Jalen Rose | Ep 116 | ALL THE SMOKE Full Episode | SHOWTIME Basketball

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Speaker 1: Welcome to All the Smoke, a production of The Black Effect and our Heart Radio and partnership with Showtime M Welcome back to another addition to All the Smoke, day too in New York, and we got a man of Many hats, our brother print Yet thank you, question appreciate it. We look up to you when you were in Michigan in the NBA, and now your crossover has been its looks seamless. I'm sure it's been tough and draining, but you're a man of many hats. What's up with you now and everything you're doing post career? And how did was that something you always want to do when you stumble upon it? Hey man, I'm just happy to be here, to be honest, like, I feel like I've arrived being on you guys show, because you guys took it to another level, you know what I mean, and being unapologetically black. It's something that like we gotta fight for. Like I know y'all get text I know y'all get emails. I know people try to censor y'all, you know what I mean. So I appreciate you guys really like taking it to the next level. And for me, it was like trying to lay a foundation. Like when I went to college, this was my major radio, TV film. I didn't know that I was gonna play thirteen years in the league. I used to look at players like see Well and grand Hill and be like, I can ball, but I'm not them like real spill. So I need to have a fall that plan. I don't know how I'm gonna be able to hoop if I'm getting compared to them, because I've been playing against them my whole life. And so I was like, I'm gonna be able to cover them if I ain't gonna be able to play. And so that's what I was doing. And then early in the league it wasn't many outlets. I was with the Patients. We was going to the playoffs, We was going to the finals. Then I got traded to the Bulls and we weren't. So I reached out to a contact. I had a b T Mass Sports because I just did the show and I was like, Yo, the Lakers playing against the Nets in the finals. I got a place in l A. I can go cover it. I get all access, y'all just sending the camera and so they did it. I cut it, I edited, they liked it, we ran it, and then I pitched that to the Best Damn Sports Show the next year and then they hired me. So while I was in the league from two thousand and to the two thousand and seven, I was already working with them doing NFL Network, doing Top Ranked Boxing. I did the MTV Movie Awards, like I was doing all of this stuff, T n T, Sideline and Nick Van through the Town when it was Spurs and the Kings and so I was doing all of that, and then in two thousand and seven when I retired, that's when I officially started working for ESPN full time. I mean, you've got many hats over there, Um, what is your ultimate goal in this media space? Are you? Are you good? Obviously we're always trying to aspire, but what what are you trying to get to in this media space? I just like having my voice and and being able to express it in different venues. So for NBA Countdown, that's talking about the league, that's gonna be a twenty two minute show. When we're talking about current events in the league, that's it. Um, Jalen and Jacobe is just like you guys, show us a variety show, gives us a chance to express ourselves beyond ball. I remember being a former basketball player trying to talk other sports and like, what is he talking about football or baseball? Or what does he know? And I'm like, so, let me get this right. There could be a media person who didn't play sports at all, but they can talk about it, They can talk about everything. But I gotta stay in this lane. And so I was just trying to do what I can to eventually break down those barriers to where I can just talk about more than one thing, because I was interested in more than one thing. And that's what Jayden and Jacobe started. That show wasn't in my contract. It was just a pet project. And when I first started doing it, I remember it was a couple of shows they had like sports illustrated models and they had bubble heads. I was like, I need a show that look like us. You know what I'm saying, What no soul? What no flavor? Was no culture? And I started doing the show. I brought a picture of jay Z that I had it correct. We were doing all of that and because I felt like this was our chance to actually express ourselves and this was like on YouTube on periscope. The only other person that was doing videos like this was Steph Steph Marburry. He was doing them too. He was that's when he had first going to China. He was doing them and I was doing them. And so I started doing these videos and I was like, wait a minute, it's gonna be on YouTube. People can see me, Like, oh, we gotta do the background. So that's why I started like trying to come up with images that are like representing our culture, that spoke for us when we weren't speaking, because they always try to muzzle us and make us talk about one thing. So that's really where it started. But I think it's dumb too because obviously, you know, with Stewart, Scott, Stephen A, we we we've had a little bit of representation as far as talking about it. But again, like you Tea, you brought our culture and our style to it. So because of the foundation you laid a handful of years later, I'm actually on first take with Stephen Nasmith talking about weed and how about what I mean, and just to think like that kind of stuff doesn't happen if you start slowly, If you don't start slowly laying that foundation. Okay, what really bringing the world to what we're really about. So definitely appreciate you for that. Enjoy the season so far. What's the biggest change for you. I love the the west of the rest of swallowing their whistles. Let these boys play, and I think some stars that have taken a minute for them to kind of find because with all due respect, I love James Harden, one of the most talented scores, but I think this rule was made because he mastered the manipulation of drawing those fouls. So now that they're not calling that stuff no more, I think it's taking them a minute to get his foot And well, there have been your thoughts on these guys, because you came up in the area where you had to earn your fouls. So I believe that James was popping a little bit at the beginning because he was looking at Katie like like it belly, like that's your man, right, well, your man that like y'all told me to leave Houston to come on with y'all, and he ain't out here. And I noticed that one of them was at the podium after the game and one of them not. And the one it ain't is James and I'm a Pistons fan. I'm from Detroit. I know y'all saw that play when the ball went into the backcourt and James was walking and they picked up the ball and went dunked it. He having too many of those moments, Yeah, having to Houston, but he at least he was trying to get out of Like, so now you where you want to be. You show up out of shape and you're picking and choosing when you're gonna play. So we're now saying k d need help, but he got James on the team, like he just wants m VP of the league, you know what I mean. So to me, like I need to see more from him, I think I just think it's both of You'll know, it's a difference between great players and winners. People don't understand that we've we've seen a bunch of great players, but how many of them are winners, you know what I'm saying. And James wasn't the win in Houston. So I don't know why you think it just because he's here now and he and even though Kyrie ain't got Katie as he automatically gonna turn the win and it don't it don't just happen that easy, bro, But how about Steph. Steph took a personal and y'all know this. He shot them down with the term here and smiled and danced the whole time. He's pulling up across half court on purpose. Right, he did that on they was up twenty five and took them out. He stayed in, right, He stayed in and he can go home at night. Like Katie joined me and left, James ran from me. I bounced them. Now they're playing together and they still can't beat me without Clay and Wiseman. That's tough. That's tough to talk about your upbringing that uh in Detroit. You know, we hear things, We see things that we told you before. We have Little Beach coming on the show. You told us that's family. So talk to us about your upbringing to Detroit, crushing and shot to the BML family. So single parent family, Um, Genie Rose, my mom, I lost her February second, Thank you brothers. And I never met my father, Jimmy Walker, who was the number one pick in the nineteen sixty seven NBA draft, So I didn't necessarily realize we were poor because everybody else had the same family challenges that I had. So eating syrup sandwiches or sugar water and milk and all of that was normal, like government cheese food stands, just normal. So we didn't it wasn't. It didn't, it didn't. It didn't ruin my self esteem. I felt like, yeah, nor, I was like, I'm good, and so I just had a path and I'm glad you're having a little meat young because literally, like those years when y'all watching BMF eighty seven and ninety one, I went to Detrait Southwestern, the same school that they went to, and their sister nw Coole, who's wanted to produce, was a cheerleader when I played. Damn, So I know a lot of stuff that I probably shouldn't say in front of these kids, right, and that, to be honest, that's one of the things that disappointed me about my Michigan experience is because people thought that when I got to Michigan, I started getting love because of the school. I was getting loved because of the neighborhood. It took care of me. You want to hoop, you go this way, we win state championships. I got bottles, I got a cold, I got kicks. I didn't get them from Michigan. I didn't get them some I love you Steve Fisher, but I didn't get him from him, you know what I'm saying. Like, and so that that represented my upbringing as a high school high schooler. And then just you know, going to the you m and being a member of the five Fire shot to see where we just got in the Hall of Fame. Ray and Jimmy, they're doing their thing. Just you know, our slogan was gotta let you nuhing hang you know scar Face boyd. Yeah, absolutely all ghetto boys, all ghettle woollie da, you know all of that, and so um, just just joining that group that kind of like just prepare my life. Talk to us about the the Mischigan experience because it was historical from the standpoint of us looking up to y'all the streets, loving y'all. But the pushback that you guys got from mainstream media, um, the school after you all did so much for them and now, I mean, it makes me, it makes us feel good when you hear you know, they're starting to accept you all back because the ship was bullshit to begin with. But talk to us about that journey, that experience because I mean, you were at the top of the top of times, and even when you're at the top, probably emotionally you felt like he was at the bottom because all