepdad I guess are are alcoholics who are screaming at her from the second and her mom is the first an yell at her um. And so it's like, okay, she has a really really really hard home life. And then sort of sells that out when they're just like, okay, now she's an all powerful being and she's a she's an evil bitch, and at the end she's punished by being in in a mental asylum and you know, in a kind of needlessly long montage of her, you know, I was like, okay, we get it cut, Yeah, just like what did it were? They like, no, we need more, like but either way, I was just like man like it. I don't I don't get why this movie went the way it did, because it just sacrificed all the really good character development they were doing to just turn girls against each other for the sake of it. I felt like, I don't know if I mean, I have conflicting feelings about it, the same way I do for like Heathers and Mean Girls, where it's like a depiction of female friendship which is like always to me kind of just defaults is like, oh cool, I'm glad that there's a movie about this, right, And then they're often shown as like, at least some of them are like really awful to each other to the point where they're killing each other or trying to kill each other or just like bullying each other. So there's that that I'm like, okay, well, yeah, like you said, towards the second half and towards the end, the three original Girls too, of the characters are basically they're just like well, whenever, like they just totally blow them off. I don't know, yeah, yeah, they're just like, well everything. I hope you enjoyed the first half of them, because now they're just going to be around. It's also so interesting, like their hair all just gets so much better as they are more power and I also love that. Oh I can't even remember why she said this, but my favorite line in the whole movie was when Rochelle is like, and I told her your white honeys just deal with that. Oh yeah, oh yeah. They're like, what did Nancy wish for her? She's like, I don't know. She wished to not be white trash anymore. It was like, and I told her, you're what there? But I mean Nancy. I guess I didn't really like the takeaway I got from Nancy and her mom because even after we see the stepfather have a witch induced heart attack and he dies and then they get money, that's all like great, great, great, love to see a villain his mail died in front of me. That scene in the trailer too, when they're talking with the guy, that's like, yeah, all the different Like the art department must have had so much fun creating that scene because there's like different wallpaper on each wall of the trailer, and like scenes are just like sitting and smoking stick so good. I love it, and look like she's crying but then she's laughing. It's so good. Yeah. Um, And so that was all great, But then I feel like where you sort of leave off with Nancy and her mom as they moved to this really nice apartment, which you're just like a hundred but it was so then they moved into this amazing apartment in l A. But the jukebox that only plays Connie Bradley Bailey something right, Conny Connie Walker, my favorite France frand and my favorite that's a feminist. Um. But then with I'm pretty sure the last time we see Nancy's mom, you can tell you the door in her face, right, because her mom is still kind of a disaster alcoholic who's not thinking about her daughter. And so it's like, well, you know, that's not what's gonna make Nancy happy. Even though that improves her situation by not having a piece of ship step step dad anymore and having a better living situation, her mom's still an alcoholic and doesn't know how to take care of her kids. And that is like kind of devastating and and sad and hard to see. Um, and also just made me feel worse when they turned Nancy into a total evil demon because I was just like she you like, I feel like if you're gonna do that to a character, if you're going to if you know at the beginning you're going to take this character and turn them completely irredeemably evil, but then don't give them a very sympathetic backstory that like possibly a girl seeing that movie could relate, you know, because so many I mean, you know, it's not uncommon to have an alcoholic parent, and so it's just weird to see that. There's also a little moment where like her stepdad, she's like wearing a robe and he's like you could almost see through it, and he like kind of yanks on a robe and it's like weirdly sexual. And another thing that I struggled with in this movie is that a lot of the spells that they because each of the four girls has sort of like their own character arc. They're thing that they're trying to achieve, and at least two of them are like either very superficial or selfish. Where Bonnie is trying to remove the scars so that she can be beautiful on the outside as well as and and then as soon as that happens, she turns like ship on the inside. She's like but also when they were just like when Sarah was giving her a hard time in the car. I don't know. And I say this as a teenager that wore a back brace, Like when when Sarah turned to Bonnie and was like, ever since you started looking at like a normal girl, you've become a real bit or like that was summarized, and I was like, you know what, give Bonnie like a couple of months to be a little bit and be like I'm cute