Ken Rosenthal reacts to Rob Thomson firing news & reviews front offices of Red Sox, Mets, & Phillies

00:00:05
Speaker 1: Let's hit the inside Scoop with FT senior insider Ken Rosenthal joining us on foul Territory right now. Well, Ken, what do you think about all of the action today? Rob Thompson let go, and the conversations with Alex Korus sounded like they got a little bit heavy, but he declined, is that what happened?

00:00:22
Speaker 2: That is what happened. And I can't say I'm surprised that Rob Thompson was dismissed. I heard Eric saying that this has been talked about for two weeks, not necessarily by the Phillies, but by people like myself, and you could read the writing on the wall. Dave Dombrowski brought in three of his top advisors to Atlanta last weekend. They were in the clubhouse, they were asking questions, they were talking to people evaluating. You could see this coming, and they were incredibly disappointing, at least to start the season. There's a lot of season left, and Dave Dombrowski is and has been in his career, a man of action, so that part of it did not surprise me. It also did not surprise me that the Phillies went on this intense pursuit of Alex Cora. And we know the connection between Cora and Dombrowski. It goes to the twenty eighteen World Series champions in Boston. These two guys won a World Series together. That alone creates an incredible bond, and beyond that, Cora and Dombrowski are just close in general, so it almost seemed logical that this pursuit would happen. It didn't result in Korra taking the job, in part large part because he wanted to stay home with his family this summer in Puerto Rico, and also because he knew, according to a person who spoken to him, that the Phillies would not be getting the best version of him if he jumped right back in after getting fired less than a week ago by the Red Sox. So it didn't work out for now. But Don Manningly is an interim chol He is not expected to be the long term choice of the Philadelphia Phillies, so from that perspective, this can all rear its head again at the end of the season once, of course, the Phillies want to hire a more permanent manager. Now there are other teams, of course that might want a manager. Then, as well, so there could be competition for Alex Korra, even as he remains under contract to the Boston Red Sox.

00:02:27
Speaker 3: Ken, why would I Ox scorer want to jump from a last place team to a last place team. I mean, I know it's in the middle of it. Two days after getting let go, I agree with what you just said. That's my biggest thing. Wait till the offseason. Other opportunities might open up and he'll have the opportunity to maybe pick and choose where he wants to go instead of going from Boston, which is as we know, has n't been great, to Philly, which really has n't been great within two days not knowing anything. Yes, I know he loves Dave Dombrowski. I think he made the right call. I would have waited too if I was him.

00:02:56
Speaker 2: I'm with you, AJ, And to me, it always seemed like a stretch which it would not have been unprecedented in baseball history. There have been a couple of examples of this. Bob Lemon in nineteen seventy eight going from the White Sox to the Yankees, and then Buck Rogers I believe in ninety one did something along the same lines. But think about how this would play out. Alex Corra is managing the Boston Red Sox on Friday, actually on Saturday, and then he would walk into the Phillies Clubhouse, let's say tomorrow, and that would be incredibly jarring to everyone involved, to the players, to Cora, and it just was a hard thing in my mind to pull off. It's a hard thing to do in the middle of a season, end of a season. Different story. But if this had happened and you asked me, why would he do that? The reason to do it would be to go work for a guy that he is so close with, Dave Dombrowski. That's the only reason he would maybe even consider it. And again it came down to family reasons and him simply not being ready right now.

00:04:02
Speaker 4: The argument for me is, you know, people expect this massive change from your interaction with Don Mattingly and your interaction with Rob Thompson. What is the what is the change that you would expect because from Joe Girardi to Topper it was so heavy handed to more of a relaxed attitude. So what's the difference is that you can expect from seeing Don Mattingley in there.

