#29 Elyse

Hey, how is it that a seal keeps balls on 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:09.880 their nose? Now, no, no, I have something serious. 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:13.280 If I have to grocer in the house and I've 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:14.000 got to paint the door. 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:15.800 So you're painting the door to your house? 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.560 Yeah, paints the door red. It's gonna be very nice. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:25.280 But you know what a red door symbolizes, right, noge 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:29.200 is a bordello. You're kidding, right, That's how sailors would know. 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:31.400 They would have them down by the view pole and 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.360 they would be able to know where they could kidding 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:46.400 me right, make whoopee for for money? Who's that neighbor? 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:48.200 Could you ask them about the red door? 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:49.440 Zach? 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:54.600 I need this. 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.839 From Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight 0:01:15.560 --> 0:01:32.080 Today's episode ilise. So now what happens? Ara's gonna call 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.240 We'll see, Oh boy, get ready. For a while back, 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.720 my producers and I decided to try a phone in episode. 0:01:40.360 --> 0:01:44.600 Larry King, Rush Limbaugh and other Goldstein esque personalities had 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:48.040 found success with them. So why, I wondered from the 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:55.960 depths of my ignorance, couldn't die and so full of 0:01:56.040 --> 0:01:59.120 hubris and hope, we open the phone lines and invite 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.000 the whole world to call in with a small moment 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:06.720 from their past, something to revisit and resolve, all during 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:12.560 the course of a five minute phone call. This is 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:15.040 why I got into this business, the you know, the 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:19.320 feeling of live radio. As I'm to learn the thing 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:21.880 about a phone in show is that you need people 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:24.840 to phone in and nobody. 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:29.120 Is cause everyone's day. 0:02:31.960 --> 0:02:34.600 But just as I'm starting to wonder if Gimblet Media 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:36.960 has forgotten to pay its telephone bill. 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:42.280 Again, Oh, here we go, ready, we're answering. 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.919 All right, Hello, this is Jonathan speaking. 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:48.560 Hi Jonathan, how's it going. 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:49.560 It's going okay? 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:50.200 Is this uh? 0:02:50.480 --> 0:02:51.440 What's your name? 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.680 Elie? This is You're very surprised I got through. This 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:55.480 is so exciting. 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:01.520 I guess you really lucked out. Is a longtime listener, 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:04.960 first time caller from Washington, d C. And as it 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.880 turns out, her call proves not only the first of 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.200 the day, but also the last. And this is not 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.680 just because we don't receive any other calls. It's because 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.480 I'm completely drawn in by the story. At least tells 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:24.000 me about herself and her dad. What's his name, Billy? Billy? 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:30.240 Yeah, So I guess I basically I am a strange 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:31.040 from my father. 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:35.200 When Aalise was a kid, Billy was the fun parent, 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:37.920 the one who always had hours to play with her, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.680 the guy who, in spite of being something of a 0:03:40.720 --> 0:03:44.680 macho man, gave himself over to playing beauty salon, even 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:49.280 allowing Elise to paint his toenails. Before the estrangement, Billy 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.680 and Elise were really close, which is why not having 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.600 any relationship now hurts the way it does. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.600 She was my dad, like already of a family vacation 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:02.120 was like show up in a country with no plan 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.320 and like rent a car and just like drive around 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:06.680 and it was amazing. Like that's what That's what life 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:08.520 with dad was like. It was like every day it 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:09.200 was an Indvanshire. 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:17.680 Even the way Billy met Alisa's mom was like something 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.239 out of a movie, the first act of a film noir. 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.240 Billy was an Englishman driving through Chattanooga on a tourist 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.640 visa when he got into a terrible car accident, and 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:32.520 the physical therapist assigned to him was Elisa's mom. Billy 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:34.840 was still in a wheelchair when he talked her into 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.280 sneaking him out of the hospital for their first date. 