Nazi-Looted Art FOUND in a Property Listing (w. Kira from The Art Revival)

00:00:06
Speaker 1: Welcome to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foot, I'm Melissa Albranch. This week we're going to be talking about my latest foe move mom, all the reasons why you should never go to Times Square, The one time I saw a guy get stabbed and stolen art with my good friend Kira from the art Revival.

00:00:22
Speaker 2: How are you?

00:00:26
Speaker 1: I can't move like too much to the like my neck.

00:00:30
Speaker 2: I you know what you did?

00:00:32
Speaker 1: No no no no no no no. I was not at the club.

00:00:35
Speaker 2: No no, no, no no. You did the other thing. You had a full move he did.

00:00:43
Speaker 1: Please tell her to throw Magley's photo up there with the definition of mom, which is a bad movement in Haitian creole.

00:00:52
Speaker 2: My mother would love that ship because you know my mom is, she's on social media.

00:00:57
Speaker 1: She's out in these streets.

00:00:59
Speaker 2: Me.

00:01:01
Speaker 1: I can't I throw at my neck.

00:01:03
Speaker 2: Uh.

00:01:03
Speaker 1: I was trying to get this guy's number for my friend. I was at a sushi restaurant.

00:01:10
Speaker 2: Well if you weren't at Taco Bell.

00:01:13
Speaker 1: Not again, not again. And I did like a little like oh hey and snap to the bend and snap and I with the neck throw my neck.

00:01:23
Speaker 2: Out, whipping your hair back in.

00:01:25
Speaker 1: I got his number though, and I gave.

00:01:26
Speaker 2: It to my friend and are they going to call it?

00:01:28
Speaker 1: I think so. I hope it works out if I'm a really good wingman, are you? Yeah, because I don't have any shame, so like I have no problem walking up to a person and just being like blue knock over there, drink and be like, I'm so sorry, let me buy another drink? What was your name again? I'm actually clinically insane. I'm wanted in all fifty cents?

00:01:46
Speaker 2: Is that how you got your husband? Did you over here?

00:01:49
Speaker 3: You know?

00:01:49
Speaker 1: We met online? But I but I mean I've done and all sorts of unbelievable things in bars to.

00:01:55
Speaker 2: Talk to people, and my husband online too.

00:01:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's the way of the world now.

00:01:59
Speaker 2: I guess.

00:01:59
Speaker 1: But lied, Oh we all lie on the internet. No, no, no, no, no no.

00:02:04
Speaker 2: I mean when my mom asked, when my people asked me how I met him, I said that I met him in a restaurant, and they didn't find out that we met online. And so before we got married, because it was.

00:02:14
Speaker 1: Like you knew you were going to get shipped from your family a.

00:02:16
Speaker 2: Few Yeah, it was. It just felt at the time.

00:02:19
Speaker 1: Some of them worth it where it's like, I'm just saying it's easier to lie about that.

00:02:23
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:02:23
Speaker 2: And then then he went opened his trap and told the whole world I have.

00:02:27
Speaker 1: To go to a gala this week. They it's like an immigration gala for I honestly have no idea. I didn't read it.

00:02:34
Speaker 2: What are you wearing?

00:02:34
Speaker 1: Oh? I have a I have a whole like black tip. I have one look for black time ends and I just keep wearing it. I'm like Tiffany Hatter did the same thing. She bought one nice dress when she first.

00:02:45
Speaker 2: I don't love her, but go ahead.

00:02:47
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm like kind of indifferent. I mean I really liked the sort of like U like the beginning of like like her being everywhere.

00:02:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah yeah. And then and then she started speaking.

00:02:59
Speaker 1: What was she saying?

00:03:01
Speaker 2: Well? What did you say stuff that I didn't like? Let's move on.

00:03:03
Speaker 1: Okay, there's beef.

00:03:07
Speaker 2: Hope you're not began, there's no there's no beef. I don't know her, Okay, but I asked.

00:03:12
Speaker 1: For four plus ones to the gala. I guess that's plus four. I just like my friends are visiting, And I was like, well, if I'm going to go to this and they were like, we want you there, we want you to take photos, we want you to post about it.

00:03:26
Speaker 2: It is.

00:03:26
Speaker 1: I was like, that's fine, but I'm bringing my friends.

00:03:28
Speaker 2: That isn't let me tell you out of the people, out of your plus fours, I didn't get an invitation.

00:03:34
Speaker 1: I see all the time these people are visiting.

00:03:36
Speaker 2: I don't care. You don't think I want to get dressed up and go someplace. You don't think that there is some estate fine in my class.

00:03:43
Speaker 1: Is exactly what Magalie would say. This is exactly what Yes, yeah, oh you invited. I don't want to go, and I wasn't invited and I didn't go if you did invite me, but how dare you not invite me?

