#185 - Kerri Edwards - Manager for Luke Bryan and Cole Swindell + How She Met Luke Bryan 15 Years Ago

00:00:00
Speaker 1: I almost thought we were going to do this next episode in two parts because it was it was so good. Um carry Edwards is her name. We're about to have her on. She's president of KP Entertainment, but she manages Luke Brian Cole Swindell and you're gonna hear her story and I'm just gonna leave it at that. But the good news is that the air conditioning works in this room. The bad news is my entire house is like a freaking sauna. The air went out. My air goes out about once every three or four months, and they come and they fix it and go we got fixed, and then it dies again and they're like, well, we can do the part and the part will cost you nine or we can put in a whole system that will cost you four thousand. I don't want a whole system, so I'll do the next part. But I've done it like five times for some reason, the thing keeps breaking. So thank goodness Um that this room stay cool, because I was really looking forward to the next next one. And I know Carry a bit now. And we get to know each other through first just her bringing Luke and Cold by the radio show, but then as even my career started to change and I started to have some bigger roles, and especially on American Idol, where we were together every week. So for me, it was exciting to have her in. And so that's coming up in just a second. Uh. I want to encourage you to check out, as I often say, some of our podcasts on the Nashville Podcast Network, including Caroline Hobbies podcast Get Real. We're speaking to Luke Briant. She does a fantastic podcast with Caroline Brian, Luke's wife. Scroll back and find that one. It was really the one that put me on a new Caroline. Um to put me on a Caroline's podcast, but that was the one where I was like, oh, she's really got some gold here with with her idea of this show. So check out Get Real with Caroline Hobby and you can see that podcast with Caroline Brian Luke's wife. Um, just because Luke's top of mind right now. But also there's one with Frankie Ballard's yeah, Christie Ballard, Yeah, his wife, and um, I think that's the new one that's up. Laney, who's Walker Hayes's wife, Jason al Dean's wife, Brittany. I think there's um, there's a lot of really great ones when they Get Real podcast Amy's show too. I don't want to go too long in this part because I think with carry On Myself we did over an hour some great Luke stories, and I under some the podcast. You pause and you know you may go eat or poop or whatever and come back to it. But if you do pose it for some reason you go to bed, you're gonna flight come back to it, because man, there's some there's some real gold in here with with a lot of the artist stories, um that she tells, and even you know she's from a small town of West Virginia, I'll let her tell you about that. Check out Get Real. Check out the Four Things podcast with Amy Brown, who yes, right, Amy has the last name, It's Brown and it's a lifestyle podcast for women but health, fitness faith. Um. It really is fantastic. The guys do a sports podcast called The Sore Losers, UM, and I think they do that like four days a week or so. UM. Just I would say check it out. And then, like I said every time Michael, we signed our next show yet not yet, not yet all right? That we went from yes we think to not yet we're working on with another show. UM, maybe we get it, maybe we don't. Check out The Raging Idiots will be on tour. It's Eddie and myself. We have a musical and comedy show. It is unlike any Raging Idiots show we've done before. We are finally achieving my dream of doing a comedy music show instead of just the band. It's Eddie and I and I do some stand up, but we do like a musical at one part, like a Broadway musical. We do get our guitars out and play some of our songs from our record live in Boston that you can check out and stream online. But check out the new Raging Idiot Show as it is morphed into something I'm I'm slowly getting pretty proud of I. I really like where it's going. It's gonna be fun. So Raging Idiots dot com. A lot of the shows have sold out, but there are still some tickets for places like Chicago, Denver, Amarillo, Louisville, Vegas, San Antonio. Come see us. It will be a fantastic time. Um might do anything else I want to mention before we get going with the show. Here. Also check out Velvet Edge with Kelly Anderson. Absolutely great call forgot about that and I usually lead with her. Um, and I'll say, it's Mikey's birthday today and here he is on his birthday. It's a work day on his birthday. Have to give it your gift, it's downstairs. Um. We did win last year on my birthday to Brett Eldridge. That was that was That was a year ago. But what a fantastic episode that But we're nailing him one birthday. Yeah, we're getting some great ones on Mikedy's birthday. Happy birthday to you. That was a go back and find the Brett Eldridge. That Brett Eldridge one actually is what started bretton eye kind of friendship other than just seeing him in the studio like Brett and I are. I wouldn't say like super friend, but we text and try to hang out now, you know. And that started with that podcast because we really hit it off on that podcast. Um, yeah, I have birthday to you. I guess you did most of your birthday celebrating last weekend. Over the weekend and how'd that go? It was good to hang out with my family and my girlfriend. You look great? Um yeah, happy birthday to you. So wait, wait, what's anything going on tonight? Are you just gonna chilling go to bed, chilling, go to bed? And are you sad about that? No? I think I got everything over the weekends. I'm good. Well, I have your gift downstairs and you will like it, all right. And I had something else in mind, and I was like, you know what, that's not the thing. I saw something when I was out with Bear Girls and because I just I just returned from that show last night. Actually, um, you could be watching for that in the in the winter. I do running while with Better Girls and Bear Girls had something and I was like, oh, Mike, you needs this. Okay it's yeah, yeah, it's a buzuka, but it's a literal bazuka. But I saw it and thought about you, and I was like, all right, soon as I get back, Um, it's a birthday, and yeah, I have further to you. Man, you did a great job on this podcast, and um, I mean we started this freaking thing together. Look at us and now in a in a spare bedroom and now millions and millions and millions downloads later and streams later. There we are. We got our equipment upgraded We even had a little just thing from our last episode and so, um, yeah, happy birthday to you man. That's that's that's cool. Okay, yeah, like a little I'm watching watching a little little caterpillar turned into a little butterfly. I put the show to a post on Instagram. It was like half birthday in my d and I put a goat in the Mexican flag underneath it. And then I just forgot and I came and started doing this show. And I wonder if anyone because you never know if you don't like watch what people you never know? What do they other comments like hey Bobby, don't be a dude, Like no comment? Oh good, Well there you have it. Um, okay, away we go. This is episode one and it's a good one and I hope you like it. And let me say this, if you do like it, please share with your friends on your answer stories. Share with your friends, tell them. That's how we continue to grow. That's how can we get the cool guests. Because this thing keeps growing. And it started, we'd get like five people listening. Literally, we have millions of people to listen to this thing. Now we can't believe it either. So um, we're really proud of it. I think it's the second most listened to show after our show, our radio show. It's the radio show and then this and then like other radio shows and other shows. So I mean, we were so proud of it, and um, if you don't mind sharing that when we get to do stuff like talk to managers for an hour about their artists. So we're very proud of it. And now here you go with the next episode of the Bobby Cast. Here you alright, episode of the Bobby Cast, which I have to say, carry that two things. I was really looking forward to this one because it's rare that you actually get that. I get to bring someone that I really do know, and too, I get to wear shorts because people I don't know, I have to like dress up a little bit. It has to be professional casual around here. I'm in slippers and shorts and like a sweatshirt because I think we should talk about the slippers though, but no, no, these are when I won Dancing with the Stars. Good Morning America made these for me and gave up to well they should. They're amazing. I wish everyone could see them right now. I thought you were making fun of them, not at all I said, they're amazing. I'm so used to getting made fun of that, that's automatically my mind goes. So here's the roadmap of what we're gonna do. Have you ever done a long form interview before? Like? No, not really, like, because it's gonna be like an hour. Have you ever done anything like an hour long interview about you? Probably not. I've done speaking engagements um that we're based on kind of the story or different platforms in the industry, but probably not an hour long. So here's the roadmap, and we may not do an hour, we may do over it just depends. We're gonna talk about um Luke and how that started and where it is now, we're talking about Cole, We're gonna talk about a bit about John and any of the other John Lenkson sorry, any other projects you have going. And then I want to talk about what a manager is because when I mentioned because on this podcast I really get in the weeds, it didn't even talk about my management and what happens. So I do want to talk about what a manager does, and then almost show personalantic dotes so we have about each other. And then when you just wrap it up and if that takes twenty minutes or two hours. That's gonna be what we're gonna do. So we're not gonna go anywhere super crazy, although I will say that when it comes to Nashville or just the entertainment business period. And you're not gonna want to say much about this because it's kind of me talking about how good you are. Is that you're one of the most powerful people in country music. And I hope this is an offensive but nobody really knows you are. Is that