Episode 55: The New World of NIL featuring Michelle Meyer

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[Music][Music] coming to you from the Olympic City Colorado Springs Colorado this is the  USA volleyball show and here are your hosts Clarence Hughes and Stephen Munson [Music] hello and welcome to 2023 and welcome to episode 55 our first episode back of the year of our  first episode of the new year 2023. new year can't speak Stephen how you been 2023 let's go  I don't know how we're gonna top last year pretty good year but we have some ideas we have some things on the horizon but yeah  I'm doing great excited for the new year of the podcast and uh love how how we ended last  year with the podcast and I'm sure we'll get to talk about that here in a little bit but  first off what's what's uh do you have any New Year's resolutions uh consistency you know just  trying to be more consistent in everything I do overall from work uh to me playing volleyball  recreationally to me coaching volleyball to communicating with people who's just  consistent overall I do have one specific guide is I have to play in a mountain tournament this  year I was like love that one goal I have for sure what about you love that maybe we should team up and I'll be your partner Let's Do It Let's Do It Let's do let's do a or W I'm down for it sweet  I've played in all of them they're all so much fun so USA volleyball show coming to a mountain  tournament near you not really yeah just the ones in Colorado but yeah consistency though that  that's good I didn't know we're gonna get that deep with these but it could be consistently you  know being funny I don't know it could be anything like that I love that no that's great I uh  didn't really think about any resolutions uh until probably a couple days ago and uh you  know my wife and I moved into our house uh last year and and still have yet to hang anything up  so that's kind of my resolution just to to get the house uh more decorated more and more together uh  a couple boxes still to unpack some furniture to be purchased so uh yeah that's that's yeah  get the get the house together get the house in order that's a good idea I need to get my  my apartment together I still haven't put anything on the walls hung anything up or  or anything like that I just moved my desk to where I actually wanted to be in this place and  it's just it's a slow process you know it's just you're doing a lot and you get some a little bit  of time off you're like eh I'll do it later it's not bother or anything a little bit here and there  through the year and and you'll and you'll get there for sure that's my plan that's my plan  yeah we'll check back in December we'll see if I have anything on the walls at that point well  I mean you know Happy New Year to you and all the friends of the Pod listening here  um let's take a little bit of time to just talk about what happened um at the ABCA convention  American uh volleyball coaches association uh Omaha Nebraska wow where do we start with that  experience man it was cold it was so cool it was a different kind of cold wind chill and cold yeah  like you walk outside it just hurts like your face just hurts it's just your nose goes numb and  it's just different also but also like that's just part of the experience right like I could do this nice try yeah that was my first time at ABCA first time uh uh at that convention and  it was it just blew me away every single day just to be  in that Convention Center uh on the floor of the convention center with all the vendors and and  everybody there all the coaches around all the all the presentations that that I got to to sit in on  um and just see that a different part of our community I don't know if I'd at least in a  while having seen a bunch of coaches all in one place and that was really cool to see that was  it was so beautiful to see and just literally it's it's a giant not even a classroom session  because there are so many live demos and tutorials and and walkthroughs happening like on course as  they're happening and of course you have your your demonstrations happening or your or your um  sessions happening in meeting rooms too there but it's just so interactive and then there's so many  amazing you know volleyball related booths that were there and vendors that just really help you  apply just anything really related to volleyball to your coaching or playing game or just overall  knowledge of just the sport you know we were there and be happy you'll see volleyball we  had our huge booth and you know we had a few different you know you know Pro leagues there  and just literally anything you needed from you know rest in recovery to volleyball equipment to  I don't even know so much there is just a lot to take in and that's not even like the half of it  I mean we also went to the final four matches and we also gotta You Know cover media for the  national championship game which is insane yeah that was wild I I was not I don't think  I was fully prepared for that experience I had seen it on TV I knew how big it was but  I didn't really know how big it was until we were uh directed to our seats uh front row on the court  uh which was super cool that was that was an awesome experience and just to  see that level of volleyball up close and uh yeah it was it was insane and a lot of those  athletes we we've kind of read about through you know being involved in our nttp program and  um uh junior national teams Collegiate national teams but haven't seen much in person so it's  really cool to see to see those athletes and and just those teens and those coaching staffs uh in  that moment uh and to see how much it meant to them and those programs to be in that moment it  was really cool 100 agree and I think what really made this moment that much more special was the  sold out attendance there yeah I mean yeah I don't think I've ever seen volleyball play to  that capacity before you know I've seen our Men's National Team play um you know at Walter peer and  made it at uh Cal State Long Beach I've seen them play at the Galen Center at USC and those are a  lot there are a lot of people there like I'm not trying to deter anyone from that too but  um the the shy Health Center in Omaha so it's smaller a little bit smaller I think capacity  was just over 16 000 16 100 or something like that but it was sold out there and just to have  a sellout crowd on all all three tiers and three levels of of the venue in to be where we were hi  PK hello sir um PK my cat just entered the frame but just to have him there the way they were and  just everything just happening was just Texas fans the one area we have Louisville fans in another  area and then their bands were there it's just to make it everything just to make it sweeter like  gosh I