247 - Calculation methods for fire resistance with Piotr Turkowski

Transcript

Why Calculate Fire Resistance Partnership Message From OFR Fire Resistance Without Furnace Tests Declarations Of Performance And EADs Fire Protection Products And Equivalency Eurocode 2 Methods For Concrete Critical Temperature For Steel Design Tables Versus Calculations In Practice Why Material Properties Break Assumptions Stickability And Fire Protection Failures Can Numerical Models Replace Tests Masonry Tables That May Be Unsafe Closing Thoughts And Machine Learning

WEBVTT 00:00:00.157 --> 00:00:00.787 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hello everybody. 00:00:00.787 --> 00:00:01.447 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Welcome to the fire. 00:00:01.447 --> 00:00:06.336 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>This week, uh, we're continuing the journey through the fire resistance. 00:00:06.336 --> 00:00:16.725 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>While last week we had, uh, Piotr Turkowski from I TB talking about the criteria of fire resistance, largely in context of furnace testing of specimens. 00:00:16.725 --> 00:00:24.146 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And this week, I'm once again joined by Piotr, but this time we are talking about calculation methods. 00:00:24.146 --> 00:00:30.117 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So any other way to establish fire resistance of an object other than furnace testing? 00:00:30.117 --> 00:00:31.527 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yes, they exist. 00:00:31.527 --> 00:00:36.722 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yes, it is potentially possible from calculation methods to. 00:00:36.722 --> 00:00:47.851 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Ized, sources, which just give you resistance per size of your specimen, up to advanced calculation methods and, um, perhaps numerical modeling. 00:00:47.851 --> 00:00:57.649 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>All of those can, to some extent, predict or give you, just give you the value of far resistance for your item. 00:00:57.649 --> 00:01:01.351 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>However, it comes with a lot of caveats and, the. 00:01:01.351 --> 00:01:02.795 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>More complex material. 00:01:02.795 --> 00:01:07.055 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>The more complex structures we go into, the more difficult this becomes. 00:01:07.055 --> 00:01:19.382 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>In this podcast episode, we try to go through this world and understand what it means to calculate fire resistance with different methods, the complexities that go into that, the interactions between the properties. 00:01:19.382 --> 00:01:22.284 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And the challenges that you may see. 00:01:22.284 --> 00:01:38.682 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh, we we mainly focus on concrete and steel, but, uh, in the end we, we have our time on masonry, which is a very interesting case in if you want to predict, uh, fire resistance of, of masonry structures, especially with concrete hollow blocks. 00:01:38.682 --> 00:01:41.427 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>But anyway, there's a lot of knowledge. 00:01:41.427 --> 00:01:43.387 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Inside a lot of complexity. 00:01:43.387 --> 00:01:50.257 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It's this world is way, way, way more difficult and challenging that I have initially thought it will be. 00:01:50.257 --> 00:01:51.781 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I hope you'll enjoy it. 00:01:51.781 --> 00:01:53.736 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Let's spin the intro and jump into the episode. 00:02:18.067 --> 00:02:22.296 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>The Fire Science Show podcast is brought to you in partnership with OFR Consultants. 00:02:22.296 --> 00:02:32.067 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>OFR is the UK's leading independent multi-award winning fire engineering consultancy with a reputation for delivering innovative safety driven solutions. 00:02:32.067 --> 00:02:41.295 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>we've been on this journey together for three years so far, and here it begins the fourth year of collaboration between the Fire Science Show and the OFR. 00:02:41.295 --> 00:02:58.723 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So far, we've brought you more than 150 episodes, Which translate into nearly 150 hours of educational content available, free, accessible, all over the planet without any paywalls advertisement or hidden agendas. 00:02:58.723 --> 00:03:05.712 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>This makes me very proud and I am super thankful to OFR for this long lasting partnership. 00:03:05.712 --> 00:03:21.592 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I'm extremely happy that we've just started the year four, and I hope there will be many years after that to come So big thanks, OFR for your support to the Fire Science show and the support to the fire safety community at large that we can deliver together. 00:03:21.592 --> 00:03:29.150 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And for you, the listener, if you would like to learn more or perhaps even become a part of OR, they always have opportunities awaiting. 00:03:29.150 --> 00:03:33.590 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Check their website@orconsultants.com And now let's head back to the episode. 00:03:34.282 --> 00:03:34.942 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hello everybody. 00:03:34.942 --> 00:03:38.872 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I am joined once again by my colleague from ITB, Dr. 00:03:38.872 --> 00:03:39.562 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Piotr Turkowski. 00:03:39.562 --> 00:03:39.741 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hey, 00:03:40.311 --> 00:03:40.790 <v Piotr Turkowski>Hello, Wojtek. 00:03:40.941 --> 00:03:41.570 <v Piotr Turkowski>Hello everyone. 00:03:42.307 --> 00:03:47.978 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I hope you've enjoyed our, uh, last week's session about, uh, fire fundamentals of fire resistance. 00:03:47.978 --> 00:03:53.800 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I, I have you once again for fire resistance, but this time you are not allowed to talk about furnaces. 00:03:54.219 --> 00:03:55.324 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yeah, perfect. 00:03:55.324 --> 00:04:00.939 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, I really enjoyed the last episode, uh, and, uh, I assume we'll move on to the calculation methods. 00:04:01.942 --> 00:04:04.431 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yes, that's, that's exactly what I would like to do. 00:04:04.431 --> 00:04:12.235 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So, um, we are in the privileged position of having a FAR testing laboratory in our, uh, home institution. 00:04:12.235 --> 00:04:13.134 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>ITB. 00:04:13.134 --> 00:04:24.673 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>But, uh, every day we meet people who want to assess fire resistance in one way or another, but without resourcing to, fire testing. 00:04:24.673 --> 00:04:25.903 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>One could call it costly. 00:04:25.903 --> 00:04:31.274 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I'm not sure if we're allowed to call it like that in here, but, uh, yeah, I agree. 00:04:31.274 --> 00:04:36.646 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It's costly, but, um, let's start with, with the, once again, far resistance, uh, definition. 00:04:36.646 --> 00:04:40.547 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Last time you said it doesn't exclude stuff beyond testing. 00:04:40.547 --> 00:04:40.887 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Right. 00:04:41.088 --> 00:04:47.004 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes, it doesn't, it is written with the, with a fire resistance test in mind. 00:04:47.004 --> 00:04:51.237 <v Piotr Turkowski>the new definitions, in the ISO standard, they are. 00:04:51.237 --> 00:05:00.357 <v Piotr Turkowski>Changing the bit terms, saying that the test specimen is actually not the real test specimen, but it's the object that you are assessing. 00:05:00.357 --> 00:05:03.927 <v Piotr Turkowski>So it's not necessarily linked to a physical object. 00:05:03.927 --> 00:05:07.107 <v Piotr Turkowski>So you can do it via calculations if you want to. 00:05:07.107 --> 00:05:12.990 <v Piotr Turkowski>indeed we have another mean to, to assess the fire resistance. 00:05:12.990 --> 00:05:18.060 <v Piotr Turkowski>However, it should always be noted how was it established. 00:05:18.060 --> 00:05:30.834 <v Piotr Turkowski>So if you, if you do the, the, the assessment, uh, with a furnace test, you, you'll most likely, say that you have this classification in accordance with the en N 13 5 0 1 dash two. 00:05:30.834 --> 00:05:37.803 <v Piotr Turkowski>you do it via calculation methods, then your fire resistance is Obviously, something a bit different. 00:05:37.803 --> 00:05:42.184 <v Piotr Turkowski>You, you do not apply a virtual cotton pad to assess integrity. 00:05:42.184 --> 00:05:54.278 <v Piotr Turkowski>So you do it with, Euro codes, for example, there are even standards for, for example, for steel structures where it's explicitly stated that you can do it with Euro codes. 00:05:54.278 --> 00:06:10.995 <v Piotr Turkowski>and then the, uh, ce uh, label that you'll have on your product, with the declaration of performance, you will state that my steel structure has say R 30, and that it was established with calculation method. 00:06:10.995 --> 00:06:11.656 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, 00:06:11.802 --> 00:06:12.093 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay. 00:06:12.196 --> 00:06:16.995 <v Piotr Turkowski>exactly this way that you're supposed to write it down in the declaration of performance. 00:06:16.995 --> 00:06:21.646 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's an EN 10 90 standard as far as, as far as I remember. 00:06:21.646 --> 00:06:22.629 <v Piotr Turkowski>there are, there are other ways. 00:06:22.922 --> 00:06:26.372 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>That, that's quite interesting because you, um, went ahead. 00:06:26.372 --> 00:06:33.536 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I want to ask about that if we approach it by the means of calculation or other methods to establish the fire resistance. 00:06:33.536 --> 00:06:56.516 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Is this just the knowledge that we gain or could you end up with a certificate or, or, you know, because being in the business inside, we know that, people in the end, our customers, what they want is not the knowledge, but the, the, the product marking something that allows 'em to put the product on the marking something, something that allows them to certify that this wall has the fire resistance of REI 30. 00:06:56.516 --> 00:07:15.245 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>When the fire brigade commissions the building, they can show them a paper that states that and no one is able to question that Is there a difference between the world of far testing through furnace as an experiment versus any other means in this final degree of the document that you, you receive? 00:07:15.596 --> 00:07:19.007 <v Piotr Turkowski>the final document, that is the, statement. 00:07:19.007 --> 00:07:23.855 <v Piotr Turkowski>That the manufacturer takes responsibility with for the, uh, 00:07:24.137 --> 00:07:24.427 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:07:24.730 --> 00:07:25.144 <v Piotr Turkowski>of, of 00:07:25.177 --> 00:07:25.466 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Fine. 00:07:25.466 --> 00:07:25.786 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:07:26.254 --> 00:07:27.725 <v Piotr Turkowski>is the declaration of performance. 