Black Panther with Naomi Ekperigin and Ify Nwadiwe

00:00:00
Speaker 1: On the Bedel Cast, the questions asked if movies have women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they happen individualism, the patriarchy zef invest start changing it with the Bechdel Cast. Hello, and welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante Jamie Loftus, and we're here to talk about the portrayal of women in movie because that's what our podcast is about. Is what our podcast is about. Yeah, we've been doing it for a little while. Yeah, we're we're freaking veterans at this point. Yeah, that's scary. I looked at right now. As of this recording, we have sixty nine episodes. App Hell, yeah that's sexy. Right, that's so, that's good. That's very If I was in middle school, I'd be pissing myself right now, But I'm an adult, so I'm just like clenching and being like, that's kind of funny. Just sure. Yeah, So we talk about women in movies, we use the Bechtel test is just a jumping off point for a larger conversation. Hey, with Bectel test is a test you applied to media. It requires that the movie let's say you're watching, has two female characters. They must have names, they must talk to each other, and the conversation has to be about anything other than a man. Our version of is a two line of dialogue exchange. So can we demo it? I'd love to. Hey, Caitlin, was the vital test? I'm stupid, Jamie, You're not stupid. But the bectal test is when women talk to each other in movies about stuff that's not a man. Okay, but oops, we just mentioned a man. So did that. It's when movies have women who talk about I love the movie doubt. Okay, done? Did it? We did it. The best thing about the batal test is that it does not have to be well written. It just has to clear a bar, which if you've been listening to the podcast for a while, you'll find, uh, is is something that's freely taken advantage of. Definitely not in this particular movie we're talking about today, which is very well written. Right, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. This has been a big listener requests. Our feet has been quite honestly blown up with request for this episode, so we're we're excited to be doing that. So you're welcome everybody. Jesus So without much further ado, Oh, we're about to make Bechtel cast history because we have not one to guests who guests, a double guests. Yeah, more bodies, more voices. It's going to be terrific. I can't wait because these are both such wonderful people. We've got one returning guest, but also the first time I've been in the room with her for this podcast, because I not famously but irresponsibly never showed up for this. Didn't show up. It's all right, we forgive you. You You might remember this from me when Harry met Sally episode and so he was dowd. I'm sorry, okay, but you already know her. She's a comedian. You've seen her on two Dope Queens, Naomi a comparagon, Hey come back, and our other guest he's written for at Midnight. He has a podcast coming out soon called Nerdificent if e wad way, what do I thought you were going to say make history when you had you had two black people? I was like, you got back, but we're going to post black panther society. Where's it's very advanced. You know you have more Black people than of Comedy podcast and so shout out to y'all. We did it. So the movie just came out. Nami, you've seen it once. I mean you went it once, Iffy three times. I'm at three times. And also shout out to Aristotle who has also seen it three times. My god, Wait, we've got eleven viewings in one room. Okay, we're ready. We're ready. So what are your initial thoughts takes on the movie? That's my initial Yeah, no, this is this is as like a like you know, Nerd also as an African like black Pants. There's always been special to me because he wasn't just a black hero, he was an African hero. So it was literally like, oh man, he's like straight up just like me. And it's been a long journey because I remember, you know, when the m C you kind of started out Marvel Cinematic University, continue get the news up to speak. Yeah, at Comic Con, like they were saying like what kind of would be too hard to make? And but this was like post thor and it was like what are you talking about? You guys already just did Valhalla and it was just a long road, but we got here. And I feel like it was perfect because if it would have been done when I wanted it, it would not have had Coogler, because Googler, I think, only has done fruit Vale Station at the time. I don't think it would have had most of the cast, you know, it took a lot of the cast where people who just kind of blew up the sides, like Lupetea and Michael b was on his like hot streak by then. But the weight was needed. I didn't even know it. I didn't realize this movie was in some form of production for my entire life. Yeah, yeah, that this first started from from what I can tell, in ninety two was like the first mention of possibly making a black Panther movie. I'm so glad you not getting made in nineteen it would have had it would have been whacking, dude. But yeah, this has been a movie that's been in talks forever and yeah, yeah, I mean if it had been in ninety two, nightmare. I heard this current rendition of it kind of started back in two thousand eleven, and Kevin Fagy was like, uh not, Yeah, we need to wait for like the big producer over at markin O. I guess h n W d C had white dude in charge. Oh I had at the end, so that was technically had white dude. Okay, but yeah, he got the scripting. He was like, he's like, now it's not the time and he waited. And it's so funny because where did I hear them talking about how it was pushed to February because they didn't believe in it. But I think it was purposely pushed to February so it can be during Black History. Months after hearing Figgy wanting to wait, basically, he kind of was like, I want to drop this when it will be the most culturally relevant. And I was like, yeah, no, I you know, as much as I hate to admit it, he was right like, right now it's probably like the peak time to drop it because right now it's like the movie to see. There's not other movies that just came out that everyone's like and and and I mean as of this recording, two million dollar budget, million dollars at the box office. Right, what I said, Okay, people need to stop thinking that all black people broke or they don't care about culture, or they don't want to be seen. And at what point is like, do we have to just start trading our kidneys for movie tickets for people to start making our ship, because I think it's the same thing with girls trip right, another one, Wait a minute, do black women like move? It's like no one gets it. It's like we only bootleg ship because it's not worth us seeing in the theaters. When it's worth seeing in the theaters, we will three times. It's been great because it really just struck all the chords within the black community. I'm getting all the tease, like the hoteps are out. For those who don't know hoteps, I had to describe this before, but hoteps are like these super pro black dudes who think that they all came from Egypt, that that that's the only dope part of Africa. For some reason, they don't respect women. They think, you know, they're one of those their places in the kitchen, and and you know, America's the white man is trying to ruin backwards black families. And they wear as where a lot of petula oil and they oh yeah, and just my favorite hotep take check out YadA. They say that menistruation is the white man's invention and that if you follow their diet, you will stop having periods. That is hot, amazing and honestly I'm down to try. Oh my god, Aristotle's phone just started screaming about he has a Yeah, he has a Hotep's undercover Hotep. You'all talk Aristotle's menstruation alerts extremely responsive to talk of menstruation. Oh so, if you were familiar with the comic books, yea, Nami, No, I wasn't. I love action movies. I do not actually like comic books. I had to explain this to my fiance, who's a comic hid who who accidentally for my first birthday are not my first in life. Our first birthday together got me the Walking Dead compendium, because I do love that show. But when I don't, I don't know what order to read the boxes in and it'll be like a full page, you know, like a spread of like a punch, and that's supposed to mean something for me, and it doesn't. So I need it all in movie form. So I so I did not know the comic going in, and so I was surprised. I mean no, obviously I knew back when he appeared in the Avengers movie. Obviously, like where he was from, we're supposed to be. But I guess what I didn't expect out of the movie, and I don't know if the comic was like this was connecting it to actual present day black culture, you know what I mean. I thought it was all going to be like wa Kanda, we're gonna we're gonna hint it Africa without being specific so that if we're wrong, no one's mad. And you know what I mean, Like I didn't think it was gonna actually talk about kind of like he's fun. I guess that's what made it so good, right, Like the actual conflict of the center is a real conflict that is like has fucking shades are gray? You know what I mean? Like normally it's like we're good guys, we're bad guys. You killed someone, now you're a bad guy. You know, Like that's not a lot of the you know, the freaking comic movies are, and this one was kind of like I see both of your point. Yeah, that was a big thing with kill Monger. I was like, he's not going about it the right way, but like I understand where he's coming from because he's like he's all about wanting to provide aid to the people who look like him. All around the globe, while Wakonda like it just kind of keeps their resources for themselves. And all of a sudden, I was like, he's got a got a point. He's just a bad guy about it, yea. And the level of like nuance in this movie too is like another thing where you're like, thank God this wasn't made ninety two. There's like, I mean, even I've never been particularly into comic books, but even in the past year, I feel like there's just been a few superhero movies that I've actually been interested in, Like even seeing the trailer. Normally, if I see you know, like whatever, like a Superman trailer, even like it just like doesn't do anything for me. It's like, Okay, I feel like I know how this goes. But this is like a new kind of movie. This and Wonder Woman and I really like Thrown uh. And there's comic book movies coming out that you don't need to be like hardcore into comic books from birth to enjoy, because the movies are actually trying to like meet you and like connect with you and not just be like you're saying yeah, like good guy, bad guy, kind of cut and dry it if I can just Dip been a true nerdiness foods. The reason, I think, the reason that Marvel has seen so much mainstream success has been mostly because all the Marvel directors tag a genre onto a movie. I feel like early on superhero movies were superhero movies, as if that's a genre that works. But aunt Man is a heist movie. Thor Ragnarok is a straight up comedy. You know, We're still working on a genre for Black Panther, but I think it is both a Shakespearean like royal battle for the Mantle while also being like just a almost Spike Lee j Even though I hate Si, I like Spike Lee, love his movies, love everything you know he does to a point, hate everything he says, Like I can't. I