How the U.S. Has Lost Its Way at the Ryder Cup with Johnson Wagner

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

00:00:05
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a fried egg Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg, Frida egg, Frida egg egg, fridagg bride egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off.

00:00:13
Speaker 1: Of the course.

00:00:37
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the FRIDAYGG Golf Podcast. I am your host, Andy Johnson, and today's episode is presented by Optum. Optum is a leading information and technology enabled health services business dedicated to helping make the health system work better for everyone. With more than two hundred and ten thousand people worldwide, optim delivers intelligent, integrated solutions that help modernize the health system and improve overall population health. Optim is part of the United Health Group and OPTIM is a proud partner of the Players Championship and Rory McElroy, one of the stars of the Ryder Cup Maybe the Star the Culture Center for the Europeans, is an OPTIM Health Ambassador. Visit optom dot com to learn more and big thanks to optim for getting us out to Bethpage and supporting us for a big week for us. I'm really excited today to chat about the Ryder Cup. I'm going to be joined by NBC Sports Golf Channel. You probably see him on live from doing some crazy stuff. Johnson Wagner. Johnson is one of my favorite people in the golf world that I run into at golf tournaments.

00:01:47
Speaker 1: I am.

00:01:49
Speaker 2: I'm very excited to chat with him about the week he was. He was in the arena, he was doing coverage of the Ryder Cup for Peacock, and then he was also doing live from at night for Golf Channel.

00:02:03
Speaker 1: So Johnson was.

00:02:04
Speaker 2: In the in the ring and h and and kind of got to experience everything that Beth Page and the Ryder Cup had to offer. Obviously, the Europeans got it done. If you're listening to this, you probably watched. It was a It was a blowout that became a tightly contested battle late on Sunday, almost a remarkable comeback by the United States team. But it was it was really an interesting week to be out there, to to put it more ways than one. On one hand, you had just like an extraordinary some extraordinary golf, uh and then on the other hand, you had just kind of a tough week with with crowd interaction with players. It was we get into all of that on this podcast and kind of talk about what's next for both teams. Big thanks to Johnson for joining us, and let's get to Johnson Wagner. All Right, Johnson, I think this is the last huge event of the year. You know, I haven't consulted a calendar. I'm very sleep deved, deprived. I'm just happy to be done with the Ryder Cup at this point. But I think I think you're done with Live From for the year. And I'm just curious. I know you're calling the golf tournament this weekend. When you get done with like the last Live from, is it kind of a big excel? Is there a ritual that you guys you know.

00:03:34
Speaker 3: Do well. This is only my second year doing Live From and yeah, there's a big, big exhale. It's called closing down the lobby bar of the hotel that we've been staying at all week. And we did that successfully and and then it may have ended up into a hotel room for extracurricular Yes, every Live From week, the hours are long and it's rewarding and we love these majors. But man Scotti Scheffler said it in his Push Round comments yesterday. He went all five matches and he's like, this is exhausting. Going all five matches is exhausting, and like as tired as I am, push Ryder Cup and I know you are too, Like, imagine what it's like for those players that went five rounds. Like walking that golf course, it's a lot, it's a big week.

00:04:23
Speaker 2: It that is a taxing walk out there. It was hotter than I think everybody expected it to be. It's a big walk.

00:04:31
Speaker 1: And I just think the I don't you.

00:04:35
Speaker 2: I don't think people that haven't played like competitive golf at you know, understand the mental strain that goes into a single round of golf.

00:04:46
Speaker 1: And you could just see it on.

00:04:48
Speaker 2: The guy's faces that all the all the guys that went five, they they were so out of gas on Sunday. It actually made me think, like, and I think Luke got won it on Saturday on Saturday by pushing his horses. But they had nothing. They had nothing in the tank on Sunday. And that's part of the story. And it makes me wonder if going having your horses go five is a good strategy.

00:05:18
Speaker 1: I think you could.

00:05:19
Speaker 2: It's like a great debate as to whether it is, but absolutely I mean, I've exhausted because those days are so long and there's just like really quick turnaround.

00:05:30
Speaker 1: But I couldn't even imagine.

00:05:32
Speaker 2: Being in the arena with everything going on, especially this week, the intensity level of match play, the intensity level of playing for your country or playing for your continent.

00:05:45
Speaker 1: It, Yeah, you could see it on those guys' faces.

00:05:50
Speaker 3: Any I walked Saturday afternoon with featured match on Peacock. Then it was Deshambeau and Scheffler versus Fleetwood and Rose. And I mean, I play a lot of golf. I walk. I know Bethpage what it was an incredible match, and I knew what it was going to be like. And when I get out there and I walk, I'm I'm racing down the fairways. I'm getting up in front of people. And I was fine. My two bad knees and I was just killing it, crushing it up the hills, getting a head. And I got in my cart and drove back to the TV compound to get ready to go do live from And it was about a fifteen minute cart ride back when I got out of the cart and my left leg hit the ground. My knee could not my left knee could not support my body weight and a darn near went to the ground like it was just my legs were so sore, like these guys, it's it's it's a it was a grind out there because of everything. But that golf course is a particularly difficult walk. I mean it's up and down the whole time. So I mean kudos to who was it, Scottie, Rory, Fleetwood, Bryson. I mean those guys that went from that is like rom all time, all time.

00:07:03
Speaker 2: I hadn't been there since the PGA, and I forgot how vertical the climbs are up to greens, Like I remember, there are a lot of elevated greens, and that's something if you've been to Bethpage you just know. I forgot how how vertical they are, Like they are really steep climbs.

00:07:25
Speaker 3: Really steep climbs. And to be honest, like tough viewing, especially for a Ryder cup. I thought that viewing, you know, walking inside the ropes, you want to be careful of standing in front of fans and taking knee whatever you got to do. It's tough to get a spot where you can see. And I thought that the spectator experience at a Ryder Cup or President's Cup is tough anyway, especially Friday Saturday, because there's only four groups at a time and so it's just congested. But I thought Beth Page was especially tough to watch golf this year, which may have led to some of the chippiness of the fans.

00:08:00
Speaker 1: Could have you know, I want to make you feel better.

00:08:04
Speaker 2: I've got a woman that drives me back and forth from the airport all the time, and I was like embarrassed when I got dropped off a couple of minutes ago. Before this, I like, I think she's got seen me get out of She's seen me get out of a car like so many times, and I got out so gingerly this morning. I could see in her eye she was wondering what was wrong with me?

00:08:29
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I can't imagine flying across the country from New York to did you find the Seattle? Is that where you live?

00:08:35
Speaker 1: San Francisco?

00:08:36
Speaker 3: San Francisco. Sorry, I can't imagine. I can't imagine taking a cross country flight this morning, how my body would have felt. I know how it feels right now. And all I've been doing is slug and water all day, trying to hydrate I can't imagine how your body feels.

00:08:50
Speaker 2: I mean, thankfully I didn't close down a hotel bar last night, so that would be the only thing that could have made it worse. Say that, let's get to the uh, to the competition. There's there's a lot to unpack. I think this was uh, this was kind of a content bonanza.

00:09:15
Speaker 1: Obviously the Europeans win. Uh.

00:09:17
Speaker 2: They you know, as as Rory calls a shot, Uh, it's become very difficult to win in a way Ryder Cup and the US team blitz or the US team got blitzed the first two days.

00:09:31
Speaker 1: And and then made a.

00:09:32
Speaker 2: Remarkable comeback on Sunday to make it close. It was kind of insane watching it. Let's start with a few players, Uh, what were Who were a couple of players that stood out to you from.

00:09:47
Speaker 1: Both a positive and negative sense.

00:09:50
Speaker 3: I'm gonna put I'm gonna go USA first, and I think I think Xanderschou it was a big question mark going in, just giving the way that he played throughout the season, didn't play since VMW had a baby. I think as far as the American side, he was a question mark, which is crazy that he was a question mark and he brought it. He played great. I love Xander Schaffle, JJ, Spawn, Cameron Young. They were unbelievable, like the people we the people we thought we were gonna have, and Scottie and Bryson weren't. I mean, for whatever reason, they brought the intensity they wanted it. But Spawn, Young and Xander are my three MVPs for the American team.

00:10:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it was such a weird year leading in for the Americans, where you obviously had had some turnover like the Brooks, DJ Era gone in sense of two mainstays for a number of years, particularly.

00:10:48
Speaker 1: DJ just kind of a horse.

00:10:51
Speaker 2: And in comes a bunch of players like that people felt were question marks. But in the sense of in the case of Cameron Young, JJ Spahn to the players playing the best coming in and I think you I was sitting in the press conference last night with the European team like this was actually afterwards Rory was talking to an Irish television network. He was just talking about like how important form is coming in and if you looked at form coming in, those were two of the biggest, you know, the best players coming into it.