the bullshit you'll was facing correct and you're ready for this shop. And again like I have no ill will to my Michigan experience, I said, once Juwan got the job, I could go to a game my brother standing on the sideline, suited and booted. Even if they don't acknowledge us, they gotta acknowledge because brothers stand around. But to be honest with you, to answer that question, they still don't acknowledge us to this day, to this day, it's not going back up day. I would just I got season tickets so I can looking up. Is still not up there? Huh? To this day, that's a week. That's that's that's week. Just like he said, I just told him, I don't remember. I stop my junior in high school ball heads the insurance black side because of y'all, So we know what's influence. So for y'all not to be accepted there, that kind of just said it says a lot about the university to people like us. To this day, Beyante Walden, I got season tickets. I go to the games to represent from my brother. I ain't go back when see where I've got this band. And then like how we wouldn't acknowledge from when I left until like twenty twenty. Now it's like a twenty year period. I ain't go back to ann Arbor, but like once one time until Juan got the job. That's when I let it go. But they still ain't like acknowledging us. They can the five five numbers ain't even retire that Michigan. That's crazy, that's crazy right now, Like I was just watching, Um, I'm a kid shout to Robbie Humble, a kid to go to Perdue. I was watching the game like here regard it's never retired, and so I had to ignore it, Matt, I had to ignore it, Jack, I had to just let it go. Damn How hard? How hard is that though? Because just like like that's some of your best years of your life, the best, you know what I'm saying, And then some of them and the bonds that y'all built, you know what I'm saying, they're gonna last forever. What this is me off is that my Texas brothers don't get their true salute, like I love Ray and Jimmy and I arrive for them on and off the camera. They'll tell you. And I hate that Ray Jackson sacrifice so much to be a part of our team. And I know he was purposely kept out of the NBA at that time, really purposely. He wont m v P of the c B A and still didn't get in the leagal it did. That's the equivalent y'all are winning the m v P of like the G League or whatever. The man mind. He was bawling. He was bawling. He deserved the chance to play, same with Jimmy, and so I not at the n I A L rules exists. Imagine if they could have got bred, then we had harrachis that we was rocking long short black shoes. Imagine if we got bread off of every pair of black socks to get sold, we would have had that. We would have had that that, we would have had that. And so I hate that for them because Ray, in particular, he sacrificed the most. Ray was faster than us, He's more athletic than us. Like I used to sit back and marvel at him, like I like you should want to tax your dog. He me and him had this conference. We were He'll tell you we're in South Quaiet at you of them and he wasn't playing. I had talks with Ray like, dog, you might need to think about transfer. He was that good. He gave up that much. And so I hate for them not to get their love because they deserve it so much. I mean, obviously we were touching on the loaves, but talk about some of the highs and in the culture. How you guys were able to know intermixed the culture of hip hop in sports at such a young age, Like normally that you leave that too, and Allen Iverson when he gets to the NBA, but you guys were able to do with as teenagers like Magic and Bird like helped revolutionize the NBA for the eighties, right, like, so that's the league I ended up watching. And then like Jordan and Isaiah and Hakim and all of these guys get drafted in the eighties, so like they needed to turn around the image of the NBA. So they weren't really like politically driven as the athletes before them, the Muhammad Ali's, Um Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Bill Russell. They weren't as politically driven, but I looked up to un l v's team, Anderson Hunt went to my high school, you know, to find the four m VP of play with LJ and Stacy All when he went to my high school. UM Derrick Coleman was when he was at Syracuse. Big John when he was at UM Georgetown. Big John actually reached out to us because that was the time where he was opposing the prop forty eight rules and the game will started. They tossed the ball up and Big John to walk off when he was in contact with us about doing it too. A lot of people don't realize that and us just being ourselves and realized like this one. I know this sound crazy. This is when rap music wasn't accepted by sports, like when I was in high school, using the layout line and stuff like they weren't playing rap. I remember I was the DJ. I used to bring the tapes. You had to put the little tissue at the top of the tape, like started right here. Because when I was in high school, Southwestern um carrass one had a song called Souft Bronx and we were Southwest and we're like southwest, south Southwest or BMF being their fur coats on. It was crazy. It was it was nuts, you know, and their purposely come in middle of the first quarter, fiftm white, first full list, three quarters, truck, jewels, everything, they stopped the game. So that is where it came from for me. Like I was playing, like it's almost like above the rim like I was playing. So it was like slave crack rock who got the wicked jump shot? So it was like I was hooping, they was hustling, and like Detroit was on fire at that time. Pistons one back to backs. Dad has been won the highest man. The Tigers won the World Series. We were the fat five, so it was a great time to be us. But I realized I personally we arrive. I went to Cameo Summer Jam early nineties and it was all of the top artists. And again this is before sports embraced rap used to hear, WoT there it is, what's my guy name? Uh? This is how mantel George. Yeah, those the only songs they've played. Those the only songs they played. And I'll never forget going. Yeah yeah, yeah, parents just don't understand. And I went to Cameo Summer Jam after our freshman year and this one Hammer was the number one artists in the world, and the Pistons were the first team to adopt you can't touch this. That's what brought RAP to the NBA, which brought it to sports. And I remember there was so many artists. TLC. Dean Sanders was there, also, all the Bay Are Too Short, forty Spice one, Pete rock, Cel Smooths, everybody, everybody, MC light, It was everybody, and I was like trying to get in a little bit, you know how we do it whatever, strolling up. Then Lewis Burrell, Hammer Brothers like man, yeah, yeah, because Hammer was like a hundred of it every show, he was a hundred of them. So I got a chance to like and before I knew it, I was up on the stage and then during the like intermissions of the show is like a basketball court, and I was around my favorite artist. They're go l L, They're go run DMC, They're go ep m D Naughty Nation, and they knew who I was. I was like, Yo, this is crazy. And I ended up being friends with them. E P M D gave me a sky pager. I used to go to East Iceland when I was in college. There's a picture of me online when I got a hurricane shirt on him holding up a forty ounds like I was at. I was at the E. P. M. D Studio when I took that picture. So that's when I felt like, all right, That's when I felt like the five five a ride because the culture embraced us, because mainstream media didn't like us. So I looked back at it now they look at it like the five five. It's kind of like when I look at the career Muhammad Ali, like when he died or when he got Parkinson's seemed like he got embraced. That's what happened when he when he couldn't that's that's that's my idol. I said it to somebody when he couldn't talk, that's when they gave him his love. Like it's an iconic moment that he lit the torch in Atlanta, But that's one of my least favorite Muhammad Ali moments because that was not his big that was not his best. We met him when we were in college. We went to its where we did magic tricks for us. He gave us confidence, like don't let nobody muzzle y'all voices or that he moved to Michigan. I got a chance to meet him a lot, and so we as athletes and as black people came a long way to expressing ourselves. And he was a trailblazer for that. Dion Sanders was another trailblazer for that. Anytime you tell yourself you great before they tell you great like that, especially especially so it went down like that. What part did Japan in the fat pop swag? Like you know, everybody had their own input, the baggy shorts of shoes, what you played. It's hard for me to like say it without people thinking like I'm trying to make it about me. But she was fashionable, but I was. I cared more, that's all. Juwan didn't. Juan was like, I'm trying to ball. Ja Wan is a professional. Juan was always ten years older than us, but thee but the same age. Never had not a fresh cut, always had a big gold t, always had a crease in his pants. Like we all kept our originality, and so many times people talk about us all wearing ball heads. He ain't cut his hair ball. He didn't know. He was like, I love y'all, I ain't cutting my hair ball. I ain't cutting my hairball, and so like I started wanting to wear the shorts because Doug Smith Missouri, Steve Smith's Syracuse, Anderson Hunt You and l V Steve Smith Michigan State. They used to all come home in the summer and bring me shorts. Right, So I used to have those satin shorts down to my knees. They get heavy when you started sweating in them, but they were so cold. So like by the time we got to college, like, y'all got a Nike contract. I know, y'all can get us some longer shorts. That's really what it was. Bobby Bland, I remember his name right, our equipment, Like, we want some longer shorts. And then the other thing, y'all know, Nike Rev came in. Welcome to the school. Everything's great, man. He put out some power forward shoes, man, backup, power forward shot. Yeah, we're not wearing them. Where the boat jacket we we we ain't wearing those hot tops up to my cap. I'm not wearing them. And so that's when the haraches came. They didn't even want us to wear them because they felt like it wasn't a basketball shoot because your ankles were off right and so we wore them. It's like you gotta get your ankles taper for every practice before every game for a lawsuit, Like okay, cool. And then we signed a little waiver so we could wear those shoes. And that's where like the whole fashion thing with the shoes came from the ball heads. It was more like just solidarity, one for all off of one whatever. The socks. Ray Jackson really yes, indeed, we were about to play in Texas. I forgot the first I forgot one of the Texas schools and raised homeboy came to the hotel. Ray was like, I've been traveling, and bring me some socks and he brought Ray a gray pair with blue Nike. And