Van Mathias

Hey everybody, welcome back to another week of Unfiltered Waters.
I'm here at a very special place to me with the one and only the actual host you guys were here for, which is Katie Hoff Anderson.
We're here for a day in the life at Indiana.
We uh got to sit down with American record holder Van Matthias, absolute retroint 50 phenom.
And we had a great conversation with him about training and life outside of the pool and balancing a lot of his actual work with his new work, which is swimming.
So stay tuned for a very interesting episode.
Yes.
And guys, please comment your favorite moment down in the comments.
And of course, hit that subscribe button if you haven't already.
But please enjoy our conversation with Van Matthias.
Everybody needs those eight hours to function optimally.
Not just function, function optimally.
And if you are a fan of this podcast, you're either an athlete, an ex-athlete, a parent of an athlete, and you're trying to function optimally.
So Dream Recovery has the suite of tools to help you do that.
Whether it's blue light blocking glasses, whether it's the vertical dream strip, whether it's the Dream Tape Plus, whether it's the pillowcases, the eye mask.
There's so many options.
Whether you just need one or all of those tools, we've got a special code for you.
It's unfiltered30 for 30% off your order.
Go shopping, get some tools to help you live your most optimal life.
Van Matthias, welcome to Unfiltered Waters.
Thank you.
Happy to be here.
Yes.
And special guest host, Lily King, professional yapper.
Here to yap.
I have so many directions that I want to go in this conversation.
First of all, I have to acknowledge we are sitting overlooking the beautiful basketball arena for people listening.
I'm so pumped to be here.
This campus is beautiful.
I've heard so many things.
You are not only swimming here, but you also work here.
I want to hear how you balance that.
It's a lot.
Sometimes I don't.
Sometimes I have to sacrifice some pool time, but um, you know, it's kind of a give and take, especially certain times of the year.
Like the summer now, it's a little bit more relaxed.
Um we have swim camp going, which is kind of busy, but um, you know, I can actually get in the pool some more.
It's it's a lot.
Thankfully, Ray and the staff are very nice and uh they allow me to do these kinds of things and keep swimming.
So um I try and balance it.
Sometimes I do a great job, sometimes I don't.
It's a lot.
Well, she was saying you're a fan favorite, so clearly you're clearly you're balancing it well.
Would you like to comment on the fact that you are the fan favorite?
I don't know.
I don't know if I'm a fan favorite.
I'm I'm trying to just not let that get to me yet.
But I had a kid, I had a kid in my head.
I had a camper come up to me last week and he was like, You know, you have a lot of aura, right?
Oh, that's huge.
And he must have been eight years old, and I was like, That's that's a big compliment.
So I must have some motion or something like that.
Hang on to that.
Yeah, that might be your like prized compliment from an eight-year-old.
Yeah.
Well, you said you're having to balance it, right?
And I've seen interviews where you, I mean, you're essentially revolutionizing the way that people train.
And I think it's really, really cool.
I myself, post baby, want to do something similar.
Talk to us about how you came to that decision and how you were constructing this workout plan essentially on your own.
Yeah, I mean, we it was last summer.
We kind of decided that, you know, we went actually almost a year ago today, went up to the trials up in uh Indianapolis for uh world championships and you know, kind of saw the results.
And John and Ray and the guys were like, man, he's like, you know, if you if you like put your mind to it and actually tried this, you could probably make a comeback and and make a team if you really wanted to.
I thought about it and I was like, yeah, we could do this.
And it was about eight, nine weeks of like really getting in the pool, taking it serious.
I mean, I didn't have any like cuts.
I had to go to a small like spring cut meet and get my qualifying times because I hadn't swam a comp like a competition in two years.
Um and then from there, I mean the ball just kept rolling.
And um, you know, I I can't say it's just been all me.
Like um, my coach John um and obviously Ray have played a big part in it.
And you know, me and John are kind of like going back and forth on what we want to accomplish.
And um he's been huge in helping me get there because yeah, like I can't train twice a day or do doubles or do the same things that the college kids are doing.
So um, you know, trying to manage that, but also be one of the best uh in the country in the world, it's it's tough, but we're still figuring that out.
Um, and yeah, I mean, it's been fun along the way too.
I know I had a conversation with Ray about a year ago when I was kind of I was attempting to transition a little more into the sprint world.
And he was like, you know, I've always really wanted to train someone that does like 10K a week, 6K a week, something crazy like that.
And I knew personally I couldn't trust myself to begin that process or start that process and be so concerned about my results as as someone similar to you that came from such a distance background.
Like, how do you find a way to trust yourself through that extreme change in training?
Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've always kind of had a knack for sprinting.
Like, I mean, you know, no, no leg shade against the distance swimmers or whatever.
It was you, it was you at one point.
So it was me at one point.
And you know, I I still think you know, a lot of people find joy in it and love it.
But um, for me, like I've always wanted to go fast and you know, see how fast we can go.
And um obviously, like that requires different types of training and um, you know, trying to reach top end speed more times in a week.
Um, so yeah, we kind of cut out a lot of the the drills and whatnot um that you might do in club swimming because um, you know, it's really focused on speed now and just trying to hold that speed because it's not really about who can go the fastest, it's about who can slow down the least.
Yep.
And that's what we're figuring out and what we're trying to do in training.
