From Seat Filler to Stellar Award Winner w/ Vashawn Mitchell

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Speaker 1: Calling all my sweeties to the forefront.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, Christo and this is the Keeping Positive Sweetish Show.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back Sweeties.

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Speaker 2: This season, we are talking about impact, not the number of likes or the number of followers, but that deep down legacy level of impact that leads with pure intention, the intention that changes lives, that shifts rooms and plant seeds and breaks generational curses. Because it's one thing to be seen, but it's another thing to make an impact and leave a lasting legacy. Today's guest is someone whose voice has literally shifted atmospheres and lifted spirits around the world. He is a worship leader, a songwriter, a visionary, and the man behind some of the most powerful anthems in gospel music. For nobody greater to turn it around for me. But Sean Mitchell doesn't just sing. He ministers, and whether you've heard him in the pews or on your playlist or during a moment when you needed to be reminded of who you are, you felt his impact.

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Speaker 1: His family.

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Speaker 2: Please give a warm welcome to for Sean Mitchell. What's going on.

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Speaker 3: For Sean, Glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: Happy to have you.

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Speaker 2: When the team said that we were going to have you on. I was so excited. I love your music, so I was super excited to sit down and talk to you. We never met since our first time, so we get to know each other to night. Absolutely, Yes, So tell me a little about you started the church. You are from Chicago, born and raised Chicago, left the South Side for Sunny La.

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Speaker 1: Tell me that journey and how you got there.

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Speaker 4: So you know, growing up in Chicago, I was always around gospel music. Yes, you know, Opportunity Walker to Thomas with Thomas Wiffield and all the great skill who have been through there. I became attract to gods some music at an early age. It's something I wanted to do, but I didn't know if I was good enough to be honest, really, yeah, so why when I was younger, So many others did it better than me, But I said, I didn't know my lane, so I was trying to be everybody else.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know who I was, So it took me a while.

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Speaker 4: Studying the industry and studying how to write and write a song and how to deliver a song.

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Speaker 3: I don't run like some of the people. I don't do all.

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Speaker 4: These things, so I had to find my lane, and it took me a while to find my lane. But once I found it, you know, I begin to not only hear from God, but like mastering my own lane, you know, and not compare myself to nobody else. So it took me a while, but I finally got there.

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Speaker 1: Well, you got there. You definitely got there.

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Speaker 2: It's funny you said that because you sound like me. When I talked to my manager Wes, He's always pushed me to do music.

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Speaker 1: I can get into guy, get in the studio, and I have this.

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Speaker 2: I guess it would be an insecurity when it comes to scene because I don't run like everybody does, and.

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Speaker 1: I want to, but my voice just doesn't do it, and I'm like, why can I do that?

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Speaker 2: So like even taking voice lessons and trying to find ways to do it in my own way, but now finding my own lane. Like you said, it's funny, I've never heard anybody else say that. I felt the same way.

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Speaker 4: It was the best thing to do when I found my own lane. I can only compare myself to me, and that became the easiest path in this music industry.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. So you became a minister at the age of twenty.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, well, I minised the music at the age of twenty.

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Speaker 1: That minister of music.

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Speaker 2: At the age of twenty, What like, what was it like taking that on at such a young age, because that's that's still pretty young.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I wasn't ready. I actually I wrote it a little book and said I wasn't ready. That's what it's called. I was about nineteen and going on twenty, and the Ministry Music had been fired, and now me and the pastor was on the escalator going somewhere. He said, can you talk it to me the department? I said, yeah, I didn't know what I was doing. I've never done it before. All I know is I could teach a song and I could write a song. So basically that was the beginning of me learning. So I quickly became the sun and student to many mentors because at twenty I did not know what I was doing and I did not want to touch what was God's incorrectly. So you know, I was able to get up onto some great mentors at the time, and I believe if it wasn't for them, probably would have would not have made it. Yeah, because it was a big task to take. You know, the church was about five thousand strong, three locations, four choirs, three praise teams.

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Speaker 3: It was yeah, some thinking it.

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Speaker 2: Is like a church like I grew up in with like maybe like one hundred members and like minus of music is like a pretty easy job. But no, this was that's a big undertaking. Yeah at twenty years old. Wow, So what were some of the roadblocks and things that you had to learn along the way when you got into that role.

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Speaker 4: Well, one of them, and I'm probably get in trouble for playing, is that the pastor was a musician. Oh and he's you know, fingering. Yeah, So basically we often clashed because I wanted to do the new school and he had to learn the old school. That was the one of the biggest roadblocks that I believe I overcame once I got to know him and he got to know me as well. That we kind of walked together for ten years, you know together but also taking on as the minister music of a church who had a legacy of music already, so I felt like I was stepped in some big shoes absolutely that were hard to feel. So it was time, like I said before, to kind of create my own lane. So ten years later, when I left. Those who came behind me had to step in my shoes, and.

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Speaker 3: Those shoes at that time.

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Speaker 2: At that time, absolutely I can imagine that being a big task.

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Speaker 1: You talked about mentors that helped you make it.

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Speaker 2: Who are some of the people that you looked up to and that helped guide you through that season?

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Speaker 3: Definitely. Byron Cage.

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Speaker 4: At the time, Byron Cage was the minister music of New Birth Atlanta. Yeah, he's also our ministry music of Pull Gospel as well. At the same time, Yeah, I was under Full Gospel, So I learned from him, and then Kathy Taylor Brown or Kathy Taylor out of Houston, Texas at the time, she was a great person to learn up under as well, and they took them under their wing. And actually it's the reason why I actually end up leaving Chicago years later, because he recommendmentted me for a position somewhere else, And that was the beginning of my career and the beginning of Nobody Greater.

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Speaker 3: Once I took that step to say.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, well let's talk about Nobody Greater.

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Speaker 2: When you did that song, did you have any idea of how big it was gonna be? We played it before we started rolling and everybody here knows the song. Did you imagine that it would be that big and take you to all the places it's taken you?

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Speaker 3: I had no clue.

