Late-Round Perspectives: Nick Ercolano

00:00:00
Speaker 1: Nick R. Kawana is the owner and creator of bdge Media, the first fantasy football lifestyle media brand. He's a fantasy football analyst, a creative content marketer, and he probably plays more NFL trivia related games than you do. These are his Late Round perspectives. Hey guys, Two things before we get into this week's interview. First, I know this podcast feed doesn't always have swearing in it, but there is some of that language in this episode. If you're listening with young kids, you don't want them to hear it, Hit pause, come back later. Second, remember to check out Underdog Fantasy. You can play tons of bestball contests over there right now, and you can do so with a very special offer. Just head to Underdog Fantasy dot com or download the app, sign up with promo code late Round. That's one word, and then make a deposit. When you do, you'll get it deposit bonus offer as well as a free Late Round Draft guide that I'll get delivered to your email inbox in July first when it drops. That's Underdog Fantasy dot Com promo code Late Round. Now back to the show.

00:01:14
Speaker 2: I am so excited for this cold open when I saw it on the show sheet I was. I was immediately like, man, when I see a good creative idea, I always want to steal it, you know. It's just where my mind goes and I feel like I want to take this from now on. So the cold opening is probably one of my favorite things I've done in a podcast episode.

00:01:29
Speaker 1: Dude, you guys, I mean you guys have like semi cold open type stuff when you're doing like especially like the vlog type stuff that you've done, right, It's like like it's not just like, hey, welcome today today's episode. Today we're going to be talking about blah blah blah blah Blah's not like that usually.

00:01:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, any of the documenting stuff is more like storyline told, So we never have like any hard openings. It's just like what's going to be the best for the overall video. And even in my uh, even in my individual fantasy video, I kind of hate the idea of like, you know, introducing the video and be like, hey, this is what we're going to talk about. I still do it, but I like to just start talking about things that are a little bit random because it does catch people off guard. But if you have like a good soothing communication style. I feel like it kind of hooks you in and then you're like, you know, I'm in now, I'm in for thirty seconds, I might as well be in for sixty minutes. Well.

00:02:20
Speaker 1: I started my becoming a Best ball bro series in the podcast feed over the last month or so, and on the show earlier this week that dropped, I introed it. The cold open was me talking about the movie Homeward Bound. So like, there's no better better intro and grabber than talking about a movie from the early nineties that everyone forgot about, you know.

00:02:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it gets your like energy level really high from the rip, you know, because you're like adrenalinees up, and then your high energy for the rest of the episode.

00:02:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know for sure. I mean I'm doing it, like I just I get really annoyed by like the same old stuff in the fantasy space, and I think that you're the perfect person to talk to this about because I talk about this with because you've done some crazy stuff with BDGE and I want to I want to get into that. But like you know, even the Late Round podcast, like the reason the podcast exists is because I got so annoyed and tired of all the hour long shows that was the same thing talking about like NFC North Preview and like all these things that like like anyone can come up with that content, you know, like there's nothing not not to say that, like the people who are doing that content are bad and wrong and should stop doing it and and quit their jobs. Mostly that if you want to really differentiate what you're doing, I mean, I'm trying to dig into these like really particular topics in twenty minutes as opposed to, hey, let's talk about Caleb Williams and the Bears offense and kind of go team preview, you know by team preview. But you guys at BDGE man, I want to I want to get into this a little bit because I feel like you're probably the least and don't take this the wrong way, you're the least Twitter person that I brought onto late round perspectives so far. Right, like like you understand, you know, back whenever I started doing the fantasy stuff. This is back in like twenty eleven, right, and Twitter was really like the vehicle and the platform for a lot of sports discussion, and like if you wanted to build a brand, especially an individual brand, you know, you were on Twitter and that's really where you wanted your follower counts to be up. But obviously things have changed, things have shifted, and you know you focused your energy and your efforts on things like YouTube. You guys are big on TikTok as well. But give me sort of like the start to now of bdge in case people are within the Twitter bubble, which I think does exist a lot in the fantasy football.