can't get behind this guy pointing the finger at Gentrification. When the first check he got he got up out of brook, it was like, I'll see y'all all, this will be out here. So so y'all know I'm still down. When I'm an upper manhat should I do the recap? Let's do the recap? And also does feel free to interrupt the recap at anytime, everybody, if you will correct you? Yeah, yeah, classes So Black Panther takes place in the Marvel Cinematic Universe in the fictional country of Waconda, which is in like eastern Africa. The story centers around T'Challa. He's a black panther, which turns out is a power that he gets by drinking an herb, a purple heart shaped herb, and it gives him heightened strength and ability and agility and all that stuff. His father has just died, which we see in the first movie that we actually see the Black Panther character in in the m c U, which is Captain America, the one where there that was supposed to be good, right, Yeah, I was a good one. I'm a Winter Soldier head. Yeah, I love me some Winter Soldier. This one was not. Um didn't move me as much. Yeah. It was the biggest problem I think with Civil War was when it happened in the comics, it was such a big it was like a war between superhero so it was like insane. You're like, oh, these heroes are fighting. By the time it happened in the m c U, there just weren't that many characters, so it was just like a petty world star fight in an airplant. So I think that was the biggest letdown for fans, but I think driving the story wise, it was very cool to see that kind of split between Cap and Iron Man, his good friend Cap. Yeah, classic Cap. So we first meet um Black Panther in that movie. So in this movie we basically see his world, we see Wakonda. It's this futuristic like more advanced technology than anywhere else in the world because they have access to something called vibranium, which is a metal I think some substance. I love the name for, like random superheroes into all their stones. Met Yeah, it's like a precious super It's one of the strongest metals in the world. Yeah, am vibe. Yeah, it's been it's stronger like it's and it's and it's worth a lot of money. And in this movie, it's established that it came to Earth from space. I'm about to push it's okay, we talk about Black Panther. Whatever happened, she might deserved. So they have access to vibranium and it's helped have them like cultivated this like super hyper advanced society. But they're hiding in plain sight and the rest of the world thinks they're like this unpoverished nation. Meanwhile, we've got to Charlotte. He's like about to do the ceremony where he is becoming king because his father died in the Civil War movie. So we meet his ex girlfriend Slash, a spy named Nikia. I aspire to be called ex girlfriend Slashed by the hold time. And we meet a koy A, the general of his army. Um, and we meet Sure his sister, and these are all characters that are sort of like advisors of his and everyone everyone's So it's very distracting what I got. The movie him me like, I got to do bar method, Okay, because that body is my birth right. Okay, I go a stray and so if I just focus up, I've been to the gym every day since that movie. Straight up. It's been the biggest inspiration in my life. And when you see that hot bod, just know you gotta thank Michael B. Jordan A fact tag him in it. Right. So, um, we meet his kind of core group of people, his mother as well. Um, there's a character named Wakabi who is his pal. They do this like ritualistic ceremony to have him become king, in which people have the opportunity to challenge him, and they're like, oh, if you want to be king, you can also try, but you have to kill him. So it takes a bold move and there is one challenger Umbaku from the dick. Yes, is it the Jabori Jabari. So he challenges him and loses. He doesn't die though, because he comes back a later, because is a gracious, a gracious king. I'll give you a little soundclip just from me. For too long we have watched from the mountains. Your technology is overseen by a child. No longer you will not tabit. We will not tabit, or from a king who couldn't even protect spot. And then you push in on that face, push on Jolla feeling that yeah, I sweating. It's amazing panic attack that it really was dancing, it was. It came into his heart when he when he spoke, it like made me tingle and I found out after why it is because he spoke. Yeah, he spoke specifically with the Ebo inflection, which is the tribe that I'm from in Nigeria. And I'm kind of a hand of that, do you know, Opie, Oh he's Urba so yeah, well yeah, do the connect We should just have an all Nigerian show. So there's so many Nigerians like comedie, like black comics who are Nigerian. It's like so many just like just mad. We did not come here for comedy. But yeah, so you so everyone who's Nigerian had that same response to Imbaku and it's because yeah, that people inflection amazing. Okay, so back to this story, Okay, continue, So I'll try to get this as fast as possible. So basically he's on, He's becomes king. There's a villain named Claw played by Andy Serkis, so surprisingly any Circus went from Galen and Zay was like like he had that like I'm down with black people haircut. Okay, you could roll with the crew. So any Circus's character, Claw stole a bunch of vibranium from Wakonda years and years ago, which is another part that I forgot to mention. So we opened the movie it's in Oakland stern k Brown, which I think is crucial to establishing your powers black film. Okay, if you're gonna get a black film, if you're going to be trying to let us up, if you don't open with Sterling, it's not real and I think that was important. I don't know when they decided to do that casting, you know, right, this is us episode one, I don't know, and they were like, we got to get him in here, you know what I mean, to just establish that we ain't playing right. It's like not at the very beginning, but then someone like raised their hand. They're like, you know, it really start us up exactly. That's what I wonder with all of it too, Like even Daniel Kluja, right, because obviously we know him from get Out, but he's such a popular actor. Like I'm like, where did he come in the process or was it like one of those things where I was like, Okay, hurry up his ass in here. But I know it takes like two years to make these movies. When it was this movie shot before, I feel like this and get Out maybe we're shot around the same time because of how long these movies. I don't know if I can start a conspiracy theories that my buddies Aaron Covington, who co wrote Creed with Googlers friends with Phil Jackson, who got an early draft of get Out to like take a pass on it. So my theory is that Coogler somehow got to see an early early cut. Was that's that's my wil copy right there. Yeah, I probably did not happen, but let's just say I'm willing I believe it. Though. It does feel like exciting at least that this young black generation is bigger. I feel like there's a right like older Black actors are a legit ten of them and they all get all the awards, and it does feel like at least they're more young people now kind of to choose from, if that makes any sense, because I always felt like there could be only one. Also, technically there's two Black Mirror actors in this, because you remember Khaluya was in Black Mirror. He was he was the the American Idole one. Oh my god, I totally forgot about that episode. And then and then Lada she was in the season finale, right, yes, I saw that. When I remember that one, I was like, what do I recognize that interest from you? When that was it? Okay? So oh yeah, you're still trying to take us through the movie from top to bottom all right minutes. I mean, my guess is like people won't even need the recap because they will have just I mean we're gonna we're spoiling at everything. I know. I'm like everyone. Hopefully if you haven't seen it, you've had a week episode look within. Okay, No, you need to seek treatment. Okay, if you haven't seen it, pro tip for anything on there. And I don't listen to any podcast with the title of a movie you haven't seen if you don't want spoilers. I'm living in a post movie pass culture, like having seen it, exactly figure it out. So back to Sling Brown's character, who, oh my god, we're back at the beginning of the movie. He's the most handsome man I've ever seen in my life. I always hearing number one. He's like right up there. Okay. So he gets visited by King Tchaka Ino and he's like, oh, this bad guys stole our vibranium and you helped him. And then we see flashbacks throughout the movie about that interaction. Oh what the fuck? Okay if he okay for the listeners, okay, but if he very subtly and surreptitiously pulled out his cell phone to show a picture of his ass with sterling camera and another strong black man looking just like the goddamn Chopla Drop, the musical group that I would be following casual af best friends, all eyes to camera and cherishing this moment if he just casually like flexed in kits my boy, what where where up? So my boy echo echo caelum who is in black? Um? I was gonna say black like arrow yeah. And so he was like, hey, you want to go to a party with me? And I was like all right, yeah, finished, you're a black friend. And then he was like yeah, it's the e W Sack part. I was like, I'm like it was like a smoke cloud and I just run home. I don't want to suit And it's a Chateau Mormont and I was like, okay, this might be like some like whatever party. But of course I stepped in and all our favorite black started. Brian Tyree Henry from Atlanta. First dude, I see. I was like, oh my gosh, the black kid from Stranger Things, in all the black kids from Black It was like it was like, man, it was a lot of dope black activity going on there. And I walked outside and I looked to the right and it was Sterling K. Brown And I was like, okay, because my wife is in love with him. I was like, yo, I gotta take a pick with you for while he was like, yeah, of course it's not pregnant. Of course he's nice. And then of course he does the classic black someone taking a picture for us joke of make sure the flashes on so you can get all this blackness. So and so we got a picture and I was mad hyped. I was good for like the rest of me. I was like, all right, you have to back that up. Okay, back then up onto your hot drives. You put that in the cloud and make sure people have that print out copays. We'll put it on it. We just need this picture out there. Send it to Caitlin right now. Sure, as you were saying to Pouster Brown, seen one of the phone movie that we're talking about, I will say my number one crushing this movie is Winston Duke. Yeah, oh yeah. I was just like, oh, there he is. That's and I love when he has this little humor moments like that has been my feed for like since the movie is released. Was like, if you got to do imbakulas cops, like if you got like every day someone's been like, if you got to be Umbaku and it was like, look, my Beard game is not good at all, Like I'm sorry to break it to you off, so I'm have to get Beijing all over my flight. It was so funny to see the black Beard game. I mean, a couple of homies were a low patchy up there and I was like, honestly, appreciate your bravery. But I was like, please speak truth. Okay, don't be feeling that it in show the reality. Okay, a newbian beer. I was very there for the past okay is beautiful. I'm sweating