Heat Illness Prevention Program (HIPP)

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Hello brothers, sisters and friends.

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Welcome to the You are the
Current Resident podcast.

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This is the official podcast of the

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National Association of Letter Carriers,
the union that represents 280,000 active

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and retired city letter carriers employed
by the United States Postal Service.

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I'm Ed Morgan, and sitting next to me is
our national president, Brian Renfroe.

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Hey Brian, how are you doing?
Great Eddie.

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Glad to be with you again.

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So I know right after this
you're headed out the door.

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Where are you headed to?

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Our brothers and sisters in Chicago in
Branch 11 are having a rally really to get

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the word out to the media and kind of
inform the public about some of the crime,

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the robberies, the difficulty
that we're having with that.

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So just to raise awareness.

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So I'm going to fly out there this
evening and take part in that.

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We'll have several members of Congress
there and a lot of media coverage of it.

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So hopefully that'll bring some awareness
to the issues that are going on there in

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Chicago and can replicate
that in some other locations.

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Looking forward to seeing our
good folks there in Chicago.

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Tell Elise I said hello.
Will do.

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So this week we want to get into questions

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about HIPP, the Heat
Illness Prevention Program.

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Let's just get started.
Here's some questions I came up with.

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If we don't answer the questions that I
should have asked that I missed, you can

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always reach out to our Ask the Mailbag
segment at social@nalc.org. For those of

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our listeners that don't
know, what is HIPP training?

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So HIPP as you mentioned, stands for
Heat Illness Prevention Program.

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And this is a program, a plan that the

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Postal Service has had in
place for a few years now.

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And essentially what it's designed to do
is include several different elements that

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should protect workers from
the hazard of extreme heat.

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The plan that's in place, that the things
that are there are a piece of that plan

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are certainly important, but there are
things in our view that are missing and we

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may get into a little more of
that as we move through this.

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But just on a basic level, I think it's
pretty evident, it's actually scientific

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fact that the temperatures
go up every year.

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So the hazard that in the majority of the
country we face every summer, that letter

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carriers face in terms of working in the
extreme heat as it continues to grow,

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there's a diligence that's required
in order for us to be safe.

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And this is the program that the Postal
Service, through a lot of different areas,

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working with the Occupational Safety and
Health Administration, OSHA, which is part

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of the Department of Labor and dealing
with us directly over the years has been a

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result and it's a program
that's in place right now.

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Can you give me a little history on HIPP?
Sure.

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For a long time the Postal Service
did not have a national HIPP.

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And if we rewind about ten years and go

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back to 2012, 2013, somewhere in that time
frame, we began to see an increase in the

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number of letter carriers that
suffered from heat illness.

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And unfortunately, over the years, we've

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even had a few deaths as
a result of heat illness.

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So I mentioned OSHA earlier.

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They began to issue citations against the
Postal Service, where you had employees,

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some rural carriers, but mostly city
carriers, that suffered from heat illness

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as a result of the work they were
doing every day out on the street.

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And the Postal Service in some of those

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cases did not take what OSHA
viewed and certainly NALC viewed.

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Management, mostly at the local level, did
not take the appropriate steps that they

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should have to protect those employees
from the hazards of extreme heat.

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So there is a process internally
where OSHA brings citations.

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They have a litigation process where OSHA

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attorneys essentially prosecute these
citations against the Postal Service in

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front of what's called an
administrative law judge.

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And OSHA has a number of
those, we call them ALJs.

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The first one that they prosecuted that we

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were pretty deeply involved in was
out of Independence, Missouri.

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And there was a settlement reached in that
case that the Postal Service would come up

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with a plan that would apply to
Independence, because this affects, of

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course, our wages, hours
and working conditions.

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Article 19 of our collective bargaining

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agreement gives the union the right
to negotiate over such things.

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So in order for them to design that
plan, they had to negotiate it with us.

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Back then, I was the Director of City

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Delivery, and along with my counterpart at
the time at the Postal Service, we did

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negotiate a plan for Independence,
Missouri, that just applied to that

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installation be cause that
was what OSHA told us to do.

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So over the years after that, there have

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been a number of other instances of OSHA
filing citations, and they decided back, I

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think around 2018, rather than issue
citations and try to quote, prosecute each

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of these cases individually, that
OSHA would group them together.

