E333- Why Forcing Your Dog to Like People Is a Mistake/How To Help a Dog That Panics in the Crate

[SPEAKER_00]: What's going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: No bad dog army.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a I think a really good podcast on a lot of different levels of like what do we do and dogs are Freaking out in the crate, but it's more than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what do we do when a dog is doing something that they shouldn't be doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like the first line of the fence.
[SPEAKER_00]: I go, okay, you know, this is one of those situations I'm looking at the the big picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking at the cause of the things, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a dog that's
[SPEAKER_00]: Biting his tail on the crate and being restless and trying to figure life out and what do we do?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the quick fix?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there is no quick fix.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to look at What's going on with the dog's mental state of mind?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's what's the schedule like?
[SPEAKER_00]: How much exercise?
[SPEAKER_00]: How much mental exercise?
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about the two different tanks of dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every dog has the two different tanks guys Like the mental tank the physical tank every dog wakes up with that just like we do are we exerting these things are we are we?
[SPEAKER_00]: You we have to know our dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to know what they need And so this is a good one and and I hope you guys enjoy this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's gonna be helpful for you guys And so enjoy this podcast and I'll talk to you next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey Maggie Hi Tom, how are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: How you doing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got my friend Katarina who's also my dog trainer with me just thinking oh cool nice to meet you guys
[SPEAKER_02]: to meet you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I was thinking I just kind of typed up with the really long synopsis.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it okay if I just read that to you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you so much Tom for meeting with us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, my friend Katarina is with us as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she owns her own dog training company, where she has classes and in home board and trade.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have been a fan of yours for five years and I love listening to your podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have learned so much
[SPEAKER_02]: I booked this consultation for my youngest pup, Luka.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will first give you a background on my other two huskies and then I will go through Luka's life.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have three peer-bred Siberian huskies that I got from the same accredited breeder.
[SPEAKER_02]: She breeds for temperament and her breeding lines have amazing temperament.
[SPEAKER_02]: My oldest timber is five.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ruby is three and Luka is one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ruby and Luka are confirmation dogs
[SPEAKER_02]: because to be a child dog, they have to be intact.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Timbers intact as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had one in Tishio Timbers, but I taught him to fit as a pup, and it was too hard to break him from that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Timber was my first dog ever.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got him right at eight weeks old, and he taught me a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: I socialized him as a pup to everything, took him everywhere, create, train him, took him to multiple classes, and did private lessons with Katarina last fall to introduce an e-caller.
[SPEAKER_02]: As around meal time, he would get anxious, which in the past has led to aggression.
[SPEAKER_02]: As actually, how I found you on YouTube, Timber has matured to be a pretty laid back adult and puts up with Ruby, boss, and Tim around.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got Ruby when she was a little bit older
[SPEAKER_02]: and began confirmation training with her at an early age.
[SPEAKER_02]: I socialized her a lot to have won some ribbons with her in doc shows.
[SPEAKER_02]: When she goes into heat, she is gone for a month.
[SPEAKER_02]: I plan on finishing her, I think it's the grand champion, whatever 15 points is this summer and getting an over-experienced day next winter.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ruby is a very loving and sweet girl.
[SPEAKER_02]: She is very bossy and she likes to have an invisible radius around her from the boys.
[SPEAKER_02]: If they break the invisible radius, she will snarle at them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feed all of my dogs a raw diet, 80% meet 10% bone 10% organ.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also work with a holistic vet yearly for a second opinions.
[SPEAKER_02]: A little bit about my training.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not feed my dogs' table scraps.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are not allowed on furniture.
[SPEAKER_02]: They are created when I leave when companies around they are on a place bed in a crate or free range if they are calm.
[SPEAKER_02]: and they are not allowed to jump on people.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not believe in dog parks, flexi lesions, harnesses, or leash greetings with other dogs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Timber and Ruby do not play with other dogs as they just are too much of a pack.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Luca only plays with other dogs at Catarina as being her personal dogs, because she's like obviously good at reading the body language of dogs and stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Timber, they can be around other dogs though, as long as they have space, so it's not like they're reactive at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: A little dog once got too close to Ruby, and she did not like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: She didn't hurt the dog, but I was able to pull her back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Their praetor, I've obviously for Huskies is very high.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ruby has killed multiple bunnies at home when I'm chilling.
[SPEAKER_02]: I usually have Luca on a place bed and Timber and Ruby are free range only having the kitchen blocked off.
[SPEAKER_02]: They all do really well together at home.
[SPEAKER_02]: They longed her own and can lay by each other often.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ruby, even Ruby, who has the radius.
[SPEAKER_02]: I used to do doggy daycare, but have been preferring having a dog walker come to my house daily instead when I work because I'm a special education teacher who takes them on individual walks.
[SPEAKER_02]: When they are being fed there in their crate or a gate is dividing them and I feed them
[SPEAKER_02]: So the main reason for the call is Luca, so this is a synopsis of his life.