00:07:27.725 --> 00:07:28.175 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes. 00:07:28.175 --> 00:07:47.812 <v Piotr Turkowski>How you get to that point is written in the harmonized standard or the EAD, and there are many harmonized standards and many European assessment documents, eads, which gives you the possibility to use euro codes or other calculation methods in order to establish the fire resistance performance. 00:07:47.812 --> 00:07:56.153 <v Piotr Turkowski>As I said, one of them for steel structures is the EEN 10 90 dash one or two, like that. 00:07:56.153 --> 00:08:00.002 <v Piotr Turkowski>It is explicitly written that you use euro codes. 00:08:00.002 --> 00:08:03.096 <v Piotr Turkowski>In order to do that, you do not have to do furnace test. 00:08:03.096 --> 00:08:10.382 <v Piotr Turkowski>There are other standards for prefabricated concrete elements, and they often give many options. 00:08:10.382 --> 00:08:12.038 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, as far as I remember, there are three. 00:08:12.038 --> 00:08:14.858 <v Piotr Turkowski>One of them is obviously the test. 00:08:14.858 --> 00:08:20.326 <v Piotr Turkowski>So it's, it's written like, do a classification in accordance with EN 13 5 0 1 dash two. 00:08:20.326 --> 00:08:26.237 <v Piotr Turkowski>So furnace test B, use for from Euro code for concrete. 00:08:26.237 --> 00:08:29.896 <v Piotr Turkowski>Option C use calculation methods from Euro code. 00:08:29.896 --> 00:08:32.216 <v Piotr Turkowski>so, so you have these options. 00:08:32.216 --> 00:08:36.700 <v Piotr Turkowski>Another example, very common one are metal anchors for concrete. 00:08:36.700 --> 00:08:42.261 <v Piotr Turkowski>For think that the first document was technical report, uh, 48 or something like that. 00:08:42.261 --> 00:08:45.682 <v Piotr Turkowski>Now it's an EAD with a way longer number, I can't remember it. 00:08:45.682 --> 00:08:54.494 <v Piotr Turkowski>But with that document, you have the option to do, do the test or do a calculation method that is not eurocode. 00:08:54.494 --> 00:09:05.471 <v Piotr Turkowski>It, it, it's a method given in that document on how to calculate the, fire resistance of that metal anchor 30, 60, 90, or 120 minutes. 00:09:05.471 --> 00:09:15.520 <v Piotr Turkowski>Sometimes it's, it's, it is as simple as multiplying the load bearing capacity by some factor, like 25% or 20% for given time period. 00:09:15.520 --> 00:09:19.421 <v Piotr Turkowski>But otherwise it, it, it, it's, it's more of a calculation method. 00:09:19.421 --> 00:09:32.682 <v Piotr Turkowski>So absolutely they are applicable, but, and in the end, manufacturer based on these documents, puts that value in a declaration of performance and he takes then responsibility for it. 00:09:32.682 --> 00:09:36.024 <v Piotr Turkowski>in my opinion, nobody should discuss it. 00:09:36.024 --> 00:09:43.823 <v Piotr Turkowski>Like it's, uh, the, the way the the CPR works is that the manufacturer claims the responsibility of the product. 00:09:43.823 --> 00:09:47.153 <v Piotr Turkowski>And then you have the designer or the contractor. 00:09:47.153 --> 00:09:55.508 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, that uses this product, uh, on site and, then he takes responsibility that he use that product correctly. 00:09:55.508 --> 00:09:56.107 <v Piotr Turkowski>So 00:09:56.335 --> 00:09:56.625 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:09:57.427 --> 00:10:00.847 <v Piotr Turkowski>if, uh, the manufacturer declared that that parameter at all. 00:10:00.847 --> 00:10:03.488 <v Piotr Turkowski>Or, or that he do it in other way. 00:10:03.735 --> 00:10:04.005 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay. 00:10:04.005 --> 00:10:08.716 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh, one sentence clarification for non-European listeners was EAD. 00:10:09.081 --> 00:10:13.057 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, so EAD it's a European assessment document. 00:10:13.057 --> 00:10:19.177 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's a document that is written by eta, which is a European organization for technical assessment. 00:10:19.177 --> 00:10:28.649 <v Piotr Turkowski>And, uh, this document gives the rules and shows how a European technical assessment should be written for given product. 00:10:28.649 --> 00:10:37.423 <v Piotr Turkowski>There were first, uh, 50 or 100 eads written, previously, uh, known as e tax. 00:10:37.423 --> 00:10:40.422 <v Piotr Turkowski>but now they've been converted to a Eads. 00:10:40.422 --> 00:10:46.871 <v Piotr Turkowski>And every product that doesn't have a harmonized standard can get an EAD. 00:10:46.871 --> 00:10:52.182 <v Piotr Turkowski>And in order to do it, a manufacturer has to go to a technical as assessment body. 00:10:52.182 --> 00:10:55.096 <v Piotr Turkowski>And, uh, say that he wants to write it and 00:10:55.139 --> 00:10:55.359 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yep. 00:10:55.486 --> 00:10:57.797 <v Piotr Turkowski>assessment body has to write it for free. 00:10:58.714 --> 00:10:59.014 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:10:59.177 --> 00:11:00.826 <v Piotr Turkowski>time, but they do it for free. 00:11:00.826 --> 00:11:07.397 <v Piotr Turkowski>And then this way they establish a kind of harmonized standard, so to say, 00:11:07.438 --> 00:11:14.398 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I, I, I think it's a fair, I think it's fair to say it's standard replacement for products that don't have harmonized standard. 00:11:14.398 --> 00:11:14.638 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:11:14.744 --> 00:11:15.739 <v Piotr Turkowski>That's the best definition. 00:11:16.129 --> 00:11:30.258 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>so, basically there's a, there, there, there's a technical reference document, a standard EAD, national, uh, assessment document, whatever that tells you whether it's fine or not to use these other methods in layer of, of fire testing. 00:11:30.258 --> 00:11:32.477 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And I assume product per product is different. 00:11:32.477 --> 00:11:46.244 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>What about products in which, like, I, I know it's really complicated, like spray motors, tumescent paint, like in, in, in those complex materials, In those, I'm not even sure if we have calculation methods. 00:11:46.244 --> 00:11:52.874 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Maybe, you know, you probably know better than I am, but do, but, uh, I think it's, it's very complicated to replace fire testing. 00:11:53.301 --> 00:12:03.121 <v Piotr Turkowski>That's a very good example that you've picked because yes, there are eads for sprayed mortars, for fire protective boards and intumescent coatings. 00:12:03.121 --> 00:12:07.004 <v Piotr Turkowski>And these eads, they only ask for a furnace test. 00:12:07.004 --> 00:12:27.320 <v Piotr Turkowski>there is a series of tests, EN 13 381, what, what they do, they do not give you a fire resistance class, uh, explicitly, but they calculate some parameters of the fire protection product that then can be used in order to establish a fire ance performance. 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:32.149 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, for example, for concrete, you do not get, uh, an explicit classification. 00:12:32.149 --> 00:12:38.570 <v Piotr Turkowski>When you apply 10 millimeters of that super spray, you'll get REI 240. 00:12:38.570 --> 00:12:38.990 <v Piotr Turkowski>No. 00:12:38.990 --> 00:12:45.110 <v Piotr Turkowski>What they do is they establish a parameter called equivalent thickness of concrete. 00:12:45.110 --> 00:12:57.769 <v Piotr Turkowski>So they, the, the result will be saying something like the 10 millimeters of that super spray for 240 minutes is equal to 60 millimeters of concrete. 00:12:57.769 --> 00:13:09.633 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, the way you will then use it If you have a reinforced concrete structure and it doesn't get the classification you'd want, then see what you are lacking off. 00:13:09.633 --> 00:13:16.173 <v Piotr Turkowski>If you are lacking the distance, the, the concrete cover for reinforcement or maybe thickness of the, of the element. 00:13:16.173 --> 00:13:25.682 <v Piotr Turkowski>And if you're lacking the, the concrete cover, say 30 millimeters, you are looking for a product that gives you this equivalent thickness of concrete of 30 millimeters. 00:13:25.682 --> 00:13:30.663 <v Piotr Turkowski>So that, so this 10 millimeters of super spray will be just, just fine. 00:13:30.663 --> 00:13:31.052 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes. 00:13:31.052 --> 00:13:31.442 <v Piotr Turkowski>Or e. 00:13:31.442 --> 00:13:32.283 <v Piotr Turkowski>E even better. 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:34.434 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>or, or one nanometer of magical spray. 00:13:34.434 --> 00:13:42.625 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh, but, uh, but why thickness of con, what is this proxy measure giving you in this case? 00:13:42.625 --> 00:13:44.424 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>What is it a proxy of? 00:13:44.424 --> 00:13:49.284 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Like, because it must be a proxy of, of minutes of fire resistance to be, to, to be honest. 00:13:49.500 --> 00:13:52.826 <v Piotr Turkowski>I, I, I wouldn't say it's a proxy of minutes or, or of time. 00:13:52.826 --> 00:13:59.495 <v Piotr Turkowski>This, this equivalent thickness of concrete, is a way to express, uh, concrete 00:14:00.727 --> 00:14:01.087 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay. 00:14:01.235 --> 00:14:02.405 <v Piotr Turkowski>a, a a as simple as that. 00:14:02.405 --> 00:14:14.529 <v Piotr Turkowski>When you look into a Euro code and you'll see that, uh, a column, for example, is the el, the element that is exposed usually to fire on all four sides, doesn't, it doesn't have quite big dimension. 00:14:14.529 --> 00:14:25.539 <v Piotr Turkowski>So when it's small, when it's exposed to four sites, it'll heat up very fast and you'll see that for high instance classes, you get insane amount of concrete cover that 00:14:25.772 --> 00:14:26.062 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay. 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:35.799 <v Piotr Turkowski>sane designer would do, because if you get something like 90 millimeters of concrete cover, then that concrete cover, concrete cover has problems to even stick to the reinforcement. 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:37.990 <v Piotr Turkowski>You have to use some intermediate meshes 00:14:38.052 --> 00:14:38.341 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:41.259 <v Piotr Turkowski>like that, just for the corrosion purposes. 00:14:41.259 --> 00:14:44.440 <v Piotr Turkowski>You need something like 25, maybe 30 millimeter. 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:51.816 <v Piotr Turkowski>one thing is that, uh, when you get that very high concrete cover, the concrete cover doesn't stick very well. 00:14:51.816 --> 00:14:59.916 <v Piotr Turkowski>That's first thing, but second thing, even more important, you are reducing the distance between the reinforcement. 00:14:59.916 --> 00:15:10.356 <v Piotr Turkowski>So if there's bending in the column and, the tensile, forces are carried by, by, by the reinforcement, you are virtually reducing the, the, the column size. 00:15:10.394 --> 00:15:10.474 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hmm. 00:15:10.897 --> 00:15:15.815 <v Piotr Turkowski>it, it doesn't have as much strength as it would have if the reinforcement was closer to the surface. 00:15:15.815 --> 00:15:23.336 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, it, it's way easier to make smaller concrete cover and then to replace the missing 50 or 70 millimeters. 00:15:23.336 --> 00:15:29.741 <v Piotr Turkowski>By some material that is so much better than concrete that it provides that fire protection 00:15:30.114 --> 00:15:30.193 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hmm. 00:15:30.312 --> 00:15:54.942 <v Piotr Turkowski>the way you assess it is you compare the temperature at a certain depth in the, in the element, a concrete slab or a concrete beam, depending on the type of the element, and you compare it with the temperature in unprotected element, and you see how much further you have to go in order to get the same temperature in the concrete, thus establishing this equivalent thickness of concrete. 