Exploring careers in healthcare for physicists and engineers

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Hello, and welcome to the Physics World weekly

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podcast.

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In this episode, we discuss the career opportunities

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open to physicists

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and engineers

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looking to work within health care as medical

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physicists

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or clinical

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engineers.

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This week, Physics World's Tammy Freeman is in

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conversation

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with two physicists

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working in The UK's

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National Health Service,

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the NHS.

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They are Rachel Alcock,

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a trainee clinical scientist at University Hospitals

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Coventry and Warwickshire

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NHS Trust,

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and George Bruce,

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a clinical scientist

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at NHS

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Greater Glasgow and Clyde.

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We also hear from Chris Watt, head of

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communications

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and public affairs at IPEM,

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about the new IPEM careers guide.

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This episode was created in collaboration

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with IPEM,

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the Institute of Physics and Engineering

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in Medicine.

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IPEM owns the journal

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Physics in Medicine and Biology.

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Here's that interview.

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A degree in physics can open up a

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wide range of career opportunities.

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One area in which physicists,

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as well as those with engineering degrees, could

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apply their unique skills is within health care.

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This could be working as a medical physicist

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to develop and optimize state of the art

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techniques for diagnosing and treating disease,

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or as a clinical engineer,

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designing, maintaining, and improving medical devices ranging from

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ventilators to advanced surgical robots.

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In this podcast, we speak with two physicists

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working in The UK's National Health Service.

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I'm pleased to be joined today by Rachel

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Alcock,

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a trainee clinical scientist in radiotherapy

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physics

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at University Hospitals Coventry and Warwickshire NHS Trust,

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and George Bruce,

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a clinical scientist at NHS Greater Glasgow and

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Clyde who specializes in MRI physics.

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We're also joined by Chris Watt, head of

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communications and public affairs at IPEM,

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the Institute of Physics and Engineering in Medicine.

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And Chris is gonna tell us about the

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dedicated careers guide that IPEM has just produced.

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So welcome to the podcast, Rachel, George, and

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Chris.

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Thank you. Nice to be here.

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So

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let's start off with a few questions for

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Rachel and George. So first of all, can

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you just tell us a bit about your

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current role and what this involves?

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Okay. I'll go first.

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So I'm,

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training at the moment to be a clinical

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scientist in radiotherapy

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physics. So

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I did a physics degree.

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And

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in radiotherapy, we're trying to

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treat

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cancerous

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tumors with radiation.

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And as physicists,

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we have a role to understand,

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understand the physics is going on and

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basically have responsibility

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to make sure that when the doctor says

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they want a certain amount of radiation to

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a certain place that it happens. So this

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involves a variety of things like planning of

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treatments and testing of equipment and commissioning

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new equipment and software to use

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and answering doctors' queries when they've got complicated

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patients coming in.

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And

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trials are also part of our role as

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well. So it's a variety of things, really.

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And you're based in a hospital?

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Yes. Yes. We're based in the cancer center

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of the hospital.

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Okay. Great. And,

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George, could you tell us about what your

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current role is?

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Yeah. So, unlike Rachel, I work in non

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ionizing radiation. So I specialize in MRI physics,

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which has all to do with MRI scanners.

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And while there isn't any ionizing radiation,

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because it's a very, very large magnet in

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the center of a hospital, which is three

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times stronger than those ones you used to

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pick up cars,

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they can still be very dangerous. So we

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have to make sure that everyone is safe

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around the magnet and don't bring anything ferromagnetic

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near the magnet.

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There's also dangers to do with, radio frequency

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transmission and heating.

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And then on the more patient facing side,

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we do an awful lot of, sequence optimization,

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making images

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faster and look nicer. And we do research

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as well trying to develop new techniques to

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use MRI in different ways to detect different

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types of disease.

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K. Great. So what what attracted you to

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a career in health care?

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Well, for me, I'd I'd started out with

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physics,

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because I was always the sort of child

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who asked how does that work and and

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why. And then, when I was about 15,

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I landed in hospital, and that got me

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really interested in health care.

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Then,

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my grades weren't good enough to go on

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to do medicine, so I continued down the

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physics track. But when I was in about

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my third year at university,

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I found out about medical physics, and I

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thought it was a really, really good combination

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of the two things that I'd really enjoyed

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learning about. So that that really attracted me

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to this role.

