Lakers Trainer Gary Vitti: Magic’s HIV Reveal, Kobe’s Achilles & Shaq’s Wildest Pranks

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Welcome back to unplugged. I've been very fortunate to grow up a showtime Laker fan and fast forward and get a chance to meet a lot of my heroes, but also able to sit down with a handful of that team, from Magic to Be, Scott to Worthy, a little bit ahead of that, Kobe Shack, Jeanie bus herself. But this guy, this guy has been behind the scenes for all of it and just one of the best humans I've ever had a chance to meet and be around. And I'm really excited today to welcome the head former head trainer of the last Angeles Lakers for thirty two years. You got eight rings? Gee, yeah, god damn. Welcome to show, Gary Vetty.

00:00:54
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

00:00:56
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, yeah, long time coming. You just gave us a wild sim card story. I'm glad that is. I'm glad that's behind you. But how's life your grandpa? Now, I saw you send me a pitchy rescued a dog that needed some love, And how's life for a retired vet?

00:01:13
Speaker 2: You know? Never better? Actually, I mean unfortunately the world's not there. Yeah, I'd be lying to you if I told you that didn't bother me. But my life is good, especially because for the most part, we have the health of all of our loved ones. And the bottom line is as if you have that. Yeah, you know, being in healthcare my whole life and seeing people lose their health and all the stuff that they thought was important they realized wasn't. And so fortunately I've learned through watching them that right now I have it all.

00:01:49
Speaker 1: Glad to hear that wife as well. Yeah, Martha's good. I DMG, she responded. I was like, Martha, how you been. She's like, here's here's his number. Everything good?

00:01:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what she does all the and she handles and stuff, So you need to keep me in the loop. Yeah, because she's mad at me and making me look bad because I have no idea what she's putting up.

00:02:13
Speaker 1: That's funny. Eighty one Utah Jazz. What was your first experience like with them?

00:02:26
Speaker 2: I guess that says it yourself. Ye know. Frank Laydon was there a great guy. I came in. Tom Sulke was the coach, Jeene Little's assistant, But the guy that I really connected with was Bill Burkdaky. He was on that that bench and uh, that's how I ended up with, you know, with the Lakers because when they when they fired Paul west Head and then they hired Pat to become the head coach. He was looking for an assistant and he called Bill until Bill left the Jazz, but him and I had already developed the relationship. And then a few years later, when they were looking for somebody.

00:03:09
Speaker 1: I came and got you out of Utah, Bill, No, I was.

00:03:11
Speaker 2: At Portland by oh, okay, So I left Utah came the head guy up at Portland. You got to kind of understand that in those days and in your time, we didn't have practice sites yet, okay, So you know the Lakers would practice at Inglewood High poly Pavilion, while all the Marymount we were vagabonds when I came in the league. Well so was everybody else in the league, right. And the Portland Trailblazers practiced at University of Portland and they had a good good gym was like built in the thirties, but the gym floor was on the second floor spring they were a lot of the places where would un cement and so the ad was looking for a new athletic trainer. So they talked to Ron Kolp, who was the head guy up there and he said, well, you got to talk to this guy that was working on his pH d at Utah but now he's in Portland, Okay. Talked to him and so Jerry West called me and next thing, you know, yeah, but it was it was an experience. Can I put this good people, bad team made me basically not want to be in the NBA interesting and I was when I was working with the Jazz, I was actually a football training Division one college football trainer. My first basketball experience was the NBA with the Jazz, and Utah was good in basketball. We had Brains and Chambers and pace Manium and those guys. But I didn't work basketball as a one man now right. I was a football guy. But the Jazz wanted a part time assistant, so they got me. And it wasn't something I was interested in. I want to finish my PhD and you know, be a college professor. You know, I saw myself more in a classroom and in the training room than on an airplane, you know, with an eighty two, you know, game schedule plus pre season and postseason. But then when I and I had when the Lakers call me, they just lost a Boston for the eighth time. It's the Lakers. It's not the Jat you know what I mean. It's different, different animals a little bit. And so I said, well I should at least stop to them, you know what I mean. Still not sold believe it or not. I mean, I know it probably sounds like BS people, but well, they sent me a first class plane ticket. I had never been the first class before I landed, Lax. Jerry West picks me up at the airport in a Navy Bloomers with ten interior. Okay, I'd never been in the Mercedes before, let alone Jerry West's driving it, you know. And then they bring me to the Fabulous Forum that is what it.

00:06:12
Speaker 1: Was called in those days.

00:06:15
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty four, and the building is electric because USA basketball was playing Spain for the gold medal in the eighty four Olympics.

00:06:25
Speaker 1: Oh interesting today that.

00:06:26
Speaker 2: I'm in there interviewing with Jerry West, di pat Riley, first class ticket Mercedes with Jerry West driving at gold.

00:06:34
Speaker 1: Medal carpet out for you.

00:06:36
Speaker 2: So I'm like on the magic carpet right of hoops, and I all of a sudden I was really interested in Pat and I had a really great conversation about a lot of things. He was very very progressive, very progressive considering what things were like back in eighty four, and I really started wanting the job. But I did say to him, I'm not sure that this is right for me. You know, I really want to be in a performance laboratory, in the training room and a classroom. And and he said to me, I counted these words up later you could do exactly what you want to do, which now you can do it with the greatest athletes in the world. That's a good That was a good line. Yeah, And and so I kind of left there now kind of I left there like this, this could be really good. But all of a sudden they go, well, you can just walk Remember the CD Hotel. We were around long enough to see there was a CD hotel across the street called the Airport Park Hotel. It was a dump, right, He said, well, you just walk cross the street and there's a shuttle take you back to the airport. Hey, where's the Navy bloom Mercedes with ten and Terror and Jerry West driving it. So I kind of assumed that they I guess they didn't want me. I didn't know. But then a couple of days later they called me, and thirty two years later I was bench.

00:08:13
Speaker 1: So you came to LA in eighty four with a head full of hair, yeah, and you left in sixteen with none none. Let's talk about that ride.

00:08:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well it's an awesome, awesome ride. And the last twenty years with Kobe, And that was our line that that I told him. I said, I watched you grow He was seventeen, baby. Tell people. If I wanted to give him Madville, I had to call his mother. He was a miner, right, I said, I watched you grow up, and you watched me grow. Yeah. And then we retired together. And the other guy that retired with us was Byron Scott, but it was you gotta understand that I came in went straight to the top. You know, we beat Boston in eighty five. All the skeletons came out of the closet for the Lakers, finally beat the Celtics on their floor. They never lost a playoff series on the parqu floor, let alone the finals. And then you know, Magic converted Serah positive for HIV in ninety one, which was horrible. We had just played the Bulls in ninety one in the finals and lost, but it's not like we were out of it, you know. But then once we lost him, we went straight to the bottom. And we can talk about that because for the most part, to get back to the top, you got to go to the bottom. And we can talk about that. The guy that has been able to do it without ever really being how else to say it's shitty, Okay, Isrielly in Miami. They've never really been shitty, you know. Somehow They've always been kind of one or two players away from you know, some of that as being in Miami, players want to play there. But he's developed the culture there that you have to give him tremendous credit. But then we come back with Shaq and Kobe. But people have to realize we got them in ninety six. We didn't win anything till two thousand. We're probably more talented teams until Phil got there. Okay, And we can discuss what I think happened there, and then you know, Shack leaves and we go right back to the bottom again, and then Powell comes and we go back up to the top again. So I come to the top, go to the bottom, go back to the top with Shack, go back to the bottom. Powell comes in, we go back to the top again, and then I retire in twenty sixteen, and we sucked and we were back at the bottomy. Okay, but I think you have to get for the most part, in sports in general, if you get stuck in the middle, you will always be mediocre. It's the worst place to be in professional sports. You're better off being at the bottom because then you have a chance to get to the top. And if you're at the top, you have great players that you can trade. You have great players that other good players or great players would want to play with, so you can attract free agents. If you're at the bottom, you're going to get draft choices, which are assets, so you can trade the picks. Okay, you can draft them and then trade them. You can draft them, develop them, keep them, develop them, and trade them. You have options. But if you're in the middle, you're not good enough to really attract free agents, you're not bad enough to draft, so you're stuck there and it's really hard to get in. And like I said, the one exception that I see, and it's not surprising if you know the man, I not only know him, I love him, is pat Riley, and he's developed a culture that everybody can play for Pat. Okay, but you could actually I believe so because I know you and you're your mental and physical toughness, you know, but if you don't have that, and part of that mentality is being able to sacrifice a piece of yourself the good as the whole, okay, which are really hard for a lot of EMPs to do because from the time there's seven, well, they're also the best kid on the team, the best kid in the league, the best kid in the high school, probably the best kid in the conference that the high school's in. Now they go to college, or the best kid on that team, and they're probably the best kid in the conference that that that college team is playing in. And now you get to the NBA. Guess what, everybody, all those guys were the best, you know, and now you're you know, when I broke in, there was twenty three teams with twelve guys on a team. Whatever the math is around two seventy five something like that. Not quite Now you've got fifteen players on a team and you have thirty teams. It's four hundred and fifty players. But still that's a lot more. But still you're if you're the best guy in the next league down, let's say the G League. You know, you're a European player, you're probably not good enough to play in the league, or for whatever reason, you're not playing in the league. Okay, so that's how competitive is. Four and fifty sounds like a lot, but it's not where you think about you know, the billions of people that are in the.

00:14:04
Speaker 1: World and millions and if you think there's only been what less than five thousand to ever play in the NBA up to this point, Yeah, which is crazy. I want to backped a little bit with that Showtime team, your arrival, your first year, you guys get a championship, a lot of different personalities. Obviously we hear stories about Kareem and Magic not necessarily hitting it off off the rip. Pat Riley is a very strong personality, innovative, looking towards the future. What are those locker rooms like, what's that team like? Because we got to see Showtime and it was a fucking show. But you know, you see something like winning Time and you were someone who was there and had to walk off the set for your reasons. And we'll get into that, like what was it like behind the curtain because we didn't live in a social media era where there's no real you can't hide nothing no more. But back then everything was kind of behind the curtain. You had to be there to understand. Luckily arrive with that team.

00:14:56
Speaker 2: I wonder where. Yeah, like we talk about it all the time, like can you imagine if they can Okay, let's be honest here though, So winning time starts in seventy nine, seventy nine eighty. I was with the Jazz, Okay, so I wasn't there. I didn't come till eighty four. So that team, the seventy nine eighty team is you know, Magic's a rookie. Norm is on that team, okay, and they beat Philly to win. So I really can't comment on what happened there. Now starting the eighty three eighty four season, they trade Norm to get Byron Scotty, and I can kind of tell you what I've heard they You know, Norm was like sort of a comic, okay, when he's with the Lakers. Rightfully, so it's a great player, very competitive. But from my perspective, once again, six' nine point. Guard you, Know Magic johnson is going to be at his best with the ball in his. Hands. Okay now in those, days you had small point, guards you, know Like, norm and he's got the ball in his hands and there's only one. Ball so you, Know Jerry west came to that conclusion that you, know WHAT i need is more than a point guard that can shoot it a little bit Like. NORM i need a pure, shooter which is going to Be Byron, scott and a guy that's coachable that will play defense because And i'm saying this BECAUSE i don't Think Byron scott has gotten credit for. This and we're talking About Michael cooper too in the same sentence sort. Of so you got a six' nine point guard trying To Guard. Isaiah thomas that's not going. To right but also a six to four guard that's a, two guard what we considered a big guard in. Those days that's really not the right guy to Put on, Isaiah either but you don't have, anybody else so you got to, do. That Okay and byron's never really gotten the CREDIT because i think he was looked at mostly as an offensive player and that he was not the first or second option in. The offense but because the way the game was played low, post offense throw the Ball into kareem and out get. A double they got to, leave Somebody and byron's going to be. Out there he's, a shooter and so, you know you could say that he lived off of, these guys but the fact is was that he put the ball on you KNOW what. I mean you got an credit, for that but he doesn't get credit for us having to play defense on these other guys out. Of position the other guy that having this great point guard, six' nine that also created problems offensively when he came out, of the game because now you got an offense that's predicated on the six'. To nine point guard So Now, you bring michael cooper who only gets, credit for playing defense but now. He's, playing the point okay doesn't get, any credit. For it, does he you know, he's not. Six', nine he's tall, you know he had length so he. Did A pretty good job but i don't think he's. Ever gotten credit For that and so normally byron comes in. And, they Beat him up okay the lakers. Themselves, Beat UP this kid okay and i get there the next year And they had lost, to boston and the, finals and, so You know you know The, lakers became instead of, magic they called them Tragic, and instead of the Lakers. They call THEM the fakers and so I come in there and byron is, just now after. One season but they lost hasn't been completely, accepted, by those other guys okay, but HE did that year and i was kind, of, in THE same boat okay because i was the rookie athletic trainer, and, they're going to see well? What's he, Got to OFFER you know byron and i became really close because nobody, else would.

