Kyler’s Contract, Julio Jones, and Sounds from Training Camp (with Ian Rapoport)

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Speaker 1: Be Around the NFL podcast is not young, that's sure. From the Chris west Link podcast studio. It's Around the NFL Wednesday edition. Dan Hans is here with some heroes, Mark Sessler, Greg Rosenthal. I mean the pickup boys of the news and the intensity of the news. We've gone zero to about six and sixty here in our league. Dan and I had a chance to go out and have a beer yesterday and in the course of we're seventeen stories broke while we were watching the Crawl on the television in the corner of the room. And we're gonna get to all of them. Julio Jones's new home, the official start of the Trey Lance era. Michael Thomas is on the field, the Saga of Shack Leonard. Excited about that. But first right off the bat, and this again, this tells you how things have changed, how things have picked up. We have no time for anymore just messing around you. Everyone's like, hey, how was your weekend? Well, you know, the summer and they don't any how. Stuff in Japan. You know, you know, insiders respect insiders, okay, and we know what I've done in my career. I broke the Tom Brady stolen jersey story amongst many things. And that's life is the A T N media insiders. So when I see someone else that's thriving in this particular sector of sports media, I just respected. And that's why we're gonna bring on right now. From Philadelphia Eagles training camp, Ian Rappaport, who had what I like to call just this is again insider respect, insider maximum scoopage this Kyler Murray story, which is just tremendous and we're gonna get into it. And also whatever else is going on with Ian as he travels the Northeast at camps. Ian, what's up, buddy? How are you? Because this isn't OLDTV? Can I just sit back like Chris Now, You're good. You're good. It's gonna be on YouTube. But the look on the ins face suggests that the respect may not go back to you, Dan to to equal amounts. Well, that's that's resting Ian face. You have to seeing my face while he was talking. It was not it was not resting in face. So let's get into it right now, buddy. The Kyler story is great because you we hear the the big contract and finally five years two thirty and a half million, and you're thinking, alright, this story is over. But then we learn via rap sheet that there's a clause in there, an independent study clause, an addendum that basically asks Kyler Murray to work harder, to study harder, to be more focused on the job. I like, we we like learning how the sausage is made when it comes to sports media, How did this come about? And how did it all play out for you here? All right? So you know, I know a lot of people are kind of wondering, like, and I was on the Dan Patrick Show earlier and they said, well, who benefits from this being out? And I'm like, news doesn't really work like that, Like I mean, I guess maybe it does sometimes, but not as much as people think. This was sort of really as simple as I knew, there was a baseball clause and Kyla Murray's contract, so as soon as he signs it, it gets put into the NFL p A database and the NFL database. So if you have the right sources, and honestly it's not that hard, you can get it. So you say, hey, Kyler's signed contract, let me get a copy of it, and you could take a look at it, and I wanted to see the baseball clause because there is one is guaranteed money void if he plays organized baseball for any team. Okay, so that's what I was looking for, and then I saw this other thing and I'm like, I had to call and actually called a generic Burkhard who did the deal uh with Kyle m sort of for Kyler Murray to make sure this was right. An independent study clause which essentially guarantees that he studies four hours a week by himself at home or whatever, studying the tablet, which you know, teams can track to make sure that he's doing his homework and if he does in his guaranteed money voids. And it is true, it is real. He agreed to it. It was important to owner Michael Bidwill that if they made the commitment to him monetarily, he also on paper makes the commitment to them. Um, it's just I've never seen it before. I just haven't was was he pissed the agent because I immediately thought when this got out there that, uh, if I'm Kyler Murray, I'm upset if if I'm the agent, I agreed to the terms and maybe you you figure it's gonna get out somehow. But if I'm the team, I'm upset too because I don't know if you thought this when you put the story out, But I feel like this story is going to follow Kyler Murray for a long time. It's not gonna be one of those two or three days stories. It's gonna be something people bring up. Let's say, if the Cardinals don't have a playoff win in two years, like, it's still gonna be a topic. I agree with you. This is you know, every time he struggles, every time he misreads the coverage, and it's gonna happen to everyone. It's gonna be a thing. And I I don't think anybody looks good in this, honestly. Were they upset upset at you? No? Because it's going to come out, I mean, And that's what you know. There's stories I find out all the time where like people will be like, oh, like, you know, do you have to say this? And a lot of times the answer is the same. If it's not me, it's gonna be someone else. You put something in a contract, one of the most high profile contracts in the NFL, it's coming out. You're gonna find out. So it's either me or it's someone else. Um, So I don't think they were I don't know. Least they didn't say they were angry at me. It was more like, look, the team went to a place that they weren't previously planning to go to. Money wise, So Kyler got the money he wanted, he got the average, you got the guarantee got all of that. The team had to get there, so as part of the give and take, the player in the age and had to agree to stuff they really didn't in there either. But one thing that Burkhard was saying was that Kyle studies this so much anyway, so really who cares? And if that is true, then yes, who cares? But it just looks bad. But if that's true, because you know, Kyler last year had a quote on record saying I'm not one of those guys that's gonna sit there and kill myself watching film, and we heard there were there were whispers about this. It probably shouldn't. But the contract also has a specific clause about video games, which we've heard that that's been an issue with Kyler Murray as well. Cliff Kingsbury says this isn't an issue for him. He had nothing to do with this being in the contract, and you mentioned that the owner did. How would the owner know that this is an issue. I mean, he's in the building to some degree, but it must have bubbled up from coaching from someone inside the organization saying this is a problem with Kyler Murray. He's not doing the work, whether he says the agent says he is or not. How did it all percolate into such a distinct issue into the contract over the past couple of years. Yeah, I mean, you know, the most important position, uh, the owner is involved. Um, I think it makes sense that if there were questions that the owner would know. And you know, I think the other thing is, this is not my money, and it's not really Cardinal's money, it's the owner's money. So if he's going to give this much money, he wants something for himself to say these are some sort of safeguards. Does it make sense to me? Like, I don't know, but it's not my money, right, So he basically, in his mind, is safeguarding his money by making sure that Kyler is doing the studying he wants. You mentioned the video games and I was on t A with Mike Yam a couple of days ago, and I mentioned the video game part of it, where he has to be paying attention to playing video games, and he goes, well, you know, Kyler is a