EXCLUSIVE: Blake Horstmann Interview, Part 2

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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, welcome back to Bachelor Happy Hour. I'm Alie and I'm here with Rachel's right. Hey. Hey, So we aired the first half of our interview with Blake and our last podcast, but it was there was so much to talk about we could not fit it into one podcast. Yeah, it was really a big one. It was really in depth, but we had more questions and we know you guys probably did too, so we really wanted to explore that. So we thank you so much for tuning in. But we have more today. We have our part two of our exclusive interview with Blake. Yeah, and I'm just so appreciative because Blake literally flew all the way to la from Denver just to talk, just to talk to us, nobody else. This is a completely exclusive interview. You're not going to hear from Blake on any other podcast, just right here on Bachelor Happy Hour. And I know Rachel, like we both know, especially from last week, like this is not easy for him. No, not at all. And to piggyback on that, Blake's not the only one who flew out here. I flew out here, yeah, just so we could all be here together. But I wanted Blake to be as comfortable as possible in talking to us, and I wanted him to see that we were here for him and that we were just trying to understand his side of the story. And so I'm happy to be here, truly excited to talk to him, and I know you are too, Ali. So right after this, we're going to have part two of our interview with Blake, So you guys don't go anywhere. I think where we want to start right now is with kalin And the reason being is that your description of your relationship with Kalen is drastically different than her description of your relationship. Why. I mean, I think and I kind of talked about this, and I think a lot of it has to do with some miscommunication, some real miscommunication, because I don't want to sit here and disregard her feelings, because like if she felt she was really really into me, but she just didn't communicate it, and you know, and I didn't communicate with her, like that's all obviously. Why maybe it seems like we had a different idea of what our relationship was, because that's clearly something we should have done better, because I had no idea. You know, she was saying things that I mean, I had no idea she felt the way she did because of the things she was saying. I'm gonna stop you right there, because she obviously didn't feel that strongly about you because she was trying to be the bachelorette. She was in conversations to be the bachelorette. So I know right now, Blake, you're a nice guy, and I can tell that just by sitting here with you. I mean, you know, this podcast is just starting, but we had the whole other one where we've talked to you for a while. Now, you gotta be a little pissed, right because she was trying to be the bachelorette, very openly to you about it. So you're thinking you're not into me. If you were really then into me, why would you be doing this? So what happened? I don't know. Honestly, I was angry, and there's still a little anger in me. I don't I don't try and hold on to anger because it's not good for anybody. But I was angry. Why all of a sudden, you know, she was saying one thing, and then all of a sudden, the second she got on camera, suddenly it was something else, And That's where my frustration kind of comes with that whole ordeal is you know, she was saying it's people say, you know, when a girl says she's okay, she's fine. I think Jordan said it on those that doesn't mean she's not. And I get that, but at the same time, like not only was I supposed to read her mind, but I was supposed to ignore what she was actually saying and then read her mind. You know, It's like I just wish we had communicated more and I'm not. You're right, like she wanted to be the bachelorette while we were talking and everything was fine leading right up to Paradise. Like if she was mad at me, like she had three months to do it, you know, she had three months to say something and she didn't. And so that's where my frustration really comes from. I guess. Yeah, when you when she confronted you on the beach, after she had gone around the beach, had talked about you and all of that stuff, and then she finally came and said something to you. You could see the shock on your face. Oh my gosh, you you're not an act blake, You're not, and the look on your face it was like you were floored, and we talked about it on our podcast. We talked about it right here on Bats Are Happy I and we talked about how, you know, you seem so shocked and things just didn't add up. And I remember I was even saying, from what she's saying to what she's doing, it just doesn't add up. And we were all confused, like how could they have such different versions of what happened from that conversation, and then the text messages came right. I mean, we have to talk about it because it was an issue, and I know you talked about it on the finale, and I'll be honest, watching the finale and having you watching you sit in the hot seat, it was tough. It was tough to watch, so I can only imagine how hard it was for you sitting there. And I know you've had to talk about this, which seems like over and over again, and I think, what I don't want to ask the same questions Chris Harrison asked, We don't want to go there. But one thing that was said from Kaylin and I've actually heard this too, is that you were talking or considering about releasing these text messages from the moment you saw that episode air, because it wasn't what you believe to be the truth, and you consulted with people, You talk to people, even even the people who were actually involved Kaitlin yourself, and Dean said you talked to him as well. So what made you ultimately say, you know what, against what everybody else is saying, Because it seemed like