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:42.880 Pretty soon after they got married and had Alise. Billy 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.480 never went back to England. Instead, he stayed with his 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.480 family in Chattanooga and became a successful used car salesman. 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.400 I have a lot of things in my upbringing in 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.880 life with him to be very grateful for. In addition 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.400 to all the craziness in. 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:02.719 Reference to her dad brings up craziness a lot, like 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.479 the crazy way Billy ruined her credit by opening a 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:08.520 business in her name, or the crazy time he drove 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:11.880 home a brand new car only to have cops come 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.920 looking for it with their guns drawn, or the crazy 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.320 way he destroyed his twenty four year marriage with a 0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:20.960 series of affairs. There's one Christmas where he bailed on 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.120 the family, only to spend the holiday with another woman. 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.520 And for all of these things, no matter how jarring 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.320 or painful, Elise's found it in herself to forgive her father. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.760 But there's one thing she hasn't been able to forgive. 0:05:35.760 --> 0:05:39.839 About five years ago, he moved out of the country 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:41.360 without telling. 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:47.640 Us us is Elise and her mom. Elisa's parents had 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:51.200 been married her whole life, but had recently separated around 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.680 the time of his disappearance. Her last good memory of 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.520 her dad is watching him wave from the crowd as 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:01.599 she crossed the stage at our college graduation. Days later, 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:06.440 he disappeared, and disappeared as the word for it. Elise 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.800 says that when she went over to his house she 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.960 found food rotting in the refrigerator and all the furniture 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:20.839 still there. For a week, Alise had no idea what 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:25.000 had happened to her father, and then she received an email. 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:27.719 It simply said he'd be gone for a little while 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.080 and that email was the best way to stay in touch. 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:34.880 There was no further explanation. The next time she heard 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:38.159 from him was on her birthday six months later, a 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.359 Christmas note. And that's more or less been the pattern 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:42.800 for the last five years. 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:48.960 On holidays and my birthday and stuff like that. His 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.600 emails are very short, like three sentences or less, sort 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.520 of happy whatever holiday it is. I hope you're well, 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:57.080 love Dad. 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:02.040 At first, Alise tried responding. She'd express some of her 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.839 pain and anger in hopes of provoking a more substantial dialogue, 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:09.840 but Billy would refuse to engage. So after an email 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.760 pressing her father for answers, a few months would pass 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.160 with no response, and then an email would land in 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:19.920 Alisa's inbox, wishing her a happy whatever holiday it is, 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:23.560 and hoping she's well. Love Dad, as though nothing was 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:27.920 ever expressed and nothing was ever asked of him. Eventually, 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:30.920 Alie stopped responding to his emails entirely. 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:34.280 We don't have a mailing address for him. I don't 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.680 know if it's phone number. Like the only connection I 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:38.840 have to him is a concast email address. 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:40.800 Do you do you know where he's living. 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.840 He's in the Philippines, and that's all I know. My 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:47.040 mom has a pinpointed like a region. But like there 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:48.480 was ever, Like he never told me where he was 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.240 going or why he never he never explained why he left. 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:57.040 And this is what Elise wants, an explanation for his departure, 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.480 an emotional, honest conversation where she can ask him why 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.680 and what happened, because in the five years since she 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.000 last saw him, a lot has happened. 