love a good I love a good band I used to be a band uh I don't want to say bad nerd but I was  a band Player and uh in middle school all through Middle School actually so I love seeing that too  what instrument did you play I played the trombone and I played the bare tone Oh so cool love it you  still have still still yeah still got those skills I don't know if I still got those skills too I  kind of translated into playing the bass guitar now but it'll take some practice but love love  instruments man I love music so it was really good to see that this this guy I'm just gonna  leave frame right now it's fine PK PK entering The Fray no uh such a cool event uh like you talked  about like we've been talking about but one of the highlights from that for me was uh seeing the  recognition of our Olympic and paralympic staff on the court was just and side by side was so cool  um just in that volleyball environment sold out crowd like you said just seeing those Olympic and  paralympic coaches there and and recognizing their achievements uh in Tokyo uh both programs winning  gold medals um the U.S women's national team and the the US Women's sitting national team coaching  staffs there and I know how much that meant to them how much it meant to to those programs and  saw a lot of the athletes uh interacting with that engaging with that on social media too which was  really cool so yeah just uh gosh I don't know I don't know I don't know how we're gonna kind of  live up to that hype uh that we had there for that but what where's it next here Tampa yes and just repeat it because gosh uh one I'll love the weather there in Tampa but uh two is just  like us talking about now does this no justice because there's just so much taken so much  happening at one point and even like the coaches um the coaches games that were happening around  that time too like I really got a chance to meet so many just good interesting coaches that were  just one wanted wanted to have fun they wanted to play and obviously two they took everything there  and applied they're just applying everything to just become better coaches and I was really  good to see us with us being you know any general coaching shortage and we're in an  official shortage here too but it's really good to see um just that quality or those coaches just  trying to come in and make themselves better for you know the the athletes that they coach  the people that they represent the people that come in and you know choose to play for them  it's just she's really good at reassuring it was so good to just experience that too  yeah thank you so much to the ABCA for inviting us out there allowing us to be part of that podcast  center there that was really cool too just uh just the amount of people that you know were walking  around and getting to see the podcast kind of see the podcast for the first time because we don't  we haven't had that many live recordings before so that was cool and the the people that were walking  around were kind of a big deal man man what did that one guy say man those podcast guys are all  over the place podcast guys are all over the place yeah that was great you know to see to see Daniel  Scott uh kind of walk when we were talking uh to Tama at the podcast center Daniel Scott tayiba and  you've parked walked by to um just never know who who you're gonna run into at that convention that  was really cool that's so great yeah thank you for to ABCA for for inviting us out there and  having us be a part of that and NCAA as well for for uh having us out for the final four that was  an awesome experience and one that uh surely we will never forget that was that was really cool  uh but moving on we could geek out about avca and NCAA and that whole experience  for multiple episodes of the podcast but moving on to this episode  um let's uh first start off with uh in case you missed it our last two episodes were recorded  while at ABCA episode 53 with U.S Men's National Team and UCLA men's volleyball head coach John  sparra and then episode 54 with U.S women's national team assistant coach Tama miyashiro  really great conversations with those two learned a lot about them um their personal  lives their vision and goals looking ahead to this season as well as looking ahead to Paris  uh to the Paris Olympics in 2024 so you can watch those also uh watch those two episodes on the USA  volleyball website and USC Volleyball YouTube channel that's usabolleyball.org our website  check them out right now they're again great episodes great conversations and I think you get  a little bit more out of watching them too so if you've already listened to them go check out the  the video versions and you might get a little bit more out of it I think they're really cool  and jumping in with our first news with Hughes of 2023 Clarence give it to him  all right well I haven't done one of these in a while I kind of spoiled off of the uh  the the live interviews we've been doing it those have been great like just the kind of touched on  that just really great to just sit down with people again PK oh look at that just in the  background on a cabinet now but um anyways news with the Hues with the Hues with Hughes excuse me  um the national team development program AKA ntdp held a successful winter training  series late in December in Southern California note Christmas time around California around  California it was about 80 degrees okay it doesn't get any better than that but  um pretty nice more than 30 USD volleyball regions were represented 120 Beach athletes and 260 indoor  athletes the program gives Junior athletes the chance to practice with and play against  some of the best competitions while also working with top coaches from across the United States  congratulations to all of those who attended 37 athletes with ties to the USA volleyball national  team development program once again ntdp were named to the 2022 American volleyball coaches  association avca girls high school volleyball All American teams and again congratulations to  all of those who earned this honor that is a huge huge thing so big round of applause to all of you  congratulations to Betsy flint and former guest of the show Julius skulls for winning gold at the  2022 North Sega beach volleyball tour finals in Punta Cana Dominican Republic also congratulations  to theobrunner and Kane Salk who took third bronze there as well Kelsey Robinson cook and Katherine  Plummer won the 2022 volleyball Women's Club Championship Women's Club world championship title  with Italy's Prosecco dog imoko volculiano late at the end of December also congratulations to them  and their Club as well as shiako bogu and Kara bajima who took silver with their Club from Turkey  more on these in all other news items at usafolleyball.org and also you