everybody told you no, you said, yes, I'm going to release them. Yeah, so I think Kaylyn used the word pre premeditated, So yeah, Kaylin, you know she's the word premeditated and premeditated. He was just a fancy way of saying. You know, I thought really hard about it, because I did. I it was such a hard decision for me that night when I released those text messages, I really was, I was breathing into a paperback, like it was incredibly difficult for me. And a decision like that, you do reach out for advice, and especially advice for people who have been in situations like men in batnation. And it was a lot of people they didn't even really say no, don't do it. They were like, if you do this, know what the consequences are. That kind of thing like that's and I did reach out, and some, you know, there were a few that were like you had, like the things she's saying, like you have to do it, Like I don't see any other choice. And so when people say, you know, why did you was premeditator or whatever? It was such a hard decision for me. I wanted to reach out, and I wanted to talk to other people, and I wanted to see if anybody else had any other ideas. I want to see if there was any other avenue I could take. And at the end of the day, as hard as it was, I felt like that was the only thing I could do to get truth, my truth out there. And because I didn't know a lot of things she was saying when I was down there. Had I know she was saying that I was Silencinger and all these things, I would have addressed it all on the beach with her. But I had no idea she was saying those things. And so when I watched it, I was shook. I was shocked. It was just I couldn't believe it. I just couldn't believe she was saying the things she was saying. You said in the reunion special, And I'm paraphrasing here, but something about if you hadn't released them, people wouldn't know the truth. Do you still feel that way? Um? I mean, it's so hard to say because I don't so kayl When we were at the reunion and Kaylin was like, you know, I've made some mistakes, that kind of thing, I don't. I don't know necessarily if she would have said those things had I not done what I did, I think she maybe would have stuck to her guns. And I think with having if I had just come to the reunion and been like I have evidence, like, I don't think that would have been that would have been an empty you know, I don't think that would have done anything. I really don't because I don't think anybody would have believed me. But you don't think it was wrong. So I listened up. Yes, releasing she was wrong, but two wrongs don't make it right. But she was wrong had I not done what I did. But just because somebody is wrong doesn't make doing something wrong right. What you're saying, yeah too, Yeah, I know what you're saying. But like you wouldn't have known that she did anything wrong unless I did what I did. Like two words would have made a right but she wouldn't have You would have known she didn't anything wrong. That's the kind of the point I'm making is if you're gonna say, Blake, you shouldn't have released those text messages or whatnot. You know, if people want to say and I knew I was gonna get hate and if you want to hate me, but then you also have to look at what the text message showed. And then you got to say, well, Kaylin, obviously you know did wrong. Yeah, I am not excusing Kaylin. I do like Kylin for different reason. I think Kaylyn is a girl who's learning about herself and continuing to learn about herself. And that's just a really nice way of saying she has some issues she needs to work out. Um let me say, let me say this though I I do, I do. I am sorry, like I am sorry that it ended like it all ended. It came to this, It came to like I am sorry when I released. One of the reasons I also released are sorry deleted the text messages was like I said, I was having a complete breakdown. I was breathing into a paper bag, and all of a sudden I took a step back and I was I get emotional. I was like, Klin is feeling this way right now probably and that killed me. And I was like, I was like, I can't believe I did what I'm feeling right now. I just did to somebody else and that hurt and that sucked. And so that's why I did suddenly take the text messages down. And I did have, you know, a moment to step back from everything be like, ah, what did I just do? I had. I did have that moment, and so that was hard and I am sorry that it hurt her the way it did. It is something that you know, I wish it didn't come to that. I really do. I wish it didn't come to that shit you're gonna make like, I mean, so god, this is ohoo, okay, before I get emotional, look at us two tours. It's just connecting on it. Okay. I'm trying to Virgo get I think, yeah, yes, you k okay, Virgo, we get along. Well. I'm very sensitive, so I think if people forget that, and sometimes I'm like, very harsh, but I think what hurt when I was watching you sit in that chair is listen, Ali and I agree on this. We don't agree with what you did, but it doesn't mean that I don't understand why you did it. Okay, there's a difference between that I understand why you felt backed in a corner and you did what you did what I have done it? Probably not, but I can understand why somebody would do that. The thing is, and this is a question that you posed to Ali, would Kaylin have admitted her mistakes? Would she have come forward and said, hey, I lied, apologize the same way that she did on the reunion. I had an emotional reaction. I overreacted and I'm sorry. I shouldn't have done that what she had done that? Probably not? And why do I say that? It's something that my dad always says, history has predictive value, And when you look at the history of Kaylin, sometimes stuff just adds up and you just kind of have to accept this is kind of who this person is. From the paget stuff to the comments that she was making on the bus, It's like people