Counsell slams Ohtani rule + Katie Woo on Edwin Diaz’s elbow surgery

00:00:03
Speaker 1: Dodgers' territory host and the athletics Katie were joining us right now. Great to see you, Katie, and I'm rocking the Dodgers Territory shirt, which you can get at Dodgers Territory Shop dot com.

00:00:14
Speaker 2: Uh, let's get right into it.

00:00:15
Speaker 1: So Edwin Diaz unfortunately is going to be down for multiple months, and we want to get the details on it.

00:00:21
Speaker 2: I'm going to preface the question this.

00:00:22
Speaker 1: Way for you, Katie, What is it like to cover that over the last couple of weeks, because everybody from the outside looking in was like, I think something's wrong, and I'm sure you guys knew too, but then the team has to play at koy until they can announce everything.

00:00:34
Speaker 2: So what was it like?

00:00:37
Speaker 3: Honestly, guys, one, great to see you, Scott, love the shirt.

00:00:40
Speaker 4: AJ.

00:00:40
Speaker 3: My eyes are deceiving me. I just can't believe that you're on the show.

00:00:44
Speaker 5: Wow. But no, let's talk a.

00:00:46
Speaker 4: Little bit about at least he's not actually here, he's.

00:00:49
Speaker 3: Ai AI AJ got it, it goes right through.

00:00:52
Speaker 5: It was weird.

00:00:53
Speaker 3: It was weird, right, guys. Like what struck me about how unorthodox the situation was was that ended up loose bodies in the elbow, and we were told throughout the last week the Dodgers as well, that it was just some kind of knee pain that didn't even require imaging. And as this kind of unfolded, the thing that stood out to me was the drop in below from Diaz, because yes, you know it's early, it's April, but as a closer, if you see the drop in below like that does kind of race and red flags even that early in the season. But when Dave Roberts went out and said, we've talked to Edwin, it's a knee thing. It's not we're going to require imaging. We're just gonna give him a few days, that to me made a ton of sense. Why push your closer in the first opening weeks of the season when he didn't necessarily need him. Then he comes out on Sunday Velo immediately I think he pumped in a fastball that was under ninety three. Very unlike Edwin, Diaz isn't able to record an out against the Rockies, and Dave Roberts said, I'm paraphrasing here, it just didn't look right and it was concerning. Then he finds out or the team finds out that it's loose bodies in the elbow, and Edwin Diaz had not communicated anything about the elbow up until that time, so guessing around the kind of here's what we're hearing from the player, here's what we think is going on with the team. I think that just goes to show that communication is a two way street. And if Edwin wasn't communicating about the pain and his elbow, there wasn't much the Dodgers could do. They rested him, they they gave him plenty of time, even though it was a very awkward timing with the Mets in town last week and now here they are probably you know, not the most ideal scenario, obviously, being without Edwin Diaz for months. Maybe he's coming back in the second half. It's a complicated situation.

00:02:25
Speaker 5: Katie.

00:02:26
Speaker 6: Before I get to my question, let me just be the first one to say congratulations to you.

00:02:31
Speaker 5: On Man.

00:02:33
Speaker 6: We won't talk about it because there's it's not the right place, so this is too big of an announcement for us to do on the air.

00:02:40
Speaker 5: So congratulations, oh my gosh for me being on the show show with you. Thank you.

00:02:48
Speaker 6: And also, Katie, let me just as it's a she got it.

00:02:53
Speaker 5: She took her a while, but she caught on.

00:02:55
Speaker 6: Had We had a X back and forth about a picture she posted on Instagram and I was like, congraduate. Yeah, we won't get into it, but what I want to know is loose bodies? Does that mean bone spurs? Does I mean there's like little things floating around in there? And did like something happen overnight when he got to Colorado. He landed and he bumped his elbow and he's like, oh, I can't pitch, Like where does this come from?

00:03:17
Speaker 5: What does it mean?

