Dr. Blythe Corbett: Pioneering Autism Communication through Theater and Fostering Inclusive Expression

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for autism around the world.
Hi, I'm Tony Mantor.
Welcome to Why Not Me the World. Joining us today
is doctor blythe Corbett. She is a professor in the
Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Vanderbilt University Medical Center.
She's here to discuss since Theater, a peer mediated theater
based intervention that has contributed to significant improvements in social
functioning in individuals with autism. It's a pleasure to have
her here, so thanks for joining us.
I'm really excited to be here.
Oh it's my pleasure.
So tell us a little bit about yourself and what
you're doing for the autistic community.
So it's wonderful to be here. So I am a
professor at Vannabet University Medical Center in the Department of
Psychiatry and behavior of Science, Sales. I have had the
privilege working with children and adults with autism for nearly
thirty years, and I work with them and my life
is enriched by them in many ways. So I am
a clinician, specifically a pediatric neuropsychologist. I'm also researchers, so
I have several scientific endeavors. And then I also ran
a nonprofit. I started a theater program for individuals with
autism spectrum disorder. And I think that's especially what we
probably want to talk about today. It's called Sense Theater.
What led you to start the theater?
Tony? Similar to you, I have an interesting background as
a performer.
Oh that's great, I love it.
I'm a writer and an actor. That was my background.
I recognized early on, as many people do in the field,
that our own sense of confidence and social communication can
really be enhanced through the performing arts, including acting. Certainly,
my life was changed, notably by being an actor. And
so years later, when I went to college, which I
went quite late in life compared to many people, I
started working with some children with autism. I was intrigued
by them. I was drawn to working with them, and
I thought in the back of my mind someday, you know,
utilizing theater might be an impactful way to enhance or
bring out the social communication and the voices individuals with autism.
And so that's how the idea emerged.
That's great. So when did it start?
It was in two thousand and nine that I first
started Sence Theater. I originally wrote a couple of grants,
none of them were funded, and so I started a nonprofit.
We were able to throw a music benefit, which you'll appreciate,
raised just enough money to pay for the research. Everybody
worked for free, but we ended out the number of
different measures that we were really impacting some of the
core attributes characteristics of autism by utilizing this approach.
Nice.
When you started it, you had this vision of what
it could be. Yes, has it evolved to be bigger
than you thought it would be? And if it has,
how did that happen?
It has definitely emerged as something significantly larger than what
I thought it would be. Like I said, started out
as a nonprofit. I was at University of California, Davis.
When I came to Vanderbilt, it was really embraced and
they really wanted me to continue to include since theater
as part of my own program, which I had always
wanted to do anyway, even though I established it else where,
I was given the opportunity to continue to expand it here.
I also, through the extremely generous support of the National
Institute of Mental Health, I've been able to receive three
grants fund them to include an initial randomized clinical trial
pilot project, then a multi site randomized clinical trial, and
then another clinical trial for adults. So the program has
expanded exponentially in terms of research. In the process, we've
learned a lot about what does change and response to
this mediated theater based approach, some things that don't, but
we just continue to better understand it. And at this
point we've literally given it the program to hundreds of
views with autism spectrum disorder, and we've also done it
at other sites.
When you start something out, you always have what I
like to call little bumps in the road.
So to speak.
Sure, some things just do not go as first planned.
What were some of the first struggles that hit you?
Then once you go out past those first struggles, what
happened then to help it evolve to what it is today.
I would say, right from the very beginning, I think
people did not take it seriously that theater might be
an actual form of intervention or a way in which
to really impact the lives of people with autism spectrum
disorders and be actually a platform for their own voices.
Once I got past that in trying to convince people
that this wasn't simply a recreational activity for them, and
I was able to show the science and the fundamental
principles why there might be change, then people started every
embracing it. For example, we know in psychology that peers
can really make a significant impact for many of us.
It's called peer mediation, and so I thought, if we
really want individuals with autism to be to better engage
with their peers, and then we should include peers in
the intervention. This has been down in other contexts, but
I made it front and center for a sens theater.