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:09.560 He started a new family. He also has like a 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.720 wife and a kid. Uh huh. And then he actually 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:17.239 named his new daughter my name Elise. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:23.360 Oh my god, I. 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:28.360 Just find it so insulting. It's just such a transparent replacement, 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.200 Like I moved to a country and like made a 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:31.880 new youth. 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:36.000 So when people search for Elise on Facebook, the first 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.720 result that comes up is new Elise and the page 0:08:38.720 --> 0:08:42.120 Billy made for her, which means old Elise is forced 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:45.079 to constantly explain that this is her dad's new daughter 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.720 from his new family, who also just so happens to have. 0:08:48.640 --> 0:09:03.720 Her name, Like, he just wants me to like love 0:09:03.800 --> 0:09:07.120 him and be happy with him again. But the elephant 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.560 in the room is that he's living mysteriously somewhere for 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:13.840 half a decade and we've never discussed it. 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:15.960 At least feels like she and Billy are living in 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.440 two different realities. She in the one where her father 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.240 abandoned her, and he in the one where he did 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.720 nothing wrong. She wants her dad to validate what she's 0:09:25.720 --> 0:09:30.480 seen and felt to understand. Otherwise, how can they move forward? 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.280 Are you wanting to have a relationship with him? 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.200 Pardon me? Is because he's also he's like diabetic, and 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.160 like he's just kind of old and sick and might 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:44.480 die and I might never know. He's sixty five and 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:48.959 possibly working a very physically taxing job. He was working 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.160 on container ships when we first moved over, And I've 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.439 been passively choosing the root of not having a relationship, 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.319 but the fear and the guilt gets worse with time. 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:03.520 What would pursuing a relationship look like? 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.960 That's what I'm That's what I'm trying to figure out. 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:16.439 It's like, yeah, I mean, he's my dad and he's 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:19.120 I feel like he's trying to maintain a relationship with me, 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:23.559 and I just don't know how to work past it. 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:27.680 I know I can sometimes come across as something of 0:10:27.720 --> 0:10:31.040 a meddler, but I only decide to get involved in 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:35.640 the business of upturning people's entire lives after hours, sometimes 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:40.640 even days, of careful consideration. But then, I've never hosted 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.760 a call in show before, and so adrenalized by the 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.680 single flashing light on my switchboard and the imperial perch 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:53.400 of my slightly elevated swivel chair, I dive in, would 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:56.520 you want me to call him up? And I say this, 0:10:56.760 --> 0:11:00.240 by the way, like with the idea that it's could 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:04.640 be a terrible, terrible idea, I'm not championing this idea. 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:05.880 This could be a stupid idea. 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:08.559 It's better than any of the ideas that I've had 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:13.200 for the past five years. So yeah, I think I 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:14.240 think it would be helpful. 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:19.520 My idea is to serve as Elise's emotional advanced scout, 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.000 to call up her dad and see if he might 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:24.760 be ready, and after all this time, to talk to 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.959 Elise and offer some answers. Given what Elise has told 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:31.920 me about her dad, I can't say I'm optimistic about that. 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.000 But then again, I can't say I'm optimistic about anything. 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.160 Good luck for the rest of your calls. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:39.880 No one's going to call anyway. 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.600 So no, this. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.720 Was a good call in show. And so it comes 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:51.439 to pass that I email Billy. As I await his response, 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.880 I imagine various scenarios. Maybe Billy will treat me like 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.760 a student loan officer. Sorry, sir, you've got the wrong 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.240 he might say. Or perhaps he'll try to convince me 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.079 I have the story all wrong, that Elise and her 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:13.760 mom are the real villains. After a week and a half, 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:17.280 I finally hear back from Billy, and his actual response 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:20.960 is more surprising than any I might have imagined. It's 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:25.880 just a simple note apologizing for the delay. Billy explains 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:28.640 it's the rainy season in the Philippines and it's been 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:32.600 messing with his internet. But he says he really wants 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.400 to talk to me, to be honest with you, He writes, 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:49.000 you are the only hope I have of communicating with Elise. Hello, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:52.160 oh hi, this is Jonathan Goldstein speaking. 