00:03:55
Speaker 2: I don't want to go anywhere ever? Wow? But and you know that.

00:04:00
Speaker 1: However, however, if you don't invite me, it's over.

00:04:04
Speaker 2: Yes, it's over. It's over.

00:04:06
Speaker 1: What happened at the estate seale?

00:04:08
Speaker 2: Nothing happened at the estate sale. However, I did think about you because you wear suits all the time I do. And when you buy things at estate sales. I hope people know this right, you all are buying things at estate sales and thrift stores and you're washing them right or you're sending them to clean.

00:04:23
Speaker 1: If I buy anything, I have a friend who works in like products. Yeah, and she said she went to the factories where the products are made.

00:04:29
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's disgusting.

00:04:31
Speaker 1: And she was like, don't ever anything. You buy every wash it and write it down if you can't wash it.

00:04:36
Speaker 2: Yes.

00:04:37
Speaker 1: So even if you get like a shirt from the store, yes, And you're like, oh, I got.

00:04:41
Speaker 2: Rapecially like towels and sheets and things up on the floor, even if it's coming out of the package. So I took a bunch of stuff to the dry cleaners dry cleaning. I need to take a mortgage out.

00:04:52
Speaker 1: Oh a long, Oh, oh my god, there is like my dry cleaner has a full country home paid for buy me. I think on the title, like it is actually crazy how much money I spent on drag clean.

00:05:04
Speaker 2: It was I forget what, I forget the stuff that I brought, But it ended up being like two hundred and sixty dollars.

00:05:10
Speaker 1: Dry cleaners run this town. New York City is owned and operated by dry cleaners, bodegas, and the food delivery guys. Like literally, without them, the whole city of criminal collapse. Most apartments don't have washers and dryers like it does in unit and the washers and dryers the shared ones in the building.

00:05:30
Speaker 2: No, you people are nasty.

00:05:32
Speaker 1: It's going to be the next strain of COVID comes from the washers building.

00:05:35
Speaker 2: It is disgusting dog biscuits. It is.

00:05:38
Speaker 1: Oh, it's like Freddy Krueger's there. It's disgusting down there. This is sidebar. We're going to talk a little bit about what's going on in court this week, what's happening in the news, what's happening in immigration and criminal court, what's going on, what is going on in the world.

00:05:54
Speaker 2: A lot.

00:05:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've always promised to bring like a fun little update from court. This one's honestly, well, they're never actually fun. It's usually horrifying, you.

00:06:03
Speaker 2: Know, but they're maybe not, but they're always kind of interesting. Is this like a but is this a sad one?

00:06:08
Speaker 1: The casting director, Yeah, for a different show that I said no to, asked me for like legal advice on how to sue.

00:06:19
Speaker 2: The network that they were trying to get you to come on.

00:06:22
Speaker 1: During the casting process. The casting director and I'm going to be so vague when I say. This was basically like, hey, so I've got like an issue with a contract with my my manager. And I was like, oh my god, are you seriously asking? You're trying to get me on the show and you've got legal issues that were Do you.

00:06:40
Speaker 2: Want to know what this reminds me of? Do you want to know what this reminds me of? Remember that time you were working someplace and you hated it and you tried to get me to come on.

00:06:50
Speaker 1: We're not talking about this. No. I worked out a small nonprofit and he was unhappy and I was there for like six months and me I tried to recruit Melissa with a huge salary benefits.

00:07:04
Speaker 2: And then I went and I talked to the person and she hated it. I hated the person, and then I almost newly hated him.

00:07:11
Speaker 1: It was a tiny nonprofit. Oh my god, it was crazy. It was all I didn't realize yet that I wanted out so bad, And it was like, what's going on is they didn't like or know anyone?

00:07:23
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, no, you knew right away you did, and then you tried to get me to go be with you.

00:07:28
Speaker 1: Listen, he loves company from.

00:07:30
Speaker 2: Me, I wouldn't do that to you. So tell me more about this person.

00:07:35
Speaker 1: Oh, it was okay, we moved we moved on, and I withdrew from that casting.

00:07:39
Speaker 2: No, no, no no, But does the person still need your help?

00:07:41
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:07:42
Speaker 2: Are you going to help them?

00:07:43
Speaker 1: I might?

00:07:44
Speaker 2: I think, are you going to help them?

00:07:45
Speaker 1: Because so basically I do this a lot when it comes to like people asking for legal advice, I kind of kick it back and I'm like, okay, do these three things, send it to me, and then I'll start working on it, just to do like a proof Sometimes it's really easy to just like DM me and be like heylah blah blah blah blah, I need help. So I usually like refer back with like an a couple questions just to like proof of concept. This person is actually like going to do the work and follow up and answer my questions because that's like, you know, dialogue between you and your attorney is so important. So I kind of did that. I pushed back and was like, this is what we kind of need from you.