I was in the room playing uh Madden, and Ray came in the room and he pulled out the sides. I'm like, dog, what do you get doing from? Like he just got it for them all And then we all looked like they had some black So we went to the mall and I just think about this, they didn't have five pairs of black socks at an entire mall. The first game. Our dress socks on top of my white sox. True story, I don't dress socks. We went to the little stall, we put on our units, covered up the socks. Dot. We ain't gonna snap off our pants until right before the tip off, so they won't tell us. No. You know how that works, We do it prior gotta get it. Yeah, we're gonna shut it down, so we're gonna make sure they can't shut it down. So that that's how we did it. Yeah. Oh, Rice, that's who he's playing. Rice. What's your relationship now? I love him? He should be in the Hall of Fame. Three Final Force the National Championship. He should be in the Hall of Fame. Did great with San Diego State bought the program back to LFE Brian Dutcher, who now culture was to lead recruiters. Jawan signed with him first. Now they're head coach. He was giving out tickets on campus. Now they got a real program. You should be in the Hall of Fame. He's got many championships? Is Jim be huh? And um my guy Michigan State? Who I love is? Oh? I mean he got many championships as though, so I feel like he deserved it. What's your relationship with web We touched on it in Atlanta when we had him. Um recently disintroducted the Hall of Fame. Saw that shout out, But what's your relationship with web I love Webb and I'm almost sure, especially since Jawan just resigned, that I'll see him in that arbor. I'm back living in the d and I see he just did. It's so incredible, um donation uh to to candidates and out killing them in Detroit to Shota Biola. I just love how strip clubs and we used to be taboo even though everybody else was doing it. Now we're started doing It's great to see us getting profit off of it. And so I believe we'll be able to break bread this year or whatever at the game. Um, I'm glad I got a chance to be there when he got inducted in the Hall of Fame. I'm gonna I'm glad he got a chance to uh be on the show right after I lost my mom. And so we're goodie. I have I have no problems, no ill will with my brother. Of course, we need to probably sit down and talk about some dots of miles and cross some teas or whatever. But you know, I'm taking the bullet for sea. Well that's my brother I mean, I love to hear that. Being big fans of both y'all and he was kind of my big brother coming up through the league and just being big fans. So obviously at this point, you mean tomorrow is never promised. So to be able to see that bridge being rebuilt or not, even though it was broken, but just being able to, like you said, crossing together, I think that's dunk Man. So we definitely commend you for that. You all know about the game, even playing at u c l A for so many years against Matt and everybody who went to u c l A. And it's funny that you just said your big brother in league. I remember one time, and I'm gonna say too much on camera, y'all was in Miami and he was like, yo, yo, yo, yo yo, make some moves, make some moves, and I'm like making left, making right. I'm gonna show you to my apartment, and I got a jack moment for you. I land in Denver, I'm looking at the roster to see what team got a hold over from the night before. I called his room in the middle of the night and I possibly was looking for some treats. I remember another time you maybe I'm just saying. Maybe I can't confirm or deny. But I remember another time in Toronto too, when he was out in Toronto and you opened up the house and we came to him like yo, yeah, and I was too yeah oh yeah man. She was shout out Mona. You know what I mean, the greatest time for that. Yeah, that's that's reminded me name with that face. Ye yes, yes, great, great great dot connected declared for the draft of overall. So you're going from Detroit to Denver. What's what's your thought? This was This is from him as a kid then since nine, not thinking he's going to wear basketball right then you get it. But what's crazy is like and that's that's why I love today's game, because everybody like tried to worry about my positions to be something like that. I always hated that. Like when I was at Michigan, Yeah I played point, but Jimmy got the ball, get the ball? See where I get the ball? Like we were getting to change, but we're playing position list And so when I got to the league, it was people like, oh, he got the nerd to try to act like he want to be a tall point guard. He ain't no magic or whatever, like I'm just trying to move or whatever. And so I didn't like that initially. But let me tell you one of the things I did like about being in Denver playing with Mark mood I'll do a role and people to see stuff. Now it reminds me of him. He was the first dude uh uh, like Tim Hardaway was doing it. You know, he the o G but he faus on that thing pump fake and here hit you with the pump fake and have everybody, hey, man, you know what's crazy. He's playing in the Big Three and just played in the Big Three championship, and I love him. I learned professionalism and he's immaculate. He had Tourette syndrome. I sat there and watched him tire shoe as a teammate. I saw him not eat a certain periods of time in the season, him and the che Malajuan, and it was incredible to me. I couldn't. I was like wow, Like I was like, I got stepped it up. Definitely. I'm like, he better than me. He more disciplined than me. Like I'm smoking, I'm drinking forties. I'm like, I gotta I gotta tone it down a little bit. You know what I'm saying. If I'm the last and so I look that, That's what I actually take from my Denver experience because I led the team and Assis like I got. I still have the Dinver Nuggets Rookie record for Assis Like. It was fun playing there. We made the playoffs. My second year we lost to the Spurs. That's the year David one m VP. That's the year they had the best record in the league. He has seventy in the game. May year he was killing. Yeah, he was killing. You recently spoke on burning through that money your first contract. Talk to us about that because the first time I know, y'all know what you mean. I know y'all know six you know at the end of every summer my ship was a red. It's important to say it. It's important to say so many times, like as black men in particular, we can't share our pain because it makes us like look weak or afordable. Salt. No, man, I'm telling you, we're gonna Hey, man, that first contract all gone, all gone buying and you're learning. Like when I was at school, I didn't know I didn't have a cred. I didn't know my credit report, like now, that's normal. That's like a normal thing, and track and follow and know about that and so. And it's different when you get paid or get drafted and you move your family to the suburbs versus if they already lived there. That's a whole different dynamic. My family didn't live in a lot. So yes, and you're invested in everybody's dreams. But I'll just tell everybody, just just try to teach people how to fish. And most of the people that's ever gonna be mad at you is when you stopped feeding him once you do the most for Yeah, anybody that's walk in the face of this earth that act like they dislike me and they know me, it's because I've given them money and I've stopped. That's the only reason my time, my energy, my money. It ain't because I talked crazy to them, and ain't because I went behind their back and tried to get what they significant other ain't none of that. It's because I stopped feeding the water off. That's why that says about that person, correct, That's why they too. Like you said, when you're look in at the mirror, you can't you can't lie to yourself. Two years in Denver. Um off to Indiana from Mark Jackson, Rickey Price. Um, what was your That was kind of your first introduction to the business of the game. And that summer I got traded. That's the summer Tupac got killed. I was supposed to go to that fight on the Bruce Selton Fight water place there. I used to go to all of the Typson fights and I was supposed to go to that fight. So I remember that mob deep. I just up Street Live. I was going back and forth. I just got trade offs, playing it the whole way. And when I first got to the pacer, I was like, oh man, I get to play red. Yeah, I get to do that all whatever. Whatever. But Larry Brown different. I didn't like the fact that they traded me for somebody that he liked a lot, Mark Jacksons, and he held it against me. Gave me fifteen DMPs that year. He tried to he tried to get me out of the league. He brought me in the office one time. He was like, Chris and Jawan are up here, Ray and Jimmy are down here, and I ain't like that. By the way, He's like, I'm gonna determine which way you go. WHOA. I got up. This is then Marcus Square and I was like, no, you ain't. I got to walk right out the office. I was on that. I was on that then, like I look at myself. You I look at ballhead Jalen like he was hazardous to my health. You know what I'm saying, like for like for real. But he was trying to get me out the league and the next year, but I applauded Donnie Washing because Donnie Wash brought me in. He's the president Jim of the Pacers. Kim and Larry have a close relationship. They actually went to college together and with roommates. A lot of people don't know that. And he was like, I've been talking a lot with Larry, and don't be surprised if you're here longer than he is. I just need you to be patient, be professional this year. I need you to trust I loved called mafia don He's like, I need you to trust me. I was like, all right, So regardless of whether I wasn't playing or not, I started making practice and practice my game too. Um follow what Donnie told me. And the next year Larry left and went to Philly. Then Larry bird came in Larry Burns like, I'm gonna give you a chance to do your thing. Yeah, that's when I start balling. Who was the vest of land On when he was with the Pacers, David Bars Well, it's like all different good relationships were there when I came. Absolutely for the love. I used to tell him that that's to remember when he got it. That's a little bro and play with him. Jonathan and Jo when they were young. I love all of them. Speak to JB real quick. He was hey man, take off on the free throw line with his left hand, with his left hand, shoot threes and his body just failed them. That's it. He could shoot the three, he can jump off two ft, he could jump off one for his He just he groups, in my opinion, so fast, so young, and just like so frail. Body just broke down the knees. Kept with bro. He'll practice one day, he said, out thirty days in practice one day and do something. Practice incredible, Bro, this dude get healthy, incredible and so I love. I love that. But I would say um for basketball reasons. Mark Jackson, because while I was trying to