00:11:26
Speaker 1: Now.

00:11:26
Speaker 2: Xander Schoffley, I think he was oddly as you said a question mark, and it kind of felt like he found his game late in the week.

00:11:37
Speaker 3: I'm with you, well, Cam Young. I watched Cam Young on Thursday when they played where they went out and played one fifteen sixteen, seventeen eighteen. He missed every fairway, missed every green. It was. It was awful, and I was convinced that he was going to sit the entire day. On Friday, he sat in the morning, and then when he came out Friday afternoon, stuffed it on one made birdie on his first ever whole in a Ryder Cup. He just ascended, like immediately, like I was. I was. I was taken aback by how great he was because of what I saw during practice rounds, because he was not good during practice rounds. But that's a different thing. Were talking about practice.

00:12:18
Speaker 2: I think, you know, Cam had kind of a dream setup. Obviously, he had circled the date and it was a real question till the end if he was going to make the team. But you know, he's a native New Yorker and basically I saw like them go through like all of his career achievements.

00:12:36
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure. I'm not sure where I saw it, whether it was.

00:12:39
Speaker 2: It might have been on Golf Channel or USA during one session all the achievements they had throughout his life on Bethpage Black like you know it was he obviously everybody talks about the State the State Open, winning that as an amateur at twenty one, he won a state championship there in high school, I think some other some other he had a few other accolades there. But you think about like a dream setup is like I can't imagine. There are many courses and I'd be curious in your career if you had something similar to this where you just have good, good feelings at places that developed through a long history of playing great there and he comes out and he just balls out there.

00:13:22
Speaker 1: I mean, I.

00:13:23
Speaker 2: Think if big turb it goes at bath Page, Cavyog has to be at the top of the top.

00:13:29
Speaker 1: Of the list of contenders no matter what.

00:13:32
Speaker 3: After this week, I can completely agree. And for me, it was the Houston Open that it used to be called Redstone now it's Golf Club Cheston. I won there in eight. I played well there in seven my rookie year, and every year I could have missed ten cuts coming into it. I could have been playing at the top of my game. It didn't matter. I was going to play great at that golf course. And it's amazing. What when you step on a facility, when you step on a property that you love and you know you're gonna play well at that Like like that's that's the goal. You want to feel that way every week. But he is he is built for that place in the setup didn't hurt him either. No rough and and and wider fair ways that it was like he's like, he's like, whoa bes pitch is hard. Now it's easy. I'm going to tear this place to pieces. And that's what he did.

00:14:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the the Bahmers we were very rewarded. It was an interesting decision was set up just because if you looked at the two teams that the team that had the really precise shorter players were the Americans with with Marikawa and Henley in particular, two players that they were leading on an alternate shot at a an area, you know, a session they got just smoked in the real click on Redstone. This is just a quick anecdote. I would say that one of the holes that I most miss on the PGA Tours the eighteenth hole at Redstone because anything could.

00:15:04
Speaker 3: Happen, anything could happen. It was. It's a great golfle. It's a great finish to any golf tournament as that golfle. And when they had it set up before the week before the Masters, and they had it overseated, and the fairies were so tight and the greens were so fast, and there was no rough and it was it was a joy to play that place.

00:15:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I played there.

00:15:26
Speaker 2: I lived in Texas for a short period of my life and I played there a few times. And you know, I was in my twenties playing somewhere. The tour played was just but that that eighteenth I had a great.

00:15:37
Speaker 1: Round going once in that eighteenth hole, just ate my lunch.

00:15:40
Speaker 2: I think I made a quad and I was you know, it was around that I was like really going and it just completely derailed me.

00:15:49
Speaker 3: So there.

00:15:50
Speaker 2: It delivers so many good moments over the years seventeen and eighteen.

00:15:54
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Oh my gosh, incredible.

00:15:59
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the year real quick. Who are a couple players that stood out to you there?

00:16:06
Speaker 3: Rory obviously, with everything he had to deal with, going five playing the way he did. I think John Ram I think John Ram is a top three player in the world and he showed us that this week and it's just so sad we don't get to see him more often. Matthew Fitzpatrick, who was a captain's pick, who Luke Donald spurred on and said, you need to do something at the end of this year or you're not going to be on the team. And the way he played the back half of the season and then the Ryder Cup, he was amazing. Tommy Fleetwood is an absolute beast. And Justin Rose, who's my age, he's forty five years old. Justin Rose going out and doing what he did, putting the way he putted. I have so much respect for Justin Rose. It's not even at forty five doing what he's doing, playing at that level. It's remarkable. So I mean, I mean, I could go down the whole year all of the European team pressed me. I think they were they were they were spot on, they were stoic under extreme scrutiny and intensity.

00:17:10
Speaker 2: I want you you went the whole Fleetwood Rose Bryson Scottie match and you know, I I think it was.

00:17:20
Speaker 1: It may Bee.

00:17:21
Speaker 2: You know, you can look at a lot of a lot of different matches and and talk about the importance, but I think maybe that match encapsulated just the European team versus the US team more so than anything. Obviously Rose and Fleetwood have these unbelievable Ryder Cup records, but you know, the US team, pairing Scottie and Bryson in a four ball setting, was saying, we are going to go win this point. That's you know, the message they were sending. And those two played great but ran into it.

00:18:00
Speaker 3: They were nine under par through sixteen holes and lost. They were nine under par through sixteen holes. It was it was ridiculous. It was ridiculous.

00:18:12
Speaker 1: What was I know, it's all right.

00:18:13
Speaker 2: I was just gonna get to the question, what are some lasting memories from that match that you'll have being up close and just watching it unfold.

00:18:26
Speaker 3: I mean it started so early. They both birdied one, Scotty and Scotty and Rose, I think the same on two. Rose made birdie on three, and then you're two under two three and you're one down, and then Bryson on this was the best, maybe the best golf shot I've ever seen blind pin. He was the last one to play in on four and he had an eight iron from like two ten to this far for eagle to win the hole, and it was just like it was UNBLI and I'm way trudging up ahead and I didn't see it. Smiley Coffin was with that group with NBC and he gets up, he walks, it takes a different route and he's like, it's like this and I got up there and there's the reaction from Bryson, and I mean there's I don't think we have enough time on this podcast to talk about how many memories I have from that match. Scotty Scheffler on ten fly Tommy Fleetwood hid in on ten to a foot and a half. He was first to play. Scotty Scheffler was second to play, and he flew it into the cup and it bounced out into the rough. Scotty Scheffler flew the ball into the hole and it bounced out to the rough. It was unbelievable. He it was the best ball striking. Twelve when Fleetwood and Rose Scotty's over by the porta John's left hits a great shot to the right, you know, just right of the green, and then I think it was Fleetwood first sticks it to five feet and then Rose hits it to three feet and then Bryson's like, you know, ten feet and he's the worst shot of the bunch. It was just constant back and forth and the amount of birdies, the amount of quality golf shots in that group was unlike you thing I've ever seen.

00:20:03
Speaker 2: The golf course set up being so soft, I think yielded a lot of like spectacular shots the short rough but but at the same time, to me, the thing, one of the things that stuck from the week was just the level of shot making and in moments where people put it on top of the you know, an already great shot, which in match play somebody's putting the screws to you. You're hitting second, you see a great shot go up there, you know you have to deliver. And how many times on both sides that they delivered and then cashed in putts from that match, I don't think I'll ever forget, you know, justin Rose going out, I can only imagine how frustrating this is for Scotti and a Bryce. It I think we saw it probably probably flare up with Bryson.

00:20:52
Speaker 1: With Rose.

00:20:53
Speaker 2: I heard that, you know, Cam Young in a post round or in the in the post tournament Prescott Prince when when he was talking, somebody asked him about his Sunday match, and he was like, you know, I had it in hand. Everything was going great, and then all of a sudden, justin Rose things started happening, you know, And the way he described it is justin Rose things.

00:21:14
Speaker 1: And then I thought I was gonna blow it.

00:21:16
Speaker 2: Well, all day, all day Saturday afternoon was justin Rose things happening. And I will never forget the putt on was it five or six where he has like a fifteen footer. He's already made three or four birdies in the opening holes, and he hits the putt and seemingly as soon as it leaves the face, he starts walking it in.

00:21:37
Speaker 3: It was number eight, It was number eight. It was ridiculous. It was ridiculous. He had just birdied six, seven and eight, and he walked, he walked. I've never seen anybody walk a putt in from I was standing up near the ninth t calling that and I thought when he started walking, I thought he had thought he missed it while he was walking so early, and then it just went boop right in the center of the cup. It is crazy.

