The Most Dramatic Fantasy Suites in Bachelorette History?

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Speaker 1: What's a Bachelor Happy Hour, Listeners, I'm back Puffren and I'm Michelle Young, and we are so looking forward to being back with you this week for a double whammy to talk about both of the episodes this week on The Bachelorette and of course the ongoing journeys of our girls Gabby and Rachel. And it's time for Fantasy Sweet People. There's so much that has happened during Gabby and Rachel's Fantasy Sweet's Week that they actually had to split the show up into two different episodes. Yeah, I have to say, I think this was the most wild fantasy this Sweet week we've seen a long way down and we are going to get into all of that. But before we do that, I mean, like Michelle, you remember in your season, this is like truly the week that changed everything, Like it was your first time you were alone with your guys. And I mean we're really seeing both women's relationships shift with these men. I mean, I feel like these men are just dropping like flies. So there's a lot, there's definitely a lot to dissect with all of that. But in the meantime, first let's do a little check in. It's been a week since we've seen each other and have caught up. So what's going on with you? Hey? Yeah, I mean I'm wrapping things up in Minnesota. We have the State Fair. Oh, so I'm gonna be there this week. I know, I'm already preparing to have a stomach ache for a few days because of how much food I eat. Just preaking with pepto Bismo absolutely, yep, sponsors in your bag. You'll be Seismo. Yeah, I have a good brand partner for this month. But then just you know, kind of tying up all my loose ends before I had to la for the next few months. So I'm so excited. I'm so excited for you to be out here. I'm also very jealous about you going to the State Fair, because unless you're a Minnesota local native like you, no one can truly understand like the holds that the State Fair house on Minnesotans. It's like the biggest thing of the year, truly, like the most random, cool, crazy, unique culinary experience. So please let me live vicariously through you and everything. I'm gonna taste and rank all the new foods and everything. But also like even not even outside of Minnesota though, it's like the number. I don't know if it's the number one or the number two state Fair in the entire US. It's the place to be, Yeah, it really is. How about you you need to fill us in, though you need to fill us we have so well, we have so much to cover today, man, so much. I mean, life's the same, nothing new with me. We're still working on the house. Thomas is still with the mistress um working on that house. We finally have closet space, which is incredible. But yeah, we've just been It's been super hot here in California. I feel like I've never heard people talk about the weather so much being here. So when you move out, like get ready for a heatwave, leave all of your cold weather clothes behind. You will not need them. That's not an issue. But like how hot are we talking? I mean, like San Diego gets hot obviously in southern California, but like because we're still coastal, you always get this nice breeze. It's like never ungodly hot, but like it's been like in the nineties these past couple of days. This weekend, like this past weekend was like pushing one hundred. Oh, so get right and when you come to California, You're going to be more in the valley, which is even hotter, so just be warned. Okay, But Michelle, I really want to talk to you about Fantasy Suites because obviously we're in the midst of that with Gabby and Rachel, but it was not so long ago that you were in their shoes and you had your own week of Fantasy Suites, and talk a little bit to our listeners about like kind of where your mindset was both like when you were a contestant on Matt Season going into Fantasy Suites versus when you were the lead, because it's like pretty pretty different. Yeah, exactly, it is. It is so different, and it's just such an odd experience because when you're going in as a contestant, you're very aware that you are dated or that the lead is dating several people, so you know that you're not the only person that's there, and so call it an open relationship, you know, in the real world, whatever it's you know, labeled as right, you are aware that there are others that are involved, and so I think what's really weird to go into it is that just because you know that and that you chose experience doesn't always make it easier, now, does it make you kind of put you in a place where you like you kind of have to just accept it if you're going to continue, Absolutely, because that's part of the deal. But like as a contestant side, you know, my fantasy suite, like going into it, my fantasy suite was first, and for me that was kind of it's it's just tricky because it's like you have your night and you get to a certain point and then you're like sitting and like twiddling your thumbs for however many days you know go on, and it's just like there's time to overthink. But then when you're the last person, then you know that everybody else who you know, had that fantasy night before you, like you, I don't know, Like it's just it's such a weird and odd situation as a contestant. When you so when you were a contestant during Fantasy Sweet Week, where like where was your date? Where did you line up? Were you the first? Middle I was the first? You were the first? Yeah? Our date was like, um, what do we do? We did like this really really weird like Norwegian spa, so we're like spreading butter over each other's bodies like grease. You know, it's so romantic, you know, sexy, super super But but yeah, so that I was first, and I will say that like and going from hometowns two, people don't realize like how much time potentially is in between. Because if you have the very first hometown or two and not until the last Fantasy suite, like you could go a week and a half two weeks without seeing your lead, like one of the guys on my season went close to two weeks, and the like I will say, kind of affected the outcome of everything. And it's always interesting too because you kind of always, like, I mean, you've watched the season now for a little bit, you kind of know what to expect, and if there's a contestant who's like very much so in their head, I kind of already know like, Okay, they're gonna be the second or last fantasy suite, like they're going to kind of push it to the limits a bit and like make them waited out a bit longer. I remember going into Fantasy Suites as a contestant that week being so this is gonna sound bad, but like so confident that I was like, it's me it's a done deal. He's gonna send the other two girls home. I was like such a weird mindset that I was like, I'm on vacation right now. Like sure, i get to see my like my boyfriend one night and like have some alone time with him, but I'm just on vacation, just chilling. Like it wasn't too stressful until my XX showed up and that's where like shit really hit the fan. It was like a weird time. But but but when you're the lead, it truly and we always talk about like how you have to compartmentalize relationships, but that week especially, you have to really compartmentalize because it's the first time you're ever alone and