Episode 26: Interview with Crystal Wing

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Canine Connection
podcast. Today, Lori and I have a guest. Her
name is Crystal Wing. She is a fellow instructor
of mine at the Fenzie School. She also... I think
it was a pretty cool life traveling all over
the country now that she's a retired teacher
and giving seminars all over the place. And she
has some super interesting topics that she instructs
on, kind of not what people like typically do.
Like, oh, this is how we teach this behavior
or that behavior. which I'm super excited to
talk about. She also has very recently started
her own podcast, three episodes. The first three
episodes are really, really good. I love them.
It's called What's on Top. So, but I am going
to let Crystal tell all of you about herself
because she knows more about it than I do. Well,
hello, friends. I really appreciate you bringing
me on. I love your podcast and it's such an honor
to be here. I did start a podcast. I was a co
-host of the Canon Detection Collaborative for
what was like 151 episodes. Like, wow, we really.
That's a lot. We had a lot. Oh, my gosh. And
I went into that kicking and screaming because
I'm like, I am not a podcast type person. I'm
a high school art teacher and I train dogs on
the side. And, you know, this is my passion.
Life has changed a lot really fast. That's good.
Like insane. So kind of my thing lately is do
the hard thing. And it's just it's amazing what
doing the hard thing can do for you. have lived
by a schedule for, well, my whole life until
now. And so there's a lot of adjusting that's
happening in my world. I taught high school art
for 23 years and I early retired in, I guess
July was my last official day, but I had already
started doing dog training traveling. And last
year was so hard. You guys, it was so hard. Really?
So teaching high school art. And then at least
once a month, I was traveling to do a workshop
somewhere in the United States. So I would get
done teaching Friday. Oh, while teaching, not
after you stopped teaching. So this is while
teaching at least once a month. Yeah, that's
crazy. On Friday, leaving the classroom, grabbing
the dogs and then driving like six, seven, eight
hours sometimes. to go teach the next morning.
And then I would teach Saturday and Sunday at
whatever state I was in. And then Sunday we get
down like around five or six and I would drive
through the night to get home to get back to
my classroom. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Like I'm out.
And this was the same time of doing like webinars
and. So I was doing at least one webinar every
other month or no, every three months, I guess.
And then I was still attending seminars. And
I'm also the training director for Evolution
Working Dog Club. And then I also was working
on my certification for my human remains dog.
So it was like, oh, my God. Wow. I was working
really hard to build this future that I'm now
in. And this future that I'm now in, I feel like
I'm kind of like, oh, my gosh, what do I do now?
I don't have a schedule. See, that's how I'm
like the opposite. I just kind of like, I'm going
to stop this and jump into that. I'm not smart
enough to do all the like prep work first for,
so that I, to prepare for the transition. I'm
just like, oh yeah, I'll go do that now. But
I won't even say that I was smart enough to do
that. I was just doing it because I loved it
and it was just too much. So then it kind of
became this, you know, well. What am I going
to do? Because I can't keep this up. This is
too much. So that was the early retirement due
to that? Like the decision to do that was because
you needed to let something go? Well, I'm going
to fault Denise Finzi a lot for that one. So
we became really good friends. And then I needed
some confidence to know that I could do this.
And she gave me that confidence along with my
club members. And I had a friend here in club,
Elizabeth, that she had retired early. And so
she from public education. So she knew how to
do it and what was going on. And they both kind
of kept pushing and, you know, like you could
do this, you could do this. And it wasn't even
on my radar. I'm like, no, I got four more years.
I got four more years. And my body is just breaking
so fast. And I thought, you know what? You guys
are right. I need to take advantage while I can
still use this body to some sort. of degree to
do the thing I love because I do protection sports.
And part of that is I'm the idiot that wears
a suit and I teach dogs to bite me really hard.
Yeah, that's hard. That's super hard. Very hard.
Yeah. And then I also do IGP and that's my foundation
sport. And with that, when you wear a sleeve
and I've. taught helper camps and decoy things
for I'm teaching other women how to how to work
dogs. And it's one of my favorite things to do.
It is so much fun. And even like I would do a
detection seminar and somehow at some point the
suit ends up coming out and somebody's learning
how to get their first bites. Like it just happens.
Right. It's just so much fun and it's so much
confidence building and that adrenaline and just
the rush that happens with it. And I just love
sharing that with people. So just seeing that
my body was breaking down. And it just felt right.
And yeah, but you want, you made the choice to
follow your passion, which is like, I'm obsessed
with that. Like it's all I tell people to do
all the time. I'm like, stop following the traditional
route. If you have a passion, you should always
follow your passion. At least that's what I think.
The easiest thing, I have to say easiest or the,
maybe the finance, I don't even say, I don't
know, four more years. The easiest, the safest
thing, right? The thing that makes us feel. Yeah,
the most safe, right? Because a lot of times
it's an illusion. It's not necessarily the better
choice. It's the illusion of a better choice.
And because people in general are not comfortable
taking risks, they will instinctively advise
you not to take the risk, right? The people that
will advise you to take the risk are the tiny
little handful of people that have done it themselves.
And that's a huge point. You know, people can
judge me or think what they want. The number
one thing that I feel now that I didn't feel
before as a high school teacher is I feel safe
right now. I had a lot of just bad experiences
with our district and how they chose to do things.
And it didn't feel safe. Like even this year
after leaving, you know, they set a bomb off
at our assistant principal's house that made
national news. I mean, it just didn't feel safe
anymore. And you can take that with whatever
you want. You can judge me by saying that. But
my perception of where I was and I'm in a really
good school and a really good district and I
just didn't feel safe. Every day I would go there
and the first thing I would do was go through
my safety protocol. Is my chair by the door?
I have a thing of rolling pins as weapons to
be able to protect ourselves. Like every day
it was this constant. you know, just on your
toes, making sure you could keep track of all
the kids and know what you're going to do if
any moment there's an emergency. And I'm a person
that when something happens, I go forward. It's
just my reaction. And in every single scenario
that they did for us, for our active shooter
drills, I was killed within the first 30 seconds
of every drill. Like that stuff gets in your
head. It truly gets in your head. So I just I'm
glad to be out of that. And so now it's changed.
Yeah, it's changed a lot. And so I miss my kids.
And I went back to school for the first time
just two days ago and I was dropping off. I brought
some lunch for one of my friends and picked up
some blankets. Another person had for, you know,
for rescue dogs. And I saw a couple of those
kids that I miss a whole bunch. I loved that,
but I know that I made the right choice. So when
we say, break yourself out of that comfort zone
and do the hard thing, I feel so much safer now.
And it's just, oh, it feels so good. I feel like
I can breathe. You know, let your guard down
a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like my whole,
like my whole nervous system is just like. And
the nice thing about working for yourself is
like, you can kind of set that environment, right?
Like when I took this huge leap, bought my own
facility, I was able to set everything up. Like
we had diffusers, we played calming music, like
every, the whole environment, the whole culture,
everything was about, we only say nice things.
We only talk about positive things. This whole
everything there was just about and it just became
this like really nice place to be because we
had control over that. Yes. Yes. But that was
after taking a enormous risk all by myself. Right.
Yeah. So that's a really good point. So, yeah,
I mean, I think. in general, people tend to be
averse to taking risks because they always think
it's going to end up, you know, everyone always
looks at how it can turn bad. And I'm like, well,
let's look at all the ways it could turn out
better. Yeah. You know, but that's just not human
nature, right? It's not at all. But it is a great
lesson for everyone that, you know, it's all
about perspective. And I do feel that if you...
are really passionate about something, then you're
going to put in the work because it's not even
going to feel like work. And if you put in the
work, you will be successful. Like that's just
a fact. It's a tried and true recipe for, you
know, centuries, right? You work hard, it works
out. And the biggest thing I told about it. Well,
the biggest thing I told one of I saw one of
the admins as I was sneaking in and, you know,
he's like, do you have any regrets? And I'm like,
no, I don't. I don't really feel like I live
with regrets often. I feel like I learn and I
grow. And so it doesn't feel like regrets. And
it was interesting because I said, I think the
biggest thing that has been so helpful for me
is I'm still teaching. getting to teach differently
if I wasn't able to teach because that's my why.
And that's where as long as I'm teaching and
I'm helping and I feel like I'm making a difference,
that is all I need in life. Well, and then the
rest of it is just enough to feed my dogs and
pay for their insurance and medical. Right. I
think it's super interesting is like, so, you
know, on the surface, people will be like, oh,
OK, so I would make an assumption maybe like,
oh, so you go and you teach everybody about IGP
and about white sleeves and biting and sports.