keep saying that things that contradict what Kaylin is saying. And how many times do you have to start hearing people say that you're lying before you acknowledge that this person really just has trouble telling the truth. It is what it is. And I know people came so hard on me when I was talking about Kaylin, and maybe I could have phrased things nicely. But it's not that I'm not supporting women, as people said, I'm just not going to support bad behavior, and I believe in holding people accountable for the things that they do. And what sucks for you, Blake, is when you release the text messages, and as you admitted you violated her privacy, it was a little bit of a step lower than what she did, and it gave her the scapegoat to hide behind her pretty face and her tears and hang her hat on what you did in releasing the text messages. But the truth is is that you know if you put if I put myself in your shoes, Alie, and you put yourself in Blake shoes, how would you feel if you knew the truth and somebody is out there lying not once, not twice, but multiple times to multiple people, and you know you have this truth. Millions of people yea, and millions right sorry on the beach multiple once it aired like you said, Ali, You're right, millions of people and you know your reputation is at stake, and the same way that she said on the reunion, she was emotional and so she had this huge reaction. You were emotional, Blake, and you had this huge, huge reaction. Again not saying it's right, but people have to understand where you're coming from. And speaking from personal experience, I've had people in this franchise lie on me outright, tell lies multiple people multiple times, and I have evidence that could like vindicate me, and I am labeled as a bitch while other people are labeled as an angel. And it takes it's hard to not want to say, actually, you guys, I'm not this way, this is actually what happened, and and then you have to backtrack and say, who am I trying to prove myself to? You know? Is it worth it to go there? And I think you know that at this point, like in hindsight, is it safe to say you probably would have done it a little bit differently? Yeah, yeah, no, it is, it is, And it was I don't want so this this is for a thing because you're saying like this emotion, like I had this emotional reaction, and I did, and I knew like I was going to get a lot of hate and maybe like I wish there was another way, Like I wish there would have been another way that I could have done it. And yeah, I mean, yeah, I think it was wrong. I definitely think it was wrong. But I don't know that I wouldn't have done it if I were in your shoes, And that's the truth. So that's the truth. So I do think it was wrong. But I think I'm human and I make mistakes and I do things that are wrong. Sometimes I can't imagine being in that moment, knowing what you were sitting on and just taking it like I I don't know. I just don't know if I would that. But this is the thing, when is sharing private conversations, private text messages okay? And what are they not okay? Because I was gonna put this out there. JPJ and Derek had a big thing on the season where supposedly Derek said that he slept with women that follow him on Instagram and JPJ just told everybody and called him out. That was a private conversation. Should JPJ now have brought up that conversation because Derek didn't want to have that conversation in the public. Do you see what I mean. So it's like but it's he said, she said, Blake showed that it's not he said, she said, this is what it is. Okay, well it's facts. This is what it is. So do we think it would have been better? I mean, I don't even know if it's worth it to go here, But like if you had just said what she said in the text messages rather than screenshotting them, I think if and we actually think we reset this. I don't remember if it actually aired on the podcast. Well we talked about this. I think that if you would have waited, maybe to the reunion and tried and kept giving her a chance to tell the truth, and then you said, Kaylin, you know I have these messages we about this. You know I have this. I'm gonna ask you again. I'm begging you. I've waited. It's been weeks and I've waited for you to speak your truth and you haven't yet. I think maybe you know. But again, that's that's how it could have been called Rachel, but next time called Rachel. But what I will say is when we asked the question, would Kaylin have said the truth? You know, would she have told told the truth to be honest. She had an opportunity because when that episode aired, she saw it. She knew it was going to happen right at that point. She could have gone to social media in some aspect, or maybe even have texted you, Blake and said, you know what I lied. I'm gonna say something on the reunion. You know what I wasn't truthful. I will address it in the reunion something I overreacted, the same apology that she gave you with the finale. At the reunion special, she could have said something along those lines. She didn't. She sat silent, and she hid behind what we saw on TV. She hid behind, for lack of better words, her lies. So again, I don't agree with what you did, but I understand the anger and the desperation that you felt in that moment, especially when you were the guy. And I really want you to speak to this because I don't think people get this. You were the guy from back of season. You really didn't develop any hate except for your dance Moths, which I was joy about. You really didn't get like people weren't critical of you. You didn't you hadn't experienced that yet, and you went from one extreme to the other and I'm sure that played into your mindset in how you also responded because you weren't prepared for it, you weren't used to it. So I want you to speak to that because I think that's the darker side of batter Nation that people don't really talk about. Yeah, I