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So for me, I

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for a long time, I was kind of

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attracted to working in a hospital. Like, I

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vividly remember I was sat waiting for a

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physiotherapy appointment in the waiting room, and I

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thought, I want to work here. Not particularly

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in physiotherapy, but just in the hospital. And

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I didn't really know what to do with

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that thought. I was never particularly attracted to

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being the sort of doing the sort of

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standard medical roots of being a doctor or

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a nurse.

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And I've had an interest in

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physics and and maths in particular for a

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long time and knew I wanted to use

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those skills in a way that helped people,

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like, helped people directly.

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And so when I found out about medical

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physics, that really fit for me,

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and the rest is history.

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Okay. That's great. So, I mean, what what

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training route did you take? How did you

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move from physics to

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medical physics?

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So

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I'm doing what's called the NHS scientist training

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program.

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So this is a three year program,

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which

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involves,

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being in

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use you're recruited into a hospital and you

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are a member of staff at that hospital,

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and you spend most of the time in

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your center, in your department.

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And you work on a portfolio, basically. You've

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got a long list of activities you need

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to tick off during your time training to

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make sure you've got the skills to be

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a clinical scientist.

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And alongside that, you also do a master's

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in clinical science.

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So,

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over the three years part time. So it's

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you have

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some time dedicated to the masters and some

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and but most of your time is in

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the center doing the work, basically.

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It recruits

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nationally

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every year,

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and hospitals around the country take part in

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it, basically.

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Okay. And, Georgie, did you follow a similar

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route for your training?

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Similar, but not the same. So, based up

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in Scotland, we've got the Scottish medical physics

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and clinical engineering training scheme,

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which,

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effectively is is slightly different because you do

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your first year as a pure masters at

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the University of Glasgow.

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And then the following years, the second year

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is based as a foundation year. So you

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rotate around and you do ten weeks in

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each specialism, which would be,

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for medical physics, it'd be MRI,

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radiotherapy,

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nuclear medicine, and radi radiation protection.

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And then at the end of your second

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year, you would choose one of those to

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specialize in, and you would spend a year

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and a half specializing in that. At which

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point, you would submit your sort of portfolio

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of evidence, which shows that what you have

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done is equivalent to what Rachel will have

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done. So you you're showing that the two

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things are equivalent.

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I think it's also worth mentioning that both

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of the positions as a trainee

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are paid. So you're are paid as a

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NHS member of staff. So you're not having

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to take three and a half years out

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unpaid, which I don't think anyone could do.

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No. Because this is this is after your

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first degree, your initial degree. Yeah? Yes. Yeah.

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Yeah. So I I did a physics degree,

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and then, you are paid effectively to do

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the masters and your fees are taken care

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of, which is very nice.

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So you both,

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studied for master's degrees,

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as part of this training. And then, George,

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you're also currently studying for a PhD?

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Yes. Yeah. So about two years ago, I

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applied to the chief scientist office for a

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fellowship.

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And so they effectively have bought me out

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three days a week now for the next

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five years or well, for the five years

283
00:10:24,690 --> 00:10:25,750
from two years ago.

284
00:10:27,035 --> 00:10:28,875
So that means that I'm now studying for

285
00:10:28,875 --> 00:10:29,934
a PhD alongside

286
00:10:30,394 --> 00:10:32,794
my clinical role, but it's quite nice because

287
00:10:32,794 --> 00:10:35,434
I get dedicated PhD days. So while a

288
00:10:35,434 --> 00:10:36,875
lot a lot of my colleagues have had

289
00:10:36,875 --> 00:10:37,855
to do PhDs

290
00:10:38,959 --> 00:10:41,120
with whatever time their department can give them,

291
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:42,259
I've actually been given

292
00:10:42,639 --> 00:10:45,440
guaranteed days to do my PhD, which is

293
00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:46,899
very, very lucky, I think.

294
00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,199
That's great. I mean and why did you

295
00:10:49,199 --> 00:10:50,980
choose to focus on MRI?

296
00:10:53,865 --> 00:10:55,384
Well, if I'm honest, when I was doing

297
00:10:55,384 --> 00:10:57,144
the masters, the m MRI was the thing

298
00:10:57,144 --> 00:10:58,365
I really didn't understand.