00:03:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's interesting because the Dodgers are certainly trying to find out. You know, Edwin Diaz pitched in the WBC. He ramped up quickly. We talked to him. I talked to him before the team went on the road about just how was the ramp up period through spring training? He said he had no issue, felt no problems. Sometimes when you just throw hard, these things pop up. I will say. When the Dodgers announced it was a loose body, is that to me? Obviously? Me and surgery. So I was like, well, in minutes, we're going to find out that he's undergoing surgery. Because loose bodies don't just go away. There's something that have to be removed. It's a queen up procedure. Again. They're looking for maybe a turn in the second half earlier, but it's going to be at least two to three months, probably closer to three for that timetable to return. And I think it just again. The perplexity of this is that for so long the team was like, Okay, he's saying that his knees is bothering him, but not to the point where it needs imaging. He's just a little tired, let's rust him. And then all of a sudden, he comes out on Sunday. The numbers don't look right, the pitches don't look right, the below's down, and they say there has to be something else, and Edwin says, it's my elbow. It's bothering me. So they find the loose bodies. He's going to undergo surgery tomorrow and the Dodgers will hope for speedy recovery and that he's again ready post All Star break. But certainly a big blow for this Dodgers team. We've talked a lot about the depth that they've had in their system throughout their roster. The one area where they don't seem to have a lot is late end, back end of the relief, and of course they go out and get a closer for this reason. Now they're without him and it's back to closer by committee for Dave Roberts.

00:04:45
Speaker 4: Who do you think the next person up is going to be for Dave Roberts Because Tayner Scott had success, has had success this year, but in that closure role in LA he didn't have success. So is it going to be by committee where Okay, this is the best spot for you in a ninth or is Dave Roberts more of a manager that's gonna say, Okay, this is gonna be my closer because Blake trying into the best or VESSI is the best in the ninth I don't care what the matchup is.

00:05:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dave Roberts talked about that yesterday. He said he's not going to name a traditional closer. He will go back to closer by committee, very similar to how he managed most of twenty twenty five when Tanner Scott started to struggle, and it's he called it a luxury and it's true. Having Edwin Diaz allowed him to lock down the ninth and work backwards in games, so he was able to match up the leverage lanes with specific relievers. We've seen much better results from Tanner, Scott, and up until Sunday, Blake Trinon as well. He got roughed up really for the first time this season against Colorado, and part of that one is the execution, of course from these pitchers, but also because Dave Roberts has been able to match up the leverage lanes based on what each reliever's strength is. Because he knew in a safe situation who his guy in the ninth would be, he no longer has that luxury, which means he's going to have have to pair the leverage based on game situation. And you guys know how these games work. There's no way to predict that your biggest spot in the game could be in the seventh. Sometimes it could be in the eighth, could be in the ninth. It could also be in the sixth. So you have to kind of have a flexible rotation with your high end leverage guys to be able to match up with leverage. And I wonder if that's going to impact the early success we saw with Scott with trying and Alex Vessi has been a lights out. You can make the argument their most reliable reliever so far this season. But it definitely gets much more complex in terms of game strategy because you're no longer working backwards or able to work backwards from the ninth. You have to patch the game together as you go. That's going to significantly change how Dave Roberts and pitching coach Mark Pryor navigate these games.

00:06:42
Speaker 1: There are more than seventy thousand events listed on the sea Geek app, So if you're looking to do basically anything this spring or summer, there's one place to go.

00:06:51
Speaker 6: No seekek has all the concerts, baseball games, World Cup tickets, whatever you need is on cke. Trust me, I'm going to be hitting some concerts festivals this summer. I'm gonna be looking for see Geek.

00:07:03
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see Aj adding the best tickets he can for concerts and festivals.

00:07:09
Speaker 2: We'll get plenty of pictures there.

00:07:10
Speaker 1: But also when he's looking, what he does is he looks for when he's going to say an arena for a concert, a green dot meaning he's got a good deal in a good spot.

00:07:18
Speaker 2: That's where Seakeek helps you out.

00:07:19
Speaker 1: With over thirty five million download Seekeek is the number one rated ticketing app. And of course we have the code for the FT network Territory ten for ten percent off your next set of tickets at Sea Geek. That's ten percent off any tickets with the promo code Territory one zero. Make sure you click the link in the description to download the app and have the code automatically added to your account so you can use it later.

00:07:42
Speaker 2: Props to see Geek.

