Katie Joins Hysteria with Alyssa Mastromonaco on Kamala Harris & Childfree Cat Ladies

00:00:07
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Hysteria. I'm Alyssa Mastromonico.

00:00:10
Speaker 2: Oh and I'm Katie Curic Hi Alissa.

00:00:13
Speaker 3: Yes she is, that's right.

00:00:15
Speaker 1: Katie Award winning journalist, one of my favorite journalists. She hosts her own podcast, Next Question, and is one of the greatest media makers of all time.

00:00:25
Speaker 3: Is our co host for the next couple of weeks.

00:00:27
Speaker 1: Katie, it's summer tomato season. I happen to know you love a good tomato and mayo sandwich.

00:00:34
Speaker 3: How do you make yours? How do you make yours?

00:00:36
Speaker 2: Well, Alyssa, I have to say I had my first of the summer with an heirloom tomato that I grew in my backyard. Yesterday, I had some frozen bread that I got from Carissa's, which is a bakery near my house in East Hampton, and I slice it and I freeze it because you know, usually it goes bad and it's delicious called honey wheat. Uncharacteristically, yesterday I toasted my bread because, let's face it, I had no choice it was frozen, right, and then used Sorry Duke's fans, I used my helmets mayonnaise, my sliced heirloom tomato, mald and salt, some cracked pepper and that was it, baby, and it was surfect. And I realized, Melyssa, if I actually eat a sandwich, I'm not hungry till dinner. Why didn't I realize that earlier. It's like women are so screwed up, you know. We eat like, oh, I'll have a half a cup of cottage cheese with a peach, and then by four o'clock you're ravenous and eating everything that's not nailed down. So my advice to all your listeners is eat people. You'll be better off for it.

00:01:44
Speaker 3: You will be better off her.

00:01:45
Speaker 1: But also so funny, Katie, because in this episode I interview Evan Kleinman, who last night for dinner had cottage cheese and a peach.

00:01:53
Speaker 2: That's so funny. Well, hopefully it was a fresh peach. But I've been so delicious this season.

00:01:58
Speaker 1: Evan's living her best and just trying to enjoy peaches in the purest form.

00:02:03
Speaker 2: Okay, well I'm with her on that. Sometimes I'll just slice a peach and put like milk on it and in a bowl and just sit in my backyard and I feel like Jay Alfred proofrat do I dare to eat a peach?

00:02:17
Speaker 3: And you do?

00:02:17
Speaker 2: Dare to eat the peach I do.

00:02:19
Speaker 1: This week, Katie and I get into all things Kamala Harris and the misogynistic ire Republicans are hurling her way, and how Republicans are insidiously changing their platform.

00:02:27
Speaker 3: All right, let's get into it.

00:02:31
Speaker 1: Hysteria the podcast for people aggressively binge watching VEEP for guidance on what to do next.

00:02:37
Speaker 3: So much shit has happened since we last recorded the show.

00:02:40
Speaker 2: You're not kidding, my god, I mean, it's insane, right.

00:02:43
Speaker 1: Biden's dropped out of the race, He's endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris to be the Democratic nominee.

00:02:49
Speaker 3: Cogan ripped off his shirt at the RNC so much.

00:02:54
Speaker 2: And did you include the assassination attempt against Donald Trump or did you have a recording after that?

00:03:00
Speaker 1: We had a recording after that, so we covered the Maxi pad on his ear and all of that stuff. That's you know, you know how it is, Katie. He put it out there and the supporters put it on their ears, so it was fair game.

00:03:13
Speaker 2: I saw there were many many white square bandages. One of the funniest things I saw is there was a my pillow logo. I saw it on some of them. You have to admit, Alyssa, people are so funny and clever. I think for all the woes of the Internet and the vitriol and depravity, it's unleashed. People are really funny and clever and I am talented.

00:03:39
Speaker 3: They're funny, they're clever, they're talented. They give us so much to talk about.

00:03:43
Speaker 1: And Katie's speaking of the last time you were on Hysteria. Your interview with Vice President Kamala Harris had dropped that day, So this is like true full circle moment for us.

00:03:54
Speaker 2: It definitely is. And I went back and we've actually posted some excerpts from that interview. I went down in January and it was snowing, and yeah, we had a thirty minute conversation. I spent some time with her. You know, she's actually very petite. She doesn't read as petite on screen. She you know, she says Wikipedia got her height wrong. I guess she's about five five or five six.

00:04:21
Speaker 1: Really, Yeah, Honestly, on television, I'm going to say she does read like five nine five times.

00:04:25
Speaker 2: She just reads as a much sort of bigger, taller person and She's quite petite and was very engaging, and I really encouraged her to just have a conversation with me as if we were sitting across from each other having a cup of coffee.

00:04:42
Speaker 1: And in that interview, you actually were sitting across from each other, like I remember, it being a sort of a much more conversant interaction than.

00:04:49
Speaker 3: Usually she has.

00:04:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hope so. But you know, it was interesting because I still was somewhat frustrated. I talked to her, it was sort of what was happening in the Middle East, and I said, what happened on October seventh was unimaginably horrific. And I don't think anyone can even describe the terrible things that happened that day. We've read so much about the sexual assaults that occurred, and just the depravity of the way people were killed, just horrific. Having said that, let's turn our attention to civilian casualties in Gaza, and the first thing she said was let's talk about October seventh, And he almost felt like she was reverting to, you know, not really talking points, but had a very specific outline and agenda, and you know, and of course that took up a lot of time, you know, when you have a half hour with someone, every second counts. But I think it was really great to talk to her. I think she did. She was much more conversant than I'd seen her in previous interviews, so I was happy about that.