[SPEAKER_02]: Luca was intended to be my dad's puppy and he was one of the more timid pups in the letter.
[SPEAKER_02]: We carefully picked one that would get a lot of well temperament-wise with my other two dogs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Luca came home at eight weeks old and began going to two times a week to a puppy socialization program immediately where he was exposed to items, textures, sounds, and people.
[SPEAKER_02]: My dad worked weekends, so Lucas stayed with me and my other two Huskies, two nights a week, because we also wanted to make sure that they could all get along.
[SPEAKER_02]: Two months after getting him, we were told by the socialization place that he was not always listening to other dogs cues and signals while playing, and at times needed human correction, such redirection.
[SPEAKER_02]: We also noticed him being shy when approached by people,
[SPEAKER_02]: Luca began attending weekly day care training with her, where they worked on confidence building exposure, socialization, and an overall calm mindset.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a couple of sessions with Katarina, where we worked on exposure in a public place, greetings and discussed great trainings as Luca was having a tough time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Four months after coming home, Luca attended a puppy obedience class with Katarina and four other dogs, never interacting, knows to know
[SPEAKER_02]: where we worked on impulse control, leash manners down, place, object exposure, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_02]: Unfortunately, the last few sessions are when we realized my dad was early sick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to think of a recommendation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: My doctor come all my nice dad was diagnosed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was diagnosed with interoperable, unenoperable aggressive terminal brain cancer.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had a GLILE glass dome on him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was right after that, you know, not himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: The tumors were a frontal lobe tumors, so when she shares that information, like she just wants to recognize that her dad wasn't a real him for a while.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very loving and kind.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, but it's something that where she was like, he was off for a while and you know, he may have forgotten to feed him to her or wasn't being consistent with him training, he would just forget those things because of the brain cancer.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Maggie worked with him and talked with him, you know, every day she bring over the raw food and portion that and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she kind of knew a lot of what was happening, but she wasn't always with Luca and her dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm so glad you had to look at Alphold time after his the cancer diagnosis with her dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Luke had come with me for a few weeks just to give everyone a break and have a little bit more you know stability in the house and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maggie was a caregiver for her dad, you know, he sometimes forgot about the dogs or had no interest in them or moved in with me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You moved in.
[SPEAKER_01]: with Maggie and so all the dogs and family were here.
[SPEAKER_01]: He became kind of an angry person.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was often tension in the house due to the tumors.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we just bring that up because we do believe that is potential contribution to where the dogs are at and Lucas Progress and his growing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: After her dad moving in, leaving Luca and his great alone was always really bad, even just for like an hour.
[SPEAKER_01]: They would come home and he was peeing, pooping, pacing, couldn't settle, barking, howling mining.
[SPEAKER_01]: He did that company for a free week for entrain.
[SPEAKER_01]: We.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before that, though, we did some work at our house.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I came over for a few lessons and started him on the E-Colour for Luka, working on his great manners, having an open door, having them lie down in there, be calm in there, leaving a house and being outside of Washington, on a camera, things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We would, if you broke his down in the crate, we would use the E-Colour, we use the many educator from E-Colour technologies.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then through that, we could still continue to have accidents and pace, then we did that's really bored and train.
[SPEAKER_01]: We moved in from the mini educator to the boss still 30 color tech and What ended up happening is we did end up putting him in a smaller rough one great like it's pretty small like you can't
[SPEAKER_01]: stand up in it, basically, which sounds kind of bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you can turn around.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can get in there and turn around.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that has deterred him from potty and in the crates, however, he's still kind of, that's howling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Howling, and, you know, now he's trying to find things that you want in there and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maggie's father did pass early October.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then after the funeral for her dad who could come back home to her,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, they began rebuilding a routine and getting, you know, used to each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, she has Luca on a place bed when they're showing in a living room.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can't see all three of her or she's, you know, running a two different part of the house.
[SPEAKER_01]: She briefly puts Luca in a crate to work with a gate to kind of block him from timber and Ruby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Luca began going through kind of a fear period where he's been.
[SPEAKER_01]: scared to say hi to people in public in a little bit more timid of noises, we've been continuing to do exposure with that and getting them out more, you know, saying no, people coming up to his space and just letting him kind of get used to the space and exposure and sounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maggie had the dogs out playing such one day in temper, got to Ciluca and Luca went after Timber.
[SPEAKER_01]: She killed a mouth of Timber and they haven't played balls, played
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, she did try to get and would a stem if he was, you know, I only I and are growling at timber over the ball and then three weeks after coming home and getting in a new routine, um, the dogs got in a scrap, which I think full responsibility for, um, I was getting treats out of the fridge, which is something I had done in the past.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I wanted them to work on taking treats together.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was grabbing the treats, so I could take them outside, and then want to call them in, I would give them one just because Ruby has not an e-coloring yet, and she needs motivation to come inside at times.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I didn't really see exactly what happened, but Luca and Timber started to get in a fight.