00:22:00
Speaker 2: Remember the President's Cup at Royal Belburn when somebody when Tiger made the putt and shook the hand, but then somebody did like the edit that like effectively made it look like he hit the putt and turned and shook the hand and it dropped. It was like that. It was honestly, it looked like it was like a fake putt.

00:22:19
Speaker 1: What he made it?

00:22:21
Speaker 3: Do you know who Tiger beat in that match that he made that putt? You answer that answer? Yeah, of course? Why am I? Why am I questioning you? Mandy?

00:22:33
Speaker 2: That was an amazing tournament, uh, that president like President's Cup at at Royal Melbourne. I think, like you know, we I want to talk a little bit more about some of the Europeans, but maybe well, you know, through line here is.

00:22:46
Speaker 1: The course set up, you know, like.

00:22:50
Speaker 2: That course was set up so well in the sense of the firmness, like it was short obviously, but the firmness that Australian golf can present created very interesting strategic dilemmas and like preferred areas in a match play setting and where you know, if you hit it in the fairway, it wasn't necessarily always the best place in the fairway because of the golf course architecture, and then also the presentation in terms of the firmness. I think we saw like the complete polar opposite of that set up this week where it was it was kind of like mind boggling. How I've never I don't think i've ever seen a golf course where, you know, between the rain which softened the greens, and then the no rough where there was And obviously I think beth Page's big flaw is the greens. They are very benign, they're boring, and not only the greens, but around the greens. If you miss the greens around around the greens, if they aren't firm, it's super easy up and down. It was golf without any consequences. It didn't matter where you missed, it didn't matter if you if you short side yourself. It was why I've never seen looking at these shots, like how many what would be hard up and downs if the greens were firm, turned into very simple up and downs.

00:24:13
Speaker 1: But I thought that did reduce the tournament a little bit.

00:24:19
Speaker 3: Well, why go to beth Page if you're gonna set it up that way. Beth Page is a brutally difficult test. And and and Wednesday before we had the rain on Thursday. The greens were firm, they were bouncing, they were fast. We didn't have that much rain Thursday for them to stay soft all week long. I'm convinced somebody was out there putting water on the greens and I just don't know why. I don't know why. The fairways were they'd like ball in hand every single session, every single session you were there. Do we have that much rain Thursday? There's no I've never I've never seen it. We did, There's no chance.

00:24:55
Speaker 1: So everything got everything.

00:24:57
Speaker 2: All my comparisons for for a wet golf course, well, now always go to Oakmont from this year, and well we saw Oakmah where it was you know, we jokingly called it muddy Mont at one point, where it's just mud and and the ball. You know, you think about like that US Open and them and them playing the ball down versus this Ryder Cup where it was played up, and I couldn't believe how the greens and I think, I don't you know, I don't know what they did with them, but it was like alarming house. Even Kegan is in the team press conference, was like, I just don't understand why they were still so soft, you know.

00:25:43
Speaker 3: I think I'm convinced that Europe went out and flooded him every night. I mean they they may have gone out there and hand watered every green. They had a guy out there doing it, because there was there there there was, there's no I've played Best Page fifteen twenty five times, there's I've never seeing those greens act like that, And you're spot on. The greens are benign, they're flat, they're pretty easy to put with a few exceptions like fifteen's great. But it was. It was mind boggling how soft it was and how brutal the setup was, and all the local people out there they were, they were, they were furious at how easy and how like they're like, this is the golf course. I know, I played this place on a normal Wednesday. It's harder than these guys are playing. So I think it was a whiff on the course set up. Whoever, whoever that is, sorry if it's Keegan, Sorry Keegan, y'all missed. They missed that setup because like, you gave away any advantage you had.

00:26:37
Speaker 2: I asked Keegan in the team press conference about setup, like what why they went with the no rough? Was it a data thing or was it something that he chose to do. He didn't, he wouldn't throw anybody under the bus necessarily, but he says he said he wished he would have gone with his intuition, which I I asked to follow up, was it, you know, was the data telling you if you said intuition?

00:27:03
Speaker 3: Was that?

00:27:03
Speaker 2: He gave me a non answer on that, But like to me, it seems like the data to me what I got reading between the lines, the data told them their data, which, like I think one of the things that's crazy about the Ryder Cup right now is the data conversation. And obviously this a lot of the stems from Europe having a complete data whiz in Dodo Molinari, who has orchestrated a lot of these great pairings and been a huge support for Luke Donald, someone to lean on for Luke Donald. But with the American side, it seemed, you know, and I think like data's fickle, like it data requires interpretation because you can take data and you can figure out way out a way to twist into whatever you want it to be. And I think, like what's interesting is is if the data told them to to to cut the rough down with their team makeup versus Europe. It feels like that was a bad interpretation of data.

00:28:06
Speaker 3: And another thing. So Brandle went off on this on live from Hairris English and Colin Wricowa. Of the one hundred and thirty two possible two man team pairings, Colin Morcaw and Haris English were one hundred and thirty two. They were the worst possible duo in alternate shot, and he not only sent him out once, but he sent him out the next day because they wanted to go back out. I just don't think that's a mistake. And Harris is like, Harris is one of my greatest friends out there. It's nothing to do with him. It's just Europe's one step ahead, always maybe five steps ahead when it comes to data. Like if the data you're using is telling you that it's okay to put those guys out there together, then you need to find a new data guy. And if the data is telling you to shave the rough down when the European team is actually averaging the same distance as US and hits less fair way is if the data is telling you that you need to find a new data guy. And I think they use a company and they've been using them for a few years and it's time. It's time, Like that's step one, and how to fix this thing is to get rid of those that team of people, whoever it is, you know.

00:29:15
Speaker 2: I was listening to Kegan it felt like they were in like using a dated set of preconceived notions about Europe where it felt like twenty sixteen. They shaved the rough at Hazel Teene and that worked great because they had a huge distance advantage. They were a longer team, and it's like, I think one of the things when you look at from Whistling Straits, like the talking points I I at least was talking about it as a podcaster who doesn't know shit, you know, and has no data the talk. One of the talking points I had was like, look at what how this European team has transformed from Whistling Straits the last time the Americans hosted to now where you could say they're longer than the than the American team, and they have more power, and they went with a setup that would favor a team that has more power high ball hitters. Because like the big thing, especially with the rain that happened, that probably hasn't gotten talked about enough is the rain crippled Colin Morikawa and Russell Henley more than anybody in the field. Because Russell Henley, sure you could look at his driving distance to say it's it's to ninety or whatever. He gets to ninety by optimizing a knuckleball that hits the ground and runs right that that ball is not flying to ninety. That ball's flying to sixty five, you know. And so with how wet, how soft it was, his ball is only going to sixty five. And he's and he's teeing off against Ludwig who's hidden at three hundred yards in the air, and so Scott, he's hitting, hitting from thirty five forty yards behind FITSI and there goes your approach advantage. But anyways, the idea of cutting the rough was like a a dated idea. And then the other thing I heard Keegan say was like, we need our greens to be faster because Americans put faster greens more often than Europeans. And I'm, well, yeah, that was the case when the majority of the European team played on the European Tour. But that entire European team points on the PGA tour full time. They put on the same greens. So you know, these are two overriding, you know, philosophies that they had going into that were just dated.

00:31:42
Speaker 3: Which I think, I think is the ultimate conversation that you and I need to have here, okay, and it's it's the fact that we are so outclassed Captain c Wise and I'm not I'm not knocking Keegan. He was great, His players loved him. Assistant captains everybody said it was great, everybody said everything was well done. Keithan almost won the Tour Championship. Keegan is playing golf at a high level. If it was any other captain, he would have been playing on this Ryder Cup team. Luke Donald has devoted the last two years of his life to this week, and not to mention the fact that he did it for Rome as well in a pinch when Henrik got booted. Luke Donald devoted two years of his life into every little, single detail possible. Keigan's trying to Keingkon's trying to win golf tournaments. And I think the way we choose captains, the way we go about our business. Aie like Jose Mauriofile and Thomas Born are assistant captains and they're out there walking with groups and encouraging groups. And I'm sorry. We have Gary Woodland's an amazing guy, inspirational, Kevin Kisser's never played a Ryder Cup in his life, and Brandt's gonna be the next President's Cup captain. I love Web Simpson. Web Web is my dog. But like they have these old school guys that were successful European yer Cup captains out there talking to him. They have a culture that is so far above the American Ryer Cup culture. It's not even funny. I mean it's it's it makes me sick how great they are compared to how how terrible our culture is. And I don't know how to change it, but something needs to happen.