So um, you know, Ray, Ray still kind of is like that, like I'd say like John is maybe like the angel on my shoulder, and Ray is like the devil on my shoulder because he's always he's always like, you know, he's like, I got the brush hookers doing doing this kind of stuff, and I think you'd really like it.
And you know, he's always trying to kind of like lure me back into that, but he's also very supportive of what I'm doing, and um, I think he's excited too because he's he's starting to take some things that we're doing and implement it with those guys.
Do you think the reason it's working is because of your more distance background in high school and early on in college?
Uh, I don't know.
I mean, you know, like I swam just about every event on the meat schedule.
Um, and I think that helped kind of form who I am and my perspective on swimming.
Because, you know, swimming a mile, you're like, oh man, a 50 freestyle, that's nothing.
That's easy.
Um, but as far as like the actual training and the base, you know, I think I'm I might have lost that the two years that I was out of the pool not swimming.
Um so I think it definitely helped form who I am and a lot of the habits and and things that I I have in practice.
But I wouldn't say that, you know, like the 101-100s that you do during Christmas training, I don't think those are, you know, directly impacting my sprint abilities today.
But who knows?
I could be wrong.
I mean, we're still trying to figure that out.
Yeah.
That was a part of a like, I feel like I have to say that for some of the coaches.
Now between you and Cam, like I feel like every age grouper on the planet is like perfect.
I only have to do a thousand a day.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's like it's all on a spectrum too, because you know, you're the best distance swimmers in the world swimming 100k a week.
And then you have Cam who's swimming like, you know, maybe a mile total throughout the week.
And I think it's a spectrum.
I mean, I mean, we fall definitely on the shorter end, but you know, I think he's really pushing the limits of what you can do.
Um, and we're just kind of like, you know, I still want to swim 100 pretty well, and I still think that with that kind of training, I don't know if it's possible, but um, we're we're trying to be on the safe side and like I want to finish 100 and not have to crawl out of the pool and and die afterwards, which I have done like early in the training.
Man, 100 breaststroke, not fun, not fun.
It's really long in the long pool.
It's especially the last 20 meters.
I feel like I'm going backwards.
And like, you know, we have such a good breaststroke group here.
Like, all those guys start to run me down and pass me by, and I'm like, man, if only I had a 75 breaststroke in my arsenal instead of a full hundred, I'd be pretty good.
I feel like especially because you started off with that short course hunter breast.
Like that was that was really your transition into being a breaststroker coming from being more of a fly I am guy.
Yeah.
Um yeah, no, I I love the short course hunter breasts, but you know, long course is a whole different ball game.
And, you know, I think you really start to feel the mistakes and the technique um in the long course pool compared to short course.
You can get away with your pullouts and and start and things like that and short course, but long course it really starts to come out.
Do you think that I mean, I know the answer to this, but I want to hear it from your mouth is just like the perspective that you have working this job as director of ops, managing all that, and then also swimming.
Like, what is your mindset going into a meet compared to what it was when you swam in college?
Yeah, I mean, I think in college, like I think this might be true for a lot of people, like, you know, you're there to swim, you're there to study, um, be a student, but you know, swimming is kind of like your your life and your you know your ultimate passion.
Um, and it was for me, and I kind of realized that like it it can consume you if you if you let it.
And everything starts to become about swimming and and your you know, your performances and and what you're doing in the pool.
So um when I stopped and when I kind of started to become an adult and get a job and and you know, enter the workforce, I was like, man, swimming is easy.
I was like working and being an adult is way harder.
I was like, even today, just running around, you know, getting things done for the meet this week, I'm like, man, my job is hard.
I was like, swimming is like that little carrot on the end of the stick that I get a chase at the end of the day.
So um I think that perspective helps a lot.
And I think, you know, as much as the training has has changed and and helped me go faster, I think that mindset has played a massive role too.
Yeah.
I'm just curious, now that you're swimming at Meets with the team, but you're also the director of ops, are you still like running to get them meals and stuff and like giving them caps and goggles?
Yeah, yeah.
So you're like, guys, I'm I'm racing in 10 minutes.
I can't give you a cap.
I'm like, I'm like kind of playing both roles, especially yeah, in meets like that where I'm competing as well.
Um, but you know, the staff, especially Corey will say this all the time.
And he's like, Van sends out an itinerary for you guys.
Look at the itinerary before you ask questions.
And I'm like, thank you, Corey, thank you.
Because they'll ask me, like, what time's breakfast?
What time do we leave?
You know, like, where are we going?
And it's like, I gave all of you guys this like beforehand, check it, and then you can ask me questions if it still doesn't make sense.
So um, we still deal with it, but yeah, like you know, occasionally I'll have to run an errand or go, like, you know, go get shaving supplies, fill the snack room, things like that.
So, you know, I'm kind of playing both roles at the same time.
Oh my god.
That's crazy.
That is crazy.
That's crazy.
Yeah, I kind of love it though.
It gives you like it gives you something to like keep your mind off, right?
It's nice for me.
It's a distraction.
I'm like, you know, I'm kind of one of those people where I don't think about swimming all the time, but like I can if I just am alone with my thoughts.
So um this gives me an easy outlet to get distracted and like, okay, I gotta go make a store run.
All right, I gotta get the team checked in, checked in the hotel.