[SPEAKER_02]: I pulled Luka off of timber and timber continued to snarle and he was in like a feral phase.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like talking to him and he was able to calm down.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I put him in an area and I put a nearby gate to keep him away.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I thought right away I should take away the source of the problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just as I went to do that, Luka, I didn't see what happened, but I believe Luka went after Ruby.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and again, I was able to get him off of her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately, he did by Ruby where she needed to get stitches.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, six weeks after coming home, Luca got his e-polar strap and is ruffling crate just because we kept it on a whole thing that you have that mindset of like, wow at any point.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could get stemmed if I'm having to fit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and they wouldn't catch on anything, so ruffling crates.
[SPEAKER_02]: or have anything for a touch on, but he somehow got his collar and shoot part of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thankfully, we were able to have him vomit it up.
[SPEAKER_02]: He also did shoe off part of his tail.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then at this point, I just was like, I think it would be really good to contact on.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in summary, I've also started to give him like a stimulating toy before I leave for work, so he has to work for some treats alone.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in summary, Luca is a more timid dog who is not like being alone, created or not.
[SPEAKER_02]: He has been my female dogs and at times pushes my male to his breaking point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Luca had a very difficult upbringing his first year due to my father's illness and me caregiving and now I am trying to create consistent routines for him with clear expectations.
[SPEAKER_02]: After listening to your podcast, I believe that Luca did not know who his leader was before.
[SPEAKER_02]: and during my dad's illness, that's he tried to be the leader and was very insecure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe now he is trying to accept that I'm the leader and find his place in our pack.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he may be in a fight or flight when it comes to the resource carding and I wonder if this could be from inconsistent sees with my father who was sick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the big concern right now is it seems like with Luka and it seems like Luka has gotten in with it with both timber and rubies as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not it's not really super consistent about who were going after and when.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what is your.
[SPEAKER_00]: hear something.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is your question here?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is what can I help you with?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what I'm just curious like what your thoughts are like with a creative especially because these skills really startling with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I guess that home like what should I be doing to help create a better environment or like what training why as we should be working on with Luca.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think from what I've heard, I think that we have to, I think you're doing all the right things as far as structure goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know in the crate, I heard a couple of different things of him spinning and getting anxious and chewing on his tail and blah, blah, blah, blah, just being kind of a menace in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'll about that in a minute.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other things are, is like, you guys already know that there's some sort of resource
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think that that's really covered.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know that if you bring in something that is high value, such as, like you were saying the food, the potential toys and things like that, that there could be issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's an easy thing to just delete, like we don't, we don't do any of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's all just I mean, that's just that's an easy thing that you guys can work out like hey, this is this is what we need to do We can't you know, we can't have these things around because then the dogs are going to have a potential Reaction so it's important that you
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, moving forward or mindful of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's again, that's not really, I know that you said with Ruby that the reason why you had treats that one time is because she's she's not on the e-collar yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she still needs that food motivation.
[SPEAKER_00]: But those are things that you can still avoid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna get the other dogs in because they listen and then Ruby.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can like so so all of that stuff is all human Stuff that's all like just errors that you guys can work out It's for but but I would just say my advice on On that is keep I mean to sounds like you're doing all the right things I would just be mindful when you have the three they're all intact, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah so when you have three animals that are intact living with each other it could get you know pretty tense at some at some points right so I just think like doing what you're already doing from what you've told me is the kind of the crate and the and the routines and the exercise and the walks and all that stuff sounds good in the e-colour training.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't really have anything on that just because like you said you already know like hey, I knew that this was gonna be a problem and I did it and it was a problem So I don't you know, I don't you don't need anything from me on that As far as the crate stuff goes I would say so Right now when you put Luca in the crate what's the How long is Luca in the crate and what is Luca doing right now when we get into the crate?
[SPEAKER_02]: So
[SPEAKER_02]: When I leave for work, I usually will take him outside through the ball around just me and him one on one and then bring him inside give him like a stimulating food toy to play with while I get dressed and ready.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then whatever food he doesn't get from it, I'll take out and then I will tell him to create and I'll toss it in the crate once he gets in his down.
[SPEAKER_02]: and then I leave for work at about like between 7.30, 7.45 and then the dog walker comes usually between 11.30 and new.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: That all sounds good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you don't have any issues there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he does like I'll just peek at the camera after I leave and he'll be how a leader pacing around.
[SPEAKER_02]: But sometimes I check and he's just laying down and howling.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then after the dog walker, I'm usually home by like four or 15-ish usually every day.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he does go to catering and still twice a week.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he's really only in his
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what what issues are you having in the crate right now?
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like you've you've kind of grinded out all the all the issues you put them in the crate.