you can never have certain conversations with these men, and so you really have to put everyone not in a box, like I don't want to say like in a box, but like keep them separate, you know. I fully feel like that too. I have an interesting question for you about fantasy suits. Give it to me. So, okay, so there's the it's not even a social stigma, right of like you know, there's there's physical activities that you know that can take place, but also like fantasy suits, it's like you go into it, you're not having a conversation where there's no cameras around, and like so many of those things, it's just more fluid, right. Was there a certain topic that you were like, I want to talk about this if you're comfortable saying I want to talk about this topic going into like fantasy suits because a lot of people choose that time to talk about um finances, like religion, you know, things of that sort. Um. I'm not going to give any detail away because I'm not even gonna let people run with it. But for one of my guys, there was, Yeah, there was one thing that I first sure was like I need to talk about and like just say and get it out there. And and now looking back there I would have done things a thousand times differently, like I always joke about like you know, if I were to do this again, which I would never, but I'd be like who did you vote for? What about this? Like what are your political skals? How do you feel about X y Z? Like there's so many more things Like I feel like when I went into it, a it's like you're excited, right because this is the first time you were alone and it's been two months since you've really been like able to get super physical or intimate with somebody two months plus. Like I was just like ready for it, like ready to be alone, ready to like get the cameras away, like and it was just like socided. It was so fun. It's like you prop in champagne, you're eating chocolate. You can do whatever you want that Like, I went into that mindset where I was like, I just want to have a good time, right like, and now looking back, there's so many more things I wished I would have talked about, which is why then going into Paradise, I was like, if I start to like somebody, I'm for sure going to have these conversations, so I can kind of shift the mindset then. But I mean, yeah, it's like you can really use that time to your advantage to do whatever you want whatever. And everyone we have talked to multiple leads who have utilized their time vastly differently, Like there are some people who didn't even talk, and then there are people who only talk. It's like it's kind of up to you. Oh god, there was one other thing. Oh, this is what I wanted to ask you. Did you go into a fantasy suite? With any of your guys or maybe multiple thinking it was gonna probably be one way, like thinking it's going to be the best overnight, this is going to be so great for us, and then the next day not necessarily feeling like that and feeling kind of off, kind of like I guess how Rachel and Zach seemed to feel where you were like, Oh, I so expected it to turn out a different way. Okay, I expected to go into Fantasy Suites with coming out of it feeling like thinking that one of them was going to go really wrong or like just have that like this is not the person, you know what I mean, This is not what I wanted to learn from it. But then I came out of it and that didn't happen, So that was more. My shocker is the fact that it almost made it more difficult because of you know, I was able to get to know everybody as I was, you know, as I needed to. So, but what about for you? Oh yeah, for both of them. Yeah. I went in to one of them being like, it's a done deal, I already know who I'm picking this season, it's going to be so great to be alone, and then coming out feeling like a little bit off, and then for another being like, you know, it's like going to be fun whatever it is, what it is, and then being like, wow, that was so much more than I expected, right, Like it was very It was like the first time where I, like the entire season, I thought it was going to be one way, one person, and that was the week where it finally was like, oh, I could have been wrong for these past eight or nine weeks whatever week we were in, and now I really am down to the wire and only have one week left, and what the fuck am I going to do? So that's what I feel like. There's one thing that I'd want viewers to know. It is how fast emotions gen only change. And like when we you know, you see leads that are saying you know what I mean, like that are falling from multiple people, but then like, aren't you know sure still like continuing. It's because it's like you literally have one conversation for fifteen minutes or one overnight, whatever it is, and though your whole world is just like shifted, it's it's so odd. Then it's such an odd like just experience to explain. Yeah, well and that's let's get into Rachel and Gabby's experiences, not that like I can't even see, like they say their experiences because we weren't there, but like what we saw, because like every time I'm trying to watch both of these women and their interactions, I'm trying to like put myself back in that mindset and like put myself in their shoes to like try to you know, sift through like what they were maybe thinking, and like I kind of have like my ideas of how everything transpired with these men. So like, let's just start from the beginning, first episode Fantasy Suites. Let's just call it part one. We're in Mexico, it's love Lee. We start out with Gabby and Eric, and like we don't even really need to talk about the day portion. Their night portion was great. They seemed to have a good overnight. It wasn't really until like he showed up later where things got rocky with Eric. But since the beginning, Eric has been Gabby's front runner, like chemistry has been off of the charts. But this is like the first time where we start to see Eric really get in his head just imagining what she's going to be doing and talked about with these other men. What were your thoughts on like seeing him. I don't even watch his spiral downward because I wouldn't say it's that, but just get in his head so much, I think, what's okay? So when I like when I was watching it from my perspective, this is the first time that he's going through an experience like this, Like there is there is not a always like a perfect way to handle it or handle every single situation. And it's like, I think a lot of times we sit and watch and we expect these contestants to not have the emotion, and like that's not necessarily true. It's just you have to be able to acknowledge it and how you control it or how you work past and work through it. And I think by the end of the time, they had their conversation where he where he was vocal and said that I wanted this to be a positive thing about him, just you know, feeling heard of, like this is really scary for me, you know, and but him apologizing that it came off, you know, negatively, but also with Gabby's reaction, it seemed like they had spoken about a different like depth of things, and so it was really hard for me to even like read who would I don't even know if there's someone's in the right someone's in the wrong. Well, it was a very hard situation for viewers because we I didn't get much context. The