00:33:19
Speaker 2: I think there's I think Luke Donald is also an outlier captain. Traditionally these captains are just great players, right, and I think Luke Donald is a He got to world number one, and what's unique about how he got to world number one was he was way ahead of his time with how thinking about statistics and how he needed to get there. He knew he was completely disadvantaged off the tee. He obviously for anybody listening that never like that wasn't a golf fan. During Luke Donald's hey day, Luke Donald was short and crooked, the worst common a nation that you can be on the PGA Tour, short and to get to world number one, what he effectively found out was like I have to be extraordinary on approach around the greens and putting, and I can't remember the exact numbers, but he figured if I can do, if I can gain X, y z and these fast as the game I will, I can be a world class player. And that's how he got to number one in the world by like literally working on the margins and creating small advantages for himself within areas of his game that he knew he could thrive. And when you think about that, like the holistic approach that he brings to the game, to his own game, he has taken that same thinking like, Okay, how can I gain these tiny, little actional.

00:35:02
Speaker 1: Added values of advantage over the other team.

00:35:06
Speaker 2: And he talked about it in his press conference about like a small example of changing the sheets on beds, putting nice soaps and this is so silly, it's so ridiculous. Nice soaps in the shower and a door jam to block the light. But like hes his philosophy was like, if our guys get a little bit more sleep, or sleep a little bit better, they will play better. And this is you're talking about, like, you know, if you want to equate it to strokes gained, you're talking about maybe like a point zero zero one stroke that he just gained. But if you do that two hundred times over the course of two years, you have gained a marked advantage over your competition. And I think that's what he's doing.

00:35:58
Speaker 3: But but that that's the structure of the europe. If Live hadn't happened, If Live hadn't happened, Luke Donald may never have been a writer PEP captain.

00:36:08
Speaker 1: But the way it's a great doors moment.

00:36:12
Speaker 3: The way the way that they structure and the way they groom people to become captains, the way they have Paul McGinley and Jose Maria and Thomas Bjorn and all these guys sort of groom these guys. It's the way they all do it. They're the one outlier, I would say it would be Nick Faldo, who I'm gonna I'm gonna bite my tongue on an opinion there. But Nick Faldo got he you know, he he was more like an American captain. I'm gonna do it my way, and it's my way or the highway. And he got crushed by Paul asing Or, who I would say was the most European captain in eight that we've ever had in the most complimentary way. He thought outside the box. He he Luke was talking in a press conference on Saturday or Friday about profiling everybody's personalities and pairing people together. And that's exactly what Paul Aisinger did in two thousand and eight and made these pots like that. Wasn't a great team in two thousand and eight. I mean Boo Weekly. I love him. I played the corn Ferry Tour with him, the PJ Tour with him. I've had plenty of cores lights with Boo Weekly, but like Boo Weekly.

00:37:14
Speaker 2: Played a whole Boo hour segments sometime, I want the boot I want the Boo files. I want all the boot Boo Weekly stories you can get, But it's a podcast.

00:37:26
Speaker 1: Rund the time.

00:37:28
Speaker 3: Those are those are off the record stories, but they're good.

00:37:41
Speaker 1: I didn't need to interrupt you there, but I know the Boo Weekly Eddie Boo weekly.

00:37:45
Speaker 3: But I mean, I'm like, and Boo was a star of that team, and Paul Asiinger like brought that out. And that's what Europe does time and time again, and we don't. We somehow managed to put so much pressure on our top players to where Scottie Scheffler's zero and four going into Sunday singles and it's just it's it's like, it's ridiculous the difference when you look at it, how far and above, how far ahead they are of us. And this is another thing, the President's Cup. And I had an argument with Brendan Deyong about it on radio and we're gonna have another argument tonight on radio about it. The President's Cup is killing the vibe of the US Ryder Cup team, killing these guys are exhausted. Is the longest, hardest week of the year. I mean, you and I are talking about it from covering it. It's the longest week of the year. And we do it every year, and they do it once every other year, and they relish it like it's almost like some of our players in the culture of it is like, oh man, another Ryder Cup. That's going to be a long week. Oh Man, another President's Cup. That's going to be a long week. And they they're like, oh, we we'd pay five hundred thousand dollars to be able to play the Ryder Cup and have this experience. And so I just think our culture going forward needs to change, and now how do we do that. It's for smarter people than me to decide, But our culture needs to change. We need to take a page out of their playbook.

00:39:12
Speaker 1: The President's Cup point is one I hadn't thought of. On the plane.

00:39:17
Speaker 2: I was actually thinking about how it would be cool if every other year, if you had a Europe versus international competition.

00:39:27
Speaker 1: It would be kind of fun. It would be cool.

00:39:32
Speaker 3: So every fourth year you would play like, I don't know how my math is not right.

00:39:39
Speaker 2: I just yeah, the President's Cup, I think is becoming more competitive. I think it's it's you know, it was the issue with the President's Cup was that the tour tried to effectively just copy the Writer Cup instead of just making its own really awesome event that be said next year, I'm excited about the President's Cup.

00:40:02
Speaker 1: Is that Bedaida? I think, of course that's going to turn some heads.

00:40:06
Speaker 3: I can't wait to see it.

00:40:08
Speaker 2: It's delightful, But something that you were talking about was made me think. And and Luke Donald was a star player, Okay, you got to number one in the world, but we've seen this in other sports. The best players don't necessarily make the best coaches. Often it's like the complete opposite where it I have a buddy I used to play pick up basketball with that just wrote a book about the proliferation like this, like mass influx of Division three basketball players in the NBA that are having immense success. And it's these people that weren't super talented that had to go about thinking about the game differently and more deeply to get the success that they got. And you know, that's kind of the overall thesis. And part of me wonders, like when you start to look at Ryder Cup captaincy is a big job in Keegan's case, and I think he was put in a tough position because he's still an active player that was trying to play this way on the team. But like, I think, you need to have somebody that thinks thinks about the sport at an ultra elite level, and that's different than somebody that plays the sport at an ultra elite level, and there are unicorns that do both. There are unicorns that play at an ultra elite level and think the game about the game at an ultra elite level. But to me, the thing that has to shift with Ryder Cup Captain, especially on the US side, is the idea that if somebody wins a major, that makes them a Ryder Cup Captain. Let's sit down and have a real golf talk about golf and like the nitty gritty of golf before we just give somebody the Ryder Cup captaincy. And I'm not going to single out anybody, but I think if you go through the archives of the history of the US blunders in recent years, there are just decisions like you know what, like we're we're gonna put you know, the KVV just the shot gonna start. The other day, Hal Sutton said, you know, they could be good for the golf world to see Tiger and Phil play together. I think it could be good for the golf world, not anything like there's all this equipment, they don't get along, and like that was the thought process you saw, like what happened with Zach a couple of years ago, which there are a number of things, But I think the prerequisite shouldn't be an elite playing career. If you can get the elite playing career with the elite golf mind, great, But if you can't get that, which is you know, there's only a small number of those get the elite golf mind in there, because they're going to pour over this stuff, especially if they are an elite player, because this is gonna be a big deal for them.

00:43:07
Speaker 3: So I'm just gonna to to to echo what you're saying. Our next President's Cup captain, Brant Snedeker is an elite golf mind. He's elite golf mind. He was the first one I knew that hired a stats Guy's name is Mark Horton and Hortsey and and Brandt was like playing practice rounds. We played practice rounds all the time together, and he's like ripping three wood from two ninety on a par five, hitting it in the rough, and I'm like, why didn't you just lay that up? He's like, well, my guy says, I've got a better chance with my short game on this whole. If I can miss it to this spot, then I've got a better chance of getting up and down. And I think I think Sned's, I think Sned's is going to be an excellent captain and I hope at some point he gets the Ryder Cup captaincy because he will and it's he's he's he may not say it, but he's he's not going to ever make another Ryder Cup or President's Cup team. And that's what you need. Someone that's close to the game, that's still playing a little bit, but knows they have no chance of ever making another team, so they can pour all of their time into it like Luke Donald's done. And I just think I want to go back to the President's CP thing a little bit. Do you remember when the President's Cup started? You know what year I.

00:44:20
Speaker 1: Would have been, ninety one, maybe ninety two.

00:44:26
Speaker 3: Nineteen ninety four. Do you remember nineteen ninety four? Do you remember the last time we won an away Ryder Cup.

00:44:36
Speaker 2: The last time we won an away Ryder Cup would be god, now I'm blanket.

00:44:42
Speaker 1: It would be two thousand.

00:44:46
Speaker 3: Nope, no, nine, Oh my god. So nineteen ninety three was that we wanted the Belfry the last Ryder Cup we.

00:44:54
Speaker 1: Won win incredible Ada.

