A Bipartisan Breakthrough on Housing: How NAR Helped Lay the Groundwork

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- Welcome to the advocacy scoop,
the podcast that takes you

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inside the advocacy work
of the National Association

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of Realtors connecting NAR members

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with their advocates in
Washington for a front row seat

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to the fight for public policy
that strengthens the ability

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of Americans to access property ownership.

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- Alright. Hello everybody.

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Hey, welcome to this live recording

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of the Advocacy Scoop podcast on the

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day of the State of the Union.

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- Oh, big day. We've got plenty

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to cover in the less than 20
minutes that we have here.

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- For those listening, we
are at President Circle,

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so a little bit of FOMO here.

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Shannon, for the listeners,

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just tell 'em a little bit
about President Circle.

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- So President Circle
program, it is this conference

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and so much more.

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It is one of the most asked
about things in DC coming from

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candidates, you know,
lawmakers who are like, Hey,

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that President's Cup thing, what is it

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that I keep hearing about

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where you guys raise all this money

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and you have this great event.

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And it is, it is interesting to find out

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how much they talk to each other.

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And then also going around
the country into the states,

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wherever we can find folks who wanna go

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and support these candidates.

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Last year raised close

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to $3 million in direct
donations to candidates,

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and those are direct
dollars coming from you all.

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So this is, this is quite
the special program,

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- And I always put it
this way, you know, a lot

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of trade groups in Washington,
they represent an industry,

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but we represent 1.4 million individuals

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and almost all of whom
are small business owners

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or independent contractors.

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I know we said the real
estate industry a lot,

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but it it really is

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- A microcosm of the country.

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Yes, exactly. We represent everyone

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who has any interest in
putting a roof over their head.

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- So this conference,
you know, the programing

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that we put together here is sort of part

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of being in president's circle,

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the imitation to come to this.

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Every year we try to find
speakers who are the voices

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of their, their parties and of the issues.

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And last year we had two

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that are in President Trump's
inner circle, Tony Fabrizio

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and Chris Avita spoke here last year.

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And I wanted to just brag
on the program a little bit

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because last week there was a big meeting

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with President Trump and
his top political team,

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cabinet secretary levels were
president at this meeting

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where Tony and Chris,

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who were at President Circle
last year, told them what

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- That housing affordability is one

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of the top economic issues
of concern, which is

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what we were talking about last year.

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And what we also did a
national poll on that again,

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was referenced in the latest episode

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of the advocacy Scoop podcast

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and something that we
were able to push out

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through several media channels

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and then get right back into
the president's political team

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right into their inboxes.

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So they're seeing that
this message is resonating

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with voters on both sides of
the aisle, around the country,

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every age and demographic.

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- So affordability is
obviously the buzzword of 26.

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The White House Press Secretary
last week opened the press

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conference with affordable
housing and talking about that.

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So, so tell me a little bit, Shannon,

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where we are on that front.

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- Well it is a big
shift from two years ago

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and that shift is something
that wasn't something

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that we planned for it.

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We knew about it, we knew we were going

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to be sitting at the table

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as housing affordability
became a la a larger national

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conversation because we were the ones

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who were setting that table.

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We were creating the research
through Dr. Yun and Dr.

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Laz and their team on the inventory crisis

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that is driving up housing prices

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and making housing less
available, affordable

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and accessible.

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We have been talking about
the high inflation interest

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rates, mortgage rates, the lock-in effect

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that it has on those
who may want to downsize

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or to relocate.

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And these are all things
that are now being discussed

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because we have been
putting it at the forefront

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for the last several years.

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- Well, and that, I'm
so glad you said that

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because you know, now it
is the buzzword of 2026,

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the president is talking about
it, congressional leaders

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and both parties are talking about it,

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housing affordability.

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So now everyone's piling on, right?

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So now we're starting to
see a lot of headlines

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and some of them are not exactly accurate.

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So, you know, from our
perspective, you know,

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the the primary cause

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of housing affordability is still supply.

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- It is still supply. And

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what we're seeing from
our polling too, that 17%

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of voters think it's
not a good time to buy

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that there are many
factors, including the idea

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that it's just not affordable
for me and they want it to be,

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but it's not the fact that
the first time homeowner

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for the first time is now 40 years old.

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And you may have seen there
have been other reports

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and things that come out and
say, oh, well we think that

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that number is much lower.

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Those are reports that
analyze data that exists.

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Ours is a survey that
actually asks human beings

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who bought a house, how old were you

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when you bought that house?

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And is a much more credible
source of information.

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Did you know, according
to federal documents

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that a first time home buyer is someone

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who bought a home within
the last three years.

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We ask a first time home buyer,

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is this your first time buying a home?