gamer, and I'm like, well, yes, but that just means he's good at it, Like it still means he's just playing video games like the rest of us. But how can That's why, that's why it's an embarrassing clause, because how can they track this Anyways? They're saying that he has to do the four hours, which by the way, is like a pretty low bar here, uh, four hours over the course of a weeks, like Tom Brady's action to right, it's a low bar. But my point is that the reason why I've been in two places the last two days, and this contract has come up from multiple people, coaches, MS players, like like one of the Eagles coaches here was like, Jalen might do that in a day. But it's embarrassing. But it's also it was you can't track it. That's why it's stupid, because it's making the Cardinals look like kind of a Mickey Mouse operation because even even by putting this in there, it's it's embarrassing him. But you also couldn't follow up on it. He could absolutely be doing something else while he has the iPad on and tracking it. They're not like they're not they don't have someone at his house with a camera. I thought they track. Then they were saying that he can't be doing TV and wild gaming, so he could easily just like have two things on it once. Well it's well, that's right and right, it's all bad. But that's why it all feels so petty. But that's what I mean. I mean, does feel like if you're from the outside, it feels like the Cardinals. They're like telling us, they're telling everyone, we're a little conflicted about this contract. Like we were pretty sure, like he's the guy and we know he can be special, but we also have some doubts. So we're gonna throw this language in the deal. And even though we can't really enforce what we're saying, we want to enforce. It was important to us that it was in the writing so we can potentially come back and use that if this whole thing goes to hell. It's just sloppy, and it does gets back to this this Cardinals situation. He and that sometimes you wonder how the ship is being run over there. So let me just counter that, and I'm not sort of arguing with you, but let me offer a counterpoint. That's okay. It's okay if they are on board with paying them all that money and then wanted to create themselves some outs, that is okay because reality is, if I don't know, maybe he's gonna end up studying more than he would. Maybe it is necessary. May be it is something that benefits them, and they say, the only way we're gonna get our money's worth is if this guy starts studying like a lot of the other quarterbacks, that is okay. It does it look bad, yes, it looks ridiculous, but maybe this plays out. And if they are unsure but sort of needed to pay him because that's where we are in this world, and he wanted a contract, like you know, there is a compromise, and this was the way they could do it and feel okay with it. I know it looks ridiculous, but I also think that's okay. Has anyone come to you since this story broke and said, by the way, this has been in another quarterbacks contract. Is this the first time this has ever happened to your knowledge? Yes, the first time it has ever happened. I thought, I haven't looked at every contract. I've thought about it, I I I cannot remember it in any other contract. And can you imagine if things do go sideways of the relationship crumbles between the team and the quarterback and they actually tried to recoup the salary and try to use this because they can just leave that game pass rolling. You know, he'll he'll put at the condensed version of when he's he's loving it right with these contracts, like they tell you so much about what was happening behind the scene, so obviously Ian, it feels like this has been something they've been concerned about for a long time, and now that it's literally in the contract, it's all laid bare for the rest of us. But it's very unusual. Then that was not a private conversation. It was something they felt compelled to make a legal part of a document. Well, that's a crazy thing to me, is like, if you put in a contract that things getting out, that is that's a good They talked about that. They weighed the options. They're like, we want that in the contract. Take Cutler is somewhere right now being like, oh, I lucked out like glad. This wasn't around when I was playing. Oh man, that's well, what about white color? Got to catch down? I just sat to come up with someone and was the first. Okay, yeah, that was the CD rom with nothing on it. That was that. He and you're at Eagles today. You were at Jets camp yesterday. Anything saucy to report from either location. This interview is held up because you were speaking with Howie Roseman. Literally, Oh, Ian's running a little late. He's speaking with the GM of the Eagles. He's an insider. Uh that is true. Yes, that is true. Um so let's see jets hands as you kind of stole my thunder a little bit. I gotta be honest. What what I mentioned? My little Aaron Rodgers? Uh, Aaron Rodgers, Zack Wilson nugget I saw, Oh did I what was it? I thought? Have no idea what you're talking about? Neither do I? Oh no did I? Oh you did? I did? Explain what happened? Explain yourself? So Wit texted with Ian checked in about the Kyler's story is and He's like, I'm a Jets camp and uh, we're talking a little bit. Zack Wilson gotta make it happen, and Ian, I'll see you up. Ian gave me a nugget about Aaron Rodgers and Zack Wilson, and I thought was already out there and you were just telling me and then which put out there. But I apologize. I was on the bad Lands podcast, which is a Jets podcast, and I mentioned that, and you know, I should have check out if that's insider stealing from insider. I don't know. I don't think can I seem to be the peacemaker? Now this is where where we're at now. Apologies. So here's the story. So I was at Jets and I didn't quite realize how maniacal Zack Wilson is as a worker. I mean, I knew he likes football a lot, like he's a real football junkie, Like he was at that tight ends camp thingy they did, and traveling around the country this summer to basically throw with his receivers like he loves football and he studies all the time. And so there's a story I was told. And like I even think maybe even a little like too much, like it might be like overkill, like he just he works like crazy, and so he Aaron Rodger just called him to check on him last season, nine o'clock on a Friday, and Rodgers is like, what are you doing? Like, are you at the facility? He's like yeah, He's like are you in the tape room right now? Yeah? He's like, dude, go home. And that was sort of obructive because like, you need to have some mental peace as a player. But also he does work incredibly hard. The Jets need to put in his contract maybe you can you reduce the film watching to some degree to be a more balanced individual. That that literally is why I heard this story, because that was the joke that was being made. Literally does because it didn't help too much. Right in my appearance on the bad Lands podcast, the fact that I cited you directly, at least I didn't put it out there is my reporting? Does that help at all? No? I like the idea of Aaron Rodgers and Zack Wilson as close buddies. I feel like they have some strange relationship things going on this offseason, like they could get into before. I'm just both of them had different stories about their off field paramount familiar quickly before We Let You Go, You you reported on Julio Jones, he's making six million dollar base salary. I'm just curious, is that guaranteed. I just saw that salary actually thought I was surprisingly high, and it made me wonder, like, is he a lock to make the team? Because if he doesn't have a great camp and he's due to make six million dollars, they might just kind of be like, sorry, Julio, um, you know it's not gonna