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Speaker 4: Basically I was I was recording what what what? I what I heard God's say, you know, and and the things that I want to be too deep. But at the time, somebody else was supposed to record the song. Just I know it was supposed to be for me and to recorded. Yeah, somebody was supposed to record the song, and I asked for it, and the writers the writer was like, well, I write.

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Speaker 3: Something else for you. I was like, okay, cool, so okay.

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Speaker 4: So, but two weeks before the recording, they got a call that the other other label wanted all the published and all this of that, and if you're from my Lena, you know uncle Maurice col Pepper. Uncle Maurice said give me to Sean. He wanted to record it anyway, and basically Darius foke. That's when he gave us the version of Nobody Greater that recorded two weeks before the recording recorded that night.

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Speaker 3: I didn't know it would do with it.

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Speaker 4: It did, but it felt different that night as we released the sound, you know, and and I tell people all around the world that I'm glad God chose me to carry a sound that's bigger than me because of the sound that people sing all over the world, different languages, different cultures.

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Speaker 3: It changed atmospheres. I could never do that.

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Speaker 4: It just chose me to carry it to Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I love that, you know that, because sometimes I feel, especially in this Christian culture, we forget that it's not about us, you know. And I love that you haven't lost sight of that, because I can imagine just even the exposure of traveling the world and hear it in different languages, you can sometimes forget.

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Speaker 1: It's easy to get caught up in like, oh my God, I did this.

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Speaker 2: I did this, But understand no, I'm just a vessel and this is God.

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Speaker 1: That's amazing.

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Speaker 2: I would love to like I can't imagine like the energy and the spirit in that room that night, it was.

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Speaker 3: It was something I will always remember.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I recorded many times before that, right, but this one night, this one song changed my career, changed my life.

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Speaker 3: It changed my reach.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, in.

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Speaker 4: Seven minutes basically like it shifted the atmosphere. But it also answered the prayer that I've been praying for a long time. A lot of people don't know that. Right before I recorded Nobody Greater a year before that, I was a seat filler at Stell Awards and the seat fiellers where you sending somebody see till they coming. So but that year Richard small Wood sing on the second half of the show and he never came back out, so I sat in his seat the whole night.

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Speaker 3: So I was giving a glimpse of what will happened for me a year and a half later, I want to do it. I had my own seat, my own little face on that and.

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Speaker 1: Did you take a picture I did. Yeah, take that moment.

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Speaker 4: And just just to go from a seat filler to a six time winner in two years, God was proving himself. You know absolutely what I said and what I showed you will come to pass, but when you're ready for it.

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Speaker 3: Yes, when I wanted I wasn't ready.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it.

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Speaker 3: I would have took God to the wrong places. I know it.

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Speaker 4: When I wanted it, I wasn't ready. But I'm glad he did it for me when I was ready.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Take me to that journey and what that was like from going from c Fieller to six time winner after that, what what are these like?

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Speaker 1: What did it feel like?

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Speaker 2: Did you ever have like imposter syndrome or like, wait, is this really happening right now?

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Speaker 1: Like I was just filling in a seat two years ago?

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Speaker 2: What was that that time like in that transformation like for you?

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Speaker 4: You know what? It was surreal even sitting in the show, because know where I come from and understanding that I served my way up, I didn't see my way up.

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Speaker 3: So basically.

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Speaker 4: I served my pastor, I served my fellowship, I served my my people, and and and God honored that. It was still surreal to see that, not that we do this forwards, right, but to see that the people I looked up to, the people I followed, and Linda Adams and Dona mon Clerk and leaving cc wings and and then uh, they're all saying for Sean Mitchell.

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Speaker 3: It was it was really crazy.

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Speaker 4: And then for my Artist of the Year award was given by CCS, so you know, almost lost it, almost lost it, but it was surreal.

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Speaker 1: Drag me up to the stage like.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, that's that's a video clip I look at all the time, just me doing like this. But but yeah, It was sur real, but it was definitely great that those and at that time I wouldn't even consider my peers. People say that my peers, but at that time, I consided those who paved the way. Yes, those who I've walked behind, who I've walked after?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, who said You're next?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Who you studied? Say you study the great Like those are the greats? You know? You name Elanda and Donnie and CC.

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Speaker 2: I was Alabasta Box is like one of my favorite songs of hers and my mom used to play it all the time growing up.

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Speaker 1: And it wasn't until probably.

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Speaker 2: Maybe two or three years ago I played it again or it came up on the playlist and I was in my bathroom.

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Speaker 1: I just started bawling because now that I've lived, I understand you weren't there. Now he found me.

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Speaker 3: I don't turn the show, and because.

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Speaker 2: My God it you know, and and it's funny. It's like, just live long enough and you'll understand the goodness of God. And so to have those greats be the ones calling your name and giving you that award, I know that was a beautiful moment. Yeah, speaking of award shows, we just had the BT Awards. I was there last week and there's a big uproar in the Christian community. Don't take that deep breath about glow really down pretendency. So I love me some glow, get a glow. I love her. But she won her and Kirk one that the Gospel Song of the Year award, and even she was like what I think everybody was, look confused, But so much of the Christian gospel music community has spoken out about it.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that?

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Speaker 2: And how I do like the way that we've bridged the gap between secular and gospel music because what it does is I think we all pretty much are rooted from the church, and when people go secular route or go to the gospel route and then they come together, it reminds the secular of you know what I'm saying, the foundation, you know.

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Speaker 1: So it's a way to bridge that gap. But how do you feel about.

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Speaker 4: I think we should continue to break bridge the gap. I don't blame Gloriala, not one bit. Gloria Hallelujah, uh, not one bit. I believe that, you know, because of the criteria she was was due to win, because of you know, how she ended up on the ballot, and things of that sort. I will say something else that others won't say, is that I think, as a protector of gospel genre in the name of doctor Bobby Jones, we have to kind of create some type of of of family atmosphere that positions what is gospel and then what is urban gospel, orbavorary gospel, so we can have those keep the bridging the gap, but also don't delete gospel that keep. It's probably one of the first times I want to say, I think Yolanda received it, Kirk Donnie.