think I like the word you use it kind of like I did feel desperate, Like I did feel some desperation because I, yeah, coming off back of season, I didn't I didn't get a lot of hate. I didn't and so I didn't really know how to deal with that and for it to suddenly tsunami on me like that, and it was a lot for me. And you know, no matter what we put on social media, no matter what, you know, how we talked to people and we're saying we feel all right, we feel good, like it does just take a little bit to completely make us feel like we are we are worthless. And in that moment I felt so alone and so betrayed in a way too. I honestly, not not only Calm, but a lot of the people on that beach too, because a lot of them had acted one way to me. And then I when I saw it on the show, I saw that they were acting a different way on camera instead of to my face, and so that was really hard for me and feelings as alone as I did, I did feel a little bit desperate and being the guy who wasn't getting a lot of hate to suddenly everybody like everybody hating me, Like there at that point, there's no reason for anybody to be on my side, like none of my side was heard, Like there was no reason for anybody to even kind of give me a break. And I get it, you know, from what watching the show, I get why you wouldn't give me a break. And so the amount of negativity and the hate and that just all of that together, it can it can take and I'm not the first person. It can take people into a very dark place and a very place that I pray that nobody else, you know, really has to be in, because it can it can get really bad. Unfortunately, a lot of people on the show that get all the hate go to that place. I know Jed did. Okay, but we're not done talking to you yet, so don't go anywhere. We've got more coming up right after this. I have to ask show. So you spoke to her before releasing the text, messages be a text or phone what was it? So so actually Dean at first had started he texted me and was like, hey, I heard you might you know, release text messages something like, you know, think about that, like think about I wouldn't you know. That's the different level of whatever. I can't remember exactly what we said. That's a different level of stoop Like you said, it's kind of stooping. And then all of a sudden I got a call from Kayle maybe about a half hour before I was going to release them. She called me and she was like, you know, I kind of heard what she might do. She was like, so what was frustrating about me? But about that phone call was she didn't she still didn't really apologize and she didn't take ownership. It was a lot of the show edited me that kind of thing. It was a lot of that was a lot of blaming on the show. And she's like, let me go on an interview and just like blame the show. And I was like, I can't, like I can't trust you to do that. And if you think that the show is going to allow you to do that, you're wrong, you know. And that was basically how the conversation went and then when I finally did, I was like, can I'm release him? I texted her and that was not editing. I will just say that. I mean we heard the words come out of her mouth, and that's what I say. Yeah, I was like, you went around each person on the beach and blame the show and not take responsibility for my actions what history has predicted value. Sometimes you just have to accept who people are. I am sorry, I mean just time after time, incident after incident, it just really goes to show who somebody who their what their true character is. And I'm not saying people can't change. And I get that maybe age and and and and just getting caught up in this world can play into that. But I was just gonna say as much as like Caitlin, I want to say too, Yes, Kaylin's been through a lot, and like, as much as she is the play, I think you know, that environment and her wanting to maybe get everybody to like her kind of thing, and like, I think there's a lot of variables that played into some of the things that she said and why she said it. Like I don't think she's just like monster, Like I don't think God yeah, yes, and I want to get that across, like, I don't know, Yeah, none of us do, Like I don't think. I just think there was a lot that played into that, and maybe there was a little bit edding on some of it, but obviously, like the big accusation of me silencing her that wasn't edited. Clearly none of us thinks she's a monster. We talked about Dean. Like I said, I just think she desperately wants to be liked, Like she really has a hard time with people not liking her. So in this phone call that you had with her, she basically says, I'm gonna do this thing. You say, no, I can't trust you to do that. Did you ever say or I mean, obviously hindsight's twenty twenty like to think to say, get on Instagram story right now yourself and clear this up and I will question them. Yeah, honestly, I didn't think of saying that. You know, maybe I should have vested that, maybe I should have talked to her about that. But at the same time, I had somebody that, you know, the other day or when it was happening, was like, why don't you just tell her you have the text message and then be like, if you don't go on your stories, I'm going to release theasoning Like that kind of sounds like blackmail, Like you know, it's like it's like this weird gray line where it's like just the whole thing is it's really hard. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, it's like blackmail. And so it's like it was just such a hard situation, and I hope nobody else has and is in a situation like that where they have to decide to do what I did, because yeah, I think what was sad When I think of everything, it's like Ali just said, you know, Kaylin, we don't think that she's a bad person. I don't think that she's a monster, but Ali said, she just so desperately wants to be liked. And then when I look at you releasing the text messages, it was you so desperately wanted people not necessarily to like you. Yes, I think that that's a come denominator as well, But then you also just so desperately wanted to prove to people that you were telling the truth. And I think you have to sit there and ask yourself, who are you trying to prove this to? You know, the people who know, you know you, the people who are your inner circle and who matter matter. And the sad thing is is when you're in this world and you're you're on such a public platform, it's hard because you want people to know your truth and you want people to like you. But at the end of the day, and I think that this is the hard lesson that you have to learn, and I think like you really can be a champion and speak towards this is that you're not gonna You're not gonna make everybody happy. Like Kanye West said it in a song, It's like they'll hate you, they'll love you, and then they'll hate you again. And I think that the more you try to prove yourself to these people, you're always gonna fell because you're not gonna You're not gonna please everybody. I mean, look where you are right now, right kind of inn releasing the text messages. You were just trying, maybe so consciously, you were trying to please people, but you were also trying to speak your truth. And I think one thing in bastination is the more that you do that, you're going to get lost in this world. You just have to know who you are. Otherwise this world is going to eat you alive, spit you back out. Yeah, but in the same breath, like I've had a little bit of champagne. Guys, this is bachelor happy or so. I'm not gonna say this, right, but what you're the you know the legal terms, Rachel. What is it when like somebody publicly bashes you and then you can like sue them, right, slander slander? Like, I mean essentially that's what was going on. So I get like, it's one thing for like to have some haters, but you you said it, everybody was hating on you. So but one thing I really really really want to talk about, because one thing Calin's said at the reunion was that you chose to show very specific screenshots of the conversation that painted you in a certain light and her in a negative light. I don't even know if I want to ask this because is this just making you do more of what we said you shouldn't do? But what were you not showing? Like, what is she talking about? Was there another part of the conversation where she looked better? No? I mean so I think what she was referring to was back from in January through March. Oh, like your relationship. Yeah. Yeah, And I will be honest, like there were like I was like, you know, it'd be so fun to like double date with Colton Cassie, Like I was saying those things, like like I did like her, like I did. You know, there was a crush, definitely a crush there. But at no point was I like, oh, we're in a relationship, We're exclusive? You know it was it was always there was always that like okay, you might be Bapstorrett kind of thing. So I think that was more what she was referring to as far as like stagecoach night. You know that those text messages. No, well, I understand why you release those because that was the issue, right, Like what was the point of issue? Not though UNTI hire a few months, you're not denying that it was that night at issue and Kaylin said it was exclusive. Kaylin led us to believe Ali that it was an exclusive relationship. And this is what I think people need to understand is, you know, when Ali and I have both received negativity when we do this podcast, because what I think people forget is as podcasters, you're opinionated and it's not just about a recap. It's not just about saying what everyone wants to hear. It's about having an opinion, sticking to it, and analyzing a situation. And I think what people failt to realize is sometimes we know things that we don't necessarily can't tell all the information we know or the backstory. So if you're talking about a jet or I'm talking about a Kaylin, maybe we know something that you don't know. Maybe there's a little bit more to that backstory. And that's why we have certain opinions that we have when it comes to certain people. But I think that if I'm going to spend a positive light on this, right you know, we've talked about Stagecoach, which I don't go next year, like and not even because of the drama, just because it's like, I don't know if I could hear the word stagecoach again and get a bunch of pay you at this point, because you have given them so much advertisement advertisement for people who don't know, not even interested in country music, they're gonna want to go to stage Coach so they can see baterination so maybe they can hook up with people. I don't know. It sounds like it's a really great time people watching sounds fantastic. You need to go to Stage Coach and that The thing is is from all of this, you're clearly sorry for what you did. And even Kaylin apologized on the reunion she's sorry for what she did. So where do we go from this? And how do we grow for this? And I think that when Ali mentioned this on the podcast before, she was very concerned with you and your mental health and how you were doing and is he okay? Because watching the video of you, not just you releasing the text messages, but watching the video of you talking about it, you did not look like you were okay, and it was sad to watch. And I think something, you really have a platform to speak to the deeper issue with all of this, Like we can talk about the surface level Stagecoach hooking up with people, lies that were told, but what's the underlying issue and how the public reacts to certain situations and how it affects real people. Yeah, I mean so that Yeah, that night that I released everything and I've put that post up, it was obviously very rough and I decided I took you know, I took a decision. I made a decision to step away from social media for