work out. I don't know, is the answer. I will find out, because it's in a contract, so I'll find out. My assumption is, oh, yeah, there's a big bulk of that in signing bonus. I would assume some of My guess is it's a lot of it's guaranteed a lot of times. What happens is the there's per game roster bonuses basically like how much you get paid based on if you're healthy per game included in the base salaries. So there might be some of that in there, but it was a little more than I expected. I would I would say that is definitely the case for me as well. All Right, Ian, thank you for the time. By the way, you're wearing the NFL Network polo. They don't even send us them. That's that's an issue. But I'm not gonna Well, here's the thing I want to say something. You are team, you're someone that has some sway in the company, obviously is as the insider. And don't wear the polo when you're from your personal setup in your home, like when you're on t A or whatever and it's you, Garafolo and Pellicero and you're all wearing the matching polos in your basements. It's just kind of a weird look. I'd push back on that. That's just a suggestion. I graciously agreed to come onto your podcast and give you some knowledge and also have some witty banter and make fun of my polo in the house. He's just giving you some gave shot calls me and it's like, you don't have to wear a tie. It's amazing. Do you wear pants from the home set? No one, No one would know what's what's I mean? I mean, I'm sure you're wearing something down there, but is it? Is it a full pants such a situation currently, I'm sure we can get through an entire conversation without Mark asking about a man's lower half being exposed. But we couldn't do it well, I wear shorts or jeans um so whenever I like go to an event and have to wear the suit pants, and I was like, this is weird. Of course I don't have a belt with my suit pants, so it does feel a little bit like sweatpants. All right, Ian, I'm sorry about the Rodgers scoopage. There. We're gonna work that out privately. Thank you for joining us. Have a nice time at Eagles Camp. I will always happy to go on with you guys. Thank you very much for asking hand. Just don't ever text me again. No, not another alright, go down to just Mark, down to Mark Ssler. Thank you, buddy. All right, there he goes rap sheet. Does this feel I don't know, does this feel doomed, this this whole marriage or ultimately like Kyler and the Cardinals. Oh I thought you meant ustin rap sheet? No, I feel okay with the status of that relationship. Doesn't this feel like the beginning We will look back at this in five years from the very beginning we knew it was over. I just feel the whole, like the whole concept that five years from now Kyler Murray and Cliff Kingsbury and Steve Kim are all gonna be there as their contracts suggests. It does feel shaky to me. This feels like an image sure, sort of strange football team and organization in general. Right now, well right, the part at the Kyler contract thing is silly. The deal itself made sense. The contracts that bothered me this offseason. We're resigning Steve Kim in Cliff Kingsbury for five years on top of the year they already had, so they have a six year contract. They're not bidding against anyone that they made as big commitment in in an organization that felt like a little dysfunctional for no reason. And my guests would be Kyler outlast those two guys. But we'll see interest alright. We might not get any credibility as an insider for for unearthing um the fact that you know, people have watched Ian Rappaport on television for years and I've disturned and through my questioning what he wears on the lower half of his body, he's thinking he's wearing suit pants, it's shorts or that's a media insider thing. It's kind of marks beat though. Men's bodies, men's bodies closed, not nudity. He's actually wearing he's wearing garments that are shorts orgines. Well, yeah, I would have to call it. It was a good point. Do I get a large sound bite with a dolphin squealing and all this other business. You actually suggested we're doing a NFL Total Access hit that's gonna air Wednesday and Thursday. People should check out Total Access. You suggested for one of the hits, we should do it on your upper Body, which I like. What we're going to be some of your takes for that, well, I don't. I think total Access um for those that have watched it, the vibe of that would that would be a good segment for that. That really fits with total That came out of nowhere. Though the upper Body. I liked it. It It was a good joke, a lot to explore. All Right, we have so much to get you guys. We gotta keep moving here. We're gonna take a break, then we're gonna get everyone caught up with the news. The NFL is flying right now. We are back at it, so let's get caught up after the break. That's a good point you made, Mark, Yeah, that's a great point. Mark, feel validated. Seen all right, Welcome back, let's hit the news. I got a question for you, guys, who do win in a fight, Grizzly bear or a silverback Gorilla? So I'm pretty sure grizzly Bear is actually way bigger and it has daggers for hands. So yeah, I'm gonna go with the grizzly bear too. So anyone that says silverback, can you leave? Please? Forty niners all pro Tyde and George Kittle and outspoken man, one of those dudes, one of those guys. You know those guys, you know, the affable nice. Sometimes you gotta go along with this stuff a little bit. But everything he means well and he's a nice guy, So that's damning with faint praise. I think he's like a W W E character and you gotta try out different bits and some flies some don't. The bear. I'm not being I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying I don't really want to have that conversation, but he since he's such a nice guy, I'm all indulgent and will be like, oh, well, the gorilla's guy. He's talking you along a little incredible strength, and it's a very smart it's a primate. I'm I'm banking on the grip, but I I don't really need to talk to my friends of the show. I mean, friend of the show has been on with us during super Public. Let's not disenfranchise our status with another NFL player. Love him as a player, love the personality. I'm just saying, sometimes you gotta go along with the guy. Now, I understand what you're saying, especially I feel like you would as if you have to go along with me. You know, I'm saying, if if someone like like set you up like that, you would not want to have well, leborious, It's like, I know this is going to take an extra two or three minute. He felt a bit dying halfway through and didn't like have the confidence to kind of see it all the way. It was tough, justin Graver did not have the confidence to see it all the way through. With Julio Jones last year, you know, Titans fans a they really believe that he would be the guy that would be that big one to punch. Didn't work out. Jones became a free agent this offseason, sat on the you know, waiting line as it were, waiting for a gig, and now he's got one and it's a good one because Julio Jones, the future Hall of Famer, signs a one year contract with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Um, so we shall see what Julio Jones, at this stage of his career has left. He's dealt with a lot of negging injuries now mark for several years. Um, but he's playing with Tom Brady and that's never a bad thing. If he went anywhere else, I would almost not even bad. And I I think the Bucks thing, just because it is Brady, something about tells me you're gonna get this sort of season from who I's missed fourteen games over the last two years. Let's say he stays healthy. I kind of love the signing. I do question, though, knowing what we know about his durability, Um, what happened with him last year? Who has a better