00:04:36
Speaker 2: World for sure. I take that as the opposite of however, you like that was the ultimate compliment. I love that you said I'm just like outside of fantasy Twitter, I along with you, think like a lot of the things in the industry are pretty insufferable if I had to put it in one word or look at it from one perspective. Not that I don't you know, I know a lot of people work really really hard, So I don't want to, like you know, downplayer, make anyone feel bad. But I do think a lot of the same stuff is recycled and repeated, and it's not from like a place of internal inspiration and motivation, And you know, when it comes from someone else, then as it's repeated, it sounds like somebody else and I think that's a big problem within the space for sure. BDG started. I don't really know how to say when it started, because right now, I mean, we are much more running as like a real operation and a business and there's a team here and some structure behind it. When I started, though, obviously, it was just me wanting to make fantasy football content. Like me and a bunch of my high school friends played in a fantasy league together that we were super serious about. We started probably when I was in like ninth or tenth grade, and I kept winning, like four out of the first five years. I kept winning, and I was like, man, I'm like kind of good at this thing, you know, and I want to teach people how to get better at it. And it was just like a very genuine, like raw passion for it, raw passion to teach people things that I thought I knew now. I started blogging right away because at the time, like you said, you know, people came up in the industry when I was that age, they were either podcasting and it was probably even for that, but mostly like Twitter and blogging, and I was like, Okay, that's probably what I have to do. I guess if I want to break through because those the people that I'm watching, that's what they're doing, right, Like I have to go and do that kind of thing. I realized really quickly, like I dislike writing. I really really strongly don't like writing. It's just not how I express myself. Well, so immediately I figured out, like I like being on camera. I like recording, whether it's audio or video. It's like where I feel comfortable. It's where I feel like my best version of myself that I could really talk to the world and like get my message out there. So really quickly I pivoted over to YouTube. Right, I started making videos, and I was like, where can I put videos? And naturally, like YouTube was the place to do it at the time, and you know, for the most part still is. Obviously there are a lot of changes along the way, But to me, it wasn't like any sort of like savvy business decision. It was just like, I want to make videos. This is where I could put them on right. I didn't know where else to put them, so I did that. I didn't take it like too seriously at first. Again, it was just more of like a side thing that I liked doing, and it was something I was super passionate about. The more I did it, though, the more organic traction I saw coming over to what I was doing. And I wasn't like promoting it. I wasn't like showing my friends and family like, Hey, I'm doing this thing, can you share it? I was just happy to do it, and I was scared to put myself out there. I didn't actually want to share it with other people, to be you know, quite honest, because it's a vulnerable thing when you're starting to make content and putting yourself out there. But the more I put into it, the more I got back from it. And I was like, you know what, I wonder what would happen if I really like went all in on this and I put all my focus and like energy and time and committed to it for at least like a decent chunk of time just to see what would happen. And there was a summer I don't remember which summer it was, but it was probably like seven or eight years ago at this point, where I would get up and I would literally just like make videos pretty much NonStop. I would work all day on like researching for the videos, making the videos, editing them, thumbnails et cetera. You know, the whole, the whole deal. And I did that for like four or five months straight, and in that time period, things like I don't want to say they like up, but relative to where I was, I was like, Okay, you know, there's like real traction here. So there's something in the market telling me that there's like a demand for this. So once I saw that, I was like, all right, this could be kind of like my north star of what I'm working on, you know, for the rest of my life kind of thing. But at the time I still needed to I was young. I was like twenty one, twenty two, kind of just coming out of college, so I needed to like work and get a job. But I was doing this anytime I had like side time, whether it was at lunch during my actual job or like after I got home commuting whatever. And I just kept kind of building it up year over year until I got to a point where I was I was at work, but I would spend like all of my time in the kitchen area, like on my laptop working on my own shit.

00:08:42
Speaker 3: You know.

