Batman (1989) vs. The Dark Knight (2008): Episode 3

<v Speaker 1>This is a podcast from Minute Media.
<v Speaker 2>Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Shirley You Can't
<v Speaker 2>Be Serious podcast. We have talked about Batman eighty nine.
<v Speaker 2>We have talked about The Dark Night. We have talked
<v Speaker 2>about some of the other stories. But my question is
<v Speaker 2>where is the Batman.
<v Speaker 3>I can't wait to see that movie in theaters. It's
<v Speaker 3>coming out very soon.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, teaser now. We will be coming to you
<v Speaker 2>next week. Barring the end of civilization by Bain and
<v Speaker 2>his Army Legion, we will be here telling you about
<v Speaker 2>the Batman.
<v Speaker 3>I can't wait. It's gonna be amazing. Okay, d you
<v Speaker 3>look fine.
<v Speaker 2>I didn't ask. That was pretty good for you. I
<v Speaker 2>was like, okay, good job.
<v Speaker 3>We are not home watching our tights. We are talking
<v Speaker 3>about Batman eighty nine and The Dark Night. We're gonna
<v Speaker 3>finish up today with part three and then have our
<v Speaker 3>supplemental some point after this.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's jump in now.
<v Speaker 3>I want to kick off a little bit, if you
<v Speaker 3>don't mind, with a lot of interesting things happening behind
<v Speaker 3>the scenes here.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I'm at your feet, ready to listen.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, one of the cool things about Batman eighty nine.
<v Speaker 3>Let's just start with Batman eighty nine. Okay, when the
<v Speaker 3>trailer for Batman eighty nine hit theaters.
<v Speaker 2>I have given a name to my pain.
<v Speaker 4>What are you?
<v Speaker 2>I'm Batman.
<v Speaker 3>It's one of the few trailers where people would pay
<v Speaker 3>good money to sit in a crappy movie.
<v Speaker 2>I didn't have reclining seats back then, and.
<v Speaker 3>They would sit and watch the trailer for Batman, get
<v Speaker 3>totally jazzed, and they'd be like, that's it, I'm out
<v Speaker 3>of here.
<v Speaker 2>I don't have time for crap after this. There's something
<v Speaker 2>about seeing that in the theater, right, and you get
<v Speaker 2>your best previews in the theater.
<v Speaker 3>You're exactly right. I'm a huge believer in experience on
<v Speaker 3>the big screen, and there was something amazing about seeing
<v Speaker 3>that logo splashed across the screen.
<v Speaker 2>And Jack Nicholson's painted face at the very end, coming
<v Speaker 2>out of the darkness, and the way till they get
<v Speaker 2>a load of me.
<v Speaker 3>Oh my gosh, that very beginning shot of the introduction
<v Speaker 3>of Jack Nicholson's Joker, when he says Jack is dead
<v Speaker 3>my friend yea, but you can call me Joker. It's chilling.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I can remember seeing Batman eighty nine in
<v Speaker 2>the theater in California, in the same theater that what
<v Speaker 2>seven years earlier, I had snuck into and watched National Lampoon, Vacation,
<v Speaker 2>Risky Business, and Trading Places. I had gone back to
<v Speaker 2>California years later, stayed with my aunt, stayed with my cousins.
<v Speaker 2>That summer, we went and watched UHF and Batman.
<v Speaker 3>We're going to talk about a bit. The summer of
<v Speaker 3>eighty nine is one of the great movie summers of
<v Speaker 3>all time. You had Batman, you had Leath the Weapon two,
<v Speaker 3>James Bond and Indiana Jones. You had the return of
<v Speaker 3>the Ghostbusters, you had a Roadhouse, you had Honeye Shrunk
<v Speaker 3>the Kids just week after week, great movie, fun movie
<v Speaker 3>after fun movie. So that was an amazing summer. So
<v Speaker 3>one of the interesting things about the batsuit that Michael
<v Speaker 3>Keaton had to.
<v Speaker 2>Wear yep, that fit.
<v Speaker 3>He couldn't hear and he couldn't hear Jack.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, And when I say Jack, he couldn't hear Jack
<v Speaker 2>Nichols right. He also couldn't turn his head right. That's
<v Speaker 2>been a problem with the batsuit for a long time.
<v Speaker 2>The cowl just you can't turn your head or you're
<v Speaker 2>twisting that cap Pall where that happened, even with Adam West,
<v Speaker 2>even when it was just you know, like a cloth cowls.
<v Speaker 2>It's always been a problem, I think until The Dark
<v Speaker 2>Knight Rises. I think with The Dark Knight Rises, they
<v Speaker 2>did some sort of disconnect with a mask and the
<v Speaker 2>neck piece so that he could finally move his head around.
<v Speaker 3>They actually talk about it, and Christian Bale's character Bruce
<v Speaker 3>Wayne says, hey, can you make the neck move? And
<v Speaker 3>he's like, you want to be able to turn your neck?
<v Speaker 3>And he's like, well it'd sure be a lot easier
<v Speaker 3>back in the car out of the driveway, right, Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>that's right. They address that in the movie. Yeah again,
<v Speaker 3>Christopher Nolan plausibility, Okay, love it. So Michael Keaton couldn't hear,
<v Speaker 3>couldn't turn his head, and so if you watch the movie,
<v Speaker 3>he's real stiff. Every time he looks up at the helicopter,
<v Speaker 3>he does what they call the heroes lean, right.
<v Speaker 2>He turns with his shoulders hold back in the crane up.
<v Speaker 3>Michael Keaton also came up with the low, gravelly voice
<v Speaker 3>that Batman speaks.
<v Speaker 2>In, and Christian Bale obviously intensified. Right, I mean, if
<v Speaker 2>anything to poke fun of on the Dark Knight and
<v Speaker 2>that Batman trilogy. There is pants. Yeah it is. It
<v Speaker 2>is a bit extreme, but hey, it goes back to
<v Speaker 2>that you don't want to be identified as, you know,
<v Speaker 2>an eccentric playboy billionaire when you're the Batman. So not
<v Speaker 2>only do you cover your face, you also disguise your voice.
<v Speaker 3>Right, another tidbit, When Timberton saw the Batmobile for the
<v Speaker 3>first time, yeah, he was blown away. He thought, man,
<v Speaker 3>this is really cool.
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm.
<v Speaker 3>But he's like, that's awesome. Where's the door? And they're like,
<v Speaker 3>somen of them. They forgot to include the doors and
<v Speaker 3>the Batmobile.
<v Speaker 2>So that's that's where the top comes up and off.
<v Speaker 3>That's right, That's why they had to address that. So
<v Speaker 3>they had to slide up.
<v Speaker 2>I thought it all this time. I thought it was
<v Speaker 2>like an airplane deal, like that's because that's how you
<v Speaker 2>get into as fighter jet.
<v Speaker 3>No, they realized they did not put freaking doorcross the door.
<v Speaker 4>Wow.
<v Speaker 2>All right, do you remember the contest where you could
<v Speaker 2>win the Batmobile? I want to talk about that.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, all right, So in nineteen eighty nine, this kid
<v Speaker 3>named Patrick McGlenn, who is a college student.
<v Speaker 2>Steal a Batmobile. Watch MTV all day this Sunday for
<v Speaker 2>the MTV bat signal, then called the special nine hundred
<v Speaker 2>number on your screen. One of you was going to
<v Speaker 2>walk away on winter.
<v Speaker 3>He won the actual Batmobile. I remember Robert wool actually
<v Speaker 3>came on and he was the one who pitched it.
<v Speaker 2>They took out the engine, I remember he's talking about that,
<v Speaker 2>but the jet engine in the back or yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly. When he won it, he actually signed a
<v Speaker 3>contract that prevented him from profiting off its exhibition. So
<v Speaker 3>he went to one museum and they somebody stole the
<v Speaker 3>shift lever. The car was also taxable, so he had all.
<v Speaker 2>This you're telling me that the Batmobile was a manual transmission, Yes, exactly.
<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine grinding the gears?
<v Speaker 3>So anyway, after all of this, he couldn't really make
<v Speaker 3>any money off of it, and he had to insure it,
<v Speaker 3>and so we had all this IRS problems and insurance problems,
<v Speaker 3>and so he had to sell it at a basically
<v Speaker 3>a loss. So it's nothing but a pain in the butt.
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh. One of the scenes that.
<v Speaker 3>Was cut that I wanted to talk about at the
<v Speaker 3>very end of the movie. During the parade. The joker
<v Speaker 3>is like.
<v Speaker 2>Who do you trust? Right? Right, I'm giving away free money.
<v Speaker 3>Well, the money that he is giving he mentions earlier
<v Speaker 3>in the movie, Vicky Ville says, what is it that
<v Speaker 3>you want? He's like my face on the one dollar bill? Right,
<v Speaker 3>the money that he is giving away at the parade
<v Speaker 3>was counterfeit and it had jokers face on it. Nice,
<v Speaker 3>Nice saw a big trick. We mentioned that Peter Goober
<v Speaker 3>and John Peters and Tim Burton went to see The
<v Speaker 3>Fan of the Opera right right before they were getting
<v Speaker 3>ready to shoot the bell towers at Bell Tower.
<v Speaker 2>See, there's this awesome scene in the movie where the
<v Speaker 2>crowd is chasing him and he holds up this hand
<v Speaker 2>like he's got a grenade or dynamite or something that
<v Speaker 2>he's about to throw at him, and the crowd like
<v Speaker 2>pulls back in total fear, and he opens his hand
<v Speaker 2>and there's nothing in it and it just it's all
<v Speaker 2>laugh moment right before they murder him.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Well, so they went to see this play and
<v Speaker 3>they realized this is our act.
<v Speaker 2>Three, this is what we're gonna do.
<v Speaker 3>Right, And once again we talked about how this movie
<v Speaker 3>developed for ten years and they still have had Act
<v Speaker 3>three nailed down. In fact, when they were filming it,
<v Speaker 3>Jack Nicholson's like, now where am I going? Like, what's
<v Speaker 3>going on here?
<v Speaker 2>What's my motivation?