season, Russell Gauge or Julio Jones for the Bucks? I think so too. I will follow the money. I mean, look, look who got the big early free agent contract that they're putting into and then Julio Jones who gets six million, which, as I mentioned the rapt he was more than I expected. Uh. I think he's gonna have to have a totally solid month here, Like if he's missing half of training because he has hamstring issues which has bothered him and kept him out of practice mostly for three or four years. I don't know if he even goes into the season, but it's worth a shot. Yeah. I mean, obviously, Chris Godwin questionable to start the season. Um, Mike Evans is a rock obviously, but Gronk is out the door. Um, so they need somebody step up. I think and he and he he could be that guy. It's just yes, I think he got a temper expectations. I think gauge is the easy answer for me as well, because even if he does get through this training camp in the preseason, not that he'll probably play in the preseason even he was healthy, but you gotta set his over under games play at this point like eight and a half or something. It's just that's the nature of the beast with Julio Jones at the stage. But last his last games he played, he went five for fifty eight in a touchdown in six or sixty two in a game where they couldn't get much going offensively, Like he could be fine. This tells me, though that Tom Brady and there there's been reports about this, so I'm not just speaking out of school that like he wasn't totally in love with Tyler Johnson and Jalen Darden and Cyril Grayson and Irman and Scotty Miller, like he he hasn't really seen those guys step up. But I feel like we knew that during the playoffs last year he wanted he wanted Julio. There is there isn't an outcome here where this turns into a great veteran signing that he's a nice role player for them. I would like to see that, um, if only to like, No, actually, I feel bad for Falcons fans. Falcons fans are hating this one. Just like to see him on the rival Bucks, to see to Tom Brady Julio Jones, who would have gone down in history as one of the best ten catches, I would say, in Super Bowl history, leading the Falcons to a victory on that sideline grab overt Stefan Gilmore that should have set up the game winning points for Atlanta midway through the fourth quarter until Ryan took that sack that took him out like that he would have gotten down. That would have been his moment forever, and that was just sort of like a footnote Tom Brady and no player in the history at the NFL, because I follow people one just you just said you like stopped yourself because you didn't want to like rag on Falcons fans, and then you immediately drive it to experience we've had. We've had the fish tank, right, we had? What else did we have? The Ravens nest? The Ravens Nest. I want to take us in two thousand twenty two to the Bear Cave. Now a lot of people are going to the Bear Cave. Usually we like to go places where people don't go. Nobody's going to the Bear Cave right now, so we this year will occasionally walked gingerly into the darkness of the bear. I mean, he's a nice guy, he seems nice, but I just don't need to have the conversation, uh in the bear Cave. Some good news, Roquan Smith is not it's not so contentious that he's not even in the building. He's in the building. But it's your classic Holding Bears quote, Matt Eberflus, Did you know that you know that even loses the head coach of the Bears that's why we're well, some people might not be following the Bears very closely in this moment. That's sort of bird's eye view following the Bears, just knowing the coaches name right, I'm just listening. There are people out there that are listening that we're like, Oh, now, if if, if you didn't know that their offensive coordinator. And remember eber flu is a defensive guy, so this offensive coordinator has a lot of responsibility. Or just if you didn't know he it was Luke Getzy, former Packers assistant, then that is more understandable. Eberflus. You gotta know. There's information just flying around the Bearcave right now. Anyway, ro Kuan Smith has been put on the pup list, but he is still looking for the contract. He's set to make nearly ten million in the fifth and final year of his rookie deal. But maybe you could take that as a sign of good news. How about Robert Quinn, the veteran pass rusher coming off a big year with Chicago, There's been questions about whether he is part of the team's future. Um he had not reported to camp, but now he has. He reported to training camp. He had skipped mandatory minicamp in June, and there had been some thoughts that the veteran could be moved because Chicago not contending well. He does not expect to be traded, he said today Wednesday. We'll see if that plays out true. Eighteen And did you know this in the Bearcave, eighteen and a half sacks last year for Robert Quinn. I did. And in the three previous seasons he had an equal eighteen and a half, so he had a standout year. And I mean, if you're Matt Eberflus, very informational cave, it is you lost Khalil Mack obviously a Keem Hicks out the door. I mean, if you're Matt Eberflus, I get that the Bears are rebuilding and there must be some organizational buying that it's gonna take a couple of years. But on offense it feels sort of super gloomy. But he's a defensive coach and he's coming there to put his stamp on. He's got a new scheme. You need Robert Quinn, you need Rokwan Smith, So there have to be some buying in the building. We're getting Rokewan Smith a new deal and it better happened soon. The whole like he wasn't gonna show up didn't last too long. It's it's a classic hold in class. I'm not gonna say if it existed for three years or so, so it's not you know, that's we're already in classic territory now. I think it would. It's like one of those terms holding that would have gained popular popularity eventually anyways, like I are boomerang um right, But I I gotta say among the national NFL media, I really kick started holding started three years ago, started repeating over and over. Now it's everywhere there is. You know, I'm not saying, don't dance around and come out and say it, say it's you. It was me. Well, we could do a deeper linguistic study on that, but that's that's fine. Let's leave the barricade, but it won't be the last time we're gonna We're gonna visit the barcade periodically. Everyone else stays away from the cave right now, they're not even going to the forest. We will duck in occasionally, but let's add somewhere else in the NFC North Little Packers News, Uh Packers President and CEO Mark Murphy is happy to hand out extensions for general manager Brian Goode Kanst and head coach Matt LeFleur. Uh these two have not gotten over the hump to Lombardi glory together, but what else can you ask for? The Packers are a year in and year out a true Super Bowl contender uh la Fleur statistically, numbers wise, has been one of the most successful head coaches ever uh in three seasons, three NFC North titles, thirty nine and ten record. Packers are in good hands, especially with Aaron Rodgers there, so they make sure to get these guys pen to paper with a new extension for years to come. I'm not sure what is the how many years they didn't say, I don't know what the whole years? What is the whole thing with like, let's not reveal all the details of coaching and GM contracts, Like no one was sure as we talked about with Jane last episode, whether Mike McCarthy had an extra year on his contract. This should just be public. Make it public sometimes. I don't know how they get away with that. If it goes south, the owner is stuck paying coach x like four more years and they probably like, it's fine, just just let us know. I mean, this is no great idea. Their roster looks amazing. I think their defensive