And I actually think which is pretty is even
more interesting is that you were an art teacher.
Now, I am not. I just started writing a blog
on this because I've been thinking about this
a lot because I am not create like I literally
can't draw a stick figure if you say to me draw
something I get anxiety because I just can't
do it I can't if you ask me like match colors
and the walls in my house I literally spend like
$300 on sample paints because I can't figure
it out I can't hold a tune at all. I mean, I
sing, but not in front of anybody because they're
like, what is your problem? I dance like the
whitest of white people. Right. Like I just I
have. But I do feel like I'm creative when it
comes to dog training. Like that's where I feel
like I'm creative. But that's not something people
typically think of with dog training. So I feel
like you're teaching a lot from what I see anyway
about being creative and you're. And this is
Lori made this really good point when we were
talking about this, is that like when you go
and teach a seminar somewhere, most of the time
we don't know those people. So they're coming
to add us with like this snapshot of a problem
and we have to solve it. Right. And that means
you have to be a little bit creative and you
have to be very open minded. You can't kind of
say, well, you know, every time. this is what
I do for this because it just doesn't work out.
So I feel like you're taking your creativity
from teaching art, which is very creative, and
you're really applying it to dog training. And
you're like, why don't you talk about like some
of your topics, like your class topic right now
is not what people would typically think of as
a dog training topic. Right. Yeah, I was hoping
that people would even sign up for it because
they're like, this is weird. So one of my gig
or, you know, everybody has their little niche
and mine is play. I am so passionate about people
learning how to speak their dog's language through
play. And I'm not thinking of play as a transactional
piece like it is that and we can use it as that.
But it's always as a foundation relationship
based piece. And the thing that I'm teaching
right now, it's the six C's. And I found out.
I went to my friend's puppy class and she introduced
this concept of having this intention and she
said, choose a C. There were, it was a couple
of different C's, I think, but the ones that
stood out to me, I really believed in compassion
and connection as the kind of the why behind
it, the foundation. And then I built that into
clarity. And then the clarity is what builds
confidence. And then the confidence is building
into you can now be curious. And once you're
curious, you can be creative. And so being a
six week class and having the six C's, that's
what I've been kind of teaching from. So it's
about having intention and having this kind of
purpose behind what you're teaching. So it's
not necessarily about teaching this behavior,
but how can we do it through these different
lenses? And it is amazing. Even this is kind
of off topic. Side quest. I had to go to a foot
doctor this week and it sucks. He told me I have
to be off my foot for a month. That's not OK.
And he said in a month I go back and it should
be 30 to 40 percent better. And I'm like, wait,
wait, wait, 30 percent. So how much longer? He's
like, well, I'll just see you back in a month
because he realized like how bad this is for
me. My ADHD brain of I talk on the phone and
I probably walk a mile, you know, like I there's
no there's no sitting still. So this is like
a. Yeah, so I'm a little bit on edge. But what
I loved about the interaction I had with him,
I've never been that confident talking to a doctor
before. And I really credit doing all of this
research and just seeing all the things that
I'm teaching for my dog, how it's applying to
myself. And I'm hearing that from my students
over and over again. And the whole compassion
piece about, you know, I went in there and I
told him straight out. I'm like, I'm really stressed
right now. You know, it's just I love thinking
about training and even just life through these
six C's. And it's making such a big difference.
And I'm not saying sexy because that was also
a joke. Because, you know, that song, I'm sexy
and I know it. Yeah. Yeah. So the first time
that I told a friend, I was like, OK, I'm really
excited about this sexy thing. And they're like,
what? I'm sexy and I know it. I'm like, no, no,
no. 6C. That's so funny. So I'm doing an approaching
through these different lenses. And even if I'm
not telling somebody that, that's what's happening
in my brain now. So my creativity is all for
my curiosity. Everything in my training is based
through curiosity. I am always asking questions
and I don't approach anything knowing the answer.
I approach everything asking the question and
looking for information. And that's how I've
taught high school for all those years. I can't
go into it knowing any of those kids because
they change minute to minute. These are teenagers.
I mean, if you can survive a classroom of teenagers,
you can survive anything because those little
brains are just constantly changing from one
moment to the next. You know, so I'm I'm just
genuinely curious about the situation, the environment.
And so that's how I approach everything. And
that's where the seminars are so fun, because
I go into it asking lots of questions. I try
to teach people how to ask. better in different
questions. And I think that's the real trick
behind creativity. And when people say that they're
not creative or they're not confident or they're
not curious, those are all skills we build. You're
not just built, you know, you're not just born
with those. Some people are innately more curious.
Like I was innately more, I guess, artistically
gifted, but because I liked it, I pursued it.
And therefore I got better at it because it's
something I wanted to do, just like dog training.
I can't stop thinking about it. Like I'm obsessed
with it. Yeah, same. That's how we are. And that's
what makes me so curious to keep asking more
questions. And it just fuels you to just keep
going more and getting more. That's where the
creativity comes from. And probably the most
helpful thing I ever learned when I was teaching
high school, and I transfer all of this, is for
critique. The kids have to look at artwork. And
basically, as an art teacher, what am I teaching
kids? I'm teaching them to notice. I'm teaching
them to observe and be aware. And so I do a like,
wish, wonder for all of our critiques because
kids want to start off. And this is I'll say
kids, but you can say anybody. You start off
by saying, oh, I like that. I don't like that.
I mean, that's kind of we just start at judgment,
you know, and that's about all we know to say.
And so instead, we start to break it down. And
I say, I want you to say, and for the dog world,
I say, I want you to say something that you like
about your training, about what you did and what
you like that your dog did. Because we are so
pre -programmed to see all the crap, all the
stuff that's so terrible. The first thing I would
always do, well, that was a terrible session
because this, this, and this. So now I'm changing
that mindset. First thing I have to say after
every session, what do I like not only about
my dog and what they did, but what do I like
about what I did? The wish. That's the part that
comes a little easier. I wish that that deer
hadn't come across the field. Yeah. I wish that
the, you know, whatever, that's my wish, but
then typically creates my wonder. And wonder
is the creativity. Because I'm open and I'm taking
information and I'm being curious, my wonder
creates the, I wonder if this, and that creates
my next training plan too. So I'm not a person
that can plan very well and I don't tend to be
very consistent about finishing things. And that's
OK sometimes because it's just a matter of what
inspires you and what keeps you going. And what
are you excited to do? Follow that. And if you
keep doing that, you're just going to keep getting
better. But that's where the creativity piece
kicks in. It is not something that you're just
born with. It is a skill you have to build. And
the biggest way to build creativity, reading
a dog. And that's what people really struggle
with. They're so like I'm obsessed with the why.
Right. Reading the dog and the why. Like that's
always been my obsession. But like as an instructor,
like what are people obsessed with? How do I
fix this? Right. How do I fix this? Not. Well,
why did your dog do that? I don't know. How do
I fix it? Right. Like they're there. They want
the answer. to solve the problem instead of looking
at it like hmm why did this happen how can i
solve this problem i also think sometimes they're
just overwhelmed because dog training is so complex
like there's so many different things going on
like at the same time but like what like if so
if the person has a problem of there's so many
different things going on like because i'll say
to a student i'll give you an actual an actual
example maybe that'll make it easier right so
Students miss dogs making a mistake all the time.
And so they miss it. And then they inadvertently
are basically telling the dog it's correct. Right.
And so then I'm always like, so then I'm trying
to say, well, why did you miss that? Like, dude,
are you looking at the dog? Yes. You didn't see
the dog looked away. No. How did you not see
the dog look away? It just happened right. I'm
standing right here next to you. I saw it. How
did you not see it? And so there are two things
that the feet, because I'm trying to say to the
person in this moment right now, where is your
brain? Like, I want to understand how is it that
you missed this and didn't. read the dog or read
what's happening in the moment, right? Because
I am very good at being in the moment, moment
by moment. So the two most common things are
one is there's just so much going on. They're
like, well, I was thinking about, you know, I
have to turn and I have to do this and the dog
has to do that. And so there's so much in there
going on that they're missing what's right in
front of them. So that's like one problem. And
then the other problem I think is a confirmation
bias. Yes. that they want it to be right. And
actually I can't even claim this as my, like,
cause I'm standing there with somebody I trained
with the other day and my other training partner
missed it. And I looked at her and I go, why,
why does this happen? Why? Why do people do this?
