Enhanced Performances

00:00:15
Speaker 1: Recording Destiny.

00:00:17
Speaker 2: It's an emergency.

00:00:19
Speaker 1: It is an emergency, Kitlin, it's an emergency.

00:00:22
Speaker 3: You can hear the sirens maybe in the background of my Brooklyn apartment once and not future apartment.

00:00:29
Speaker 2: I'm moving back to Manhattan.

00:00:30
Speaker 1: I'm thrilled to say, thank.

00:00:32
Speaker 3: God, it's been too long and moving on back.

00:00:35
Speaker 1: I'm coming back.

00:00:36
Speaker 2: It's Brooklyn is overrated. I'm over it.

00:00:39
Speaker 3: Also, I tried to play tennis this morning in some fifty degree weather and my limbs just didn't work. So I think winter tennis is now officially indoors for me.

00:00:50
Speaker 4: Well, have faith, Kaitlin, because I know that it's getting up to the mid to latter sixties in the next couple of days, so there's still time for you.

00:00:58
Speaker 2: No, no, no, that's wrong.

00:00:59
Speaker 3: It's going to be sixty at most at most this fall.

00:01:03
Speaker 2: Freet it.

00:01:03
Speaker 3: I'm grappling, I'm trying. I'm liking full more. I'm watching a lot of tennis indoors. But one thing that the tennis is giving is it's giving drama, which is why you're recording an emergency podcast. I mean, really, truly, this is just like our weekly podcast, but it's more fun to call it an emergency pod because there's been some insane news based on former world number one Simona Hallup testing positive for a banned substance very recently.

00:01:33
Speaker 2: Walk us through what has happened?

00:01:36
Speaker 4: Well, I mean you're as I mean, I mean, I'm sort of speechless with it because I'm so shocked by this because and you know, I've tweeted about it, I've written my thoughts a little bit on the subject. I mean, it's hard to know because until the full scale of you know, what has happened comes out and what happened and how it happened, you know, I'll sort of reserve completeudgment. But I have to say, Caitlin like knowing Simona like I do, and I think I know her fairly well. She's just a really good kid. You know, I don't know how to describe it. You know, somebody asked me on you know, Twitter, like you know, who is the person to do this? Like, you know, it's like she's just not that person. Well, and the reason I say that as one, I just I don't feel or see her as being somebody who would first of all ingest something that was maybe questionable to her body, but also just she's just a pretty honorable kid, you know what I mean. And just from conversations I've had with her, she doesn't get into sensationalizing things.

00:02:40
Speaker 1: She doesn't really want a gossip like.

00:02:43
Speaker 4: She just she's just a good kid. So I just I was so surprised by this, and my first thought was, you know, you know, she's got a new team over the last year, you know, have they had her sort of you know, taking a new supplement, which is very possible, Caitlin, and even they don't know, sort of like they didn't do research. I'm grasping at straws at this point because.

00:03:09
Speaker 3: Let me back up and just sort of walk through the news, which is very recently, the International Tennis Integrity Agent announced that they were suspending Palla provisionally after she tested positive for the band substance rocks a dust at, which is also basically an anti anemia medication. It trades under the brand name Avrenzo, and it inhibits blah blah blah blah blah. Basically, it sounds like it makes more red blood cells, which obviously would be helpful. And it's one of these sort of like seemingly like endurance kind of aids where kind of similar to when I took the incredibly great meldonium brand name Milder Nats substance that got Maria Sharapova banned. I similarly had a great experience and got a lot basically like a lot fitter and less stiff within a matter of days upon taking it. So this seems to be in that category where it's like it makes your body feel better and it allows you to recover. She took positive for it, and now that means she has you know, she kind of already shut down her season. She'd already announced that she was, you know, getting some rhino plast ye earlier this year because I guess she'd had some breathing problems for a long time. Obviously, this first year was her maiden tour season with coach Patrick Moradi Glue, So that kind of fills in some of the gaps based on what you were just saying, which is she's got a new team. She's had some ups and downs with that team this year, and I think the reason that so many people are shot, including Patrick Morada Glue, who is her new coach, who came out and very to me, very strenuous objected to the idea that she would ever cheat, which is align with what you just said, which is anybody in the tennis space is really baffled by how this happened. Now, let me ask you, is there are people and I won't ask you to name them, but there are people on the tour where if they test a positive, you'd be like, yeah, sure that makes sense. Is that is that fair to say?