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And their goal was to push the Postal

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Service into a place where they had to
develop a national heat illness prevention

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program without kind of nerding out and
going in depth on all of the litigation

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that took place that we were
involved in with our attorneys.

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I testified in a lot of those proceedings.

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OSHA was not successful.

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However, the Postal Service did decide, I

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think, just based on the fact that this
had been a recurring issue, obviously a

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lot of conversation and pressure from us
and collective bargaining and other areas

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that they would develop a national
HIPP to protect employees.

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We worked with them.

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You could say in some sense that
it's a negotiated agreement.

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There are pieces to that that include

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things like training at the
beginning, which is very important.

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There are other pieces of information that
has to be posted in different places.

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But the education piece
is really most important.

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So that's a little bit of a brief history
of how we arrived at the current HIPP.

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But as I mentioned earlier, there are
elements that really are accepted by

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experts in this field broadly,
that are missing from the plan.

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And we continue to this day to work to
incorporate those, be it through OSHA,

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working with the folks over
at the Department of labor.

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This is something I've spoken to the

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Secretary of Labor about and just recently
had a conversation with her about this.

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And ultimately, our goal is to achieve a
plan that is comprehensive, that indeed

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protects our members from the
hazards of excessive heat.

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So what was the Postal Service supposed
to do with the training this year?

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Yeah, so as I mentioned, a key element is
actually an entire section in the plan.

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And if you want to read the HIPP itself,
you can go to our website, nalc.org. Go to

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the Safety and Health page and you'll see
a plethora of information there that Manny

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Peralta, our Director of Safety and
Health, has put together on not just

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excessive heat, but all
types of extreme weather.

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But in particular, this plan is there.

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An entire section is devoted
to training and education.

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So every year by April 1, every city

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carrier and manager is supposed to be
trained on the elements of this HIPP.

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This is crucial not just because, of
course, people need to know about the plan

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itself and whose responsibilities
are what, all of that type stuff.

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But it's also important on an individual
basis for our members to understand the

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symptoms, to understand the warning signs
and the things that they can look for if

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they're out there working
in excessive heat.

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Because what we've seen in a lot of cases

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where we have folks that suffer from heat,
illness is it's the type of illness that

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often before you understand or realize
that you are becoming ill, it's too late.

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You're already past the point of
mitigation, let's call it, where if you

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were to recognize those signs, you can
take breaks, you can get into a shaded

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area, an air conditioned area,
obviously drinking water.

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I mean, kind of common sense things, but

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the body doesn't always feel it unless
you're aware of what those signs are.

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So that education piece is very important,
not just for the plan in general, but also

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for the individual just to understand what
they should look for and if they begin to

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feel a certain way, the steps they
should take to protect themselves.

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So shockingly, it seems, that the USPS d

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idn't give this training or even maybe
even falsified giving the training.

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Do you want to get into that at all?
Yeah.

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So we began this summer, as I'm sure a lot
of you that are listening, just becoming

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aware of folks either, as you mentioned,
A, not receiving the training or in some

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cases where maybe some in a particular
work location did and others didn't.

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And then also going in and looking at our

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training records and indicating that
people had the train that did not.

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Because that information
is really anecdotal.

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You hear it from several locations,
but it's a really big country.

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We began to gather this information.

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Each of our national business agents,
they've got a list of all the work

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locations for city carriers within their
regions, and they're currently working

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with the branches to just indicate
whether the training was done?

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Yes.
Was it not done?

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No.

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Or in the instance I described, if it was
partially done and put all that together

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so we can have that here at headquarters,
give us a clear picture of and then go

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compare that with the folks over the
Postal Service to what their records show.

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I suspect there'll be a pretty large

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discrepancy there and if indeed that turns
out to be the case, we'll know the scope

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of it and we'll be in better
position to address it.

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I will say that they are aware at

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headquarters, the Postal
Service, that this is an issue.

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I think us being able to demonstrate to

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them how widespread the issue is will
definitely put us in a position and then

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give them a better understanding of what
action we need to take to correct it.

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Not just now, this year, but
as we look forward to 2024.

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And I think if we're able to continue to
gather this information, sit down with

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them, that the training will look
a lot different come next spring.

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And ultimately that's what we want to
achieve is for our members to be trained

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on this, for managers to be trained on
this, and so they're in a better position

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to actually follow the plan and ultimately
protect our members from excessive heat.

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You sort of answered this partially, but

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what are our options after we
do this thorough fact finding?