00:19:30
Speaker 1: Talk, To us You know interesting but.

00:19:33
Speaker 2: Eventually byron, became one, of the guys you. Know and they adopted him and then And Once again This Is, pat Riley and jerry west but pat creating this sense of. Family, where EVERYONE was included, now when i say Everyone he had a saying pat, twelve plus, two plus, one twelve players two. Coaches. And the athletic trainer me there was actually three coaches that Eighty Forty, five season was, dave wall but. The third the second assistant the third coach was. Pretty much an advanced scout he was always on the road. Coming back with scouting reports, there's, NOTHING like that too right i don't know how many coaches They are like this eight it was. Twelve plus two plus one It was fifteen guys that. Pat called the inner sanctum it's the five guys on the floor and. The ten on the bench we are the ones that are have. An effect on the game even meet to some, remote ins then not scoring to. Point, a REBOUNDER and assists okay but i had my. Duties during the actual game he even came up with another saying. He called a peripheral opponent if you weren't, one of those fifteen people you were a peripheral. Opponent, that included your. Family yeah HOW about THAT but if i if i say, it to you this way you show up at the arena and you go get a ticket envelope to put, your wife's name on it to put the tickets in there to send. Them up to will call you.

00:21:24
Speaker 1: Were, Distracted, from the game interesting okay.

00:21:29
Speaker 2: She became a peripheral opponent she. Distracted, YOU from the. Gate yeah i get it, It's kind of out there but when you. Really, think about it's true okay you were. Not totally one hundred percent you might have. Been Ninety nine point nine, but pat wanted a hundred and you understood how he could demand that. Because he, was a hundred you know he was kind, of guy that.

00:22:01
Speaker 1: For me.

00:22:04
Speaker 2: If patsaid were going to go up to the top of the, FORM and jump off today i. Would have. Gone with, him you know obviously. Exaggeration YOU get the POINT so I think that i think i've. Described what It was like and, then i'll also say this the goal was. Not to win a championship The goal was to beat. Boston to win the. Championship it was that focus we knew they. Were going to be there, we needed to. Get there and we Did and we go into game one of the eighty five finals and we get beat By Thirty four points on memorial day Known To This. Day as memorial Day massacre and that's when kareem. Look like an old man He did NOT play well perish and i mean they, Had A Big front line gay michale parish, and they were really, good really. Good, and tough mean too okay we go in The locker Room. And Here's kareem abdul jabbard that i've made an argument is that not only the greatest basketball player, that's ever played the game he may be he may be the most the greatest athlete that's ever walked if you if you really look, his entire body Of work Like from high. School, power memorial on up okay and we, could talk about, The, record the scoring record okay if you really, look at the whole THING not Even, my, and i love michael okay. And And respect them tremendously Even michael hasn't Done with kareem is and Michael, did it, all and lebron you, know it's broke this record. Which WE should Talk. About and i admire lebron but we, get beat by thirty four and we go In the locker room and kareem looks, at everybody and takes blame and then he guaranteed that we were. Going to win the championship and it taught me something, THAT the real true test i get a little choked, Up about stuff like this the real true test of one's character is, when things are going bad not. When, everything's going your way, right, AND things, were bad okay i Mean you get beat by boston in, The Finals by four points and kareem taught me, that when things, Go bad you know what, You go in the bathroom you look in the mirror and you take responsibility. For your part of it and then part of that process is you kind of. Beat yourself up over it but as soon as, you get, through, that part the better okay because. It's part of the process but it's not very constructive because you got to, get to the next thing which, is the most important. Thing learn from the, Mistake, KOBE was like this okay i tell everybody it wasn't. Only competitive if he lost to use the. Loss to come back better and you don't, make the. Same MISTAKE again you know and i write IT in the book IF i can. Remember how i said this but there's the fool who. Never learns from their mistakes they make the same. Mistakes over and over again and then there's a smart person that learned from the mistake and never. Makes the stay mistake twice and then THERE'S the wise person that i only, learns from their own mistakes but learns. From the mistakes, of others always be, smart try to be. Wise NEVER be the fool and i don't, know If, you know This but kareem we, beat Boston in six GAMES and kareem was the mvp of the playoffs after being the worst player on, the floor in game.

00:26:29
Speaker 1: One the winning time situation. We spoke about that briefly what was your you were? What what was your title initially with that and then you ended up leaving. Just, because you couldn't morally yeah so a.

00:26:43
Speaker 2: Little Bit Of, the BACKSTORY so, rick fox who i, love is a great guy and no Blame there. As Far as i'm concerned but rick, Calls, me UP AND says hey THE hbo i think was hbo people. Want want to to you they're. Doing A documentary on showtime, and i, told them that you know, they should talk, to you and he goes you might be able to get like a consulting gig. Or something. Out, Of it, you interested. Yeah I'M interested you know and i was writing. The BOOK at the time so i Went Down, was SOMEWHERE in santa monica and i spent several hours with him and pretty, much, kind of told them listen. You can Talk to me you just i'm. Almost done with the book, you just read the BOOK it's, all and. What i know you know and so we get to the time when they're ready to air, this thing, or shoot it, not arab but shoot it and they, call, me and they say listen we're starting in seventy nine and you're. Not with the team Yet you, didn't come to lady four but, we want you in it and So you're going to be and you, probably KNOW what this is but. I never heard this Before you know what an easter? Egg, Is in that business okay So you know. What an, easter egg is you know Kids go search for the easter egg, IN the in that business i apparently you take somebody like me who's, kind of, sort of recognizable not famous BUT some, people know who i am and you stick them, in the crowd and like if you really know, you're watching and you Go so, you're, you're an easter egg right and so We're gonna. Make you an easter egg and they had explained, to me what that was and and so the way they did that was they, made ME a scout okay and i. Had the polyester clothes on they. Put a, WIG on me you know, i, Look like an asshole right, And and so you know i'm in the, war room and you Know there's several scenes that i'm in, and, they use different. Directors okay for different EPISODES my director was these i just had it. And now he lost it. It'll come Back to me john C. RILEY is is doctor. Buss i gotta tell you he looked. Exactly like doctor busob, exactly he walked like, him he talked like. HIM he SMOKED like him i thought I. WAS talking, to doctor buss i. Mean He was Absolutely Amazing. JASON clark, was jerry west i, mean these guys were great. AND everybody was just magnificent i mean from the time, you got on, the lot, hair and makeup the security everybody just, extremely professional and, kind nice, really nice people you know and, they all read. The book every single person YOU would have thought that i was KIND of the celeb because i was the one there that was actually. There there with the team and so they Start shooting this thing and jerry's yelling and, screaming And cursing, at people and I'm Like THAT'S not. The jerry west i, know and to be honest it was The. Same, thing with doctor bus okay he was he, he never, cursed people out you know And He jumps. UP on, mary lulibig's, desk i mean first off there wasn't there Was a scene where doctor buss is walking in, he starts screaming at everybody everybody out of your office. IS out of your offices i. Want to talk, to everybody first of all that space, didn't, exist at the? Forum okay didn't you know so. This scene never actually happened And He jumps. Up on mary lulibis desk the man would. Have, needed a step letter okay get. Up, up on the desk so. AND he's yelling at everybody i bought this team. To win a fucking championship you don't want to win and get, the fuck, OUT never, ever okay, ever i mean you know the epitome of walk softly and carry a. Big. Stick kind Of guy okay and, and jerry would would. Curse but not at, people he. Wasn't like THAT you know and so i go HOME the First Day, And, i, call, rick, foxy hey listen. Man okay everybody was magnificent they. WERE very, Nice To, me i mean john cy these guys, ARE really. Nice to me i. Said and they're fantastic actors they. Look like the you, know but it's. All wrong none of, this it's. Not a, character, the, Mischaracter he goes okay. Listen i'll talk to. Him he, calls, ME back he goes. Listen i talked to him they want you to know that. They understand what you're saying they want you to know that. This is not a documentary it's a docuar series and there's going. To.

00:31:50
Speaker 1: Be LIKE this dramatization okay, So, I.

00:31:53
Speaker 2: Say to him OKAY i, get all that i, Said But, you, know WHAT i'm Italian Oay and i watched the godfather today and some of those characters were like loosely based on like. Real MOB guys, and stuff, And I said you know johnny Fontaine, was supposed to be sinatra But they didn't call. Him sinatra in The Show. THEY called, them johnny fontaine i Mean You're. Actually calling him, jerry west. That's a difference you know and, if you don't know him. You think this, is true AND he says there's nothing. I CAN do, about. It SO i said okay, so, i SIGNED a contract okay and, i had, A sad card you know so they're PAYING me to scale and. I got to go back i signed the contract and the contract was. Minimum two days of shooting third. Day WAS optional their option so i go back and there's more of the, same thing The second, DAY and now i'm LIKE i go home and i don't know if they're going to exercise the. Option For the third day and i'm REALLY nervous about it because i don't want to be a part of it because of My Love. THAN respect for Jerry west i don't Want jerry to think that, i'm a. Part of this you know and so they, call, me and they say listen we want to exercise the. Option for the, third day we want you and we want. To ADD two, more days and i said and she was very. VERY nice to casting director. I don't, recall, Her name i said listen i'm definitely not going, To do two more okay and, TO be honest with you i don't Want to do the. THIRD obviously i'll do, it I signed a contract. But i don't want to i'm. Really really, uncomfortable, Doing this she goes okay i'll. Get right back to you and. They were very very nice this was not an acrimonious. Thing between me and. Them they were very understanding and so she, CALLS me back, and says i get, it don't worry about it don't. Worry about the third, day you're off the hook and don't. Worry about four and, five And that was it and it wasn't until a little bit later where it kind OF got out that, that i didn't, go back and you know there WAS a, few, interviews and, i said yeah. You know, that wasn't him you, know they, mischaracterized the, man and they you know they kind of, stuck to, their Guns though, You know because jerry. Said i'm gonna sue you i'm Gonna Take. It, To, the supreme court, remember, okay it was like, yeah you Can't sue you. Hbo man bury you, paperwork I'M not a lawyer. But i get it right and and so eventually that, just kind of, Faded away and you know jerry, passes away some years later, and then after He Did they they interviewed jeff pearlman, and And then he, said, after jerry passed that. Yeah those things never happened. We, MADE it all up okay i, Guess better late, THAN never but you.

00:35:04
Speaker 1: KNOW i, get your point i mean to know these people in to see the way they're portrayed, is is a big deal especially the kind of.

00:35:11
Speaker 2: RELATIONSHIPS you, had with them i mean they made, them, look like. An. Alcoholic, violent lunatic man yeah yeah throwing a trophy through the. Through the first of. All there were. No windows it didn't, exist. There was No trophy okay and, and i'll tell you what going, back to the showtime thing and like kind, of like the Tenor so we win The west to go, play boston in the finals and there's like a little ceremony at half court and. They give you a trophy, it's like. A silver Ball you know and. And kareem accepts the trophy we were all going in the locker room and there wasn't kind of a there. Wasn't. Much of a celebration okay raine. Walks, in with the trophy hey and you, know, everybody's waiting for him okay because and he walks over to the laundry hamper and he throws it in like, it's a. Piece. Of GARBAGE you, know yah, and i learned, you know, thinking, about it like wow man he just threw a trophy and. We went. In THE trash you. KNOW but i, get it, i got it you know like not having ever, been AROUND the championship intality and i figured it out that that sports, is actually designed for failure it's. Not designed for his success only one one. Team wins the last game everybody else goes and no matter how hard you want to try to change that and give young kids a trophy. For showing, up and breathing you know, it's when you you know when you, start going, down that road you, know and, there's a legacy.

00:37:10
Speaker 3: DIFFERENT story you gotta win i do want to say something because We touched on it, about KAREEM and my opinion and i write about it in the book chapter about him being the.

00:37:23
Speaker 1: Goat not just in basket youah tell me, about that because he entied he made he definitely doesn't get The, JUST dude, now particularly.