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:59.040 Hey Jonathan. It's a terrible evening here again thunder and lightning, 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:04.840 as I told you season. But anyway, so Elise contacted you. 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:11.839 Although Elisa's last memory of her dad was at her 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:16.160 graduation ceremony, Billy has a different final memory, and as 0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:18.520 he describes it, it was one of the most painful 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.360 moments of his life. It was in the midst of 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.080 the separation from Elisa's mom. 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:30.040 I was walking out of the garage carrying a box, 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.360 and you can see straight into the house from the driveway, 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:38.840 and Elise was in the dining room. Well when she 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:44.520 saw me, she darted back into the living room and 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:48.960 kind of hid herself so I couldn't see her. But 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:54.280 I know for a fact that she saw me because 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:55.880 we made eye contact. 0:13:57.960 --> 0:13:59.960 I get that this had to have been painful for Billy, 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.079 But as Elisa's interlocutor, I tell him this isn't about 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.640 his pain. It's about his daughter's pain and her anger. 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:10.680 And if they're to speak, he should be prepared for that, 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.680 I can't imagine that something Billy wants to hear, and 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.479 I'm worried how he'll react. 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:23.440 As far as her feeling anger on her mother's behalf, 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:32.840 that I can assure you is completely understandable. 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:38.000 Once again, Billy has managed to surprise me. 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:44.720 I basically putn't it bluntly shit all over that woman 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:50.440 on many occasions. He was one particular Sunday morning that 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.400 she was a cooking breakfast and the phone rings and 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:58.120 there's a woman on the phone, and the woman says, Hey, 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:03.520 this is Angela. Can I speak to Billy? And my 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:06.720 wife said, well, who are you? And she just openly 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:11.080 older she said, well, I'm his girlfriend. Can you imagine 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.880 a wife getting a own concosation like that on a 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.200 Sunday morning in the middle of breakfast, saying I'm your 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:26.200 husband's girlfriend. If at least broke is that with you? 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.600 I can assure you that everything will word that she 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:35.280 says is accurate, And if it's not a really ugly picture, 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:39.360 she's left something like, because trust me, it's a really 0:15:40.040 --> 0:15:46.520 ugly picture. But there's absolutely nothing that I won't be 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:51.640 completely honest and open about. The honesting that I have 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:57.200 absolutely no problem discussing anything with. 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:02.400 You, hearing everything at least had to say about Billy's 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:06.280 unwillingness to own up his refusal to engage. I was 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:11.640 expecting the worst, but Billy seems genuinely remorseful, apologetic, and 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.840 even eager to hear his daughter out. He tells me 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.280 he kept his distance out of fear that at Least 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.800 didn't want to hear from him at all, But he 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:21.360 thinks about her all the time. 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.600 I don't know if it's because I'm getting older either. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.640 I don't know if it's because I feel like I've 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:35.480 lost my daughter. I don't know what it is, but 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:41.640 I was really excited when I found out that she 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:47.560 had reached help to you to make contact with me, 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:53.840 because to me, that means she wants to get our 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:59.920 relationship back, and that is desperately what I want. 