00:08:20
Speaker 2: But I do think it's wild that somebody who tried to get you to come over to their camp now wants.

00:08:25
Speaker 1: To Oh for sure, yeah, oh definitely.

00:08:27
Speaker 2: That's wild. Why would you do something like that?

00:08:30
Speaker 1: It was sort of like, wow, maybe you're the problem.

00:08:34
Speaker 2: Probably probably probably did you get the sense of that the person is okay or not okay? Like what was your feeling about the person?

00:08:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't say.

00:08:45
Speaker 2: I think we know what that means. Friends.

00:08:47
Speaker 1: I went to Dave and Busters during my I had an hour between court and I was like in midtown and I went to Dave and Busters because I was like, I'm bored. I want to play some video games.

00:08:56
Speaker 2: Did you do that?

00:08:56
Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh, I loved it.

00:08:57
Speaker 2: When was the last time you were in David Buster?

00:08:59
Speaker 1: The last time was David Busters was a year ago? Well, okay, and I saw a man get stabbed and he died.

00:09:06
Speaker 2: Was oh my, I was gonna laugh. I started to laugh, and then you said he died.

00:09:12
Speaker 1: Okay, Well you can laugh at this part. I found out through my chiropractor. I didn't realize he died, and it was it's a shared chiropractor that Melissa and I got to.

00:09:25
Speaker 2: Oh no, no.

00:09:29
Speaker 1: She messaged me and was like, I saw you posted from David Busters. Did you see that that man died? The guy the guy got stabbed there and died and I was like.

00:09:40
Speaker 2: Really, chiropractor. They found it.

00:09:43
Speaker 1: I guess they found it on like the post, like it was like on GM or something, and I was like, oh my god, I was there. I saw that man go down like a secon ship. I thought it was like a fight, and I was like, uh, playing the basketball game. I was there. That's going to be sure, that's going to be the YouTube clip. Is I lived it. That's the Times Square stabbing at David Busters in Times Square on the phone, I know, and like it really had no business being there, but it is the nearest Dave and Busters to my lifestyle. Okay, perfect day for me, David Busters, taco bell and a stabbing and a little stabbing. And there's actually a difference between a stabbing and a slashing, and we can get into it. Yeah that sounds but like statutory there's there's like you have to be clear as a reporter and as a lawyer and a prosecutor that this was a slashing not a stabbing.

00:10:35
Speaker 2: That makes sense.

00:10:36
Speaker 1: I saw this, yo, it was a stabbing, not a slashing. He got stabbed.

00:10:41
Speaker 2: What have I said?

00:10:42
Speaker 1: Good?

00:10:43
Speaker 2: What do I say?

00:10:43
Speaker 1: I'm square?

00:10:44
Speaker 2: That's what I say every time I said that decent people have.

00:10:48
Speaker 1: No decent people such decent folk. No, no, it is true, nothing good could happen.

00:10:59
Speaker 2: I mean and listen for people who were coming to New York to our fair city, sure shore Shore, but real New Yorkers do not go to Times Square. It's so busy, it's congested, the food is overpriced and not that good.

00:11:12
Speaker 1: Yeah, you want to buy a dimebag from the people in the like costumes that take photos of you, don't.

00:11:19
Speaker 2: You don't need to buy a dimebag from anybody anymore. Go to a dispensary. But you're not a dinbag for isn't it all like marijuana duck like?

00:11:28
Speaker 1: Not cool? I am dining bag.

00:11:31
Speaker 2: Go in nineteen ninety seven. You're going to get a dime bag.

00:11:38
Speaker 1: I'm so excited. We're going to be joined by my close friend Kira, who is an art content creator and the incredible face and voice behind the Art Revival. Hi. Hi, welcome, Heira, Yay, welcome.

00:11:52
Speaker 2: He excited, met you're here.

00:11:54
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having.

00:11:55
Speaker 1: Me, Thank you so much for joining us. We're really excited. I thought it would be great to include Kira on this episode because we're going to be talking a lot about art law all the weird things that happen in museums and galleries. As y'all know, I do have some like deep lore before I was a criminal lawyer and an immigration lawyer that I worked at art galleries as an art lawyer. And Kira, I think we've connected on this a little bit.

00:12:18
Speaker 2: We have it.

00:12:20
Speaker 1: We'll buckle up because I've seen some crazy shit and the NDAs have expired. Really no, I wasn't under NDA, but I do have some cool stories, some crazy stories. Some things have happened. Yeah, but I thought it would be great to include you in this episode so we could talk a little bit about your work. I think we should play a quick clip of one of Kua's videos, just so you get a sense of what she does on the internet, because it's so fun.

00:12:42
Speaker 3: This painting comes with onions, Woa Tolmina Maxiicola is a master of life.

00:12:47
Speaker 2: And look at these leaves. What is that? Parsley?