again. Soul hasn't gotten past. So there's a subplot where to Chaka and his brother steranth Kay Brown's character and Joe Bu he betrays than I'm um, it's like a Caucasian nightmare. So many African names to say in succession. So um. So he betrays the then king and uh he gets murdered for it. Later on we find out, but he has a son who is a kid in this and grows up to be Eric kill Younger, the main villain of the movie, and he comes back first he kills Claw. He seems to be working with him and I'm like, what's this all about? Because helps him steal some vibranium from this museum and we're just like, what's going on? What's happening here? But then he kills Claw and he takes him back to Wakonda basically to use his leverage and be like, hey, I'm one of you. I'm Condon. I want to be your king, and they're like what who are you? And he's like, I'm the son of Joe Bu and I'm fucking like, let me do the Hey, it's the greatest lot of any fucking movie. Just just to clear up the leverage part. So what Coabi? Who is ta Challa's confidant. His parents were killed in the attack that we're claws sto the vibranium, so he when he went on the mission to capture Claw, he didn't get it, and what Cobby is pissed. But then Michael B brings him Claw's body, So now what copies like, uh to ta is my old friend, my new best friend is. So he comes in, brings him in and once again another SoundBite from from this scene, everyone's like, everyone's like, who is this guy? Who is this guy? So just so you know, the tension building, and then Michael B. Jordan's asked to Challa to say his name and he's like, no, I won't. And then one of the river tribe do with the huge disc was like who are you and he was like, I'm in d Jacob new Toby. Not my daddy would pay the marks in his chest. I'm here to enact my birthright for a seat at the throne. The music is picking up. It's like like dabbing in the thing. That moment was incredible. It was so literally, hey, Auntie is the greatest line movie. And it was just like, I don't know, it was just brilliant. I think he just did such a did such a great job of straddling both those worlds as that person and then kind of wanting to be the Wakundan king. But it was just the use of music in this movie is like killer too, because with a lot of superhero movies, I feel like it gets kind of lazy or just like a slow swell of strings when someone saying something. But this is like, it's like exciting in it the whole time. Quick Cyber. It is Ludwig Grandson who does the score, who you may know from Community and Happy Endings or creed Uh New Girl and Childish Gambino. He did Redbone. Uh yeah, yeah, he did Redbone and he also did some stuff with Haim too. So I've listened to the score. I'm like a scorehead, like my before this my favorite yeah, before this, My favorite scores were Interstellar, and I actually liked the end of tour like very like ambient cute score. This one. I've never heard of score like this in my life because he uses bass like rappers use bass, which is too much but just enough, you know, And it is like that same kind of like very uplifting, very traditional score, but mixed in with hip hop beats and African drums, flutes, chance, and it's like it's really is like nothing you've never heard. If he doesn't win Oscars for this score, your boy is gonna be like he was two seconds before we found out it was actually Moonlight. Oh my god, I was lost, cousin. Okay, so I'm almost done. So we got yes. So Eric Hillmonger challenges to Challa for the throne. They have their sort of ritualistic combat thing. To Challa appears to have been defeated. We think that he dies terrifying, and I just want to point out this fun fact. So in this scene when he dies. This actually isn't a fun fact about the story, but the fun fact of my second viewing experience. I was with this white lady next to me who was watching it as if she was possessed by a black person. It was like watching a movie with my mom. Seriously, But in that scene where he throws him off the waterfall and he dies, she leans over to me and goes, I don't think he's dead. You think like they didn't kill the protector. She was so confident. That's cute. So he dies, we assume kill Munger takes over the throne. He's like, we're going to send out We're basically gonna incite war all over the world and give vibranium to weapons, specifically the vibranium weapons for the weapons to black people over the world, basically so that they can fight their oppressors. And everyone's like, actually that doesn't really sound like that great any idea? And then Nikia the Queen and sure we all are like, hey, we should go to Umbaku and be like maybe you should be the new black pants there and he's like, actually I found your old one right there. And so child comes back, saves the day, there's this huge epic battle at the end. All that Len in the movie Theater is right. Part of how he's able to come back is because so when Michael b becomes king, of course the person he does is destroy the purple herb that can give the man the power of the Black Panther. Now, because you know, Lupeta is straight up spying on it. Okay, come into a damn hole in the wall. She give herself a little damn herb that is like for the road. When you find black Panther, the true Black Panther, they're able to grind up that herb that she stole. You know, he's in the last of it basically, um and then, which makes me really worried for a Wakonda. So after this movie it's gone, we'll see. That's what was so curious to me, because like in comic book lore, because they and they touch on it, the spirit of the Black Panther, it is a spirit that abuse you. So I wonder if they're going to introduce because in the comics the way sure he was, because sure in the comics eventually becomes a Black Panther and she takes over and becomes the queen. And then but black Panthers still Black panther in but all around the world. And the way it exists is because the spirit Black Panther abuses Sherry with like the spirit of life and che Challah the spirit of death. It's very cool. It's way cool. And I do like the idea of Surrey becoming queen, like I that I hope that happens. But just for another sound bite, you know this when he takes when he takes the herb, you know, he goes to the planes of the Ancestors and he sees his dad and his dad's like his dad's way too chill with his son, just being murked, like he's like, come on, it's time to come back, come hang with us now. And then he shakes and this is all in uh what Condon, which is actually Josha. Uh yeah, this is an actual language Yea from South Africa. So that's why I fun fact, even though this was very likely mentioned the casino scene, Remember when she's like stand down and like the dudes's like hey, it wasn't because she was loud, it was because that guy was South African. And I saw that because there's a scene breakdown that Coogler does, but we can talk about that takes inside. Oh yeah, no, we're going to get deepen. But so he goes and he sees his father and he's like why why He was like, we had to do what we did to protect but he he was a child walking behind. I have to go back and stop a monster of our own making, just stopping. I can't come back. And then he comes back like Jesus, oh god. I was like I was there, God, I didn't. You guys got Chadwick for this. That's that's an impressive recall for three times that I expect. No less a quote. I got a bad memory. I could I could go and just be like, well this movie is pretty good. Okay, so we're I think, I think yeah. And he comes back and he kills Michael Bright on an actual underground round so we gotta give our laugh last sound bite. So he kills them with a cool move. They they're fighting down you find out that they have the underground round roads, yo, and you know that probably was on you know. So they're fighting on this underground railroad where they turned down vibranium so that they deactivated so that they can transfer it at the speeds that the trains move at, so when they do it, they basically turn off all their protection. So they're fighting. They're going in there having the whole monologue to child does this kick ass move where he knocks the blade up and he stabs him in the chest, and then he's like wheezing because he said knife. My dad told me what kind of has the best sunsets? He told me, bring me here someday. You believe that a kid from Oakland believing in fairy tales. And at this point in the theater, I'm like, and then he takes him up to see the sunset and he's like, it's beautiful. We're dead. We're in it just tears everywhere. You're sniffle city. And then he's like, he's like, there's probably time to save you. He's like, nah, just bury me in the oceans, because my ancestors knew that death was a better faith than bondage. And he pulls out It's like this low draw drawn. I mean, honestly, I was waiting for a slave ship reference and the bed day came at the end. You know, in a way it was unexpected by that point. By time I heard it, I said, wow, Wow, you caught me off card for um and it was so perfectly timed. Yes, Sniffles City City, That's what it was. Yeah, one way ticket to Sniffles. I don't want to come back. I don't want to come back. Room and final tenious recap and then what kind of opens basically opens its borders, reveals themselves to the u N and they opened in Oakland where his father killed his uncle. He turns he's going to turn into a will kind of outreach center and sure he's gonna head it up with Nikia. And it's a very beautiful scene where kids called the what kind of spaceship a spaceship? Bugatti? When I was in a black theater killed mostly white theater, did not get it, but I still thought that was still like a little bit. I was like, Okay, I get it. You went people that you have stuff. I don't think you should lend your spaceship, Okay, I think you keep spaceship to yourself, honestly, purposely the whole time, the whole time. Let him know you got a little bit of a little metal, but never let me space ship. You can never let them know you've got a spaceship. But you know, it was put yourself out there. I don't know, I don't know. I'm such a good movie. Yes, Okay, So before I saw this movie, I didn't know anything about the comic books, wasn't familiar with the story, so I was not expecting this movie to do so well in terms of its portrayal of women. Well, because we don't expect superhero movies to do well with women ever. Right, I don't know about how black people do, okay, but we have no choice because our culture has killed and or incarcerated so many men that black women are in control of the home lives for so many people anyway, So if you tell most black stories, it's gonna be a woman kind of running things to some capacities. And then when they went the African route, you know what I mean, because they were based on real I don't know what the tribe was. The yeah, like an actual yea that they are part of the comics. But also like Coogler himself has been very so I guess I'll like go more into the part where I saw Coogler talk, which it was the first time I've seen Coogler talk. When was this before the movie Meet? No this was and he does a Vanity Fair scene breakdown, and he breaks down the casino fight scene and uh yeah, and oh god, I'm having my god. Uh yeah, I got a year to make my better panther, So don't worry y'all. But yeah, And what's what I love about Coogler is he doesn't code switch. He is the most Oakland sounding dude ever. He was like