00:06:03
Speaker 1: So this weekend, now, Katie, you've been reporting on the news for a long time, You've been being a journalist for a long time. What was your reaction when the news broke on Sunday that President Biden was going to step off the ticket.

00:06:18
Speaker 2: Well, we had heard, obviously rumblings from a lot of different sources, and I'm sure Alyssa you were hearing the same thing that it was likely to happen on Sunday. I think what through everyone was that Trump's convention speech was so bad and so long and so sort of boring and rambling. I worried that that might have energized or made the Biden team have second thoughts. They might have seen his speech and said to themselves, you know, he is beatable, and that maybe they had changed their minds. But we had been hearing for a long time, or at least not a long time really, but a few days that the announcement was going to come that weekend, so I was sort of surprised and sad, and it was such a It was almost weirdly an exciting yet anti climatic, because you knew it was coming, and I had so many conflicting feelings. A friend of mine had just sent me an article from the Bulwark that said, enough already with the Biden's psychodrama, right, and I thought, oh, gosh, how long is this going to go on? We had heard rumors that perhaps they were going to have the electronic vote and that Joe Biden was going to be delivered the delegates, be validated and then release them. But then I wondered, well, if that happened, would that make him second guests dropping out again? So I think that I was. I was surprised and yet not surprised, if that's possible.

00:07:58
Speaker 3: Right now, I think you know what it is. I was not surprised by the announcement. I was surprised by my personal reaction, Yeah.

00:08:05
Speaker 1: Because I definitely I got sad, I cried a little bit, I felt bad. I think that I tried to understand what it took for him.

00:08:13
Speaker 2: To get to that place, right, Yeah, And I think you know, a friend of mine was at the swimming pool with her family and they announced it over the loudspeaker. Really everyone started cheering. And that's tough. You know, it is tough, and it makes me sad. I've known Joe Biden for a long time, you know, I've covered many of his presidential runs, and you know, it's a shame. On the other hand, you know, when I compared it to taking the keys away from an elderly driver, you know, someone smartly pointed out to me, you know, this wasn't just an elderly driver. This was an elderly man who was running the country. And I feel so many different things. I'm sad. I hope though, that he'll be celebrated at the convention and appreciated and get the adulation that I think he deserves. On the other hand, I'm still a little myth that he didn't make this decision earlier and that he put everyone through this huge amount of stress.

00:09:16
Speaker 3: Do you think so.

00:09:17
Speaker 1: I was listening to Doris Karen's Goodwin the other day and she was talking about when LBJ decided to step down, and that before he made the announcement, he looked horrible. He was so worn his eyes were dark circles, and that after he made his speech, Ladybird said she could literally see the stress lifted off of his shoulders. Do you think that this will have the we're speaking today on Wednesday? Biden is set to address the nation tonight at eight o'clock. Do you think that Do you think that it will have the same effect on him? And how do you think, now that he is unburdened by being a candidate, he's going to approach the rest of his term.

00:09:57
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, if you think we're conflicted, imagine how he feels, just on a human level. I think he feels. I thought about him, how he must feel, or how he felt the day after the morning he woke up after that debate. You know, we've all had bad things happen to us and we wake up and we've forgotten them in our sleep, and suddenly we're like, oh God, that was real. That was real. And so I think he must feel so conflicted. You know, Listen, no one really knows the extent of any health issues he might be having. I really I feel like presumptuous to kind of say how he's feeling, because I really don't know but I do think that there will be a sense of urgency to finish his term with a bang and to get some things accomplished. Now, who knows if he'll be able to because Capitol Hill is so paralyzed and so hopeless polarized. So but I hope that My hope for him is that he will feel really proud, that he'll feel like the elder statesman he deserves to be, that as I said, he'll be celebrated at the convention, and that he'll be a powerful voice in the campaign for Kamala Harris. But I think all those things are true.

00:11:26
Speaker 1: Have you been surprised by the energy that Kamala Harris being at the top of the ticket has brought to the election?

00:11:33
Speaker 3: Now?

00:11:33
Speaker 2: No, because I think there was so much almost a depression had set over Democrats and people who are Republicans but don't feel comfortable supporting Donald Trump. And I think it just felt like we were driving this slow car off a cliff, and that the convention was going to be kind of lifeless, sort of begrudging endorsement and support for President Biden when his support was twindling, And I think, you know, people just weren't excited about this election. You hear about the what are they called? When they hated both double haters right? And I think that people were desperately seeking energy and generational change, and that's why I think people were so excited about the prospect of having Kamala Harris on the ticket. But I think also they would have been excited about anyone that they could rally around. And I was surprised that, after so much talk about a sort of mini primary or an open process, when other people could throw their hats into the ring, that she was really anointed so quickly, and that everybody fell in line. I think, ultimately that's a good thing, but that surprised me. I didn't think there would be such a rush to support her.

00:13:06
Speaker 3: I agree.

00:13:07
Speaker 1: I mean in the first twenty four and not even the first twenty four hours, and this in the first eight hours, I think all fifty Democratic state party chairs had endorsed her. To date, as we speak today, she's raised more money than any person in presidential election history.

00:13:22
Speaker 2: Now what is the number up to?

00:13:23
Speaker 3: I note it was, It's crazy. You can't even keep track of it.

00:13:26
Speaker 1: I know that the I know that as of I think last night, as of Tuesday, afternoon. The campaign itself, so just Harris for President had raised ninety two million dollars.

00:13:39
Speaker 3: But Katie, here's the craziest thing.

00:13:41
Speaker 1: Sixty percent of the donations to the Harris for President campaign were new donors, and forty thousand people made their donations recurring.