<v Speaker 3>Where am I doting?
<v Speaker 2>Ninety million dollars? Jack, ninety million dollars your motivation?
<v Speaker 3>And they were like, just go, we'll figure it out later.
<v Speaker 3>It's insane to me that this was not nailed down.
<v Speaker 3>And then also Kim Basinger, who is sleeping with John
<v Speaker 3>Peters right and what I presume is pillow talk, was like,
<v Speaker 3>you know, Vicky Vale rually needs to be there too, Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>And so they're like, yeah, whatever you say, honey, you know.
<v Speaker 2>Vicky Vale needs to be there as well, right, And
<v Speaker 2>it really doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense.
<v Speaker 3>Why is she limp dancing?
<v Speaker 2>Right? We're definitely going to talk about the problems that
<v Speaker 2>we can see as you know, full minded adults. Now,
<v Speaker 2>as a kid, I was just I was in for
<v Speaker 2>the right. It's like, it's like the end of Jaws,
<v Speaker 2>the tank blowing up is absurd. But if you've bought
<v Speaker 2>in for the first two acts, you don't care anymore.
<v Speaker 2>Just you know, show me what happens, and a fight
<v Speaker 2>in a big old bell tower. Is that's something I
<v Speaker 2>want to watch?
<v Speaker 5>Right?
<v Speaker 3>I went for it, right, I definitely went for in
<v Speaker 3>eighty nine.
<v Speaker 2>So let's real quick, while you're in the midst of this,
<v Speaker 2>let's talk about the difference in style that Batman eighty
<v Speaker 2>nine has from The Dark Knight. We've already talked about
<v Speaker 2>the fact that The Dark Knight is based in realism, right,
<v Speaker 2>and we have real cities, realistic landscapes, and Tim Burton's
<v Speaker 2>Batman is not that at all. It is definitely different
<v Speaker 2>than anything before it, and anything non Tim Burton after
<v Speaker 2>it is so unique. But I think it is a
<v Speaker 2>throwback to the German expressionist styles that were going on
<v Speaker 2>in the Silent movies, you know, before him and all
<v Speaker 2>of that came out, some of that Fritz Lang stuff
<v Speaker 2>that we talked about before, some of the other German filmmakers.
<v Speaker 2>Back then, we're doing kind of these big gothic kind
<v Speaker 2>of sets that were not realistic but engaging. You know.
<v Speaker 2>It's an amazing look that this movie has, even though
<v Speaker 2>it's not any city anybody's ever really been.
<v Speaker 3>To, right well, and they did that on purpose. They
<v Speaker 3>wanted it to feel noir. But you have I mean,
<v Speaker 3>you have cars and sort of modern vehicles. You have
<v Speaker 3>the bat wing, right, is.
<v Speaker 2>That a normal vehicle?
<v Speaker 3>IM absolutely, people flying all the time.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but they wanted it to be usually when the
<v Speaker 2>when the moon is full.
<v Speaker 3>We're going to get the problems here in a second.
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, so they wanted it to be out of time,
<v Speaker 3>you know. And and I think that's one of the
<v Speaker 3>reasons why it does stand up is it's timeless.
<v Speaker 2>It is timeless.
<v Speaker 3>One of the tidbits I want to talk to you
<v Speaker 3>about now is Jack Nicholson had specific requirements for his
<v Speaker 3>filming day. Okay, so number one, you want to have
<v Speaker 3>approven on all the latex makeup, joker stuff.
<v Speaker 2>Crap, crap, crap.
<v Speaker 3>Oh, he actually said that he is allergic to the
<v Speaker 3>stuff that they apply the latex to, so that do
<v Speaker 3>something creative with that. He also had a very strict
<v Speaker 3>scheduling policy that he got to watch all the Laker games.
<v Speaker 2>And we know what a big Laker fan was, Yeah,
<v Speaker 2>and I guess, I mean he had to watch him
<v Speaker 2>on TV. He's usually court sided if he can be,
<v Speaker 2>but he must, I mean, he's they.
<v Speaker 3>Had to work around a Lakers schedule, yes, right, Okay,
<v Speaker 3>I know we're going to talk about problems later. Kim
<v Speaker 3>Basinger screams twenty three times during Batman.
<v Speaker 2>It is a bit much. It's it's a bit munch.
<v Speaker 3>It's every time you turn around she sees the Joker,
<v Speaker 3>she screams.
<v Speaker 2>She got a good scream. But I get it. You know,
<v Speaker 2>we heard it.
<v Speaker 3>We heard it again and again.
<v Speaker 2>See Okay.
<v Speaker 3>I want to point out that our buddy William Hootkins
<v Speaker 3>played Lieutenant Eckhart.
<v Speaker 2>So this is an important note because this came up
<v Speaker 2>in our one of our very first episodes when we
<v Speaker 2>talked about Raiders of the Lost Arc versus Back in
<v Speaker 2>the Future, and we talked about the fact that the
<v Speaker 2>government man in Raiders of the Lost Arc had also
<v Speaker 2>been in Star Wars, and I was like, Wow, this
<v Speaker 2>guy has been in like two of the biggest blockbusters
<v Speaker 2>of all time. And at that moment you said, well
<v Speaker 2>three if you include Batman, and I was like, oh
<v Speaker 2>my gosh, he is the detective.
<v Speaker 3>How about this guy's career. Huh, yeah, he plays Porkins.
<v Speaker 2>Porkins and Star.
<v Speaker 3>Wars unfortunate name for him.
<v Speaker 2>Sure, he was a heavier guy, so he.
<v Speaker 3>Flew one of the X Wings and was killed in
<v Speaker 3>the Battle of the Death Star.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he trimmed up a little bit by the time
<v Speaker 2>Raiders came around. Yeah, and then he gained it all back.
<v Speaker 2>By the time came.
<v Speaker 3>He was one of the top Men government Agent guys
<v Speaker 3>and Raiders Luster top Men. He was also with Flash Gordon,
<v Speaker 3>he was Munson.
<v Speaker 2>That's right, he was an assistant. They got smashed. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>I forgot all about that. That is right.
<v Speaker 3>He's also in Superman four.
<v Speaker 2>Oh well, which, guys, I forgot about that, But we
<v Speaker 2>are going to be talking about that this summer. Yeah. Well,
<v Speaker 2>I think that's the fourth time we've plugged that in
<v Speaker 2>the series.
<v Speaker 3>So our buddy William Hookins.
<v Speaker 2>Get it up. Yeah, from down in Texas, but moved
<v Speaker 2>over to England and became an actor out there.
<v Speaker 3>Interestingly, Wow, good for him.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, here's some Hollywood dirt for you that I thought
<v Speaker 3>was really interesting. Okay, So there was this love triangle
<v Speaker 3>going on okay on set Batman Okay, okay, Yeah, we
<v Speaker 3>talked about how Michael Keaton was dating Michelle Pfeiffer at
<v Speaker 3>the time, right, But you know, you can be with
<v Speaker 3>the one you love, or you can love the one
<v Speaker 3>you're with right.
<v Speaker 2>So we still doesn't that.
<v Speaker 3>So Michael Keaton started to pursue kimbasing her huh, And
<v Speaker 3>there was a bit of a power struggle over Kimbasinger's affections. Sure,
<v Speaker 3>she ended up landing in John Peters bed. We talked
<v Speaker 3>about that, right, Okay, that made Michael Keaton mad because
<v Speaker 3>I mean, of course he's Batman. Yeah, but John Peters
<v Speaker 3>is the producer, right, Okay, right now. Then it doesn't
<v Speaker 3>stop there though.
<v Speaker 2>Okay.
<v Speaker 3>She ended up in a whirlwind fanatical romance with the
<v Speaker 3>Purple One himself. Prince Stop the Princes. The song bat
<v Speaker 3>Dance apparently gets her rolling. She moved to Minneapolis to
<v Speaker 3>be with it.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, what wait a minute, she's on the rise to
<v Speaker 2>start them. She's just done the biggest blockbuster ever in history,
<v Speaker 2>and she moved away from Hollywood.
<v Speaker 3>She moves to Minneapolis to freaking Pisley Park.
<v Speaker 2>Paisley Park.
<v Speaker 3>She moves to Paisley Park. Her family gets so concerned
<v Speaker 3>that she's joined a colt. They show up, Purple that's it,
<v Speaker 3>that's it, So Princess whisked her away. They show up
<v Speaker 3>when they know he's not there to rescue her from
<v Speaker 3>the Purple one himself.
<v Speaker 2>Did they rescue her?
<v Speaker 3>I guess so, because she married married Alec Baldwin one
<v Speaker 3>year later.
<v Speaker 2>Right, it's crazy to me who is also in the
<v Speaker 2>running to be Batman? I think you mentioned that's exactly right.
<v Speaker 3>One of the things I want to discuss one more time.
<v Speaker 3>And we talked about this, I think in episode one,
<v Speaker 3>the amount of money that Jack Nicholson.
<v Speaker 2>Made ninety million dollars.
<v Speaker 3>Ninety million dollars, so he got six million dollars from
<v Speaker 3>the movie, and he got a cut of the profits,
<v Speaker 3>and he got a cut of the.
<v Speaker 2>Toy action merchandising. Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>And it wasn't just for Batman, it was for Batman,
<v Speaker 3>Batman Returns and Batman Forever. Do you remember the McDonald's
<v Speaker 3>Batman Returns glasses?
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, I do. Did you have the whole set?
<v Speaker 3>I think so. I don't have it anymore. But the
<v Speaker 3>lid to those glasses was a bat disc, a glow
<v Speaker 3>in the dark bad disc.
<v Speaker 2>The lid to the number that remember that, I do. Wow,
<v Speaker 2>that's awesome, by the way, thirty years ago this year, right, yes,
<v Speaker 2>n ninety two. Yeah, because I told you I watched
<v Speaker 2>The Birdman before and it talks about the fact that
<v Speaker 2>the last movie he did, he didn't do Birdman for
<v Speaker 2>the last time he was the Birdman was in nineteen
<v Speaker 2>ninety two, which is the last time he was the
<v Speaker 2>Batman too.