learn how to play off the ball from Reggie and come off screens. I didn't come off screens in college. I had the ball. So I'm playing with Mark and Reggie. Mark like it was funny. They're like, your job is to going to this schooll know the single double a little and go opposite every time, and then a couple of times, you know, you feel like you're gonna go under and pop out without set in the screen, like, oh, I ain't gonna going to you. You know what I'm saying. I've been in that position. I'm like, that's what I used to call him. You know what I'm like, I got to patch on his eye. Man, I didn't even see me. I know. He's like, and so he like, you ain't want to play? Got you? You know what I mean? I got you because I was a lot of times me and Travis was even being backup point guard. I was a point forward. So I need to learn from Reggie and I need to learn from Mark. So Mark top five and assistant Reggie one of the greatest shooters of all time. That was perfect for me, and so those guys and Larry Bird played for Larry Bird three years and Larry is awesome. Carlisle was on the staff and so that that was a great experience, great opportunity. We made it to the only finals for the franchise, and so that was a good look. Any any cooler crazy stories about Larry Yeah, um uh oh yeah, last dance, Like the rest of the world see that as the last dance, like they beat us, you know what I'm saying. So I don't really love that documented as much of everybody else. Um, after we lost that game in to the Bulls, so we're the only team to take him the seven games. So this is after Larry Brown was benching me. I got fifteen DMPs and then Larry Bird came in. So this team didn't make the playoffs. When I was getting we didn't make the playoffs. The next year, we was in game seven against the Bulls and he used to conversa The next season, they set the same team just I was playing and we made a couple of moves. We brought Mark back like the same And in that game, fourth quarter, I made two straight shots and they called time out, and y'all know, going to the time we got this done, I'm jumping up and down and in the time out he took me out the game. I was pissed. I was mad, like nobody else in the world in my mind was even care. I was like, I can't believe it just happening. And I didn't go back here, So like the last five minutes, I'm sitting over there, I can't believe I ain't go back in. And this is before I have media responsibilities. They had to go to Reggie, had to go to Larry, so I ain't really had to talk to the media. So I basically took a shower peel, jumped on the bus like I was pissed, and I felt like I was gonna sit in the back and uh not talked to the coaching staff, and so I walked up. I was like, damn, Larry already on here, you know what I'm saying. And I was like I was gonna wait for some other people, but like I was so early, I was like, damn, I don't have to walk past them. I was like, I letn just walk past him or not even saying. I was like, I'm gonna just walk past him. And our team did that too. When y'all watched Last Dance, Black Shoes, Black Sox ball Heads, Rick Smits went right and I'm like, we just walking like like a kid mad at their parents, like let me just walk past him and not say no. And he's like, Jalen, that's where I got that Kobe voice from an eight one that's still ring in my mind. That was Larry. Jalen turned around like all right, coach. He had a beer in his hand. He's like, I funked up. I should have got you back out there. That feels good, though, don't help, but it feel good. Coaches don't do that now. Never. Coaches don't do that. They pride, never, especially him. Right, you got to say that to me even if he felt like that, he didn't have to say that to me. And I know it's a real ship though, And I was like, I will say nothing else about it. I'll let it go right there. Next year, I was when I wanted most improved. I went from like being like the six seventh man until he put me in star lineup. He did make it up to me, so I'm forever grateful. Well, memories where you take from the two thousand finals experience against the Lakers shock of monster, I mean, you know you have to go through the finals and know that though, but it was different then. It was different then because in Orlando. It was like the younger, more athletic shock and then like later in his career, people got to see like the the powerful, like right in front of the rim shock, but like two thousand, like he was playing d on picking rolls still, like blocking shots, like he was blocking shots exactly, and he was like will against us. He was like forty and he's making his free throws. But but another great thing, man, is Kobe's coming out party. When he hit us with to get down and lay down. That was dope because he was arguing with their bench, Like I used to hear feel yelling that Kobe passed the ball, move the ball, get off of it. We're like, yeah, yeah, get off of it. I don't know what game he watches, right, and Shoq filed out and man cold, I love Cole so much. He went to work on us and then hit that jumper at the top of the kid and he did this that wasn't even to us, That was to his team because they didn't even believe he was looking at what he did and looking at oh no. When Cole first got drafted to the probably shouldn't say I'm just trying not to say too much of what I know. But like Cole was resented by his own teammates as old teammates. I couldn't believe it. They was hating on him. I'm like, why y'all gonna hate on him? Because he was that confident. But he he even like go out he dreamed. We was in college, he was Laker campus chilling. I worked out with him that one summer, and you know, Rob ended up being this agent. I was with them and Covid I you know, you'll there, We're gonna go out to the workout. Were gonna go get a massage. You know what I'm saying. I went to the little spot, little Burke Spine, Santa Monica or whatever I would and got it in. I'm in l A got my little spot in Santa Monica getting it in. He went back to the gym, and I ain't even realized he was doing it. He was going back to the gym, and so like for him to me to watch him from like ninety six when he got drafted and I wasn't even appreciated by his own teammates to like being that moment where Shaq was ended up being like the fourth first forty six minutes of the game, and he ended up being the last two. And that's why I started calling him like the remix of MJ. Because to me, he looked like m J. He sounds like m J, moved like MJ, and the next best thing, but he the next that thing. Man, ain't No, ain't nobody top Like. I love Brian and I know people we do all these top five lists, but every time I do a list, I do tell myself, why did I put Brian over cold? I say that, Yeah, I think he can't. I can't. Okay, Okay, I just can't. With all due respect, I don't. Yeah, you know what I mean. Bran is something that we've never seen before. He is the one of the once in the life Jo talent. Yeah. Still, that's good. I just it's a different animal when you're talking about being especially lining up against him and knowing him as a person, you know what I'm saying. When you know him as a person and you know him on the court, then you'll understand what we're saying. Man, when he torched us for eighty one, that Niggro didn't say one word. That commercial was hilarious to thank you, hey famous, Hey, Now somebody do one crawl sober crazy, so dog, that's why we had to take it because if he says something, now you can hack him, you can try to triple t you can try to hurt him or whatever. I don't I mean, but that's the game was just different, y'all, like football when you went over the middle back in the day. Yeah, I just just like the second file was harder than the first one. Sometimes that just how the game was. Quite a lot of people that don't like contact shooting jump Yeah, that's yeah, that that that the last four minutes of the game. Sometimes as long as right dog, he didn't say a word. He was like, I don't play golf, but I would assume it's like what tigers like locked in against the course. We were just ponds. We were just bugs on the windshield. It was incredible, and I wasn't go disrespect the game like I had already tried to hurt him in the finals pay back. I already tried that it works. I wanted to get injured. I just wanted to get hurt. Like he would have had three and I had one. What's the what's the what's the huddle? Like? Though, when he really starts cooking in the second half. What y'are saying in the huddle, Well, I'm telling I just saw Sam Mitchell at our kids volleyball games, So I mean to be like old wounds type of thing. But yeah, we're in this. We are in the huddle like dollars double. If you really look at that game, we just playing dog no dog. He's playing to three zone. You get eight zone. We're playing two three zone like didn't matter. It didn't matter. And for everybody like they want to do something special in their lives. Like I always used Kobe as an example because like his focus and discipline is incredible to me, Like I look at people like that like you can have it. I ain't willing to you can have it. That's what he had. He was consumed, obsessed by the game. We knew it. I told you he had to kill this. He was focused man, that he was different. How did that commercial come about? So no question? Shout to his lovely wife Vanessa and prayers to the family. I saw them. Um, yeah at the Palms Hotel. I used to go there. I used to play crash dash, like the comb and Milucy used to own the Kings or whatever. I used to be there a lot, and I think it was date night for him and the wife, and I saw them at the Telly. I mean I saw them at the restaurant, and of course I was gonna go in there and say what because I used to always going there, Like they just lost the dish I used to like, and I was like, damn, they go cold. Go say what up to him? And I looked down at the table and they had a few martinis on the table. I was like, oh, yeah, getting it in, okay, good, you know, congratulations whatever, whatever, And the image always stuck with me, and I was like, all right. And so when the idea was pitched to me initially about doing a pilot Jane and versus everybody, like a like a spin about like being in the media and being a single dad and all of that was pitched to me. One of the things we thought about was doing something that related to the eighty one point game. And we were talking more and more about it, and I was like, let's let's pretend he like something about eighty one Martinez. That's that. That's because because to me, it was just two of them and they probably had like four or five glasses. It looked like ten or left right. That image always stuck with me because I never saw him have fun right right, I never saw him have fun. I did you know? I didn't. I didn't until you called me and I went out with him and Kobe. I brought him out and what was its me? And to get it in up? Like jack, Jack you're doing, I'm like, ship, do whatever? Want