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Yeah, there's a number of things.

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I mean, the first is obviously just

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conversations with the Postal Service over
there, letting them know, I suspect that

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they will be willing to address
this at the highest levels.

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But there's others too.

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There's our communications with folks at
OSHA and over at the Department of Labor

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and we will definitely
make them aware of this.

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And then there's other possibilities.

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We have the ability to do
a lot of different things.

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There's potential legal avenues.

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There's obviously things in our
collective bargaining agreement.

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This could some point turn into a national

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level grievance if that's the
direction we feel like we need to go.

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So there's a number of
different opportunities there.

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Could you explain what a
national level grievance is?

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Sure.
So a national level is in a lot of ways

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similar but in a lot of ways very
different from the grievance procedure at

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the local level that a lot of you
listening to this are familiar with.

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They typically fall into
one of two categories.

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Category number one is what
we call interpretive issues.

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So those are grievances that often arise
out in the field where it involves an

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issue of interpretation of what
language in the contract means.

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Then there is also the possibility of

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national grievances sometime arise from a
process that through Article 19 where the

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postal service will propose changes or the
creation of handbooks and manuals that

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affect our wages, hours
and working conditions.

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And then that Article 19 of our agreement
essentially says if anything that they do

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affects wages, hours
and working conditions.

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It's a subject to collective
bargaining for us.

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So there's a process in our collective

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bargaining agreement where they have
to notify us of proposed changes.

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There's a time period for us to review and

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discuss them and then we can appeal them
to national arbitration that's kind of

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sometimes referred to as
a national grievance.

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Then there's just simply violations

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that are just contractual in nature
that have a very broad impact.

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So things that are for example, this would

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not be something typically that a
local manager just chose to do.

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But a recent national grievance that we

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have that's pending right now has to do
with the security of PostalEASE in

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LiteBlue that resulted in a few hundred
of our members not receiving a paycheck.

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That's the type of issue that we would

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grieve as just a straight Article 15
type grievance at the national levels.

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There's multiple ways.

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This is one that would potentially could

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become a national grievance, just
that this hip training is out there.

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Article 14 on safety and health has very

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firm commitment really from both parties
that are party to the agreement in terms

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of the things we'll do
for health and safety.

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So this could potentially turn
into a national grievance.

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My preference would be to get it addressed

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outside of that process because
that typically happens quicker.

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But if we're not able to do that, then we
certainly won't hesitate to go in the

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direction of a grievance if that's what
we need to do to get it addressed.

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I know putting the cart
before the horse here.

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We want to get this solved at the easiest
level possible and the lowest level

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possible, or of course in your
way the highest level possible.

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But how would a national grievance work

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and what kind of realistic timeline
do national grievances have?

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00:13:51,290 --> 00:13:55,500
I know we're talking in generalities here,
but I know our members kind of have

226
00:13:55,530 --> 00:13:58,700
questions along these lines
and why does it take so long?

227
00:13:58,730 --> 00:14:02,500
Or why does it take as long as it takes
I guess would be a better question.

228
00:14:02,530 --> 00:14:05,460
Yeah, they do sometimes take a while.

229
00:14:05,490 --> 00:14:08,360
Scheduling of national hearings for

230
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,260
national grievances is very
different than at the local level.

231
00:14:11,290 --> 00:14:15,740
Basically the parties have to agree of
which case we're going to schedule.

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00:14:15,770 --> 00:14:18,580
So currently right now we have a very

233
00:14:18,610 --> 00:14:22,220
small number of pending
grievances at the national level.

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00:14:22,250 --> 00:14:27,540
Probably the fewest we've had in a
long, long time for a few reasons.

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00:14:27,570 --> 00:14:29,700
Number one, we've done a pretty good job

236
00:14:29,730 --> 00:14:33,420
over the last six, eight years,
I guess, of resolving them.

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00:14:33,450 --> 00:14:35,900
The ones that were pending, we did have a

238
00:14:35,930 --> 00:14:39,100
few that came up as a result
of the 2019 agreement.

239
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:40,420
Anytime you have a new collective

240
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,980
bargaining agreement, the possibility
for those interpretive issues is there.

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00:14:44,010 --> 00:14:47,700
We were able to work through
each of those and resolve those.

242
00:14:47,730 --> 00:14:50,140
So we have a pretty low caseload.