<v Speaker 3>I did like how those lined up a little bit.
<v Speaker 2>Until this year. And if you haven't seen the preview
<v Speaker 2>for the Flash, you need to go watch it, and
<v Speaker 2>you need to listen to who's talking. It's exciting.
<v Speaker 3>We're going to compare the Batman here in just a second. Yeah, okay,
<v Speaker 3>a couple more tidbits for you before we move on.
<v Speaker 3>The original line where the guy's.
<v Speaker 2>Like, who are you?
<v Speaker 3>Yes, and he says I'm Batman.
<v Speaker 2>Yes.
<v Speaker 3>The script line was apparently originally I'm Batman m efor.
<v Speaker 2>Okay. I was like, who is he going to say?
<v Speaker 2>He is? I want Samuel L. Jackson apparently.
<v Speaker 3>And last night here Christopher Nolan was a fan of
<v Speaker 3>Batman eighty nine.
<v Speaker 2>That's because he was born in nineteen seventy man. He
<v Speaker 2>grew up with it, just like we did. Good for him.
<v Speaker 2>This is and that's the great thing about him. He
<v Speaker 2>is a guy who loves artistic, beautiful films, but he
<v Speaker 2>also is a guy who loves action packed thrillers. He
<v Speaker 2>grew up with Back to the Future, he grew up
<v Speaker 2>with Raiders of the Lost Art, he grew up with Batman,
<v Speaker 2>which is how he takes an action movie and turns
<v Speaker 2>it into a film. We need to talk about that.
<v Speaker 3>Let's go and dive into that right now.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So whenever they came to him, they start talking
<v Speaker 2>to him. Michael Uslan, who we've talked about, is the guy, right,
<v Speaker 2>He's that guy who's taught the college course. He's the
<v Speaker 2>guy who started Batfilms, inc. He's the guy who's been
<v Speaker 2>a producer on every single one of these. He says,
<v Speaker 2>at that moment, he realized that Batman could be more
<v Speaker 2>than a movie. It could be a film, and it
<v Speaker 2>was Yeah, Batman begins a film, The Dark Knight a film,
<v Speaker 2>The Dark Knight rises, still a film, just a film
<v Speaker 2>that also is filled with action and adventure. I like
<v Speaker 2>how I mean.
<v Speaker 3>I've seen interviews with Christopher Nolan. He's talking about how
<v Speaker 3>important the Spielberg and Lucas Zamecha is back in the Future,
<v Speaker 3>all of those movies. He talks about how they had
<v Speaker 3>such high quality and that's what he wanted to make.
<v Speaker 3>All Right, I've got a few tidbits from the Dark
<v Speaker 3>Knight I want.
<v Speaker 2>To bring up.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, okay, yep, let's talk about Heath Ledger's voice for
<v Speaker 3>a second. Okay, we talked about how Heath Ledger is Australian.
<v Speaker 3>There's no hint of an accent, and he's got that
<v Speaker 3>low kind of it's really odd voice, yeah, disturbing right right.
<v Speaker 3>You know what else he did the prosthetic Glasgow smile. Yes,
<v Speaker 3>would cause him to kind of lick his lips a
<v Speaker 3>little bit.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if it would break easily, and so he had
<v Speaker 2>to lick his lips to keep it from coming off,
<v Speaker 2>which then became a character trait of the Joker.
<v Speaker 3>It's really cool, yeah, and it fits his whole absolutely.
<v Speaker 3>It's just really neat.
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. Yeah. I'll throw something in here, okay, okay.
<v Speaker 3>The bat cycle, that pod, the one that jets out
<v Speaker 3>of the Yes.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So that again was a product of Nathan Crowley,
<v Speaker 2>the guy who had thrown together the Humvey and the
<v Speaker 2>seventies Lamborghini. Uh huh. He did that, but he built
<v Speaker 2>six of them because they're going to crash.
<v Speaker 3>I don't know if we talked about this or not,
<v Speaker 3>but Aaron Eckart based his performance on Bobby Kennedy. Harvey
<v Speaker 3>Dent is supposed to be more or less Bobby Kennedy, Okay,
<v Speaker 3>very much in the law, very much the American.
<v Speaker 2>Hero refusing to be corrupted.
<v Speaker 3>Yep, that's exactly right. Yeah, I thought that was really cool.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>The skyhook that they used to extract the guy in
<v Speaker 3>Hong Kong and Batman, yeah, is an actual thing.
<v Speaker 2>That was a military technology that they decided not to
<v Speaker 2>really use.
<v Speaker 3>They do use it at the end of Thunderball in
<v Speaker 3>James Bond. Oh nice, if you'll flash back to our
<v Speaker 3>James Bond Thunderball and never say Never again Octopus to
<v Speaker 3>the episode.
<v Speaker 2>As I understand if the film scenes that they shot
<v Speaker 2>in Hong Kong were more difficult than they anticipated. Basically,
<v Speaker 2>they said it was an absolute nightmare to try to
<v Speaker 2>deal with the government there because they thought there would
<v Speaker 2>be too much noise. They put all kinds of restrictions
<v Speaker 2>on them. They even asked the residents one night, hey,
<v Speaker 2>will you just leave your lights on tonight? It'll create
<v Speaker 2>a better picture on the film. And they were like,
<v Speaker 2>now you're causing us to waste energy, okay, And so
<v Speaker 2>they had to see gi some stuff that they wouldn't
<v Speaker 2>have normally done. But like that dive that he does,
<v Speaker 2>the bat dive and when he's in Hong Kong, that
<v Speaker 2>one had to be CGID because they just couldn't. They
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't let them have the helicopters over because it would
<v Speaker 2>create too much noise.
<v Speaker 3>People were up.
<v Speaker 2>Tied over there.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, okay, I want to talk to you about. Have
<v Speaker 3>you ever been to Turkey, the country Turkey?
<v Speaker 2>I have not.
<v Speaker 3>There's a city over there called Buttman Okay, not Buttman, Buttman,
<v Speaker 3>but it's it's yes, yes, And they sued Warner Brothers yep,
<v Speaker 3>because they were like, that's.
<v Speaker 2>The name of our city. You can't use that copyright.
<v Speaker 2>Come on, yeah, they yeah, they not only sue them,
<v Speaker 2>they like they blamed this increase in suicide rates and
<v Speaker 2>crime on the movie and the fact that the movie
<v Speaker 2>used the name of the city. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.
<v Speaker 3>Yes, Okay, here's something I want to point out. Keith
<v Speaker 3>Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix both won Oscars for performing the same.
<v Speaker 2>Character, right joker.
<v Speaker 3>Yes, can you name the other time in history that happened?
<v Speaker 2>Two people one an oscar for playing the same character. Gosh,
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I should know this, but I don't
<v Speaker 2>give it to me.
<v Speaker 3>It is Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro playing Fido Corleone.
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, how was it as a bit of a cheat?
<v Speaker 2>There's no reboot. There was no reboot there that was okay.
<v Speaker 2>But that's that's that's good. I go, all right, good, Well,
<v Speaker 2>you are.
<v Speaker 3>Going to be covering The Godfather versus Godfather Too versus Goodfellas, right,
<v Speaker 3>which I think is perfect.
<v Speaker 2>Once again, we have this divine thing watching out for
<v Speaker 2>us and how we do these episodes. The next three
<v Speaker 2>movies that we're going to cover are The Godfather, Happy
<v Speaker 2>fiftieth Anniversary, The Godfather Too, and Goodfellas. But as it
<v Speaker 2>turns out, Batman when he began was at the time
<v Speaker 2>of organized crime also rising to power, and so a
<v Speaker 2>lot of the guys that Batman fought were these mobsters. Gangsters, yeah, mafia, right,
<v Speaker 2>That's who Batman was fighting in the early comic books.
<v Speaker 2>And looking at the Batman, I think they're going to
<v Speaker 2>throw back to that. Oswald Copperpot has a definite gangster
<v Speaker 2>feel about him, and it really looks like a story
<v Speaker 2>about the corruption of government, which you see all over
<v Speaker 2>the place in the Godfather, the corruption of government officials
<v Speaker 2>by organized crime.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Batman versus Michael Corleone discuss musk yourselves, all right,
<v Speaker 3>So a couple other tidbits I don't want to forget. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>there is actually very little blood in.
<v Speaker 2>The Dark Night, right, you get one.
<v Speaker 3>I think Commissioner Gordon get shot in the back when
<v Speaker 3>he saves the Mayor's life.
<v Speaker 2>I don't think you see any blood there, but yes,
<v Speaker 2>I think there's a squib squib one sip one squib predator.
<v Speaker 3>Not not predator, that's right. So yeah, very little blood.
<v Speaker 3>But it's still a very tense movie. Yeah, and violent
<v Speaker 3>at times. Right we saw, you know, the pencil and
<v Speaker 3>the eyeball trick da No blood, no blood, but still
<v Speaker 3>very disturbing.
<v Speaker 2>It's intense. You can you can create the empathetic feeling
<v Speaker 2>of pain without having to use blood. For sure.
<v Speaker 3>When Christian Bale and Heath Ledger were together in that
<v Speaker 3>interrogation scene, yeah, Heath Ledger is like, I really want
<v Speaker 3>you to hit me.
<v Speaker 2>Uh huh, I want you to hit me as hard
<v Speaker 2>as you can. Ah, you hit me in the ear.
<v Speaker 2>So I would seriously question the wisdom in asking Christian
<v Speaker 2>Bale to hit you as hard as he can, because
<v Speaker 2>number one, we know how much muscle he put on
<v Speaker 2>for this movie. But number two, he also trained in
<v Speaker 2>the Kisi fighting method to perform all of the stunts.
<v Speaker 2>So he's not only big and strong, he's a be
<v Speaker 2>a fighter now because of his training. But it does
<v Speaker 2>look like it hurts when he slams his head into
<v Speaker 2>the table. Some get all fuzzy killing you. What would
<v Speaker 2>I do without you? You complete me? So good man,
<v Speaker 2>it's spot off. And that's another thing, another thing just
<v Speaker 2>about movies. A great movie has a villain that is
<v Speaker 2>one that with just a little bit of twisting, the
<v Speaker 2>hero could become the villain, just like Raiders of the
<v Speaker 2>Lost Stark, with a little push, you two could step
<v Speaker 2>into the dark. Right now, you're getting nasty. But as
<v Speaker 2>it turns out, that becomes a trope that everybody uses.
