Wrapping up the Year in ATP

00:00:16
Speaker 1: Guys, it's a struggle.

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Speaker 2: No, no, don't talk about Struggle'll talk about how wonderful it is to be here.

00:00:21
Speaker 1: For this our a last a pod together while we're in New York.

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Speaker 2: It's right.

00:00:27
Speaker 1: And we woke up today, ladies and gentlemen, to a winter wonderland here in New York City, which you know a lot of people that live in New York. I love it because I'm leaving tomorrow, so I'm going to snow a son. But a lot of people in New York are probably bitterly unhappy about how cold it is already in the city. How do you feel about it because you are stuck here? Sorry, buddy.

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Speaker 2: I love it, And in fact, I decided very early this morning while it was snowing, to get my boots on and go walk to get a breakfast sandwich for my wife, because I mainly just wanted to be outside in the snow.

00:00:59
Speaker 1: Oh wow, well I did. I had a nice visit yesterday with my old Doubles partner Lisa Raymond came into town legend and we had a lovely day. We just we went and did some You know, I have my favorite cafe that's a couple of blocks from me Cafe mod in the East Village, and then we went to Las Tacos, which is the Bomb Skindy Bomb. It's the best taco in the city. It is the best chicken taco in the city of New York. And I'm not going to tell you where the one I went to because it is still a bit of a hidden secret because it's you nice here, and the one down is soho gets packed and this one, I'm like, strategically nowhere to go.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure people could google it.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, but you know, the tourists and end up going to the one. And so because this is the shopping where is this one near, I'm just going to say, because you're going to look it up, the one near Union Square hasn't been like taken over by tourists yet, because that's that's going to be like a local place because it's near Union Square. I love it anyway, Well, that sounds fun those men, so Lisa and I and then we went we went to a lovely little place in the West Village and yeah, we haven't we haven't seen each other in ages, so it was really nice to hang out. And people always ask me, you guys still friends? I like, yeah, we're still friends. I'm friends with all my old doubles partners, some even my old girlfriends, me Lisa.

00:02:17
Speaker 2: Sometimes that ven diagram overlaps.

00:02:19
Speaker 1: Yes, it does anyway, everybody, thanks for joining us last week for the wrap up of the women's twenty twenty five, and this week we're going to do it with the men's. Last year, we tried to do it in one big thing, and then we realized after an hour, like, oh, we haven't even got to the men. So we figured we'd separate them up. And so here we are for the men's. Let's get into it. Caitlin, is there anything that you would else would like to say?

00:02:45
Speaker 2: I just think as an overview, you know, the two tours this year could not have been more different. And I think one of the things in listening back to the last episode, you know, and I think this speaks to the strength of both, honestly, but my preference for women's centers is just the variety on the women and the unpredictability, unpredictability and the divergence of storylines. And then you look at the men's and I am going to try really hard today to be talking about it. No, no, no, because I'm in I'm enthusiastic about tennis generally, and I like a lot of these male players. Just if you hear me trying to interject with players who are not Ni Center and Carlos Outgraz, it is my attempt to battle my own, my own boredom with their incredible dominance. Because on the flip side, it must be said, this year was all about them, all about that, So I will try to bring in other players when relevant, because I really do like the variety, and the men because they were so good, didn't offer us much.

00:03:47
Speaker 1: No, And you know, look, we did talk about the fact that I think one of the reasons why we wanted to talk about the women first because it was just so much more interesting this year with all the four different winners of majors again with Maddy Coco, Eger, Sablenka, And don't be surprised if we get a similar thing next year with the women, with the added extra of maybe Amanda an Asimova winning one next year and you gave her your favorite Player of the Year, and Sabalanka certainly deserves Player of the Year. But you know, you could make arguments for a lot of those players. But on the men's side, it's pretty bloody obvious who the players of the year are. And you said before we started the podcast that you think your player of the year was Sinner And I think the ATP and the number one ranking went to Carlos al Karez, and I say he will probably get Player of the Year from the ATP unless it's already been announced and I missed it. But your thoughts player your player of the year, I mean, well, we get to Match of the Year and all that sort of stuff.

00:04:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll break down, you know, as we did for the women. Players we maybe hoped better for, and maybe you want to look forward to coming back, players that are injured, pillaris are retired. Well, we'll go through all of it like we did with the women. But I think, you know, despite my preference for a Carlos, the fact that the two slams he won this year, to me were more sort of exciting. If not the US Open being the most competitive match, then you know, the French Open certainly was. I think center you think, wait, you think the.

00:05:12
Speaker 1: US Open is more competitive?

