AvTalk Episode 314: World Champion Gas Ballooning

AVT 314 Transcript
EPISODE 314
[EPISODE]
[0:00:07] IP: Hello, and welcome to Episode 314 of AvTalk. I am Ian Petchenik here as always
with –
[0:00:15] JS: Jason Rabinowitz. Hello, Ian. How are you?
[0:00:18] IP: Hello, Jason. I'm well. The kids are back in school after a week and a half off for
spring break. I was definitely ready for the return to normalcy, and I'm happy to have it. How are
you, sir?
[0:00:32] JS: Fine. Trying to dig out of being buried in a mountain of work, leading up to an
industry conference and some other junk. But hey, I get to go to Chicago next week, and I know
someone else who lives in Chicago. It might be you.
[0:00:48] IP: Well, that's good.
[0:00:50] JS: It might be you.
[0:00:50] IP: It might be me. It might be me. I'm looking forward to seeing you next week.
[0:00:54] JS: Yes, next week's podcast, I don't know. We might do something a little different.
[0:00:59] IP: Yeah. Depending on Jason's schedule, we'll see how things go. But before that,
we have to get through this week's episode, which is a good one. This week, we're talking about
some very interesting things that have happened in the past week, but we're also speaking with
world champion gas balloonists. Stepping outside our commercial aviation comfort zone to learn
more about the world of endurance gas ballooning. So Kolja and Wuzi are going to join us a bit
later in the show to explain what and why that is all about. I'm very excited to bring you that
conversation in just a little bit.
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But first, we go back, as we have often done these past couple weeks, we go back to DC,
where at the beginning of March, a number of flights that were approaching DCA experienced
TCAS resolution advisories. Those are the most serious kind of TCAS alerts where the aircraft
tells the pilots to do something, whether it's climb, descend, maintain, level flight it to avoid
conflict and avoid airborne collision, you need to do something. And a good number of flights
received these alerts. And as it turned out, the alerts were erroneous. There was no actual
conflicting traffic. Something was messing with TCAS. And we talked about this at the beginning
of March when it happened and when it was first reported.
Last week, during a hearing in Congress, Senator Ted Cruz said that the alerts happened
because of a counter drone technology being tested near DCA by the Navy and the Secret
Service. But it gets deeper than that, doesn't it? What did the Secret Service have to say? The
Secret Service added, "The US Secret Service did not conduct any drone system testing in the
national capital region on March 1st, 2025, when all of these TCAS alerts took place." "The
agency has been coordinating with the FAA to ensure our systems do not interfere with FAA
frequencies or commercial air traffic operations.
Additionally, the Secret Service respects the oversight conducted by Senator Cruz and has
reached out to his office to offer a briefing on our airspace operations." That was the Secret
Service's statement. To my knowledge, the Navy has not said anything. So, I don't know if
they're just letting the Secret Service take the lead on this or if they just don't have anything to
add here. But hopefully, whoever was doing whatever they were doing, they won't do it again.
[0:03:47] JR: Yes, if you, in the extremely unlikely chance that you are involved in this project, if
it did actually exist and you're going to do it again, maybe take this out to like the Nevada desert
or out in the middle of the ocean, or literally, anywhere else, other than one of the nation's
busiest, most complex, already burdened, and experienced a tragedy this year airspace? Man,
this is all sorts of bad. Why would they be testing anti-drone technology at the exact frequency
that TCAS operates on, and in such an overburdened airspace? It's kind of unfathomable if this
was an actual thing. I have a hard time believing it. I hope it wasn't actually the case.
But wow, testing on that same frequency and resulting in TCAS RAs, which, if acted upon, could
actually put the aircraft in danger. If the aircraft thinks the systems are avoiding another aircraft,
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it could potentially, I don't know, put it in the path of another aircraft. That's all sorts of bad. But,
wow, hopefully, everyone involved in this thing, if it did happen, is aware of their mistake now,
and it won't be happening again.
[0:04:58] IP: Yes. Let's stay with DC, where following a fight between two controllers last week.
The FAA is now reconfiguring staffing and assigning counselors to the Air Traffic Control Tower
at DCA. In a statement today, they said that they are adding managerial positions, adjusting
staffing levels, further investigating how staffing levels can be further adjusted. As well as
looking at the structure of the arrival banks into DCA, which are all concentrated in the bottom
half of the hour. So, the workload is disproportionate during different times throughout an hour.
So, figuring out how to spread that load a little bit if they possibly can. So, good to see them
taking it seriously. Obviously, news of a bloody fistfight in the control tower is not ideal.
[0:06:03] JR: Not what you want to hear.
[0:06:04] IP: I think it's a good way to understate it. So, glad to see them taking this very
seriously and doing what they can immediately, and then, seeing what they can do long-term.
