50. Let’s talk about death ft. A Mortuary Technician

00:00:05
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they mean for our psychology. Hello, everybody, Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to another episode. This week, it's a fabulous, wonderful guest episode with a lovely human. I'm so glad to have her on board. Thank you. Oh my gosh, that's so sweet. Um. What's your name? Yeah, yeah, I'm Laura. Hi. Hi. Um, yeah, it's so fun to be here. Yeah, how really exciting Laura. Um, how do we know each other before we jump into we have a mutual friend? Um? Yeah? EJ Yeah, because she's on the podcast. J and Jah Yeah they were. Yeah they were last time. Yeah, we'll EJ and Jr. Are my roommates. Yes, we went out to dinner and then we got chatting and here I am. That's how it works. If you ever want to come on the podcast, I'm just gonna like vaguely approach you after that a weird Mexican dinner and be like, Hi, you should come on the podcast. That's basically what I did with you. Remember Instagram, dudes, because yeah, you said it like at dinner when I told you about what I was doing at UNI. Yeah, and then I was like, oh, I think she I think I might be on the podcast, and I was just kind of waiting to see if it actually if it actually happened. Yeah, and then you messaged me. I was like, so exciting, I've been terms. Yeah. I always think to my word, I feel like, once i've met someone, I'm like, I love this. I love your vibe. And it sounds like I'm like approaching you for like a thre vibe. That's really funny, but like I love their vibe. They have an interesting story of which you do, which you're going to get into very shortly. I'm like, here we go, yes, next step, So maybe that's worth talking about. Yeah, what I do? Why? Why why are you on the show today? What's what's what's special special about me? Um? Well, the thing you know that made you approach me was my unique degree. So I do a degree in forensic moutry. So I don't know if for people who don't really know what that means, UM, when someone dies, I will perform an autopsy and figure out how they died essentially. Yeah. Yeah, So I do a medical degree. Yeah, a medical degree. Yeah, that's a really great way to put it. Yeah, because it's Bachelor of Medical Science in brackets forensic moultry. That's my official title. That's okay. One thing that I've wanted to know is how many people are in your course because so I just quickly say this. The reason also I wanted to bring you on this because I'm trialing this new series called Unconventional where I get people such as yourself, who are doing career paths that I wouldn't say an alternative, like it is still a definite, established career path and something that's very necessary in society. Yes, something that I think most children aren't, like when I grow up, I want to be a mortician, Yeah, the same way that I want to be a ballerina or I want to be a doctor or Yeah. So I was like, this is such an interesting an interesting concept to me, and you're such an interesting person that you have decided to do this, and yeah, So how many other people would you say are in the same boat with you? Well, I'm pretty sure there's eighteen of us currently because I'm in my last semester at UNI. So yeah, in two weeks I'm that's it. I'm graduated. Yeah, very exciting, very nerve wracking, but exciting. But yeah, I think there's eighteen of us currently. But I don't think that everyone actually will go into the field of forensic Mountree technician. I think that a few people want to go on to do research and things like that. So it's very small compared to my other UNI classes because I have like a placement like unit and yeah, there's eighteen of us, eighteen people. Yeah, and what do you mean by research because you obviously want to be hands on. Yes, um, I think a lot of people just want to do it. Um. Maybe it's like a stepping stone into other kind of medical things. I'm not really sure. We have a lot of people from very diverse like areas. I know, like someone I used to do it with, UM wanted to be a teacher, was a teacher beforehand and has now transitioned. So there's a lot of different stories within how people end up there because it's definitely not and it's unconventional. Yeah exactly. I was going to say normal. I was like, no, unconventional, that's a very good word. I think it's totally normal. Do you think, yeah, what do you think of some of the common Sorry we're about to get into serious questions. Yeah, I just want like spitballing here, because yeah, this is so fascinating. But what do you think of some of the reasons people get into this field or why did you decide like this is what I want to do with my life right now? Yeah? Well, um, I've always been really into like science, and I really loved like biology that kind of thing at school. And I think I used to I always really fucked up my words, but yeah, always Really I used to want to be a vet because I really like animals. Obviously, you know that that's what I do, is my side hustle. At the moment, I was looking after dogs exactly. That's carrying me through UNI. But I really I ended up doing a volunteering work at a vet clinic when I was probably about fourteen, and I really liked, like watching the surgeries. I thought it was really interesting. The reason that I stopped doing that was because when people were crying about putting their dogs down, I just wanted to cry with them and it was so heartbreaking, and I was like, this is not very professional if I cry with every single person, So I switched. And then when I was sixteen, I was really obsessed with this show called Silent Witness on the BBC. I used to watch it every Friday with my mum. Yeah, what's it about. It's out a forensic anthologist. So yeah, so forensic moultary technician is what I will be after this, whereas forensic achologist is kind of like the higher the analogy that I made too earlier about the nurse versus the surgeon, Yeah, that's so. It was about the certain one, the forensic