only thing we're really going off of is like they apparently talked about something much more in depth when they were alone, understandably so, and then he brought it up in some sort of vague way again that we don't have any contacts, we don't know any details. So I guess, like only going off of what we know and what we saw, if you were in that situation, like, how would you have reacted? Like? It obviously jolted Gabby a lot to the point where she's like, I need a minute because we've already talked about this, and then it made her feel very uncomfortable. Okay, So okay, So I'm going to throw a question back to you. When you were watching it, did you become more focused on like where both of their feel like on their feelings about each other, or did you become more focused on the fact that the conversation was about having conversations on camera off camera, because like, that's what I got distracted by. No, for me, it wasn't necessarily that it was more so well, my main takeaway, to be honest, was more so Gabby's reaction and the word she was choosing to say of like this feels off. Now this doesn't sit well with me. I feel like he's kind of pushing me into a corner. Like it's a lot of like what I would say, like trigger words and maybe red flags for me as like a viewer or a friend or just like watching a woman say these things where I'm just now like, listen to your gut. If something feels off, it probably is. That's where I'm very hesitant. It's more so like her now going through these emotions of like why are you bringing this up again? I feel back into a corner. I feel like you're pressuring me. And that participants that he gave her an ultimatum. I would I mean, I don't know enough because I don't know the whole conversation, but from what I saw, I would say, no, I don't think he was saying you can't go into these other overnights, and she obviously still was going to explore them, and she and I think what was a good thing for her since the beginning was like I want to explore every relationship to the end, whether we get get to another overnight or not, let me make that decision on my own. And I think he understood her enough to know she was going to do that regardless. But it was more so like I don't I don't even know, I I don't even want to say. It was like he needed to be validated again. I think it was just like he's struggling. I get it, but like, also, if it's something you've already talked about and kind of worked it out alone, leave it at that, like she knows how much you're struggling, and she knows it's hard. She was in your shoes last season. I think it was more so like I think the overall situation just kind of rubbed me the wrong way. Because if he wanted to go into it and you know, just like see her and hug her and be like, hey, I miss you, I love you, have a good night, that's one thing. Obviously that's not what was executed. And so for her to then leave that second conversation feeling off and feeling pressure, that's where I just has a human I'm like, listen to that, like you're feeling that, listen to that yeah, gosh, yeah, yeah, no, I completely agree with with what you're saying. Just at the end of the day, it's kind of just her body language and how she was responding to it. But then it did seem like he kind of responded back and adjusted. It's just it's such an emotionally high time too. It's like you go into it where I'm sure he wanted to go and see her and just you know, feel that and was like I you know, I love you or just all these different feelings and then it was just like wa, yeah, like it just and she had already gone through like to take everything into consideration, she had already gone through a shitty day, like she had to say goodbye. Well she didn't have to, but she chose to say goodbye to Johnny early. She's already dealing with that breakup. Now add on this surprise that didn't quite go as plain. It's a lot to tack on in the same day. It's a lot for her and he didn't know that. So it's not like a consult him because he had no idea. That's not on him. But it was just a lot and I think, you know, like in certain situations it's better better to be alone, you know, you don't always have to see somebody be like I love you. Yeah, And I think just giving her the space to make her decisions, yea, then it's her journey. Well, and that's exactly what she said. That's what I have in my notes is at the end of the day, we can have our thoughts and opinions and we can say we would have done something differently. But she even said it. She's like, if I'm going to pick Eric at the end of this, that's my decision, and like that's on me, and just respect that. And I appreciate that she said that, and I hope, I mean, even for us, like we could take that to heart because you know, like we don't have to appreciate a situation, but we're not the ones living it anymore. Exactly, so exactly, Okay, let's get into the next couple of fantasy suites. Rachel and even went, fine, nothing really stood out to me there, no, But I want to ask you this because I feel like they've always had just like such an easy, chill, you know, happy go lucky relationship, but like we don't see a ton of them because there's really no conflict, right like there's no drama, so it's not like taking up a lot of our showtime. So I want to ask you this, because we see how how exuberant rachelists with some of the other men. How do you think her and Avan's relationship compares to her relationship with Tino and Zach. I feel like it's comfortable, Like it's just it's being the bachelorette or a part of the experiences. It's a really uncomfortable journey, right, a lot of pushing outside your comfort zones, and when she's with Avan, it just kind of seems comfortable, like a reminder, very normal. But I even noticed in this past episode when they were going on there overnight like day date, she when she was speaking about even she said attractive, you know, but then like personality and I want to know, like good guy. But I feel like that's kind of all we know about him. We don't know too much. Again, could be from what we're not seeing, but it is really really easy. I just don't know how much depth there is to their relationship. And I think that's where you know, that's where I'm holding up. There's nothing wrong with it, but there's just not depth. It's just not, I would say, as if you were, it doesn't seem to be on par with how she feels with Tino and how she feels and it's with Zack, right, it's like you know, like you know, because if we've watched seasons, you kind of know, like who for sure the front runners are like, oh, for sure it's going to make it to the end, and like here I can see it's so much more clearly of her being with Zach or Tino and not necessarily even there's just so much more passion there. Yeah, I say, I agree, And maybe that's because he's this other guy we're going to talk about, Baron Jesse Calton, very passionate. So let's get into Tino. Yes, okay, Oh where do we start? Okay? So we're gonna gonna set this up for you. So they go a horseback reading through the jungle. Um bucket list day for Rachel, But she's also really really in her head about Tino's family not liking her and so um really not liking her, And I, okay, I want to stop and ask you what would you do in that situation? Because you've gone through