00:07:44
Speaker 4: All right, Well, during that time when Edwin was kind of my knee, oh wait, no, it's my elbow, he threw a bullpen and wasn't available the one day Tanner Scott had to come in. No other team has that luxury except for the Dodgers because they get an extra pitcher. Seeing what Greg Craig Council said about the Otani rule from the Dodgers doug out, we saw Dave Roberts' remarks or or reply to Craig Council. Does it look like it's fair for other teams or is it just a Otani rule that only the Dodgers will ever be able to take?

00:08:20
Speaker 5: Take? You know, get some advantage from.

00:08:24
Speaker 3: You know, one, I was surprised that these comments were coming out. Now, this rule has been in place for multiple seasons now, So when I first saw the headline, I thought this was kind of like regurgitated, brought back up from seasons prior. And then I saw it was very relevant, and I said, oh, okay, that's a little strange. And I think the Dodgers are kind of under scrutiny regardless no matter what they do because of the team that they are. They're spending habits, you know, they just keep winning. But if you're looking at the Otani rule in general, and if it's fair, you have one player doing something in baseball that nobody else can, so making a rule for that, I don't really get the issue. I mean I don't really from we're really thinking about it. I don't understand the problem. And having this extra rule that seems to only benefit the Dodgers, I think that's the wrong phrasing. I think this team or this rule benefits whatever team has show heeo Tani. So the fact that this is coming out when this rule has been in place again for multiple years, I don't quite understand. Certainly, everyone's entitled to their opinion. But to me, I mean, this is a guy who's taking the mound once every seven days based on the schedule that they have for him. But he's still hitting in every other game. He's for the first time in almost five years, he did not d h on one of his start days. Like, this is a guy who's fully taking advantage of the two way responsibilities that he signed up to play. So I don't really see the issue with the with the rule. I'm just surprised more unless the timing coming out of it.

00:09:43
Speaker 6: Yeah, but he couldn't pitch every I'm not going to get into he couldn't pitch every seven days if they didn't have an extra.

00:09:48
Speaker 5: Anyways, we're going to do a whole segment on total Homer though we already knew this.

00:09:58
Speaker 4: Though it's amazing, where's Jordan Walker?

00:10:04
Speaker 3: Time only been a Jordan Blaloker enthusiast and you guys know this. And if it meant me leaving Saint Louis to see some success, I'll take that anytime. This team is doing just fine without me. Maybe I'm the problem.

00:10:17
Speaker 5: Leave him alone, Leave them alone, Katie.

00:10:19
Speaker 6: But anyway, Homer continue, you mentioned that only pitches once every seven days. How long is Rokiye Suzaki going to get to pitch once every seventh day? With the way he's pitching, is there a chance we see him back in the bullpen or are they just going to continue with this experiment forever?

00:10:35
Speaker 3: You know, then we're not going to see roky Sasaki in the bullpen anytime soon. General manager Brandon Gomes just asked if that was a possibility with Diaz being out, and he gave a very clear, succinct answer, a one word no. And the Dodgers have been very adamant about their plans for roki You think about his age and his talent. He's twenty three, twenty four years old, has such a high ceiling, such a pedigree coming over from Japan, and I know the numbers don't back it up. I know he is. The performance has not been good. He has throwing enough strikes. The command that continues to be an issue, and he's not getting worse in games, but he's also not getting better. He's kind of stagnated, and that's not what you want to see either. Still, the Dodgers do have a luxury based on their starting arms in the rotation to be able to run Sasaki out, And when you think about the long term goal, why would you limit someone who was in his early twenties with a high potential to the bullpen when you have the luxury the availability to run him out still once a week and build him up to see what he could be as a starter. The Dodgers aren't necessarily struggling to win games. They're fifteen and six, so they have the ability to go out and say, okay, we need to do once a week, be able to see what we have out of him. Can he build forward, can he find some progress? There's no need to put in the bullpen. That's I think a very short sighted decision for a team that obviously has long term aspirations of continuing to be a dynasty in this sport. If it gets to the time with Blake Snell, who is going to start a rehassignment, maybe as early as tomorrow, based on the weather, could be back by mid May, then maybe you're having a different conversation. But the Dodgers have not waivered, not once, on their belief in Roki Sasaki's staying in the rotation. That is not going to change unless he becomes unserviceable. That hasn't been the case. I'm not saying it's been great, because it hasn't, but it hasn't gotten to the point where you just can't throw him out there once a week. The Dodgers still want to see and give him as much leeway as possible before they make that decision.