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Speaker 3: It's not like it happened all the time.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to be the beginning of a deleting the gospel artists from you know.

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Speaker 2: I feel that, Yeah, that's so true. And I love all types of music, you know. As I continue to grow in my faith, I do try to pay attention to what I'm listening to listening to because it can stir up things in me that I may be trying to.

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Speaker 1: Get rid of, you know. So I try to be mindful of the music that I take in.

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Speaker 2: But I support all creatives, you know, and I champion them.

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Speaker 1: So I get it.

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Speaker 2: But it's I got so many phone calls the next day from like people, my peers in the gospel.

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Speaker 3: I know you what I said.

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Speaker 1: Right that bath you took was so funny.

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Speaker 4: He was like, We've just been talking about this like all week, and it's really it's to me, it's really eye open it for us that if we're going to have gatekeepers of gospel, we don't have those who want to preserve gospel music, then now it's the right time to have a conversation to say, you know, what is gospel, what is contemporary gospel? What is hip hop gospel? Realistically? To be honest, this is a bet these hip hop show. Yes, let's be very clear at the end of the day, can we have a conversation about how do we maintain the sanctity of this music and these artists, but also embraced where we're going with dots as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's so true.

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Speaker 2: You have sold out, showed shows, traveled the world. I want to know one moment that just sticks it. Maybe a few moments if you want to share, that stick out to you that were like, oh my goodness, as you travel the world and you look around these these venues and you're like, this is a packed house. What are some of those moments that you can share that you hold close to you.

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Speaker 3: I'll never forget. I was in New.

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Speaker 4: Mexico, beautiful city, beautiful. Yeah, but we was at the stadium stadium, Yeah, the stadium. I was like, oh, yeah, I'm just going to the stadium, just my first time ever in New Mexico.

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Speaker 3: First time.

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Speaker 4: I get to sound check and I see all these seats, you know, and you know, I'm thinking some people may show up, they may not shure we roll up that night. It was me and CC wingstead up and literally two hundred thousand people.

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Speaker 1: My goodness, what singing with me?

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Speaker 4: Nobody a gread it before I sing in another language, right, understood the spirit behind the songs. Yeah, and that's probably the most memorable one. I've been to many other places, but that time to just see people who don't actually all speak English, yes, but understand the spirit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. It was absolutely amazing. I never forget it.

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Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The spirit is universal, like everybody, Yeah, no matter what language. And that's why he says, until everyone knows has heard of my name and knows about me, that's when I'll come back, Because, like it is, it's something that everybody can understand no matter where you come from, what language you speak.

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Speaker 1: I love that.

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Speaker 2: What is something about you that people would be surprised if you told them?

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Speaker 4: I don't know what social media now, you know what, people don't really realize that I'm really introvert.

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Speaker 1: Ish me too. I'm the biggest introvert extrovert.

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Speaker 3: You'll ever meet.

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Speaker 1: It.

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Speaker 4: So after everything is over and I'm done whatever, I enjoy going on my solo moments or in my car but myself, or just cutting the TV off, just having me moments and me time.

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Speaker 3: Because it takes a lot. And people say Because'm a score, yo, I don't.

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Speaker 4: Really get signs like that, but it takes a lot to just just just get me back so that I can do this, so that I can do this in a pure way.

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Speaker 3: So it takes a lot.

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Speaker 4: So I think watching me on social media, watching me out there, you wouldn't believe that as I said.

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Speaker 2: It, But yeah, I think as creators, that is our outlet. That's our way to like get it, get all the energy out. But like inside our homes and our safe spaces, it's complete.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm quiet, Like I need that time, Like.

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Speaker 4: I love hiking and stuff because it's like my me time. Yes, atmosphere, you know the environment, all that me and the environment, it's refueling it is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, for sure, that's so good. So you have a new song out Make Way. You are bridging the gap. You're blending hip hop, R and B everything into this album. Tell me what made you want to try to kind of like tap into those different genres.

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Speaker 4: So I've been in LA for like the last five or six years now, and some of my friends, A lot of people don't know we're with Sunday Service. So a lot of them were from Chicago, from Houston. We're in friends for We got together and I specifically said, you know, I know who I am, but I know where got me just going. So I want to create a sound that still stays true to who I am, but can go where it's going, you know, or do my purpose. So we got together in the room and basically I took me out of the room and was able to listen to the different writers in the room with me and different producers, and we came up with this concept. And anyone who really knows me know that most of my songs come from my grandmother. So my grandmother passed a few years ago. But she used to always say.

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Speaker 3: You know, he's a way maker. And so we got in the.

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Speaker 4: Room and was like, here, gonna make away, make away, you make it. And that's how it all started. And then the first came from there and all that. And I believe that even though it has these different tones of R and B, tones of hip hop, tones of this, the message still remains Jesus.

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Speaker 3: And that's what it was all about for me.

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Speaker 1: I love that. I love that.

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Speaker 2: How do you feel that that it's like even like going in between different genres, how do you feel like that's impacting the Christian community and the gospel genre.

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Speaker 3: I think it's it's great.

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Speaker 4: It's taking and I said, you know him to say, it's like taking Jesus to places that we can't really always take him in our box of church.

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Speaker 3: And let me just say that.

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Speaker 4: And I looked at some other shows, right, even even even the show, even a BG show, most artists have a choired behind them or something that they're doing. Everyone is embracing this gospel sound beyond the four walls.

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Speaker 3: Of the church.

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Speaker 4: And we speak excited because it's taking gospel to mainstream and it's reminding people that Everyone needs inspiration.

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Speaker 3: That's what gospels. Everyone needs inspiration. And I'm excited looking for it, looking for it.

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Speaker 2: Everyone is looking for hope. They're looking for that source of inspiration. That's so true, That is so true. You have a lad with the great of Donni mclerk and Jaquelin Carr actually did a movie with her.

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Speaker 1: She's so freaking talented. Love her.

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Speaker 2: How do you know when you hear a song, do you hear the voice like that's Jacquelin, I need to call her, or this is Donnie. How do you know, like this is the person for this song and it's right.