anthologist, and yeah, I just thought it was really interesting watching her dissect people essentially, And because I've always been interested in medicine, I just started googling how to become a forensic anthologist and then I found this degree and then since I was sixteen, I just kind of stuck with it. I just decided, Okay, that's what I'm going to do. Yeah, so I don't really I just kind of I just kind of stumbled into it, I guess, and I've just stuck with it. But I've really whilst because I've just finished my UM, because I'm in my last degree, my last degree in my last semester. I've just finished my clinical placement period. And the part that I actually found that I've really enjoyed about it was feeling like I was taking care of people when they couldn't anymore. Oh, that's such a beautiful way of putting it. Yeah, because there was a couple cases that were quite confronting, and or because obviously our job is to find cause of death, so you need to know their medical history, their personal history. We get a story that comes kind of with them from the police about what happened, that kind of thing, so that we and the apologist knows what to look for. Because the whole point is to be as noninvasive as possible, because you don't really want to be, you know, doing all these procedures to someone if you don't have to, if you could just do a scan, a CT scan and find a cause of death. But so some of the ones that were more challenging, it felt really nice to like after we'd done a procedure, especially sometimes we wash their hair. We like we wash the body down, you know, we make sure they're really clean, and we restore them, like part of the job is restoration. So it's it felt really nice to be able to wash their hair, brush their hair, and make sure they were like taken care of. And I felt even though it was a hard thing to do, it made me feel like I was helping them in a way when they couldn't help themselves anymore. Yeah. Yeah, so I think that's actually something that I didn't think about before I went on placement, but that that really it made me feel good, like I felt like I was doing something so like so worthwhile. Yeah, yeah, that is absolutely stunning. I like that is such not that there are any wrong answers. Yeah, what a beautiful answer. And do you think that that is like a common motivation like wanting to Obviously you came into this being like I'm just fascinated by this. I've had this um, you know, fictional hero who does this kind of work, and it's brought me into this kind of field. And but do you think now that you're kind of beginning to work in this profession on a professional level, like doing it as almost you're almost about to graduate and it's going to become your job. Yeah, what do you think some of those really important skills or traits are to have if you want to if you're considering pursuing this kind of job. Yeah, so everyone. Pretty much everyone that I like interacted with whilst I was on this placement period, they all we all had that same respect, like obviously, you know, it's not a normal thing, this job, Like it's not normal to deal with dead people every day, and it's very like confronting and mentally tiring. But I've never felt more supported in a work environment than when I was on that placement period because that I remember my lecturers have actually discussed this with us before, like when I started kind of this year, that it's so important to make those connections with your like like your peers and your co workers in the future because no one else will understand what you're going through than those people. And so it was like this beautiful community and everyone shares this respect for like how important what we're doing is, and that you know, person like whoever they are, someone loved them some they were someone's entire world, and it's so important that we find out what happened to them, to give that family closure, but to also respect them as a person and to make sure that they're taken care of. And I felt that with everyone that that's a shared kind of belief and like the motivation for it yeah, I think that answered your question. Honestly, it's really changing my perspective because I think when we think of people who deal with dead bodies, it can be really strange. Yeah. Would you find that's like a reaction a lot of people have. Yeah, I I the only kind of two reactions I get when people ask what I do, which comes up all the time. I feel like I talk about my degree all the time, because you know, you go to the hairdress and they ask you what you're up to, and I go, oh, I'm at UNI, and they go, oh, what do you do at UNI? And then I have to go I cut up dead people? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, like oh I stuff on the internet? Yeah, um yeah. I either get like, oh my god, wow, that's so cool. I love ncis like the amount of people that are like, oh I used to love criminal minds um and or I've had a couple of people who kind of go oh and they give me like this weird look, like oh okay, that makes and someone even told me once that oh that makes me feel a little uncomfortable and Okay, why someone has to do it? Yeah, exactly, And I think that, honestly, I was actually talking about this with one of my arm supervisors I had on placement that this I feel like a lot of it is because you know, like you watch movies and TV shows and that and a lot of the time like the morticians and that they're painted is like this kind of like creeps. Like I was gonna say that that's obviously I met you. I really like you, Like, yeah, I get along very well. You're a lovely human. Wish you see how lovely off the microphone? Thank you. But I think my perspective is like exactly that before I met you, as like these people are like strange ye like middle aged. Then you're all balled for some reason. Yeah, in my mind, I always think of this is going to be such a weird comparison. But if you've ever seen did you watch Riverdale? No I didn't. I did it, and you know what, I'm