now. I was like, man, because getting out of a physical prison is exciting, and give her a couple of months. I don't know. I was like getting her dress sexy and walk around. Yeah, like let for a narrative of a movie. It was a little bit of a bummer to like see Bonnie like so like her hair like so greasy and in her face and just like completely covered up because of this scar, you know. And then like the minutes off she's like sexy nev Campbell. All of a sudden she starts out very ali sheety in the breakfast club. Yes, well, but I think almost like covering her face with her hair to be like, oh, please don't know this. It's Neuf Cambell and she's very hot because she's hot at the beginning of the movie too, but it's that crazy Hollywood thing where they're just like, we're just going to gaslight you into thinking she's not not because she looks a little bit she's gonna have a middle part. And well between that her like her wanting to remove her scars and Sarah, who's the main character that we're most supposed to identify with and root for, her thing is that she wants this boy to like her even after he spread these like vicious rumors about her. And so I want to go through that arc really quick. Skeets Character arcs se day out on every episode of the Backtel Cast Skeets Character Arc. So, okay, So the first thing you see is like him talking to Sarah and he's like, oh, the old girls over there, the bitches of east Wick and the like slut shames Nancy and like we're like, oh, I don't know, really, it's just like she's a slut. Yeah, yeah, I know how he feels. So he's like talking them and then they go on a date. He and Sarah. They're like flirting. He's like, oh, your head is good good for kissing? Can I? He asks Permis I know, I know not to do I know, and then and I was like feminist Nikon Skeet asks permission to kill ri He I was like, wow, this never we never said. I literally said out loud less and I was like, God, damn it, that's so sexy. And then he sucks it all up, which is weird because he well, I mean she and she says no and he's like oh, and then she's like, are you mad and he says no, and then you're like and then the scene cuts to the next day, You're like, well they do kiss? They did? Well, yeah they did, because but then totally adds validity to a story because his friends see them making out and then they're leaving, so that's like key that, like they do kiss, because then everybody's like, well we saw them making out comes afterwards, right, because then he asks her to go home right him, and she says no, and he's seen he's like saying he's okay with it, But the subtext of his tone and stuff like that is he's annoyed and piste off that he will that she won't go home with him, So then he spreads the rumor that they slept together, and then she calls him out on it. She's like, you're a lying sack of shit. Fuck you, and he's like really rude to her, and then she's like, oh, I better cast a spell to make him like me. Even he also proved himself as a piece of ship. He also says like out like he like yells so that everyone hears, just like I don't want to date you again or whatever, like just to add even more relity to a shitty, shitty story and its stupid pants. There is terrible pants in this movie pants. So by the way, this movie, I just want to say that this movie completely was passing the backdel test until minute thirteen, which I love was really good. That never happens and that has to happen one time. And at minute thirteen they talk about how much they don't like the guys. That's like the first that that was. Another part I liked about the front half of this movie is that at the beginning, when I mean, granted, do Nancy, Bonnie and Rochelle basically bully Sarah into being their friend. Yes? Is that clicky and problematic? Yes, but they're just come with us. They're like, you're our friend now, which kind of happens in a more fun way and mean girls. But but it's I mean, that's high school, I guess, but you know, worth saying. But they sort of look out for each other a little bit, where Nancy very in no uncertain terms, says, look out for Skeet. He's a predator. He'll hit on anyone with hits. Trust me, he spreads disease right right, except Bonnie because she still has a middle part for like twenty more minutes and then she'll start fucking anyone she wants. But and then when that happens and Sarah finds out the hard way, that's Skeets an asshole. Nancy sort of gloats a little bit, but ultimately doesn't shame where for it doesn't doubt her story and why did I tell you? And that is sort of what convinces Sarah, Okay, I'll be friends with these girls because they warned me and I wanted to learn anyways, which seems like a very teenage girl move. And then you know, now I have a reason to trust them. And so that was I was like, that's a you know, pretty solid friendship bonding moment, and I liked that. It was like one of My favorite parts of them coming together Light as a feather stuff is a board scene. Amazing, I'm so good. I'm obsessed that scene because it's it's like, it's the best and you and they started doing like the like mid to late nineties almost pretty matrix e kind of technology where you see the three sixties shot like we just want to prove that, you know, there's not some weird things. She's laying on a green block, but I like it looks so real, it's exciting. It's