00:44:56
Speaker 3: Actually, okay, so President's Cup comes in in nineteen ninety four, don't look it up just off the top of your head. Starting in nineteen ninety five, do you know what the US Ryder Cup record is wins and losses from ninety five to this year.

00:45:10
Speaker 2: It's got to be like probably four or three or four below five hundred because they've won three or four away Ryder Cups in that time.

00:45:19
Speaker 3: All right, So there's been fifteen Ryder Cups in that time thirty years, and we are four and eleven. We are four and eleven in the Ryder Cup since nineteen ninety five, and I just I think, I just I want Look, I'm not trying to piss people off here, and I'm not saying the President's Cup has to go away. I just think that we need because we care. We care about the Ryder Cup. We care just as much as these Europeans do. But it's time to like put it in the forefront and focus on it. And who find somebody, find somebody. And John Wood was a team manager this year. I think John Wood has caddied in fourteen Ryder Cups and he's great on NBC's good Caddy, He's really good. They thought that was going to be the position that was really gonna carry him to the inside.

00:46:07
Speaker 1: I've got a lot of questions about that.

00:46:09
Speaker 2: Was interested in a little less.

00:46:14
Speaker 3: We need somebody that is a Ryder Cup. We need somebody to devote their time. And like Paul Aisinger man, I'm telling you, like the whole Paul Aisier thing, how he's not a part of every team since eight How these guys aren't being like, hey, Paul, can you come be a part of our team. It's it's like we're we we we were getting this so backwards and we are it's not getting it's not getting closer. As a competition, Europe is starting to be a dominant force and with the youth, and they just lost a generation of captains as well with Live Maybe they'll come back and be captains. But it doesn't matter. I mean, yeah, it's I just I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm such a loss. After experiencing my first Ryder Cup, I'm acting like I'm an expert. After experiencing my first Ryder Cup and seeing it from this whole perspective, I'm blown away with how much better they are at every different level. Okay, another one. I'm sorry if I'm talking too much.

00:47:14
Speaker 2: They can't podcast, so you're you're you're a guest, so I don't have to tell they came over.

00:47:20
Speaker 3: They came over last week and played Monday Tuesday, and Luke Donald said, Hey, we've got a house in the Hampton's, We've got a probably a condo in Manhattan. Just don't leave the East Coast, spend the next five days here. And they went and played Shinnecock and and and.

00:47:36
Speaker 1: The national component, which is.

00:47:41
Speaker 3: Go get ahead of the next year's PGA, Like I kind of knew York was gonna win then, and then this just the opening ceremony speech. It's all about us and what we play for. And I mean it's just he's he has been a step ahead for four years. And I don't see who's going to change that from our perspective unless we like just cut it off Tiger, get us to win in Ireland and then let's like let's rebrand ourselves.

00:48:13
Speaker 1: I think a there's a lot to chew on here.

00:48:17
Speaker 2: I think one of the things I just want to reiterate, having been at the Whistling Straits Ryder Cup, is that what has happened in four years is unfathomable.

00:48:32
Speaker 1: How we felt leaving whistling straits. In terms of this.

00:48:37
Speaker 2: Team Europe, the conversation was Europe may never win again.

00:48:43
Speaker 1: This year.

00:48:44
Speaker 2: This American team is so good and then the thing, the whole thing got spun completely complete, like one eighty on its head and all of a sudden, now it's like, I don't you know, US has to go win away Ryer Cup or they'll they'll not They'll be going on eight years when it comes back of not holding the cup.

00:49:07
Speaker 1: If they lose again at Hazel team and you.

00:49:11
Speaker 2: Start to that that develops scars issue. But I think the biggest thing with Europe is that they have established such trust across generations with their players and they have such a nice mix and connections. You know, you talked about the captains like having Jose Maria be it be this thread all the way to Sevy and when the Ryder Cup, the era of Ryder Cup, when that it became this competition that it is today, was because of those European players, and the thread goes all the way down and then this year that that last player thread is Justin Rose who said after after the Ryder Cup he's going to try and play again. And you know, I think if he if he's close, he's going to get the call on it. But it goes from Justin Rose, who played with all those great that the great era of Ian Poulter and Lee Westwood and Sergio down to now you've got Rory. That's a bridge to Rom, and Rom's a bridge to Ludwig. And anybody knew that comes in Ludwig is probably going to be there for fifteen years, him and Hovelin and they're connected all the way.

00:50:26
Speaker 1: Up to through this whole thing.

00:50:29
Speaker 2: And it's like you look at the US thing and it's you know, I you know a couple people like Zinger's not not involved. DL three I think was not really super involved, Like those are probably two of the more successful, like people like to dog DL three, but he had you know, it was a miraculous comeback in Madonna, right and he had them right where he wanted them. And I think like that's the thing, like there is no trust because they haven't built in the the history and that that I that runs through the whole thing. And you know, listen to the President's cup point. I hadn't ever thought about it. It's it's it's a fascinating point.

00:51:11
Speaker 3: I mean, we're we're four and eleven in Ryder Cups since the President's Cup started. You're telling me that that has nothing to do with it. I would I would argue the data says my rudimentary data, would argue that that President's Cup has had an effect on our Ryder Cup team, and good or bad. I mean, you know, I think it's a lot. I think it's I'm not arguing for a pay for play, but I think it's much easier to have this stance that the Europeans have when they do it every other year. And you know, I think we should. I like your idea of having europe play. They won't do it. They would never The European team would never play the President's Cup because they know they they probably when it was announced that there was going to be a Cup every year for the US, they were liked, this is our time, this is our time. They're never going to get us now, and like, but we should have. We should have like Luke Clayton and and and Nick Dunlap, like we need to take some risks on some captain's picks in Chicago next years.

00:52:14
Speaker 1: That should be where you developed.

00:52:16
Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. Let's let's use it to our advantage. But it's having the PGA Tour run the President's Cup and the PGA of America to the Ryder Cup. I don't think there's a lot of synergy, like we could use that tournament to our advantage and we are clearly clearly not. It's more of like we got to do this again, we got to do this again, and they're like, i'd pay, I'd pay to play like that. That's that's the cultural differences.

00:52:42
Speaker 2: I think something I was about to ask you before you said that, before you remarked about the Tour and the PGA of America not having synergy, something I was going to about to ask you is do you think that the American team would have a better shot if the PGA Tour managed that the team for the Ryder Cup.

00:53:08
Speaker 3: And I'm a fan of PGA of America. I think Kerry Haig is is incredible. He's a little briskly at times, but especially when you when you drive a golf cart off of a cart path. But I love Carry Haig. I think he's amazing. But yeah, I think having the synergy if the same people ran both of them from our side, we would be dominating in my opinion, And I'm not saying that the PGA Tour is necessarily the right right people to do it, but there needs to be some there needs to be some common ground on that.

00:53:38
Speaker 2: I got this from someone who runs a major sports franchise front office this weekend. He said, the PGA of America needs to have a real coaching staff, analytics team, and operations staff locked in for every Ryder Cup and then just let an honorary captain wave his hat like he like the Queen of England. This is like USA basketball having Kyle Lowry coached the team and then two years later just giving a turn to PJ.

00:54:10
Speaker 3: Tucker.

00:54:11
Speaker 2: And I think it's similar like USA basketball went through like he bringing up USA basketball, they went through like a crisis in the early two thousands with those losses in FIBA in the Olympics, and they were like, what's going on? And they with with Colangelo, they completely like rebuilt the whole.

00:54:33
Speaker 1: Structure of USA basketball.

00:54:36
Speaker 2: And part of me, I don't have I'm going to put my hand up. I know you've played on the tour. I don't have a lot of faith in the PGA Tour at all, But I do believe that if the PGA Tour had a team that managed the President's Cup and the Ryder Cup, that they would be way more prepared than the PGA of America, which is an organ Let's be clear at PGA of America, this is a common misconception of the PGA Tour are not the same. But the PJA of America is supposed to manage the thirty one thousand club professionals around the country, and they just happened to be sitting on two of the biggest golf tournament properties. That they are not affiliated really with professional golf in the sense of playing golf for money. They are affiliated with teaching the game, and here they are running these two tournaments that are you know, like, I just don't think they and I don't know if the PGA Tour is the right people that put this task force together. I've seen what their design services team does the golf courses, and I don't want I wouldn't let them, you know, ever step foot.

00:55:49
Speaker 1: On one of my properties if I own golf courses.

00:55:52
Speaker 2: And so from that sense, like, I don't know if they're right, but I know I do believe this that if you may manage to this like a like a franchise, like a sports team, you would have immense success compared to what you're doing right now where this in this time around, Kegan Bradley is trying, like playing his ass off to try and qualify on points so he can play on the team that he's also the captain.

00:56:21
Speaker 1: And if you're trying.