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Speaker 4: So I love to hear this, right. So I started out as a songwriter. I didn't really think I could sing all the way back in the day. So I can write a song, right, but I could write a song for other people. I can hear that voice or hear them say something, and I'm writing a song for him. So you know, I did a song with Israel before, I've done this song with you know, just Fantasia and her mom and all this over the years.

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Speaker 3: Because I heard them before. I heard them basically.

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Speaker 4: And just luckily, and I thank God for this favors that when I called them. Everyone always say yes, yeah, always sy yes. But being a songwriter who hears, I think it's been my superpower, you know, beyond singing anything else.

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Speaker 3: And I always say I'm a songwriter first.

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Speaker 1: I love that. I love that.

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Speaker 2: With all your success, how has that shifted the way that you create music?

00:20:02
Speaker 1: From going from that first album to now? How has it shifted?

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Speaker 4: So I've been doing music now, even the first off, I'll go back to my church. I've been doing music for over about thirty years now right as I've written some of the some of the greatest church songs and songs. So now where I'm now is that I want to embrace sounds and present new writers. So the music I'm working on now, like I didn't write one hundred percent, I wrote, you know, fifty percent, yeah, yeah and down giving a chance. But it's also stretching me, you know, so we're helping each other.

00:20:34
Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I'm actually recording EP right now and I probably wrote fifty percent of it wanted to writers. This is the first time getting a placement. Wow, And I'm excited because I've always been like that bridge for other artists in some type of way, and I can't stop it. Like, yeah, always kinda been that bridge to kind of help other artists in summery.

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Speaker 2: You have a foundation on the Gospel Heritage Foundation. Is that a big part of the reason why fifty of the songs were written by other people?

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Speaker 1: I love that what made you decide to create that foundation?

00:21:04
Speaker 3: So I actually took on the foundation from someone else.

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Speaker 4: Doctor Tree Harrison started over twenty five years ago, and it's a place that I used to go shit and learn about the industry.

00:21:15
Speaker 3: Right.

00:21:15
Speaker 4: A lot of people, you know, wanted to go think at musicals, but I was in the classes about publishing, you know, a class about songwriting, how to present your song to the right artist. So I believe that where we're going now and the new industry as it continues to change, there has to still be an educational platform, not only industry but ministry leaders as well. So that's that's my heart for those who are in the industry, in the ministry. I wanted to take over Gospel Heritage. I can help bridge that gap in that generation. And I went back to school maybe maybe seven years ago to get my degree in music business and Entertainment business so that I'm not just having a conversation you know I have the knowledge to back it up and that I don't know, I can call my professors because and it's just changing so fast. And we used to just sing a song in church and become famous. Then we go out there right right now. It is that you got to understand streams. You have to understand how streams go to dollars. You have to understand it's a lot more to it that you know. If we don't share it with those artists coming up, they're gonna stay lost in the stream of streams.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

00:22:15
Speaker 3: So we have to share it.

00:22:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that information is key and I don't believe in gate heaving.

00:22:21
Speaker 1: And one of the themes of this season is impact.

00:22:24
Speaker 2: That's the main theme is just how can we after every episode, what impacts are we leaving on our audience? When you think about your career, in the state that you are now, what is the impact that you're trying to make in the world.

00:22:35
Speaker 1: You know what?

00:22:36
Speaker 4: I believe that many may not remember my name right, but the songs that I've produced, written and song will live forever, absolutely, and that's more important than my name being remembered. That twenty years from now, somebody's pulling up, nobody great here or my works are surreal or trouble don't last all ways, and they're still being inspired and encouraged because that's what this journey should be about. That we leave, we leave a sound that have long life.

00:23:06
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and you're doing that.

00:23:07
Speaker 2: You're doing that if like if somebody doesn't know you sing you played that, like I want to know that song? Yeah, Like who is that? Like that your music? Definitely everybody knows it. They know and they know your day too. So don't think that it's so good. Gosp music is not just an art, it's a ministry. I feel like even speaking about just a state of music now, I feel like it's losing that. It's becoming more of the art and people forgetting about the ministry. What is something that you do to make sure that, like every time you're writing or singing it for sometimes you got different people in the room, they maybe trying to take it one way, and you're like, no, we got to make sure we still keeping the gospel in it. How do you do that and balance that in the studio?

00:23:48
Speaker 3: You know, actually it starts before the studio.

00:23:49
Speaker 4: You know, it's very important that we still or I still have a meditation time, my friend time that that I can not allow everything in all the time, because sometimes we will try to create something off of something else without it being in a spiritual place right, And I don't ever want to do that. So it starts in our prayer time and medication time and just being focused on and sure of who I am. You know, you know I did this new song right, but it's still true to who I am. You're donna see me rapping because I know I can't rap, you know what I'm saying, you know, but you know I leave it for others. But I still want to stay true to who I am and not neglect the call what I was giving.

00:24:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, you spoke about your grandmother being the source of your inspiration behind your songs.

00:24:35
Speaker 1: You lost your grandmother.

00:24:36
Speaker 2: How did you channel that grief in creating chapter X Wow?

00:24:41
Speaker 4: Well therapy first? Yeah, I needed it, I know. And as much as we love God, right when those people we love are taken from us, we still question him. And as as spiritual as I am and as much church as I've had, I still question God why now? And And my grandmother was like my mother was a teenageer when she had me so I used to go to work with my grandmother. I was on a hit while she was working and think that story. So that's that's that's us. And and God didn't let me get there in time before she transitioned, and I was upset with him for a while, so I needed I went to therapy. And but one thing that the therapist brought back to my remembrance is that the doctor said, but Sean, her heart just stopped. She didn't feel no pain, she didn't run, no things. And the thing that her and I have a discussion, she said, I don't be on no machines. I won't be nobody, you know. So everything that she wanted is just her heart just stopped, no pain. And I believe that channeling all of that channeling from grief to to to overcoming it, knowing that the feelings will always be there, but you just get stronger daily. So the chapter asked us about getting stronger daily. That's why the whole song, you will see the goodness in the Land of the Living, right. That don't mean it's gonna be today, right, but you're going to see it as long as you live.