can  access more news clips and features on our USD volleyball social media channels  nice a lot of a lot of hard pronunciations in there but you you did it you did it that was tough  give that about a c plus it sounded good it sounded good  Italian is such a fun language to to to speak or hear or hear I guess I think both I think yeah  yeah uh awesome well yeah now on to Today's Show we are excited to welcome Michelle Meyer founder  of nil Network in nil coordinator at San Diego State nil or name image and likeness is a Hot  Topic right now in the Sports World specifically with Collegiate Athletics Michelle breaks down  what nil is what it means for Collegiate athletes how Junior athletes can prepare  as they start the recruiting process and much much more let's get right to it here's Michelle Meyer Michelle thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with us um we just I just found out  that uh you worked in the beach office in Torrance and somehow our paths never crossed and we never  met but would love to hear more about you your background and kind of your introduction into  volleyball yeah uh thanks for having me yeah about all things uh nil my background is all in  volleyball I played uh collegiately at East Santa Barbara professionally for a year in Denmark I got  into coaching coached the beach volleyball Team out at University of Hawaii Pepperdine and then  worked at USA volleyball for a couple years out of Torrance running the beach high performance  program and um really at let's see in 2019 I was working on a project actually for the ABCA  to build a strategic plan to get Beach level added for men collegiately now covid kind of  shut that down but I was really studying you know all the economics of Intercollegiate Athletics  and that's when California passed the first state and IL bill I was like holy moly this is coming to  college sports sooner than later um the following year uh an article came up on it was like Florida  snuck in there they passed their nil bill it's going into effect next year and nobody was talking  about it I thought it was the craziest thing that we would have the biggest change in my opinion to  college sports pretty much since Title IX and you know there wasn't anything out there so I started  um nil Network and really just wanted to pull together resources to help everyone understand and  um prepare for that change you and I'm I'm still very new to this as well uh  and understanding what it is but could you kind of tell us exactly what nil is and then  um just kind of the impact it's gonna it's having and gonna have on the sport all sports  and specifically a sport of volleyball yeah so nil stands for name image and likeness it's your three  pieces of your right to publicity something that every U.S citizen has except for college athletes  up until last July 1st and name's pretty obvious your name your image is pretty obvious your  likeness um not as obvious it really is your semblance so if you're thinking uh autograph  um and outline or a cartoon character that kind of resembles you that would be your likeness so  first year and a half now we have our 500 000 NCAA athletes that are able to take advantage  of this and it's really through Partnerships sponsorships endorsement deals with Brands and  businesses so we saw most of the activations happen on social media on Instagram where  they'll partner with a brand they'll say hey what a great product or service the brand pays them you  know whatever that amount is the company then gets a new audience because they are utilizing  the audience of the college athlete to promote it so there's also the other pieces entrepreneurship  quite a few athletes have started businesses summer coaching camps and Clinics and are now  able to use their name image likeness to promote the campaign Clinic versus before they had to kind  of rely on other ways to Market it out so um very big change and it's it's all over the map right  now because we're playing by NCAA has an interim policy we have about 35 states that have a state  nil law in effect and then the institutions all have their own policies as well so  um yeah it's it's a wild landscape yeah kind of wild west right now a little bit right yep so  how did you specifically start to get involved and become an expert on all things in il yeah I mean I  really got interested in it when I was doing that project for the avca back in 2019 and I think when  California passed their law I talked to anybody who would talk to me about it because I looked  back to my time when I was coaching at Hawaii and thought about my previous athletes and they would  have loved to take advantage of this kind of stuff and not necessarily maybe from the social media  side but even going out and coaching private lessons or doing some of their own businesses  and I was like this is the right move to make now of course I looked at it from the lens of  volleyball and beach volleyball and was like the entrepreneurship the coaching is going to  be fantastic um and yeah just was studying it and pulling together all these different resources and  trying to share them out and because it's such a brand new industry there's a lot of startups  around people started reaching out just to make that connection um from different companies in  the space and universities and I loved it that was a really fun fun space so here we are yeah um I  guess some of the obvious positives you've kind of touched on are just athletes getting paid starting  their own businesses having that freedom to start their own businesses entrepreneurships um but  what are some of the like I guess less known less obvious positives for an athlete uh having an nil  I mean the one that I've heard most from athletes is they just aren't as good before they felt like  they were always tip tipping around and like man ask me about eligibility if I do this um type of  thing that should be legal and now they're going okay I can go out and I can confidently you know  pursue some different monetization opportunities um and a lot of our athletes you know even in  our Olympic sports especially they're not on full scholarships and but they are full-time  students they're full-time athletes and so it's really difficult for them to hold part-time jobs  so nil affords them the opportunity to I mean it still work it still takes quite a bit of time some  of these opportunities but they can do them on their own time and when they're available to do  them instead of having a set schedule as you'd find in a part-time job yeah what uh like how  I guess what you've seen how do athletes kind of go about you know getting an nil deal what  resources are out there I guess for for that yeah one of um I would say the top things that athletes  are utilizing are these digital