00:12:21
Speaker 4: You know, the great place to learn how to pitch and learn how to get a third pitch and learn how to throw strikes Triple A. Do they send him to triple A? Because your comment was all and Dave Roberts' comment was the easy no answer was to the bullpen. Do you see them moving him to triple A because the fear of what that looks like for other Japanese pitchers that come over to the Dodgers, or is that also off the table?

00:12:47
Speaker 3: That to me is a more fair question than the bullpen. But I don't think they're there yet. One thing, Justin Erbluski had another phenomenal start yesterday in course field, so that definitely counts a little bit more. And he's kind of forcing the Dodgers' hands on where his long term role is gonna be. They believe he's going to be a starter, but they've been using him as a hybrid six man option, and if Justin Erbuski continues to post like he has been, it certainly ups the ante on Roki Sasaki. But again it comes down to the pedigree and the high ceiling that they believe that Roki has. So I don't think they're at the decision yet where they are maybe contemplating a move to triple A. That probably won't happen until again, Blake Snell becomes close to being activated. But it will be a wait and see process with that, because while the Dodgers have I think probably the best starting pitching depth rivaling the Milwaukee Brewers in the National League, they're not going to throw out seven starters in their rotation. Something's got to go. The easier thing to do would be to have Robuski kind of revert back to that hybrid situation, but again, his last two starts have been phenomenal. He's at fifteen Indians. I think he's allowed maybe as an era under two on the year. That's going to force the Dodgers hand to make a decision. But they're not there yet.

00:13:54
Speaker 5: Guys.

00:13:54
Speaker 3: They're gonna have multiple weeks before Blake Snell is ready so they're going to write it out until they have to make that decision.

00:14:00
Speaker 4: Like the Dodgers, And I know you haven't followed them for years, but do you feel like they make decisions on pitching specifically with like Robleski eventually when they have to make that decision to move him to the bullpen or leave him in a rotation. The fact that he doesn't strike out enough guys. Do the Dodgers only look at the result of wins, but he's got nine strikeouts in twenty four innings. Is that a product of Robleski being a different type of pitcher or does he need to morph into this Tyler Glass now ten strikeouts a game type of pitcher and not go seven or eight innings.

00:14:35
Speaker 3: That's such a great point, and I'm glad you brought that up, because Justin Robleski, when you look at the rest of the Dodgers rotation, doesn't have the swing and miss or strikeout stuff. But that doesn't mean that he's not in the zone. Justin Erbuski is relentless in the strike zone, and that's maybe why you're not seeing a lot of strikeouts, because he challenges pictures or challenges hitters excuse me with the first, second, third pitches of an a VT where he's not necessarily working to a strikeout count. He said, I'm going to hammer as many strikes as possible in the zone to you, and you're gonna put something in play, and the defense behind me, which again is one of the best in the National League, is going to get the out. So it's a different way of pitching. It doesn't mean it's any less efficient. It doesn't look like Yamamoto or a Tani or Glass now coming out and just blowing doors pass guys, but he's not any less aggressive. I think this method of pitching works for Lbuski, especially as he continues to fine tune his arsenal. He's been talking to Yama Moto about adding a splitter. He did that a few times in his start on Monday. So I wouldn't say that he's not looking for more swing and miss. I think every pitcher is looking for that as we see the game kind of rely on that more and more. But he's found a way to be He's found a way to be effective based on what he's good at, which is just having this relentless attitude and hammering the zone and opposing hitters have not really been able to work significant a bats against him, and it's worked in his favor. It's allowed him to go deep in games again with the bullpen kind of up in the air without Dias Right now, Dave Roberts will certainly take any one of his starters going seven to eight innings each time.

00:15:58
Speaker 6: Who's the Dodgers' MVP offen right now? Is it Andy pa Has or is it Max Munsey sneaky having a big year so far?