roster. Goody has really focused on defense quite a bit as a GM, and I think he's done a nice job with it. I think this is the year it should pay off. Matt Laflor has come a long way since we were in your garage and your dad, Keith Hansas called him a little boy with a beard. He called a bearded boy, right. I thought it was a little boy with a beard. He's like a boy with the beard. Yeah, maybe it was just boy with a beard, but yeah, it's not wrong back then. But now he's not a boy. I'm still Packers are still in old Zuser tugboat time out um after their playoff performance. I mean they're in tugboat time out still and they're going to be probably until next January. But I will not you'd be stupid, did not respect what they built. What are you gonna do when you know we're talking Packers every week will be over the moon because they're in tugboat time Matt normally would be you just ignore them. You don't even like that's shoot them into the sun. Yeah, I can't do with that because I'm hosting the podcast. But I'm not going to be over the moon, and that's gonna I have to think about that with power rankings too. I need to be understand what happened to January should not be forgotten. The size of the egg that was laid by the packers and what that means organization. How is that different than every other I've been saying this for as long as we've been getting together every January and egg is laid. Well, I'm just saying that in particular, that was a pretty grizzly egg. It was a horrible egg that was for the team. The Niners team allowed the Cowboys to do that. They pushed the Cowboys into the same spot previously. That was a lot. A lot of it had to do with the Niners operating saying it was too cold for the packers and that's why they lost. And I was just remembering comments remember that I think it was I think I would say that, yeah, that the weather hurts their passing attack. That happened every year. It's an egg where oh there's a little chicken ee inside and then you open it and no actually the chicken ee is bleeding and dead. Gross. They've had it's like bloody egg to your point, since we've been here in two thousand ten, they've they won the Super Bowl the first year we were here. There's been many eggs since, but that was the first one who was like, man, these guys are tight. These guys are afraid of the moment. These guys are better that that. It's Jimmy Garoppolo it listen, I'm gonna let it. I'm gonna move on. And other news, Michael Thomas is practicing. That is big news for the New Orleans Saints, who are hoping their wide receiver can return to listen. He was on a canton path when that ankle for that ankle gave out in week one of the season. So getting him off the pub list, getting him on the practice field this early in training camp, it's just a great sign. Greg. It's the biggest on field development I think of the first couple of days of training camp. He he was emotional, especially for Michael Thomas. I mean, he he's the guy who's like always fired up, but you could see what the day meant to him. When he spoke to the media, he gave. I believe Jeff Duncan a little grief, which I enjoyed too about something because he's been really reporting about the UH divide between Michael Thomas and and the organization over the last couple of years. It's huge, you know. We they have such a huge gap between like what their best outcome is and their worst outcome. And Michael Thomas to me, is sort of the embodiment of that. You could get a top ten receiver out of Michael Thomas. Suddenly Landry's your three and the Lobby's your two and you're you're you're on fire, or you might not get anything out of Michael Thomas and and that could be the type of season the Saints have. I think they could be anywhere from like twelve to six wins. I think that's fair. I mean, you're in a division where you know you're gonna play the Falcons twice. They seem like a dead operation this season. The Panthers are iffy. I mean, that can inflate your wind total. They're not scared of the Bucks. It's it's not just their offense, it's their defense too. I mean, I think a love is someone who's gotten Calvin Ridley comparisons our friend Land zero Line compared him to Terry Terry McLaurin. So a good route runner can come in and help them right away. I think he's a chance to be a big contributor. I think for me, it's like you don't have the Sean Payton factor, Michael Thomas or not. Like what does that mean for Jamis Winston? What does it mean for the entire I think he gave them an extra two wins a year. So the Saints to me are a real X factor type team right now. All right, we talked about hold ins. Here's some real holdouts. Jesse Bates the safety of the Bengals unsigned franchise tag, and he has not reported to training camp. There have been some rumors about a potential trade there as well. But also Cincinnati is right in a Super Bowl window. You would think they will do everything to try to keep him on the field or get him on the field. UH. And then also Orlando Brown, very important piece of what the Chiefs are doing. The left tackle has not reported training camp in Kansas City, and Mike Garifolo reported earlier this week that he will not report for some time. So that is another UH. Situation to track. If you're not going to show up for day one, you might as well skip that whole first two and a half weeks where it's technically training camp, because it doesn't seem like that much fun. You either have to live in the dorms, especially if you can get the money wiped away the fines. It's like August fifteen, seventeenth is around the window where they break from from quote training came might even be earlier August eleven. I mean you can show up a solid three or four weeks. Yeah, skip this part. I'm with you. And Andy Reid kind of stuck it to Orlando Brown saying, we know that Joe Tuney can do this in a heartbeat if they need to move in the left tackle at some point, so they I think there is stances you look at. You turned down what Mike Garifola reported it was a ninety one million deal dollar deal over five years. I don't know why he did, because I think it's a great organization to be at. You can you can be the left tackle for Patrick Mahomes and now you're sitting there in He'll be back. I know, he just know, w is he just because you think he's worth million. I'm just saying it's it's a great situation for a left tackle in the NFL. If you're good and he is good, well, I can't deny that. Who wouldn't want to play with future Hall of Fame or Patrick Mahomes in front of one of the great fan bases in football? Well, apparently Orlando Brown at at the current time. Let the man go through his business process. Mark, speaking of the Bengals Joe Burrow, I don't know what you have against him, but I just felt like I had to say something. They're I feel like you're cooking that up at a thin air. That's fine, Marks, very much the like these guys will make too much money. I'd be out there players make too much money. Joe Burrow also not involved with Cincinnati Bengals practice right now. He's gonna miss a little bit of time. He's having his appendix removed. You know, this is another to me, a positive sign, uh for Cincinnati, because the old Bengals, the appendix, this would happened in week six and he'd be missing like seven games or three games or something. But now that things are better in Cincinnati, knock on wood. Uh. It happens in mid July. Everything's fine care of That was a professional take from someone who's done this long time, because I was I looked at this story, was well, what could we possibly say about that? I wrote, non issue? You came up with one, I'm gonna have the one I'm gonna come up with is. I like it in cases like this when someone gets their appendics and it's like, oh, well, that's that's nothing. At least that's