marketplaces so gosh there's probably about a hundred in  this space now that some of them are focused on connecting athletes with Brands so Brands will  come on they'll have a job listing that athletes can apply to or an athlete will pick a profile and  the brand will reach out to them some of these other marketplaces are connecting athletes with  their fans so more of an athlete to Consumers either for you know digital experiences shout  outs face times there's some nft companies as well so I really think the marketplace is probably the  easiest way for them to get started in this um some other they want to do it themselves like  some athletes that are more entrepreneurial they are making a list of their brands that they want  to partner with and finding them on LinkedIn adding them reaching out and saying hey this  is who I am this is why I could give your business a really good return on investment for this type  of marketing campaign and another thing I really like about nil is you know they're they're getting  those real life skills before they're going off after they graduate um especially with my beach  volleyball background where our athletes graduate and they go on to the AVP or they're playing on  the professional tour they again can't hold those full-time jobs so they are trying to pull together  these Partnerships and sponsorships and learn all of those nuances after they graduate when they're  also trying to find their own coach their own gym manage everything in their life now potentially  they'll have those uh relationships and some Partnerships and understanding of what a you know  um sponsorship can look like and go from there uh so that's one thing off their box  when they're trying to pursue that what have been some some common challenges or points of  is causing some hesitancy towards in IO I know you mentioned eligibility was a big thing just  you know not being sure of you know the right and wrong what what to do what not to do between  that but have there been any other challenge points that kind of yeah cause that hesitation  I think it is a lot more work than any of them anticipated once you get outside of that point  zero one percent where you have the boosters and donors that are just straight fusing it  for a recruiting Advantage for most athletes it's going to be work if they're needing to build if  they want to do social media activations then they need to build their social media profile  um if they want to partner with local businesses which I think will be most of the opportunities in  five years or so they are actually the athletes themselves have to not only reproductive reach  out to the business but they're onboarding them as well and educating them on what nil  is what it looks like and why this local business should consider partnering with  athletes so it is a lot of opportunity for these current College athletes but it is a lot of work  um and and they're having to do that whole haul versus I think five years down the road when the  local businesses understand nil they have their budget line for it they know it's worked in the  past there's been many other examples it's going to be easier for the athletes in terms of the time  commitment and the education they have to do with businesses and Brands but I think it'll also be a  little bit harder for them because these Brands will have a lot more strategy of who they want  to fulfill their campaigns how are the colleges getting involved and I think you touched on it a  little bit earlier but and is that is that coming into the recruiting process at all um for for the  volleyball landscape yeah so uh actually for the last year I've been working at San Diego State uh  full-time as their nil coordinator I think I was around the fourth or fifth nil hire in the whole  country and I thought it was pretty Innovative for San Diego State it's not even a power five  but now we're at about 30 35 uh full-time staff that are just dedicated to helping with nil  outside of that and I'll admin role universities also have third-party Partnerships so open doors  and influencer are probably leaving companies in the space they'll provide athletes they have  marketplaces they have easy disclosure process most state laws require some sort of disclosure  um and then outside of that a lot of schools have also looked internally to create nil courses or  there's clubs on campus that are working with athletes for marketing so I think that that  is also really cool for regular students to that real life experience and I think  that'll continue to to grow as we progress in this is the involvement different based on the  University or school that you go to and also is it different based on the support you plan  yeah um it's it's the wild west right now so a lot of different interpretations of how much the  school can be involved and then also the school's kind of risk tolerance do they want to um you  know that there is a real liability if they are facilitating these deals for athletes some Title  IX Equity issues as well and so a lot of schools San Diego State being one of them it's very  education based so my role athletes could come in and meet with me we can create a strategy together  um we can talk about you know athletes similar to them and what they've done across the country I  can also talk to local businesses or our donors but it's all from an education perspective and  not that facilitation so if a brand business comes to me and says hey we want to work with an athlete  which one would you recommend I I'm not selecting an athlete for them I will send them to our open  doors Marketplace they can filter on there to find you know an athlete that makes sense for their  campaigns um but I can talk to them about you know what some other deals have looked like or whatnot  what's the I guess for for volleyball athletes listening or maybe parents  or whoever is interested in this what's the reality for for a volleyball athlete in this  space you know what what can they expect what sort of Brands uh can they expect to partner  with what kind of return uh money can they get from this yeah I would say you know it's gonna  differ out like the athlete and especially as we continue progressing and maybe taking some  of the Wild West out of this industry but for right now um the marketplaces are a really good  place they're not going to make life-changing money from that because those are typically  National brands that are trying to activate I don't know a thousand athletes across the  country they're going to pay them 100 bucks each 50 bucks each um but they can those add up right  and it's still more than they had before and they're usually pretty simple activations where  it's hey share this to your Instagram story tag our account something simple like that  um