243
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:51,880
I think we only have four or five that are

244
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:58,980
pending right now, but it does take longer
because once one is initiated, you have

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00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,840
the scheduling process with a national
arbitrator, which is different than the

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00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,940
arbitrators you may see at the local
level or at the regional level.

247
00:15:05,970 --> 00:15:10,900
So the regional level, each of our regions
has a panel of arbitrators that hear their

248
00:15:10,930 --> 00:15:15,520
cases, and there's prioritization for
certain types of cases, and those are

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00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,220
scheduled through our NBA office working
with the postal service every month.

250
00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:23,620
At the national level, we have
currently one national arbitrator.

251
00:15:23,650 --> 00:15:24,980
His name is Dennis Nolan.

252
00:15:25,010 --> 00:15:30,900
We do not have, as I mentioned, very many
cases pending, and when we solicit dates

253
00:15:30,930 --> 00:15:34,260
from him, he will give us a number
of dates throughout the year.

254
00:15:34,290 --> 00:15:36,300
We have to agree to schedule that case.

255
00:15:36,330 --> 00:15:38,940
What has happened over the last few years

256
00:15:38,970 --> 00:15:44,460
is the most recent cases that we've had
come up have been the cases that we have

257
00:15:44,490 --> 00:15:46,860
gotten the postal service
to agree to schedule.

258
00:15:46,890 --> 00:15:52,100
Now, most of those have been resolved, but
if we were to initiate another grievance

259
00:15:52,130 --> 00:15:57,980
here, we would probably be looking at
dates late this year or sometime in 2024.

260
00:15:58,010 --> 00:16:00,780
We would have to agree with
them to schedule the case.

261
00:16:00,810 --> 00:16:05,820
Then there's also the piece that once a
national grievance is filed on an issue,

262
00:16:05,850 --> 00:16:11,180
any grievances that are pending or
initiated thereafter at the local level or

263
00:16:11,210 --> 00:16:14,380
that could be an informal
A or formal A or step B.

264
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:15,940
Or even if they're impassed through

265
00:16:15,970 --> 00:16:21,660
arbitration, those cases get held for that
national until that national case is

266
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,860
resolved, be it through settlement
or through an arbitrator's award.

267
00:16:24,890 --> 00:16:27,780
So the impact of having that national

268
00:16:27,810 --> 00:16:32,440
case, the time it usually takes to get
them scheduled, is not just with that

269
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:35,900
particular case because all the
other cases out there are held.

270
00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:39,900
Our process moves very fast compared to

271
00:16:39,930 --> 00:16:44,460
our sister unions, who most of them have
more cases pending than we do, but it's

272
00:16:44,490 --> 00:16:47,860
still at the national level is
just by the nature of the process.

273
00:16:47,890 --> 00:16:52,500
And the fact that we have one arbitrator,
it does mean that

274
00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,320
I won't say it always takes longer than a
regional grievance, but it is usually a

275
00:16:56,350 --> 00:17:00,060
matter of months before we're able
to get it forward to hearings.

276
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:04,290
We certainly want to make a difference
with this particular issue as soon as we

277
00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,440
can and be in a position where when we
roll around to next spring, we're in a

278
00:17:08,470 --> 00:17:12,620
place to have a lot better training
conducted and get our folks educated.

279
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,220
And ultimately, as I mentioned earlier,

280
00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:18,500
protect us from the hazard that this
plan is intended to protect us from.

281
00:17:18,530 --> 00:17:20,570
Okay, so what should every steward be

282
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,660
doing right now in terms of their
investigation for this HIPP training?

283
00:17:24,690 --> 00:17:29,940
Yeah, just if you don't know already, find
out did the training happen or did it not?

284
00:17:29,970 --> 00:17:33,090
And let your branch or your NBA office

285
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:35,700
know that that is the
most important thing.

286
00:17:35,730 --> 00:17:39,770
If you have instances of your local

287
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:44,980
management trying to push people things,
like asking them about stationary events

288
00:17:45,010 --> 00:17:50,620
or telling people know they can't take
comfort stops or rest breaks they need for

289
00:17:50,650 --> 00:17:54,940
heat, any of that kind of stuff that could
potentially be subject of a grievance.

290
00:17:54,970 --> 00:17:56,940
If it's something where

291
00:17:56,970 --> 00:18:02,090
someone is consistently pushed and they're
not feeling well or unfortunately, it

292
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:06,050
results in some type of heat injury, be
sure to communicate that to your branch.