not a real injury. It's like if I had to go get my appendix out and miss the next thing of work, that would that would bother me. That's significant in my life. So I feel for Joe Burrow. Don't be healing. The only good thing, though, is when your appendix needs you're in. You're in like total physical infamy when you need it out. I looked it up though, and it's said the normal recovery time to to typical human activities is two to four weeks. So he's doing something more than just walking around or climbing the ladder, you know, you know, mowing your lawn. He's gonna be taking massive hits. So I wonder if we see him in the preseason. No, I doubt we will, and I don't think we would anyways. And yeah, like they really is fortunate because obviously he won't be touched from now until September eleven or whatever the first game is. But uh, it's it's a violence. I don't know if anybody's paying attention news update. So if the timing worked out, Unfortunately for Chris Carson, his NFL career has come to an end after just five seasons. The Seahawks running back who suffered a neck injury required a surgical fusion. And that you know, you hate to hear any type of surgery for a player, um, but when you hear the next surgery, it always his touch and go. At that point, you and you hope that the player gets cleared and he can be healthy and safe. But this is the other outcome where the player ends up retiring years, half a decade and maybe more than when he typically would be expected to retire. And unfortunately Chris Carson has to walk away. It's just not safe, uh, to play with this type of issue. So tough because Greg Chris Carson when he was healthy, was really a great running back. It was so fun when he first popped up. I remember West just loving his running thought how could you not? It was just like so aggressive. Unfortunately, it was the kind of running style where you're like, oh, that guy might get hurt sometime playing that way. This was obviously just bad luck. But a couple of seasons over twelve yards rushing, Uh made some big plays in the playoffs. I remember against the Vikings where he broke a couple of tackles, scored a long touchdown. Happy trails that that's too bad. There's another retirement in Seattle just popped up ten minutes ago. K J. Wright is signing a one day ceremonial contract and is officially retiring as a member of the Seahawks. Smith and Drew lock and Rashad Penny. They've got Kenneth Walker. Kenneth Walker their second round pick, so that's that's a great duo. I think they what has Penny done other than that stretch last year to show you that he could be counted on a question for the we we want to see what if it's that version going forward? Look out and they came Metcalfe and Tyler Lockett. I mean they have some high level player. That's a nice duo. If if Penny's healthy. I love met Calf and Locket, and they're gonna need to run the bullocks six hundred forty times a game at Trew Locker, Geno Smith at your quarterback. Sorry, Greg, I know you're running that fan club along with It's all. It's all Um managed ex spectators. Was very rose. Both of you were very rosy. And just now I was looking, I was thinking about that Joe behind the offensive line and like, oh, that's rough. But you guys are higher on the backfield, and maybe the rookie is a big we we were there for a big Rashad Penny game in person, Dan against the Rams, I mean for five games he was like Derrick Henry busting open like seventy yard runs everything. Multiple years before that, well yeah, there was four of those. Three of those. Will consider the entile entire sample size. All Right and kJ Right, but I once throughout a whole feature on NFL dot Com about the kJ Right Wagner duo. They were sort of after they got to the Super Bowl. That was the core of their team. He was a hell of a linebacker whose whose career d fell off a cliff quickly, but was great when he was great and finally, this always messes with my head. We have a name change, especially when it's a prominent player. Darius Leonard has made it be known the All Pro Colts linebacker that he now wants to go by the name that many of his family and friends call him. It's his middle name. Darius Leonard going forward is now Shaquille Leonard, Shack Leonard. I like, but I don't know if he goes by show. I think it's Shakil Shakil Leonard from this point forward, respect it or else. You wanted to throw this one in there in fairness. He the first thing he said about it was like, oh, no, hard feelings. You can call me Darius. I know it's hard to do that. He's like, I know it's hard to get used to. But I've been going by Shaquille with with everyone I love forever. I feel more comfortable. I like it. I think there is a market difference. Mark disagreed. He likes Darius Leonard has a name better. To me, it's Shaquille Leonard. Sounds like a Hall of famer. Darius Leonard was solid, you're not going to honor the Shakill switch. Now. I want him to do what he wants to do. It's just that I got to know him a certain way and then suddenly, Uh, he changes his name and he goes to the middle the middle name, which is interesting. I guess we could all make that choice at some point. I am my middle name is my father's name, so Keith Hansas, which would be confusing to the listeners who've listened for a long time. Also confusing if any of your family members, because you kind of sound like Keith. Does he have like a Keith Hansas at gmail dot com most in the podcast. Now there would be we need an offseason episode where you speaking that voice the entire episode. What is your middle name? Greg, I can't do it. Keep the ends, I said, I don't think my good name is Michael. My middle name is Michael Michael Rosenthal. Mine's Edward after my father, who is also Namedward Essler or ed But I don't go. I don't call myself Mark ed Cessler. Now it's like it's like, yeah, Greg, it's Youah. Penny was great at the end of the last Yeah, but look at the rest of his career fairly well, you tried, Uh me and my dad should switch roles for a summer where he hosts the podcast for a summer, and then I just work outside, uh, in the yard for the entire summer, like seven hours a day. You're going to like a Billy Joel concert with your mom and you're kind of take a concert, you know, mow the lawn twice a week, just be just be working constantly outside to the point where I can't even figure out what my dad's doing at this point. But he's really he's an outdoor warrior. He's mowing the lawn twice a week. That feels very like it. I feel like you're on that path though you're very much you like doing the yard like that door, like being a real homeowner. I do. I enjoy enjoy, enjoy it. Uh, I enjoy being a homeowner. You know your neighbors that you're feeding, um, one of your neighbors or two frogs. It's a zoo basically over there. I'm feeding two giant dogs, a stray cat that they feed, and two frogs. What is taking the dogs? Are you doing that too? Oh? I love dogs, that's not get it, but it's a lot of work. The cat is a little touch and go because cats, you know, you know, cats it's like, come on, what is the frog? What's the diet for the frog? Is it of your neighbor? Though? Dogs are like people get paid for that. I would I'm not saying I would ask for payment, but I would expect a nice thank you gift. All right, that is what's happening in the news. What do you guys think an animal? Comment? All right, take a break and then uh a quick game with Grave Digger and then we're out. All right, welcome back. Let's do something fun here, Grave Digg or how are you doing buddy? Pretty well? Thanks for asking? What pretty well? What do you second? How you doing, Grave Digger? I'm doing well. Thanks for us. There's the Grave Digger cam again. Our viewers on YouTube, h can do enjoy a great look of graver Christie Randy