00:05:14
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, sorry, I think the US Open was less competitive than it was because I know knew allistoners were out there about to like tweet you sure, no, I thought. I think the two slams that Carlos Alcarez won one was competitive against Center, which couldn't have been more competitive honestly, the French Open, which we'll talk about at length, and the US Open, which yes, it was not that competitive a match against Center, but the dominance, yes, maybe Center was a little hurt. But like the dominance in the Carlos in his purest form was exciting to watch for those of us who like his creative style of tennis. That said, I think for me, Cinner won the big matches in the big moments when I wasn't expecting him to, and that Wimbledon alone was probably to me worth him being the Player of the Year. And the fact that he ended up, you know, winning the at pre tour finals, which we knew who would because it's, yeah, you know, a fast indoor court.

00:05:59
Speaker 1: Gonna get too much of an argument with me that he didn't deserve to be Player of the Year as well. I mean, you think about the amount of months that he missed.

00:06:06
Speaker 2: That's the other thing. He a huge chunk of the year that he didn't even play and win a ton.

00:06:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, looking at and also let's not forget he was one point away from winning the French Open, so he would have had these strain open the French Open, then goes and possibly wins Wimbledon. No such thing as if if, but potentially could have you know, looking at calendar Grand Slam. If he does win that French Open, he certainly would have been fairly I think he would have been a lot more jacked about the US Open. He looked tired at the US Open to me in the final. But having said that, you know, Alcaraz did what he did at the French was remarkable to come back and win that match. Because if you had paused that match at two sets to love, three five, love forty and said to me, okay, I'll give you ten million dollars if you says wins, or I'll give you a million dollars for Sinner, you'd be like, I'll take a million all day long. There's no way you're betting against Sinner to lose that match, not with the fact that he was serving well all the things, and also love forty. I mean, it was unheard of what happened in that match, and arguably for me, Look, I've seen some amazing we'll get to that match of the year, but I think you're right in that Sinner could could get do that. And when you look at the amount of points twelve fifty points from Alcaraz for the year, Sinner eleven thousand, five hundred, so only five hundred points behind al Karz and missing two months, it's hard not to say that he possibly without missing those events, probably, as you said also with the ATP finals, arguably is the player.

00:07:47
Speaker 2: Of the year if you do the math, because you also have an interesting prize money stat if you do the math, and you said men's tennis season is roughly ten months long, which I think it's even longer, but let's say for a given sac it's ten months old. He missed two months of that, and so for me, the fact that he plead less and won almost as much, his win rate was higher his prize money, and the fact that he won, you know, the last term of the year to me. You know, again, you could probably make this argument a thousand different ways, which is something that you know, these big rivalry discussions, especially when we had Ralpha and Rajah, which is the most similar comparison.

00:08:22
Speaker 1: Rafa and Novak there for a little bit totally. But yeah, I mean you're right, Caitlin, because Alcoa has won. His win lost record this year was seventy one and nine with eight titles, remarkable nine losses only and then you flip that around and see that Janick Sinner was fifty eight and six lost less. Obviously one less, but that chunk of a couple of months big tournaments, I believe, Miami, Indian Wells, those are big tournaments to miss. And Sinner won nineteen over nineteen million dollars and alcro has won eighteen point eight million dollars. So that in and of itself shows you how much Sinner one more in the big matches. Right when winning that ATP Finals was sort of like the it was almost like that should have been the tipping point who wins Player of the Year.

00:09:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, in a lot of ways, and to me, I think it kind of was.

00:09:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, well I don't, as I said, I don't know what they've done with the announcement on that.

00:09:22
Speaker 2: Well, you made an interesting stat Yannick Sinner won eighteen million dollars this year.

00:09:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, And just so everybody knows stuffy Graff for all the Germans out there, won nineteen million dollars in her career, her entire career, and you know how many major titles she won, twenty two, twenty two. So just take that and just lock that in the bank and think, Wow, how lucky these players are to be playing the sport that they're playing now When stephie Graff, who won not only just you win twenty two Grand Slams, but one like I don't know, well, over sixty tournaments probably I'd look it up, but.

00:09:55
Speaker 2: Plus a buttloaded doubles. Yeah, she had the career, the calendar gold nobody else has done ever.