293
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:09,940
Let your NBA office know that's the kind
of stuff that's useful to us up here.

294
00:18:09,970 --> 00:18:13,860
And we've had a pretty good success
rate in getting those things addressed.

295
00:18:13,890 --> 00:18:16,220
So those are the main things right now.

296
00:18:16,250 --> 00:18:18,840
Essentially, it's just doing the job of a

297
00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,050
steward and enforcing the collective
borrowing agreement, but also

298
00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,140
understanding that when it comes to the
heat, just like the cold, and when that's

299
00:18:26,170 --> 00:18:30,700
extreme in some places, that doing what
needs to be done to keep our people safe.

300
00:18:30,730 --> 00:18:33,460
And the last thing is just encourage.

301
00:18:33,490 --> 00:18:38,860
If you're a steward out there, you're by
nature of your position, a leader in your

302
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,560
station where you work, encourage the
folks you work with, your brothers and

303
00:18:42,590 --> 00:18:48,570
sisters, to be sure they're educated
themselves on what the warning signs of

304
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,810
heat, illness are, what they should
look for, any type of information.

305
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,250
As I mentioned, a lot
available on our website.

306
00:18:55,280 --> 00:19:00,420
You could get out to them, but that would
be something that you could do to help

307
00:19:00,450 --> 00:19:05,530
your brothers and sisters out, just to be
sure that they understand what to look for

308
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,090
and what they need to do
themselves to avoid that hazard.

309
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,290
And it's always a good time
to thank your steward.

310
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:15,900
I just want to thank all the stewards out
there to do a great job defending our

311
00:19:15,930 --> 00:19:19,140
brothers and sisters on the
workroom floor every day.

312
00:19:19,170 --> 00:19:20,770
You guys are tremendous.

313
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:22,500
Yes.
Okay.

314
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,250
And our last question we got is what

315
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,660
should every member be doing
in terms of heat safety?

316
00:19:26,690 --> 00:19:28,180
Just educate yourself.

317
00:19:28,210 --> 00:19:29,900
This is one of those issues where

318
00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:35,810
regardless of what the Postal Service does
or doesn't do, regardless of what your

319
00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:41,220
manager may tell you or try to push you to
do, we all have the ability to protect

320
00:19:41,250 --> 00:19:45,660
ourselves here, and that can
only come through education.

321
00:19:45,690 --> 00:19:48,380
You being aware of what you need to do

322
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:50,570
very simple things of
taking care of yourself.

323
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,530
Like if it's a really hot day, it's
too late to start drinking water.

324
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,530
Once you get out there and get hot, begin

325
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,290
hydrating early in the morning
and just take care of yourself.

326
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,980
There's nothing that can happen out there.

327
00:20:03,010 --> 00:20:08,290
There's nothing that's important enough
for any letter carrier out there for us to

328
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,940
put ourselves in danger, become familiar
with the warning signs and all that stuff,

329
00:20:13,970 --> 00:20:16,570
as I mentioned, is out
there on our website.

330
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,180
And most importantly, just
take care of yourself.

331
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,740
Great.
Those are the questions I had about HIPP.

332
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,760
If I missed your question or you want to

333
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,090
add to our question list, we always
have our Ask the Mailbag segment.

334
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,460
In future episodes, we can circle back and

335
00:20:29,490 --> 00:20:34,620
try to answer your questions on Hip or any
questions you have involving our union.

336
00:20:34,650 --> 00:20:37,010
You can ask our mailbag at

337
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:44,140
social@nalc.org. All right, so now
we're in our Ask the Mailbag segment.

338
00:20:44,170 --> 00:20:46,050
We have a question from Glenn Gibson.

339
00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,500
If you ever do put in your questions,
make sure you leave your branch.

340
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,460
We'd like to know where from around
the country you're listening.

341
00:20:51,490 --> 00:20:53,660
Glenn Gibson wants to know.

342
00:20:53,690 --> 00:20:55,770
He'd like to see training nationally for

343
00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:00,180
basic items like how to file a grievance,
key features of our contract that come up

344
00:21:00,210 --> 00:21:04,420
often, and when references are made
to the contract, where to find them.

345
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,770
He just really wants to know.
He's a shop steward.

346
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:11,530
He wants to get more involved and he
wants more information and more training.

347
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,770
Can you talk about any kind of
upcoming training we're going to have?