man, Yeah, that was cool. I left that scene. Yeah. So then where skeets are Lands is that he gets spell cast on him, he falls in love with her and starts stalking her. Then this rise to rape Sarah. But that but by then it's the second half of the movie where where it seems like all the harmless slash very little harm done they do in the first half that's fun to watch suddenly comes back on them threefold in the second half, and I feel like punishes female characters unnecessarily everything post the invoking in summoning of Yeah, that's when things take a turn. So then he tries to rape her, she runs away, and then Nancy's like, we're going to get revenge on this guy. So she goes and and like puts a lot of unwanted sexual contact on him and then turns into s and has sex name and that could probably be considered rape, Like did they have sex sex? Though? I mean, it seems like it's like they were to write and that. But that's another like selling out of a character they just didn't like. That didn't make sense to me other than once Nancy had momented power, like she just wanted to use it to cause chaos, to hurt anybody, like and well, I mean, I don't know because at first, when she said I'm going to go get revenge on him, I was like, all right, this seems like something this character would do because she's piste off and wants to take care of it, probably in a chaotic way, but then ends up having totally selfish motives. That's like, I don't I don't really believe that. The scene ends with him getting magic to death out of a window, like pushed by magic out of a window. But he died. I think he died. Does he did die? Okay? I was when I couldn't remember, could just start there, just kill him? I mean honestly that his death scene didn't. The sex scene that precedes it is very problematic and confusing and just like, oh, what are the ethics of this? But his death scene I really liked. That's the problem is that she like quite literally asked for it, you know what I'm saying, Like our a big issue was talking about rape culture as well, she was asking for it, like she quite literally, Yeah, she like literally asked for him to fall head over heels in love with her, not to rape her. Obviously, No, no, what I'm saying. And that's that's why it's And that spell was so fun at first two or it's just like he was just like I want to carry your books. Why can't I stop thinking about you? I'm stupid. I'm stupid. I'm stupid. And it's like, great, this checks out, he's stupid. Backfires, Yeah, and then the whole threefold thing comes in and just every repercussion of the threefold thing I just just didn't work for me at all. Like there's no world in which because Sarah cast a goofy spell in an already misguided attempt to make an asshole like her, there's no way that she deserved that come up and of being a sat no. And Rochelle's arc of at the end when you know she's doing a bad thing and she's kind of mindlessly following Nancy for reasons that I didn't understand. She and Bonnie look in the mirror and Bonnie has scars, and then and then Rachelle's somehow going bald because she retaliated against a racist, which is like, no, she that was allowed. That was allowed. I just I don't know every racist should go bald, like the should fly out of a wind get thrown out of the window. Man. I really did like Skeet's death scene. It was what did you say? She said, You're sorry, She's like shaking, and then he just like you know, explodes. But I agree with Caitlin that it like totally negates the validity of it all by then raping him before doing that. It's such a bummer that his whole arc plays out, didn't say way, especially because it starts out with him asking for consent to kiss her like don't like don't and that's shy is under a spell. Yeah, So if you're going to set up that type of behavior, then don't make that character actually end up being a gross because that's like the major that we should so many characters in this movie a troubled but possibly not irredeemable character, and then at the end they're just totally like nope. And I remember like rewatching this movie when I was becoming more feminism aware, you know, and thinking to myself, like, I kept hoping because I think I kind of forgot plat points, and I kept hoping that she would like be wanting him to follow so how to reveals in love with her, to like then teach him a proper left, like a good lesson. But then it just really was because she just wanted him to like her, and I was like, damn it. And almost immediately once he starts to like her, she's over it. She's just like, oh, well, well, it goes back to my point of like two of the like desires of the girls are like I want to be hotter and I want a boy to like me. And it's like, you, I guess you could argue, that's sure, that's what they're they're teenagers, that's what teenagers. But I would counter argue that we're socialized to think that that's all teenage girls are capable of or should care about or do care about, which one of them wishes that racism would no longer exist, and that's good really, like Rochelle kills it in the wish department. Everyone else does kind of also like kind of feels bad about it too, which is sad, like she should just be like, yeah, suck you, you're bald to deal with it, you know. But I think that that's interesting too, which again is why it's such a bummer in