LIVE from ‘Women Tell All,’ PLUS: Fantasy Suites

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Speaker 1: What is a Bachelor Happy Hour Listeners. I have to say I have never been more excited for this because this is the first time we are live in over two years at the Woman till All and tonight we will be talking to all of your favorites from Clayton season and boy, I have to take a breath because we have so much to cover. It was a wild Woman till All, and I can now wait to get into it with some of our favorite people of the night. I'm so excited we have you, Sarah, and you are obviously one of, well not even one of the only girl that I helped host a date for this year. I'm so excited to have you back. I mean, tonight was wild. It was I'm sure, so much to take in. So how are you doing after everything now that you've had some time to breathe? Yeah, I mean it's very I don't know how to describe it it than just weird, you know, you It's one thing to live it five months ago, and then at least for me, it's like I went back into my life. I've gone from it, made peace with things, so to have to come here and revisit tough situations and you know, put myself back and my old Jews to be able to speak about it was hard, emotionally exhausting, but I think it was necessary for me to be able to provide a little more truth to a lot of situations and provide a lot of context that people might not have seen on the show in regards to my journey. So yeah, I made it a challenge to come in with no expectations of anyone else but myself. As you can tell from knowing me and seeing me on the season, I'm a lot more self spoken and pretty conflict adverse and have trouble kind of standing up for myself and speaking up when when false narratives are getting thrown around, and I think I did a poor job of doing that on the show, So I wanted to take this opportunity to push myself to do that. So yeah, so I want to ask you because obviously there was so much that was said tonight, but yeah, I mean there was so much being said between like your truth and what the other women were saying, So hearing some of the words back of like what they had to say to you, for instance, like Hunter and Genevieve. You know, you had your response at that point, But is there anything more you wish you could have said to them in that moment? I mean, what I want to say and what I was trying to say is that the only people I ever shared directly any details with or my two closest friends, which were Rachel and Teddy. So other people saying that they've heard this or that is through the grape vine because I only ever shared intimate details with my closest friends. Certainly wasn't going around the house sharing these things in regards to just oh, how did your date go? What happened here and there? Like, Yeah, we all shared that it was pretty generic stuff and nothing that I would take offence to if anyone shared with me, because I did. Yeah, So I want to ask you this, and I have to take myself back to like my time when I was on the Bachelor on ari season, and so for my scenario, I was the very first girl to get the one on one date. You know, obviously came back, there's a house full of women asking me what happened, what I did, everything. And then the next day and I was very forthcoming, you know, I explained what went on, and then the next day another woman went on the date and when we confronted her of like what'd you do? You know, how did it go? Anything like that, she gave us nothing, and I remember at that point the group of women were very upset there, like why are you being so secretive? You're not telling us anything? Now, you know? Fast forward two years later, Yeah, the women feel like you're more forthcoming. Do you feel like there's like a line you could have towed in between those two scenarios to like try to appease more people and not offend anyone or make them feel uncomfortable? Yeah, I mean totally, and I think it. I found myself in a situation of like damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing. It's exactly like you said, it's like if you you know, especially for someone like me who's a little more soulf spoken, it's like, you know, constantly people being like share, share, Share, open up. So then it's like you open up and you share just the facts, and then you get scolded for sharing too much, so then you digress and you don't speak at all, and then it's like why are you being standoffish? Why are you speaking? And then it's like, oh, well, then what if I just talk about all my insecurities and all the negative things going on, And then it's like, oh, shut up, you don't have any right to feel that way. You can't feel that way, Like don't you see your connection? All that kind of stuff. So it's like I try to run the gamut of all different styles of unication with my friends, and it just felt like at a certain point the only thing that was going to appease them is if I went home, because it was, like I mentioned tonight, it's like when I was accused of sharing too much, I immediately just stopped speaking and then it was like, why aren't you speaking to anyone? So it was just like they continuously had an issue, and of course when I brought it up and said, you know, to accountability for it, an apologized to word and said, okay, we're not sharing anything moving forward, it's kind of like what else do you want for me? Like immediately when you shared with me that this was an issue, I took accountability, apologized and committed to not doing it anymore. And then it was like, oh, that's not good enough. Unless you go home, we're still going to make this a problem. And that's what it felt like, and what was really the most hurtful is that, truthfully, I wasn't doing anything different than anyone else was. I know very intimate details about many of the other girls, dates, conversations, etc. But I didn't use it as a weapon against them. I didn't take offense to it because I knew how to compartmentalize my relationship from theirs. And you know, it's like I could have come out of the gate saying that they said this and that and that made me feel insecure, but I didn't, and I still choose not to because I don't believe in fighting fire with fire. But you know, all I'll say is anything I said was reciprocated to me, and more so, again, in my eyes, anything I was sharing wasn't shouldn't have been like that significant because the things that were being shared by other people were even much more so. Well, sare I do? I could go on. I mean, there was so much that we talked about tonight, and so much that you and I personally did not talk about. We will get to that point at some point, but I hope that after everything you can just like go home, relax, have a glass of wine, take care of yourself. But thank you for opening up and being here with that's once again tonight. I appreciate it. Thank you for having to take care of you. Yes, and Teddy, Hi, I first have to ask how are you after this crazy night? It was a crazy night. I'm so happy to find me. It was a crazy night. I think. I think girls that usually were quiet thought that like, this is where time to go, and they did, like I love that for them. Okay, I'm so good, Like we always say it every year after all of the towels. It's like the men or the women's time, Like the women who were so vocal in the house on the show, yeah, I felt like sat back. And then the women who were so quiet usually I'm like, well did your voice come from? Point? It was wild? Um, I want to get into you. And I actually had a question for you like the night Clayton sent you home, because I don't think any of us viewers were expecting it, and it kind of seemed like such an abrupt goodbye, right yes, like very unexpected obviously for you. I can't even imagine, like I mean, I know, I mean in your state of like what do I do? What do I say? So looking back. Now, do you wish you would have asked him anything or had more of a deep conversation with me about like the goodbye. Yeah, I think in that moment, I was