Billie Jean King and Ilana Kloss

00:00:14
Speaker 1: Hi everybody, and welcome to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast. We are live literally live in Mulliga, Spain. May I just say before we get going with our wonderful two guests.

00:00:24
Speaker 2: Help.

00:00:24
Speaker 1: I've just been walking around the city of Mulligha, and if you haven't been, get your butts over here. It is goh yes, it is beautiful. It was so surprising. I thought it was going to be smaller than it was and it's just fantastic.

00:00:35
Speaker 2: So get over here. Get on a plane.

00:00:36
Speaker 1: It's not far. Was it like a six hour flight from New York. It's no excuses. It's better than flying to LA. But now that I've said that from somebody who does come from LA, got two amazing guests today here, of course, the week of the Billy Jean King Cup Alana Class and Billy Jean King.

00:00:53
Speaker 2: Hi, guys. Billy, you have been on the pod before.

00:00:56
Speaker 1: You are not a virgin to my podcast, no, but Alana is I am.

00:01:01
Speaker 3: Although I have to say I'm a very loyal follower and great.

00:01:06
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I appreciate you, guys. It's a joy actually to have you. You are both I can say this hopefully both very good personal friends of mine. It's been a joy to get to know you guys, and I'll get to that at the end. We have been roommates. I've done your laundry, Billy and Alana very good for something.

00:01:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thank you.

00:01:28
Speaker 1: And before I get into like sort of some of our personal stuff, I want to talk to you guys, because Billy, you get interviewed all the time. Alana you get interviewed all the time independently and sometimes you got I don't get to have you together, so I won't know for the people, the listeners, our listeners who love tennis, how the hell did you guys.

00:01:47
Speaker 2: Ended up being a couple.

00:01:49
Speaker 1: It's been forever, forty five years this year, forty five years.

00:01:53
Speaker 2: Mozzle tough to that and you said the right word because Ilana's Jewish, I know.

00:01:57
Speaker 3: And well, it's an amazing story. Actually, I started as a ball girl at the South African Championships and Billy in the amateur days. Own Williams, who was the promoter of the South African Championships, brought all of the best players to South Africa and they were at the time getting money under the table, dollars a lot, and I just grew up loving tennis, and my mom sold programs at the tournament, and I was a ball kid. And the very first time I saw Billy Gen I was ten years old. Billy, Jean King, Rosie Cassells, Rod Laver, Roy Emerson, Tony Roach. I mean, all the best players in the world came and I was a ball girl, and I just loved the way Billy served and volleyed, and you know, always charged the net and had all of this and passion in the way she played, and you know, destiny really. I was hitting on a side court with my dad before the tournament. Billy walked by the court and she said to my dad, she's pretty good. Yeah, she said, you know, I recognize your daughter. She's been picking up balls, and would you mind if I came on the court and hit a few balls with her. She walked on the court, she hit with me for ten minutes. She said to my dad and actually my mom, who was there as well, your daughter has a lot of talent, and you know, if she wants to continue to pursue it, here's my address. Here's the name of my coach, Frank Brennan Senior. She introduced me to the Wilson Rap and you know, the rest is history. I decided that day that I was going to be a professional tennis player. Little did I know there wasn't pro tennis yet for women. So that was my first time I met her. The second time she came back to South Africa. But when I went to Wimbledon in nineteen seventy.

00:04:07
Speaker 1: Two, because people don't know, you were a very good player in your own right along.

00:04:10
Speaker 3: It wasn't bad, it wasn't bad. But the world went to Wimbledon, played in the junior event, bumped into Billy Jean again. In those days, as a junior, they wouldn't let you practice anywhere near Wimbledon. So I walked past the court Billy Jean was warming up for her woman's singles final with Kristen Kammer at the time, and Billy Jean said to me, why don't you come and warm up with us? And so I just unheard of exactly can you imagine, I mean one on one would be one.

00:04:43
Speaker 2: Have you practiced for your match? Because I knew she was in the finals of the junior So she says, no, I can't, I can't play on these I have just come with us let's go.

00:04:51
Speaker 1: So you three of the court, three of us practice.

00:04:55
Speaker 3: They worked out great, and you know, Billy Jean won the match again. Vonne google are Gong at the time, and I won the junior event against Glennis Coles, and you know, so our lives have intersected obviously since I was ten years old. But it was just because I had a passion to play and I wanted to be a pro. And that's why we always talk about if you can see it, you can be it, and how important it is to go to countries like Malaga to have one hundred and thirty seven nations in the billigean Kin Cup, because every time there's live tennis in a country, you are just inspiring the next generation of young kids. And so you know, we're very committed. I am personally to playing that forward because it changed my life.

00:05:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, there you go, whoa, I'm impressed. Well, I've actually a goal. Let's go what do we want? Let's go have a goal here.

00:05:54
Speaker 1: You know, I actually never I actually never knew that story. I knew part of that story, but I didn't know all of the story. So that's really just great to hear, and it is so important and it's funny because maybe not at the same time, but I was. I wanted to be a ball girl at the Sydney tournament at White City.

00:06:12
Speaker 2: My mom wouldn't let me ball.

00:06:14
Speaker 1: Why because she said, no, I want you to pay. I don't want you to be the ball which is interesting, right.

00:06:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you want to be on the court with the best player to actually get that.

00:06:22
Speaker 1: I think is that she didn't want me to not be at school, Billy, but I skipped school. I don't know if you remember that court at White City and it had that that had that like a waterway through the middle of the back courts, and my brother and I used to sneak down there, down into that water area. There was no water, it was only a little trickle, and we'd get up onto that bridge that breathed from the back to the fall and we'd sneak up onto that bridge and get into the tennis tournament that way.

00:06:49
Speaker 2: I never paid.

00:06:50
Speaker 3: Now, why am I not surprised?

00:06:52
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, White City, Oh my gosh, I remember. That's funny.

00:06:55
Speaker 1: I remember seeing you and I've got an autograph book. I've told you this with your autograph and.