00:15:55.114 --> 00:15:56.201 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh, I, I love this. 00:15:56.201 --> 00:16:02.874 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>let's do this once again and, and properly, uh, for the non-structural fire science business. 00:16:02.874 --> 00:16:09.486 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So If you could walk me through the process of calculating fire resistance for a concrete member? 00:16:09.486 --> 00:16:13.267 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It can be a column, and then walk me through the same process for a wall. 00:16:13.735 --> 00:16:14.076 <v Piotr Turkowski>Okay. 00:16:14.076 --> 00:16:15.605 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, uh. 00:16:15.605 --> 00:16:20.076 <v Piotr Turkowski>For concrete elements, we will most likely use Euro code two. 00:16:20.076 --> 00:16:30.355 <v Piotr Turkowski>So the EN 1992 dash one dash two standard, that standard gives, three methods of assessment of fire resistance. 00:16:30.355 --> 00:16:37.014 <v Piotr Turkowski>And, uh, usually this, the Discal calculation methods, they are all, uh, they're either one of the three. 00:16:37.014 --> 00:16:52.663 <v Piotr Turkowski>So the first one, the most complex one that we will definitely not use, will not use it because it's so complex and it requires such validation in the test that, in my opinion, is virtually impossible to use, which is the advanced calculation method. 00:16:52.663 --> 00:16:57.943 <v Piotr Turkowski>The advanced calculation methods they take into account the entire building. 00:16:57.943 --> 00:17:00.913 <v Piotr Turkowski>You do not do the calculations for one simple element. 00:17:00.913 --> 00:17:03.943 <v Piotr Turkowski>You do it for the entire building at the same time. 00:17:04.255 --> 00:17:08.394 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Are we talking about the previous Euro codes or the Euro codes in development? 00:17:08.739 --> 00:17:11.409 <v Piotr Turkowski>this one is actually already, uh, published, 00:17:11.665 --> 00:17:11.955 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>okay. 00:17:12.098 --> 00:17:13.058 <v Piotr Turkowski>the same in both. 00:17:13.375 --> 00:17:13.736 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Perfect. 00:17:13.736 --> 00:17:16.286 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah, I, I just, super necessary disclaimer. 00:17:16.286 --> 00:17:16.826 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Sorry. 00:17:16.826 --> 00:17:17.395 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Continue. 00:17:17.679 --> 00:17:17.888 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yeah. 00:17:17.888 --> 00:17:20.888 <v Piotr Turkowski>So it's a second generation of Euro codes and the first one as well. 00:17:20.888 --> 00:17:38.232 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, uh, so the advanced calculation methods, you will have, uh, most likely two models or maybe one, uh, coupled, uh, model that will, first assess the thermal terminal response of the entire structure, and then it'll assess the mechanical response of the entire structure. 00:17:38.232 --> 00:17:39.643 <v Piotr Turkowski>And, uh. 00:17:39.643 --> 00:17:49.355 <v Piotr Turkowski>everything in this, this method comes from the person that does it because there are no criteria, no explicit criteria given in Euro code on 00:17:49.452 --> 00:17:49.573 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hmm. 00:17:49.925 --> 00:17:51.246 <v Piotr Turkowski>is the structure safe. 00:17:51.246 --> 00:17:53.705 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, there's no limiting deflection. 00:17:53.705 --> 00:17:55.145 <v Piotr Turkowski>There's no limiting temperature. 00:17:55.145 --> 00:18:02.316 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's, it's basically zero one, uh, assessment of has my structure collapsed or didn't. 00:18:02.752 --> 00:18:03.853 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Is it only arc right here? 00:18:04.516 --> 00:18:10.816 <v Piotr Turkowski>well, interior, you can assess also also the insulation performance and the, and you will assume for concrete. 00:18:10.816 --> 00:18:13.260 <v Piotr Turkowski>the integrity is maintained. 00:18:13.260 --> 00:18:23.880 <v Piotr Turkowski>Unless of course you have some precast elements that are joint with, that consist of a joint panels and maybe some linear joints in between that, that can be tricky. 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.599 <v Piotr Turkowski>But when it's monolithic structure, you just assume the integrity is, 00:18:27.737 --> 00:18:28.037 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay. 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:40.920 <v Piotr Turkowski>But because of this complexity, even when you use standard fire for the entire analysis, because you're analyzing the entire structure, this is not exactly fires and specification. 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:43.440 <v Piotr Turkowski>This is fire safety engineering. 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:51.326 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, I even remember, European Commission Workshop that was held like 14 years ago. 00:18:51.326 --> 00:18:56.067 <v Piotr Turkowski>uh, I remember per Vassar, uh, presenting about. 00:18:56.067 --> 00:18:58.092 <v Piotr Turkowski>this approach in the Euro code. 00:18:58.092 --> 00:19:07.189 <v Piotr Turkowski>And, uh, he made, uh, some slides and in one on one of them we can see that, this is exactly also, also his faults, that this is fire safety Jing. 00:19:07.189 --> 00:19:08.209 <v Piotr Turkowski>This is not classification. 00:19:08.209 --> 00:19:12.722 <v Piotr Turkowski>You wouldn't use it get the REI classification. 00:19:12.722 --> 00:19:20.282 <v Piotr Turkowski>You would use it to obtain general, more global information about the performance of the structure in 00:19:20.420 --> 00:19:21.859 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Like load bearing capacity and fire. 00:19:22.442 --> 00:19:22.863 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes. 00:19:22.863 --> 00:19:29.156 <v Piotr Turkowski>then we get to a simpler method, which is called the simplified Calculation method. 00:19:29.156 --> 00:19:38.939 <v Piotr Turkowski>It used to be two methods in the previous edition of your code, of them is, uh, so-called the Isotherm 500 cent Degrees method. 00:19:38.939 --> 00:19:42.179 <v Piotr Turkowski>That is not present in the current edition of Eurocode. 00:19:42.179 --> 00:19:44.798 <v Piotr Turkowski>but I have to say I really like that method. 00:19:44.798 --> 00:19:47.949 <v Piotr Turkowski>I know it has its cons, but it was very simple. 00:19:47.949 --> 00:19:49.449 <v Piotr Turkowski>It was really nice to use. 00:19:49.449 --> 00:19:59.378 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, and the second one of them that is, uh, that was in the first generation and is also now in the second generation, is the method based on zones. 00:19:59.378 --> 00:20:09.278 <v Piotr Turkowski>The way you do it, uh, with the second method is, well, maybe I'll start with the first one, even though it's, uh, now, uh, being removed from the Euro code. 00:20:09.405 --> 00:20:09.865 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And missed. 00:20:12.011 --> 00:20:14.051 <v Piotr Turkowski>uh, if I may, uh, hello? 00:20:14.051 --> 00:20:19.603 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, voce, if you're listening from, Polytechnical ska, I know you don't like the method. 00:20:19.603 --> 00:20:20.833 <v Piotr Turkowski>I do, I do. 00:20:20.833 --> 00:20:22.542 <v Piotr Turkowski>uh. 00:20:22.542 --> 00:20:31.836 <v Piotr Turkowski>so, uh, in the Isotherm 500, uh, method, what you do is you do a thermal, transfer analysis. 00:20:32.153 --> 00:20:32.573 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Mm-hmm. 00:20:32.586 --> 00:20:44.046 <v Piotr Turkowski>you are basically heating up your element and you, you check how the isotope look you are looking, uh, exactly for one of them, which is 500 C degrees. 00:20:44.522 --> 00:20:50.222 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So a line that connects the dots with 500 degrees in your structure when you do heat transfer analysis. 00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:50.730 <v Piotr Turkowski>yes. 00:20:50.730 --> 00:20:54.330 <v Piotr Turkowski>And if it's a beam in bending, then both sides and the bottom of the 00:20:54.512 --> 00:20:54.573 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hmm. 00:20:54.871 --> 00:20:56.881 <v Piotr Turkowski>uh, is more than 500 C degrees. 00:20:56.881 --> 00:20:59.760 <v Piotr Turkowski>So you are removing that from the equation. 00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:07.050 <v Piotr Turkowski>Your, your cross section of the entire element was reduced by, let's say 40 millimeters on each side. 00:21:07.050 --> 00:21:07.230 <v Piotr Turkowski>If 00:21:07.462 --> 00:21:07.542 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hmm. 00:21:07.770 --> 00:21:14.217 <v Piotr Turkowski>calculation for something like 90 minutes, having that reduced your new cross section of concrete. 00:21:14.217 --> 00:21:17.576 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's a bit smaller, so it's also a bit weaker. 00:21:17.576 --> 00:21:22.462 <v Piotr Turkowski>and the steel temperature, you calculate exactly what it is for each rebar. 00:21:22.462 --> 00:21:29.888 <v Piotr Turkowski>So you will have the, the coronary rebars of let's say 650 cent degrees, maybe the one in the middle of a bit less. 00:21:29.888 --> 00:21:58.316 <v Piotr Turkowski>What you do then is apply, coefficient of strength reduction for material for steel, saying that, that my steel at 650 cent degrees, it's something like 40 to 35% of, uh, of its original strength and my concrete that was above 500 cent degrees has zero load bearing capacity, the one that has below has 100% capacity. 00:21:58.316 --> 00:22:00.273 <v Piotr Turkowski>This is the way that metal worked. 00:22:00.273 --> 00:22:05.910 <v Piotr Turkowski>The, the zone method is very similar, but is not so, 1 0 0 1. 00:22:05.910 --> 00:22:11.609 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's dividing this cross section of concrete into zones of smaller dimensions. 00:22:11.609 --> 00:22:18.089 <v Piotr Turkowski>So you'll have some zone that is, that on average has 970 degrees and that concrete has zero strength. 00:22:18.089 --> 00:22:33.210 <v Piotr Turkowski>You will have some zone that is maybe 700, 600 and it has some strength left, and then more so you are basically doing a more precise calculations, but more or less the idea is, is the same here. 00:22:33.737 --> 00:22:34.067 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>What do you know? 00:22:34.067 --> 00:22:35.747 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It failed when? 00:22:35.747 --> 00:22:40.734 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>For a span of a beam, the the loading will be higher than its capacity. 00:22:40.734 --> 00:22:42.115 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>How do you know it failed? 00:22:43.178 --> 00:22:45.097 <v Piotr Turkowski>So at the time, zero. 00:22:45.097 --> 00:22:56.093 <v Piotr Turkowski>Of, uh, fire of this virtual fire, uh, you calculate the resistance of the beam, the load bearing capacity of the beam, the bending resistance, uh, or 00:22:56.109 --> 00:22:56.400 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay, 00:22:56.542 --> 00:23:00.119 <v Piotr Turkowski>resistance, as if there is no heating whatsoever. 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:10.588 <v Piotr Turkowski>So all the values of, of strength of your materials they're not exactly the same as in a cold calculation, so to say, but they're very close to these 00:23:10.596 --> 00:23:13.050 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>but, but this, but this is not for the whole building. 00:23:13.050 --> 00:23:16.351 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It's for the design span and some design loads. 