00:05:22
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:05:22
Speaker 4: I think Look, if there were some that tested positive, you'd be like, okay, okay, Like you know, and I'm not going to say names, but obviously you would be like, oh, that sort of makes sense. You know, they had an incredible rise for a year and then they disappeared, you know what I mean, Like or you know, they played great for two years and was ranked in top ten and now they've never been seen again.

00:05:41
Speaker 1: Like maybe maybe that's possible.

00:05:42
Speaker 4: But I think the thing that really helped me also feel better about me sort of thinking that this is an error in judgment and not a yeah, let's do this. I want to cheat, you know physically, is you know Darren Cahill's Instagram message that he put out when he strenuously said every time or any time she was taking something, whether it was for who knows, like a cold or sickness or whatever, you know, And players do have to do this all the time, Caitlin, whenever they're taking anything for a sickness or an ailment or any kind of something going on in their lives, you know, And it could be it could be something medically that a doctor says, well you've got this now, and so you need to take that. You know, the first thing you say is is it banned? And you know, Darren said on a very strenuously I think way more than what Patrick said. I mean, he said she. I mean, he gave instances of when she did take something she adamantly said three or four times, is this okay? Is it on the band list? Can I take it?

00:06:46
Speaker 1: Are you sure?

00:06:47
Speaker 2: Are you sure?

00:06:47
Speaker 1: Are you sure?

00:06:48
Speaker 4: And I mean he was around her more than anybody has in the last decade, and he said that's how she would approach anything that she was putting into her system. So I don't understand why, you know, someone who was around her for you know, good four or five years, you know, it makes a statement like that that adamantly says she was very very on top of making sure that it was okay. So then all of a sudden, you know, being positive for something. It just seems out of out of you know, not context, but out of character for her to you know.

00:07:19
Speaker 2: To.

00:07:21
Speaker 3: She's a veteran, right like, if she were, it's hard to imagine. It is kind of similar to the to the chess scandal that has been capturing everyone's imagination, which is probably, aside from the Queen's Gambit, the first time you can say that chess has captured the world's imagination, at least recently, you know, with respect to like Wobbi Fisher, like or Gary Kasparov.

00:07:48
Speaker 2: The fact that this.

00:07:49
Speaker 3: Guy came out of nowhere won a whole bunch of chess tournaments with very sketchy moves and sort of weird behavior that not moverment and people had seen before a good example of when something feels off. Somebody comes out of nowhere, is playing incredible and then when you think, how could it be possible that they were cheating, which now this guy has been you know, obviously like scandalized. You know, this, this scandal has has sensationalized the entire chess universe. It seems pretty likely that guy was cheating. Simona Help is not somebody who came on to the scene yesterday. She's won a Hampfog Grand Slams, she's won Wimbledon, in the French Open, and she's been you know, pretty consistently in the top ten or twenty at least for a decade. Right, Like, yeah, this is it is a little bit weird to think that right now right here, you know, But doping, I don't know, doping in sports is so strange, like especially with tennis, like a lot of times it's been you know, some of these things are legal one day and then not the next, which is why I really defended Maria Sharapova when she got tested for maldonium, tested positive, and it was right within month's time of the drug being deemed illegal, so it had gone from being safe and over the counter to not not you know, not allowed, and then it was still maybe in her system even though she had stopped taking it. We don't know, like we don't know what the shelf life is, we don't what the metabolism time is. And you know, I took the drug. It obviously was great, But to me that always like seemed a little bit harsh, and they were making an example out of her. You know, Richard Guskier got busted with you know, cocaine in his system, but he said he kissed someone at a nightclub. Obviously, Sarah Ronnie's really really famous one.