And she looked at me and she says, in this case,
I think it's confirmation bias. I'm like, you're
right. He wants the dog to be right so bad that
he's like subconsciously not seeing it. The blinders.
Yeah. And I'm like, so I'm like, okay. Have a
confirmation bias towards look for the mistakes.
But I don't even know if that's the answer. But
anyway, those are my two observations. So like
how would like do you have any suggestions or
like how would you apply this whole thing of
no, no, no. Pay attention in the moment. Read
your dog or whatever. You know what I'm saying.
I'm just I have so many thoughts. So. So this
week in class is creativity week and it's what
we've built for this entire time. And I'm just
desperate to have another week because I feel
like all we're doing is getting all of the pre
-creativity things, which is the perception and
the reading the dog part. And that's what today
was about. And we're not even getting a chance
to really like dive into all the really fun,
creative games, you know, and how to approach
things. But what I really realize is that the
entire class has been about curiosity because
that's what all of my training is about. And
the curiosity is what's leaving you open to be
able to have those moments to be creative. And
today I had a huge aha moment. So the timing
is perfect for this. I was like, I'm going to
record a podcast on this. I'm like, wait, I'm
going to be talking to Patreon Lori. We can do
it on their podcast. So yay. There you go. I've
been so behind on episodes. I'm like, I so have
all these ideas about being a beginner and what
that means. And I'm so stoked about that. I have
all these thoughts and about intention. I'm like,
ah, but this darn class keeps getting in my way.
Yeah, not enough hours in the day. Oh, there
aren't. But there's a thing called the critical
analysis in art for critiquing artwork. So I'm
going back to that. And that's where Like Wish
Wonder came from. And this kind of protocol is
about describe, analyze, interpret and judge.
And those are the four steps to your critical
analysis. Do you think that's what people do
when they're looking at their training? Do they
do it in that order? Not at all. They judge first.
It has to be in those steps. This was so freaking
huge for me this morning. I was like, I immediately
called Nancy. I was like, Nancy! She's like,
I haven't had coffee yet. But the important part
about it is that you start with your description,
right? So when you're talking about being in
the moment, a lot of people don't know how to
be in the moment. Okay, so Patri, you do a lot
of mindset stuff. How do you get in the moment?
Just practice. Like, so I've done a ton of meditation,
which meditation makes you realize that your
brain is just doing things constantly, right?
So I have an 80, like a brain that's going 8
,000. It's like a school of fish. Yeah. Right.
Like like multiple schools of fish. Like it's
insanity in there. Like it's just mayhem. So
if I followed all those threads, which is what
I used to do, you're just like all over the place.
Right. Yeah. So it starts with awareness. Like
I am aware now of what my brain is doing. Right.
And so then I can let go. Like I cannot follow
the thread and I can just take a deep breath
and go, OK, I'm letting just letting everything
go. Breathe. Focus in the moment. And then I
also think part of why I can focus so well when
I train dogs in part is because I'm like Forrest
Gump. So if someone says to me, take three steps
forward and three steps right, I will do exactly
that to the letter every time. So I was taught
at some point way back in the day that when I
train my dog, if I want 100 % engagement from
my dog, I have to give a... 100 % engagement
to the dog first, right? Yes. So someone says
you must be focused on your dog 100 % of the
time. So Forrest Gump, that's what I do, right?
So I think I've developed, I've been doing it
for decades now. Like it's a habit. Like I feel
like it's a contract. Like I owe it to my dog.
Like if I don't do that, I'm bad, right? Like
how can I ask my dog to pay attention to me?
How can I ask my dog to give me? you know, their
attention if I'm thinking about my grocery list.
And I've also had dogs that have kept me incredibly
honest. Tyler, like this dog, literally, I'd
be healing him, right? Once he was fully trained,
we were super in sync. So I'd be healing him
and all of a sudden his eyes would start flickering,
which would catch my attention. And I'd go, oh,
shit, I'm thinking about my grocery list. And
I'd go, sorry, dude, focus on him. The eye flicking
went away like that's how we were. Right. And
my dogs, all my dogs, they will hold me accountable.
Like if I start to flake out, they catch me on
it every time. So I think that. I think it's
a combination of a, like, that's what I was told
to do. And therefore I follow what I've been
told. And I also do feel like we ask so much
of them that it's the least we could do. Right.
And so that's, that's, that I think is a big
motivator for me to be present in the moment.
But in terms of the actual skill of doing it
is something I had to develop. by practice by
working on it by like reading book you know i've
read a thousand books and i've been you know
i worked really hard on becoming aware of what
my brain is doing and where it's going and like
then coming back and stopping that right and
like So I think it's both things. It's multiple
things. So Lori, how do you stay in the now?
It's a work in progress all the time. It is.
I'm newer to the sport. You know, I've only been
doing it for about seven, eight years now. Like
I didn't even realize I'm the same way. It must
be like just the common denominator of dog trainers.
We have that ADHD brains. Our brains are going
9 ,000 miles an hour. But I really did not come
to light. for me until I really started having
to, that was affecting my training and definitely
my trialing because I wasn't staying in the moment.
And then, you know, A, B, and C would start to
happen and things would unravel. And that was
like the biggest piece that was missing and is
the biggest thing that I'm working on now, staying
in the moment, staying on task, staying on the
plan. It's, you know, I... I am now so now mindful
of it and constantly consciously thinking about
that all the time. I'm hoping eventually I don't
have to think about it so much. But right now
I do. Like I have to really be concentrating
on concentrating kind of thing, if that makes
sense. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where
I say make your training plan to teach yourself
how to be in the moment. That's the first step
because we're here. All three of us are saying
it. We need to be in the moment. And there's
lots and lots of skills and ways to do that.
So you have to find those things that work for
you. The thing that works for me, I do the five
senses. That's a little kind of grounding moment
that I have. A big part of me, if I don't have
time to do that, is I will simply go, OK, where's
your jaw? If my jaw is clenched, I loosen my
jaw. I ask myself, where's my tongue? It's always
pressed against the top of my mouth. And so I
relax that down and then I go shoulders. Where
are you? Check. And I go, you need to get a little
further from your ears. I drop my shoulders just
that little bit. And then I take one big inhale
and I let that out. And honestly, that is so
much help just to make me realize to be in the
moment just for that little moment, because that's
the first step is we have to get in the moment.
We have to pay attention to how we're feeling
because that's going to impact our dog. Do I
need to talk about the five? I can tell the five
senses thing real quick. Is that okay? Yeah.
In case people have needed here. Yeah, I think
you should. Yeah. Okay. And I kind of do a little
twist on it in my class that I kind of, I really
liked it. It was fun. It's kind of the seminars
I do too. So the five senses, we know what they
are. See, hear, touch, smell, taste. Yeah. Five.
And so what you start off with is you look around
your space. What are five things that you see?
And you're not actively like trying to look for
every little tiny detail. There's no judgment
in this. It's not, oh, there's a dirty floor.
Right. So think about it as an infant would,
you know, that's just learning how to see and
learning how to talk. You know, they're not going
to have judgment. So it's five things that you
see and you look around. Then you ask yourself,
what are four things that I hear? What are three
things that are touching, that I'm touching and
not actively reaching out, but like I can feel
the softness of my socks. I can feel this hoodie.
It has a really nice, soft texture inside, you
know, so it's things that are just touching you,
the temperature, feeling how that's affecting
your skin. Then two things that you can smell.
And yes, my dog did fart. So I smell that. And
then the last one is taste. Just one thing that
you're tasting. And I will go through this several
times until I can feel myself being in that moment
because I'm very aware of my surroundings at
that time. And then the last thing that I really
focus on is that breathing. And I'm not changing
my breathing. I am being breathed. I'm just focusing
on how that breath is moving. That is enough
for me. to get to that place where now I can
focus on my dog. Because now I'm not thinking
about all that stuff in the future and all that
stuff in the past that I was right before I did
that little exercise. So that's been a really
powerful exercise for me just to help myself
get in the moment. And I'm always doing the hashtag
pay attention. I have it on the back of all my
hats. You know, it's on the back of all my shirts.
And so for some people, it might be like, pay
attention. That's kind of rude, you know, because
whenever I have my seminars, I'm like, OK, guys,
pay attention. And what I mean by that. is I
want you to pay attention to how you feel. I
want you to pay attention to your surroundings.