00:06:59
Speaker 2: It's so cute. But you know what, I remember the side win. Yes, it was awful. Oh my goodness. So when you're on one side, it's going right to left and then when you change its it's left to right. And you really got to pay attention when you changed ends, because you don't want to wait until the score is thirty love or love thirty and go oh yeah, the wind's the opposite. You know, you've got to be yeah, but it's a certain volier.

00:07:19
Speaker 1: It was not bad having win because you knew that they could you on a certain side exactly.

00:07:24
Speaker 2: You knew you had to play the court and the wind and the conditions are really important to understand.

00:07:28
Speaker 1: So okay, so we've heard like the story of your relationship and going through I essentially through life together.

00:07:34
Speaker 2: Now, so how nice.

00:07:35
Speaker 1: Has it been for you, Billy, for both of you to create something like your foundation, this business acumen. This it's been you know, going through playing a tennis career, but then now doing something even more special, a legacy you're going to leave long before we're all gone. What does that meant to you, Billy, to sort of not only have life with a Lina personally, but also build this incredible business foundation vision together.

00:08:06
Speaker 2: Alana is always really good in business. She just didn't know. You know, you don't know when you're a young tennis player. But she's really good at sales and concepts and her dad was a salesperson. I always tell her, and I teaser you know, it was in your dad's blood. It's in your blood. Because she loves it, she thrives on it. She gets a lot of yeses, she doesn't get as many no's as most people trying to sell because she understands the other person. I'm so aware of that by the way relationship, we try to understand the other person and what they need, not what we want, and then you match it up. So Elana is really really exceptional at that, and also very good at taking care of a client once we have one, because that's just as important, if not more important, as well. A lot of people get a yes and then that's it. They don't see them again. No, you do, just see opposite. You must take care of your clients and the people in it with you, and relationships are everything. With us, we talk about that all the time and we all so I want to create that with the people that work with us that they feel that it's like family, almost that we really care about them beyond just the work they do for us. I think that's important, but we just we just realized that how much women's sports needs help and to progress. We're so young still. I was always very frustrated in the sixties and seventies. We you know, our generation took tennis from amateurism to professionalism. I love the fact that I was a part of that. I also what people don't realize, I've been in the business since nineteen sixty eight. My former husband and I own tournaments part owners. Obviously because we didn't have any money, we had good ideas, and I think being on the business side, because the players will ask me what should I do, Billy, I go learn the business. It's such true because I say, do you when you go to a let's say, a five hundred tournament or two fifty or whatever. I go, do you ever did you get paid? And they go, oh, oh, yeah, of course they're have paid. And I go, did you ever ask the owner promoter of the event? Because they work all year for this one week? This is not like, oh, we just put it on for a week. They kill themselves through. That's what we used to do. We'd just kill ourselves for that one week of a tournament. I said, have you ever asked them how they have done? Did they have a good week? And not one player has said to me. They look at me and they get this blank stare and they go, I never thought about it. And I said, well, it might be good. And then why don't you work on a tournament for a week. Just work just like staff person. Just work. I don't like that word staff associate, and so I you know, I just said, go ahead and work for a tournament just to answer the phone. Even of course you don't do it like we used to in the old days. I mean I used to get calls. I would sit and take calls from people buying tickets, and you learn so much from them to go, well, I want a ticket. When Chris, Evan and Martine are playing in the finals, well they might not be in the finals because they have you explain the format of a tournament, which they didn't really understand, and then they make decisions. That way, we try to get them to come early. And because there's so many great players, people don't realize. I mean, if you look at different sports, they have thousands of people who play that sport like in the league, like baseball's got nine hundred guys and and football's got about nine hundred. You know, nflis that's all I say. And we have we have thousands playing and no one appreciates them. No, But if I see it, I'm bringing a pro player and they go, well, what's her ranking? If I said five hundred, they said, oh, they're no good. But if I bring a Major League Baseball player or an NFL professional player, or or a soccer football person from NWS, at least they go oh wow. And I'm like, so they need to understand that tennis players will go very deep on our rankings. And it's a global sport, which I think is absolutely huge. As a child, I knew it was important because I love history. I read all the history books, and I knew then that I was going to be a part of a global sport because I didn't grow up with tennis. I never heard of tennis, you know, into mind. Susan Williams said you want to play tennis, and you said, what's that? I go, what's tennis? And she says seriously, I said no, seriously, I don't know. It's going to be the rest of your life, Billy, that's what she should have said. Well, you know what, they're still in touch with. I just saw Susan the other day and I said, every time I stear it go, it's all thank your fault. I always say it's all your fine. You say it's all your fault and thank you so much, and I do say things, are you kidding? Every day She's on my blessing list every single day of my life. Without Susan, I wouldn't be here. So I'm really thrilled.

00:12:27
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think just back to your question on the business.

00:12:31
Speaker 1: You always know how to bring it back along. Yeah, you know, Billy Weed, she's a weaver.

00:12:35
Speaker 2: She's our business person. Yeah, you're a weaver.

00:12:37
Speaker 3: I mean I was fortunate enough, at seventeen years old to be around when the WTA was started. I was in the room when we formed our first player Association, which is kind of our player union, although we were independent contractors.

00:12:54
Speaker 1: But he's over locked the doors and said, you're not.

00:12:58
Speaker 3: What was amazing was that even Billy at the time was thinking that it was very important that the tour was perceived as global and not just have Americans on the board. So as a South African, I got to be on the second board, and I just got to learn the business. I mean, the players actually ran the WTA and it was just an amazing education to actually learn the business. So I feel I was very lucky to be mentored by Billy jen and at the time of former husband Larry King, because they were in business. And what I learned was that the relationships that I could make by going to a sponsor party, by playing in a pro am, I mean we were had the opportunity to meet the very best of the best. The best CEO is the smartest people, and so I learned at a very young age you know what was important of the court as well as on the court. So that was a big part of it. And then to be honest, I did not love competing in tennis. I hated being out there alone. I like being part of a team. That's why I loved playing in the Billy jean Kin Cup, which actually was the Federation Cup when I was growing up. And just that being selected to play for your country. I think U SWZ know what that means.

00:14:27
Speaker 2: I mean, when you got the.

00:14:28
Speaker 3: Call to play for your country, that was it. It wasn't how much prize money or their points are there are no points.