00:37:31
Speaker 2: Okay, i mean let's face it these guys this case Never they. Never, even saw Magic play. Okay they saw michael play then you know. Some of them made me not even when, You, start thinking about it kobe it's been, ten, years since he's retired right it was. Thirty seven when he retired kareem scoring? Champ for How many years and. Then lebron, breaks the record, so boom my phone star. It's bringing off the? Hook what do. You THINK blah blah blah and i want to start out By. Saying tremendous respect, for lebron let's. Face it he's, a beast so number one you have to give him credit for playing long, enough to break the rest which is really really difficult to, do in and of itself just having a career that. Long and he's still playing but here comes the butt and not. Taking anything away from him i'm not. Taking anything away From. Him i'm giving to. Kareem, it's a big, difference kareem to my knowledge made one. Three pointer his entire career so. You, Start doing the math okay so, for, every every Two threes, Okay that that lebron scored kareem had it scored three times in, the paint, with some monsters extremely fit. Physical, GAME at that time, okay, I. Was right one right okay.

00:39:08
Speaker 1: But here's.

00:39:09
Speaker 2: Probably the most important thing kareem played four years of college basketball at, the, beginning of his career okay and not when he was forty years. Old where people saw him so you'd have to add four, years of a high level high. Level scoring at at well he was like he could run, the floor like a deer And He Was. PLAYING against wilt bill, RUSSELL i, mean these, Guys I, Mean, you Know Bob, lanier West. BIG strong, artist gil more i mean these, guys were, in a joke you know so like, you start doing the, Math, four years of scoring okay you. Got to, add that on you know, maybe he still break it but it would probably. Take, it another, FOUR years.

00:40:03
Speaker 1: Yeah and Similar i Mean similar to cobe where cope didn't get for. His first couple of years he was kind of Handcuffed To. The bench with del harris and you. Could take that in consideration, once he hits the scene what kind. Of scoring ability he had but for those two two and a half. Seasons he, kind of, had he was you know he.

00:40:18
Speaker 2: WAS in A straight jacket i will i can make the, argument that when he retired we're not, Talking, about a. BIG man okay frontcourt player i can make an argument that he was the best player in.

00:40:32
Speaker 1: The league with his back to. The, basket as. A guard yes that's tough i got a chance to, Sit Down, with My brother. Gary vetti longtime laker trainer the interview was so good that we had to chop it up and. Make it into two parts hope. You Enjoy, The, Second side, welcome Back. UNPLUGGED part two geek man i appreciate you coming back and finishing. Up, where we left off obviously we. Talked about your early time we talked about probably the most comprehensive breakdown of What's going on with the. Achilles basketball fans Out There, we talked about jerry west we Talked, about the early showtime lakers and before we leave that Era and Jump into. The shaq, and kobe era, november seventh nineteen. NINETY one my world changed i think a. LOT of people's world changes i remember being eleven YEARS old and crying when i heard that my, Favorite Player, in the world. MATTHEW johnson had to RETIRE i. DIDN'T know what hiv was i was just sad that. My favorite player was leaving what was the energy and the amount of shock, like When you first heard because i'm, sure you probably heard early and then when it once.

00:41:43
Speaker 2: It, went to the. PUBLIC boy we haven't talked i haven't talked, about This in a while and i'm. A LITTLE bit, better now but, i mean let's face, it, he's, gonna Live.

00:41:56
Speaker 1: Us all okay but superman but we we we thought.

00:42:02
Speaker 2: It was a death sentence. We didn't know any better to give you A little backstory about when i learned. Of what was going on So We played In the madonald, cup in paris that year and and So we come back from paris and we have two. Games left in the preseason Now we had played the bulls, in the finals and, lost and in those days, when you. Lost a game it hurt when, you lost a, playoff game it hurt more and if, you lost in the, finals, it was like, Tragedy okay which is yeah i've learned a lot because there are people that really have tragedies and that's really not tragic in, the, Scope of the universe, right but at that time. That was the mentality tragedy so we're coming Off, of tragedy with the bulls which means we have to. Win it in ninety two so we're coming into, training, camp with that mindset Okay and we know the bulls, are going to be there and so the attitude is not, just to win a Championship but to beat the bulls to win a championship because you. Have to avenge the loss that's the kind of mindset there was in. The game in those days and so we come back and we have two, more preseason Games To play one In salt lake against The jazz AND one in vancouver Against. I believe it was seattle and So. This is before the grizzlies they were trying to put a Team in there game and. Seattle. Was The closest city right so magic calls me like a day or two, before we're ready to leave because that's what that's, two Games In, One, Trip first assault lake, right so, he, calls, me He says listen man, and I'm still jet lagged, and I'M kind of tired and i really don't want. To GO on, this trip, so i think you know if you guys Want, me ready for opening. Day LET me, stay, home so i SAID okay let's. SEE what I Could do i Called jerry, west And plead, magic's, case and jerry says listen he Doesn't, have to go to utah but He's got to go to vancouver because that. Game hasn't been sold out, and you got, to understand in, those days there were promoters so we. Didn't promote our own games you cut a deal with a promoter and you. Had to work with him you don't want, the guy, to lose money you know because you needed him the next. SEASON to promote your game. I never knew that interesting so, the game wasn't sold Out and if they hear magic's not going to play they're. Not going to, Sell out so you know, jerry's infinite, wisdom was, like you know tell him will. Fly HIM up game day so i, call, HIM back and said listen i got you, out of the first game but you got, to go to second game so We'll fly you up to vancouver on. The morning, of, the GAME he goes well if i got, TO go to playing one i mind. As a play, in, BOTH that's, on you brother i MEAN you. Know the best i could. So he comes with us, we get on The, plane we fly to utah and, this, Is before cell phones right so we get off the plane and some we're GETTING on the bus and i have these messages.

00:45:25
Speaker 1: To.

00:45:26
Speaker 2: Call the office right away so crazy thing in those days is like the athletic trainer used to carry around like a ROLL of quarters to MAKE i can't even find i can't even, find a. Pay PHONE today you know so i Call the, OFFICE and and jerry says i need you. To SEND magic, Home immediately and i? Go what's, WHAT'S going on he goes i, can't tell you about that but you know, you'll FIND out soon enough and i just need.

00:45:55
Speaker 1: You.

00:45:56
Speaker 2: To send them home okay. IT was kind of cryptic i mean a kind. Of It was extremely cryptic, and jerry WAS you know him and i. HAD a really, good relationships i was like the firstest thing for my mind was you. Know WHAT ended up happening, so i get you know we GO to the HOTEL and I talked, to, IRV and i go listen i got to put. You back, on a plane? HE goes, WHAT'S going on. I said i don't. Know i, THOUGHT you knew he. GOES i don't know EITHER i got a message. I need to go home. So we, send him home he goes literally, goes back to the. Airport catches a flight back he. DOESN'T know what's going on i. Don't know What's going on and so I'm racking my brain, And i'm saying to myself magic's gone through, all the physical exam stuff and we, got all the results back all the. Blood work has been back. We played, six preseason games you, know if he had something, it would. Have SHOWN up you know so i have. No clue what's going on and then we go and play the game. And it's really Bugging Me and you remember tony, smith, Kid, went the broquette right yeah so he's one, of these in, those days as you know it was really. Hard to find pure points so we were infamous for like drafting two guards and then trying to make, him at. The point guards you Know and so we get tony and he is working his tail off trying. To. Be a point guard okay and he comes in his great shape, and he's working really hard and he blows his ankle out in this preseason game and it's a bad. It's a bad ankle sprain he's gonna, be. Out for a while okay and so we're on the bench, AND right before this happens i get this like EPIPHANY of. He MUST be hiv positive and i figure this. Out, because one the lifestyle two when you sign a guy to, a huge contract like that you take a life. INSURANCE policy out on him i. Suppose, something happens to him okay he suppose he Gets, hit by a bus, hey, that covers the policy. Right that covers the contract. The policy covers the CONTRACT. We don't test for hiv if, you ask for. That test we'll do it but we couldn't do it, even if we wanted to because it would be a. Violation of your civil liberties but, the insurance company requires it and so it HIT me. He must be Hiv positive AND so now tony's in i. Get choked up with this. Tony's in the training room he's laying, on, the plinth treatment table, right and he's extremely upset, and he, basically starts crying like sobbing but you could tell. He's KIND of tearing up and i look at him and IT occurs to me, AND i, said to him i go are you? Crying because you're in pain you're crying because you know you're gonna be out for a while. And you work so, hard he went. Like That like that's it and I'M saying to myself, And i said to. Him you're gonna get, better. You're gonna get better okay but there's people in the, world that are not, Okay because in my Mind I've already told myself, Magic JOHNSON'S gonna die okay and.

00:49:32
Speaker 1: I was.

00:49:33
Speaker 2: Very, close to the. Man okay play The, game we fly to vancouver and did? You ever go up there so we used to stay At This place called the pan. Pacific and it was beautiful it overlooked the sound and this park and sea planes, with land and you. Know it, was all glass you know you enjoyed really be in there and just. Looking out at the window it's a, Beautiful, part, Of the WORLD vancouver right. AND so i get this i get A, phone call from doctor melman who was our, team DOC at the time and i, answered The. PHONE and, goes GARYOT'S mickey. I go HE'S hiv positive and because i, remember this, conversation, LIKE this he goes yeah i. KNEW you'd, figure, it out i said well, he wanted you to know. But you CAN'T tell anybody.

00:50:29
Speaker 1: And so.

00:50:31
Speaker 2: I believe there was. Like seven people that knew and so those people Would would Be doctor Bust, our Owner, Jerry West our, Gm Okay, Lon Rosan, knew magic New cookie. New, and doctor. Melman knew okay that's six. Somebody Else In, there new but mike dunleavy to, my knowledge to. This day did not know he was our. HEAD coach, At, the, time i said cookie right. But there was somebody else And SO now We, HAD so, i, asked mickey, i go well for starters what's the? Possibility of a false, Positive he, said very little he. Goes but obviously we're retesting so number one we had to wait for the, retests and then number two you got to figure out what are you going? To do with this information because you, could keep, IT to. Yourself you, know hipo violations you know nobody that knew you'd be, liable, if you repeated it right, Not that you would anyway and it took about a week to figure it out and not to bring up sort of. All this dirty laundry again but there was just so many people out there that he could, have passed it to possibly but didn't know how to. Get a hold of him like he had a different black book with, all, These numbers in it right and so the only, way, to warn these people hey you Need If, you were with magic john, you need to get tested, was, to? Make it public okay okay and then how are you? Going? To play with it okay. Because there, was no rules you know.

00:52:30
Speaker 1: We.

00:52:30
Speaker 2: Knew very little about it some, people Knew, a lot more doctor, huttar YOU know knew more, but i. Mean we didn't you know so about a week or. Two we go through this it's a Couple of weeks and then magic finally makes a decision that, he's going To go public And so lawn calls, meln rosen and he says here's. What, we're going to DO okay you guys are I. Think it was A thursday It. Was a, thursday or friday he goes, you guys are flying out going on a road trip to open the. Season up on the road and when, you get, to the, airport it, Was you know charter. Plane get the conference room get. Everybody in the conference room magic's going to come, and speak to the team and then he's going to go back to the forum. And have a press conference you guys are going to get on, a. Plane and fly away Okay and it was a magic's plan so that his teammates didn't.

00:53:40
Speaker 1: Have.

00:53:40
Speaker 2: To face the media okay he was going, to, face the media alone okay and then, eventually they would have to but by that time. It would have been announced so this is like the day or two before. This is GOING to happen Where Now. I, Practice at loyola marymount okay AND all of a sudden i GET a message from The I think it was brian quinn was. The ad At The time call the jerry west need you. To CALL the office immediately. So i, call, the office what, now okay and he says get everybody, out of the, GYM immediately he tell them i don't care what they have for. The rest of. The, day we're, at practice okay stop practice get. Everybody out of the gym tell them to report to. THE forum at two o'clock i don't care what else they. Have, planned in their lives okay they need, to come to the forum and don't. Tell, anybody what's going on. Hey, There's BEEN a leak, OKAY so I Go, out i Get. MIKE dunley the go Mike I. Need everybody at CENTER court, and, SO then i say listen i can't, tell YOU what's going on but i need everybody to, leave this building. Right, away getting your cars, hey don't talk to anybody. Don't, Talk TO the media hey and i need everybody to go come to. The forum at two o'clock you'll find. Everything out at that point, AND like guys are grumbling, i GOT stuff, to, DO and i said. Listen i know you do but what, YOU'RE going, to hear today i mean it's hard to believe like, this HAPPENED so long ago and i still feel this way because it takes. You back, TO the, moment you know i said what you here today is going. To change your, life forever but once again you got to UNDERSTAND we, thought he was i mean and this is somebody that's pretty, important, To, All of us right okay so what happens next is it gets leaked, and, it's on the radio okay and so some guys are getting in their car, and they're, putting music on you know, like, CDs in those days right and some guys. Are listening to the news so everybody shows up at the farm and get. Him in the, locker room we're in there and now what happens is some guys know. And SOME guys don't know and i realized that because the guys that know are coming up. To me and SAYING yeah and so now i don't think it's it's, my responsibility to tell everybody, but. It's AN odd situation okay so i GET everybody, in, There and i said listen magic's going to come down here in a few minutes. And explain everything to everyone but, he's, he's going to retire okay and he'll come. Down. And tell you why right so he comes down and. The man just looked impeccable he, had this beautiful, suit on start white collar and he gets up in front of everybody and tells him that he HAS to. Retire because he's hiv positive and then and Only A way THAT a magic johnson that. I knew no can do he went to like each guy and hugged him and then, whispered something, in their ear you know. Something personal to each person and so the last two people in This Sort, of rotation are, bill burka our. Assistant. Coach, And then me last now bert, is, a really, stoic man.