So we train what we would characterize as typically developing peers.
They could be undergraduate students, they could be high school students,
but they have good social communication skills. Some of them
do have a theater background, but they're paired one on
one whether participant who has autism in the program. So
that's what key component. Another key component is actually utilizing
theater and looking at it as a form of intervention.
For example, improvisation allows us to think more flexibly. We
know that individuals with autism have sometimes difficulty thinking more
flexibility and tend to be a little bit more concrete.
So that's an example of a way that we can
embrace something that we think of as part above recreational
artistic activity and utilize it as a part of an intervention.
So that's just one example. It was convincing others in
the way in which we presented it that this could
be a way to impact individuals' lives and not just
provide fun activity for them.
Autistic people tend to be very focused.
You brought up the fact that sometimes the improv could
be of an issue. Have you had any challenges with
them doing improv because sometimes that can take them outside
of their comfort zone? So have you had any issues
with the improv side of it because of that?
So well, improvisation, I want to highlight, is just one
technique that we use. But to answer your question, an
interesting thing happens when you are trying something and maybe
you're uncomfortable and everyone around you is also going through
the same experience. And their reaction is they're laughing, they're
being silly, they're making mistakes, and it becomes that nobody cares.
I just forgot my life or I just made up
something new, and everybody's laughing and supporting to me. And
this is interesting to quote not do it right and
have people reinforce that. I think that's part of it
is again this collective sense of social reinforcement and realizing
that there isn't just one way to do something. After
a while, that process sometimes can be infectious.
Absolutely, what style of theater are you doing? I mean,
there's just so many variables that can be done.
Absolutely, and thank you for asking. So we do work
with a script and I'll tell you a little bit
more about that in a minute. But I used to
work with published scripts that people are quite familiar with,
but I went back to my roots. We did this
for a number of reasons. One, yes, I'd meant it's
really fun but for me. But in addition to that,
we can choose the topics. We can be flexible in
terms of you know, with our actors with and without autism,
they might come up with really great ideas. Guess what
they're now part of the play. They might have talents
that they might be musicians, and all of a sudden,
we might have a gorilla who have us play the violin?
Why not? And so being again being flexible in the
way that we also present the stories can be meaningful.
So we do have a script. We also include music,
and typically we have about three songs throughout the forty
five to sixty minute play. I say it's played with
music because we don't provide as much music as you
would normally see in that full on musical music is
you had another aspect of the program that I don't
need to tell you, Tony, but it really brings out
a lot of really meaningful, powerful emotions in people. It's engaging,
so it can often help people to watch if participate,
and obviously it can be an enhanced and thrilling experience
for the audience as well. They also end up participating
to a little bit more I think in the program
because of that element of music. So we have the script,
we have some music, we have some improv But I
think one of the other most critics characteristics of the
program is everyone is cast in the show. Everyone has
a character that they need to develop, and so that
also builds perspective taking also better understanding the self, making
decisions about how we're going to walk and talk and
engage with others. What is my relationship with this character
versus another? These are wonderful ways to practice and learn
about sumptional skills without being so obvious. It's a fun
way to try to enhance our experience about other people
and ourselves.
What age groups are involved in this theater that you're
doing now, It.
Depends on the program, but we have gone down as
young as seven. For most of our research though has
been conducted with participants ten to sixteen years of age,
so that the program, and then we also have had
programs for adults and that ranges in the age from
eighteen ten to forty years of age.
Oh, that's great.
How often do they get together for rehearsals?
In general? In the youth program there are ten sessions
and they range between three to four hours each session.
For most of the programs that we've done. It then
culminates into a dress rehearsal as well as two public
performances of the play.
Well, that's great. How many plays have you done to date?
Oh? My goodness, So we've been doing this since two
thousand and nine. I would say that each year. First
of all, I've written approximately about ten different plays for
the program, and each year, well twenty ten we're putting
out Usually we have usually at least two a year,
sometimes as money and score. So qua aque.
How long have you been doing it? A bi.