to go out? Cold? Want to go out? You would always go to my room and I would go smoke and be what you're doing? So, I don't know, we Milwaukee, bro, Let's do something right there. And so literally, um, we asked him to be on NBA Countdown that morning. I think he had to arrive at like ten or eleven, and so we kind of wrote up the treatment and kind of sent them the idea of how I wanted to shoot the pilot and he loved it. And the thing is that I love so much about it is I gave that away. If you look at it, it has no logos on it, it has no advertisement, like I paid for that. I shot it. I put it out, my name not even on it. Like people see it and try to clown me, not realizing that it is mine. That I produced it. You see what I'm saying. I did that for him because like, I'm such a fan of his. And he took that and met a guy that worked on my show, Jalen and Jacobe, and he hired him and that became a production partner that he used become a war winning producer. Appreciate that, and he hired him to work for his production. I love the backstory because I never like, I was like, damn, they came with Jaden of that idea or that was cold, like I didn't know who it was, but it was super creative. It was dope. It was dope, man, And I appreciate him coming through and and not not to make it too somber, but like lost him way too young, man, last lost him way too young. He was really like, like the best, but he was so that's he was so obsessed. I mean we were talking to me. The next twenty years is gonna be bigger than the first. I'm like, damn, bro, he was the hell of a player at the corn I don't know how then, but he was dead being on the next twenties gonna be big an investment game going on, Like killing him man going way too soon man, going way too soon. D Um back to Indiana real quick before we get up at the Indian of the Days. The first person in eight years to lead the patients and scoring with the last name not being Miller. You're taking on a whole new role for this franchise. How did that make you feel? The person? I took pride in it. That was that was probably the most important year of my career. So this way you're six is sp exactly. And this is at a time where I signed basically two deals in the league, a seven year deal in a six year deal. That's kind of how it was now like players exactly. And so I thought I was gonna have an out after my fourth year, and I ended up going to arbitration and losing the arbitration, so I needed to play the six years. So this is like an important thing for me to go out and ball while I'm getting minutes. Larry's the coach, and the number one thing I want to say is that I appreciate Reggie for embracing me and a future Hall of Famer, and I saw him do that with you guys too. He did the exact same thing for us Jail when we first came y'all when y'all was balling. He wasn't jealous, he wasn't hating. He wanted to win. But when the game was on the line, we get a big shot, I ain't a worry about it. We don't give it to Redge. We don't give it to Redge. And if he shot the volume with threes, their players shoot now, oh my goodness. And he came off screens to see most of these guys spot up and shoes. He came on screens, he could do flair, single doubles, fades maybe maybe like three or four or five at the most. Yeah, it was like you missed one or two, you gotta drive, especially if you like six six or aboves like you. You set it for too many jump shots. Now that's normal. So that meant a lot to me. I worked a lot on my game. Rick Carlisle, he was somebody used to go to his hotel room at night, have a couple of beers or some wine, and he taught me how to watch film and how to come off screens and play with red and work hard on my game and work on my post game. And if Reggie gonna be coming off screens, you know if he comes off your side, you gotta be at the duck. Yeah, that's your chance to get you a bucket. Like oh basketball offensive minds in the league. Yes, yes, he like you like that right block, Reggie, come off that side, you can dunk right there. You can get you a post up. And then so so he really helped my game, and so it meant a lot that we were winning and we did something that the franchise hadn't did, sent did before then, and hadn't done since then. And to play against the Knicks that that yeah, because they had Spree and Alan Houston when Wire, Patrick Ewing and b Yeah, like they that was crazy. So to play and to beat them, and we played against AI, I think that's the Yeah, I want MVP. Y'alls. Hey, I get underrated by history too. You can't stop a No, it wasn't. Ai averaged over thirty. Then he would murder the leader. I'll put tent on that right now. Right now. I can't touch him because he was getting beat up, were beating him up, getting beat up, We was beating him up. Puttin on it right now. I can see him as easy. He made free throw ols too, and he became a three point shooter. He only shot like three three or four three because he was so fast. He didn't even have to shoot. People don't know how fast I was. Bro He the one created that little like hawk player. They throw on the ball and he swept through. You can't catch that, man. That's because he was so fast, like a football player, like a running back and go you go underpop back and sweeping. Yea two thousand, one thousand two season, ros was traded to Chicago Bulls with Travis Best and Normal Richard through your second round picking this change with Brad Miller, Ron Mercer. Run a test, Kevin, What was that? What was that like? Not a rush Street? What was your what was your mind? A lot of getting it in a lot of rush Street, A lot of testing my professionalism, you know what I mean. They got nine wins. It's February, it's cold outside. Man, I don't want to do this. You gotta want to do this. They got nine wins. They had the worst team in the league. I was pissed against shot Town, but that season was over. That wasted a whole year. So I was like, all right, I'm gonna go there and ball. In first game, they had nine wins. We went three straight my first three games. Yeah, Ron was in that trade. Yeah because the crazy thing and shout to Ron end up changing his name the meta like he was having some some some issues that he needed to sort through off the court, and I believe Brad was in the last year of his contract. So to them, they felt like they was rolling the dice. But like y'all was the best pacer team. Yeah, we and so I even I rooted for y'all as you know, like y'all was the best pacer team. And Ron obviously me and him being exchanged for each other. I remember like playing against the Pacers and going back to Indy and I think it was y'all was playing against the piss thing. Ya was playing against it, and I was. I was doing Best Day Sports show and it was dope for me because it was like the team that I played with. So the Simmons was there and knowing them and line and there's my hometown team. And I just remember like being a member of the Bulls, like I'm about to start my media career. So that's what I did. Literally, that's when I started my media career. But I wanted to be a pro I played eighty three games that year. People don't understand that. We used to pride ourselves on playing every single game everything. No one wanted to missing no games, every single gime I had. I had like a four game consecutive streak and I broke my hand. And like my brother, me and him used to talk about it all the time, like you gotta show up every day, you know, just because you get to the league and a couple of dollars or whatever, you know, I mean, not show up for work because that one game can change your life, that one played, that one move, that one whatever. And so yeah, we took pride to that. We made show we played because two things. One Hooper's real Hoopers that knew how to play, and they wanted to play. We didn't want to do that after the game workout, and we damn want to show for practice the practice. I wasn't doing that. Of that, I may show our playing because I'm not staying after that messed up the dinner time in the post game, not showing up for practice and workout. Want I don't plan on playing? Oh yeah exactly, fess club, Yeah exactly. After winning awardsn't taking paces to the finals. Were you excited about to move Chicago. I was excited to be in Chicago. I wasn't excited about the trade there because they had a bad record, but they did it the city of Chicago. It's fired. But you know what, actually one of the things I did in Chicago that I'm proud of, I really start taking more serious my foundation. I remember I had a celebrity weekend, like I literally got the idea from Magic. Magic was the only other person exactly you already know, yes, you already literally like spent it from Magic. And I did it at the United State and the game was at the United Stated. Friday night I had a comedy show it was said the entertainer De Ray Earthquake and D L. Hugley. And then Saturday I had the game and the Shanta did a halftime performance. Yes you know actually gotta do his press in and she turned in man right right, he was parking right And then like what was dope? As we had our night party and MJ came to represent be sure it is so like I had a celebrity weekend in Chicago, which was dope, But uh, I was just like I'm gonna be a pro show up every night and get buckets from Chicago three and a half. I was there. I was on it. I was on it. So you end up getting traded to the Raptors. What was I love Toronto off the court, one of the greatest places. What was what was the experience going like they're going over the border actually not being too far from home. But was that experience in Toronto? Like it was dope? I love the fans of Toronto. I still go back there and spend a lot of time. The one thing I hated about my experience in Toronto is that they trade events. That's where I went to play with events. I got there, I'm like, like he was going back and forth with the organization. It was like leaking stupid stuff about like where his mother parking. I'm like, man, that's Vince Carter man. I don't care. And the other thing is give him the ball. Give Vince the ball, move on, I don't thank you for drawing this up. It looks amazing by the time we get the half court, Give Vince the ball? What is we doing? Like y'all know he could shoot, crazy, athletic, he unstoppable. Get him going downhill. That that frustrated me so much that I came at a time where like their greatest player was at odds with the organization and it had nothing to do with basketball. Yeah, he has some injuries, and you know it wasn't healthy all of the time, but it's Vince Carter. And they traded while I was there, and I never forget it was like they did a trade to the Nets. I was like, was it for Jason Kidd and Richard Jefferson and Alonso already said he wasn't going to Toronto, And so now all of a sudden, you clearly a worse subvert, worse subversion of yourself, and you know that's that's that kind of disappointed my experience. So two thousand and seven comes, um, are