the end when she's just like a crazy bitch too, yeah, I mean, and and really like, yeah, selling out developed female character to be a crazy bitch is just such a move. Also a small character for Sarah Um she's sort of Disney princessed a little bit by no mom. She has mom, and there's sort of this the specter of her mom is sort of being you know the whole time. I totally about that, but only because of you, because of what you bring up always on back Toel cast I was like, oh, yeah, we're changing lives, we're here, we're hero But but that occurred and then I don't know, I mean, I wasn't dissatisfied with how that was brought back at the end with the name of the witch at the Witch Store is Lerio, which is a Spanish word for lily um. But at the end when Sarah almost sort of seeks out Lerio as like a maternal figure of like, here's a woman who knows something I don't and I need help and I'm scared. Mom, it goes goes to Leria and Lerio is you know, it adds in and she really is kind of like the witch ex Makina at the correct moment in the movie, right, Oh, she has all the information and turns old Sarah will be fine no matter what, and you know, and then we get to see that weird climactic scene but she says like whatever, she's like and your mother was a witch? Did you know that? And Sara was like no, and she said, well she was. You're like, well that's great, don't she know she's the witch at she does everything? She does it all? Yeah, that was that was a weird what did she do? That was helpful in that scene? Genuine question because doesn't it just end with like the shop blowing up and then that's it. But then it doesn't like it because because it looks like it's exploding and us like it's it's Nancy. So she runs away because she's still being tormented by Nancy. Yeah, I mean that character the Witch Story lady doesn't really do anything except maybe give her the confidence later on to realize, hey, I can invoke. It was nice to see a maternal moment for Sarah. Maybe that was like supposed to just be like, oh, she gives her a strength or something. Oh I did like that. Sarah repeatedly tries to not kill Nancy, which after a certain amount of misdeeds, would have been legit, you know, And I think a lot of movies would have just made that easier move, but is repeatedly trying to make counter spells to be like I don't want Nancy to hurt anyone else, and I don't want her to hurt herself. So you're just like, well, that's a good look it out. And also I don't know if I would have had that sort of frustraint, I'd be like, get rid of her. Why is she so mean now? But she just why It makes no sense to me that, like, if that's her character, she wants goodwill to what everyone, and like she's looking out for people, why then does she choose to make this boy like her as her like mainly story. Maybe she learned from that and learned even that choice though, Like it's why if he had wronged her, why didn't she cast a spell to make his dick tiny fall off or stop working or something, yeah, like or just a counter about yeah something something. But yeah, it was just a weird choice that if this had been written and directed by women, I feel like I was also very sad when all the sharks washed up on the Yeah, what a weird I forgot about that. That was like, you're making me feel bad for sharks. I like, that's head. There's just a million of them, and she's like their gifts, Like, what fucked up? Nancy? That's that's pretty much exactly where the movie lost me, because from that scene on, it's just like, well, I hope you enjoyed the first part, no sense, Like when they because they do the sands right, and like all the glass things explode and all the animals go out and whatever, and then Nev Campbell is like sitting on the rock watching Rochelle's character is taking a beautiful nap, and then Nancy is walking across the water and it's like what happened happened. Oh, here's another. Because there's not a lot of male characters in this movie, which amazing, most of them end up dead by the end, and the remaining ones the one character. I don't know why, I was like harping on this in my head. I'm like, man, it's crazy that that character wasn't a perfect the gym teacher, the swim coach. Oh yeah, where there is the moment where like he definitely like when Laura Lily or what is her name, Laura, Laura, which is which is the popular girl when she like, you know, when she takes off her cap and her hair is falling out, and then he like it's literally like he's like, oh, she's not hot anymore, so I won't pay attention to her. Let me look over here. And then he sees her do like the perfect dive, and it's it's like, now he pays attention to the girl, the only girl of color in the whole fucking field. I guess I didn't see it that way because he scolded Laura once before where Laura was making fun. But I don't think you did enough in my opinion. Well, he's also a character who's on screen for like eleven seconds in the whole movie. I think I was. I was lightly impressed by him. But yeah, I mean between um, Nancy's gross stepdad who has a heart attack and dies, Skeet who dies, and the snake man at the beginning it was run over by a car. Yeah, it's like half the men because the other The only other male characters with speaking roles in the movie are Chris's friends. Who is that tiny friend? He's okay, I was like, I know who