I want you to pay attention to what your dog
is experiencing. But one of the big things about
pay attention is I want you to pay your dog for
when they give you attention. Because that's
one of the biggest things that people don't really
see as a behavior. And attention is the most
important behavior that my dogs give me. And
so every chance I get, I want to pay them for
the attention that they give. And when we talk
about all of this focus work, Like we talked
about, we have brains skittering around. If I
can't focus on something for more than two minutes,
then my session is no longer than two minutes.
Right. So I have to build that muscle before
I can start expecting more from my dog. Right.
So those are all kind of the pieces that I start
to put into it. And I know you had kind of said
about, I wrote it down, what did I say? Kind
of the mindset about looking for mistakes. And
instead, I kind of feel like I need to teach
people how to pay attention and how to look for
being present because then they can start to
see what they're actually looking for. And that's
where video comes in. Oh, my gosh. Video is like
the most important thing because you're not going
to see a lot of stuff in the moment until you
train yourself to watch the video back and then
you see it. And you can watch the video back
in like seven or eight different lenses. Like
I love how Steve White does that. He watches
it back with eight different lenses, you know,
of like one time you're watching it, like how
the dog's tail moves. Another time you're watching
it to see, you know, how their top line is, you
know, whatever the different indicators are.
And so I think about that and I try to have myself
in the video just as much because I'm just as
important. Because what did I do that caused
that? And I look for the moment before and the
moment after. And that video is so important
to kind of speak to like, why didn't you see
that? And so, again, it goes to. Can you be in
the moment? Because if you're not, you're not
going to see it. So at the very least, let's
watch it in the video so that maybe next time
you can catch it when that happens. And I love
I love the moment before and after. Like, I'm
always telling them, like, look at what happened
before. Right. Right. Because that's what led
like instead of just saying, see, he did it wrong
there. Well, what happened before or happened
before is what, you know. caused that to happen
and then and yeah we talk about video on here
constantly right oh yeah yeah yeah yeah and I
love we were chatting with Holly Bouchard and
she had this great analogy because being an art
teacher she talked about being a photographer
and you can't look at the entire dog and the
entire situation and all of your experience and
take it in all at once yeah and so she said it's
kind of like having a camera use your focus of
your camera and just focus on one thing And then
once you get really good at focusing at that
one thing, now expand it out. And now you can
focus on two things. And so this is a skill that
people have to learn. They can't just come into
this and be like, oh, yep, I can see it all.
They just can't. And that's the power. That's
so important, what you just said, that focus
on the one thing, master that. Because I think
that's what I realized at one point, like, oh,
my God, God help my poor training partner. It's
a miracle he's with me where because he's new.
Right. So I'd be like, dude, like five years
later, you know, I'm still preaching the fundamentals.
And then I realized like. you know what like
because I'm very linear right like I'm very linear
and so that's how I learn and whatever so I master
a step and then I do the next step right so I
think that a lot of people so I'll give an example
like footwork right I would go I would like draw
lines on my sidewalk in front of my house, go
out there without the dog and just do my footwork
like in the street, like a crazy lady, right?
I did it day after day, week after week, month
after month until I no longer had to think about
it. Now there was one less thing I had to think
about. I no longer had to think about my footwork.
So I no longer had to consciously pay attention
to that in the moment, right? Because I mastered
it. Then it's like, okay. how do you handle errors
right like i would say to them every time your
dog makes a mistake do this this and this and
then three years later they still forget to do
it well just master it so that you no longer
have to think about it just like when you drive
a car and then master the next thing rather than
trying to learn or master, for lack of a better
word, like six, seven, eight, nine, 10 things
simultaneously for three years and never being
able to do that because there's just too many
things. Right. It's too hard. Does that. And
so when you're I think that's similar to what
you're saying, where you're like, focus on the
one thing, get good at focusing on that one thing.
And then once you're good at that, then focus
on the next thing rather than trying to look
at everything. all at once yes and i'll take
that in a couple different directions that's
what i do no that's good so i try really hard
to practice as much as i can without a dog so
i'll practice my footwork without the dog i practice
my my clicker mechanics without the dog. You
know, like I'll have a bowl of popcorn and I'll
set a criteria because I need practice of what
criteria to set. If I have ice cream versus popcorn,
there's different frequency of how fast I want
to eat that, right? And so it makes me practice
my criteria setting too. And so I'm constantly
thinking about what can I do and practice without
my dog so that it can become easier for me, like
doing helper work. If I'm having to constantly
think about how I'm going to hold the angle of
the sleeve and, you know, that I'm going to have
to move my... footwork in a certain way, I have
to read the dog in that situation or bad stuff
could happen, you know, and you don't learn it
all at once. But it's over practice. It's over
time. And that's where the compassion comes in,
because you have to really be kind to yourself
to like, look, I'm not going to learn it all
at once. The most kind thing I can do to myself
and my learner is I need to focus on this one
important piece. But identifying that piece can
be really hard for people. And that's where like
having mentors and coaches really come in. So
like what you're saying, you need this piece,
get this piece down and we can build on that.
Right. And so that that's the that's the important
kind of foundation. When I say focus on one thing
at a time, one thing that I do have a hard time
with in training, though, is sticking to a progression
plan. I try and then I can't. I just get so bored
with it. And it's not bored even. I just my brain
is off to something else. And so I do a lot of
spiral training, kind of like what Denise Fenzi
talks about. I never had a name for it, but I
like that she calls it that. I'm always approaching
things from lots of different angles. So like
if I'm going to teach healing, I'm going to teach
it using backup. I'm going to be doing backwards
healing. I'm going to be doing pivots. I'm going
to be, you know, I'm having it from so many different
ways and that it's all going to kind of just
come together. That's how I love approaching
training. But that's also me coming from things
in a really curious place. And I feel like I
never have a method or a strategy that is set
for anything. And that's where I was trying to
when I bugged you that day about that post. It
was you did such a great post about that, about
how even when you had something perfect, you
were like, nope, I'm not happy with this. I think
I can teach this in a different way. And I loved
that thread. You share so much great writing.
I don't know what happened to that, but I do
do that. Like, that's what I started, right?
Because I was talking to somebody about it this
weekend because I'm like, like I was telling
them the story about Tyler, right? So Tyler was
my dog. He was like extremely talented. I was
lucky to have him. So the dog, you know, won
two nationals, master hunter, qualified all age,
second in the world cup, won the world cup. So
like, what else would I have to teach the dog?
Right. So he's formally retired. And I'm like,
you know, whenever I sent my article, he's not
happy there. Yeah. And I'm like, it bothered
me. And it had nothing to do with score because
it's not scoreable. Had nothing to do with cues
because he never flunked it. That dog never flunked.
Right. It had nothing to do with any tangible
goal because he had achieved everything under
the sun. than some, like it had nothing to do
with that. It had to do with like, I was like,
God, like, why can't I figure this out? Like,
why can't I make that better? And The last show
I ever, and then right before, like I formally
retired him. And then I had just like a couple
local trials I did for fun. And I was like, let
me try this thing. And that the last show I ever
did with him, that thing worked. And that is
the thing. So you were like, well, big deal.
Well, that thing is the thing I use to this day
with all my dogs. And it makes all my dogs. comfortable
and confident in a spot that's really uncomfortable
for them. Right. And I, and I, I did it with
zeal, like, and I'm doing it with zest. Like
people like, well, he won the national championship.
What else? I'm redoing everything. Then I go
in the ring and I try things and I'm like, whoopsie
flunk. That didn't work. You know? Cause like.
Cause I'm always wondering like, how can I make
it better? And I don't mean better in terms of
a score or outcome. I mean, in terms of make
the dog more comfortable, make the dog more confident,
communicate more effectively. Cause I am sure
that every one of my dogs will tell you that
I am as clear as fricking mud. They're probably
like, Jesus Christ, woman, like you are so hard
to understand. Like and I that's that's what
I think about all the time. And that's what I'm
working on. Like, that's what I was working on
today. Like making his glove better. Like he
has no problem with the glove. But but I still
think it could be better. Like, again, not in
terms of a score, but in terms of like him being
happier with it, him being more confident. Like
that kind of thing. And I'm always like, huh,
can I teach this differently? I don't think I've
ever taught any. I don't often teach something
the same way with the next dog. Like half the
time, I don't even remember how I taught it.
Yeah. And then I'm like, huh, let me try that.