00:56:22
Speaker 2: To be a top ten player in the world, there's no way you're going to be a top ten all time captain for the USA.

00:56:32
Speaker 3: Preach Andy Well said. And I'm just gonna add just a touch of color to what you said, because I said this last night. We're sitting in the hotel bar watching Sunday Night football. It was Green Bay and Dallas a good game, and I made it was a good game. I made the comment. I said, the PGA of America manages the Ryder Cup like the Jones family manages the Dallas Cowboys.

00:56:59
Speaker 2: All right, sorry, sorry to all the Cowboy fans. I don't really feel bad about the Cowboy fans though.

00:57:05
Speaker 3: I'm a Cowboy. I grew up in Texas. I'm from Amarillo. I grew up a Cowboys fan. I'm now transitioned to a Panther fan, and that was Thanksgiving Day twenty fifteen when Panthers beat the Cowboys. I'm a Panther fan, but it's the truth. They've had plenty of stars, they've had plenty of time, plenty of their biggest game of the beginning of the year. They've dealt their star to the Green Bay Packers, and he's coming back to Dallas to kick your butt. Like I don't like, what what what are we doing here? What? What are we doing? So anyway, I think that'd be like.

00:57:38
Speaker 2: If if Scottie Scheffler switched citizenship to England and it was playing next year. I'm a in two years out of the European Ryder Cup team.

00:57:52
Speaker 3: The PGA of America was so impressed by Justin Rose that they're I think they're trading Scotti Scheffler to Europe for Justin for a forty seven year old Justin Rose for the next Rider Cup. That's that kind of move.

00:58:05
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe maybe Rosie Rosie's this This leads us into my next question. If you're the US, where do you go from here? It seems like you really like Branson Ediker, who would you You know, they're gonna have to point a captain pretty soon, like this is right around the corner.

00:58:23
Speaker 3: I like Brandt, I like Web, I like Web Simpson a lot. I don't know why Tiger didn't do best page. I've I've heard rumors that I'm not going to bring up. I've heard I don't like you, possibly.

00:58:36
Speaker 2: But I don't think the PGA is speaking of of issues with the PGA managing.

00:58:42
Speaker 1: This is the.

00:58:43
Speaker 2: PGA gonna let the one Tiger captaincy happen abroad.

00:58:51
Speaker 3: I see that this is the problem. I don't think they have a choice. I think he would way rather go abroad and be the first captain to win on foreign so since nineteen ninety three. Then he would have been a home captain where he's supposed to win. I mean, so, I think OD the obvious answer is, we need, we need Tiger. I think Tiger will be a great captain. Let's face it, He's got the time to devote, He's got the team in place to get the right data. He could he We need, we need, we need Tiger. And beyond that, I think we're I think we're looking at a great lineage. I think we're in a better spot than Europe. Honestly, if we're looking ten years down the line with Ricky Faller, Justin Thomas Jordan Speed like we got some really good captains coming up for the future. But we're in this We're in this void that Tiger left, that live left that we're we're in this void right now, and I think we desperately need Tiger to be the captain next time.

00:59:47
Speaker 1: I'm surprised he didn't put DJ in the in the captains.

00:59:59
Speaker 3: I mean, I think, actually, I think Dustin would. I think Dustin would be a decent captain. I think Dustin would be Yo, guys, let's go out there, let's just beat him.

01:00:09
Speaker 1: I honestly don't think he would be that bad.

01:00:13
Speaker 3: It would be great. He'd be a great I.

01:00:15
Speaker 2: Think the thing about DJ, I think he knows what he knows, and he probably would get out of the way of people that knew that were doing other things that I think he'd be a hands off manager that kind of just that said, if this is what you think, I honestly, the way the US has wrapped themselves into pretzels, I think there are like probably twenty worse choices than DJ.

01:00:45
Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you one thing, he wouldn't overthink it, that's for sure.

01:00:50
Speaker 2: That's the thing he wouldn't be making an maybe maybe it would make some last minute decisions, but but yeah, I I I would agree. I think Tiger would be a good captain. I think like if you think about Tiger, he was this he was He had sublime skills, I mean other worldly talents.

01:01:15
Speaker 1: But one of the talents that is unmeasurable.

01:01:20
Speaker 2: And probably doesn't get enough credit, is the way I mean he brought a level of course strategy and tactician.

01:01:27
Speaker 1: He was a tactician that was way ahead.

01:01:29
Speaker 2: Of his time with how he played golf courses, how he thought about him And I think like Tiger, as you said, has the time. He he seems pretty maniacal about little details. If you have followed his career, and I think like he would he would bring a culture. And I think the other thing that he would do is players would be like inspired.

01:01:56
Speaker 1: You just talked about like.

01:01:58
Speaker 2: The impact of the President's Cup, but like the President's Cup in the Ryder Cup and saying like these guys like it's hard to get up, Like that's one they're gonna get up for.

01:02:09
Speaker 3: He would be amazing if you if you couldn't like I mean, look, these guys went and played for Kegan. I'm not I'm not saying that they were up for this one. They're always up for it. They are always up for it. But a Tiger Woods captaincy on foreign soil. We are not going to go back to the next Ryder Cup without this cup. This is our cup. We're doing it for Tiger, and I think Tiger wouldn't. I think it would just be ridiculous.

01:02:36
Speaker 1: If you're Europe, what are you doing?

01:02:41
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously everybody keeps throwing that Luke Donald thing out. I don't know why he would do it again. I think it's taken a ton out of him. It's he's devoted his last three three years of his life to this. I think it's Francesco Mullinari. Personally. I think Justin Rose can still play on that team. So I think I think Francesco would be would be the next logical captain. He's been a part of these last two teams. He played and obviously he played. Did he play in twenty one? He would have played.

01:03:09
Speaker 1: He played in nineteen. I don't think he played in eight or eighteen.

01:03:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, eighteen eighteen in France, that was the Molly Wood. But I just think I think Francesco is like I think he's the guy. He's got the Eduardo. It's it's like you said, the thread. He's been Luke's like right hand these last two Ryder Cups. He got his brother who's the stats guy. It's just symmetry and it's just going to rinse and repeat, and I think Francesco is going to be amazing and he'll put his own stamp on it.

01:03:41
Speaker 2: I just worry about his relationship with Ted Scott. After the hostage video yesterday came out.

01:03:49
Speaker 3: I just saw that right before we're doing this. I just I'm here with Francesco Molinari.

01:03:56
Speaker 1: What was that situation like? Were you just can fused?

01:04:02
Speaker 3: I was confused. I had seen it happen on eight where Justin had backed off Greg bode Iron.

01:04:08
Speaker 1: That was right before he walked his puddon.

01:04:11
Speaker 3: So right before he walked the putt and he backed him off there. And then on fifteen I didn't see what happened because there was a guy in the crowd Justin Rose was doing that. This is the best comment I heard from fans all week. Justin Rose is doing his aame point. He's got two fingers out like this, and someone in the crowd said I need three fingers, justin three fingers, and I was like, that's amazing. So I turned around to look at see if I could spot the guy, just because I wanted to go be his friend. And I as I turned back around, he had already backed off bote Iron and I didn't. I didn't see. I didn't. I didn't see it take place. So yeah, and then walking up, I didn't know what was going on. Yeah. Wild.

01:04:52
Speaker 1: You probably were getting ahead right because you get.

01:04:54
Speaker 3: I was trying to but there was a thousand people. There's a thousand people inside the ropes.

01:04:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, the inside the ropes was a wild place to be.

01:05:06
Speaker 3: Yeah.

01:05:07
Speaker 1: Speaking of the PGA of.

01:05:08
Speaker 3: America, yeah, yeah, one arms length.

01:05:14
Speaker 1: The uh I you know.

01:05:16
Speaker 2: With with Europe, I think one big question is do the likes of Poulter Westwood and Garcia ever get work back in If you're if you're running Ryder Cup Europe, are you are you extending the olive branch and working those players back into your system over time? Obviously we saw the success of rom and Hattan, both lived players this year in there.

01:05:45
Speaker 3: I mean, I have no problem with it. It's it's I think it would be up to the people. It would be up to the players. Did those guys did those guys did the current players feel like those captains? And Henrik in particular, like when he left, he basically gave the middle finger to the Ryder Cup, is what he did, And I like, that's how I feel about those guys that they you left, you gave the middle finger to the Ryder Cup. And I personally think west Woods missed his chance. I think Sergio has missed his chance and handed and handled things so poorly. I think Poulter probably the same. You don't. They don't need him. I think they'd be nice to have, But I think when they made the decision to go to live, they gave up any option of having a Ryder Cup captaincy. In my opinion, now I would have no problem if they got it. But that's that's where I would stand as a player, that that's that's kind of my You can't. It's a it's a total have your cake and eat it too moment, Like you can take the money and go, or you could be immortal and be a Ryder Cup captain and they chose the money and you can't have both.