00:26:06
Speaker 1: So that's that's so good. I love that. I love that you went to therapy.

00:26:11
Speaker 2: I love that as a Christian you were allowed to feel your emotions, you know, because sometimes you're not.

00:26:17
Speaker 1: We say you're not supposed to question God, you know, but.

00:26:19
Speaker 2: You you allowed yourself to feel what you were feeling in that moment. And then you went to therapy. As a black man in this society where you guys had the weight of the world on your shoulders, were there moments where you were carrying it or this might have say a shan, you need to go talk to somebody, or did you just do that yourself?

00:26:35
Speaker 4: So both I was carrying it. It was COVID going on. It was so many things at the same time. We wasn't traveling as much. I was in my head. You know, we're doing virtual services from the house, so it's like all that was me in my house and and and so yeah, it was all me for a while. I actually was watching uh somebody ministry online. They're talking about how they had an in house brief therapist right and started talking about what they do and think that sort. So I ended up you know, that was actually my inspiration to oh, this is what you need because I found myself in this bubble, and I felt like there was no way out right, so I had to So it was both there and I had to help myself get out. And I believe that even to this day, therapy was probably the best because you know, you know, unlock some other stuff too.

00:27:21
Speaker 3: But it started off with greeed that it went to life.

00:27:24
Speaker 4: So but I do believe that it is majorly important for African American males who have come up, especially in urban cities like Chicago like me. You know, my father was not around, you know, my mom was a teenager. And then when I did meet my father, he was I was thirty five. He was about to pass from cancer, and I'm like, you want to meet me down now, you know what I'm saying. People know me on TV, you know. So I went through all that and didn't know that I still was processing that.

00:27:49
Speaker 3: Yes, that was underneath the grief, right, It was a lot.

00:27:53
Speaker 2: It was.

00:27:53
Speaker 4: So I sit here a whole person because of therapy, and I believe that it only gets even better as long as we continue to pour into ourselves to fill ourselves up again, especially those who are in ministry who always pouring out.

00:28:07
Speaker 3: Right.

00:28:07
Speaker 4: God gives you something to pour out That's why he said, if you lift to him up, he'll do the drawing.

00:28:12
Speaker 3: But that means that we got to be filled up as well.

00:28:14
Speaker 1: Absolutely, what do you do to fill your cup?

00:28:16
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

00:28:17
Speaker 4: Definitely spend time with God, right, vacation, vacation. You know I said this way is that you got to come apart before you come apart. Right with all that we do, I think I was talking about earlier. You know we have church now, but we have no longer one services, three services, five locations. You know you singing five times? You know, just come apart before you come apart. And also always find something for you daily that could be like just become the gym. Some people go golfing, some people play basketball, whatever that is. It is a lifetime gift to yourself because we can work every day for everybody else. Answer everybody calls, that's right, I text, get everybody Instagram.

00:29:05
Speaker 3: But what are you doing for you every day? Keeps you on the right path?

00:29:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so good. What is some things I know?

00:29:11
Speaker 3: For me?

00:29:12
Speaker 2: Like you said, when you go to therapy, it starts with the thing that you're feeling initially, but then it the onion layers. Just keep peeling back and you're like, WHOA, I didn't know that was there. What's something that maybe you can share with us that you learned about yourself during that time that you may have suppressed so far back that you're like, wait, I didn't even realize this was still impagsing me today as an adult.

00:29:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:29:32
Speaker 4: I shared it before and I don't mind sharing it again. Is that I was living in fake forgiveness, right. My God, my biological father, who you know, had me, he lived two blocks away, never spoke to me all my life.

00:29:47
Speaker 3: I rode past the house several years. I never knew it right.

00:29:50
Speaker 4: And when I met him, because I'm such a Nonsalan person, you know, he had dodgs and all that, I said, he was trying to explain to me why he didn't I said, actually stopped him. I said, I don't want to know that. I said, because I'm gad. I didn't have a sixteen year old father anyway. So I was being so strong. Yeah, I was actually covering my weakness. So from that day for he lived for about seven more years, and I thought I forgave him, But the more I got to know him, the more that forgiveness was fake. So I had to actually deal with that and deal with how do you heal from what you thought you covered?

00:30:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I know, like crazy enough, I know exactly what you mean.

00:30:28
Speaker 1: That's the real thing.

00:30:29
Speaker 2: I never looked at it like that, but that's real faking forgiveness because we were like I'm fine, I'm good, like I'm good, you know, and you really not really not, Oh my goodness, in the moments that you maybe weren't sure about, like what's next. You know, as artists, we're entrepreneurs, and it can be up and down. There's ebbs and flows. What is a scripture or a quote or affirmation that just kind of brought you back to peace and like it's gonna be okay.

00:30:57
Speaker 3: It's funny because it's the first scripture I ever learned.

00:31:00
Speaker 4: I was in the Easter play when I was a kid, and my scripture was I can do all things through Christ that strength.

00:31:07
Speaker 3: That was my first scripture.

00:31:08
Speaker 4: But I find myself going back to that scripture at all times because it does get hard. Entrepreneur artists, I want to stay tuned in my ministry, but I own masters, I own this or that. I got to do these deals, and it gets a little muggy sometimes, but we have to always stay true to where our strength comes from.

00:31:24
Speaker 3: And that's what it's really about.

00:31:25
Speaker 4: I remember the scripture, but it's like, I have to know where my strength comes from. So when I'm sitting in a meeting, if it's a business meeting, I'm stronger than y'all because I know, you know, if I'm writing songs, I'm bringing my strength with me.

00:31:37
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's all things I love that.

00:31:39
Speaker 2: I love that you play a huge role behind the scenes for a lot of artists, mentoring Tashakavs, Leonard, who's actually been on our show, Anthony Brown. What is it like being a mentor and pouring into other artists?

00:31:51
Speaker 3: You know what, I think I inherited that.

00:31:55
Speaker 4: Leonard and Anthony Brown were friends of mine and I saw something in them that that.