So it definitely like distracts me from what I'm doing.
Um, I love it.
I kind of I kind of really like it.
I was gonna ask that.
Are you someone who's pretty meticulous about I mean, operations?
I would think you're pretty meticulous about being organized, details.
How does that translate over to times in training, times before at a meet, things like that?
It's funny you ask that because um I've tried to stay very organized and um formal with you know with my job and operations um and really like plan ahead with training.
I try and like be the opposite.
And I'm like, I'm not so focused on the times and everything like that.
I'm just kind of focused on like being there and being present.
So that's like my chance to like clock out and not think about you know, what do I gotta do here?
I gotta hit this time to 15.
I'm I'm just kind of like, all right, this is my time to swim.
Let's go fast and and just relax.
So um I'm almost like like Superman, like Clark Kent.
Like I got the the glasses on and I'm like super focused and organized.
And then when I'm in the pool, I'm just kind of like chilling.
It's nice.
I remember when you were applying for the job, and Ray almost made you.
I feel like I can't think of another word other than audition for your job.
Yeah.
I remember he was having you try to like create all these spreadsheets and do the budget, and I was like, Oh, yeah, he was I think he was trying to stick it to me too.
He was giving me some crazy things to do and like like wait, give an example.
I mean, like I had I had a full it was almost like I was back in school again.
I had a ton of homework to do, and I was like, I I think he's is he trying to like use these for like the future or like you know, maybe maybe like help me help him out with some things that he has to do on his laundry list.
But um, I mean he he gave me a ton of stuff and he wanted to make sure that I was someone that was right for the job and a good fit.
So um it obviously worked out and I'm you know I'm still learning and trying to be better at my job, um, both jobs really, um, in the office and in the pool.
But um, you know, he he definitely like crossed his T's and dotted his I's when he brought me here.
Um, I think you know, being his athlete as well, he also had that trust.
Um, and he knew that I wasn't gonna uh you know back out or or quit on him because I swam here for five years.
You know, I took a fifth year as well.
And um I think that also kind of instilled some trust in him that I wasn't gonna just like be here for six months and then see, yeah, it's not for me.
So um very loyal to that staff and and this team.
There's an interview of you at the I think it's at NCDLA's your fifth year, and like there's almost it's almost like a foreshadowing if this was a movie where you're like, yeah, like I'm done.
I mean, we'll see.
Like, so at that moment, was there has there always been something in the back of your head like, oh, if there's an opportunity, like I want to make a run at this?
I think so.
The more I think about it, the more I'm like, I tell myself that I wasn't quite finished.
Because at that moment, you know, I just finished school.
I kind of wanted to enjoy the last few months of being together with my friends before, you know, we all spread out across the country and experience real life.
And um, you know, I think I was like in that moment, I told myself I'm done.
You know, I I need to be done, I need to move on.
Um, but yeah, in that interview and looking back, I'm like, maybe I I definitely wasn't done.
There's a glint in your eye where you're like well, yeah.
And you know, I had I had all that newfound success too, and I was like, I was kind of a little greedy and I was like, man, it this feels good.
I kind of want some more.
But um, you know, I I told myself in that moment I was finished and I stuck with that.
And um, you know, I think eventually it ate at me and I was like, I want to get back in the pool.
But yeah, that is kind of funny.
I I've been sent that interview and I was like, man, I definitely set myself up well for the future by saying you did.
Yeah.
Couldn't have written it better.
I know, yeah.
I'm thinking about that interview a little bit, but also thinking about kind of your background before you even got to IU and having, I know you had a lot of success with the junior team as well.
Do you think having that junior team experience was something that really kept that that fuel in your fire to then continue on to having a lot of national team success?
I think so.
Yeah.
I mean, it's funny, it's kind of a full like circle moment too, because my first kind of big international meet was junior pan packs in 2018, right before I got to college.
And now my first national team, first international meet is senior Pan Packs, you know, what eight years later.
So it's cool.
It's a full circle moment.
And um, yeah, I think you know, having that meet and that experience on the junior team, I was like, I think it prepared me pretty well for college.
Um because coming from a smaller team, um, you know, you kind of don't know what to expect in a whole new training environment.
And having those meets and those big competitions, I was like, okay, I'm I'm ready to face, you know, college dual meets and Big 10s and NCAAs.
But um yeah, uh yeah, I think you know, Pan Packs eight years ago, Pan Packs now, I'm like looking back, and that definitely set me up for the future.
Are you ready to have your name on that cap?
Have you thought about that?
Yeah, a big thing, a big thing on the team right now is like everybody we have a like a large international contingent.
Yeah.
So we got a lot of people with different caps and like different national team caps, and um, I want to get mine in the mix in there because everyone starts to wear each other's caps, and um, it's like a big carousel with with the caps, and I want to get mine in there.
I want some people to wear my cap during practice, including me.
I might steal one of your caps.
Yeah, this morning.
I did wear Anna's this morning.
It'll be my clinic cap.
Yeah, you get it cute, you gotta get like the like a pink cap or something.
Well, yeah, I guess you can't do that with the USA cap, but you know you could you could do a custom one.
USA USA cap's pretty cute.
Yeah, I've got some I've got some director of op skills.
I could probably make something happen in the future.
Yeah.
Did your decision to go to IU it it's almost crazy to look back, right?