shocked, like I thought he was for sure meeting my family that next week, So I didn't ask anything, right, So I regretted that for a while of just not getting that closure that I needed. I did on my own find it myself, and I think honestly watching the show and seeing his other relationships was closure in itself. But I do wish that I would have taken more time for myself and ask things that were good for me. I think I just felt bad putting him on the spot. But I need to start thinking more of like what I deserved and like I deserved to ask those questions and maybe make him feeluncomfortable. Yeah, well, listen, I get it because I was broken up with very abruptly. I have no idea was coming, and in that moment I kind of like shut down and tried to protect myself. You know, years later now in my side, I'm like, I wish I would have asked that, I would have said this, or said whatever it might be. One thing that you had mentioned though, is like he made it seemed like you were going to be going to hometown. Obviously that was not the case. So like, where do you think that shift was in him? Of Like, yeah, yeah, I think I think part of it was he put us on the back burner. I think he felt so strongly about us that he kind of wanted to get to know the other girls more. So I one on one came so late, and I think at that point I was pulling away because I just I didn't understand why he was being so verbally validating, but his actions were not matching that by giving the one on one and like the girls I got them before me were so deserving of them, but I just felt like it wasn't matching up with what he was telling me. So I think it just honestly just became too late for us. I think during my one on one, the other girls were telling him that they're falling in love with him, so we just were not on an equal playing field. Okay, so much has happened, obviously, so much more is to come. I'm sure you're still healing from the breakup and everything that was still led on tonight. But there's there's this thing called Paradise that happens in a few months on the Pieces of Mexico. I mean, could we expect to see you there? I mean, after seeing your love story, I feel like I have to go listen from somebody who never thought that they would go poo pooed it first. So yeah, I would say, oh my god, oh yeah, you were watching you like perfect relationship, so thank you. Well it wasn't perfect on the beach, but now it is. Yeah, I've seen your social media. So is there anyone that might catch your eye on that beach? Um, I will say I didn't see Michelle season, so I'm a little bit behind on that. I think there were so many amazing men now on her season. Um, I think Andrew Spencer, okrank you so he'll be on The Bachelor live on stage. See how we like it for you? Yeah, let me know. Yeah, I want to ask you though you dropped a bomb shelter, Well you didn't Jessie did about Clinton's brother DM me and you, Yeah, do you have any plans to responds? Just no door, no one. Chord was enough for me, I think. But it was a nice mess, like, it wasn't aggressive, get anything. It was a harmless message. But you don't really text your your brother's ex girl. Oh I get it. Yeah, if my exes brothers messaged me, excuse me, you have the wrong numbers. Well, has been such a pleasure. Thank you. We can't wait to see and get to know more of you. I'm okay, Serene, I have to start this off because I'm so excited to have you on. I don't know if you listen to Bachelor Happy ever, but my co host Serena and I always talk about you. You have like topped the charts for her fashion takeover every week. Have you heard about this. I've heard a little and every time I'm like, oh, my goodness to be okay, well okay, now you are so put together all the time between like the clothes and the accessories and the makeup. Everything, it's perfect. It's follow. So I have to ask you this my first question. And this isn't even something that they wrote for me. It's something that I have to ask you. But if I give you my credit card, can you style me? Can you just like buy what you need to buy and then I would have a good time. I would have a good time, a good and honestly, like your outfit is killer like everything. Okay, but no, who is paying you under the table right now? No? You look great. I appreciate it. Um. Okay, I want to get into tonight because so much went down. It was wild. First off, how are you doing? Can you feel like you can like breathe and relax everyone? Absolutely, it feels like a weight lifted, you know, having like seen you know, I break up and everything. Yeah. I was like really nervous for that, and so you know, with all of that and then like all the crazy drama and stuff. It's just nice that it's like a close the chapter. Yeah, close the chapter. Yeah, for sure. It's really good. Um, because it seemed like when Clayton said goodbye it was very abrupt. Obviously, I'm sure it was hard because you laid so much out there for him and that goodbye. Is there anything more that you wished you two would have talked about that you would have said, because again, it seemed so fast and abrupt, and I was like, what you just said goodbye and you're putting her into the car to go. I mean we did, we did have a conversation, and I was just so stunned at the time, like I was so shocked, and you know, I hadn't had any conversation that were negative at all with him, and so it was just like a strange experience. I wasn't expecting it at the time, and so it was really strange watching it back for that reason too, because I'm like hearing and seeing things that like I was a little stunned for it. I was a little like blacked out. Just listen, if you're talking to anyone about blacking out moments on TV, you have come to the Queen because I get it. It's like there's so much to take in, and especially when you're not expecting it, it's like what are you saying? What do you ask in those moments? Like there's nothing really that he can give back to you. So do you feel like, I mean, now that you've had a chance to see him tonight, like did he give you anymore? Do you feel like there's more closure there for you? Yeah? For sure, I definitely I found my own closure just because I felt like, you know, this is going to be shocking, like I'm going to have to move past this. Yeah, And I was just like, you know, it's just not my person, Like someone is going to choose me pick me first one day, and that's what I'm like looking forward to. It was really hard to accept that at the time. But you know, tonight he did talk about, you know, our breakup, and you know how he wished he would have said a little more or you know. So it was really good to hear that from him, just because I wasn't expecting it. Of course I was really stunned, but you know, maybe he felt comfortable with you know, what was said at the time. So I really appreciated that from him. Yeah, do you wish now looking back? And obviously hindsight is twenty twenty it's easy to say at this point, but during your hometown you said you were falling in love with him, and you you expressed so much and he can only give you so much back as laid. But now do you wish you would have kept the cards a little bit closer to you? Honestly? No, Like I one thing that we talked about that we both really valued was transparency. We had this like a little joke where he was like, you know, for a while there, I didn't know if you were into me, and I was like, oh, that can never. I don't want you to not know where I'm at. Yeah, as funny as it was, like, I really wanted to feel like I had it done and said everything like true to myself. And at the time, that's what I was feeling, you know, right, I was in love with him, and I was you know, when you start feeling those things, you're like excited to share them, maybe a little scared, maybe a little scared, but like I wanted to leave it all out there, and so that's what I did. Yeah, you did, and he did it in such like a graceful, elegant way. I mean, I think everyone felt for you in those moments when he said goodbye. I