Well, that didn't work. Let me try that. That
didn't work either. I think part of it is fear,
right? Like people are afraid. As soon as something,
the dog makes a mistake, they freak out, number
one, right? Like, oh my God, it's broken. I'm
like, oh, for God's sakes, people, it's a mistake.
Then they're afraid. They're afraid. Like, well,
what if it goes wrong? Right. Well, then I'll
teach it a different way. Like, I don't panic
about that. And then they're like, well, but
you know what you're doing. No, I don't. And
I didn't. Like, I remember the very first time
I decided that I was going to teach something
differently. And it was a big. problem. And so
I had a choice. Either I do this thing differently
and I'm on my own, like 100 % on my own. Cause
I was told, if you do this, you are on your own.
We are not helping you. Right. Or I take the
safe route and I don't know, maybe there's something
weird in me that's different than other people.
But I was like, you know what? I really. know
how to teach it that way. So I can always go
back to that way. But I want to try this other
way. Like, I'm just curious to see, like, can
I teach it a different way? So that my dog is
not stanchion dependent. Right. And if I hadn't
been able to do that, like I know how to teach
a stanchion behavior. So I was like, well, if
that doesn't work, I can go back and do that.
But convincing people sometimes to, you know,
like sometimes they'll do things. I tell them
on blind faith because I'm like, no, no, no.
Like, trust me, it will work. But it's I'd rather
they're doing it because they're like, cool,
let's try it and see if it will work. Like that's
people. struggle with that. That's the lack of
curiosity. And it's the perfectionist cycle.
And it's our culture. I think about our schools.
You know, we think about hand raising is about
asking questions, right? Is it really, though?
Because most of the time that I would go into
classrooms, I was part of this RTI program. You'd
go in, you'd watch what the teachers were doing.
Most of the time, hands going up were to answer
questions. It wasn't to ask questions. So we've
really changed kind of our culture as to answer
the question, know the information, do it right.
It's not about asking questions and figuring
things out and being able to problem solve. So
our culture has been shifted to know the answer,
get the information. And that's hard to combat.
And when you talk about teaching differently,
I'm doing bite sports differently. You know,
I do it in a force -free type way. I mean, there's
not that many of us doing it. And so there's
not a roadmap out there. And you have to be very
curious. You have to be willing to make lots
of mistakes. But the thing that I like to look
at, too, is I don't feel like I make a lot of
mistakes. I feel like what I'm doing is I'm just
teaching. Because if I find a hole or there's
something there, instead of going, oh, man, I
screwed up and I need to fix that, I don't think
about fixing. I think I get a chance to teach
that now. And that has been such a helpful mindset
shift for me because I was so stuck in fixing,
fixing, fixing. And that feels awful. But as
soon as I can go, you know what? I'm just going
to teach this now. I get an opportunity. It's
the same damn thing. I'm still teaching. I'm
still fixing the thing. But just my mind is different.
And that's important. And you were talking about,
I was trying to write all that down. The biggest
thing that I want people to hear is. Everything
is information. It's not a judgment. For a long
time with Yukon, oh my gosh, I absolutely let
my training with him be my value because he's
a difficult dog. You have to teach him the same
thing over and over every day and work on it
just very consistently for him to even start
to grasp it. He's a sweet, sweet boy, but there's
just something not quite right. And I would totally
wrap up my identity in how I was training him
or how he was catching on to training. And I
was seriously to the point of like, I shouldn't
be a dog trainer. Like I was really there. And
so it's interesting how we do that, how we tie
our value to what they're doing instead of just
being able to say, this is just information.
It's not a big deal. Now that I have this information,
what can I do with it? That's where my like,
wish, wonder comes from. And once I could do
that, I could be more curious. That's where everything
shifted for me. And the thing that you talked
about that I loved with the pay attention, you're
paying attention to the emotional awareness,
the emotional feeling. And that's your constant
drive to improve. That's the emotional part of
it, too. And I think that's a part that we've
been so stuck in learning theory. And we start
off with click, pause, feed. Click, pause, reward,
you know, and it's this linear piece that we
are so stuck in for a while. Once you can get
past that and you get your mechanics and you
get that flow, now you can start looking at the
emotional side of it. And that's where all of
this joy comes from for me, where I'm like, dude,
now the whole world has just opened up. Yeah,
the judgment thing is huge, right? Because I
mean, and I know. Like I constantly have students
like, oh, I'm a terrible trainer. And I'm like,
oh my God, here we go again. I'm like, no, you're
not blah, blah. And then when I have a student
that like very recently, one of my students was
like, you know, I just realized that my dog's
a terrier and he's low to the ground. And yeah,
I work really hard on him not sniffing the ground,
this and that. But you know what? Sometimes he's
just going to do it and that's okay. I'm going
to do my best to get him not to do. And I was
like, and then. When I hear that, to me, that
sounds so revolutionary. Yeah. It makes me go,
oh, my God, like it really highlights how unusual
that is. And she didn't used to be like that.
Like it made when I I've had several students
recently kind of have these epiphanies. And I'm
like, oh, my God, this is the most exciting thing
I've ever like ever. Right. Like that they're
learning. to just stop and just train the dog
and just go with it. And like, it's not the end
of the world. It's not world peace. You're doing
a good job. Yes. Sometimes it doesn't go well.
And sometimes it's like, it's all just information
at that point. I'm like, Oh, thank you, God.
You know, like, it's like a miracle. I'm like,
it makes me so ecstatic, but I'm like, everybody
should be like this. But it just really highlights
that the typical mindset, right? Like, and I
do agree. Like, I think it's a societal thing,
you know, where everything is like judgment based
and everything is value based. Like, and am I
good enough and better than, and this, oh my
God, like where, what happened to just like.
Like my favorite thing in the world. is like
when like I train with certain people, like if
I train with Lori or I train with the two women
I train with on Thursdays, we're just problem
solving. Like we're just helping each other and
we're like, try this, try that. What do you think?
What do you think? Well, what do you think? And
then we talk about it and then we like try to
figure it out. And we're like, yeah, maybe not.
Well, that didn't work. Let's try that. Like
that is so. fun for me like midtown fun and it's
exciting and it's rewarding and it's like yeah
it's fun and we laugh like our dogs make mistakes
and we're like hysterical laughing like that's
what training should be it shouldn't be like
oh my god my dog made a mistake or like like
i went to a match not long ago and um my dog
made a mistake and everyone's like including
the quote -unquote like pretend judge and they're
all like oh and i'm like good job buddy you're
fine don't listen to that You know, it's okay.
You're all right. And they always look at me
like I'm a fricking lunatic. Right. And I, and
I like leave there. I'm like, Oh my God, everybody
in my head. I'm like lighting up like the poor
dog. It's a dog. Like he, like, what is even
happening? I don't even know where I just went
with this tangent. You know, I, you know, I think
a lot of. Just listening to you guys talk about
it, all I think about is the heaviness that comes
with all that feeling of that judgmental piece,
right? When you see people, this is kind of where
I am now in my stage of training dogs and trying
to help people. I wanted to feel weightless.
Like I don't want that heaviness of what if it's
going to go sideways? Who cares? Like there's
that keep it weightless. Like there shouldn't.
And I just did a seminar this weekend and every
person who had the opportunity to come in one
at a time and they're willingly raising their
hands to come in. I'll do it. I'll go get my
dog. And they come in and I can feel it on them.
Yeah. that that heaviness and they look at me
and they go they all said the same thing i'm
a little nervous and that's just i think i think
like you guys said it's a societal thing Where
they're in a crowd or even if it's just you and
your dog, like nobody wants it to go in any other
direction but perfection. You know, that's the
battle that we tend to have with dog training.
But you have like to me, the flip side is, is,
hey, it goes sideways. Like the challenge is
there for me, which is now why I love to train
dogs is how do we how do we give the information
different? How do we go about this in a totally
other? You know, that's why I love training with
like really good people who are like, have the
same mindset, like Patra and some of my other
training partners. Like, they're like, huh, that
was weird. I wonder why, you know, we just dissect,
like, like rip it up. Let's tear it apart. And
as soon as I said that to some of the, my participants
this weekend, you could just see them lighten
up. I'm like, don't let it. Who cares if it goes
sideways? We're going to figure it out. So don't
worry about it. And they immediately just were
like, OK, they needed permission for it to be
possibly not go the way they thought it was going
to go. Well, even tying onto that. It's not going
to go that way. Like it is going to go sideways.