who loves publicity. We should mention you know that we are on YouTube. Um if you if you prefer that, I believe we have mentioned that. I'm just saying it the I don't like it. I don't like it because you've often been down on the problem that YouTube. Here's why we were the internet is the future now if we're if we're live on YouTube, then it's like a whole thing. I don't like because we're we're the biggest NFL only podcasts out there. You know, you don't want to puff your chest out too much. But just in terms of audience, not fantasy. It's the big numbers, big numbers. But on YouTube there's that big numbers. So that just annoys me. And it's like, either we should just do it. Help. I'm saying, either we do it or not. I think it's great. If you want to see the visual real p T. Barnham there, if you want to see what the show looks, I can see behind the glass and meet the whole crew. I see Randy Chavez Chavez Ravine back there. See he didn't even bother looking up because he's like, I'm busy, I'm a pro. Let's get into it. Let's get into it. Great. Are you pulled up some quotes that have popped up over the last twenty four hours or so? Do you just want to play that? Set them up to him up and play him and then we'll react to him. Is that what we're doing here? Yeah? I think that works. Are maybe some of them are kind of funny, some of them maybe like do you buy what they're saying, but let's start here. This is Bill Belichick asked if it will be a problem that they haven't named an offensive coordinator the Patriots. Yeah. I'm the head coach. Ultimately, I'm responsible for anything. So just leave it at that. That's what it is. We're not really big on titles and all that, so I think everybody you know, it's important that we all work together and create a good final product. That's what we're gonna final product seven. I it's it's such a pull string doll answer that I respected the final pro. Do you wonder what's going on here? Matt Patricia is going to be the O C. But if they don't want to put it out there, if they put the title on him, he doesn't get paid by the Lions. Just I think they're just keep allowing him to the plays at practice. According to reporters on Wednesday, Matt Patricia, but this is not new. Uh. It is a way to avoid paying people their full value. Uh. Potentially, But when Josh McDaniels took over for Charlie Weiss, he was not named offensive coordinator. When Brian Flores took over, I believe it was for Dean P's It took him a solid two years of him actually being the coordinator to get the title. Uh so they've they've got this in the past for what. And when he says we're not really into titles, he should say I'm not into titles. And also, let's not bury the lead. The bigger question is not like that they don't have the official labels. It's that Matt Patricia and Joe Judge have vital roles on this coaching staff. It is another great test of Belichick's reach and ability to lead a team. Um, you know, which is pure would be one thing if Judges the special team coach and Patricia's helping as a defensive assistant. It's different that they're in charge of Max Jones future. I think that is like just assumed that that's going to work out. Does that mean that at the end of the day, though, it's actually Bill Belichick that's directly responsible for the development. And if that's the like Belichick is in his early seventies now very late sixties, that is he's just I mean, the guy is he's different. I guess that's all I'll say about it. I respect it, I be grudgingly respect Belichick's greatness. He turned seventy in April. Alright, what else do you have? All right? Jerry Jones opened training camp with a press conference, and before anyone could even ask him a question, he decided to say, this probably the one that I have the most sensitivity about, and that is Mike and him coaching, and uh, I want to be real clear. He wouldn't be sitting here today if I didn't think he was the man to lead this team to a super Bowl. He would not be And I have choices. That's my favorite part of that. I have choices. Yeah, there was there's a lot of pushback. Even Jane pushed back a little bit as the person covering the Cowboys for NFL Network, Like, you know this narrative about Mike McCarthy and and Sean Payton, and let's let this play out. Sure, that's fine, you tell me you love Michae McCarthy, you believe in them. But it doesn't change the fact that that is a very real plot line entering the season, right, and that most coaches would not be sitting next to the owner while they're speaking about them, just like this, as the opening press conference of the season kicks off. That says a lot, and her point was that Peyton would not be comfortable in a Cowboys environment where he doesn't have autonomy and power. I'm not sure that couldn't change a little bit if they wanted to finally make that work. I do love that I've got options though, because of course every NFL choice has choices. But Jerry was saying, I'm Jerry f and Joe, I've got more choices than those other guys. Anything could happen in the jaral zone, and that's what's playing out. Every time he speaks. You get relegated to such a beta sitting there next to Jerry Jones as the head coach, where you just sort of like hands folded, not able to say anything. That's part of the price you pay. What else? All right? This is cults GM Chris Ballard, what's your favorite type of frog? On why they haven't signed a notable wide receiver yet? Easy for me to go sign a name for yall. It would be y'all would write these beautiful stories and then when that got him play well, the flip would be incredible, like it would be incredib y'all won't get called on it. I will y'all won't get called on it though, so I have some patience. Let us work to it, so you're not signing a wide receiver to avoid eventual critique. I like that because he is right about that. There were there were points last season, just to use the cults as an example, where the local media had said the season was over or so at two and four, and then there was points last season when the local media was thinking this team might make the super Bowl, and then everyone knows what happened, but the media end up really not taking any grief for being so far off. I think it was interesting though, that Matt Ryan didn't want Julio Jones on his team, and that is absolutely how I'm reading this situation, knowing a little bit of behind the scenes stuff Ryan and Julio they Ryan was like, man, I would do anything to have Julio Jones. I think they would have found room for him probably probably, or he'd want Julio Jones of four years ago. Uh. Do you think we're gonna do our hot butt rankings of head coaches on the hot seat? Um? Probably next month? I wonder you know. Jim Mercy is a very passionate owner. He's very emotional we saw how he took the collapse against the Jaguars in Week eighteen last year almost personally on a biblical level. Um. I wonder if Raik Ballard or feeling a little heat this season. You know. So we had Zach Key from when you were the East Coast our friend, Zach Key from you did the show. We did a show without you and it was very informative and we asked him that and he said that they're definitely you know, it's real because they had the heat should be there. But I think the thing is if you're or say you have to say what better coach, You're gonna get what better GM becase I think ballads very good. When then on top of it, they had to navigate the retirement of Andrew Luck, which I think was super thorny, and they've gone. It's been difficult since, but you can't just flip. They are floating. I think they've they've done fairly well. I think they won that was they won tend with a lot, they won ten with Luck. I kind of forgot that right Luck Sea he was really great. And then seven wins, eleven wins, nine