Like there's such a dynasty here in breaststroke.
I just feel like IU is just known for having insane breaststrokers, but you didn't come in as a breaststroker.
Yeah.
So what initially drew you to wanting to commit here?
Yeah, I mean, coming out of high school from Oregon, you know, there's no real big swim schools in the Pacific Northwest, or at least not anymore.
Um, there might have been when my parents were in college in Oregon, but uh I was definitely drawn to like all the top schools.
I took trips, but uh when I came here, you know, it was it was Ray and the staff and really the team culture, like the people here um that kind of drew me in and brought me in.
Um, you know, I didn't quite feel that anywhere else.
I felt really connected to the team and I felt like I belonged.
Um, and that's at the end of the day, what I find to be the most important thing in my decision was, you know, you're gonna spend so much time with your teammates in and out of the water.
It's like I really want those people to be the people for me.
Um and you know, aside from the insane breaststroke legacy and success that that I use had, like, you know, I thought that I was gonna get the most uh, you know, personalized coaching and um you know, a big focus here and with Ray is that you know he's really focused on international success and and um long course success too.
So uh at that time I was like, I really want to be making national teams, junior teams, all those kinds of things, and this was the place to be for sure.
Yeah, makes sense.
Do you because I feel like I admire your resilience so much.
Like you talk about in 2018 being junior pan packs, and then you know, it it didn't manifest itself really until now.
So how did you how did you manage that?
Yeah, I mean, it's it's been a definitely like a nonlinear path and super crazy because you know, getting here, I had a great freshman year.
I dropped a lot of time, and then um obviously like NCAA's was canceled my sophomore year and COVID happened, and there was a lot of wrenches thrown into the mix and um you know just kind of sticking with it, like I knew that if I was here and I was giving my all and I was trusting my coaches and myself that I would eventually see those results.
Um, you know, I think it takes a lot of dark days and grinding to really appreciate um, you know, the bright spots.
So a lot of time spent at that CBAC and and here and on campus, and um you know, I think just never giving up to like I knew I wasn't gonna let myself not make something of of my career, and I was like, I'm too stubborn to like just quit.
So, like you mentioned, I mean that interview where I was like, maybe maybe see me again.
I was like, I I can't give up this sport, I love it too much.
Yeah, that's really cool.
You guys, you could be ruining 30% of your life without even knowing it.
I know that sounds dramatic, but we spend about 30% of our time sleeping on our mattress and in bed.
And so I feel like for my husband and I, it is a non-negotiable to not have the highest quality mattress.
Helix has cooling upgrades that make sure that all of us, particularly pregnant people like me, can sleep at a comfortable temperature.
It's summer, nights are hot, and so you want to make sure that you're comfortable because I know the number one thing for me is if I'm hot, I am not sleeping, and I'm not sleeping a lot.
The happy with Helix guarantee allows you to purchase the mattress, try it out, see what you think.
You have 120 days.
I promise you won't need to, but rest assured, if you're not happy with your Helix mattress, you can exchange it for a different model.
So don't wait any longer to have the best night's sleep ever.
Go to helix sleep.com slash unfiltered waters for 20% off site wide.
I want to just go back to this summer for a little bit.
Like you talk you've been very open about fifty seven, which I think is incredible that you that you put that out there.
Like that's taking a page from your book.
Um just putting the times out.
I don't understand why verbalizing your goals.
Is it bad?
Because it's scary.
I got scared.
But yeah, I think it I think it's incredible that you've put it out there.
You obviously broke the American record and the 50 breasts right off at the 100 breasts.
So how do you how do you approach a meet like Pampax when like you said, like it's exciting, it's scary, it's all the above.
Or do you not feel any of the scary feelings at all?
Um I definitely used to.
I feel like now I'm I'm like, it kind of ties back into working.
Like I think when I get to meets, I'm like, man, my job and everything outside of the pool is so hard.
I was like, this is the easy part.
Yeah.
So I'm really not stressed about how I do or how I perform.
I obviously have goals, you know, and I think they've kind of become public now, but um, you know, it's it's really just a a release, and like I don't, I feel like I don't get nervous.
I mean, I had uh International Water Safety Day with USA swimming, and I had to go talk in front of a bunch of middle schoolers, and I was like shaking.
Yeah, I was so nervous.
And I was like, how come I I don't feel this way on the pool deck on like you know some of the biggest stages?
And I was like, you know, because swimming is easy, swimming is the fun part.
I was like talking in front of a bunch of middle schoolers, that's hard.
Yeah, but they say you have aura, so you shouldn't be that scared.
That's true.
That's true, but you gotta maintain the aura, right?
You can't lose it.
You do, you can't lose it.
There's a lot of people that have lost aura.
Um so yeah, I mean, I I don't know.
I I don't really get nervous for meets anymore.
I I don't really place expectations.
Um, I get really excited to race.
I love racing, especially at you know, great competitions and and great venues, but you know, I I I'm never stressed out on how I'm gonna perform.
And I think, you know, a big big takeaway from Norway was like, you know, I'm out of the country, I'm in somewhere I've never been before with all my good friends.
I was like, I'm just gonna have fun and race.
And you know, the results spoke for themselves.
Like if you don't take it too seriously, or if you're um not worried about how you do, then I think you know, swimming loose, swimming fun, swimming like fast, it's all tied together for sure.