299
00:10:58,985 --> 00:11:00,425
I just I didn't get it. It was

300
00:11:00,425 --> 00:11:01,165
too complicated.

301
00:11:02,024 --> 00:11:04,684
And so I decided to do my MSC

302
00:11:04,825 --> 00:11:05,309
project

303
00:11:05,789 --> 00:11:07,629
in MRI to try and gain a better

304
00:11:07,629 --> 00:11:09,870
understanding of it. And as with a lot

305
00:11:09,870 --> 00:11:11,789
of things, maybe when you don't understand it

306
00:11:11,789 --> 00:11:13,149
at first, when you finally get your head

307
00:11:13,149 --> 00:11:15,309
around the corner, it suddenly becomes really, really

308
00:11:15,309 --> 00:11:17,595
interesting. And once you're down the rabbit hole,

309
00:11:17,914 --> 00:11:19,294
you find it really interesting.

310
00:11:19,914 --> 00:11:21,595
I also was really attracted to the fact

311
00:11:21,595 --> 00:11:24,954
that there is no ionizing radiation for MRI,

312
00:11:24,954 --> 00:11:27,294
which means that if you're interested in doing

313
00:11:27,754 --> 00:11:30,870
research or having healthy volunteers, the the doors

314
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:32,550
are more open in that sense because you

315
00:11:32,550 --> 00:11:35,430
can volunteer for an MRI scan, and there's

316
00:11:35,430 --> 00:11:37,990
much less legislation. There's still obviously protections and

317
00:11:37,990 --> 00:11:41,210
everything in place, but there's significantly fewer hurdles.

318
00:11:42,230 --> 00:11:44,090
Yeah. I guess if you're sort of

319
00:11:45,054 --> 00:11:47,134
studying x-ray based imaging, you're gonna have a

320
00:11:47,134 --> 00:11:48,034
lot more problems

321
00:11:48,414 --> 00:11:50,995
doing that stuff. Yeah. Definitely. Anything through radionuclides

322
00:11:51,615 --> 00:11:53,534
or gamma rays or x rays, you're gonna

323
00:11:53,534 --> 00:11:54,195
have issues.

324
00:11:55,855 --> 00:11:59,289
Okay. And, Rachel, why did you choose radiotherapy

325
00:11:59,830 --> 00:12:01,129
as your specialist area?

326
00:12:01,750 --> 00:12:03,450
So similar to,

327
00:12:03,990 --> 00:12:06,549
the Scottish scheme that George mentioned, the first

328
00:12:06,549 --> 00:12:09,429
year of the scientist training program, you spend

329
00:12:09,429 --> 00:12:11,929
rotating around different areas of medical physics.

330
00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:13,190
And I was

331
00:12:14,144 --> 00:12:16,305
frankly, my hospital gave me the option to

332
00:12:16,305 --> 00:12:18,625
choose which area I wanted to specialize in

333
00:12:18,625 --> 00:12:20,225
after I'd done those rotations. So I got

334
00:12:20,225 --> 00:12:21,605
a really good sort of taster

335
00:12:22,065 --> 00:12:23,524
of each of those areas.

336
00:12:25,345 --> 00:12:27,425
For me, the sort of different areas of

337
00:12:27,425 --> 00:12:29,365
medical physics, they vary in

338
00:12:29,740 --> 00:12:30,559
how much

339
00:12:31,340 --> 00:12:33,360
how much time you spend with the patients.

340
00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:35,500
So some are really patient facing in the

341
00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:37,259
sense that you see patients every day, you

342
00:12:37,259 --> 00:12:39,259
have appointments with them. That would be the

343
00:12:39,259 --> 00:12:42,540
more nuclear medicine side, I'd say, or, to

344
00:12:42,540 --> 00:12:45,179
ones where you don't really see patients at

345
00:12:45,179 --> 00:12:47,714
all, but you're working on the equipment and

346
00:12:47,714 --> 00:12:50,695
the physics required to, you know, diagnose them.

347
00:12:50,914 --> 00:12:51,975
For me, radiotherapy

348
00:12:52,674 --> 00:12:54,294
was a really nice in between.

349
00:12:54,914 --> 00:12:59,075
We are consistently involved in the pathway of

350
00:12:59,075 --> 00:13:01,254
a patient and cases of patients.