00:13:51
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:13:51
Speaker 1: So it's like, I am very now, Katie, because you are the journalist and I am the political hack who's done many campaigns, and so I'm very doomsday about things. I'm like, okay, okay, let's not like smell our own farts here. You know, like there's a lot, there's a lot left to happen. You know, like the money is great.

00:14:06
Speaker 2: You never heard that expression, and it's disgusting.

00:14:09
Speaker 1: It's disgusting, but it's it's accurate, and you know exactly what I meant. And so I'm like, we have to be careful. We can't sit on her, we can't rest on our laurels. Right, Like, this is great. It's the first four days, three days.

00:14:20
Speaker 2: Since this is and there's also a lot of other things. I mean, I think that there's this exhilaration and a bulliance right now among Democrats, but I think, you know, that's sort of like the high you get when you fall in love and then things kind of normalize. And I was listening to the Daily Alyssa and you know her favorability ratings, as you well know the Democratic hack you are that are are problematic, right And and as James Carville said, I interviewed him yesterday, he's so funny. He was in front of like a bar full of liquor. I don't even know where he was.

00:14:56
Speaker 1: And that's always a little bit of skew.

00:14:59
Speaker 2: All is lsu Garbon, who's just so funny. I've known him for a long time too. Do you know he's going to be eighty years old? Is that crazy? Yes, it is crazy. But anyway, he said, you know, there's a lot of work to be done. So I think you're right. People cannot, you know, inhale their own flatulence.

00:15:24
Speaker 3: Correct. I gave you a better one, rest on their laurels. We can't rest.

00:15:28
Speaker 2: Only And there's I think there are a lot of minds to be persuaded, you know. I was talking to my husband and he said, wow, a lot of men don't like Kamala Harris. Because he'd been on a golf trip, right, So I asked him, I said, I'm going to be doing a podcast with Melissa. I'm curious, why why don't we like her? Is? What is it? And he said, they think she you know, my husband's a businessman. He golfs with a lot of business guys, and they think she's too progressive, not pro business enough, not supportive of business interests. And I think it's sort of who's ahead of the FTC that has become a real lightning rod Lena Kon exactly, and I think that they're concerned about that. So I thought that was an interesting, very very small focus group.

00:16:24
Speaker 3: It's a small focus group.

00:16:26
Speaker 1: And also those were not misogynistic reasons, so that's encouraging.

00:16:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, those are all policy related. I'm okay with that.

00:16:33
Speaker 1: And you know, but Katie, the thing that's so interesting is that when people are always talking about vice presidents, is always seen as this launching pad for the presidency, right, but it's not actually So I did a low research and only one incumbent vice president, George Herbert Walker Bush, has been elected from the vice presidency to president since Martin Van Buren.

00:17:00
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:17:00
Speaker 1: So Truman and LBJ were promoted to president and then went on to have successful elections. Ford was promoted to the presidency after Nixon resigned and then lost in nineteen seventy six. Nixon and Biden went on to win after taking a hiatus from public office.

00:17:18
Speaker 2: Fascinating, you're a regular Doris Kurn's Goodwin. I like it.

00:17:21
Speaker 3: Well, listen, it's to me. I just like to I like a lot of perspective.

00:17:26
Speaker 2: Right by the way, that's fascinating, And maybe that shouldn't be widely distributed, because I don't think it's particularly helpful problem it.

00:17:34
Speaker 3: Was, it's it's to me.

00:17:37
Speaker 1: When we were on a campaign, I just think, you know, when David Pluff ran the race, which you came, we still all talk about the day you came to headquarters when when he ran the race, he is like, every day has to be on the high wire. You can never believe the polls. You always have to run like you're down. And so I think that we're all so many people are very energized.

00:17:57
Speaker 3: I'm energized.

00:17:58
Speaker 1: I'm really glad that that Kamala Harris has come out of the gate like on gusts, right, But we just I just it's always good to remember that there are headwinds, you know, like right, there are Headwinds and Katie. I actually, so you have a morning newsletter wake Up Call, which I read every day, and you in this morning's issue get into the deep steaks and which I think is when you interview James Carvill and Broke Rocanna right right right, So I would love to know who who on the short list that you're hearing about is sparking.

00:18:33
Speaker 3: Interest for you.

00:18:35
Speaker 2: Well, I'm pretty friendly with Mark Kelly because I covered Gabby Gifford so much when she was shot, and I really like Mark. He's been an amazing partner to Gabby Gifford's I think his such high integrity and character. He's got a military background. He's a member of the NRA, but support stricter gun laws, which surprisingly seventy four percent of our A members do. That's a big misnomer saw the gun manufacturers. But that's another subject. And I just think that he would be an interesting choice the governor of Arizona's Democratics so they don't have to worry about the Senate going to a Republican and so I think Mark Kelly is an interesting choice. James Carville talked about Mitch Landrew. Now weirdly I'm friendly with Mitch Landrew too. And you know, when you've been around as long as I am, I'm not name dropping. I do know these so no, no, no, But I don't know Andy Basheer, for example, and someone had a photo of him and said his family was made in a lab precisely for this moment. I don't know if you saw the picture.

00:19:49
Speaker 3: It's very John Edwards circa two thousand and four.