I mean, it's probably a month I stepped away from it, and in doing that, I knew that I mean, let's be honest, I probably lost maybe two hundred two hundred fifty thousand followers that I probably would have gained had I started been posting pictures the whole season. But I made it. I made a decision that I was going to step away because mentally, I don't think I could have handled um that Honestly, the hate that that probably would have been thrown at me, um and some of the dms that were were for I was for sure getting. And I think sometimes people forget that us on the show, like we're real humans. I think sometimes people watch a show think of us as characters and they ask for it. Yeah, yeah, and we still do. You know, and you you kind of heard me when I was on the show say something to the fact of this is this is real life. You know. It's like when there's all these amazing love stories and marriages and families that come out of it, that's all real. But then when people have their lives torn apart suddenly, like that's not you know, it's just a show, and that's not fake like that it's either all real or none of it is. And that's that's something that that I want to I hope the audience can kind of take from this is we are real people and that those dms and those comments they they they make a very big difference in our and a very big impact on our mental health and our and it's it's hard. And I'm not the only one. I've I've had since, you know, since the season's then going on. I've at other people reach out to me from the season and ask how I've dealt with some things because they've been getting hate and they ask how I deal with it, you know, And so I hope that I can be that person in the future that can kind of help people through some of this, because it's not easy. And no matter how perfect our pictures are on Instagram or how perfect you know, the stories are and all of that, like, there are people out there that are struggling and it just takes you know, we are human and it just takes a couple negative comments to get us back into that dark place that that we sometimes find ourselves in. Yeah, I like that you say that too, because I'm going to say this, but during our interview with Jed afterward, I sat down with him for a minute and he told me that he had gotten to such a dark place with all of the hate that he was getting, that he almost checked himself into the hospital. Like he was really fearful for himself. Yeah. Yeah, uh yeah. It's hard to talk about because it was really hard in my family too. And that night that I put the text messages out there and stuff, and I my mom was on the phone. I was telling her like, I need to go to a hospital. I can't breathe, something's wrong. And there has been a couple times a season where I've checked myself into just like a walk in so, you know, therapist, because it's it's it's it's hard sometimes to relate to when people ask how you're doing, people would be like, you know, I've made a mistake in my life. I talked about their mistake, and I'm like, well, well is that then broadcasted to a million people? You know, millions of people, And so sometimes it's really hard to relate to some people. And so that's why I did reach out to certain people in maturination. And that's why sometimes it's like, for some reason, there's this you know, stigma around therapy and things, especially for men. But like it makes such a difference in the world, and it's like something I'm going to now move forward with and like it's there should be a stigma around it. It It helps so much, it's incredible. Yeah, do you feel like you've learned who your friends are? Real friends? Because you can be friendly with people in this Bachelor Nation, But do you feel like you've learned who your real friends are? You know, through these dark times? Yeah, if there's one thing I can I mean, there's a few things I can take this, but one of the big things I can take away from this is I found out really fast who my real friends are. And sometimes Bachelor Nation, they'll they'll say things privately. I had a lot of people, especially people you know, even people sitting in that panel at the reunion, they reach out and they said, you know, I probably would have done kind of what you said, Like I probably would have done what you did. Like I've never been in that position, but man, I don't know what I would do. But then you know in public, they don't they aren't there for you, and they don't they don't support you, and real fast I found out who my real friends are. And I won't forget. Like you know, I know who now I'm putting my energy into. In the friendships I'm going to put my energy into because a lot of people not only in vaster Nation but in general, you know, I'm sure in real life too, Like if it doesn't I think self serving is the right word. If it doesn't help them in any way, you know, they often distance themselves, and I had a lot of friends distance themselves, but I also had a lot. Honestly, I'm closer than ever with And yeah, I won't forget that for sure. You know. I have this notorious quote in Basternation where I said these Bastlnation friendships are fickle and fleeting, and I wholeheartedly believe that to this day. I said that two years ago, and I think that that still stands true. And I think that it's through the dark times because not everybody is against you. And I think it's through the dark times that you find out who your real friends are, whether that be in Vaternation or just in the world in general, and those people really will go hard for you. And I will say that Ali and I are allies for Ali, ally are allies for you because as leads. Listen, We've never been a paradise and we always joke think God, we never there crazy, but we know what it's like to be, you know, like put on a pedestal and out there for public display, and we understand it. You know, we can agree to disagree, but it