[SPEAKER_00]: He house for a little bit then he's fine and everything's good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of it'll be hit or miss because I'll check out different times and he'll be moving around, scratching,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's just kind of like stuff like that and like I'll go on the camera and I'll tell them no and I'll tell them down and sometimes you will lay down and then just how well.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, just the like you just can never seem to settle in the crate.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just strange for my other two dogs love their crate and I don't know if it's because of his age or just with everything that happened or I guess I'm just I'm not really sure like what more I can do to make his crate a place he wants to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and sometimes yeah I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you have to be fair and realistic because sometimes there isn't like sometimes when you put it when you put a dog into the crate, you know, they would want to be elsewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like, you know, putting a kid in time out.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like, I don't want to be here.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, I know, but you got to or, you know, bring it to bring it to kid to kindergarten for the first time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I know, but you got to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you have to also just be realistic with yourself too to say like, okay, I'm going to put this dog in the crate because I have to go to work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody's going to be over in a little bit and then I'm going to be home.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so things that you can do, I mean, let's let's put it into perspective like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You put them into the crate and he starts the chases tails and chew on his tail.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, what what can you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if he is so anxious that
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I just say anxious as like a cheap shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, you know, I would just assume it's it's anxiety of like, hey, I want to do, I want to do something else and now I'm just stuck here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So so we kind of like, okay, I'm in this crate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have nothing to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just showing my tail.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So so you have to look at like a, okay, what can we do?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we can't leave him outside of the crate.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not an option.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's that gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have to put him in the crate.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then you have to look at like, okay, we put him in the crate because we have to.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no alternative.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he starts to chew on his tail.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: there's there's certain things that you can do but a lot of the tail chewing is a very like I want to say an involuntary behavior so it's something that it's something that the dog will just do because he's bored right or he's anxious or he's whatever and so
[SPEAKER_00]: Things that you can do is, you know, potentially, like you said, you know, if you have a camera, you could, you could tell them to leave it, but that's like really not realistic, especially when you're trying to work and do things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't want you to have to check the camera every two seconds.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that doesn't, you know, that doesn't make much sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so then you have to look at like, okay, he's going to chew his tail.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not home.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I can't really look at the camera the whole time to tell him to knock it off.
[SPEAKER_00]: So things that you can do to potentially desensitize these things is, and I don't know if you're doing this already, but it sounds like you're feeding them all separate obviously, but it's pretty enough into the crate more often while you're home.
[SPEAKER_00]: The could could help desensitize it, but I think at the end of the day, you put him into the crate.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't want to go in the crate.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's bored.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gone Every minute that he's in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, okay, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it could be like you said he's a young dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it could it could definitely start to get better over time as he matures.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you could desensitize the potential chewing on the tail, but like I said, I want to say it's like a place of involuntary behavior a little bit where it's not like if you teach a dog a heel or if you teach a dog to recall these are things that you can practice time and time again and then they get rewarded for it this is something that only happens when you're not there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also repeat the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you wanted to work on heal, you can go outside and your dog's going to pull you and you can work on it for an hour, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time, you can get that behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem with the tail chewing is it only happens under certain circumstances that you really can't predict.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that makes it difficult to work on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so if you put them into, so if you said, hey, I need to work on this whole tail thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, all right, just let's recreate it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, we can't really recreate it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, well, that's very difficult to work on something.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, if you could, you know, put them into the crate while you're home, you could use the e-coloured, a correct, and when you choose, but again, because it's kind of an involuntary hey, I'm kind of bored.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know what else to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to be super sustainable because you're not involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: right so you know it's like somebody it's like breaking a habit and it's it's very very difficult to break that particular habit so you know suggestions are exhaust him more so you know what I mean those are things I would be doing like if if one of my personal dogs was having a really hard time in a crate I would be exhausting the dog more I mean that's
[SPEAKER_00]: If a dog comes in and they're just whiny and barky and just losing their minds, we do higher amounts of treadmill sessions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead of 15 minutes, they're on there for 45 minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and we kind of like take the data and we say, okay, that works.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're 10, 10 times less whiny now, because we've gotten that out of the system, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm giving you options that are things that you can do, but something like this oftentimes is something that you can't really control because again, it's a very involuntary thing that is inconsistent when you're not around.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do you fix something without you being there?
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, the dog is doing it out of an instinct type thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm bored.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I'm going to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So unless you fix the boredom,
[SPEAKER_00]: right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you can't really grind it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't really modify it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's the dog is because here's what could happen is he gets so worked up, you correct him for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, let's say you leave him in the house, you go outside, your e-colors on, you go into the hallway or however your home is set up outside, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you correct him for chewing.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, oh, that sucked.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: He stops for 15-20 minutes And then he goes back to it because he's like, yep, I'm still bored.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the thing The problem doesn't get fixed and resolved, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when we're teaching a dog how to heal for an example They're like, I'm gonna be in front of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You correct him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Say no.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna stay here And then you're gonna get paid and the dog's like, oh, okay, this makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's utility here
[SPEAKER_00]: But when you have a dog that's doing kind of an involuntary thing, and you can't really reward the dog, and the dog is doing it out of complete involuntary Symptoms Like the, is that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that would be like my, my just thoughts on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you've done a lot of different stuff, but, you know, alternatively, it would, like again, it would be auditing how much, how much is going into the mental exhaustion.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I know that you said that you, and I don't know how much he's getting in particular before you leave.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, if you have three dogs, and one of them is really struggling and tense and got a lot going on in the head, and you are saying, hey, this dog is struggling when I'm gone, then that's like the effort would go into that particular dog the most.