00:19:52
Speaker 2: It is very John Edwards and is very white. Everything about that photo is white. Their clothes are white, although somebody parted from the instructions and wore khakis or kind of a toad color pants, and I was like, that person is busted. But anyway, I really like Mitch llan Andrew. I think he is an incredible communicator. That was James Carville's point too. I think he you know, he's head of the campaign, He was really involved in implementing infrastructure. I just don't know if being the mayor of New Orleans is enough. He had an incredible courage to take down the Confederate statues and get delivered that really important speech. I don't know if that's gonna dissuade yahoos from kind of supporting him. Honestly, but I like both of them. How about you, allis I'm curious, and you know, I think you also know more about the calculations that are involved in picking a vice presidential candidate. You know where they can compensate for the top of the any perceived weaknesses and top of the ticket geographic considerations, state considerations. Oh, by the way, can I just say two other people who I really like? First of all, Gretchen Whitmer. I interviewed her at the Asman Ideas Festival. I love amazing, but I didn't talk to her enough about public policy, so she was. I love talking to her. She's got a great story, She's so personal, she's so normal, you know. I felt like, you know, we.

00:21:25
Speaker 3: Were a big gretch.

00:21:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, big gretch. And her book is called True Gretch. Honestly, I don't know her publisher is, but I would have said, maybe we can come up with another title. But anyway, she is fabulous and I love Pete boudajudge mm hmmm hmm. But I don't know a black woman and a gay vice president. I think that might be a bridge too far. But maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong. And Josh Sapiro Maggie Haberman told me he wasn't interested. I don't know how she knows that. But he's only been governor for a year and a half. Do you think, by the way, being Jewish would hurt you now or like someone James Carville said Joe Lieberman, it didn't hurt him. And but but I don't know. I don't know. With the rise in anti Semitism, I worry about everything a sudden.

00:22:19
Speaker 3: Because I know, you know, here's the thing.

00:22:21
Speaker 1: Having been so back in two thousand and four, I actually set up all of the meeting I think John Carey met with like eight people in person around the country, and I was there for most of those meetings.

00:22:33
Speaker 2: Now that I spent fascinating it was.

00:22:35
Speaker 1: I mean, there was at one point when I had to throw Bob Graham, Senator from Florida into literally physically throw him into a car and put a jacket over his head because reporters Katie thought that this was actually very funny. John Carrey was getting a lot of dental work done back then, and they were convinced that the VP meetings were happening at the dentist's office.

00:22:56
Speaker 3: And we actually so weird.

00:22:57
Speaker 1: It's so weird, but we you know, to me, having heard some of those meetings, seeing how Barack Obama did his VP process, honestly, it usually just comes down to like do I trust this person like chemistry right? And can this person be my teammate right? And so I think that for Vice President Harris Mark Kelly, to me, is the easiest person to introduce to America. His bio is fighter pilot, astronaut, senator hero, you know, like husband of Gabby Gifford's.

00:23:36
Speaker 3: I think America would get him real quick, like.

00:23:38
Speaker 1: Even people who people who are not really familiar with him. I think, just you do one bioad and I feel like people are like, huh, he seems like a good dude. You throw the NRA stuff in there, make sure people don't think that he's gonna come take their guns away.

00:23:52
Speaker 2: And plus he's an identical twins, so he can be two vices at once exactly. Absolutely doesn't that sound like a movie, by the way?

00:24:01
Speaker 3: It does?

00:24:01
Speaker 1: And then I think the interesting thing, So there, So, Josh Shapiro, Pennsylvania Democrats cannot win without Pennsylvania. I normally do not think that picking someone based on their state is worth anything. We picked John Carey pick John Edwards because he was from North Carolina. We lost to North Carolina, so it didn't do us any good. But Josh Shapiro's won statewide three times. He's incredibly attorney general, He's incredibly popular in Pennsylvania. He's a dynamic campaigner, he's great on TV. So I if I had to do two, I think I'd put those two at the top.

00:24:38
Speaker 3: And then Roy Cooper from North Carolina.

00:24:40
Speaker 2: I don't know much about him.

00:24:41
Speaker 3: I don't know much.

00:24:42
Speaker 1: About him either, actually, but he's won statewide six times.

00:24:46
Speaker 3: I think in North Carolina, and.

00:24:47
Speaker 2: It's term more important than North Carolina. Uh.

00:24:51
Speaker 1: I think North Carolina, and we can cut this if I'm wrong. I think North Carolina has three fewer electoral votes.

00:24:58
Speaker 3: I think it's something like that.

00:25:00
Speaker 1: But he and Kamala have a relationship going back many years, I think.

00:25:04
Speaker 3: Actually, I think she and Josh Shapiro do too.

00:25:07
Speaker 1: I think they go back because they were all they were ages, and so I think they've known each other for a long time. So I hope that she picks whoever she feels is just going to go out there and kill it.

00:25:18
Speaker 3: And also, here's a question.

00:25:20
Speaker 2: For you, Katie, and then I have one for you.

00:25:22
Speaker 1: Okay, do you think Trump is regretting jd Vance right now?

00:25:27
Speaker 2: I know there have been some articles about that. I know that when he gave his first or you know, did his first solo rally, it was so boring. It was boring, and he made a stupid joke about diet coke no diet mountain do diet mountain dew, I do apologize.

00:25:44
Speaker 3: I was so confused. I was like, what does dietet mountain do have to.

00:25:47
Speaker 2: Do with I think he's saying, like the Democrats think everything is you know, race, you know, has to do with race. Everybody was like, what do.

00:25:58
Speaker 3: You know, Katie?

00:25:59
Speaker 1: I do feel like a lot of the Republican's speech writing. I noticed this all during the convention, and I noticed it in jd Vance's speech the other day in Ohio. They're writing in what they think are applause lines, and I guarantee you there's an in perendz like hold for applause and they're not getting applause, and there's just like these weird awkward pause.

00:26:16
Speaker 2: Hopefully he's not saying pause, Well that's true, right, Yeah. And that leads me to a question for you, Alyssa, do you think that the Biden administration set Kamala Harris up for success as a VP? Because I feel like they could have done more. I think this whole idea of giving her the border was very hard, was ridiculous and honestly like really a shitty thing to do. Whoever did that. And I also feel and I've said this at a couple of dinner parties. I've been at Lady.