just wish we would have seen more. Like I wanted him to give more to you in that moment, because you deserved it. But there's so much more on the horizon. What can we expect anything in the future, maybe like a beach in Paradise. Oh my goodness, I have no clue what the future holds, and that's so exciting, you know. I'm just looking forward to finding that person that will choose me first. Yeah, even in the room of the most beautiful women. So I okay, you are one of the most beautiful. Okay, don't sell yourself short. Well, thank you. I just I just mean, like, you know, that's a that's a tough room to be in. And I just want someone at the end of the day that'll look at me and be like, oh my goodness, like I can't let her go. And so that's what I'm excited for and looking for. And so honestly, I'm just excited for, you know, whatever opportunities nice Well, that is the mentality to have. I can't wait to see more of you. It has been such an absolute pleasure watching you. And again, I don't know what we're gonna do without you and Batchelor Happy Hour because again, Serena has raved about your outfit choices every week, so we might have to like pull you out of the freaking out right now. I don't know. I love to listen to you guys talk about the outfits too, and you guys are so detailed. Well she one, not me. I do not pay attention to detail. But he's throwing some spice in there. But I know something, Well, she's made me up my game. But like, honestly, every time, you've been so stunning, like from head to toe, like even for someone I don't even pay attention to like lipstick color, and I'm aloud it looked so good. But it has been such a pleasure watching you. We did not get enough of you, so you know, who knows. One day I'm selfishly going to say, we'll see you in paradise, but thank you for coming about their happy hour. Appreciate have to say. I saw tonight, I was like, wait, does Genev even Sarah have the same dress in a different color? I did notice, and then I was like, Okay, how can I fuck with the fans to like pretend I'm doing a gender reveal where I like get both the girls with me and be like, what one is it? But then I was like, I can't. I can't. People would just run wild with it, so I couldn't. I couldn't. That'd be good. Thank you. The first time I've ever paid attention to anything. Okay, tonight was a lot. Yeah, you obviously had so much emotion and so much to say with everything that went down, especially with Scheney, But like, overall, how are you doing? How are you feeling in this moment? Honestly, I feel very good. I got everything off my chest that I mean, even on the show. I just said it. I always said everything I was thinking. I never held back, but I really did not hope back at all. And I'm very glad that all the other women also really spoke up. They all used a voice, and I think everyone kind of said what they've been wanting to say since leaving. Yeah, Okay, I have to ask you. You had a hot seat. It was like a number two on one tonight between you and Cheney how that. It was great? Honestly I loved it because I just like, I just feel like she has nothing to say, Like she just has there's she can't defend herself, so being up there, it's just like another two on one and it felt good because Well, I was going to ask you because obviously, like when you've watched Tellalls before, you always see just the one person in the hot seat. I don't. I can't recall, and I could be wrong, but I can't remember seeing two people, Like did you expect that? I'm sure you knew coming in people would have words with Shane, yes, and have a lot to say about that, But did you expect to be cold on stage with just the two of you? Again, I did not expect that at all. When Shane went up there, I mean, I was just expecting it to be Seney and all of us to be kind of just talking and didn't know when they called me. I mean I was like whoa, But I was It's fine. I was excited to go up there. And I mean, I don't think she she still didn't apologize and still didn't do anything that she should have done. Yeah. Well, I have to say I missed some of the beginning. I was a little late, unfortunately fashionable late, but I got filled in and it seemed like there was just so much going on. And then obviously, like towards the end, you could clear that they're with Clayton. And so how was seeing him again after being sent home, you know, I mean at this point months ago, honestly, it was it was nice to see Clayton. Um. We ended it on a good term, like it was. It was mutual. We both There are no hard feelings, at least for me. I don't think I'm either. We just realized we were in each other's person, and I mean not everyone is men for each other. So seeing him it was really nice. I gave him a hug and it was just nice to see him again, and I felt I did feel for him because everyone was really like giving it to him, but he did. He deserved I would say he deserved it, and he really owned up to it, like he really he apologized and I think he did his ballots. You should have like could have done. Yeah. Well, that's the thing, like every lead their entire journey, and I hate to say journey, but everyone's journey is so different, like no one can prep and no one to expect for this type of thing. And you know, if you're a typical human being, you're not dating thirty plus people at the same time. So it's very wild. Um Clinton aside, there were some accusations throw it out tonight about me and Thomas's nigh or Aaron Clancy. What's the deal with that? Not clear there where did um she? I think she just got it because I had posted a picture. I saw him at a bar. It was like a bunch of bachelor people and like we just recognized each other and you said hi, um and my dumb ass posted a picture stupid, And I think that's where she got that from, because there's literally nothing else I saw him. I met him that one time, and that's the only time I've ever seen him. I did not kiss him. Nothing happens. It's a good thing. I'm just gonna oh, definitely a good thing. Oh my gosh, like, like, no, that's so bad. She was not in the past, no one, but okay, so you were free to roam the beaches of Paradise. I am so free like I have. There's no connection with anyone that like yeah, no, like you said, good thing. Nothing happened with Aeron bat set up. We're good. Yeah, oh nothing. And yeah, I'm like, yeah, it's funny because she's just been like replying to all his dms and he messaged me and he said, is she actually this crazy? I said, yeah, welcome the world of batch your nation. Yeah, this is it. Okay, So speaking to Paradise, if you're wide open, who in your perfect world would you see walking down those steps. Honestly, it's hard for me because I just need to meet like I need personality, Like I need to know someone's personality. So I haven't met any like other than Rain, not one time. I haven't met anyone, So I don't really know physical wise. Gosh, okay, um, anyone in baut your nation. The world is your oyster Janny cute. I'm just kidding. Um uh uh, Rickie's cute. Oh, Rickie's cute. We like brick came out of nowhere. I don't know. I just think he's cute. Um, but like I really don't know. Aaron's cute. Like I'm gonna just drink drink. I wish I could do that too. No, you like you have so much ahead of you, so much to look forward to. You never know what's going to happen in this crazy, crazy world. Um, after everything is said and done, is there anything between you and any of the women or Clayton himself, anyone that you wish you would have said, done, etc. Beat on the show or after. Honestly, I think that I just was. I can't really hold back my thoughts, so like anything that I was feeling, I said, um so going back, I really don't think I wish I wasn't in all the drama. But like, at the same time, I chose to stick up for Elizabeth and kind of put myself in that I didn't know go like on as long as it did. But yeah, I guess I would just if I could do it over again, I would try and stay out of the drama. It's easier said than done. But um, I forgot your