hometowns and you saw that hometown happen, how long do you or how much weight does the family carry. That's a great question because I think if you're dating somebody in normal life, it holds so much weight because you have more time to explore a relationship individually and explore a relationship with the family before potential engagement. In this scenario, because everything is so sped up and so heightened, it's difficult, but like it holds a lot of weight because you don't just marry somebody, you marry their family. And like, if I'm very family oriented, like my mom and sister are my best friends, so that holds a lot of weight to me. And not everyone has that relationship with their family, but for me personally, it would mean a lot, And like it would be very tough, not even for me, but like to put that on my partner if like say say I was Rachel and say I knew Tina was the one at the end of this, like I would that would be tough for me to put him in that position with his family where you know, I would know maybe they wouldn't accept this decision, but I would also then just hope for the best and hope that with time they can learn to accept and respect our relationship and accept and respect me. Right. Yeah, it's like you have to understand that it's your family and it's a very serious decision, and it's also a lot to actually understand the whole entire process and journey. And then when you usually meet them, you haven't seen them, you haven't spoken to them, and they're seeing this whole new, vulnerable side of you, and it's like you have but you also have to have this like inkling, like some inch of okay, they are going to accept me in the future, because at the end of the day, they should be like, with whatever you choose, you know, we want you to be happy. And so doesn't mean that necessarily like yeah, you get engaged, like the family isn't just all of hiss headed not going to have doubts because track records whatever you want to call it. But also like you have to see that they're willing to put in the work to understand and accept you as well. Right, And I'm not sure if Rachel feels that with Tina's family. Yeah, well, my what I really took away from that conversation is like when Rachel is addressing Tino about his family and how she feels like they didn't accept her, They wouldn't accept her. He seemed to be so clueless. And I don't want to say he's clueless, but like in regards to the situation, he aemed very clueless and shocked that his dad especially said certain things to Rachel, which in my mind of like where was the disconnect? Because was the family not relating that same information to Tino. Did he just not choose to see it or hear it? Like there was such a disconnect that I'm like, you guys all have a lot more to talk about and get on the same page before potential engagement, because like it's not just like she felt like they didn't like her, It's like certain things that were said to her that should have also then been said to Tino from his family. I feel like I feel like I want to have him on the phone. I want to ask him him watching his family or his you know, his home, visit hometown to visit back. I want to know like what things or what disconnect he saw or sees or still sees, or just his thoughts on how he felt it went, and like is he just not acknowledging them and is just not a big deal or is a completely different message related like you said, Yeah, It's just it's like I understand there's lines of miscommunication that happened in any conversation. I have it with Thomas all the time or with my mom, like, but this is a big one where he went into being like Rachel, they liked you, they'll embrace you if it's us at the end and she's like, no, your family flat out said x y Z to me, where I know that they probably wouldn't. So it's like, what are we missing? It was just and again, there's so much that we missed that we just didn't see. I mean, I'm sure the conversation with his family and then with Rachel and Tino together went on way longer than we saw. There's a lot that we just aren't privy too. And that's okay, but I can only piece together what I'm seeing as a viewer, and I was just like, where is this disconnect in communication? Yeah? But but it was also like it was it was not. I mean, we were very much uncomfortable at watching it as Rachel was still uncomfortable, you know, So it wasn't like Rachel was like, oh yeah, this is like all great Rachel's just like, oh shit, this is still not exactly, you know, necessarily what I want. But but regardless of all of that, though, we still saw her tell Tina that she loves him. What were your thoughts, like, were you surprised to hear that? Um? Yes, I was surprised to hear that she said I love you. Not because I didn't think that she didn't feel it. I just think that she sometimes has been very disguarded with her words of you know, what to say or how to navigate certain situations. And so that's where I was just like, wait, it wasn't even a I'm falling in love with you. It was like I'm there with you. Correct, Like I'm there, I'm here right now. Yeah. So I was like, okay, all right, Rachel's where are you? What are your thoughts were you? Were you happy when you're when you heard Rachel tell Tina as she loves him? I don't know if happy story? Um, I mean it is what it is like at the end of the day, this isn't my relationship. This is somebody else's. There's a lot that I don't know and feel, and so I mean, like for me taking it back to my own experience again, like I was only going to tell one man at the end of my season that I loved them. I wasn't going to say to anyone else before that very last day, and that was my decision. And she's cheasing not too and that's totally fine, like I didn't yeah, but but also too for me just being like a critical fewer here, I'm like, you got a lot of work work to do, like with the family too, So just like be a little bit guarded. That's okay. I don't know. I mean I want to, okay, what protective of her? Well for both of them, you know, it's like we know them now, we love them. They're incredible women, and it's like you want the best for your friends. It's just but okay. One thing more in regards to Tina that I want to ask um, and this is this is now fast forwarding to like the very end of the second episode, but like still in relation to Fantasy Suites, all three of Rachel's men are like on different pages, right, Like Tina walks in with Jesse being like, well, okay, let me start back up. Zach walks in with Jesse being like, I'm super unsure fantasy Suites didn't go as well as I thought, Like, I'm very confused now, even walks in being like, yeah, it was great, cool, feel good, like I've been this entire season. See you soon. Then Tina walks in and is like, and maybe I'm just picking apart certain things that were said that rubbed me the wrong way. But he walks in being like, I executed that flawlessly. It went so well. I couldn't have planned it better. Certain verbiage that just like for me kind of gave me like the ache a little bit that I'm just like, did you have to execute alone time flawlessly or could you like, were you still yourself? That's where I'm like, just as a viewer left very confused, you uncomfortable. Yeah, I think that anytime somebody uses the word execution when you're talking about