00:14:36
Speaker 2: I didn't even know.

00:14:36
Speaker 3: We got paid exactly sign It was a great honor, and I think as a young player, you know, you aspire to represent your country, and that's the great thing about tennis. You can have individual and you can have team. And so very quickly I learned that I loved the sport of tennis. I loved the business of tennis, but I didn't actually love competing. So it was very fortunate that, you know, when I came to the end of my career, I played about eleven years on the tour. Billy Jean was doing World Team Tennis. They needed somebody to help with players. I got in at that level. Then I got in with our partners and sponsors, and then I ran the league for about almost twenty years. And when we sold World Team Tennis about eight nine years ago, we decided that we really wanted to continue in the business. And there was just so much opportunity and so much need in women's sports, and people just kept coming to us and asking for information, and so just all that history of learning and understanding the business and having to operate a league on a small budget and always struggling, and then our life changed when we met Kimber and Mark Walter. And actually you're a little bit of it as your fault because you introduced us to Commal Murray and access tennis, and Billy went and helped him raise some money. And then you know, we met the Walter family, who obviously you know, owned the Dodgers, asked us did we want to be involved with the La Sparks? And I'll never forget.

00:16:24
Speaker 1: Hey, you guys might Oh no, you missed out on page Brokers yesterday number two. Sorry, guys, Billy's not looking at me very happy right now. Now she might be gone to the wings. But anyway, carry on, carry on. How I follow all these things?

00:16:37
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, so but you know, the interesting thing was that Billy Jean said to Mark Walter, will whine up the Dodgers. And he looked at her and he said, you know what, Billy Jean, why not the Dodgers? And I think that really propelled us to kind of be at the big boy table. And I think what that's in abled us to do is have capital. You have to follow the money. And it's not just because you want more and more money, but money allows you to have choices. And that's why Billy always tells women and young girls and everybody follow the money because that's going to give you options in.

00:17:18
Speaker 2: Your life, and then you can give it away.

00:17:21
Speaker 3: But make it before you know, you don't always default into nonprofit work. You know, look at you know, a much brighter, a much broader lens.

00:17:33
Speaker 1: It's funny that you say that, Like, you guys know me very well. I have never had an agent, and I have established relationships with people and then they get to know me, and then they get to know my work or know.

00:17:46
Speaker 2: Me as a person.

00:17:47
Speaker 1: And a lot of people insinuate they think they know me, but then they don't realize. You know, these relationships are formed by talking to people. It's getting to know people, it's getting into the rooms, it's getting to know Kim and Mark and Kimber has been those guys have been incredible for tennis, for women's sports. They're the major sponsor now of the PWHL, which you.

00:18:04
Speaker 2: Guys, they're the owner. They are the only investor in millions and millions, and that's why I try to understand make the players and others. It takes millions and millions and billions of dollars to make these. That's the way men's sports work, if you do, if you look at their history, which I try to learn all the time. But for me to ask for what I wanted and needed, that was unusual because girls are taught not to ask what we want to need. So that was the first time just for us. I can ask for a group, huge group and all that. I'm great at that. But when Mark asked us about the Sparks, and I love basketball was my first sport, that's really good. But my brother was a Major League baseball player for twelve years. I grew up in professional baseball, professional football, all these things. And of course I grew up with the Dodgers because I was a teenager when the Dodgers moved to in California. So here I'm a kid. We didn't have one major league team in California, and now there was five, and now that we're down to four. Maybe, But the point is I my allegiance was with the Dodgers, and so I had history with the Dodgers. The reason I wanted to be with the Dodgers. And then of course secondarily, which I didn't think about right away, was there. It's worth a lot more money, and so you know, we want we want the Sparks to start doing better too. But you know, and people come to us constantly asking for help. I mean, Kendall Coin called the Lana. I think Kendall Coin ice hockey, ice hockey. She's the captain of the American team. Unbelievable, the fastest, fastest skater. She's five too, it's hilarious. Her husband's six seven, Michael. He's adorable anyway, and she has a new baby, Drew and all that, so it's so cute. But I remember her call, and we were a Lakers game because Mark's involved the Lakers as well, and I grew up with the Lakers. I'm a Laker kid. And she calls us, we're the Laker game, and Kendall cold, Kendall does yep, and Kendle Coin calls us, and Lawn took the call and walked down in the hall and she says, I need your help. I think I think Angela Rocheiro gave her the information, which was important. And Margiro angel Rorizeiro was just a rock star and a superstar in ninety eight Olympics. Okay, so I knew all about her and she was a friend. I ad met her at the Women's Sports Foundation. So Kendle calls, so we set up a meeting in New York. I'll never forget. I can know exactly where we were standing. Where Kendall was standing was right before you go into the kitchen. And she looked up at us and said, help, we have to have a pro hockey league, the proper one, not the ones we've.

00:20:37
Speaker 1: Had, because there was skept they were splintered splinters.

00:20:41
Speaker 2: Not only that, but when you did play a lot of times, you didn't get paid. A lot of times you slept on a sofa. You can't get a shower. I mean, we're talking about basic, basic stuff. So we went to Mark. But it took seven years and we had our first season January first this year. It was highly successful. It was really on the game plan or in our fourth year actually, with the second starting I think November thirtieth this year. But the Professional Women's Hockey League has got only six teams right now, Mark on every single one of them. So every team everybody's taking care of equally because of that, because you have great owners, you know sometimes and bad owners and all that. With the way it works now.

00:21:21
Speaker 1: I see it in the w n B A too, great owners in the w NBA investing and they're getting a lot out of it because of that.

00:21:29
Speaker 3: I think these single single entity ownership model for new leagues. I think it's the way to go because you can really build that infrastructure from consistency across all of all of the markets, and you know, and then then you can maybe bring in investors to buy some of the footanchists.

00:21:47
Speaker 2: But if you just realize how much money this takes to get started, and I try to explain to the players things, so just happen it takes millions. They look at me, like millions and million. I go, yes, millions and millions, billions sometimes and they go huh, and like that's why I want them to understand the business. I mean when you go to wimblan even understand that, or if you go to a small tournament, understand it what people go through to put design for us.