00:23:16.618 --> 00:23:19.040 <v Piotr Turkowski>this is for, particular elements. 00:23:19.040 --> 00:23:20.810 <v Piotr Turkowski>So you do not do it for the entire structure. 00:23:21.048 --> 00:23:21.337 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay? 00:23:21.441 --> 00:23:25.851 <v Piotr Turkowski>to do it separately for a beam, for a column, for a wall, floors, et, et 00:23:25.883 --> 00:23:26.363 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay. 00:23:26.750 --> 00:23:30.530 <v Piotr Turkowski>So it's, it is not a global analysis, it's a element analysis. 00:23:30.530 --> 00:23:32.030 <v Piotr Turkowski>So this way. 00:23:32.030 --> 00:23:36.184 <v Piotr Turkowski>It actually has some similarity to furnace testing because sub furnace 00:23:36.352 --> 00:23:36.622 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hmm. 00:23:37.654 --> 00:23:42.527 <v Piotr Turkowski>uh, 99.9%, of an element. 00:23:42.527 --> 00:23:46.429 <v Piotr Turkowski>And then, so, so at the time, zero, it has its strength. 00:23:46.429 --> 00:23:52.249 <v Piotr Turkowski>And then when it hits up, you get this cross-section being reduced more and more, 00:23:52.411 --> 00:23:52.830 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Mm-hmm. 00:23:52.909 --> 00:23:55.189 <v Piotr Turkowski>strength of materials being reduced more and more. 00:23:55.189 --> 00:24:04.847 <v Piotr Turkowski>And at some point, as the, as the, as the material, uh, performance is being reduced, the entire, bending resistance or sheer resistance of the element is also being reduced. 00:24:04.847 --> 00:24:08.883 <v Piotr Turkowski>And at some point you will meet, the resistance at the level of the load 00:24:09.049 --> 00:24:10.670 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Mm-hmm. 00:24:11.042 --> 00:24:19.883 <v Piotr Turkowski>But the load is also reduced in, in calculations, uh, with, uh, coefficient eta fi, we will, we, we can get back to it a bit later. 00:24:19.883 --> 00:24:21.410 <v Piotr Turkowski>a very important parameter. 00:24:21.410 --> 00:24:24.320 <v Piotr Turkowski>So at some point you'll meet uh, that value. 00:24:24.320 --> 00:24:39.503 <v Piotr Turkowski>And when you do, you declare the loss of flood bearing capacity, that that's the way you do it In general, Eurocode provide a framework of, let's say three so-called domains to do the calculations. 00:24:39.503 --> 00:25:00.590 <v Piotr Turkowski>So the, the domain that we've just discussed is the so-called strength domain the, the general equation for, for, for the domain states that, well the load bearing, uh, capacity of the element in fire, the design value of it after some time. 00:25:00.590 --> 00:25:09.257 <v Piotr Turkowski>60 minutes, 90 minutes, whatever it is, has to be greater than the actions on that structure in fire as well. 00:25:09.257 --> 00:25:11.926 <v Piotr Turkowski>And the design values as well after that time. 00:25:11.926 --> 00:25:12.497 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes. 00:25:12.497 --> 00:25:15.646 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, so it, it, it's, it's, it's as simple as that. 00:25:15.646 --> 00:25:22.150 <v Piotr Turkowski>and there's another, and another domain that is very often used for steel elements. 00:25:22.150 --> 00:25:24.099 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's a temperature domain. 00:25:24.099 --> 00:25:25.630 <v Piotr Turkowski>The temperature domain. 00:25:25.630 --> 00:25:30.784 <v Piotr Turkowski>I remember very famous quote uh, I, I saw on LinkedIn once, can't remember by who it was. 00:25:30.784 --> 00:25:31.983 <v Piotr Turkowski>Maybe it was Luke Biby. 00:25:31.983 --> 00:25:34.594 <v Piotr Turkowski>'cause uh, he would be very fond of 00:25:34.655 --> 00:25:35.226 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Look local. 00:25:35.226 --> 00:25:36.826 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Luke would never say something controversial. 00:25:38.007 --> 00:25:49.151 <v Piotr Turkowski>The, the temperature domain, basically stating that your critical temperature of the element has to be greater than the temperature of that element in fire. 00:25:49.151 --> 00:25:52.018 <v Piotr Turkowski>So what does it mean most easily 00:25:52.154 --> 00:25:54.134 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>now, now you have to explain the critical temperature. 00:25:54.567 --> 00:26:14.300 <v Piotr Turkowski>yeah, the critical temperature, it's a concept at some point in, in time when the element heats up to a certain temperature, which we'll call the, the critical temperature, the load bearing capacity of the element will be lower than the actions. 00:26:14.300 --> 00:26:19.304 <v Piotr Turkowski>it's, it's another way of expressing this strength domain. 00:26:19.304 --> 00:26:23.577 <v Piotr Turkowski>I will walk you through an example, and maybe this will be the easiest to, to understand. 00:26:23.577 --> 00:26:28.846 <v Piotr Turkowski>So imagine the, the strength of steel. 00:26:28.846 --> 00:26:36.104 <v Piotr Turkowski>in accordance with the Euro code, because in reality, it's, it's always a bit different than your Euro code, but we have to get some safe assumption. 00:26:36.104 --> 00:26:40.453 <v Piotr Turkowski>The, the strength of steel looks something like this. 00:26:40.453 --> 00:26:47.981 <v Piotr Turkowski>At the temperature of zero or 20 cent degrees, you have full 100% strength. 00:26:47.981 --> 00:26:56.967 <v Piotr Turkowski>Then throughout, temperatures of 100, 200, approximately to 250, 300 C degrees, nothing happens. 00:26:56.967 --> 00:26:59.487 <v Piotr Turkowski>The steel maintains full strength. 00:26:59.487 --> 00:27:11.519 <v Piotr Turkowski>I will already address yes, the, the modulus, the elastic modulus will be lower a bit, but the strength, the yield, yield, strength of steel is, uh, untouched. 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:15.538 <v Piotr Turkowski>Then at 300 cent degrees or 215. 00:27:15.538 --> 00:27:39.268 <v Piotr Turkowski>It'll start to decline it'll decline, to a level of something like 60% that original strength at about 500, 550 cent degrees, and then decline even more reaching zero after something like 900 centimes like that. 00:27:39.268 --> 00:27:47.016 <v Piotr Turkowski>So when you design a steel structure for 100% of its load bearing capacity, like 00:27:47.363 --> 00:27:49.823 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I cannot lose 1% of my load bearing capacity. 00:27:50.465 --> 00:28:01.800 <v Piotr Turkowski>yes, but what you'll do is you will apply that safety, that coefficient to the load, which is usually something like oh 0.65 or oh 0.7. 00:28:01.800 --> 00:28:05.769 <v Piotr Turkowski>if you don't want to make, calculations, you will apply one of these values. 00:28:05.769 --> 00:28:07.509 <v Piotr Turkowski>that value. 00:28:07.509 --> 00:28:12.473 <v Piotr Turkowski>Corresponds to something like 550 cent degrees. 00:28:12.976 --> 00:28:13.266 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay, 00:28:13.403 --> 00:28:13.884 <v Piotr Turkowski>Why? 00:28:13.901 --> 00:28:23.111 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>so, so you assume that you don't need a hundred percent strength in fire because the load of a hundred percent is like uncommon combination of stuff happening. 00:28:23.111 --> 00:28:26.246 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Wind, snow, people, materials inside, et cetera. 00:28:26.246 --> 00:28:28.316 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It's un unlikely it's gonna happen in fire. 00:28:28.316 --> 00:28:29.006 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Exactly. 00:28:29.006 --> 00:28:34.586 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So not, and the fi, we assume you would probably need 60% of the, of the Max. 00:28:34.586 --> 00:28:37.135 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Max, so that corresponds to that temperature. 00:28:37.719 --> 00:28:38.469 <v Piotr Turkowski>exactly that? 00:28:39.115 --> 00:28:39.175 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay. 00:28:39.253 --> 00:28:41.048 <v Piotr Turkowski>could, uh, less. 00:28:41.635 --> 00:28:41.875 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:28:41.888 --> 00:28:46.659 <v Piotr Turkowski>that your, uh, your structure wasn't, uh, utilized at 100%. 00:28:46.659 --> 00:28:48.189 <v Piotr Turkowski>Maybe it was only at 50%. 00:28:48.189 --> 00:29:02.469 <v Piotr Turkowski>So what you then, you, what you would do then is you would multiply oh 0.5 by oh point 65, getting something like oh 0.3, let's say, or maybe even less so, you do not even need 100%. 00:29:02.469 --> 00:29:04.239 <v Piotr Turkowski>You do not need 65%. 00:29:04.239 --> 00:29:06.219 <v Piotr Turkowski>You need only 30%. 00:29:06.219 --> 00:29:09.349 <v Piotr Turkowski>Of that strength of steel in fire. 00:29:09.372 --> 00:29:10.642 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Which could be like 700. 00:29:10.929 --> 00:29:11.409 <v Piotr Turkowski>yes. 00:29:11.409 --> 00:29:18.398 <v Piotr Turkowski>Then it gets to levels of 650, maybe even 700 C degrees, you usually don't go much further. 00:29:18.398 --> 00:29:22.719 <v Piotr Turkowski>Like, we stop at 700, 750, uh, max. 00:29:22.719 --> 00:29:28.571 <v Piotr Turkowski>There are some elements of, uh, cross section class four when, 00:29:29.123 --> 00:29:32.452 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I am, I'm not even gonna ask you for definition of class four con, just continue. 00:29:32.611 --> 00:29:36.211 <v Piotr Turkowski>I think that people who design steel structure know, know exactly what 00:29:36.288 --> 00:29:38.327 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh, I'm sorry, listeners, I failed you. 00:29:38.327 --> 00:29:38.538 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Like, 00:29:40.590 --> 00:29:49.621 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, elements is so, so in short, these elements will lose their load bearing capacity before steel loses its strength. 00:29:49.847 --> 00:29:50.208 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>okay. 00:29:50.280 --> 00:29:50.760 <v Piotr Turkowski>will. 00:29:50.867 --> 00:29:51.048 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>you. 00:29:51.151 --> 00:29:52.141 <v Piotr Turkowski>will get buckling. 00:29:52.141 --> 00:29:54.121 <v Piotr Turkowski>They will get some deformation. 00:29:54.121 --> 00:29:58.271 <v Piotr Turkowski>that that will happen faster than you will, than you lose the strength of steel. 00:29:58.271 --> 00:30:04.451 <v Piotr Turkowski>So you cannot allow that utilization level to be only, based on the steel strength. 00:30:04.451 --> 00:30:06.730 <v Piotr Turkowski>It has to take into account other factors. 00:30:06.730 --> 00:30:19.402 <v Piotr Turkowski>So another simple value to, to use it to use is, uh, you just assume that 350 cent degrees of the critical temperature be before anything starts happening with the steel, 00:30:19.942 --> 00:30:26.107 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>They, they are just more vulnerable to fire damage and, and, uh, you would just go conservative because you lose less of the 00:30:26.586 --> 00:30:26.826 <v Piotr Turkowski>there 00:30:26.833 --> 00:30:27.032 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>inherent. 00:30:27.336 --> 00:30:30.996 <v Piotr Turkowski>more, more vulnerable, vulnerable to load in cold, 00:30:31.272 --> 00:30:31.563 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay? 00:30:31.705 --> 00:30:32.486 <v Piotr Turkowski>cold design. 00:30:32.486 --> 00:30:36.776 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, uh, yeah, so you are, you are more on the safety side. 00:30:36.776 --> 00:30:39.553 <v Piotr Turkowski>So you see the, the higher the critical temperature, 00:30:40.170 --> 00:30:40.390 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yep. 00:30:40.873 --> 00:30:43.482 <v Piotr Turkowski>less of steel strength need. 00:30:44.089 --> 00:30:44.509 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Mm-hmm. 00:30:44.577 --> 00:30:53.097 <v Piotr Turkowski>as you said, three 50 when you're very conservative, 500 approximately when you do not do any, uh, calculations. 00:30:53.097 --> 00:30:58.959 <v Piotr Turkowski>And then if the utilization is not so great, it can be 600, 650, maybe 700. 