00:10:02
Speaker 1: You know, Lisa Raymond and I happened to watch. We were going through some YouTube stuff last night for something else, and because my algorithm has like old tennis matches on an old match came up of Steffi Graff, Gabriella Sabatini playing doubles against Martina Navradlova and Hannah Manlakova. US Open. It's incredible, and were you were like, look at these guys playing. First of all, nobody talked, nobody high five, no one went to a towel, no one was gimmy sick. They were literally like, hit go to the next point, Hit, go to the next point. It was. It's on YouTube, go find it. It's hilarious. And second of all, can I just say when people are like, oh my god, the doubles players, Oh so and so's a great volley I go, no, no, no, no, there is arguably not one great volleyer. And when people say to me, oh, yeah, but she's a great volley I go no, no, no. Great volleyers are people that can folly on the service line. Okay, So when you serve in volley and someone hits the living crap out of a return or even a low soft return, and you're hitting a volley from the service line perfectly back to the baseline or down the line or whatever without swing, volleying or taking a chop at it, that's a great volleyer. Okay. So that doesn't really exist anymore on tour, there is not. I would say Carolina Mukhova might be the most classic sort of you know, we're talking about vollying from your shoes, vollying on the service line. I'm not talking about on top of the net. I'm not talking about poaching yes, a lot of the great doubles players, you know, poach at the net and they just hit the shit out the ball. That's fine, but we're talking classic volleyer. I would argue there's not one player on tour that can do it anymore.

00:11:38
Speaker 2: On the men's side, who was the last?

00:11:41
Speaker 1: I take it aback Sarah RANI can volley from the mid court pretty well.

00:11:46
Speaker 2: Who what was the last? Especially because this is the men's episode, what was the last great servant Baralier Mail, pat Rafter?

00:11:54
Speaker 1: Pat Rafter? Probably, I'd probably say him as far as no the were about the same time, but I would say pat Rafter, multiple US Open champion, I would put him in that category. I think after that it was kind of like that's when Roger and Rafa and those guys came, you know, around the time were young, when Pat was sort.

00:12:13
Speaker 2: Of would you say, actually Roger was the last great servant valayer because at the beginning, because he certainly could volley his major tactic, and then as the strings got better in the fitness and.

00:12:24
Speaker 1: You see him when he beat Pete Tampress at Wimberland. He was serve and volving all the time. So Russ was completely different then, But yes, I would say that Pete. I would say that Roger is probably the last great player that could serve and volley legitimately. Yeah, so that doesn't really exist anymore. I mean, there's certainly some players out there to still serving volley, but when it comes to the top ten, that doesn't exist anymore. So anyway, I just thought it was interesting. I don't know whose player of the year. I would argue that Janick deserves Player of the Year only because he came so close also to winning the French Open, and then he wins the ATP finals.

00:12:54
Speaker 2: Well he did.

00:12:55
Speaker 1: You know what I'd like to do?

00:12:56
Speaker 2: Tell me, you get them to split it from co I get out of here, Get out of here.

00:13:02
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just like them both so much. I'm looking forward to them just continuing this incredible rise. But when you talk about the points, twelve thousand, yeah, eleven and a half, and then everyone else, and then he going out to number three, which is Verev, I don't even know how he's ranked three. Is a one hundred and sixty. That is half of the amount of points, less than half the amount of points of both of those players. Bananas. I mean you cannot tell me that it's competitive. It's not competitive. And then after that it's of course Novak Djokovic at forty eight point thirty and he played and you know, well he didn't play that much. He actually played more than Sinner and Alkirez. He played twenty tournaments, Yannick played eighteen, and Alcres played nineteen tournaments.

00:13:45
Speaker 2: It's crazy.

00:13:46
Speaker 1: So Zverev twenty four tournaments. He played. Felix Asia Alisim who was next?

00:13:54
Speaker 2: What'te your mouth?

00:13:55
Speaker 1: Five played twenty eight tournaments. I mean that's a lot. I mean Taylor Fritz twenty three tournaments, Alex dimon A twenty three tournaments, Musati twenty three tournaments, Ben Shelton twenty three tournaments, Draper seventeen tournaments because of the injury. That's the top ten. So when you're talking about Alex, when you're talking about al Kraz and Sinner, yeah, those guys are dominating while playing less tournaments and everybody else behind them. Yeah, that's how good those guys.

00:14:22
Speaker 2: It's nuts. The cliff that the ATP Tour falls off after those two is profu.

00:14:27
Speaker 1: Found going to step in and be competitive with these guys who there's no one I think I think that Jack Draper can. I think that Ben might be able to shock once in a blue moon, just because he has such big weapons and he's kind of scary to play against because of those things. But other than them, I don't see anyone jeof wan Seka, not yet.

00:14:49
Speaker 2: No.

00:14:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is nobody out there that is as even remotely as good as these two guys.

00:14:54
Speaker 2: That's why you need. You need to watch the tournaments where they don't play, like the incredible Showdown in Kazakhstan, for example, where Quarantine Mute, one of my favorite French guys, got all the way finals before running into Danil Medvedev, who we should talk about totally separately, who won his only title of the year and finished outside the top ten. Yeah, but at least he won one title. But like, that's sort of what I look for for the popcorn matches on the ATP Tour because up until the finals, it's not super competitive, so it's just you know, for me, it's like watching the first couple of seasons of F one, The F one Show Drive to survive mainly because they didn't have access to you know, your Lewis Hamilton's or your Max Vershtoppins, and so they had to focus on who was going to podium between ten and eleven or who was going to still make points, And you know, the micro dramas were what drew you in totally because you knew the finishers were always going to be the same one or two teams.