[0:06:11] JR: Yes. So, the FAA put out a release today saying that to support the wellbeing, a
critical incident stress management team will visit DCA early this month. Also, increasing the
operational supervising staffing from six to eight. I assume that they're pulling from somewhere,
else and/or they're having some people work additional shifts, which can't be a very large pool
to work from. They're reviewing the certified professional controller staffing numbers at DCA.
So, I guess the overall number of controllers working at DCA at any time, they're looking at that.
I think, Ian, that last part is the most interesting, because it also has an operational standpoint. It
is the disproportionately concentrated schedule, they say, within the last 30 minutes of each
hour, which is really quite interesting, and actually potentially a very solvable problem, which
shifting some flights around. I had no idea that that was actually kind of the case. It seems
solvable.
[0:07:06] IP: Yes, it certainly seems solvable. We'll see if it is in fact –
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[0:07:11] JR: Is solvable, yes.
[0:07:13] IP: But to my mind, it does seem solvable. Long-term, there are some other problems
that the FAA is trying to solve. And to that end, they are trying to hire 2,000 new controllers this
year. They recently had an open application period for which they received 10,000 applications,
8,000 of those 10,000 applications have been referred for further review and testing. So, 80%
moving on to the next step. So, that's good to see.
[0:07:46] JR: Yes. So, if 8,000 were referred for testing, the goal was to hire 2,000 this year,
that's what? A quarter. Which I guess is more or less the actual rate that they're able to hire,
since we know the washout rate is so spectacularly high for this. Having 8,000 in the pool is not
too shabby.
[0:08:04] IP: No. I mean, yes, that's how they get their numbers. Yes. So, we'll, I guess, wait
and see when the numbers come out next year.
[0:08:13] JR: Yes. The hard part, historically, I don't think has been difficulty in getting
applications or referring for testing. It has just been getting those people to pass the tests, and
actually stick with it, and go through training. So, that's what needs to actually be improved, and
hopefully, that will be improved. We'll see.
[0:08:28] IP: Let's head to London where Heathrow's chief has been grilled once again on what
they did, why they did it, and what they would do differently if this happens again. What they
talked about, what Woldbye talking about is this configuration switch from the primary power
station to the secondary power stations that also feed Heathrow. Saying that that's what took so
long. There was power degradation in multiple places that they were seeing, and they didn't
want to be without safety-critical systems. They didn't want people coming to the airport
unnecessarily, because what happens if the power then goes out and you have all of these
people in the airport?
So, I understand the rationale behind that. Saying, not closing would have been worse. But the
questions remain, why this type of ungraceful failover happened in the first place. For its part,
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IAG says it's still tallying up all of the costs, but it's going to be somewhere in the tens of millions
of euros due to Heathrow's closure. But, Jason?
[0:09:41] JR: Yes.
[0:09:42] IP: As is often the case with these types of incidents, it seems, there was a bit of a
warning.
[0:09:49] JR: Yes, hindsight is 20/20. But in this case, it's particularly in focus since The
Guardian has an article out today published on April 2nd, Wednesday, where the headline says,
"Airlines warned Heathrow about power supply risk days before outage." Now, if that just isn't
kind of "and I told you so" moment, I hope no one at any of the airlines was, "Well, I told you this
was going to happen," because there's not much you could do about it after the fact. But pretty
interesting timing, let's say, that they were talking about this exact issue, calling it a "very low
probability event." And there you go, it happened.
They weren't talking exactly about what happens if our primary substation goes out and the
main transformer melts the one next to it, and we lose all our primary power. I don't think
anyone was expecting this exact kind of situation, but it was mostly about how the failover from
the primary to other power sources works or did not work. Could they have opened Heathrow
sooner? Could they have predicted that some systems were still online, such as Border Force, I
think? They were saying, "Yes, we're ready. We can accept passengers," but Heathrow was still
at large closed. There's a lot of moving parts here.
I know everyone listening to this podcast is super anxious to get the full report that I'm sure will
take six months, 12 months, whatever. But there's going to be a lot of lessons learned, but there
are some people that are probably saying loudly, "I told you so."
[0:11:16] IP: Yes. I mean, the warnings were not necessarily based on a fire taking out the –
from my understanding, more based on people were stealing the wire. And what could happen if
–
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[0:11:31] JR: Yes, theft is real. That happens all the time. It happens to trains, airports, all sorts
of things. If there's copper, somebody's going to be stupid enough to try to steal it.