that guy is, who's that tiny? In Clueless? He plays Murphy's uh, And then I don't even know the other dude. One of them is Mint and one of them is Trey. I think I don't even know which ones which they are, which is great, Yeah, right, exactly, like I don't know what these characters are the same, the represent the same too. Yeah. Yeah. He plays Bernie Murphy's love interest in Clueless. Yea, So I would argue that of the both male and female characters in this movie, of the women who aren't portrayed all that well, neither any of the men. Like all the men except for like Sarah's dad, who hardly has screen time and it's kind of awesome. He is such a good dad. And then when she there's like a scene where she's like laying a boundary. She's like, don't touch me, go away, and he's like, okay, yeah he does, like, oh man, that definitely happened. And when my dad at some point he just like sunk off. Yeah, he was like, well, the teenage girls are confusing. And then when he's like dropping because you know, clearly we established that, they look at her wrists and they're like, oh, you cut it the right way, So we clearly established that, like probably part of why they left San Francisco is because she tried to commit suicide. Decidit right. And then when he's dropping her off at school, he's like, you know, you don't have to go right away, like we can, you know, settle in. You can take some time off. And that's another positive part of their friendship I thought, is that she's not shamed or pushed to be asked questions about that, where Nancy's just like punk rock right, and then like, okay, we accept you. You're a friend. And I was like, man, cool, okay, cool, but I don't know that. Man. Another fun moment in the half of the movie that I liked Yeah. Does anyone have any final thoughts about the movie? Just that this was written and directed by white guys obviously in case you couldn't have assumed that off the fact that it's a movie that was released. Yeah, I mean, I think it's just exciting that it. They don't really talk about boys that they like, really true, there are none to like. Yeah, and so I think that that's an exciting part of it. But yeah, I think it's just a bummer that it. But they're redoing it, right, aren't they. I heard that that they're what they're thinking about redoing it, which I'm like, let's cast Susie Dennis Sarah and let's have it be written by a woman interacted by a woman. Oh yeah, the Craft reboot is right, actually a sequel. Oh that's well, that's cool. Or just stop rebooting things and write another movie about witchy teenagers. It's true, speaking of characters talking to each other about things, this movie definitely does pass the backdel test. It basically passes immediately. I mean they're not talking to each other, but they're like doing a seance and it's three Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like I mean this in terms of passing the test. A million times as that's it's almost like the opposite of the test. Like the boys are the characters that are like obsessed with the girls and are like only ever talking about girls, and men rarely talk to each other. There's only a few scenes where there's like two men talking to and they're talking about usually about how they super love a girl or how do they super think she fucking sucks blah blah. But they're all punished, so that's important. Yeah, I mean most of the time they're talking about spells in magic and like all they like what their inner conflex with each other are. Like, this movie very much goes along with the theme of the more a movie he passes the Bechdel test, the more it tends to be financially successful. Budget of this movie fifteen million, box office fifty six million. All right, so there you go. Maybe right, a female even if you kind of sunk up the second half, still right, right, female characters. Yeah, let's write the movie on our nipple scale, um zero to five nipples based on its portrayal of women who this is This is a tricky one. This is tricky because it's doing a lot of things right. It's a female centered movie about female friendships. At least they're friends for the first part of it until that all goes to ship. But well, it is very upsetting to me that the male character who asks permission to kiss a girl, because at least half of the movies we talk about there's a surprise kiss and yeah, and it's like whoa or like yeah. So I was like, oh, he's going to be because I couldn't remember much about this movie. So when I was rewatching it, I was like, Wow, he is he a good guy? Are we supposed to like him? I like him right now? And then every story beat after that it's like, oh no, he's a nightmare person. So yeah, there's the female friendships, and for the most part at the beginning, they're uplifting each other and they're supporting each other. And the movie isn't specifically, there's not about the goal. Isn't there trying to win over a man's love or anything like that. They're basically just trying to get better at witchcraft and the women in magic. Women in Magic, although it is like, okay, is a man to keep using the heat pronoun So it's like, all right, why couldn't it be like a goddess, especially because they're basically describing Mother Nature. I'm like, why is he? Especially when they have Sarah then say Mother Earth? Like why wouldn't if they're putting that