351
00:13:02,330 --> 00:13:04,910
Although we don't see patients every day where

352
00:13:05,050 --> 00:13:07,690
there's always a sort of new case coming

353
00:13:07,690 --> 00:13:10,090
in that we need to look at, which

354
00:13:10,090 --> 00:13:11,769
I found really interesting. I want to sort

355
00:13:11,769 --> 00:13:14,110
of be directly involved in that,

356
00:13:15,345 --> 00:13:17,264
and the problem solving side of it, but

357
00:13:17,264 --> 00:13:18,245
also having,

358
00:13:19,904 --> 00:13:21,904
sort of a balance of that and sort

359
00:13:21,904 --> 00:13:24,165
of behind the scenes working on the equipment

360
00:13:24,225 --> 00:13:26,545
and doing the science. I just found that

361
00:13:26,545 --> 00:13:28,230
to be a really good balance for me,

362
00:13:28,789 --> 00:13:31,049
which is ultimately why I chose it.

363
00:13:32,870 --> 00:13:34,169
Okay. Great. And then

364
00:13:34,709 --> 00:13:36,789
what key skills would you say are essential

365
00:13:36,789 --> 00:13:39,190
if someone's looking for a career in medical

366
00:13:39,190 --> 00:13:39,690
physics?

367
00:13:41,245 --> 00:13:42,144
I would say,

368
00:13:43,245 --> 00:13:46,144
communication, interpersonal skills are really important.

369
00:13:47,404 --> 00:13:47,904
You

370
00:13:48,284 --> 00:13:51,404
work in you're always gonna be working in

371
00:13:51,404 --> 00:13:51,904
teams,

372
00:13:53,004 --> 00:13:53,504
and,

373
00:13:54,524 --> 00:13:55,504
working with

374
00:13:56,509 --> 00:14:00,529
other physicists, but also other other professions, radiographers,

375
00:14:00,990 --> 00:14:02,050
doctors, technicians.

376
00:14:02,509 --> 00:14:03,809
So being able to communicate

377
00:14:04,110 --> 00:14:07,470
physics ideas to people who aren't physicists is

378
00:14:07,470 --> 00:14:09,710
really important and to be able to work

379
00:14:09,710 --> 00:14:12,264
well with other people is really important.

380
00:14:12,725 --> 00:14:14,664
And also, as I said, you know,

381
00:14:15,365 --> 00:14:16,345
some of the time

382
00:14:16,804 --> 00:14:18,985
medical physicists spend is with patients.

383
00:14:19,444 --> 00:14:20,725
And so you need to be able to

384
00:14:20,725 --> 00:14:23,384
relate well to patients and, and

385
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,720
have a good bedside manner and compassion and

386
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,019
things like that. So,

387
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,799
yeah, communication and interpersonal skills, I think, are

388
00:14:30,799 --> 00:14:31,539
really important.

389
00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:35,360
Yep. I I I would agree with that.

390
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:36,799
I think one of the ones that's most

391
00:14:36,799 --> 00:14:39,460
commonly quoted is problem solving skills.

392
00:14:40,345 --> 00:14:41,945
And that's sort of true for all physics

393
00:14:41,945 --> 00:14:42,445
things.

394
00:14:42,825 --> 00:14:44,904
Every patient is going to come through differently,

395
00:14:44,904 --> 00:14:47,225
and even the same disease will present differently.

396
00:14:47,225 --> 00:14:47,725
And

397
00:14:48,345 --> 00:14:51,304
all different scanners and pieces of equipment behave

398
00:14:51,304 --> 00:14:52,985
differently, so you need to be able to

399
00:14:52,985 --> 00:14:55,325
think well on the fly and solve problems.

400
00:14:55,839 --> 00:14:57,440
And the other thing I would sort of

401
00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:58,159
say is,

402
00:14:58,799 --> 00:15:01,700
being able to maintain a level of empathy

403
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:02,500
while

404
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,059
maintaining a level of, professionalism.