[0:11:39] IP: So, that was kind of the basis, but the effects were certainly the same. Interesting
to see how that factors into the final report. Elsewhere, we have a final report that is nearly six
years in the making. This was the crash or accident on landing of the Aeroflot Super Jet in
Moscow in May of 2019. And the Russian Interstate Aviation Committee, which investigates
accidents in Russia, has finally released its final report. A thorough report and one that has
generated some controversy between the investigators, the airline, and the manufacturer of the
aircraft. Because as is often the case, there were multiple contributing factors that the
investigators found that included the design of the aircraft, design of the aircraft systems, pilot
training, pilot handling of the aircraft, and then, what happened once the accident had happened
and the aircraft was on the ground, and people needed to evacuate.
So, let's just kind of walk through the basics of what happened. I'm not going to go super in-
depth into the precise, because they go very in-depth. So, we'll put a link to an English
translation of the report in the show notes that you can go through at your leisure. But the long
and the short of it is that, the aircraft departed was struck by lightning, and then, reverted to
direct mode. Multiple control laws, and because of the lightning strike, something happened to
the aircraft systems and it reverted to direct mode.
The investigators say that this complex situation was not effectively addressed in the pilot
training. Therefore, the pilots didn't really have the knowledge or the skills to safely operate the
aircraft in this mode. Though, the aircraft had been certified with operation in direct mode, the
complexity of this particular situation was not something that was certified by itself. There was
no situation like this. So, the pilots are operating with insufficient knowledge, and skills. And
then, that leads to an approach to the airport that was not stable and was not how you want to
approach an airport.
[0:14:27] JR: No, that's true.
[0:14:28] IP: They also had what the investigators are saying are incorrect assessments of wind
conditions, and especially, wind shear conditions at the time. So, they did not take into account
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the predictive wind shear alerts. And as a result, as they were landing, encountered a
microburst in the flare. The crew did not necessarily respond to this in a way that increased the
safety of the flight. And there were a number of choices made by the captain that led to the
aircraft touching down very hard multiple times. On the third touchdown, the aircraft suffered
severe damage, including damage to the landing gear, puncture of the fuel tanks, and that's
where the fire started.
[0:15:28] JR: Yes. Then, we see again, another contributing cause here is that they activated
reverse thrust after the first bounce, which they – makes it impossible to perform a subsequent
go around. So, they're basically, as we've talked about several times before, they're committed
to landing at that point. So, even if they knew this landing is not going right, we should go
around and try this again, you can't at that point. You're committed. Well, we know what the end
result was.
[0:15:55] IP: Yes. The investigation also looked at the evacuation. There were 41 fatalities of
the 78 people on board. And all but one of the fatalities were from people, either passengers or
crew, who were behind row 11. And the fire began consuming the rear of the aircraft. And we
see there's a delay in getting folks out, because they can only use the front exits. But the
investigation and video of the evacuation that we've seen in the past shows that multiple
passengers were carrying luggage with them. And the report details how that attempt to retrieve
hand luggage, or actual retrieval of hand luggage, and taking it with them impeded the
evacuation, and very likely led to an increased death toll in this accident.
[0:17:04] JR: Yes. There were other little bits like during the evacuation, apparently, the engines
were still operating. They were not promptly shut down by the crew. Inability to use the rear exits
for evacuation, we talked about passenger stampede and panic. And even down to the flight
attendants using the PA system, which somehow resulted in reduced passenger awareness
because of the evacuation. There's a lot going on here. I can kind of understand why it took
them six years to put out this final report. It's a lot.
[0:17:34] IP: So, for its part, the airline has basically disagreed with the entire report saying,
"No, the pilots didn't do anything wrong. It's just all circumstance, and some of it could be
aircraft stuff. United Aircraft Corporation saying, "Everything was operating within limits. We
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don't need to redesign anything." Even though the investigators have said, "Maybe it's worth
revisiting how these systems operate, so that we can prevent things like this in the future."
That's a very interesting thing to me to see.
The airline, the manufacturer, and the investigators all seemingly added an impasse on how to
proceed here. Hopefully, some of these human factors and systems factors are taken into
account by those who could help prevent this from ever happening again. Let's pause, take a
break, and come back with Kolja and Wuzi, and talk about long endurance gas ballooning. A
new topic for this podcast and one that I was very excited to learn much more about. We'll take
a break and we'll be right back.
[INTERVIEW]
[0:18:48] IP: Welcome back. We're stepping outside the world of commercial aviation today, not
necessarily as far as we possibly can, but quite a wise out. I'm joined today by Kolja and Wuzi,
who operated a hydrogen gas balloon from the border of Germany and Austria, all the way to
Scotland. And they are here to walk us how you do that. Kolja, Wuzi, thank you so much for
joining.
[0:19:14] WW: Thank you for having us.
[0:19:16] KP: Happy to be here. Thank you.
[0:19:17] IP: So, let's start with, I think, the most obvious question is, why would you do
something like this?