01:06:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see the pr campaign coming from Ian Poulter. It probably also correlates with his kid rising the ranks of amateur golf and you know, probably seeing maybe maybe someday he's playing in one of these and I'd like to be, you know, not persona non grata.

01:07:11
Speaker 3: Well, he's gonna be a future rangegoat was what I'm hearing. He's gonna he's range gooats are really there's they're scouting him hard.

01:07:19
Speaker 1: You're breaking news here the range Coats. I'm making moves.

01:07:26
Speaker 2: I'm sitting on some big Boston common news right now that I've been just waiting for the Ryder Cup to stop, to break. But you know, so that you got to stay tuned for that later this weeks. Yeah, the ballfrogs making moves this offseason. Uh, you eliminated the fan behavior. This became an undertone. Maybe not an undertone. This became a big story of the event. The I would say that, you know, there was a lot in the lead up. This is gonna be the biggest, the loudest Ryder Cup ever. I don't necessarily know if it was the loudest, but it did have the most bad actors that I've ever seen at a golf event and you were inside the ropes. What and as a former player, what were your thoughts on on the fan behavior and and what you witness this weekend a best paid.

01:08:22
Speaker 3: Flag mean you said that there were there, there were there were isolated bad actors. I felt like I felt like it was Friday afternoon. I was with Rory and I mean I was with Fleetwood and Rose again, and the comments I heard were just they were they were they were personal, they were vulgar. There's no need for provanity, like there's kids out there like I mean, like what what what are we doing? And I just think we hold the Ryder Cup to this level like it's maybe the best tournament of the year when it happens every two years. I mean, the Masters is so incredible, and all the Majors are incredible, but we hold this Ryder Cup up to such a high standard and it's not the waste Management Phoenix Open and that and that's what That's what it felt like to me. It felt like we were you were inside sixteen at the Coliseum at the WM Phoenix Open, on every single shot, on every single hole, and it was it was disgraceful. It was disgusting. I look forward to seeing all of the European players and apologizing to them for our fans behavior. It was. It was gross. I mean not not only that, but like like there was people was throwing trash everywhere out on the golf course. Someone threw a drink at at Rory and it hit his wife, Like I mean, there was no decency golf. Golf is I view golf in a way of of that is very traditional and and this was it was disgusting. It was disgusting the fan behavior, but but not not on the whole. It was just the isolated actors.

01:09:56
Speaker 2: That's That's the thing. Golf has, those moments of silence that allow for anybody's voice to be heard if they wanted to be heard. And I think, like, I don't. I don't want to sound like a pearl clutchy hair. I've I've been a season ticket holder of the Bulls when I was living in Chicago. I've I've yelled, I've booed people. But the things that I heard people saying are just like a human decency like level, Like I wouldn't I wouldn't say that to somebody that like I I just like I couldn't fathom saying that to anyone, and it was just flying every hole multiple times, and I just, I think, like resoundingly felt embarrassed. I've I was embarrassed about being there and being American, and like to me, I don't think I've ever felt that way in where like I felt so bad for the Europeans and their families, like more so, like that was like the other thing is like of all the tournaments, like you don't see this is the only tournament that you're going to see the player's family members inside the ropes, and to have these things being said about about their family members, not just them, their family members was just utterly despicable and and I think, like I this is not meant.

01:11:34
Speaker 1: To be like a PGA roast session. But like frankly, it was encouraged and the lead up like there needed to be. There needs to be before.

01:11:46
Speaker 2: The next American Ryder Cup, and I'm sure it'll be a talking point of the of a dear manner. There needs to be a real like understanding of like what's okay and what's not okay. And like, honestly, I you know, like I got to the point where I was like contemplating yelling at some of these guys as some of these people that were saying the things like I was getting like enraged about like what was happening, you know, And it's like to certain it there just has to be an understanding of what is acceptable. And to me it like especially they get tuned up in the afternoon, and like I if I was going to a golf tournament as a fan, I'd begin tuned up, okay, Like I'd be doing the same thing, but I wouldn't be like have have some respect for the competition. And I think, like the other issue is that you're charging one thousand dollars and if I'm if it's four o'clock, I don't care if I'm getting kicked out, I'm never coming back, you know. Like is the other aspect of this and why it happened is that you know, why doesn't happen at a tournament like the Masters is because you have the fear of God of your badges being revoked. Like if you're there's a zero tolerance part of policy, and you're you're on somebody's ticket and if you misbehave, that person's ticket is gone. And to me like that there's there has to be some implication. Like I watched a video of of with Rory and I'm not going to repeat it, but you can find it on my Twitter. But like I was watching it and I was like, if this happened in a public setting, you could get arrested for like yeah, for like you can't talk to people like that, and they're just doing it. Like there's thousands of occurrences of it. This weekend at Bethpage Black, I just.

01:13:46
Speaker 3: Had to do my annual HR training for NBC, and you know, I learned a lot obviously, and like a lot of these people should be should be I mean, they would be immediately fired from their job, like you said, arrested, immediately fired from your job, like we need to. I mean, I don't know, I'm not calling for these people to be put on have their faces put on online and just be crushed. But like it's it's it's sick and and and and golf is better than that, and New York is better than that, And beth Page is one of my favorite places. I've spent the night in that parking lot eight times when I was in high school in college to go and to go play that first tea time. That was not what Beth Page, New York and the USA is about. And it's it's gross and and and I think it's this new culture that needs to get out of the game of golf. But it's okay to say that kind of thing. Yeah, poor, poor, poor and and by the way, I can't believe he didn't physically just kick the crap out of some some of those people, Like, I mean, if he if he gets any if he gets any blowback for saying the things he said back to the crowd, like I'm sorry, Uh, if you were walking out there for five hours for three straight days, for five and had to hear had to have ten hours, had to hear what he had to hear for for those three days, I'm actually like impressed that it didn't get worse.

01:15:25
Speaker 2: Well, people are mad at him because he put the European flag over Bryson to Shambo's name, So you know, I would I would like to actually suggest that the cross section of the people yelling and and that are are upset about that is probably like there's a lot of overlap.

01:15:42
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, I I don't know, you hit it.

01:15:46
Speaker 2: It's such it was such a small percentage of the fans, but it's always the vocal minority that's the loudest and leaves the lasting in print. And it was it was a sad I thought it was. It was kind of a sad moment for American golf this weekend. Uh And like, yeah, so I hope, I hope things change. I think that there has to be some sort of uh policy or something moving forward.

01:16:16
Speaker 1: With this stuff. I don't but I don't know what it is.

01:16:19
Speaker 2: Like it's you know, what I noticed is like the yells came from eight rows deep right where they could scurry away, you know, and that you know, that's that's like, I don't know. With the way it played over, Yeah, yeah, it sucks.

01:16:35
Speaker 1: I it's it was.

01:16:37
Speaker 2: It was a dark stain kind of on a on a otherwise what would have been like a thrilling Sunday.

01:16:45
Speaker 1: It kind of hung over. And I think like the thing that is that it certainly affected the Americans too.

01:16:55
Speaker 3: I mean they're they're justin Thomas, all these guys are trying to quiet the crowd. I mean it's just they had we felt that way. You and I both felt the same way. You said you were embarrassed to be an American because of the behavior. You think those players weren't as well, Like, I mean, there's none of our American players are encouraging that kind of stuff. It's uh, it was just shocking. And yeah, I thought that. I thought the fan experience as a whole, uh was probably pretty pretty pretty poor at beth Page, I mean the Ryder Cup. I've been to a President's Cup as a spectator at Quail and Charlotte, and like, it's it's not a it's not a great tournament to go watch. I mean you sit, you sit and wait at a spot and watch four groups come through, and then you hope to go find one other spot to watch four groups come through. And I think a lot of it probably is the frustration of the fans sitting out there for hours just hoping to, you know, may see one golf shot. And I think that probably has something to do with the behavior as well.

01:17:56
Speaker 2: I got to ask you, is there any worse Is there any worst way of them than playing a match against someone and feeling bad for him, like for your own performance.

01:18:08
Speaker 3: No, I mean I can't no, I can't imagine.

01:18:12
Speaker 2: I mean, right, like, this is the worst mind set to be in if you're playing somebody in a match, Like if you think about it from like the just the pure competitiveness of like, it might have had a more of effect on American players than the Europeans, because like the Europeans were probably like, you know, screw these guys, Like I'm gonna play really, it's gonna make me focus more. The Americans probably just felt bad, and it's like, that's the worst way to feel if you're playing a match against someone.