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So this is very important
research, a very important way

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to communicate that.

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And it's something the
White House is using.

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And we heard referenced several
times back in December when

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past President Kevin
Sears testified in front

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of the House Financial
Services Committee on a massive

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bipartisan group of housing bills

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that have since passed the House

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of Representatives 390 to nine.

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And now we're seeing a
similar package of bills going

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before the Senate next week.

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- Yeah. And, and we just
heard from, from Lawrence

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and the, you know, NAR our
research team, you know,

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they've, they're still talking
about supply as well and,

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and what are they saying about it?

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I don't wanna get into
Lawrence's turf too much,

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but you know, has improved a bit. But

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- The issue with supply is

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that there are two different tracks

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and many folks are looking
into how do we build more,

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how do we cut through regulatory
barriers, zoning issues?

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You've heard a lot coming from
this administration on can

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home builders just move faster?

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But what we're also focused
on is the existing inventory

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that is being underutilized.

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And that's because of our tax code

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and the punitive nature of capital gains.

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A home equity tax being placed
on the sale of your home

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that you have spent years

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and years putting into an investment.

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You don't get to write off
all of those investments

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that you made into your home,

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but you're still being taxed

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as an investor when you sell it.

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So the unfair nature of that

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and the idea that it hasn't
been updated since the 19

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hundreds is more room to make the case

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that we need a tax package
to also address this issue.

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- And our research showing, you know,

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people aren't moving home
ownership 10 years now, 11 years.

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So that's another issue as well.

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So you were just saying with
the capital gain exasperating

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that in the baby boomer population.

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- Exactly, exactly. And then
also the number of, we say 4.7

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to 5 million units short and
there folks who have come out

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and said four up to 8 million units short.

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But either way, this is something

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that we are now seeing
bipartisan action, house, Senate,

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and the White House all
agree that the states need

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to do something about it.

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They're all kind of
pointing fingers back at

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what can be done to incentivize state

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and local governments to
unleash that inventory.

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- All right, well there's,
you know, speaking

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of misleading headlines, there's
some flying around saying,

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oh, we're, you know,
we're in a housing crisis

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or a crash is coming like in oh eight.

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And so what are Lawrence and
Jessica saying about that?

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- Oh, oh, that it is not that,
that it is nothing like that.

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But what the real crisis
that we're seeing here

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and that you all have recognized

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for years is the home ownership gap

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and the wealth gap that
is created by that.

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And that's where you're seeing

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that the generational
wealth not being built

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and delivered to the next generation.

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And that's where you're
seeing a crisis in the ability

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to afford more homes.

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But it's nothing like the 2008, right?

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- Well, we just had a major
bipartisan housing bill pass in

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the House of Representatives.

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This is something that I
remember we were all jumping up

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and down when we got word that they were,

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that it was actually
gonna come to the floor.

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We got a couple of days
notice that it was,

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that it was on the schedule
to go to the floor.

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And so we've been working
on this for a while

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- And we did, we did a call for action

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and within 48 hours we
have any FPCs in the

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house, we get a little shut.

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All right, we'll go.

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Chances are you're one of
those who called your member

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of congress because
within 48 hours we had 90%

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of the FPCs make contact
with those offices.

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And I think we, the the first
50 to fill their reports,

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you got like a, a Yeti mug or something.

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So maybe it's caught, I
don't wanna, you know,

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ruin the surprise, but,

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but it was amazing to
see how quickly can act

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as the longtime staff director

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of the financial services committee.

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I started working there in 2010

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during the Dodd-Frank debate.

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I never thought that I
would see Maxine Waters

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and French Hill hugging on the DAAs

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and celebrating this
massive bipartisan victory.

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Housing is not something

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that is easily done at the federal level.

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Like I've mentioned,
they often try to kind

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of kick the can towards the
states for these issues.

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But that was incredibly successful

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and we are having
conversations with key members

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of the committee and
Senate Banking Committee

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as these conversations

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and negotiations continue
with the White House.

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- So this was the, the housing
for the 21st Century Act.

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And you know, we sort
of laid the groundwork

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with this when Kevin, president
Kevin, first president,

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Kevin, Kevin the first
testified in, in, in front

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of congress in that marathon,

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what was it, five hour hearing?

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- No, bathroom break, five hours.

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- Yeah. So we've been working
on it really since then.

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So tell me, just tell me what
does the bill actually do?

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- So this bill focuses primarily on how

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to expand housing supply

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and reduce those barriers to development.

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There are incentives in
there for modular homes,

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manufactured homes, any of those areas

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that can be built quickly.

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It also expands access

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and removes some of those
structural obstacles

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to home ownership.