Were you like that?
Is this a newfound way of being?
Like, were you like that in college too?
I think so.
I I mean I don't know.
I think in college, like um, you know, I was obviously a great swimmer, but I wasn't the best.
And I think like the competition and and the racing kind of got to me a little bit.
And now I'm just like, I'm I'm playing with house money, like I have nothing to lose.
So I'm like, you know, that confidence in in myself and just like at the end of the day, you know, if I don't have this, I've got my job, I've got girlfriend, I've got, you know, plenty of friends around me.
So I'm like, this is just like my you know, my side hustle.
This is my my gig that I do for fun.
Um I I I'm not worried about losing or anything like that.
It's like like Ray always says, he's like, he's like, you've been given an extra life.
He's like, you're playing on, he's like, you're you're it's just on borrowed time, so just enjoy it.
So um that's kind of my mindset.
Like I have nothing to lose, really.
I'll circle back with you after trials.
Yeah.
We'll see if you still feel the same went to like Olympic trials.
Oh, yeah.
Well, yeah, I I didn't go to the last one.
I I know that like 20,000 people up in the stands is intimidating and a little overwhelming.
So yeah, check back in with me.
In my experience, it was less the people in the stands were the exciting part.
It was the what the race meant.
That was that was what was challenging.
But true.
I'm really glad you you have that perspective now because it is once you start to really see that success and get that target on your back, it does become a lot more challenging to continue having that mindset.
Yeah, but you've been diving in and I mean going best time every time you hit the water, and that's one of the most dangerous things a swimmer can be.
Well, yeah, it's like I'm you know, I'm also so thankful for work because it's like at the end of the day, win or lose, it's like I gotta go clock in and I gotta get stuff done.
So, you know, the world keeps on spinning and um, you know, I I just keep moving forward, really keep pushing.
Yeah, do you feel like you have any type of target forming on your back right now?
Uh probably, not that I like know of.
I mean, I'm sure there's people probably gunning for me and you know, want to chase me.
And um, but you know, I think if you keep your your your circle kind of closed-minded and you're just kind of focused at the tasks at hand, um, hopefully that kind of outside pressure and and thinking kind of dissolves.
Um like Lily said, like I I you know, I haven't quite experienced like the pinnacle of of of sport in situations like that or like the Olympics or Olympic trials like that.
So um we'll see when we get there, but one foot forward, like I I'm just focused on me, really.
Yeah.
Um unfortunately, I don't really have much time in my day to worry about what other people are doing, um, except those that are on the college team and the rest of the staff.
Like I'm focused on them, but um, anybody else, like, sorry.
Do you think if you make the Olympic team in 2028, you're gonna have to go get shaving cream for everybody?
Do you think they're gonna make you do both jobs?
Don't make that a rule that you as part of your process.
I'm a I'm a little scared.
Don't put those ideas in Greg and the national team's head because they you know, I'll be on a trip like that and they'll be like, hey, you know, let's I want to get your advice.
Like your director of op skills.
Like, what do you think about this?
And I'll be like, this is my other job right now.
I'm they're gonna be like, we heard it keeps you really calm.
So I'm clocked out, I'm clocked out.
I'm sorry.
Oh my god.
I mean, it's kind of your superpower though.
Yeah, yeah.
I've I've I think I've always been great at com compartmentalizing too, like just dropping it at the end of the day and and moving on, um, like good or bad.
Yeah.
And I try to like another big thing too is like I'm trying to stay off social media.
Um good call.
Just because like I find it's very distracting when I'm at my desk.
Like I want to scroll or do things like that.
So I try and get rid of it.
You know, I'll bring it out on the weekends when I'm can relax a little bit, but um, I think that's also helped too, is just like no social media, kind of disconnect from the rest of the world a little bit.
That's huge.
Yeah.
I want to go back to the training for some of the swim nerds who watch and listen.
Yeah.
I heard or saw that you in the two years when you were out, you were doing like a ton of lifting, like you got super big.
So what types of sorry, not super big, but like pretty good.
I was I was definitely bigger than I.
Like, what are you right now?
I think I'm like 215.
Dang.
Okay, so 20 pounds heavier.
Okay, can I interrupt real?
Yeah.
Van came back to start his job, and we were like, Van is a man now.
Like you graduate, you were still kind of, I don't want to say you were a boy because you were 23, but you came back and we were like, what happened to Van?
Like, who is this guy?
So um, good friends of mine have a garage gym, and we were like, let's just like lift every day, like get in shape, um, you know, have fun, just blast music in the in the gym and and enjoy it.
And um, you know, my mom and my uncle kind of helped program like a almost like a bodybuilding split.
Um, because they used to compete back in the day, and um they were like, let's just get big, let's just lift.
Um, because I didn't I never really did a lot of that in high school.
Um, obviously, like did more when I got to college, but I was like, let's just lift and get strong.
And so for a year straight, I lifted probably four to five times a week and like zero cardio and just strictly lifted.
That's the life.
I might have done a couple masters practices.
I remember the masters were like, Oh, you should come out and swim.
And I swam a couple times.
I was like, I was like, nah, I'm I'm way too out of shape.
I mean, I was in gym shape, but I was not in swimming shape.
Um, so yeah, that's kind of how I got a lot stronger and a lot bigger.