and then there's other athletes that are more proactive they're reaching out to the local  businesses and spending that time to put together a deal and understand a space and that's where  they'll get more meaningful uh Partnerships and potentially more uh compensation because that'll  be you know in their own in their own town would you say uh maybe for the average athlete it's more  of a more of a way to learn how to navigate these kind of you know contracts working with businesses  especially like you mentioned after college a lot of your resources get taken away because you  you don't have the training facilities and stuff like that yeah but more of a kind of just a way to  learn how to how to work in that space yeah um it is like like um they have to create their strategy  they have to know how to negotiate deals and have something that they're comfortable and confident  with the contract piece is very worrisome for me we can't expect you know student athletes to  be lawyers right they're not that's what people go to law school for um but we also know that they're  probably not going to go find an attorney and pay them for 500 bucks to vet their contract for them  um so that's a bit of a concerning piece and then the last part of that that after is you know now  they're learning financial literacy skills that they can Implement right now how do you file your  taxes um those different pieces are really cool for them to learn now and then take them with them  you talked about just kind of the things that worried you there but just some of the other  drawbacks that you that you have seen so far or maybe 4C uh in this space yeah um I think  that this wild west landscape I mean it's our athletes are pretty exposed right now um you  know and they're so accessible also through their social media accounts anybody can go on send them  a direct message and say Hey I want to represent you you know we're a nil agents and blah blah blah  yeah yeah and some of these companies because there's no barrier to entry anybody can call  themselves an nil agent there's no certification that they are playing the numbers game they're  sending over you know a couple hundred DMS a day knowing that some of these athletes are  not going to have the resources to understand the contract and what they're signing into so I'm a  bit worried in the next couple years that we'll see some of those not so great stories come out  um I know a big concern also is the involvement of of boosters and donors  um getting into that recruiting process I think nil along with the transfer portal has just been  this kind of crazy blend of uh you know we've seen it mostly outside in football and men's basketball  um so far but you know athletes would be risking their eligibility if they signed into a contract  before actually signing with the school so it's all these verbal kind of inducements that are  going on with no actual guarantee that that compensation is there so I've already heard  a couple stories of you know kids committing to schools pretty much based off of what nil money  that they were guaranteed and then they show up on campus and they go well actually we're  we're gonna you know only pay you 20 of that or maybe even nothing at all so they athletes I mean  they're it's it's a hard choice to navigate for them right now um what are some examples of some  of the you know agreements or you know contracts or just the brands that athletes get involved with  what are some examples that you know athletes have been involved in and you know been able to  kind of benefit from yeah I think that um for the most part the national brands have been the early  adopters because they have budgets they have people that are dedicated to understanding the  space um and resources to reach out to athletes and put some marketing dollars behind it I  feel in probably five years time it is going to be more of those local businesses the the  restaurants around town that all of the students are eating at because it it makes sense for them  to partner with student athletes who are most of their followers are that young age  demographic that is hard to get in front of and usually a local audience as well  um but yeah it's it's not quite there yet and what are some of those top sports that uh you know that  athletes have that athletes play that they've been benefiting from so you know just kind of  ranking amongst all sports that colleges have to offer yeah I think that I mean the looking at the it's our open doors companies uh football husband leading the way so far I also don't  think it's fair that they have over 100 players on their team and they don't really break it down  by uh you know number of players how are they going to compete against the scale as well yeah  um men's and women's basketball women's basketball has really been killing it on  Tick Tock actually they've got a lot of um good dances and things that they're doing  up on there uh women's volleyball I think is the second women's sport  um and something else a trend that you know we see now for I guess almost two years is that when uh  athletes are in season is when they're the most marketable um but that's also when they're the  busiest so volleyball last year came out at the end of their season I think is the second sport  behind football overall um but then it kind of died down as we went into the springtime  how can high school athletes uh parents even kind of prepare themselves as they you know  start to get into the recruiting process and start hearing about nil and having to like  make those decisions and and uh just research on their own how can they prepare themselves  like what steps should they be taking yeah I think understanding you know what is interesting to them  for nil activations like is it social media is the most common so far but there are other  opportunities as well uh if they want to do social media that you're going to get higher compensation  if they have more followers and a high engagement so how do they strategize around building up their  platform so when they can take advantage of it they're in a good position to do so  um don't buy followers people can see right through that stuff now there are so many tools out  there that uh and it's just silly I can't believe how many are still doing that but uh yeah and if  they want to you know if they're interested in business if they're interested again in coaching  or some other things how can they best position themselves and and start taking kind of steps to  build that strategy now um so yeah I mean in terms of the recruiting process if nil is something that  is important to them uh in college they probably should look into what their different you know  it's another now factor into that recruiting process where you have your relationship