I've been in Vanderbilt for fourteen years. I've been here
twenty ten and so it's been run through my clinical
research program. Prior to coming here, I ran on the
physiated program for just under two years.
What's the reception been.
I mean, you started and had a wait and see,
let's see what happens. Then it started working, started growing.
What's the reception been not only from the autistic community,
but those outside of the autistic community that would come
to see what you're doing.
So the reception has been wonderful. The autistic community has
embraced it has been really supportive. The families have been
grateful that we have been able to provide a lot
of opportunity for their family members. And because we've done
it the research, many of them have been able to
participate in the program at no cost. In terms of
the peers that have participated in the program, and have
volunteered and provided support for some of them. It's been
really transformative in a lot of ways to be able
to spend time with individuals on the spectrum, gain a
much better understanding not only of the condition but the individuals,
to be able to meet so many different people and
change their perspectible but the thing autism is. And then finally,
the audience has been I think, although we haven't studied it,
but have heard enough comments to believe they've really been
impacted as well. I know that we have an audience
there that's impressionable, and so I intentionally also write stories
that I think are highly relevant. The topics for the
plays are about things like belonging and acceptance and trying
new things, some having characteristic or something that's different and
I am not going to be accepted and those things.
And these messages though are delivered through characters that are
quite wonderfully unique, indifferent, and it's much more palatable to
hear some of these messages when it's delivered by an insect,
but that are an animal or some other lovely entertaining creature.
I think that some of those embedded in the views
have been extremely well received by our audience as well.
Okay, now, how do you find the talent to do this?
I've been really lucky in that I do have members
of my lab who also happen to be remarsibly as vumented.
We also collaborate with doctor Leah Lowe, who was involved
with the theater department. I've also worked with other theater
directors in the past who bring their incredible talent as directors,
and they direct the plays as inclusive as I've possed,
like cans. For example, our theater director that we've worked
with many times is also an adult who is artistic.
Our accompanist is an adult also who has autism. I
write the songs with a parent who has an adult
child with autism. So in many ways we are trying
to not only with our participants in the program, but
here are the voices and honor the perspective of individuals
with autism throughout the program on and off the stage.
Is this being planned to go nationwide or maybe even
worldwide if.
You could, I like your spirit. We have been able
to implement since theater in a couple of sites through
our multis clinical trial in the country, but I think
we've now done so many studies to show its efficacy
that we've been published in high impact journals to show
there are really some significant changes that can take place
for many of our participants. But now we are exploring
different ways so that we can make sense that are
more available to people in other states, Dangly, other countries
who would like to adopt this model.
Nice.
Now we've covered a lot of things that are extremely good. Yeah,
Autistic people are known, unfortunately for some of their meltdowns.
Sure when they're put in a situation like this, does
it lead to anxiety or sensory overload to where they
might be worried about their performance or any possible mistakes
they might make. How do you get pass that so
that they understand that it doesn't really matter, they're doing
it for the fun of it, and just get out
there enjoy what you're doing.
Well. First, I will address this idea of performance in
another area of my research. In my labs, you study stress.
As part of that, we expose individuals which to different
types of what we will call social paradise. One of
them is well established. It's called the Truer Social stress test,
and what it requires is for someone to perform either
telling a story, or participating in a job interview or
some of these kind of situations in front of raiders,
and these raiders have neutral facial expressions and they are
evaluating the person who's getting up and performing for them.
For many of us, not having that positive affirmation of
you're doing a good job or smiling and that sort
of thing, and seeing this flat appic can be incredible
to bird stressful. It also consists of performing a map
subtraction test that if you get it wrong, you have
to start over. Remarkably stressful for most of us, because
if we don't want to be socially evaluated, we'll Across
a number of different studies that we published, we has
found that many individuals hoopulists do not find such situations
to be stressful. This idea of social evaluation and that
kind of threat is not going to be as concerning.
In since theater, we have found for many of our
participants in the same thing, Tony. It's so interesting because
many of them they love being the stage, they want
to perform. It's interesting that in contrast to a lot
of those it's not as stressful as one right imagine.