00:09:37
Speaker 2: You know, my mom's tote me like what.

00:09:40
Speaker 3: Like you know, it fell in the medication, fell in the tortolini and the like.

00:09:45
Speaker 1: Right, how Italian is that?

00:09:47
Speaker 3: It's also definitely not true.

00:09:49
Speaker 4: Like definitely not true. Well that's a good example, right. You know, she had a phenomenal year or two. You know, I got to number two in the world ye.

00:10:00
Speaker 3: Finals, didn't She didn't she make a final of at least the French Open.

00:10:04
Speaker 4: She met the French Final and everyone was like, well, like, I mean, good player, but you know she can't even serve anymore. So I mean, and I mean, I like, I like Sarah, we're buddies. But it's like that was a bit dodgy, and that was somebody who kind of came out of nowhere.

00:10:20
Speaker 1: For about two or three years, it was just lighting the world on fire.

00:10:22
Speaker 4: I mean, she's went singles and doubles and like Grand Slams and every I mean it was crazy. So I mean, who's to know, right, Who's to know? And you can speculate or you want, I mean this, but this situation with some mine just she's such, she's a shy kid and and like and a good kid, and you know, the transformation in the last you know, there's definitely a change you know with you know, her team. That that is a question that is inevitably has been asked a lot of over the last month now about that because you know, unfortunately for Patrick and his team, they're they're they're a part of it now and he's going to adamantly have to sort of or his team are going to have to. I'm sure at some point that someone's going to get thrown under the bus there and you know, but Simona is the one that's going to pay the price. I mean, there's absolutely no doubt in my mind we're not going to be seeing her for about two years, if we ever see her again. I think it's a it's a sad story in tennis. I think there's no way getting around this. And because it was Inner System and.

00:11:29
Speaker 3: Play Devil's Advocate, because I I just you know, if we list players who've been tagged for banned drugs, I mentioned and again tagged is sort of I'm using that word is doing a lot of work in the sentence because in some cases there was a positive test but no real repercussions. In other cases it was like a big deal. Like we're talking about like luminaries of the game, like Matt's the Lounder, Maria Sharapova, Maren Chilich, Martina Haiges, Richard gaskeag who I mentioned earlier, you know, Beatrice Hadad Maya, Like these are like a lot of players. There are also a lot of players, you know, if you look up the use exemption players, players like Serena Williams, players like Bethanye Madi Sans who are taking medications with permission of the authorities, sometimes because they might have a cold, or maybe they have an underlying medical condition and need riddling, which I've heard is pretty pervasively used on both tours by men and women, which maybe.

00:12:32
Speaker 2: I should get riddlin.

00:12:33
Speaker 3: You definitely need Redalan Jesus, Like, imagine what that could do for you if you have severe attention deficit disorder and it's related, you know, cousins like ADHD.

00:12:47
Speaker 2: Maybe that gets you to baseline.

00:12:49
Speaker 3: But if you have a mild case, maybe you're at an advantage right, like, so I'm not wholesale, although I have, in one of my more provocative Twitter provocations, made the case that like, I'm not sure doping matters all that much, which I don't necessarily know if I mean, but I definitely feel like the gray area here is just massive, massive, Like is it possible someone to help was taking something without intending to cheat? But the gray area of whether this was gonna be a problem or not was big enough that it seemed like, oh, well, that's the cold medication I always take, or like, oh I always take this from my cramps, Like is there a world in which it's not it? It definitely doesn't feel black and white to me on the outside. Is there a world in which in the tour it's also similarly a gray area? Is it possible that somebody not intending to do like outright cheating like I'm gonna inject steroids into my veins, but rather like, oh you know what, I have a Redlin perspective prescription already, so why wouldn't I just like double dose on the days I have matches so I can like really focus? Like is that cheating under the strictest definition?

00:13:57
Speaker 2: Absolutely?