00:15:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, it got very boring with a stop and winning like everything, and then also brought pride to that. It was Lewis Hamilton said right away with it and now at least the interesting this year totally because it got real interesting in the last couple of races and a new a new land On Ours congratulations champ.

00:16:06
Speaker 2: In the form in Atlanta Ours. So I think for me, I try to focus on the fact that who's gonna have who's gonna have the privilege of getting to the semis to lose to one of these guys, who's gonna have the privilege of being the person standing up on the podium next to them in the finals as opposed to you know, who's gonna realistically champion to challenge them? Because I think you're right, you know, there's a lot to like in that top ten. The only person in my mind, both because I like him, so I'm biased, and because I think he has enough game, is Jack Draper? To me?

00:16:35
Speaker 1: I think Jack Draper for sure.

00:16:36
Speaker 2: I don't get he's Ben Shelton because he has tons of weapons but not a brain is not real. I just don't think he can construct points well either way. Getting better at that so the way that you need to hang in and win enough in a five.

00:16:51
Speaker 1: Set match, I think he I think I was getting better at that. He's definitely improved immensely and I think that has helped him a great deal. And if he can continue to work on the backhand, I think he can be a threat. His fourhand is huge, service obviously huge. His volleys can get much better as well. I think he chops down on them way too much. He's sort of like a little bit like Alcarez the way he chops down, but Alcohaz is just better. Feel, he's quicker to get in. He's got just his understanding of when to hit the volley or where to hit the volleys better, his variety with the drop shot, he just has so much. There's just no weakness. That's the bottom line, is that those two guys at the top just have no weaknesses and they're just a joy to watch. Interestingly enough, Sinner got Fan Favorite of the Year the third time that's happened, and no one else has done that more than Roger Federer. So did you find that interesting that they gave the fan favorite was Sinner over Alcarez.

00:17:44
Speaker 2: Certainly because I think they're for two reasons. Number one, I think one of the things that is a little tragic about Center, although I sort of agree with it, his charms sort of like the scheme stale of a Novak Djokovic for example, who defends so well and there's no weaknesses, but it's not flashy or particularly you know, you know, well.

00:18:06
Speaker 1: It doesn't have the quite have the flare of our Christ, but right nobody does. It's like the difference between Roger and Novak. It's like it doesn't have was. I would argue and say that Nadal was a He wasn't boring at all. He was also no, it wasn't like Roger, but he had some he had something there. He had that forehand, the banana like we used to call it, you know, and he did have the drop shot on the back end. In particular, he had an each servant volley and also his his.

00:18:35
Speaker 2: Fine court PERSONA was so gauged and fired up that even if you found maybe his patterns or some of his execution less than thrilling, he was so emotionally invested. Yeah, you totally help the emotionally where's cinner? You know? And you could say the same about Jokovic. Not all the time he's calm as a cucumber, and then he explodes and it actually helps him, and then it's better, and then you know, that's part of the Djokovic experience where a center is just cool to you could comber the whole time he's I was called and so it is surprising to me that he won fan favorite A because of that, because his charms are less evident on the surface. And then B, I'm not sure if I started it with an A. So let's go with you did two B. Because there is some controversy about his course suspension. You know, obviously we've discussed it at length, so I don't want to reinterrogate, you know, the pros and cons of dat or whatever. But it does seem like there's no other controversy tagging any of the other players in contention, And so I have a theory I'm a little shock there, to be honest.

00:19:35
Speaker 1: My theory is the way he handled the French Open loss I think really endeared himself to a lot of fans.

00:19:44
Speaker 2: It endeared him to me certainly, absolutely.

00:19:47
Speaker 1: I think that that made him and the way he handled it and the way then he went and won Wimbledon, and the way he even talked about his loss of the French and his admiration of Carlos and how he makes him a better play and even the way you handled the loss at the US Open, how he talked about that, how he said, you know, Carlos did this different and that different, and that makes me need to I just think I dared himself in that moment at the French Open, just like as a rinker, just like Amanda Anisimova did at Wimbledon with her loss. She will so be beloved, kind of like Jana Novotna when she broke down at wembled after not winning that final against stephie Graff. She was beloved at Wembledon after that because of it, and I think that she will be loved so much at Wembled.

00:20:30
Speaker 2: I became an Andy Murray fan, someone who's I found very boring whose patterns I thought were a snooze fest and whose you know again, charms were not evident when he cried in front of Center court and what was it, twenty eleven or twenty twelve, losing to roter Feeder and all of a sudden, you know, it's like the Raki for Ivan Drago. You know, he's just a man. He bleeds, yeah, yeah, and you think, oh, well this guy, now, I got a root for him. See.