00:57:55
Speaker 1: Tough tough.

00:57:56
Speaker 2: Guy and he's still alive. He's ninety eight years Old and he he hugs bill and says, whatever He says to him, and, bill's Knees just buckle okay and. Magic's like holding him up and, so, then that makes. Me, yeh kind? Of emotional NOW what happened one thing i. Negated to say that day the. Day that we got back the next day and we, Had practice in the morning magic said he wanted, to meet me before practice but and before. Everyone else got TO practice so him and i met. Privately, in the, LOCKER room, okay he knew i knew but, he wanted to meet me and so we talked a little bit. And and hugged it out.

00:58:45
Speaker 1: What's what's his Energy like now is he i'm.

00:58:49
Speaker 2: Going to tell you okay so so, now he gets to me and we've already Had our moment okay at loyola right private and so trying to make it easy young, kind of. Both of us you know he GIVES me, a hug, and, i, said it's okay man okay. We've already had our moment and, then he, SAID to, me he goes i know but it. Doesn't. Make it, any easier. Okay i'm, emotional. He's not he's stoic okay. And then he went, upstairs we all did okay and he faced the world IS what you saw on tv and without. A tear in his eye initially he told, THE world privately, with me, i asked him you Know how you doing. Because I'm not doing well obviously. I'm. STILL not doing well okay i haven't been. Like, THIS in a. While okay i. Don't know maybe it's you it. Brings it out of ME but WOULD when when i and i wrote this in this, Whole STORY in, the book but i? Said? HOW are, you Okay man i said because. I'm not doing very well and, he literally, said To me he goes when, god gave me this disease he gave. It to, The right person he said. I'm going to beat this i'm gonna do, Something. Really good with, you okay and OF course, As cynical as i am. I'm, like dudes in denial, man he's, going to die you know and it's going, to be an ugly death right because, because that wasn't you know used to fall. ASLEEP and, not wake, up i mean you suffered and he did in his life exactly what he said. He was going, to DO look, at him like i said he's going To outlive us all and. I'm so grateful for that, and, he's, done great things right great he's DONE great, things, for the hiv community. Hey for, the underserved community you know he took that same mentality, that he, used in sports you know to do. Other THINGS in, his life, and i mean you gotta you, gotta. HAND it, to him man, i mean, he's you know. HE'S magic, HE'S he's yeah i mean i don't know what. Else TO say, about it. Like i said he's special.

01:01:36
Speaker 1: THANK you for sharing, that I can, only, imagine like, I said.

01:01:39
Speaker 2: No you, Can't. I can't can't, imagine okay i mean imagine okay to, be like you're IN it. You know what I mean it's it's like, I still, to, THIS day i'm Like like i DON'T think i'm Very spec i don't. Think I'M special at all but i. Had. A very special position yo why me not the only, athletic trainer? In the? WORLD you KNOW why me i hope i. Was worthy of the position and it's the SAME thing with that that i, just wasn't part of it was, at the. Center of it you know and then he decides to come back and comes out of retire because there was. Sort of a, process there if you Remember First He did the all star game And. Then he, did the olympics.

01:02:31
Speaker 1: SO yeah, We Wanted to i mean karl malone made comments and he said he doesn't. WANT to share the court Mj Hugged Him. After the all Star game That, was the orlando in ORLANDO, right WHERE you WENT mvp m. H and mj hugged HIM so, obviously there's a i mean obviously to, go back to, that time like, you said like you thought like, THE rest of, us start i was little BUT, like when you hear hiv you think the next step is they're not going. To be with us ANYMORE that's. You know what i mean so to have the mindset he had in the in the foresight. To do what he did so then you think back on what was, said and how people, moved, and it's just like ah it's kind of but we don't know enough. To kind of really safely so it's just like you kind of saw there's some real sides of some. Some, people During That time yeah.

01:03:15
Speaker 2: And mark price was the other dude okay that didn't. Want to play with them and and, then there was a Guy there's a player from australia because they were Going to play in The, magical play in the olympics right in the Stream team and he said i'd rather win a silver medal. THAN than play, with him, I was like silver medal you're, not, gonna meddle. At all okay.

01:03:37
Speaker 1: You know.

01:03:39
Speaker 2: And and SO one of the things i think that, because people heard those Guys They, heard they HEARD mark price and then i kind of understand what What they didn't hear was magic's teammates, coming to me and, saying are you sure okay because they're going to play a game. HERE or there with him i got. To practice with this dude, every day in, those, days We practiced, hard, right and i'm. Going yeah don't, worry now at that point we. Were ALL much more educated and i Got To. Hand It to david stern david stern used his position and magic situation to, educate everyone in the league from owners right down to the team. Attendance of the ball BOYS everybody knew More About, hiv thanks to david. Stern and that included me AND because once again that i was, at the center of it we didn't. Have, a bloodborn pathogen protocol okay guys were. Bleeding on the every day so what is are?

01:04:50
Speaker 1: Are there scares in practice are there scares and games? When he does come back and?

01:04:54
Speaker 2: And? And what is that well this this is why. He retired the second time so we're Playing A. Preseason game in chapel? Hill, what year is this okay, THIS is. Probably. NINETY three i guess okay i feel like my, life has been one big long year from. Birth until twenty twenty six it's just every day, it's just like ANOTHER day? You know what i mean like IT'S hard for me to i, KNOW what years we want i know what? Years where kids WERE born, you KNOW what i mean AND i, know how old i am but like it. All. Sort of runs Together Right, So We're. In chapel hill north carolina I'm Pretty sure it was sean, rooks WAS on our team and I. Think it was him magic, we're playing, in the game preseason, GAME and we were there. I think because we're playing I, think WE were playing cleveland And I think it Was, matt doherty was from Carolina, the center for The Cavs and we had james worthy And It was, At the dean don't right and so that's why they did. Preseason games in those days go to a CITY that, doesn't have an nba team you get star players from both teams that, went to the same school and then everybody wants to. Come and see them play so there's sort of some sort of marketing you know. That That went into it and magic gets his fingernail scratched and one Of, my players Is like, Magic it's, LIKE i'm looking i'm looking i don't see anything and GET a dead Ball And, I say to. Ed rush i go ed one Of my guys says that, magic, scratch has a scratch yeah which means. You get a, bloodborne passage and time out so. It's not charged either team and So he looks and so magic comes to the sideline and, it's a non, bloody wound non bloody wound. But you could see. Red his skin. Is. Open, it's a scratch okay now if, he's bleeding and there's blood then you put gloves. On in the whole bit. But THERE isn't any blood so i take out a. SIX inch cotton tip applicator i spray, some tough skin on it which is. Like sticky stuff you dry you know what you do in that case is you hand the player, a gloss pat. Say here put THIS. On he already has hiv he can't, give, It more to, himself right so, he's handling you, know this drying his skin making sure it doesn't the Wound doesn't start bleeding. While i'm getting stuff ready and then you kind of paint, the area around the wound and then you. Slap a bandage on it and the tough skin is that the bandage, will stick, because he's gonna you know and then you can put like a. Sweatband, over it or whatever well you look up and you see everybody STARING at us, CAMERAS on hiv positive guy i got. The gloves in, my pocket i'm telling everybody you. Can't get it that way now, You're, gonna put gloves on like how? Do you face those people it's you're sending a. Mixed message, To the world you know i'm telling you you. Can't GET it that WAY and i WERE so i didn't wear i. Didn't put, The gloves on YOU know it's all like i was sticking my, finger in an OPEN wound. You Know what i mean so magic saw, the looks on, EVERYBODY'S faces and you know i believe, we NEVER had this conversation but i BELIEVE that, he saw what i saw and he felt like he was. Taken away from the game. And, then he retired again, now if you didn't retire maybe. It would have blown over but. The fact that he did the, next day after he retired he's on the front page of. Every newspaper, In The world you know magic johnson hiv play. Retires second time from basketball but. He's not on there alone i'm on there. With them without the Gloves Who's? The dude From rhode island YOU you so, there's as i understand this There Is a doctor From rhode, island OBVIOUSLY a celtics fan and i believe he WAS, having some, ISSUES, With Oshaky you Know Osha. Occupational safety and health administration so they, come into a doctor's office make sure you are, Doing everything YOU know right and so i think HE. Was having troubles with osha they were finding him or whatever for not doing. What he's supposed to do and so he files a, formal complaint against me saying you're you're in. My, office looking at me well YOU have a guy that's hiv positive and a guy taking care of HIM without. Gloves knowing HE'S hiv positive. So, that osha investigates me well when THEY, open the door to osha you, open the door to everything which means now, they come, into the forum you know are all the? Signs in the right place are you teaching the people that work there how to bend their knees when they? Lift? Everything gets wide open okay and and so that's a, big Thing On, our owner doctor buss okay because now they're threatening to. Find him for certain things and through the education that we all had because they're wasn't a blood born pathogen protocol prior to magic convert and, share a positive for age you. Had, to put one, in well at that point nobody knew, More about IT than me so the mba asked me To write. The BLOOD born pathogen protocol so. I, broke MY own protocol okay but i, did It For a reason and david stern was really Angry With, me and called jerry west who. Was equally ANGRY WITH me and then i i, took the attitude that listen you do. WHAT you, got To do i said but, i'm telling you right, NOW circumstances as they WERE i, don't REGRET what i did and. I would Do it again and doctor. Buss stuck up for me now it probably, took, A year Or two okay and eventually, oosha came around, and said given the. Circumstances you handle things well, but that was PAGE eight. You know what i, Mean so nobody really ever, so he, DIDN'T get fined you know, i didn't lose my, job but it you know, maybe that's PART of also like how i get. Upset about the whole story it was a couple of years of, my life, that were, bad like BAD you KNOW like like i thought i was going TO lose, this guy, that i loved, you know, on my watch you know and, then on top of, it they're. Coming after me you know but. It all. ENDED up great you know i spent thirty two, years with a, great owner, great General, manager you, know, pat riley. GREAT coach, know, great players i mean yeah as. Great as my career, was here's. A, FEW things YOU know.

01:13:14
Speaker 1: Yeah i mean i think. We all have those dips, thank you for sharing again you know that that's obviously a significant but also brings back a lot of memories, And and you know pain so THANK you for. Sharing, that i.

01:13:30
Speaker 2: Gathered Myself now, Welcome back Uh magic's.

01:13:34
Speaker 1: Out shaq and kobe in there's, some Downtimes In between there but shaq magic was the end of an incredible era That, we all loved from afar and again you were right. In The center of that shaq, Is signed his Free Agent Kobe's. Traded for vladion draft day what Do we remember about The shack. Signing, and The kobe trade.

01:13:57
Speaker 2: Well the shack signing. WAS like order the rings i mean, it was literally that. Attitude, like order the, rings okay, because you, know we were you know known for, being a, low Post team you know WITH kareem. You know what i mean and now, we add you know what what could have been maybe the most dominant center in. The history, of the Game You. Know, You, Know Brad, doherty no brad brad dorty the Big guy That. Played At. Chicago And. Sacramento brad miller brad, miller.

01:14:34
Speaker 1: We talked about this but. Almost took his, head, OFF.

01:14:37
Speaker 2: He ALMOST did right i. DON'T i don't know why i. Was at, the scores tables maybe checking like sometimes you might, miss a, foul or something you know you take. Some of those those stats. I'm at The. Scorer's TABLE here goes Brad, and i, NEVER have brad. SO like, I don't know i mean. I know who he is I apparently. Knows so who i am and so he's CHECKING In the, Game, while i i'm there hey and he looks down, at me, and, he goes, he, Goes. Gee look up yeah, brad, he's, Seven, Feet tall, right yeah brad, He goes tell me truth he's four hundred pounds. In. Me AND he's, Serious rights so i start. I'm trying, not to laugh, you Know there's people there but. I'M kind, of, Cracking, up i go no, Brad, he's, Three fifty eight, Okay now i'm, telling you i'm. Telling you, re weigh him he. Goes he's four hundred pounds i'm using ALL of my strength. And I cannot move him and brad. WAS a, big strong dude i mean he. Wasn't like a skinny seven he. Was, A big strong dude okay so. So, that was the deal okay you. Get shock ON your roster used to i, say THIS all the time and, i SAID this to him and i fought with HIM all as, Much as i love him.