<v Speaker 2>So you you're just a reflection of me, is just
<v Speaker 2>a thing that you hear all the time. But to
<v Speaker 2>say to take a line from Jerry Maguire of all
<v Speaker 2>places and say you complete me as a way to
<v Speaker 2>say the same thing, was a stroke of brilliance.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I want to talk about the boats with the
<v Speaker 3>you know, regular people going to work and the boat
<v Speaker 3>with the prisoners. And that's the final test of Gotham City. Right,
<v Speaker 3>both boats are rigged to explode, and all they have
<v Speaker 3>to do is push the switch, right, and ultimately the
<v Speaker 3>people of Gotham defeat the Joker themselves because nobody pushes
<v Speaker 3>the button. Now, then, Christopher Nolan has said that whoever
<v Speaker 3>pushed the button would have actually detonated their own boat.
<v Speaker 3>Of course, because the joker, it's the joker, right, that's
<v Speaker 3>what he does, right, He's a two faced if you will.
<v Speaker 3>But I thought that was interesting because I was one
<v Speaker 3>of those people that was like, I don't know, how
<v Speaker 3>do I feel about this? When I push the button?
<v Speaker 2>Everybody did. Everybody in that scene asked themselves the question
<v Speaker 2>and answered it what would I do in the situation?
<v Speaker 3>By the way, Michael Keaton huge fan of The Dark Knight.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, Now I heard Jack Nicholson talk about it,
<v Speaker 2>and he was not a huge fan.
<v Speaker 3>Oh really what he's saying, Well.
<v Speaker 2>He said that he didn't think that they got it right.
<v Speaker 2>He was like Tim Burton had the right idea, But
<v Speaker 2>he also sounded like a guy whose financial welfare was
<v Speaker 2>tied to the original movies.
<v Speaker 3>He's a little bit married to Tim Burton.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, let's talk about the scores, the soundtracks, the
<v Speaker 2>amazing bands and artists of the eighties who are involved
<v Speaker 2>in both of these movies. Okay, So first, obviously we
<v Speaker 2>have Batman eighty nine, we have a young film composer,
<v Speaker 2>and we have prints two different people. Yeah right, yep.
<v Speaker 2>Now that young film composer, his name has become prominent
<v Speaker 2>since then. Oh yeah, And at the time, he was
<v Speaker 2>just coming into film production out of a band that
<v Speaker 2>you might have heard of called Oingo Boingo. Yeah, he
<v Speaker 2>had started off with his brother. They did weird, avant
<v Speaker 2>garde stuff. They The rule of that his brother made,
<v Speaker 2>and this was back when it was called the Mystic
<v Speaker 2>Knights of the Oingo Boingo was we are not going
<v Speaker 2>to play anything contemporary. They did not play rock and roll,
<v Speaker 2>they did not play disco. They were playing like circus
<v Speaker 2>music and stuff from the forties and fifties. Right.
<v Speaker 5>It's weird, it's really weird.
<v Speaker 2>I really enjoy it, but it is not something that
<v Speaker 2>you're going to rock your head to. It's just kind
<v Speaker 2>of fun, goofy music, which I say, Danny elfman, you think. Okay, yeah,
<v Speaker 2>he was big adventure right, it's fun kind of circus
<v Speaker 2>like music. So he has this band and his brother
<v Speaker 2>decides to leave. He becomes the lead member of the band.
<v Speaker 2>He gets he said, they had so much stuff that
<v Speaker 2>it required a semitruck just to move all of their
<v Speaker 2>stuff because it was this big, you know, theater like production.
<v Speaker 2>So he whittled down their stuff, and he whittled down
<v Speaker 2>the band, and it just became Oingo Boingo and they
<v Speaker 2>started having music in quite a few different movies. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>so starting in nineteen eighty, who had left the band
<v Speaker 2>did this really really weird and very inappropriate movie called
<v Speaker 2>Forbidden Zone, and so he had a hand in the
<v Speaker 2>music for that. But then Oingo Boingo had songs in
<v Speaker 2>Chips Chips, this TV series, Yes, the Last American Virgin,
<v Speaker 2>Fast Times at Ridgemont High, sixteen Candles, Bachelor Party, Beverly
<v Speaker 2>Hills Cop and the one that we all know and
<v Speaker 2>you mentioned back to School earlier. But before that, he
<v Speaker 2>had weird science.
<v Speaker 1>From my heart and from my hand.
<v Speaker 4>Why don't people understand my intentions?
<v Speaker 2>Title? Right? John Hughes said, Hey, I'm doing this movie
<v Speaker 2>love for you to do a song for what's it
<v Speaker 2>called Weird Science. He wrote the lyrics on the way home,
<v Speaker 2>had the melody by the time he got home to
<v Speaker 2>make that song.
<v Speaker 3>That's fantastic.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so Texas Chainsaw Masker two by the way, and
<v Speaker 2>something Wild, which we've mentioned a few times, Summer School,
<v Speaker 2>which you love. I did, and then he it's asked
<v Speaker 2>to compose with Tim Burton in his movies, and so
<v Speaker 2>we get Peevey's Big Adventure, fantastic movie, fantastic score, but
<v Speaker 2>it's comedy, right, it's goofy beetlejuice, very wacky, fantastic score,
<v Speaker 2>but again dark comedy. Right, that's it. Right now, we're
<v Speaker 2>going to give you a superhero movie based on a
<v Speaker 2>character who's been around at that point for fifty years.
<v Speaker 2>That's a big that's a big as. It's just a
<v Speaker 2>big ask. Right. Do you think he delivered?
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely?
<v Speaker 2>I think he delivered. What do you think of this
<v Speaker 2>sound dragon?
<v Speaker 3>Well, so I know that when he sat down with
<v Speaker 3>John Peters, Danny Elfman really didn't know how to do
<v Speaker 3>this where he present to the producer and so they're
<v Speaker 3>sitting there and Danny Elfman's like, well, here's what I
<v Speaker 3>think about when they're having to shootout you and he's
<v Speaker 3>playing this, He's like, well, here's what I think about
<v Speaker 3>when the joker walks out of the room, and Tim
<v Speaker 3>Burn's like, play the march. Play the march. Yeah.
<v Speaker 2>John Peters is not thinking he's going to make it.
<v Speaker 3>Not impressed at all now, So he plays the wonderful,
<v Speaker 3>full on Batman theme, and John Peters is life, that's it.
<v Speaker 2>You nailed it.
<v Speaker 3>I'm fully on board. Once he heard the Batman march, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>he was like, let's do this.
<v Speaker 2>You're hired. Okay. So his the Batman theme by Danny
<v Speaker 2>Elfman is really just five notes. It's five notes, okay.
<v Speaker 2>It is B C sharp d g F sharp, and
<v Speaker 2>you get that over and over from different instruments, in
<v Speaker 2>different speeds, in different styles, but you get that theme
<v Speaker 2>all over the place. And then a lot of times
<v Speaker 2>he goes and he goes in to reach kind of
<v Speaker 2>a period point. He'll end it with this C sharp
<v Speaker 2>major chord and it's it kind of puts an exclamation
<v Speaker 2>point at the end of that theme that you've had
<v Speaker 2>over and over again. But there is a definite Batman
<v Speaker 2>theme that means just those five notes. But it's something
<v Speaker 2>that he took and molded in so many different ways
<v Speaker 2>that it played perfectly no matter whether the Batman was
<v Speaker 2>in a huge fight with the Joker or he's retrospective
<v Speaker 2>about his life as the Batman and his relationship with
<v Speaker 2>Vicky Vale. It was all those same five notes in
<v Speaker 2>different ways.
<v Speaker 3>You ready to talk about Prince?
<v Speaker 2>Oh? I got a live one here, Oh.
<v Speaker 3>I got a live one here.
<v Speaker 2>Stop the presence.
<v Speaker 3>This town needs an anemo. Let's talk about Prince for
<v Speaker 3>a second.
<v Speaker 2>Okay.
<v Speaker 3>So Warner Brothers went to John Peters and said, listen,
<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of money in music right now. We
<v Speaker 3>need some contemporary music to go along with this soundtrack.
<v Speaker 3>John Peters is like, okay. They talked about Michael Jackson,
<v Speaker 3>they talked about George Michael, they kicked it around. Well
<v Speaker 3>who they settle on?
<v Speaker 2>Prince?
<v Speaker 3>Sure. So Tim Burton's like, I don't really think we
<v Speaker 3>need Prince. He's like, no, you don't understand. We're having Prince.
<v Speaker 2>This is not an ask, this is a tell.
<v Speaker 3>I'm telling you Prince is going to be produced some
<v Speaker 3>songs for the movie.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>So Tim Burton was not a fan, but Prince delivered,
<v Speaker 3>mostly for The Joker. You have the Party Man song
<v Speaker 3>that he plays at the museum where Joker is, you know,
<v Speaker 3>messing up all the art and painting stuff, which Jack
<v Speaker 3>Nicholson's a big art fan. He felt kind of uncomfortable
<v Speaker 3>with that scene.
<v Speaker 2>Right.
<v Speaker 3>And then Prince actually produced the song Trust that Joker
<v Speaker 3>plays during the parade.
<v Speaker 2>Right, which we mentioned they had a song from Purple
<v Speaker 2>Rain in that spot.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was Baby I'm a Star exactly.
<v Speaker 2>And if you listen to those two songs next to
<v Speaker 2>each other, you go, oh, yeah, well it's the same rhythm.
<v Speaker 2>It's the exact same rhythm. They sound very similar even, huh.
<v Speaker 3>That summer we had the number one song bat Dance,
<v Speaker 3>which is maybe the most ludicrous number one song of
<v Speaker 3>all time. But I was swept.