relationships and being vulnerable, it sounds like you have an intent, like an intention to act a certain way, and it's like you can plan where you can, you want things to go well, you want to talk about certain things, you plan to talk about certain things, but when you execute it, it's calculated, and it's like that's just not a word that we use to describe like being yourself, authenticity, falling in love, vulnerability, like this execution execution in it yeah, not the right word is yes, I yeah. It's like we're not giving a business presentation here. We are, you know, hopefully finding a lifelong partner. So it was either it was either a misuse of a word or miss miss intentions or not the correct intentions again, which is something like if we can have him on the podcast eventually, I would love to pick his brain and have him explained. But because I'm sure I could imagine maybe him watching this back he's like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have said that, or maybe I should have held off. I wanted to try to give people the benefit of the doubt before we talk to them always, so I would be very intrigued to hear his side. But moving along to some of the next fellas. You know, Johnny, we don't really need to get into he left. I'm sure we'll see him on the beaches of Mexico some other time very soon. Signar Johnny Jason back. Yes, So Jason is another interesting fantasy suite overnight that we not we haven't necessarily seen. Two things we haven't necessarily seen somebody so uncomfortable by the cameras before. True, But also if you think back to Jason's hometown date, he did talk to his family about he's not sure if he can get there, Like he said that to his family when they asked him if he was ready to be engaged. Right, yeah, so he did express that, correct, but but but not to Gabby. He did to his fan to Gabby, right, But he did have those feelings. So the fact that he was continuing to have those feelings, I wasn't necessarily surprised that he was continuing to have those feelings, but the fact that being I mean us being in those situations. You know how much you talk about an engagement, so if you're not ready for an engagement, that is something that gets pointed out like right away when those feelings begin. So I was very kind of just surprised that he made it to this point after so clearly knowing and really feeling like he can't get there, right, And we see the differences between Gabby and what she's thinking with him versus what he's thinking, like she ever started the first episode of this week being like I know Eric and Jason are there with me, Like I know how they feel. I know, you know, I can see an engagement and being love at the end of this to him being like, I can't get engaged, and I don't necessarily think it's like I guess for me, it was interesting because we haven't necessarily really seen an overnight like this where they go into it being like, let's spend this alone time together to see where we can get and I you know, usually if you have that time, you would expect feelings and emotions to grow, and conversations to be able to expand, to get to the next level, And this one was one where it really lessened. Like he left that fantasy suite not not only being like, you know, I can't get engaged, but like we're not going to work out. Like it really digressed, Which that was the surprising part to me is it wasn't just like, you know, I really like you and I could see a future with you. I just can't get engaged. It ended of like you aren't for me and this is definitely not going to work out. Do you feel like it could have had the chance to go the other direction because overnight, okay, you're not spending a week with this person, right with no cameras, Like you're spending what is it like eight hours? Maybe it's not eight twelve okay depending on the man. Yes, it's right. And so I was just like that that time that I do do understand stepping away to get to your thoughts in place in order, but like spending the night in two separate rooms, if you're like emotionally already at that spot where you already know like, yes, this is my person, like if it's like a beliefs thing, totally get it. But like I think I would just would have stayed and talked through, continue to talk through so much more to to decide in that moment, honestly, because it's that's so much time that I feel like it's like left that you could use to work through, not not work through it as in work it and make it better, but to like also talk there and be like this person, yeah, this person at it? Or would you have split too? That's where I'm like, I'm trying to think about would you split and go into different different rooms or not? I probably would have just left on my own. Then I would have been like I don't want to stay here. You can out of this room, Cinara. But I guess, like, Okay, this is an interesting situation because it's not like Jason gave Gabby an ultimatum, but he did say, you know, like I like you, I don't see an engagement at the end of this. I can't get there. We've seen this similar situation take place in the past, but in a slightly different format. So you know, basically with Gabby and Jason, they had an overnight where they tried to have a conversation and he told her, I like you, but I just don't think I'll be able to get to an engagement at the end of this. Take it back a few seasons ago to Tasia and Brenton, like he was one of her top three men before they went into overnights. He said, and this is me just paraphrasing something similar of like I like you, but I can't get engaged at the end of this, and that because I think the way the format was where they didn't even go into the overnights and give it a shot, was so blown out of proportion. And I remember doing the podcast with Rachel Lindsay at that point, and she, you know, she was very she had her views of like why would you come on the show. If you're not willing and ready to get engaged, you know what is at the end of this, which I completely understand that, like the Gabby Jason situation, really is no different like he is for now a couple of weeks at least with his family saying I don't see an engagement. I can't get there, and so it'll be interesting, I think, to see how viewers react to that, because I remember when it happened a couple of years ago with Brendan, people tore him apart. I wonder if that's also going to be similar to this situation. But for you personally, if you had one of your top three guys say the same thing to you, like I like okay, maybe not even the same thing, but if you had somebody that you were very into be like I like you, I care about you. I could see a future. I just can't get down on one knee and give you a ring in a week. How do you think you would handle that and react? I think that that would have been a conversation that I would have needed to have with that person at the beginning, just because when you're going through meeting all these people you're talking to, it like you are very flat out setting everything out there that you want, that you know, and you don't get to know somebody to the depths that you would in the real world. But it's still a risk. And so it's sometimes less about the like actual ring and like the engagement and more of like the fact that you're already taking a risk as is, even