00:16:09
Speaker 3: Sneak, You're right, And we've talked so much about Andy pa Has because he kind of started the season on fire. He had the best average in baseball for the first two three weeks of the season. And Max Munsey has talked a lot about coming in past this offseason. He cut out bread, which respect I could never and was able to drop a significant amount of weight and just get into shape. And he's talked a lot about since his surgery and the injury that he had a few seasons ago with that elbow, about how he didn't feel comfortable with his swing, and the conversations we've had with him so far this season. Post game, he said he feels that he's in a much better place, and these numbers are backing it up. He's already had two multi homer games this season. And when you look at how deep the Dodgers lineup is the fact that you have Max Munsey in kind of the second half of that lineup being able to produce like any other team's cleanup hitter. Yeah, Los Angeles will certainly take that. And this is exciting for Max Munsey, who works really hard to be a staple in that Dodgers lineup. And I think he's kind of underrated in terms of the game itself because of his teammates and who he plays with. But when you're looking at what munths he can do along with Andy pa has and let's not forget about Dalton Rushing, who has seemed to homer literally every time he's up, the Dodgers have a lot of depth. It doesn't have to be just Otani and Tucker and Freddie Freeman carrying the load in the top half. They don't have Mookie Bets. They haven't had him for a couple of weeks, and the fact that they've been able to pick right up whether offens is and you haven't really noticed Mookie's lack of production because he hasn't been there. I think that says everything you need to know about this Dodgers team. They're deep, They've had some severe injuries, some big ones, no Mookie Bets, no Edwin Diaz, and they've still been able to be just fined. So a lot of that is a testament to guys like Andy PA has Max Menzi and Dalton rushing, hely.

00:17:48
Speaker 5: Rushing, seven homers, twenty seven at bets.

00:17:50
Speaker 6: Just definitely. And by the way, can we get somebody on in front of Max? He's got eight homers and nine RBIs Katie, can you tell somebody to get on base for him?

00:18:00
Speaker 3: I'll do that.

00:18:01
Speaker 5: I got you perfect. Well, wait are you in San Francisco? Are they playing in San Francisco?

00:18:06
Speaker 3: I am in San Francisco.

00:18:09
Speaker 5: Welcome home.

00:18:10
Speaker 2: Wait one more on the way out.

00:18:12
Speaker 1: I know this is after that series, but how do you think the Dodger Stadium is.

00:18:16
Speaker 2: Going to be for Pete crow Armstrong?

00:18:18
Speaker 1: Do you think those seats as close as possible to him are going to be pricey?

00:18:24
Speaker 3: So I completely forgot about the PCA comments, and I expect him to be received very loudly at Dodger Stadium on Friday Dodger fans are a very passionate bunch. They don't forget comments like that. So, uh, I I expect I expect Pete crow Armstrong to know that he's in Dodger Stadium first, first at.

00:18:41
Speaker 4: Bat, his second at bat, his second at back.

00:18:45
Speaker 5: I don't show up for the first at bat.

00:18:47
Speaker 2: Oh what crat?

00:18:50
Speaker 1: Now we're not gonna be able to do a show from there because they're gonna it's gonna be the same problem here.

00:18:53
Speaker 2: I was just trying to that's what question.

00:18:57
Speaker 5: Said.

00:18:58
Speaker 6: I know, I know, Katie. What picture did you take down behind you so you could come on today?

00:19:03
Speaker 3: My grandmother had this like gigantic scroll, but I was like, wait, this has to go sole me take it.

00:19:11
Speaker 5: Shout out woo Grandma.

00:19:14
Speaker 3: That's right.

00:19:16
Speaker 5: The scroll, the scroll of the scroll, the scroll of.

00:19:20
Speaker 2: Do Katie, You're great, enjoy it out there. Thank you so much.

00:19:24
Speaker 3: You got it, guys. I'll talk to you soon. Bye, AJ talk soon.

00:19:27
Speaker 5: Congrats, Katie.

00:19:29
Speaker 1: Dodger's territory, Katie, Alana, Clint, the Power Trio, you know what to do. Support for today's episode comes from Square and they've got big news. During squares Biannual Releases event, they launched a wave of innovative new tools to help local businesses run faster, smarter, and more profitably.

00:19:47
Speaker 2: Square is awesome.