so when this breakdown, He's like, all right, So like I had it with a spear right here, and it's like but like, you know, he's very intelligent, and it was cool to scroll down the YouTube comments and everybody like, this guy's a genius because it's like, wow, we can speak how we speak and don't feel the need to wide it up. You know, me and Naomi, we just do we sound like this at all times. I grew up in Compton and was constantly asked why I talked it. It's because my father's people were colonized by the British. He has he knows no other way to teach me, but he very much like I was doing the Second Team podcast with Cody Ziegler, who saw his student film that he did where it was called I Think the cut or the hair cut, and it's about this man with dreads and he's walking to the barbershop and he's like seeing all these other black men with dreads and they're dapping each other up. And he goes and he sits down, he cuts his hair, and then the reveal at the end is that he cuts his hair because his little sister has cancer and got chemo and he's doing it to match her. And he was talking about how like within that he's exploring like your blackness being attached to your hair and all this, but also like the uplifting and supporting women within that like story. And I feel like Googler has always kind of had a mind to do that and just and I feel like this movie, I mean, y'all will tell me better than I would know. He really went all out because but I'm gonna let you'll do the y'all thing. Yeah, honestly, that's really brave of you as a man back and we're ready to look like I'm just trying to be more like Agent Ross and he to take his cues from. Honestly, didn't you feel like I thought the best thing I thought Martin Freeman's caucasity was utilized to great effect because I thought it was great to make effect. It wasn't too heavy handed. We didn't have this moment where it was like I'm not African garbs now you know what I mean? He never did that thing. Yeah. I had one family member on Facebook where it was like, well I love the movie except for the white Savior. They had to have it. But I was like, okay, honey, they pretty much gave him a task to do. The black girl walked him through it. You know what wasn't like I literally had the same conversation with someone today where he's like, I still find he was kind of white Savior. So I was like, how everything he did he was commanded to do it himself. He literally was begging for advice from a black like the whole time, like I I don't know what to do. And that's I think is the beauty of it. Is like him being like I I don't tell me, tell me please, and sure he while in the middle of a fight, is walking. Yeah, she's she's multitasking. Yeah. One of the first things I wanted to say, so all of to Challa's warriors are women. They are bald women, so that passes the loftest test yes, baldest women in charge, um, baldest woman in charge. Yeah. So the people that he's relying on to protect him, his life is in their hands are all women. We never see that sort of thing where like the warriors are women. I was like, holy sh it, that's sucking. And they're not like repeatedly asked too, as I feel like they kind of often are in action movies asked to prove themselves, like we meet them. They're very capable, they know exactly what then they're doing, and it's never called into question where I feel like a lot of movies ask its female protagonists to prove themselves to the male protagonist before they can start doing stuff. So that was like, yeah, it seems that to Challa and pretty much all the men in the entire country like respect all when like it, well, contest seems like it's like a gender equality utopia. That was the most magical thing about it. The Vibranium was like, Wow, sisters doing it for them sales, Yeah, feminist icon Wakonda is what's happening? Half of the tribal elders or women, um, at least half of Challa's closest advisers or women, because he's got Nikia a Koya and Shari, and they's also got a few others like um Wa, Kabi and Zori. But like so many of the scenes in this movie are him and like two or three women just fighting and kicking asked and like getting the job done. Yeah, you never see that's usually the opposite. It's like a ton of men and maybe a woman and often not even a single woman. Yeah, like maybe one woman who has to prove herself and make out with someone by the end. Or it's like when she does have a skill, if she's not obviously the superhero, like Scarlett Johansson's character of her name, but if it is a woman who like suddenly she kicks someone and is able to say, but you know, it's a surprising moments like I did know I could do that. You know you could do that? You know like that it's used for that, and I felt like I'm sorry. Then the male protectonst is like, yeah, that's because you're near my hard dick. Like that being near my hard dick made you suddenly capable. Oh my gosh. But what I was going to say is I feel like Coogler also made a real good point to say, like, these women are just as capable, Like if we look at the Korean chase scene, Black Panther was on the car and then who else but o Koy. She gets on the car now and she's sucking just as lost my mind. Literally, I was holding hands with my betrothed and whenever Denied Gera did anything, I would squeeze his hand. I was I was overcome. I had sexuality and power to release. But we were in a public space. She I'm telling you on the fucking Temperent car Spirit through the Hood, red Dress flying, I was dead. And you know I said this before we started. It's like, literally, denied Garera she had to put in her eight years as macheone, okay to get hers. And I was like, I mean even when she was show and she was amazing, but I was like, oh, yeah, you've been like killing people with a spear for eight years, so now you get to do it for Marvel. And it was just like so she didn't have to wear them, the locks, them that wig. It was like girl like she just was working free and killing them. Oh my god. And when she threw her wig, he was very empowering and spoke to me as a black woman. Honestly, by the end, when I was done, I was like, I gotta grow my hair out. Okay, go back to natural hair. Do the bar method. Connect with my strange African father. Those are the things I took away from that movie. So fun facts about the casino scenes. Since we're talking about wig Wig throw was in the first draft and he was like, we kept it the whole time. We loved it. That was our favorite thing. So also he said that in that fight scene he wanted to play with femininity versus uh, you know, functionality or something. He's a way smart thing that he says that I'm sucking up. But also here's some cool fun facts about it. About the color theory in that scene, so Didni Grera's wearing red, Luepete is wearing green and black, Panthers wearing black. That was on purpose because that's the Pan African flag. Cloud's wearing blue because that's the color of colonization of the colonizer that he said, Who's wearing blue throughout the whole movie? Our boy Michael B. Jordan's um the action scene where she's spinning the spear around her neck to fight those guys. That wasn't a stunt double that was actually denied um And but yeah, he wanted to play with the idea of using like you know, lethal femininity, which is why he specifically wanted the part where Lupete that takes her heel off and hits the guy and so like he really and he said, like you know when that guy grabs her and she like kicks his as he said, he wants to explore that because you know, the unwanted touch and like really defending yourself, especially in what kind of where like you know, that ship doesn't like fly. So he was very like to hear him talk about it and be very conscious about like just like he yeah, it wasn't just like, oh, we're just gonna have females kicking ass, you know, just like dudes. We're just gonna put you know, just replace a dude character making a female. He very he was very conscious about like what it means, the message and how it looked. That's awesome. One. Where do you find the time to get smart? I know, let us know went to sack and then he went to grad school in usc Oh. Does he have a master's degree. Like a certain someone we know who does have a master's degree in screen writing from Boston with your exact birthday, my exact birthday and social because you're because might be the same age, all right, because you're sev he's made are born the same week. I'm older than him by what six days? Wow, I have to pass away. I always get so excited when someone's born within a few days. I'm like, nothing, I contacted someone, when when's your birthday? My birthday is August and like, contact, I'm sorry to tell me this ship Before I got here, one of the girls from the School of Rock was born on the same exact day as me, and we're like and I like contacted her. I was like, I have to find you. We were born under the same moon. I got really into it. It's a good way to start any email. Yeah, okay, So the next thing I want to say is that, um, all of the main characters who are women in this movie are given an incredible skill set. So we've got Sure is a woman in Stem Black Women. She is the designer of all of Black Panthers like technology, and it seems like most of the technology in the entire city like she's like a head engineer. Here's a question though she's supposed to be a child prodigy R because she literally I know and realized she's two. She looks fifteen. I think she's she's supposed to be like like a TV. I think she's supposed to be like fifteen or sixteen. A teen genius. She registered to me is like early twenties US, it says on the official phase sixteen Ohio, Okaya. I love their relationship, her brother sister relationship. It's nice, I hear. Chadwick knew right away she was the one. As soon as they met. She was like doing little sister roasts and he was like, this is the one that was the one that was like wow, So that's Sherry that we've got. Nikia. She is a spy like an intern and a competent fighter. He's very good at fighting. Does not want to be queen. She's like, I have a calling, okay, like you cute and all I got you to do exactly that's back. That's eight plus plus for sure. Like she the fact that she's given a desire beyond just like wanting to be with Techalla is like we never see that in superhero movies, right, and and I mean just like based on how women are portrayed in media in general, where you're you know, it's like you're aspiring to the princess while you're aspiring to be royalty all the time. To see someone reject that and be like, actually, I have this thing that I'm really good at that I want to be doing like that, that is huge totally. It's like you're rejecting the first thing you're taught as a little kid of like, yeah, you want to be a princess probably right, yeah right. And she's like, no, thanks, I gotta go fix the world. And she's like, okay, okay, what about if I helped you fix the world? Compromise for her? He was like please please um. And then Nkoya she's the general of Tachill's army and she's someone says, the greatest warrior in all of Wakonda. Like she So these like three completely badass women who are given agency and skills and desires that relate to the male hero, but they are their own women. They exist outside of the male characters. Yeah, for their own journeys. I thought the only the only part of it. And you tell me like, was I could have used and I'm sure just got