00:20:56
Speaker 1: I was rooted for him because I knew him personally, so I knew what.

00:20:59
Speaker 2: He was like. I thought you were going to say your theory was that Italy votes as a block. Well, that was like the Eurovision that was like they got everyone to jam the phone lines.

00:21:09
Speaker 1: That's also my theory I see, is that all of Italy voted for him because they love him so much. He's like a god.

00:21:14
Speaker 2: There. So, before we leave the subject of those two, which something tells me we will probably keep returning to those two throughout the entirety of our conversation, you alluded to what you thought was the match of the year.

00:21:32
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I mean it's not even close. That French Open final might be the greatest match I've ever watched. I mean it was category men's, category men's, like I think the Novak Nadal final at the Strain Open that was like six hours long. It was arguably one of the greatest matches. I would say that the match between Roger and Nadal at Wimbledon, when it finished in that dark and you know the flash Bob's going off at the end. And There's been a lot of great matches in in the men's game, in these classic five set matches, But as far as the tennis, I just don't think I've ever seen tennis played like that each other and Roger Novak and Roger and Nadal in particular, I'm going to say those three that you could find some matches that may arguably as good, but I don't remember seeing a match where I was just I can't believe what I'm watching here. If there's one moment on the court where Yannick did show his vulnerability, and I've talked about it on the pod, if you go back, it was when Sinner had that opportunity at love forty to win the game, go back and watch it, and he lost the point at thirty forty to go back to deuce. He missed it pretty I think it was Love forty or thirty forty. I'm not quite sure which one, but you can see he hits a foehand into the net and he immediately turns around and looks at Alcaraz's players box. And I believe it was that moment that lost in the match, because he is so robotic in those moments of like, how does this guy keep his cool? He just walks here, he just lets go of disappointment. Not big deal, Okay, it's Juice, No big deal. And I think that moment showed me his He was a incredibly nervous normal don't win a major title, but he doesn't show those vulnerabilities. And when I saw him whip his head around to look at the players box, I was like, WHOA, what happened there? His ship? He got shook. And I don't know whether it's they. You all yelled out vamulus, you know, to get it back to Juice, and he just he wasn't used to hearing that, because you know, obviously the teams get along and they respect each other a tremendous amount. But there was something in that moment that changed his physiology in his mind and his body I swear on my life because he lost the next two points and then he went down and played the worst service game of the match. And I'm telling you, I think that moment where that showed his vulnerability more than I've ever seen, including all year. I never saw him like that all year, in that very moment. And to me, I see those little things as a as a viewer, because I was so emotional. To me, somebody who was not emotional would be like, no, a big deal. He wasn't. No, what are you kidding? I was like no, No, that that physiology, like physically like the philosophy and the psychology, and that moment, I promise you changed something like inside of him and that's what cost him. I really do believe that in that match.

00:24:18
Speaker 2: I think you just articulated why I think for me he was the player of the year. We kind of just to go back to that for a second, because you know, and you alluded to it, which is just he was willing to look into these moments, that very brief moment where he gets unsettled and loses his preternatural care. He was willing to not.

00:24:43
Speaker 1: Only did it, he loses call. I think what happened there he also lost his like zenness or his like tunnel vision at that moment.

00:24:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, it pulled him out of the moment, and it changed the way that he stepped up the line reality hit. Yeah, and much like when he assessed and again I think he was a little bit hurt, even though he didn't blame it on any kind of physical ailment. You know, in the US Open final, just he was willing to stare down in the face, why is this guy beating me? Why did he win this match so, you know, so so overwhelmingly, And what can I do? And just being very honest and saying I need to take more risks. I look at him as somebody who is willing to take risks and play big in these big moments. Alchoriz takes risks, and Alacres certainly takes risks, but you saw him calibrate. And I think to be the player of the year, and certainly to be a player who's not languishing five thousand points behind the leaders like Zverev, I look at somebody who has never taken an opportunity to improve his ownership his self awareness. You know, obviously his game has gotten pretty elite. It's it's he doesn't have really any weaknesses. He's got a massive, massive game and he should be winning those matches. But the fact that he cannot take ownership over, well, he's his own shortcomings.

00:25:57
Speaker 1: His fullhand, his fullhand is it breaks down. It's technically not great. And when he gets nervous and he doesn't go for it, that's the side that breaks down and he's not willing to take. I don't know what he doesn't go for it on the forehanded, he pus he's out on it.

00:26:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, he starts pushing his forehand. He's just pushing his serve. And I think for me looking at the body of that.