01:15:57
Speaker 1: We.

01:15:57
Speaker 2: Fought All the time okay if jack, wanted to win every game. You would win every game it. Was pretty much that simple if, he wanted every single rebound he would Have gotten, every single, re i'm like you, know long shots wung rebound so there might have been some, that corombed off THE rim. You know what, i mean but even then, if, he wanted that ball.

01:16:20
Speaker 1: Okay and you saw, enough to. Cut You off young shit so shack was what twenty three twenty four in that, Age.

01:16:27
Speaker 2: It was ninety six so, whatever WHATEVER his, age was he i mean, he not only was huge, he moved. LIKE a, cat you know i.

01:16:35
Speaker 1: Mean he was like what kind of jokester in prankster WAS he early on because i got a chance to play with him and. He was over the top but what was he like? EARLY on at that. AGE i can only.

01:16:45
Speaker 2: Imagine I loved the man, but i gotta tell you you were looking over your. Show instantly all the. Time you would not have my advice was don't eat anything that's not coming out. Of, a hermetically sealed canister okay because you like. You never. Know you.

01:17:18
Speaker 1: Anything it's.

01:17:19
Speaker 2: Crazy i've told. This, story IT'S pretty nasty okay this i think is the worst thing. That, he, did TO me okay yeah. So I knew enough, too IF i first off if i had, TO go to the bathroom i would go. In, the, coaches LOCKER room okay yeah but i thought. He, WAS on the court okay. I thought this during practice i thought. HE was on the court i. Saw him go out there there's. A. Complete lapse of judgment okay i'm no, one TO blame but. MYSELF because i. KNEW better i knew better, i, Went In to uriny right, so i'm at the urinal and you would think you, would have seen his foot because this is twenty two, like this, At A glance you know but i didn't really look to see if he was if. He was In the stall and so i'm, in there taking a leak, AND all of a sudden I hear my name and i turn around, and, he's seven feet tall right. So he's towering over there, he's, standing in the stall hey with toilet paper that he just, wiped, Wiped his butt with okay and so so my. Reaction IS you disgusting case and i. HEAR him, Look at it i said i'm. Turning my head like that. I'M not, looking at it. I said look at it. I'm not looking at it i'm, Not, GONNA look, at it okay. I said look at it. I wouldn't look at, IT all of a sudden i see something out. Of the corner of mine. He threw it at that.

01:19:18
Speaker 1: Fucking, well.

01:19:20
Speaker 2: YOU are, it's nasty, nasty. I mean that's nasty okay and, then the other you know he went. To like, The police academy all right so he's, going to the police academy like everybody, on the, team knows IT you, know and he's i mean you gotta love him, to, some of this stuff funny some of the, stuff he's coming in with like these, these magazines with LIKE holsters, you know what i mean and like all this POLICE ship, you know what, i mean like you know like like a belt with like like where? The where, the guns are like me, he goes, here during, practice he goes you know anything to look through this and pick out, some cool ship FOR me. You know what, I, mean he's telling YouTube yeah telling, me to, do it, right like bandoleros you. Know over bullets AND stuff. You know what i MEAN did, you tell him i said came. In, with his nipples piercing yeah. Wanted to show me right and then he you know he, could he could DO that. You, know what i, mean, say you know what man you got too much money and too, much time on your hands and. That's. A really bad combination right so he's going to the police academy and now he comes in and like's, if he's got an audience it's when. You. Know you're in trouble right so he's got people in the training room and he, takes, one look at me. Okay and He grabs me, and if shad grabs it. There's nothing you can do there's nothing. You. Can do about it right he grabs, me against against the War motherfucker spread, him like i'm a purp right and like and, so like he's FRISKING me, you know what i, mean In front of. Everybody. Like i'm, a criminal okay you know the, first time, it, was funny was cute right but now this, starts to become you know, the second and third, time and like by now like the, SECOND and the third. Time i say, him coming and, THIS morning this one. MORNING i, was pretty. Busy, i said not today okay you. Know ye had just, laughs, You know. It's funny. Good NOT today, I'm busy what i. SAID i'm, not kidding around. I said, leave, me alone i'm busy, okay fel LOAD what, okay next thing i know, boom up against the, wall. Up against the, wall motherfucker so he reaches he. Reaches, in front of me right.

01:21:57
Speaker 1: The.

01:21:57
Speaker 2: ONLY thing you, can do i bit him, bit him, on, The HAND all right okay like i, didn't break skin or anything but. Bit, him on the, hand Like let me go otherwise. I'm. Gonna start clamping down right he looks. At everybody in the room. He goes he's resisting arrest.

01:22:16
Speaker 1: He.

01:22:16
Speaker 2: Winds, UP to hit me, okay I see it coming and i kind. Of turned and first off it wasn't a, full, shock hit because yeah, right well he did okay but but not even. LIKE what. A full hit.

01:22:35
Speaker 1: I.

01:22:35
Speaker 2: Thought, he broke my pelvis, okay he dropped me. Okay, AND then he laughed okay i. Had to, Get two injections. ASK him he'll tell you i had to get. TWO injections in my back i lipped around, for a couple of days and then We Had, a game and, doctor lombardo. Our team, doc came in he? GOES what happened, TO you, i told, him i said, you know you. HIT men because hit me, i had two carterson shows carterson shots in my back and.

01:23:05
Speaker 1: Able, to you know, that's serious two.

01:23:07
Speaker 2: Of, them two of them, yeah so, he did well you. KNOW he did his. Doc i told that story This isn't the. First time i've told. That he, laughs, at it, he thinks no, he yeah to this day. He still, laughs at, it he goes he Goes But the one thing i'll i'll Say about, it about vide he goes he DIDN'T wrap me out like I Didn't. Go up to jerry west so you gotta. Do something about this.

01:23:30
Speaker 1: Guy you know that's insane so you get shack and we'll talk, About The, on court greatness but kobe.

01:23:37
Speaker 2: When did?

01:23:38
Speaker 1: You Start seeing something him obviously jerry. Was very high on him vlotty was a, big part of, this team And you Know obviously. Getting kobe made bloody expendable you. Get a young teenage kid and then the second Part of that QUESTION is kobe was at ucla a lot early on, and there was you know you hear rumors or it could be truth that there's just kind of wasn't he. Wasn't vibing with the team so can you also speak to that. If that's, true or not.

01:24:03
Speaker 2: All right let me start This Before, he became the black mamba because there's like. Two, completely different people here okay there's this guy that was on His Birth, certificate it says kobe bryant and then there's This Other. Guy that's the black, mamba and it's really hard like if, you knew the two people it's really hard to know that they come, Out, of the same body. Okay, Because They're diametrically opposite okay kobe, bryant is like the sweetest. Nicest, guy you've ever met okay if you, saw him with His daughters my daughters probably the prime example of the beauty that's inside of him is with a make a wish kid, that, would make, you CRY okay because everybody even i had, To, make a wish kid okay somebody that wanted, to be, an athletic trainer you know and that being able to make a wish, kid, is a difficult, thing, Okay because they're ill right and so as much as you feel like, you need to do this there's a part, of you that IS like, you know what i mean you want to kind, of get out of there but but you. Don't, let them feel bad kobe he would have spent our. DAYS hours, with these kids i mean he, was so good with them and you could see the love that that came out of. His HEART and their heart and i, USED to, say to, him i said you know the rest of the world. Doesn't, KNOW this, about you, YEAH i said you know. I realize something about you so he, got a heart of gold It's JUST surrounded by ship and i used to. Make him make him laugh so now. He comes to the. Team, He's. Seventeen, years old crazy Okay. Vlada let's talk about vladi vloody was, A, legit seven foot center okay he wasn't a six to eleven guy That, Were trying to make yeah. Vladi is his seventh foot, he got. HANDS like, this Great hands i mean, if bloody touched the ball, it, Was it was his okay and and, he was a great player great player to, Give up a seven footer it's hard, to come by these guys right for. A seventeen year. OLD kid i didn't. SEE i, Didn't Get that i mean jerry, west is, the brilliant guy but? Like are you kidding me you just gave away a lot. Of Devats, for this kid and okay so then. Now let's talk about that if you're me and you're looking at and probably you before you saw what he became, anybody that's in the game when you look, at him through basketball Eyes There's, nothing special about kobe's okay is? He big, compared to ME he's big but. By nba standards, not, really is HE strong yes but, by nba standards. He wasn't like? Prove strong could he? Run was he, quick fast yes, he was, but once AGAIN you, know not by. Nba, standards not an outlier, okay he's certainly, quick enough and you, know playing in the. League especially at? That, position could he jump yeah but he didn't have like a Forty Plus vertical and like zach lavine. Or one of these guys so what was there about him that he ends up with five rings and guys that were more if you want to use the word, talented or gifted or whatever it. Is infinitely MORE have none and so I didn't see, it until, I saw it you know and. It wasn't there right away and part of the Reason why it wasn't there and this Is, NOT a, knock on dell i believe And you'd Have To have jerry ask jerry West this in our next lives, when we see him Again is did you Hire? Dell because you wanted dell dell was a brilliant, had a brilliant basketball mind brilliant and so you, take this seventeen, year old really brash kid and now we GOT to. Teach from the nba game and So What, better guy, than Del harris who's. Like like dell wrote books There's Books out there by del harris about, defensive schemes and OFFENSIVE stuff, you know what i mean to teach, the kid, How to play you know and that's that's How we Had Problems With dell And nick van exell because Dell, was trying, to Coach nick you know And nick is literally like dell's coaching from, the Sideline in the game and nick Is, literally yelling back at dell don't, tell me, how to play and well that's literally his job is to tell. You, How to, do that, OKAY but okay you. Know i get It right and And so dell, didn't play, kobe A lot you know because kobe was Going to play the way kobe wanted to play because He, modeled his game After michael. But He Wasn't michael yet.

01:30:00
Speaker 1: And, eddie, jones Was There too right because eddie jones Was on.

01:30:04
Speaker 2: The, team stable jones was yes it was, our first round draft track so, he, Was in that position okay and and and that's when, they, Made, that decision that okay eddie You're gone because now. Now kobe is he's Ready and you Really pissed kobe off that eddie was playing because They. Knew each other from philly and if you talk to kobeb he's not even, kicking his ass FOR years, you know what i mean, the playground or the gym. High school gym or, whatever And so You know even michael wasn't michael. When He first Came. In so kobe Wasn't michael. It wasn't even Kobe Yet he, wasn't, the black mamba yet okay but, you couldn't tell him that.

01:30:55
Speaker 1: And.

01:30:55
Speaker 2: Then, eventually he got there now part of the Problem with that. Is, that, shack, saw that, Okay like, Okay you know. Vlade's gone I'm the guy so it's i'm, sure all teams Do, this but historically the lakers, the night before training camp we have a team dinner and then everybody, kind of, introduces, themselves okay and says like, you know who. They are what they do and if you're, a player, and you're new you know especially if you, came from college or whatever you explain. That everybody pretty much knows but then they hear, you, Say who you are right kobe got, up there, And He goes you Know Kobe Bryant, came from, LOWER mariam Hey and, listen I know i'm, young and i'm A rookie and i. KNOW i'm gonna get hit i, know IT'S a physical game but i want you. GUYS to worry about me i don't want. YOU to worry about. ME i CAN take it i, know I can, TAKE it and i mean i, don't KNOW everybody else, felt but i was like are? You trying to convince, us trying to, convince, yourself because trust me brother you have no. IDEA what's, coming at you i mean you're you're in, with the big guys now and they're gonna. Start running you INTO pit, you know what i, mean send, them my way you know. Work, Back in the day right and and so then you know they laid a wood, on, A kid Like that right and then shaq gets up there And All he, says Is i'm shaquille O'Neill and i'm a mother fucking prolific score and then. He. Went and sat Down okay so so if kobe gets, the, ball in, his hands hey you know instead of it going into shack, for either shack to score which you know you got, to, feed, the big dog right okay, or you you you know the offense is usually in those days you don't see anybody, in the low post today, but goes in, Out right put it. In it goes back, out defense starts moving around the ball. Moves faster than the people the young, guy, gets an open, shot okay and you know it's it's a, it's kind of you know somebody's going. To Get an open show then kobe would take, it UPON himself the Score and i think in shack's eyes as you haven't earned, the, right for that yet okay and then. He. Nicknamed him show Boat okay now.