glad I did. Now. I like seeing it on TikTok all the time and I'm like, it's so bad, But I like. It came out in high school when I was like fifteen, so I was the target demographic. And there's my god, people think I'm so weird. But there's this guy on it who's the mortician. And he's like called doctor Kurtle or something, and he's the creepiest dude. They paid him as like this absolute creep and he's always just like he's like taking bribes and stuff and just being all like they always film him like he's just like eerie, and I hate it because then people watch that and then like, yeah, do you think that's some of the stigma that comes along with it. I think so, I'd like, yeah, like people who work with dead people, like people like funeral directors, that people always see them as like like what that it's weird. Yeah, it's because they're like, well, what's wrong with you? Why do you want to work with dead people? Yeah? Yeah, but but here we are, Yeah we are. Yeah. But I do think that that definitely is something that the more that I get into it, the more I'm like, oh, I wish that that wasn't a thing, because it is like everyone there like just wants to take care of the people and like it, like you said, like it's someone has to do this job. Yeah, And I like, personally, I find it very interesting because I like the science of it, Like I I have such a passion for like anatomy of the human body, because I think it's so interesting the way that we like like born and then keep living and just the way that our bodies keep us alive all the time, like your organ systems and that. I just think it's so interesting. Yeah, and that's what I love about it. But then it's also the added bit of like being able to take care of those people. Yeah, you know, that's kind of my thing about it. And you would say that's like the best part of your job. Yeah, yeah, I would think so. Yeah, And I think as well because like I was only on placement for two weeks, but I felt like everyone was so friendly and close to each other, because it is an experience that only a very few amount of people are going to understand. Yeah, because especially the field is really small as well, and you know, it's not something that most people can relate to. So it felt it was like a real kind of community, nice environment, and that was really nice as well. Yeah, because I can imagine, and please correct me if I'm wrong, like the levels of burnout would be pretty high. Yeah, I think we do get there is a quite high dropout rate in this degree as well. I think just because obviously some people really don't it's not for them. It's not definitely not for everyone this kind of job, but yeah, there's definitely obviously some people dying in incredibly traumatic ways, and or even if they're not traumatic, if it's mirrors something that's happened in your life, it can be quite like triggering. So yeah, there is definitely times where people who work in that field are going to freak out and not be able to cope with it. But like, I think that's why that community is so important. Yeah, and that kind of leads to my second question. Second question, next question. I feel like we've already touched on many things. I know I've already asked you so many questions. But what do you think is the hardest part of this? But other than you know, the stigmament you said being triggered, Yeah, like your own experiences, which is unavoidable I think in many professions. Yeah, but what is really what he thinks the hardest partum it sounds I don't think that for me, the mental toll is the hardest part. I think mine is like the physical nature is that it's quite it's it's a very physically intensive job and you're on your feet all day. I think that's I know that's quite a boring answer, but but it's. Yeah, it's just quite physically intensive. And that's actually I was thinking about this the other day that along with the stigma thing, it's like it is a hard job obviously, both emotionally, but also physically as well. It's very like labor intensive. You're on your feet all the time. You know, people are heavy, you have to lift things, you know, like because you know, moving bodies around, that kind of thing, Like it's they're heavy. Yeah, and so people, you know, it's it's hard, both emotionally and physically. And so if people didn't like what am I trying to say here, that if people weren't so passionate about it, they wouldn't do it. It's not just a job that you fall into because it's easy. It's you need to be passionate to want to do that job. You need to care about going to work every day. Yeah that you know, that's the important you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely, And I feel like that is the same with a lot of jobs, but particularly in your profession. I think most of us don't like to think about death, yeah, which is a very very human animal reaction, Like even before we were recording this episode, we were having this massive chat about loss and grief and death and how difficult that is. And do you think that in that in any way that working so close to those who are no longer alive has impacted you when it comes to other things that have happened in your life. I think that, Yeah, it definitely, like I was telling you before this when we were talking about our loss and everything, that yeah, I have. I've personally lost a few people in my life, and it actually it kind of motivated me to push harder in this degree because I think especially during COVID, you know, everyone at UNI with I think was struggling with everything being online, but I really was d of struggling to feel motivated to do it. But I think having those my personal experiences, it made me want to help the families of these people more because I've been on the side of that. You know, I know how traumatic it is when you lose someone so like especially unexpectedly, So I think that kind of fueled me to want to do it more because that means that now I can be a part of finding out what happened to their