01:18:40
Speaker 3: It's so it's I didn't think of it that way, but you're exactly right, the worst possible way to feel.

01:18:55
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01:20:48
Speaker 1: Mine might be fans. But what's your lasting moment?

01:20:55
Speaker 3: I was, I was out there last night. I was gonna recreate Russ Henley's bunker shot on eighteen for Live from and I got out there. It was incredible. It was incredible, and they got too dark. There was too many State troopers on the green. A guy got bumped and just went to the set. I was standing out there when they were getting the trophy and the way they were, like the crowd was packed with European fans and the big grand stand and watching them like they're holding the trophy around. They'd bring it down and that would inspire the tone of the crowd and then they lift it and they go oh and watching them do it, and every single player got to do it or did it not that they got to. I just my lasting moment was that visual of how connected that team is and how connected their fans are. To another point, like, there were people in the TV compound that are Americans that I work with that were rooting for the European team. Now I know there's a lot of them Americans that root for the European team. Do you think there's any Europeans that root for the American team.

01:22:04
Speaker 1: Hand up.

01:22:05
Speaker 3: I know, I know, I love I love them, But do you think there do you think there's any Europeans that root for the American team, Like that's another thing. That's another thing. They're absolutely not. And so we have Americans rooting for europe because of their culture, because of their team, and I like, i'm i'm I'm calling for a change in the American Ryder Cup. Set up an American team golf going forward, just because we can't. We can't have that. I want let's sign some monographs on a Tuesday Wednesday practice round. Let's let's let's talk to the fans, let's engage, let's be decent.

01:22:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with with all those things. I My lasting moment, uh will be the I the Can't lay on Friday, the can't Lay.

01:22:52
Speaker 1: Burns versus Rory Fleetwood match.

01:22:55
Speaker 2: And I thought, coming down the stretch and you could pick, you could pick a number of you could pick the match you followed on Saturday with with Bryson and Scottie and Justin Rose and Fleetwood, but you know, just encapsulated. I felt like those those two matches, in particular, the Ryder Cup and just the level of play you see. And I think, like what makes this event so captivating is that you have these just like incredible high leverage, edge of your seat moments as a spectator when you're watching and you're you're seeing these guys like effectively play like seventy second hole pressure from the from the first tee, and that's what makes this event incredible. And then you see these unbelievably talented golfers, Patrick Cantley and Rory in that match, We're just trading like fifteen to twenty footers down the stretch and I just like I just was sitting there. It's like, this is unbelievable watching these guys pour these putts in that have make percentage of ten.

01:23:57
Speaker 1: And you could see that both of that.

01:23:58
Speaker 2: I mean, like those guys don't I don't think they don't exchange Christmas cards. They both wanted it so bad. And you see you see these guys crack and you saw Can't like crack on eighteen with the web shot there hit probably one of the worst shots of his career. You know, the Europeans weren't able to make the birdie putt, but you just see and you get watch these guys when they get done with these matches, and the look on their faces is the is what you see on major championship Sundays, and it's why the sport desperately needs more match play, high level, high stakes match play in it because it's easy for fans to understand. I think that's one of the reasons the Ryder Cup is so popular. It captivates like the general sports world because it's approachable. It's easy to understand. It's USA versus Europe and they play these matches and it's mono imano and match play. Like I know, it delivers like maybe stinky Sundays occasionally, but it delivers a far better product from Thursday till Saturday, and I just I want to see of it. And it's because I could have pick out you could pick out a dozen matches from this this event that if you just watch, the match would be more entertaining than Sunday at at the twelve best PGA Tour events.

01:25:16
Speaker 3: Of the year, You're spot on. That's why the playoffs should be match play, but they won't do it because it could potentially not give them good ratings. I just that's that's different. That's a different podcast.

01:25:30
Speaker 2: Like it's it's to the point, like you, they're worried about one match, So why don't you just play off third place, fifth place, eighth place, and then you have four matches and they have consequence because there's you know, none of these guys want to lose to each other. That's the other thing when you play a match, Like if I play a match, if we went out and played a match tomorrow, you know what I don't want to do.

01:25:54
Speaker 1: I don't want to fucking lose. I'm gonna play. I'm gonna play my ass off.

01:25:58
Speaker 2: If we play stroke play, I'll probably be pre resigned that I'm probably gonna lose to you.

01:26:04
Speaker 3: You know.

01:26:05
Speaker 1: I also I gotta ask I heard you guys.

01:26:10
Speaker 2: You got your Quail team brought in a bunch of ringers to some Charlotte thing and kicked kicked all the regular Joe's asses.

01:26:19
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, you're on the second team for Quail. I'm on the second team. I mean I'm the captain of the team, playing kid.

01:26:30
Speaker 1: They put mackenzie and web out in the A slot.

01:26:35
Speaker 3: You if you say they, you mean me I Web McKenzie has a partner and his name is Jackson Hughes. They're Hughes brothers from another mother. They won the member Member last year. And yes, we ran McKenzie out all three days, but Jackson couldn't play Friday, and I had to you know, I struggled to find a guy to play, and I I got Webbed to fill in the day before he left for the Ryder Cup. I will say I was this turn has been going on for sixty years. Last year was the first time we've won, and then and then this year I did. Harold Warner was set for three days to play, but then he realized it was his anniversary weekend and he couldn't play. But he Harold usually plays next year. I've asked Bill and jay Hawks to come up and be a part of the team. I mean, we got Freddy couples.

01:27:26
Speaker 1: You're gonna kill these the spirit. Maybe you should be the Ryder Cup captain.

01:27:31
Speaker 2: Look at the ruthlessness you're taking taken to Charlotte Golf as a precursor. What I understand, it's like a bunch of Charlotte clubs play some competition and you got insurance brokers that are that are going up against Mackenzie, Hughes and web since in a match.

01:27:48
Speaker 3: So they me and my partner last year at the same golf course at Myers Park where we played on Friday the first round of this match. We shot sixty three on Sunday last year and we won, and so webs like, what you know, what are we supposed to do? And I was like, well, JOHNO and I shot sixty three last year here at Myers Park, so I'm gonna need better than sixty three. And us as we're we're kind of passing carts to dropping clubs off in the car to come back and turn scorecards in. My partner and I JOHNA, we see, we see Mackenzie and Webley, how'd y'all play? And they're like, we played, We played okay, And I said what did you shoot? They said fifty nine And I was just like, oh, we got so much grief for the two of them going out and shooting fifty nine. I mean, but it's worth it, like it's worth it.

01:28:38
Speaker 1: Just just to lacking the everyman it was.

01:28:42
Speaker 3: I tell you what, I had some tough I had some tough calls of guys that have played for us in the past that I just didn't have room for on the team this year, and it was it was tough to it was tough to tell them they were sitting this one out.

01:28:52
Speaker 1: God, you're like Luke Donald. Luke Donald was Charlotte Golf seeing Johnson. Uh love love your coverage I live from and on Live Golf.

01:29:08
Speaker 2: It's been awesome to watch you your career, your post playing career continue to grow. Uh and uh it's been as You're always one of my favorite people to run into at the tournament. Thanks for coming on and uh talking Ryder Cup and uh, we'll see you. We'll see you sometime soon, maybe maybe in the Charlotte area for some golf in the off season.

01:29:30
Speaker 3: I gotta get down well, please please, would love to have you and Andy. I. I love your shows, all of them. Friday a huge fan, so I'm honored anytime he asked me to come on. Buddy.

01:29:51
Speaker 2: All right, Big thanks to Johnson for joining, and big thanks to p J Clark put in long hours on Long Island, you know, big week for PJ with the Bethpage, Bethpage, Ryder Cup. Unfortunately rough go with the Mets, but we're giving them podcasts take us mind off of the late season collapse.

01:30:11
Speaker 1: So big thanks to PJ for editing and producing this.

01:30:14
Speaker 2: Thanks to everybody who joined who participated in our Ryder Cup coverage, whether it was newsletter, shotgun start podcasts.

01:30:23
Speaker 1: Or our written written stuff.

01:30:25
Speaker 2: As a reminder, I'd be remiss if I didn't say this, we have a book, a coffee table book that our pre sale ends on October second, So if you're interested in this, this really helps us figure out how many books to order. That's why we're doing pre sale and then it then it gets delivered before the holidays. So if you're interested in that, go to pro shop dot Thefridagg dot com and check it out there. We have a cool bundle too if you've been on the fence about you know, joining Fridagg Golf Club. Our our membership that gets you the book and the membership, so check that out at proshop dot the fried Egg dot com. Thank you guys all for the support this week. It was It was a really fun week and uh look forward to talk to you next week with another new episode of podcasts

01:31:22
Speaker 3: M