00:30:58.959 --> 00:31:06.739 <v Piotr Turkowski>So this is the critical temperature and the steel element will heat up during fire, uh, very nicely, especially when it's unprotected. 00:31:06.739 --> 00:31:25.991 <v Piotr Turkowski>So when it's unprotected, you may get maybe something like 15 minutes of fire resistance, because, uh, and when it's quite massive, uh, it can get 50 minutes for very massive elements and for very low utilization levels. 00:31:25.991 --> 00:31:29.321 <v Piotr Turkowski>In theory, you can get something like 30 minutes. 00:31:29.321 --> 00:31:37.031 <v Piotr Turkowski>And this has also actually been confirmed because something like 10 years ago, we've had an eagle front robin on bare steel being. 00:31:37.031 --> 00:31:41.997 <v Piotr Turkowski>When there was no fire protection, the beam was made of HEB 300. 00:31:41.997 --> 00:31:43.646 <v Piotr Turkowski>So it's a very massive section. 00:31:43.646 --> 00:31:48.777 <v Piotr Turkowski>never use that for a beam, probably it's more for like, for a column, but it was used for a beam. 00:31:48.777 --> 00:31:51.626 <v Piotr Turkowski>The utilization was something like 20% only. 00:31:51.626 --> 00:31:57.032 <v Piotr Turkowski>and the beam got something like 20, uh, 28, 29 minutes in a test. 00:31:57.032 --> 00:32:00.512 <v Piotr Turkowski>And with the calculation method, it gets, uh, something very similar. 00:32:00.750 --> 00:32:03.015 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>is that the secret test in which we were the reference lab? 00:32:03.355 --> 00:32:03.894 <v Piotr Turkowski>maybe 00:32:04.342 --> 00:32:04.922 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It could be. 00:32:04.922 --> 00:32:05.561 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It could be 00:32:05.664 --> 00:32:06.355 <v Piotr Turkowski>wink, maybe. 00:32:06.442 --> 00:32:06.842 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>perhaps. 00:32:08.035 --> 00:32:08.349 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yeah. 00:32:08.349 --> 00:32:17.326 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, uh, uh, so yeah, so when you heat up that element, you get the standard fire curve, obviously, uh, for, for the classification. 00:32:17.326 --> 00:32:18.977 <v Piotr Turkowski>So after 30 minutes. 00:32:18.977 --> 00:32:25.426 <v Piotr Turkowski>in, in a, uh, with a standard fire, you have something like 834 cent degrees. 00:32:25.426 --> 00:32:32.176 <v Piotr Turkowski>when you have a massive element, it'll get a delay because of its inertia to, to heat up, you'll get less. 00:32:32.176 --> 00:32:33.557 <v Piotr Turkowski>You will have something like 700. 00:32:33.557 --> 00:32:44.207 <v Piotr Turkowski>So if your critical temperature was above that, you'll get 30 minutes and even easier for 15 minutes, because after 15 minutes it's something like 740 or something like that. 00:32:44.207 --> 00:32:46.336 <v Piotr Turkowski>So it's quite easy, but not much. 00:32:46.336 --> 00:32:47.446 <v Piotr Turkowski>Not, not much more. 00:32:47.446 --> 00:33:05.305 <v Piotr Turkowski>Maybe for external element, if you use external fire curve, which, uh, caps at 670 cent degrees, you can get some R 30 dash ef dash external fire because we use the same, uh, designations here in the Euro codes as well 00:33:05.757 --> 00:33:05.997 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yep. 00:33:06.025 --> 00:33:09.736 <v Piotr Turkowski>in the furnace testing but, but you, you can't get much more. 00:33:09.736 --> 00:33:18.114 <v Piotr Turkowski>So what you do is you use fire protection and in order to use the fire protection, uh, you basically have to do the, do the test. 00:33:18.114 --> 00:33:21.384 <v Piotr Turkowski>I will not explain how the test exactly works. 00:33:21.384 --> 00:33:25.134 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, we have a three day long course for it. 00:33:25.134 --> 00:33:29.273 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, uh, I, I really can't squeeze it into five minutes. 00:33:29.642 --> 00:33:30.092 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>no problem. 00:33:30.092 --> 00:33:32.873 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>let's finish the, the concrete beam, because that's where we started. 00:33:32.873 --> 00:33:41.692 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I assume the, the steel deviation was to understand the rebar temperatures and the, the role of zones in the, in the second, uh, simplified calculation method. 00:33:41.692 --> 00:33:44.482 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Let, let, let's finish on that and then we can venture into funny things. 00:33:44.482 --> 00:33:44.512 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I. 00:33:44.788 --> 00:33:49.979 <v Piotr Turkowski>we'll have to get back to steel, uh, again, but, uh, but okay, let's finish the concrete beam. 00:33:49.979 --> 00:33:58.218 <v Piotr Turkowski>so the concrete beam has this strength domain, uh, where you compare the, the resistance and the actions and. 00:33:58.218 --> 00:34:02.161 <v Piotr Turkowski>Temperature domain that we have for most likely steel. 00:34:02.161 --> 00:34:07.585 <v Piotr Turkowski>And there's time domain, which is this global analysis for advanced calculation methods. 00:34:07.585 --> 00:34:19.393 <v Piotr Turkowski>The equation very simple is something like the for which the structures maintain its performance in fire is more than the time required of it. 00:34:19.393 --> 00:34:28.092 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, so basically if you're ana analyzing structure for, let's say 60 minutes your global analysis, it can't collapse or, 00:34:28.255 --> 00:34:28.476 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Mm. 00:34:28.748 --> 00:34:31.778 <v Piotr Turkowski>misbehave for at least 60 minutes. 00:34:31.778 --> 00:34:32.108 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes. 00:34:32.215 --> 00:34:32.436 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yep. 00:34:32.436 --> 00:34:33.715 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Global ac r sets. 00:34:33.715 --> 00:34:33.956 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:34:33.956 --> 00:34:36.157 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And the third method from from Eurocodes. 00:34:36.338 --> 00:34:39.045 <v Piotr Turkowski>And the third method is the tabulated data. 00:34:39.503 --> 00:34:40.072 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>What do you mean? 00:34:40.126 --> 00:34:40.786 <v Piotr Turkowski>data. 00:34:40.786 --> 00:34:59.987 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's a very simple set of tables Um, the, the, the, the simplest one is for non-no bearing walls, which tells you if you do a non-no bearing wall and it has to, uh, maintain, Fiberon class of 20, then it has to be at least of thickness 120 millimeters. 00:34:59.987 --> 00:35:02.418 <v Piotr Turkowski>That's it, that it's like the only rule. 00:35:02.418 --> 00:35:07.938 <v Piotr Turkowski>And if it's supposed to be for, let's say 60 minutes, then it's, uh, 80 millimeters or so. 00:35:08.418 --> 00:35:10.364 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>if we have a table for that, why would anyone calculate? 00:35:10.653 --> 00:35:18.483 <v Piotr Turkowski>because these tables are conservative at, at least for concrete, uh, they are, they're a bit conservative. 00:35:18.483 --> 00:35:24.951 <v Piotr Turkowski>They are based on tests mostly, some based on test and, calculation methods. 00:35:24.951 --> 00:35:29.719 <v Piotr Turkowski>They don't show all uh, possibilities. 00:35:29.719 --> 00:35:33.927 <v Piotr Turkowski>They are very often, at a hundred percent utilization level. 00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:34.539 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Mm-hmm. 00:35:34.586 --> 00:35:47.052 <v Piotr Turkowski>will give you option for, uh, full utilization or maybe two options for let's say 50% and 100% In the second generation for columns, we got way more. 00:35:47.052 --> 00:35:51.192 <v Piotr Turkowski>'cause now it's not only a hundred percent, but there are actually four levels. 00:35:51.192 --> 00:35:55.730 <v Piotr Turkowski>So it's nice, but in general it's very conservative and very simple. 00:35:55.730 --> 00:36:11.237 <v Piotr Turkowski>And you'll find some, uh, some buildings or some, some, some situations where you really need these 10 millimeters less, or maybe you need, this cross section a bit smaller or maybe this concrete cover a bit smaller. 00:36:11.237 --> 00:36:20.597 <v Piotr Turkowski>I don't know if I can say, but you probably remember one of the, uh, tall buildings, uh, near Metro Street, Toka, one mentioned the name. 00:36:20.597 --> 00:36:36.527 <v Piotr Turkowski>There are many high rise buildings, but there was one very specific where they were really fighting for every millimeter of thickness of the floors because they wanted to get as many floors as possible, and they were very limited with the reaction forces that they could apply to the elements below. 00:36:36.829 --> 00:36:38.059 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>by the weight of the building. 00:36:38.059 --> 00:36:38.599 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>That's it. 00:36:38.791 --> 00:36:39.601 <v Piotr Turkowski>so that's it. 00:36:39.601 --> 00:36:44.161 <v Piotr Turkowski>Sometimes, sometimes it's really, uh, these 10 millimeters, they, they adapt. 00:36:44.161 --> 00:36:47.581 <v Piotr Turkowski>When you have 30 stories, they give you an extra story. 00:36:47.864 --> 00:36:53.402 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>A, a follow up question to all of those methods, how much do you need to know about the material, like. 00:36:53.402 --> 00:36:55.181 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It is not like concrete. 00:36:55.181 --> 00:37:12.012 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Universally, you have different types of different strengths of concrete, like vastly different types of concrete out there, and I assume for other materials you also have different types of materials, so, so how much you need to know about the material itself, when you want to do the test and where you get the knowledge, 00:37:12.418 --> 00:37:16.757 <v Piotr Turkowski>Well, uh, probably, you do not need to know much. 00:37:17.659 --> 00:37:17.960 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>okay? 00:37:18.137 --> 00:37:21.226 <v Piotr Turkowski>code is very simple in, uh, in this application. 00:37:21.226 --> 00:37:23.445 <v Piotr Turkowski>It gives one model of concrete. 00:37:23.445 --> 00:37:33.289 <v Piotr Turkowski>There are some tiny deviations based on the type of aggregate maybe, but they give you one, one formula to feed them all, and 00:37:33.346 --> 00:37:33.766 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Mm-hmm. 00:37:34.188 --> 00:37:35.329 <v Piotr Turkowski>doesn't fit them all. 00:37:35.329 --> 00:37:40.797 <v Piotr Turkowski>And uh, I remember when doing a research for my PhD, concrete is everywhere. 00:37:40.797 --> 00:37:47.427 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, there, there are so many models of concrete, even for the thermal performance of concrete. 00:37:47.427 --> 00:37:54.010 <v Piotr Turkowski>Now not even saying about the strength of it, but just for the thermal conductivity, they couldn't get consensus. 00:37:54.010 --> 00:38:01.246 <v Piotr Turkowski>So what we've got with the second generation is, like, like basically we used to have two terminal conductivity lines. 00:38:01.246 --> 00:38:06.197 <v Piotr Turkowski>One was so-called lower terminal conductivity, and one, the, the second one was higher. 00:38:06.197 --> 00:38:12.530 <v Piotr Turkowski>for the 15 years that we've waited for the second generation, they couldn't figure out which one to use. 00:38:12.530 --> 00:38:20.880 <v Piotr Turkowski>So now they drew a, a line that, uh, for the first 160, uh, 60 some degrees or so is the higher value. 00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:27.329 <v Piotr Turkowski>And then it connects with a straight line with the, with the lower thermal conductivity boundary. 00:38:27.329 --> 00:38:34.273 <v Piotr Turkowski>So we have something that is not physical, but let's say for calculation purposes it works. 