loved one and being able to tell them like what actually happened and yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I think it. It kind of the being around the dead people all the time. I think it actually in a way, it has made me like more compassionate and more like just more aware because obviously, you know, I am, like you're around death or day and it makes you really apprec It kind of just made me really appreciate like being alive and yeah, and just being more gentle around people as well, because I have no idea you know, who they've lost or or even like sometimes now I see because I've seen so many different people come through that I sometimes see people on the street and I'm like, oh wow, like they remind me of this person, and like it makes me want to be nicer because when we get these people and we see like their life story, and it just makes me be like, I have no idea what's going on with anyone else, because that's this sad life that someone has lived and now I get to take care of them. But like when I'm out around living people, it just makes me feel so much more compassion because I really have no idea what they could be going through kind of thing. Yeah, it feels like it's given like you're able to give a gift to others in terms of closure. Yeah, exactly, which is honestly like one of the best things. Yeah, you can hope for if you've lost someone unexpectedly exactly or in really tragic circumstances. Yeah, it's just being given a gift of closure. But it's also given you, like a much stronger a gift of empathy. Yeah. And I would say you're already an incredibly passionate person, So thank you. But is it um, I just want to touch on that part that just one thing that you said to me that I was like, wow, that's really interesting when you see people on the street, Yeah, who look like people that you've seen it at their like most vulnerable end of life state. It is it strange like or is it more or is it just that singular reaction of like because I because you, I can relate to it, because you rehind me of someone I want to treat you better. It can it be like kind of an emotional reaction? Yeah? Sometimes I think it definitely can be, especially if someone looks quite similar. And obviously I was on the un placement for two weeks, so I feel like when you work there, obviously you're more going to happen, but sometimes reading people's stories, Yeah, like you might feel more connected with someone because you look at their story and you're like, oh wow, Like that's similar to me. And I think then if you saw someone who looked like them in public, then that would be more of an emotional thing. But I also think that, um, a lot of it is like you get quite desensitized too that because you kind of have to, because if you go in and you're like so sad about death every day, you're not going to be able to do the job. Yeah, and like and like ultimately like I'm you know, I'm there to do this job as best I can and make sure that these people are looked after, So I kind of you kind of need to leave that, um and yeah, and yeah, there's a you really have to be quite mentally strong to be able to separate your work from your home life and not take work home with you. But yeah, I definitely like sometimes I yeah, you would see people and I'm like, wow, yeah, you look just like this personal. Yeah, what cases do you think are the hardest. Do you think it's people who were our age who are young or Yeah, I don't. Um, yeah, obviously, yeah, children is always a hard one. Yeah, um, but I find more the stories, yeah are the harder ones. Um, when it's you read one that someone had no family or something or that they were alone, Like that is a hard one, um more than like yeah, like it's it's very like determined on like the case. Yeah, but there's yeah, it's definitely yeah, children, children is a hard one. I even find sometimes just um, like elderly people because obviously we live in an aging yeah, like aging population. But yeah, it is, it is. There's Yeah, it makes you realize there's a lot of old people that, um, especially like die alone, which is very I find that sad. Yeah. Yeah, that's one of my biggest fears. Yeah, I honestly because like this is a kind of a tandard. But sometimes I'm like, oh, I want to like, um, you know, be alone forever and like just marry and be single and just like live a great life, a childless life, Like yeah, I just get a travel and then I'm like the flip side of that is like what if I end up dead and no one finds me? Yeah? Weeks Yeah, yeah, those are always because you do read about stories like that where like neighbors called because of you know, as flies on the windows there's a smell and that Yeah, which is so? Which is which is sad? Sad? It's like the other one. I read this really sad story today about this guy who was found in Wa kind of related, not really, but um Wa for those American listeners is a state in Australia and they he was what's it called not a motorbike rider mountain bike round and he had been missing for like ten days or something, and no one knew who he no one who noticed that he was missing, and he got into like a really bad accident while he was mountain bike riding and some woman with her dog like found him. Yeah, And I was like, that is really really sad that there is no one to notice the absence exactly. Yeah, like, no one to notice your absence because your presence, yeah exactly. Wasn't that felt? And I'm sure his press was felt in ways that yeah, we might not even know, yeah, but I can definitely say why that would be very very difficult. Yeah, yeah, definitely. There's been ones whilst I was on a two week placement that we would read and it's like because that you tend to chat about them a lot as well, because, like I said, like that community, no one else understands what you're going through, so we tend to there's a lot of talk about like, oh, well, that's sad, and we all read the story and we that's really nice. Yeah, there's a lot of conversation about