with  coaches your location and the level of the program uh the teammates now what are the nil resources  that are put in place the third party Partnerships do have an nil admin you can go and speak to um do  they do jerseys co-branded opportunities with the school um what does the city look like like are I  always say in San Diego um you know we've got 1.4 million people 85 000 local businesses and not a  lot of competition for sport sponsorship dollars because we only have the San Diego Padres as the  professional franchise there so I think there's a lot of opportunity there um and you know and  smaller let's say Lincoln Nebraska has a smaller town but they are die hard for their Huskers right  and so there's other kind of opportunities and what that looks like as well okay  how can high school athletes compare themselves for uh you know for  the recruitment process with you know nil's involvement in a lot of that conversation and  just a lot of that prep work how can they prepare themselves for that yeah that concerns me a bit right now is that guarantee of nil money and I think that they really need to  think about if if they are speaking to a coach and they go you know if you come here you'll get X to  me that would be a red flag versus a coach saying hey this is kind of the examples of what has been  going on on our team uh so far or the deals and the different brands that they're partnering with  um I think the guarantee of money is but yeah it scares me a lot um and again just understanding  the different resources talking to the current athletes on the team what does it look like for  them um is the coach even supportive of nil I know that you know it's it is a massive massive change  um that potentially outside of the revenue generating sports that coaches haven't even felt  yet and they just see it as a distraction they don't want their athletes to do it  um and so I think that that is also what is a team culture around it look like right now  um yeah so again it's something so new still that it's going to continue changing and evolving yeah  I know it's still very new in the NGB space as well I believe USA Triathlon was the first to  launch a nil Collective um is this something that you think NGB should get more involved in  um I know they're not a college they're they're kind of more on the professional  side a little bit but they deal a lot with the youth uh Grassroots volleyball too yeah  um but do you think yeah do you think NGB should start thinking about this more  you know it's it's interesting with this um this new term of collectives right so it started as a  gator Collective for University of Florida I think September of 2021 and it really is  um a business an organization that is meant to support athletes of a particular institution  what has started happening and with USA Triathlon and uh even outside of ngbs and  a couple other spaces is it's not University specific anymore but it's Sports specific or  um even I think what was there there's like a women's athletes Collective that came out and  so I mean it's really a way of fundraising from the people who are support those athletes and  then bringing in a pile of money and activating whatever they have been built to support so  um I think that there's a lot of opportunity there for I like for myself coming from beach  volleyball like man that would be cool to have a beach volleyball type Collective  because it's it is Niche and like the fan base I think isn't really so DieHard for  one school or another but they just love beach volleyball and they would love access to some  kind of you know beach volleyball exclusive access content or something like that so  um yeah well I'm sure oh sorry do you have any follow-up I always gonna ask how how has the  engagement been with volleyball specific players on the indoor and Beach sides of things you know  this could be you know good feedback or you know a little more hesitancy on on you know  indoors compared to beach but you know how's the volleyball Community been just in receiving you  know this these opportunities that are you know kind of newly appointed to them yeah  um actually just session before so so there's a company called on3 that's a media company  and part of the databases they're building are kind of like valuations of athletes  So based off of their social media following engagement their actual on-court achievements  um the I don't know how they measure this but like the public perception of this athlete  um and I think that the top athlete was valued again this isn't how much they've made it's  basically just an algorithm that pulls together some ideas about what they could potentially  make in a year yeah yeah and I think the top athlete was around a hundred thousand dollars  um but again it's all just projections right now for the volleyball athletes that have been  very successful they've had you know even before Niall went into effect they had massive platforms  um social media influencing or they were entrepreneurs or things like that so they  were well positioned to take advantage of these these new opportunities um some yeah I know that  actually the University of Houston just did a full team deal which is pretty cool with a i lab it was  from an alumni of Houston that is the president of 10 different locations offered the full team  a deal I think they're doing a meet and greet and a couple social media posts um so I'm hoping to  see more of those full team deals I think it makes it more comfortable for the athletes as  well especially if they're a lot of the feedback I get is you know I don't want to be that kind of  sellout of my social media platforms for friends and family I don't want to be a billboard and blah  blah blah which I totally get I feel the same way about my own social media account um so  some of those meet and greets with your full team having a meal at a restaurant are are very cool it  seems yeah it seems like it'd be more comfortable like you said just because you're not by yourself  trying to navigate that space you have your teammates there your coach is probably helping out  hopefully there's an nil representative at their school helping out too so yeah I don't know yeah  uh still like you said very new and I'm sure that as this unfolds more landscape becomes more clear  um we'll have you on we'll have you back on to kind of talk about the the updates and stuff but  is there anything else that we've kind of left on the table that you'd like to I don't know  bring to light or talk about uh that we missed I guess I would just say like I know it's it's  a big change and it's scary for a lot of people and there's a lot of you know big headlines and  um uh it's it's gonna take time I think it'll probably take about five years until it becomes  a