[0:19:22] KP: So, first of all, I mean, we're not in commercial flying, obviously here. We're in a
private kind of pastime flying aviation, and so it is fun. We do this as a pastime, as a hobby, but
with quite some challenging goals. So, actually, Wuzi and his co-pilot, lady, Steffi, they are the
actual world champions. They won the world championship last September. So, any flight we
do, we use as a large team to train and improve. So, yes, it's pastime, it's a hobby, and we take
it quite serious to achieve sport challenges.
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[0:20:01] IP: I mean, this is a very intense hobby. There's got to be a whole team behind this to
plan these flights, to launch these, to be on hand for landing. What does it take to plan one of
these flights and operate one of these flights?
[0:20:19] WW: Yeah, that's actually the biggest challenge. Like the whole, I would say, on any
adventure, the biggest part is the preparation to be well prepared. And if it sounds like a very old
school stuff to do to fly with a balloon that long distances, but actually, there's a lot of
professional preparation involved from our team, from the world championships, we have a
command center of six to eight people which help us with that. Because with the balloon, we are
very limited on the steering. So, we have to make sure that we have certain air spaces, like
military air spaces, no terms. Also, big airports, we have that on site, and we can make heading
corrections early on. By early on, I mean, hours, like sometimes six, seven hours ahead that we
have to climb to a certain altitude to just get this slightly wind thrift maybe two three degrees to
the left or right to avoid this airspace in six seven hours ahead of time. So, that's what the
command center is helping us to do.
We also have – since we cannot be sure that after we land that the wind will turn around and we
can fly back. We need to have a car that follows. So, we have a chase crew that is following us
and helping us to retrieve the balloon and also get us back to where we started from. So, it's
quite a huge team, and we are very, very thankful that they are also enthusiastic as we are. As
already Kolja mentioned before, it's not just for this flight, but we are a big team training for the
world championships. So, this is all in preparation for that.
[0:22:04] IP: So, when you're actually in the balloon, are you coordinating with air traffic control
yourselves, or is that something that the team is doing on your behalf just to kind of make
everyone aware who needs to be aware of this flight?
[0:22:19] KP: So, as in, usually in flights or anybody who's in the air, and taking part of the
aviation traffic, we are in contact with ATC when needed and when obliged to obviously. And as
we are flying over a long period of time, we're always playing with a flight plan, so we're known.
We're actually in constant contact with ATC. That can be a control unit that is not taking care
about controlled air spaces, when we're not in controlled air spaces. But whenever we are
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approaching controlled air spaces or in controlled air spaces, obviously, we would need a
clearance for that. We are in contact with them.
That is mainly done in the air, but obviously, there is some challenges sometimes when we fly
low or when it has to be done hours in advance because we cannot steer very large turns, let's
say, or we can only change within a few degrees sometimes on our track. So then, we need our
command crew, command center on the ground. They actually phone the ATC units and prepare
them for or ask in advance, "Can we go through there? Can we get the clearance?"
[0:23:33] IP: So, you've mentioned turning just a few degrees. How do you turn a balloon?
[0:23:39] WW: Yes. To turn a balloon, the only way how to steer a balloon is to use the wind
directions in different altitudes. That means, by the rule of thumb, as a balloonist, you would say,
when you climb, you would turn to the right, and if you descend, you would turn back to the left.
It's not always like this, but that's basically it. On some days, you have the opportunity to
actually do like a 180 degree turn and fly back to where you came from. But let's say, in the
most, especially if you have wind speeds that you need to a flight like this, you can steer up to,
let's say, plus minus 20 degrees of your track.
So, if you're on this location where we're flying, we had fairly good steerability, we call it, but
sometimes it's less, sometimes it's more. It really depends on the wind strength and on the
weather system.
[0:24:35] IP: Interesting. Tell me more about the life inside the balloon. What are you doing
throughout the flight? How are you staying safe? I mean, just a few thousand feet up, it gets
pretty cold. So, how do you prepare for these flights, and what goes on inside the balloon during
these flights?
[0:24:56] KP: So, when you go on a long flight like this, an endurance flight, we call it, you will
have to rest, and actually the normal rhythm is one is on charge, one is a pilot in command and
the other is resting best of all, I mean a few hours of sleep, obviously, during the rest. So, we
have a bunk, you can get your feet out of the basket, there's a little opening in the basket and
let's say most of the time one is resting, one is awake and we have a few hours in between
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added up on a whole flight like this, where we kind of hand over and spend some time together.
It's actually little time of these long periods.
So, that is one thing. You need rest if you go on long flights like this. For the cold, it really
depends the time of the year, the altitudes you go at. On this specific flight, we were not flying
that high, which was actually quite exciting because I mean, flying low takes a lot of
concentration, especially at night, obviously, but also a daytime people can spot you, which
actually led into quite some good responses, and I think also was one of the reasons why we
were viewed by many people on Flightradar24.