01:33:40
Speaker 1: You have.

01:33:43
Speaker 2: Shack that is seven, foot three hundred Plus, pounds and, you got. Cobe YOU know six seven. Now i have this theory you'd be a good guy to. Bounce it off, of that you, take young a smaller guy you put him. In the gym all alone they can be in there, for two or. Three, hours all By Themselves okay they become, michael jordan, in their head you. Know work on their game they could. Do all sorts of things you got a big guy seven Foot does the, mic, and joe left right, left right after thirty minutes what? Are they going, to do in those days big guys, were, in shuit. For threes right you, know and so.

01:34:30
Speaker 1: You know.

01:34:33
Speaker 2: Not To, take anything away from shaq, but.

01:34:38
Speaker 1: By his.

01:34:38
Speaker 2: Size alone he could dominate, plus he had good hands and he did have catlike reflexes, and that kind of thing and so he didn't have to work as. Hard to be as dominant and that, was Very. Obvious to everyone especially kobe i'm working my, ass off and you're not and we're not winning because, they came in ninety six we. Didn't Win the two thousand so kobe's getting. More and more pissed off i'm getting. Pissed off to it. Shack but for different reasons one practice would help, him get into better, condition BUT maybe most importantly and i, LITERALLY said, this to him i said you got to understand that, You, are in these words, okay you are so big you. Literally fuck up the game you, take up too much space which means the spacing on the floor when you're in the game is different than when. You're NOT in the game so i need you to get on the practice floor so that what we practice. Is. The way, we'll, play, okay and yeah YEAH yeah. YOU know, what i. Mean i couldn't you know and, so, we used To fight okay and then kobe, got really angry, With him, and, you know, shaq's like Well, you know looking at kobe says. You can't, Win without, me, you know kobe's like well, you can't win without me. And Then the schism starts now i've Been on the record and. I'll say it here again it Is really Easy, to blame shaq and kobe. Very easy to blame them what about. All the rest. Of us we're a, team. Seems like a family, right sometimes with your family you get mad at, your mom and your dad or, your brother or your sister but. You know up loving them what's the. Same thing, with a, team it's hard you know to be loving. Every day with all everybody somebody's, gonna, Pish you, off eventually right but literally. We stopped loving each other and the, more anger that was created. The more divisive it became. And people started, choosing sides players, chose sides staffs shose, sides the fans show sides and. The whole thing came apart.

01:37:39
Speaker 1: And.

01:37:40
Speaker 2: It's REALLY troublesome to me sometimes i get choked up about it. BECAUSE it, WAS my family i mean, i, have my family family okay but. This was also my family and. We should have won ten we literally should have won ten. Championships and, we won five you know well we won, three, with two of Them okay five would fill and the problem with not winning it Is, that when you don't okay here's one OF the things like when, i talk to young PEOPLE one, of The things i, Say as i've gotten older i've realized that the two most important commodities that we have in the. World are water and time you. Cannot stay alive without water as, long as you have water they can keep. You alive pretty, much time once it's gone, you. Cannot get it back can't so you need to be prudent on how. You use those two, things and once you've. Lost the loss is gone, you can't get it back and there may not be tomorrow you, might, ever get a chance okay to be in. That position to win again and that's kind of. What, happened For a while okay and. Kobe didn't want TO play he told me i don't want to play. WITH a dominant big Men i think partly because. Michael never played with it it's, some pretty good Big men But, not a Kareem Abdul. Jabbar not a shack okay and, THEN guess what he realized. I need A big, GUY and then powell comes.

01:39:31
Speaker 1: I want to back up a little. Bit before we'll get there phil comes in. Ninety nine and what changes how does he get these two star personalities on the same page at least if, it's only? For, the games got it okay there. Is a reason for starters phil.

01:39:48
Speaker 2: Comes. In with six rings okay so he. COMES in, with instant credibility i mean you know it, is these guys come in you, got, To earn their respect right they don't. Walk in and get it but he had. Already earned it. From everyone that's part one part two is, he's got a five year twelve. Million dollars a year contract you've got. A sixty million dollar contract guess what. That's, telling all The players yes, that, doctor buss, is saying hey. Guess what that's our. Guy, this is our guy okay because players, can get a guy fired but you're not going to be quick to fire a sixty million dollar. Guy. That's got six rings, okay so, he comes in you know and that's when, The term, IN those days if remember i. Know where it came from the pill.

01:40:37
Speaker 1: Was.

01:40:37
Speaker 2: Wearing the daddy pants okay so he comes. In with The six. Rings he Was Michael's coach kobe loved michael hey and we ran the, triangle and as a. Result this team needed structure and there isn't more structure in, any offence than the triangle, but also with the triangle and you KNOW more, about BASKETBALL than, I am than i. Do i never will know there's, one, thing about the triangle okay is, that, you need a finisher okay because after you've run through twenty to twenty, three, seconds of the triangle okay and, you don't have a shot the ball's got to go in. Somebody's Hands that Can finish and chicago Had michael and we had kobe okay and shot and so without that because other teams, have tried to run it but they didn't have, a. Guy THAT could finish okay and i, think that's that gets lost okay when people talk about the triangle in. This and this and that, and so between the, long the five, year contract the big Money the six rings, that, phil came in with okay and a structural offense that everybody bought into because, everybody then touches the ball and so you'd have guys that, we're playing, without the ball you know and so you had to have the. Right guys on your team there were certain guys that we had on the team that you, would not consider great, athletes like being QUICK construint. You know what i mean but, they knew, how to play you know and they. Fit in into that triangle so sort of. Everything, worked until it didn't Okay.

01:42:47
Speaker 1: So Three p when kobe and check, were on the same page and you've, seen a lot of? Basketball? How Special were.

01:42:55
Speaker 2: They fantastic the THE only other team that i enjoyed WATCHING as as much as I. Enjoyed, watching, That Was. Sacramento yeah okay rick adaman nobody. EVER talks about the guy i don't know where he. IS or what he's doing i never, had him as a coach but that was one of the MOST well coached teams that i really. Enjoyed watching those guys, play they could beat. Inside they, could beat outside you, know they moved, the ball they were unselfish they had they had guys that. Maybe DIDN'T create a shot, like i, used to say they're shooters. And, then they're shot makers okay so you might, not have had a shooter but. He was a shot maker you You get the ball to pasia and you you give him one or two seconds. To get a, shot off trouble he's yeah. He's going to bury it, and and so you know? Does, That, ANSWER your question yeah well.

01:44:03
Speaker 1: I want to touch on SOMETHING real quick that that i forgot about because you and, you Mentioned this last Time the sacramento, series, where cold got Sick right food poisoning. AND sacramento from, A burger i don't.

01:44:16
Speaker 2: Know, i don't remember what yeah but back.

01:44:18
Speaker 1: And forth the referee and. Has been called in question what's your? Point of View of that, because if i'm not state did you Guys Go? ON and play new Jers I? Think it, WAS new jersey that Yeah. I think, we, swept Jersey but that yeah that king series was was special. Or hits, a big shot you know a lot. OF different stuff going on i want. To, kind of that series okay Well let's go back to kobe. Being, sick FIRST of all okay So i don't know. IF i've ever, told this i might HAVE. But and this is tmi that's why. It's good FOR your podcast so. SO i get, the call, i, don't remember maybe two, three FOUR in the morning and i mean he's doing figure, eights, around the toilet, bowl, right.

01:45:00
Speaker 2: And he's gonna dude you. Get you give me something. You gotta give me, something and in those days we didn't, we didn't, travel a. Physician, you know an interness okay if we if we did travel a doctor with, us only in the playoffs it. Would, have been an orthopod okay and so you're probably better off. Of me than you know and and so what he really needed was like a, shot of, Composine, or something you know okay well to stop the the abdominal cramping and. That That, kind of stuff right like if you've ever heard, the pink, floights are comfortable comfortably numb everybody thinks it's a song about whoever the. Guy was. But doing drugs it wasn't he had food poisoning, and and, he had these you know and the doctor called the doctor and he comes and he gives them a shot of composine and, it slows everything, down down and you know and. He kind of falls asleep but. That made him comfortably Numb so. That's REALLY what kobe needed. But i DIDN'T have that but what i did. Have was, a, composing suppository oh SHIT yeah, so, he's, gonna i, SAID listen dude you know i could take it to a. Twenty four. Hour EMERGENCY room you know so i go in there and he's in his bed and he's like. Curled UP like, a shrimp because i said. Or we, go this route?

01:46:41
Speaker 1: HE goes?

01:46:41
Speaker 2: What is, that i think he said. LOOKS like, a silver bullet I, said what KIND of, yeah and so i, said, it's. A COMPASSING it suppository suppositive am i? SUPPOSED to, do it that i said you know? You're supposed to do it did you? Put your not doing? That he's not doing that you put?

01:47:01
Speaker 1: Your gloves on the.

01:47:02
Speaker 2: Seat can't pay me, enough we came to that. We WERE going, TO emergency, so, i said i said well come and check up. On you a, little while and he says, if you feel. Bad enough, You'll DO it so yeah SO i left and then i came. Back a little, while later he, was asleep and then.

01:47:33
Speaker 1: Yeah and then he came out and doing his thing, On the court after.

01:47:39
Speaker 2: Right and so he believes to this day that that. The hotel people poisoned him who knows, they did or they, Didn't but he was, sick he was really sick and you can't. You couldn't keep him down so the, big question, at that point you know the big issue is is can you when, can you stop, The cramping stop the diarrhea but. Then the diarrhea causes dehydrations then. You have to rehydrate them there's no way that you, can drink that back in so it's got, To be an ivy okay so then, you got, to get them you know a. Couple of bags of ringers and then what's interesting with that is is that if you let's say the, room temperature is, seventy degrees which is warm but your, Body's ninety eight point six so you put a seventy degree fluid into. Your, body and your bloodstream yeah so we'd have to warm it UP and, you know what i mean and try to get it in little by little by little over time so that. He could he could play so, you do all these things. And he Ended up playing and Then god bles vlaate so vlaatee retires and there. They open, up a museum you know there's A, museum, For him in serbia right, and so he Calls, me, and he calls, burka okay and he says they're having an opening, a MUSEUM for me here and i Want, To invite You and BILL burka and martha and i Had, just GOTTEN back FROM italy and i said i can't get on the, plane, And GO back, There Right and, i said so, burka WENT but we didn't but I made, a video, and i said you know Sometimes you just think about vlati and how Much. HE gave, to the lakers i, mean even after he Left he was still given like that one time he just tapped. That ball right the rock, that, Was my video too right but that the game, with the with. The call the, controversial call in my mind. It's not Controversial at. All, that was sacramento's. BALL yeah we screwed him i, mean, we didn't the official okay but but that should have been Their ball and and. AND i'm, glad it, wasn't i, mean you, know, you know, fuck them, okay BUT yeah but yeah so.

01:50:13
Speaker 1: I love the three Rings. Shaq leaves off to. MIAMI kobe understands the Importance i think they, understand Shak runs right away but kobe kind of Understands the importance. Of what shaq FIELD uh able to get pow, and build a new team able to. Win two More with that him and phil had some ups. And DOWNS during that journey but i want to advance to like you. Just you just mentioned it you couldn't, keep Him off the court, but, kobe, would dislocate fingers shoulders ankles everything in in g you would, put Your hands on him and judy would put her hands on Him and and have him he did not want to miss. Any time on the court explain his toughness and his mental approach to just wanting to. Be, out there, every night.

01:50:53
Speaker 2: Yeah there's well LET'S go, back to like i said. There's nothing special about him so how does he End? Up with the five kays so part of it. Is, What you're, talking about okay first Off. Nobody, worked harder than cobe okay but there's a lot of. Guys that work really hard so kind of what the difference was is that Also. Nobody works smarter than kobe so everything was, done with almost like choreograph like he had in his mind what needed to be, done on that particular day and he just. Didn't go through, the motions he did it and he did it to, the best of his ability and he did it over and over again that DAY until he, felt like i accomplished it because a, lot of, times we go you know it, doesn't work the first time you. Keep. Chipping, away at it right then to get into more, into what you're talking. About, is his mental toughness hey he convinced himself he took the words can't and, won't out of his, alexa out of his lexicon and replaced the. Words with ken and will and he. Did that by challenging. Himself so little, KNOWN fact I've said this i think byron's podcasts and, a FEW times on interviews and i don't. Know if you know this did? YOU know he got. Waterboarded, i didn't know that yeah he Was hanging around with some navy seals and. This is around, the time but you know The guys that WERE in, cuba the gan gmo okay and they are waterboarding guys and it was. In humane and all that and so he starts talking, these seals and you know the seals is saying he, sounds like you're GONNA die. You know what i. Mean, you know it's torture yeah but you. Know nobody died, from, it, and he goes okay well.