it. And yeah, I remember there was one um where we will so sad because yeah, no one, no family, like they'd been left for a while, and then that's it is. It's hard because it's like that's it's that's sad that there was no one, yeah, to realize that you were missing, or no one checking up on you. Yeah. Yeah, And do you feel like I feel like that would almost make what you were saying better, whereabout you're able to give them that like exactly, Yeah, my god, I can hear the noise that because that something's hard. Sorry if you guys can hear that. But but someone's having a little party in the street, go off, we're wrong about death. They're living life. Duality of man. Duality of man. Okay, So we had a little bit of a distraction because there were people walking up and down the street having an amazing time but I guess that actually really links to what I want to talk about next. And we have kind of touched on this before, But how do you think this work has changed your perceptions around death and what a good death is? Yeah? Um, I obviously I think that a lot of people would think that there's probably no good way to die, because obviously it's a it's not a good thing. But I think it has just made me appreciate being like alive more. I think I said that before, but um, yeah, I don't know. It's it's hard to like say what a good death is because like you can never really that's it's the one thing that you can't really control. I mean actually likes some people in terms of yes, like with suicides and that, But yeah, I don't. I don't think there's really a good time ever to die. But I like what we were talking about before of not being alone, like I would just not That's what I wouldn't like. I wouldn't enjoy being left, if that makes sense. But then again, that's why I think I feel like this job is really important, is that then we can help. Yeah, you know, do you find that this job makes you think more about death? Um? I do think actually, yeah, because I think then in terms of however that person has died, whether it be you know, an accident or a medical thing. I was saying to you before, I've never felt like I wanted to be healthier in my life because obviously, you know, obesity and that is a big problem within modern like the modern world. And wow, I have never wanted Yeah, well, because even if someone looks relatively healthy on the outside, sometimes I don't know if you've ever heard of the phrase, like I think someone said it when I was in high school, but like skinny fat where it's like skinny on the outside but fat on the inside. What does that mean? So like when you have like not sometimes a poor diet, but like your organs can develop. This is just like a medical lesson. Yeah, they develop, You develop more fat around your organs. So even if you look relatively healthy in quotations on the outside, your organs can be quite unhealthy. Yea, and yeah, and so sometimes now I think I'm like, wow, they when someone I know is quite thin, or like you see someone who's quite thin but maybe they don't eat well, I'm like they could still be really unhealthy, really unhealthy on the inside, and it's yeah, because I don't think about that with myself a lot. Like I think that I you know, I would I relatively healthy and you know, I like I do my exercise, but like, wow, maybe my organs don't look great. That's so weird because you would see them, you would see like what it looks like. Well, and that's the other thing as well, with like I was talking about this with the other people, I want on placement with that now. Sometimes I see people and I'm like, I bet I know what your organs look like. Really, yeah, because hopefully my organs are I'm not. I'm sure your organs would beautiful. Thank you so much. You I exercise, I promise, Yeah, I had some strawberries for lunch. Yes. What's the weirdest organ do you think? Like that you when you're doing your examinations, is the one that you're like, oh, yeah, I can't wait to get to the brain, or like oh dang, I'm going to remove the pancreas, or like look at the pancreas or um. I don't think there's one that I like, well, they get excited. I do like to look at people's hearts because of your heart, I think heart health tells you a lot about overall health because obviously it's a very important organ. Um. So I do think it's really interesting to see people's hearts because even some people who are quite small, Ye, your heart weight is supposed to be like roughly, I can't remember the percentage, but it's supposed to be a person like a specific percentage of your overall body weight to be healthy. And some people's hearts are just absolutely massive and I wouldn't even think to control that or like that. Health. Yeah, heart health is about um not like sometimes diet, but mostly exercise, because your heart is a muscle. So the more that you work that muscle, yeah, the bigger bigger. Yet, yeah, because I think it's I'm not, I'm not the best at it, but so well, like I know that your diet can affect like your heart and that kind of thing. I'm I haven't done my medical degree yet. I'm not I'm not a doctor yet, but yeah, yeah, but you know more than most of us. But yeah, so, like it's kind of crazy seeing some people. If you who on the outside, you wouldn't think that their organs with that unhealthy, but then you open them up and oh, my god, wow, look look how big that organ is, or look how big their liveries. Look how big their heart is. So I do enjoy the heart to see that, because that's quite indicative. But I do always just as well when you first see the organs. It's always very interesting because sometimes it's not what you're expected to see at all. It's just like, whoa, they looked quite healthy. This is not what I expected, So that's quite interesting. But obviously the grossest part is the bowels because oh my god, yuck. Wait, explain is that? Tm I? But can you explain that more? Like I thought, maybe this is my like plep knowledge. When people die, like all the in like unprocessed food