[SPEAKER_00]: that's where I would put a lot of that effort to say like this dog is struggling.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to, you know, we really need to put more effort into exhausting this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then also, you know, potentially it just depends.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's a there's a couple of different options, but I think the other option would be changing up your dog walker schedule.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have the ability, because again, it would be
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say, okay, hey, I'm going to work at 730, all the dogs have been out walked fed whatever, and then by 10 a.m. 930 a.m. Lucas starts going to his tail or Lucas starts howling or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then you might want to say, okay, I have to go to work this dog at this age, at this point in his life is having a tough time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I get the dog walker to come early or can I get the dog walker to come twice or can I get the dog walker to stay longer like these are all options?
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be auditing on your end.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Luke Lucas having a tough time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I pay you an extra?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, whatever it is to stay in extra 30 minutes to do treadmill or to do fetch or to do Whatever, but the dog needs more than what he's he's telling you the dog needs more than what he's getting like he is There is like again humans were anxious.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like okay If you're anxious, you know, yeah, you know, there's probably things that you need to think about But also how much exercise are you getting like if you're waking up every day or every day at two o'clock You get super anxious.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: How much exercise are you getting?
[SPEAKER_00]: These are things that you have to audit and I think with dogs Like he's telling you like when I used to when I used to be an animal dog control officer when dogs would run away or Dig under the fence and jump over the fence and blah, blah, blah I'd have to bring him back and people were always like oh, I don't know how he got out I'm like that's your missing the point your your dog is telling you your dog is desperately saying I need more than what I'm getting this fence is bullshit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I Need I want to see the world right if the dog is fulfilled
[SPEAKER_00]: the dog won't do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when dogs start to chew on themselves, it's typically like a, again, it's not a destructive, I'm going to tear up the crate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to, you know, bark and I'm going to grow and I'm going to do all these things out of like spite or aggression or frustration.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like dogs who are chewing on themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: in a way that is actually causing harm outside of obviously skin issues like hotspots and allergies and you know things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they're doing it, the dog is clearly telling you like, I am so pent up that I am going to self harm myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm taking the energy that is needed to be exerted and I'm gonna put it into myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm willing to hurt myself and I don't know the I don't know the full details and contacts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's probably aine or it's just a little bit or what.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, well, the fur off around the part of his tail.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just, you have to weigh your options here.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, again, it's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog is, so I would just, you know, trial a couple things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, for me personally, I would be putting more effort and energy into the exhaustion of that dog's mental capacity if you can, I mean, get creative, waking up earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: You would have heard just, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: again waking up earlier telling your dog walker come twice telling your dog walker just a later whatever it takes and then you just have to trial like oh okay that worked he's not cheering on his tail okay then you then you got you then you have something you know so you have to just kind of trial these things because some dogs are habitual where
[SPEAKER_00]: It is, it is, it could be possible that no matter what you do, the dog's just going to have that tick, and that's what's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the first line of defense, again, if somebody says, hey, I'm kind of anxious and depressed and don't feel good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, all right, let's work out, let's eat clean.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are two things that, you know, everybody's like, oh, man, I feel better, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, you know, it's just, it's basic.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the most, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the most basic.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's where I would start is the dog is obviously saying like, hey, I have some pent up energies, and pent up mental stimulation I- I'm not eating.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are things I would start with.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, sounds good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What else?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like I said, I think,
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the issues that you guys have had with the dogs having like resource Guardian and and hey, that's mine not yours.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean that's yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like I said I think you guys have already said and stated like those were our faults.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do again.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how else?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The other big thing is Lucas very like timid.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like so we've been taking him on the other day.
[SPEAKER_02]: We took him to a local little area, like a little local, local, local mall.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they had Santa there because he's kind of timid and shy around kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we just have him there.