[0:26:03] IP: Yes. Yes, absolutely.
[0:26:05] KP: So, the cold wasn't that challenging on this specific flight. We probably had minus
four degrees, minus five, to minus six degrees Celsius. I wouldn't know what that adds up in
Fahrenheit. So, it was not freezing point, but as in the basket, you're moving with a mass of air,
you don't have any wind in the basket, and it does not feel that cold, if you are dressed properly,
which means jacket down, trousers, and down sleeping bag, in addition, if you're in the bunk all
the time.
At daytime, it would be actually quite nice and warm because you don't do flights like this in a
worse weather, obviously, but in good weather conditions, so you'd have the sun out most of the
time. You have no wind in the basket, so that adds up to quite pleasant temperatures even at
winter time.
[0:26:51] WW: Maybe to add on to this, there is, I mean the flight took us almost like 45 hours.
So, that's much longer than you can stay with any powered aircraft in the air. But that's not
particularly the longest flights he would do. World championship flights the last years, they were
lasting around like 70 hours, and actually Kolja just recently broke the world record in this gas of
balloons with staying up in the air for more than 100 hours. He was for 100 hours and 14
minutes.
[0:27:24] IP: My goodness. Congratulations.
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[0:27:26] WW: I was quite lucky that I have the most experienced guy in duration of flights
there, and that's another story. So, it's like twice as long or more than twice as long than this
particular flight to Scotland was. That's a whole different level.
[0:27:39] IP: Wow. So, 45 hours is almost two full days. If you're up there for 100 hours, I mean,
I guess my same question stands, but just even more of it. How do you do this stuff that you
need to do when you're on the ground? Eat? We talked about sleep with the bunk. There's the
question of having multiple people inside of a fairly small basket still needing to use the toilet.
How does that work?
[0:28:06] WW: Obviously, you need to be comfortable with each other and you need to be
friends to go on it. You're like this. So, yes, that's the first thing. As Kolja already mentioned, like,
let's say during the most of the time, the most of the hours, you can imagine that the basket is 1
meter by 1 meter 30, and there is a bench in there where you can sit on, and under the bench
there is the bed. There's like a little hole with a ramp where you can stick out your legs So,
there's like a full-size bed in the basket, and if the other pilot is in the bed, you basically feel or
you don't see them. You don't see the other pilot. You're alone in the basket so it's kind of roomy
and spacey, so that's most of the times.
Yes, and of course, if you have to go and use the toilet, then there are different procedures
either you wait until the other one is sleeping, or in my case what we did is I played some nice
loud Rammstein music and we were hanging a curtain in between and then you have your little
privacy. But yes, that's the things you have – the compromises you have to accept on your
private life.
[0:29:14] KP: We actually use the chance when we're going over the sea or the channel.
[0:29:19] WW: Yes.
[0:29:20] IP: There you go.
[0:29:21] WW: We call it, going to the toilet with a view. So, you can see the nice view.
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[0:29:27] IP: Can't beat it. When you're the pilot in command, what are your responsibilities,
what do you do? I mean, we've talked about how it's not really – you can only steer it so much,
so what are you doing? What kind of safety checks are happening? What's going on when
you're actually piloting the balloon?
[0:29:42] KP: As with any other VFR traffic, really, you're monitoring your flight constantly, so
that is direction, altitude, you're in ATC contact, you're forcing, where are you going? Is there
upcoming air spaces? We're not talking about within 10 minutes, but we're talking within hours,
so we actually had to decide already entering into France we have made the decision where are
we going to pass the whole of London area, to the east or to the west? Because it's a huge area
of controlled air spaces of CTRs or controlled tower regions and where we would not have been
able to pass with normal visual flight rules.
So, that is constant monitoring. Actually, we had to avoid air spaces throughout nearly the whole
flight until, let's say, the last six hours of flight. It was very, very busy that flight. And you're
actually looking at numbers all the time. You're looking for layers. Where can you go a few more
degrees to the right to avoid an airspace? Where can you go slower or faster to be in time
before an activation of an airspace?
I mean, this takes up a lot of awareness and energy. Yes, and of course, I mean, there's long-
term planning that you need to take in. Are you resting enough? Are you having taken in enough
energy and drink because you are at altitude?
[0:31:01] WW: Maybe just to explain, because most people are mainly familiar with hot air
balloons. So, with a hot air balloon, you have to constantly operate the heater to heat up the air
inside your envelope. That's the neat thing about the Hydrogen balloon is as soon as you're
buoyant, that means that you have like the – your buoyant, basically you're in level flight, what
the balloon is naturally doing it's going like a slightly bit up and down and bouncing in between
the inversion layers of the atmosphere. So, it would descend either colder layer of air and then
naturally because you have a denser air, it has a higher buoyancy, and you would start climbing
again until you reach the upper layer, and then it will stop climbing and then slowly descend.