405
00:15:05,759 --> 00:15:07,679
And this is a a hard line sometimes

406
00:15:07,679 --> 00:15:09,279
to tell because you can get very, very

407
00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:10,179
difficult cases,

408
00:15:11,365 --> 00:15:13,924
pediatric cases, terminally ill cases where you've still

409
00:15:13,924 --> 00:15:15,845
got to do your job, but it's very,

410
00:15:15,845 --> 00:15:16,664
very important

411
00:15:17,125 --> 00:15:19,284
to in some respects, it's important to be

412
00:15:19,284 --> 00:15:21,845
detached. And in some respects, it's very, very

413
00:15:21,845 --> 00:15:23,225
important that you maintain

414
00:15:23,639 --> 00:15:25,740
the appropriate level of empathy as well.

415
00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:28,360
And that that's sometimes a difficult line to

416
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,600
tow because you gotta remember that you're dealing

417
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,800
with people and patients and entire lives and

418
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:35,480
do the best get make the job to

419
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,315
the best for your ability. But at the

420
00:15:37,315 --> 00:15:38,595
same time, you can't let that sort of

421
00:15:38,595 --> 00:15:40,195
thing overwhelm you to the point that you

422
00:15:40,195 --> 00:15:41,554
can no longer do your job and no

423
00:15:41,554 --> 00:15:42,375
longer function.

424
00:15:42,834 --> 00:15:44,914
So I'd say that's that's another really important

425
00:15:44,914 --> 00:15:45,414
trait.

426
00:15:46,834 --> 00:15:48,355
Yeah. So, I mean, that's that's really a

427
00:15:48,355 --> 00:15:49,174
sort of unique

428
00:15:49,794 --> 00:15:50,294
challenge

429
00:15:51,154 --> 00:15:52,850
of this this sort of work.

430
00:15:53,549 --> 00:15:54,450
So, I mean,

431
00:15:54,830 --> 00:15:55,330
both

432
00:15:55,710 --> 00:15:58,610
you, George and Rachel, you're working within hospitals

433
00:15:58,750 --> 00:16:00,049
in the clinical sector.

434
00:16:01,309 --> 00:16:04,269
But medical physicists and clinical engineers have got

435
00:16:04,269 --> 00:16:06,269
a there's a range of other career options

436
00:16:06,269 --> 00:16:06,769
available.

437
00:16:07,605 --> 00:16:09,945
They could work within academia, for example,

438
00:16:10,725 --> 00:16:13,704
performing cutting edge research and teaching and developing

439
00:16:13,764 --> 00:16:14,824
clinical trials.

440
00:16:15,605 --> 00:16:18,804
Or another option is the industrial sector, so

441
00:16:18,804 --> 00:16:21,144
working to produce and develop innovative

442
00:16:21,445 --> 00:16:23,144
medical equipment and technology.

443
00:16:24,139 --> 00:16:26,299
Now as I mentioned at the start, IPEM

444
00:16:26,299 --> 00:16:28,860
has just published a careers guide that aims

445
00:16:28,860 --> 00:16:31,899
to provide the tools and knowledge needed to

446
00:16:31,899 --> 00:16:34,320
pursue a career in any of these sectors.

447
00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:37,345
So, Chris, if I can turn to you

448
00:16:37,345 --> 00:16:40,464
now and ask what prompted IPEM to create

449
00:16:40,464 --> 00:16:41,764
this careers guide?

450
00:16:42,704 --> 00:16:46,225
Well, as the professional body representing medical physicists

451
00:16:46,225 --> 00:16:48,644
and clinical engineers as well as clinical technologists,

452
00:16:50,070 --> 00:16:52,470
The promotion of the workforce and support for

453
00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:53,129
the workforce

454
00:16:53,589 --> 00:16:55,750
is very much one of our absolute top

455
00:16:55,750 --> 00:16:56,250
priorities,

456
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:58,870
and a great deal of our work goes

457
00:16:58,870 --> 00:17:00,169
into doing that.