00:08:42
Speaker 2: There was like pinker in the menu on the website, or doing research for the next video kind of thing. I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm not making enough money to just like leave my job. But if I could leave and like do something from this job and make a little bit of money and like kind of make the two worlds meet, that would like I'm wasting my time here, They're wasting my time, I'm wasting their time. Like it doesn't really make sense. So I ended up leaving that job pretty soon after that, and I was in like the social media world as it relates, like my full time job, and I had learned some skills that were pretty new in the world. It was just like paid traffic for social so like running Facebook ads, Instagram ads, Twitter ads and things like that. And this was back in you know again, like twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, I want to say, so it was it was new, and I was able to pick up some freelance gigs e commerce and other like local businesses that were near me, like physically, and I made some money doing that, and I continue to do the content stuff on the side until it eventually just like collided and I was making enough money from the content through either selling my own draft guide or affiliates working with like the Underdogs and those types of companies, and then as the years kind of passed by, have unsuccessfully and successfully tried to scale it, brought team members on. You know, we have other creators here now, and we have video editors and producers and people that do different things and work on the tech stuff. So we've you know, we've tried to scale over over the six or seven year period, and we have an office here in New York. And a lot of that is because like when I left my last corporate job, you know, it gets lonely really really quickly. I'm an independent person, but as soon as I was like not around anybody for long periods of time, You're kind of like, fuck, I kind of missed the human interaction, the team development here. So I've kind of been like working reverse engineering my way back into an office, but just like just on my own terms, and it's taken. You know, I don't want to take any credit away from anyone that's helped me build this, but obviously that was like a five, six, seven, eight year grind to get back to where we are working like every day. So fast forward to today, we're you know, we're a brand that makes a ton of sports content obviously a lot of NFL related fantasy football, a lot of trivia stuff, a lot of uh behind the behind the business like vlog documenting type of stuff. So I think it's all equally important to us. But realistically, I think we're just an expression of passion from the people that are inside the office.

00:11:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it was I remember whenever I first was introduced to what you guys were doing and you and I started talking a little bit. We've been talking for a few years now, but like you know, whenever when I was introduced to it, I was like, man, it's crazy that there isn't really this kind of vibe in the space where you know, you don't you don't really have just like I don't want to call it barstooley because it's not you know, necessary, but like you understand the assignment of having personalities, having you know, like like like voices within what you're doing as opposed to just another byline on a website. And I think that's what's really separated you guys from you know, what other people are doing with in the space. Not only are you doing really creative content and fun content and different types of content, but also like you're focusing on the right things to focus on, Like you're focusing on I'm assuming that's all been something that you've thought about and something that that's that's uh, you know, that that you have have strived to do as opposed to just like, oh yeah, I just walked into this person. Who can you know, like be decent in front of a camera and be a good personality? Yeah. I mean it.

00:12:04
Speaker 2: It's a reflection of a lot of people in here that have consumed the content and then want it to be a part of it. And I so strongly believe that, like just the way media works and social media in itself, that over you know, the next decade or whatever, I think a lot of great companies are going to be built, but I actually think the ones that really like stand out are the ones that have like, your content has to be great, right, because that becomes distribution. Your product has to be great because that's what people are going to pay for if it's a good experience for them. But I think there's this this element of documentation to it. The story behind what you're actually doing and being able to be vulnerable and relate to people needs to be told through content, and that's how you hit that next tier of greatness realistically, and I also think there is I don't want to sound like calculated about it, but it's always just felt very right for me. So it might look calculated from the outside, but it always felt like documenting and showcasing this stuff was the right thing to do. And what it's also given us the advantage of is like when you make that other type of content, when you feel like you need to express yourself about something other than football, it feels like a natural platform for that. Because I do think, especially in this industry, you can get very, very very burnt out from talking about the same thing day over day over day over week over month over year, and if you don't eventually develop a different outlet, like I think most people in our industry probably need to look for another outlet based on the amount of work we do in this space, that could be really detrimental to you as a creator and as individual creators like yourself and I am, like, we always need to be innovating and invigorating our own content, and like, man, if you lose the passion for it, you're not going to be able to edge out other people. So you need that other side of release or or expression or fulfillment from other parts of life. And for me, honestly, it's been a lot of like running the brand and the business and the marketing and making content around that. Just like these types of conversations or it's like such a breath of fresh air for me and such a release for me that that has helped like push me past some of the football stuff that I get burnt out with. You know, yeah, no, I.