fair? That's fair, and that's okay, okay, but you are, like you do make a lot of things happen from way behind the scenes. Was that always a plan for you? Is that what you wanted to do? No, I actually came into this to do A and R to find the native side of it. Yes, So where'd you go to school? Lipscomb Universes. So here, So you go to Lipscomb and you think, all right, you like I assume you like music. That's what I did. Like music. I will confess though, I went to Lipscomb and did not really plan on going into music. But I actually thought I was going into TV, like to do what a reporter to be. Katie Kurry. That's so that was a dream. Like where'd you go up West Virginia? Okay, so the teeny tiny town outside of Charleston of how many people? M M. There was not even a stop sign stoplight? Sorry, stop Like I didn't have a stoplight in my town. Had seven people was my town, And so you can maybe a little more than that, but not a lot more. Were you good in school? Yeah? But were you super good in school? I mean I was in the top five of my class of how many kids? That's awesome. I was not in the top five in my class. We had forty forty kids. Yeah, I mean I was. I don't know. I would say I was always tell my kids that I'm street smart, not book smart. Why Nashville Nashville? Honestly, I came to Nashville. Honestly, my parents kind of pushed me to come. They didn't push me to come to Nashville. They pushed me to go out of state. I mean, I was going to be like every other person that I knew and grew up around and go somewhere. Probably I wanted to go to Marshall, which was about an hour from where I lived, and they said that's fine, but if you want us to help you pay for it and help you along the way, you have to go out to state. And you chose Nashville. Chose Nashville, and I knew no one. I'll tell me my sister lived here, but I didn't know anyone at the school. She wasn't She was older than me, and she and my brother lived in Tennessee, but they weren't near me at the moment. So you go to lipscum thinking you're gonna be a TV reporter. When did that switch over and you decide you want to get into music. I met a girl in Charleston, West Virginia at a festival, and Um, I had gone back home for the weekend. A friend of mine ran this very large festival for our town in Charleston, and I had just gone back as a fan and was watching the show. And I was backstage with him and al he walked up and to introduce herself to him and this radio guy, and he got pulled away. I'm gonna I think I remember who was on this festival. It was Pam till Us, Steve Warner, le Roy Parnell, and Billy Ray sours and Billy Ray needed my friend to do something, and so he got pulled away. So I'm standing there with the stranger. I'm probably nineteen twenty years old, and I go, so, I love a Nashville. I didn't know what else to talk to her about, and she was very nice and friendly and was like, oh, that's great, you know, give me your story, and you know, we just start talking and before the end, I mean probably thirty minutes later, we're still talking and we end up having a mutual friend, a person that I had gone to college with that I knew he did music. I knew nothing else about what he did, that he had kind of left school to go chase his music dream, and I meant. She goes, well, what's his name? And I said his name and she just stopped in her tracks and she goes, he works with me at Arista Records. And I'm like, really, like, I really had no idea what he did, and so that made her drawn to keep talking to me, and she's like, if you ever want to do an internship, call me. I didn't really know what that meant. I was like okay, And I get back to Nashville and I call her and I don't hear a word from her. Probably her name is Denise Nichols. She's still in the business. She ended up going and getting her She's a lawyer, entertainment lawyer now. But at the time she worked at Arista Records in radio promotion and the mutual friend Um also worked in radio promotions at the time. And two weeks go by and I'll walk in my apartment one day from classes and the phone drinking because you know, we didn't really all have cell phones then, so the phone drinking and it's her and she's like, I'm sorry, I've been traveling, you know, if you still want to do this, come down here and meet with us. And when I did that, Arista was pretty new and it was a stay and alone entity. It wasn't merged right now it's in with our ci A Sony the whole, there's a very large corporation. At the time, it was stand alone. I mean, I want to say they had like twelve employees at the time. And so I in turned there and I didn't even really know what I was getting into. But the minute I stepped in there and they started giving me jobs. I mean, if I'm talking like I did Millers and every song had A had a gadget that with it at that time, and if you were putting out a new song, you mailed something to radio that fit the song. I mean I would do things like that. But I was so obsessed with it that if I was not in class, I was driving down there, like beyond the hours I was supposed to do it. I mean, I loved it. We found your passionate. You felt like it was explain what a and R is. A R is artists in repertoire when they are responsible for signing talent to the record. Would you go out and find our acts? Not then? I mean I was too young and green. I mean I would go and watch and listen with the rest of our staff. Then we were all pretty tight because it was small, so they you know, they let me have an opinion. But I wasn't really like I was in assistant. I mean at that point I was still an intern. I mean I think they hired me. I kept asking to intern. I've probably interned a year and a half. I kept resigning up until my Yeah, he was like, man, why don't you just let me pay you? Finally, Yeah, sometimes you just gotta do all right. Yeah. Um, so I did that, and they end up offering me a job in A and R. My internship was in radio promo, so I started in that and then shifted into A and R. That was the only position that was open, so I took it. Didn't really know what I was about to get into, and then I was just hooked. I mean just all about songwriters and publishing, and I mean I would literally stay at the office still ten o'clock at night doing what the at working new and A R, like what what do you do? I would organize all the stuff that the other two guys that worked with me did their appointments there song but they but I also that I eventually made it to her. I earned my way to start taking my own meetings and trying to find songs for our artists to cut. You have to think back, just one, give me one. You have all the time in the world, think there was um we have. I mean I have some funds. I mean the ones that are coming to mind are songs that we found and then they would get stolen away, like like one of one artist will put him a hold, but somebody else would take it, like Tom marches On was one. So who did you do you remember who you held it for before Tracy Lawrence took it. Um Well, a guy named Steve Williams worked with me at Arista and um he like he officially put it on hold for Brooks and Done. Is that right? Yeah? And then was so was Brooks and Done so new that Tracy Lawrence was such a bigger act that that he got to go ahead rather have that song. No, I honestly think it was um an internal sa peru, but they had the same producer, and I think it kind of got shifted like a baseball trade, like I'll trade you one time marches on for for on. It was like a big story back then because I mean we were we were very passionate about the song. And I'm not sure at the time if Brooks and Dunne had heard it when Tracy heard it first. Um So there was a big tim dabah. He ran Arista Records at the time. You know he was He is a very even killed, gentle soul, but if you mess with a song, he will get fired up. So there was a bit of controversy Ville because Brooks and Dunne had time marches on hold and now the producer ended up doing the right thing, and he let them have a shot on it, and they end up letting Tracy have it. So I think in the end it all end up being fair. It just was it started off not being fair, So what a good story? No idea? So you do A and R for a bit, and when do you used to go? I think I may want to manage an artist though, because that's a whole difference even though it's the same umbrella, it's like a whole different part of the world of music. I really never said that to myself. I didn't I from A and R. I went into publishing and did that, which is like song write the songwriters and how the songwriters get paid. Correct. Yes, And when you're in publishing, your job is you're usually called a creative director and your job is too book co writes. So you're trying to match people that you think will go well together with either lyrics or melodies or whatever um on that front. And then then once the songs get turned in, it's your job to go out to then the A and R people, which is where I used to you know, be employed on that side of things, and try to get the artists to cut the song. So I was doing that um after A and R side, always been on the song side of things. But that's a second publishing job. Is where um um met Luke Bran And so how do you meet Luke? He had just got this company hired me to work for them, and he had just been signed as a writer maybe the month before that, so he was brand new to town. He came to town, he got super lucky, and he got a writing deal like within a month of moving to town, which doesn't happen that often. So he was on a publishing deal, correct, And that's how he was paying the bills. And I got hired to help him do his catalog and co writes and pitch his songs. And I knew he did like an artist thing in Georgia, but I truthfully didn't really ask a lot of questions about it. Then it was me. I was focusing on his writing and getting you know, trying to get him a song cut. Did you think he was that good like when you first saw him, like like next level good writer or artist, just the it of it. Did you catch the immediately? Yeah, Luke's always had the it, you know he has. I mean I didn't know the extent of him wanting to do the artist thing. Um, so it was probably a year more into you know, working his songs as a songwriter side of things that I just honestly took a couple of people the most. It was a random group, a couple of songwriters and another publisher. Hey don't want to drive with