00:22:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's important for players to understand just the business side of it.

00:22:17
Speaker 2: I think it's such a.

00:22:17
Speaker 1: Great basics, it's a great I think it's something that we should be teaching at school actually also as financial literacy and things like that. We are here in Malaga for the Billy Jing King Cup. So I want to talk to you a little bit about the relationship with particularly with ELF Cosmetics, who's now you know, ELF has really supported iHeartRadio, the women's there's great networks. They've really put their money where their mouth is. If you don't hear it, you don't know it, you don't it, if you don't see it, all the things, So that that's a start. Also, of course they're now a sponsor of the Billaging King Cup. I know how important it is. I talked about this, you know, with Corey from from ELF the.

00:22:59
Speaker 2: She's market chief marketing off. She's she's a pistol.

00:23:02
Speaker 1: I love her amazing but we but Billy, I said to her, you know, one of the things about women's tennis, for example, is we've had great sponsors through the years. And obviously you know that both of you know so well. The Virginia Slims was like such a catalyst, you know, clearly not the greatest sponsor, considering it was smoking.

00:23:18
Speaker 2: That's a whole other story.

00:23:19
Speaker 1: They yeah, but they but they are marketed, but they were incredible partners. So how important is it for the both of you to work with a company like ELF and so many other companies that.

00:23:30
Speaker 2: You work with here at the Billy Jean King Cup.

00:23:32
Speaker 1: But how important is it to have a company like them, for example, who really the demographic, the diversity, the equality.

00:23:39
Speaker 2: The board philosophically perfectly.

00:23:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, So tell me about that, Tell me about the meeting.

00:23:45
Speaker 2: How important it was for both of you disruptors with a kind heart.

00:23:49
Speaker 3: I think there's not that often, right when you have a partner who has the same values and is trying to help you use that platform right to inspire others. And I think you know, just the way that they activate, like everything they do, they don't just slap a logo on anything. They really build the fact that they have you here the Tennis podcast. Yeah, they have Sarah Spain from iHeart, They have a bunch of editors and influencers. They are all in and that those partners are very very hard to come by, and the product is amazing and I think because of them. You know, we've added this Power of Women's Sports Summit to the Billy Jenkin Cup because we believe that tennis has been amazing in paying equally exposure.

00:24:44
Speaker 2: Although we can.

00:24:45
Speaker 3: Talk about three sets for the woman and five for the men, which we think the two is terrible exactly, So the big events and in the Billy Jenkin Cup, obviously because of Gamebridge, we're able to give equivalent price money to the Davis Cup, So that is an important philosophy. But the thing that we love about ALF is that we have been able to launch this Power of Women's Sports Summit alongside the Billie Jean King Cup, and to have dialogue and to bring leaders together from all types of businesses who care about women's sports. There is a huge opportunity and I love that they are bold disruptors and if you ever you know, if you looked in the dictionary and you had Billy Jean King, you would have a bold disruptor right next door. And so I think that collaboration is perfect, and I think what they're trying to do in bringing data and facts to this change the Board campaign that's incredible. You can't just have one woman, you have to have three or more to have things shift. And so it's amazing to have a partner who really activates and wants to tell your story. And I mean, I don't think we've had one since way back in Philip Morris Days, and like you said, this is a product that young girls and women can really they use so it's a perfect fit.

00:26:14
Speaker 2: And they're really inclusive. They just love it. But they don't care what your background is. They don't care about anything, just people and they love It's just very big on inclusion, which I love. And anybody wants to wear this makeup doesn't have to just be a girl Ei. There could be anybody else. It's fun. But I just love Elf. When I said Elf, what's that? And then with the eyes, you know, the lips in the the face, I was like, God, what a great name. And I know other thing.

00:26:45
Speaker 3: Too is they really are big on helping underserved community. Their products are affordable. That is huge, and it's you know, it's a bad excess. I mean our our brands and values aligned.

00:27:03
Speaker 1: Yes, so well, and that's really the I mean the real I mean, you already talked about a line at the start, how you know, having back in the day it was fed Cup, Federation Cup, now the Billie Jean King Cup. It is where you start kids at the grassroots of tennis. You know, the if is so important for the grassroots of tennis.

00:27:19
Speaker 2: And you guys just did the junior David Cup and Junior Billy Jean King Cup. I mean, that's what we want. Those are the kids that are going to grow up and be our future leaders. They're going to be great players, some of them. You know, only one percent really make it in a sport at the pro level, at the real elite level. But you can stay in your sport. That's what's important. Look at what you're doing now. I mean you used to play, but now you're doing your show and you're still in the sport plus other things. But the point is that you have a long life's conduit tennis. I think kids should understand that if you love tennis and you don't think you're going to be the best, don't worry. There'll be something that you're good at and you can stay in the sport because we need them. We need them to stay in tennis. And tennis with all the research, especially in the States with the Mayo Clinic, it is the healthiest sport in the world. So I love giving the gift of tennis anybody because oh, that's all the discussion, but right now, but tennis is the healthiest sport. I don't you guys listen to my podcast pickleball. Actually they actually orthopedics. I'm not gonna have to No, you will not. Orthopedic surgions come to us all the times that you cannot believe how many more injuries are in pickleball. Yes, it's unbelievable.

00:28:33
Speaker 1: I guess they can't cite it for the people in the back, Billy.

00:28:36
Speaker 2: So anyway, people that love your pickleball, just make sure your train enough. But why don't you just play tennis as well? Because just hit in the little service box. That's what Lana and I do now, just hit we warm up in the little She could kill me just playing the service box. And I don't understand why people don't do that. They we should break it up. Even the pros practice half court.

00:28:57
Speaker 1: We don't even practice all agree, Oh, Billy, we could gone for it. We don't have enough time, I know.

00:29:01
Speaker 2: I want to give people ideas who played to this that you don't have to play points. Just drill and hit the ball. It's so much fun to feel the ball against the streets.

00:29:10
Speaker 1: Okay, So, but don't worry, Billy, because everyone who listens to this podcast also feels the.