if you're madly in love with the person, because there's no way you can get to know them, and so are they a person that is going to stick around then? You know? So it's for me, I would have needed to hear that, and I would have needed to have like that conversation at the beginning so that I knew that going into it, because when you lay it on right now, then it just like puts a ton of other questions into it, because yeah, it's not realistic to get engaged after knowing somebody for how many months? Is it possible? Yeah? It is, but you have to have two people who believe in it. And if you don't believe in it, then is it really going to work? Right? Yeah? I mean, I see, I can see all points of view you here, would you if somebody said that? Because at this time, why wouldn't you stay that ahead of time? Yeah, unless maybe he thought he could have gotten there, which you know, it seems like from everything he's already been saying he wasn't going to get there, which is one thing. Yeah, it's like maybe for me, and this is just me, and I know people listening aren't going to believe it because I've been engaged a thousand times before, But like, if it was my season and also depends on the guy, right, like always, but if there was like the person that I knew I wanted to be with at the end of the season, like if they that last day, would have been like, I love you, I want to explore this relationship and continue being together outside of this and like see how we can mesh our lives together and like really put in the work, but I can't get down on one knee. When I was the lead, I would have honestly probably been fine with that. I would have been like, look, if I love you, Tune, we're on the same page, let's do this together. Don't put another ring on it. That's fine if you're not a thousand percent there, But if you're telling me you are willing to put in the work and commit and be loyal and have a respectful relationship. Let's see where that could go. I would too, depend like depending on the person, but it's also depending on how it's related. Because you can feel like you know somebody and if you're talking about engagement, love, being in love or all these different things and these experiences, and then all of a sudden they whip out that they're not ready, it's gonna seem like a blind time. It's gonna seem like you were led on right. So it's like, if it's done in the right way, I think I would completely be like, yeah, like I really wanted with like life with you and explore that with you, you know, and I'm willing to do that in a relationship. But it's more of like, this is the first time I'm hearing this when you've been hearing me talk about an engagement the entire time, and would say like, oh, we are not on the same page, you know. And with this situation, specifically with Jason, he did seem very hesitant im Like I towards end of that conversation, I was like, do you even like this girl? Like, I'm very confused now of where you're at. But he said, I yes, and I was so surprised. I don't know if you or what your thoughts were when he said this, but after they kind of already had the conversation or he's trying to explain to her of what he wanted and that he did care about her, he said like, if we were to take this, I want to take this outside of the show and spend time with you and then if it gets serious, like he used the word if it gets serious, and I was like, oh, like this has been already thought was serious and there's like, wait, what do you mean has been very serious? Yeah. It's another example of like very disconnected communication where she was on one page, he was very much so on another, and they they weren't going to get there, like they know at that point, there was no way they were gonna They could have done a week of overnights alone away from cameras, and I don't think they would have gotten there. Do you feel like they should have completely skipped overnights or you feel like Gabby should have cut him at dinner. I don't think so. I think I think they were both open to explore and having that conversation, So if they and I think they both went in with a short of hoping like we could maybe get there. Let see. So it's like, I think that if they both were on the same page at that point to see where it could go by all means take that time, like um, and I think, if anything, it just helps them both realize this is not going to work out, which in the long run like helps them both realistically. Yeah, but they you want them to have the decision might not feel good, but at least it's clarity. It's yeah, And I know we're going to get a lot of feedback from all of our listeners and viewers about this situation in general, because I remember bringing it back to a couple of seasons ago when this happened Brendan, we had a lot of opinions, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I would love to hear what people have to say if they think they're similar situations, if they think they're vastly different, how would you handle it if you were in Gabby's position. Yeah, so that was well, we have one more fantasy suite or one more overnight that we have to get into, which didn't go as planned. Kind of the theme here of this week but Rachel and Zach, like they have been a standout relationship since the beginning, Like right out the gate, Rachel was super into him vice versa. They bonded so deeply over like their upbringings and their families. So it was crazy to see him leave that fantasy suite and that over night like a complete one eighty. And that was I think the most shocking one I would say for me, because I mean, you know me, every week, I'm like, Zach's gonna be like one of the top two. It's gonna be Zach. Zach's going to the end. And now I'm like, what the hell happened? That's my world upside down? This past episode was Zach. Yeah, and you know, not not necessarily like it's as again, flipping your world upside down doesn't mean that anyone necessarily did anything wrong, but it was just I was incredibly shocked and just even when so to just talk about everything, Zach. They went into their fantasy suite and then you know they came out. Did they say did they say I love you or I'm falling in love with you? I think they've already well, they already exchanged it. A couple of weeks ago, Like I remember she said it in correct me if I'm wrong, but I think she said it in Holland right when they were biking to the Yes, Okay, he already told her, like in Holland that he was falling in love with her when they were biking through the tulips and went in the hot tub, and so it's been a while for him to say it. Yeah. And then so he's sitting down after this fantasy suit with Jesse and as talking about how like he's visibly upset, he's visibly you know, uncomfortable, and it's just talking about how he really expected it to go one way but it went another way and just really was seemed kind of hurt that Rachel questioned if he's ready for an engagement at the end of this, Is that what you got of the big picture of what he was really hurt by or bothered by. Like, I haven't really seen a situation like this since Andy Dorfin on one Pablo season where somebody's really calling the lead out and it seems like he's really calling Rachel out for something that we have no idea what happened because there was no cameras