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:27.680 Elise, Hi, how are you nice to meet you? I've 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.320 invited Elise to my office in Brooklyn so that we 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.240 can call her father together. It will be the first 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.520 time in five years that Alise hears Billy's voice. 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.360 How are you feeling very nervous? 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:39.960 You are? 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.840 Do you want some coffee? Nothing calms the Kishkas better 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:47.399 than a nice cup of coffee. Alise declines and we 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.760 settle in for some small talk while I set up 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.560 the call. As we chat, I'm struck by Elise's cultural sensitivity. 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.120 Wasn't it Canada Day? Recently? It was I'd be Canada Day? 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:04.680 Thank you? And I fumble around, incapable of an appropriately 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:09.600 reciprocal well wish. Hmmm. We're three days after Canada Day, 0:18:09.720 --> 0:18:14.160 so that makes it the third, maybe the fourth of July. Naw, 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.280 I got nothing. I tell the Lease about my conversation 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:21.840 with Billy. How remorseful and open to talking he seemed. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:25.399 She's still worried, but says she wasn't even expecting things 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:26.440 to progress this far. 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.840 I'm very surprised he spoke to you. I'm very surprised 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:30.639 he was candid with you. 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:37.800 So that's a positive, right, and that's a change. Yeah, 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.080 So do you want to Should we try this? 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:42.080 Sure? 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:42.880 Make the call? 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:44.240 Yeah. 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:48.679 So it's Monday, six in the evening, so it is 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:54.520 six a m. In the Philippines. It's really yeah, Well 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:55.240 let's try him. 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:05.560 H Yeah. 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:07.560 Hello is this Bill? 0:19:08.680 --> 0:19:08.880 Yes? 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.359 Hi Bill, This is Jonathan Goldstein speaking Hi buddy. 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:14.160 What's going on? 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:20.359 Well, I'm here with Elise he did. 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:25.280 Hi, Hi, honey, how are you? 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:31.560 I I'm good, how are you? Everything is good to end, 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:32.800 that's good. 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:41.640 I'm glad that you were approached Johnson. Any communication that 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.720 we can get I think is really good. 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:51.399 Yeah, I'm sorry it took such a long time. 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:56.960 I just still pay what I understand. You want Gools 0:19:57.000 --> 0:20:01.600 to work German problems. And yeah, things went wrong towards 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:06.760 the end, and yes they're one fault if she shanked. 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.879 Back when we shared a lot of great times. 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.400 But Elise isn't here to talk about the great times. 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.840 She's here to talk about the bad times. In fact, 0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:19.440 she's written up some notes to make sure she doesn't 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:23.240 leave any of her feelings or questions unsaid. The notes 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:26.760 are in her hand, but she isn't looking at them. Instead, 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:28.320 she speaks from the heart. 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:41.240 Okay, I have thought about emailing you back. I've just 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:46.439 been so angry that I didn't think it would be productive. 0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.200 Uh And like. 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:55.320 I have just wanted to like. 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.960 Like yell at you or or cry or cuss you 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:04.639 out for leaving not explaining anything. But I don't feel 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:09.040 that like intense anger anymore. And I am sad that 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:14.159 we don't have a relationship like we used to. But 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:17.919 I feel like every time I let you back in 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:21.119 and I forgive you for whatever has happened before, you 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.080 end up just breaking my heart again. 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:24.199 And I. 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:29.960 Do find it very insulting that you gave another child 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:31.840 my name, my verse and last name. 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:36.000 And I don't know. 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:38.960 I don't know what relationship we're going to have in 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:42.440 the future. I just I had to sort of get 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:46.160 some of this out for any of that to be possible. 