00:38:34.273 --> 00:38:38.503 <v Piotr Turkowski>but it doesn't look like, like it came from tests. 00:38:38.503 --> 00:38:40.873 <v Piotr Turkowski>Like it, like you've actually measured these values. 00:38:40.873 --> 00:38:42.523 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's, it's, uh, some kind of 00:38:42.731 --> 00:38:47.686 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh, something that ans Lo can write about in 10 years about how it happened. 00:38:47.686 --> 00:38:48.815 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Sorry, continue. 00:38:49.233 --> 00:38:52.893 <v Piotr Turkowski>yeah, so, so the less, you know, the easier it is to use these methods 00:38:53.554 --> 00:38:54.125 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay. 00:38:54.242 --> 00:39:00.416 <v Piotr Turkowski>the, the more you know, uh, the, the more you start to wonder, what will the outcome actually be, 00:39:00.507 --> 00:39:02.952 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Any more complex materials like fire protection materials? 00:39:03.563 --> 00:39:04.672 <v Piotr Turkowski>ah, very complex. 00:39:04.672 --> 00:39:06.893 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, but just finishing off the, 00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:07.210 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:39:07.882 --> 00:39:36.923 <v Piotr Turkowski>'cause concrete properties will depend on basically everything on the type of cement, the type of aggregate, the size of the aggregate, the cement to water ratio, the additives that you'll use, uh, polypropylene fibers content may be, some other, uh, additives, uh, like ashes are really good in Increasing the, the concrete grade, but not so good in fire. 00:39:36.923 --> 00:39:51.876 <v Piotr Turkowski>are so different that when it comes to tunnels and testing of concrete, for tunnels, for spalling, which is one of the adopted, uh, criteria, um, there is no simple rule. 00:39:51.876 --> 00:40:08.974 <v Piotr Turkowski>Each concrete has to be tested separately and there is no exchange of data, let's say between tunnels, to the point that if your aggregate comes from two different sites, your, you are obliged to do the test for each site separately. 00:40:08.974 --> 00:40:12.407 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, uh, yeah, that, that's concrete. 00:40:12.407 --> 00:40:19.367 <v Piotr Turkowski>Fire protection is, uh, is another material that is very complex and very, uh, different in its performance. 00:40:19.367 --> 00:40:22.565 <v Piotr Turkowski>So I, I, I want to get back now to steel. 00:40:22.565 --> 00:40:32.548 <v Piotr Turkowski>Because still, uh, on one hand, in order to get the virus and specification, you, you have to test the performance of the product steel sections. 00:40:32.548 --> 00:40:41.188 <v Piotr Turkowski>And then you get the famous tables where you have section factor design, temperature, and then a values of required thickness of fire protection. 00:40:41.188 --> 00:40:48.536 <v Piotr Turkowski>But the Euro code itself has a way to calculate the temperature of steel that is protected. 00:40:48.536 --> 00:40:50.552 <v Piotr Turkowski>There is a model for it. 00:40:50.552 --> 00:40:57.510 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's not very hard to It's probably something like 15 minutes in, in Axl and, and, and you get it. 00:40:57.510 --> 00:41:05.807 <v Piotr Turkowski>The only problem is that you, you need to get the thermal conductivity of that fire protection material, and the specific heat. 00:41:06.425 --> 00:41:08.045 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>As a, as a function of temperature. 00:41:08.447 --> 00:41:09.557 <v Piotr Turkowski>as a function of temperature. 00:41:09.557 --> 00:41:10.007 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes. 00:41:10.007 --> 00:41:12.677 <v Piotr Turkowski>'cause if you use the values from 20 C degrees, it's. 00:41:12.851 --> 00:41:13.391 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Have fun. 00:41:13.413 --> 00:41:14.882 <v Piotr Turkowski>Not worth much. 00:41:14.882 --> 00:41:15.362 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes. 00:41:15.362 --> 00:41:20.813 <v Piotr Turkowski>every material changes its properties with the temperature, especially when they lose moisture. 00:41:20.813 --> 00:41:28.302 <v Piotr Turkowski>They will, uh, some material like mineral wool, they will tend to get their thermal conductivity up. 00:41:28.302 --> 00:41:30.552 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, uh, it's worse. 00:41:30.552 --> 00:41:32.762 <v Piotr Turkowski>I mean, it's conducting heat more. 00:41:32.762 --> 00:41:36.126 <v Piotr Turkowski>some materials will get lower values. 00:41:36.126 --> 00:41:47.282 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, some because of the moisture content will get, uh, so-called, uh, moisture plateau or very high specific heat that represents that moisture. 00:41:47.282 --> 00:41:52.681 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, in the material at around 100 C degrees for gypsum material, you get two peaks. 00:41:52.681 --> 00:41:55.577 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, so yeah, the material is everywhere. 00:41:55.577 --> 00:42:01.503 <v Piotr Turkowski>And, and not even starting with intumescent coating on how to, uh, how to describe these where, uh. 00:42:01.503 --> 00:42:12.262 <v Piotr Turkowski>Well, you start with let's say, maybe one millimeter of that coating, and during test or during fire, it'll expand 50, maybe 100 times. 00:42:12.262 --> 00:42:17.485 <v Piotr Turkowski>So you end up with, let's say 100, uh, uh, of that material. 00:42:17.485 --> 00:42:20.275 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, and the properties change change a lot. 00:42:20.275 --> 00:42:42.956 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, so there are ways to calculate these values, but they all start with tests, so you need them I've seen some people try to, to apply these methods and, uh, and prove that the material, allows to, assess the, the entire element in a particular fi class. 00:42:42.956 --> 00:42:53.744 <v Piotr Turkowski>But there is one thing that is really difficult and that I would personally never, never take responsibility for, is, uh, the stickability of the material. 00:42:53.744 --> 00:43:00.494 <v Piotr Turkowski>a very difficult thing for many products to maintain stickability in fire. 00:43:00.494 --> 00:43:06.253 <v Piotr Turkowski>what you assess in this test is also stickability. 00:43:06.461 --> 00:43:10.842 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>You mean how well it's able to stick to the place where it's attached. 00:43:11.068 --> 00:43:16.257 <v Piotr Turkowski>stick form, cracks, detach, maybe partially detached everything. 00:43:16.530 --> 00:43:17.309 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Stay in place. 00:43:17.565 --> 00:43:21.958 <v Piotr Turkowski>ev everything, then goes under the so-called stickability correction factor. 00:43:21.958 --> 00:43:29.525 <v Piotr Turkowski>and if it's 1.0, says that, okay, deflection doesn't influence the stickability of that product. 00:43:29.525 --> 00:43:33.605 <v Piotr Turkowski>It will stay in place if it, if it form cracks, they don't matter and so on. 00:43:33.605 --> 00:43:42.949 <v Piotr Turkowski>But if that factor is lower and typically it is lower, then it says that something is happening with the product. 00:43:42.949 --> 00:43:49.393 <v Piotr Turkowski>You can imagine when we were talking about the, the deflection that the limiting deflection of elements last time. 00:43:49.393 --> 00:43:52.333 <v Piotr Turkowski>These deflections are gigantic, like 00:43:52.534 --> 00:43:52.755 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yep. 00:43:52.842 --> 00:43:55.213 <v Piotr Turkowski>centimeters deflection for a concrete slab. 00:43:55.213 --> 00:43:56.143 <v Piotr Turkowski>That is insane. 00:43:56.143 --> 00:44:04.213 <v Piotr Turkowski>So imagine you have a very stiff board applied to that concrete member, and then it deflects 40 centimeters. 00:44:04.213 --> 00:44:04.782 <v Piotr Turkowski>Well. 00:44:04.782 --> 00:44:06.222 <v Piotr Turkowski>break. 00:44:06.222 --> 00:44:06.643 <v Piotr Turkowski>If, 00:44:06.764 --> 00:44:07.005 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yep. 00:44:07.483 --> 00:44:10.213 <v Piotr Turkowski>maybe it'll detach, maybe it'll collapse fully. 00:44:10.893 --> 00:44:12.489 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Or, or just expose a part of the structure. 00:44:13.092 --> 00:44:21.038 <v Piotr Turkowski>and for steel, you, you, you can expose only a tiny part of it and it'll lose the load brain capacity and in, in this place. 00:44:21.038 --> 00:44:24.998 <v Piotr Turkowski>And, uh, then it'll gradually collapse, uh, the entire element. 00:44:24.998 --> 00:44:28.442 <v Piotr Turkowski>um, for sprayed mortar, you will get cracks. 00:44:28.442 --> 00:44:32.072 <v Piotr Turkowski>Maybe you will get some partial detachment of the material. 00:44:32.072 --> 00:44:36.599 <v Piotr Turkowski>or maybe it'll not stick at all if there is no reinforcing mesh in it. 00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:46.289 <v Piotr Turkowski>So there are many issues that, and many things that can happen to that fire protection during that, this deflection that will influence it performance. 00:44:46.289 --> 00:44:52.454 <v Piotr Turkowski>It is all summarized in that thickness of concrete for, for concrete elements. 00:44:52.896 --> 00:44:53.016 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hmm. 00:44:53.085 --> 00:44:59.684 <v Piotr Turkowski>When you assess it for steel, it is in the correction factor that is applied to the thermal data. 00:44:59.684 --> 00:45:05.715 <v Piotr Turkowski>So the tables you get already include this phenomena that will happen during fire. 00:45:05.715 --> 00:45:10.155 <v Piotr Turkowski>So it is, if the material falls off, it's not the end of the world. 00:45:10.155 --> 00:45:18.554 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's just that it'll shorten or it'll reduce the performance, but it can still be useful in some places. 00:45:18.554 --> 00:45:32.324 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, but you have to know this, you, you cannot just assume that, yeah, I will mix some cement in some gypsum and maybe I will add some magic component, mix it with water, apply it to my element, and it'll all work. 00:45:32.324 --> 00:45:33.405 <v Piotr Turkowski>No, it'll not. 00:45:33.405 --> 00:45:35.284 <v Piotr Turkowski>Most likely it'll not. 00:45:35.284 --> 00:45:36.724 <v Piotr Turkowski>uh. 00:45:36.724 --> 00:45:38.449 <v Piotr Turkowski>The deflection is one part. 00:45:38.449 --> 00:45:42.168 <v Piotr Turkowski>Even the shape of the steel section is very important. 00:45:42.168 --> 00:45:56.626 <v Piotr Turkowski>the times when we were using the previous edition of the method the previous edition of the method for sprayed mortars required the testing of two hollow sections, a square tube, and a circular tube. 00:45:56.626 --> 00:46:12.565 <v Piotr Turkowski>There were so many sprayed mortars and intumescent coatings that had problems to maintain stickability these shapes that they were only classified for, so-called INH section. 00:46:12.565 --> 00:46:20.155 <v Piotr Turkowski>So open sections like I-P-E-H-E-B and so on, and couldn't be used for, uh, with hollow elements. 00:46:20.155 --> 00:46:21.264 <v Piotr Turkowski>They just couldn't be used. 00:46:21.264 --> 00:46:23.545 <v Piotr Turkowski>Let's get back to that interes coating. 00:46:23.545 --> 00:46:29.431 <v Piotr Turkowski>Imagine you have a, uh, you have a circular hollow sections of section of diameter of let's say. 00:46:29.431 --> 00:46:30.976 <v Piotr Turkowski>millimeters, 00:46:31.242 --> 00:46:31.663 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Mm-hmm. 00:46:32.085 --> 00:46:35.896 <v Piotr Turkowski>You apply one millimeter of coating, it expands 100 times. 00:46:35.896 --> 00:46:48.778 <v Piotr Turkowski>You get suddenly the internal diameter at which we applied the coating was, uh, that diameter of 60 millimeters, but now it's 100 plus 60 plus 100. 00:46:48.778 --> 00:46:49.679 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's two 60. 