00:29:14
Speaker 2: Same thing about it. I hope, and if they don't why you're listening to get the kids, but get the other people to pick it up, and they don't have to be children. Get older people, get it, whatever age group, especially the children, because it becomes a habit. They'll have it the rest.

00:29:26
Speaker 1: I know when parents get their kids in pickleball, I'm like, what are you doing? But listen, let's get onto the rant.

00:29:31
Speaker 2: Listen. But I want to know, Billy. I don't the sound kills me.

00:29:36
Speaker 1: I want to know because we are here for Billy Jean king Cup. I want to know your favorite story from Billy Jean king Cup back in the day playing and as a coach, and same for you Alana as a player, as.

00:29:48
Speaker 2: A point I love concepts right and to create opportunities. So the first year was nineteen sixty three at Queen's Club. I was on the US team. They invited sixteen countries to get it started to see if they thought it might work or might not work. And I was nineteen and Darlene Hard was our best player in the US and I was number two in Carol Caldowell, who is my friend in my roommate a lot of times from Santa Monica. She was the third player. But I remember standing for photos and saying how excited I was this and I poor things. I kept yelling at them all week. We have to win the first one. So when we look at the Cup thirty forty years from now, we'll see the USA was the first one to ever win it. We're going to make history, because you know how much I love history anyway, and they're looking at me like, what what do you care about? I go, no, you don't understand. This is so important because this is going to get bigger and better, and we have to be the first.

00:30:42
Speaker 1: So when I go to my name is going to be on this trophy one day, and I want to be the first. No, the USA was going to be end No, but you know what I mean, it is now the Billy J.

00:30:49
Speaker 2: King part. I did not know that. I'm so excited. But they started Federation Cup because it was the fiftieth birthday of the IF and I don't think a lot of people know that the Davis Cup started in nineteen hundred with Dwight Davis, who was the captain of the Harvard team started it. So they had a huge jump on US sixty three years. Yeah, sixty three years ahead of US, so we're always starting a little late, but we're getting there. And we had our one hundred and thirty seven Nations, as Elana said, and you wa this year? Did you win it?

00:31:32
Speaker 4: We did?

00:31:32
Speaker 2: When it we were down match points to Australia, which is Margaret Smith. I didn't know that and Leslie turn I was saving that for the you know, the go in there and I yelled at Darlene, I'll never forget. She's playing the left court and I was playing the right court because I always played whatever they didn't want. I'm one of those, yeah you my dream potd I go, what would you like to play the right or the left? And they go, I want this? I go, okay, I played the other side whatever. And so I played the right court with Darling because she won the left court and she was a better player than I was. She should be there and the way her game was. But I could see her, I could feel her like her was waiting and that she we're gonna got to be the first we're on the court. We're on the court now it rains, so but that's what she's thinking. I could feel her saying, well, we might lose this. We're right now close to a match point, I said, Darlene, you know I wandered, I go I looked at and we're gonna win this, come on, and I saw her just go okay, and all of a sudden intensity came back. Everything we got so lucky. I don't know how we want. I don't remember what happened or anything, but we want such thing as luck. We probably were very lucky. But I'm so happy because we are the first name on the Cup no matter what. And I every time I look at it, I remember those matches and what happened the very first one. So I've been a part of this from day one to now and it has just been amazing to see the growth. And I Australia and suck it. Is that what you're saying, No, Ozzie, I think you want the second one, but it's not the first. Ozzie's are probably as good a country as any. And how the kids, the players play for the country and they know it's a privilege. They love it. They have numbers on whatever were you. I was number twenty five, so you were the twenty fifth player to play. And I think what the Australians have done great. I want names and numbers on the back. So I'm everyone thinks I'm totally out to lunch. But the point is I do want that and I love it. When I saw the Australians, you've never seen you. It's a lunch in my life. So Alicia moultenmull I heard you. Alisia Mulloch. Sorry, god, it's small Mulleck. She's such a she was so great and she was showing me the numbers and explaining it to me, because what are those numbers?

00:33:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, Derry Gavlova's fifty, So I said, real the hell, I'm half a year sore?

00:33:52
Speaker 4: Are they?

00:33:52
Speaker 2: There are one hundred and something? No, fifty seven? Fifty eight? Now I think, yeah, yeah, I was.

00:33:57
Speaker 1: I'm actually the longest tenured Australian come Billy Jean King Cup player. Well, I think it was eighteen, but it really should have been more than that because there was a couple of times where I got left off the team because I was insubordinate apparently, so they left them. It's Billy because the two times they left me off the team, I won Wimbledon double.

00:34:16
Speaker 2: So that wasn't too smart.

00:34:19
Speaker 1: It was not very smart with the player that you know why they kicked me off because I spoke up for the players, Billy. They didn't like it, you know how that feels. I do know, Yeah, so wonder they didn't kick you off a couple of times. The last was their last, and I think they both tournament and it's right, all right, Alana for you first and most like just great story that you can Yeah, I have so many, but.

00:34:40
Speaker 3: I mean a great one and then not so great one. So in nineteen seventy three, the fed Cup was actually in South Africa and I was the reserve on the team because I was a young little snapper, a snapper and it's always politics, right, I think, hello wine, and but I did get to practice and be with the team and we actually won the competition in South Africa with beat Great Britain in the finals. And it's actually funny because I know Great Britain are in the semi finals, yere, and I don't think they've ever won it before.

00:35:17
Speaker 2: Have they ever won it?

00:35:18
Speaker 3: I don't think social but you can fact check that. But I do know that they were in the finals against South Africa and we brought them over. Joe Wade and Whinnie Wooldridge when he shore at the time, and I mean the whole country stopped. You know, it was a huge deal. So I think again that representing your country, there's nothing like it. And then you know, obviously because of a part eight, South Africa actually was kicked out of the Federation Cup at the time in nineteen seventy eight.

00:35:52
Speaker 2: So that was a little bit bigger than.

00:35:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, right exactly. In seventy seven, it was kind of scary. We were playing in Eastbourne, yeah, and they threw flour on the court, they threw oil on the court. We actually ended up having like twenty four to seven security and so we were then kicked out. So but you know, I think even now South Africa is back in the competition, they're playing in some of the smaller regional groups. And again I think that first feeling of being chosen to represent your country and wearing that laser. I've still got all of mine somewhere. There's nothing I keep everything. There's nothing like that.