just gets exerted. Yeah. No, um, sometimes sometimes people do, like I guess, like pee themselves put themselves when they die because of that release of muscles. But a lot of times you still get it quite like because obviously your intestines is quite a long pathway. So if it's like somewhere in there that's not close to the end, we just have to like scoop it out. Well. Yeah, you try to kind of keep the bowel intact because it doesn't smell very nice. Because it's a bowl, but sometimes it bursts or it will come out, and yeah, you just kind of you wear a hell of a lot of ppe like yeah, yeah, personal protective equipment there. I wear like seven layers whilst you're I don't even think three pairs of gloves, like you're really kitted up, because it's and that's just to protect us, because if you know, we get everyone from all walks of life. They could have anything like I don't want to I want to protect myself if they have a disease, or just like you just don't really want to get someone else's fluid on you because that's just not pleasant. Um. Yeah, so you just kind of you just deal with it. You It's very much like if anyone's a nurse, they would totally get a Nurses get very desensitized to poop because that's just part of the job. And it's same with this. You just you get used to it. That's crazy, because that's a whole different world to the work I do. Yeah, someone was pooping on my table all the time. I'd be like, what the fuck, why is my office friend sitting everywhere? Like what? Okay, this kind of is kind of off topic, but I just want to ask really quick, what's like the biggest if you told someone about your job, Like, what do you think is a fact or something that would surprise someone the most about your job? Um? I think the one that I think shocks people is the amount of people that we get in every day, the amount of admissions we have every day. Because obviously everyone knows that people die all the time, but even me, when I first started my first day of placement, I was like, WHOA, that's a lot of people. M yeah, because you get you get like I mean, there's not a set number obviously because it's not an exact science, but yeah, like it's it's a it's a lot um and you just don't really think about how many people are dying all the time. And so I think that's I remember telling my mom about it and she would ask like, oh, how many people do have it in today? And I'd be like, oh, like nine and she was like, whoa nine overnight? I was like, yeah, that nine people? Yeah, and how what's the average for it? Would you have like an average on a weekly basis, but you obviously don't serve the entire no. Yeah, so there's because there's three facilities. Does everyone who die have to go through No, there's a there's a set of legislation. Um, that's the Coroner's Act of two thousand and nine. I'm pretty sure it is, like, God, she's done last exam, my lecture is listening to this and I got that wrong. Please don't yell at me. I'm pretty sure it was Coroner's Active thousand and nine. Um. But yeah, there's a list of like reasons why someone would be admitted. So, yeah, because normally someone dies and then if it was essentially if it was not I if it wasn't expected for that person, if they weren't supposed to die, or if they were going in for a routine operation and then died that they shouldn't that shouldn't have been the outcome. That they'll get sent to us. If they're in hospital, or if they're in a government facility of any kind like hospitals, if they're in custody, if they're in mental institutions like anything like that, if they under the care of any government agency, then they get sent to us, even if they know of what happened. Yeah. Interesting, Yeah, because I thought you were about to say the opposite, and I was like, I'm sorry, if someone died in custody, I feel like I would want exmination. Yeah, what happened there? No, no, yeah, yeah, they all get sent um. Yeah. And it's so it's only really like if because normally someone dies, they'll call up the police, will call up their doctor and be like, will you sign off on this death certificate? You know, do you think that they do? You think that they this was what you expected for them? And a lot of the time doctors will just say yeah, if they've had you know, if they've had terminal cancer for four years or something, they're going to be like, yeah, I'll sign off on that that was expected. Or if they're ninety five and they've got this host of health problems, yeah, yeah, I'll sign off on that. But I'm pretty sure the doctors can also part of the currents actors. If you don't report, because they're called like reportable deaths, that's what the legislation is under, and if you don't report that as a doctor, you can get in quite significant trouble. So a lot of time we do get bodies in where you'll look at the history and they've got this massive long health history and they've been in hospital for two years or something, and you're like, why are they here because I just progresses the progress for the family, Like that body, you've just been sent straight to the funeral home. They could have their funeral. Yeah, but it's a bit unnecessary, like unnecessary grief exactly. But they tend to err on the side of caution just because they don't want to lose their medical license. But yeah, yeah, so yeah, there's definitely something you get in that don't need to be there. But not not every single person who dies will be sent us. Okay, that is really surprising. Yeah, there we go. We're learning more and we've talked about how it's changed your perspectives on death. But something you said to me that really stuck with me when we were chatting before we started recording. Yes you could die tomorrow. Yeah, m So, how has it impacted like how you live your life now? Obviously you want to be healthier, a lot more present at more present to every moment and being like, oh wow, life is really amazing. Yeah, but is there anything else that it's really impacted on for you? Um, I