00:26:52
Speaker 1: Da Oh you fancy, lady So fancy you're a dinner party read from the Hamptons.

00:27:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm very fancy. I feel like Joe Biden's reticence to be, you know, upfront with the media or not upfront, but to be out there to do interviews also hurt her because they had an opportunity, it seems to me, to do some joint interviews, joint appearances, to sit with network news anchors, to be with the New York Times so he could elevate her and prop her up. What is your feeling about how they treated her or if they could have done more to get her in a position where everyone automatically thought of her if anything happened to Joe Biden.

00:27:40
Speaker 1: So when they came out of the Gate and gave her immigration as her signature issue. I was like sick to my stomach for her. There is no person who was going to solve immigration, you know, like it was. It was such a no upside portfolio for her. And I think we're seeing that now. I mean, it's the number one attack that the Republicans are coming out with in ads on Fox News, you know, And and immigration is a very fraud issue right now. So there's resonance, you know, there is stickiness to these attacks, and they are hard to combat because.

00:28:20
Speaker 3: It's still a problem.

00:28:21
Speaker 2: And she has told me that when we talked, she she told me that it was really her was she was given the responsibility of understanding the root causes of immigration, to look at the Central American countries and what was happening there and why so many people were leaving. But nonetheless, nobody really makes that distinction there.

00:28:47
Speaker 1: And even I did not understand that distinction until I read it in like paragraph twenty of an article the other day, right right, And so I think that, unfortunately, that is going to be a real thing for her to overcome.

00:29:00
Speaker 2: I want to ask you about two other things. Am I allowed to just take out cat go ahead. So James Carville said. Another thing that may hurt Kamala, but I I don't really understand this and I don't necessarily agree, is how complicit was she in, you know, not not doing anything about Joe Biden's declining health or you know, his inability to kind of be completely cojin at all times. And I don't even think that's the right word. I want to tread light no, no, no, but but I can.

00:29:37
Speaker 1: It is it's the first ad that Maga pat came out with, you know. It is this this uh idea that she owns everything they did and that she was complicit in quotes I'm doing quotes for listeners, complicit in hiding whatever has been ailing him. And I think to here here would be my point of view on that attack. I think the people who want to believe that were never going to vote for her anyway, right, That's right. And I think that based on just everything we have seen in public, it does feel like whatever's been going on with the president has happened pretty recently. I agree, you know, I don't say that he hasn't shown his age over the past three and a half years. Definitely, I don't think maybe tripping sometimes is a sign that you're not fit to lead. I think that's bullshit, but it's it was to me. It was really funny when Maga came out with that ad, which is basically, what did she know? And when they try to make it sound like an episode of Law and Order or like Watergate, totally, I thought to myself, they really were caught flat footed, Like these are people, Katie, who have been calling for Joe Biden, all the Republicans.

00:30:51
Speaker 3: He's not fit. Look at the videos we've made of him.

00:30:53
Speaker 1: He trips, he slurred a word, like first of all, Trump has done all the same things, just saying and I was like, that's the best they've got. And it was like a very cheap looking ad And I was like, okay.

00:31:03
Speaker 2: Well maybe it was slapped together so quickly, right, but you know, I know they stopped. I think they stopped running anti Biden ads right pretty quickly. Even so they must have had some inkling this. It was.

00:31:18
Speaker 1: They had to put something in the can, and let me tell you, it came out like something that they put together in about an hour to just get out.

00:31:24
Speaker 3: And I think it was only a digital ad.

00:31:26
Speaker 2: So the other question I had for you is how much will be made about the turnover and her office and what do you know about that? I know that there haven't been a lot of people who have stayed in the Vice President's office for an extended period of time. Listen, I was sort of the Murphy Brown of NBC. I had so many assistants during one period of time and until I found somebody who's like a sister to me. But do you think the Republicans who are going to make a big deal out of that or not? Really?

00:32:01
Speaker 1: I think they'll try to, but I think that you know, if you turn on cable news right now, you only see people who formerly worked for her who are singing her praises now. So to me, look, you know how fickle DC is. People get into the White House and sometimes they can't handle it.

00:32:17
Speaker 3: Katie. It is hard.

00:32:19
Speaker 1: It is a lot of work, and so we don't know there there has been rumors of like her turnover, but like there's never.

00:32:26
Speaker 3: Been a real story about it.

00:32:28
Speaker 1: So I think that we shall give her the benefit of the doubt in this instance and just say that, you know, Donald Trump had like no staff left at the end of.

00:32:38
Speaker 2: His term, So I mean every time. Every time something is suggested, it's like, wait a second, what Like it's the ultimate pot calling the kettle black, right, I mean it is every time, you know, if you think about this whole line of attack, which is very disconcerting to me a woman, about Kamala Harris. She's childless, you know, all these tropes Kamala Harris slept her way to the top. I mean, it is just so obnoxious.

00:33:12
Speaker 3: It's technical misogyny, you know.

00:33:14
Speaker 2: Like, wait a second, first of all, check your facts. Secondly, you know, and I don't know, I've seen tweets and things that basically say she's not qualified, and I'm like, what are you talking about?

00:33:30
Speaker 3: What are you talking about?

00:33:31
Speaker 1: Senator from the largest state, attorney general from the largest state by population obviously Alaska's the biggest physically.

00:33:38
Speaker 3: But you know, she has taken people down, you know, and it's funny to the.

00:33:43
Speaker 2: Point where it's really upset a lot of progressives by the way, which I think is actually ultimately good for her candidacy.