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It's directly addressing supply
by working on incentivizing

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that type of growth at the,
at the state and local level.

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And as mentioned, it is
very meaningfully bipartisan

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and was drafted in a way to ensure

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that everyone was coming to the table.

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- Well, speaking of bipartisan,
there is a Senate companion.

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So it's passed the house.

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That was the, the,

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the Senate companion is called the Road

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to Housing Act. Is that right? Yeah.

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- And they, and they passed it first.

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And so that's a senate
banking chairman Tim Scott

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and ranking member Elizabeth
Warren who often do not see eye

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to eye on economic issues,
but did come together

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and have a unanimous
unanimously passed bill

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out of the committee.

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That was the one that they tried to attach

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to the National Defense
Authorization Act at the end

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of last year, but it
wasn't ready for that yet.

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So now they're moving
it on the Senate floor.

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The interesting thing
that will happen here,

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and we do have a, a lot of, of

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hope that this will come
through, we think it will come

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through, but the house in the
Senate often fight more than

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Republicans and Democrats.

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The joke is that the, the
other party is the opposition,

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the Senate is the enemy
and it's coming together

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because they all kind of have
their own way of doing things.

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And so the White House has since
expressed interest in being

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involved in the negotiations

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between the House and the Senate.

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And what's that issue that
President Trump brought up

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as part of all of our,

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00:11:47,460 --> 00:11:49,110
- Yeah, so that was my next question.

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What could sink this bill
if it's passed the house

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00:11:51,930 --> 00:11:53,110
and it's passed the Senate?

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Are we in an old fashioned

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conference committee at this point or,

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00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:56,360
- Oh, I wish.

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00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:57,850
Those are fun. Those are good time.

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I'll tell you stories later
about Barney Frank stealing

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Oreos from my desk

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and one of those
conference committees once,

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but they don't really do
those since Todd Frank.

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That's, it's not a common practice.

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What typically would happen is

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that you would have a four
corners agreement between House

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and Senate leadership on what can stay in

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and try to get

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that onto another must
pass piece of legislation.

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But there was an interesting
kind of wrinkle in that the,

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the White House issues, what
is called a sap, a statement

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of administration policy.

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And when a bill is going through the house

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or Senate, that is the White
House's ability to say,

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if this passes, I will
support it or I will veto it,

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or I have these concerns.

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And the SAP said we support this,

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especially the modular
manufactured housing components

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of it, but they do not want

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to see anything move without
institutional investors

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being addressed.

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So that meant back to the drawing board.

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And that meant that we were
at the drawing board working

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directly with lawmakers
and the White House

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because we had just passed
in November at next policy

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00:13:06,250 --> 00:13:09,460
for the first time on
institutional investors.

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Now, the policy that came
outta the Federal Taxation

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00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,450
Committee and that was shared with all

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00:13:13,450 --> 00:13:15,460
of these policy makers is

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to support large institutional investors.

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Large meaning the, the big
folks that have 10,000 units

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00:13:22,690 --> 00:13:26,410
or more to be able to
sell to an owner occupant

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and receive an expanded 10
31 like kind exchange window

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00:13:30,490 --> 00:13:34,030
to ensure that they have
time to get that ready and,

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and it will be sold to an
owner occupant in order

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00:13:37,150 --> 00:13:40,330
to have access to the, to 10 31

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00:13:40,330 --> 00:13:44,500
very positive free market oriented policy

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00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:47,200
that will ensure hundreds of thousands

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of units could make be
made available immediately.

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00:13:50,980 --> 00:13:53,830
What the, the executive committee

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00:13:53,830 --> 00:13:57,730
and others did not pass is a
ban on institutional investors

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or any disincentives.

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So the White House is looking at ways

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00:14:01,690 --> 00:14:04,360
to prevent institutional investors from

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00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:05,950
purchasing in the future.

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00:14:05,950 --> 00:14:09,400
And so that means we go back
to our, our member committees

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00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,710
and evaluate what that could look like.

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00:14:11,710 --> 00:14:14,740
So we did see some draft
text of this bill last week

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00:14:14,740 --> 00:14:17,620
and it looked like it
was a much smaller number

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00:14:17,620 --> 00:14:19,750
and the idea was more forward looking,

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00:14:19,750 --> 00:14:23,410
how do we prevent future
institutional investors?

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And the concern we shared
there is there are hundreds

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of thousands of units that
have already been purchased

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00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,720
by these institutional investors.

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00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,520
They may not want them anymore.

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00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:38,020
It may have made sense in 2012
to do this and not in 2026,

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00:14:38,020 --> 00:14:41,650
but they have a tax
disincentive already to sell

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00:14:41,650 --> 00:14:43,870
because they're paying capital gains.