348
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,010
Yeah.
So Glenn, that's a great question.

349
00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:21,330
And you asked the question to the right
people, because there's no folks around

350
00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:24,140
here that love training
more than Eddie and I.

351
00:21:24,170 --> 00:21:25,980
I'm really excited about this.

352
00:21:26,010 --> 00:21:30,360
So we are working really hard, a number of

353
00:21:30,390 --> 00:21:34,600
our headquarters officers and staffers
here and more of our folks out in the

354
00:21:34,630 --> 00:21:39,800
field that are working with us on
expanding the type of training that we

355
00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:43,010
create and offer from the
headquarters level in 2024.

356
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,420
That includes traditional training
that we do in a classroom setting.

357
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:48,940
Something similar to those of you out

358
00:21:48,970 --> 00:21:53,380
there that may have attended your NBA
holding their regional training or your

359
00:21:53,410 --> 00:21:58,000
branch may potentially do some training
there, but to increase the number of

360
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,900
things that we offer
from headquarters level.

361
00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:01,780
And I think the place to start is exactly

362
00:22:01,810 --> 00:22:04,660
where you started, and that
is with steward training.

363
00:22:04,690 --> 00:22:07,700
That's basic on the grievance procedure as

364
00:22:07,730 --> 00:22:10,860
well as all the other
duties of a shop steward.

365
00:22:10,890 --> 00:22:14,140
So this could expand
into all sorts of areas.

366
00:22:14,170 --> 00:22:21,050
And our eventual goal is to offer training
for every person that's out there that's

367
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,260
an activist that wants to be
involved in whatever area that is.

368
00:22:25,290 --> 00:22:29,560
If that's as shop steward, a grievance
representative, if that's representing our

369
00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:34,780
members in OWCP, if that's someone that's
involved legislatively and politically, if

370
00:22:34,810 --> 00:22:39,620
you're someone that's involved in
community service, potentially doing more

371
00:22:39,650 --> 00:22:43,700
along the lines of the current branch
officer training that we have, there's all

372
00:22:43,730 --> 00:22:47,740
kinds of opportunities that are out
there, and we're working hard on that.

373
00:22:47,770 --> 00:22:50,160
And we intend to later on this fall, kind

374
00:22:50,190 --> 00:22:54,540
of introduce and roll out what we
plan to do for 2024 and beyond.

375
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,290
That's kind of in the classroom setting.

376
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,620
And another things that I'll mention that

377
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,180
I hope will really resonate with those
of you that are podcast listeners.

378
00:23:02,210 --> 00:23:07,020
Eddie and I are both pretty prolific
podcast listeners if you're involved in

379
00:23:07,050 --> 00:23:11,180
social media is to supplement
all this in person training.

380
00:23:11,210 --> 00:23:16,600
We are also in the process of developing
online kind of web based things that

381
00:23:16,630 --> 00:23:21,160
people can do on their own through
elearning expanding the things that we

382
00:23:21,190 --> 00:23:23,780
make available through
our members only portal.

383
00:23:23,810 --> 00:23:26,460
So all of that stuff will all be part of

384
00:23:26,490 --> 00:23:30,020
this kind of rollout and the package
we're talking about for next year.

385
00:23:30,050 --> 00:23:34,330
So we're excited about taking advantage
of every opportunity we have to give.

386
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:38,620
We already have, if not the most active,
certainly one of the most active

387
00:23:38,650 --> 00:23:40,980
memberships among any
union in this country.

388
00:23:41,010 --> 00:23:44,540
I mean, that's pretty well known
around this city in Washington, DC.

389
00:23:44,570 --> 00:23:49,330
And we're excited about giving our folks
the opportunity know, look, even if you're

390
00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:53,500
not in a position because of whatever
circumstances, to attend in person

391
00:23:53,530 --> 00:23:56,700
training, things that you
can do on your own to learn.

392
00:23:56,730 --> 00:24:01,860
So we've got a lot of really intelligent,
dedicated, smart people working on that

393
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,040
stuff and we're excited
to get that out to you.

394
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,900
So I'm sure you'll hear more
about that in future episodes.

395
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,260
But really good question.
Yeah.

396
00:24:08,290 --> 00:24:09,330
Thanks, Glenn.

397
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:14,020
Our next question comes from Jim Adcock
and he wants to know when is this terrible

398
00:24:14,050 --> 00:24:19,180
legislation, the Windfall Elimination
Provision, going to be amended?