00:14:19
Speaker 1: Totally understand that honestly, at its core is the reason why I left Fandel Like I had a very good job. I have nothing but good things to say about the gig, the people there, the company, all that kind of stuff. And whenever I said I was leaving, people are like, oh man, he got fired or he you know, just the typical stuff that people say, O mine. It's like, no, I just needed a change. Like in any job, you hit these lulls where you're like I need some of this passion and creative fire to sort of come back, And you know, I've fortunately been able to get that with late around fantasy football. But then you know, even within the podcast feed, like like the documentation stuff that you're talking about, like that's what becoming a best ball bro is all about. I'm literally documenting myself becoming a best ball bro and just being open and honest about my exposure to players, how I'm approaching the drafts, and obviously it's a fantasy football related thing. But I've said this so many times. This is the first time with that show where I don't have to really be the expert, Like I don't have to sit back and be like, hey, guys, listen to me. This is all the research I'm doing. I know that this is like stuff that you can win with. Right, I'm finally able to just kind of sit back and like go along this journey with others and sort of be their peers, if you will. Instead of every podcast you listen to when it's advice driven, like the Fantasy Football spaces, you're inevitably talking down to people, right because you're you're saying, hey, this is like go pick up this guy or go draft this guy. You know, I'm the expert. You have to listen to me, and it does get draining. Man likes it's a lot whenever that's not. Also, it's difficult when if that's like not really your personality, like I don't really enjoy like telling people what to do or anything like that. It's it's more so I just love fantasy football and I love researching this stuff, and I want to get my voice out there. But it's been nice to sort of have that change of pace a little bit with becoming a better Yeah.

00:16:01
Speaker 2: I mean, that's that's why I like the documenting stuff is so it's fun. It's it's scary to put yourself out there in that way, but it is this like, okay, cool, we are we're like working with each other. We are like going on this journey kind of together, and it's okay for me to be infallible. It's okay for me to like fuck up here and there you do it, I do it too. I Mean, we live in a social world where like people's validation comes from like the downfall of people above them in a sense. You know, That's why people want to talk shit. That's why people like love to uh just chirp at you on Twitter and chirp at you in the comments because it just makes them feel better. Like they look at you and they're like, I wish I had taken that path. I wish I was twenty years old and worked really hard at my passion and now that I see someone else doing it, like, I feel that inside and it hurts, So I'm gonna take it out on you kind of thing, you know. And we have a very large majority of people that do that and operate that way. And when you get to go through more of like the documentary style of content and you get to be more open and vulnerable, you know, they see, they're like fuck. And that's that's one of the other reasons why I felt like I needed to share the story, share the story of us and document everything. Was like show especially the younger kids, like this wasn't by accident. I know that you can put out a TikTok video and get a million views on it by tomorrow. But I've been working on this business legitimately every single day for the last ten years straight. Like, it's not an accident that I'm here. I've sacrificed a lot to be here. I've like a lot of personal stuff to be here, you know. So it's like, if you can show that and get that through people's minds, it I think it like hopefully inspires and hopefully clicks with them a little bit. So yeah, dude, that's what that's really like. The documentary style of stuff is not any sort of like, oh, we want to be and we get that a lot like the whole the barstool side of things, Like we're not trying to be barsool. We're trying to show just like what's going on inside the walls for better or worse. We're not putting on a show here, Like sure we want to entertain, like we're fucking around in here, but that's also just like literally what's going on. We'll show the business side of things, will show, you know, all that kind of stuff. So hopefully it opens people up and like they want to just root for us and come along for the ride wherever it ends.

00:18:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, look now, all the while, you have been a fantasy analyst, right, Like, this isn't just you know, I have not just been a businessman built.

00:18:17
Speaker 2: Out a wheels turn yep, you have.

00:18:19
Speaker 1: You have been a fantasy analyst. So let's dig into that a little bit. What is What would you say is sort of like your process is a fantasy analyst. You know, I think people would probably put me in a bucket of Oh that's the data nerd JJ talking about his stupid data stuff again, you know Matt Waldman. They'd say, oh, there's Waldman grinding his film again.

00:18:37
Speaker 2: Uh.

00:18:37
Speaker 1: Where would you sort of place yourself on that spectrum?

00:18:42
Speaker 2: I think it's probably a it depends what part of the year. I would say, Like, if I'm doing rookie stuff, I've gone completely because now we have we have two channels. Now we have the Redraft Channel and the Dynasty Channel, so we've completely split them up when we talk one or the other. Basically on the channels when it's Dynasty stuff, I'm really locked in on the rookie class coming in, and I've completely changed my way of evaluating for the most part to film first. And I think it's part because I feel like I have a really good grasp on what I'm looking for in the film, but partly also because I think the data as it relates to college players leaves a lot to be desired, which is something I think the industry is like obsessed with data that's like predictive.