00:33:51
Speaker 1: I think that you know, the the in twenty eighteen, I think it was she had an ad when she was Kamala Harris for the People, and it was you know, Trump had a for profit college. She took down the for profit colleges. She's a prosecutor, he's a fraudster. Her twenty twenty four version of that ad I cannot wait to see because he's now like a convicted felon. He's been indicted ninety something times. Like I think that the Republicans are so scared they're doubling down on this misogyny.

00:34:25
Speaker 3: I mean, look, I have a great one.

00:34:26
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty one, jd Vance said, we are running this country by a bunch of childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives and want to make the rest of the country miserable.

00:34:39
Speaker 2: That is so funny because I put on my Instagram stories I love Andy Borwitz. Oh yes, the Borowitz Report, and his headline was Nation's cats lash out at jd Vance A million meow march.

00:34:54
Speaker 1: It was, it was, And he goes on to say the whole future of the Democratic Party is controlled by people like Kamala Harrison, child childless women.

00:35:04
Speaker 3: JAD do better.

00:35:07
Speaker 1: But you know, the one thing, Katie I was really looking forward to seeing her debate jd Vance, I mean people are forgetting that because you know and everybody. A lot of people will say, well, she was vice president and we haven't seen her enough, and you know, Republicans and we don't even know what she's been doing. And it's like, Okay, the vice president's job is not to be seen as the president's the star. You know. The vice president in every instance is the backup dancer. And so to me, I think that they have all forgotten. They should all go back and watch her question Brett Kavanaugh during the hearings, because she is ready for Trump. And I think that that is the thing that I feel most excited about.

00:35:53
Speaker 2: Do you think though? So? Again, in my James Carville interview, I was talking to him about that, and as you know, Donald Trump has already tried to say, I don't want this debate to be on ABC, They're too biased. I wanted to be on Fox, you know. And and James said he thought Donald Trump is going to pull out of the debate. Yeah, And I said, but I said, won't that be embarrassing, like I'm too afraid to debate Kamala Harris? And he said no, it's very easy to pull out of debates. And I was interested to hear that is.

00:36:29
Speaker 3: It that easy?

00:36:29
Speaker 2: To pull out of debates.

00:36:31
Speaker 1: It didn't used to be, right, It didn't used to be But I think now here's the thing, Katie, is that like we have seen by Donald Trump picking jd Vance, he wasn't trying to expand his electorate, right, he was doubling down on the base.

00:36:45
Speaker 3: The base isn't going to give a shit if he doesn't debate her.

00:36:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to be We're going to tweet about it and put it on Instagram, but like they're not going to care. And so I hope his ego gets the better of him and he ultimately thinks that he can beat her and then wants to her. And I do think I could be wrong, but I think if he was like, I'll only do it on Fox News, I bet she does it.

00:37:07
Speaker 2: You know, you think she think she will do it on Fox.

00:37:11
Speaker 3: I think she would do it on Fox.

00:37:12
Speaker 2: I guess it would be Brett Baer or someone who's not their most partisan you know, red meat anchors moderating right right.

00:37:21
Speaker 1: And I think that if you look back over the past like five or six years, Bernie Sanders has done town halls on Fox News, Pete budage Edge did Fox News town halls and they were incredibly successful, and I actually thought very compelling because when you go David Pluff always used to say, you got to go into the belly of the beast, right, you got to show you're not afraid. And I think that that would show. I mean, I think it would show she's not afraid. So if it comes down to that, I personally think she could handle it and she should do it. But because I think it would be terrible for America to not see them to debate.

00:37:55
Speaker 2: I agree, I agree, and I maybe even I think if her campaign really wont to show Trump whose boss, she could say, that's fine, I'll critivate him on Box and then what's he gonna do?

00:38:07
Speaker 3: Right then he's backed into a corner, right.

00:38:10
Speaker 2: Well, then that be awesome. Why don't you tell them that what we want to get in there.

00:38:13
Speaker 1: Katie, we're telling them right now. We're telling them right now. Alyssa and Katie say, girl, go get it on Box News.

00:38:19
Speaker 3: Yeah you can do it. So Katie, here's another.

00:38:22
Speaker 1: We've been talking about all this for the past like three weeks. It has been NonStop breaking news rumors. You can't keep up. I mean, honestly, like you know. I work with George Stephanopoulos.

00:38:35
Speaker 3: I sent him. I sent him a tweet and I tried to retract it. I was like, wait, it's fake. It's fake.

00:38:40
Speaker 2: It's fake.

00:38:40
Speaker 3: I didn't mean to send this. It's fake. This isn't real.

00:38:43
Speaker 1: And I think that even for me, you know, people like us last election cycle, Twitter had verification. Verification meant that you were actually who you said you were, and if you were a news organization, you were an actual news organization.

00:38:56
Speaker 3: Katie, you're a journalist.

00:38:58
Speaker 1: How are you sifting through the information that's coming in at rapid pace? And how would you tell people to try to like consume what's happening.

00:39:08
Speaker 2: I mean, I would say three words, alyssa, consider the source. And unfortunately it can be time consuming. But you have to look at people's profiles. You know. Now, of course you said verification. I'm not a huge Twitter person. I didn't. I did enjoy being on the platform during President Trump's speech because people were being so funny.

00:39:33
Speaker 1: It got back to its origin story, you know, like what we originally liked Twitter for.