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So, you’re basically always monitoring is like, what is the balloon doing? And also, you have to
be aware that the whole atmosphere you're flying in is moving around the planet. So, if you're
moving on this particular flight, it was just at the beginning. Actually, I was sleeping when we
were going over the hilly areas. This is what Kolja had to deal with. But if you're traveling with
the air, so if the air is hitting a mountain, you will start to climb, and you have to be aware that if
there is a mountain, behind the mountain, there could be rotors and turbulences. So, you have
to be prepared to throw some ballast to climb out of that.
Yes, constant monitoring is what is the balloon doing? Why is it doing it? Do I need to drop
some ballast or can I just let it fly? So, that's the biggest difference between hot air balloon and
the hydrogen-filled or helium-filled gas balloon. So, it's just sitting there and observing the
balloon fly.
[0:32:43] KP: Yes, and maybe to add on this, for us the possibility to choose an altitude for let's
say different direction or different speeds of air movement. We have two means. We can
release gas to descend, or we can throw out ballast, which we have with us in form of bag,
sandbags. So, we have sand with us and maybe some water for delicate areas above the
towns. We can release, throw out ballast to climb. But obviously, we cannot take an infinite
amount of ballast with us. We have only a limited amount.
So, yes, how much ballast we use over time will enable us to actually achieve such long flights.
Any gas balloonist is very delicate about releasing ballast. He will not want to release ballast. He
will want the balloon to act as – well, how can I say that? Act as free as it wants, as long as
possible, and then interact, release gas, release ballast, only if necessary because it's a limited
resource.
[0:33:49] IP: Fascinating. Let's talk about the end of the flight. You've made it all the way from
the Austria-Germany border. You've made it up to the Scottish National Museum of Flight. How
do you, A, land, and B, land where you want to?
[0:34:05] WW: Where you land is like you have a plan for sure, like a long-term plan before you
start your flight where you want to go. For us, the goal was to reach Scotland and first of all, like
the main goal was to reach England, the island as such, and then to continue to fly up to
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Scotland, and if possible further north. So, the goal was reached, let's say, that way, and the
wind trajectories were in a way that they were turning towards east and into the North Sea.
So, we had the option to stay in the altitude where we were and pass the CTR of Edinburgh but
they were quite busy at the time when we arrived, so we did not get any clearance to pass
through that. We decided to just land east of it and that's quite an interesting phenomenon, you
have on the on the sea, when you land close to the sea, instead you have the wind blowing from
the sea during the day, from the sea towards the land during the day, and the opposite is during
night, so we were  arriving during daytime so we knew and we saw it also on the windmills on
the ground that the wind was blowing from the sea towards the shore. You have a good idea
where you're going to go when you descend or how the wind direction is going to be and then
we kind of saw that nice airfield actually we were not aware that it is the National Museum of
Flight at first. But yes, we saw the nice airfield and said, “Why not land on an airfield when there
is one.”
[0:35:38] IP: I assume that's the ideal situation.
[0:35:42] WW: Yes, it can be or can't, depending on if how much traffic there is on the airfield.
But of course, you want to land somewhere where, obviously, don't damage anything like any
crops on the ground, which at that time of the year was not the issue, but also that you can
retrieve the whole balloon. So, the whole balloon system weighs like close to 200 kilos. You
don't want to land somewhere in a muddy field where you have to carry that by hand out. So, it's
always, if you have the option to land close to the street, you will take this option.
[0:36:15] IP: So, you depart from one country and you land in another, but in this case, you
arrived at an airfield, but it sounds like it's not an airfield where you can just walk over to the
customs desk. How does that all work?
[0:36:28] KP: So, within the European Union, obviously, there is free transit of borders and
there's no control and it's no problem at all. I mean, we can actually fly and land and there is no
customs or immigration necessary. But that has changed, obviously, with the UK after the Brexit.
So, customs and immigration is necessary. It depends a bit from country to country. But we have
also flown to Serbia, which also is not within the EU. We have overflown non-EU countries and
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landed in an EU country after that. Most times in these cases, I mean, countries want to, let's
say, have a registration, want to see your passport, want to know that you're there. And
obviously, it is necessary. So, what was good for us on that specific flight was that we actually
weren't more than 30 or 35 kilometers away from Edinburgh Airport, which is an international
airport, which has an immigration office, obviously. So, it wasn't that far to go there and make an
appointment with them, had our immigration done, actually outside the airport, which was an
unusual case for them.
[0:37:33] IP: Yes, I was going to say, did they ever kind of look at you and say, “I'm sorry, what?
You arrived how?”