cut even we did not feel long they could have put it back in. I wanted to see what Hobby and a Koya together because you hear them say like my love twice, but you don't actually like see that relationship. And again I appreciate the fact that we did not see a kids until the very end of that movie, and we were letting romance run things, but I think it would have had it would have helped it even be more impactful, just to because she is this warrior person, what would that have looked like for her in a romantic setting? Like what if in any way does she let her bald hair down? You know what I mean? Like how did that look if that happened? You know? I just would love to see that second So that then too when she did, because I thought too because like you hear him say it, and at that moment at the end, I was like, I mean, I mean Bechdel hello, he was like would you kill me? She was like yeah, bitch, I was that is accurately. I just looked at that as because remember this movie was the original cut was four hours long, so so I'm like all right, that's part of the hour that was cut. Okay, oh my gosh, extended version. I'm probably gonna see that twenty times. But it was still under like it was still like two tens or something. Was thinking. I was because I supposed to meet someone. I was like, oh, I'm not going to get out for like two hours and forty five minutes. And then I was done in like two with previews, so I was like, oh, wow, this is very streamlined and still had all the turns it had right for Michael b coming in and fighting him and then taking over the getting unseen it, and and it was still like right and tight. And I said, well, then no other movie has any excuse give me, give me that director's cut. Because also I like, I'm surprised that the stuff Disney let fly, like when he was like all people come from here, aren't they? All your people are like, oh this is fucking everybody from Africa fac. I thought that would definitely be cut out. It was way blacker than I thought. Yeah. I really was like, wow, they did this, did this okay, excessive shoulder shape. Also what was cool too, is like you know they they and I'm sure pretty sure they couldn't do it because of the PG. Thirteen level. But having Cloud say savages versus niggers, because you knew he meant it like that. Every time he said he was like that savages. But the apartment was like, you need to be off that hard heart for me to really feel. This is what you're trying to give me to feel. Really, I thought the savages it was that like old school colonial, this is why we deserve to take this. That's a nice see. That was part of my Tarantino. I was like, oh man, they should say a nigger and Morphet Morpheet have not enough feet? Can I see? Okay his feet? I need to see how Coheat's feet. For the love of God, more feet. I mean that has been the main criticism Black Panther, not that one Rotten Tomatoes reveal where in Africa we know they don't wear shoes. Were on the feet? Wait, we do see Tolla's feet though he has Yeah, by the way, that was the only kind of like my nigga, you got African feet, like those were the most African feet. I was like, oh am, I looking at my dad's feet off. I mean between the beard work and the feet, I said, this is a true story, is a documentary. Ryan Coogler is pulling a punch it. Oh my god, feed him Like y'all couldn't even dress them up a little bit, man, I see that. That's that's look. I know how my feet look. If they're like, if we're gonna show c G, I c G, I would definitely say I need a foot dumble very real. Okay. I have been known to scratch up Andy's little leg at the time. Okay, I have an African heel. Okay, it takes the extra work. I don't always put it in so I could. Yeah, I really liked that we got to see Wakonda like in all of it's because one of the things that bothered me about for all the things I liked about Wonder Woman, is that we don't get to see the world that our hero comes from a lot. And it's such as how you saying, Yeah, that was something that I was worried about going into this movie, is like we're going to be introduced to Wakonda, and I had to do research into the comic books to know what I was like setting myself up for because I was like, there is this huge world that we're going into and I'm worried that we'll barely get to see it. But I felt like it was like for the relatively short runtime, like it was like fully real, fully explored, and we got to like see it because because so often I feel like we start with like twenty minutes of origin story and then we're out and we're in like Toronto for two hours or some ship. It was like, well, they shot it right in South Korea, South Africa and then randomly some Atlanta, Georgia and stuff. Um, and I love the way you used Georgia for like or yeah, I landed per se, but like Georgia general is like, you know, kind of dusty, kind of dirty, can really double as a lot of places. But it was like I could tell I sort of like, oh, they're in actual Africa, you know what I mean, or even they were just establishing shots. It did like make all that stuff feel you know, this beautiful residence. Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna connect with my strange father. Yeah yeah, I sell Black Panther and thought, maybe you know we should talk. Make sure you lead with you. No, I'm gonna tell him exactly why I'm not going to lead him to believe that he's done something. Ryan Coogler brought together. One of the very few kind of like grapes I have in this movie is that I think that the queen character was a little and I don't know if underwritten, but like I kind of wish she had more of a stance on things or just like mort yeah, because it's right, she's a mom, it's there. Yeah, that was kind of like a cutting dry maternal but I hope, I mean now that I know that there's a four hour cut of this movie, and like about Angela Bassett hit the cutting room Florida, Man, you have to leave so much for that new show one, which I look, I want to get into it. I want to surprive, but like, there's no way angel La Bassett is ever going to play blue collar for me. I'm like, I'm sorry to get out of here. Now. Why is this queen in a copy uniform? So we touched on this already a little bit, but there are countless scenes where women are kicking us assisting black Panther in whatever mission they're on, Like, like we said, it's usually him and then several women. So there's like the scene very early on in Nigeria to Challa shows up. He interrupts, I think it's a mission that Nikia is on. I don't know if it has to do with like human trafficking or something. Yeah, so she's trying to put an end to that. He kind of he like shows up and he's like, my dad's dad, please come to my ceremony, and she's like, you ruin my mission. But um a fight breaks out. But before that was like you're going to see her and you're gonna freeze. He's like, no, I'm nice. She's like you're gonna need my help. He's like, I'll be fine, and then he freezes because she's so strong and powerful that he's like and then does have to like step in save him. And then I think it's fine, but it's like you see you right away the movie. After the flashback in Oakland, the next thing we see is that one in Nigeria, and so like right away, we're just seeing two women kicking ass. Then there's a sequence in South Korea. First they're in the casino and then it transfers to out in the street when they're basically trying to capture Claw and stop him from doing the deal with the vibranium and it's Nikia Akoa and then Shari is like remote, she's still in Wakonda, but she's like doing the whole like driving the car black Panther. She's leading him. Okay, she's in charge of him arriving right, So it's like, can you have a driver's license like yourself right when you build the car? Yeah. So it's three women and one man fighting all the bad guys, and it's just like, oh, I can watch those scenes over and over again. Towards the end, we've got a koy A and the other warrior women fighting kill Monger and then she goes off and fights sort of the rest of the people and then the Kia and sureI fight him. So it's like this rapid fire, like a bunch of women fighting the bad guy. It's just like, I'm like speechless with how cool it is to watch. I mean, a Koya stopped the war. She literally stopped the battle, you know what I mean, Like she literally causes Wakabi to put down his wampa get on his knees, and all the other men follows. Yeah, because you think it's a big moment when the Jabari show up right, because that's another you're like, oh, they're gonna shut this down, and then it was actually her. I mean just I think the most perfect image is that rhinoceros, her stepping in front of it. It's been bringing it to a halt, you know what I mean that it licks her, you know, and you're just like, oh, yeah, who in charge here? You know what I'm saying, Like she literally just got that massive animal to stop in its tracks and she's like all right, we don't do this. But in the Beauty Is that scene ends with all those men bowing to women like And what was a cool little note that like was an extra kind of cherry on top was when the Jabari did show up, they made an effort to show a female Jabari warrior kill someone before. So it showed, you know, our man named Baku's like grab yanks someone throws him. But then in the next shot you see like, nope, they got females too, and they're kicking ask like it really you could tell there was an effort put to be like, no, we're showing that women are kicked just as much. Acid isn't like you know, this isn't A dude came to save the day. It's like this dude's army came. Another thing I wanted to talk about is like, you know, in a lot of action movies, I find that when you do have kick ass women, usually there's another woman, a woman for the women to fight, and it's like two women fighting. I think the only one you didn't really see that with was like Atomic Blonde, where like and she was the super kick ass woman and she was going toe to toe with dudes. But like in this one, it was like no, Also, no women betrayed the thing. All the women were loyal in this movie, and all the women were on the good side. Yeah, well, even like A I thought it was interesting again what we said about them being their own people, Like you know the scene between Lupitita, I'm just like Lupita a koy Tony, you know, I'm just calling. But you know where you really did see kind of like I don't necessarily It's like I didn't agree with a Koya in that moment where she's like I serve the throne whoever's on it, Like it was a tough You're like, well, this is this, this is this character's you know, code of ethics. Whether we are at least has a code, right, and then you're like, she's not comfortable, but she's like what do I have to do? Then she finally steps up, but then it comes back to in the end her love of country, which was her you know what I mean, like, which is her backbone anyway we know, like I'm just a spine. It's an extra friend, you know, And how I was like, no, you're a fighter too, you know what you mean? You don't just lurk. I think she has an arc, Like she goes It's like women never even get arcs most of the time in movies. So it's like, oh, because she goes from like and then she's sort of it's grappling with this thing. It's like, who am I loyal to the fact that she's struggling with something so complicated is like great, Like we don't see women do that in movies. And it's crazy because and I feel