00:13:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is other definitions. I'm pretty sure that's happening from what I thought.

00:14:04
Speaker 4: Why, well, I think in the long term, like you know, when you think about Maria for example, you know, and a lot of people suspected like that.

00:14:14
Speaker 1: You know, it helped the long you took it.

00:14:16
Speaker 4: You know what it's like, you know, when you get to the third set, you're feeling pretty good because you're.

00:14:20
Speaker 1: Not as you're not as exhausted.

00:14:22
Speaker 4: So that's an advantage, you know, and I can I know, you know, one of our very good friends under Epekovich and different players like that are like Jesus no wonder, I was fucking tired in the third set and she was fine, like you know what I mean. So so yeah, there's definitely was and could be an advantage in taking something that somebody else is not taking.

00:14:42
Speaker 2: Now.

00:14:43
Speaker 1: Absolutely for years and years she was taking.

00:14:45
Speaker 4: That and it was not on the band substance list.

00:14:48
Speaker 1: So yeah, so where's the gray area?

00:14:50
Speaker 4: Then all of a sudden it is what you've just finally discovered that it can help you and help you breathe better and help you, you know, have longevity on the court. Okay, well that should have probably been looked at earlier. But if not, then it's absolutely okay. And she was completely in her rights to do it, as was every other player. So yeah, I think the gray area comes down to how much did it help you on the court against me? Right, So, you know, cocaine in the system Hingus and gas gay and probably not.

00:15:21
Speaker 3: Going to help me, right, or moments of helping you. It's definitely gonna have moments of actively not helping.

00:15:28
Speaker 4: So I mean you think players would be like, yeah, no big deal, Like Hingus is in the Hall of Fame, but she had a drug.

00:15:33
Speaker 1: You know, it was.

00:15:35
Speaker 4: Cocaine, so it's just like fine, you know, whereas Sarapova, you know, and I got into trouble with her agent for saying this, and I like Marie and she worked for us off and listened. She you know, achieved a tremendous amount in her career. But I said, on I said, what are the Hall of Fame going to do? Because she's technically the first player, well now second to be a lock in the Hall of Fame that now, what are the Hall of Fame going to do? Because they've never had to deal with this in the past, and so now they have two lock Hall of famers in Maria Sharpovra and Simona Hallup that have been you know, credibly accused and in one case and Maria's and soon to be I'm sure in Simona's case of being banned from the tour for taking a ped. So they're very different to you know, getting caught, you know, snorting coke, Like that's a different situation. The players would be like, who cares? But the ped is a whole different story. That's when players would have gotten pissed off. And I know a lot of players, and I've spoken a lot of players in Maria's case that were just angry at about that, you know about at some point they didn't realize how much it was helping her clearly and with Simona. Now unfortunately, until you know this this has come to a conclusion, players are going to have to wait and see. But you know, the respect level for Simona in her ability of ever hanging matches, you know, that's sadly going to be questions. And that's what I said about Maria, you know, sadly her her results prior to her band will be questioned. And I said at the time, sadly because you still got to hit the ball in the court, right, you still got to manage the way you play tennis and new anxieties and all that sort of stuff. But certainly we all know when you get exhausted, you make some pretty terrible decisions on the tennis court. And you know, there's no question that that would have helped her.

00:17:21
Speaker 3: I got roundly, roundly, roundly criticized. Even friends came out of the woodwork to say that I was being a bonehead, which is with what Simona no, with just the idea that like who cares about doping?

00:17:35
Speaker 1: Like oh yeah, such a waste of everybody's.

00:17:37
Speaker 3: Time, Like because for me, it's like just one big gray area. But I do think, you know. And also the thing about tennis, unlike a sport that is so reliant on speed or so reliant on power.

00:17:51
Speaker 2: It's like if I'm going.