0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:57.720 Billy is silent for a while. When he finally does respond, 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:00.960 he skips right over the big question about his leaving 0:22:00.960 --> 0:22:05.040 with that explanation and focuses on the second question instead, 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:07.440 the question of Elisa's name. 0:22:08.800 --> 0:22:17.520 Well, I can tell you that it was her mother 0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:20.960 who loves the name Alice. 0:22:22.119 --> 0:22:25.879 I should have contested and said, no, you know, Leasure, 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:28.240 we think them. But I didn't, at least to be 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:32.600 honest with you, and I should have done. The Filipino 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:38.959 culture and the Filipino thinking is different. I'll give you 0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:46.800 another example. One of your favorite dogs is Charlie. Okay, 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:52.240 I've never owned a German shepherd over here, but we 0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:56.240 had a dog. But because of the stories that I've told, 0:22:56.520 --> 0:23:00.960 what did they call the dog Charlie. 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:03.400 By the look on her face at least doesn't seem 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:07.160 reassured by the fact that like her, Charlie, the beloved 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:12.119 German shepherd from her childhood, had also been replaced. Although 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.920 I haven't been to the Philippines, it feels as though 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.800 Billy is throwing an entire country under the bus to 0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:21.680 save his own hide. In the silence, I try to 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:24.320 bring things back to what I think is Billy's strongest suit, 0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:29.120 his seemingly renewed capacity for repentance. I want at least 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:32.159 to hear what I heard in Billy during our first conversation, 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:35.360 so I try to steer things in that direction. 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:38.520 Bill. 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:47.320 You know you you mentioned feeling regret. What would you 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:50.760 do differently if you had a chance to do things over? 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:57.639 I don't think that the final outcome would change much. 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:04.080 To be honest with you, I should have called or 0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:08.240 a family meeting, and I should have gone over it 0:24:08.320 --> 0:24:18.680 in detail, with times and dates and plans. 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:21.679 A family meeting about leaving your family was not the 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:25.320 do over I was expecting. After having heard the level 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:28.160 of Old Testament shame head express in our first phone call, 0:24:28.640 --> 0:24:31.280 I'm surprised that Billy's now talking in the language of 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:35.600 meetings and launch dates. Alice stares down at the floor. 0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:39.879 She looks at me. Billy's not giving her what she needs, 0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:42.560 so she puts it to him as directly as she. 0:24:42.560 --> 0:24:45.560 Can, Like, you have to understand that you just disappeared 0:24:45.560 --> 0:24:49.800 and I had no context. Like I want to know 0:24:49.920 --> 0:24:52.440 what you were thinking when you left, and like why 0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:53.080 you left? 0:24:55.119 --> 0:24:56.800 So like what happened? 0:24:59.119 --> 0:25:03.879 Well, there are lots of things that I would like 0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:08.479 to explain to you. Is dogging my leaving? 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:18.800 Is that I'm here, I'm listening. If there's anything you 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:19.200 want to. 0:25:19.160 --> 0:25:30.960 Say, Well, there were several several things that happened, Alice. 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:38.879 It's a long story that I would like to explain 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:43.720 to you step by step. Got kind of a really 0:25:43.720 --> 0:25:48.080 busy schedule today. 0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:52.840 Is there any like brief overview? 0:25:55.240 --> 0:25:58.680 Well, yeah, honey, I can answer your questions. 0:25:58.760 --> 0:25:59.960 I have an explanation. 0:26:01.640 --> 0:26:05.639 You know what happened, and I would be more than 0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:09.639 happy will explain it to you in detail. 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:17.600 But then nothing. The conversation goes round and round. Billy 0:26:17.640 --> 0:26:21.560 reassures a Lease that he has explanations, explanations of every 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:25.160 length and level of detail. It's just that he never 0:26:25.200 --> 0:26:27.280 actually shares any more than. 0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:31.040 Happy to do that. Every question that you may. 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:35.200 Have, is there anything you've wanted to say to me? 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:39.960 There won't be a question that you will ask me 0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:41.680 that I won't answer. 0:26:41.880 --> 0:26:43.760 Like right now, you're just telling me that you're going 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:46.000 to tell me, like do you have anything to happen? 0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:52.960 Billy likes to talk about talking about hard things but 0:26:53.040 --> 0:26:57.560 not actually talking about them. Still at least keeps pushing. 0:26:58.400 --> 0:27:01.080 I understand that it's very painful for you, but I. 0:27:02.680 --> 0:27:05.280 There have been so many times when we've just glossed 0:27:05.359 --> 0:27:09.880 over insane things that have happened, crazy things. 