00:19:48
Speaker 1: Around Orlando, where AJ and I live, we go to the farmers' markets around town. I go to the one near Lake Iola. It's awesome. I use Square to pay with my phone. I get the receipt right away.

00:19:57
Speaker 2: It's great.

00:19:58
Speaker 6: And so many businesses, not just small busines, has uses. So many restaurants and businesses I walk into, not only in Orlando, but all over the country have these and you just use your credit card, pops out, or receipt emails it right to you. It's so fast, it's so efficient, it's so hassle free. It's one of the great things that you have going.

00:20:15
Speaker 1: Square launched its most powerful tools yet, designed to give local businesses a competitive edge without the complexity. If you're ready to sell smarter, run faster and stress less right now, you can get up to two hundred dollars off Square hardware at Square dot com slash go slash foul. That's Square dot com slash go slash foul. Run your business smarter with Square. Get started today.

00:20:41
Speaker 2: This is truly the definition of the hot corner. Segment.

00:20:44
Speaker 1: Craig Council does not give much to the media. He's pretty low key, but he was bringing it and the Cubs and Dodgers are about to meet up this weekend. Craig Counsel is not a fan of the Otani rule. Hold the Athletic on Monday. I've never understood it. It's an offensive rule. Essentially, it's a rule to help offense more than anything, if you ask me. And then there's one team that's allowed to carry basically one of both, and he gets special consideration, which is probably the most bizarre rule for one team. Dodgers manager Dave Roberts bit back quote. The thing is, it certainly benefits us because we have the player. We're more than willing for other teams to go out and find a player who can do both.

00:21:26
Speaker 2: He's an exception because he's an exceptional player. It is what it is.

00:21:30
Speaker 6: Pick a side, Okay, sho he Atani is probably the best baseball player we've ever seen pitching and hitting combo.

00:21:38
Speaker 5: Best player ever, best player ever.

00:21:40
Speaker 6: I don't know that there's many people that can argue that. As far as being able to pitch, throw one hundred hit, hit fifty homers, steal fifty bases in one yard.

00:21:48
Speaker 5: All that comebine.

00:21:50
Speaker 6: There's one of those guys in the history of baseball. Okay, Craig Council's point, I have one. See why because it gives them an extra pitcher, and there are rules that say you only get thirteen pitchers. They get a fourteenth pitcher. This allows them to give guys extra day's rest, manipulate the roster a little bit differently because technically, even though they only have twenty six players, they have an extra pitcher and they're able to use an extra pitcher. There's no way to fix this unless you say, shohe has to count as a pitcher, and then you can add an extra position player, which nobody even cares about. If you have to add an extra position player, nobody cares. It's the picture because every team is mandated you have to have thirteen pitchers because othero's teams that would love that fourteen fifteen pitchers, I promise you if they could. But the Dodgers are the only one that can do this. And as far as Dave Roberts point, and we love you, Doc, there's one guy that can do this.

00:22:51
Speaker 5: There's been guys that have tried it. But now to get.

00:22:53
Speaker 6: To the threshold to be able to use the rule, you basically have to burn a year as a team of a guy to get to that point. And there's not many of these guys out there. I mean, the guy for the Rays, try to Brandon.

00:23:06
Speaker 2: McKay, Brendan McKay, McKay, he tried it.

00:23:10
Speaker 6: Brooks Keishnik back in the day was a guy who would have done it, but he was more of a reliever.

00:23:14
Speaker 2: Loreentzen did.

00:23:15
Speaker 5: Lorenzon did a little, but the problem is these guys don't hit well enough.

00:23:19
Speaker 6: Or pitch well enough to justify a team that is going to try and probably compete to basically have to lose one or the other per year, and that's where you get kind of stuck.

00:23:31
Speaker 1: I liked when Lorenzen's agent was pushing that for him. He was like, hey, you could let him hit the qualifier. And just to add what that is to qualify as a two way player, you must do the following either the current season or any of the previous two seasons. You need to pitch twenty MLB innings as a starter or a reliever. And to me, that's a big difference too, because if you're a starter, it's much easier to accomplish that, And you must start twenty MLB games as a position player or a DH with at leapt at least three he played appearances in those games. One other caveat because this started in twenty twenty Kratz, it's this is not a new rule. It's just getting a lot more attention. It was twenty two when it started. Yes, okay, well it started when Otani was with the Angels, like this popped up. Okay, this rule has existed for many years. Now he happens to be on a team that's very good and gets a lot more attention. Nobody cared about the rule initially when it was coming out, or at least there wasn't as much buzz. The one other thing you can make a complaint out is that in twenty twenty four, MLB said, wait, hold on, we're changing the itinerary In the previous season is when you have to qualify.