00:39:38
Speaker 2: And like people that I hadn't talked to for a while. It felt like a communal experience, like Michael Beschloss. I was tweeting Karen Tumult, TIMULTI and just a bunch of people who I've known through the years, and that was kind of fun because I was responding to their tweets and Larry Sabato, who is from UVA and where I went to college, and so that was really fun. But I generally would not recommend getting information on X but if you do, you have to look at the profile. You have to then sometimes google the organization that is putting this stuff out. And I remember seeing something, Oh, I remember it was Kirsty Ally, who was a big Trump supporter, I remember, and she got mad at me for something, oh, because I said on Bill Maher that I thought a lot of these voters needed to be deprogrammed, that they were getting a lot of this information over and over again, and you know it starts and by the way, I think some people on the left could use a little deprogram voting at times. But she got she tweeted something nasty about me. Anyway, Then I sort of started following her kind of see what she was saying, and she retweeted some you know, very you know, official looking medical seal with some stuff about abortion that I knew was bullshit, and I was like, I can't remember specifically what it was, but I was like, wait, why are they doing that. That's not accurate, that's not true. So then I of course googled the Association of blah blah blah Doctors and I was like, who are these people? And yes, I look at their website. I mean to pro life organization that is promoting anti abortion information. So I think you just cannot, you know, unless they're from reporters that you know and trust, or The New York Times or pod Save America or people like that. You know, I just think you you can't get your information that way. And I don't. I don't get information really from Facebook or from Twitter. I still I'm old fashioned, you know. I don't know what I would do without the New York Times. And people can criticize certain aspects of it. But I also read the Bulwark read. You know, I like what Barry Weiss has done, even though I don't always agree with some of the stuff in there. I want to see what they're saying. And I, for some reason, for a while I was getting the Epoch Times. Is that what it's called.

00:42:16
Speaker 3: I have no idea I think.

00:42:17
Speaker 2: It's a Chinese owned uber conservative media outlet, Okay, And I looked that up and I was like, why am I reading this? Because I like to see what everybody's saying about everything. That's why my husband and I watch Fox News when there's a big news event because we want to see how they're framing the conversation. But in terms, you just have to be you know what did Si Sims say? And educated consumers are best customer. I don't know if you ever went to Sims. It's a discount store, like remember anyway, And I think that's the case. You have to take the time to really not accept anything at face value that you're reading online. It's so critically important.

00:43:00
Speaker 1: My old boss, Dennis McDonough, who's Chief of Staff of the White House, he always used to say, measure twice, cut once, And to me, that's like if I see something and I don't know the person, it's the same thing, Katie. I go to the profile, I Google, I check the website because people are just out there to confuse us. And if you and I, who consume so much, have to do that. If you're listening and you don't consume as much as Katie, and I do.

00:43:26
Speaker 2: You should do it too, But how can you recognize bots? That's one thing I don't really know how to do.

00:43:32
Speaker 1: It's to me, if you look, most spots don't have many followers. Yeah, you know, it's like they may follow a lot of people, but nobody follows them. But that's also I just found that X became so negative and so toxic and me and actually scary.

00:43:51
Speaker 2: When I rear my head up and I make something or something I believe in, Oh my god, the oncoming, I'm.

00:43:56
Speaker 3: Like, woo, no, You've got to dodge it.

00:43:59
Speaker 2: See, And then I get upset and depressed, and I'm like, God, who needs this? Who needs these losers?

00:44:04
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So go back.

00:44:06
Speaker 2: In your basement and put your pajamas back on.

00:44:08
Speaker 1: Everybody you heard it here first, all right, we need to take a quick break and when we come back, Sandy Petty, Welcome back to Hysteria, the podcast for gymnastics fans.

00:44:41
Speaker 3: Katie.

00:44:42
Speaker 1: Let's get into our Sanny Petty, I have something that is keeping me sane this week.

00:44:47
Speaker 3: Are you ready?

00:44:48
Speaker 2: Yes?

00:44:49
Speaker 1: I saw and have on good authority, and by good authority, I mean People Magazine that Celine Dion may be making a comeback. This at the opening ceremonies for the Paris Olympics.

00:45:04
Speaker 3: I could not be more excited.

00:45:06
Speaker 2: Like, have you seen the documentary about her? So?

00:45:08
Speaker 3: I haven't been emotionally stable enough to watch it.

00:45:11
Speaker 1: The news has been too chaotic every time I went to put it on.

00:45:14
Speaker 3: I needed something a little more low stakes.

00:45:16
Speaker 1: I actually watched the Indigo Girls documentary It's Only Life after All this weekend, which was wonderful.

00:45:22
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I'll add up to my list.

00:45:24
Speaker 1: I know that that there are gonna be a lot of peaks and valleys in the Celine Dion documentary.

00:45:28
Speaker 3: So I've waited. But Katie, my.

00:45:30
Speaker 1: Best friend, and I went and saw Selene two weeks before COVID and it was.

00:45:38
Speaker 2: Did she do a lot of this?

00:45:39
Speaker 3: Did everything?

00:45:40
Speaker 4: You?

00:45:40
Speaker 2: Weren't you in Las Vegas?

00:45:42
Speaker 1: No, we were at Barclays in Brooklyn. Oh wow, it was extraordinary.

00:45:47
Speaker 2: Can I one up you on that?

00:45:48
Speaker 3: Of course?

00:45:50
Speaker 2: I did the first American interview of Selene Dion when she came to the Today's show Studio Stop and she I think it was Christmas time. If I recall, I remember exactly what she was wearing. She was wearing like a almost maroon kind of boat neck dress, and she and Peebo Bryson sang the theme song to Beauty and the Beauty and the Beast and it was so beautiful. You should google it. I think I was on YouTube and I marveled it when I rewatched it. Our directors was so good at the time. I don't know if it was Bucky or Joe. We had two different directors when I was there, but they were putting scenes from the movie while they were singing, and I was like wow, and she was, you know, very nervous. I don't think she's spoken a ton of English. Back then she was very young and it was such a treat and to see what she's become is really incredible. So what's the concert? Everything you dreamed it would be in more It.