<v Speaker 2>Away in it.
<v Speaker 3>Of course, they don't play it in the movie at all.
<v Speaker 2>No, it's not in the movie. They actually take the
<v Speaker 2>movie and play it in the song. It's all these
<v Speaker 2>clips and sound fights and quotes from Vicky Vale's scream
<v Speaker 2>even shows up in the song. And then you've got
<v Speaker 2>the video where he's dressed up as both the Joker
<v Speaker 2>and Batman, as though he is two face. Now, that
<v Speaker 2>was a brilliant.
<v Speaker 3>Decision, was That probably is what sealed the deal with
<v Speaker 3>Kim Basinger.
<v Speaker 2>That song is both ways.
<v Speaker 3>That song is so ridiculous. But I had the KA single.
<v Speaker 2>I had the KA single, You had the K single.
<v Speaker 3>Yes awesome. I'm just gonna throw this out there. One
<v Speaker 3>more song on that soundtrack that I really like is
<v Speaker 3>called the Arms of Oryan. It's a very soft song,
<v Speaker 3>but it's him and Sheena Easton flashback to our Sign
<v Speaker 3>of the Times episode where they sang you got.
<v Speaker 2>To look together. Yep.
<v Speaker 3>But I think that that's the best song on the soundtrack.
<v Speaker 2>To get the little all the world, I've listened to
<v Speaker 2>that soundtrack, I really enjoyed it. It's a great if
<v Speaker 2>your Prince fan, it is a great bunch of songs.
<v Speaker 2>But you're right, they only really used to ish maybe
<v Speaker 2>three songs in the whole movie of off of that soundtrack.
<v Speaker 2>He just kind of made the He took a couple
<v Speaker 2>of songs and made an album out of the rest
<v Speaker 2>of it. Right. But as it turned out, everybody who
<v Speaker 2>were very familiar with Prince knew he was doing the soundtrack,
<v Speaker 2>and they thought he had composed all of the score
<v Speaker 2>as well, and so then they started doing news stories
<v Speaker 2>where they're interviewing Danny Elfman and he's like, yet, that's me,
<v Speaker 2>that's not Prince. And they told me that Prince was
<v Speaker 2>going to be involved and do songs, which I don't
<v Speaker 2>have any problem with that. I'm excited. I love Prince's music.
<v Speaker 2>But when he starts getting credit for my music, then
<v Speaker 2>I that's where I kind of draw the line. I'm
<v Speaker 2>not really comfortable with that.
<v Speaker 3>One more thing about Prince's music.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's a.
<v Speaker 3>Song on that soundtrack called Scandalous. They have an extended
<v Speaker 3>version of Scandalous where Kim Basinger and Prince can be
<v Speaker 3>heard tristing in the studio, tristing, tristing, tristing.
<v Speaker 2>Is that what Axel roast?
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's exactly what is a trist Yes, when Axel
<v Speaker 3>rose nail dead girl in the studio in Rock and Queen, you.
<v Speaker 2>Have the same thing. Oh my gosh. Yes, Okay, So
<v Speaker 2>where can you hear? This scandalous version of scandalis on
<v Speaker 2>the internet and Kim Basinger is singing on she's rapping,
<v Speaker 2>She's rapping, She's rapping. Kim Basinger is rapping. Yeah, this
<v Speaker 2>is something I get it, all right, So shall we
<v Speaker 2>move on to the Dark Knight. Yes, okay, so I
<v Speaker 2>said three artists and bands of the eighties. We've mentioned Prince,
<v Speaker 2>We've mentioned Olingo Boingo, and you know who. The third
<v Speaker 2>artist that we of the eighties that we should bring
<v Speaker 2>up is the Buggles. The Buggles, yes, video killed the
<v Speaker 2>Radio Star. And why is that involved in what we're
<v Speaker 2>talking about? Because Hans Zimmer used to be a member
<v Speaker 2>of the Bugle. He played the keyboards for the Buggles. Yes,
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure if you can see him in the
<v Speaker 2>video or not, but yes, he was a member of
<v Speaker 2>the Buggles. So both the composer for Batman eight nine
<v Speaker 2>and the composer for the Dark Knight trilogy came from
<v Speaker 2>bands at the eighties.
<v Speaker 3>That's unbelievable.
<v Speaker 2>So Hans Zimmer, I mean, he's one of the most
<v Speaker 2>prolific composers in existence. I mean it's he's probably number two,
<v Speaker 2>right under John Williams. Right. I mean, you can you
<v Speaker 2>can throw some other names around that are close, but
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that anybody has had his hands on
<v Speaker 2>as much stuff in the last twenty years as Hans
<v Speaker 2>Zimmer has. Starting with Gladdie, I mean he did plenty
<v Speaker 2>before that, but there, I mean movie.
<v Speaker 3>The Gladiator soundtrack is phenomenal.
<v Speaker 2>It is, it's fantastic, and I love Hans Zimmer's music,
<v Speaker 2>but it is not anything not anything like Danny Alfhon's music,
<v Speaker 2>right you you literally this is I know this is
<v Speaker 2>gonna sound crazy. There's basically a two note theme for
<v Speaker 2>Batman in The Dark Night. You hear it twice in
<v Speaker 2>the whole movie. Okay, for the I mean twice at
<v Speaker 2>the end of the movie, like when they roll the credits,
<v Speaker 2>you'll hear it again. But as the action goes on
<v Speaker 2>in the movie, you only hear the Batman theme twice.
<v Speaker 2>The rest of it is all orchestration with and I'm
<v Speaker 2>gonna throw a you know, the soundtrack an ostinato, which
<v Speaker 2>is a repeating phrase, and that's what Hans Zimmer is
<v Speaker 2>an expert at is this repeating, repeating phrase and still
<v Speaker 2>just a couple of notes, just a couple of notes.
<v Speaker 2>But the other composer on this movie is a guy
<v Speaker 2>named James Newton Howard, who is also hugely prolific. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>so James Newton Howard also has a huge prolific history.
<v Speaker 2>He has done basically all of The m Night Sheymalan movies,
<v Speaker 2>did the sixth sense signs all of those. He did Unbreakable,
<v Speaker 2>he did Batman Begins, he did King Kong, he did
<v Speaker 2>Freedom Land. He's a very prolific composer as well. And
<v Speaker 2>he and Hans Zimmer worked together on the score for
<v Speaker 2>the Dark Knight trilogy, right, And they had initially composed
<v Speaker 2>a very intricate and multi note theme for Batman and
<v Speaker 2>for the Dark Knight, but they decided to scrap it.
<v Speaker 2>They decided to take it away and make it a
<v Speaker 2>two note project. And if you listen to what James
<v Speaker 2>Newton Howard does and what Hans Zimmer does, you can
<v Speaker 2>tell that Hans Zimmer is really kind of the driving
<v Speaker 2>force behind most of the music in this movie. But
<v Speaker 2>they divided up work as you do, right, and so
<v Speaker 2>a couple of other ways that you can tell the
<v Speaker 2>difference on the way that they write. As you listen
<v Speaker 2>to the two different songs, Hans Zimmer said, Hey, I'll
<v Speaker 2>handle the Joker's music. Why don't you handle Harvey dent
<v Speaker 2>Slash Two Faces music? Right, Let's start with the Joker.
<v Speaker 2>His theme is the beginning theme, which is why so serious?
<v Speaker 3>Why so serious?
<v Speaker 2>So let's listen to that. This is the beginning of
<v Speaker 2>the movie, and you can hear that beginning sound where
<v Speaker 2>it's I mean, it reminds me of Pink Floyd and
<v Speaker 2>the Hey you kind of the worms in your brain.
<v Speaker 2>I think it's like a razor blade on some strings
<v Speaker 2>and a kind of rising. We talked about how Christopher
<v Speaker 2>Nolan likes to do that Shepherd tone where it just
<v Speaker 2>continues to rise and rise and build that tension, and
<v Speaker 2>that's what he's doing with this, and then there's the
<v Speaker 2>Joker has this definite Hans Zimmer style on all of
<v Speaker 2>his music, right, yeah, okay, So now, in.
<v Speaker 3>Fact, I think even Christopher Nolan said the theme, the
<v Speaker 3>one word theme for The Dark Knight Rises is escalation.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, so you can hear how James Howard Newton
<v Speaker 2>has a completely different style than Hans Zimmer has. James
<v Speaker 2>Howard Newton is more of that neoclassical stuff we loved
<v Speaker 2>from the eighties, like John Williams is, whereas Hans Zimmer
<v Speaker 2>definitely has his own style. He does that Austinato repeating
<v Speaker 2>phrase that just builds and builds, Whereas James Newton Howard's
<v Speaker 2>style is more pretty, more like we expect in a
<v Speaker 2>standard score from the twentieth century. Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's some of the best composers working in the
<v Speaker 3>business today.
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.
<v Speaker 3>All right, let's talk Batman eighty nine problems first.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Yeah, I've.
<v Speaker 3>Got a few that I want to discuss. I'm glad
<v Speaker 3>to get these off my chest. I've been dealing with
<v Speaker 3>these for thirty some odd years.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So I love Batman eighty nine. I don't want
<v Speaker 3>to get into my judgment just yet, but let's talk
<v Speaker 3>about these problems.
<v Speaker 2>Okay.
<v Speaker 3>So number one, Alfred betrays Bruce Wayne by letting his
<v Speaker 3>girlfriend in the batcave.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, his whole emotional struggle that we are
<v Speaker 2>hoping to have him solve is whether to tell her
<v Speaker 2>that he's Batman or not. And Alfred comes along and
<v Speaker 2>completely lets the air out of his tanks. I mean, what,
<v Speaker 2>what what?
<v Speaker 3>Alfred likes her more than Bruce does. Bruce is ready
<v Speaker 3>to just let her go and ghost her, but freaking
<v Speaker 3>Alfred lets her in. Okay, major problem with that problem. Okay,
<v Speaker 3>I have another problem. The scene where the joker attacks
<v Speaker 3>the mobster on the steps of the courthouse and he
<v Speaker 3>kills him with the quill the pen is truly mightier
<v Speaker 3>than the soul.