wins. I think it's unfair, but I absolutely think if they didn't make the playoffs, they'd be on the hot seat, and right would probably lose his job even if it was I don't know. I think if you give up, if you give up Frank Reik, he has another job in four seconds. But that doesn't doesn't mean you wouldn't make the move if you didn't think he was a guy though, just because somebody else would value if they didn't make the playoffs this year, I think they would make changes to the couple more more, let's skip down a couple. Then here's Matt rule. The graver cam. Now you got Sean Kelly's like, Now he's looking directly at the camera, like, Psychopa, do you have any work to do? Um? Here's Matt Rule on naming a starting quarterback for the Panthers. To me, my job is not to pick the starting quarterback. The players will do that with the way that they play. My job is to make sure that we have really good players in the room, which we now know which we do in that one, and make sure that they have opportunities and so you know, it'll it'll be a fun ride when we know we know. I like Matt Rule. Do you like he's a Jersey guy. He's cool. What the hell is he talking about? He's pretty loose just the way he talks. I actually he picks. Of course he's going to pick through the quarterback is I identify with that. I definitely sometimes just say things and it's like, well, I didn't really mean it in that way, and I think that's what he just I think he I mean, he's saying that they'll decide with their own play, like I get it. But it's act. It's a hundred percentage job. It's one of the most important parts of his job right now. I don't think he is he technically saying I have nothing to do with the process that they were. They both played equally well, Sam Donald and Baker Mayfield. I would have no input. I don't think that what he's that's what he's implaying. They'll go out on the field week one, holding hands against the Browns. Can't be worse than last year. Anything else. One more, one more and then one quick fun one. Okay, so one more real one? Uh. Kyle Shanahan on Trey Lance, Jimmy Garoppolo moving on and trying to trade Jimmy g I like the second um, but we have moved on to Tray were starting camp out this way. Um, we think Jimmy would have been traded if the surgery didn't happen. It did. He needed to do it, So there's no ill will there at all. Um. But you also can't just give um one of the better quarterbacks in the league just to make him available for no reason to the whole world. So UM. And the good thing is you can have those conversations with jim and he understands that too. This is Kyle Shannon crying uncle to the media and he's like, please just stop asking me about Jimmy Garoppolo in season. He's not involved. I can't be any more clear. Please just stop asking me about it. I mean, that's a pretty big change though that it's just like we're rolling with Trey, and I think the only reason they wouldn't the change. I'm sorry they never said that before they were they weren't will change other than now he's coming out and saying it's just it's just actually saying you're right. I think he would have said that in March or February if they weren't trying to hold on to some mythical leverage when it came to Jimmy G. And then Kyle Shannon's funny because he was like, hey, look, there's no ill will about him getting the surgery, and it's just one of those comments where it's like you should just say less because it would have never occurred to me that there would have been ill will. And now I absolutely think they were frustrated by the timing of Jimmy G surgery, which was early March after they had already put it out there that he was available, and I was like, oh, they probably weren't thrilled about that, even though it was made sense for Jimmy well legitimate kind of blew up their plans because now they're stuck trading a quarterback that maybe nobody wants, and I think they're gonna hold on to him. It sounds like they're not gonna cut him. I like the clarity that part. I don't believe he did say that later, like, we're not gonna cut Jimmy G. They are lying. If for some reason they couldn't get any uh trade offer for him, they are not going to keep him for twenty four You have to get rid of him before August because his four million dollar based salary becomes guaranteed if they're they're lying about that well to get the debot deal done, which they sound confident that they can. Like this is a huge part of that was the real story. Now, what's by The one thing You've got to watch John Lynch's body language during that press conference go back. It's one of the most uncomfortable looking. I don't know what's going on there, but I do read into he He does the thing where he's like scratches his hair where do you can tell his hair is not itchy? He does the thing where he like does this, does this with his nose, and like he looks fidgeting and sort of annoyed at what Kyle is saying a little bit too much here and there, and Lynch does not seem to like that. It's been dramatic, and I just wonder if those two are really always on the same page. It's been obviously a stressful situation for the pair. Finally, finally, Aaron Rodgers was asked if it was good having Alan Lazard back after missing all off season, and this is his response. I mean, it's always tough going from Hall of Fame and Hall of Famer. It's good. You know, the ConA Air entrance for Aaron Rodgers and then uh, I don't know. He he obviously was annoying with the with the vaccine stuff and some of the comments he makes. But like you said, Greg, we'll miss him when he's gone, right, And I don't even I'm I'm not even the big fan of the connear thing. Like to me, it's sort of seems corny and tried to herd. But I will miss it all because it's a it's a show, like he had this line ready and some people are like, oh, burn, It's like, calm down, he's having some fun with his friend Davante Adams. It's he's just making a joke. Let's let's let he's been more enjoyable this offseason than or in recent days than in the last couple of years. But I also think when he stops playing, he won't be gone. He's not gonna vanish like Andrew Luck until he tried to become the Jeopardy host, which he is not. Somebody who's he's not pulling Andrew Luck put it that way. It's not growing the bushey beer and disappearing for five years. Alright, good stuff, good job, I like that. It was a good seg that's good producer work by Grave Diggers. So let's got you on camera. That's you know, it's his idea. Yeah, yeah, his execution of it was flawless and he put in the work and you know it made the show better. So we appreciate. It's unclear what Sean Kelly is doing no professionally behind he's supporting. He's supporting him. Yeah, he two thumbs up. All right, before we go, there is one more news item that everyone needs to know about, and it's it's a figure that has a special place, um in the hearts of this show. We've been tracking him since his college prospect days. UM, and this gentleman just signed a contract with the San Francisco forty nine. Is maybe that's why John Lyndra scratching his head. He's thinking about this situation. He's got all the tools, um, still just twenty seven years old. He's hoping to finally break through in the NFL. And UM, let's end today's show by singing literally the praises of a man that we're all rooting for. M D Jack Inde jacking D Jack. Why you fall out that we know you fell down the draft board and right out of their minds. First hit was Star Cards, then the doll Fins, then sett Don't See Hawks, Now nine Ers, Kim dj in djck in DJ, more than a Broken glass pile, Kim DJ Kim DJ k in d J. Time to convince Kyle absolutely worth de Lane the show for twenty five minutes. Absolutely not. Unlike Aaron Rodgers, you may have another chapter after this show. Raps