00:26:18
Speaker 1: But that is also Caitlin, that is also technical, right if he had a Roger Federer technique on his forehand, and you look at Novak Djokovic, you can go back to Novak being twenty years of age, go look at his game. His serve is completely different. His forehand is completely different to what it was when he was twenty. So he was willing to change his sayin, but is his serve? Is his serve technically broken? His serve is technically is Novak's serve teach no no no is Alex rav serve. Technically it's not great. Yes, I feel like he has too many hitches. You think it's hitched. To me, it's all mental. For me, I think he has too many hitches in his serve and I think he's forehand he has a hitch as well. And that's what I'm saying. You can change the technique of a stroke, because the greats do that, and Novak Djokovic, to me, is the epitome of that. Roger fluid, perfect stroke production his whole career. If you look at by the way Roger hit the ball, a fourhander back and at twenty very different to her at thirty five, very different. You can change the technique of your strokes. Rafael Nadal he looks a little bit different than what he did when he was twenty. So you have to be willing to take those technical changes even as a great player, and they are great players at twenty to be the greatest.

00:27:34
Speaker 2: So let's segue this conversation into who in that cohort or remember somebody outside of the cohort, like a Jafon Sika for example.

00:27:42
Speaker 1: I think Ben Shelton. I think he's backhand, for example, was wo full a year and a half ago, and I would say at his best. His back end is very good now and it's only going to get back. I think his slice can get better. He's a big guy, so he's got to improve maybe a little bit on the movement. But I think as far as his game is concerned, he has a lot. For me, he has a lot of upside because I think there's technical things in his game that can get much much better.

00:28:06
Speaker 2: I want his coaching to get better.

00:28:10
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, listen, that's another that's another situation. Look, his dad was a great player himself. He's gotten his son to where he's at. Could he add somebody else to his coaching staff, like a Darren Cahill or like somebody like that that's done great things. Yeah, maybe maybe we'll see.

00:28:28
Speaker 2: I want him. I want him to add like a Spanish legend who's just going to be like, make him construct points like David Fier, like my good friend w Finish.

00:28:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, they go, well, let's listen, it's we like making suggestions here to people, that's for sure. Let's get into So. Match of the Year definitely was the finals of the French Open. Without a doubt, I would say we got to look at who was our disappointments for this year, and I think top on that list has to be Medvedev. Daniel Medvedev's year was atrocious. He won one tournament that was, as you said, in October in Kazakhstan, beating Mute in the final. What's Mehdi going to look like next year? He has a new coaching situation with Thomas Johansen really in his corner now, and you know, he was a mental disaster this year. What are we going to expect from him next year? I don't know, but certainly a coaching change will certainly help him. We'll see where he's at next year. It's not like he's old. He can certainly come back and play the tennis that we know he can. But I would say he's got to be the biggest disappointment of the year. Second, I would play I put sitz APAs what is going on there? I mean, is his career over? I mean he is ranked thirty four in the world. Now, this is a guy that was two in the world. I know he was, you know, set away from winning the French Open two times?

00:29:54
Speaker 2: Was he?

00:29:54
Speaker 1: So? Yeah?

00:29:55
Speaker 2: I love I mean, anybody who listens to the show. Knows that I have a major soft butt for tecbuts I love what he plays, and I have one for Medvede I have Yeah, I like too, But yeah, I think for me, maybe a little bit more of a subtle take. And I'm gonna twist this instead of saying it was a disappointment and just more like someone I am curious to see where they will take things next year. Is Taylor Fritz. Yeah, but because me had a bit of a down year. Obviously, he got to the finals the os Open last year, maybe punched above his weight, maybe didn't, but he established himself in that top cohort, that very top co herd of folks who can go very deep anywhere, a threat everywhere, and who can challenge. And it wasn't until you know, the kind of meaningless labor Cup that he decided to beat either one of the you know, he took out Carlos Ocres. Now those turns don't matter and they don't mean anything, but the very least he ended up holding the balls at the end of one of those matches, which he hadn't done. So I wonder what Taylor Fritz has in store for us next year.

00:30:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen. I've said it. I Michael Russell. I think he's done the most unbelievable job. And Paul Annacone, they've done an amazing job with him. I think maybe it's time for him to look for a new coach. And I've said it before. I think Michael has done an amazing job and he will get picked up in a nanosecond from a player. Maybe he said to a pass, but I think that I think he just needs to add something extra, and I've talked about it at nauseum. His net play needs to get better, and it can get better. It's got to get better if he wants to beat these guys in best of five, the Carloses and the Yannicks in best of five. He has to get better at the net because that's where Carlos and differentiate themselves above everybody because they hit the ball so well from the back of the court. But they can play at the net and they will finish a point at the net if they must and so and that's Taylor can't do that. And that's an area that he can improve by far. He has the serve, he has the groundstrokes, He's moving unbelievable. He has the tenacity, he's got grit. He tries his ass off, he tries to get better, but if he doesn't improve his net play, will not win those types of matches against those players. We had some retirements this year, some of your favorites, Caitlin Richard guth Gay finally pulled the plug on his career.