drive with me to South Georgia. They're like okay. And I went to watch his show in this tiny little college bar and literally stood there going, I really do remember the thoughts I had. I went there just to support him and just to see what he was about. And I remember standing there almost like, you know, mouth open moment, going, this guy, like every guy in here and every girl in here is singing the songs. It wasn't swayed when I mean they knew song. He did a lot of covers, of course, but even when he was with the songs that he had written, they knew him like all of them. And I felt like it was a Kinney Chesney moment, Like how I felt when I stood in a crowd watching Kinney do a show. That's what I felt when I saw him perform. Was it weird that you'd worked with him as a writer, and you didn't see that until you actually went and saw that, where it's like, oh my god, this guy that I know has got a whole different type of persona. Was it that kind of maybe na persona, but as a performer he was like a different, different kind of person or just the elevated version of himself. I think it was just elevating. He is a big personality, and he walks in the room and you know, he's in the room and in a good way, you know, in a good way. But when you saw it, when I saw him up there doing his element and what he did, it just kind of almost put it in a different perspective for me. And I didn't really know what I wanted to do or what I thought I should do, but I couldn't stop thinking about it. You know, we did the show that night and you know, hung out, drove back like eight hours the next day, and I couldn't stop thinking about I'm like, this guy really deserves like a shot, you know, how do I help him do this? And he he was The company isn't around anymore of it was Calmer Room Music. It was a smaller independ the publishing company that he that I worked for and he was writing for. And I went to the guy who owned it, Roger Moore, and just said, you know, can I have your blessing to figure out what to do with him? And he was did he want to work with you in that way? What did you and Luke talk? No? Not, I mean no, because I think I was just more like I want to I think he needed he was still green, but you still saw the potential. So I'm like, what can I do to help figure this out and help him with a path And and I just kind of started with his co writes and me, I just started calling people that I knew from Air Stay in our days and had become good friends with through all our experiences there. And you know, I did the old hey, will you do me a favor call? And you know some did, some didn't, and just really worked on growing like his level of people he was co writing with. And you know, he still had a great batch of people he was you know that he had already developed himself and had you know, great songs. But I just thought he needed to raise the bar on that side of things. And that's kind of how I started it in my mind, like going down how to how to help him grow. And then in the meantime, you know, he was still playing. He always kind of played a lot of club shows then in Nashville or was he just playing the Southeast Southeast? And you know, so he and Michael Carter, who's still in his band and his you know, guitar player, band leader guy. I saw him at the airport the other day. Yeah, we talked. So he's still with Luke. But they were in a band then, and you know, since college, and they would go go do that every weekend. You know, they could load up whatever vehicle they were driving at the time. I remember, you know, a small Twitter truck, remember a tod just you know, packing it in and they went after it every weekend, and and we just kept working on it that way. In the meantime, I would when I was pitching songs to my and our friends at all the different labels, we I would try to make a point like if I was playing his song, to talk about him for a minute, you know, it wasn't time to pitch him as an artist, but like I was trying to get them familiar with his name, and you know that he was trying to do that and the style of songs that he wrote. That's that was kind of my game plan. I guess if I'm thinking back through on every two seconds there's a victim of identity theft, which you mean that criminal could be spending your money, applying for loans in your name, and even damaging your credit, the good credit you've worked so hard to build. Unfortunately, you can miss certain threats to your identity by just checking bank statements and monitoring credit cards. The good thing is there's new LifeLock identity theft protection. LifeLock uses proprietary technology to detect and alert you to a wide range of identity threats, like your social security number for sale in the dark web, and if you have an issue involving identity theft, one of Lifelock's identity restor ration specialists will work to fix it. Of course, no one can prevent all identity theft to monitor all transactions at all businesses, but with LifeLock you get identity that protection and additional features. They'll protect your devices against cyber threats. Starting at the already discount of price of month plus an extra ten percent off your first year LifeLock, dot com orlock enter the code bones that's the promo code bones for ten percent off. To get a job, you need a call back, a chance to interview and share why you are right for the position. Express Employment professionals can help each week. Express has thousands of open positions. With Express, you don't have to go it alone in your job search. Express connects job secrets to the right company, Their committed to your success, and never charge a fee to find you a job. Express nose jobs gets no Express. Find your local Express office at Express pros dot com or on the Express Jobs app. I wonder just from your birth side, because there's a point where you have to go all right, yeah, I'm gonna consist a paycheck doing publishing, where you're going to go to a lesser consistent paycheck managing an artist, because it's a risk because you're only getting I mean I talked about mine. They get everything I get. That being said, I gotta get it like I gotta be able to make the money because if I don't make money here, no one wants to hire me. They don't get paid. So there's a real there's a risk to you go on, here's my paycheck or I'm my I'm a water bill covered too. I'm gonna go and and put my faith in this artist. Like what point did you go? All right, I'm in, let's go. He I mean, he had brought it up a couple of times like well, fast forward. We you know he was writing songs, writing better songs. Um. He he had written with a guy named Jeff Stevens, who's a songwriter here in Nashville. He's had tons of hits that I mean, George Strait, Caring Your Love with Me, Carried Away, Alabama Cut has just been you know, a successful writer here in town. I had asked Jeff to write with him, and it took a minute to set it up, if I remember right, because I feel like Jeff was between publishing deals or something. So it took a minute and they finally end up writing and they just hit it off and they I think maybe after like the third song they wrote. Larry, a guy named Larry Willoughby who was head of A and R at Capitol Records. I heard a couple of the demos and just really loved, you know, kind of the sound, and he was like, you know, he called and he's like, I really like these and I like what Luke's doing, right, now you know who's he doing? Is this Jeff? And so he asked Jeff to kind of keep writing with them and see what they could come up with kind of thing. And so that had happened. Um, Jeff ended up being his producer and is still his producer. Has produced every record you know today so far. So that's a fun story, you know. Now I'm looking back on that um. But he had asked Jeff to be a part of that um. But you like, so yes, so going that so all these steps that happened. He got a record deal with Capitol Records. Are you as manager at this point? No, I'm still publishing. How does he not have a manager if he's got a deal? I was just pitching him, I was too in the meeting, But he has another manager? How does that? Like? My mind right now is going he's got a deal. But no, I know so many people that don't have deals that have like nineteen managers always say that we were both just Naiven green enough to just to keep trying. I don't know, he gets a deal. And you guys have been working so close together, there's obviously that trust. And so what's the conversation light between you two He had brought it up a few times, but I was asked, no, you know, that's not my deal. I don't know how that whole side of the world works, that just of it. But I've never put a tour together. I've never like had to book shows and you know, the whole, that whole side of things. I've worked at a label, so I kind of knew the big picture, but I was still I was on the song side of it. I had never been in that trenches of that um, so I would just, you know, kind of brush it off. And I had literally I'd set up meetings with either three or four other managers in town and took him to the meetings. Wow. And and when you did that, were you literally hoping one of the managers and Luke hit it off and he would have to have a manager you wouldn't like take him to the worst ones like that only had done punk rock and be like, well, versure, this ain't gonna work. Look at that. So you're rooting for Luke. You're like, all right, buddy, we're gonna get you a good manager. That was never worked. I mean there were I mean, he could have picked someone, for sure, But then the more he but he didn't talk about it. I think I woke up one day and was like, oh my gosh, it hit me and I said, I'm either going to have to walk away from this. And at that point it was probably for four years of like really putting a lot into what he was trying to do. I have to walk away or have to figure it out. It's like every girl I ever dated, they got like Bobby, get off the pot, and usually I get off the pot and I run away. So yeah, you have that decision and you decide. I mean I was terrified. I had like two friends in town that I really confided in and was just like, what do you think? And to that I was probably driving crazy about it, and um, and then UM. I called Mike Duncan, who was the president of Capitol Records, and I had known him a long time. He was the number two person at Arista, where I had worked