main question. I forgot my main question too. Just like any regrets or anything that you wish you would have said or not said, whatever it might be. I honestly there's nothing that I would take back saying. Um. I think maybe, if anything, I would have just called China out more and tried to get but like there's no getting through to her. Like I tried so many times to have her explain herself and just like have everyone listened, and she just she couldn't. So I think I said everything that I wanted to and there's nothing left that I have to say anything. Well, we'll leave it out that bigger and better things to come. Yes, thank you for joining us on Bachelor Happy Hour twice now. Yeah, I hope to see you more. Thank you. And I love the dress. I love the book and the baby pink between you and the general reveal. Yeah, did you guys know you were gonna worry my dad? We saw each other and we're like, oh my goshh yeah, good choice to start things off. And he should hold out your hand, close your eyes. I'm gonna slip you something real good. That's gonna make you feel better tonight. Okay, it's Chiffo know me too well, I know you too well. I saw you looking a little down and I said, somebody get this man a damn Barren. No, Yeah, I absolutely, Oh, I cannot say enough good things. Well, I saw you smile when Rodney came out, Ronie, what do we take? But the Brito is the gift that keeps on giving. But Rodney also is pretty much a gift that keeps on giving as well. Truly, he's a good friend. Speaking of Rodney, I was gonna say so him and I watched backstage together because we're here for Bachelorlive on stage. But he is the best friend, the best way man. Like so many times I can't can't even count how many times he's like can I just go out there and give him a hug? Like can I just go get my boy? And I was like, Rodney, it'll come, it'll come. He's been such a great support for me, somebody that, yeah I didn't know a few months ago, but somebody that is extremely genuine and listen, he's got the whole as the whole world ahead of him right now, and I'm excited to see where he takes things. But again, he's just a positive light that when he walks into a room, the room just completely lights up. And I think that's a testament to who he is. And yeah, I mean I just second I saw him here, it was not expect to see him today, and I went from being kind of in the dumps too just instantly smiling because it's people like that that you just have to be really grateful for it because there's not many individuals like him out there. Well, and he was hyping you up and obviously he lived with you during Michelle's season Dan and Day Out and got to know you. But he said, like so many of the men and women who know you support you, and today was rough, Like I get it. The tells are never easy, they're never fun. Of course it's going to be dramatic, but it seems like you got the brunt of so much of the women's anger. And I don't know if it's because like they were just angry because of all the drama, but like, overall, do you feel like you were able to express enough to them of you know, you were just trying to be you and find your person and do this journey in your own terms and so apologetic for certain things like do you feel like you left it good and said everything that you had to say for the women? Yeah, I'd say I think I was able to say ninety five percent of what I wanted to the five percent where I was just giving an explanation because I was asked why I did certain things right. There was a few times where the women you spoke up and so now, and they kind of kind of riled them up, and I realized, Okay, you're trying to give an explanation, but it's coming across I guess this is an excuse, and so I just pulled back at that point and realize it's not I do not want to try to excuse any of my behavior. I'm not trying to justify. I just want to be able to allow people to understand what was going on in my head. But there's also the point of when you just need to realize that offering explanation, um, it's going to just bring up more emotion and do more harm than good. And there were a few times to night where that was a response I got, and I did not want to go down that path and bring back that pain and have this be not a conductive conversation. So for me, I just took those moments to step back and realized, you know, don't go down that path, just move on right. Well, I think you've always done such a good job of recognizing your faults or your mishaps or where you maybe went wrong, and you have no issue of calling them out and you know, falling on the sword. One thing that stuck out to me when we first had you on Bachelor Happy Hour weeks ago is you know, you're very much like me where we like to talk, right, I guess, welcome to the club. But when you were coming on as a bachelor, your family had said, you know, take a step back and listen right like, ask the questions, but listen, would just really take in every everything that everyone's saying, which you did a great job of, especially those first few weeks. Do you know wish though at any point you maybe stood up more and asked more direct questions to the women to get to the bottom of the drama sooner. Yeah, absolutely, I think I could have asked more questions. That was one of the biggest lessons that I learned through this entire experience is what is the power of asking one more question. How much farther that would that have taken you? Could you have gotten to the other side of that entire conflict had you just ask the right question. And that's something that, yeah, I can absolutely do a better job of moving forward being in medical sales prior that, that was a major major talent that I think you have to have, is you have to go to ask the right questions. Not every question is a good one sometimes, Yeah, I mean those questions can elicit negative emotional responses that caused someone to shut down. And I now know, as I look back at it all that I should have maybe shed more light on some of these matters. Truthfully, I made the incorrect assumption that some of these some areas of these areas of conflict we're going to be able to be hashed out. And I wanted to allow the women the ability to do that. I didn't want to step in as this macho man and say I'll take control that. My whole hope is that you guys are intelligent, I mature women, and I want you to be able to try to solve this on your own. And then whenever that wasn't the case, And yeah, I had to step in, But I was so focused on trying to really focus on my journey and find my person and fall in love, and I definitely probably could have spent more time trying to address the conflict, but I was just so hyper focused on establishing genuine connections that I probably didn't really give the attention to the conflict that I should have. Well, I feel like you're like me in a sense where you know you're at a certain age and you've own and if you experience other relationships between you know, whether that's physical, sexual, or even friendships where you're like, you know, I hope this person's on my same level, and I don't always have to address certain things at a certain point and call people out, like you just hope that they're kind of there and they're being honest with you, which I feel like watching back as a viewer, especially like in terms of the whole Chinney situation and everything that encompassed, Like she was telling you one thing, and you hope, as a mature adult, what she's telling you is true. Right. Do you feel like now in a sense you've kind of had to take a step back from that process and be like, wait, now, I kind of have to question everyone more. Is it kind of like this mind fuck if you will. Yeah, yeah, that's a really great way to put it. I probably, you know, it's a fault of my own. I try to see the good and everybody. Unfortunately in my life, I've dealt with a fair amount of manipulative people that I did not realize existed. And we're willing to go to the extents that they would go to to push their own