00:12:50
Speaker 1: Wait, so how did you get into like the art world? Like you make these cool videos, You go to what seems like a gallery like multiple a day waiting for you to like run out of art shows to go to like I follow your videos and I watch them and I'm like, how does I didn't realize that there was this much fucking art in the world. Yeah, so much. It's amazing.

00:13:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially in New York. There's so much. I can't see it all.

00:13:15
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

00:13:16
Speaker 2: Really.

00:13:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are so many galleries it's insane. And not even galleries, there's like museums and public art and just yeah, everything happened.

00:13:24
Speaker 1: I had like an e Prey love moment a couple of years ago where I was like, every week I'm going to take thirty minutes and go to a gallery because I live near Chelsea, Like it's easy for me to just walk into a gallery and just like see what's up. And I was like looking for inspiration. I was sort of at like a moment in my life. Have you ever been in one of those moments?

00:13:43
Speaker 2: I'm always that, I'm always in a moment she lives And.

00:13:47
Speaker 1: It was fun, though, I to like force myself to go to a gallery because there are so many and it changes over so quickly. Right, Is there anything that's sort of like going on in the art world right now that's like kind of exciting that you really want to talk about or something that just like really peat your interest.

00:14:03
Speaker 3: So you mentioned Chelsea and have you seen the giant pigeon?

00:14:07
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my god, just.

00:14:09
Speaker 2: Looking at the giant pigeons.

00:14:11
Speaker 3: Literally just look at the giant Yeah. So that's not like a new thing, but it is leaving I think next year. It's amazing.

00:14:19
Speaker 1: So if you're visiting New York, if you're watching this on YouTube, throw up a photo of the giant pigeon.

00:14:22
Speaker 2: C Jay.

00:14:24
Speaker 1: Sometimes I don't want to see a little pigeon, but I did see the big amazing, so cool.

00:14:28
Speaker 3: It's hand painted and yeah.

00:14:31
Speaker 1: Oh I didn't realize that it's it's.

00:14:33
Speaker 2: Like a legit.

00:14:34
Speaker 1: Wow.

00:14:35
Speaker 3: And it's gorgeous and it's so cute, and yeah, it's just magic.

00:14:38
Speaker 1: That's incredible.

00:14:38
Speaker 2: I feel like I want to take this moment to tell people instead of going to Times Square, go look at the giant pigeons. Honestly, we were talking about how nothing happens, how much I personally, as a native New Yorker, hate Times Square.

00:14:53
Speaker 1: There's no art there either.

00:14:55
Speaker 3: There actually is art in Times Square, and they put they have a there's actually a Times Square art So true, I should And it's not that the day of Busters is it No, But they like light up all of the billboards in Times Square. They like work with an artist for like a minute during midnight. They'll project crazy stuff.

00:15:15
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool, that's actually cool.

00:15:18
Speaker 3: Then they had an amazing artist, Thomas J. Price, who creates these monumental people, and they had his sculpture of this like black woman.

00:15:27
Speaker 1: Where did you see? Oh yeah, I did see that. I saw your reviews.

00:15:30
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right that it was horrible being there, well in Times Square, so many people like recording it.

00:15:36
Speaker 2: It was like, but it was great, Okay.

00:15:39
Speaker 1: I went to Times Square for there's like the Time Square Alliance had like a party on New Year's and I got invited and it was actually really cool because they like caught an off part of the street just for like people at this party. So it was like this like empty part of Time Square in the middle of New Year's Eve, which was actually really fun. So that was fun to be there for that. But I think, I don't know. Public art is so interesting because of the ways in which like people relate to it in the way they treated you remember the like video that connected Ireland and the US. Yes, and people started doing obscene to cover.

00:16:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, people can't help themselves, right, and like people.

00:16:16
Speaker 1: Can help but expose themselves in the flat iron.

00:16:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's really true. How did you decide that, like art was going to be your thing? At what point in your life did you realize that this is really important to me as a baby?

00:16:31
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know, sorry, just like real quick.

00:16:35
Speaker 3: My mom is an artist, and so I grew up like around art, going to museums, going to exhibitions, and like it was always a very fun thing. So I just always loved art.

00:16:46
Speaker 2: Are you an artist?

00:16:46
Speaker 3: No, I'm not. I do like little silly crafts here.

00:16:50
Speaker 2: Well, I don't want to say a little silly no crafting. I take my crafting.

00:16:56
Speaker 3: I'm just saying I'm not like looking at my work and I'm like, oh my god, it's amazing, But my mom is and it's all Christmas presents.

00:17:04
Speaker 1: You're still making paintings for your mom.

00:17:06
Speaker 3: She's she's literally like you need to give me like a handmaide. Oh I love.

00:17:11
Speaker 2: It's not because.

00:17:16
Speaker 3: She puts so much pressure on me, you know, And I'm just making something for my mom, you know, but I'm like, oh my god, it has to be perfect to answer your question and to make.