[SPEAKER_02]: We had him in a down and we would correct him if he broke his down just so he was exposed to everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess like with that nervous and the thing is, it's like people will walk by and he'll sniff them like it seems like he wants to greet them.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just not sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess I'm curious what your thoughts are on that like how I can be encouraging him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, to be open to greeting people, which like I know it's his choice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm obviously not going to force him, but I mean, I want to point he was doing that fine and then everything happened with my dad.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then now he's regressed to where he's nervous around strangers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, define greeting like, what do you want him to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess like I would never force him but like if you could go up and like just people or like what I'm petting him or like because he's a very social dog and like it seems like he wants to you know, but I don't know Why would say this if you I think if you wanted to be wood Okay, you know what I mean like yeah, I think if an animal wants to do something
[SPEAKER_00]: they would.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've just found that to be true so many times where we have a group of people over, we have a group of people around, right the mall, we're downtown, we're walking, whatever, there's people around.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in your head, you might see your dog look at somebody, wag their tail, look at somebody, sniff, look at somebody.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they are in a free, like, do what you want, you know, you're not in a sit stay or anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they wanted to go
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think what you're saying is is you're taking this to your own emotion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're saying I think that he has the potential to meet new people and I want him to potentially meet new people, but what he's actually saying and doing is the opposite, where he's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like so for me as somebody who works with behavior pretty much specifically, especially with like reactive and aggressive dogs and whatever, you know my goal is always neutrality.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think a neutral situation is a win, it's the best situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you get a dog that really just loves seeing people, you just kind of hit the jackpot of genetics, you're like okay this is great, this is a bonus, this is kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: So just because you're dog, I mean for me if I had a dog that's a little bit nervous and skeptical and maybe not so outgoing like some of your other dogs or your past dogs or some dogs that you see on the internet like don't don't try to force the and I know that you're not I'm just saying like I don't want you I don't want you to be too hard on yourself where you think something's wrong
[SPEAKER_00]: just because he doesn't go and engage in people that he's looking at right if he's looking at somebody and he doesn't go up and go belly up and say hey pet me that doesn't mean that he's not being social and it doesn't mean that there's something wrong with him and it doesn't mean that he's insecure anything it just means that
[SPEAKER_00]: he'd rather not, you know, engage into these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, there's a difference between a dog like trying to run away and scraping to get away.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's different.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you go into a situation and you have kids around from a training standpoint, a behavioral standpoint,
[SPEAKER_00]: If there's kids around or kids and kids are, you know, potentially a trigger for him or make him a little nervous, and he's staying there and looking and sniffing, but not going up to them, that's way safer and way more important to me as a dog owner and as a trainer than the dog going to engage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because once the dog goes to engage,
[SPEAKER_00]: That's when you get nervous, which then the dog gets nervous.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then your risk overreward goes way off the chart.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now your risk of something bad happening is like 98%.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the reward is like two points, versus almost a hundred points of risk.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know, for to go out and to be around these things and have a good experience,
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, we're not reacting, we're not growling, we're not barking, we're not running away, we're not peeing on ourselves, the dog's just being.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the best thing that you could ask for.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because because then once you start to say, hey, Luca, I know that you're friendly because you're friendly with me and I know that you're friendly because you're friendly with these other people and I'd love for you to go and kiss these kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where you have to draw the line and go, that's a risk that I don't think anybody should be taking because there's zero return, there's there's no point in that like your dog going to engage and to random people that they'll never see again just so you can feel like okay my dog is friendly like there's no point in that like it all so I would just be saying that your goal should be go out
[SPEAKER_00]: be around these situations, but don't expect your dog to engage at a very physical level because and again, from a genetic standpoint, that's just like sugar on top.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you can get a dog that goes out and ignores everybody,
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gold.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you are you have everything that you need to be successful God bless like that's I mean, that's all anybody really wants is like I just want to go live my life with my dog And and if they don't care about stuff that's even better because now I don't have to worry about them going to want to see people or reacting or getting nervous like they just could care less They have neutrality.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll go with the flow perfect so But again like it is nice
[SPEAKER_00]: It is endearing to us humans to see our dogs engage in due cutesy stuff, but that's a selfish thing from a human standpoint.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is typically predicated off of the personality of the dog in which we really don't have much control over.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think I just was thrown because my other two dogs will go up and they'll greet people and like they're open to that, but that is a good point that the goal is neutrality and just be able to be there, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just understand that every animal is so different.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, the, you know, it's like with kids, it's like, well, you know, Timmy likes basketball.
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, Johnny must like basketball.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, no, oh, no, that's not, that's not how that works.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's every dog is independently doing different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're,
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if they come from the same breeding pedigrees like we can have an expectation of what they should be doing But just because they're not doing what we want them to do or what we think they should be doing outside of if you're training a therapy dog or you're training a service dog, which you're not
[SPEAKER_00]: Like don't have these, you know, unrealistic expectations because that's where you're going to beat yourself up over something and I'm like, you should not, like again, if I go out with a dog, you know, I'll let my my my my master will be with me and then my shepherd she can go out and do the kids and do the cutesy stuff and that's fine because she's not 150 pounds and
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have a risk if I're knocking somebody over or anything like that, but I'm not coming back on my man I wish Burley was more like Lakota and it's like they're completely like David and like they're just so separate that yeah, so don't I wouldn't as long as the dog isn't doing like so where you should get concerned I guess I should say because I want you to have like validity here moving through these situations
[SPEAKER_00]: The only time you should get concerned that I would say, okay, that's an issue is, again, the dog is scraping to get the hell out of their pee and pooping on themselves, reacting, snorling, growling, like I hate this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if your dog goes to a situation and there's all these kids and people around and they're like, yeah, this is cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to hang out
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that is the best case scenario because I like I said that sugar on top of the dog also being like yeah, come over and say how do you like those are just we just get lucky with that stuff sometimes but it's not it shouldn't be something that we have on paper of like if this isn't happening then something's wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good way to look at it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think part of it, too, is that just one, like, I just kind of beat myself up because, like, with everything with my dad, it's like, bulldozed to be missing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The scary theater between us and everything we're supposed to do, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, no, I totally get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I totally get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just want to say from an objective opinion as a dog owner and a professional, like, if you go out and your dog doesn't want to engage in everybody, that doesn't mean something's wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just means that your dog's personality
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look how many people that we know in our lives, like you can use it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, my friend would totally do that, or no, my friend's too shy, they wouldn't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't mean like, hey, what's wrong with you?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, they don't, they're just not that thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they're not that person.