agenda. And I think that was something that was very upsetting to see that people could fake tears, fake emotions, say one thing, but me and the other you know, how do you read through that? I thought she did a phenomenal job of manipulating me. And then I watched this back and I see her laughing about the fact that she fake cried and that she did such a good job of acting in that moment, and I perceived that as real emotion. And when you see that, and then when that wasn't the only time where I felt that somebody was potentially trying to push YOURWN agenda. As other conflict arose, I started to question the entire journey because I felt, if I'm not seeing this and the other women are what else am I not seeing right? And that became a really scary spot to fall into, because then I started to question everybody and every single thing. Yeah, do you feel like you ever got that back? Or are you still kind of at this point in that mentality of like, I don't know what's real, what's not, what's fake? How do I follow the bullshit? Because I get it, I've been there too. That's a question I've asked myself almost every day since I've been off. It's so hard. When does the show end? And when does reality begin? The show was real, but yeah, people came on this experience, as I've seen, to push their own their own path forward, and at the expense of me, they decided, Hey, I don't I'm not here for him, I'm here to do whatever with this platform. And I think there's always that fear in the back of your head of did you did you steer clear of all that? Or is the show still ongoing? Is there's still more that you're not aware of that's going to come to light? And I think that's the fear. Is in any other environment in real life, you'd say, why would this person feel the need to have to spend all this time doing what they're doing. But in this environment, I think a lot of individuals understand that there's a lot that can come from this if they position themselves in the right spot. And I've learned that there's a fair amount of people that will do whatever it takes. And you just hope that you steer clear from all that. Yeah, like I said, it's a mind fuck, And it's like this has been your life right four months now, and it's still going to be your life whether you want it to or not for a little bit at this point in time, Like where are you at? I know you can't give anything away, but like are you happy? Are you well? Are you excited for what's to come? Or are you just kind of like I'm ready for it to be over and I'm stressed all of the above. I think I'm nervous about the finale. I'm nervous to face those women. I don't think it's any surprise. I'm gonna be remorseful. I'm gonna not you know, it's it's it's gonna be very challenging to uh navigate those conversations because today I had, you know, some I had connections with these women, but the ones that I'm going to now see next are the ones that I had extremely strong connections with, and I just know that emotion is going to take over. And it's really really hard for me to feel that there's anything I can say to um, you know, give give a good answer for It's just really it's gonna be really challenging, and so I know that I'm gonna face a lot of criticism. I know I'm going to take a lot of heat for all of it. And but you know what, I should be held accountable for my actions. You know, it's gonna it's gonna be tough, but I can always fall back on the fact that I did stick to my guns and I and I followed my heart and I have followed it all the way through. So if I can do that, then I can I can say I don't regret anything. Yeah, just un fortunately, sometimes on your heart is not you don't come out the other side on scathes well, and following your heart in front of millions of people, you'd never come out unscathed. Right, Like, it's the next couple of weeks will be crazy, wild, very very tough, but I hope ultimately worth it, because at the end of the day, Like I know you enough to know that you're just a kind to noon guy. We all make mistakes, right, like, no one is perfect, but you do deserve to find that one person that loyal, respectful, loving partner, and I hope you find it. I truly, truly do. I know it's been a hell of a ride and I'm so sorry with everything you've dealt with tonight. It was a lot. But hopefully in a few weeks you can breathe easy and you can kick up your feet and know it's all worth it, and in the meantime you have to pull it to help you. Yeah. Oh, that brat felt a little cold though, I think it hit the microwave. But what an absolute treat that has been talking to all of our special guests, and I'm so happy that we were finally able to do it in person again. It has been far too long. I'm also excited that this part of Clay and stourney is behind him and we can finally find out where his love story begins and ends. What is up, Bachelor Happy our listeners, It has been a wild, wild week in the world of batter Nation. We of course, had back to back episodes this week with the women to all and now last night's fantasy suits, so there was no way we weren't going to get together and share all of our thoughts on everything that transpired. And I am truly so happy that we're doing this part two for this week's double episode event because, oh my god, Becca, I have so much to say about last night's episode. Can we please just dive right into it? Oh girl, of course we can. We're just we're not even going to dip our toes in water, We're just going to go straight in. Of course, I filmed with the women during the tell all, so we of course couldn't miss fantasy suits because we've seen crazy shit happen obviously in past seasons, but this one I don't think was something any of us expected. I truly don't even want to get into recapping Rachel or Gabby's fantasy suits because they were so straightforward right like, it was a love fest between both the women and Clayton that we just have to get into Susie. And I know you have certain thoughts, opinions, comments on Susie and the fashion this week, so let's just dive right into the favorite fashion moments. Oh I have thoughts, opinions, hot takes on all of it. My my favorite fashion moments is gonna go to Susie and I loved her day look. I loved her night look. I don't know if it's just because we saw her on our screen so much, but it was definitely my favorite. I don't know if she had a little help putting this outfit together. I don't know if it was maybe from her fashion day in Vienna, but it was gorgeous all around, definitely something a little more elevated than we've seen her wearing, and I think it was definitely a statement goodbye look that she put on that night. Having watched Susie and just all the women's fashion all season, this look definitely stood out to me only because it was boulder. It was a little out of her color scheme, just across the board, something that I would expect to see maybe on Serene, Sierra, maybe a few of the women that go for like these boulder sex here Eliza. It wasn't something I would have put in Susie's wheelhouse, especially with the match and green earring and accessory I have yet to see on her yet, which at this point in the season, all the women are repeating their accessories, so I could be wrong here, I'm going to preface it with I could be wrong. I would not be surprised though, if someone ak the stylist styled Susie and Carrie, our favorite angel, Carrie Fatman. If you did it, you rocked it. If you did it, ten out of ten. It's one of my favorite looks of the exact season. And I will say, if it was all Susie, kudos to YouTube because it was stunning. Oh yeah, Susie, if you're listening to this amazing work, this is your basket look of the season, and continue on this line with your fashion choices because it looked stunning. Let's get into this overall, not even the full date, just that evening portion because that's where the juice juice all happened. What are your thoughts overall, because I know why I have mine, but I don't want to I don't want to write so right now, I have