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00:14:43,870 --> 00:14:45,940
So that's where those
conversations are going.

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00:14:45,940 --> 00:14:47,890
We've had several think tanks

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00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,290
and others who have opined on this issue.

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00:14:51,290 --> 00:14:55,550
We're going to be listening
very intently at the bar at the

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00:14:55,550 --> 00:14:58,940
casino tonight to the
State of the Union on

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00:14:58,940 --> 00:15:01,100
what the president says
on institutional investors

356
00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:03,470
and how we can help craft this solution.

357
00:15:03,470 --> 00:15:04,670
- Well, we'll see if we can get them

358
00:15:04,670 --> 00:15:06,050
to put it on at the sports bar.

359
00:15:06,050 --> 00:15:09,590
Maybe. Is there a way we
can turn this into a bet?

360
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:11,240
- There has to be. There has

361
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:12,240
- To be.

362
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:13,073
So can we wager on it?

363
00:15:13,073 --> 00:15:14,045
- I'm sure there's an app for that. Like a

364
00:15:14,045 --> 00:15:15,860
draftings or something for

365
00:15:15,860 --> 00:15:17,630
- Yeah, so we'll, we'll see

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00:15:17,630 --> 00:15:19,730
because, well, you know, we're,

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00:15:19,730 --> 00:15:22,580
we've got about a minute left
here, so take me, you know,

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00:15:22,580 --> 00:15:24,050
we fully expect housing affordability

369
00:15:24,050 --> 00:15:25,370
to come up the state of the union.

370
00:15:25,370 --> 00:15:27,680
Your phone has been blowing
up for the past probably two

371
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,660
to three weeks more than it normally does.

372
00:15:29,660 --> 00:15:32,990
As this buzz has started to build in DC

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00:15:32,990 --> 00:15:34,700
and this legislation started to move.

374
00:15:34,700 --> 00:15:36,530
So take me inside your
phone in the past couple

375
00:15:36,530 --> 00:15:38,390
of weeks. So you've been talking to me.

376
00:15:38,390 --> 00:15:41,180
- Well, as much as we love this conference

377
00:15:41,180 --> 00:15:44,750
and the advocacy week conference
that we just had in January

378
00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:47,600
and these, we do have day jobs

379
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:48,920
and so the lobbying team,

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00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:51,680
we are very active on Capitol Hill.

381
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,760
When these issues pop up, when
you see a new policy proposal

382
00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,100
and you're hearing housing
coming up at the forefront

383
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:00,650
of the agenda, our phones blow up.

384
00:16:00,650 --> 00:16:04,850
We are a first call for staff
for members of Congress,

385
00:16:04,850 --> 00:16:07,100
for key administration
officials to reach out

386
00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:10,670
and say, where are the
realtors on this issue

387
00:16:10,670 --> 00:16:12,770
and how can we get your support?

388
00:16:12,770 --> 00:16:14,780
And that is because of the work all

389
00:16:14,780 --> 00:16:16,460
of you are doing in this room

390
00:16:16,460 --> 00:16:18,650
and members around the
country to make sure

391
00:16:18,650 --> 00:16:21,650
that our research, our policy expertise,

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00:16:21,650 --> 00:16:23,930
and our voice are the loudest when it

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00:16:23,930 --> 00:16:25,430
comes to housing policy.

394
00:16:25,430 --> 00:16:28,130
- All right. 10 seconds left.
We'll fill it with applause.

395
00:16:30,230 --> 00:16:32,720
Well I appreciate it and
this episode should come out

396
00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,970
probably the end of next week, so

397
00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:36,830
hopefully it won't be too
outta date by then. Well,

398
00:16:36,830 --> 00:16:38,030
- Everyone has liked

399
00:16:38,030 --> 00:16:41,600
and subscribed to the
advocacy Scoop podcast

400
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,940
and we appreciate your support.

401
00:16:43,940 --> 00:16:46,040
It's really getting a
lot of positive feedback

402
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,080
and we can't wait to
keep up the good work.

403
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:51,020
- Alright, time for our next
speaker. So we appreciate it.

404
00:16:51,950 --> 00:16:53,270
That's the scoop. Thank you

405
00:16:53,270 --> 00:16:55,340
to everyone listening to this podcast.

406
00:16:55,340 --> 00:16:56,510
Please be sure to subscribe

407
00:16:56,510 --> 00:16:58,790
and share wherever you get your podcast.

408
00:16:58,790 --> 00:17:00,020
And meet us right back here

409
00:17:00,020 --> 00:17:01,970
- For more advocacy scoop next time.

410
00:17:03,260 --> 00:17:06,440
Realtors are members of
the National Association

411
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:07,273
of Realtors.