normal kind of uh functioning part of College athletics um but I I 100 believe it is the right  move it is something that athletes deserve that that right as every other student on campus has  um so stick with it don't quit on don't quit on it and it shouldn't be ignored I think like we  mentioned before we started recording shouldn't be ignored by colleges uh coaches whoever because it  is here to stay and it's only going to get more stronger as we go and uh want to get ahead of it  I'm sure because it is a scary landscape yeah and I think once they understand it it not only does  it become less scary but it also creates that um I don't know I guess like a a just yeah it  becomes less scary I'd say more normalized maybe yeah more normalized and it isn't as disruptive  because right now I guess it's like oh this kid's doing this nil deal and now everybody is  talking it's all you know a lot of noise around it but if we can just learn and embrace it then  the kids will do it in their free time and they come and they train and they're students and yeah  where can people uh follow you um on social media or follow you and or email you and ask you  questions uh uh from in the space yeah so um the website I started it's called nilnetwork.com Uh  there's a ton of resources up there for athletes coaches administrators Brands and businesses to  understand just how this industry is evolving I uh on Instagram and I'll Network and Twitter  although I wouldn't say I'm very active on Twitter and then every Wednesday most Wednesdays I host  an open q a where anyone around the country can log in it's a 30 minutes they can come and get  their questions answered I think that's probably the easiest way they have a couple questions and  um yep well Michelle thank you so much this was very helpful for me personally because I just I  don't know a whole lot about it but hopefully a lot of our listeners got a lot out of it and uh  excited to see how it all unfolds yeah for sure thanks for having me thank you thank you such an enlightening conversation uh with Michelle and just ton of a ton of great information that  on a topic that I didn't know a whole lot about going into that conversation with her  um but great to to be able to talk to her and I think it was just a good jumping off point for  for all our listeners and anyone interested in that topic uh it's a constantly evolving topic  uh updates coming out all the time uh even new hires uh at colleges that's a new position that's  being included in in the college athletics department administration department uh just  an nil coordinator nil director um just a very interesting topic and just something that that  recruits one more thing that recruits need to be needing to consider as they go into uh their  Collegiate careers for sure yeah totally agree with everything there too um again I I myself  you know just had very minimal information on you know nio named image and likeness sorry but  um I really love how she pointed out um you know yes she has her uh work she does specifically  with nil network but there's also so many levels to it depending on what institution and college  you're at and what sport you're playing and just like just imagine like a blade canvas and just  you know Texas is going to go do things one way but also in college who the D3 school might do  something different and then you take yourself over to the West Coast and uh you know involve  yourself with you know smaller school like I went to uh California State University Dominguez Hills  compared to somewhere someone or an organization like USC there's just so many different tiers to  it and it's just growing it's growing so fast so rapidly and um you know there's a lot of  good being done here and a lot of uh a lot of effort being put towards the right foot and I  do also you know respect actually cautioned like you know you just really have to be careful and  do your research and make sure you're talking to the right people there too because you know  because this is a new space because this is there are a lot of Uncharted lands here  um you know there's a potential for you know athletes to be caught up or potentially caught  up in you know conversations with you know people who don't have their best interest interest or  best foot forward and uh interest at hand or best foot forward and you know because of that you have  to really be careful so just again really great conversation we had there and we learned so much  yeah and I think uh education of this topic is is just the most important thing if you get anything  out of this conversation with Michelle I think that's the biggest part it's uh it's a topic that  might be considered you know taboo or or or just not a something you want to want to avoid  um but it's here and it's it's gonna stay it's it's you know made into NCAA policy  now so it's it's here to stay so just the more you know about it the more you're you're better  prepared going into it and yeah like you said it's just it's continuing to evolve different  um you know it's it's getting updated every day different information coming out every day so uh  definitely uh reach out to to Michelle reach out to the nil network if you have questions  they have tons of great resources on that website uh their Instagram account also  has a ton of great resources and information I saw just today when I was looking at their  Instagram that that Michelle uh does uh little q and A's every Wednesday um I'm not sure if she's  carrying out over into the new year but that was uh her last post her last pin to post so  um definitely be on the lookout for that and just to just to check in every now and then just to see  what's new on the topic that's nilnetwork.com and then on Instagram uh at the nil Network  um definitely going to be for us I think we're going to be checking in on this topic too moving  forward just new stuff comes up maybe we'll check in with Michelle just to see if there's anything  new anything big that we need to have her on again and just talk through and maybe go more in depth  in the in this conversation I agree yeah but again um thank you so much to you know to you Michelle  um for taking the time to sit down with us at the ABCA convention we hope you liked our backdrop we  hope you like the setup and you know the live interview aspect of it too and you know it's  really good to find out too that Michelle's also a former USA volleyball employees too  so you know we're all we're all in this together but again it's all connected literally but as we  learn more about the ni on some updates um like you snatched Steven it's just good to be be able  to chime in and tune in uh you know about what's new in the topic and uh also uh this was again  a live interview so this was recorded from the USC Volleyball