so many thoughts. And look, we've had Susie on the podcast. I really adored her, and I've actually really liked her this whole season. But I personally, if we're going team Susie, team Clayton in this episode. I am one hundred and ten percent team Clayton and disagree with actually a lot of the things Susie was saying and doing in this episode. I had to stop and pause the episode so many times to just like yell at Joe about how frustrated I was watching this all go down. But I think that Clayton handled himself really well. My biggest issue, I'll just give you my overlying issue and we can break it down from here. I wish if that was a deal breaker she had told him sooner, and my hot take is that it wasn't just that it came down to her feelings, because I think if she was madly in love with Clayton and if she really saw a future with him like she's been saying all season, there would have at least been more of a fight or a discussion in trying to see if that was something they could get past. She's watched the show, she knows how it works, she knows what fancy sweetsay is. This didn't come as a total blindside to her. I don't know. I'm getting kid it already. Back him, please take over? No, And to play off of your point, there's a couple. Well, there's a lot that goes into this, right, Like, she definitely, if this was such a major issue, she should have had that conversation with him prior to literally right before getting the key to go into the fantasy suits. Like timing was not on her side because of her decision making, and she did have the worst state of fantasy suite weeks she was going last. Yes, I understand that sucks you're in your head constantly, but we've seen it before where she has snuck out and has made time to have a conversation with Clayton exhibit A when she told him at the clock tower she was falling in love with him and she planned that like little Getaway, she could have found time I think this week at any point just to let him know where she was, Like how much it was wayne on her that if he were to be intimate with another woman, if you were to tell another woman he loved them, she could have found that time to make that conversation because it seems like it was the most important conversation for her to have that where I think she definitely messed up, Like, you know, I understand that you don't always have the right time. You don't always have the means to see the lead whenever you want. But also there's so much time between hometowns and your time on fantasy suits that that conversation could have happened. Yeah, and I'm even giving him like an ultimatum, but like, let's say hometowns or the week before hometowns. You know she has an inclination. They have one of the stronger connections, and she might be making it there just saying hey, look, I know fantasy suits are a little bit away. I don't even know if you and I are going to be there. I hope we're going to be there, and if we are, I think it's important that you know that intimacy for me in a relationship is something I take really seriously. It's not casual for me. It's a big commitment, a connective experience, and I think it's important that you know for me, if I'm there, that I would feel really uncomfortable with you exploring that with other women if it's going to be me and you at the end of this right well, and the whole thing is too in my mind, she was set to go last in the week, but had she gone first and had this alone time, this overnight with Clayton, had this conversation, maybe things would have changed, and he had mentioned that he wished she would have known sooner, but also maybe not because he still had three overall relationships to explore. So that's where my hold up is is like, just because now you asked him point blank, have you slept with these other tw women, have you told them you loved them? Which also like at this point really is none of her business until they were like unless she was like the last woman standing at the very end, I'm like, don't even touch that separate relationship. She did have the opportunity to still go into the fantasy suite overnight alone time with him and just talk to him. It's not like she had to be intimimate with him. No one's writing these rules of like, oh you have to have sex or you have to sleep together, you have to hook up, Like you couldn't really use that time for whatever you want, And she could have just used it to talk more with him away from the lights and the camera and the producers and everyone. And that's where I'm thinking, maybe she wasn't just that into him if she couldn't even allow herself that time, right, Yeah. Well, the weird thing for me, and this is just my perception, is when Clayton said I'm in love with you, over all her attitude in the state, it almost like she sat down having already decided that she was going home. Like to me, she sat down in her energy the way it was shown exuded I'm leaving at the end of this date, like I'm not going to fantasy suites like it lookally, she had already made her decision without hearing even his answer to her question, which was very bizarre to me because she's claiming that it's based on the fact that he told her, yes, I slept with the other women. Yes, I'm in love with the other women too. Yet there was a very like cold, disconnected reaction. And I don't know Susie personally, Like maybe that's just how she takes shocking news, but I just found her so disconnected. Even when he was saying, like I have something to share with you, like I am in love with you, like her shock didn't. There was no sign of like excitement or joy towards him when he said that. It was very much almost like shoot like disappointment on her face and to support her. I've been in that same way where I've gone into certain dates, certain nights already have had having my mind made up where because I do feel disconnected, because I was like, I'm set, I know what I'm doing it, i know it's right for me. I'm not going to waiver, which doesn't always resonate well on TV then with viewers and with the other person. So I can see play to playing off of your like I I can't even talk to add to your point of that, like outs where I'm like, she probably did have her mind made up. She probably was set, I'm going home, which is why I have questions for her, because if she had her mind made up and were crrapt, then Clayton telling her I slept with Gabby and Rachel I'm in love with Gabby and Rachel also was not actually the deal breaker because she didn't find that out until she was sitting at the table, like let's call it thirty minutes into their dinner, right. It's there's so much, so many random things that go into the set. We could keep going on and on about. One thing too that really stuck out to me was I had mentioned a little bit earlier was that. When Clayton was talking to Susan, he says, Oh, my god, I wish you would have told me this sooner. I wish you would have had this conversation earlier in the week. Maybe I would have changed my approach. That part was weird to me too, because again, like, would he then have been doing a disservice to himself, to the other women, to the relationship, Because if he genuinely is really truly falling for all three of these women in different ways, would he have just cut those other two relationships off had he known how she felt? Like, I'm very interested to see had this week one in a different order, what would have happened? Because then I feel like, if he was actually here doing what he was saying he was doing to be the bachelor, to explore every relationship to the end, why would you have changed it that that much if you had such strong feelings for these two remaining women. Yeah, I agree, I think so too. I think he's saying like things could have maybe gone differently, But I don't think he's saying like I definitely would have done I definitely wouldn't have done that if I'd known. I think he's just saying like this would have been information that I would have liked to have when I was making my decisions. I'm