0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:18.119 I understand that there's got to be explanations for things, 0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:22.520 support said and actions, support cloton and things that got done. 0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:27.720 And then when all of that is done, you a 0:27:27.840 --> 0:27:32.240 lass act for last question. And I have told her 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:33.520 every single thing. 0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:34.520 That I want to call her. 0:27:38.480 --> 0:27:41.760 Billy's not making any headway talking about the past, so 0:27:41.800 --> 0:27:43.800 he turns the conversation to the future. 0:27:44.640 --> 0:27:49.200 I'm really hoping that before idea, she leave. 0:27:49.080 --> 0:27:52.680 This place and I get to see you that which from. 0:27:52.560 --> 0:27:54.320 More cos. 0:27:55.200 --> 0:27:57.480 I don't want to die that I've seen you with them. 0:27:57.720 --> 0:27:58.600 I really don't. 0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:08.040 Yeah, I don't. I don't want that either, and. 0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:13.640 With that, Alise's hands fall into her lap. As an interlocutor. 0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:16.320 There isn't much for me to do. At least, here's 0:28:16.320 --> 0:28:19.320 what Billy is saying and not saying, and she doesn't 0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:22.680 need any help to understand. So I do the only 0:28:22.720 --> 0:28:26.320 thing I can. I sit beside her, commiserating with raised 0:28:26.320 --> 0:28:30.679 eyebrows and puzzled looks, saying without words, I see the 0:28:30.720 --> 0:28:41.320 same things you do and it's not you. For the 0:28:41.360 --> 0:28:43.959 rest of the call, at least stays quiet and allows 0:28:43.960 --> 0:28:46.840 Billy to talk, though it feels as though he's mostly 0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:47.880 talking to himself. 0:28:49.040 --> 0:28:54.080 Wouldn't be ill place. Don't look backwards anymore. Just don't 0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:56.920 go backwards. There's too much pain back there. 0:28:59.000 --> 0:28:59.760 Don't go back. 0:29:01.040 --> 0:29:06.000 It's just respond that happened back then. But let's move forward. 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:10.200 It's just so painful it hurts. 0:29:10.360 --> 0:29:11.520 It hurts a lot. 0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:17.480 As Billy tries to push away the past while cowering 0:29:17.520 --> 0:29:20.880 from the future, the present takes hold the when Billy 0:29:20.960 --> 0:29:21.760 can't deny. 0:29:22.400 --> 0:29:30.560 I am totally okay. Just wait one minute than one 0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:46.240 the I know I'm totally totally responsible for and so, 0:29:47.480 --> 0:29:51.360 but if there are any other. 0:29:52.720 --> 0:29:57.000 Explanations that I should give to you least you know, 0:29:57.440 --> 0:29:59.000 I'll be more than happy to do that. 0:29:59.720 --> 0:30:03.200 I will be more than happy to spend my evening 0:30:04.080 --> 0:30:05.960 starting to explain that to me. 0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:11.960 Billy promises that that evening he'll send a lease an email, 0:30:12.760 --> 0:30:17.240 an email that will explain everything. But it never arrives, 0:30:17.960 --> 0:30:21.040 not that night, or the next, or any night in 0:30:21.120 --> 0:30:22.000 the months that follow. 0:30:23.280 --> 0:30:25.760 I will email you later today, Okay. 0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:35.840 Lush, Yeah, Okay, Well, LEI thank you. 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:38.520 I really appreciate it. 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:43.760 Okay, Bill, Well, have a good rest of the day. 0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:47.760 Yeah, thanks for thanks for talking, Dun, I appreciate it. 0:30:49.120 --> 0:30:51.719 Okay, I have a great day, honey. 0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:54.920 You too, thank you. 0:30:55.800 --> 0:31:07.800 Bye, Okay, how you doing. 0:31:12.080 --> 0:31:14.240 Once we're off the phone, Elise and I go over 0:31:14.280 --> 0:31:17.640 what just happened. She tells me she felt steamrolled, and 0:31:17.680 --> 0:31:18.920 I tell her that I felt it too. 0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:24.320 I wasn't really sure what I wanted to get out 0:31:24.320 --> 0:31:29.800 of it. I don't think that everyone gets sort of 0:31:31.120 --> 0:31:36.600 equally agreeable, compromised ending, But for a long time I 0:31:36.600 --> 0:31:38.840 felt like the burden of us not having a relationship 0:31:38.960 --> 0:31:41.200 was on me because he would email and I would 0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:43.200 never respond, and that was kind of the end of it. 0:31:44.080 --> 0:31:47.480 And I feel like now that I have tried to 0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:51.640 contact him, Like the burden of us not having whatever 0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:54.280 relationship I think we should have is not as much 0:31:54.320 --> 0:32:01.640 on me. I feel a lot less guilt now. Will 0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:03.720 never be as close as it sounds like he wanted 0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:06.760 us to be. I don't think that's likely, and like 0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:10.880 maybe it's okay that I don't push for that. I 0:32:10.920 --> 0:32:14.520 think he creates his own universe like I lived. I 0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:17.600 was a permanent resident of like Billy world for a 0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:19.600 number of years, and I was glad to get off 0:32:19.600 --> 0:32:22.440 the ride. Like you don't get to live in the university. 0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:25.120 You create and expect it not to affect other. 0:32:24.960 --> 0:32:45.640 People, and other people have been affected. In recent months, 0:32:45.720 --> 0:32:49.120 Elise has been corresponding with a British man named Martin, 0:32:49.880 --> 0:32:52.400 and Martin was able to help Elise answer the question 0:32:52.760 --> 0:32:55.320 of why her father left in a way that Billy 0:32:55.440 --> 0:33:00.480 himself couldn't. Martin believes he's Billy's son, born for Billy 0:33:00.560 --> 0:33:05.479 left England for Chattanooga, so unlike Elise, Martin grew up 0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:09.880 without a father because, like Alise, one day, without warning, 0:33:10.320 --> 0:33:15.000 his father left, moved to another country and started another family. 