00:32:00
Speaker 3: The world just needed.

00:32:01
Speaker 2: You know.

00:32:01
Speaker 4: It's not that they're doing nothing different, never done before. They just needed the push.

00:32:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:32:06
Speaker 4: So in producing Tasha Cobs project, you know, we even became even closer.

00:32:10
Speaker 3: I was executive producer Ethny Brown.

00:32:12
Speaker 4: We became maybe closer, but it's mainly because it was great to mentor them and still be the person they call that that mentor but it was greater to see that I will have something to do with the next generation of gospel too, you know what I'm saying.

00:32:26
Speaker 3: You know, at a lot.

00:32:27
Speaker 4: Of us try to be in it for ourselves, but I think if we're not so selfish, we're able to pour into where gospel is going.

00:32:35
Speaker 3: It would take nothing away from where we are.

00:32:37
Speaker 1: And that's what anything, that's what anything.

00:32:39
Speaker 2: I think a lot of times we do we start it's like me, me, me, me me, But helping other people takes nothing away from what you have going on.

00:32:45
Speaker 1: That is so True's room for everybody.

00:32:47
Speaker 2: Speaking of the next generation, if there's any advice that you could possibly give someone who has gifts that they really haven't tapped into or they're unsure how to go about it, what advice would you give someone? You know?

00:32:59
Speaker 4: What I would say, number one, know who you are in God, you know, and then number one two find out your assignment on the earth, right, because as you walk out your assignment on the earth, you define success, it don't define you.

00:33:12
Speaker 3: So that's that's I would start there.

00:33:14
Speaker 4: Because we have so many people, even myself, that try to be everybody else, you know, But if the day that I became very secure and who God called me to be and what I'm supposed to be doing here. Yes, I was able to even when I don't want to work, and when I do, when I when I when I go to the church it's ten people, and when it's one hundred people, when it's a thousand, I know that I am fulfilling what I'm called to this earth to do.

00:33:34
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, And that can get money when when you're in a space like we are as celebrities and people who are livelihood thrives off of people, you know, so like when you're not, when them numbers in that algorithm, algorithm in you like.

00:33:48
Speaker 1: Algorithm, it becomes like it can you play with your mind?

00:33:53
Speaker 2: But when you know your assignment on the earth, it doesn't matter if it's one.

00:33:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you.

00:33:59
Speaker 4: Know it won't always be one. But I want, Yeah, I think I want to know how would you honor the one? How would you handle the one? Before I can trust you with thousands? Yes, how would you handle the one?

00:34:09
Speaker 3: You know?

00:34:09
Speaker 4: And we don't think about that. We all want the main stage, but a lot of a lot of how I got here was a lot of non main stage moments.

00:34:20
Speaker 3: Same, Yeah, you know.

00:34:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I appreciate the main stage even more. Yes, I don't have to close out, don't you know whenever you put me up first third whatever? Is that I appreciate the main stage because I've had some non main stage moments for a long time.

00:34:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, you said something that reminded me of a red carpet I was. I think it was be Hip Hop Awards and I was going and my manager at the time was pulling me. She's like, we gotta go, we gotta go in this young girl she was a reporter. She's like, Chrystals, I please interview? Can I please interview?

00:34:47
Speaker 1: And she was like, we gotta get down here. Thing. It was like wallow, like big, like activation.

00:34:51
Speaker 2: We had to get to and she was pulling me away and like I stopped.

00:34:56
Speaker 1: My manager like hold on. I was like, let me go.

00:34:58
Speaker 2: I said, I need to tell I'm coming back to her, and I said, because I remember what it was like with nobody didn't want to talk to me.

00:35:04
Speaker 1: When my publicist would go and say, hey, I.

00:35:05
Speaker 2: Have Christopher and Hazlet from Tyler Perry's sisters and they're like, oh, well, we're waiting on a bigger It was a bigger name. I remember what that felt like, and it didn't feel good.

00:35:15
Speaker 1: It did not feel good.

00:35:16
Speaker 2: So I was like, I'm going to go do this Andy because I have a time slot, but I'm going to come.

00:35:19
Speaker 1: Back and talk to you.

00:35:21
Speaker 2: And the young lady ended up like she wanted to be an actor, ended up paying for her acting school. Like it was somebody that God pulled me back because it was something that I needed to do.

00:35:30
Speaker 1: The assignment on the Earth.

00:35:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it was like one of those things where you have to remember what it was like not to be on the main stage, remember what it was like when people didn't want to talk to you, and make sure you honor those people that do, even if it is what you think is a no name or a low outlet. We're like, is anybody ever go see this?

00:35:46
Speaker 1: They need that? Yeah, something you.

00:35:49
Speaker 3: Never know why they're called you back. That's how you said that was so good.

00:35:51
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I had no idea, and I'm really big on like fore and back. You know.

00:35:56
Speaker 2: That's one thing I did learn from Tyler is that you always when you're up, you make sure you're pulling people up with you. Like we had somebody on the other day, and he's like, if your business starts to ends with you, it's not big enough. Like what are you doing because you're not bringing nobody else up with you?

00:36:10
Speaker 4: You know, the responsibility to also to pull them up even if they don't reciprocate it. Oh yeah, not on you, that's not on you.

00:36:22
Speaker 3: Oh I don't want to help nobody else on motor. I said, you're going to cut your blessings.

00:36:25
Speaker 1: Yep, And that's exactly what.

00:36:28
Speaker 3: If God called you to pull them up, you put them up. They may not ever do it.

00:36:31
Speaker 2: That No, seriously, that's so true. And I was guilty of that too, Get out my business. I was guilty of like heartening my heart when I didn't feel like the energy was being reciprocated. You didn't have to do what I did for you back, but it was just like you. You just wanted to feel appreciated, you know, and sometimes you're not gonna get that. Sometimes they're not going to help you back in return, you know, when they're in a position to and you have to be.

00:36:56
Speaker 1: Okay with that.

00:36:57
Speaker 2: You had that so true Street saying about business, right, that's right, speaking important to other people. Why is it so important support back you talk about we live in your industry is about poor and poor and poor and porn. But why do you feel like it's so important to pour back into the next generation.