00:17:26
Speaker 1: Art for another artist. Okay, that is actually I'm not cooking for a chef. You don't want, you don't want.

00:17:32
Speaker 2: I've heard like chefs say that that's like a point of a pain point for them, that nobody wants to cook for them and they just want to be asked over to someone's house.

00:17:41
Speaker 1: You know what, you chose this life. If you're a chef and you need to get the fuck over it, I'm sorry. I am No one forced you to learn how to slice like that perfectly.

00:17:51
Speaker 2: Anyway, back to your mom, Yeah, so she's an artist. What kind of art is your mom?

00:17:56
Speaker 3: She's mixed mixed medie, mixed medium watercolor.

00:18:00
Speaker 2: Ok.

00:18:01
Speaker 3: I think that's why I'm not an artist because at the age of like six, I'm drawing nothing and she's drawing a body and I'm like, oh, I can't do that, and I'm a perfectionist. So I'm like, I suck, you know, even though she's like whatever, thirty something. So yeah, I'm not an artist, and I love art. I really I love art.

00:18:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, clearly clearly if you're you know, spending your days chopesing around the city to like look at it and also to share it with other people. I think I think wow to see it.

00:18:30
Speaker 1: Okay, So on TikTok you covered a story of Kersha Kashell, who was women's only art lounge and was sued for discrimination. I wanted to bring you on to talk about this today because dealing with civil rights laws and Title nine and how these laws are enforced and how discrimination cases sort of make it to a courtroom and how they're sort of enforced around the country was very interesting to me. So when I heard about this, I actually heard about it from your video. I thought it would just be cool to sort of get into it. So could you tell us a little bit about that situation, like what actually happened that precipitated a discrimination lawsuit against an artist who was having a women's only sort of lounge.

00:19:13
Speaker 2: Can you sort of share with this? Also, like what kind of art does Krisha do? Like what's her Oh yeah, what's her medium?

00:19:20
Speaker 3: Well, so she is not necessary, she's more of like a performance art. She's just like an artsy person, gotcha. But before the art lounge, she actually faked a Picasso. So let me tell you about the art lounge for Okay, Yeah, So at the Mona, which is a museum in Tasmania who her husband actually owns the museum. She was like, I want to make a woman's only art lounge. And it was this fabulous velvet green area and she had great art there, world renowned art, and only women or people identifying as women could come in and see the art. So this man came in, bought a ticket to the museum and was like, I want to go to the women's only lounge and they were like no. He sued for discrimination, he won, and then she appealed and the whole thing was kind of crazy because she had all these women, like thirty or twenty or thirty women, yeah, in suits. She created this woman's only art lounge. A man named Jason Laus suit her for discrimination and the court ended up ruling in laws favor. And they walk into court and they're like dancing and it's like, oh, that's so cool. But then she gets up on stage, well gets up on the Yeah.

00:20:30
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know in Tania what the sort of looked like. I know they wear wigs.

00:20:35
Speaker 3: And she basically says that that that the purpose of the art lounge was to discriminate against men because women had been discriminated for centuries.

00:20:44
Speaker 1: Okay, so like, if you are watching this and you are doing that, please don't admit to discrimination and open court in defiance of your attorney. I would that would be so treacherous for your if I were your lawyer representing you and you no, no, no no no, I was no.

00:20:58
Speaker 2: No no no. Mlissen that a. This is wondering though, I wonder since she is a performance artist, could that be considered performance art? Right?

00:21:08
Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah, there was something that she said that it was like law fifty seven fifty six, but it's said that certain groups who had been discriminated, like people of color or women, can discriminate if it leads to more equality.

00:21:24
Speaker 1: It's something interesting. So there are some like similar laws in the US where like you can technically, like there's a there's a big question on the bar exam when I took it that, like you can technically break the law and advise your client to break the law in very specific situations if it is to prove that a law is like specifically unjust. It's like a very narrow sort of definition, like you can't do it to prove that like robbing is okay, like you can't like it. You can't tell them like oh your pocket, yeah, like go for it. And it's like a very specific sort of I guess technically crimes that you can break the law and commit the crime in order to then go on and have standing in front of certain courts to then try your case.

00:22:11
Speaker 2: So she didn't win. Initially she lost. The guy won, yes, right, And what happened then was that at that point did they sort of close the exhibition at the said the library, but at the museum, or did they allow men to attend.

00:22:26
Speaker 3: So when he won, the judge was like, was like open the lounge to anybody, and she was like, no, thank you, So they closed it down completely. Got and then she won her appeal and then she was allowed to open it up again, and then she opened it up and then she got on stage. Well she had a little interview and she was like, I want to thank the man his name with Jason Low. I want to thank Jason Wow so much pursuing me because you basically show that like women are better than men, the men can keep appealing and this is what Kersha has to say to them. We'll see how the men take it.