00:46:52
Speaker 1: Was okay, first a million a million costume changes, but the best was I love a concert when the fans come to play, Like I know, there's Taylor Swift and Beyonce and everything. People came to Selene dion in. The women who were one section over from us had matching sequin bomber jackets, and they had choreography to about fifty percent of the songs and Cara and I are watching it, and we were just like half watching Selene and half watching the women at the other end, because it was I just loves like a religious experience. It was it was like it was it had a revival sense to Yeah. And also I just love watching people, which is kind of also why I'm excited for the Olympics. I love watching people experience joy and excellence like it is. It is contagious, and so to me that is I hope that the rumors are true and that she will be there on Friday, because I will be watching, I will be watching.

00:47:49
Speaker 2: I'm going to be watching too. It's interesting because I hosted the opening ceremonies a few times when I was at MBC. We haven't you done well? I have skydived, will you ever? I haven't slept with George Clooney. There are a lot of things I haven't done. Melissa all right, But anyway, but it's a really fun thing. And you know, you see all the parade of Nations and Bob Costas and I would have this running joke. I'd say, Bob, do you know what what country is coming up next? And you'd say, no, Katie, what country? And i'd say, you bet, Djibooty. I know it's kind of a dad joke, isn't it anyway?

00:48:36
Speaker 3: Dad joke?

00:48:36
Speaker 2: But I think I think Kelly Clarkson and Jimmy Fallon are hosting it. But I could be wrong. Can we google that.

00:48:42
Speaker 3: We'll find out. Well, don't we'll find out.

00:48:44
Speaker 1: But did you see they have had Snoop Dogg commentating on track and field?

00:48:50
Speaker 3: It's really funny?

00:48:51
Speaker 2: Is it funny?

00:48:52
Speaker 3: It is funny? I really I hope that. I feel like the world could use the Olympics right now.

00:48:57
Speaker 2: I totally agree, but I hope it doesn't become too silly. You know. Oh, I don't know. Is Snoop really knowledgeable about track and field events?

00:49:09
Speaker 1: He like enough and I don't know if he's doing the actual Olympics or only did the trials. But it was enjoyable, Okay, I know the French And the other thing is, I don't know if you have seen the French have brought in Louis Vuitton, like the outfits, the uniforms, the trays that the medals are presented on extraordinary. It's going to be sports and fashion and all the things.

00:49:32
Speaker 2: And I think it's going to turn the world into Franco files, don't you think for a little bit? Maybe maybe? I mean, I love Paris, and I'm actually jealous that I'm not covering this Olympics. I think I did eight of them during my tenure, and honestly, I got a little tired of him. But I am. I think this is going to be pretty extraordinary. And obviously, Simone Biles so Celine Dion, the prospect of firs singing is giving you joy?

00:50:00
Speaker 3: What's giving you joy?

00:50:01
Speaker 2: Well, gosh, I have a lot of things that are giving me joy right now. My vegetable garden is giving me joy because it's starting to be yes tomato season. I've got a lot of sun golds, which I love.

00:50:14
Speaker 3: Your hydranges are banging.

00:50:16
Speaker 2: My hydrangas, and my dahlias. I have dahlias the size of my head. So my table out here it looks so beautiful. It's just bursting with color and flowers and beautiful. I mean, it's just I feel so lucky. And I don't know whether it's getting older, but I love flowers. They give me so much pleasure and so much joy. I love just looking at single blossoms, like the beauty and perfections, perfection of a single a single flower.

00:50:48
Speaker 1: It's so funny you say that, because in the summer I will only put flowers in vases that are all the same. Yeah, you know, like I don't want a bouquet. I just want my you know like that.

00:51:01
Speaker 2: I agree, I agree. But anyway, so that's giving me joy. And I'm reading a book speaking of flowers, and I wanted to give this author a shout out. Great she gave it to me at the Aspen Ideas Festival. We have a mutual friend. She lives in Connecticut. It's called in Lieu of Flowers, A Conversation for the Living, and the author is Nancy Cobb. And it's a beautiful book, really talking about death and dying and loss, and it sounds really depressing, but it's actually really beautiful. And I'm a firm believer that we have to normalize conversations about death and dying and be able, as just humanity in general, to be able to have discussions about those things, because I think they make everyone so uncomfortable. And another beautiful book I read, I think about six months ago, is called Kayak Morning, and it's by Roger Rosenblack and I love Roger Rosenblatt. He's a beautiful writer. But you know, sometimes it's nice to read books that aren't like beach reads or even historical books. I get sent a lot of books, and sometimes it's just nice to read a book that's really poetic and just touches your soul in a way. And those two books I think have touched me.

00:52:28
Speaker 3: That's amazing. The end, the end, aren't Katie? Thank you for joining us.

00:52:33
Speaker 2: Oh I'm so sad. This is it, Alyssa. I could talk to you all day about everything.

00:52:39
Speaker 3: Back next week.

00:52:40
Speaker 1: Okay, we're not done, so thank you Katie Kirk, who, surprise, will also be co hosting with me next week, so we'll be back then with an all new Hysteria.

00:52:56
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00:53:10
Speaker 3: Hysteria is a Crooked Media production. Caroline Reston is our senior producer.

00:53:14
Speaker 4: Our executive producer is me Aaron Ryan and Alyssa Master Monico is our co producer. Fiona Pastana is our associate producer. The show is engineered and edited by Jordan Cantor. We get audio support from Kyle Seglund and Charlotte Landis. Our video producers are Rachel Gaieski and Megan Patzel, and thank you to Julia beach Awa Oglate, Adia Hill and David Toles for production support every week