like it speaks to like the performance and the writing of like there's not a ton of screen time spent on that particular issue, but every time she's there, you feel that, and it's it's like, yeah, we can we can write female characters who have these inner struggles, even if it is a movie that's primarily about a man. And I also I really liked the tone of I feel like a lot of times in action movies, and I'm not particularly into action movies, but like a lot of times when there are women in battle, the movie kind of goes out of its way to congratulate itself on being like, look we showed a woman fighting, girl power, right and that I was like that that really fucking bothers me when it's like, look, we whatt a girl in it? Is that you do you like, maybe we have a trophy and it's like no, no, like the way the warriors are treated are as equals and they're fighting each other and yeah, like it's like you're saying if it's like Coogan's not going out of his way to be like, hey, look I I included women, Like it's so normal, It's just what it is. It's also like, you know, I know, people called out Wonder Woman's costuming and stuff. I noticed definitely immediately they were fully covered that they you know, because they are bald to you know. It was tricky with Wonder Woman because don't worry, I did cry during it. So it's like don't feel it, but there is this sense sometimes of um, it gets a little sexy, you know. You get your swoma where it's like a fucking hair hair, you know what I mean, and it's like a close and on abs and contortion, you know. Um. And this one it was now that they weren't beautiful, but it was so much about like strength and power. Yeah, it was less about like the women are never sexualized, like even when I mean, even when you see them look beautiful showing up in Korea and Lupete has got the stank face what I mean, she isn't like the wig, you know. So even if it's like they look great, but she's just like me alone, you know what I mean. She does not want to be bothered, even in that moment where it's like they are unapologenically sexy. Right, my god, the figures, the bodies that addresses everything about it. There's no sort of like so often in especially action movies, where there is like one female character which is sort of most of Wonder Woman too. You get the first twenty minutes in themishere, but then she would she usually one like it is her movie, and then for the month of the movie she is the one woman surrounded by these men, and she's also has to kind of prove to them that she's not crazy. You know, I no, come on, we've got to come together, and they're like this broad I thought about that a lot since we recorded our Wonder Woman episode, because we recorded it so soon after we both saw it where I was still like, but like, I've seen it two times since then, and it is there's a lot about that movie that's like, there are those moments where she's hot and proving herself to World War One soldiers and it's like they're why why does it always have to be a question? I also didn't like the bait like there was again I think again my tears were in that opening sequence, like I love that part, but then we get to this point where what I don't like is that she, as a result of not being connected to the world, she was infantilized, you know what I mean, like where everything is like new to her. The born Sexy Yesterday troup is Yeah. Pop Culture Detective did a video about it about this trump that's super common a lot of like sci fi movies, Oh yes, yes, where it's like a fully grown sexual woman who was like I'm a baby, yeah, which is super the second like you identify that trupe, you're like like why but there yeah, and and that's absent from this movie. Yeah. Yeah, you know. The women are always an authority. Like if we jump to the scene where they're questioning Claw and like she sees like a on the screen, she walks up to him in Kareem's like yo, what's that and he's just like, oh, this is what it is. Like he's never like who are you or like you know, like yeah, he was like, oh, this is what's going on and then uh, or like that wonderful scene where like her and Chadwick are having the conversation in your shot like in front of Ross doing like a just a perfect African job of how they talk ship in their language while staring right at you, and he's like, does she speak English? And she's like when she wants to and shut up, you know, like you get out of here. Like never once are they made to look dumb or in secondary to anyone. They're always an authority. And that was like real cool. The whole thing was like I'm not even that you know, that scene really highlights it. But the whole ideas like I'm not here for you, you know, I'm not here for you to make you feel better, because they don't say what you want to hear all the damn dib, I'm not here to have sex with you, or they don't even really you know, they don't even have the moment, either of them, because I definitely thought it would come into play because they do look so good going into that Cristino scene. There was not a moment where they, like, you sex to trick someone. That happened, you know what I mean. Like she's in a skin tight dress working it and there's never anything where like a man, you know what I mean, She like plays with a man's idiocy to get her way. It's like, no, I'm gonna do my job, and then when it's time to fight, I fight. You know. Yeah, you don't even get the feeling that she's wearing the dress for anyone, but just because that's what she wanted to She's like, we have to look fancy, we're going to part it right. It's like, but yeah, they don't do that thing, which I think you see obviously all the time, and it's always meant to be obviously A comment on male stupidity, but it is still it's become a trope that it's now it's it feels lazy when it happens, right. Also, something I thought about is, like, you know, you have the scene where Michael B. Jordan's his like Bonnie and Clyde girl, he just like shoots her. Oh yeah, and it's like straight up and I feel like in a movie without any of these strong women, it probably would have made me go, come on, you know. But it's it's that thing that we talk about where like when people like this isn't a big deal. This isn't because it was, like it wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't the only thing that you know that goes on. But the simple fact that you have so many strong women, so many women with like speaking roles, so many that like killing her off like it doesn't matter to make that statement doesn't ring as hollow as it normally does when you have your fridging scene. But that also I think tells you, you know, because of how he does set up femininity, it's exactly how you know he's a bad guy. Yeah, when we don't know the fact that he takes a woman out so soulnestly when it's clearly they did have some sort of sexual bond, you know, and she's even like, I'm sorry, you know, she says that for a second, he's like, my bitch, it lets you know immediately, oh he's no good, right, And he's also like, you ain't what kind boy? You know what I'm saying. You don't roll with the way we roll up in here. We don't be shooting him out, you know, all three times to gasp on that feel that you're like, oh, because you are like this is this is his girl. This is like she's been for all one of his highest they're always making out like I got a bigger mission. Like right, he kills a few women because towards the end he one of the warriors. And then in the early I think the only white woman you see in the entire movie is that British woman at yeah who I don't know if she dies, but she gets poisoned, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. It hits her with a straight up hotep speech when it's like oh you think, uh so, how do you think your ancestors got this? Huh? And you're like, okay, we get it. Your look was like with her coffee, and I was like, okay, I think you can leave now exactly. But I also looked how extra he looked at that scenies. Yeah, it was like so extra because it was like the layers of denim. Was it a vest or there's a jacket over the jacket Brodie Reid, you know that comic. Yeah, Brodie Reid has that exact same jacket and the exact same Yeah. Yeah. I feel like he was wearing your glasses between He was giving so many looks in the museum and I thought, I was like, honestly, your lucky security didn't come to you close. It was like, you're very extra right now, I was, I mean, you do feel that when when Michael b takes that lady out, I don't remember did she did she have a name that character? I don't know if we are but we called her relaxed Hair and then she was taken out and that was the big That was the bigger message in the movie is the one woman without she gotta god. I feel like that was like you were saying, like it's like a villain moment because it's hard for like even though I you go into it, you're like, oh, Michael Be's the bad guy, but it's like hard for Michael Be to lose me, and I want he killed the lady. I was like, okay, he kind of last. That's a great way to lose me in the movie, straight up murder a woman because I'll forgive a lot and a hot villain. Yeah, we know about your take on Spider Man too, and Alfred my my dog. Thick villain. Yeah, well I love a thick villain, look at my romantic history. But that also that leads me to another thing I wanted to talk about as far as like tropes in superhero movies in general. So I would say of the movies that we've done so far in this podcast, we see a trend of movies with a female protagonist faring better in terms of their portrayal of women. Movies with male protagonists usually get like a one nipple rating. So The Black Panther is like a rare example of a movie with a male protagonist that services its female characters extremely well, because like not every movie needs to have a female protagonist. Like, women make up roughly fifty of the people, like we um, so men identifying people would make up that. But then there's also gender queer and non binary people who make up a small percentage of people as well. But because like I think it's somewhere around seventy percent of movies feature a male protagonist, so we see this huge like gender and balance in terms of movies. But I think it is the responsibility of movies that do have a male protagonist to still treat its female character as well. So food them do Black Panther does. What does suck is that this movie still follows a trend of a superhero movie with a male protagonist. I'm hoping with the success of Wonder Woman will see like a shift in that soon, but this still follows a trend of being a superhero movie with a male protagonist. But I think it goes to great lengths to subvert the troops that we see in superhero movies. The troops that like that are specific to the treatment of women. I've made a list of just a few of them. I'm sure there are dozens more. How many different colors, fonts, highlights, it's a lot of crazy. Okay, I'm so lame. Wait, it's almost like she went to grad school. So some of the troops include they're only being one female main character, she's poised as the love interest in pretty much nothing else. She's given no agency, she's given little or no backstory, She's given little or no goal or desire outside of being with the male hero. Very often she disappears for forty five minutes at a time, and then she comes back. It's like, oh did she come back? For often because she was captured, held