previously, so we had a great relationship and a long term relationship. And that I I was so kind of scared of doing something I didn't know. And more than that, I didn't want Luke to not be taken seriously, like it's a brand new artist with a manager that no one has ever heard of. That's not a great formula, you know, And I knew that, so I just had to get his blessing. I had to or his opinion, like you know, I called him and I said, Luke's brought this up a couple of times and now I feel like I can't walk away. But I will only do this if you are behind it, because I don't want you not taking him seriously. And you know, the the interesting thing will be to go back and now ask Dungan what he was really thinking in that moment, you know, when I put him on the spot like that, but he sat there a minute and he he just goes KP, I think you should do it. And I mean honestly, that took a lot of weight off, and I mean I was still scared, but um just getting him to sign off and feeling like he supported the decision like made me didn't feel like I can move forward with it. But it was still a risk, like I have no like there's there's you know how it works. I mean I know not everyone out there does. But unless coming in, Unless of money's coming in and ain't you're not paying your bills or you got to go in the savings. We laugh now because um, my husband's a dentist and he bought our first like step and repeat backdrop thing because for Luke, Yeah, so what a step and repeat is when you see, like Luke take a picture of somebody and behind Luke it says Luke Bryan or the name of the tour. It's literally just a frame with some kind of like felt or rubber and it's just and you get in front of it and that it's's called a steven repeat because it's like next person up, step, take a picture. Hey, nice to meet, It moves on. So your husband bought that, huh? Because well then what you go though? Right where you go and you've got a lot to learn because it's it's all, it's all the part of an artist career that I think even people don't realize are parts of an artist career. The touring things interesting because you're routing a tour, yes, and with the tour route because you know, I've learned a lot of the stuff with torring to you don't go California than Maine. Correct. You gotta find venues that are open and available, that are nearing like someone else isn't near the market. I mean it's a puzzle, yes, so to Luckily there are other people that help you do that part. But you've got to find the right people though too. Yes, yes, Um. And then we Luke's agent and was a guy named Jay Williams and he's still his agent today from William Morris Endeavor. Um. But I think at that I mean, I don't know exactly, but I think at that point Luke may have been his second client. He had signed Dirk Spentley and he flew down to a show in Luke's hometown because he had heard about this new kid that had gotten signed and he flew down and Um, I don't know, we did. We hit it off with him. It was like a vibe thing. It was just kind of a gut like this guy feels like the gay for us so and he still lives today. So he helped me a lot. I wasn't here when Luke started, Um, I was still in Texas. But was Luke? Was there some heat on him when he was a new artist and people are like, oh this new guy or was he like one of the new artists that It took a bit and he he kind of put some songs down and people like I don't know, Like, what was it like like with Luke in the beginning? Well, the first song we released was all my friends say, and it end up being a top five So you're starting strong, all my friends say. He's like, You're like, both is easy. We gotta figure that out. How do you feel when this song actually has some success? You're a brand new manager? Are you like I made the right call? Like I feel good about it? Which part about being a manager? Yes, all of it. You're like, holy cramp, we got a top five song, got a new artist, like, we're ready to go. Yes, you do feel very proud and very excited for sure. But you know one song doesn't mean you have a career. But you only put out one and you're one for one. Yes, okay, so so very excited. You got a little new artist. This kid from Georgia kind of has a kind of little little twang about him, a distinct voice, a little flate, little little flavors. Get so okay, what's next? Next? Was a heartbreak for us. Um we put out a song called We Wrote in Trucks and it died? How quickly did it die? I think I'm terrible on memories and all that, but I'm gonna say it got in the thirties and our head of promo radio promotion, and at the time, I just felt like he wasn't getting gonna get it up the chart. And the reason it was heartbreaking was when Luke turned in his record. I think I've heard him say so, I'm not miss speaking, but that he believed and I definitely believed like it was his song. I mean at that point, like to me, that was the song that was going to this one launched it. Yes, it didn't. It did not go so well, did not, And I was devastated, really, he was beyond devastated because that was his his personal like baby song like that. I just feel like it was the It just still like if you can and listen to it, I mean, it's funny you play in those those because it's I haven't listened to those in a long time as far as like his voice and it just sounds so different now. But um, but when you listen to the lyric of that song, it was it's very well done and I was just super proud of that lyric and what the message was at that time. And you know, it was called we wrote in trucks, but it wasn't about trucks. It was about life. So that one doesn't do well. So then it's like, oh great, now we got it. Now, now the pressure is on because you just said one just kind of petered out. So what happens, Well, you know that I'll say a lesson I learned and that or that I ended up learning and I looked back on it. Um. I think at that moment when that song didn't work, I remember sitting in the office, I was ranting at Starstruk Entertainment and telling myself, you know what, like I can't just rely on a liaison telling me why that work. Like I want to be able to ask people in radio why that didn't work. But I didn't know them because I was the brand new manager in town that no one knew. So it really became like a kind of a personal mission of mine to figure out how to meet those people and have a relationship with them. So the only way I need to do that was to start going to bunch of shows road and do it. And it's funny, say get on the road because even before I would say you and I have a friendship now, But even before we just worked professionally around each other. You were always with Luke, always with Luke, and I was like, man, she's always with Luke. Well at the time though only he was my only client very very long time. So there was that now when I knew you though because Cole Cole came around about when I came around. Yeah, Actually I worked with Kelly Bannon before that. Um, so she was my second signing. Not Cole was around, but he was around in a different role. Was that right? He was Luke's merch guy. So yeah, which which is funny to talk of. Right, So with Luke, Um, how many songs did he have that didn't work? That was? That was the one? So what was next? Um? Countryman? Okay? What was the turning point for Luke? Where you go all right? Now? We went from being like an artist is on the radio and it's good to like probably do I that he wrote with Charles a day from lady a. Um, that's probably the song that you that you really felt like I was making a turn? Um what this song? Was? There ever a question of who would get it because Charles and you know an artist right together? Because I just had this conversation with um T r because tr Tom Shrutt and um Matthew Matt from Old Dominion wrote some People do Together and they had the who gets it because they both really liked it. Now, I wonder when you talk about do I was that an issue with them? If I remember right, I want to say that Lady A already had their album out, and maybe it was the timing. And you know that those guys were fired up about being writers and stuff too, So I think they were just excited, you know, to have a cut, you know, like I remember the number one party and Charles you know, speaking on that. Just how excited you know, honestly for some reason, I was watching it not too long ago if somebody had a clip up like the last two or three months, but he's saying in that clip, you know, oddly enough, this was almost more exciting for us than our first number one, which I don't know, but they had had I mean, needs you now please write the biggest song on the universe at that time. So they were doing fun. So that's kind of the turning point where like the festival offers, are you now the big bold letters? Does this do that? But you know, Luke's been in my opinion, I think he's always had a strong touring career. That was actually probably a very big benefit to him. He always was fortunate in that field of clubs and selling mout and you know, not maybe not the first time, but like we really we really built that one for a while, club circuit and coming back and coming back and coming back, you know. But then he did a lot of support. I mean, I think our first support slot, I'm trying. I think it was I can't remember if if Trace Adkins took us out first or that I was the one I remember the most being the longest, like real tour was Luke on the front, Bucky Comington in the middle, and Dirk's headline Bucky coming comes playing the middle spot Overlouke. Crazy. The only time I hear Bucky coming now is on the airport when he's like this, Bucky coach, thanks for coming to ben A. No. Where is he I don't know, I haven't haven't even seen him around. And he was an idol guy, right, I think I think he was too. Yeah, from like back in the back of the day. So first time Luke Wins entertained of the year, I mean, you'll make me cry now thinking about it, but it was it was beyond and saying, um, it's that. I mean definitely that you feel like the validation from your peers and co workers and you know, but I think it was even more so just knowing all the hard work that he had put in and just you know how I mean, you don't talk that moment, you know ever, and he and his family have had a lot of unfortunate tragedies, and like watching them in that moment and being able to enjoy that moment was you know, pretty emotional