<v Speaker 2>Yes, the quill. Hey Vinnie, it's your uncle Bingo. Once again,
<v Speaker 2>Jack Nicholschusson can take an absolutely ridiculous line and make
<v Speaker 2>it awesome.
<v Speaker 3>His his makeup is weird, weird and yeah, crazy, that's
<v Speaker 3>slight problem.
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, but here's the thing.
<v Speaker 3>So Bruce Wayne is watching all these minds commit murder
<v Speaker 3>right on the steps to the courthouse. Right, Bruce Wayne
<v Speaker 3>gets shot in the shoulder. What he gets shot? He
<v Speaker 3>gets shot in that seat, Yes, he absolutely does. And
<v Speaker 3>in fact, you can see his jacket. There's like a
<v Speaker 3>bullet hole in the side of his arm.
<v Speaker 2>He's unfazed. Yes, he's unfazed. He's all from Beverly Hill's
<v Speaker 2>cor exactly, exactly. Okay, I'm good.
<v Speaker 3>Axel fully takes a thirty eight to the shoulder and
<v Speaker 3>it's like ouch, yeah, that's it. Bruce Wayne doesn't even
<v Speaker 3>give that like he he acts like he doesn't even
<v Speaker 3>feel it. And then later Alfred is going through his
<v Speaker 3>clothing and sticks his finger through the bullet hole in
<v Speaker 3>his coat and it's like interesting, weird, and that's it.
<v Speaker 3>Bruce Wayne is human being. Yeah, he's not a superhero.
<v Speaker 3>That's what makes Batman.
<v Speaker 2>So cool, right, that's weird. Okay, yeah, problem one, problem one,
<v Speaker 2>problem too.
<v Speaker 3>Problem to the problem that the Joker also imposes on
<v Speaker 3>Batman and also Gotham City is that he's released this
<v Speaker 3>chemical that causes people to die laughing and have these
<v Speaker 3>weird stretch he smiles on their faces.
<v Speaker 2>Whatever. Yeah, bat Man just shows.
<v Speaker 3>Up and like like literally two minutes later, he's like,
<v Speaker 3>here's the combination solved it.
<v Speaker 2>Like, like, I get he's a detective, but let's see
<v Speaker 2>a little let's show your work please. Okay, how did
<v Speaker 2>you solve this problem? I figured it out.
<v Speaker 3>It's detergent and dealerate.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, it's a combination of all these various things.
<v Speaker 2>And it only took me five minutes to figure out.
<v Speaker 2>I'm surprised that all of the scientists couldn't figure it
<v Speaker 2>out already.
<v Speaker 3>It figures it out like five It is ridiculous. Okay.
<v Speaker 2>It's like it is like Lex Luthor figuring out where
<v Speaker 2>the Kryptonite is in Superman, Like he pulls out it Encyclopedia.
<v Speaker 2>Here's a meteor, let's go get it.
<v Speaker 3>Problem three the bat Wing in Act three.
<v Speaker 2>I love the bat Wing.
<v Speaker 3>The bat Wing is awesome, and it does do that
<v Speaker 3>majestic thing up against the moon, which is super cool.
<v Speaker 2>I think the audience cheered when that happened. It's really cool.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but the bat Wing comes down and is going
<v Speaker 3>to take out the Joker.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, right, is gonna is gonna The sites are
<v Speaker 2>locked in, and if there's anything we learned from the
<v Speaker 2>movie Top Gun, it's when you've got a gridlock, that
<v Speaker 2>person is dead meat on the gridlock. I'll got a
<v Speaker 2>joke for you, ready, Yeah, Okay, Why couldn't Batman kill
<v Speaker 2>the Joker with the bat Wing? Why because he didn't
<v Speaker 2>use the force.
<v Speaker 3>He should have turned off his targeting computer.
<v Speaker 2>He should have.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, he had him in the sights and he fires
<v Speaker 3>missiles and machine guns.
<v Speaker 2>And Jack Joker just stands there facing him, balls out.
<v Speaker 2>I'm not scared, and he has no reason to be
<v Speaker 2>because he can't hit the broadside of a barn. Totally
<v Speaker 2>misses everything. And then Jack pulls out this ridiculous circus gun.
<v Speaker 2>I really expected it to shoot out the bang that
<v Speaker 2>comes a little bit later in the movie, but it's absurd.
<v Speaker 2>It's ten feet long, one shot and he takes down
<v Speaker 2>the Okay, wait, a minute.
<v Speaker 3>Now, is it more absurd that he took down the
<v Speaker 3>bat Wing with one shot or the fact that he
<v Speaker 3>can dance to Prince songs with a four foot gun
<v Speaker 3>in his pants.
<v Speaker 2>A gun in your pants?
<v Speaker 3>So one shot takes down the bat wing?
<v Speaker 2>Uh huh, come on, that's stupid.
<v Speaker 3>We saw the batmobile take multiple bullets and yeah, no
<v Speaker 3>problems at all, exactly. So then the bat wing crashes
<v Speaker 3>and crashes into the church, right, which is the biggest
<v Speaker 3>church I've ever seen in my life.
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, and so crashes into the church. And so
<v Speaker 2>what's the joker solution. Let's go to the top of
<v Speaker 2>the church, because why not? Because why what? What?
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's where the helicopter guys are, that's where the
<v Speaker 3>ninjas are hiding. That hasn't even He's got men at
<v Speaker 3>the top of the cathedral for some reason.
<v Speaker 2>And then Vicky Vale. Can we talk about Vicky Vale
<v Speaker 2>and what's going on here? Sure, sure, she is kidnapped,
<v Speaker 2>she is taken against her will, and yet some she
<v Speaker 2>is leading the way, unsurely leading the way. She's she's
<v Speaker 2>the one that's in front and looking behind in a
<v Speaker 2>what's going on manner, but still moving up the stairs
<v Speaker 2>to the top of the bell tower. Bruce Wayne Batman,
<v Speaker 2>who survives a gun shot without even being phased, is
<v Speaker 2>a stuporing, drunk mess. After the Batwing crash, he nudges
<v Speaker 2>a pew and they all come a tum tum, tumbling
<v Speaker 2>down like a bunch of dominoes. My kids are like,
<v Speaker 2>wait a minute, is this Batman? What's going on? What
<v Speaker 2>is he doing? It's ridiculous. Yeah, So he clues in
<v Speaker 2>the Joker that he has lived and that he is
<v Speaker 2>on his way up to catch him. So that the
<v Speaker 2>Joker can walk, He TALKI the Ninja and the gigantic
<v Speaker 2>bodyguard to do his fighting for him. That's right.
<v Speaker 3>So once they get to the top of the cathedral,
<v Speaker 3>Mickey Vail is going to Raggedy Ann dance with him
<v Speaker 3>for some unknown reason.
<v Speaker 2>It's limp noodle, what what's going on? It is just
<v Speaker 2>plain absurd.
<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, she does the exact same thing and
<v Speaker 3>Tom Petty's Mary Jay's last dance, right, So apparently Tom
<v Speaker 3>Petty liked it so and then the distraction tactics.
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, so she sees the she sees Batman, and
<v Speaker 2>she thinks, oh, okay, I know what to do at
<v Speaker 2>this point. I've been in this situation before.
<v Speaker 3>If there's one thing I know that men get distracted by,
<v Speaker 3>she's gonna she's gonna go say hi to mister little Jobs.
<v Speaker 2>No matter where they're actors or producers.
<v Speaker 3>And Jack Nicholson's face is priceless in that moment.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, surprise and pleasure.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I was expecting this at this moment, but I'm
<v Speaker 3>gonna go ahead and go with it. The helicopter guys
<v Speaker 3>can wait a few minutes.
<v Speaker 2>Excuse me, have you ever danced with the devil in
<v Speaker 2>the Pale moonlight? Okay? So yes, all of that. That
<v Speaker 2>whole Act three is a bit absurd, and we we
<v Speaker 2>still have the problem of Batman's killing people. He kills
<v Speaker 2>the ninja, he kills the big bodyguard, and he just
<v Speaker 2>flat out says to the joker, I'm gonna kill you.
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to kill you. Yeah, yeah, you idiot, you
<v Speaker 3>made me remember. Yeah, that seems cool.
<v Speaker 2>The writing is a bit forced, but again, nineteen eighty nine,
<v Speaker 2>I was all in. It's like jobs, you know, if
<v Speaker 2>you bought in for the first two acts. In Act three,
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter how ridiculous he gets. I'm all in.
<v Speaker 2>My kids weren't. My kids were a little wiser. They're
<v Speaker 2>twenty first century kids. You're like, I'm not buying this. Okay,
<v Speaker 2>what's going on here?
<v Speaker 3>Well, when he hits the pavement, he cracks the asphalt.
<v Speaker 3>That would not happen.
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk about I mean, number one batman kills him, right,
<v Speaker 2>I mean, no, he didn't shoot him in the head,
<v Speaker 2>but he's the one that shot the grappling hook around
<v Speaker 2>his ankle and then shot the other one around the
<v Speaker 2>gargoyle that apparently the super glue didn't take on and
<v Speaker 2>take the gargoyle immediately comes off. This thing that's so
<v Speaker 2>incredibly heavy just kind of easily pops off because it's
<v Speaker 2>hooked onto the joker's ankle, and then he shoots. That
<v Speaker 2>scene is a bit terrifying to see him shoot down.
<v Speaker 2>But then as he's down there and the laugh box
<v Speaker 2>is going off and all of the concrete is cracked,
<v Speaker 2>my ten year old daughter goes says to me, would
<v Speaker 2>he really have cracked the concrete like that? And I'm like, no,
<v Speaker 2>it would not. Well why do they do that? Well,
<v Speaker 2>because they probably would have had rather had cracked concrete
<v Speaker 2>than cracked joker. You would have been joker goo all
<v Speaker 2>over the street in reality. But this isn't reality, honey,
<v Speaker 2>this is This is a comic book movie. But it
<v Speaker 2>is an awesome comic book movie.
<v Speaker 3>All right, let's talk about the problems with the Dark Knight.