458
00:17:00,870 --> 00:17:02,789
And we've heard back from our members and

459
00:17:02,789 --> 00:17:04,409
the wider professional community

460
00:17:05,054 --> 00:17:07,134
that getting more people into the workforce is

461
00:17:07,134 --> 00:17:08,894
a key challenge that we face at the

462
00:17:08,894 --> 00:17:10,894
moment. So we put our minds to it

463
00:17:10,894 --> 00:17:12,335
and talked to many of our members and

464
00:17:12,335 --> 00:17:14,595
decided that coming up with a careers guide,

465
00:17:14,815 --> 00:17:16,355
which could be used by,

466
00:17:16,815 --> 00:17:17,634
both students

467
00:17:17,934 --> 00:17:18,674
and also,

468
00:17:19,210 --> 00:17:20,590
earlier careers professionals,

469
00:17:21,450 --> 00:17:23,950
would be a really useful resource for them

470
00:17:24,090 --> 00:17:25,630
to not only promote,

471
00:17:26,330 --> 00:17:28,650
the exciting careers that people can have in

472
00:17:28,650 --> 00:17:31,850
medical physics and clinical engineering, but also explain

473
00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:33,450
to them a bit about the various roles

474
00:17:33,450 --> 00:17:35,394
that there are, training pathways,

475
00:17:36,174 --> 00:17:37,154
and other opportunities,

476
00:17:37,855 --> 00:17:39,234
and also some of the requirements

477
00:17:39,774 --> 00:17:41,315
around, for example, CPD,

478
00:17:41,855 --> 00:17:43,075
the benefits of registration.

479
00:17:43,694 --> 00:17:45,855
And we've also been extremely grateful to many

480
00:17:45,855 --> 00:17:46,674
of our members,

481
00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,119
including both George and Rachel for allowing themselves

482
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,960
to be case studies for this to give

483
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,200
real life examples of the sorts of careers

484
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,759
that people can follow in medical physics and

485
00:17:56,759 --> 00:17:57,660
clinical engineering.

486
00:17:59,559 --> 00:18:00,619
Great. So, I mean,

487
00:18:01,054 --> 00:18:02,815
you you mentioned this briefly, but what what

488
00:18:02,815 --> 00:18:05,154
sort of information does the guide contain?

489
00:18:05,934 --> 00:18:07,615
So as well as our case studies of

490
00:18:07,615 --> 00:18:08,595
some of our members,

491
00:18:08,974 --> 00:18:12,194
we've also got pathways into the profession,

492
00:18:12,494 --> 00:18:15,075
the various training routes that people can follow.

493
00:18:15,309 --> 00:18:16,830
We've got a bit of a jargon buster

494
00:18:16,830 --> 00:18:18,589
in there because I think for

495
00:18:18,990 --> 00:18:20,750
even for those of us who work in

496
00:18:20,750 --> 00:18:23,330
the medical physics and clinical engineering sphere,

497
00:18:23,869 --> 00:18:26,130
we'll accept that most people out there,

498
00:18:26,430 --> 00:18:28,269
in the world don't know a great deal

499
00:18:28,269 --> 00:18:30,434
about medical physics and clinical engineering. So we've

500
00:18:30,434 --> 00:18:31,795
got a bit of a jargon buster in

501
00:18:31,795 --> 00:18:33,575
there to explain to people,

502
00:18:33,954 --> 00:18:35,494
exactly what we're talking about.

503
00:18:36,035 --> 00:18:37,815
It says information on the CPD,

504
00:18:38,275 --> 00:18:39,335
some of the CPD,

505
00:18:40,194 --> 00:18:43,154
training and career development that IPEM itself offers

506
00:18:43,154 --> 00:18:44,914
as well as other options as well,

507
00:18:45,369 --> 00:18:47,849
the importance of registration. So for instance, if

508
00:18:47,849 --> 00:18:49,149
you're a clinical technologist,

509
00:18:49,609 --> 00:18:52,029
why it's important to go onto the RCT,

510
00:18:52,089 --> 00:18:53,789
the register of clinical technologists.

511
00:18:54,809 --> 00:18:56,829
So there's a great deal of of information

512
00:18:56,970 --> 00:18:59,804
in there. And alongside the careers guide, we're

513
00:18:59,804 --> 00:19:01,565
also going to be launching a number of

514
00:19:01,565 --> 00:19:04,365
careers videos, which, again, we've worked with some

515
00:19:04,365 --> 00:19:07,744
of our members covering medical physics, clinical engineering,

516
00:19:07,964 --> 00:19:10,544
and clinical technologist professions and careers.

517
00:19:10,924 --> 00:19:13,140
And those videos will also be coming out

518
00:19:13,299 --> 00:19:15,380
out around the same same time as the

519
00:19:15,380 --> 00:19:16,680
careers guide as well.