as bait uh and she's not able to fight, she has to be saved by the male hero. Black Panther subverts all of these trips, like women are never damseled, they're given agency, they have their own lives around fact stories. We have already talked about that. There is one tiny moment where Captain Kidding, where kill Monger has his like spear or whatever raised above sureI and is like probably about to kill her, and Black Panther does have to like throw him out of the way basically, But that moment it didn't even register for me until my third viewing because it's so quick and it's not It doesn't feel like she's damseled and she has to be saved because up until that point she had been fighting, and then after that point she's continues fighting that to me felt like a team moment. Yea, and being siblings helped him because women save male warriors asks so many times in this movie that it was like exactly, yea. And compare that sequence to the ending of for example, Spider Man Too, where Mary Jane is literally in shackles cannot do anything. But we all know that that's really Alpha Mollinas movie, Like we could have chained up the whole, like we would just be like, let's just everyone else get out of frame, let them in flex with his claws. Damn it. Uh. Yeah. The one time she, like Mary Jane, tries to do anything, she's immediately flung out of the way. She's literally thrown out of the climax of the movie. That happens to women all the time, movies where there What was the movie we did recently where like the female protagonist, it was Pacific rim where I wake up at the end basically like they get knocked out and then they come to when it's all been solved, right the movie make him worry. She is literally launched out of the climactic scene of that movie. There there, she's sealed up in a little pod and they're like seal at her bitch and then and then we see her at the end for a little nuzzle, and it's just like fud there, and that movie doesn't I mean, I just I anytime a woman's lawn start at the climax of the movie, I'm just like, well, okay, cool, that doesn't great. Let us know how it ends, right. Another thing I want to talk about is I labeled this section men be Crying because you see no less than five men in this movie crying, which is a mate like showing men crying in movies sends a message to men and young boys who are seeing the movie that it's okay to cry. That the new queer eyes just men crying. And I've never touched like. I watched it all yesterday and I was like, why is everyone you know going crazy over this? And I was like, oh, correct, men cry the entire time. White men, black men, young men, old man. Everyone's crying. It fed me. It was mana, it was man nectar. Okay, That's what I'm trying to say. I'm saving it. I'm saying it for a dark days. I'm saving it for when I need it. And then I'm canceling everything clear my schedule. I've got queer eyes. Yeah, because I feel like so much of toxic masculinity stems from men not being able to emote and feel their feelings and like be expressive of their feelings. So the fact that you see to Challa crying, you see his dad to Chaka crying, You see Zuri, who we haven't really talked about, but it's for a Whittaker's character. You see Joebu crying, that's certainly k brown. And you see kill Monger crying. You see five men shedding tears, kill Monger adulter kill. I think the adult. Yeah, how does it feel as a black man is see black? Oh it's great. I didn't feel this clean since just back to being cleans. Yeah, they went to a sniffle city, yes, there, but the moments when men were crying this movie, I'm like, oh man, I'm really glad this movie is PG thirteen. I'm glad. I'm glad that Like, yeah, I'm glad that like young men can see this. Yeah, and your father we're in it again? Sound fine? That kid was Yeah, he's like he's like eleven, He's like everybody dies, And I'm like, well, nok go play us some toys. That's reality. No man speaking of toys. So sorry this interesting transition. I know the scene where he's trying on his new shoes, she's like, oh, I call them sneakers. Ha ha. She's like, these are like fully automated shoes, just like the ones in the American movie that Baba used to wear. What movie Back to the Future? Okay, that's what I thought, I was I assume, yeah, yeah, I was just like did they just make it back to the future? Like it was a very like just a nerd where it's like you have to know to know if you know, you know. Another thing I wanted to mention is that it's a panther goddess that shows the condoms flower. Okay, you just yeah, like panther. Yeah, it's like pussy goddess flower. Like it's like, okay, we get it. It's about women, right, and it's does someone say pussy goddess flower? Because it's a flower that gives the black panther his power. Flowers are very feminine little things. And the fact that it's not like some because so many superheres are like, oh, you're very rich and good at technology, and that's why you're a superhero rock. H Yeah, you were strong enough to withstand this rock and now you're super so. Yeah. I liked that it was a flower that gives some his powers flower power, and now you're making a soundless strong Okay, you don't ruin the vote for me. Did you know that flower? We came forth from the pussy goddess flower. I was gonna say that flower. I was gonna be like, did you know that flowers have eight petals? And I was going to make a fake flower factors, but then I remember panthers or cats? Have cats have eight nipples? You know? This is cat factor with Caitlin also, yeah, that's crazy that we've been talking about panther and that hasn't come up soon, right, Um? I think the Black Panthers suit should have had eight nipples star to the George Clooney nipple Batman suit. Oh, that would have been so distracted if you look very confused, And it was absolutely not because I could picture it because I remember that Batman suit was like, oh man, yeah, could anyone actually summarize that movie? Or we were we so transfixed by the nips? I stand for the nips. Okay, good, I'm here for the nips. Something that's been talked about a lot in this movie is colorism and how it's very rare to see dark skinned black people. It was the greatest moment of my life. I love it. I love light skinned people have been tripping over there's no yeah, because you're in everything else. Give us this. You have Shamar Moore who's in there having just weird threesomes, so give us this, and you at most rap videos like so it literally did make me feel better because I'm constantly like because I've been I've been going out on auditions, like when my first is my first go in l a pilot season, and what it is to kind of go in for stuff and even just to read the script like I when I was like, this is for a white woman, you know what I mean? Like when I literally read it and I'm like, okay, Like so how much work do I put in here? How likely is this? My whole big thing is. I was like, I'm never gonna be on TV. My eyes are too small. Everyone has big eyes like dinner plates. And then I was like watching I was like, actually, like no, not all most black people don't. I was like, oh, that's like a thing, you know what I mean, Like it's a white standard of beauty. And then when I was watching that movie and I was like, Okay, no, maybe I'm okay, Maybe I'm okay. I will shave my head though, but I was like, but it was I don't know. It was like just on that very minor level where I was like, Okay, maybe I'm not so bad, but it's unfortunate that it's either a totally black world or it's like the one black person supporting a Caucasian dream. I mean, but anybody. It was so great, and I was like, oh god, I'm lighting all those black people so well, picking up all the tones. One of the very few females and a photographer in this one awesome. Her name is Rachel Morrison and she was the she did mud and she isn't she nominated? Is the first I did not know this first the first woman. Yeah, first female cinema talkingper ever, because cinematographers are almost never women on like mainstream, big Hollywood movies. Yeah. One last thing I wanted to say, do you think that there is a surprise kiss at the end of this movie? There's a kiss? A fan mentioned it might be a surprise kiss because he kind of So it's after the whole battle, Te'challa and the Kia are hanging out in the city and he's like, please stay, please, you can do men do a lot of begging in this movie, which is like a pretty times very sexually charged. For me, it was like this, I love there. Yeah, but continued so like yeah, he was like, you can do what you want to do. I have like an idea for you, because her whole thing has been she wants to basically do like outreach and use the resources that Wakonda has to help other parts of the world, and he's like, yeah, we can like figure out a way for you to do that with also like staying here with me. She's like, and please be my girlfriend, and then he like swoops in and kisses her. It's not in a situation where like she was necessarily expecting it or prepared for it. I read it as kind of a surprise kiss. Yeah. Yeah, But then he like kind of backs away. He's like, sorry, I had to I almost died like that. But then she leans in and kisses him, so she returns it. Right. It's not I mean, on the on the spectrum of surprise kisses, the worst of course being The Mummy, a feral Brendan Fraser leaping out of a cage and kissing a woman who immediately falls in love with him, which is like cartoonish. I feel like this was sort of a surprise kiss and I feel like, because I just saw this movie, I was like, because that's how movies condition us to feel about the surprise cast. Sometimes I did appreciate that she returned it, so it wasn't like I don't know, but I think it kind of Yeah. I feel like it was just in the sense that they had history, and I feel like when you're around your ax and you're like, what's up. Sorry, And I also't like that he I also do like that he acknowledged like, yo, I did kind of press the gas. Yeah, plant the gas. And then she was like, all right, you did this time, but next time, well it was and maybe I missed it, but that was the only time he joked. That was the only funny line he said in the movie. You know, he was not the funny one. And so he's like, I almost died, and you're kind of like, you know, I did, I know because at that registered to be and then I was just like, but it. But part of me also wonders if it was like because I'm to be misremembering the trope, But isn't it usually like the girl does a small kiss and then like the guys like, yeah, it's time. So I was wondering if it was a flip on that. No, the surprise kisses the trope and the girls like it's okay, I don't remember. I don't remember a lot. I mean, it goes both, but I think normally it is like a man comes in for a kiss that the woman is surprised about remember arms going from open, takes it in the kiss into her heart, where when the kiss starts, it's like, this could go either way, this could go either way. But almost every time it's like, no, she just fell in love somehow got radioactive fox saliva, She's gonna whatever. Thinking at the funny characters, though, it's all the women. All the women have all the left line. Yeah except for Hembako think Zaddimbak, who really has some Are you done? He was here? He was just here, he was just here. Sorry, y'all. I have a million bottles in front of me. I am I have an unquenchable thirst drinking. That's what happens