<v Speaker 2>What the problem? There are no problems with The Dark Knight.
<v Speaker 3>Hear me out on this. Okay, we already discussed. Both
<v Speaker 3>you and I agree that this is one of the
<v Speaker 3>best movies of the twenty first century.
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, one of the best movies of all time.
<v Speaker 3>And it may be a near perfect movie.
<v Speaker 2>It is h Yeah, it is entire I would put
<v Speaker 2>it in the top ten movies of all time.
<v Speaker 3>Honestly, I don't want to bag on this movie because
<v Speaker 3>I appreciate the character development. I appreciate going for story
<v Speaker 3>rather than selling toys. I don't want to take anything
<v Speaker 3>away from The Dark Knight. Yeah, there are a couple
<v Speaker 3>of problems. Okay, here's my biggest problem. Okay, Okay, when
<v Speaker 3>Harvey Dent gets his face melted off, Yeah, and he
<v Speaker 3>turns to talk to Gordon and Gordon sees the half
<v Speaker 3>of his face, Yep, that's cgi does not look good.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So we know that Christopher Nolan wanted to go
<v Speaker 2>reality reality as much as reality could bear a comic
<v Speaker 2>book movie. That's the way he wanted to go. And
<v Speaker 2>they had several masks. I mean, problem number one is
<v Speaker 2>with a burned face, the idea is you have to
<v Speaker 2>remove face, and that's real hard to do on a
<v Speaker 2>real human being. So they did masks to try to
<v Speaker 2>do it. You can't build up, but they tried to anyway,
<v Speaker 2>and they made them very realistic. And the problem was
<v Speaker 2>it was so realistic it took you out, like you
<v Speaker 2>were unsettled. I mean, it's like gory, nasty stuff, and
<v Speaker 2>so you were taking out. And so this is the
<v Speaker 2>one time that he was like, maybe we should make
<v Speaker 2>this less realistic so that people can still live through
<v Speaker 2>the movie.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I just didn't think. You know, throughout the entire movie,
<v Speaker 3>they do all these practical effects and everything looks fantastic,
<v Speaker 3>and then they have one shot it's like Princess Leah's
<v Speaker 3>face at the end of Rogue one. You're like, eh, yeah,
<v Speaker 3>that's not rh not quite there, all right. And my
<v Speaker 3>other problem I told you that I think that it
<v Speaker 3>would have been really cool if they'd figured it out
<v Speaker 3>a way for two face to arise at the end
<v Speaker 3>of that movie, rip his bandages off, and ah, I'm
<v Speaker 3>two Face and he's the bad guy for part three, right,
<v Speaker 3>and now it has screwed the whole plot of the
<v Speaker 3>movie up.
<v Speaker 2>And I get that.
<v Speaker 3>I just think that would have been a really cool moment,
<v Speaker 3>much like the end of Batman Begins, where we had
<v Speaker 3>that little teaser about the Joker.
<v Speaker 2>Sure, yeah, it could have been. It could have been
<v Speaker 2>a cool ending. And honestly, the first two acts in
<v Speaker 2>the length of the movie, it was strong enough to
<v Speaker 2>end it with him just being the Two Face. But
<v Speaker 2>like with the first movie, they didn't know whether there
<v Speaker 2>was going to be a second movie. Even with the
<v Speaker 2>third movie, they didn't know whether there was going to
<v Speaker 2>be a fourth movie. What they would do is try
<v Speaker 2>to write the movie as a standalone movie. And so
<v Speaker 2>if you limit yourself to, well, we can't go into
<v Speaker 2>two Face and what he does because we're saving that
<v Speaker 2>for the next movie, then you've unnecessarily limited yourself. And
<v Speaker 2>so that's why he's the driving force behind Act three.
<v Speaker 2>Which if there's a problem with the movie, it's that
<v Speaker 2>Act three doesn't finish as strong as Act one and
<v Speaker 2>two build it up to be. Yeah, that's that's the
<v Speaker 2>only but it's still a good I mean if you
<v Speaker 2>took if you took it as a standalone and didn't
<v Speaker 2>even include Act one and X two, it's great. I mean,
<v Speaker 2>the whole flipping of the coin and two face and
<v Speaker 2>the conversion of the White Knight into the Dark Knight,
<v Speaker 2>because that's really what the title is about. It's not
<v Speaker 2>just a reference to Batman. It's a reference to the
<v Speaker 2>takedown of the near perfect character of Harvey Dent. So
<v Speaker 2>that standing alone is great, but it's preceded by so
<v Speaker 2>much incredible Joker and Batman action that it's it's hard
<v Speaker 2>to live up.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it was. Okay, we've done with problems. Yeah, can't
<v Speaker 3>think of anything else. No, nothing other than the fact
<v Speaker 3>that the Joker in nineteen eighty nine had time to
<v Speaker 3>get all of his cars panted purple and get all
<v Speaker 3>the jackets, you know, with the Joker label on it
<v Speaker 3>and stuff like that.
<v Speaker 6>Right, Okay, guys, we're going to take a quick break
<v Speaker 6>and do our surely showcase. We have a special guest
<v Speaker 6>going to tell us their opinion on who the best
<v Speaker 6>Batman is.
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, this is our good friend, Tristan Martin. Tristan's been
<v Speaker 3>with us since day one. One of my best friends
<v Speaker 3>in the entire world, and somebody I can bounce ideas
<v Speaker 3>off of. We appreciate him. Here's what Tristan had to
<v Speaker 3>say about who the best Batman was.
<v Speaker 4>Hey, this is Shirley Fan Tristan Martin. I've been listening
<v Speaker 4>since day one and I've even re listened. Love what
<v Speaker 4>you guys do. And uh, Jason, you have asked me
<v Speaker 4>to talk about Batman. So in my first thirty minutes,
<v Speaker 4>I'll say just kidding now, I will try to limit
<v Speaker 4>it to my favorite Batman man, and I'm gonna skip
<v Speaker 4>Adam Wesk. I'm gonna skip George Clooney thought Affleck was okay.
<v Speaker 4>What's hard for me is saying who is number one.
<v Speaker 4>I would put Christian Bale at number three. I think
<v Speaker 4>he did a great job in those movies. And I
<v Speaker 4>would say that The Dark Knight is definitely my favorite
<v Speaker 4>Batman movie because it is the best Batman movie. It's hard,
<v Speaker 4>but Keaton is gonna be my second choice. That nostalgia
<v Speaker 4>factor is there. Also. I just think Keaton can really
<v Speaker 4>play anything. I mean, he's great as a villain, he's
<v Speaker 4>great as a good guy. Spider Man, Birdman, whatever it is,
<v Speaker 4>Keaton is awesome, And again, he was my Batman growing up.
<v Speaker 4>I did have the Batman command Sitter, I had the
<v Speaker 4>Michael Keaton toy, all of that stuff, and I still
<v Speaker 4>love Keaton. I loved the eighty nine Batman comic book
<v Speaker 4>series that they're they're putting out right now. But as
<v Speaker 4>far as the best Batman to me, the longest running
<v Speaker 4>quality performance, it's got to be Kevin Conroy. Kevin Conroy
<v Speaker 4>was the Batman the animated series star. His Bruce was great,
<v Speaker 4>and his Batman was great too. And the reason that
<v Speaker 4>I put him above Bail is because Bail added in
<v Speaker 4>and I don't know if this was Nolan's idea or
<v Speaker 4>what making Batman have the scary voice ar Batman Row,
<v Speaker 4>which I get because you want to distinguish Batman from
<v Speaker 4>Bruce Wayne. But I feel like like Kevin Conroy's Bruce
<v Speaker 4>Wayne and Batman were still a bit different, and Batman
<v Speaker 4>still seemed like a detective. He wasn't just a brawny
<v Speaker 4>guy almost like the crime fighting comes second to him
<v Speaker 4>figuring things out, and that's why he can play with
<v Speaker 4>the Riddler and all these other super intelligent people because
<v Speaker 4>he's a detective, and I feel like Kevin Conroy really
<v Speaker 4>filled that role. Well, I think I've gone over time,
<v Speaker 4>so I apologize. Guys. You do a great job. Love it,
<v Speaker 4>love Batman, so keep on keeping on.
<v Speaker 6>Okay, So that's a good one. Like we didn't approach
<v Speaker 6>the animated series, we didn't talk cartoons. There have obviously
<v Speaker 6>been a ton of actors who have contributed their voice
<v Speaker 6>to Batman. But that's I mean, valid conclusion.
<v Speaker 3>Valid conclusion, man, I mean Covin strong with the Kevin Conroy.
<v Speaker 6>That's really cool, and it is detective comics after all.
<v Speaker 6>Appreciate that the detective opinion.
<v Speaker 3>Tristan's a big comic book fan and so he knows
<v Speaker 3>these stories. Well, Tristan, thanks so much, buddy, appreciate you.
<v Speaker 3>He has been just a valuable person to bounce ideas
<v Speaker 3>off of and get feedback from. Tristan.
<v Speaker 6>Thanks buddy, Thanks Tristan.
<v Speaker 3>Okay, let's go to comparisons. Are we ready to dive in?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, let's go. Let's let's let's do judgment. You know
<v Speaker 2>what to change things up, Let's do judgment this time.
<v Speaker 2>Let's judge Batman to Batman, Joker to Joker. Uh, Batmobile
<v Speaker 2>to Batmobile. Let's let's do that, and then finish off
<v Speaker 2>with movie to movie.
<v Speaker 3>All right, let's do it. Okay, go batmobile to Batmobile
<v Speaker 3>nineteen eighty nine's top sliding off to the Tumblr?
<v Speaker 2>What do you think I on this particular scenario have
<v Speaker 2>to go with nostalgia. I can remember in the theater
<v Speaker 2>seeing the Batmobile come out in eighty nine, and you know,
<v Speaker 2>the only Batmobile experience I had that point was watching
<v Speaker 2>the old reruns of the Adam West stuff where they're
<v Speaker 2>in basically the nineteen sixties convertible car. And to see
<v Speaker 2>that thing, that big, long, glorious bat looking, bulletproof, amazing
<v Speaker 2>armed car come out, I was like, I want that.