Like I can promise you your entire life of training
your dog is going to be things going sideways.
True. Like so again, people have a very unrealistic.
expectation right because they say like disappointment
comes from expectation if you're expecting it
to go well and it doesn't you're disappointed
but if you just know that it's just gonna go
sideways like stuff your dog's gonna make mistakes
things gonna go messy things are gonna get ugly
and then that's just it's It's guaranteed to
happen. So why are you surprised? Why are you
upset? Why are you disappointed? It's just part
of it. Well, I think we put so much shame in
so much. So talking about that heaviness, when
we get nervous, I feel like so many people are
ashamed of being nervous. Well, I shouldn't be
nervous right now. You know, I should be handling
this. No, you should be nervous because you care
about it. If you weren't nervous, there'd be
something wrong. And so I think we need to give
ourselves permission that we should be nervous.
But how do we deal with those nerves? Do we let
it become destructive? Or, you know, can I? I
sing the Pointer Sisters, I'm So Excited, and
it instantly changes that. So instead of going
into a fear -based, it goes into, okay, I'm excited
about this, and it's okay that I'm nervous about
this. And that other shame piece of it, I feel
like, I talked about this last week in Curiosity,
and I always wonder is, what if we didn't add
shame to uncertainty? I feel like every time
something becomes unclear or we don't have an
answer, we feel shame about it or we feel bad
about it. And what if instead we just got curious
about it? It's just information. If I don't know
the answer to something, it doesn't make me lesser
of a person. Instead, let me go directly to,
oh, my gosh, there's a new opportunity. This
is more information to give me something new
to think about, a new problem to be able to kind
of obsess with with a friend, you know, or it's
not a judgment. It's not a shame. based thing.
So I just feel like anytime that I feel like
shame creeping in because I don't know something,
I have to change that immediately to curiosity.
And curiosity is the answer to almost everything
in my life. If I can just get curious about it,
I can shut judgment off. I can then be creative
about it. I can move forward with it. And I'm
not stuck in that shame judgment mode. That was
my thing this morning. This is my big revelation.
Sorry, I remember earlier I was writing about
it. So my big revelation. OK, when in I was talking
about the art critique world, thinking about
judgment, we tend to go to judgment first. Right.
So if we're talking about reading a dog, I know
this was like an hour ago now. But in the in
the critical analysis of art, we have four phases.
That first one is description. So it's very objective.
It's observation based. So when you were talking
earlier about, you know, why didn't you see that?
We have to train that muscle. So it's not necessarily
looking for mistakes, but it's looking for criteria.
That's how I like to reframe it. So if I can't
do it in lifetime, I can do it in my video, but
I'm going to describe. And just like with the
five senses, I'm going to describe it without
judgment. It's just facts. No one could dispute
that fact. I'm not going to say the dog looked
hungry. You know, it's like I actually need to
say the dog was salivating, you know. So I literally
want you to describe. That's the first step.
So things like the posture of the body, how they're
carrying their tail, how they're moving, what
direction are their ears facing or, you know,
if they have floppy ears, you know, like which
way are they orienting their eyes? You know,
are they all blown out? Are they soft? Think
about their mouth. Is it open? Is it closed?
You get the idea, right? So these are all descriptions
of the direction, the speed. Just describe what
you see. This answers that what do I actually
see question, which then now you can get into
analysis. So some people can't really get into
analysis yet. Like they need to learn how to
describe more. And so I do a ton of this without
being in training. Like I just do this as I watch
my dogs in their day. In the analysis phase,
you're looking for how those pieces are working
together. So how is the movement and the energy?
How's the rhythm? You know, how is the intensity
of what they're doing? Is there a nice flow or
is there hesitation? Is there engagement or disengagement?
So it's how all of those elements are interacting
together. That's the analysis. Now you can start
interpreting. So this is when you can make this
thoughtful guess. So what emotion or state might
this represent? So in this context, you know,
with this dog, with this learning history, what
exactly am I seeing? Like, how are they feeling?
That's the feelings. of it. That's the educated
guess part. But I'm still staying open. And that's
where the curiosity and the creativity come in.
The last step is the judgment or the evaluation.
And that's where we decide what we're thinking
about it. So was it effective? Was it appropriate?
Would I do it again? Would I change something?
And that's the order it has to be in. That's
the most important piece of that is we're taking
this all out of order. And that's why we can't
read our dogs. We're not practicing the observation
over and over and over again. So I want to look
at each of those pieces in my videos. I want
to look at that in real time. I want to practice
those skills of observation because then I can
start to analyze. And once I can analyze, that's
the only time I can start to interpret because
I have so many people interpreting stuff so crazy
to me, I feel like I'm getting gaslit sometimes.
They're like, my dog is so upset. They're just
on the verge of just having a meltdown. And I'm
looking at the dog going, your dog is happy.
Your dog is ready to do this thing. And it makes
me crazy. But it's because they've jumped straight
to this this interpretation in this judgment
mode without having good observation and analysis
skills. Oh, my God. Right. Good point. And that's
like a totally second because I just I wrote
it down. But I really want everybody to like,
no, that's so important. You skipped the observation
part and you went right to the interpretation
of judgment. And you're not, you're dead wrong.
Yeah. Like you're like, I've had people tell
me and I'm like, dude, I don't think so. And
they're like, oh, you know what? My, my last
dog was like that. Yes. I'm like, well, hello.
Cause I don't think, cause I'm exactly what you
said. I'm looking at the dog and I'm like, really?
Yeah. Your dog looks. Yeah. I seriously would
love to do a class just on this process. Like
I was so excited about this this morning of like,
how is it that I'm able to read a dog? I've always
had people tell me like, you're just a natural
at it. But I'm like, I think it's because I've
trained myself as an art teacher to notice. Yeah,
that's a good point because, you know, I was
thinking about this too. I think about that a
lot too, especially because I'm like, we harp
on this with our students all the time. You got
to pay attention. You got to be reading the dog.
You got to be in that moment, reading the dog
all the time. Somebody said to me that. Because
I was a vet tech for years and years before I
had my kids and got married. And then it dawned
on me because they're like, you read dogs so
fast. Like, how did you even know that? Yeah.
And I thought about it and I thought about it
and I thought about it and I said, well, you
know what? When I was a technician and I would
walk into an exam room, I had to quickly really
hone in on reading that dog to make sure. I stayed
safe and it forced me to, to be, to, to observe
so accurately in that moment and, and learn to
read just because I needed to keep myself safe.
I think that was a big thing. Safety is a great
motivator. Safety is a big motivator. I mean,
like I literally, and the thing was, is like,
I had X amount of seconds. I had to make that
decision on how I was going to handle that dog.
I love that you said that. I never thought about
it that way, but that's me in bite work too.
When I've got a dog in front of me and I'm even
playing tug or I'm, you know, safety is a motivator.
If I've got my body or their body in the wrong
place, I could kill a dog doing what I do. Because
if they're coming down a football field's distance
at full speed and they're hitting my arm and
I stand there like a brick wall, one of us is
going to break and it happens. And so that safety
is a huge motivator. And I never really thought
of it that way with the sport that I do, but
it's very true. And I think maybe that is why
I learned stuff so fast. Therapy, same. I'm on
the floor. My face is right there. The dogs would
literally walk. I'd be like, I was at the far
end of the room is where I, where my little area
was. They would walk in the door and my hair
would stand up and I'd be like, I got to watch
that dog. Literally like that fast. I'd be like,
Oh God. Or somebody would come in and which I
appreciated them. And they're like, the dog's
muzzled and they're all over the dog. And I'm
like, your dog's fine. gonna do it but yeah it's
that well i also think it's um my job my jobs
Right. Have always like, so physical therapy,
it's very much observing tiny little details,
like breaking things down, breaking movement
down. When I do physical therapy on dogs, they
can't tell me anything. I have to notice the
most subtle little hitch in their gait or the
most subtle little thing that's off. So it's
all like visual and my hands like, right. But
it's always like break it down and find it's
always find the problem. Right. Like, and that's
what I do with. like dog training and then teaching,
it's always like, fine. It's C every. So to me,
everything's like blaring, blaring, right? Like
screaming or like, I'll tell people like my,
this girl that worked for me, she's really good.
So I, she's a trainer. So anyway, she brings
her dog over. It's playing with my dog and we're
standing in the yard together, watching them
play. And we're. All of a sudden, I realized
that the entire time the two of us are narrating
what our dogs are saying as they're playing.