not, like, I think it's good to explore all the relationships personally, Like I've never been the lead, so like I can't say like what I would or wouldn't have done, But I think that it's important that you're exploring all three of your relationships to the fullest. And I think you know what you're signing up for to an extent as a contest when you're in that position. And I think that she kind of set him up for failure by not telling him how important that was to her, and then when it came down to it, saying like sorry, that was a deal breaker, and like actually it's over. I'm done. I'm leaving right now. Isn't it wild to think about rehashing past recent seasons. I feel like there's always something in this week during Fantasy Suits that like rocks the boat, rocks leep. We saw it with I mean we saw it back on Colton's season. We saw it with Tasia when Brendan laughed and said he wasn't ready to get engaged. We saw it on Katie's season when Greg left and who I don't even know who, like a couple of the guys left, Like we just keep seeing this. I'm like, what is it going on with the show where it's like this week is like the bomb drops and like everyone leaves, like chaos is stirred. It's insane, It's true. How would you compare? Because I actually was talking to Joe about this, I'm curious to hear your take. I think a lot of people when they watched this episode are going to say, well, Maddie Pruett did the same thing to Peter. Personally, for me, I think there are two different situations. What do you think? Okay, remind me Maddie left Peter. Maddie Basley did the I could be wrong here, Like, if anyone's listening, they're like, those aren't the facts, Like this is just from my memory off the top of my head, but I'm pretty certain Maddie was the third Fantasy sweet date. It was like Victoria Fuller and Hannah Anne went first, and she sat down and basically said almost the same thing Susie did, where if you slept with the other women, I'm going to be very uncomfortable and I'm gonna have a huge issue with it. Ultimatum. Yes, but she stuck around and she I think had told him like she was very open about her opinions on sex and relationship and how her faith played a role in that, which again like, why are you waiting till this week to have that conversation. I mean, we saw Teddy tell Clayton earlier on weeks ago that she was still a virgin. It's like, why can't these conversations be taking place? You know, I'm to be honest, I don't see that much difference between Susie and and Maddie at all. I think it's basically the same thing. And I remember when we had when I was still doing the podcast with Rachel. She had many opinions on that ultimatum of you know, if you've done this or if you choose to do this, I'm leaving. It's like, but you know what this show is like. If you're a fan of the show, which we know Susie has been watching for a while, you know how things work. You know that once you get to the last third week, you have three women left, you have three fantasy suites. It's like you can prepare yourself to know how you're gonna, you know, try to enter into each week, and so that's what's bizarre to me, is like that these keep happening this late in the game. Yeah, I think the only slight difference with Maddie might have been that she was pretty open about her faith and how that played a role in her life throughout the show, whereas for Susie, this just seemed to come really out of nowhere. And maybe they had this conversation and it wasn't shown. But I mean, Clayton even quoted Susie to her facing you told me to explore these other relationships. You told me that you wanted me to choose you at the end after exploring all these relationships to the fullest. So she's now kind of going back on her word. It sounds like, Yeah, I think it's just there's so much disconnect. But I think also to what Susie was hoping for was that like Clayton could kind of just read her mind and know that if he felt so strongly for her, he would back off on the other two relationships, which, again to her point of exploring everything, would be doing a disservice to that. So really bad bad communication. I'm very interested to see where this is going to go next week, because the way it ended, Clayton flied outside my heart sound in it. I'm over this making it seem like this season is now a rap. But if you're a lead, you can't just quit a season you got. You gotta finish it out. Yeah, I mean, here's the thing. I think in that moment, it's hard. He's feeling a form of heartbreak and probably just feels completely blindsided. But he is in love with Rachel and Gabby too apparently. So we still have two full episodes left, so there's still a lot to come. I mean, it's not over yet. Susie may be gone, but it is not over yet. It's gonna be that. I just keep thinking of, like when Jesse Palmer at the end of Women Till All said, you know I was there and I still don't know what happened. I'm like, this is going to be a crazy, crazy finale. I do want to ask you one thing though, in terms of Clayton and the final goodbye between him and Susie, I know that many people are going to have a lot of opinions on how he handled things, on how Susie handled things. I feel like it will be a house divided very very soon. In the way that Clayton handled that goodbye though, do you think he did well? Do you think his actions were justified? Like? How do you think he did in that moment? I thought he did well. I actually really thought he did well. I feel like Susie's last comment of I wish this could have been handled better with more kindness. I think she is was probably being a little idealistic going to that breakup, thinking that it was going to be smooth sailing and she was going to go home and they were going to hug and wish each other well. But I think I would have handled it somewhat similarly to Clayton. I think he was very direct. I don't think he was disrespectful, and I think what Susie wished is it could have been nicer and calmer. But I think that's not fair because she's the one breaking up with Clayton, and he has the right to question her and be angry and be frustrated, just as any normal human being feels when they're being broken up with. What did you think? I mean? I definitely agree with that, but I also have to keep in mind. I've been on both sides, Like I've been in Clayton's position, where I've been broken up with and very very shocked and blindsided, where I didn't know how to react. And again, like I mean, we all saw the breakup between me and Ari, where I was just pissed and I was like, get the f out, get that out. So I understand Clayton's approach to that because I was in his position. I was the same way. And I also had been on the other side where I've been the one to break up and to end relationships with people, and you know, it's never like you never know how to prep for that, Like you never know how to like handle somebody because you don't know what they're going to be feeling. And like I have to then think about like when I broke up with Thomas in Paradise, which doesn't even seem like a thing anymore because him and I heard great now, Like he also was very upset and walked away, and I was stuck in this position of like, Okay, do I go after him and like try to explain myself more, or do I let him go and you know, be free in move on, Like it's like this weird disconnect where like you're like, yeah, I was one doing this, but now I don't know what to do and I feel terrible, But yeah, I don't want to like invalidate anyone's feelings because what the other person is feeling is very valid, so kind of I think the biggest issue with it for me at least was and like, I actually did have sympathy for Susie in this situation if I could tell she had made up her mind but also wanted to talk more, and like, I think she was trying to get it to a place where they could end on a positive note, which, like I can absolutely understand wanting that, but I think Clayton was basically standing there like you've made up your mind. There's