00:36:35
Speaker 2: I'm a holder. I I'm a holder. I love being captain too, or coach captain, and that's a full time job. Because I went to tournaments, I built relationships with the players. I'm probably luck his captain in the world though, because one players number one or former number one on the team together unbelievable. I think I had Lindsay Davenport, Monica Sellis, Jennifer Capriotti, we had Venus, and Venus and Serena came along. I mean we married. Joe Fernandez was amazing. She helped me when I had to speak Spanish in Spain in those days. She helped me get my speech because I can fanatically do it, but I don't really know it. But I told her what I want to say and she helped and her mother helped me. It's so Sylvia, I'll never it's so cute. And I told the audience and they all stood up and they you know, the mom and Mary Joe helped with this speech and it was so great. So no, but as a captain, I'm one of the I just know, I'm the luckiest probably captain never to live because of having those good players. And you have to treat the A players I call them in the B or B plus or A minus. Everyone's different, and you really have to be a psychologist. I think if you want to be a great captain and coach, you've got to be a great psychologist and I've had years and years of therapy and that really helped me. Yeah, I agreed.

00:38:02
Speaker 1: Listen, you know, guys, I know I've done a little bit of coaching in my time as well. And people say, and I said, yeah, the excess and o's a one thing, and giving someone a game plan is another. But all you do the whole time is basically become a sports psychologist or a psychologist in general.

00:38:16
Speaker 2: Well you can just wait.

00:38:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you can wait, just serving here, Okay.

00:38:21
Speaker 3: Well, I think Billy has this ability to see the world from sixty thousand feet and you know, be able to have a vision right for the end result. And I think that's an amazing quality. And also she's the most persistent person that I've ever met in my life. Like she never gives up and she always starts over. She doesn't take anything personally, and that's huge because if you don't take things personally, you can always be in the solution and been looking to move forward. And the other thing that I'll say about Billy Jean, she is a great united People think of Billy as being a fighter, but that is really not her style. Her style is to bring people together and to find the commonality in reaching a goal together and she'll only fight if she has to, but that is not her inclination. It's always I think she's the people's champion and she's an incredible united.

00:39:30
Speaker 1: It's before you say anything, Before you say anything, pressure is a privilege.

00:39:36
Speaker 2: I can tell you that that's a fair story.

00:39:37
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, I can tell you when I've had situations happen. One in particular was the Margaret Court situation in Australia with the naming of the Cord and you know, it was the time that she came out and said some pretty derogatory, terrible things about the about our community and it's just the lgbt Q plus community in total.

00:39:56
Speaker 2: And I was getting a lot.

00:39:58
Speaker 1: Of calls from orders and TV people in Australia, and you know, because there was a big story there. And I remember texting or calling you and I said, Billy, help me, help me word what I need to word in this situation. And I've never forgotten the story you told me was Renee, there are people when you have your name on a building, and when you have your name on a court, and you of course have the you know, National tennis and in Queen's name after you, and then there's Arthur Ash Stadium, and then there's the Rod Labor Court Arena in Australia, and then of course there's.

00:40:30
Speaker 2: The Margaret Court Arena.

00:40:33
Speaker 1: And you said, everyone that walks through those gates or those doors might be straight, might be gay, might be all of the things, might be trans, might be anybody, and you should be inviting to all of those people no matter what. If you want to have your name on an establishment, you have to understand people walking through those date gates and doors are everybody. So you have to be inclusive of everybody. And I thought, oh my god, what a brilliant way to put it. Rather than slandering someone like Margaret, you just say, if you're going to have your name on something, that's what you need to understand about how important it is to accept everybody because they're paying money to come into your doors, into your game.

00:41:12
Speaker 2: Yes, and so I'll never forget that. And so the reason I tell that.

00:41:15
Speaker 1: Story is I want people to understand that you're like my north star when it comes to because everyone knows I'm I can be a little brash in my comments, really, yes, but I have learned Billy Caitlin's very proud of me. I don't tweet as much anymore. Actually, I've gone off of Twitter. I'm onto Blue Sky now for those of you are, they're Blue Sky, get on it.

00:41:33
Speaker 2: It's much happier place. But a million new people every day, oh lots lots.

00:41:38
Speaker 1: And now that I've got you, Billy, you know you, Alana, hopefully you know more and more people.

00:41:42
Speaker 2: But but I it's so.

00:41:44
Speaker 1: Important and you are so important because you're people think that you're a fighter, Like Alana said, so when you were telling me that story is it's so true. Billy doesn't kiss people off. She unites behind a common cause of a conversation as opposed to, you know, even a thing with the Saudi. You're like, if we're not there, we can't change minds.

00:42:03
Speaker 2: And I'm not sure what to do that. This is a really tough one. Yeah, although I do know that unless you have engagement, yep, you can't change. So that's the difficult there, difficulty. But I also don't like what's going on there. But how do we break down doors? How do you know? When the WTA went there, they actually did all these programs that are going to continue every day of the year. They're not going to just be there when the players are at the tournament. Is this going to make a difference or not? I don't know. I know Muslim girls, we're so excited to come and watch, especially Coco winning, and so what if we get a champion from there, a woman champion? Yep, you know. I don't know. These are questions I have. I think about things all the time. But how do we make it better for everyone? And you know that everyone wants more money all the time. There's a lot of money there's It's a very difficult thing. Is because money equals opportun unity. So I don't know, but I think it was up to the WTA. I'm not the boss. I'm not in the WTA that way at all. But I think it's up to the players today to help shape the future. But I don't know. I'd love to hear, but I'd love to hear from them what their experience was.

00:43:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think what is important and I think what you should share as we come to the close is that.

00:43:23
Speaker 1: But you still own me what what you admire about Alana.

00:43:26
Speaker 2: So I want to do that, but I think order to start and stop though, I think just.

00:43:32
Speaker 3: Give some clarity on. The WTA was founded on three principles.