Because yeah, when I came back, I thought it was like 235.
I've swimmed down since then because it wasn't all good weight.
It wasn't all muscle.
Yeah, no, it wasn't all good weight.
Um, but yeah, it was kind of a crazy transformation.
It was fun too.
It was a it was a different um kind of like mental stimulus too from swimming.
Um, because you're not used to really like fully exerting yourself for like one or two reps and swimming, like it's kind of like maintaining like a rhythm or you know, a stroke rate.
And um, lifting is just like brute strength, just push and lift as hard as you can.
So that was fun.
That was a lot of fun, and I miss it kind of a little bit.
Well, do you have a heavier emphasis on the land now?
I'm assuming compared to college.
Like how much are you in the gym?
Um, currently we've got a split that's like two lifts a week.
Oh, okay.
So it's only down to two lifts, and and we do dry lens twice a week as well.
Um, you know, kind of at this point, like it's not so much about building strength, it's must mostly maintaining strength and and becoming more explosive.
Um, because we've kind of developed the strength over the past couple years, and now it's just like, how do we make it functional for the pool?
Because I might have been a lot stronger maybe eight months ago, but like I wasn't moving as well in the water because muscle doesn't float as well.
Um, like some of the biggest guys in the world can't swim.
Yep.
Um, so it's kind of finding that balance and in that in-between.
But um, yeah, it's it's definitely focused, like gym focused, but um, you know, we still want to be fast in the pool so we're not completely destroying ourselves like week to week.
Um, there's periods of of the year where we're like we're lifting really heavy, and that definitely takes a hit, like the swimming takes a hit.
But um, as far as you know, the lifts are concerned themselves, it's a lot of Olympic lifts, a lot of things that are conducive to to swimming.
So um it's definitely an emphasis, but it's not like you know, five lifts a week and and trying to feel strong all the time.
It's it's really like how do we stay fast in the pool, like year round, essentially.
That makes sense.
Yeah.
How much have you and Cam talked?
Not much, um, if at all.
But John and um and a couple of the coaches have had talks with his coach and kind of like you know, gone back and forth and gotten some ideas as to what Cam was doing and and his training process.
So um there's kind of been like some like you know talks, I would say, but um he does follow me on Instagram now, which is kind of cool.
That's nice.
Um I noticed, but you know, he's very in tune with the swimming world and everything like that, which is awesome.
Um, me not so much, maybe hopefully one day.
But um, you know, he's definitely a role model and and someone I look up to because I mean breaking a world record at at 30 is you know, 32 is like insane.
Um, and it just proves that it's possible for guys like me that are making comebacks later in their career.
Yeah.
I think it's really cool between you and Cam and some others, I'll throw in there.
But with the addition now of the 50s and kind of your training style and Cam's training style, seeing the change and the longevity of a lot of careers, I'm sure I shouldn't say I'm sure my career would have lasted a little bit longer, but maybe if the 50s had been introduced to the Olympics, I could have had a little more of a transition in that I I didn't want to, but um, it's an option now, and I think that's really cool.
And I think, you know, do you do you feel like you're kind of part of that?
I don't want to say the words, but part of that revolution into yeah, I mean into that new transition.
The like the initial goal, like when this whole started was like, all right, 50 breaststroke.
That's what we're going for.
There's like a big, you know, kind of hole in in USA swimming for for breaststroke, especially sprint breaststroke.
So me and John were like, all right, 50 breaststroke, let's go for it.
Like I was only swimming the 100 to like get the 50 cut that summer.
Um, but now with you know the newfound success in the 100, it's like, well, shoot, I kind of maybe have to swim the 100 as well.
And you know, we're opening up to other events like 50 free and and 50 fly.
Um, but yeah, I I I mean, I guess I'm definitely a part of it.
You know, the training is unorthodox compared to what the college team and what other programs might be doing.
So um I guess I'd consider myself a part of it.
Yeah.
Do you do you remember the day last year when they announced that the 50s were gonna be official?
And how how did you react to that?
Um I was like, I I definitely I you know, I wasn't like jumping for joy because I was like, you know, I'm still kind of out of shape.
I like that I was like, I gotta get there first.
But um, no, it was really exciting.
And you know, I still think there it's a little unclear on how we can get there because I know, you know, when you add four or I guess three new events, um, you know, there's some roster questions and and who makes the team and how do you qualify?
But um, I think it's really exciting.
I think it, you know, it not just gives me hope, but a lot of other people, like you said, that are um maybe later in their careers that are like, hey, I could probably get do at least a 50 um pretty well.
So yeah, it's exciting.
I'm hyped.
I, you know, I'm not quite sure what the next couple years look like leading into the Olympics and qualifying, but um I'm definitely going for that 50 breaststroke.
That's awesome.
I'm curious to see how many of our maybe retired Olympians are gonna be curious to see.
Are gonna try to swim at trials.
How many?
I bet there's several.
I bet there's a lot.
Well, yeah, I mean, it'd be kind of cool.
It's like a reunion, but we're all swimming again.
Is that on your uh not at the moment?
I said I was really excited to never swim Olympic trials ever again.
But the cool thing about the 50s, well, kind of kind of cool, kind of not cool, is that you're qualifying from the World Cup.
Right.