01:52:50
Speaker 1: Let's give it a shot, he let him waterboard him Get the, fuck out of HIMAH yeah?

01:52:56
Speaker 2: So who do i? Mean what the you know, and and so you know he challenged himself to the point where my job more often was, trying, to hold them back okay. THEN pushing, them, out, there i say hey listen this is. Not in, your best. INTEREST you know our owner I have a, Responsibility to you're. An investment. YOU'RE an asset you know i, know that, sounds like shitty you know like you have an owner and you're. AN asset to, the, owner i get it, okay, but let's face it okay and it is a part of my responsibility, is. To protect that asset okay and that means protecting you from yourself and so convincing himself. That HE could do things Did i? Tell? YOU the sauce story. Yeah i like this one so? Do? You? Know THE movies so okay so. I never heard of it i. DIDN'T know what they were. I don't. Watch that stuff you, know, we're on the plane, okay and it's you know during. The, time with his DVDs right and. So, he comes he comes yeah he's sitting. In The front right okay and i'm like a. Couple of seats behind. Him and he. Comes up, HE'S all excited he. Goes i could do, It do WHAT he goes you'll. SEE i could do it i have no. Idea what he's talking ABOUT, he hands me. TO dvd he goes away i, pop, it in the computer right and.

01:54:33
Speaker 4: You.

01:54:34
Speaker 2: Know how it works, right so this particular, episode, because there's different ones right, is the reverse bear? Trap you know it is so you, know? What bear trap is right are.

01:54:45
Speaker 1: You talking about thousands of way to? A? Thousand ways To.

01:54:47
Speaker 2: Die No so the saw the, sauce series, is, about, this like yeah no. No get the bazillionaire guy and so the bear, trap does this snaps on but the reverse bear trap is. It goes the other way so if, you were living your life if, you were a healthy individual but living your life in a way that, you didn't deserve to live this, bazillionaire, guy who was dying okay who's going? To teach you a lesson, so he. Would capture you drug, you when you woke up you woke up in a, room, with something? Fucked there right all right and so this one. Was the reverse bear trap so you got this thing on your head and the claws of the bear trap, are like in your mouth, and so if it releases it's going. To, Rip your skull apart right and so there's a lock on it so that you can get it off if you have. The, key to the? Lock well where's the key the key has been, surgically embedded behind your eyeball and so YOU see, it on. An x ray the key so now you know when you wake up that if you want to, get out of this thing. The keys behind your eyeball the only other thing in. The Room is the scuffle so kobe watching this has already convinced himself, that if it was him he could cut his eyeball out to get the key to take the thing off. So that he could live and that was trying to convince me. That HE could, do, it AND i look oh so I watched this and now i know. Exactly what IT'S talking about and before I could say anything, goes i could, DO it and you, know I could do it. And i, LOOKED at, HIM you know i said, i believe You are. Right he could YOU know what.

01:56:45
Speaker 1: Was what i was talking about was we would Always watch One thousands of way to die before the, games In the locker room and cobe would always watch that SHIP and he WOULD always i. COULD do i could. Do i, would have it i'm like sometimes he would, just be quiet and chill but we. WOULD sometimes Up That Ship i remember thousands way if You Guys remember the show thousand ways to die like we would watch that ship and he was just like trying to figure out. Which ONE he, could beat.

01:57:07
Speaker 2: And i, mean you, know you know you know you gotta you, gotta chain around, your ankle you good hack so you, gotta take your, FOOT off like you know i didn't know. You guys were doing that AND that's the only saw i ever.

01:57:20
Speaker 1: That was enough.

01:57:21
Speaker 2: For me ONE and done but but i didn't know. You GUYS were, doing that but i yeah. Sounds right all the TIME and the one other i, Know you didn't ask this but the, one other characteristic about him nobody. Was more competitive than him but one of the keys was, was that if he lost he used that, loss to come. Back bigger better and stronger he watched that loss over, and over and over again and he realized that you learn more from your mistakes than you successes because a lot of times winning we sweep a lot of shit out of, the carpet. When, You Win you know.

01:58:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, SO i'm there. Two pete i get there the year, WE try to three peete i, tear my knee That year that's the year dallas snacked us And. Went on to beat miami fill announces he. Has cancer to the. Team it shook Everyone up We Transitioned from phil to mike brown. And shit starts getting crazy we also Make a transition from doctor buss handing The. Sun The keys to, jim if i'm not mistaken, take us, through because obviously looking back that was Kind of the. End of COBE's CHAMPIONSHIP window and one thing i always respected about him and what makes ME put him up where I put him up is cobe could have left and jumped on a team because you know how much. He wanted that sixth ring he won that. Sixth ring like no other he could have jumped ship and, when It got another ring but cobe rode. The SHIP till it sunk so i want to touch on The Transition enough kind, Of Mike brown coming in jim buss taking it in the behind the scenes, bullshit that was going on and then him eventually getting to the port. Where, He, tears his achilles, yeah okay.

01:59:13
Speaker 2: That's a lot let's see. But.

01:59:15
Speaker 1: You.

01:59:15
Speaker 2: Got It all yeah yeah so i'm just trying to figure, out the like the abcs so so one of the, one, and YOU know this okay and i don't know, if we talked about this but one of the only teams that has kind of gotten away with not going to the bottom And. Still being. Competitive is miami you know, but as a general rule, to get to the top you. Gotta. Go to The, bottom, okay so with powe yeah and This is. More with with mike D'Antoni powe was one of the, most legit, seven foot. GUY great hands magnificent basketball iq kind of got. This reputation of, Being Soft i'm telling you pal GASOL was not soft because i. Know what he played with he played. Beat up and six two. He just wasn't a banger marcus brother was. More, of a bigger banger okay he was, more of a finesse. Player and, he could, shoot we, could you know either. Hand score. Around the basket extremely talented and then and then we pulled him out from where a strength was in the low posts, out to the pinch, posts out to the elbow, and that really bothered him but he. Was very professional about it and then we Decided To, trade him and, lamar yeah and then exactly, but the trade was made so, they knew they were traded and, now we got to yes and now we got. To take him back There we were. Both pissed lamar never recovered that was, the beginning of the end like, he had issues before that but then he. Went. Over the deep bed okay powell, was also never the same but he. Was. More professional about it okay and, So, we lose those guys okay. We go to the bottom but what's happening is is. That. We're getting draft, choices now in those days you could, have a two headed monster, give, money to two guys okay and then you could have enough money to. Surround them with other, plays somewhere along, the way you probably know the league sort of changed from a two headed monster. To a three headed monster and now you. Got to pay three guys. But that's only three players you still got to put, two more on the floor and you got to bring at least two or three or four. More off of the bench there's not enough money. To surround them with people so we gave a Whole, bunch of money to kobe which sort of handcuffed us. To bring anybody else in, but, we were getting assets okay and so. We, went to the bottom now, when you get those assets you either, develop them and keep them. Develop them or trade them trade the choices. Before you even draft them or draft. Them and then trade. Them but you have possibilities, if you're a great team you got a team where free agents want to come and. Play for you to win, if you're in the middle you're not good, enough to attract free agents you're. Not shitty enough to draft you get stuck in the middle and you. Can't get, Out of it once again miami is that one team that has never. Really gone to the Bottom part of it is riley's Culture, THAT he's created that. YEAH i can play there, i want, to play there you know like it would have BEEN great to play with I Think, To, play with dwayne WADE alonzo, You, know what i mean okay and And to Be coached by pat and spulsher. And and and Those guys plus they got miami going for a lot of. Guys. Want TO go Down okay so i think cobe saw, the handwriting on. The. Floor on the wall okay and He's probably The last, great hall of fame player superstar player. That's played for One team yeah, could be steph could be. But but look At It So you got Magic, johnson kareem played for milwaukee but predominantly He's looked at as. A laker, worthy one team i mean, there's, Only a few guys okay and and now those, days are really coming gone, and and so you know. He, he threatened to leave okay he Was. GOING to go to chicago i Even got A call from mitch, cup jack and he Said. You GOTTA gotta, call kobe and i, SAID what do? You mean i GOTTA call, you gotta call i said why don't you call? Him the, Other general manager he goes you're the only. One He Will talk to and, Jerry. West Had already left Okay but jerry spoke to cobe and. Talked him out of leaving there was even some Discussion.

02:04:46
Speaker 1: ABOUT going to the clippers i heard they were going to build a Facility Out. By, His place, george county yeah.

02:04:54
Speaker 2: Jerry. Said you cannot go, there, You. Can't do that okay jerry. And, Eventually he did, it okay so you know he. Became loyal to the brand then of. Course there was his brand now you may, Or, may not know this hey we were one of the. Worst teams in the. League we could, not, Win, we knew it okay. Okay, that part you knew now what you might not have known was at the time the MOST valuable team In The Nba. Was, the, new york knicks okay WELL also because They Owned Msg. The, on, madison square Garden now okay but the. Lakers were the. Most profitable think about it we weren't going to make the playoffs and we were still the number one most. Profitable. Team in the league Okay so, in terms of, laker management like her ownership we're going. To ride this kid, out in terms of Him he's. Part of the laker brand he's created his own brand with his shoes and the drink and all the. Other things that he's doing and he's going to score as. Many points as he can and he knew that, he couldn't win a championship and when that, pressure was Off of him nothing made kobe happier than the. Actual WINNING of a championship but i don't think he was ever happier playing the game than the last. Few, years, of his career interesting okay, where he was HAVING fun, you know what i mean and he. COULD do, whatever he, Wanted i mean, You Know byron, got screwed barron scott okay, because, his deal was listen men because he can't he, can't GO back, In, time like i said so if you're a coach and, the losses are piling up guess what that goes on your record in the books somebody ever wants to. Look up your coaching record. There's no aster as well we were doing THIS because. You, know what, i, Mean no You, lost okay and so byron we need, you. To take the hit okay and then you know he's going to retire at, the end of his contract and then you're going to get the team, and, with all these assets okay that, we're going to you know play off of that and, climb back to the top and you're. Going to be the guy and Then what Happened. Was, and god blessed luke okay this Is. Not a shot At. Luke This is About Byron but Luke's At golden state, and steve, kerr gets this you know. The Cerebral spinal fluid, problem so luke is coaching and. He's coaching a great team, he does a great job and now he can become, a, head coach and say hey Let's. Let's give, It to Luke all right.

02:08:16
Speaker 1: And.

02:08:17
Speaker 2: So byron got screwed okay, he He might not say but. I'm, saying it, for him okay you, Know and as a result byron to this day has An. Excellent, relationship with the, Lakers okay but you know jimmy Was behind the scenes and, mitch WAS behind, the scenes, And i Think. You know god bless Mitch my Personal opinion about mitch and jimmy is they took too much criticism, when things didn't go right and they never got. Enough credit when things did because things. Did go right for them we won some championships with, those two, guys running it you know, with, POO and, you know so i mean there's a lot, that goes on BACK there. You know what i mean and, on the, face, of it, you know yeah you know, you got, to be lucky you know and sometimes the luck is your luck. Is, another team's. Bad, Luck absolutely you know Yeah i'm looking. At the lakers right now or they were playing great and now all of, a sudden, boom both guys both. Guys and significant time loss.

02:09:38
Speaker 1: BEFORE we get out of i Want to touch on, just kobe's mental, last thing tearing his achilles and he, toured it and you, know leading up to it he's playing an insane amount of minutes at last five games leading up and he's. PLAYING nearly forty six minutes, i know you're over. There probably biting your? Fingernails why it's? Going on he tears it did he tell? You, just tape it up yeah talk to us about that.

02:09:58
Speaker 2: Time.

02:09:58
Speaker 1: WHERE he tears. IT go i heard it i didn't know if it was. An urban legend or no.

02:10:05
Speaker 2: It was even a little bit. More more complex than so, so as, an athletic trainer you know somebody that does like the kinds. Of things that we do, if you see the, injury if you see it you pretty. Much have A clue anyway and so i saw and the way he kind of grabbed it. And that kind, of thing that's the, way yeah. In his Age you know and, so i'm, walking out there, you know trotting out there and pretty much think. He tall TAR his achilles and so I get, out there, and i go? You know what's going on he goes and he said the exact same. THING that they all say i thought somebody kicked me in. The BACK of my. Leg and i turned. Around there was nobody there if you, ever hear anybody, say that one hundred percent. They JUST ruptured their achilles, so, i said to him well It sounds. LIKE it's an achilles, tended i, didn't say rupture you know because there's, different COULD be, different degrees but i said It sounds like it's an, achilles, tend and, HE goes yeah he. Goes i, THINK it is he goes i reached back there and, Try, to pull it down.