00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:51.445 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's way, way more. 00:46:51.445 --> 00:47:00.291 <v Piotr Turkowski>So the material cannot, expand uniformly, or it'll expand, but there will be cracks in between the, the portions of the materials. 00:47:00.291 --> 00:47:11.630 <v Piotr Turkowski>only way to assess it is through testing, but when you do, you will get enough data that maybe then you can start using these euro code equations. 00:47:11.630 --> 00:47:15.606 <v Piotr Turkowski>Keeping in mind the behavior of the, of the material from the test, but 00:47:15.643 --> 00:47:15.932 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:47:16.565 --> 00:47:23.885 <v Piotr Turkowski>only because you've assumed perfect stickability and no changes to the thermal conductivity during heating. 00:47:24.773 --> 00:47:25.043 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay. 00:47:25.043 --> 00:47:28.474 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh, let's assume I have a black belt in numerical methods. 00:47:28.474 --> 00:47:34.864 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Am I allowed to use some advanced computer modeling for, for this type of assessments as well? 00:47:34.864 --> 00:47:38.494 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Does it fall into your advanced calculation method or. 00:47:38.871 --> 00:47:44.025 <v Piotr Turkowski>It'll most likely, uh, fall under advanced calculation methods. 00:47:44.025 --> 00:47:47.822 <v Piotr Turkowski>And on one hand, they are allowed in the Euro code. 00:47:47.822 --> 00:48:01.358 <v Piotr Turkowski>On the other hand, you have very general statements in, in the Euro codes, telling you only what to do, that you should know what you're doing, that you should validate your models in testing, but they would not allow you. 00:48:01.358 --> 00:48:08.913 <v Piotr Turkowski>As far as I know, I'm not an legal expert and I can imagine all types of legal, uh, discussions here. 00:48:08.913 --> 00:48:17.862 <v Piotr Turkowski>In my opinion, they do not form resistance classification that is equivalent to what is required currently by the law. 00:48:17.862 --> 00:48:27.701 <v Piotr Turkowski>it's here in Poland or many, or many other European countries, this, this advanced calculation, models, they can be used with standard fire. 00:48:27.701 --> 00:48:30.731 <v Piotr Turkowski>But if you're going that far, you will go even further. 00:48:30.731 --> 00:48:30.880 <v Piotr Turkowski>You 00:48:30.958 --> 00:48:31.177 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hmm. 00:48:31.240 --> 00:48:32.440 <v Piotr Turkowski>the natural fire model. 00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:35.260 <v Piotr Turkowski>You will see what is exactly happening in that building. 00:48:35.353 --> 00:48:36.677 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So just little burning fire. 00:48:37.331 --> 00:48:39.610 <v Piotr Turkowski>yeah, and you will not get it from one person. 00:48:39.610 --> 00:48:48.824 <v Piotr Turkowski>You will get, uh, a team of experts that will discuss it, and you will do it not for a household or an office building. 00:48:48.824 --> 00:49:13.706 <v Piotr Turkowski>You would do it for a very important, uh, or very expensive buildings where, you actually can argue why you can use them and why you should maybe be able to save some, uh, millions because When you do, it's most likely because of, uh, finance issues you and you want to save money on fire protection. 00:49:13.706 --> 00:49:25.021 <v Piotr Turkowski>you know, the way our prescriptive rules are given is they very often re require fire safety equipment, uh, beyond fire protection. 00:49:25.021 --> 00:49:27.990 <v Piotr Turkowski>They will ask you for sprinklers. 00:49:27.990 --> 00:49:32.762 <v Piotr Turkowski>They will ask you for, maybe some smoke controls for alarms. 00:49:32.762 --> 00:49:34.429 <v Piotr Turkowski>many, many other things. 00:49:34.429 --> 00:49:39.764 <v Piotr Turkowski>And as we know from the the previous talk, they're not included in an assessment of fire resistance. 00:49:39.764 --> 00:49:50.684 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes, the, the beam that we are assessing for fire resistance can be submerged in water, buried underground, no combustible materials within a hundred meters from the element 00:49:50.876 --> 00:49:51.525 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Doesn't matter. 00:49:51.764 --> 00:49:52.483 <v Piotr Turkowski>doesn't matter. 00:49:52.483 --> 00:49:54.014 <v Piotr Turkowski>Standard fire somehow. 00:49:54.635 --> 00:49:55.054 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:49:55.054 --> 00:49:57.400 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I love it, especially in airports when you design for like. 00:49:57.400 --> 00:49:59.974 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>50 meters of open space underneath it. 00:49:59.974 --> 00:50:04.505 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>We've once calculated it with other pi, uh, that you needed. 00:50:04.505 --> 00:50:16.329 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Like, if I recall correctly, it was like three trucks filled with furniture one on top of another to, to get something like standard curving, like 30 meter tall airport, which is quite interesting thing to do. 00:50:16.329 --> 00:50:31.385 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Um, I mean, tha thank you p for, for, uh, showing me this, this methods, I think it's very interesting and especially it spans from something as simple as I have a, a table in Euro code that tells me what's my thickness of, of fire protection and I'm done. 00:50:31.385 --> 00:50:39.759 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>or, or that tells me what's the fire resistance and I'm done up to extremely complicated methods where you have to know so, so many intrinsic details of your. 00:50:39.759 --> 00:50:48.583 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Materials and structure and, and whatever you're having up to even assimilating the whole response of entire structure, that's actually quite complicated. 00:50:48.583 --> 00:50:49.393 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Engineering. 00:50:49.393 --> 00:50:53.293 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So the span of those methods is, is in the end quite insane. 00:50:53.293 --> 00:50:58.364 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And in the end you also get the same rating, which I kind of find ridiculous after all this. 00:50:58.516 --> 00:50:58.827 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes. 00:50:58.827 --> 00:51:05.192 <v Piotr Turkowski>But the that, uh, as we discussed in the, in the beginning, uh, well, it, it, it, it has to be allowed. 00:51:05.192 --> 00:51:05.952 <v Piotr Turkowski>It, it, 00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:08.083 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I, I, I mean, it falls into conservatism. 00:51:08.083 --> 00:51:12.793 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It, it is, it's, it's a discussion of conservatism, like how much you can save by doing. 00:51:12.793 --> 00:51:16.423 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It's simpler with the assumption that you're probably gonna use more. 00:51:16.976 --> 00:51:18.717 <v Piotr Turkowski>But if we still have time, I'd like 00:51:18.764 --> 00:51:19.034 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Yeah. 00:51:19.407 --> 00:51:20.817 <v Piotr Turkowski>touch just one more topic, 00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:21.318 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hmm. 00:51:21.443 --> 00:51:24.628 <v Piotr Turkowski>because for steel, you will, uh, okay. 00:51:24.628 --> 00:51:35.365 <v Piotr Turkowski>Right now we get this R 15 and, uh, maybe, uh, there will be, cases where, the, the, the fire reasons will be assessed only with calculations. 00:51:35.518 --> 00:51:35.938 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Mm-hmm. 00:51:36.101 --> 00:51:49.856 <v Piotr Turkowski>They should be treated as if somebody carried out the test, especially regarding that harmonized standard that explicitly allows you to, we have concrete for which, uh, well, it's concrete. 00:51:49.856 --> 00:51:55.556 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's very easy to design elements out of it for 120 minutes. 00:51:55.556 --> 00:51:57.206 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, for four hours. 00:51:57.206 --> 00:51:58.166 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's a bit more tricky. 00:51:58.166 --> 00:52:06.264 <v Piotr Turkowski>But still, you take the effort to do it before you cast the elements, you can, uh, it's achievable without any fire protection. 00:52:06.512 --> 00:52:07.012 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Oh my God. 00:52:07.012 --> 00:52:08.092 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>They're going for masonry. 00:52:08.454 --> 00:52:10.025 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes, I am. 00:52:10.025 --> 00:52:10.230 <v Piotr Turkowski>I am 00:52:10.592 --> 00:52:10.811 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Ah, 00:52:11.262 --> 00:52:17.742 <v Piotr Turkowski>I am now energized because my paper was accepted and I'm, I, okay. 00:52:17.742 --> 00:52:18.012 <v Piotr Turkowski>I don't 00:52:18.119 --> 00:52:18.380 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>it is. 00:52:18.380 --> 00:52:19.300 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It is a, it is a good paper. 00:52:19.300 --> 00:52:20.980 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So you go for it. 00:52:21.943 --> 00:52:28.403 <v Piotr Turkowski>thank you dear co-author, who helped me very much with it, with the insanely low amount of time we had to prepare it. 00:52:28.403 --> 00:52:32.588 <v Piotr Turkowski>But really for masonry, we do not have advanced calculation methods. 00:52:32.588 --> 00:52:37.568 <v Piotr Turkowski>I mean, we have, but they're unusable because they require more testing than five sense testing. 00:52:37.568 --> 00:52:46.094 <v Piotr Turkowski>We used to have simplified calculation methods, but they were so, so unusable, not because they were difficult, because they were. 00:52:46.094 --> 00:52:52.443 <v Piotr Turkowski>I dunno if I can say shit, but they really were, and from the very beginning everybody was saying that. 00:52:52.443 --> 00:52:54.994 <v Piotr Turkowski>So now they are gone, they're gone from the Euro code. 00:52:54.994 --> 00:52:56.824 <v Piotr Turkowski>We are only left with tabulated data. 00:52:56.824 --> 00:53:05.764 <v Piotr Turkowski>The tabulated data that, that have national annexes in France saying, well, it's really nice you had them, but you know, you can't use them here. 00:53:05.764 --> 00:53:19.443 <v Piotr Turkowski>The tabulated data that got like 90 page long national annex in Germany that uh, you know, said the same, like really nice set of tables, but you know, we have our, our own in Netherlands. 00:53:19.443 --> 00:53:40.418 <v Piotr Turkowski>What they also say, you know, not so useful these tables, it all depends on the material, but for concrete masonry, for mass, especially for the elements of group two, where you have openings in these, uh, elements, uh, which look basically like a, a concrete frame with a rip in, in the middle. 00:53:40.418 --> 00:53:46.159 <v Piotr Turkowski>The second generation of eurocodes gives you some insane values of fire resistance. 00:53:46.159 --> 00:53:52.880 <v Piotr Turkowski>Like you can get REI 240 with a wall of 14 centimeter thickness. 00:53:52.880 --> 00:53:54.860 <v Piotr Turkowski>This is unheard of. 00:53:54.860 --> 00:53:59.480 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's even from the conductivity point of point of view. 00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:15.614 <v Piotr Turkowski>Impossible this, if that wall was full of concrete, not only three ribs connected with some, uh, webs and shells, you, you, you couldn't get, the en enough thermal, uh, thermal insulation to get that classification. 00:54:15.614 --> 00:54:18.675 <v Piotr Turkowski>Maybe for E not for ei. 00:54:18.675 --> 00:54:21.489 <v Piotr Turkowski>so yeah, we wrote that paper. 