So it's you're gonna be swimming at trials already having qualified for the Olympic team, potentially, which is really, really cool.
So going to do you have you thought about like being able to swim at trials kind of potentially, maybe with no pressure?
Yeah, like I have I have no idea what that looks like, but I think if that's the case, then like then people are in trouble because that's a very, very like advantageous position to be in, especially for me, because I'm already like I got nothing to lose.
Like if I'm coming into a meet like completely relaxed and like all right, I made it, then it's scary.
A hundred breaststrokes gonna be real scary.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I think it'll be fun, and you know, like I said, like I don't know how that's gonna all look with with the World Cups and whatnot, but if that's the case, man, that's that would be awesome.
Really awesome.
Yeah.
I want to switch gears for a second.
Who are you away from the pool, away from IU?
What do you like to do?
Where do you take your girlfriend on dates?
Yeah, yeah.
We um that's that's another thing is like uh trying to find time for myself outside the pool and outside of the office.
Um, it's something I'm definitely still learning because um I'm trying to be there for the team at all times and you know on weekends and things like that.
So um I definitely try and get out.
We like to go um to live, I like I love live music.
I'm a big music guy, um, big film guy as well.
So I'm on the letterbox, log in movies.
Um I don't know, like I'm I'm trying to be more adventurous.
Like my girlfriend loves doing all kinds of different things, and she's also kind of a planner.
So like I'll get out of the office and she's like, all right, we're gonna go do this and this.
And I'm like, great.
I was like, whatever you want to do, let's do it.
Um so yeah, I mean, I'm still figuring that out.
Like, you know, obviously adding in work and adding the swimming piece back in.
Um, I have less time for myself, but um, I think that that year, two years I took away from the pool just kind of developed who I am and and what I want to do um with myself and and what I think, you know, personally like I I like.
So um I kind of like it all.
Big sports guy.
I mean, IU football having all the success it did last year was awesome.
Um, you know, hopefully we can repeat it again.
But yeah, I'm I'm kind of like a jack of all trades.
I like I like doing a lot of different things.
I think Bloomington's a really great place for that because it's a it's a really great place to be a college athlete, a professional athlete, because we have a lot of things to do here, but we also don't.
Like it's it's like there's a lot of like cool little things you can do, but not so much that it's gonna distract you and like you're gonna you're gonna end up taking away from what's really important, which is your ultimately your athletic success.
So um I think we probably have that in common.
Like, we're like, oh yeah, there's all this stuff to do in Bloomington.
I'm gonna go home and go to bed.
Yeah.
Yeah, there's definitely been times where I'm like, I just want to sleep, just let me sleep this weekend.
Um, but yeah, you're right.
I mean, the farmers markets, I mean, like with all the sports success we have, there's like some sort of sporting event that going on that weekend, you know, you're just a hop skipping away up from Indianapolis, which is great.
So yeah, plenty to do it in Bloomington, and like especially when you want to do something.
When you don't, it's nice to just relax, especially in the summer.
It's quiet here, student body's gone.
It's it's a like a quiet little college town.
So yeah, lots to do.
What live music do you like?
I like a lot of music.
Uh, we recently saw uh Built the Spill up in Indianapolis, kind of like an alternative indie group.
Um, recently saw who else did we see?
Uh Lower Town, which is also an indie group.
Um this past summer I saw Billy Idol in concert, which was awesome.
I mean, I thought that dude was ancient, but he's still out on tour.
It's worrying anymore.
Yeah, it was like to be able to say that I saw Billy Idol in concert in 2026 is wild.
So um, yeah, I I I I like a lot of music.
If people people that know me, they're like, you know, and they're listening to what I play in the car and aux, especially when I'm driving the swimmers around, they're like, what are you what are we listening to?
I'm like, don't worry about it.
Like it's the driver's call.
I was like, yeah, like just let me hit shuffle a couple times and I'll get you something better.
Yeah.
If there's a concert that comes to town or to end usually to indie here, are you like drop everything and go to that show?
Or is there like maybe maybe a oh I'll see him next time kind of process?
It it depends.
Like, like with that Billy Idol show, I was like, this dude, you know, this is it.
I was like, this is probably I was like, who knows the next time he's gonna be on tour?
Um, so it depends artist to artist, but like there's definitely a couple that I would be like, yeah, I gotta go see.
Um, but it always like now with work and swimming, it's gotta fall on the right weekend too.
Yeah.
Because there's been times where like I want to go something and I'm committed to something, and then I forget, like, ah, I gotta be at a swimmate this week.
So um there's times where I can pull off both, but um, you know, swimming usually takes the priority, unfortunately.
Yeah, it's a balance for sure.
Yeah.
If you had one thing that you're looking forward to most this summer, whether it's your name on your cat, what whatever that might be, can you pinpoint it?
Um I think honestly, it's gonna be when camps are done, when next when next season is planned.
Ray's covering his face over there, by the way.
And are you just saying that because he's in the room?
And there's there's two weeks where there's just like not much to do.
I mean, there's always something to do, yeah, but where it just feels like there's not much to do.
That's what I'm looking forward to the most.
Okay.
Um, because with this meet being so late in the summer, I'm not gonna really get a break.
Um because I think the day after I get back, freshmen are already getting to campus, so it's gonna be like getting right back to it.