think it's it's yeah, it's a hard question because I think I've already already as a person with my own experience, as I've been very much like not taking life for granted, Like I'm very much like a live in the moment kind of person. But yeah, I do think it, Yeah, I really, I just think that it just makes me appreciate life more. I'm not sure if there's really anything else that it's affected in me as a person besides like the compassion, like just more that kind of thing. Yeah, but maybe that's something you'll see, is you get more into it, Yeah, exactly. Yeah, Like I like, I've only had this very limited kind of experience because obviously, like I've done I've done a three year Unied degree, um so I've like known what it was about. But obviously actually experiencing that every day for two weeks is yeah a lot more. Yeah, But yeah, I don't. I don't. It's hard to think of anything off the top of head. I think I might just it might be something that comes more with time. And is it a job that you see yourself doing for the rest of your life. We talked about this before. Yeah, let's examine that a bit more. Um I it is incredibly like exhausting both mentally and I mean, I find it more physically is at that mentally, but um, I've been told by my lectures before that I am just a little bit strange in that. Um, nothing really grosses me out. Really, Like even when I was on placement, there was some cases where the experience technicians were like, that's gross and I was like, it doesn't really bother me. Um, But definitely like the physical exhaustion and because that, you know, it makes me have this more appreciation for life. It's like, do I want to be spending my life working all the time because it's very because it's very it's long hours, because you know, people are dying all the time, and there's never any there's there's never any stop to that. There's always going to be people dying. And so if you you know, we have the weekend off and then you come back on Monday, and it's just massive, yeah, you know, and I think that's I don't know if I could see myself doing it for the rest of my life. Like I love it, I really really enjoy it. But then again, and it's very much like, um, a job where it's like that's the job. There's not really much more that you can't really progress up in the fields unless you do like further study, so like once you start, like that's that. Yeah, you know, it's like a typical job where it's like maybe not a typical job, but like some jobs where you can prepos think about a lot of our friends work corporate jobs. Yea for the public service, and there's very clear from martial pathways and like areas to excel and I have more responsibility. But I guess when you have all the responsibility you need when you're like when you're starting, yeah exactly, Like yeah, it's like, well, what I start working, I'll be twenty two and then why I'm going to do that until I'm like sixty. Yeah, like that's along. So I don't I don't know really if I'll do it for it, but I like, I do enjoy it, and I definitely want to pursue it more, and I do I like the medical field. I think I don't think that I would, Oh, I don't. I don't want to say that I wouldn't do anything outside of the medical field because I do enjoy my animals side thing, yeah exactly, And I would never want to like fully be like, yeah, I won't do anything else but I do definitely I see myself working in it, and I think the placement definitely made me more confident in that because, like the super my supervisor was so supportive and they really helped me just feel more confident in myself and that little self doubt that I had that maybe I wasn't like skilled enough to do this job or it just wasn't for me like that, they really helped to reassure that. And so I definitely see myself like working there for at least some period of my life. Yeah. Yeah, that's good to hear. Yeah. So one of the last couple of questions I really want to ask you is we've talked about how it can be rough, how it can be physically and mentally training, but there's obviously a lot of rewards. What kind of what do you do to unwine you know, obviously seeing dead bodies all the time and being exposed to death can be quite overwhelming. Like what kind of supports you in your personal life to be able to do that day and day out when you begin working. I have a really kind of strong network of well, like I have a small amount of very close people in my life. Yeah, like my my roommates and my mom and my partner like all, like I can talk to them about that and if I, yeah, I tell them about what I've what I've been through, and like, obviously I can't tell them a lot of specifics for legal reasons because of confidentiality in that, but it's good to be able to tell them at least if I've had a month day and those and those people are very important to my life and that if I tell them that I've had a bad day, they will be there for me. Yeah, And I also have quite a strong like rewind kind of I've really enjoy me time. I'm a very me time person at the end of the day. And I was telling you before, you know, I do my yoga. I have like a pretty strong when I'm in a routine. I have a pretty strong like exercise kind of routine, like I keep myself like and the yoga for me is really nice. Like I put on my meditation music and I just kind of step out of my head for a sec. And I think that's really important for me to unwind. Yeah, I think that's kind of the main thing. So like the yeah, the connections that I have with my friends and family. Yeah, and so yeah, exactly which I think is in anything is really important. But again that community actually in the workplace and being able to talk to everyone. And actually whilst at UNI, I've it's been really like drawled into us, like to make sure you're okay. We had a whole lecture series one time about your mental health and making sure you're okay, And we have to do these reflections as assignments, which is essentially just how do I feel. Yeah, our lecture is being