02:11:14
Speaker 1: Oh, because, it went up well no.

02:11:16
Speaker 5: It doesn't work that, way might feel that way but that's, not, How like he said like, i've Never heard that before and I'VE had other players because i didn't even have players that, Have, torn both of them like you.

02:11:28
Speaker 2: Tore your right one once they, once they fix that one you're probably never. Going to tear that again that's going to be something better than. What, you were born with okay you end. Up tearing the other one. I've never heard, that, before, i'm like like like like. It, doesn't roll up there okay so my exact words. From doesn't, Work, THAT way he goes, yeah i. Didn't think so he says, Then he, SAID to me he goes i try to walk on MY heel to see if i could run on my. Heel and finish the game we were trying, to, get, in the playoffs right, dude you rupture, YOUR kid, you know what i go it. Doesn't work, That, WAY either, HE goes no i. Know i couldn't do it so he's trying, to run on. His heel you know what so so then then he that's, when, he says to me well can we just go back. Back in the locker room YOU tape it up and. I could finish the game you, WANTED to.

02:12:24
Speaker 1: Finish the game i said it, DOESN'T work.

02:12:26
Speaker 2: Like that either i said. But here's how. It works you were fouled it's two, free throws coming you already. You already tell your chillies it's like you're not gonna tear. It shooting a free. Throw you make it worse you're not going to tear the other. One Shooting a free throw so i'll let you shoot the free throws if you want, to shoot the free throws because, if you don't shoot them they're, going to, PICK the. Worst you know i said and then after, you shoot the free throws. This is the first time isn't the first time. Something like this has happened this. IS how you handle this i. Know from thirty plus years as soon as you, shoot the second, free throw make or miss. We're, gonna foul dead ball well this when we'll get. You out of, The game i'm telling you i'm, going To tell the official And. I'm. Going to tell Mark Okay, Jackson WAS coaching golden state. SO i Got. THE official, i, GOT mark i said listen i think, he ruptured his achilles tendon and let, him shoot the. Free throws make or miss, we're going to foul somebody and we get. Him out of the game. So, Everybody knows what's happening okay so this, cooperation with, the, other TEAM the officials right. What i didn't count on now all this takes place on the. Other End of the floor the warriors, en oft of the floor and so now we went from a twenty second time. Out. To A full timeout okay so byron's back there talking to, the, rest OF the team okay and i got to go there and tell him.

02:14:01
Speaker 1: What.

02:14:01
Speaker 2: We're going to do okay kobe walks all the way down to the other end because this we're right in front. Of the free throw lying you just have to stand there. And, wait there for us right he decides to walk all the way back to, our bench for what, reason on his own power, with a ruptured achilles okay and, then the time outs over and now he, walks, all the way back, okay which, he didn't have you know to do if he didn't go. There in the first place and so he, shoots the TWO free throws and now, I go back. Out there i meet, him he's walking towards me and so now we got to go all the way. Back to THE locker room and, SO i say to him, i can get your chair and he looks down, at me and he says, fuck, paulp that's for you okay because you remember in two thousand And eight. He, had the boo boo okay he got the boo boo and he took, them off on a wheelchair and then he came. Back, and, kicked our ass right. Okay, think of the mentality, okay you disrupture your achilles and you're sending a Message To who cares about. Paul. Pierce at this point right so now we get back to the locker room, and he's been pretty reserved and then everybody starts ducking because he's picking up gatorade bottles and he's flinging. Them all over the places there's modality's picking shut, up off of you know he's throwing things, everywhere and we're dodging, stuff and then you, know he finally calms down, and now we you know. What are the next steps and there's, some different philosophies about this but, his process of coming back he wanted it. To start the next morning so, he wanted to go home and he wanted to go into surgery first thing in. The morning the next day he didn't, want to think about it give it. A chance to calm down he wanted it. Done the very next day so by the, time we left the arena we were already scheduled for surgery The Next. Day, With doctor ella trash. Okay, so he, wasn't there okay you know we had to call, him, at, home and say hey listen you. Gott, an r available tomorrow now the other part of this story Is And this is When Black. Mamba turned into kobe, bryant, So he is pissed okay and now somebody comes in Our Security guide it was robert, Lower came in and say vanessa and the, girls are in the hallway so have you ever been? Back to, OUR training room back, there, i had a doorway yeah back door that came into my office, and then from the office you could go INTO the, You know what i mean so. People DIDN'T have, to, parade so i said okay close the training room door and bring the girls into my office, And then when, he's, Ready i'll bring this okay. And so They did that they put vanessa, and the GIRLS in, there, And then i said okay vanessa and the. Girls are in, My office when you're. Ready i'll bring them in and, then all of a sudden he Flicked The switch and the black mamba went. Into, wherever BLACK mamas go, yeah those i don't know THOSE snakes, go and they i mean they could go in a hole. In the ground or, something he went in There. And he turned into kobe and the girls came in and he didn't want them to see, what hell said he was and he, turned into the most. Wonderful, loving, husband and father.

02:18:30
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah which you, know and then, ONCE again like. YOU know, i was there, I mean like why Me like why?

02:18:41
Speaker 2: Why did, god choose me, YOU know for whatever reason i was. A part of all this i don't know what ELSE to SAY other than i hope. I, was worthy, OF it definitely you know i don't know.

02:18:56
Speaker 1: You that's not, for me his final game He, fights back to the achilles gets, himself back on the court and he, goes out only The way the only. Way kobe can go out what do you remember about that day and up to his speech where he dropped the. Mic, And, IT was over.

02:19:12
Speaker 2: Yeah well i mean he didn't say anything before the game that he, was going to do this and he didn't start out. Well, If you REMEMBER struggling yeah and so i think that it kind of took, a life. Of ITS own you know And i want to, say Spike Was was THERE and spike lee and i, remember like, when he was you know towards the end when he was going looked like he was. Going to go for sixty AND he, came over, and i said you know going out like this is ALMOST, better. Than being an mvp okay and he's looked, at me and, he. Said you GOT it okay and then i realized what, he was trying to do but that it Wasn't just going. To be kobe's last game It was going To be do you remember kobe's last game wasn't just going to be it was. The last game he played it was going to be they're going to be, talking about my last game not just. That was, THE last game you Know i put up, AS bob mcudo would, say i put, up numbers.

02:20:33
Speaker 1: And that happens and that simultaneously. In. Your, journey as well correct.

02:20:39
Speaker 2: Yeah we went out together, which was it wasn't planned but it just. Sort of happened that way and and but once because we knew he, was definitely going to retire and THEN once, he realized that i was then it could become sort, of a. Thing for us you, know and and You Know they, had a gary vedy night but it wasn't That night because, that was kobe's last game But it was against the boston celt, okay where they you know they gave me my retired jersey with like instead, of a number, on it, there was, like you, know the cross you, know like a medical cross and they gave me a ball and they did. The whole half court thing, it was really quite touching and and he was, He was besides my family kobe was especially wonderful. To me, on my night You know this, is r he kept, saying This is your night and i'm SO glad that they're doing i don't even maybe he even had, something TO do with it like i need to. DO something for. This guy i don't know but it wasn't. ALL funny, games with him i mean like like if you saw the wrath and if you were on, the other end of that.

02:22:10
Speaker 1: And he's hard headed too or he, was, hard, headed His tail.

02:22:13
Speaker 2: YES okay like i've been i was on. The, other end of that OKAY you were like.

02:22:23
Speaker 4: If i, didn't know you LOVED me, You KNOW what i mean like i, would think, You hated me you know but then you know it, was just, He got better WE see.

02:22:37
Speaker 1: And that's what, i mean at the end you got to see, him, go from a, kid yeah to a man like you got that you saw him, Grow up and, you said i'm not verbatim but you got to see him turn from. A, boy to a man.

02:22:49
Speaker 2: Yeah he are are our two THINGS at the end where i saw you grow up, and. You saw me old kay and then the part be to that Was that we believe that i'm the only person on the face of the earth that saw every single game, and practice for that matter.

02:23:15
Speaker 1: That he participated in special looking, back to close this out thirty two years what what WHAT comes to mind when? I, say thirty, two years, championships the, stories the good the bad just the journey overall that you're here to tell.

02:23:34
Speaker 2: HER what comes to mind i don't mean to, sound like a, broken record but you know the stars lined up for, me in many, many ways and YOU know the the what, i learned many many like. The book isn't about me the book IS about the lessons that i learned FROM the great. Champions that I work with, so WHOEVER i, am, today whatever i know okay is because of, that, thirty two year journey okay AND the great champions that I work with. And that i learned from and this is not, going TO come out right but i don't know. How, else to say it okay the two most influential Men In my life Were, Jerry, west and pat riley okay. And that includes my father and that doesn't mean my. Father was a bad father i'm not saying that he wasn't a. Debet dad, or ANYTHING like you know but i learned, so, much from those guys okay. And the other great Guys i've learned things from, kareem how he handled adversity you know how the true test of someone's character is, when, things are going bad no, and everything's going your way and then what do you do about that? When those things, go bad about taking, responsibility looking in the mirror. Taking, responsibility OF your, role so like i, said When We fell, apart the kobe shack thing yeah we. Could claim it on them what. About everybody taking some responsibility. Everybody participated, IN that schism you know i don't. Need anybody, ELSE taking responsibility you know. I WAS part of it if. I did the right thing I still don't know that i, could have saved the day but collectively we, might have. Been able to you know and, so so, that whole thing the championships, after the eighty five, Championship, WHICH was my first hey i, mean each ONE was special, but when i look back it wasn't, That other than that one other. Than the eighty five. One it wasn't the championships. It was everything in BETWEEN and the people, that i, did it with you know or, they did, it with me you know they, allowed, me INTO that space okay because, I never scored a point, i never got. A rebound never. GOTTEN assist i was there. I. Was part of it Okay so we Had the laker reunion in, maui a few years ago and if you were on on. One of the Show Time so, not the phil Jackson era. But, the pat riley era okay if you were, on a player a Coach Which there Was Only bill burker And dave waalt, and coach riley or me if you were one of those people that really whittles it down that you were Invited to one week in, maui with The whole, group with the laker reunion and we went, and had a shot around, a shoot around and practice And we dressed up like lakers, and like the old days and these guys are, limping around and you know and it was three square males a day and. IT was like real food i mean it was like. STEAK and lobster. Open bar i mean millions they spent a. Lot of, money, on this well yeah okay and they allowed me to. Be a part of it it wasn't just. The players and the, coaches it was the. Players the COACHES and me and now i don't, know if you know what We're doing it Again in september And the jamas and so, i'm. A part Of that okay and so i'll try to stop talking here because. It's it's not completely clear but when. You asked me that question. It's never really thought about it was. Being part. Of the FAMILY the. CAMARADERIE that's what i miss, i don't, MISS the games you know i don't miss a lot of people. Missed the competition, the games. That's. Extremely, Stressful that stuff, okay yeah AND you know, AND like i said, about i tell you what what what? Makes? You, Want to. Retire losing okay winning's fun. Everybody wants to, Do. That it's the losing okay so WHEN you hear players say i just want TO win one, and then. I can retire that's bullshit, because when You, win one you got yeah, now. You got the bug okay but when you're, losing year in and, year, that wears you down, okay. Because losing is miserable okay. And we hadn't won it we had to made the playoffs and for the last, four years of my career and it was going to be another four so it was going to. Be AN eight year drought and i could get out with my pension and be still part of. The team as, A consultant and you know? So what, was the journey the camaraderie, the family to this day especially the eighty five team, eighty five and eighty seven eighty Five. Because we. Beat the celtics Eighty seven we. Beat the, celtics, eighty six we lost okay but. We didn't lose To them we lost the rockets all right because we. Were to beat.

02:29:26
Speaker 1: Your, ass, It'll, NEVER die yeah well gie i want to just thank you first and foremost and let you know you were definitely worthy and. Chosen for the right reasons.

02:29:38
Speaker 2: Thank.

02:29:38
Speaker 1: YOU for SHARING your story i mean i felt like a little kid HEARING stories about the teams i grew UP loving and then, guys i played against. Them played with, and again like you said you were, there, For the entire time man so. THANK you for your time i know you guys are going to enjoy, this episode two part marathon but it's. Going, To BE, worth it man gary vd. Thank, you for your time, gee if you're.

02:30:00
Speaker 2: Having me.

02:30:01
Speaker 1: Love you man THANK you my regretting is i.

02:30:03
Speaker 2: Didn't, have You Long enough yeah.

02:30:05
Speaker 1: Once mike brown came out and it. Was, my time To. Go anyways that's around unplugged we'll. See you guys next week