booth at the ABCA commission is  here if you guys feel like you want to you know get that in-person aspect with us you can watch  this episode uh you know since we were there so again like you mentioned this will be available  on our USC Volleyball YouTube channel in addition to all of our social media streaming platforms  that we hope people were scanning their QR code as they they walked by our um lovely Banner at  the Convention as well yeah that was great to have that Banner there thanks uh thanks to our  marketing coordinator Bree for for setting that up that was sweet only of that uh we definitely  saw people stop and and and scan that QR code and then I think that was part of the why we got that  guy who walked by said wow these podcast guys are everywhere oh yeah but that was a lot of fun thank  you again Michelle for for taking the time to sit down and talk with us uh great conversation  but uh moving on with the episode let's let's jump into upcoming events we have a whole bunch  uh especially here on the junior side looking at the early part of 2023 first up we have the windy  city girls 18's National qualifier January 14th through the 16th in Schaumburg Illinois the winter  volleyball championship boys National qualifier January 14th through the 16th in Chicago Illinois  the KC MLK girls 18's National qualifier January 14th through the 16th in Kansas City Missouri  the Lone Star Girls 18's National qualifier January 20th through the 22nd in Austin Texas  the Southwest classic boys National qualifier January 20th through the 22nd in Austin Texas  the SCBA Invitational boys National qualifier January 21st through the 22nd in Irvine California  the Mad sand Juniors Beach event January 21st in Plano Texas SCBA winner series number one January  21st in Hermosa Beach California the SS ovas January St Pete Beach tournament January 22nd  in St Pete's Beach Florida wow that is fun to say hard to say Pete Beach Florida that's fast  good luck to everyone competing in those events and shout out to all the usav region setting up  those events hosting those events putting them on uh we know that that's a ton of work to do that it  doesn't go unnoticed um and those events don't happen without you so thank you again for for  setting those up uh events up more details on all upcoming events can be found at usabollyball.org now for a few more indoor Club reminders on the junior uh site here registration is still open  for those looking to compete in the Salt Lake City Showdown on April 8th through 10th and  14th through the 16th as of today right now I can confirm that there is no wait list so  if you're looking to get a team into a national qualifier like Salt Lake City Showdown get your  team registered in the AES ASAP I think you will be accepted because I am the one who is  accepting teams for that one also other events like sunshine classic in Orlando in the Asics  show me qualifier in Kansas City I believe do have some wait lists and registration will be closing  for them relatively soon so get on those lists sooner rather than later if you do want to compete  um registration updates now registration updates for our National Championship events uh we have  our boys International uh Championship happening in Salt Lake City this year registration is now  open for that one tournament dates are June 29th through July 6th we have our  girls junior Nationals 11-13's National Championship in Minneapolis registration  is open as of today and Wednesday Today I mean as of this podcast airing today on January 11th  um registration is open for that one tournament dates are June 14th through the 17th lastly we  have our girls junior National 14th through 17 in Chicago registration will be opening up for that  one on January 18th terminate dates are June 28th through July 6th and reminder for our National  Championship events you do need a bid in order to compete at Nationals with the exception of the  Patriot division which is a free-for-all division so if you're looking at jumping into competition  with the Patriot division register as soon as it opens up it is literally down to the second  with Patriot division so don't hesitate there also registration opens up for our adult open National  Championship being held in Dallas Texas on January 25th um that registration uh will be a little bit  more slow but get your teams in opens is going to be a very very exciting event this year I'm  so excited to be uh the lead on that going into a second year of that one so uh all you adults  out there that's for you make sure you go ahead and get those teams registered get your teams  together and we'll see you in Dallas at the end of May again good luck to all teams traveling and  competing at our national and regional qualifier soon and good luck on your quest to earn a bid to  Nationals uh more information on Dave's divisions and deadlines can be found at usavolleyball.org I'll give you a little break here all that information great to have an events person  on on this podcast to spit that out and give us those reminders thank you for that no problem  uh remember listeners you can rate and review share with friends family teammates it really  helps this podcast grow and reach new listeners and check out our video episodes we're going  to be putting out a few more of those uh with this starting with this episode and a few more  down the road so check in with our on our website usabollyball.org and our YouTube channel to watch  those again you'll get a little bit more out of it I think uh even if you've already listened to the  episode uh just to be able to watch the interviews I think is is a really cool experience uh and we  thank you for all your support do you know a club that should be featured or a story you'd like to  share with us you can email us at the usabshow at usab.org leave us feedback let us know how we're  doing if there's any future topics you want to hear about let us know uh we definitely we check  our email uh check our inbox uh every day so uh obviously I do I do okay uh check our inbox and  and we'll get those topics leave us feedback we want to improve we want to keep improving  and uh serving the volleyball community so let us know what you're interested in what you want  to hear about reminder new episodes drop every other Wednesday and until next time thank you  for listening to the USA volleyball show the official podcast of USA volleyball this has  been the USA volleyball show with Clarence Hughes and Stephen Munson produced by Curtis Ward our  content producer is Lara Fawcett our marketing lead is Bree Jaycox if you enjoyed this podcast  be sure to rate and review and if you haven't already please subscribe to the USA volleyball  show on Apple podcasts Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts