Trump, Zelenskiy Meeting Turns Into Argument; Mineral Deal Falls Through

Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:10.360 I'm not aligned with Putin, I'm not aligned with anybody. 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:13.040 I'm aligned with the United States of America and for 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:14.800 the good of the world. 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:17.439 I'm aligned with the world. You want me to be tough. 0:00:17.480 --> 0:00:19.920 I could be tougher than any human being you've ever seen. 0:00:19.960 --> 0:00:22.840 I'd be so tough, But you're never going to get 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:23.520 a deal that way. 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.520 Do you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:27.440 you will feel it. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:31.680 Bless You don't know that. I'm blessed, you're I'm blessed. 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:32.159 You don't know. 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:35.400 Don't tell us what we're gonna feel. We're trying to 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:37.960 solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going to feel. 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:40.199 I'm not telling you because you're in no position to 0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:44.640 dictate that. Remember this, you're in no position to dictate 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.440 what we're going to feel. You're not in a good position. 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:50.559 You don't have the cards right now with us. You 0:00:50.640 --> 0:00:53.720 start having right now. You don't know your playing car. 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.800 You're gambling with the lives and millions of people. You're 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.640 gambling with world two War three. Your country is in 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:02.360 big trouble. 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:04.960 I know you're not winning. Oh you're not winning. 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.840 This, you have a damn good chance of coming out 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:09.280 okay because of bread. 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.320 All right, there you have President Trump, President Zelenski, Vice 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.960 President J. D Vance and others in a very crowded 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:20.440 Oval Office and what was a bilateral meeting that turned 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.640 into an argument. Just bringing that to you as it's 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.080 coming into our newsroom right now. They jumped in about 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.560 halfway through the meeting, so we might be able to 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:31.440 get you some other comments from the beginning of that conversation. 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.520 As reporters are escorted outside of the Oval Office, Donald 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:38.640 Trump to Vladimir Zelensky, you either make a deal or 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.800 we are out, he said, telling Zelensky he has to 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.960 be thankful, and he said it's going to be very 0:01:44.000 --> 0:01:48.000 hard to do business like this. As President Zelenski tried 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:50.480 to make his case to jd Vance, Donald Trump and others, 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.120 things got very chippy in the middle of that meeting. 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.440 And we want to assemble our political panel. They were 0:01:55.440 --> 0:01:59.320 listening along with us here our signature panel together. Rick Davis, 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:03.040 Republicans strategist partner at Stone Court Capital, and Genie Shanzano, 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.680 of course, our democratic analyst and political science professor at 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:09.680 Iona University. Rick, I'm not sure I've ever heard anything 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:11.880 like that come out of a meeting of world leaders 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.000 in the Oval Office. Typically an argument like that would 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:16.440 be behind closed doors. It just played out for everyone 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.440 to see. Is this relationship broken? Where do we go 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:19.880 from here? 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:22.680 Yeah, Joe, I'm not sure you would even say that 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.640 this kind of argument ever happens behind closed doors. I mean, 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:29.400 these kinds of state to state discussions are usually finely tuned, 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.960 they're prepped, They have lots of staff involved making sure 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.000 that the time that the two principles spend together is 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:42.040 well orchestrated and that the outcome is totally predetermined. The 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.359 idea that you would put these two folks in the 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:47.960 Oval Office with a bunch of reporters to hash it 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.080 out is something I don't think I've ever seen in 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:55.600 five decades of Washington state craft. So I think what 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.160 we just witnessed was something that you know, look, I mean, 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:04.120 everybody Knewald Trump kind of you know, goes his own way, 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:06.799 but the idea that this is either good for America, 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:10.760 good for Ukraine, or good for the world is nuts. 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:16.079 This was an incredible failure of diplomacy. And regardless of 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.040 what happens today, maybe they get a deal and they 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:21.640 saw it, you know, showing this makes both countries look weak. 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:25.880 Wow, Genie, give me your take on this. Was it 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.320 a conversation? A lot of people stressed out went off 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:33.000 the rails when they heard the wrong words from Voladimir Zelensky. 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.240 He wasn't thankful enough? Or was this a setup? Did 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.840 Donald Trump and Jade Vance plan to do this with 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:38.720 the cameras in the room? 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:40.320 Yeah? 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.480 I mean, you know, one of the big questions hanging 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:45.520 over this meeting, in addition to security guarantees, which we 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:49.480 could probably forget that question for right now, was can 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:53.080 we work together? You know, Vladimir Zelenski trying to test 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:55.880 out does Donald Trump, you know, like me enough that 0:03:55.920 --> 0:03:59.240 we can make this happen? And that kind of exchange 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:04.280 is just a reminder and interpersonal relationships matter an awful 0:04:04.320 --> 0:04:07.440 lot in these things, So that seems to be very clear. 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.640 There is not a lot of love lost there. And 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:13.800 of course this is quite embarrassing from the perspective of 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:18.400 the United States. He is talking to our ally in 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:23.479 this war. He is talking to a country invaded by Putin. 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:28.880 In twenty fourteen, seven million Ukrainians have fled their homeland. 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.159 We are talking of hundreds of thousands of innocent people 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:36.440 now dead, four millions still deplaced, and he is being 0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:39.560 told from the Vice President and the President of the 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.520 United States, heretofore their allies that you are not being 0:04:43.680 --> 0:04:47.200 thankful enough to us as you sit here. And so 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.200 it is quite an embarrassing spectacle. It does look made 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:56.279 for TV from my perspective. You wouldn't believe it unless 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.760 you saw it firsthand, that this was the conversation that 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.000 the are having, And I can't imagine what it looks 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.520 like behind the scenes. Is this is what they're displaying? 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:07.120 Oh my god? Yeah, Well, what do you think, Rick? 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:12.560 Did this feel spontaneous? And does this torpedo the bilateral 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.000 news conference they had planned for ten minutes from now? 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:18.040 You know, it's hard to tell what they're going to 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.600 do to put this back together, you know, behind closed 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.840 doors now, it's going to have to take a lot 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.600 of work, because I think both principals are going back 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.280 to their neutral corners ready to come out throwing punches again. Look, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:34.000 I mean, Donald Trump, I think started out this session 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:39.919 pretty constructively, and I must admit, I mean the interjections 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:44.040 by Vice President Vance really stoked a lot of anger 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:49.440 in the room and was really counterproductive, I thought, and 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:50.960 even Donald Trump at the end tried to bring it 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:52.880 back and saying, look, we just wanted to stop the 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.680 killing and get a deal. And the elements of a 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.560 deal are there, right. I mean, he's had great meetings 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:04.440 this week with you know, leaders of Europe in France 0:06:04.480 --> 0:06:08.599 and Great Britain, all of whom have guaranteed certain security 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.000 measures that they would do in case of a ceasefire 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.479 or a end of the war. And I mean, like 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:16.640 he was walking in the President of the United States 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:19.800 into kind of a very positive environment where he could, 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.320 you know, I didn't have to commit to putting troops 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.720 on the ground, but you know, could obviously continue to 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.240 say we're going to supply you with materials and weapons 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.360 because you're going to pay for them. And that kind 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.240 of relationship is traditional for US, I mean, and it's 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:39.240 sustainable over time. It's a real mature relationship between US 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:42.560 and one of its allies and supporters, Ukraine. So everyone 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.640 thought this was going to be sort of the beginning 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:51.600 of a real mature relationship, one that's post combat conflict. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:56.320 And and my impression was that's not something JD. Van's 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.240 wanted to see happen today and set out to try 0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:01.680 and derail it there in front of the American public. 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:06.000 Just about a minute or two he left here Jeanie, 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:09.360 Donald Trump invoked Vladimir Putin's talked about what they had 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:11.960 gone through, how much they went through together during the 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:15.400 Russia investigation. He started doing the Russia, Russia, Russia thing. 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.920 He got very angry looking as he was referring to this. 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:22.640 He also revealed that he just met again recently with 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.040 Vladimir Putin. Do you think the Russian president had a 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:28.480 sense of what this meeting was going to be like? 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:31.920 You know, it's hard to know. We thought this was 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.320 a win for Vladimir Zelensky that he got to Donald 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.160 Trump personally, face to face first. And you know, I 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:42.720 think there is going to be some criticism all around, 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:46.880 obviously starting with jd Vance, but including Vladimir Zelensky. The 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:51.640 reality is Ukraine unfortunately does not have a lot of 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.280 cards to play. And those were the exact words that 0:07:54.320 --> 0:07:57.240 Donald Trump used. I'm not sure he needed to say 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.880 it that viscerally, but that's what he said, and he's right. 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.680 That's why Zelenski's task today was to do what they 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:07.040 told Queen Victoria. Close your eyes and think of England. 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.080 Close your eyes and think of Ukraine. And the reality 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.800 is he couldn't get there in the face of JD 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.280 Vance's taunting, and so I think he's going to bear 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:20.760 some criticism on this as well, because the reality is 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.640 Ukraine needs the support of the United States if they 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:25.400 are going to sisto. 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:27.920 Our panel's going to stay with us, GD Shanzano and 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:29.840 Rick Davis. We're going to try to unpack what the 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:31.880 heck just happened in the Oval Office. So stay with 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:33.360 us right here on Bloomberg. 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.320 You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:40.440 us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.800 Apple Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.880 You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:51.400 flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.760 We're going to have a conversation ahead with former Ambassador 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.240 Daniel Freed. First, we want to talk with Nick Wadams, 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:02.760 who leads our national security coverage here in Washington, DC. Nick, 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:04.560 have you ever seen anything like this before? 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:07.360 No, I have not. 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:11.120 That was one of the most extraordinary bits of television 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.640 I've ever seen. Obviously, the President there getting extremely angry, 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:20.520 and then Vice President jd Vance essentially asking Zelenski to 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.960 grovel and to express thanks to the US, which of 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.640 course he has done many times before for the weaponry 0:09:27.360 --> 0:09:29.440 and the aid that the US has provided. So an 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:30.679 extraordinary moment. 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.040 Well, certainly so. And I guess the question, Nick, is now, 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.880 what moments come after this? Things have moved behind closed doors. 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.880 But initially there was supposed to be an agreement signed 0:09:41.000 --> 0:09:42.440 in front of the press in the East Room of 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.920 the White House that was supposed to be scheduled to 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.360 happen at this hour. Is there any indication of whether 0:09:47.400 --> 0:09:48.520 that will still happen. 0:09:49.600 --> 0:09:51.600 Well, we are trying to figure that out. I mean, 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.520 the big question here is does that go ahead or 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.800 are we at an impasse where essentially the relationship is 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:01.320 totally broken. I mean, been clear for some time that 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:06.200 President Trump was not excited about Volodimir Zelenski. He did 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:08.080 at one point call him a dictator. Though then in 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:09.840 the last day or two we'd had a turn where 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:12.880 it felt like the situation was warming up a little bit, 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:15.600 things were getting better. They thought they had a deal 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.800 that served Ukraine's interests, essentially punted a lot of questions 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.360 until later, but gave President Trump a document to show 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:25.439 his supporters to say, look, we are going to get 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:26.200 something out of this. 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:27.280 Now. 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:30.400 Seems very unlikely to me that the two sides, without 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:32.760 some further intervention, would be willing to sit down and 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:36.240 actually put pen to paper, put their signatures on that document. 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:39.800 Then the whole thing may end up in total collapse. 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:41.480 But we'll just have to see. In the next hour 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.600 or so, they're also supposed to have a press conference, 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:47.760 and of course it's not going to happen, so great question. 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.160 We will bring it to our viewers and listeners if 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.040 it does. Nick. That was scheduled to begin seven minutes ago, 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.400 but obviously things are running late. Before things started getting angry, 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:59.680 Donald Trump said to Voladimir Zelenski, you either make a 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.280 deal or we are out. You take him at his word. 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.240 Yes, I would take him at his word on that. 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.680 I mean, you know, the thing that's so interesting is 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:12.840 this critical minerals deal. When you get down to it 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:17.280 was essentially an agreement to have talks about talks at 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:19.560 a later time, So there wasn't really anything in it 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.000 that actually committed either side to much of anything. And indeed, 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.200 there was some speculation that this was basically something that 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:30.480 Ukraine and some pro Ukraine lawmakers and others in the 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:33.240 United States could put in front of President Trump and say, listen, 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:35.680 we got this from them. Now we can get down 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:38.680 to the real business of actually having real negotiations, both 0:11:38.720 --> 0:11:40.920 over this deal but over a peace agreement later on. 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:45.320 So if President Trump essentially backs out and throws himself 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:48.680 in with the Russian side, or abandons Ukraine and lets 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.839 Russia run roughshot over Ukrainian territory, I mean, this is 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:56.320 a critical moment. This is just completely unprecedented. So again, 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.800 we should have more clarity in the next couple of 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:00.920 hours and also in the coming days. But what you 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.680 really saw here was just the eruption of the hostility. 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.080 We had known that President Trump felt about Ukraine from 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.520 some time, but had been restrained from exhibiting. Now it 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.720 feels like those shackles are basically off. 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.280 All right, Bloomberg's Nick Wadams, thank you so much with 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:19.640 reaction to the footage We've all just seen and watching 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:22.240 it alongside us now here in our Washington, d C. 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:25.880 Studio is Ambassador Daniel Freed, Distinguished Fellow at the Atlantic Council, 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.239 also former US Ambassador to Poland and former Assistant Secretary 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.160 of State for Europe here with Us on Bloomberg TV 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:36.400 and Radio. So obviously we all saw, we all heard 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:41.080 the exchange that happened between these three, ambassador What do 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:41.679 you make of it? 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:44.520 Take a step back. 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:49.760 The US has an interest in Ukraine succeeding. Our problems 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:54.600 in the world get better if Ukraine survives and prospers, 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.040 and if Russia wins, our problems get worse. It's been 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:02.360 quite a week. The Trump plan for Ukraine, as we 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.600 understand it, could work and was getting some traction ceasefire 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.679 in place, British and French led force in Ukraine, maybe 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:15.839 with American backup, a minerals deal with Ukraine that gives 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.080 President Trump the ability to say, yeah, I've got a 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.400 stake in this that could come together, and now this 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:25.559 now this blow up. Let's hope, best case that they 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:32.160 pull it together. You know, President Trump loves drama for TV. 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:35.200 Let's hope that they can pull it together. Sign the 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:40.760 minerals deal, move forward, because the US, the Trump administration 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.880 could succeed and Trump could get what he wants, which 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.760 is to push back on Putin, be seen as doing so, 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.520 and be seen as a peacemaker. Now I realize that 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:55.040 this may be completely fanciful if in the next few 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:56.520 hours this all blows up. 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:57.200 I get that. 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:01.520 But my job for forty years Foreign Service officer is 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:04.319 to try to look at the way forward, and there 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:09.240 is a way forward, which is why my frustration is 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:13.000 that the administration keeps stepping on its own policy. This 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.480 fight in the Oval was not necessary, especially because Zelenski 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:24.880 is actually working accord according to Trump's plan. He's ready 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:28.240 to sign the deal. I suspect he's ready to accept 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.080 the seize fire if he gets enough security. Trump could 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:34.200 win if he has the discipline to see it through. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.840 You've been in many rooms with world leaders for very 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.840 sensitive negotiations. I'm guessing you two have never seen anything 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.160 quite like that. Did it feel authentic, did it feel 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.440 spontaneous or was there some show business with cameras and 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:48.640 microphones in the room today. 0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:54.880 That's a good question. I watched it carefully. I think 0:14:55.000 --> 0:15:01.640 Vice President Vance was provoking Zelenski. I think Zelenski could 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:06.440 have answered it differently. He was trying to explain the details. 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:08.880 That's not what I would have done or advised him 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.640 to do. But then you had the president and the 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.440 Vice president basically bullying a democratic leader who is fighting 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:19.920 for his freedom and ours. So I don't see what 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:26.080 American interest is is advanced by having this fight. 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.880 Was it deliberate? Was it an ambush? 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:35.800 It's possible, But the larger question remains, what do we 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.720 get out of having a fight? I know what Putin gets. 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:43.240 What do we get? We get a lot. If Ukraine succeeds, 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.120 and especially if we get the British and French to 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.640 carry the heavy load of the security burden, that's quite 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:53.080 a success for trumpet success for America. I'm all on board, 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.440 but the administration has to follow its own plan and 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.000 not get distracted by this stuff. 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:01.600 Well, on your point, ambassador about it being in US 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:05.480 interest to see Ukraine succeed to the extent it can, 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.280 it did seem. We saw President Selensky trying to make 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.560 that point when he suggested, yes, I know you're here 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:12.400 on the other side of the Atlantic, but you could 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:15.880 ultimately feel this. President Trump pushed back on them, saying, 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:17.840 you know, don't tell us what to feel. But also 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:21.200 then later suggested Zelensky, right now is toying with World 0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:24.680 War three, which presumably would involve the US, and somehow 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:26.720 we aren't immune to conflicts like that, as we saw 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:28.080 with the prior World War. 0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:33.080 So which is it? Yeah, President Trump was just wrong 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:35.360 about that. We thought we. 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:39.760 Were safe behind two oceans and then Pearl Harbor, right, 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:44.160 we figured it out fast. We can't be the lonely 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.840 bastion of freedom in the world. That's what Franklin Roosevelt, 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:52.800 Harry Truman, and Ronald Reagan taught us. And that's the 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:58.040 right lesson and it is the Trump administration in its 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.280 more wise moments, understood that we're in a period of 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:06.120 great power rivalry and we have adversaries Russia, China, Iran. 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:10.000 So yeah, let's work with our friends to contend with 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.760 our adversaries. And Ukraine is our friend. Maybe a little 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:15.320 difficult sometime, but still. 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.199 But the President today didn't seem to characterize Russia as 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:20.480 an adversary necessarily. When he was asked do you feel 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.320 in the middle, he said, I'm for both Ukraine and Russia. 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:24.320 How did you interpret that? 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:28.160 Well, that's not the language I would have used, and 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.480 I don't think our position at the UN was very 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:34.679 good on Monday where we supported a week resolution. But 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.040 if that's the way President Trump wants to play it, okay, 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.159 play it that way, but then land the deal, and 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.560 the deal has to provide for Ukraine's security because if 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:50.440 it doesn't, then we've been suckered by the Russians and diplomacy. 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:52.080 Don't be the sucker. 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.800 We love talking with practitioners. You're a career diplomat, bring 0:17:56.920 --> 0:18:00.280 us into the room and maybe not an extent dream 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.320 like this, But when a meeting devolves, the reporters have left. 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.960 Who is in the diplomatic delegation? Who gets their arms 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.560 around this? Do people go to separate rooms? What do 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.359 you do now? As a diplomat when the meeting just 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:13.399 blew up in your face? 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:17.960 You advise your principle on how to fix it? What 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.199 do you do to set it right? And you and 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.720 what do you do in terms of what's possible for 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:29.200 you politically? And someone like me is supposed to find 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:34.560 a way forward? Sosident. If I were advising President Trump, 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:37.640 I would say, look, you made your point. Now tell 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.800 Zelensky make light of it. Tells Zelensky we need a deal. 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.600 Let's show people after we've pushed back that we can 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:43.840 do that. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:45.840 But you get the boss alone in a room. Right now, 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:47.640 everyone goes cool off for a minute. 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.040 Now, the national security this is the job for the 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.760 National Security Advisory And I think Mike Walls. 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:55.480 Is a serious person. 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:56.400 He was right in there. 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:57.720 That's right now. 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:02.760 I also think that Zelensky, he should Zelenski's people should 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.399 figure out a way for him to approach Trump and 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:08.800 make clear that yeah, he's grateful to the United States, 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:13.040 and yeah, he appreciates Trump's role in pushing things forward. 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:18.240 Say that it's true enough and it will help. So 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:22.359 you at moments like this, the pros scramble, don't wring 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:26.199 your hands, don't complain, figure out what you're going to do, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.560 figure out the way forward, and do it fast. 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.400 Do They will have this news conference Kaling. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.320 Well, I was just about to ask, ambassador, do you 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.240 have confidence that they are able to do that? And 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:38.080 we'll see these two having corrected or taken the break 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.280 that they need, facing the press once again, worse afternoons. 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:44.400 I'm in an impossible position because we're going to know 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:47.920 just how long I am. I would say this because 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:53.360 it's Donald Trump who loves drama. And twists and turns. 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:57.520 He could easily decide to pull it back. He could 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:01.000 now I'm not saying he will, but I don't think 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:02.800 all is necessarily lost. 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:03.600 Right. 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:08.240 He loves TV drama and he's got one going. But 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.160 the drama. You don't milk that drama. If you continue 0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:15.520 the fight, you get more attention and put yourself maybe 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.520 in a stronger tactical tactical position, if you can come 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:19.520 out and say, yeah, that. 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.240 Was rough, but we've agreed. 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:27.080 So if I were advising the President, I would say, Okay, 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:28.960 you pushed hard. 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:31.800 Now lands Land a deal. 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:36.280 If you're Donald Trump, you can take credit for saving 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:37.159 this day, can't you? 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:41.240 If things go right, that would be my advice. 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:45.080 Again, they're not going to ask me, but somebody like 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.480 me is supposed to advise the president on how to 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:48.480 succeed on his term. 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.800 Ambassador, I apologize for interrupting, but we just got a 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:55.880 statement from the President which reads as follows. It's amazing 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.199 what comes out through emotion. And I have determined that 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.880 President Zelensky is not ready for peace if America is involved, 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:05.000 because he feels our involvement gives him a big advantage 0:21:05.000 --> 0:21:08.080 in negotiations. I don't want advantage. I want peace. He 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:11.080 goes on to say he disrespected the United States of 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:14.520 America in its cherished Oval office. He can come back 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:16.440 when he is ready for peace. 0:21:17.760 --> 0:21:18.760 Pretty remarkable here. 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:27.080 Well, that's unfortunate, especially because we showed no similar toughness 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.320 in New York on Monday with a week un resolution. 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.080 Not good and I don't see what American interest is 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:35.080 advanced thereby. 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:36.760 If there was one voice we could have at the 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:39.199 table today, it would be Daniel Freed, Ambassador, thank you 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:41.879 so much for being with us at this critical moment 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.639 in Washington. I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Lines. Will have 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.040 much more ahead with our signature panel. This is Bloomberg. 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.200 You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:57.120 us live weekdays at noon and five pm. E's durn 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.680 On Apple Cockley and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business Up. 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.119 Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:06.640 us live on YouTube. 0:22:07.240 --> 0:22:10.040 Bloomberg just confirming that the joint press conference that was 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:13.240 scheduled to be this afternoon between President Trump and Ukrainian 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:17.280 President Vladimir Zelensky is canceled after an argument in the 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.480 Oval Office. Today was originally supposed to be about signing 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:23.720 a minerals deal, and no sign that is actually going 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:26.080 to take place. As President Trump has taken to true 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:30.000 Social saying he is determined that Zelensky is not ready 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.600 for peace if America is involved. He went on to 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.720 say he disrespected the United States of America and its 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:39.920 cherished Oval Office. He can come back when he's ready 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:40.359 for peace. 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:43.600 Yeah, so we've got a problem. This was a meeting 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.439 that devolved into a bit of a shouting match. Voices 0:22:46.480 --> 0:22:48.920 were raised, an argument took place, and we brought you 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:51.680 into the Oval Office for this conversation. It was really 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:56.000 once Vice President JD. Vance started to address and challenge vladimir' 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:58.720 Elenski about not being thankful enough that things started to 0:22:58.720 --> 0:23:01.520 get chippy. By the time Well Trump was speaking, he 0:23:01.640 --> 0:23:04.520 was genuinely angry and threatening to pull out of all 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:07.119 of these talks. Now you mentioned his post on truth Social. 0:23:07.520 --> 0:23:10.639 It's possible that Zelenski will talk to reporters in the 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:14.040 driveway because we're not getting a East room news conference now. 0:23:14.520 --> 0:23:17.520 If that happens, we'll bring you into the driveway to 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:20.560 hear more from him. His vehicle is still parked in 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:23.720 front of the entrance to the West wing, and we've 0:23:23.720 --> 0:23:25.800 got our panel with us. Kayleie, Rick Davis and Genie 0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:28.040 Shanzano have been listening and watching along with us. We 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:29.760 want to bring you into the oval before we get 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:32.359 their take on what just happened for an unprecedented moment 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:34.920 in politics, Let's watch and listen. 0:23:35.240 --> 0:23:37.320 Can I ask you? Sure? 0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:38.040 Yeah? 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:39.080 Yeah, okay. 0:23:39.480 --> 0:23:45.120 So he occupied it our parts, big parts of Ukraine, 0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:49.959 parts of East and Crimea. So he occupied it on 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:55.840 twenty fourteen. So during a lot of years. So I'm 0:23:55.840 --> 0:23:59.720 not speaking about Jus Biden, but those time was Obama, 0:24:00.359 --> 0:24:03.800 President Obama, then President Trump, then President Biden, now the 0:24:03.840 --> 0:24:07.760 President Trump and God bless now President Trump will stop him. 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:11.760 But during twenty fifteen, nobody stopped him. He just occupied 0:24:11.840 --> 0:24:14.800 and took He killed people. You know what the contact 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:20.360 twenty fifteen. 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:17.119 Twenty. 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:21.480 Four yea, so he kills not here, yeah, by the 0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:26.080 second right, yes, But during twenty fourteen till twenty twenty two, 0:24:27.640 --> 0:24:31.040 what the situation the same that people have been dying 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:34.760 on the contact line. Nobody stopped him. You know that 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:37.960 we had conversations with him a lot of conversations. 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:39.840 My belateral conversation. 0:24:39.760 --> 0:24:43.280 And we signed with him, me like a new president 0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:47.679 in twenty nineteen, I signed with him the deal I 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:53.119 signed with him. Mccron and mayor kill we signed ceasefire, ceasefire. 0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:56.200 All of them told me that he will never go. 0:24:57.000 --> 0:25:01.879 We signed him with guest contract quantrum. Yes, but after 0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:05.840 that he broken this is fire. He killed a people 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:10.120 and he didn't exchange prisoners. We signed the exchange. 0:25:09.640 --> 0:25:13.280 Of prisoners, but he didn't do it. What kind of 0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:16.720 diplomacy gg us speaking about? What? What do you what 0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:17.640 do you mean? 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:20.240 I'm talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to 0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:23.560 end the destruction of your country. But mister President, mister president, 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:25.959 with respect, I think it's disrespectful for you to come 0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:27.679 into the Oval Office to try to litigate this in 0:25:27.680 --> 0:25:30.000 front of the American media. Right now, you guys are 0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:33.680 going around and forcing conscripts to the front lines because 0:25:33.680 --> 0:25:36.880 you have manpower problems. You should be thanking the president 0:25:36.880 --> 0:25:39.320 for trying to bring it into this conflict. 0:25:39.119 --> 0:25:41.959 Into Ukraine that you say, what problems we have? I 0:25:42.000 --> 0:25:43.600 have been to come one. 0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:47.639 I've actually I've actually watched and seen the stories and 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:50.639 I know what happens is you bring people, you bring them. 0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:51.560 On a propaganda tour. 0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:54.919 Mister President, are do you disagree that you've had problems 0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:57.840 bringing people in your military have? And do you think 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:00.560 that it's respectful to come to the over office of 0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:03.399 the United States of America and attack the administration that 0:26:03.480 --> 0:26:06.280 is trying to trying to prevent the destruction of your country? 0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:09.000 A lot of questions. Let's start from the beginning. Sure, 0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:09.880 first to all. 0:26:10.040 --> 0:26:13.960 During the war, everybody has problems, even you. But you 0:26:14.080 --> 0:26:17.920 have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel. 0:26:17.680 --> 0:26:20.560 It in the future. God bless you. Don't know that. 0:26:20.560 --> 0:26:22.399 I'm blessed. You're un blessed. You're not. 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:25.560 Don't tell us what we're going to feel. We're trying 0:26:25.600 --> 0:26:27.800 to solve a problem. Don't tell us what we're going 0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:29.760 to feel. I'm not telling you because you're in no 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:33.600 position to dictate that. Remember this, you're in no position 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:36.359 to dictate what we're going to feel. 0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:39.160 We're going to feel very good, feel influenced. 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:41.840 We're going to feel very good and very strong, will 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:44.600 feel influenced. You're right now not in a very good position. 0:26:45.200 --> 0:26:47.840 You've allowed you to be in a very bad position. 0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:49.440 That happens to be right about. 0:26:49.240 --> 0:26:51.439 From the very beginning of the war, not in a 0:26:51.480 --> 0:26:55.160 good position. You don't have the cards right now with us. 0:26:55.200 --> 0:27:01.159 You start having right now, you pays. You're gambling with 0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:02.879 lives and millions of people. 0:27:03.320 --> 0:27:07.480 You're gambling with world War three. You're gambling with World 0:27:07.520 --> 0:27:08.160 War three. 0:27:08.840 --> 0:27:12.800 And what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country. 0:27:12.840 --> 0:27:16.280 This country. It's back to you far more than a 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:18.240 lot of people said they should have. 0:27:18.240 --> 0:27:21.000 Have you said thank you once this entire meeting. No, 0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:23.880 in this entire meeting, you said thank you. You went 0:27:23.920 --> 0:27:28.000 to Pennsylvania and campaigned for the opposition in October, offers 0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:31.040 some words of appreciation for the United States of America 0:27:31.359 --> 0:27:34.760 and the president who's trying to save your country. 0:27:35.880 --> 0:27:39.800 Please, you're seeing that if you will speak were loudly 0:27:39.880 --> 0:27:40.440 about the war. 0:27:40.680 --> 0:27:43.760 He's not speaking loudly. He's not speaking loudly. Your country 0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:47.040 is in big trouble. No, No, you've done a lot of talking. 0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:50.639 Your country is in big trouble. I know you're not winning. 0:27:50.840 --> 0:27:53.840 You're not winning this. You have a damn good chance 0:27:53.880 --> 0:27:55.639 of coming out okay, because. 0:27:55.400 --> 0:27:58.080 Of the president. Were staying Yawa country. 0:27:57.840 --> 0:28:00.520 Staying strong from the very beginning of the war, we've 0:28:00.600 --> 0:28:02.400 been alone, and we are thankful. 0:28:02.440 --> 0:28:04.880 I said, thanks, you haven't been keping it. You haven't 0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:05.320 been alone. 0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:08.680 We gave you, through this stupid president, three hundred and 0:28:08.800 --> 0:28:10.119 fifty billion dollars. 0:28:10.600 --> 0:28:13.680 We gave your military equipment. You and you men are brave, 0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:15.520 but they had to use our military one. 0:28:16.160 --> 0:28:19.520 If you didn't have our military equipment, If you didn't 0:28:19.560 --> 0:28:22.680 have our military equipment, this war would have been over 0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:23.919 in two weeks. 0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:26.879 In three days, I heard it from Puttin in three days. 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:30.280 This is how maybe less in two weeks. Of course, yes, it's. 0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:32.200 Going to be a very hard thing to do business 0:28:32.320 --> 0:28:32.560 like this. 0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:36.560 I'm gonna tell you they thank you, I said, except 0:28:36.560 --> 0:28:39.760 that they're accept the American except that there are disagreements, 0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:43.160 and let's go litigate those disagreements rather than trying to 0:28:43.200 --> 0:28:43.840 fight it out in. 0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:47.000 The American media when you're wrong. We know that you're wrong. 0:28:47.000 --> 0:28:49.080 But you see, I think it's good for the American 0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:51.880 people to see what's going on. I think it's very important. 0:28:51.880 --> 0:28:55.080 That's why I kept this going so long. You have 0:28:55.160 --> 0:28:59.000 to be thankful. You don't have the cards. You're buried there. 0:28:59.320 --> 0:29:03.160 You're people that died. You're running low on soldiers. Listen, 0:29:03.760 --> 0:29:06.680 you're running low on soldiers. It would be a damn 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:09.000 good thing. And then then you tell us I don't 0:29:09.040 --> 0:29:11.160 want to cease fire. I don't want to cease fire. 0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:12.840 I want to go and I wanted this. 0:29:13.520 --> 0:29:15.080 Look, if you. 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:17.160 Could get a ceasefire right now, I tell you you 0:29:17.280 --> 0:29:19.560 take it. So the bullets stopped flying and your mint 0:29:19.600 --> 0:29:20.560 stuff courting killed. 0:29:20.920 --> 0:29:22.600 We want to stop the war. But you're saying you 0:29:22.640 --> 0:29:24.000 don't want to see you. 0:29:24.080 --> 0:29:26.800 I want to see guarantee because you get a ceasefire 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:27.760 faster than any. 0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:30.280 Greet core people about fire. What they see. 0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:34.520 That wasn't with me, That wasn't with me. That was 0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:37.719 with a guy named Biden, who was not a smart person. 0:29:38.080 --> 0:29:41.280 That was your That was with Oba. Excuse me. 0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:43.760 That was with Obama, who gave you sheets and I 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:47.160 gave you javelins. I gave you the javelins to take 0:29:47.200 --> 0:29:51.480 out all those tanks. Obama gave you sheets. In fact, 0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:55.280 the statement is Obama gave sheets and Trump gave javelins. 0:29:56.560 --> 0:29:59.400 You got to be more thankful, because let me tell 0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:02.520 you, you don't have the cards. With us, you have the cards, 0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:04.920 but without us, you don't have any cards. 0:30:07.680 --> 0:30:11.440 And there you have it. The dispute in the Oval 0:30:11.440 --> 0:30:14.360 Office between President Trump, Vice President JD Vance, and Ukrainian 0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:17.360 President vladimir's Lensky, which has now resulted in the cancellation 0:30:17.520 --> 0:30:19.880 of a press conference that was supposed to be held 0:30:20.200 --> 0:30:23.160 at this hour with Trump and Zelensky, and Donald Trump 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:25.959 saying on true social that Zelensky can return when he 0:30:26.040 --> 0:30:29.320 is ready for peace. We are watching outside the White 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:32.440 House to see if the Ukrainian president does indeed depart 0:30:32.480 --> 0:30:34.560 and whether or not he speaks to press in the 0:30:34.600 --> 0:30:37.440 aftermath of this, given that the scheduled time at which 0:30:37.440 --> 0:30:39.160 he could have done so has now been called off. 0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:39.480 Yeah. 0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:41.120 We should note, by the way, that this is an 0:30:41.120 --> 0:30:43.360 incredibly busy day at the White House. There are scores 0:30:43.400 --> 0:30:46.760 of reporters there who also came from Europe, came from Ukraine. 0:30:46.800 --> 0:30:49.120 Not to mention, of course, the American reporters who were 0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:51.720 there for a very important day that we expected to 0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:54.400 see the signing of a minerals deal between the US 0:30:54.480 --> 0:30:57.880 and Ukraine. The briefing room is packed, The Oval Office 0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:00.600 was packed with those selected to be part of the 0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:03.440 pool today, but there will be a throng of reporters. 0:31:03.840 --> 0:31:06.360 I believe Josh Wingrove described it as a zoo when 0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:08.800 he got there earlier this morning. They're in the driveway, 0:31:08.840 --> 0:31:11.280 as you can see now on Bloomberg TV and on YouTube, 0:31:11.600 --> 0:31:14.640 the vehicle that brought Vladimir Zelenski to the White Houses 0:31:14.640 --> 0:31:16.960 waiting for him just outside the West Wing entrance. And 0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:18.640 if we were able to pull out a bit, you'd 0:31:18.640 --> 0:31:21.280 see the sticks, as they call it, the stakeout position, 0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:23.520 where microphones and cameras are waiting for him. So, Kaylee, 0:31:23.600 --> 0:31:25.800 he may well take some questions. We'll find out together. 0:31:26.080 --> 0:31:29.440 Indeed, and while we wait to find out, we turned 0:31:29.480 --> 0:31:32.080 back to our signature political panel who was with us today, 0:31:32.120 --> 0:31:35.920 Rick Davis and Jeanie Schanzy know both Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick, 0:31:35.960 --> 0:31:39.080 given what we all just listened to again, the tone, 0:31:39.120 --> 0:31:41.640 the language that these three were using with each other 0:31:41.680 --> 0:31:44.640 in the Oval Office of all places, are you surprised 0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:47.400 that things cannot move forward in the aftermath, or at 0:31:47.440 --> 0:31:49.200 least don't seem to be moving forward now? 0:31:50.320 --> 0:31:53.440 Yeah, you would think that they'd set aside the emotion 0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:57.120 that the statement referred to from the White House and 0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:03.120 regroup with their teams. I can imagine National Security Advisor 0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:07.480 Walls is in conversations with the President, Vice President and 0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:11.000 his team trying to make something out of this. You 0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:15.400 don't get these opportunities very often to have something go 0:32:15.520 --> 0:32:19.640 forward toward a constructive piece agreement like today was planned 0:32:19.640 --> 0:32:23.400 to be, and allow something like the spectacle and the 0:32:23.480 --> 0:32:28.560 Oval Office to derail it. But the statement is speaks 0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:32.600 for itself. It sounds like there's no further progress that 0:32:32.680 --> 0:32:35.480 will be had today and these teams will have to 0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:39.880 reset and find a new avenue toward diplomacy. So this 0:32:40.000 --> 0:32:43.040 is not followed along the lines of any diplomatic effort. 0:32:43.080 --> 0:32:45.960 I've ever seen lots of momentum coming into today with 0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:49.600 the meetings earlier this week with the Prime Minister of 0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:53.920 the UK and the President of France, and you would 0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:57.280 have thought that this would have resulted in a very positive, 0:32:58.160 --> 0:33:01.800 constructive outcome. Instead have high fives in the Kremlin. This 0:33:01.920 --> 0:33:04.200 is exactly what they would have wanted to see happen, 0:33:05.560 --> 0:33:08.160 and it's going to be a big step backwards in 0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:11.440 stopping the fight that Donald Trump claims is his number 0:33:11.520 --> 0:33:13.920 one priority, stop the bloodshed. 0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:19.120 High fives in the Kremlin. Genie, would it be smart 0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:23.040 politically for Zelenski to come out of that west wing 0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:26.880 entrance we're looking at right now, and take questions from reporters, 0:33:26.960 --> 0:33:29.600 try to make this case or is he dig the 0:33:29.600 --> 0:33:30.800 hole deeper for Ukraine. 0:33:32.840 --> 0:33:35.360 You know, it is such a tough call for Zelensky. 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:39.280 He had one big job to do, which was to 0:33:39.400 --> 0:33:43.160 try to mend a here to for difficult relationship with 0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:46.480 Donald Trump today. And the clip you played is so 0:33:46.560 --> 0:33:48.800 important because you can hear him at the offset of 0:33:48.840 --> 0:33:53.680 that trying, you know, fairly innocently to explain to JD. 0:33:53.800 --> 0:33:56.880 Vance and the President the history he is a board 0:33:56.960 --> 0:34:00.720 leader for three years, the history of his going back 0:34:00.760 --> 0:34:04.200 to twenty fourteen, the two Minsk Agreement signed that Vladimir 0:34:04.240 --> 0:34:07.240 Putin after invading his country did not live up to, 0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:10.760 and trying to explain to them why they cannot trust 0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:13.440 or he cannot trust Putin to live up to an 0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:16.680 agreement now, and then you hear JD. Vance come in 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:19.120 like a quite frankly, like he was talking to one 0:34:19.160 --> 0:34:23.640 of his young children or something, berating Zelenski. And then 0:34:23.680 --> 0:34:27.279 of course Donald Trump jumped right into that. And you 0:34:27.320 --> 0:34:30.279 know the reality is is that this is going to 0:34:30.320 --> 0:34:32.880 be very very tough to repair. It doesn't mean we 0:34:32.920 --> 0:34:36.719 won't get that rare earth mineral deal, but this goes 0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:39.120 so far beyond that. And I think one thing to 0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:42.960 watch for here is can Marco Rubio and Waltz, who 0:34:43.000 --> 0:34:48.400 are more interventionist in the traditional sense, walk Donald Trump 0:34:48.480 --> 0:34:51.040 off the ledge here and walk this back and get 0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:54.200 this deal back on track. I don't know if it's possible, 0:34:54.480 --> 0:34:58.040 but there is a big division in this administration between 0:34:58.440 --> 0:35:01.399 those who are non interventionists like JD. Vansho, by the way, 0:35:01.440 --> 0:35:04.200 in the Senate did not support aid for Ukraine, and 0:35:04.239 --> 0:35:06.759 those like Rubio and Waltz. And we have to see 0:35:06.760 --> 0:35:09.520 if they can bring Donald Trump back to the idea 0:35:09.640 --> 0:35:13.280 that a deal on the rare mineral or earth minerals 0:35:14.080 --> 0:35:17.080 would be give us a leg up economically, and then 0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:19.960 that would sort of, you know, lay the groundwork for 0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:22.920 them to move forward with a potentially relationship to be 0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:26.759 built on with Zelensky. But very very tough for Zolensky, 0:35:27.120 --> 0:35:30.960 three years at war, so many people dead, in displaced, 0:35:31.000 --> 0:35:35.080 to have to listen to the Vice president demanding that 0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:40.320 he be more express more gratitude and quite frankly the ahistorical, 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:45.319 you know, renditions of what has happened in his own country, well. 0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:47.799 To Genie's point, Rick be as we consider the cast 0:35:47.840 --> 0:35:50.480 of characters here beyond just the President and Vice president, 0:35:50.520 --> 0:35:53.840 Secretary of State Marco Rubio, national Security Advisor Mike Waltz, 0:35:54.239 --> 0:35:57.680 those who are more hawkish in Congress, who have long 0:35:57.719 --> 0:36:01.680 supported Ukraine. I'm thinking here, Senators Lindsay Graham and others. 0:36:01.680 --> 0:36:03.840 Do you expect a collective voice here could come to 0:36:03.960 --> 0:36:07.399 check the impulses of the President and Vice president on 0:36:07.440 --> 0:36:09.400 this one, or is it ultimately what they say that 0:36:09.560 --> 0:36:12.720 will go because President Trump is suggesting he's communicating directly 0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:13.880 with Vladimir Putin. 0:36:15.080 --> 0:36:18.480 Yeah, I think that's a very good question, Kaylee. What 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:21.440 the net effect is going to be with the President's 0:36:21.560 --> 0:36:25.759 leaders in Republican Party who are, as you describe them, 0:36:25.800 --> 0:36:30.839 more hawkish toward the Kremlin. So we've not seen much 0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:34.520 evidence of that, although many of them did come out 0:36:34.560 --> 0:36:39.480 and vocally reinforced the fact that when the President called 0:36:39.560 --> 0:36:43.520 Zelensky a dictator, they pushed back on that and made 0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:49.920 it clear that Vladimir Putin's the dictator. So that being said, 0:36:50.040 --> 0:36:54.400 they have not been. Congress has not played even a 0:36:54.440 --> 0:36:57.680 marginal role in the peace process, if you want to 0:36:57.680 --> 0:37:01.560 call it that. After today, and so I can't imagine 0:37:01.719 --> 0:37:03.600 anybody's going to want to stick their neck out too 0:37:03.640 --> 0:37:09.480 soon after this debacle to see where it goes from here. 0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:11.640 So I think everyone's going to wind up taking a 0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:16.320 big step back and assess the damage in our relationships 0:37:16.440 --> 0:37:19.960 that this will result from the relationship with our ally 0:37:20.760 --> 0:37:25.160 the Ukraine's NATO members, and what their reaction to this 0:37:25.280 --> 0:37:30.560 is going to be other members of our global partners 0:37:30.560 --> 0:37:35.120 and allies that we have who see this Ukraine war 0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:39.320 as a microcosm of conflicts around the world that could 0:37:39.400 --> 0:37:44.160 be to come. And this is obviously going to fan 0:37:44.320 --> 0:37:47.480 a lot of insecurity in every corner of the world 0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:48.640 after today. 0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:51.200 If you're just joining us on Bloomberg TV and radio, 0:37:51.200 --> 0:37:53.560 we were supposed to be bringing you a joint news 0:37:53.560 --> 0:37:56.279 conference between Trump and Zelenski at this time it has 0:37:56.320 --> 0:37:59.280 been canceled after a meeting in the Oval office turned 0:37:59.320 --> 0:38:02.640 sour voice as we're raised, an argument was had, and frankly, 0:38:02.719 --> 0:38:06.120 it's unclear exactly where this relationship is going and what 0:38:06.200 --> 0:38:09.960 the status of talks are with Ukraine and with Russia. 0:38:10.360 --> 0:38:12.920 We are spending time with our signature panel right now, 0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:15.799 Rick Davis and Genie Shanzeno as we try to get 0:38:15.840 --> 0:38:19.759 our heads around everything that just happened. Here, Rick, what 0:38:19.840 --> 0:38:23.279 takes place now that President Zelenski has left the White House, 0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:26.839 the Diplomatic Corps, national Security Advisor have to hash out 0:38:26.880 --> 0:38:29.800 what might be the next step here? What do you expect? 0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:33.640 Yeah, I'm sure the team is meeting right now in 0:38:33.680 --> 0:38:35.840 the Oval Office with the President of the United States, 0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:40.399 the National Security Advisor, and other leadership within the White House, 0:38:40.440 --> 0:38:43.680 those who attended the meeting and those who have responsibilities 0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:48.640 for the various branches of service that will be involved 0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:51.560 normally in an event like this with a country as 0:38:51.560 --> 0:38:55.640 close as we are to Ukraine. And the real question 0:38:55.760 --> 0:38:57.719 is where do you go from here? How do you 0:38:58.640 --> 0:39:02.080 look at a trajectory that Donald Trump clearly had a 0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:06.280 plan right He has been talking directly to Vladimir Putin, 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:10.719 creating an opening, massaging egos in the Kremlin to get 0:39:10.760 --> 0:39:12.719 them to a place where he thinks he could get 0:39:12.719 --> 0:39:17.760 a deal, you know, probably managing some of his public 0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:22.440 statements about Ukraine with that in mind, which has strained 0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:27.520 the relationship with Ukraine, but otherwise has resulted in what 0:39:27.560 --> 0:39:30.640 we thought was going to be the first step an 0:39:30.880 --> 0:39:34.600 agreement to give US access to rarers in order to 0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:38.200 in essence payback some of the money that we've invested 0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:43.920 in the Ukraine effort that's now shot. The real question 0:39:44.080 --> 0:39:49.239 is too to me that Vladimir Lensky and his team 0:39:49.239 --> 0:39:51.920 will meet back, probably at the hotel right across the 0:39:54.160 --> 0:39:57.399 Lafayette Plaza from the White House, you can see one 0:39:57.440 --> 0:40:00.600 from the other, and they're going to have to assess 0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:02.560 do they stay in Washington, do they get on a 0:40:02.560 --> 0:40:07.040 plane and leave. Do they continue to hold interviews and 0:40:07.680 --> 0:40:10.799 press availabilities that are currently scheduled, or do they take 0:40:10.840 --> 0:40:13.960 those off the schedule. Look, this was not a good 0:40:14.040 --> 0:40:18.239 day for either individual. You know, Vladimir Zelensky came to 0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:23.280 an Oval office visit knowing Donald Trump well and knowing 0:40:23.360 --> 0:40:27.600 that he has an explosive and erratic personality sometimes And 0:40:28.440 --> 0:40:32.239 I don't put any of this on Zelensky, but his 0:40:32.360 --> 0:40:38.520 reactions didn't result in a meeting that was constructive either, 0:40:38.800 --> 0:40:42.080 And so both teams are assessing that to this minute 0:40:42.400 --> 0:40:43.799 to determine where they go from here. 0:40:45.320 --> 0:40:47.640 I think we had all drawn this conclusion already, but 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:51.200 Bloomberg is now confirming with sources familiar that the US 0:40:51.280 --> 0:40:54.440 and Ukraine did not sign that mineral steel today. They 0:40:54.520 --> 0:40:58.680 failed to sign the agreement on Natural Resources Genie. It's 0:40:58.719 --> 0:41:00.880 also worth pointing out as we have just seen now 0:41:00.920 --> 0:41:04.920 a third world leader leaving the White House this week. 0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:08.320 This follows a meeting which by all accounts seemed to 0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:11.120 be successful between President Trump and the UK Prime Minister 0:41:11.239 --> 0:41:14.080 cair Starmer yesterday, a similar one with the French President 0:41:14.400 --> 0:41:19.359 Emmanuel Crone mcrone on Monday. Where is Europe in all 0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:22.120 of this, having just had those meetings, having those two countries, 0:41:22.120 --> 0:41:25.239 having pledged support for peacekeeping troops, if a deal is 0:41:25.320 --> 0:41:30.560 ultimately agreed to, what, how are our allies likely viewing 0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:31.520 what went down today? 0:41:32.920 --> 0:41:35.319 Well, they have to just be as stunned as we 0:41:35.400 --> 0:41:37.200 all are. I mean, this was supposed to be to 0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:39.440 your point, Kelly, the book end of this week of 0:41:39.520 --> 0:41:43.040 meetings that started off with McCrone and Starmer and seemed 0:41:43.080 --> 0:41:45.160 at least on the face of them, to have been 0:41:45.280 --> 0:41:49.120 pretty successful in terms of, you know, trying to pull 0:41:49.200 --> 0:41:53.320 Donald Trump over to the recognition that the United States 0:41:53.400 --> 0:41:57.480 has a role to play in securing the future of Ukraine. 0:41:58.239 --> 0:42:00.919 And that is obviously not you know, not at all. 0:42:00.960 --> 0:42:04.040 What we've seen go on here, and I do think 0:42:04.080 --> 0:42:07.080 we have to think long and hard now about this deal. 0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:10.800 This deal was first broached by Zelensky last year. It 0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:14.000 seems to have been Waltz and Rubio who tried to 0:42:14.120 --> 0:42:17.280 bring it up again as a means to get Donald 0:42:17.320 --> 0:42:20.359 Trump on board, because we know he likes to make 0:42:20.400 --> 0:42:22.919 deals and this would allow us to get as many 0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:25.839 rare earth minerals maybe as China, or at least move 0:42:25.880 --> 0:42:28.920 in that direction. But all along the way he has 0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:32.400 been no friend of Vladimir Zelensky or Ukraine. And of 0:42:32.400 --> 0:42:35.480 course now he has a vice president who has long 0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:39.960 expressed consternation about our support of Ukraine. So you know, 0:42:40.040 --> 0:42:42.879 as we watch this go down, I am not so 0:42:42.960 --> 0:42:46.080 sure that it is going to be resurrected quite as 0:42:46.120 --> 0:42:50.239 easily as some people think. Because for Donald Trump, this is, 0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:53.040 you know, a sense that he has long had that 0:42:53.239 --> 0:42:56.799 there are points at which Vladimir Putin has spoken that 0:42:56.920 --> 0:43:00.400 he reiterates often, and he has a very very different 0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:03.120 view of the war in Ukraine than the United States 0:43:03.120 --> 0:43:04.240 have express prior. 0:43:05.960 --> 0:43:09.480 Jenny Schanzino and Rick Davis, our signature panel Bloomberg Politics 0:43:09.480 --> 0:43:12.960 contributors on a Breaking news Friday here in Washington, d C. 0:43:13.040 --> 0:43:15.440 I'm Joe Matthew alongside Kaylee Liones. We want to bring 0:43:15.480 --> 0:43:17.279 you back to the White House right now. You just 0:43:17.320 --> 0:43:22.160 saw President Zelenski's suv with a van carrying the Ukrainian 0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:25.480 delegation head right down the driveway out of the complex, 0:43:25.480 --> 0:43:28.320 as Rick said, across Lafayette Park to the hay Adams Hotel. 0:43:28.840 --> 0:43:31.200 They drove right by our tent on the north lawn 0:43:31.239 --> 0:43:33.800 where we find Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall right now with the 0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:35.080 latest what else is going on there? 0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:38.800 Tyler, Well, Joe. Just to stark difference from when Zalinski 0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:40.960 arrived at the White House this morning, he was greeted 0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:44.040 by an honor guard. Fifty six service members carrying flags 0:43:44.080 --> 0:43:47.279 of each of the US states and territories greeted him. 0:43:47.280 --> 0:43:50.120 I watched him and President Trump have that handshake right 0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:52.319 in front of the West Wing, and then just how 0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:56.040 quickly this has evolved. I mean, waiting for Zelenski to 0:43:56.080 --> 0:43:57.880 come out here on the White House North lawn, every 0:43:57.960 --> 0:44:00.200 reporter came out. You could hear a pin drop as 0:44:00.239 --> 0:44:03.880 we waited for that door to open. Ultimately with Zelenski 0:44:03.960 --> 0:44:06.759 coming out, not answering any of our questions. We also 0:44:06.800 --> 0:44:09.840 saw the rest of his delegation pile into their vans 0:44:09.880 --> 0:44:13.879 as they slowly drove out of these Northwest gates right 0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:16.799 behind me. So big developments about what happens here next. 0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:18.960 We're waiting to see if we get any additional information 0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:21.399 from this White House, if they're going to brief US 0:44:21.440 --> 0:44:24.640 reporters about what the next steps are coming. But Bloomberg 0:44:24.680 --> 0:44:28.240 News confirming that that critical minerals deal was not signed, 0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:31.040 something that President Trump said was critical for the US 0:44:31.520 --> 0:44:34.000 to move forward when it comes to negotiations to end 0:44:34.080 --> 0:44:35.040 this war in Ukraine. 0:44:36.400 --> 0:44:38.839 All right, Bloomberg's Tyler Kendall live at the White House 0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:40.759 on a historic day. I think we can all say 0:44:40.800 --> 0:44:43.120 thank you so much. And we want to add the 0:44:43.160 --> 0:44:45.480 voice now of Kelly Griico, senior fellow with the Stimpson 0:44:45.520 --> 0:44:48.920 Centers Reimagining US Grand Strategy program with us here on 0:44:48.920 --> 0:44:51.560 Bloomberg TV and Radio. Kelly, we have been checking in 0:44:51.600 --> 0:44:54.319 with you throughout the duration of this war, which is now, 0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:56.080 of course, in its fourth year. And we should all 0:44:56.080 --> 0:44:58.000 bear in mind that the President Zelensky, who we just 0:44:58.040 --> 0:45:00.000 saw leave the White House is also leading a country 0:45:00.200 --> 0:45:04.479 who is still actively at war, and I wonder how 0:45:04.560 --> 0:45:07.719 this scene playing out in Vladimir Putin obviously going to 0:45:07.719 --> 0:45:09.719 be able to bear witness to this, impacts what will 0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:14.719 actually be happening on the ground and how things move 0:45:14.760 --> 0:45:15.560 forward from here. 0:45:17.120 --> 0:45:19.560 Yes, well, thank you for having me. I will say 0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:25.000 it's a little speechless having just watch what happened. I 0:45:25.040 --> 0:45:28.400 think the good news, if there is ending at the moment, 0:45:28.480 --> 0:45:30.480 is that just in the last few days, the Ukrainian 0:45:30.560 --> 0:45:33.800 government has said publicly that they're able to sustain themselves 0:45:33.880 --> 0:45:37.239 in terms of funds, equipment, and ammunition for at least 0:45:37.239 --> 0:45:40.040 the first half of this year, so there won't be 0:45:40.040 --> 0:45:44.239 an immediate impact on the battlefield in terms of material shortages. 0:45:44.880 --> 0:45:46.960 The only thing I can anticipate if there, for some 0:45:47.040 --> 0:45:51.200 reason the United States cut them off of information intelligence sharing. 0:45:51.800 --> 0:45:55.080 We've been providing a lot of ISR intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance 0:45:55.080 --> 0:45:58.279 information that helps the Ukrainians with targeting, and if that 0:45:58.400 --> 0:46:00.359 was to be cut off, or if they were lose 0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:03.800 access to Starlink, which of course is a Musk company, 0:46:04.040 --> 0:46:05.880 that would have a major impact. 0:46:07.400 --> 0:46:10.560 It's pretty remarkable. To your point, Kelly, I never thought 0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:12.680 we'd be talking about a moment like this, everyone we're 0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:15.520 talking with is sharing the same sentiment that you have here. 0:46:15.560 --> 0:46:17.480 It's like that moment you can't believe you're getting into 0:46:17.520 --> 0:46:20.920 a fight or was it was that stagecraft? At the 0:46:20.920 --> 0:46:24.040 same time, this is a conversation that a lot of 0:46:24.080 --> 0:46:28.600 Donald Trump's supporters were probably looking forward to hearing and seeing, 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:31.080 not fans of President Zelenski, and they don't think that 0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:32.239 he has been grateful enough. 0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:35.239 What's your thought, Yes, I mean, I will say that 0:46:35.320 --> 0:46:38.200 my interpretation of what happened is I see it as 0:46:38.280 --> 0:46:40.240 it looked to me like he was baited, To be honest, 0:46:40.920 --> 0:46:44.280 I think the administration was probably unhappy with his remarks 0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:47.959 at Munich, which was sort of a rebuke of the administration. 0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:52.000 I think they're concerned in the administration that Tolenski is 0:46:52.040 --> 0:46:57.759 an impediment to peace, that he is the hardest piece 0:46:57.760 --> 0:47:00.279 in some ways maybe to get peace, because he's he's 0:47:00.280 --> 0:47:04.080 still very stuck on ambitious goals for Ukraine that may 0:47:04.120 --> 0:47:07.280 not be realistic, and I think there's some probably desire 0:47:07.400 --> 0:47:11.440 to maybe publicly try to rain him in. And this 0:47:11.520 --> 0:47:13.080 seems to me like it was a tactic. It just 0:47:13.080 --> 0:47:15.520 seemed like sort of a setup right, because he didn't 0:47:15.520 --> 0:47:19.880 initiate this confrontation was initiated by you know, the Vice president. 0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:22.759 Zelenski did not handle this well. To be very clear, 0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:27.560 he fell for the bait, that's clear for sure. But 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:29.480 I think that, you know, how this plays out, this 0:47:29.520 --> 0:47:31.160 is a risky strategy. How this plays out with the 0:47:31.160 --> 0:47:33.759 American public is going to be very interesting because on 0:47:33.800 --> 0:47:36.759 the one hand, there's this sense that Zlenskay has maybe 0:47:36.800 --> 0:47:40.120 not been sufficiently grateful, uh, and you know that we've 0:47:40.160 --> 0:47:42.560 done a lot, but it also looks a little bit 0:47:42.640 --> 0:47:48.240 like the President is, you know, publicly humiliating a wartime 0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:51.480 democratic leader of another country. And so how that plays 0:47:51.480 --> 0:47:53.120 out it is hard to say. 0:47:53.600 --> 0:47:54.520 Uh, but this. 0:47:54.480 --> 0:47:57.240 Is a This is clearly a very bad, bad moment. 0:47:57.320 --> 0:47:59.719 And I think the real the real sign to me 0:47:59.760 --> 0:48:02.600 will be whether Zelensky stays in DC or not and 0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:04.640 there's a second meeting, or if he ends up going home. 0:48:06.120 --> 0:48:08.120 Well, I guess we're all waiting to find out. Meantime, 0:48:08.160 --> 0:48:10.640 you're seeing plenty of reaction pouring in on social media, 0:48:10.800 --> 0:48:15.719 Kelly the Prime Minister of Poland, Donald Tusk saying dear Zelensky, 0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:18.680 tagging him on Twitter, dear your Ukrainian friends, you are 0:48:18.719 --> 0:48:21.640 not alone. And with that said, Kelly, we just have 0:48:21.680 --> 0:48:23.560 a minute left here. But even if the US were 0:48:23.560 --> 0:48:25.359 to say, all right, we're done with Ukraine now all 0:48:25.360 --> 0:48:28.120 of our backing is gone, is Europe able to step 0:48:28.120 --> 0:48:29.040 in to fill that void. 0:48:30.200 --> 0:48:31.960 They can fill a lot of voids, but there are 0:48:31.960 --> 0:48:36.719 certain niche capabilities like patriot interceptors, face based capabilities that 0:48:37.040 --> 0:48:39.279 are not they're not able to replace that. Only the 0:48:39.360 --> 0:48:40.399 United States has those. 0:48:42.560 --> 0:48:45.160 It's great to have you with us, Kelly Griico, Senior Fellow, 0:48:45.160 --> 0:48:49.439 Stimson Center Reimagining US Grant Strategy Program, one of many 0:48:49.480 --> 0:48:51.839 voices of experience we've brought to you over the past 0:48:51.880 --> 0:48:54.520 couple of hours here on Bloomberg TV and Radio. 0:48:55.160 --> 0:48:57.600 Yeah, we do know that President Lensky and the Ukrainian 0:48:57.640 --> 0:48:59.880 delegation have left the White House, but they have not 0:49:00.120 --> 0:49:03.440 yet left Washington, nor have they made plans to expedite 0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:06.560 that process to our knowledge at least, though they did 0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:09.560 not at least at this time sign that natural resources 0:49:09.600 --> 0:49:11.680 deal with the United States again. That is what was 0:49:11.719 --> 0:49:14.440 supposed to happen today. We were expecting to see it 0:49:14.480 --> 0:49:16.840 in fact at this hour, and that of course is 0:49:16.880 --> 0:49:19.719 not moving forward, as President Trump is suggesting that Vladimir's 0:49:19.800 --> 0:49:22.480 Lensky today is gambling with World War three. 0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:24.920 We heard some pretty wild rhetoric together. That's what you 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:27.960 could expect on this program every day from Washington, d C. 0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:30.520 Will bring it to you unfiltered and live when we can, 0:49:30.600 --> 0:49:32.040 and we'll let you know what's going on when we 0:49:32.080 --> 0:49:38.160 get back together. Thanks for listening to the Balance of 0:49:38.200 --> 0:49:41.720 Power podcast. Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:45.040 at Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and 0:49:45.120 --> 0:49:47.719 you can find us live every weekday from Washington, DC 0:49:47.880 --> 0:49:50.600 at noontime Eastern at Bloomberg dot com.