00:23:00
Speaker 2: And then are a little hysterical. I'm a bit concerned.

00:23:03
Speaker 3: They're troubled by the power of women. And then she's like, any man that wants to work in the lounge can apply to be a butler. Oh women, yeah, I love that actually. But about the Picasso, Oh yeah, there was she yes, in the lounge, there was like actual art, like I forgot who it was, but cool art, you know. But she was in the lounge and she's like, I need a Pilasso. And she even is quoted by saying that a lot of her friends have Picassos. So she's like, I could get a Pilasso, but I wanted a green Piicasso because everything's in the lounge. So she painted her own green Piicasso and pretended like it was real, and then it was it came out that it was fake, and then she was like, guys, I've been waiting.

00:23:49
Speaker 1: She sounds so cool, so fun.

00:23:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the whole point of her painting the Picasso was to be found out, to be found out, y gotcha? And then does anything happen? I mean I'm assuming that something could only happen if you tried to sell it as a real Picasso.

00:24:07
Speaker 1: I don't think, yeah, she probably wasn't impressed. She can't forge it, she was never made.

00:24:13
Speaker 3: She basically made up a whole.

00:24:15
Speaker 1: If she was like charging admission to go in and see the Picasso claiming it was.

00:24:21
Speaker 3: Wasn't she No, it's probably lounge was yeah right, No one was paying to enter the women's lounge, gotcha.

00:24:29
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:24:29
Speaker 3: And then actually the Paassa Foundation responded and they were like, it's all right, okay, this is the current update with the woman who thanked a Picasso. Picasso found should have gents about the forged paso. So they say, well, we can only regret the situation and the current overexposure. We believe that this matter is now closed. Oh, everything's all right.

00:24:48
Speaker 2: Yeah. So with her as that one man, one man, a typical.

00:24:55
Speaker 1: Being, like there's one place I'm not allowed. I'm gonna freak out and I'm gonna sue over like that.

00:25:00
Speaker 2: It is a natural quote. The men are acting a little hysterical. They may appeal, but they're not appealing to me. I love that. That is great, that's great, all right.

00:25:13
Speaker 1: Let's get into I thought it would be nice to have care join us because we're going to be talking a lot about stolen art. So Warhols were stolen. This lawsuit is from twenty twenty five. This man, Thomas Trotta, was arrested and charged and sentenced to eight years in federal prison for his role in an art theft ring. So this case was actually a federal case because it involved like multiple states in New York, New.

00:25:41
Speaker 2: Jersey, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, North, North Dakota.

00:25:45
Speaker 1: Actually, I bet there's like a there's probably like one incredible art museum in North Dakota.

00:25:49
Speaker 2: Probably the one, the one, but we don't know of North Dakota people of.

00:25:55
Speaker 1: North Dakota police. Yeah, man, let us correct us, correct us, so that we got wrong. I've never been.

00:26:01
Speaker 3: Never it's beautiful, It's probably really great.

00:26:03
Speaker 2: There's I'm sure. I'm sure it's gorgeous. Actually, very sure.

00:26:07
Speaker 1: Which ones? Where the where those four heads are those guys. It's like they've got the four dudes. They're like all the the presidents, the dead ones. Oh yeah, yeah, Now that's in North Dakota. I think I don't fact check fact check me. Common below Trump.

00:26:26
Speaker 2: Wants to have his Did you hear that that Trump wants to have his head chiseled into next to Lincoln I'm sorry.

00:26:33
Speaker 1: Okay, So like I know my I know my angles, Like we have these cameras set up like very specifically for my angles. I would never if I had those ankles, I would never be like, let's memorialize this in the side of a fucking mountain. I'm sorry, I am like pretty snatched, like I'm not like I'm six seven, like I'm I'm not like O my ten put my face on a mountain and like I'm me but like the president saying that, but he.

00:26:59
Speaker 2: But okay, but he's not looking at himself like the rest of us are looking at him. He's got all kinds of.

00:27:05
Speaker 1: Ros I mean, he's not looking at himself at all. He's unconscious half the time, Like I think there's like a diminished capacity.

00:27:12
Speaker 2: No, I think I actually think that this man is looking at himself. And he's just like, yeah, this is no.

00:27:20
Speaker 1: Put this on a mountain.

00:27:21
Speaker 2: Put this on a mountain, a mountain, on a stamp.

00:27:26
Speaker 1: He wants to what colors the mountain. Is it like an orange hue or.

00:27:30
Speaker 2: Is it No, it's not.

00:27:32
Speaker 1: It's like all I was going to say, it might actually work.

00:27:34
Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it's like I think it's like it's like a white.

00:27:37
Speaker 1: Stony white mountain.

00:27:38
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, gray, yeah yeah.

00:27:42
Speaker 1: I wonder if the people of North Dakota are upset about this.