00:17:52
Speaker 3: To be facing off in a huddle and like we're playing rugby or American football and the person across has been juicing and their body is going to train wreck mine, Like yeah, if it's a situation where like, oh you know what, tennis is still really really really hard and you still have to make not only technique wise, like a good showing, but you also have to, you know, deploy good shot selection, keep your wits about you, you know, stay in the moments, stay present. Like it to me sometimes feels like it's not. It's so skills based that it's less important if you are taking drugs or not. However, I think the point you just made makes me reconsider that stance, because you do make terribly stupid decisions if you're tired, and being tired is such a disadvantage that it is really hard not to argue that if you're taking a drug like roxa dust, which is what Simona was caught within her system, or meldonium or one of these other ones that like increases the efficiency at which your body operates, basically, you don't have a massive, massive advantage. So I think I'm sort of walking it back, although I might just leave it up on Twitter to keep provoking people. So you know, I don't know that I have the answers, but it does seem like this is pretty bad, And I guess what I want to push.

00:19:14
Speaker 1: You on is.

00:19:17
Speaker 3: Simona's been premptively banned. The world is pretty divided. Pam Shreiver started going after Patrick Moradiglo. Others have been more cautious. I was really happy to see the PTPA maybe be useful for ones, which is saying that they're going to investigate and try to get some clarity, like all of these different agents and governing bodies. What a great time it would be no time like the present everybody to just get all aligned and everybody's shit together and like make some I don't know protections or clear rules or I don't know, like do you see there being any upside here where we could maybe you know, use this as a teachable moment and actually get the tours to do something I don't know better or more more player friendly.

00:20:05
Speaker 1: I mean, you.

00:20:07
Speaker 4: Asked the player that's just been accused, absolutely right, and there's no question like we you know, it's funny because we had a we had our tit for tat Ying Yang moment last week, you know, talking about egishiantech and sort of like was that hindrance or not? And I said, well, I went to the rule book. Well which rule book did I go to? I went to all of them, Caitlin, and they were all frigging different. So you know, that is a perfect personification of the complete and utter mess of professional tennis and tennis in general, is that.

00:20:38
Speaker 1: We aren't under one umbrella.

00:20:39
Speaker 4: So yes, this would be a teachable moment for the tours to come together.

00:20:43
Speaker 2: For sure.

00:20:43
Speaker 4: In my opinion, ATP and WTA almost should join. I think it would be a stronger asset for everybody. And I think in circumstances like this, and there's no question that you would have an aligned group of players and player representatives, you know, going after and fighting for the players as opposed to like having to go through the tournament and the agencies and the Grand Slams and the ITF. I mean, god, it's like I can't even think about how many entities there are in tennis. So yeah, absolutely, this would be a great opportunity to have a players union that really sticks.

00:21:21
Speaker 1: Behind its players.

00:21:22
Speaker 4: And also if a player is deemed to be in the wrong, to be able to stand up for the other players, right that have been screwed over in this situation, if somebody has knowingly taking a drug that you know, we didn't think they were, that's yeah, I mean, so this could be this is a positive and a negative possibly for Simona, right the Simona would have people behind her that would support her, and players would support her until proven absolutely guilty, until.

00:21:49
Speaker 1: We know what and how this happened.

00:21:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's also strange to think that ahead of the US Open, when players have got to know that's like the most stringent time you're going to be tested. I mean I know that having been tested many times, as I'm sure you have.

00:22:09
Speaker 1: I know you got too many times.

00:22:11
Speaker 3: Like we got disportionately tested when I was on the women's Tennessee at college because they had to meet a quota of urine tests and they weren't keen to knock on the doors of all the football and basketball players. So the women's wonder why was over indexed in the results when tests were randomized. So I remember getting almost monthly for some of the years, like a drug test, and you know, like the only thing that was in my system was like you know, Keystone light beer, So there wasn't very much to to you know, but like I certainly wasn't, you know, doping, And I think occasionally people would get caught with marijuana, which to me, if you're a do you want athlete who's able to play using marijuana, like more more power to you?

00:22:54
Speaker 2: Like great, you know, hats off.