you at piece of the decision? What drove you into actually saying it's time for me to step away and and see what's next in life? It was crazy. I had a chance to go play in Portland's I had a chance to go playing Washington at the end of that year, and I just played in Phoenix. We had the best regular season record. We lost to the Spurs. That's the year Robert orry hip check check to the board and uh MARII and uh got s Yeah that was dumb stupid. Yeah, I was done, like that rule is just stupid. Um. But anyway, and so I just remember telling myself like, damn, I'm I'm getting more I right at the beginning of the season, I was like, I can't be getting more tickets. Then I'm playing minutes right like damn, I got tent tickets and they played like five minutes. That ain't good. Yeah, like th ain't good? Like am I washed? And then I was like I became a part of the fitness club because Mike D'Antoni only play seven and a half players. He ain't even looking down at the other eight, like he's gonna play seven and a half maybe eight. The eighth player gonna play like twelve minutes or less. And I was in less And so in my mind I treated that year like it was my my last year. Like I made moves like if this is it cool? So when I got done, I had a couple of chances. I pondered it for a couple of weeks and then I just like I'm gonna started working in the media, and I took a job at ESPN. I was I was literally like doing NBA tonight and I was like coming on like to thirty in the morning. I was like graveyard ship being in Britain before NBA or ESPN was a hunt for the NBA. No out. This is like two hundred and fifty days in Bristol, Like you had to want to do this, like apple Bees at the most, you know what I'm saying. I learned a couple of spots there. I had like whatever cookies at the Hotel Bristol in the microwave. But yeah, it was It was a great opportunity for me to work in media. So I had already had like four or five year experience and so I was just like, I'm gonna go full time and do it. And that's your question, what are you doing? Fox and ESPN at one point. So that's why I always tell people, that's why I call you the blueprint. We both end up doing that too, But Jalen was the first, definitely to work Fox at the same damn at the same time I was doing. Because if you think about it, like you've got two sides to your brain, mm hmm. Like I said, you talk about a lot of stuff. They could just bring you on the play football. I know he played football, you know what I mean? And so what ended up happening. That's what I was talking about earlier. Don't just put us in the box. You could bring you on the top it maybe. And by the way, Dog, I love you, man, I love you too well. I gotta tell you something in particular. I want to talk about what you did with George Floyd, your brother man. And hey, Dog, you deserve a Nobel Peace Prime. You know, he and I are more like the quote unquote politicians than you. That was you, Dog, that's like that. That's why I'm glad Milwaukee won the championship because they were the first team not to play. I knew Janice was gonna get rewarded for nobody. Don't think of that. I know he was gonna get rewarded. I knew he was gonna get rewarded. They stood on the table that changed everything. You changed everything. I think he led the biggest protests in the history of our country, in the history. You know what I mean, Dog. I know, probably with your DMS, your emails and your corporate partners, probably we're saying to you, I lost a lot. I know, you know what I mean. But you know what, you didn't lose your integrity. I still got your than it ain't for sale. It is not for sale. Like you deserve a Nobel Peace Prize, bro, And if you ain't get it yet, you're gonna get one. You're gonna get one. Imagine that we're gonna smoke to that. Yeah, yes, and I might, I might too. Projects for real, that's a book for real, for real. Positives and negatives of being the face or one of the faces for ESPN in basketball for a long time too. I think, uh, I think one of the negatives is as a former player, sometimes they assume that we're replaceable. So like if you think about like the host to do the jobs, or the game announcers to do the job, or even the reporters to do the job, like they can have those jobs if they've proven to be good basically thirty years. But the former players, like well, Matt starting that he used to come fit team minutes early, not only coming four team minutes early. You know, like well you know it's such and such about to retire songs, so maybe you know, and so that's the thing I've always tried to like come back, like we have the ability to reinvent ourselves too, and when we prove that we're good at what we do, allow us to continue to ride like that. Like sho Be Brown be getting checks talking great basketball for a long time. Ain't nobody coming to him saying you slow down a little bit, or we're gonna replace you with somebody because a long time ago he proved himself to be elite, like we prove ourselves to be elite. But just because somebody that now is in the game about to retire and they're like, well, you know, we're gonna talk to Mad about replacing Jack. You know, you know this George Floyd stuff that he's doing. You gotta talk to you guy. I know you got those conversations. I know how this works. You know what I mean. Y'all got partners, he got partners. You got a family, he got a family. I know. That's why I love y'all. But we kept the real conversation right. I'm my biggest supporting the whole time. Y'allo wasn't put together by the label. It is organic, and so that's the hardest thing to me. Like being in that position is a lot of times it seems like I've proven myself. But in theory, what you don't realize is a lot of times they be poting to replace you. And it ain't even because you ain't good at your job no more. It's because you are vet now and you're more expensive, so we get the cheaper option. Yesterday's price is not today's prices, no doubt, can't be. Can't be. Touchback on co before we get up out of here. Where were you at the day you found out about his accident. I was in Miami and I was getting ready. My birthday is January and I was getting ready because we had the game. It would ended up being the first game since he lost, since we lost them. So I was already planning on going into l A that week, and when I heard the news and I digested it was happening. I don't say this because like I think I'm hard or like I think I'm tougher something, but like I've had a lot of like like things happen in my life, like you guys have to, like a lot of turbulent things. But this is probably sad, But not many of them make me cry, you know what I'm saying. Not many of them make me cry, Like I don't even want to relive some of the some of my toughest moments. But then when I look back at him, like I didn't cry, like when I heard about cold, I did cry, and um, I was at uh it was like this Brazilian restaurant. Um, and I was like I couldn't believe it. Yeah, And as I got more details about like what he was attempting to do, would he hope to get accomplished and would they hope to get accomplished? Travel from point A to point B, so that like he could continue to like be a mentor, dad and ambassador like I never met my father, and like I love watching him be a dad. Love watching y'all be dads because I had a time with my life when since if you're not with you know, your your ex or whatever, like that means time and space. And then when time and space happens, sometimes you don't necessarily have the best relationship with your kids. And I had that happened to me for a minute. So I always appreciate when I see Lebron and CP three and Steph like dad's you know what I mean, Like we need that, our culture needs that, because like they're not that imagery isn't embraced enough. That's why I love LaVar Ball. He was right, both of his kids getting the max starting at the point. He was right, and Cole was right what he did with the w n B A and how he loved the game, what he was doing with his daughter's daughter had games that move on the right side. She didn't turnaround jumper. She had games that's Maya Moore. I looked. I was like, that's Maya Moore. And man, I just I prayed for his family and not to get too political, but I was disappointed. It seemed like where his wife kind of couldn't come out of our with the shoe company. Man, I gotta get that right. They gotta come into the office with the blank check. That started to keep it g because that started before while he was still here. That started he was still not having his shoes continuing. Come on, man, because like come on, like like like all the players now that's they enjoyed, and you know what they're doing. They are recycling the shoes that's out, that's all they wear. You know what I'm saying, whatever checkbook, m J and Brian got y'all gotta be giving him that that that's what supposed to be happening. I ain't got to be in the room. That's what's supposed to be happening for them. Some real bullshit, you know what I'm saying. So like, we're gonna hold his legacy down. And that's why I loved I. One of the best things ever happened to me was I played in that game where he score eight one. That's one of my favorite like moments in my life because I now get to represent the legacy of Kobe Bryant the best way I can man, and he deserved that. He definitely deserves well. Him and Dwight Cool. So I could just say this, he donated to j R. L A two. He gave us some shoes. He was about to touch on that, Yeah he did. He donated to our school. He was gonna visit the school. And I was speaking at his camp the day he he he heard I should say that the day he heard Dwhite Howard was gonna get traded to them. How did that go? So? So, Cole take the call. I'm sitting there. I ain't gonna I'm sitting right there, and I might have heard some of the conversation, and I might have heard. Do I asking him about l A and you know, some of the off the court things and that's not his whatever the wrong questions D and Kobe got off the phone said this ship ain't gonna work. I'm talk to him about the party. That's exactly what he said. This is before he even laced up with him one time. He said his head ain't right. He said, mofo, I'm here to help if you get championships. That's it. We know him. You're asking me about producers like He's like, this ain't work. And so that's what I love about cod his dedication. It was almost psychotic. Y'all got an iconic moment. Yeah, I mean similar. I mean for people don't understand, like he came that that summer he called me and to come be a Laker, and then that's when we went from teammates to brothers to like really cool. That's how we got so close after that because he took my kids in and then post career, we're both coaching every weekend at the same tournaments, and he would come watch the twins, we would go watch g He would send the twins all their new shoes, the whole team, their new shoes. So that's what it's funny you said that