[0:37:39] KP: Well, actually, the question arose first time when I called to close the flight plan,
because, I mean, we cannot, or when we go and land, we mostly land outside an area where
we still have contact with ATC. We don't have the radio coverage anymore with them. So, we
get a number from them beforehand and after we land, we call them and close to the flight plan.
And then we asked, “Well, what's the process for immigration?”
I mean, they were actually occupied for five minutes to find out altogether, and they wouldn't
have an answer, but they took our number. But then we were even on our way to immigration.
Immigration called us, so the process there was, it was forwarded. We got in touch with each
other and could make an appointment and so that turned out right.
[0:38:23] IP: Excellent. So, what's next for you all? Is there another kind of endurance flight
upcoming? Is it the World Championships? Tell me what you're up to next.
[0:38:32] WW: The next big goal with our team is for sure beginning of September, the World
Championships. They're going to be in France, in Metz. That's the Gordon Bennett race, the FII
Long Distance World Championships. And that's the beginning of September. Until that, it's a
bit, now it's getting more trickier because for these long duration flights, you need kind of a
stable weather. And by stable, I don't need like hot summer weather stable, but as least
terminals as possible. So, we will try to get in a few flights me and my co-pilot, [Steffi? inaudible
0:39:08], for sure, when she's coming back from Antarctica. That's where she is right now, she's
an expedition guide and we're going to try to have some flights and also some other short flights
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just to train like our command center people like on gas ballooning. So, that's our aim just to be
have everybody prepared and current for the upcoming world championships. That's our main
goal.
[0:39:30] IP: Fantastic. I know every year, the Gordon Bennett race is a big draw on
Flightradar24 for with all of the balloons. So, very much looking forward to tracking that in
September. And very thankful to have chatted with you both today. Kolja and Wuzi, who have
explained the world of gas ballooning to me and to all of us, I very much appreciate you joining
the podcast. Thank you so much.
[0:39:52] WW: Thank you, Ian.
[0:39:52] KP: Thank you, Ian, for having us.
[0:40:00] IP: Welcome back. Jason, we're going to get a balloon, right? And join the Gordon
Bennett race?
[0:40:04] JR: Not a topic I ever thought we would be discussing. But here we are.
[0:40:08] IP: But here we are.
[0:40:10] JR: Here we are.
[0:40:11] IP: That was so much fun. And I don't know if I necessarily want to do it because it
sounds like a lot of work, but it sounds like it would be a lot of fun.
[0:40:19] JR: Yes. I'm sorry. I didn't get to join for it. I had very limited heads up that this was
happening. But when you told me what this interview was, I was very disappointed that I could
not join, because –
[0:40:29] IP: You're going to have to actually listen to the episode now.
[0:40:32] JR: Not say anything we can't take back.
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[0:40:35] IP: Speaking of saying things you can't take back, let's talk about Canada and –
[0:40:41] JR: Oh, Canada. I'm sorry.
[0:40:42] IP: Weakening travel demand. This is an interesting one. So, OAG came out with a
shocking headline, an absolutely gobsmackingly shocking headline.
[0:40:56] JR: OAG being –
[0:40:57] IP: The Original Airline Guide.
[0:40:59] JR: It's right there in the name, original. They are a storied long historic company who
has put out schedules. They have all sorts of insights into airline operations, schedules,
everything. We use their data at work. So, when OAG says something, people tend to take it at
face value, but what happened?
[0:41:20] IP: They said that forward bookings for the Canada-US market are down in the
neighborhood of 70%.
[0:41:33] JR: That's a very big number. We're going to call the Canada-US flights transborder
from here on out, because that's what they're typically referred to. When OAG said forward
bookings were down 70%, I think it was a mix of stunned shock combined with, I don't know,
dread would be the word. Then maybe that's not the case because very quickly and
unexpectedly, regardless of how we feel about the situation, everything that's going on, a
number of airlines came out and said, “Actually, it's not even close to that, is it?”
[0:42:11] IP: No. I mean, yes, demand appears to be softening. Yes, airlines are, especially
Canadian airlines, are reconfiguring their schedules. We'll talk about those in a moment. But
they're saying they are not seeing bookings down anywhere near 70%. So, a few percent here
and there. Let's see, we've got Porter saying bookings are down about 10%, Air Canada is
saying down a few percent. So, it's nowhere near 70% for year on year. The airlines came out
very quickly to say, “It's not that bad.” But also not great.
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[0:42:51] JR: Yes. So, Porter is specifically an interesting use case here. One, I am particularly
interested in as well because I'm supposed to be flying on Porter's second day of operation on
the new LaGuardia route, which they confirmed is still a thing. However, on the other side, and I
quote from a recent press release about some of how Porter is reconfiguring its North American
service to account for this. But they quote, “Porter has increased capacity in the US by 25%
year over year. Based on our current spring bookings, the number of passengers traveling on
Porter across our transporter routes is up more than our capacity, demonstrating strong travel
demand for Porter's elevated experience.” They get a little editorial at the end, so they are still
shifting some demand from the US to domestic Canada and elsewhere, but they're still up 25
percent year over year and there is more demand than their capacity. And I guess it's a little bit
of a weird point in time for Porter because they are just now ramping up their E195-E2 fleet.