no like fighting for this or convincing you otherwise, So what is there more to say? Because you're not saying you're gonna like talk this through and like work this through with me. So he's probably thinking, like I already feel, I just sat here, told you I was in love with you, and then got oaken up with in return, Like he's probably hurting, And I think the best thing was for that convo to end, because I think it only could have gone downhill from there. Yeah, and there's only so much you can say, especially in that situation where she already did pretty much make up her mind, and he knew that you're not gonna want to stand outside in the freezing cold in Iceland and keep saying the same thing over and over. There's a point where you won't get anywhere. It's not a good look for anyone, and sometimes you just have to let bygones bygones and go. And so I think that's where he was at. And he also probably knew after this, like, oh shit, I have a long night ahead of me of interviews and going through all of the emotions of a heartbreak and whatnot. So it'll be interesting to see where this goes next week. I truly feel for Clayton in this moment. I know he's going to probably get a lot of backlash again, probably much more hate, But in this situation, I feel like he was very justified in feeling hurt and reacting in the way that he did. Yeah, I hope. I just hate that we watch this and have to think about the hate that they're going to get. Because as much as like I had a lot of criticism for Susie and today's episode, I still can have sympathy for the fact that, like she was struggling in vulnerable and I don't necessarily agree with some of her choices that she made, but like to think that she's potentially going to get so much hate and like angry, awful dms and like so will Clayton, and just like a moment of pain and emotion of vulnerability that it's going to get aired on TV. Just just ma see sad that like that's a part of their journey. Yeah, and I'm glad that you mentioned that too, because I mean for us as podcasters, we have to look at this objectively and just give our opinions. And that's what this is. We're not speaking poorly of anyone and not trying to judge how they handle the situation. It's just giving our thoughts and feedback of you know, if we were in that position, how would we react, what would we do? And so again, like this is I know for everyone watching, Yes, it's TV show, but like this is real life for these people. Like Clayton was hurting, Susie was hurting. It was a rough week for both of them, and no one is perfect no relationship is perfect, and so just go easy on everyone because ultimately, at the end of this everyone's just trying to find more of who they are and their person in life, and so just allow them to do that. It's it's like, you know, once the show is done, let it. Let it live there on the TV and not on your fingertips behind a phone screen. Yeah, if you want to talk shit about their breakup this week, call your mom, call your best friend, call your partner, and vent on the phone. Because imagine your breakup was filmed and aired on television. I'm sure people would have a lot to say about my behavior, about backs behavior, about well, I mean they did, they did, they did about your behavior. So yeah, yeah, it's it's a rough one. I mean, do you have any predictions for next week? Like, do you even have any idea of what to expect? Yeah, let's do fin now predictions. I feel like that's a fun way to end this off. So Susie's gone. I don't know one hundred percent if that's the last of her we're going to see or not. I mean, it felt like a very unfinished note to end on. But she also seemed very decided, so I think, you know, that could be she's on her way home. We still have Gabby and Rachel. I think it's really going to come down to if Clayton says, screw it, it was Susie and I'm done with this whole thing, or if he's going to try to push through. I mean, we see Rachel and Gabby. They do seem really in love with him. I mean, he was screaming to them how much she loved them. So I would love to see him with someone at the end of this. I want him to find love, and if it's not with Susie, then maybe Rachel or Gabby is his person. What I'm going to say is he left us with I would say some faith, and he basically said, you know, I have to have faith at the end of the set, it's all going to work out and that everything happens for a reason. So because he said that, I have to think he still ends up with one of these women. I have to say, just based on what I'm seeing as a viewer, I would skew towards Rachel and then I would selfishly want to say I would love to see Gabby as boucherette. But who knows because I am always so damn wrong when it comes to this that. I mean, I thought Rachel was like the front runner for a while now so same. I was surprised when it was like, Susie though, is my number one love? I was like, yeah, yeah, I know. After this episode, I mean, he's I would say, since the very beginning, I thought Rachel and Susie were going to make it to the end. I kind of knew that I didn't know where they stacked with each other, But after hearing Cleant talk about Susie, I felt like this week he was basically throwing his hands up, being like, it's Susie. Susie was the one, Yeah, obviously she is no more. So I don't know. I just I also really feel bad at this point for Rachel and Gabby or not. I don't even want to say bad. I don't want to pity them, but I can feel for how they're probably going to feel next week when Clayton has this big reveal of hey, I was intimate with both of you. That's not going to be fun to hear. We've already seen it in the teaser for next week, so we know that that's going to happen. I will say now to that clip makes so much more sense now having watched this episode, like why because the whole season, like, why would Clayton do that? Why would he say that? I don't understand? So now the context kind of makes it makes sense. Yeah, totally, because now he's like, well, if these other women are feeling like how Susie felt, they deserve to know before I get down on one knee. So it'll be interesting, I mean, and especially things change in that last week so drastically when you bring your own family into the mix and they see you interact with the last two people. So we have a lot still to come. I know we only have one week left, but it's going to be a lot. It's a two day finale, live finale. But yeah, there we are both days live. Hm. Whoa is that a first we've ever done that before on our season? We did it and it sucked. I bet, Oh my god, it was the worst. I was. I literally think I almost peeed my pants backstage. I was so scared. So I know exactly what that feels like. But you know, Serena, this is what we've all signed up for. Yeah, so this is we did it. Becca and they'd have to do it too. I know it's a rite of passage at this point. Yes, all right, well, thank you for joining me this week. I know we had so much to talk about. We could have kept on talking about everything and dissecting it, but we don't have all that time. So thank you Serena for joining me, and a huge thank you to our Bachelor Happy our listeners for being here. As a reminder, we are still casting for a bachelor and Bachelor at so make sure to head to bachelination dot com slash apply if you want to nominate either yourself or somebody great. Also, make sure to hit us up on social. You can follow us at at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram and from there you will find everything that you need to know to follow us on Twitter and TikTok, and don't forget that Badelor Happy Hour is available on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen, and if you don't know, you can listen ad free by subscribing to Wonderree Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wonderree app. Thank you everyone for listening this week and we will see you next week for Clayton's finale episodes. I'll see you next week, so we're gonna take care everyone. Bye back in, Bye everyone,