00:04:26
Speaker 2: It's a good question, Eric, And there's much less of a difference between Rob Thompson and Don Mattingly than there was between Girardi and Thompson. Now, what are the Phillies doing here? They're doing what teams always do when they fire the manager mid season, early in the season. As the Phillies are doing here, and as the Red Sox just did, they're looking for whatever you want to call, whatever catchphrase you want to use, new energy, a different direction, go on and on and on, and that's all that's going on here. And clearly the Phillies believe that they're better than this. They are better than this. We should all expect them to play better under Manningly than they did under Thompson. But that probably would have happened under Thompson anyway. And what happened here was the writing was on the wall. And at that point, to me, when everyone is talking about a change, then you got to make the change. And the Mets are kind of in a similar position. I understand that with Carlos Mendoza, but David Stearns handpicked Carlos Mendoza, as Dombrowski did, of course with with Rob Thompson. But it is a little bit different, and Stearns has never fired a manager in season, and he obviously is reluctant to do that. Maybe the Mets just start playing better because they're better than this, although I don't know how much better. And it works out that way, we'll see. But this is clearly a choice simply to change the guy who's running the ship.

00:05:55
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00:05:59
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00:06:00
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00:06:56
Speaker 3: Ken, No, I can't talk about managers getting fired and charge is because I hate it because I know these guys. You know these guys, You get to talk to them all the time, and it just stinks when someone loses their job. But we keep bringing up Alex Cora, and you wrote an article the other day about John Henry and everyone's talking about this. How come John Henry never gets in front of a microphone and speaks. How come John Henry don't doesn't let the players ask questions? How come Sam Kennedy doesn't let the players ask questions. How come Craig Breslow doesn't let the players ask questions. They just do these things and then it's like, oh, we're done, now, we're moving on, we'll see you later out of here.

00:07:31
Speaker 2: Well, those are questions, obviously, AJ for John Henry.

00:07:34
Speaker 3: But I'll call him not, let me call him real quick, Ken, me, let me just let me just what my feeling on that is.

00:07:39
Speaker 2: And I spoke about this on Fair Territory yesterday. John Henry and Craig Breslow both lack feel. And what I mean by feel is a sense of what it is like in a major league clubhouse, what players are feeling, what players want to hear, what they want to offer as input. Now might say, Craig Breslo, how can he lack feel? He was a left handed reliever in the game for quite a while. I don't know the answer to that, but it certainly comes off that way with some of the interactions that he's had. You go back to the devors thing that was mishandled. You go back to the other day when yes, they did not allow the players to speak in that meeting. Breslol later said that he talked to them individually. Okay, but they wanted to vent. They should have been allowed to vent. And yes, I know their employees, and Breslo is the employer, and so is John Henry and Sam Kennedy. But at the same time, if you have feel, you understand the dynamics, and you understand that guys want to have their say, and you let them have your say. There say you've done what you've done anyway, it's not going to change anything, but at least you have an open line of communication. Now, Breslow said he later opened that line. Okay, but at that time you saw Trevor Story's quotes, and Trevor's story again is one of the more mild battered guys the game. He is not a fiery clubhouse lawyer. He's anything but that. And he was ticked off and he spoke for a lot of the players.

00:09:11
Speaker 4: One of the things that was said yesterday after the firing was baseball operations in Boston has not been a great place to work, and people felt like maybe Craig Breslo was getting ahead of the fact that it could have been his job. So instead of his job, it's it, or instead of my job, it's his job. Is there a case where an organization that has four rings under that ownership would ever make a change because they've had success? Ownership says, well, if winning is success, we've won.

00:09:45
Speaker 2: Where would the change that you're talking about being the ownership ranks Eric.

00:09:49
Speaker 4: In the ownership the way the ownership is running their things in more of a lording over everybody, like people are upset about how they're lording over everybody, and they fired GMS, they fired, they fired you know, everybody that's been there. It's like a small window that you get a chance to win.