00:43:37
Speaker 2: And it wasn't this equality and social justice and all. Here's the three things. The original nine in nineteen seventy came up with the three things, and we had our first tour Virginia Slims in seventy one when you were born. Really, thank you. Here are the three These are the three things that any girl in this world, if she were good enough, would finally have a place to compete.

00:43:59
Speaker 4: Really.

00:44:01
Speaker 2: Number two, that she would be appreciated for her accomplishments, not only her looks. And that's all they talked about. Then they still talk too much, but it's better than it was. Number Three, and really important to all of us is we'd be able to make a living money playing the sport we love. Those are the three things. I didn't get into equality. I didn't get into anything. I just wanted to. You know, we had this place for the future generations, and everything we did was about the future generations. Every time we had a meeting, every time we had a discussion. I don't think players are doing that anymore.

00:44:38
Speaker 3: Well, you say they live in your dream.

00:44:40
Speaker 2: They're living the dream, but they need to bring the sport. I mean, I remember tip none of my publicist telling me. He says, I don't feel like the players bring the sport with him anymore. And what he's saying is it's our job to motivate others to play, to appreciate what we have in our history, but also take it to the next step. Got to take your game with you. And I don't think the players think like that anymore. We have to change that again. We've got to go back to not back, but forward to getting them to think about the future generation, not just about themselves. I want them to start saying we and us and talk about others and not just talk about themselves the eye word, and it's really really important. And I don't think the players. I don't know what. I don't know what you guys. I think we want to keep taking and growing our sport, allowing kids to play. There's a place for them to play, create more opportunities, but it takes work with every generation. I mean, Correna Scott King and I probably won't get this right as a saying. She says that you never win, that every generation has to work and whatever to win, every to have freedom, and every generation has to do that. So it's so important. I didn't get that right. But it's about it's about out well, it's about give ever wins freedom that every generation has to earn and keep fighting every generation. But this generation needs to understand that. I'm not sure they do well well, they need to do that because it's it's our responsibility. There. We are making more money than than we ever thought possible. Well, I mean I thought we'd make millions. That's good. Now they are. But the point is with that, I think comes the responsibility. It goes very deep, and that's where we need to connect history with the future because the more you know about history, the more you know about yourself. But the most important thing, it helps us shape the future. And I know what, I don't know if players think about that today. And we have to create that culture within the WTA again and make it exciting and make us think about others not just ourselves. I think it creates it's so much more fun when you think about others. Anyway, Talking about Alana, which I would love to talk about, I told you she was a great salesperson before, but what I really love about her is that she is totally loyal. She's amazingly loyal to people and her friends, very giving. She's an aries that's why. Oh that's true. Is that what you are?

00:47:09
Speaker 4: Yep?

00:47:09
Speaker 2: Of course. Anyway, she's very giving and you should know that. We're like a diapote now. And she's really smart. I love smart. I love intelligent. She's really intelligent. And a lot of people, I don't think realize that. They always look at me, and I'm like, no, look at her, look at Halana, No, look at me. She's the one that really makes things work. And I just think we really love each other. I think, you know, love is really important.

00:47:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, we complement each other. I think, as Billy says, she dreams it and then I'm trying.

00:47:39
Speaker 2: To build it.

00:47:40
Speaker 3: That's true. But I do think, you know, being here in Malaga, and when you think about the Billy Jean King Kap, Billy hates the word legacy. She says, others define that. She wants to keep going right every single day.

00:47:52
Speaker 2: No, We're measured on our contribution. Yeah, and so I think other people think about us. We should be measured on our contribution.

00:48:01
Speaker 3: And we really look at this competition as a platform to empower young women and girls and others. And I think we will be judged. The success will be judged when of these one hundred and thirty seven countries or more have more women representation on their federation boards, have more women coaches, have more women in media, have more women in officiating. Because I think we can use it as a platform to build. And the great thing about Billy, it's never about what we're doing now, what can we help build for the future. So we really feel, you know, it's a privilege to be in this position and we take it very seriously.

00:48:45
Speaker 1: Well, I remember Billy telling to me, I think it was thirty nine years of age at the time. I was playing World Team Tennis, and she said, keep playing as long as you can a kid, And I said, Billy, I'm thirty nine, pretty sure I'm doing that. But she always encouraged me to keep going.

00:48:57
Speaker 2: Because people when you cannot play as a Oh no, I wish I could still, it's a killer.

00:49:02
Speaker 1: Especially with the money right now.

00:49:03
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, don't.

00:49:05
Speaker 5: That that's another decision, you know, I think Renee, I think it's fantastic that you have stayed in the tennis.

00:49:15
Speaker 3: Business, that you love the sport, that you continue to promote it, and you're always trying to learn new things and help grow the sports. I think what you're doing with the tennis podcast, what you're doing with iHeart uh and just having you here, I think is fantastic because I think every generation has something to add to the history, but more important, the future. And I have never seen anyone other than belie Jin with as much passion and purpose for everything they do. And I have never seen anyone attend more women's sports. If I want to know anything about women's sports, give me to just go to your feed. And so honestly, you are truly committed, and I think we're lucky to have you promoting and loving women's sports, and tennis is just one of the very few things you do a whole lot more so, thank you, oh.

00:50:15
Speaker 1: Thank you, guys. It's been an absolute pleasure. I tell you, I'm not kidding. Get your butts to Malaga. It's going to be here next year.

00:50:23
Speaker 2: No, well, either way, get.

00:50:26
Speaker 1: Hit to Maliga, the third largest I think in Spain.

00:50:29
Speaker 2: In Spain, it is truly beautiful, beautiful.

00:50:32
Speaker 1: Absolutely beautiful. I went down to Marlbay a couple of days ago. Well, there's some beautiful tennis results down there. Cruise The bottom line is wherever the Billy Jean King camp is, please make an effort to attend.

00:50:42
Speaker 2: Come.

00:50:43
Speaker 1: It's great atmosphere, what you guys have done, what you're building with all your sponsors, particularly with ELF. It's been great because there've been such a conduit for women's sports in so many ways, particularly at Iurheart and here at the village in king Cup changing the boardrooms and they are changing the boardrooms. I mean so many people, so many and he could learn so much from them. And by the way, they're doing very well for themselves, so that's probably a reason to put some more women.