520
00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:20,900
So how can our listeners access the careers

521
00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:21,400
guide?

522
00:19:22,259 --> 00:19:24,259
So the careers guide, as well as our

523
00:19:24,259 --> 00:19:27,240
videos can be accessed on the IPEM website

524
00:19:27,684 --> 00:19:29,605
at ipem.ac.uk,

525
00:19:29,605 --> 00:19:31,525
and you can find, an easy link on

526
00:19:31,525 --> 00:19:33,525
there and have a look through the careers

527
00:19:33,525 --> 00:19:35,765
guide and watch our careers videos on our

528
00:19:35,765 --> 00:19:36,265
website.

529
00:19:37,365 --> 00:19:39,384
Excellent. Thank you. So

530
00:19:39,845 --> 00:19:40,345
finally,

531
00:19:40,805 --> 00:19:42,569
perhaps you can all answer this.

532
00:19:43,289 --> 00:19:45,869
Could you offer one key piece of advice

533
00:19:46,089 --> 00:19:47,789
for physicists or engineers

534
00:19:48,169 --> 00:19:50,889
interested in a career in health care? Perhaps,

535
00:19:50,889 --> 00:19:52,190
Chris, you could go first.

536
00:19:53,849 --> 00:19:55,149
For me, as somebody,

537
00:19:55,690 --> 00:19:56,909
who doesn't work

538
00:19:57,285 --> 00:19:59,765
specifically as a medical physicist or clinical engineer

539
00:19:59,765 --> 00:20:01,765
but works for the professional body, I would

540
00:20:01,765 --> 00:20:03,465
say have a look at the IPEN website.

541
00:20:03,525 --> 00:20:05,365
We've got a great deal of information on

542
00:20:05,365 --> 00:20:05,865
there,

543
00:20:06,325 --> 00:20:08,965
both about the benefits of becoming an IPEN

544
00:20:08,965 --> 00:20:11,869
member. We provide a great deal of training,

545
00:20:12,009 --> 00:20:12,509
CPD,

546
00:20:13,049 --> 00:20:13,789
and education.

547
00:20:14,089 --> 00:20:17,069
We provide events, member discounts on events,

548
00:20:17,450 --> 00:20:18,909
and a whole load of information

549
00:20:19,210 --> 00:20:21,210
about the various career pathways and what our

550
00:20:21,210 --> 00:20:22,970
members do. So do have a look on

551
00:20:22,970 --> 00:20:23,630
our website,

552
00:20:24,224 --> 00:20:26,384
and find out more about the exciting careers

553
00:20:26,384 --> 00:20:27,585
that you can have would be the piece

554
00:20:27,585 --> 00:20:28,964
of advice that I would give.

555
00:20:29,424 --> 00:20:32,144
Excellent. Thanks. And, George, do you have any

556
00:20:32,144 --> 00:20:33,845
important advice for people?

557
00:20:34,785 --> 00:20:36,785
Yeah. I would just say for people to

558
00:20:36,785 --> 00:20:37,525
be tenacious,

559
00:20:38,140 --> 00:20:41,019
because, obviously, as has been mentioned, medical physics

560
00:20:41,019 --> 00:20:43,179
and clinical engineer, that thing is is sort

561
00:20:43,179 --> 00:20:44,160
of lesser known

562
00:20:44,539 --> 00:20:47,019
applications of physics and lesser known jobs still.

563
00:20:47,019 --> 00:20:48,460
So a lot of people don't even know

564
00:20:48,460 --> 00:20:49,119
we exist.

565
00:20:49,420 --> 00:20:51,019
But that said, the people who do know

566
00:20:51,019 --> 00:20:51,679
we exist,

567
00:20:52,535 --> 00:20:55,095
the the job positions are fought over quite

568
00:20:55,095 --> 00:20:55,595
competitively.

569
00:20:56,134 --> 00:20:57,815
So anyone who's managed to get onto any

570
00:20:57,815 --> 00:20:59,755
of the training schemes has done very well,

571
00:20:59,815 --> 00:21:01,275
which means that if you're interested

572
00:21:01,654 --> 00:21:03,414
in a role or a career in health

573
00:21:03,414 --> 00:21:05,434
care from a physics or engineering perspective,

574
00:21:05,839 --> 00:21:07,759
You need to be quite committed to it.