But the other aspect that you mentioned in terms of
the novelty factor, the new experience of walking into meeting
people you've never met, and doing things we haven't done,
and wearing clothes that might be uncomfortable in the burn
of a costume. Those things we do need to shape,
meaning gradually introduce them. For some of our artisticians, take
things slowly, get them breaks, and also let them participate
in the decision. For example, what kind of custom do
you want to wear? What do you have at home
in your own caoset you can bring to be part
of your custom. When they help, also pick out other
pieces that we might want to get for their character.
That can help. But getting past that first day, if
we can do that, we tell parents that we can
just get their day one. We're going to be fined,
so we try to plan day one pretty carefully.
Okay, Now, in any play, you've got different ages. You've
got me, you've got females all interacting with each other
on the stage. Autistic people are fairly well known for
a lot of things will go past them, for example,
flirting that type of thing. So when you have a
situation where they have to take and make a certain
body movement or interact in a certain way, how do
you get that across to them so that it gets
across to the audience so they understand exactly what's going
on within the play to share a.
Couple of different things that we do. So we've fout
out our septoms with joke time every week, the names
for w one to bring any joke and that they
will perform and we of course support them in lab
even if it's not funny. They have to be clean,
they're g rated. But part of just doing that kind
of gets over our fear of having people laugh, which
some people think at us, but it's really with us.
Also by the ability to learn how to tell Joe,
that can really help. Also going back to what we
mentioned important terms of improvisation, so we use them extricizings
there and is a lot of lead games which kind
of loosen everybody else. We get selly and do things
that everyday life is not allowed. And so that can
also help us to become more flexible not only what
we're saying and approaching things, but also with our bodies
and how we might use them to again gray out
humor for different reactions and other people.
Yeah, now we've covered a lot of great things.
I think one of the most important things here is
you're putting together a group of autistic people that are
creating this body of work. As everyone knows, you've met
one autistic person, you've met one autistic person. What can
you tell us about how they've interacted with each other,
what they've learned from each other. I think the most
important thing is what have.
You learned from it? What have you gained from it yourself.
I think that theater is an ideal environment in which
to welcome so many different voices, points of view, and
ways to express ourselves. We have illustrated that through the programs,
or we also continued to learn. For example, we just
did a program that was for individuals with autism and
intellectual disability, and so they also not only had their
voices heard, but their performance was so well received by
an audience, including some of their parents that marvel at
what their children were able to do. So I think
the theater naturally provides a beautiful platform for us to
embrace art. We can include aspects of science, but it
really does welcome people with all abilities in points of view,
to be able to share their perspective through the telling
of a story and being able to in the process
generally learn about others but also ourselves, and I think
that unfolds naturally in the theater, but also the audience
is a vital part of this intervention as well, because
it's a give and tit and that also that relationships,
which is how we embrace the autism community by being
on the stage and they get off the stage and
how we now see them differently, is actually a platform
for their own voices.
Yeah.
So in closing, have I missed anything that you would
like to tell us that you think is important for
the listeners to to hear about your theater In.
Terms of the program we've been able to provide SINCE
Theater as a form of interventions through the generous support
of research funding. We now are transitioning and exploring different
business models and and seeking a business partners who can
also help build that program to make it more accessible,
still affordable for members of the community, but in ways
that we maintain the integrity of the program that we've
done through research, but at the same time expand our
accessibility so that people in other parts of the country
and potentially event the world would be able to access
SINCE Theater for their autistic community.
How do people find you and how do they contact you?
Different sites for your listeners. If you'd like to learn
more about Since Theater, it's for a nonprofit, the address
is Sence Theater dot com, which is all ower case
s E N s E t h E A t
r E dot com. And then for more information about
Sence Theater as well as our research that we're doing,
you can find out more information on our website at
senslab dot b k C sites dot org. I'll spell
it s.
E N s E l A B dot v k
C s I T E s dot org.
Yeah, yeah, that's great.
This has been a very good conversation, great information, and
I really appreciate you coming on.
Thank you so much, Tony, it's.
Been my pleasure. Thanks again.
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