00:19:25
Speaker 1: But the.

00:19:27
Speaker 2: Downfall is data is predictive. I feel like when it's in the same environment. So if you tell me like, hey, this player did this in NFL year one, that makes me feel like Okay, there might be data there to project into NFL year two and three, but going from a Conference USA college player to the NFL, like those numbers to me feel borderline irrelevant. So I'm kind of watching film and I'm saying, Okay, if this guy is doing something, are people double counting? Like we'll put like Twitter highlights up and they're like, this guy like made this play, and I'm like, it was a nice play, but ninety percent of players are also probably going to make that play in that situation. So I feel like a lot of rookie stuff gets double counted, and that's why like highlights go crazy even though they're not that impressive of highlights whatever. And I feel like people kind of lose context, whether it's number of men in the box or like the gaps being open with a guy like Jalen Wright who was playing against you know, three man fronts kind of thing, and a lot gets lost, and I feel like most people are not putting the work into, like watch the context behind it. So it relates to rookie stuff. I'm watching a lot of film. I'm making my opinions, but then I'm making sure like what I see on film, probably three or four things will stand out to me per player, and then I'll go into the numbers afterwards. If I'm saying, like Jalen Wright explosive as shit, now I'm going to look at his breakaway run rate, his percentage of ten to twenty plus yard runs, the number of men in the box at the time, if I feel like all the boxes were super super light kind of thing. So I'm trusting my eyes first, but I'm not just going off the eyes. I'm making sure that I go into the things that stood out to me. Backing up with stats, Athleticism matters to me, of course, but only in the sake that if I think a guy's an outlier or they're not playing against like real college competition, I want to make sure that they are as athletic as like real NFL players are. So there's kind of a pattern as like the seasons, and the cycle goes through the offseason for rookies especially.

00:21:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. Look the it's music to my ears to hear you talk about like the Conference USA players and how they're translating to the NFL because one of the big because I'm obviously data heavy and you know, my prospect model and stuff. But like one of the very glaring obvious problems I've seen with like things like yards per team pass attempt or what have you, is the lack of adjustment for the conference the team right and strength right, Like like a guy playing at Alabama way way different than someone playing at Western Michigan.

00:21:52
Speaker 2: And it's literally like some dude from PFF said, like yards per outrun matters eight years ago, and then it's like the only thing people in the industry cite. It's like, yeah, this guy had five point seven yards per outrun in like some shitety conference. I'm like, like, I could show you seven dues that are terrible that have the same like metric or stat or whatever, and it's just it's it's like no one can think for themselves.

00:22:13
Speaker 1: It feels like, Yeah, I think part of the problem though, with the data stuff is that people really look at data in silos and not looking at data sort of together, like different data pieces to really create something like That's why you know, I'm never gonna tell people. I even say in my prospect guide, I'm not telling people to strictly draft off of the model. Now I've tested the model, I know that the way that the model ranks players is actually better and more predictive than ADP has been rookie ADP, and so like you could hypothetically be fined by doing that, But at the end of the day, like you know, I'm not gonna say that whatever this is spitting out is absolutely going to happen. There's so much gray area in this. I mean, that's the entire point of why we're doing this in the first place, because there is that gray area and it's not black and white. I think the problem, it's sort of what you're alluding to, is like when people just say this guy had a good yards per route run and you know, it's a good one off thing to talk about on a show whatever, but there's going to be there always needs to be context. Like I think that even the stuff that people have been doing over the last like two or three years with yards per route run looking at formations where if a guy's yards per rout run is higher because his team's running a lot more twelve personnel and there's only two wide receivers on the field at once, that's probably why his yards perrout run is a little bit higher because when he's running routes, there's only one other wide receiver option on the field, Whereas if it's a number three or a number four guy, it's gonna be a little bit more difficult to raise that number. If there's three or four wide receivers on the field, it's gonna be a little bit more difficult to sort of raise that number. So like context is always needed for this.