and and um, I mean I was shocked though, I mean, I really the truth be told that year when they were doing nominations and a lot of times you discussed with your label kind of what your things are that your most your important emphasis for the voting period. I told them not to include him an entertainer, Like I literally remember saying that. I'm like, no, we don't need to go there because I mean, truthfully, I hated like as an industry person always, it always bugged me when I thought people were on there and they weren't quite ready to be on there, and I kind of felt like that's where he was, like I didn't, I mean, he was blowing up and I knew that, I felt that, but I still didn't feel like he should be there. And then after the first round when he made the second round, but then as a manager, you're like, well, they put him in there. I'm not going to sit here and not try to support it out. Man. At that point we went to work pretty hard, crazy, just because you were there from the beginning. Like there's just all of that early early sweat is so much more rewarding. It was mind blowing, like our I mean, you know, he's been fortunate enough, he's one to a c M entertainer into c M A but I mean on all four times, you're just overwhelmed because that's again, that's like the that's the Trump. That's like the biggest honor that you can get. You know, in our industry, what's the most frustrating thing about fans with Luke or not even fans critics. Let's go critics, because fans are all the fans love. I have this thing to where I talk to people. I'm like, you can't people just want a voice. People are gonna say things just to be heard and they don't mean it. Sometimes like or I would get irritated for Luke is when they were like hate on him for like the dancing. I mean between the dancing and you know, my favorite term bro country. You know what's funny, I don't even think of Luke as as a broke country artist. Yep. That's they started it with him, and it's so they did okay much, I mean, and then you know, became the thing. And I mean I don't know that I heard him do an interview ever for like three or four years that that didn't come up. It was exhausting. That's funny that that And you're probably right, I felt like it was an fgl thing more than it was a Luke thing, Is that right? And how did he feel about that? Did you just hate it? Yeah? Yeah, he hated it. I mean it's his artistry, it's his you know, livelihood, it's his face, it's everything, you know. So yeah, I mean that's not what when you're out there working that hard and putting that emotion and energy into writing and singing and performing, and then that's the headline as his confident like his his closest person professionally. And I've had to have these confections with people that work close to me like what, how do you because people have to walk me through things, I get a bit emotional or like I create something and it's not How did you talk to him like, hey, man, keep your head down, like keep keep going, don't let us get to you. I mean, he's good about that anyway. Truthfully, he has a good sense of business and he's and I think, you know, I don't know, I'm guessing, but I think a lot of maybe you know, the personal stuff that they've been through tragedy wise as a family, and yeah, it's a lot that's a lot heavier than any of those would ever be, you know, So I think just from those experiences, you know, he's good about trying not to get heavy about that stuff, but there's no way it doesn't, you know, bother you at some point. So yeah, he you know, he would have moments that he would get really frustrated about it or that he was over it, you know, over that being you know, you could to a show and wherever Minnesota and that person and also like you know or you know, they would somehow reference it, but you know, the review would be great, the show would be great, but he would still be in there somewhere referred to as the border country artist. You know, so he I don't know he there was some time. I mean, you know, I don't know what year it was, but it was like the topic, you know, and he would do interviews and you know, a couple of times I would have to maybe stop an interviewer two. And that's your job. You have to be the bad person sometimes all right, we're done my thing. And did you ever have to have me? Do we ever have did you ever have to stop with no one? That was never a thing to me. But like early on, I don't think so, I don't remember. I don't think so. I did get interviewed because people were just they were a bit I was a new guy, and they were a bit like what is this guy up to? But as a manager, you know our town, now you know our town, now I know what well. I just weren't both sides of it. So now you know, I'm doing the interviews, but I'm also being interviewed all the time, and so I also have my manager. There are times where they have to step in and be the bad guy or take somebody out of the room and have an uncomfortable conversation when I they don't want me to be around, and that's your job. You have to be the balancer sometimes, and like I feel like it's one thing to do that early on. It's harder to do it early on because you still feel like you're getting your foot in the door with everybody and you don't want to make it any mad or come off the wrong way. But then there's a certain point where you're just like, all right, this is not the best situation for this client and they need to know. How do you feel like being a female in the male business? Male? It sounds like you're Maleman. I don't mean male is but like a dude, a dude bit or there are a bunch of dudes. How was it for you as you because you are I mean you are strong. I would say early on it was very in country. I have to stay in that lane. I mean, it was management was male driven. I would say, I mean now I feel like it's it's pretty Balentlesce. I mean I think about you know, I mean Mario with Miranda mary Hill, You're with dirks Um and with Carrie Virginia tr I mean there's a good group. I'm sure I'm leaving people out, but just off the top of my head, I mean, there's a good, strong group of females now and honestly, it's been great because we're all very supportive of each other. And I mean there's times at all. I mean I remember probably maybe last fall, TEXI Marion, I'm like, are you in town? She's like, yeah, I'm like, can you meet me? I just needed to vent and like sit with somebody who's you know, on the same side. She's amazing, but you know, she when I think back to her um when I was trying to decide if I was going to go do manage, but she was mean I barely knew her then, and she would always meet me for lunch and give advice and you know, but you know there were I mean Clinton Higham did as well. I Mean I knew Clint through other you know, friends and channels in the business, but you know, he would meet me and you give me inside information of like how to go about something. You know. So I feel like I've always been supportive, but you just like you still just have to work your way through it and in in our town and always I kind of say, I mean, I think from the professional side and the artistry side in our town. My opinion, you know, we're all very you know we're competitive, but you're still very protective. Like you know, I think I said this in an interview recently, but you know, of course, you know I want Luke and Cole with him to be competitive or as competitive as Blake and Jason. But then the day I don't want anybody else talking about Blake or Jason in about ways. It's like brothers or best friends, like like I may beat up, but don't don't like my show even right, I may beat up on Lunchbox, but you don't talk about Lunchbox. I will kill you. Is that kind of deal? So one of the Luke questions, I want to move to Cole. So just about American Idol? How does that even happen? Um? Luke started well, Luke ended up hosting a c MS you start with Blake Um and then with Zarks for a couple of years. Um. So I feel like that kind of maybe open that even the TV door a little bit in Luke's mind. I don't know that he ever set out to do that by any means, but he enjoyed it and it was a lot of pressure even that at the face of that Awards show, and you I think he did it five year or so. I really feel like looking back from year one to five, he did grow a lot and he started getting it and like what he needed to do and what they needed from him. And you know, that's a whole another as you well know, it's a whole another level of I'm not just going on stage and performing. But um, you know, we had gotten he had gotten several offers, you know, for different TV things, and we had passed on a lot, you know, um, and they just didn't feel right or at the end of the day, he just you know, he just kept passing on him. And then this I got a call about American Idol. I truthfully didn't think he was going to be interested, truly, but you know, of course I take it to him and give him the details on it, and he just went, huh. He sat there a minute. I might remember being shocked, like he's actually thinking about this, you know, And you know, you asked a lot of questions, and you know, at that point, I had a ton of questions, like we had never gone into any kind of adventure down that lane, and we just kind of kept talking through it. You know, I'm trying to remember at that point, I don't know that anybody. I'm trying to think if Katie was locked in. I think maybe she was getting close, but I don't know that she was, like had signed on the dotted line to come on. UM. So you were kind of waiting those things out to to see if it made sense. Um. But we just kept talking. We met with them a lot. I mean, it was it was a pretty long process the first time. How's he like doing the show? He loves it? I mean I know the answer to this, but you see it. Yeah, I mean the two of you, you both love it. You both sit backstage and talk about different contestants, and people are so like I liked the people like Trish and like I just like working with the people at IDOL because for me, it's all about one environment of I in it's going to allow me to be at my best, because if I'm not doing something where people are giving me an opportunity to shine or supporting me, I don't even want to do it. I think they do a great job of that. And you know, and I don't know how you felt coming into it the first time, but it's like anything else