00:37:17
Speaker 4: Well, in anything we do, if we don't point the next generation, uh, then we're not equipping them, yeah, you know, like they should be, you know, so we're just throwing them out there, right, That's what That's what I say, And that's why I like, and I have to admit this, like social media maybe with stars and you know, quickness and things of that sort, but they didn't go through uh or experience some of the things that we could have shared, you know, and so by trying they get to the roadblocks and all that. We always feel guilty that we could have shared uh or at least help with the experience of the next generation. I think a lot of that is because most of us have become, like I said, too selfish, thinking that someone is going to surpass them, or that they're supposed to pass it. The Bible says greater works, shure they do, you know what I'm saying. So basically, if you did great, they're gonna do great work. And then the ones out there gonn do greater, great greater. Yeah, and it's okay because it really it really God was supposed to be mainstream today.

00:38:12
Speaker 3: That wasn't ten years ago, you know.

00:38:14
Speaker 4: And if we understand the pouring of that takes us as a whole, you know, and not just gospel, take any industry.

00:38:21
Speaker 3: The pouring of it takes us as a whole. To the next place, we'll do it.

00:38:24
Speaker 1: More right, Absolutely, I love that.

00:38:27
Speaker 2: When it comes to business and how you said, you said it from the foundation you were learning about the business as you navigated this business.

00:38:35
Speaker 1: What are some hard lessons that you've had to learn?

00:38:39
Speaker 4: Read your own contracts. How many attorneys you have have them show you what everything means. You know, I signed something years ago that gave away all my publishing.

00:38:51
Speaker 3: What accident.

00:38:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, my attorney gave it to me, went through everything and didn't see the fine print that it was publishing one hundred percent. Luckily, you know, I signed the short deal, so when I got to a few hundred thousand units, they want to give me the loan form. So I negotiated all my publishing back right and honest to buy my masters and other stuff. But just understanding that that could have went a whole other way. After all these years. It's just you know, that's part of the reason why I went back to school. I don't want to be attorney, you know, any attorney, but I want to understand what we're talking about. You have a very educated conversation. Not you telling me what it is. I want to understand what what it is. Yeah, you know, So I just I just educate yourself on the industry, you know, educate yourself on anything that you want to be a part of that.

00:39:35
Speaker 2: I'm the same way, Like we have literally my contract, we have the lawyer line by line, Okay, what does this mean? Like we're going through it so I know there's no mistake about it.

00:39:44
Speaker 1: I know what I'm signing for.

00:39:45
Speaker 4: That's let's talking to the artists. The other day, He's like, yeah, I'm out of my deal. The just had like two options. I said, you know, the option not to talk about it. I'm not talking about it. But I had explained it. What an option is. I mean they can they can exercuite their option. Yes, So he didn't he didn't know that, and not saying in a bad way means that we just should understand what we're shigning, what we get into and how to maneuver to the best of our nights. You know, we don't have attorneys, but we should really know what.

00:40:12
Speaker 1: We're shining for sure.

00:40:13
Speaker 2: For sure, and a lot of people just like, oh, I'll just have somebody to read over because attorney everything costs, you know, but you'll pay the cost in the long run if you don't, so just pay them the money, please.

00:40:24
Speaker 1: That's so true.

00:40:25
Speaker 2: If you could collabor with anybody who is your dream collaboration, and it could be more than one.

00:40:32
Speaker 4: Person to Okay, it'd be to write to tembulance tracks and have Brandy singing.

00:40:41
Speaker 3: Crazy, crazy crazy.

00:40:44
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, it's gonna happen. It will definitely happen. It will definitely happen. Do you see yourself or do you have your own record label? You do? Okay, I'm gonna ask you. Do you see yourself starting your own? But you already have?

00:40:55
Speaker 4: So I have, well what we call the label today, I have an infront with the deal with another label for music services.

00:41:03
Speaker 3: So basically I've been on my own for.

00:41:08
Speaker 1: How long?

00:41:09
Speaker 4: For since two thousand and seventeen, okay, yeah, okay, but I've always been I'd like to share this, especially with artists watching. I've always been a revenue shared artist since nobody greated not points artists, so basically explain that. So most people who signed a deal back in the day, they were getting points on the keep records so like and some of those points on producer Right. Well, from the time I signed a contract for the Nobody created project, it was a percentage of the revenue, the net income.

00:41:38
Speaker 3: So basically I've always signed those type of deals.

00:41:40
Speaker 4: So even when those deals were over, the new deals are still like sixty forty seventy thirty of.

00:41:45
Speaker 2: The net right, Okay, that's smart because a lot of Yeah, that's something I haven't really learned, and I do want to learn more.

00:41:51
Speaker 1: About that as I get into music.

00:41:53
Speaker 2: Is the points I remember back in the day when I was doing music, all I hear was points, points, points like you get this many points on the song.

00:41:59
Speaker 1: But I never really understood what that meant.

00:42:01
Speaker 4: If we still have those point deals with streaming, we wouldn't we would.

00:42:06
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, streaming, Like how has that? I know everybody says like artists don't really make the money that they used to make.

00:42:13
Speaker 1: You make you have to go work for it.

00:42:14
Speaker 2: You got to go do the live touring to really recoup and get the money for the most part. How has streaming impacted the gospel industry?

00:42:22
Speaker 3: Yes and no.

00:42:22
Speaker 4: I'm gonna say yes or no because I'm a master owner. Uh streaming, Uh is it makes I would say it makes money in my sleep.

00:42:37
Speaker 3: New songs.

00:42:38
Speaker 4: Definitely, you have to kind of get the traction on it, and it only pays, like you know, so much.

00:42:42
Speaker 3: For I mean thousands of all that.