00:22:56
Speaker 3: So I've always had this like sort of weird distrust of drug tests, not because I don't think people should be playing fairly, just because I don't.

00:23:05
Speaker 2: Know how we draw the lines and what those lines are.

00:23:07
Speaker 3: That said, there is no way you go into a Grand Slam not knowing the way that at the beginning of the school year, every single athlete on every single team for the NCUBA requirements knew that we were going to get drug tested. Like you you don't have there's no mystery to that. And so the fact that she got got is so crazy to me. And she seems pretty spun out for I mean, I don't want to pile on here, but like, you know, in addition to the other stuff that I that we talked about, like she lost in the first round to like somebody who never won a professional tennis match, you know, she got a divorce, like it's she's got a new coach. Like it seems like whatever's going on with Simona is like pretty strange, you know, like I don't know how to make sense of it.

00:23:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, me, me, Needa and I listen.

00:23:50
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously, if if it's true and she was taking it and unbenigns to anybody again. Then, as I said in the original to you know, this is terrible. But the second tweet was more about how I really feel, like, I really I'm shocked, and I just I want to believe that, and I said it in the tweet, I just can't believe that she would take something.

00:24:15
Speaker 1: Like this knowingly. And I really do believe that.

00:24:18
Speaker 4: And look, she's been tested at nauseum like every other top player has been tested at tournaments, you know, at home, like the amount of times I got knocks on my door at six thirty in the morning because that was my allotment time of like when I was home, and it is and you are literally every single day. You have to tell Wada where you are every day. And so you know, if for some reason you decide to go and visit a friend for the night and you forget to change your wider form and they come knocking on your door, bomb, that's one. You know, they say that that's one mark against you, and you have three in you're out. And that's happened a couple of times to players. I got to two one time, and mainly because I was I drove somewhere and I forgot, you know, that about my tech.

00:24:59
Speaker 1: I mean, it's what fun.

00:25:00
Speaker 4: You know, you're monitored every single day while you're a professional athlete.

00:25:04
Speaker 1: So I don't know.

00:25:06
Speaker 3: I just remember that whole thing where famously they couldn't like alis a cornee wouldn't come to the door like she was like sleeping or something and water. I was like outside and they're like, well we knocked three times, so now you're in trouble. She was like no, but there was in the shower like you cannot you know you. I did not use the dobell or whatever it was. It was as as possible.

00:25:24
Speaker 1: I mean I was.

00:25:25
Speaker 3: I actually took her sade as I often do, where I was like, well this sounds like a reasonable You guys didn't try very hard, and now she's well you.

00:25:32
Speaker 4: Could have me. One time where I was driving back from Orlando when I was living in Tampa and I was driving back from Orlando where my fitness trainer was and it's an hour drive and they just turned up to my house.

00:25:43
Speaker 1: And my gate. I was in the gated community. The gate called me. He's like, oh, people from blah blah blah. He'd test, said that they're here to test you or something. I was like fuck.

00:25:51
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm a half an hour away, and thank god had to be so bad in the car.

00:25:55
Speaker 1: I didn't stop and pee because that would have been a nightmare. But literally, I was like, tell her, I'm on my way, on on my way.

00:26:00
Speaker 4: You know, I'm twenty minutes away, or they would have just gone, yeah, too bad, and.

00:26:03
Speaker 1: Give me a mark on my thing.

00:26:05
Speaker 4: And I got there and I literally just sitting on my front porch of my house, and I like ran in and I was like, I didn't even talk, and I was like, just give me the friggin thing. I peed in it quickly, and I was like like, get out of here. But you know, if I, let's say I didn't pick up the phone, or let's say I wasn't next to the phone, or I missed a call, which happens to everybody, or I didn't have marking RN or who knows, you know, or I was still working out in the gym.

00:26:28
Speaker 1: I would have had a mark against me.

00:26:29
Speaker 4: Now what if that was my third time and I completely forgot Like that happens quite a bit. So I mean, obviously it's very different. This situation is she was tested and both her samples were positive, So you know, yeah, I want to hold judgment.