pinnacle thing and they have her say that last? You know? So I think it had a lot of potential, but the movie, especially by the end, whenever all the girls have basically turned on each other and it's not, you know, this feminist masterpiece that we're all hoping for anymore. I'm gonna give it, I guess like two and a half snipples. I almost said stars, but ye I know, but stars are five pointed things, which is like a very witchy thing. The pentagram? Is that what it's called? I think? So let me can sell my crystals and oh my gosh, I brought my crystals still my neckpack. Well wait, I have to see them. Okay, okay, right now, let me see smr rattle them. Oh my god, wait where did you guys go to get these? Intuition? Yeah, I work that's over here. Fun. Yeah, So I am going to give it. I'll give it three. Maybe i'd give it to that half. It's a bummer because all the characters have so much agency there, with the exception of I wish we had seen Rochelle's home life. I think it's really bizarre that the only person to come are in the whole movie doesn't have a home life. So dumb. But I mean, even excluding that, we're given a background for all these female characters and then they turn out to be crazy. They turn out to be what, Like, there's just the second half of this movie. It was a big disappointment. But in the first half of the movie we see so much more of fully developed female character than when we would see in almost any other movie, So it's hard. Nancy is kind of one of the bigger bummers for me because it's just like she's the child of an alcoholic and then ends up in a mental asylum. Like that is not a good message. It's bad we don't find out what happens to her mom or whatever. Yeah, it was I really enjoyed the first half of this movie. If you have and to fall asleep in the middle, don't rewind it, like you probably saw the fun part. I'll give it two and a half nipples. I'll give one to Rochelle, I'll give one and Nancy, and then I'll give half a nippy to the gym teacher who didn't bother me. Well, yeah, I didn't give my nipples away. Um, there aren't any cats in this movie, so I don't know which is weird. There's a million given to those discorpions, nipples, spiders, Spiders have eight legs. This has been spider facts with Caitlin, just like how cats have eight nipples. I wish this movie was about four witches who like people wronged them in like that they were racist toward them or that they were like assaulting them and they're like, I'm going to get revenge and then they get revenge and then the world's a better place. That's what this movie should be about. I don't know why, all right it alrite that movie anyway? Would you like to write the movie? Yeah? I mean I think you guys are spot on with two and a half. Like I think that there are so many things that it it did well and then it like all of a sudden just like flipped and did it bad like and then you know again like this stuff with Rochelle, Like, yeah, I think that it was really strong and cool show that black girls do deal with white girls being racist to them in high school. But then they don't show her home life, and they like only make her like the two D character of the four other girls that they kind of make three. I feel like she has lines, yeah, I think, and they don't have anybody else of color to like back her up, and then they like give the girl a family to give more than a front door exactly. Yeah, so yeah, I think two and a half nipples is a good rating. Who gets your nips? Oh man? Okay, well yeah, definitely. I think Rochelle gets one of them for sure. I think the like store owner definitely gets one, which x Mankina. And then also I think that probably Sarah's stepmom could get that happ nipple because I mean she's not really in the movie, but she like clearly is very supportive of them and like she uprooted her life because of what happened with Sarah and she gets on that eight minute flight. I feel like it's like a good, healthy family relationship, yea, even though I mean there's a lot of speculating. Yeah, yeah, it's but you know, that's what you have to do with most movies to fill in the blanks. So I wonder what this female character must be like, well, a positively depiction of the stepmom. It's pretty yeah, yeah, because I feel like there's so many like times in real life and in in movies and stories where like, yeah, the step mom is like horrible and like wouldn't even let the dad like have that relationship with that supports the Disney Trump a little bit. That's nice. Yeah. Well, Susie, thanks so much for being here, guys, thanks for having me. Where can people follow you online? Well, you guys can check out Act Like a Girl. As we said before, are all the handles for socials for that are at Act Like a Girl TV, and then my personal handle is Underscore Boss, which amazing. Yeah cool, cool cool. You can follow the Betel cast on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, our website, iTunes, rate It Reviews, Spotify. Sure we're not stopping your stitcher, dot com I think, or maybe it's an app. I think it's an app. Okay. Probably has a website still though probably if you type you probably won't be poored. Probably a website where you can maybe better podcast and also Earth, Fire, Wind, and Water. Which one are you? Fire? Aristyle is Earth? Susie your water and Jamie you got I bud? Thanks