with the one. I mean, it's not something that damn he gave us eighty one or damn my ball fake, But that was kind of our ways into the connection that we have for a lifetime with him, no doubt, and the Barnes boys killing him many trying to do their thing. Man, they're smart, they work hard. Mank you touch on. Man, Your academy, I think to me, is so far you see. I mean obviously with with with a lot of you know, just do Lebron's academy and what he's done is But but you, yours has been rolling. Your success rate, your graduation rate, your ability to give these kids an opportunity to go to college. I don't think that's spoken on enough. So you took your own home real quick before you do that. People don't know how hard it is to get that started. Oh no, we have to have participation of the city. You put it in because I spent a half million dollars on the gym in my hometown and they were supposed to come and help bring the school. We've never done it. So I commend you for getting done. Thank you for saying that because you can put all your chips in the middle of the table and it could be like driving down the freeway throwing the money out the window. That's what you just described with that money, right, And that's what could have happened to me because you got to get the charter authorized. That that's the one step. So here, I am hired basketball player, have a foundation. You know, I've helped forty kids go to college. I having done with that. Um, so I want to open the school. So of course people looking at me sideways or whatever, and I want to write a raise, whatever the costs gonna be, because I have to do that for two years before the school even opens. So I got to get it authorized. I gotta get a facility. I got to create a board. I gotta hire a management company. I gotta hire a staff. You need to recruit st your money me. She'll say, yes, the school ain't even open, you know, like it's this is, this is I haven't even thought about recruiting a student. It's not even And so to do all of that work and you could get denied and like a lot of people, and I didn't like this at first, Like when Lebron started a school. Like so many people like comparing what he's doing to what I'm doing or vice versa, like I'm older than him. You know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, it's not a competition. You know what I'm saying, It's not a competition. What he's doing is dope. Like I just said, k d Um donate ten ten million dollars to do something, and kyree Be donate money to do stuff like like the NBA family and like athletes from the NFL, Like we've done a great job of taking our fame, taking our money and like it reinvesting it in our people. And that's all the school was. I was like, I'm gonna do something that even if you don't like me, you ain't gonna block me or trying to hate because it's education. But the dirty secret in the United States, and this is why I wanted to really do it. I went to a public school. Unfortunately my kids go to private school. Is that the quality of education is defined by a zip code, right, and so I'm fortunate my kids private school. Thirty five forty thousand suburban public schools. You know, you get sixteen thousand for student in the city to try to get eight thousand, So K through eight, this student gets a hundred thousand dollars invested in their entire opportunity to go to college. Not just not enough, it's just not realistic, and it represents our people the most. And so like, I'm gonna change that. Not only am gonna start a school for high school, I'm all, I'm all influence them when they graduate, because you can't even really get a job with a high school Diployma, no more. Now you graduated though, you had the air, like you went to the league, like you like I don't have to tell you like point point point point point one percent, you know, And like most people can't get a job out of high school, even working at McDonald's. So we we have them take a sport through an extracurricular activity, and pick a trade while they're in high school. Just something that you might be passionate about though, right, And so now each summer we get them a college experience, We get them internships. So it's a holistic experience. It's not just about like the class work. It's about creating young men and young women that are leaders in the community. Because people look at us, it's like only see success if we graduate from Harvard. But I see success riding through the neighborhood now young people working at Wing, stop working at um of different restaurants and so working giving back to the community. So that's what Jerald has become. A nine through six team model. We now have a thousand students that we that we serve and it's been incredible being the number one school in the city of Detroit for college matriculations. Love it. You touched early in your early on in this conversation about social media, and you didn't have the ability to vent during certain situations. With the way social media is now, Um, how effective or how what kind of how important is it to this generation? Um, with your ability to speak your mind, have your own brand, all that stuff right at the palm of your hand. Oh, it's awesome because I remember being muzzled for a long time, and as a member of the five five, even or as a college athlete, they don't talk to the players. They talked to the coach, like the coaches to start so like, for so very long, other people told the world what to think about me, and I never got a chance to like express myself. So like, that's one of the reasons why I wanted to work in the media. So like like people seeing you guys now it's funny, Like I didn't know Jack, I didn't know Matt. Well, you weren't watching the listener, Like y'all didn't just start like expressing yourself that y'all can't be good at this now if y'all didn't have stuff to say the last twenty years, you've always been outspoken, right, And so like we need our voices, we need our outlets because people try to muzzle us and tell us to shut up and dribble and stick the sports. You know why, because we learned our power and our community. Money is power, famous power, and when you make it, when you make it, when I make it, you got to now go and reinvest. And if you ain't reinvest in to us, you sold out. You forgot where you came from. So I don't even look at it as doing anything. And I use social media in order to like just spread that word. Like I don't really to be honest, I want to use social media for like takes, Like I want to use it for like graduation or like like really doing stuff and promoting the things I'm doing. So like I worked for ESPN, I work on Jaylen and Jacobe, I do NBA countdown. Just the country just came from Doha and Cutter. It was it was awesome and and going to Cutter so out there though. So I was chosen to be a United States ambassador for the World Cup Games. Thank you and love and so now you go there. This is a country that just got developed in theory in twenty five years. So in shooting, whether you're in New York or l A, you walk around like, man, this is a great building, this is great infrastructure, or this is a great body of water. But that's old. Imagine having the money to like modernize everything. So like this is like a new like smart city. And so like going to the museum, you hear that words like boring whatever. When I was immaculate, like marble host cilans like areas to play like kids, was having fun, Like I felt like I was in a Side five movie. I'm just looking around the videos. I was like, I was like, this is incredible. Same thing when we went to uh they have a and Inspire like a workout facility. The same we went to a library, Like we went to a library, they had two million books and it seemed like they had two million computers like in the United States, were closing libraries like it's important to them, like it, and so like to see how they embraced their heritage and they spoke English, like I'm from Michigan. One of the largest populations of Arabs and Muslims are in the state of Michigan. So I've been interacting and understanding and appreciating their culture for a long time. So to get invited over there and to meet some of the most powerful people is a great experience. And I'll definitely plan on going back. Beautiful goals and got the new year coming up around the corner goals, that's a great one. Mmmm. I wish the Pistons could win the championship or the Lions can win a game my goals. Mm hmm. That's a great question. How y'all lose though, y'all always get the Thanksgiving games because that's our super Bowl every year. Yeah, let me teach the rest of the world something. Thanksgiving Day in Detroit, that's our Super Bowl. Y'all watching the football game. We're having a parade. Marea there, Marvin Gay there, big there, y'all just missing out that's our super Bowl. And so but they helped make the league a lot of money because they were the first team that wanted to play on Tursday. Now they got Thursday night Football, So that's why they kind of got Grandfather then. But my my two goals. Wow, I actually I'm glad I gett asked this question. I would believe that I want to expand my school. Okay, like ten years and we've never had a home game because I took over an elementary school and converted into a high school. And by the way, I didn't have a blank check standing behind me to start a school in Detroit full of black kids, right that was But I'm gonna do this. And so one of the challenges that we have is that we get zero stay funding for a facility. I converted a middle school and turned it into a high school. So we have an elementary school gym that we call a Cathanasium. You know, old school tables out of the walls, and that's like that's what we currently have at the school. And so right now, UM, how much would it take not to cut you off to build a state of the RGM. So right now, UM looking to raise like eight to ten million dollars. I've raised maybe like three and a half of it, um, but I'm really working to get the rest of it because when we do that now, I'm gonna really termed limits in the lemonade because on the northwest side, if you ever know anything about Detrade, it kind of gets forgotten. When people come to Detrade, they swoop in downtown. They're swooping Eastern Market like it's it's really segregated. People never invest in that neighborhood that I grew up in. So just to have that building that's new in that neighborhood is gonna be incredible for the community. Because I opened it up for voting for vaccinations, um, the parents are going to have their opportunities to like for mental health and wellness and stuff like that. So I wanted to be a community hub, and so I believe it's gonna happen. But I went from needing like six million dollars in the price of labor going up with COVID and now other work. They need to get done with the roofs, so it's like a up to a ten million dollar job. So people watching this, where can they inquire about