there. So now I'm interested to see like how much was said or like how much was that driven into him of like I don't think you're ready, And also like where's that coming from? You know, it's like he's even though he's twenty five, he's at least to me, has seemed very mature, has been very expressive and open about how he's feeling and what he wants at the end of this he's ever given me like off vibes of like if he's ready to fall in love and get engaged and be a partner for life, like even on his first on his first one on one day with her, they're not even the first one, but like both of the couple one on one day he said he's had with her, he's been very open about his past traumas, like what he went through to get to where he is today, what he's looking for. And so that's where I was confused of like the why behind this conversation. Wow, I'm even more confused now. Okay, Well, and it's like age is something that we've talked about on the show quite a bit. Is like, you know, people can be mature and be younger, and people can be older and be very immature. It's all about like kind of life experience and like how we got to where we are today. And Zach always seemed very mature, even for twenty five. So yeah, and I guess it's like it's not even something we can really dive into that deep and get to the bottom of unless we talked to Rachel, Like there had to have been some reason of like why that topic was brought up to the extent that it was. But what did you think of the fact that when he was so age, was like this driving force. And he also said that when cameras were off, he expected it to be different and it wasn't. And he really kind of pointed to the fact that that she seems different, like he didn't know who she was, Like he was seeing a different Rachel. He was seeing a different Rachel and like just pointing at all of that. What are your thoughts on those comments? I mean that's interest see too, because again, like we've never really seen somebody question the lead in that way. It's always been the reverse, where the lead is like I expected this person to be different or contestant to be different or come out of this feeling different. So that's where I'm again, like I don't think we're going to get to the bottom of it, Like it's very interesting or like what actually was said in that overnight behind closed doors, what it actually took place, but like he's very much upset to the point where like Jesse is working overtime this weekend this week dealing with everything happening, and like the fact that that Zach went to Jesse's room and sought him out directly. Usually it's like Jesse walking and be like hi, guys, like let's catch up. It's all like something we didn't expect. And again, like the season has not been anything like what we've seen before. But I and we have no idea what Zach said when he pulled Rachel away that's coming. But I'm glad that he did find the time to do that, because like, if this is that big of a thing and that big of a deal at this point where it's like you can't accept a rose if you don't if you think you don't know who this woman is, now, like find the time to have that conversation. Yeah, one thing that all popped into my mind right away too, as this was like all unfolding with the conversation between Jesse and Zach was. Everybody presents anxiety in like different ways, and so there is this really big decision coming up, and so I can see Rachel saying like, Larry's sure, you're ready, like with you're twenty five, Like not because that's what she feels, but because like that's what so many other people have projected onto everything that she's like was almost like throwing it out for validation or just confirmation of like this has been something that's been thrown out, thrown out several times, like you're good on that. Like I can see her almost like not no, I don't want to say that projecting your side, but like but just having an anxious, stressful response because this hasn't been a this have not been in an experience where she has been chosen, where she has been felt like an abundance of love from the guys, you know, where the guys have been confident about her. So I can definitely see her getting to this point, you know, just being like are you really here? But me not that that's validated. Right, Well, let me ask you this if she if somebody were to just throw that at you once and be like, well, you know, you're only this age, like are you sure you're ready? Giving you the opportunity to respond? Would you have like that shaken of a response coming out of fantasy suitets like he did, Like he made it seem like it was like driven home and more extreme than just like you know you're younger than me, Like are you sure you feel ready for this? Like are you sure you've been through enough like life experiences or relationships to get to where you need to be? Like for me, just trying to piece it all together and I could be so wrong here again, like I would love to have rachelon or anyone on to top talk about this who was part of it? But like for me, like somebody questioning that is fine, Like it's like answering totally to the best of your ability and move on. But like to the point where he's coming and seeking out Jesse and crying and so upset, being like I don't know who this woman is. I need to have a conversation. I feel like because of all of that and piecing together, it was something more that happened that took place. Yeah, yeah, I don't think it was just would be just one you know, one comment like you said, I think it would just be I can see you know when you are asking questions the fantasy overall overnight's overnights can be really like stressful and just anxious and things like that. But also you had to be able to work past that and have like conversations based on where your relationship is currently at, not you know, necessarily everything that you've already like spoken about. So I just I have no idea. I'm so I'm so intrigued at this point. Yeah, like I will, Yes, I agree, I'm so looking forward to next week to see because again, we haven't seen anything like this up indill this point, So I'm like, I have no idea what the hell is about to happen? Also, like I have no idea if Gabby and Eric are just like done sailing off into the sunset, or like if she's going to keep him around like meet her family and potentially get engaged, Like where are we at here? I honestly, honestly, it's it is kind of fun watching it as a person who's been on both sides because you kind of can think you have things figure it out, and like this time, like Zach, Zach would have been my pick? Yeah, was Zach your pick, or was Tina your pick? I think Zach was both of our picks. Well, I say episodes ago. I'm going to say this right now, and this is no shade to anyone. It's just what I think from what I've witnessed. I have always said I think Zach and Tino are going to the end. I think those are her Rachel's top two, but I think Zack is a better fit. I liked Zach. Yeah, well, are you saying in the past tense? Yeah, he didn't die, said Okay, I like Zach. I'm saying him because he's so upset, Like, how do you come back from that? Yeah? I think imuinely don't feel like maybe I'll just say this in the most polite way possible to me right now, and I would love to be proven differently. And Michelle, I don't want