may. I remember walking into the first after we signed on and getting to the first audition. I mean I felt like Mama bear because I was like, you know, you don't trust anybody when you walk in because you've just learned along the way. Um, and we didn't know you know, we've met him in different meetings, but we don't know him, so you know you go in going oh, um, Katie and Lionel too. I mean there's a dynamic there where those three have to sit up there, and it's hard. It's a lot of working parts and how is it gonna work together? And I know, you know, I don't think even I think about that even when he was hosting until how many Awards shows had I set through through the years. But then when the person you're representing is up there, and again they're the face of it, you start thinking about it differently. But I mean it's a lot of pressure. I mean I think about the three of them up there, and I mean you you as well. I mean, you know, you guys are trying to give guidance and advice, especially during auditions. You know how many kids roll through there, and I mean we tape what ten hours long? And those three set up there and have to be on and you know, you don't want your advice to sound the same. You know, North shut it. It's different people singing. But I mean, that's it's harder than you think, than than I'll ever thought about it until he was doing it. But he does love it. And you know, you guys talk about it when you're not on camera, we do, yeah, well, like I'll and I'll ask them not to. I'll be like, why did you not? Because we don't our rule to we don't only talk about it while it's exactly happening, because I don't want to because I'm with them when they don't see them right, Like judges don't hang out with the I'm with them all the time, and so I don't want to even more inside school. But I'll go to him after they cut somebody and be like, oh, you suck, you screwed up. Like one of the girls, Emma Emma Klein. I was like, why did you cut her? Like she's great? And he's like and he you know, he sees it different than I've seen it there. You know, it's those three and I'm taking her out on the road with me. The whole Aaron Walker are both going out with me the whole YEARK told me that, Yeah, so okay, so let's go back. And you mentioned Luke's merch guy, Cole, and so Cole Swindell, Um, well, Cole has been in our life a long time. Um. He went to Georgia Southern and that's where Luke and Michael's guitar player had gone to school. So they had they were going at you know, back and doing like fraternity parties and stuff. And Cole was in school there. He's you know, he's a few years behind them, and he would come to these fraternity parties and he was just intrigued. He was an of like that. They got up and singing and then I mean Luke and I don't think I was at the fraternity party phase of that, but Luke tells the story of you know, him rolling in to do a show and he had a new song that he had written and just Cole's reaction like you actually wrote it, like you wrote it, and him like realizing like, oh my gosh, you know this guy also wrote the song, like how does that work? And just his he was just i mean cold, just was like the sponge that couldn't get enough of it, and he eventually end up doing like a little duo thing with another guy from you know that he went to school with, and they kind of started doing the little bar circuit thing too. But he was always I mean, there wasn't a show that we did in the Southeast that he didn't find his way to, you know, he would I would look out and be like, oh, there's the cole, there's the cold kids here. I remember the day that Lou called me and said, um now, let me paint the picture. I was a solo like, I had zero employee, zero no help. I had two small children, and I literally would stay up every night probably mean I would get them to bed and then go back to my email, probably told two or three in the morning. We were booking flights. I mean I was booking flights for radio tours and hotels, and I mean it was NonStop. So I don't think i'd I don't think i'd ever been paid yet, which was fine. Um. So I would work with songwriters kind of on the side and pitch their songs and just to have some income coming in, you know, for myself. So that's kind of how I made that work. Then, but I remember the day that he called and said, hey, um, so cold blast the phone with coal and and um, he really wants to move to town. Do you have a job for him? And I go cold, like I remember stop, I go cold, like trying to think about it. And he was like, you know the kid from Georgia. I went no, I don't have a job for coal. I was like, how are we gonna pay goal? And he was like, oh, I just wanted to help him. He was smooth a town. And I'm like, I get it, but we can't pay him, like I don't have a job for him, and we hung up, and he was very Luke was very disappointed. And I sat there in like ten minutes later. I was like, hmm, So I called Luke back and I'm like, well, we do need somebody to sell your T shirts and he would perfect, I'll call you back, and he hangs up and calls him and literally Cole drives the town that night. Wow, he was that fired up. He was that fired up. He was ready to get on the bus. He was ready to go. So we had a bus. We probably didn't have a bus then, actually thinking back and said driving himself to all the shows. Now he's part of the team going to the shows and he's selling March. But okay, so how does he end up telling Luke or or you or whomever. Hey, I'm also like writing songs. We knew that he had the art, you know, the duo things, so that wasn't a secret, you know, but he he didn't, you know, Coles Cole was gonna ease his way in. You know, he doesn't walk in a room and and and demand everyone to know everything. He kind of you know, I think he sat back and kind of watched it and learned, and he didn't do the artist thing for a while. You know. He was probably out with us selling T shirts for probably two or three years before I ever really even saw him. I saw him. Oh yeah, he did it. I mean, yeah, for sure, I mean he did it. Maybe. I mean he probably he was out there with us definitely three or four years selling, But I was gonna say, like, it was a few years in before I saw him actively out there trying to write songs. So he and Michael Carter, Luke's guitar player, started getting in the back of the back lounge of the bus, and Michael wasn't really a writer at that time. He had had like a small deal maybe right when he first lived to town. But I think they just kind of taught themselves how to like they would do it every day. The two of them would sit back there every day and right. And I didn't hear any of the songs. I didn't really ask about him, and I think one I don't Maybe Cole shared one with me and I was like, well, that's that's pretty good. And then he eventually would occasionally share one and I remember hearing like a demo session and there was there was a song in there. I'm not gonna remember the title right now, but I remember thinking that it was like the best thing that he had ever done. And I went and played it for Luke and I was like, hey, I think they're getting the hang of it. It looks like really, let me hear you know, you got all excited and and I mean, one thing I will say about Luke and Cole was the same. They both are are truly champions for other people like they do like I watched both of them want other people to win and have opportunities and they get I mean, Luke gets fired up for new artists and Cold does the same thing and they just love watching people and those and those steps along the way. But yeah, so he was our our merch gods turned guy that's riding the back of the bus. So for you, when do you go, Okay, well, it's an investment for you. He well, he came. I could tell he was really starting to hay me out there, like selling the T shirt part. He was really he had the writer bug bad and um so we pulled him off the road and I went to Luke and I said, you know what, I'm like, he's really doing well. I was like, I think I'm gonna trying to help him find a publishing deal. And then I think at that point I had the idea to go talk to Luke's publisher and just see if they had any interest or any interest of doing something with us or I mean, I didn't really know. I was just talking through it with a guy named Troy Thomason. It's Sony Tree and that is where Luke was a writer. And you know, I remember we went in there and met with him and he's looking at us like, no, we'll make a to do this, and I'm like, Troy, just I mean, I remember, just trust us. Just trust us, please, And he's like, do you know how many deals I've done like this and how they've gone, you know, with writer with artists, and and I'm like, no, but just trust us, you know. And I'm like, we want to sign Cole and Michael Carter and they're gonna they're gonna be amazing. And you know, he really did not want to, but but the relationship was important to him, and he was like, all right, we'll try it. And it has paid off. Well. What was cool? What was the first song that Cole wrote? It was like some had some you know, substance to it that got some radio players something. Um. I think his first cut was Scottie Creery white Water Tower Town. I think that was the first one. And then he had a Craig He and Michael had a Craig Campbell song. Ah, what was the name of it? It literally was the like one of the longest songs on the chart that you can't stop loving. Was it Craig Campbell or Craig They're too Craig Craig Campbell? Um? What was the Craig Because he got right in the middle, so great songm just blanking on it right now. Call's writing, but is he going, I also want to be an artist to you? He? I think he went and did a B M I b M I UM does a retreat at Key West with songwriters, and he went and did that one year, and I think that's when he got in the bug back, like when he and he had a couple of songs that had been hits for other artists and he did that in the reaction and this is it out of my head? But sorry, I out of my head. Yes, that's it. Yeah, yeah, that's cretic. Yeah, this song whenever Craig Cambell got dropped and I dropped, the label thing folded and the song was so good that my company, I Heart was like, we're going to make it on the verge because the song is so good and Craig, what's I remember this whole thing going down? It was and I'm and it ended up I don't know if it ended up being the