possibly helping where can they go to j r l a Detroit dot com. At the end of each August, we do a fundraiser. I've been doing it for ten years and that's the next goal. I've reached out to Stephen Ross of the Miami Dolphins and he's gonna donate. Tom Gores of the Detroit Pistons and Platinum Equity. They've been invested, They've been donating and working with Jeep as well. So I got a lot of great sponsors, but it's gonna take a lot more. So definitely appreciate you know, I didn't inquire letting know if me and Jack can come out there and help race just the charity to make it to the hook. Yeah, y'all, when y'all look back at when I started to school, it ain't no blame check standing behind me. We did not have a Marquis. We got a little Marquis now every Friday. We used to have to have a student go up there and change it. And so we've come a long way. So I appreciate that we've had you go, We're gonna uh ended right here, man. First thing to hit your mind. Let us know court side of any sporty being a history which one would it be? And why court side of anything? I would say if I needed to be court sor ring side of anything. Yeah, Floyd and Mike they retired, so that means history history and history history. Oh um uh Mohammed Ali Fight. I've been able to go to a lot of fights and sit front row and have great seats and stuff like that. But if I could have gone to Muhammad Ali fight, out have been crazy. One album that you list to no skills, No, you can listen to repeat. There's a lot of them. You're hip hop is so it's gonna be help for you. There's a lot of them. Um, reasonable doubt, Thematic, that's what who Yesterday? Southern Playeristic, that's a good one. Um jeez, Mr Scarface m hmm, that's a good one. Shout out to Scarface doing good now missing Mrs Scarface album? Um, so many what about I'm gonna give you one more? What about we'll give your R and B? What about like? What about like a key sweat? I'll be sure in effect mode for Mary j My life, my life and right remember Web did that commercial to uh my life. Remember cab was driving the trail Man. We produced a song for nas on the album dropped a single one Corrupt and red Man. Yeah, this is kind of off the chart, but your top five m c s of all time, this is controversial. Some people do it east coast, West coast version. You can do however you want. All right, I'll go because okay, here's a good way for me to do it. Like I was born in seventy three, and that's kind of as raps started to mature. So like when I was little, like Mellie Mill was the king at first, Like the message when I first happened like broken glass everywhere when he hit that, a dog can't take the smell, can't take the noise that's in the front room, like he was um. And then it became run DMC. Yeah, when they hit that, uh that that first album that that that rock box album, the Sucker MCS, it was just like like that was crazy. And then uh l l Erry being rock him. They came Caress One, Big Daddy, came Iced Tea, That's six in the morning. Like I ain't gonna say some of the places I was hanging out listening to that record, but if that record was like an image, you know what I'm saying, Like that that that song is worth a thousand words. So I love that. And then in w A like I love w A. They were in Detroit when the whole Firecracker thing happened. When they ran on stage. That was at that show, no doubt. I was there. I was there. I was at that. That was crazy. The police did it, damn yeah, police did it. Yeah yeah. So like Solo, mc s don't like just spit bars. Jan Nash well, I got a first poc big. You know what I'm saying, Pop the Goat. So let me just make sure before I even I just want to make sure everybody on the same page about you Pop the Goat, Like I'm like, there's a song called What's Up with the Love? What's Up with the Love? A lot of people don't even realize. That's when I used to go to the Bay for Summer Jam, and that's when Park was still with Digital Shout the money Be Shout to Clean, shout the shock, rest of piece, those my people. And when you look at that first pod Dot money Be had a Michigan five jersey on, like though, like that's Park should have had that role in minute. Imagine the Park wh the brother you know how to see Park had the cap jersey from Yeah he had Yeah and so but like ever sees, I'm gonna take off Park, I'm gonna take off big rest in peace. Ja nas Man like Ja nas Um caress one just say because he's a real hip hopper story and bro really think it. Remember what Caress one was coming back from you? He's like Genesis chopped the leven verse ten oh, like Shim was a black man in Africa. The beat this rap. They can't laugh at you. I was like, um shout the public Enemy too. They just got a Chuck D like he Chuck D took a lot of bullets for us. Chuck D and Public Enemy they took them in in the B A and two Live Crew, Luke, they took a lot of bullets for hip hop for Shure. But uh j nas caress one Andre three thousand nice like that three k yeah man, y'all get at your job. Y'all let him think you're supposed to interrupt. You're supposed to let this one time with Jennie when we as Jennie bust the top five Lakers and we intruded. But she's taking heat and not having certain people on that list of the ye I would say, I gotta put on who wanna put scar Face? That one? I love scar Face? Man, he gets so underrated and cue I just got to mention que shout out. Yes indeed, uh top five sports movies all time? Yeah, I was. I was on William Gates team and I remember thinking like, I don't know all these cameras following him and he about to be playing over me. Yeah dog, because they had the one through five and then you go like two through six and then three through set like to do the lineups. And I noticed that they had him at one and they had me at six. I'm like, naw, dog, I don't know a game, y'all trying to run. I don't know what this is, but it ain't going down like this. But unfortunately ended up getting hurt. He got hurt, he heard his knee bad and so uh but the room hoop dreams, um remember the Titans Rocky and uh, I'm glad I remember Rocky. Well, that was a TV show. Was a coolie high COOLi high cost Pittsburgh. That's when I was little. That was classic. Yeah, cheese, no doubt. You can only bring three sneakers to your work trip, which ones you're bringing three three pad Kicks, Walma Puma everything now and they support the school because we get zero stay funded for the facility or for sports. Y'all know public schools ain't gonna have sports in twenty years. Really, that's crash sad. Yeah, so I'm bringing the Clade sways. I love those like I remember one of the break we breakdancing, you know, b Street breaking crush proof, we breakdancing. So I always wanted some some suavee Pumas with some thick shoes strings in them. It's crazy people used to be getting shot kill for them. Um. So yeah, some Pumas, some Clade, some Rouse and some black fives. Five dinner guests dead are alive? Dinner guess Pocket Big. I love him so very much, Muhammad Ali Kobe. I want to I want to split the baby with mL K and Martin Luther King, I mean Martin Luther Kim and Malcolm X. Yeah, Detroit Red, Detroy Red. If you can get anybody on all the smoke, who would it be? But before you you have to help us with you as Okay, I'll try. I think you could do a better job at me, Jack, But you gotta get Kyriel here. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been. That's how you gotta get on the internet because you don't speak. Yeah, we gotta get Kyriel. I've been. I've been on his line to a dog about it. I can't the same Michelle to Michelle's my old assistant. I know he got a lot to he got. He got mad asshole, but I'm starting being an asshole because I got like nine misses without a reply. So hey, we know you got a lot to say. Man, we want to hear from you. Bro. We love you. Like it's George Free zone and this is the only place where you can control your own area. This this George Free zone. Like it takes integrity to walk away from eighteen million dollars. You gotta want to do that, you know what I'm saying, because because I ain't doing it, I don't think I can do it. If it will be eighteen million dollars. You better have my last name, like I better birth you. You know I'm saying that. I think about that. I don't know to do something like that if I know somebody gonna take care of my kids if I can't. You know what I'm saying I know that they're realistic, so I can't. I can't put my kids in that position. I applaud that man for standing on it, but yeah, you heard it. We need you, um before you get up out of here. You've been synonymous with having one of the cleanest hairlines and can't get out of and on TV. So we've asked a few people this Jason Tator was one. Who else? We just had someone else too? Who uh right now, Ben Bleep clean his hairlines in the game Blee got sick. I would say VanVleet, keep us sick on, Paul George, keep us sick not now we're talking about part It's not fair dog because like I know, he don't even have to get a cut. He don't even care. It's way down here. And you know, the funny thing is that when people think I got faith here, but like I did something like I don't love y'all that much, Like I had the ball head. You know what I'm saying, Like you say you don't want me to get my ball head back? You know what i'man. But I would say, Jason Ta, don't keep it. Chrisp War, I'm glad you brought off VanVleet. How about Aaron Donald taking his helmet on and on. He keep refreshing to one man and Blee talked about it. I don't know, DJ Augustine have a fly one TiO, and I just like now that these casts are about, like giving back to the community, taking care of their bread and being fly. I like that being them. I like seeing them getting real money. They're getting it too. They get real money like forty Like I love you, John Wall, just take your time. They don't want to play you man, cash them check stog, don't apologize at all. They like, we don't want them to get hurt. So we're gonna pay them to not play forty A man, I am not mad at it. I love it. I love it. Before we get out of here, man, we got one of our partners, man escapes box with everything to keep you keep your right, so you know you know yeah, And I gotta tell you all the secret because I ain't gonna lie because we're family. Just yesterday, I cannot make this up. I've been traveling. I went to do hook Cutter and then I laid over in d C. And yesterday I was about to get me some some clippers the most shavers so I can zoom zoom zoom. Shavers got a little light on them, guaranteed to be nick free. I need that, guaranteed to be I need that. I need that. I'm a lot taller when I use these problems. You know what I'm saying, shout. We appreciate y'all. Hey man, but that's a wrap all the slows my brother Jaden Road. Then we appreciate you. Thank you very much. You're catching some Showtime Basketball YouTube and the I Heart platform Black Effects. Yes five, yes, sir, this is all a smoke. 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