And all of a sudden we look at each other and
I'm like, oh, my God. And then we start laughing
and we're like and people are like, I don't know
what my dog's doing. And we're like having this
whole thing where we're every movement they're
making. We're like, oh, don't do that. Oh, that's
OK. Oh, I like you. Oh, don't. But you're going
too far. And so I think part of it I tell people,
too, is like. start watching your dog at home.
Yeah. Like my dogs are so clear when they communicate.
Like they come up to me and they go, can you
please get me some water? Like everything they
do, it's like so obvious and like so clear. And
I'm like, are you watching your, but people don't
even watch their dogs at home because I would
sometimes say to them, does your dog always sit
like that? Like for rehab? And they're like,
I don't know. And in my head, I'm like, how can
you not know? Like I could close my eyes and
tell you exactly how every one of my dog moves,
like from lying down to getting up to like trotting
in the yard to running. Every detail of everything
they do. Like I can tell which dog's coming up
the stairs. I can tell which of my dogs is drinking
without even looking. Right, right. But that's
because you've trained yourself. You have that
observation skill that you've honed in. And for
people that don't have that, you know, there
are so many people that just go through their
whole life so oblivious to everything around
them. I mean, I watched a guy run a red light
yesterday and he had no clue that he did it.
No idea. And he wasn't on his phone. And that's
a red light with cars coming. You know, so for
me to expect that guy to be able to notice how
his dog sits, that's a big leap. Yeah, that's
right. More patient and compassionate than I
am, because when you said that thing way at the
beginning about compassion, I'm like, sometimes
I'll look at my students and I'll be like, oh,
my God, what? Why? But, you know, I want the
lesson to be noticed. I want so much just to
teach people how to see and how to look at things
and take information. That that has been the
whole purpose of my 6C class. And it's I'm so
amazed the impact that it's made on them. And
it's so being the first class, you know, through
Finzi that I've been doing. It's like it's so
cool to see how this is translated to virtual
because this is what I do in my seminars. You
know, I have all these. Virtual is so good. Oh,
it's fascinating because I'm like, how is this
going to translate? You know, because in person
I can see what's happening and I can kind of
narrate like you're saying, like I can narrate
what the dog's doing in real time. And even the
detection seminars, you know what, I did one
in Iowa and it was so cool that the students
were like, OK, can you do this tomorrow and narrate
for my dog? Because I took Radish and I just
narrated everything that I was seeing her do,
how she was reacting to odor, how she was moving,
you know, what she was doing, how, you know,
just her speed or all these things. I'm just
talking about it in real time. And I just thought,
you know, I assumed a lot of these handlers,
their advanced handlers kind of did that. And
they were like, no. I've never had someone do
that in real time like that. That was so cool.
But I had to train myself to do that. I mean,
like, OK, for instance, like I was a high jump
coach. I coached a lot of sports in high school
and one of them was high jump. I can't so much
as touch my toes. And this is a sport you definitely
have to be very flexible. OK, so I've never done
high jump. But I am so good at observing and
I watch so much form and technique and I can
see that like the penultimate step, that last
step right before they launch up. I can see those
details because I've trained my eye to it. Yeah.
And so when some people will say that, you know,
well, if they don't do it, they shouldn't coach
it. I had so many state competitors and I never
I never competed at high jump. Like it's not
something my body can physically do, but I can
see it and I can translate it and I can coach
it. You know, so I think there's so much power
to describing, not judging, not analyzing, not
interpreting, like knock all that off. You're
not ready for it. Describe it like to someone
that's blind. The best thing you can do. And
I used to with kids with artwork is I would say
I actually had a kid call me once like in the
classroom. And I said, I'm going to be over here
with my back turned to the screen and you're
going to describe this artwork to me and I'm
going to create it as you describe it. Mine looked
nothing like what they described. It was hilarious.
That's the whole point. It's like, learn how
to describe it. You'll start to get better at
seeing. Once you can get better at seeing, now
you can set your criteria because you know what
you're actually looking for, you know, and now
you can start actually analyzing. I can actually
see that my dog is moving differently here than
here. I couldn't see that before, but now I can,
now that I can actually describe this. And now
that I can analyze their movement, now I can
interpret this and go, wow, that dog is lame,
you know, or, you know, the dog's really more
excited about this than they are that. And I'm
not I'm still guessing, like even in my interpretation,
but it's an educated guess now. And now I can
make those judgments. Yeah, I think part of it,
too, is like I've always like I was a professional
cyclist. I was always very athletic. Right. So
it's the same thing. It's like breaking those
motor patterns down into tiny pieces. Right.
Because it's like it's like observing, describing
and then being able to describe it in such detail.
Because like when I say if I say to somebody,
break down a pivot. they never break it down
even remotely close to how I break it down. Yeah.
Never, never, even remotely close to how I break
it down. And then I always have to like do a
video of it because I can't even, because I can
describe it and they don't, they don't understand.
Their eyes glaze over. Because in their mind,
break it down means into two pieces. Right. Halfway
and then all the way. And then do halfway twice
and then go all the way every time, right? And
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. Like teeny,
teeny, teeny. Yeah, but it's so interesting.
That's so good. You need to, oh, we'll talk about
that later. Because the way you're, when I listened
to your description of the class, like the six
C's and the snap, I'm like, oh, that's nice.
But then I'm like, oh, wait, no, no, no. You
need to remarket it because every one of my students.
should be taking that class. It's been pretty
cool because it's all about intention. If I explain
to them, no, no, no, no. The reason you are struggling
is because you're missing the skills of observation
and being in the moment. And that's what this
class is going to teach you to do. Yeah, that's
what the whole class is really about. And I could
probably get every single one of my students
to take that class. And I'll make all mine take
your class. That's how you need to market and
brand it because that is what everybody's missing.
But if they hear creative and curious, they're
like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they all want
to get to the end, right? They want to get to
the end. But what they need to understand is
they can't get to the end because it's what you
said at the very beginning, because I wrote it
down. You said training plan, step one, teach
yourself how to be in the moment. None of them
are. You know, teach yourself how to observe.
None of them can do that. I don't want to say
none, but, you know, that's a challenge. It's
a challenge for everybody, right? And that. Yeah,
that's so great. Well, and people don't realize
that these are skills they have to learn. Like
confidence. I have had to teach myself confidence.
Work on that. Yes. This last year, I have grown
so immensely in my confidence. I can't even begin
to stand up in front of someone and do a seminar.
I would rather, I'd rather do terrible things
like go to the gynecologist and dentist in the
same day. Sorry to the guys out there. You just
tuned out. I love it. I love it. And now I can
stand in front of an entire audience and I can
sing to myself, you're so excited and you just
can't hide it instead of, you know, crapping
myself. And then I can just bring it and I can
say, you guys, I don't have the answers. And
I can be so confident in myself in saying that
because I love that I can say that to people.
I don't have the answers, but what I do have
are a lot of questions. And these questions are
important for you because these questions are
going to be the things that are going to help
you figure out what you need for your dog. That
curiosity piece is so huge. It's the backbone
of everything that I do in my training. Because
once you're curious, you get more information.
That more information gives you more questions.
Those questions, that's where creativity comes
from. And when people say that they're not creative,
you're probably just not knowing that you're
being creative. Every time you change one little
variable, you're being creative. That's the first
step. You're practicing that creativity. And
now we can start bringing that and start actually
rehearsing that as a skill. Like, oh, my gosh,
it gets so exciting. You start to see people
when they realize they're actually doing those
things. They just have to learn how to do it.
So like curiosity, creativity, confidence, those
are all skills we just got to learn. And if you're
if you're really interested in getting better
at dog training, those are the intentions you
need to bring into your session. So I don't go
into the session going today. We're going to
get a better sit. I have that as a goal, but
then I have a bigger intention. So today I'm
feeling like we're not very connected. So connection
is my undercurrent. That's what I really want
to focus on, you know, or the emotional state
of my dog. You're like, I really want to see
if I can make you curious about this skill today.
So maybe the behavior is the sit, but this is
the layer to it that brings it all together and
makes it make sense. Right. It's that intention.
And I think about confidence, too. There was
a moment. My friend Nancy, she had this beautiful
moment that I share and I probably overshare
it, but it was so powerful to me. And it's about
that intention. She was with Keys and he's this
amazing decoy and he set up this really challenging
problem. And the decoy is the guy that wears
the suit. And they were in these like two little
teepees and the teepees have a very small space
in between them to heal. And when she went up
there, she knew that he was going to struggle
in that spot. So her mind was saying that's going
to be a hard space. guess where the hard space
was? Exactly where she thought it was going to
be. And so Keyes was like, what were you thinking?