00:32:13
Speaker 2: One of the most beautiful backhands, one of the most head scratching grip formations. Yeah, you know he put turner grap only halfway up.

00:32:22
Speaker 1: We didn't need it all the way up. He only had a one hander.

00:32:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess he only uses three inches of the grip, So why cover more of it?

00:32:27
Speaker 1: Now? Why waste? Waste?

00:32:29
Speaker 2: Not? What not?

00:32:30
Speaker 1: As they say, Fabio, I mean, one of the most charismatic, class most classic personalities on the tennis squad and also a little bit of a clown town. Oh, there were clown towns all over the place with him. I mean he was like Curios before Curios a lot of times. I mean, he would lose his shit on the court like nobody else, but there was never anyone that would walk with the with the what what is he? I don't even know how to talk about this guy's walk. I've never seen a cockier yeah, swagger swagger in my life on a tennis court. Roger had a real swagger walking on the tennis court, but Fabio Fini was walking on their court like he was the greatest looking guy with no time for anybody else in the world, strut from side to side. Then he would look at you and then he would just start strutting across the court. So if there's one thing I'm going to miss other than the crazy, it is absolutely Fabio Fonini's walk.

00:33:31
Speaker 2: Here's somebody who kind of reminds me of Fabio Ffornini, who also retired this year, who I didn't realize had been playing, was Fernando Radaska.

00:33:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know he retired as well.

00:33:41
Speaker 2: I mean it's kind of he was early five to seven years ago.

00:33:44
Speaker 1: I think there's actually some classic matches between Vodasco and Foornini. So if you want to go on YouTube like I did last night and found that doubles match between those four great champions who all could fully by the way, and that match was least and I were looking at each other like, oh my god, that was unbelievable. Yeah, you know that those two played each other in some classic matches, and of course that Fordasco Nadal match at the AUSTRAI and Open, one of the great matches.

00:34:07
Speaker 2: One of the great matches. Fredend of Verdasco, his hates, was quite breath ticking to watch.

00:34:14
Speaker 1: Be hard pressed to see or find out if you did an ATP Tour pole on who was cockier on the court between Verdasco and Forini. Fidasco probably cared about his hair a little bit more than Foornini Yew. For sure, those two might go down as two of the cockies players, two of the kokier walkers on the tennis court. But sorry to see them go in the end, little Diego Schwartzman, and I can say little because I've never seen a shorter tennis player on the ATP Tour be better than this guy.

00:34:44
Speaker 2: He was.

00:34:45
Speaker 1: He would walk by me. I'm five ten and he was like five five, and I'm like, I cannot believe how good a tennis player you are. What a tennis player he was. I loved watching him play. He had a phenomenal career. Phenomenal career. If he had been six foot he could have won a make title, that's how good he was. I just think he lacked that little bit of power, certainly on the serve and all that. So what a great player he was, man, I loved watching him play. And what a tremendous young what a tremendous guy he wants.

00:35:12
Speaker 2: He's a lovely guy and fun And if anybody wants to see evidence of this, just look at him doing a very credible en quote salsa dancing like he is fun. He came to all of our parties. He's lovely, lovely guy, I think, happily married, yes, urgent yes yes. And frankly, we don't have enough South Americans represented in certainly the top echelons a game. So no, so just last one.

00:35:37
Speaker 1: Definitely definitely loved him. So have fun in retirement, my friend. I'm sure I could just see him having loads of feeling. He is the family guy.

00:35:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's going to have a good time.

00:35:46
Speaker 1: We talked about Chris yu Banks a couple of weeks ago with his announcement, so we've already given Chrissy's flowers. But Chris is out there as well, out of there as well. But one player I want to mention that probably didn't get any real talk about because we sort of hadn't seen him around for a bunch of years. But from me, the saddest retirement was seeing Kyle Edmund retire this year, thirty years of age. This was a guy that got to seventeen in the world, was really starting to push the top players. I believe he might have gotten if you might want to look up semi finals of a major at this straight and open. I think when he was quite young and everyone was talking about him being the next Andy Murray and his thank god we've got somebody asked Andy in you know, the British press were like losing their mind over.

00:36:29
Speaker 2: The guy, certainly the best.

00:36:30
Speaker 1: He was so career great and I and he's such a nice guy, and you know, sadly he just had a terrible knee injury that just he had three surgeries I believe on the same injury, and then he had abdominal issues and all kinds of a wrist issue and just he just couldn't catch a break. But Kyle Edmund, sorry to see you go. I'm sure he will. He'll be a guy that will turn up being like, you know, a billionaire at Goldman Sacks or something. I just feel like he's going to like do something.