doesn't mean that we don't understand you. And we are here to support you in whatever it is that you need, because I think that sometimes it's popular to criticize you because that's the popular opinion, and so I just want you to know that you're not alone at all, and you do have allies on this show, and whatever we can do to be supportive of you, not ally of everybody. So that's why I'm plain, but whatever we can do to be supportive. I think that your message is powerful, and I think that a lot of times people don't talk about the negative side of this. Like you said, you can hide behind an Instagram picture in a story or a favorable article, and people don't realize the pressure that you have about being in the public eye. It is not all glitz and glad. It is dark some days, and it is lonely, and you really have a story, almost a testimony, but we're not in church to talk about this situation, and I think that you really should use your platform to do that because there aren't enough of us. And you said you've had people in fastrination come to you and say, you know, oh I understand, but then they don't really support you publicly or oh can you help me with this situation? How did you get through it? You really have a platform and you should use that. And honestly, it goes beyond vatternation just in general, just in general. Yeah, I'm there's one thing I can take from this. It's I've I've learned a lot regarding mental health and self help and all of that, and I do hope. I mean you're talking about Jed right, They're like, that's like hearing that side of things, like that's I know what he felt like, I knew what he felt in that moment, you know, And so yeah, I mean it's definitely something that I plan on hopefully helping people in the future. For sure. Absolutely. I think that what people don't understand is, you know, the hate that you've received and that other people may have received im fascination even you all and you talk about it just for talking for siding with Jed, you know, and it was the unpopular opinion side with Jed. I'm sorry, I thought, sorry, sorry, correct, Yes, for the same reason. I empathize with you right now, Yeah, you empathize, and then people just attack you in a certain way, and it's almost they forget that we're real people. And what I need people to understand is the attacks aren't. I don't like what you said, you know, and I'm going to give you a low rating on your podcast. I don't like what you said, Blake, and I'm going to unfollow you. The the way people talk to us, it is ripping our character apart. It is questioning who we are as people. It is death threats, it's you know, talking about our family at sometimes. My family got to get MS and my mom was like, how can you raise a son like that? Like it got and when your family comes, it's changes. It changed everything for me and I was just like, yeah, it's hard. Lots of death threats, lots of my mom. My grandma started MS at one point. I mean, Grandma's off limits for sure. It's Grandma's on Instagram. Good for grandma, Yes, yes, Grandma, I want to follow your grandma. But isn't that sad? It's people really forget we are real. It's we're real people. This is our real life and these are real stories. And you may not agree with every single thing that we do. But just because Ali you said it, Just because we've decided to put our lives for the public to see, and we've decided to be vulnerable and open, you know, maybe to create good TV, maybe had a chance at love. Whatever, it doesn't give you the excuse to then rip us apart. It doesn't give you the excuse to have a community online that has a whole identity to rip us apart and create hypotheticals and spoilers to talk about us. And I mean, it's just it just it blows my mind the time and effort people put on us, Bachelor Can tests and just people in the public life period to be mean, we didn't sign up for death threats. Yeah, and you know what, I know Grandma didn't, No way, Graham. But this is the thing, and this just applies to life in general, people like in place of life in general, because it's never okay to speak to somebody that way. It isn't like there's a there's a level of respect and grace. You have opinions, you can say your feelings and how you feel about things. But I think there's a level of respect for humanity, for human beings for who they are, whether it's in your life, whether it's people you're watching on TV in general, and people can hide behind computer screens these days. And you know, I just hope everybody listening to this right now, who's either driving in their car wherever you're listening to this, like goes out there and like says something nice to somebody because you never know how that's gonna just gonna say that. And as many bad dams as I got, like I got some incredible ones that I would screenshot and when I was low, i'd read them because there are good people out there, and they it's complete strangers who would reach out to me be like, I know you're a little place right now. I just want you to know, like it'll you know, it'll pass. You're gonna be okay. We're that kind of thing. Like those mean a lot too, you know, like as much as those native ones who are you down, those good ones can bring you up to so And I would encourage Bachelor Nation, not I'm not talking about the fans. I'm talking about the people who make this up, the contestants, the leads that are on this show. Stop doing things, you know, for likes and for clickbait and just for public perception. Because as I said, it's fickle and fleeting. In six months, there'll be a whole new batch of folks and you will be most likely forgotten of and what you did won't be remembered. It's like, just be decent. Don't tell lies on people. Just I just a lot of the times I just don't understand what people are doing and why they do it, in the motivation behind it. But just be you, be aware of who you are. Just be real. Don't