Puppy Culture Potluck: Ep29 - Teaching Puppies to Share: Dog-Dog Resource Guarding Prevention.

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I'm Jane Messineo Lindquist,

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and this is a Puppy Culture
Potluck podcast.

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You bring the topics,

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we bring the conversation.

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In this episode,
we're going to be talking about

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resource guarding between dogs.

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So not resource
guarding things from people,

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but dogs who’ll resource

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guard things from other dogs.

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And here's the question:
I can't seem to find it in the video.

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What is the protocol to work
against food aggression within the litter?

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We've been doing marrow bones and resource
guarding training with people,

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but a few of the puppies are showing
aggression

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toward the other puppies at mealtimes.

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Any info appreciated?

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Thanks.

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Okay. Me again.

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The reason she can't find it

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is it's not in there.

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I'm going to talk about why
that is why I didn't

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include dog to dog resource
guarding protocols in Puppy Culture.

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And I'm also going to talk about some tips

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for preventing and managing resource
guarding between dogs.

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So two reasons I did not include

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dog dog resource
guarding in Puppy Culture.

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Number one dog to dog resource guarding

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probably has a much stronger

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genetic component than dog to human

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resource guarding.

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And the reason
I think is pretty intuitive.

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We can tolerate a dog

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that, for instance, can't have a bone,
share a bone with another dog,

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or has to eat
separately from the other dogs.

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But you know who's going to sign up
for breeding a dog that you can't even go

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near its food dish when it's eating, or
you can't take chew objects away from it,

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or it won't let you on the couch
when you want to get on the couch.

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I think it's not most people's idea
of the ideal temperament for a dog.

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So the genetics of resource guarding

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against humans has been very heavily
selected against by breeders

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in a way that dog to dog

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resource guarding has not been. Now,

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I know there's going to be a number
of people listening to this thinking,

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well, but why don't breeders select
against this dog to dog resource guarding?

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And I'm

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going to ask you to put a pin in that
because I'm going to talk about it later.

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But suffice it to say
it's it's a much more complicated,

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algorithm than it would at first seem.

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The second reason

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I haven't done dog to dog resource
guarding protocols is

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you're working with two dogs.

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If you've ever done anti resource

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guarding protocols,
you know how precise you have to be

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with your timing and how clear
you have to be with your body language.

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Jean Donaldson does an

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amazing job
of explaining this in Puppy Culture.

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I demonstrate very clearly each step,

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how you have to hold the food
a certain way behind your back

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so that you're presenting
the correct picture, how you have to be

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crisp, one two, present this,
and then this.

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There has to be a certain order of events
for you to be creating

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the correct conditioned response, and
not the incorrect conditioned response.

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And before you even get to that point
of doing exchanges,

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there has to be a whole counter
conditioning and desensitization.

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And yes, with puppies,
you can run through that very quickly,

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not do a lot of counter
conditioning and desensitization, but

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at every juncture, let's just establish

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you do have to have really good
timing and body language

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and be very, thoughtful
about the way that you proceed with this.

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So now you see, when you have

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the second dog as your trainer,

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why this could be a problem.

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You really can't control the second dog.

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So a lot of times that dog is going to be

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giving the wrong signal at the wrong time

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and making things worse instead of better.

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It is very difficult,

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not impossible, but very difficult

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to create positive,

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conditioned emotional responses
when you're dealing with dog on dog

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resource guarding, because you've got
this wild card of the second dog.

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And I'm going to talk
a little bit more about that.

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But those are the two reasons why

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I didn't include it in Puppy Culture.

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Dog to dog resource guarding protocols are

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so dependent on the second dog

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and so dependent on genetics

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that it's not something, in

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my opinion, that is susceptible

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to a single set of universal protocols.

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There's a lot more nuance involved in it.

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Okay.

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All that having been said,

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I do have five golden tips

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that I have found helpful over the years.

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First tip,
now we're talking about puppies.

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Okay?

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I'm talking about a breeder
who has a litter of puppies.

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Always make sure that there is way more

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of whatever food or bones or resource

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than the puppies could possibly
eat or use.

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So double the amount of meaty bones

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and there should always be food
left in the dish.

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Absolutely genetic resource
guarding from other dogs

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and from other people has nothing to do
with the amount of resource.

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And this has been studied where
they'll put a dog in, you know, a room

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with 100 boxes of milk bones,
just milk bones everywhere

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and the dog will resource
guard everything.

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So with especially with adult dogs,
the amount

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that you put in
or give the dog doesn't influence.

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It's not a needs based thing.