00:24:42
Speaker 2: Nope, no, now.

00:24:43
Speaker 1: It's in the previous two seasons is when you have to qualify. This was after a condition with his elbow surgery, So you can certainly make a case that now you are cherry picking the rule to one player at.

00:24:57
Speaker 5: Cause who can qualify? Right? Trust me, teams have tried crush. You know.

00:25:01
Speaker 6: Those teams try this all the time. They want to find these guys. They don't exist. Nolan mcclan couldn't hit good enough. He's more valuable as a pitcher. There's one of these guys any probably ever, I mean, Babe Ruth whatever, Babe Ruth was not as good as show Tani at both hitting and pitching.

00:25:18
Speaker 5: I'm sorry. He was a better hitter. That's why he became a hitter.

00:25:21
Speaker 1: And if you want the league to start enforcing this, try to find more two way players. Is this rule going to create that? Or do you really need to start this in a different way?

00:25:31
Speaker 5: What do you mean, like like, hey.

00:25:33
Speaker 1: We want to we want to try and create incentives in advantage.

00:25:36
Speaker 5: Actually discourage to discourage. It's so hard to get to the thresholds.

00:25:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you have a player that actually is Otani, you're gonna come up and you're gonna hit the thresholds in the season, you know, and then you're good to go.

00:25:50
Speaker 2: It's it doesn't take. But the first season you don't get the extra you're not down a player.

00:25:55
Speaker 5: You're down a pitcher. Well, because you're going down a pitcher.

00:25:58
Speaker 2: Well, you're going with a six man rotation, so down the.

00:26:01
Speaker 5: Pitch, you're down a pitcher. Because the Dodgers have fourteen.

00:26:06
Speaker 1: You're down a pitcher compared to the Dodgers. You're not down to pitcher compared to everyone else.

00:26:10
Speaker 5: That's the point. That's why Craig Council was complaining. But that's the whole point. That's the whole point to the complaint.

00:26:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, But the point is then if okay, if the next otany comes up on the Cubs after how long does it take to qualify for that?

00:26:21
Speaker 2: Not that long, right, But.

00:26:22
Speaker 5: You got to have a team that's willing to let a guy do it. And that's the problem.

00:26:25
Speaker 6: Most teams that are gonna have this type of player are trying to usually compete, and so they don't want to use lose a roster spot.

00:26:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you have no time, you're gonna do that anyway, So quickly he qualifies. How long does that take?

00:26:37
Speaker 5: Yeah, you can't.

00:26:37
Speaker 6: You can't do it in the middle of the year. If someone qualifies, you automatically get an extra roster spot.

00:26:41
Speaker 4: Yes, so at least not no, it says it says the two previous seasons, so they won't qualify for the next year.

00:26:48
Speaker 5: Yeah, must see.

00:26:49
Speaker 1: The following either the current season or any of the prior to seasons.

00:26:52
Speaker 2: So what happens is, let me just so.

00:26:54
Speaker 6: The why wouldn't the team just designate a guy as a pitcher hitter and then get them twenty innings like boom bang pal in the first like month, and then they get an extra pitcher.

00:27:03
Speaker 2: That's what we talk.

00:27:04
Speaker 5: No, No, that doesn't make sense.

00:27:06
Speaker 4: He has to play in twenty games. He has to be he has to play in twenty games where he gets three at bats per game. So you're cooking, you're cooking a month worth of games at your DH spot to be able to get an extra pitcher.

00:27:20
Speaker 2: Correct.

00:27:20
Speaker 1: So that's why the Michael Lorenzen part was like, hey, dude, if you're on a crappy team like this year with the Rockies, why don't you just spend a month qualifying. I mean, he hits the innings in five seconds, but he'd have to play in twenty games, which you can do in about a month and be a DH or I guess an outfield.