00:51:05
Speaker 2: I know you do well.

00:51:07
Speaker 3: They are amazing. But I don't want to forget game Bridge, who are ensuring that we can pay people equally for the men, and Microsoft who are helping with technology. Franklin, Templeton, Magellan.

00:51:21
Speaker 2: We have all. They're all the relationship that you guys have reships, so.

00:51:27
Speaker 3: Nothing happens without partners, and so we're very grateful for those. And again, you need the best athletes, you need great facilities, and we're excited about turning the ship and building the future of the Beiligian kinkup.

00:51:44
Speaker 1: Well, I can promise you guys, I will be wherever you're at.

00:51:47
Speaker 2: It's a pleasure to be with you. Guys.

00:51:49
Speaker 1: You're two awesome, amazing people. I do consider you my friends. I'm really lucky to have friends. And it's been great and I can't wait for the matches today to start the semi final STUF here a Billy Jinking Cup today.

00:52:02
Speaker 2: Wherever we decide to put.

00:52:03
Speaker 1: This podcast, whether it be today or you know, in a week or in two days, it's just been awesome to be here. I'm so happy just to be your guys' friends. So thanks, thanks for thanks for being my noth star.

00:52:16
Speaker 3: Thank you for always showing up.

00:52:18
Speaker 2: I tried. Listen, I've got showing up. Its huge and wedding by the way, listen, I do show up.

00:52:22
Speaker 1: You don't see it, but I do have passion tattooed on my arm.

00:52:26
Speaker 4: So that's.

00:52:28
Speaker 2: Passion. Not on my as, not on my ass.

00:52:31
Speaker 1: I definitely don't have it, although maybe I.

00:52:33
Speaker 2: Should think about it.

00:52:35
Speaker 1: It's on my right arm, Billy, because I'm right handed, and that's what I believe in passion. If you're not passionate about things in your life, you'll never be successful, as you have shown.

00:52:43
Speaker 2: Both of you through the years.

00:52:44
Speaker 1: Fun Yeah, of course, you know, Billy, we could Lanna tell everyone that story that you told me. It was pretty funny. You said about there are two people in the world. Two people in the world, some talk ten thousand words a day, and then there's you and Billy.

00:53:01
Speaker 3: Well, Billie's pretty full.

00:53:04
Speaker 2: She's pretty, very very full. I'll stop talking, all right, all right.

00:53:13
Speaker 1: And by the way, before before I do want to get this on the record. Congratulations Billy on being the first ever athlete, female athlete or athlete to get the Congressional Female Female Athlete.

00:53:24
Speaker 2: Yes, same with the Presidential Medal of Freedom. We want an athlete. I mean, I'm like, really, I'm the first. I should not have been the first, and we have so many Well I hate.

00:53:33
Speaker 1: To say this, but if anyone's going to be the first to get the Congressional Medal of Honor, Billy Jean, we have more.

00:53:38
Speaker 2: Now, congratulations the last. You never want to be the first. Lad. You always want to open the door, Billy.

00:53:45
Speaker 1: You you want to be the first. You want to be the first, and the bloody trophy and now you want the first metal Well done.

00:53:50
Speaker 2: On that note, she's smiling. Guld have got it.

00:53:55
Speaker 4: Here we go.

00:53:56
Speaker 2: I have all these I'm going to try to get it posthumously for them. Are you kidding? See here we go? You heard it here first.

00:54:01
Speaker 3: So maybe this is the first series in this podcast.

00:54:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, there you go. Well, I don't even tell the story of pressures or privilege was fed cup? You know with Lindsay Downport. Do you want to tell us a story? If you want, you're gonna have to edit. I mean, it's up too long. No, I was in I can tell exactly. I mean I can. For bloody, it's appropriate because we're playing Spain. We were playing now, I mean who we're Our host country is Spain and it was a raunche in kamcheetah. Anyway, and Lindsay Downport, who was number one of the world four times. You know, she's six ' three and of course, like I'm getting its bad neck because they're all much taller than I am. I'm looking up all the time. And she comes over to me and she's panicking. She's got to play a Ron Sanchez Vicario, who she ha what's her problem? No, no, it doesn't matter. And she was uptight because she wants to win so badly. This is what happens when you play for your country. It just adds to the tension. She says, oh, help me, I don't know what to do. And I said, okay, you're going to beat her today, And I said, just remember, champions adjust and press is a privilege. She's looking down at me because she's so tall. Oh that's great, that's going to really help. Thanks, And she won. But that's where that that's where pressures of privileged and champions have just come from.

00:55:16
Speaker 1: It's such a great gam now because a lot of players touch that. I see them touch a lot of players I would touch it on their way. You can't touch the kipling one unless.

00:55:26
Speaker 4: You like.

00:55:29
Speaker 2: Personally, if you're a professional athlete, that kipling one is not worth anything. I hate it every time I used to look at it. Seriously, you're going to treat winning and losing the same. If you show me a player that does that, they're not a winner, so they're a loser. So every time I see the kimpling.

00:55:45
Speaker 1: I go bullshit, Right, you know, Mike draw on that note, Pressures of privilege.

00:55:51
Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure. I love you both so much.

00:55:54
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, by guys, blessing.

00:56:02
Speaker 2: You've got You've got enough for a few podcasts classic. You mentioned that your blessing list, Yes, every morning?

00:56:10
Speaker 1: About that?

00:56:12
Speaker 2: Well, just people I love. I make sure I put on summer on. Sometimes summer on like Susan Williams on every time, because she changed every time. I see, it's your fault. I've had this such great life. You know, I just saw her at the Women's Sports Foundation. She was there, she said, she said, I know you were at the w n B. I okay, cool, sorry, nice problem. Was it the Liberty game that night? No, it was the playoffs. Believe me, I went to one. I love the Liberty. The reason I asked you that question is can say I'm lucky. My parents are always on it, my brother, and then there's different people in my life. Alana is of course on it all the time.

00:56:46
Speaker 5: Well, I just I have this generosity that's huge from gratitude.

00:56:53
Speaker 4: You're right, conduct induct conduct in conduct