like are you okay? Because even when I wrote a reflection earlier this year, I talked about some of my personal experiences and how that was making me nervous to go on placement and continue in this career. But and then my lecture actually reached out to me and was like, please come and talk to me about this, and then we arranged have this like one on one meeting and we like we talked it out with her and she was really lovely about it. So it's it's been really good support from the Union. But then again in my personal life, but I think that's because I spend a lot of time like explaining to my family and friends, like what exactly I'm doing kind of things so they understand it on a deeper level. Like my partner knows everything about anatomy, like go off, he watches all my life stuff. Yeah yeah, so yeah that's really good. And I think final question, you know, the whole kind of theme of this is like this is unconventional. Yes, right, yes, you're doing something that is so important to society I think is really overlooked. Yeah, like when it gets down to it, like I think that was half my surprise when you told me, like I'm you know, I'm a mortician and all, yeah, what is the forensic technician? Forensic moutary technician. And I guess if there's someone listening, maybe they found this episode because like I actually want to do this. Yeah, maybe they watched the same BBC series as Yeah. Interesting. What would be like your one piece of advice? Um, I definitely think to expose yourself because on YouTube actually because it's educational, there is numerous videos of autopsies. What. Yeah, that's how I started watching them in high school, Like I had a favorite autopsy in high school because you can, like you can. It's the same way that if you've ever seen like berthing videos are on YouTube. Yeah, yeah, because it's educational, so it's not it's not it's not gory. Yeah, well, I mean it exactly, it's like a medical procedure. Yeah. Um, So definitely expose yourself to those things because the times that I was feeling doubts was during lockdown, when I couldn't have any of my classes online and I wasn't going into my like anatomy labs where we had you know, the Audebaric specimens and that kind of thing, and that was when I was like, do I really want to be doing this? And it wasn't until then I was more in person again and started actually being exposed to like the bodies that I like, really reignited my passion because I love, like, I'm very interested in the anatomy and like the science of it all. So I would definitely say that, but um, also just making sure that like it's not going to be too much yeah for you, because that's like I said earlier that there's quite a high dropout, right I think in this degree. Um, but you're like, again, you're never going to know until you try, and if you do have an interest, then that's good. But saying that, I think that my degree is being canceled by my UNI because they don't think there's enough. How are you going to do How are they going to do it? Then? I think I think one of my lecturers wants to make it a master's program and a different UNI or something like there will be a pathway. But it's yeah, it's it's it's a very small field. It's definitely something that's hard to get into. I would say it's not well, first, it's not for everyone, but it's also yeah, it's very small, everyone knows everyone kind of thing. Um, So yeah, I think through your choices. Yeah and yeah, and I think in the future it might be a bit harder. Like I'm very privileged that I had the chance to do this degree because it's only been running since twenty nineteen, I think, so, yeah, very it hasn't very amazing. Yeah, so, but I think I believe they will do it. I know they do it in other states. It's just me talking New South Wales in general. Yeah. Yeah, for the Australian Yeah, for the Australian audience. This is not for an international because well the job is quite different in other countries anyway. Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, so it very much varies across the world, but yeah, I think that's kind of Yeah, if you if you really do have a passion for it, it's definitely worth it because it's a it's an experience. Yeah, because even the people I went on placement with, like I said, a lot of them might not even go and end up into this field, but they still went through the placement because what an experience. Yeah, you know, it's not something that everyone else's yeah, like ninety nine point, they never know what it feels like. Yeah, exactly. Well, Yeah, thank you so much for coming home and thank you for having me. It's been fun. Yeah, did you enjoy it? Yeah? Yeah, did we all learn something? Hopefully? Oh my gosh, hopefully. I think we probably do. I definitely learned something. This is such a fascinating episode, And thank you for just sharing your learnings and your experience. Thank you. And to be honest, it makes me feel a lot better about dying that somebody's going to wash my hair for me exactly when I'm dead. We all we do really care. Yeah, Yeah, it's honestly really sweet. Like I know that sounds strange to say, Maybe I don't think it's strange, but like, for other people in stinging, Like what this sounds sweet, but it makes me feel really nice that like there is this sense of respect for people after they go, and that there's people like you who are passionate about that and willing to do that work. So exactly. Any final comments before we wrap up this lovely episode. Oh my gosh, not really, but just thank you for having me. It's really nice. Yeah. Yeah, I really hope that people you know, learn something or at least found it interesting. Yeah I did. Yeah, Well, thank you so much for listening. As always, thank you to Laura, And if you feel compelled and you really enjoyed this episode, share it wherever you feel and leave a five star review on either Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're getting your podcasts, and remember to subscribe. Thank you so much