0:33:16.160 --> 0:33:18.920 And from what Martin is saying, he's not the only one. 0:33:19.640 --> 0:33:22.400 There's another man living in England, he tells her, who 0:33:22.440 --> 0:33:25.560 also believes that Billy is his father. The two of 0:33:25.600 --> 0:33:29.640 them have been trying to reach Billy for years. In fact, 0:33:29.880 --> 0:33:32.840 it turns out that Martin and Elise have brushed against 0:33:32.840 --> 0:33:36.440 each other before, a long time ago, when Elise was 0:33:36.440 --> 0:33:39.840 growing up. She remembers the home phone ringing, usually around 0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:43.000 the holidays, and a young man with her father's accent 0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:46.760 on the line asking to speak to Billy. Back then, 0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:50.640 Billy said Martin was a distant cousin, and all these 0:33:50.720 --> 0:33:54.040 years later, Martin still feels like he's being pushed away. 0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:59.840 He just wants Billy to acknowledge him. In learning about 0:34:00.040 --> 0:34:03.080 Martin and her other possible half brother, how her story 0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:06.400 has repeated itself over and over, Alise has found the 0:34:06.480 --> 0:34:10.319 answer she needed, the answer Billy himself was never able 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.880 to give her. It isn't about her or about Martin 0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:18.520 or anyone else. The reason Billy did what Billy did 0:34:19.200 --> 0:34:31.160 is because that's what Billy does. Martin and the other 0:34:31.200 --> 0:34:34.320 possible half brother are planning to take a DNA test, 0:34:34.640 --> 0:34:37.319 and they'd like a lease to take one too. If 0:34:37.360 --> 0:34:40.439 their DNA matches hers Martin says, it's all the proof 0:34:40.440 --> 0:34:43.600 they'll need. Billy will have to accept them as his own. 0:34:44.960 --> 0:34:46.600 When I talked to her on the phone about it 0:34:46.680 --> 0:34:50.000 later on, Elise says she isn't sure a DNA test 0:34:50.080 --> 0:34:53.040 will give Martin the thing he's looking for, but she 0:34:53.120 --> 0:34:54.040 does want to help. 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:56.839 Knowing how much I wanted to close here, it would 0:34:56.880 --> 0:34:59.480 definitely be good to be able to provide him some. 0:35:01.000 --> 0:35:04.160 So the next time she and Martin speak, she'll offer him. 0:35:04.040 --> 0:35:07.000 This, whatever relationship you have in your head that you 0:35:07.080 --> 0:35:13.520 want with him is probably not possible, and I can 0:35:13.560 --> 0:35:17.799 confirm that you're genetically related, but that doesn't guarantee that 0:35:17.880 --> 0:35:19.960 he will be a presence in your life in a 0:35:20.000 --> 0:35:24.759 way that you want, because he's not able to do 0:35:24.800 --> 0:35:25.239 that for me. 0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:32.400 In other words, Elise will tell Martin, I see the 0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:42.399 same things you do, and it's not you. A few 0:35:42.400 --> 0:35:45.000 months after our call with her father, Alise and I 0:35:45.120 --> 0:35:48.120 check back in. She tells me she still hasn't heard 0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:52.480 from Billy, but she suspects that around the holidays, like always, 0:35:52.960 --> 0:35:56.359 she'll get that three sentence email, and when she does, 0:35:56.880 --> 0:36:01.359 this time she'll write him back. Whatever holiday it is, 0:36:02.040 --> 0:36:06.080 she'll write, hope, You're well, Love Police. 0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:49.319 Now that the Fernentures return into its goodwill home, now 0:36:49.360 --> 0:36:54.160 that the last month's rant is skiming with the damage, 0:36:54.239 --> 0:37:04.880 the pos take this moment to deserve flee. Traps felt 0:37:04.920 --> 0:37:06.520 around for far too. 0:37:08.840 --> 0:37:17.400 From things accident Lee. This episode of Heavyweight was produced 0:37:17.400 --> 0:37:20.759 by me Jonathan Goldstein along with Ba Parker, Khalila Holt, 0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:23.800 and Stevie Lane. The show is edited by Jorge Just 0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:28.440 Special thanks to Emily Condon, Kaitlin Roberts, Alex Goldman, Caitlyn Kenney, 0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:32.880 Alex Bloomberg, and Jackie Cohen. Bobby Lord mixed the episode 0:37:32.920 --> 0:37:36.760 with original music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson, Michael Hurst, 0:37:37.040 --> 0:37:40.160 and Bobby Lord. Additional music credits can be found on 0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:44.759 our website, gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight. Our theme song 0:37:44.880 --> 0:37:47.360 is by The Weaker Bands courtesy of Epitaph Records, and 0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:50.200 our ad music is by Hailey Shaw. Follow us on 0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:54.160 Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at Heavyweight at gimletmedia 0:37:54.200 --> 0:37:57.680 dot com. You can listen for free on Spotify or 0:37:57.960 --> 0:38:01.280 wherever you get your podcasts. Will be gone for the holidays, 0:38:01.320 --> 0:38:04.640 but back with a new episode in December. In the meantime, 0:38:05.000 --> 0:38:06.960 we'll leave you with something you didn't even know you 0:38:07.040 --> 0:38:11.280 were waiting for. This year's Thanksgiving song by heavyweight audio 0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:14.800 engineer Bobby Lord. It's a special treat to share with 0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:17.879 the whole family once you're tired of talking to each other. 0:38:18.640 --> 0:38:26.359 Take it away, Bob, Jonathan Jonathan Boldstein. 0:38:26.960 --> 0:38:36.880 It is Buldsteine old Buldstein, Boldstein, Bullstein, Buldsteine, bold Stein, 0:38:37.080 --> 0:38:39.640 bold Star, Bullstop, bullstops. 0:38:41.640 --> 0:38:47.760 I don't listen to podcasts rapidly becoming Tony Shalou. 0:38:48.080 --> 0:38:51.920 I think bullshineld Stop, bold Stop bold. 0:38:51.680 --> 0:38:53.680 Stock, because. 0:38:56.160 --> 0:39:00.400 Shine, we've wasted our lives become 0:39:04.480 --> 0:39:08.239 We've wasted our lives becoming s