longest running song, but it was. It was almost sixty weeks, A long time, A long time with Cole as an artist, as you do see him and go, okay, this is the guy who's gonna have a bunch of hits and get up and no, not really, to be honest, I didn't at the time because you know, he's he's a little he's grown into artistry side. You know, he was a little more quiet and he's even now he's so I mean, did I think? But I knew like the songs he was turning in and his writing, that part I knew was great. And he came in UM and played me a song when he had the song called let Me See Your Girl, and I loved it. And I had talked to UM Stormy and then John Marks about like, you know, how does this program work that you guys do and x M At the time John was there and UM they at the time when I asked them that question, f G. I was the only person who had done their program. So I was just kind of inquiring about it because I knew that you didn't necessarily have to be signed and they would support it. You know, it was a little different angle. And he had agreed to UM played the song and but in the meantime, Cole It's texting me, go on, hey, I read this other song. I can't wait for you to hear it. I'm waiting dying for the demo. Da da da da and he just kept talking about it. And one day he calls and he goes, are you in your office? And I go yeah, and he goes, can I swing by? And I said sure. So he comes in and he's kind of nervous and he said, well, I got that song back I was funny about and I said, okay, awesome. He goes, can you can you listen to it? I'm like yeah. So he hands me, you know, his phone or whatever, I think it was a phone at that and I plug it in and I'm just sitting there, head down, listening to the song and he told he tells the story that like that. I have no reaction and I'm not looking at him, and he is panicking because he thinks I hate it, And I get why he would think that looking back, But what I was really thinking the whole time I was listening to the song was oh my gosh, what am I going to do with this? I mean, I really was like, this is so fun and so different and so good. And the song ends, I turned it off and I would turn it and I look at him. I'm like, do you you really want to be an artist? Like you've been on the road, You've seen what they do, You see what it's about, you really want to do it? And he goes, I really do, and I went, okay, because this is the song, and I mean like and then we both literally start jumping up and down in my office. And that song was so crazy, that that that whole how one of them rolls into the other, it was insane, I mean. And and at that time the only artist I had ever shopped a duel was Luke when I was working with Kelly Bannon. She was already signed to a label at that time. But um, you know, I started it. Well, people start calling me because they started seeing the streams and then what was happening and he had no deal and that what a good position to be in. That doesn't happen often obviously in this town. Maybe a little more now with you know, more streaming services, I guess, but um, you know, it was overwhelming. I mean I think end of the day, I think he had an offer from every label but one. And so then I was in a hole. I mean, I'm just begging people to give a Luke a deal and we had one offer one and a half somebody else was about to and I'm like, no, they came to table We're still take this one. But with him it was a different thing, and it was I mean I learned. It was learning something new really, I mean, which is in a fun thing for me personally, like learning. You know, I feel like I don't stop learning, and nor will you ever And if you ever feel like you don't need to, then you're you're done anyway. I mean, like you know, doing a deal for American Idol, like doing a deal on that level, like just what you have to learn to like be in the game. The game is the funny thing. And I wonder because you've done so many things and there are a lot of I get a lot of message from new artists. Intend to listen to this podcast because we get deep into the weeds about songwriting and a lot of the artists come in and talk about, um, you know, second and third layer type things that you don't really talk about on the radio. So what would you say, like, what's what's the key to an artist career? To starting one? It's the angel question, like what advice do you give somebody coming to town? Well, I mean, I think I think it's about one the people you surround yourself with and that they really do believe in you and that you trust them because it is I mean, I talked to all my clients every day of my life pretty much. I mean, you are in the trenches with them, So I mean, make sure you surround yourself by people that I mean, you're gonna make mistakes and you're gonna you're going to be mad at somebody, and somebody's gonna take advantage of you more than likely somewhere along the way of life, you know. I mean, I mean I think, I mean, Luke and Cole both have examples that they would go you know, but you know, you just got to look at it like for some reason that was part of my path and that's what it was. But move on and we'll do the things we can control. I think that's part of it to me, Like it's like stick true to who you are and what you're about and what you want to say. And it goes back to your critic thing. I mean, that was another advice or that I would try to, you know, tell any of them when they feel like they're getting beat up about something, it's like, you know, what all you can do is you and somebody's gonna have an opinion, and they're always going to say something, but be you would be true to you and don't get heavy with it, you know, I mean they're all those phase is I mean you talk, I mean I think about you know, as an artist has their fifth and sixth album, you're always questioning like what do I do next? What I need to do next? You know, And that's good you should always question that. But I think if you get too heavy with it, you'll you'll be in a mess. I don't know. I think I did, not even you definitely did anyway, So what do the if someone's going mad, I think I'd like to be a manager, like they go, I love music, Yeah right, what so what and to convince it sixty seconds? What does a manager even do? In your mind? I mean there, I guess I think of it like there is nothing that happens in that artist career that the manager is not involved in or signing off on or approving, nothing like if you I mean, unless it's something a fan has done or put up, but like anything that you think of a photo, a social post, you know, are they on the show, are they not on the show? Or you know, what's the song? I mean you're involved in every single aspect of what is happening. So it's a lot. You have to be crazy organized and then you're still not organized enough and it doesn't turn off. Yeah, and you have We talked about John Langston. Tell me new artists, um, so tell me about John Langston. John Langston he came into my path probably I guess maybe three years ago. Um. And we had some friends um in Georgia that had some had seen him in the bar circuit there and had mentioned him. And a guy that works for me, Dustin Eiden, he does a head of marketing for my management company. He really started paying attention to him, and he would bring him up to me and you know, kind of hand me a song every once in a while, and you know, I kind of watched it, but I just kind of watched it, like I didn't feel like he was ready even but he was creating this underground something, you know, I mean, like you couldn't deny it. Like I just kept watching it over like two year period, and he got hooked up with Red Aikins who helped him get a publishing deal, and um, I saw his writing get better and stronger, and just saw like more shows he was doing, and he was doing a show at Third and Lindsley here in Nashville, and I was out on the road with Coal, so I couldn't go to it. But several of my staff were going to go watch him and like support him, and I don't. I really did not. I did not talk to one person in my company about this. But I was sitting on Bran O'Connell's bus, who's a promoter um for Live Nation. I was sitting on his bus um pre Colt's performance, and I couldn't stop thinking about John was about to go do this show and Nashville that night, and I was kind of bombed. I wasn't gonna be able to see it. And I just FaceTime and was like, I'm just calling to encourage you until you're gonna do great and I'm excited for you. And by the way, how would you like to work together? Like I did not tell a soul. It's just I couldn't shake get sitting there. I'm like, it's time, Like I've kind of watched him for two years and it's time. So that's kind of where that started. Um, and you know, he flips out and was like really, yeah, yes, yes, you know, so it was kind official that night and we just kind of kept building him the same. I mean he was he was green. Um, so we worked on you know, he worked on his songwriting and he you know, like the other guys, I really do feel like I've been fortunate with them, Like they do well on the road, and you know, he sells out like every club he plays, and he does has a great underground following, and um he came and did Luke's Farm tour, um twenty what year went last year? Guest year before? So seventeen and at that point we were, you know, starting to talk to labels about you know, him getting a record deal, but nobody was really moving on it. And I was like, Lucas, like these numbers are crazy. I'm like, we put out a song of his called when it Comes to Loving You and he has no he's never been on the radio, he has no label deal, and my management team put together a plan to release the song, and I mean he was number one all genres over the weekend that we put it out, and I'm like, you know, that doesn't happen. You don't go on iTunes and sell that many singles unless you've built something. So he did that, and you know, Luke was like blown away by that, and um, I had already been talking to a couple of labels about him, and looks like I need to figure it out. I'm just gonna fiure out how to sign him. So Luke kind of went out prematurely and offered him a deal, and we had no label. So I'm standing there going, what are you doing. He's like he's walked off the stage. He goes, Linkston, give me, I'm getting your record deal and I was standing there going, you can't do that. You don't have a label. So