00:26:42
Speaker 1: I like someone a lot.

00:26:44
Speaker 4: I think she's a really good kid, and I just find it really hard, as I said in the tweet, and I'll probably leave it at this until all the rest comes out.

00:26:53
Speaker 1: I just can't believe she would knowingly take something like that.

00:26:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to sort of now, I want to play devil's advocate, and then I want to let you go because you have a very new thing on the horizon that I want to give you a chance to talk about a little bit, if you.

00:27:09
Speaker 1: Are so inclined.

00:27:11
Speaker 3: But I just, after all this effort and all these employees and all these people chasing people you know, you and others down, like, do we have a coherent fair sport that has made all this worth it?

00:27:23
Speaker 4: Like?

00:27:23
Speaker 2: Is what are doing a good job? Is it?

00:27:26
Speaker 3: Is this a good use of anybody's time or effort. Maybe the answer is yes, and it keeps the sport as fair as it can be, and I should fuck off.

00:27:34
Speaker 2: But it doesn't feel like that.

00:27:37
Speaker 4: I think there's so many holes in the system, Caitlin, but I think it's necessary in some respects to at least have some kind of a boundary around safety and personal safety for the players and also not having you know, I look, players with a lot of money can afford certainly doctors and people that can help them. And you know, they also rounds that are not making the money that you know, a top players making. You know, it's very hard for them to sort of, I would say, cheat and get away with it. So look, I think it's it's an it's not a perfect system. It will probably never be a perfect system. I think drug cheats will always be ahead of the ahead of you know, wider.

00:28:10
Speaker 1: I mean, just look at Icarus.

00:28:11
Speaker 4: I mean, you just watch that show and you'll realize, like what I'm talking about. Yeah, and you know, I think, look, there's probably a lot of players that have left the game or you know, gone, oh, maybe I shouldn't take that anymore because maybe I will get caught. So you know, there are boundaries on everything now, and I think that as it's not a it's not a perfect system, but it's probably sadly the best one that we have.

00:28:32
Speaker 3: Well, the good news is for me, I don't get drug tested for anything. So I'm gonna see if I can get my hands on this stuff and see what it happened, what happens.

00:28:43
Speaker 1: Well, we love when you do that, Caitlin.

00:28:45
Speaker 2: It's also true. I mean I really mean it. So that's yeah.

00:28:49
Speaker 3: Okay, So onto happier topics and then I'll let you go because you need to run out the door, can you? What can you say about your new West endeavor? Glad to talk about it?

00:29:01
Speaker 4: Well, we're exploring a sports show on Amazon every.

00:29:06
Speaker 1: Day, five days a week, so stay tuned on that.

00:29:10
Speaker 4: I'll let you know and maybe by next week I'll have a firmer concept and idea of what it looks like and how it's going.

00:29:18
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're going to be seeing me a little bit more on the old boob tube.

00:29:23
Speaker 4: I'm still going to be doing all of my ESPN stuff at Grand Slam, so I look forward to all of you guys always see me on ESPN.

00:29:30
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's going.

00:29:31
Speaker 4: To be a new world for me, and I think i'll feel more comfortable in about a week giving you more updates on it.

00:29:37
Speaker 1: But it's definitely something that I'm excited about.

00:29:40
Speaker 3: Awesome, all right, Well, thank you as Evan for check in. Stubbsy, good luck on today's dress rehearsal and starting next week, we can watch you on Amazon. Is there any more information about where we can find you? Or should we wait till next week to really roll it out?

00:29:56
Speaker 4: Just get onto that Amazon Prime app and you will probably see my name there next week.

00:30:01
Speaker 2: Amazing.

00:30:02
Speaker 1: All right?

00:30:02
Speaker 3: Until soon, thank you as ever, and I'll see if I.

00:30:05
Speaker 2: Can get my hands on some banded substances.

00:30:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, we we like that for you, Katelin, we like that. Okay, okay, bye,