So those two weeks where there's just nothing really going on, I'm really looking forward to that.
I think we all are, honestly.
They're the only answer I've ever gotten.
Yeah, they stay busy.
Yeah.
All right, we're gonna roll on to our last three questions.
We asked all our guests.
So, first question is what is a moment or memory inside the sport of swimming that's brought you the most joy?
Most joy.
That's a great question.
Um I'm honestly gonna say probably my fifth year finishing at NCAAs, being on relays with my teammates through the meet.
I mean, I'm a relay guy.
I've always been a relay guy.
I love swimming for my team and my teammates more than I love swimming for myself.
So that last kind of week uh of my college career and and you know, really putting out for the guys on the team and and the staff and everything, that was like probably one of my proudest moments.
Um and like it's so fun, especially when you got four guys coming together all with the same goal.
Like um, I'll cherish that for a long, long time.
Special.
Yeah.
Do you have a moment or memory outside of the sport of swimming that has brought you the most joy?
That's a tough question, too.
Um I'd have to say I gotta think about that.
Well, that's the whole actually, there's kind of a point to this.
Like, everyone's like, oh my, I'm like, yeah, but you need to because there's more delicate coming.
I was gonna say it's it's good to reflect.
Like, yeah, and you know, like the longer I am on this earth, the more moments I can point to.
But um, you know, I'd I'd say like a big thing is, you know, I've kind of been away from um my family and a lot of people that I have back home, just you know, being all the way out in the Midwest and swimming and working.
So I'd say, you know, cherishing like whenever you you finish a college season and you go back home for a couple weeks, that break, you know, I think I cherish a lot of those times where I just get to like relax and and be with my family and see all those people because um, you know, that's a luxury.
And I've kind of realized that like, you know, when you when you're at this in this sport and and you know, your professional career, you gotta make sacrifices.
And unfortunately, that's kind of the ones one of the ones I've made is like you know, not being with family as much.
So um I would say definitely like seeing seeing my family, my mom, my dad, my brothers, all those people, like um, those are the times I cherish the most, I think.
Yeah.
Like I I don't take that for granted, you know.
I've got obviously a great family here in Bloomington with the staff and and the team, but um, you know, your blood family is a little different.
They know they know you pretty well, especially my mom.
Like, you know, um, she always says, like, I messed up her hips because I was a C-section baby.
And she's like, I'll never get my hips back.
She's like, but I got you.
And I was like, You're like worth it.
Yeah, worth it.
I was like, aren't you glad?
I was like, you can't run anymore, but you got me.
Um but yeah, family for sure.
It just, you know, I can't pinpoint a moment, but um, any time I get to spend with them is great.
Yeah.
All right, last question.
What is a word that motivates you, inspires you, or just encompasses who you want to be on the daily?
I'm gonna say it might not be the the answer that I want to say, but it came right to my mind.
Okay.
I'm gonna say steez.
Okay, tell me more.
So steez is like, I don't know, it's almost like swag or like, you know, kind of like maybe aura.
Okay.
Um spell it?
S-T-E-E-Z-E.
Steez.
Did you just make this word out?
No, it's like it's I feel like it's kind of familiar and common in like in skating and things like that.
Okay, okay.
You'd be like, oh, that was Steezy.
Or not.
Or something like snowboarding.
Um but you know, like really cool.
Oh, that's good.
Wow, that's great.
I love that word.
That definition is way better than what I would have said.
We'll put it up on the screen.
Here's the definition.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I mean, I think that applies to to swimming and and to work and you know, doing all the hard things but without showing it.
Um because you know, life is hard, swimming, swimming's easy.
Um, you know, as long as you can like do it and and look good doing it, like it's it's great.
It's just stee.
Like it's just stees.
It's steez.
Yeah, it's like you can use in a sentence so I can start using it correctly.
I don't think you should do that.
No.
That's not it.
I would say uh I don't know.
You just be like, man, that that had a lot of stees.
Okay.
Or like steezy, almost like an adjective.
You know, like, oh, that was steezy.
I got it.
We can do it.
Yeah.
Can we pull it off?
We don't need to, but we know how to.
Yeah, I feel like bringing up some new lingo, like the kids are always like coming up with new words and things like that.
This is the millennial version of it.
Trying to be like Renaissance man and bring back some terms from the past.
I like it.
Even the college kids, they keep you young.
Oh, they they're always telling me things I've never even heard of.
Yeah, oh yeah.
They're like, you're not aware, like, come on, old man, get with the times.
And I'm like, I'm not.
You got chopped yet?
Been chopped.
Yeah, chops.
That's tough.
Uh, unk they love unknown.
And then you combine those two and you get called chunk, like chopped unk.
I've gotten called chunk a couple times, but not because of that.
Stop it.
Yeah, so I've I'm starting to hear it all, you know, being around college kids all day.
Yeah.
Um, I mean, Anna Popowski was on my brain rot episode on Unfiltered Water.
So she is like she gets it.
Queen.
Yeah, they're they're in tune with it too, especially the ones that are online all the time.
Yep.
Oh man.
They're kind of like my like my Google.
Like they they bring like the terms to me, and that's how I find out about them.
Yeah.
Keeps you young.
That's right.
Awesome.
Well, thank you, Van.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
It's been great.
Yeah, good luck this summer.
Appreciate it.
Thank you.