when I think about Lupita, right, and every strong woman, I'm like, man like. I figured that out in Atomic Blonde, that like women kicking men's asses like Wolf. That's fool. My god, I just haven't been allowed to see it. I know, it's like, this is what I need. Right, Um, let's talk about whether or not the movie passes the Bechtel tests. It passes it next, I'm sorry, I don't know about it. There are a lot of scenes where women are talking about, usually to Challa, so they do not pass. I found a few that can. I take a guess, just just just a free ball. My first guest is the scene outside the Korean club where they're discussing her previous time there, and they only she mentions to Challa and them as a group once, but besides that, they're just talking about why she's bad news and the thing she did last time she came. She's speaking so because it's Nikia talking to the Korean woman, right, because she does have a name, she's given a name Sophia, I think it is. Yeah, that's that's one of my contenders. Is a passing. This is a table in Klys. I can't see it, but I'm guessing you're not wrong, and I think it's either right before that or right after that Akoi is wearing the wig. She's like, I can't wait to get this ridiculous thing off my head, and Nikki is like, oh, it looks nice. Just whip it back and forth, and then Akoi is like disgrace, which I think is a dig at willow Smith, but it does pass the Backelt because they're talking about her wig. And then there's a scene towards the end in the big battle where Nikia and sure He kind of meet up and one of them is like, are you all right? And then I was like, yeah, I'm okay you, Yes, let's go. That passes a lot of these other ones, though I think they're talking about because is like a scene where Nikia and the Queen. The Queen's like when they have the herb that they stole from the garden, right before it gets burned, She's like, you have to be the one to take this because if we give it to Umbaku, he's going to create an even bigger monster potentially, and she's like, no, I'm a spy without an army, I don't stand a chance. So that like kind of passes at the very very end of that conversation, I think. But up until that, I mean, what about this scene where Nikia comes to a Koyer and she asked her to revolt, and she says before that, she's like your spy who comes and goes as you leave? And then uh, she's like, who do you serve? And then she's like, I serve my country, and then a Koya goes, well, I serve the throne no matter who sits up there, so she doesn't necessarily say a man. She's saying it's the throne, which I also thought was badass because she's like, oh fu tchalla jadaka who sits there? It's that's who I say. Yeah, they start out being like, oh, let's overthrow kill Monger and you're like no, and then they're like, but I love to Chila. It's the love part. But other than that, I think the combo fly yeah, and that conversation ends being I think the key is like I love my country, and then Aqua is like, then you serve your country, and she's like, I save my country. That pass so many like good lines like you're still is literally thirty combined years of Okay, those black actors who show up can't just be basic. Okay, you need a fucking Juilliard degree to throw a spear, you know what I'm saying. Like everybody there is like like, oh, the acting was so good. I was like, cause, these bitch has been fucking you know, doing theater for forty five years, all got m f as. It's not you know what I mean. It's like none of them were found on YouTube, so you're getting extra level shit. Yeah yeah, Um all right, let's write the movie on our nipple scale. So we've got a zero to five nipple scale ratings specifically based on its portrayal of women. So put your nips on the table a time to do it. I think I'm giving it a five nipple rating. The fact that you see women just kicking as the whole time, having agency, having desires, having skills. They're all women of color. We rarely see this on screen where strong black women get to just like kick as, at least in mainstream Hollywood movies. This movie is a triumph for women. This movie, I hope will be just like a cultural landmark for years to come. I'm so glad this movie exists. I hope that everyone sees it millions of times. Carolyn, do you like this movie? I think I think that women are represented so well in this movie. I was speaking to this earlier, like, it's not every single movie has to have a woman protagonist, but of the movies that do have a male protagonist, I think it's important still obviously to do justice to its female characters, and this movie does an excellent job of that. I'm giving it five nipples Nikia koay A and sure he I'll get one, so does Angela Bassett. And my final nipple goes to I think I want to give it to Imbaku, yes, because he was like all geared up to be like he was sort of established as this like kind of the most toxic in his masculinity of all the male characters, and then he came around and we were like, great, he's a good guy. He's also very handsome. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go four and a half just because I'm a little bit I'm gonna go I'm gonna go for and half. There's like there are a few little things with this movie. Wasn't crazy about the surprise. Kiss wish that the queen character had been given a little more depth, a little more things to do. But I mean, obviously everything I agree with that you're saying. There's is it's so rare to see a movie where when men are represented not only as capable, but respected by the men who surround them and really working on equal footing the entire time. They have romantic lives, but they're not identified by their romantic lives. It's just it's great, There's I don't I don't have that much to add. I really liked it. I'm excited to see the director's cut to see what, like more there was that we didn't get to see, because there's like little moments where it's like, yeah, I would have loved to see these two women talk more, these or even these two characters. Um, I would have loved to see like a softer side of a Koya. And I'm I feel like that probably exists somewhere. I just haven't seen it. So I give it four and a half. I'm giving two to Sure because I just I just love her. I love that little baby genius. Giving two to Imbaco because he's my crash and we must give things to our crushes and the last half to Okoya. Yeah five knits maybe literally at all For me comes down to that moment when a Core is staring at Wikabi and he's like, would you really kill me? And she's like, for Wakanda, I will kill a man for I will kill my love right, and the person she's like, I have bigger dreams or I am tied to more than you, and I think you don't see that. It's I think, especially superhero movies, it's all kind of like, you know, the idea that you employ your powers, you do whatever for love, right. It's always like to get this person to save this person. You know, you killed my parents and I have to avenge them. It's a love thing. And this was so much. You know, this movie was about the bigger It was about country, it was about nationality, home, spirit, those bigger things, and the men kind of came second to that. You know. Even in the conversations about T'Challa, mostly they're about him as king, as ruler of this nation, not as man I love you know, so you kind of again, it's like he's a symbol, you know, in a lot of ways, he's he's the symbol and the women are like the people grappling with the symbol, which makes sense. Five nips maybe five hot nips them to three go to ok, yeah, yeah, to go to Nikia nice perfect. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and drop five cocoa butter moisturized, you know, the super chocolate Ariola, Like yeah, same, the same for me, where it's like, not only does it pass the Bechdel, but yeah, you do see women be like men don't matter. And I think what really drives it home for me is like without the women in this movie, they couldn't have won. They could not have won. And I feel like a lot of action movies that have women, you can take the woman out and they're either no longer a burden or like it would be a little harder but they'd be fine. But the movie would literally stop without those women. It took Nikia's foresight to like, let me get one of these herbs that I might need this. It took them like going up to Umbaku in the cold. You know, you know, angela basset don't do well in the cold. You know, it's those those dreads were holding in all that winter, and you know, and what what was Imbo, do you just have to cholott on ice? You just got this cold nigger just in your house forever, Like, what was the plan? He had no plane, he had no plan. He just yeah, like, I'm gonna just wait till the dust settle and I'll figure out what to do with this icy ass right here. So like you needed those women for it to be success, and for like, even without kill Monger, Black Panther would not be who he is without Suri's it is built around and you know it and her tech is a real pinnacle of the movie. You see it used. You see it in the sneakers. You see it used with the balls that thrown off her knocked him out with his own suit, Like she plays with him, she's like and like the first words out of Shrey's mouth is teaching her older brother about tech. Where she's like, just because it works doesn't mean we can't make it better. So yeah, just lots of women in charge. So I'm definitely given to to Sherry to do Koya, and I guess one to Nikita. You know, I want to give her to but I only have one to spare you. Six nipples, alright, six nipples. Six butter six, purple Airy Yolas. Oh my god, thank you. This has been so much fun. Yeah, thank you so much for being here. Now, I mean, where can people find you online? Is the find me on a Twitter at black Dress Come to Couples Therapy the second Saturday of the month at nerd Melt. Don't believe you've got that that handle. I know you got to come in early. Before I even tweeted anything. I was like, let's give it to me. That's why I'm joining all these other sites, Like I think, I don't think viro is going to be anything, but I need to take iff he now because if he is being squat on and I can't get anyone to give it to me. Speaking of which, you can catch me at if the waddy wait which is I F y in W A D I W E. On the Twitter and Instagram right now, it's just a lot of black panther content. Perfect, Yeah, so perfect. You might want to see that cool sterling brown picture we've been. Yeah, I'm at u c B every second Friday at tim thirty UCB Sunset with white Women. We have a show called Your Token Friend, where we interview a person of color about being a token in a white space and then we do improv off of it and then uh, every first Saturday we have me Brody Reid and Minium have a show called deep In at Echoes on Peak Up. Nice, excellent. You can follow us at Bactel Cast on Twitter and sorry being impressed by the Olympics committee. Well, you can subscribe to our Patreon. It's five dollars a month and you get to bonus episodes of the Dachtel Cast. You can buy our merch online. We've got buttons and pins and they're cute as hell. Yeah, so by those and getting real fuzzy Harry Nipples stickers. Yeah there. If you can't believe our lowest seller. People don't want the pictures I drew of Harry nipples by our free nipple buttons. It's mean rude anyway. Um, thanks for listening and Wakonda forever, forever, forever, go ahead. Oh I'm sorry, I'm sorry,