00:42:45
Speaker 4: But if you're you're you are smart about it is that you have to have your every platform. You have to make sure that it is encoded the right way and that sort it can still make sense. Yeah, it has impacted the gospel industry, not not as much as people consume it more than ever greatly, But for your new artists who are trying to get out whatever, the space for them is not as open. Right, It's there, you know, put that misic out, but now how do we find it? But you get to it because you only got so many top teams. And then because the industry is still I don't know if I'm becoming activist or not, it's still putting Christian gospel in the same plate like you're at Apple Music. Some of our stats are yeah, a little bit.

00:43:33
Speaker 3: So you'll be number one in gospel on the Apple chart.

00:43:36
Speaker 4: You're number twenty nine because you're in the midst of the Christian gospel chart.

00:43:40
Speaker 3: So there's a reason for them doing it.

00:43:41
Speaker 4: But it's our platform is a little bit more diluted than it was before I started anything else.

00:43:48
Speaker 2: I know exactly what you're talking about because I go always go to like the Christian part on Apple Music, and then you have like a gospel workout playlist and you have a Christian workout playlist, and I'm like, oh, I gets two different things. But then you look at the hop songs and it's.

00:44:03
Speaker 1: Got it. I got it all right.

00:44:04
Speaker 2: So we normally do like this or that game on the show, and today we're gonna switch it up.

00:44:10
Speaker 1: But Sean is with me.

00:44:11
Speaker 2: In the hot seat to see if I remember some hymnals. There's been a long time, so we're gonna see, all right, what you got it?

00:44:17
Speaker 3: Okay, So it's not on here.

00:44:18
Speaker 1: Oh Lord, tis so sweet to trust in Jesus.

00:44:26
Speaker 3: Just to take him at this word.

00:44:30
Speaker 1: You better sing it, just to rest upon his promise. I do not remember the song.

00:44:36
Speaker 3: Just all right, We're going nothing. All right, that's good, that's all right. Cool At the cross.

00:44:45
Speaker 2: At the cross where I first saw that different one, that's all the light and the burdens of my heart road away.

00:44:58
Speaker 1: It was there by faith.

00:45:01
Speaker 2: I received my side and I am happy.

00:45:08
Speaker 3: That's how we do it, all right, all right, I'm gonna make you proud.

00:45:13
Speaker 2: All right, Let's say the shoes Jesus is mine.

00:45:21
Speaker 1: Oh what a fall taste of glory divine you finished air, salvation.

00:45:32
Speaker 3: Purchased by God.

00:45:34
Speaker 4: Going up and be reading this is that?

00:45:40
Speaker 1: This is my story. This is my story.

00:45:48
Speaker 2: This is my song, raising my safe.

00:45:53
Speaker 1: Beyond all the day long? Is that the right note? This is my bye? Sorry, This is my song raising my save all the day is a duet coming on me? Me me met.

00:46:16
Speaker 3: Y'all be beating? All right? All right?

00:46:22
Speaker 1: Okay, one more more, Yeah, one more.

00:46:24
Speaker 4: Let's I don't know if I know all the rest of this one to help you out?

00:46:29
Speaker 1: Okay?

00:46:31
Speaker 4: What can watch away my sins?

00:46:35
Speaker 1: Nothing but the blood I know, the love Gesus. What can make me oh again?

00:46:44
Speaker 2: Nothing but the blood of Geezus, white as snow name, I know nothing but the blood of Geeesus. All the church raised in it all right, last one, let's do one work that was one?

00:47:08
Speaker 1: All right, it's not out here, okay, just a little bit, all right, let's do it. Okay, Jesus.

00:47:15
Speaker 3: I'll never forget what you've done for me, Jesus. I'll never forget.

00:47:21
Speaker 1: How you said me, Jesus. I'll never forget how you bron me.

00:47:28
Speaker 3: Jesus. I'll never forget.

00:47:30
Speaker 1: No, No, all right, that's good. I don't remember that.

00:47:38
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:47:38
Speaker 2: I was raised Methodist, yes, so like I know the amazing grace and the some of them, but like, yeah, I was raised Methodist a right, so me not old, Jus, I know this one min Oh cry, wow, I need to go up.

00:48:06
Speaker 1: Now, called dude, not past me.

00:48:15
Speaker 2: I'm calling you, yay, yeah, all out.

00:48:20
Speaker 1: Say yeah my uble cry. Oh that's real. Mm hm there's some days like that. Wow. No, that's that hard call. Don't pass me by, Lord, got not calling on you. Mhm. Okay, we need to say back to some hymnals. That's good. I donna have to pull my hymlo book out. Thank you so much.

00:48:49
Speaker 2: I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. Please tell our audience how they can keep up with you. Where they can download your new album all the things.

00:48:56
Speaker 4: Absolutely dot com, met, your Facebook, Me, your Instagram, but Sha Mitchell sometimes on Snapchat. It's all Butshan Mitchell music available streaming everywhere you stream your music.

00:49:07
Speaker 3: Check it out. The new song make Away. It's making Away.

00:49:09
Speaker 2: Yes, let's get into it. Make sure you gotta download it right now. Run them streams up all the things.

00:49:15
Speaker 1: When you go on the road, we would love to support you. Yes, thank you so much. I appreciate it. I love this. It's a great conversation.

00:49:21
Speaker 2: Yes, today's Crystal's closet. I am wearing a khaki Hellsa jumpsuit. My shoes are by Faera Gamo. I'm wearing both take Venetta earrings of Van Cleet bracelets.

00:49:38
Speaker 1: And yeah, this is the look. Get into it. I love this piece.

00:49:48
Speaker 2: From mental resilience to physical wellness, financial literacy, and spiritual alignment, this season is your invitation to step into the fullest, boldest version of yourself. We believe that impact is about perfection. It's about purpose, presence, and progress. Whether it's breaking generational cycles, healing from within, or building new blueprints for success. Our mission is clear to equip you with the tools, truths, testimonies that leave a lasting imprint on your journey.

00:50:18
Speaker 1: This isn't just a talk shower podcast. It's a movement.

00:50:21
Speaker 2: One conversation at a time, we are shifting mindsets, unlocking potential, and reminding you that your life was meant to make ways. Let's talk about what really changes us and let's keep it real and always let's keep it positive.

00:50:36
Speaker 1: Sweetie with Impact