00:27:40
Speaker 5: Yeah, but there's other people they think can hit better. That's the problem.

00:27:42
Speaker 6: I understand, Like that's the problem. There's other guys that can hit better than Michael Lorenzen.

00:27:46
Speaker 2: Okay, but but like if the not worth it.

00:27:49
Speaker 6: To them, you have to have a guy that's really good at hitting and really good at pitching.

00:27:54
Speaker 1: If you're like out of it, don't you think it might be worth it to just kind of challenge the rule And then at the trade deadline you're like, hey, you can get Michael Lorenzen, and he automatically enables you to because.

00:28:04
Speaker 6: Teams don't want to just give up the season Scott okay, or or.

00:28:10
Speaker 1: Giving up the season before. I mean, we have the Rockies, the teams that aren't good.

00:28:14
Speaker 4: So the Rockies are going to go to Hunter Goodman and be like, Hunter, I know you you usually d H when you're not playing, when you're not catching, So we're going to give those at bets to Michael Lorenz and so that we can have another pitcher in our bullpen that has a six E R because we don't change anything up with our pitching. No, like, oh, hey, hey, I know TJ. I know you've been doing really great playing first, and you know you can d H sometimes too. If Hunter plays first, but no, don't worry about it, like it's not gonna happen.

00:28:44
Speaker 5: They're not. They're not nearly as good. There's no pictures.

00:28:47
Speaker 4: I saw Michael Lorenzen hit home runs in back to back games against us when we when I played for the Brewers and he was at the Reds, like we were like, oh my gosh, how's this guy doing this. I saw Madison Bumgardner hit plenty of home runs. Neither of them are better hitters than whoever the heck else you're gonna put out there at DH just to get an extra This is Craig Council said this, and this is how twenty nine other managers feel in the game. He's the only one that had the guts to say it, which I'm surprised because Craig rarely says anything but every all twenty nine other managers think the same thing. But you don't want to. You don't want to butt up against old major League Baseball. They catered to this rule. This is a catered to rule. And even in Dave Roberts his answer to it, his rebuttal to it, he agreed it's an advantage.

00:29:42
Speaker 5: Here's the thing.

00:29:43
Speaker 6: Position players are only allowed to pitch in certain situations like up eight or down eight. Right, So you have to designate this guy as a pitcher on your roster.

00:29:58
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, so you're saying, could a team try and pull off enough position player innings or something to qualify.

00:30:06
Speaker 5: You see what I'm saying. But this guy has to be designated as a picture.

00:30:10
Speaker 2: See that seems I mean, not worse. They're both difficult.

00:30:13
Speaker 1: You need a real two way player, trust me, because there are no are there any in the pipe real?

00:30:19
Speaker 6: No, No, Hunter Green, No, couldn't hit Golan McLain, couldn't. I love Jack Kaglione and Sean Michael. Youre, we all know how we feel about you. But I watch every Florida Gator baseball game and I've said this to Jack to his face.

00:30:35
Speaker 4: He ain't a picture. He ain't a picture just because you throw hard. I said, I told Jack that to his face.

00:30:42
Speaker 5: We laughed. I think we laughed about it on this show. Yes we did.

00:30:45
Speaker 6: I was like, dude, thank god, you weren't a picture. I watch your act.

00:30:49
Speaker 5: As a picture.

00:30:49
Speaker 1: This is the one part, like part of me is like yeah, you know, because of his unique situation. The other parts, like well, if we're saying, oh, get your own show, that's not happening.

00:30:57
Speaker 6: No, there's none. I think college there's some. But if you're good enough to do both, they first of all, they usually make you pick one because but also, there's one guy that's been able to do this ever since Baby Ruth.

00:31:12
Speaker 5: Honestly since bath It's.

00:31:15
Speaker 1: And Babe Ruth doesn't count. The game and the life totally different. Right, It's not that it doesn't count, but to do the comparison stupid. So okay, the conclusion.

00:31:23
Speaker 5: Is Craig Counsels.

00:31:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, they get an edge and everybody.

00:31:28
Speaker 1: Next time Shotani's a free agent, someone should have offered him a billion dollars because actually he would have made it back for your endorsement deals.

00:31:34
Speaker 2: Thanks everyone,