[SPEAKER_00]: So dogs are the same way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's interesting because it's like when we are out because like taken to a coffee shop, he's like constantly like watching and looking in his it's like his had them like a little swivel, you know, interesting taking it all and he's very aware of his surroundings.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's all you can ask for.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, hey, animal, um, check out what's around you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if there's rabbit poop, I'll go run up to that and me interested.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if there's little kids, you know, if there's little kids or there's people I don't know, I'm cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't I don't need to go say hi.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's nothing wrong with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, you know, if you were raising a therapy dog or a service dog to do a specific task, where you're like, oh, I'm training a or I bread a service dog, just before stop and when I go to them all, they shut down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's an issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm training a service dog and when somebody walks by with the hat, they react, that's an issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're not, first of all, you're not getting those reactions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And second of all, you're not raising a dog that needs to have these, this, this, this bulletproof personality.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your dog goes out.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could care less about kids and care less and you're like, well, the other dogs go like, that's, that's so human of us to think that something's wrong in that case when it's like, no, if your dog wanted to go say hi, your dog would go say hi, period.
[SPEAKER_02]: I usually tell people, like, if you want to, he'll come up to you because they ask if they can pet him and I'll say, well, it's up to him, um, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Usually, as soon as that's fine, people might be better on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would just say, yeah, don't beat yourself over that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's to, you know, it's, you know, and you'll have, you know, future dogs in the in the future that'll even be completely different as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you just have to, you know, you can't force something, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like it's just like parenting like with kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like I would never want to put in a situation where then if you would start all
[SPEAKER_02]: and then he would snap or lunge and then, you know what I mean, I've watched a lot of your videos which are awesome where the dogs do that, you know, and then you're able to work through that, which is really neat.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I know I never want it to get to that point with my dogs, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the big difference is like, you know, again, when somebody comes in and their dog is biting people for fun, that's something we need to work on, you know, but when a dog goes out and decides not to go engage into strangers, they don't know, that's not an issue.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good way to look at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a beer.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a big, big difference for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't think of anything else.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I think we call it the main.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and the big things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you guys are doing all the right things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just using utilizing those e-colors because obviously you're off-leash, you can touch them with different places, which is a game changer, but as far as the first line of the fence for the great stuff is,
[SPEAKER_00]: De-sensitizing it more often, you know, while you're there, so don't make it just a hey when I'm gone You're in here thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say hey, you're just gonna you're gonna be in here randomly, and then also The the lowest hanging fruit for you is is is the The stimulation and the and the the output of the energy
[SPEAKER_00]: So those are things to really start.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean in just kind of like monitor, you seem like a very organized person So No, yeah, I could tell like you know you got all your ducks in a row.
[SPEAKER_00]: You take your notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So take your notes each day to say hey
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to run Luca in additional acts or whatever or train, you know, and in the train like I would be doing like 15 minutes of training extra and then you know, depends on much time you have 15 minutes of physical.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so if that means getting a doggy treadmill or you're running yourself or doing fetch out in the yard or something extra Just with Luca, because Luca's having the hardest time and then doing 15 minutes of like stimulation training, which would be thresholds So you know putting the dog in a sit putting the dog in a stay throwing their ball throwing their treats throwing their things on the ground
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all that stuff, like really getting, so when, when I tell people to work their dog, all that means is test your dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when you work, when you want to work your dog mentally, that just means test your dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that way they're not going through this mundane, same things, you know, the dogs are animals, so they're not, they need to see new stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: They need to be challenged, they need to be tested in order to think on a different wavelength.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, in order for your dog to actually think and be challenged, you need to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you need to, like don't, like again, the physical is good for sure, but the other half of that is the challenges.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the, and throw the treats on the groundwork on your leave it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Throw a ball, work on your stay.
[SPEAKER_00]: do thresholds at the door, but don't just do it once, do it three times each.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, do a threshold at the crate, like, really make your dog think.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the more you make your dog think, the more the more exhausted they are, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just like, they have two dogs, they have two tanks, they have physical tank and a mental tank.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if in the morning, they're going out, going pee and poop and they're running for five minutes and you're putting them in the crate for six hours.