to say anything that like triggers you too. I'm not triggered, don't worry. I'm certain things that I have heard come out of Tino's mouth are red flags to me, and that's what makes me nervous. I know she loves Tino, and I think they have a very strong connection, but I'm also a little hesitant to see what that relationship could be from the things that I have heard, and I will leave it at that. I will say, I will one I'll clarify the word red flags doesn't trigger me. I just try not to say it because then everybody thinks that I'm like directly speaking about a person and I'm yeah, no, I totally get it. So that's why I said, That's why I said, can we just give it a different name? Yet? Whatever? I guess heynge flag. Honestly know, it's the same category, it's the same. It is what it is. It is what it is. But I will say that, um, I don't you know, I do what does it do as I say, not as I do. Let's yeah, I mean I see red flags as well, and it's just one of those things where it's like either going to choose listen to it or you don't. And I'm more comfortable with Zach than I am a Tino, significantly more comfortable with Zach than I am a Tina. Yes at this point, Okay, and again, but does that mean that I won't sit and get to know Tino and give him a you know, a chance of Absolutely, oh, as long as his chance, as long as his family gives Rachel Champs, you know, I'll give him a chance. Well no, And that's the thing, like any of any of these remaining guys that are left on this season, I would love to have on the podcast to pick their brain and like to get to know more because we've gone through filming now we know like sometimes we say the wrong things, we don't execute things as well as we liked. Like you learn as you go through it and as you watch it back, and so I can only I would hope that all of these men are doing the same thing. So I would love to sit down and have them on here and pick their brains and everybody's welcome. Yeah. Yeah, it's just always a snippet. You only see a snippet, and people can completely prove you wrong when you you know, are off off air, off the cameras just reflecting back and all of that, and you can kind of look at that. So I think, if you know, I would love to have him on. Let's go, Let's go, Let's go. Well that is it for two episodes of a Crazy Fantasy Suite week. Um, I cannot wait to see what happens these next two weeks. As we near the finale. You know, we've said since the beginning of the season, Michelle that we really have no idea what happens, and that is proving the case after every damn episode. So truly with that, miss Michelle, give me your rose and Thorn of the Week. I feel like we haven't done this in a while. Wow, we have not done this in a minute. Okay, Rose and Thorn of the week. Do you feel like you have a lot of thorns? I'm really pay this week, Michelle. We are. I mean, I know my rose. Okay, give me then let's how do you start with it? I feel like I'm not trying to be native. I was just thinking there's a lot of like just like thorns that probably opped up there. It was a very prickly week, dramatic. It was a prickly episode. We didn't expect it. You know, you like reach for that flower and you get poked, and that's what that is a new little thing. It's a prickly episode. If you gets an episode with a lot of drama, and I love that. Um, Okay, well do you want to start? You start because I'm like literally sitting here like thinking about okay, like what actually is my rose. Um, Okay, So my thorn, Oh, I think just overall my thorn is like the vagueness of a lot of these conversations and the fact that, like we don't have a lot of context to the why of like why certain things are now happening. And maybe that's just the curiosity kitty in me that like I wish I would know more of like what was said to Zach, why is he feeling this way? Like you know, where was the disconnect between Tino and his family and now bringing Rachel into it, Like, there's just a lot of unknowns. So overall, I'm just going to say that, um, my thorn is such a rain. Sorry. My rose is gonna be such a random onely because like I really can't think of like any like major rose. So it's gonna be Gabby's comment when she was playing tennis with Jason and she goes, I wish she would spank me on the butt with that racket because I would I feel like I was watching that part with Thomas and I'm like, I probably would have thought the same thing. So that's gonna be my rose because that is so funny. Picks for these flowers this week, Okay, Rose and Thorn. I would say my thorn would definitely be the fact that we are now have gotten through fantasy Suits. But I don't think I've ever seen a season where the guys are so uneasy where just uncertain overall, and that's something that I think we've seen a lot this season. And so that would be like fantasy suits, that piece being just uneasiness, which kind of goes with what you said. And then my rose would be on trying to think of like an actually good Rose, but it could be like Pretty Mexico was That's what I was going to say. Honestly, just my rose would have to be being able to watch um, both just Gabby and Rachel at this point still travel and like have these fun day day experiences, whether their cliff jumping, whether they're siming, whether they're playing tennis, whatever. It is just the fact that they're they they do look more relaxed. They it's a hard situation, but they look like they're a little bit more relaxed with like having fun and just being able to also enjoy these guys companies company during the non intimate time. I say, you know why they are relaxed. The sweet no the day they comes first, it's all the tequila. And to all of our listeners again, like I would love, we will hope, we would love to hear what you have to say about this week and about certain relationships and situations that happened, because like I love hearing people's opinions and trying to get a different mindset of like what I you know, usually go to So yeah, DMUs I mean right on our Instagram in the comment section, whatever you need to do. Um and then I definitely put up but we should throw up a question or something out there, just because it's always so interesting learning about everybody's interpretations of like what they see, things that they pick out that we don't pick out, how they take things. Sometimes we have too much background knowledge that throws us off or whatever it is. And so yeah, I'm I'm excited, and they're we've got two weeks left, two weeks we're in our own stretch to find out what happens. So Michelle, thank you for dissecting a lot of fantasy suites this week. It's always fun to chat with you, and and even bigger thank you to our Bachelor Happy Hour listeners for being here once again with us don't forget everyone that you can catch all new episodes of The bouchel Atte every week on ABC or on Hulu. Make sure to hit us up on socio. You can follow us at Bachelor Happy Hour on Instagram and from there you'll find everything you need to know to follow us on Twitter and TikTok and Boucher Happy Hour is available on Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen, and you can listen add free by subscribing to Wonderree Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondering App. All right, Batch, You're happy our listeners until next week. Cheers, cheers