00:27:45
Speaker 2: Is it really in North Dakota.

00:27:46
Speaker 1: It might be South Dakota.

00:27:48
Speaker 2: It's in the Dakota.

00:27:49
Speaker 1: One of the digress, I would go brief recess on the road, join us next week, yep, road trip. But they stole like all these different artworks from different establishments. One was they snuck in through a tent and stole it from the museum because they were having like a party. And because they stole the paintings in different states, it technically invoked the Commerce Clause of the Constitution. So commerce clause is we're going to do like a little audio there. I want to fly in Okay. But they put the Commerce Clause on both my shoulders because I know all about the Commerce Clause because they don't fucking shut up about it. In law school, all they talk about is the damn Commerce Clause. So the Commerce Clause is basically the government, the federal government can regulate and has jurisdiction over anything having to do with interstate commerce. So anything that crosses the state line is technically interstate commerce. And it's like this like weird part of the law where technically, like the states and the federal government are always beefing over like who's going to tell who to do what, and the federal government over the history of the nation was like, hey, anytime business crosses the border between states, it's we take jurisdiction. That's mine, baby. So technically, because they were robbing different states, it was governed by the federal jurisdiction, so they had to go to federal court for these crimes. They were arrested and charged and Thomas ended up serving eight year sentence, so he's currently in jail. Person currently in But this is like one of these I don't know, I thought it was really interesting. There's like this common trend in art theft where it's almost like kind of sexy the way that like people and the news sort of like deal with art theft. It's sort of like one of these like cool crimes that people are It's not like, oh my god, this like awful thing happened. It's like there's sort of.

00:29:45
Speaker 2: Like this like a little bit of like a victimless crime, right.

00:29:48
Speaker 1: Like yeah, or like it's a crime of like the ultra wealthy and like we don't feel too sad about it. There's just like I thought it was cool from like a cultural perspective of like the way that people are going to be tree this case is people really tune in because you're right, it is like a victimless crime.

00:30:06
Speaker 2: It feels that way. It does feel that way.

00:30:08
Speaker 1: Are there other like stolen looted art situations that you know about that you want to talk a little bit about.

00:30:14
Speaker 3: Recently there was a Nazi looted art situation.

00:30:18
Speaker 1: All right, yeah, I heard about this. Yeah.

00:30:20
Speaker 3: He was a man very close to Hitler got this artwork by frag Algario, that's the artist, and it's called Portrait of a Lady and then it like passed hands and it went to his financial advisor, and then it went to his daughter. And she's been living in Argentina and for ten years, these journalists were trying to get it and.

00:30:40
Speaker 1: They like could not did they know where it was?

00:30:43
Speaker 3: They couldn't know. They didn't find it right, they didn't know where it was. They just thought that she had it.

00:30:48
Speaker 1: And he's just like a huge problem. Like Nazi looted art was just sort of like blasted around the world. Like Hitler had like a really systematic We talked about it in law school. They had like a systematic way in which he was like looting museums, galleries, people's homes and sort of like appraising and then redistributing the artwork as an asset to people in his circle. Yeah.

00:31:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the artwork was stolen from this art dealer. So yeah, he had thousands of his work store.

00:31:17
Speaker 2: Wow.

00:31:18
Speaker 3: Anyway, so over ten years that they were trying to find this artwork, and this journalist like in like a la last ditch effort, he shows up to the house of this woman. He knocks on the door if she doesn't answer, because she has an answer for ten years. And then in the yard there's a for sale sign and he like gets back in his hotel and he's like, let me look up the real estate, let's say. And then above the couch is the painting.

00:31:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked about that. That was the one that I told you about. It was the person found it in Zillow like they were looking at they were looking for a house. I didn't realize it. I didn't realize it was that. Yeah, that situation, but it was on the Zillow ad of the house. The art that had been stolen by the nuts had been living in this woman's house for years.

00:32:02
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so he called in all the proper people they like raided the house and it was missing, and in its place was this like tapestry of horses. And then they put these people on house arrest and they were like, listen, you have this thing, and they're like, mind, we don't.

00:32:17
Speaker 1: Imagine being that, Like tapestry of horses are just like the understudy for like the real star, and like you've got to go on. Everyone's watching you and you're like everyone showed up to see the star and you're just like a crusty.

00:32:29
Speaker 3: But it could have been a really cute tapistry, like we don't know what.

00:32:32
Speaker 1: Like we don't know. Yeah, thank you for protecting art. Thank you for protecting the identity of that, because we don't know it could be like a fierce you're right textile.

00:32:40
Speaker 2: Yeah.

00:32:40
Speaker 3: So the people, the the woman, her and her husband were you know, all the lost of prosecuted or whatever, and now they're in big trouble. Oh oh the painting, So where is the bab It's unfound. The people got on house arrest and then they were like, and then they try to like sell it to Yeah, they were like can you sell it? And they were like no, you're in trouble. So now they're like going to be prosecuted for like forgery, not forgery for.