00:36:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, he did, in fact, me say, at the Australian Opener, and he won. He was part of that Davis Cup winning team. Yeah that's right, Merey brothers. So at least he had a very great hometown moment.

00:37:08
Speaker 1: I just hope he goes on to do some wonderful things. Yeah.

00:37:10
Speaker 2: Everyone said he's like a such a lovely guy, such a lovely guy. Yeah, so I feel like again, Tennis giveth, Tennis taketh away, you.

00:37:18
Speaker 1: Know, thankfully Tenneth, Tenneth giveth. Well, then it take this away. Okay, you want to wrap. I still haven't mean to say that you want to lunatics. I do want to give a shout out to Holga Rune also, who really had a shocking achilles tear problem. I hope he doesn't push it too much, because what he's doing out there on that one chair after like two weeks after oh my god, after surgery, I was like, what are you doing?

00:37:42
Speaker 2: I like his attitude and I like his belief. So I'm going to choose to see this optimistically as his reconfiguring his brain physiology and deciding to manifest a return to the tour, which I guess. He says is going to happen, you know, after the it's unstend double listen.

00:38:03
Speaker 1: All power to him when he comes back. I have a feeling that this might actually alter his Like you said, I think will alter his brain mechanics a little bit, because one of the things that stops him, he's a little bit like gets a little bit tight and a little bit like annoyed. And I think when you have a major injury like that, it does, really does. It can affect you in a way that's better for you. And we see that through the years, you know, with players coming back from injury and they just they're just better for it in some ways. And I feel like I feel like he's a player that's going to be better for it. I agree, and I think maybe Jack Draper as well with Yeah, we're gonna mention Jack Draper.

00:38:35
Speaker 2: My hope is he When he is at the top of his game, he is really exciting. I think he's great for tennis. I think he makes an incredibly charismatic very yeah, very good and bad. He's very smart. I am, as you know, a Jack Tebra fan.

00:38:52
Speaker 1: I would like to see Tommy Paul be injury free next year as well and get backs inside the top ten. He's twenty in the world. He is injury free. I saw him at the garden couple of couple of days ago and he said that he's feeling one hundred times better. One little tennis God, you know we talk about, Please don't give these people injuries next year, David. I can never say his name, Alejandro la Videvitch, thank you. You can just call him folky folky. Please let him win a tournament next yeah, for real, Please, tennis God's let him win a tournament. Not let him, but allow him.

00:39:24
Speaker 2: Hear has his path, hear his brain when.

00:39:27
Speaker 1: He has a match point to win an atp Titland. Lovely guy. We know him because he loves animals as well. He's a sweetheart. Please let him win a tournament last year, just please. Other than that, everyone else you get to battle it away. But sadly, I just do want to finish on Caitlin. I am leaving tomorrow so I won't see you for a couple of months. I'll be down in Australia doing my thing and seeing my family for Christmas. I do want to just I know we don't like to talk about politics and stuff. That's shitty in the world. But on a personal note, for me, seeing what happened at Bondi Beach today, I want to throw out just so much love to my community. That is my community, Bondi Beach. I've visited five gazillion times in my life. I have run on that beach. I trained as a kid on that beach. I have swum in that water a billion times. I live and grew up twenty minute walk from Bondai at another beach a little bit more south of Bondai. My families go there, my friends go there, and so for the entire community there, I just want to send my love because what I saw today was just not what you see in Australia. So the terrible tragedy. So I just want to especially around the holidays obviously was it looked like it was religiously motivated with Hanaka celebrations on first day. But I just want to send a big, big, big love to my community down in Bondi Beach and down in Sydney.

00:40:51
Speaker 2: Well you'll get a chance be there in the day in a few.

00:40:55
Speaker 1: Days, yes I will. So anyway, everybody, thanks for joining us with the wrap ups of twenty twenty five thanks for being our listen.

00:41:02
Speaker 2: What did we miss? What did we get wrong?

00:41:04
Speaker 1: What do we get raped? Yeah? Tell us maybe what we'll do next week when I'm down in Australias, we'll do your questions. Well, we're going to fark some questions for you. We'll answer them for you get into the nitty gritty of all that sort of stuff. But for twenty twenty five, before we get into like talking about twenty twenty six and all the shenanigans over the next couple weeks, we just want to thank you you guys for listening to us and all the people that come up to us on the street and various things. We do appreciate your love, and we do appreciate the fact that you push that button on your podcasts and listen to us religiously. So we do appreciate so thanks for that. For twenty twenty five.

00:41:41
Speaker 2: Thanks everybody, send us your questions, comments, concerns.

00:41:44
Speaker 1: Kudoss Caitlin get out into the snow because it is snowing in New York, Babe, All right, babe,