399
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,090
He knows that Congress never likes to give

400
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:25,020
us our money back, but he would really
like some relief for the retirees.

401
00:24:25,050 --> 00:24:30,290
So can you just give us an
update on the WEP/GPO bills?

402
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:30,810
Sure.

403
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,500
So, another really good question, and for
those that are listening

404
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,940
that may not be as familiar with it,
let me give a very brief background.

405
00:24:38,970 --> 00:24:41,020
This has to do with Social Security.

406
00:24:41,050 --> 00:24:45,290
So there are two things that are out there
that are part of the existing law that

407
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:52,020
came about in the 1980s called the
Windfall Elimination Provision or WEP, WEP

408
00:24:52,050 --> 00:24:55,540
and the government pension
offset called GPO.

409
00:24:55,570 --> 00:25:03,380
In a nutshell, what these do is for a lot
of retirees, in our case civil service

410
00:25:03,410 --> 00:25:08,940
retirees, for the most part, it unfairly
reduces your Social Security benefits.

411
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,420
It's a little bit complicated in terms
of the impact on each individual.

412
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:13,980
Trust me, if you're out there and you're

413
00:25:14,010 --> 00:25:18,380
impacted, you know what it is because
you're not getting the money that you

414
00:25:18,410 --> 00:25:21,540
essentially earn by paying into
the Social Security system.

415
00:25:21,570 --> 00:25:24,290
The idea legislatively would be just

416
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,220
simply to repeal those two provisions
that are in the current law.

417
00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:30,050
There is a bill out there right now.

418
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:36,460
It is H.R. 82, ironically the same number
as the bill was in the previous Congress.

419
00:25:36,490 --> 00:25:38,920
We currently have a bipartisan majority of

420
00:25:38,950 --> 00:25:44,380
that Congress of the House that are
co sponsoring that bill, 288 of them.

421
00:25:44,410 --> 00:25:49,220
It is the leading sponsor on the bill that
actually introduced the bill is

422
00:25:49,250 --> 00:25:52,540
Congressman Garrett Graves
from the state of Louisiana.

423
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,290
This was his first time leading it.

424
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,700
Previously a great friend to letter

425
00:25:56,730 --> 00:26:01,940
carriers, Rodney Davis, a former
Congressman from Illinois, a Republican,

426
00:26:01,970 --> 00:26:04,860
had led this bill for us
for the last several.

427
00:26:04,890 --> 00:26:07,260
Unfortunately, because of a change in

428
00:26:07,290 --> 00:26:10,290
districts, he lost in a primary,
so he's no longer here.

429
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,180
But Congressman Graves has been excellent.

430
00:26:13,210 --> 00:26:15,290
We do have a lot of co sponsors.

431
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:20,200
I encourage you to check out our website
and go to congress.gov, if you're a member

432
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:22,860
of Congress, is not a
co sponsor of H.R. 82.

433
00:26:22,890 --> 00:26:25,140
It's called the Social
Security Fairness Act.

434
00:26:25,170 --> 00:26:26,980
Ask them to co sponsor it.

435
00:26:27,010 --> 00:26:30,380
But I think it's important to point out

436
00:26:30,410 --> 00:26:34,860
and just be realistic about where
we are in this particular Congress.

437
00:26:34,890 --> 00:26:40,050
The chances of passing this legislation in
this House of Representatives with the

438
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,290
current leadership in the House of
Representatives,

439
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,860
I won't say it's impossible, but
it certainly is challenging.

440
00:26:46,890 --> 00:26:49,460
This is a piece of legislation that

441
00:26:49,490 --> 00:26:55,050
affects not just postal retirees, but just
millions of people around the country.

442
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,400
In some cases, if folks worked and have a

443
00:26:58,430 --> 00:27:02,020
local or state retirement,
that could also be impacted.

444
00:27:02,050 --> 00:27:04,720
So while the prospects of getting it

445
00:27:04,750 --> 00:27:10,860
through this House in 2023, 2024
definitely have challenges.

446
00:27:10,890 --> 00:27:15,620
I would also remind you if you think of
the postal reform bill that we passed was

447
00:27:15,650 --> 00:27:21,220
signed into law last year, that's a piece
of legislation that over a ten to twelve

448
00:27:21,250 --> 00:27:25,220
year period we worked on
in every single Congress.