00:10:07
Speaker 2: Well fil left, of course, right, Sorry, But at the same time, your point is well taken. And I wrote about this the other day. They run through people like few other organizations. And what was my first sentence the other day. Craig Breslo is next. And what I meant by that is his expiration date is going to come with this ownership group, because ultimately they're looking for a scapegoat. They're looking for someone to blame. And when this team does not do what they anticipate, guess who's going to be under scrutiny then, And it's Breslo. Now to answer your question, is this why he took the action that he did? And remember it was not just Cora, it was six coaches, six and that is incredibly unusual for this time of year, or let alone any point in the season to fire that many coaches along with the manager. Yes, I'm sure, because he feels he has to produce here and this is what he thinks is going to work, bringing in these new coaches, doing it this new way having Chad Tracy be the interim manager. We'll see. But I'll say this, if it doesn't work, and I would say the odds of it not working are better than the odds of it working, then who gets under fire at that point it's Craig Breslo.

00:11:25
Speaker 1: So I think this is a good way to cap the conversation and to bring the Mets into this conversation. There aren't many options when you're in late April and your team doesn't look the way you want it to look. We went over this in the last segment. Ken you can't trade much this early in the season. You can't do much with a roster. Generally, you're not going to let go of the front office and cause that whole upheaval. It's a hitting coach or a manager. So you covered the Red Sox side if they don't make the playoffs. Brezlo's gone on the Mets in the Phillies. Do you see the same thing occurring here? The Mets continue down a spiral here over the next few days, I'm assuming we're going to see a manager change. They don't really have anywhere else to go. But for both teams, the Mets and the Phillies. If one of them misses the playoffs this year, do we then look at a front office change.

00:12:11
Speaker 2: David Stearns and especially Dave Dombrowski are much more established than Craig Breslow, and they work for owners who, in my view, are not as reactionary as Craig Breslow. I mean, I'm sorry, as John Henry so Steve Cohen might ultimately become that way, but he hasn't been. John Middleton really is committed to Dave Dombrowski in a big way. So I know what you're saying there, and you're right. The pure dynamic is somewhat similar, but the overall dynamic in each case is different. And Stearns, certainly, if this team flops and this makeover that he orchestrated during the off season is a failure, then yes, I would imagine he's under fire. Cohen considers a change. Dobrawski I don't see that happening too. But with both of these situations, actually all three, they're all different, and it just kind of remains to be seen. The Red Sox have a history. They've done it three times now. The three predecessors to Breslo of not giving a guy more than four years. Breslo's in his third year, so that is logically something you can see and say, Okay, he's in the middle of it right now. He needs to produce. Sterns has a longer deal. Debrowski is a longer deal. I don't know that they're under quite the same pressure. If the Mets do flop, the noise is going to get incredibly loud around Sterns. It's pretty loud right now, and we'll have to just see how that all plays out.

00:13:48
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00:14:25
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00:14:49
Speaker 3: No Stearns isn't going anywhere, Dobrowski's only going somewhere if he wants to. And Breslo well, whichever way the wind blows for the Red Sox can so. I don't know he'd be the one if you had to pick one of those three that would be gone. Let's talk about something a little more positive though. We get to see a one to one make his debut, Travis Bozana. Right, he makes his debut tonight. I'm assuming it's tonight for Cleveland, and what's he gonna bring to the table, what's the reason behind doing it now? And is he gonna play? Where's he gonna play? Because I know he's kinda he's moved around a little bit, So where's he gonna play?

00:15:21
Speaker 2: This goes back to the Gabriel Arius injury. That's when they brought up Brito to play second base, and he hasn't really succeeded. They're high on Brito, They're higher on Bazana obviously because he was an one to one, as you say, and he'll be the second baseman and we'll see how this plays out. What is so interesting about the Guardians is that they not only have those two players I just mentioned. They've got a bunch of other position players, young guys who could come up and make an impact at some point this season. So for a team that was largely successful last season, they had to consider their season and success what they did coming on at the end. They are going to be evolving throughout the course of the year. They're going to be evolving as they look at these different players and decide, Okay, let's plug him in here, maybe him in there now. Rokio was a guy that is in that mix of players who have been with the Guardians but not really hit their ceiling. Now he seems to be playing better, so maybe he'll stave off one of those kids. But at second base. Ultimately could be Arius at short, Rokio at second.