And she said, I knew this would be hard. He goes,
no, it's not. This is not hard. This is easy.
Go back there. Get your mind right and do this.
Come with confidence. You got this. And she did.
And it was gorgeous. She went back to the starting
point. She did her little like shoulders back
and said, Ben, we're doing this like literally
out loud. And she healed up there and he was
in it. He was connected with her and it was not
hard at all. So many times our brains go, there's
a point. There's a friction point. There's a
difficult section, you know, and we make it harder
than it should be. If we can bring our intention
and our confidence into it, that can be the key
for so much of us to just go, yeah, we nailed
this. We can do this. I believe in you. I believe
in me. I don't think a lot of us believe in ourselves
and we don't believe in our dogs a lot of times.
Well, they don't believe in themselves. I think
that and then that bleeds down to the dog, right?
If you don't believe in yourself, that's 100
% going to, then you're going to question the
dog. And for a lot of people, the dog is subconsciously
like an extension of themselves, right? That
was Yukon for me. A reflection of themselves.
What's that? That was Yukon for me. I was like,
dude, I'm a dumb human. Like I can't even train
a dog. Yeah. But then, you know, I'm big on that
whole label labeling thing. Right. I'm like,
no, no, no, no, no. Like, because, you know,
I had that experience with Zeal where, you know,
he was a nervous dog. And so then I labeled him
a nervous dog and then I created a confirmation
bias and then I became an enabler and it became
this whole thing. So when I figured it all out,
when I figured, well, someone helped me figure
out that, you know, I was going down a rabbit
hole. I went, it was kind of silly, but I went
to the store, bought him a new collar, went into
work and said to the girls, he is a confident
dog. He is, you know, a self -assured dog. And
did he instantly become one? No, but I made him
one because I had changed, right? That image
in my head. I was like, you're, and so I like
never do that again. So I'm big with my. students
or anyone really even at a trial I'm like no
don't say that like what are you saying like
you can't say that yes you know you should be
saying this positive thing this you know but
again it's I do think it is also in large part
a reflection of how people feel about themselves
and I think having self -confidence in general
is a challenge but I think you know, at risk
of sounding like I'm 90, not that I'm that far
from it. Oh my God. Things are different now
because if you go on social media, like I remember,
and this was like a long, like a very long time
ago, like eight, nine, 10 years ago. Right. Somebody
said to me, like, I don't know. I'm like, I don't
understand. Like, I'm like such a, I thought
I was a decent trainer and they, but I'm really
not because like so -and -so. Like, look at them.
Like, they're not that experienced. They haven't
been doing this that long. I don't even think
they're such a good trainer. And they're winning
every weekend. And I'm like, are they? Every
weekend they're winning. Yes, they are. And I'm
like, I don't, I don't, I don't know. Like, what
makes you that? Go look on Facebook. They were
not winning every weekend. But even still, like,
it gives that illusion, right? Because people
only put down, oh, look at how great we're doing.
Oh, look at how great my dog's doing. Oh, look
at how great I'm doing. Then it creates this
perception that, you know, everything's sunshine
and roses for everybody but you and your dog.
And I think that makes it even more challenging
for people to, you know, be self -confident,
not be judgmental, not worry about, you know,
when things don't go right. Right. I think in
general, I just feel like we're so fast to jump
to conclusions. I wish that we could be more
generous with our observations because that's
where the curiosity comes from. That's where
all of the information comes from. And we don't
have to worry about what other people are thinking
then. If we're living in that space, you know,
where you observe something and then you don't
go straight to the conclusion of it, you know,
the judgment of it, but just give yourself that
time to be curious and ask questions. And I think
people would be so much happier. Yeah. Yeah.
Well said. Oh, my God, this was so good. I wrote
this is going to really actually. A tremendous
help for me as an instructor, because I've been
really thinking an enormous amount for probably
like six months now. You know, how can I present
things differently? Like, why is it that people
are struggling with X, Y and Z? And so this has
really helped give me like a much more clear
perspective. And then now I can convey that to
them. Yeah. Same. Yay. So glad to help. Wow.
Y 'all are like my heroes. No, like for sure.
Because sometimes I sit there and I'm like, what
is happening? Like, why don't we see this? What
is happening? We're all trying to convey it to
our students, you know, like that. And that's
why we teach. Like we want to help them. We want
to make it. Well, how can we, how can, what can
we give them to be able to see or find out what
we're really talking about? You know, that's
always the thing when you're talking, when you
talk all this stuff to your student, they're
just looking at you with those big eyes. And
I go, do you, do you understand what I'm saying?
And they're like. I'm like, yeah, I understand.
Cause you're just kind of blankly staring at
me. No, I think that we want to help them. We
wouldn't be doing this. We'd be doing something
else, right? We wouldn't be writing blogs. We
wouldn't be teaching like, because we really
want to help them at the end of the day. Right.
And so if they're struggling and I'm struggling
to help them, then I'm frustrated because I.
I want them to do better, right? Like I want
them to be successful and I don't want them to
be frustrated or knocking themselves down. And
so if I can just give them better information
or a better perspective, then that, that helps
them. And it also helps me. It makes, you know,
it helps me feel better and it helps them. So
like, there's so many things on here. On my crazy
looking paper. I always got scribbles on my paper
too. I went to the backside of it even. All the
notes. I'm like, oh God, then I have to look
at it later. Do I even know? But yeah, no, the
observation thing, that's so huge. And the video,
you know what's helped, been super helpful is,
I don't know, I can't even remember. how or why
I started doing this. I want to say it's been
at least, I want to say it's been several years.
Time flies. My students would know better than
me. I don't know what made me even think of it
is, you know how like when you do video review
and you're like at 30 seconds, blah, blah, blah.
Then one day I was like, I'm just going to record
this. Yeah. And then I have my little cursor
thing. And I think a lot more instructors are
doing this now. They weren't then because I asked
about it. They were all like, what are you doing?
But I'm like, I don't know. My students loved
it because I could show in real time on the video
and say, see right here. And they're like, oh,
and then I'm like, see right there. So instead
of having to say like at 35 seconds when your
dog turned their head, blah, blah, blah, I can
just point it out and say it. Yeah. And I think
that's been. It's been so helpful. Yeah, definitely.
I think the most helpful thing that I've had
in my class is the like, wish, wonder as the
main structure, because. All throughout, my feedback
is always, I like this, I wish this, I wonder
this. So they know what to expect from me. And
then what that creates is this habit of wondering.
And that wondering is the curiosity space instead
of any sort of judgment. And so I'm always trying
to think about how can I model that. We're not
judging any of this because I think that's the
hang up that I'm having with a lot of people
and helping them improve is that they're so afraid
of being wrong. And so instead of thinking about
it being wrong, they're thinking of information
and they're thinking about, well, now I wonder
about this. And as soon as I can get that vocabulary
in for them, I feel like that's been the turning
point for the training. So anytime that I can
get them to get away from the fear of being wrong
and just start thinking that. And that's where
all the stuff that I set up in the class is all
about. You can't be wrong. Like we're setting
up all these problems that there's no right.
So I think that's a great starting point. A great
entry point for people is to set up things that
there's no wrong answer. And then you don't have
to worry about that. And now you can practice
being curious and asking questions. Well, I told
you my dog's always. It wouldn't be a dog podcast
without dogs. Come on. It's always. It's always.
It always happens. Every single time. They're
like, shut up, mom. People would probably be
like, are her dogs okay? Yeah, right. They didn't
bother. Oh, my God. This was so, so, so, so good.
Oh, good. I'm thankful you let me come on. Thank
you. My aha moment of the morning that I was
like, I want to record a podcast today. So I'm
so thankful for you guys because this is exactly
what I wanted to talk about. So thank you for
this opportunity. Thanks for sharing. My students
are going to thank you because I'm able to like
share all this with them. And this is so good.
Thank you so much. I'm sure we'll be back together
again at some point in the future. Can't get
rid of me. Now there's more to talk about. Yay.
And it's so good to meet you, Lori. You're amazing.
Thank you so much. Yeah, thank you. So good to
meet you. Yay. Well, thanks again, friends. All
right. Thanks, everybody. And we will talk to
you next time, whenever that is. Thanks. Bye.