<v Speaker 2>I want that car. Why don't they make cars like that?
<v Speaker 2>I think it was fantastic. The tumblr is cool, There's
<v Speaker 2>no question the tumblr is cool and more realistic. But
<v Speaker 2>for me, I got to say, Batmobile eighty nine, Okay,
<v Speaker 2>in this case, you're way off base because the tumbler
<v Speaker 2>is way cooler.
<v Speaker 3>You have the tires and the just the attack vehicle
<v Speaker 3>look of it. I also love the fact that the
<v Speaker 3>motorcycle can break out of the tumbler.
<v Speaker 2>It's so awesome.
<v Speaker 3>This case, I'm going all the way in Tumblr over
<v Speaker 3>the old one.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, And just to throw back to problem with the movie,
<v Speaker 2>the one problem I did have with The Dark Knight
<v Speaker 2>is the tumbler going from rooftop to rooftop when it
<v Speaker 2>hits the church. I'm like, no way that one sink
<v Speaker 2>into the bottom of the church like a stone. There's
<v Speaker 2>no way it's gonna hold up on those shingles. But anyway, yeah, okay,
<v Speaker 2>so you're picking Tumblr. I got Tumblr, all right. So
<v Speaker 2>Batman and Batman go Batman and Batman. Okay.
<v Speaker 3>Michael Keaton versus Christian Bale, Yeah, what do you call?
<v Speaker 3>It's Michael Keaton. Michael Keaton doesn't necessarily look the part,
<v Speaker 3>but he's got so much charisma. He's such a likable guy.
<v Speaker 3>As Batman, he can play the dark. He's just a
<v Speaker 3>lot more fun. I'm going Michael Keaton all the way again.
<v Speaker 2>I gotta go with you on this one. This is
<v Speaker 2>nostalgia again. It's I like in Superman, I picked Man
<v Speaker 2>of Steel over Superman one and two. Love them all,
<v Speaker 2>but Christopher Reeves is always going to be Superman to me,
<v Speaker 2>And in the same vein, Michael Keaton is always going
<v Speaker 2>to be Bruce Wayne. To me, Christian Bale looks more
<v Speaker 2>like a superhero. He's tall, he's fit, he's muscular, I mean,
<v Speaker 2>he's he a good jaw line. I mean, he's got
<v Speaker 2>it all. But nostalgia again wins out in this scenario.
<v Speaker 2>Michael Keaton gave us a portrayal that was memorable. He
<v Speaker 2>could go a little bit crazy and we could see it.
<v Speaker 2>Bruce Wayne was troubled and brooding and basically kind of
<v Speaker 2>the same as Batman. Whereas Christian Bale played the you
<v Speaker 2>know where, he was playing a part as Bruce Wayne.
<v Speaker 2>The real guy was Batman and the character the actor
<v Speaker 2>was Bruce Wayne with this playboy nonsense that he was doing.
<v Speaker 2>And as hard as that was to pull off in
<v Speaker 2>a believable way, can't leave Michael Keaton byd He's just
<v Speaker 2>too good.
<v Speaker 3>By the way, just a side note, the scene where
<v Speaker 3>Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson meet and there's another rooster
<v Speaker 3>in the henhouse at Biggi Vale's apartment and Michael Keaton
<v Speaker 3>slides in the little aluminum tray that's going to stop
<v Speaker 3>a low caliber joker gun.
<v Speaker 2>It's a good thing he didn't have the circus.
<v Speaker 3>Gup, think about Dumb and Dumber, where I'm like, what
<v Speaker 3>if he's shut you in the face?
<v Speaker 2>What if he shot me in there? Yeah, what if
<v Speaker 2>he shot me in the face. That's a risk we
<v Speaker 2>were willing to take it, all right, Joker to Joker
<v Speaker 2>d Europe. Okay, there is no question that Jack Nicholson's
<v Speaker 2>Joker was an icon is still an icon. It was
<v Speaker 2>the reason that nobody wanted to be the Joker when
<v Speaker 2>the Dark Knight was being cast. Every line that he
<v Speaker 2>says is memorable. Yes, Jack Nicholson in any movie that
<v Speaker 2>he's in is going to be Jack, but it's like
<v Speaker 2>he was Jack plus on all of these Joker lines.
<v Speaker 2>But when Heath Ledger takes on that challenge and reinvents
<v Speaker 2>the Joker and doesn't do anything like Jack Nicholson did,
<v Speaker 2>but gives us a guy who you're like, whoa, This
<v Speaker 2>guy has got a bag of cats in his head
<v Speaker 2>until three quarters into the movie, and then all of
<v Speaker 2>a sudden he almost makes sense. That takes some extreme
<v Speaker 2>skill and to do it in a character that's so memorable.
<v Speaker 2>I gotta go, Heath Ledger, God rest his soul, all right?
<v Speaker 3>I agree with you, Heath Ledger presents some real menace,
<v Speaker 3>particularly for me, in those videos of him with those
<v Speaker 3>victims that we actually talked about. He directed those scenes himself. Yeah,
<v Speaker 3>where he's gonna kill those people, the guy in the
<v Speaker 3>hockey pants, you know, and he has such a great
<v Speaker 3>presence and you believe that he wants the world to burn,
<v Speaker 3>and he's all in crazy but crazy like a fox,
<v Speaker 3>right m h. And then you've got Jack Nicholson, who
<v Speaker 3>may be his most iconic movie role ever and maybe
<v Speaker 3>the most iconic role of the eighties, where he's playing
<v Speaker 3>the Joker and he laughs at that crazy laugh throughout
<v Speaker 3>the entire movie, and it's so much fun. And every
<v Speaker 3>line is memorable, right, I mean, never rub another man's rubarb.
<v Speaker 2>Right, I could speel him out. He stole my balloons?
<v Speaker 2>What didn't somebody tell me he had one of those things?
<v Speaker 3>So this town needs Can someone tell me what kind
<v Speaker 3>of a world we live in?
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?
<v Speaker 3>So every line is memorable. Spike in the Football put
<v Speaker 3>me down. Jack Nicholson as the original iconic Joker.
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, all right, I understand. Okay, let's go movie
<v Speaker 2>to movie. Okay, let me go first. You know what
<v Speaker 2>my vote is on this you go ahead, all right.
<v Speaker 3>So in this case, I love Batman eighty nine. It
<v Speaker 3>hit me at the exact right moment. I talked a
<v Speaker 3>lot about how the summer of nineteen eighty nine is
<v Speaker 3>one of my favorite summers of all time. I was sixteen,
<v Speaker 3>I was going to see every movie in the theater.
<v Speaker 3>My friends and I saw this multiple times. I love
<v Speaker 3>Batman eighty nine. I love Michael Keaton. I've talked about
<v Speaker 3>how Jack Nicholson's Joker is more iconic to me. But
<v Speaker 3>Dark Knight is a way better movie.
<v Speaker 2>It's not even close.
<v Speaker 3>Batman is great for what it is, but The Dark
<v Speaker 3>Knight is far and away a better movie. Spike the football,
<v Speaker 3>what do you got?
<v Speaker 2>I don't need to go into a lot of detail either.
<v Speaker 2>There's no mystery. I haven't tried to fool you during
<v Speaker 2>this episode, these last three episodes at all. There's no
<v Speaker 2>question that The Dark Knight is a better film. Like,
<v Speaker 2>if I want to have fun and eat popcorn with
<v Speaker 2>my family, we're gonna put in Batman eighty nine and
<v Speaker 2>we're just gonna have a silly time. And that's great,
<v Speaker 2>and it's a great movie. It's exciting, it's fun. But
<v Speaker 2>Christopher Nolan took a comic book and made it a
<v Speaker 2>film by itself, even without the character history of eighty
<v Speaker 2>years of the Batman. If you just switched Batman out
<v Speaker 2>for some other made up new superhero and the Joker
<v Speaker 2>with some other made up psychopath, this still would be
<v Speaker 2>a fantastic film. And therefore it beats It beats Batman
<v Speaker 2>eighty nine a question about it.
<v Speaker 3>We love both of these, love them, but we're both
<v Speaker 3>all in on the dark knight.
<v Speaker 2>Yep. We want to hear from you, guys. Where are you?
<v Speaker 2>Where are we? What do you think? Weigh in?
<v Speaker 3>Hit us up on Facebook, hit us up on Twitter.
<v Speaker 2>What do you think? We've got a lot of top
<v Speaker 2>fans out there on Facebook who want they hear the episode.
<v Speaker 2>They're immediately telling us how we got it wrong. And
<v Speaker 2>we love it. That's why we love it. And if
<v Speaker 2>you've been with us thus far, get that follow button
<v Speaker 2>on your podcast app. Whatever it might be. Doesn't cost
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<v Speaker 2>our ratings, help us put towards the top where people
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<v Speaker 2>hitting that follow button so that we can talk to
<v Speaker 2>you again in a week and then next week after
<v Speaker 2>that and what do we got coming up? What's in store?
<v Speaker 3>We are celebrating The Godfather's fiftieth anniversary next week by
<v Speaker 3>matching it up with The Godfather Part two and Goodfellas.
<v Speaker 3>Godfather Part one has been described as one of the
<v Speaker 3>best movies ever made. Yes, Godfather Too has been described
<v Speaker 3>as maybe the best sequel ever made. Yes, and Goodfellas.
<v Speaker 2>Martin Scorsese's arguably his Godfather. That's gonna be a tough one.
<v Speaker 2>That is gonna be a tough one. But we might
<v Speaker 2>have a special sneak episode in between now and then,
<v Speaker 2>because hopefully things go according to plan, Jason and I
<v Speaker 2>will have caught the new movie The Batman, and we
<v Speaker 2>will be able to come back and tell you our
<v Speaker 2>thoughts on that. Join us back here next week.
<v Speaker 3>If you know a Batman fan, have them subscribe, have
<v Speaker 3>them listen rub our rhubarb for us on this deal.
<v Speaker 3>We'll see you next week for The Godfather