00:16:29
Speaker 4: But what if.

00:16:30
Speaker 2: Bizana takes off. There are all these possibilities in play for Cleveland. It makes them actually a really interesting team to follow. And also this is the reason why they didn't do more in the offseason. Now. One reason, of course, is they don't ever spend money, but they do have these players that they want to give runway to at some point and we'll see how it all plays out for them.

00:16:54
Speaker 1: Hey, Ken, last one, this is fun playing off of AJ's topic. It's not just Bizanna, but Elmer Rodriguez was just announced that not only is he popping up for the Yankees, but very soon it's tomorrow.

00:17:05
Speaker 5: So this is fun. Ken.

00:17:06
Speaker 1: We have Jacob de Gram against Cam Schlitzler tonight in Texas, and then we get Elmer Rodriguez against Nathan Evaldi.

00:17:13
Speaker 5: I mean, that is some good pitching talent. I know I'vealdi's been off to a slower start, but still that's really cool.

00:17:17
Speaker 1: So your thoughts on this and I think, you know, it's funny we can tie this to the Red Sox and how they felt like they're not developing enough on the position player side. Well, Elmer Rodriguez was in the system for the Socks, and I know they got Narvaiaz out of it, who's been a nice catcher in the big leagues. But can you imagine if Elmer Rodriguez, who is the top pitching prospect for the Yanks, becomes like an ace number one guy.

00:17:37
Speaker 5: Red Sox fans would not be pleased.

00:17:40
Speaker 2: No, they would not, And certainly there's that possibility. Elmo Rodriguez is one of the better pitching prospects in the game. But as you said, Scott, now Aviz is a major league catcher and a pretty good one. I know he's having his ups and downs. But you make that trade if you're the Red Sox to get a young catcher. I don't have a problem with that. And yes, we can second guess it in two three years if Rodriguez turns into Paul Skeins. I don't know that that's going to happen. But the excitement of young players coming into the game, it's one of my favorite things about baseball. And just what you mentioned just there about the young old matchups these next two nights, the Gram versus Schlitler, Ivaldi versus Rodriguez. That's cool stuff and it's fun stuff to watch. And one thing I like about the Yankees is kind of what I just said about Cleveland. Now, they don't have as many on the position players side, though they just brought up Jason Dominguez again, but they have young pitching, and they have guys Legron Hay is another one, and Rodriguez of course coming up tomorrow that can factor into what they do this year. They also have Garrett Cole and Carlos Rodin and possibly Clark Schmidt coming back, so there is some pitching there and it's an interesting group that they have. We'll see again how it all figures in the long run and who emerges as viable guys for the playoffs, assuming they make them. But they're in a really good spot. And keep in mind too, Ben Rice was a homegrown guy. Volpi, I know he hasn't had success homegrown guy. They've done pretty well in this regard compared to some other large market teams.

00:19:15
Speaker 5: Yeah, to me, that's the big difference.

00:19:17
Speaker 1: There was a stretch where the Yankees did not develop much, especially on the position player side. It's working for them now, so given credit where credits due on that front. Ken, thank you, Josey Agrown by the way, Aaron Judge, well that's what I was saying about, Judge. There was a gap for a while though after that that's the point. And then yes, you're right now it's flooded with good development success stories. But yes, I have not forgotten about a mister Judge.

00:19:41
Speaker 5: Ken, thank you. We'll catch you later in the week.

00:19:44
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, that's ft Senior insider Ken Rosenthal in a super busy day, Fair Territory will have lots of action for you. On Thursday, they covered the Red Sox story in depth, so go back to that if you missed it, but then otherwise Questions for Ken and Alana with him on Thursday above thirty Eastern Time