575
00:21:07,759 --> 00:21:09,440
You need to be tenacious in making sure

576
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,759
that you get some work experience and fill

577
00:21:11,759 --> 00:21:13,440
out your application as best you can and

578
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:14,740
make yourself the best candidate.

579
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:15,680
So,

580
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,740
for want of a better word, being bullheaded

581
00:21:19,125 --> 00:21:21,525
and enthusiastic are two very good things, and

582
00:21:21,525 --> 00:21:23,625
also asking a lot of the stupid questions.

583
00:21:23,684 --> 00:21:25,365
Because the number of times I've asked a

584
00:21:25,365 --> 00:21:26,924
stupid question and it stand out as not

585
00:21:26,924 --> 00:21:28,805
a stupid question at all, but you just

586
00:21:28,805 --> 00:21:30,244
felt like it was a silly thing to

587
00:21:30,244 --> 00:21:30,960
ask. Is this

588
00:21:31,759 --> 00:21:33,200
all of those things would be my my

589
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:34,640
sort of key pieces of advice that I

590
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,240
give to a lot of the trainees or

591
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:37,220
aspiring trainees.

592
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:40,819
Excellent. Thanks. And, finally, Rachel.

593
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:41,759
Yeah.

594
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:43,839
So my key piece of advice kind of

595
00:21:43,839 --> 00:21:46,179
follows from what George was saying. I think

596
00:21:46,325 --> 00:21:48,904
if you want to work specifically in healthcare,

597
00:21:50,244 --> 00:21:50,744
Getting

598
00:21:51,204 --> 00:21:53,765
experience in a healthcare environment, I think is

599
00:21:53,765 --> 00:21:54,585
really important.

600
00:21:55,204 --> 00:21:58,585
So I've had friends who have had jobs

601
00:21:58,644 --> 00:22:01,444
in areas other than medical physics prior to

602
00:22:01,444 --> 00:22:01,944
applying

603
00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:04,990
for, to get on a training scheme, which

604
00:22:04,990 --> 00:22:06,049
has really helped them.

605
00:22:06,349 --> 00:22:08,450
I mean, in my case, my, I didn't

606
00:22:08,990 --> 00:22:11,409
work professionally, but I did,

607
00:22:12,269 --> 00:22:14,929
some volunteering in a COVID vaccination center.

608
00:22:15,634 --> 00:22:17,474
And it's things like that that show when

609
00:22:17,474 --> 00:22:20,034
you're applying that you're not just interested in

610
00:22:20,034 --> 00:22:22,534
the physics, but you're interested in the application

611
00:22:22,595 --> 00:22:25,335
of it. You're interested in the healthcare environment

612
00:22:25,554 --> 00:22:26,934
and looking after patients,

613
00:22:28,509 --> 00:22:30,210
and the importance of that role.

614
00:22:30,990 --> 00:22:33,330
And that will really help you stand out,

615
00:22:33,789 --> 00:22:34,769
in those applications.

616
00:22:37,150 --> 00:22:38,289
Excellent. Well

617
00:22:38,670 --> 00:22:41,144
yeah. I mean, thanks. There's some great information

618
00:22:41,144 --> 00:22:43,404
there and some advice for people looking

619
00:22:44,184 --> 00:22:46,445
to follow this unique and rewarding

620
00:22:47,065 --> 00:22:48,045
career, and

621
00:22:49,065 --> 00:22:51,785
thanks everybody for joining us today on the

622
00:22:51,785 --> 00:22:52,285
podcast.

623
00:22:52,745 --> 00:22:55,245
Thank you. It's been lovely. Very much. Cheers.

624
00:23:03,259 --> 00:23:04,880
That was Rachel Alcock,

625
00:23:05,259 --> 00:23:08,859
George Bruce, and Chris Watt in conversation with

626
00:23:08,859 --> 00:23:10,720
Physics World's Tammy Freeman.

627
00:23:11,424 --> 00:23:14,085
Thanks to them for a fascinating conversation,

628
00:23:14,865 --> 00:23:16,805
and a special thanks to our producer,

629
00:23:17,184 --> 00:23:18,085
Fred Ailes.

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00:23:18,945 --> 00:23:21,204
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We'll be back again next week.