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However,

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in my observation, there's some truth
to the fact that puppies

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that feel deprivation very early in life
that it can sort of trigger this genetic,

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the sleeping genetics of resource guarding
against other people and other dogs.

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So start with more resources
than they could possibly use.

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At least you're checking that box off
that you're not going to be inadvertently

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triggering resource
guarding in your puppies.

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Regarding location, guarding,

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particularly guarding of humans
when you're holding one

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puppy in your lap, feed
the ones that are not on your lap.

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This has not been as big a deal for me

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with my medium to large sized dogs,

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but Magda Chiarella, who breeds Norwich
Terriers,

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has a whole protocol for this
because any dog that

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is going to be a lap dog,

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or would be spending
a lot of time on your lap or in your arms,

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they can definitely start resource
guarding that space

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both from people and other dogs.

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I just want to

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distinguish this
from what we show in Puppy Culture,

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because what we show in Puppy
Culture is a protocol that's designed

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to condition a feeling of expectant
happiness when a person approaches, okay.

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A person approaches,
they add treats to the equation,

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they go away,
the puppy starts to feel yippy

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when the person approaches.

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This, feeding

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the other dogs on the floor
and not the puppy on the lap

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is not creating a positive

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feeling about the dogs
that are on the floor.

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But it's doing two things.

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Number one, it's

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lowering the value of the lap
and raising the value of the floor.

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Because now all this food stuff
is happening on the floor, not the lap.

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So that's one thing.

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Number two, it's maybe not

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creating a positive
feeling about the dogs on the floor,

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but it's keeping the dogs on the floor

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from creating a negative feeling
because they'll tend to stay

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more on the floor and not try and broach
the the puppies space, the puppy

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that's on the person's lap,
or in the puppies or the person's arms.

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So it's an elegant solution to the problem
of not being able

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to control the second dog and the messages
that the second dog's giving.

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But that brings us to my third tip,

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which is more of a cautionary tale.

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I had a litter about ten years ago,

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and I tried using a manners minder,

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which is a remote treat dispenser,

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to create a, positive association

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for my puppies with having another dog

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walk past their crate.

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We don't really have an issue
so much with lap guarding,

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because our dogs are too big
to fit in laps

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for the most part,

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but we do have some issues with dogs,
guarding spaces

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like crates from other dogs.

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So this experiment had mixed results.

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There were nine puppies,

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and eight of the nine
wound up with zero crate aggression,

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but one of them wound up running into

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any open crate and guarding it,
if another dog walked into the room

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And that dog has zero dog
aggression and accepts even strange dogs

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into our house without hesitation,
she just learned to guard the crate

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because every time a dog came around,
there was food in the crate.

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So again,

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probably genetics play a very strong role
here.

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And again,
the big dogs wouldn't always cooperate.

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Sometimes they'd turn around
and look when they heard the manners mind

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or go off,

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or they'd even approach the crate as the
as the puppy was getting, the treats

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so the wrong emotional
response was created.

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I don't really have any advice for you,
except probably it's not a good idea

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to try this, and it's just an illustration
of how difficult it is

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when you're working with multiple dogs,
because you're trying to control

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so many factors
that you really can't control.

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The fourth tip I'm going to share with you

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is something that a very wise
breeder told me years ago,

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and she said that your dogs

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should always think
that you will protect their interests,

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and if they

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truly believe
that you will protect their interests,

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they will be much less likely to squabble

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amongst themselves.

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So pursuant to that,

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this is what I do.

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I take my puppies out individually
with my most solid big dog.

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So my whatever big dog I have in the house
that is the least resource guardy,

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that's the dog I use for this exercise.

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The big dog gets a treat,

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then the puppy gets a treat.

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I count to two and I repeat.

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Big dog gets a treat.

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Little dog gets a treat.

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One, two.

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Big dog gets a treat.

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Little dog gets a treat.

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One, two.

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The puppy develops

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a happy feeling about seeing the big dog
get a treat,

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because he knows in two beats
he's going to get a treat.

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Again,

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we go over the whole timing thing
and how you hold your food

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and everything in Puppy Culture,
so I'm not going to rehash all that here,

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but it's important
that you get the order of events right,

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that it's one two big dog,
then little dog.

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It's not the same time, it's big dog,
then little dog,

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then very important,

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when I'm done,
when I want to end this session,

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I will take the last treat

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and I will throw it away

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across the room for the big dog.

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So the big dog will go away
and find that treat.

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Meanwhile, a puppy under 12 weeks old,

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they just don't have the vision to see it
being thrown so much at that age.

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So the little dog,
the puppy will stay with you

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and you can feed that puppy a treat
while that big dog

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is across the room,
getting that thrown treat.