00:33:11
Speaker 2: It. But let me ask you this though. So the way that the painting came into their hands was that it had belonged not belonged but the but the father of the woman had stolen it.

00:33:25
Speaker 3: Well, this head Nazi official got it from well, stole it from this art dealer, correct, and then he gave it or somehow his financial advisor got it right, and then he died and it went to the daughter.

00:33:37
Speaker 2: Right. So do we know for sure that the daughter knew the origin of that painting.

00:33:43
Speaker 3: No, but she gave it over and they contacted her for ten years.

00:33:48
Speaker 1: Gotcha, Okay, So probably know if you had like the opportunity at that point, you had.

00:33:53
Speaker 2: The chance to do the right thing, and you did it, and you hit it, and you hit it.

00:33:56
Speaker 1: That's weird, a little sauce, yeah, but yeah, And there is a law in the books in Argentina about how like being in possession of stolen goods is technically a crime. But you know, we have two things are needed for every crime, men's rea and act as raya. So you need the mental state to me the crime, but also a physical act too, So this would be the physical act of concealment, and then the mental state would be the knowledge of this being stolen.

00:34:22
Speaker 2: I guess I suppose if I mean, obviously she hid it, so she probably did sort of know. But I wonder if if I go to an estate sale that's what I do. No no, no no, But I buy a piece of art that I like, and I hang it in my home and I paid five dollars for it at a garage sale or something, I could very well not know that it was stolen. And then if somebody finds it and they say, hey, this is a stolen piece of art, and I say, well, I bought it in a garage.

00:34:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the opportunity to remedy. So if you're given the opportunity to make it right. There are couple of different lawsuits where I think, like the first one was actually a celebrity and that she had a stolen artwork that was looted by the Nazis and she was sued for it. But there wasn't really the legal case law precedent. She was kind of the first. It was like in the seventies or sixties.

00:35:19
Speaker 2: You're looking at me like I was there. No, I didn't know. I was just working. You gave me a look like do you remember it from Go Fuck Yourself? Michael.

00:35:27
Speaker 1: Anyways, thank you for joining us, Kira un This would be my last recording.

00:35:34
Speaker 2: Anyway. But right so, I'm just curious what would happen to somebody like that she bought it, but not we're assuming that she didn't know what she was.

00:35:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, they wouldn't just like you know, show up and arrest her for possession of it, but given an opportunity to sort of remedy the situation before seeking to press charges or prosecuting or arresting this person. I mean, you'd be given the opportunity to which is actually like kind of unusual for these types of crimes, like if you rob a store, Right, we have to make sure that this person actually has the requisite men's raya, the mental state end that they actually knew what they were doing when they committed the crime or were in position of the stolen goods. Right, So it sort of like invokes like property law and also like criminal laws, so it's kind of a cool one. But thank you for joining us, Kira, thank you for coming and being a part of that. Oh, thank you for telling us more about your work, plug your socials. Where do you want everyone to follow?

00:36:33
Speaker 3: It's called the Art Revival and you can follow on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube, oh and Facebook.

00:36:39
Speaker 1: Give for a follow because she really does pump out of all these videos. It's really incredible, especially if you're like not going to art exhibitions that often, but you do love art. It's a great way to sort of like get to see what's happening in the art world while also not leaving your home.

00:36:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I learned so much and I feel like I'm like a lawyer now.

00:37:01
Speaker 1: Okay, but please don't practice without a license. That was so great. I love talking about just sort of like the provenance and art getting sort of like spread around the world, and like the stories that now you know, the grandchildren and the great grandchildren of sort of having to repatriate art back to the original owners. It's really interesting, super interesting.

00:37:22
Speaker 2: I loved having her on.

00:37:23
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foot.

00:37:26
Speaker 2: I'm Melissa Malbranch.

00:37:27
Speaker 1: Don't forget to submit a question for next week and we'll see you in court. This has been an Exactly Right production recorded at iHeart Studios, hosted by me, Michael Foot.

00:37:39
Speaker 2: And me Melissa Malbranch. Our producer is CJ. Ferroni.

00:37:42
Speaker 1: This episode was edited by Nicholas Galucci.

00:37:44
Speaker 2: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain and our guest booker is Patria Cottner.

00:37:49
Speaker 1: Our theme song was composed by Tom Bridfogel with artwork from Charlotte Delarue Manessa Lilac with photography by Brad Obono.

00:37:56
Speaker 2: Brief Recess is executive produced by Karen Kilgareff Georgia Hartstark. I'm Danielle Kramer.

00:38:01
Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foot and.

00:38:06
Speaker 2: I'm on both Instagram and TikTok as Melissa Malbranch.

00:38:09
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