I quickly went figured out how to get him a label. So now we have thirty two Bridge Entertainment, John Linkston as Sandinger with EMI and how Picture staff now not big enough, right? A good problem to have, though it is. I think there's like seven of us. You're still in starstruck. No, actually the mall grown up and bought a building. How my own office? Now, where's where's the building? It's in Barry Hill. You bought a building. It was time, it was time. It was time. Only people who has built like you have. You have a building. I don't don't come on like that. I'm saying it like that. You know what annoys me for you sometimes and I hope you you you know I love you too, write like completely, so I want to When people will say she's one of the best women, I'm like, you, guys, out of your mind, she's like the best, so I put put stop tagging it with a male or female thing like when I when when I see them, they're like, she's want of you know, the best female. I'm like, if you guys, man, she's one of the best managers. And that is still weird to hear. I mean, I don't know, it's weird to I mean, you know, fortunately, you know a couple of our industry magazines do there's power player lists and all that, and and you know when that when you're on that, like you're like what what does what excuse me? Yeah? But I really don't think of it like that. I mean I really do. I know this is going to sound cheesy, but I swear to you I love every minute of this and I love what I do and I love I mean from nothing sounds cheesy right now, I don't want to be but it truly is like from now when I got that internship and I did not leave Arista Records, like I still feel that way, like every day, like if I'm not if I went't in class, I was trying to figure out to get down there and do work and learn something. And I really still feel that. I still get excited, like nothing is. I mean, there's exciting moments like crazy milestones. You know, people play they opery and you watch, you know, you watch the joy of your clients in these moments and you're sharing in that and that those are overwhelming. You know, it really is. But I don't know that. I still get just as excited when someone comes and hands me a song that you know, like cold it with chilling it, Like I have a song I want you to hear by the way, Okay, I bet that's kind of That's the thing too, because I deal with that as well, where people are just trying to get you music in the most random of ways. But I love it. But there are times Okay, good, I'm glad you love it because it's great blah blah blah blah blah, when someone like gets in your personal like there will be times where all valuate my car and people will leave stuff in my car, Well, I'm not as famous as you. It's true in a different way, like if you're far more valuable in that lane than I am, if they do, you have a totally different reach to and you have a totally different strength. Okay, we're just gonna agree to disagree on this one. Um well, listen at Mike, how long have we done here? On? Almost an hour ten? We don't ever do them this song. I'm telling you this has been I was so loo I only I didn't even reach out to you personally because it's the whole dynamic for me and professional about Well, here's why, because I don't go to people that I know know and ask them to do anything professionally, because like that's a that's a different avenue. Like I would call you and be like, hey, uh, we're in l A. What the hotel? You don't get somebo to eat? I would text you or like the greatest about you gave me a piece of life advice that you that I don't even know, that you don't even know the change in my life. You said you should go to Disney disney Land. We were we were after idle after I don't want and h since we worked for a see there's a hook up with Disneyland, and I had just gone yeah, and we we were together, and you were like you gotta go. And then when I heard you had never never been like, I wanted to take you right bit, and so of course you couldn't because you had to know the things to do. Like a week and a half later, I called and when I gave you the name, like the whole hook up, well, no, we we introduced you. That's right backstage on the press line, and you're like, this is the guy and you got to know this guy. And you were so adamant that it wasn't like I wasn't putting anyone out like You're like do You're like you're working for ABC. This this is even away from the guys. You're like, dude, just do it, Like this is the one thing. You're like, I know you don't want to just do it? And I did. It was awesome. I had to go do no lines. It was the greatest thing ever. It was feel ridiculous, but it's it's it's life changing to it. You feel ridiculous cutting line everyone, but you feel less ridiculous than you feel more relieved that you have white in line the whole time. Definitely, so definitely, and then you know that you've worked hard to get that relationship in some way, right, you know, I just have to understandable. I'll be honest with you. When I was going on Space Mountain, I was like, you know what, thank God for Carrie. Um. Well listen, I um, I am happy to see your success. It's it's it's And my point was I wouldn't ask you to do I don't know. I think I went to Mike, who did you? Who did you talk to to get to carry? How did you? How did you get asked to do this? My manager? Because I didn't want to reach It's like even now, I would say two years ago I would have been like, hey, Luke, come do the show. I won't do that now because I just feel like we're on a different level and I wouldn't watch my friends to do stuff for work. And you're also you know, like you said in the beginning, you have two roles in this town, in this life, so you also know what it's like to kind of not be put on the spot. And if any means that like that, but you know, it's it's good to have the buffer yeah, and that's why I didn't want to ask you. Just for the record, I don't think I've ever done someone's podcast, So that means I like you a lot, I appreciate it comfortable enough to come here. I was like, okay, I was okay, Sure, I was. I was excited that I was surprised and excited. They said yes, and I didn't make I went to Mike, who went to my manager Tom Lord, who went to you. So when it came all the way back, because that's what that does is gives you an opportunity to say no without because if I were like, hey, Carrie, come over to the house of the podcast if you don't want to do it, there's an awkward step in there. And it's not for everybody, you know, but it should be. This is a great podcast in general. People don't like to like you know, so I don't do I don't do it a lot, but we can kill and over an hour we did. Now didn't feel like we didn't even talk about all my clients. We didn't. We didn't. Who else do you want to mention? Who are the who are the young the young boys, young kids, Christian Clementing and Brady Clementing CB thirty. How am I getting old or they like nine? They are younger, but they are eighteen and fifteen. Okay, I'm getting older. So they are. But when I first signed him, they were twelve and they were Yeah. So we've been we've been grooming them along the way. But they are now signed to Buena Vista Records, which is one of the Disney labels, go back to the Disney connection. Um. So, yeah, they just put out a song, Um, I think two weeks ago called that Moment When and we haven't really done like the official radio thing, but um, please go listen to it. It's fun. They've really they've grown a lot. So. And then Adam Curran you've had on the show before. Um, he's on Broken Bow and he I've played festivals Adam before too. He came up and he's played with us before. Yeah, yeah for that. Yeah. So he has a new song called um if You're Lucky and I love it. Have you heard this? You need to go listen. It's really fun. I'm gonna play it right now. Actually perfect, not the whole thing because we'll get sued. I know, nothing sues us because we put a song on a podcast Nothing and so and I like I like Adam Craig a lot. I didn't know, I didn't know what's what's what's the plan with Adam? Well, we just released this song, so, um we released that. We really released two at the same time, but this, this is the one that went to radio a few weeks ago. We love that releasing too at the same time too. I'm such a fan of put more out there. It's so hard to connect because you have ten thousand things coming in ten thousand directions. If you can get something that just somewhat kind of hit somebody you want and so the more music you put out there, and labels are getting more open to it now, so it's it's becoming a little more of the norm than it was, you know what a year ago. Um. So, yeah, they were real receptive. We put this out in another song called whatever You're Drinking Too. He had a new producer on this stuff. Um, so we're excited about it. He's I mean, honestly like this guy's voice. He's one of the best vocal performers like that I've ever heard. And definitely, you know, he's just he's just a good human being to so you want him to win, so I'm gonna work hard. My final question is, I was watching um on Netflix? What's the public show called Mike Narcos? Was watching Arcos? Right? I haven't watched it? Okay, well you don't need to. But they have these money machines. They probably cashed it and it counts it. How many those you have at your house? Could? I'd be good? You are? No? No? I imagine that, like you walk over and it's like, it's just that is terrible. All right, listen, we'll end on that. UM, thank you for having me. No? Are you kidding? This has been so fun for me. I guess I'm in shorts and slippers and maybe like one out of fifteen of these I get to do that to go eat some or something. Um, if you haven't heard of him, Luke Brian check them out. Probably have Cole Swindell. Maybe hadn't heard him either. UM. We just Adam Craig, John Langston and CB thirty. What's what's they stand for? By the way, it is the first and then short Christians and then Brody and then thirty. They were both both of their birthdays are on the thirtieth of a month, so you know it's hard to come up with a name for bands and creeps, but that's what we landed. Even for me have a stupid name, ever, it's hard to come up with her name. Bobby Bone, the stupidest name ever. Um okay, episode one, Thank you, carry, thank you all right, see everybody next time. M hm hm