They have far more aircraft now than they did this time last year. So, they have much more, I
think they have 10 more aircraft compared to this time 2024. So, they just naturally have the
capability to operate more flights to the US.
But Even so, they're 25% up year over year, so it's very hard to reconcile these numbers that
OAG is saying it's down 70%, but Porter, one of the main Canadian airlines, is saying, “Actually,
we're up 20% over last year,” so 25% year over year. So, I don't know. I'm very confused by this.
I know personally, I have three trips to Canada planned over the next couple months, and I'm
very excited about them because I love Canada.
[0:44:37] IP: I mean, who doesn't?
[0:44:38] JR: Everyone loves Canada. I love it in the state it is in. I love going to Montreal
except when it's 95 degrees. I love Toronto. And I love a special trip I may have planned with a
couple of familiar voices from this podcast.
[0:44:53] IP: We'll talk more about that.
[0:44:55] JR: Yes, got to keep that one in the back pocket for now.
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[0:44:58] IP: In a few weeks. Let's close out the show with some aircraft order and route
announcements. We've got a big order from BOC Aviation, the Singapore-based lessor, taking
an additional 50 737-8 MAX aircraft, bringing the order book up to 135, I believe, and then 70
A320 Neo Family aircraft, bringing that order book up to I think around 200. So, that's another
nice chunk of narrow body ordering right there.
United has made some interesting moves today. They teased a route announcement yesterday
on Tuesday, April 1st, but they waited until April 2nd to announce it because they are not fooling.
They are basically bringing back the Hong Kong hub.
[0:45:49] JR: Yes, the Hong Kong mini-hub, and this time with big planes.
[0:45:54] IP: Yes.
[0:45:55] JR: So, after last year where United announced it would start operating some narrow-
body flights out of Tokyo, Narita to like Ulaanbaatar and Kaohsiung, Taiwan, United's not done
throwing darts at the map for some interesting cities. So, it will be additionally operating some
flights out of Hong Kong, interestingly, I believe on 787-9s to Bangkok and Ho Chi Minh City, so
Thailand and Vietnam, that is super, super interesting. I guess they can't make it direct from San
Francisco or anywhere on the West Coast, so they're going to be going via Hong Kong where
you'll be able to connect.
They are also announcing a new non-stop, only three-time weekly service from San Francisco,
but Adelaide, Australia, I think the first time any US airline has operated there at least non-stop. I
don't think any other airlines operated there, and also adding a second flight to the Philippines,
which is interesting, but that's an existing route. But you really have to enjoy seeing United
throw darts at the wall like this and see what sticks. Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh City, and Adelaide, I
mean, let's do it. That's great. Yes, American can keep operating to, I don't know, what was it,
Albuquerque, or what did they say their focus was being a regional operator before they went
back to trying to be a real airline? They only wanted to focus on secondary US cities, and here
we are, United being like, “Let's go to Bangkok and Ho Chi Minh City.”
[0:47:23] IP: Let's focus on secondary Australian cities.
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[0:47:25] JR: A Hong Kong mini-hub. It's a very, very different approach, and I like it.
[0:47:31] IP: Lufthansa is shifting four of its A350-900s from the Munich base to Frankfurt, not
something that they were particularly excited about doing, but they don't have their 787s and
they certainly don't have their 777Xs, so A350-900s it is. I believe these are the ex-Philippine
Airlines aircraft, if I –
[0:47:57] JR: They are not. I think they are the regular version of the Lufthansa product or the
ex-Philippines version. I'm not sure. But what we do know for a fact is they will be operating to
Seoul, Shanghai, Denver, and Seattle.
[0:48:10] IP: All right then. There you go. And congratulations to Lao Airlines as they take their
first Comac C909, formerly known as the ARJ21. I believe this is the second non-mainland
China delivery after, is it TransNusa?
[0:48:28] JR: Yes, in Indonesia, this is the second airline. It's a dry lease. So, this is a bit of
interesting stuff here that I don't know if this is actually an aircraft that belongs to Lao Airlines or
is leased directly. But hey, it's a C909 operating in a non-China country, so that is at least
noteworthy, I think.
[0:48:49] IP: There you go. And on that note, we'll call this the end of episode 314 of AvTalk. I
am Ian Petchenik, here as always with –
[0:48:59] JR: Jason Rabinowitz. Thanks for listening.
[END]
[END]
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