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What does that do?

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It makes both animals
feel that they got the last treat.

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If you don't do this, you run the risk

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of creating a negative association
for the big dog.

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You never want the big dog to think

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when he sees the puppy get a treat

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that his opportunity for treats is closed.

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So this prevents that happening.

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And my final tip on this is that

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the most important thing I can tell you

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is to be realistic
about your expectations.

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It's just not fair to expect

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dogs to share all the time.

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In our house,

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we never put down a high value toy or bone

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when there's more than one dog
in the room.

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We never feed two dogs in the same room,

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even if we think we could, we never do it.

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Lots of dogs can't share.

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One of my top two dogs ever

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for lack of dog aggression
and incredible dog skills, was Zulu.

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Zulu was my not just not dog aggressive.

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She was my neutral dog for seminars.

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I mean, literally a dog could fire
off on her and she would just stand there.

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This dog,

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I mean, there was nothing
I asked of her that she wouldn't do.

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She had excellent level agility titles.

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She did rally. She did swimming.

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She was a champion.

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She was a ROM champion.

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Group placements. Best in specialty show.

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The best mother.

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Hands down I ever had.

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Unbelievable with her puppies.

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I could do any benched show and sit

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with her in my lap the entire day.

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And hundreds of people could come up
and just molest this dog,

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just pat her all day long
and she would sleep on her back in my lap.

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Champion, ROM

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champion, brood bitch
and Meredith's offspring.

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Grandmother. Great grandmother.

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Great great grandmother.

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Great great great grandmother
of ROM champions every generation down.

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There is nothing
this dog did not deliver for me.

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But you know what?

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She could not be fed in the same room
as another dog.

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I think I owed her that modicum of respect

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to give her privacy when she ate.

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So now let's talk about breeding programs

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and dog on dog resource guarding.

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If having dogs that never resource guard

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from each other
is of deep importance to you as a breeder.

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You need to make that a top priority
and select for it.

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As you can guess, I am in no way saying

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this should be your top priority.

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But I will say that resource guarding

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has a strong genetic component,
so if you don't like it,

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you really should select against it.

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The way it sorts out for me
in my breeding program

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when it comes to dogs, resource guarding

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against other dogs is this.

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I have a breed
that is notoriously difficult

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to run in packs,
and I've done a fair amount of rescue.

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00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,960
And I'll tell you, it's
just much easier to place dogs

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that don't resource
guard against other dogs.

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So with no doubt, lack of resource

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guarding against other dogs is a virtue.

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But as a breeder

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for me, I look at this particular trait

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more as a virtue to be bred for

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then something necessarily
to be selected against.

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So if I have a dog that can be fed

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with other dogs and never guards me or

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00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:42,080
my possessions, or chew objects
from any of the other dogs,

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that's more of an exceptional dog
that I would want to breed for that trait.

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I would want to breed that dog,
even if that dog didn't have

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other virtues,
that would be a virtue worth breeding for.

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In my opinion, in my breed.

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00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,080
But I would not exclude an

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otherwise virtuous dog
from my breeding program

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because they couldn't be fed
with other dogs.

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00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,360
To be clear here,

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00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:14,760
what I'm talking about
is resource guarding from other dogs.

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Okay? It's not dog aggression.

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These are two completely separate

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00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,080
things
that spring from different genetic wells.

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00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,920
And I'm not going to get into my position
on dog aggression

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except to say it's very different for me.

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00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,240
Dog aggression
is very different for me than a dog

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that will resource guard from another dog.

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So in sum

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I would say when it comes to anti resource
guarding protocols for puppies,

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for very young puppies
your best offense is a good defense.

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00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:56,440
Try and set things up early
on so those puppies never feel

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00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,440
the need to resource guard

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because it is genetically
controlled to a large extent

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and some of it is beyond your control,

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but it is my observation

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that there is a segment of dogs

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that may be genetically
could be predisposed to resource guard,

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00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,120
but if it's not triggered by early life
events,

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it will never emerge.

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00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,480
I don't think there's
a particularly effective

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00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,880
dog on dog resource
guarding protocol out there.

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00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,240
I do think it's something that's
controlled a great deal by genetics,

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and that becomes a decision tree
for you as a breeder.

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But you know, you can have an influence.

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And that's what I shared with you
in this podcast.

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00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,360
If you liked this podcast,

336
00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:54,160
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337
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338
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339
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340
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341
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342
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343
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Check them all out at puppyculture.com.

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00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,240
Well that's it for this time.

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00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,480
Thanks for listening. Bye bye.