00:54:21.489 --> 00:54:29.769 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, we've presented results of 15 fire resistance tests that we've carried out over the last 20 years, something like that. 00:54:29.769 --> 00:54:30.402 <v Piotr Turkowski>And. 00:54:30.402 --> 00:54:36.867 <v Piotr Turkowski>None of these cases we've met what the new Euro code tells you that you are actually getting. 00:54:36.867 --> 00:54:40.599 <v Piotr Turkowski>So I'm talking about mass concrete masonry here. 00:54:40.599 --> 00:54:44.920 <v Piotr Turkowski>I would really strongly advise caution when using them. 00:54:44.920 --> 00:54:46.809 <v Piotr Turkowski>are unsafe. 00:54:46.809 --> 00:54:53.769 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's not only our, our opinion, uh, we found many papers written before us that stated the same. 00:54:53.769 --> 00:54:58.960 <v Piotr Turkowski>They give unsafe assumption of the material properties, of the behavior of the material. 00:54:58.960 --> 00:55:00.202 <v Piotr Turkowski>Just don't use them. 00:55:00.202 --> 00:55:01.193 <v Piotr Turkowski>Please, please don't. 00:55:01.193 --> 00:55:11.552 <v Piotr Turkowski>For other materials like, Autoplays, aerated concrete, or maybe for Cate, they are more in line with what we get in tests, uh, for ceramics. 00:55:11.552 --> 00:55:22.994 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, it, it's, it's also close, but I, I know that the manufacturers of these elements, they do prefer to have their own testing, just to be sure, because sometimes they're on the safe side. 00:55:22.994 --> 00:55:25.275 <v Piotr Turkowski>Sometimes they on, on the, uh, uns unsafe side. 00:55:25.275 --> 00:55:36.927 <v Piotr Turkowski>So, what I wanted to say, in short to not, to not make it much longer, are some materials concrete where you can calculate it and be pretty confident in your calculations. 00:55:36.927 --> 00:55:38.456 <v Piotr Turkowski>Even for steel structures. 00:55:38.456 --> 00:55:49.039 <v Piotr Turkowski>Unprotected steel structures now, would now requirement of R 15 here in Poland, you can also use calculations and I'm also pretty confident that it'll work. 00:55:49.039 --> 00:55:50.806 <v Piotr Turkowski>Just one or two 00:55:50.938 --> 00:55:51.059 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Hmm, 00:55:51.436 --> 00:56:00.893 <v Piotr Turkowski>we've carried out another test of unprotected steel the manufacturer calculated the viruses to be like 16 minutes, and we've obtained 18. 00:56:00.893 --> 00:56:03.833 <v Piotr Turkowski>So really perfect result. 00:56:03.833 --> 00:56:05.153 <v Piotr Turkowski>But for masonry. 00:56:05.153 --> 00:56:06.382 <v Piotr Turkowski>Oh, please. 00:56:06.382 --> 00:56:08.614 <v Piotr Turkowski>It's like, just forget that 00:56:08.731 --> 00:56:09.021 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>the, the, 00:56:09.094 --> 00:56:10.295 <v Piotr Turkowski>codes for, for masonry. 00:56:11.391 --> 00:56:12.621 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>the, the link is in the show notes. 00:56:12.621 --> 00:56:15.802 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>You can read and, uh, I, I, but it's not published yet. 00:56:15.802 --> 00:56:17.601 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I still hope we can turn it around right. 00:56:17.601 --> 00:56:18.887 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>With these papers and stuff. 00:56:19.719 --> 00:56:19.940 <v Piotr Turkowski>The, 00:56:20.007 --> 00:56:20.126 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I. 00:56:20.135 --> 00:56:23.525 <v Piotr Turkowski>the official English version is already being published. 00:56:23.525 --> 00:56:28.625 <v Piotr Turkowski>Well, now it is up to every country to create, uh, national 00:56:28.867 --> 00:56:29.586 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Alliance. 00:56:29.824 --> 00:56:38.135 <v Piotr Turkowski>uh, because all these tables are, uh, are claimed to be NDPs, so national dependent parameters, so they can all be changed like they used to be. 00:56:38.135 --> 00:56:51.905 <v Piotr Turkowski>so at least that, and I really hope, uh, I've already wrote with, uh, after the, our, our paper paper was published, I already wrote to our standardization committee that here is the paper you've asked for. 00:56:51.905 --> 00:56:58.159 <v Piotr Turkowski>Now, please revise the tables at least for concrete masonry because of simply safety reasons. 00:56:58.159 --> 00:56:58.548 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes. 00:56:58.548 --> 00:56:59.778 <v Piotr Turkowski>Nothing more to say. 00:56:59.778 --> 00:57:04.759 <v Piotr Turkowski>They are, they are, they're unsafe the way they are, uh, in, in the Euro code right now. 00:57:05.016 --> 00:57:05.617 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Fantastic. 00:57:05.617 --> 00:57:05.827 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Good. 00:57:05.827 --> 00:57:15.097 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh, thank, thank you so much for taking us to the beautiful world of structural foreign engineering again, and, uh, this time with, uh, the calculation methods. 00:57:15.097 --> 00:57:18.516 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And I think, uh, perhaps one day we should do a full masonry episode. 00:57:18.516 --> 00:57:20.077 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>That could be potentially fun. 00:57:20.764 --> 00:57:23.344 <v Piotr Turkowski>We didn't touch one, uh, one material, which is 00:57:23.572 --> 00:57:23.581 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>no, 00:57:24.155 --> 00:57:24.574 <v Piotr Turkowski>Yes. 00:57:24.574 --> 00:57:24.965 <v Piotr Turkowski>But I 00:57:25.192 --> 00:57:25.521 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>no, no. 00:57:25.521 --> 00:57:26.961 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>You're not allowed to talk about them right here. 00:57:27.425 --> 00:57:28.114 <v Piotr Turkowski>exactly. 00:57:28.114 --> 00:57:34.097 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, but I, I really, uh, I, I'm looking forward for your episode on timber. 00:57:34.097 --> 00:57:36.557 <v Piotr Turkowski>Like you, you've already had few. 00:57:36.557 --> 00:57:49.637 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, but I, I, I would really like to hear more about timber from an expert about also the second generation of Euro code because it changes everything about the CLT, the Charing of the materials. 00:57:49.637 --> 00:57:53.074 <v Piotr Turkowski>Now we have many layers, like everything is different. 00:57:53.074 --> 00:57:56.523 <v Piotr Turkowski>So I would really love to hear about it. 00:57:56.523 --> 00:57:59.224 <v Piotr Turkowski>Uh, if, if, if I may make this, 00:57:59.451 --> 00:58:00.501 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I, I take this request. 00:58:00.501 --> 00:58:02.931 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I'll, I'll find one That, that, that's gonna be a good one. 00:58:02.931 --> 00:58:03.590 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Okay. 00:58:03.590 --> 00:58:03.920 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Thank you. 00:58:03.920 --> 00:58:05.030 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Thank you Kurt, so much. 00:58:05.030 --> 00:58:06.739 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And yeah, nice day, man. 00:58:07.047 --> 00:58:08.518 <v Piotr Turkowski>Have a good day too to you. 00:58:08.518 --> 00:58:09.628 <v Piotr Turkowski>Thank you all. 00:58:09.628 --> 00:58:12.507 <v Piotr Turkowski>Thank you for having me again, and uh, have a great day. 00:58:12.507 --> 00:58:13.492 <v Piotr Turkowski>All of you listeners. 00:58:13.670 --> 00:58:14.269 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And that's it. 00:58:14.269 --> 00:58:15.019 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Thank you for listening. 00:58:15.019 --> 00:58:19.219 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I hope you've enjoyed this conversation on how to calculate fire resistance. 00:58:19.219 --> 00:58:33.585 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I mean, it would've be beautiful if we just had table ice methods for all materials and all kinds of solutions, but as Piot said, if you would like to do that, you probably would end up, uh, having more far tests than just. 00:58:33.585 --> 00:58:37.789 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>The number of tests you need to establish for resistance of them by fire testing. 00:58:37.789 --> 00:58:39.731 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So that, that's an interesting, problem. 00:58:39.731 --> 00:58:54.775 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>One thing Piot has not mentioned, because it's not part of the current paradigm of calculating the fire resistance was machine learning and, Perhaps the future methods of predicting those properties of, uh, building partitions. 00:58:54.775 --> 00:59:00.655 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I think this is something growing, this is something potentially quite interesting. 00:59:00.655 --> 00:59:07.826 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And actually with the complexities we have, machine learning could fit a nice role as an additional tool. 00:59:07.826 --> 00:59:11.065 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>However, uh, hard for me to see how we could have, um. 00:59:11.065 --> 00:59:21.065 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Let's say, uh, a compliant standard, compliant neural network or, or validated, uh, models for, for this particular need. 00:59:21.065 --> 00:59:23.900 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>It, it's probably still a lot of, a lot of work. 00:59:23.900 --> 00:59:28.161 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh, ahead of the fire community to reach to that point. 00:59:28.161 --> 00:59:30.590 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>But, um, I think we will eventually get there. 00:59:30.590 --> 00:59:39.960 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And, uh, for now as we have the revisions, the new generations of Euro codes coming out, we're getting more and more new models, new methods, new. 00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:47.945 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Possibilities to, to calculate far resistance, and I hope all the fire engineers will be able to, to use those for their benefit. 00:59:47.945 --> 00:59:55.565 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>And, uh, yeah, also see that far testing is not going away, which, uh, perhaps is good use for, for my laboratory. 00:59:55.565 --> 01:00:03.030 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh, in general, we need more data anyway if we want to have, uh, machine learning models in the future. 01:00:03.030 --> 01:00:05.911 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>So fire testing is here to stay. 01:00:05.911 --> 01:00:08.101 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Um, that would be it for today's episode. 01:00:08.101 --> 01:00:09.960 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I hope you've enjoyed this conversation. 01:00:09.960 --> 01:00:11.101 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I hope you've learned something new. 01:00:11.101 --> 01:00:18.724 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I've learned a lot of new things, uh, from my office colleague, even though we've worked together for many, many years and I've seen those tests. 01:00:18.724 --> 01:00:19.114 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Uh. 01:00:19.114 --> 01:00:20.480 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Firsthand. 01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:26.416 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>I still learn, uh, about this and I find this quite a fascinating part of fire science. 01:00:26.416 --> 01:00:28.215 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Anyway, that would be for today. 01:00:28.215 --> 01:00:29.536 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Thanks for being here with me. 01:00:29.536 --> 01:00:30.016 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Cheers. 01:00:30.016 --> 01:00:30.346 <v Wojciech Wegrzynski>Bye.

247 - Calculation methods for fire resistance with Piotr Turkowski

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