try to be another lead, another cast member. Don't try to create get your own storyline because you think that that'll get you to paradise or that'll get you the next deal. It's all fleeting. Just be decent. You are those the people you're talking about. You once were, You got the hang ones before, try to remember that. I gotta ask Blake before you know we wrap things up. Is there anything you would change if you could go back. I mean maybe you'd say stage coach, I wouldn't have slept with one of ther but like not even that, I mean, like going into Paradise. Is there anything you would change? It's that's such a hard question because, like I said, I'm such a starng believer in everything happens for a reason, And like I said, like Tasia and JPJ, you know, Dylan and Hannah, and like Kaylin and Dean, like it's hard to say I would change something because the three girls who were in my in the drama, you know, they all left in relationships, and so it's really hard for me to say I would do something different because I think I think it worked out the way it was supposed to. As hard as it was for me and hard it was for everybody down there, I think it worked out the way it was supposed to. I'm really thankful for this podcast because I feel like, yes, we got those unanswered questions that we needed for you to. You know, guess you're in the hot seat and you had a good ten to fifteen minutes that everyone was able to see in the reunion special, But this gave you the opportunity to really expand on that, really be vulnerable and open and just have an honest conversation and I think at the same time, it allowed you to talk about something that people are really afraid to talk about the darker side of things and mental health. And I just want to say, like, for anyone else who is out there, Blake has been very open and honest about what it is that he's been going through. But we know he's not alone out there. So if it's you, if it's a friend, just someone you know out there that needs help, their resources out there for you, and we want to give you one of those resources. And if you'll just log on to suicide Prevention Lifeline dot org, they can help you out with whatever it is that you need. So you know that you're not alone out there, So make sure that if you're going through something you reach out to them. Well, thank you for being here. No, thank you guys for having me here. How do you feel? How do you feel if this is like therapy? Yeah, because no, it's good conversation. We've been talking for a long time. Notice, he's like, I got a flight to cat always give me. But no, do you how do you feel? I guess because right now this podcast is listens by hundreds of thousands of people listen to this podcast. Um Hey, hey, thanks for listening. Um, your message is going to get out there. Publications talk right about our podcast, US Weekly People magazine, They're going to write about this. Do you feel better? Do you feel like your message has gotten out there? And if not, is there anything else that you want to say? No, I do, I do. I do feel like There's a reason I was a little nervous. I'll be honest, I was a little nervous coming to that this podcast today because I didn't I was just in that hot seat on Reunion and I know how it felt, and I didn't. I wanted to be sure that I can I could talk more about the dark side of things, in the mental health of things, and that's what I kind of wanted the most to come out of this podcast the most. And so I think I did that, And hopefully that gets across, like you just said, that gets across on this podcast, and hopefully if it just stops one person fresenting that nasty DM to a contestant, And that's all I can ask everybody, go to Blake's Instagram and give them, as you know, give them a little like yeah, you know, well you're at it follow me and not right, No, and this is the thing, this is what we said even when Jed was on the podcast. Is that the great thing about this podcast, and really that's different from your conversation with Chris Harrison at the reunion, is you get a chance. This is a complicated situation. It is not something that you can explain in five minutes. Less than five minutes. You know. So I heard you. I can tell looking at Rachel she heard you. I hope everybody else heard you. Um, You're a good person who made a few mistakes. Your mistakes do not define you. Nope, shares to that. Shall we share that everybody? It's this happy hour? Shall we not wait their plaid? But we know what's up? Everybody raise raise your glass to being open, honest, having those tough, real hard conversations and just being kind to one another right here to that man, that was great. I mean, I just feel like it was for therapeutic for everybody. I'm so glad that Blake got to tell his side of the story. And we just really want to thank all of you for tuning into Bachelor Happy Hour, and of course thank you Blake for sitting down with us. Yeah, no, truly, Blake, thank you and thank you for sharing things that I'm sure are hard for him to talk about, especially knowing through what he went through mentally, and even that he said he's checked himself in to get help. And again, their resources out there for you if you need that as well. But in the meantime, we just thank you guys so much for listening. We hope that this podcast helped you and maybe you can forward it onto somebody else and it can help them because it's deeper than Bachel Nation. It's much more rich than that, and you can get all of the latest Batchel Nation news on bachelnation dot com. Right now, we want to hear from you, so tell us what you like which you don't like about the show. I have a feeling this is gonna be the one of the ones you like. But tell us what you want to hear more of. We'd be more than happy to do that. You can email us at happy hour at bachronation dot com, or you can visit us at batchronation dot com and click podcast