449
00:27:25,250 --> 00:27:27,720
And while it can be frustrating to work on

450
00:27:27,750 --> 00:27:34,460
it and get co sponsors and build support,
if you go back to, let's say 2010, 2011,

451
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,940
those of you that were involved
legislatively and politically then if you

452
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,290
talked about pre funding, people
would look at you like you were nuts.

453
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:46,140
They had no idea what you were talking
about because of the work that we did.

454
00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:48,540
And by we I mean all of our members,

455
00:27:48,570 --> 00:27:50,940
certainly our people
here in Washington, DC.

456
00:27:50,970 --> 00:27:55,680
Just as importantly, if not more, know the
work that our members have done with our

457
00:27:55,710 --> 00:28:01,420
members of Congress at the local, know
educating your friends and know the media.

458
00:28:01,450 --> 00:28:04,020
As we worked every Congress on different

459
00:28:04,050 --> 00:28:08,540
pieces of legislation to repeal that pre
funding, though we were not successful

460
00:28:08,570 --> 00:28:12,460
until the Congress that was
sworn in in January of 2021.

461
00:28:12,490 --> 00:28:15,810
We raised that education level in every

462
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:21,700
single Congress to the point where an
election went a certain way in 2020.

463
00:28:21,730 --> 00:28:28,860
The right leadership was in place in the
House, not just in the House and in the

464
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,220
Senate, but also in the
committees of jurisdiction.

465
00:28:31,250 --> 00:28:32,380
That's important too.

466
00:28:32,410 --> 00:28:38,540
And this repeal of pre funding was just
the universally accepted fix and that was

467
00:28:38,570 --> 00:28:42,800
not the case before going back
to H.R. 82 to repeal the.

468
00:28:42,830 --> 00:28:47,330
WEP and the GPO, even if we're not
successful in getting that done in this

469
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:52,780
Congress, the work we do for the rest of
this year and next year is still very

470
00:28:52,810 --> 00:28:59,260
important because it builds support, it
raises awareness, it raises education.

471
00:28:59,290 --> 00:29:01,540
That when an election goes the right way,

472
00:29:01,570 --> 00:29:07,480
and hopefully that's in 2024, the right
leadership is in place in both houses of

473
00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:11,460
Congress, in the committees of
jurisdiction, and also in the White House.

474
00:29:11,490 --> 00:29:14,980
You are primed to pass a piece
of legislation like this.

475
00:29:15,010 --> 00:29:18,700
That was a long answer to a short
question, but I think that's important

476
00:29:18,730 --> 00:29:22,980
that it takes all of us and we'll
continue to lobby here in DC.

477
00:29:23,010 --> 00:29:27,740
And based on the fact that we've already
got 288 co sponsors, I feel certain that

478
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,090
our folks out in the field, our state
associations, our letter carrier

479
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:35,120
congressional liaisons in every district
will keep working hard to educate our

480
00:29:35,150 --> 00:29:38,290
members and grow that
number of co sponsors.

481
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:39,740
Great.
Thank you.

482
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,740
All right, Brian, that's going
to end the show for this week.

483
00:29:42,770 --> 00:29:44,810
As always, I want to thank you for your

484
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,140
time, and I just want to
thank all our listeners.

485
00:29:47,170 --> 00:29:51,780
Thank you for listening to this episode
of You Are the Current Resident podcast.

486
00:29:51,810 --> 00:29:56,420
Please subscribe to the podcast so that
you don't miss an episode, and please

487
00:29:56,450 --> 00:30:00,220
share the podcast with our
NALC brothers and sisters.

488
00:30:00,250 --> 00:30:02,330
We do have our Ask the Mailbag segment.

489
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,700
If you want question asked and answered,

490
00:30:04,730 --> 00:30:11,620
submit your questions to social@nalc.org.
You can follow the NALC on social media,

491
00:30:11,650 --> 00:30:15,090
on Facebook, Twitter,
Instagram and threads.

492
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,540
You can find links to our accounts in the
episode description, and you can follow

493
00:30:19,570 --> 00:30:23,140
President Renfro on Twitter at
@BrianRenfroe19.

494
00:30:23,170 --> 00:30:24,700
Thank you again for listening.

495
00:30:24,730 --> 00:30:28,860
Make your steward be by your side
and your union have your back.

496
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:29,160
Thanks.