[SPEAKER_00]: Their tank is still full and that's why when you leave they go, hey, I got this full tank It's about to go over.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just gonna exert it on myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna chew on myself I'm gonna do something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna dig.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna bark.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna scrape.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna scratch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna spin like that's what I dogs do all that stuff is cuz they nobody outlet it
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is just something I've learned just as a human like we deal with this all the time like if I and I'm not like a huge health like workout freak.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just know if I go for a nice steady easy two mile run and I do some weights and I push myself and I get a good sweat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am completely different human being than if I just didn't do that like if I was just like oh all this stuff in my head and all this energy in my body.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just kept it inside and I went to bed every night like I didn't exert it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a completely different human, and that's just my personal experiences, but I know dogs are the same way.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I throw a truck at with my shepherd, she comes back, her tail is saying, you know, her tail is down, her tongue is hanging out of her mouth, and she sleeps for like three hours, because she's like, oh man, that was a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: those walks are really important those those those play sessions are important that the brain games are important the training is important and that's the first thing I would do if your dog is having issues in the crate okay do you have any recommendations for a treadmill
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we use the dog pacer treadmill.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a bunch of them out there, but the dog pacer's just a brand that I'm familiar with.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not cheap, but we've had them for years.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've had them for years.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good investment.
[SPEAKER_00]: You may be able to find them cheaper on eBay and things, but it's just nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Once we have a dog, that is,
[SPEAKER_00]: acclimated to the treadmill literally are like the dogs who are treadmill conditioned if we let them off leash they'll run over and stand on the treadmill and just sit there and wait for you to turn it on.
[SPEAKER_00]: They love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know they absolutely love it because basically it's like I mean think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If a dog had something that can bring them on walks like if if you get the leash out like if you have a routine of like hit six a.m. we walk you could I mean I do it my dogs like I get the leash out poop bags out
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you turn on the treadmill and you're dog like, oh, that's my that's my walker, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They they love it and so it's a good investment and the good thing about the dog Pacer is they're not like super big.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're very narrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're made for dogs like they don't take up a ton of space And so if you can fit it in your life
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, even with the dog walker, like, hey, I'm going to, like, let's, like, for an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, um, from, from six to eight, you're getting up doing your thing, getting ready for work.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dog, you're doing, you know, getting their, their walker, whatever, getting breakfast, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you're like, oh, I'm just going to do an extra half an hour of Luca.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then even when the dog walker comes, like, hey,
[SPEAKER_00]: Before you leave, can you put Luca on a really fast pace on the dog pace or get four miles and before you leave?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that way he goes into the crate, he has fresh water, and he'll probably just collapse and be like, all right, I'm cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all those things are like natural things.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have an intact young dog that has a lot going on in his head and Probably just isn't getting enough and so if you know do you know do everything?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that you're committed to your dogs.
[SPEAKER_00]: You love your dogs You know if you can commit to something that can help Yeah, that would be I'd be really interested to see how that that works out for you
[SPEAKER_02]: for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you Tom.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm definitely going to look into that dog piece for treadmill.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that will be good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Check that out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Check that out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you make us in a soda sometimes that be really cool to have you around here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Minnesota.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're about to lose.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Ben, um, where have I been in Minnesota?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's maybe okay, thanks, please.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, is monomony in Minnesota?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know that was gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's Wisconsin, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it's my favorite of the border.
[SPEAKER_02]: Brand the border, maybe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's almost cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we're from Duluth, so it's a period you're just right across the bridge from us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Heck yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's really nice talking to you guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: And...
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I wish you guys the best of luck and sorry about your dad, I know that that's tough.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds like you're, you know, doing everything you can though.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you're taking charge and saying, hey, this is sucky, but, you know, life throws you stuff all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it really, you know, on my experience and my walks of life, I just find that what you do when shit hits the fan
[SPEAKER_00]: Things feel like this is kind of like character building right and I know it's like well I'd rather just not have this happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like yeah, of course, but you know I think I've seen so many people in my in my life and being a human and
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of just take really bad situations and just fall, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately, they fall into these holes and it takes so many pieces of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes they never recover and I think, you know, you're doing such a good job at
[SPEAKER_00]: Figuring out what you need to do and moving forward and I know, you know, just by talking to you that that's that's I'm Sure, that's what your dad would want you to do and I think that it takes a lot of guts and resilience To do what you're doing and just say, hey, you know, this is
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an unfortunate thing, but I got to push through this and I need help and Obviously you have a good a good system.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know the fact that your dog trainer is willing to Be by your side and help you through this is amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it sounds like you've got a really good you got a really good team And I wish I wish you the best of luck
[SPEAKER_00]: you're welcome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you guys have a Merry Christmas, and I appreciate you, you're welcome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, and thanks for hanging out with me and good luck.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, all right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cheers, bye.