00:23:40
Speaker 2: Kind of stuff. It's funny too, because like it's almost like the natural progression of like technology, where you know, you look back at the iPhone ten years ago and you're like, I can't believe we use this shit relative to like what we see now, but at the time you're like, this is the most powerful thing ever. The same thing with stats, where it's like we're looking at yards pro out run was incredible eight years ago, you know, and then yards per team pass attempt, and then now we're adjusting for men in the box and conferences and all this stuff, and it's like, whatever is today's you know, flavor of the week will not be the same thing a year from now. And I think I've also taken my foot off the pedal as it relates to data things, because there are so many good people out there like yourself, that are doing the work on that that when they trust something, it's easy for me to be like the middleman. This says like, hey, this is what I liked on film, but like here are some really good numbers that either contradict what I said, so think for yourself or that back up what I'm talking about with a ton of context behind it. So I think a lot of people within the space, like yourself. You're very data driven, and I think people come and they trust numbers. Some people might come to me because they feel like I am a good mix of film and data and maybe just are comfortable with my communication style, like they can kind of sit there and just watch me for twenty twenty five thirty minutes and feel like I kind of told them a story or something like that, you know what I mean. So I think there's there's mixes and f It's for everybody in the space realistically, and I try to I try not to like force myself into any of those boxes.

00:25:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it kind of goes back to what we were talking about before with just content creation. I think that you should be doubling down on like the things that Number one you're good at but also passionate about. Right, Like if if data, like anyone listening to this it's an analyst or an aspiring analyst, It's like, if data isn't your thing, don't make it your thing. Like I've had so many people email me and ask me like what kind of coding I'm using or like you know, ask me where I'm getting my data sources and they don't know anything even about like Excel or something. And it's like, don't do Like you don't need to go down this route, Like there's there are other things that you can do and try to figure out to be a part of this space. Doesn't need to be that thing. I think it's just doing whatever you know that you can provide utility, provide value, and bring something different to the table that might not be out there elsewhere. And look, when I discover something that's data driven, like a trend of some sort or something that no one's really talked about before, Dude, I cannot wait until that podcast drops whenever I'm done. And that's when you know that you're you're you're you're in the right area, you're doing the right kind of content. And if that's not there for you. That's you shouldn't be doing it that way.

00:26:12
Speaker 2: Yes, And that was like on the show shoot you sent over You're like, what's one piece of advice you would give content creators, you know, looking to improve in the fantasy space? And I think in today's world, like it's if you're just starting out as a creator or even in your infant uh, you know, the first couple of years, you are so overwhelmed by the amount of things that you're supposed to do, Like you're supposed to be on YouTube and you're supposed to have a podcast, and you're supposed to have a TikTok and you're supposed to be data driven and watch film and like, I just keep coming back to this notion that like you have to be great somewhere before you can be good everywhere. Yeah, And I think if you asked anyone successful in this space where they started, they would hit you with like one thing that they built all their leverage, leverage through one thing. And then eventually, once you get so good at that, you start to you know, resources start to come in because you've built leverage, and then you could start to disperse that leverage elsewhere. Like we're able to grow multiple YouTube channels and on TikTok and post on Twitter and Instagram because we've built the leverage through YouTube first, right, And I feel fortunate that, like no one was making YouTube content when I started. But you probably feel the same way when you started, and the person before you felt the same way then they started, and the dudes who are blowing up on TikTok feel the same way about it now, and like it's the same cycle over and over again. But the common denominator I found is like you have to be obsessed and be great at like the one thing, and that's where you build your leverage from. And it's got to be like very intrinsic to you solve the problem that you're looking for. Don't try to just solve the problem that somebody else is already solving, because they've already solved it. Pretty much.

00:27:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all said. I mean, look at Matt Harmon, he did reception perception. Look at you know other like, I mean, the only reason why I was able to launch my careers because the late round quarterback stratch way back in the day, right, Like there's always that one thing I used to get writers emailing me all the time when I was at Number Fire, because we'd recruit writers all the time, and you know, I'd get these people like sending me these like examples of these writing samples, and it would be like a rankings write up and then just like a little blurb about each player, and my response, like I was always like trying to give constructive criticism whenever people would email me, and and it was sort of along the lines of, like, nobody knows who you are right now, so no one's gonna care about your rankings. They care about your rankings after you've established yourself by by doing X, Y and Z. Right, Yeah, like don't go out there just being like check out my rankings. They're going to be good. It's like that it doesn't matter, like like it's just it's not a big deal to the consumer, because it shouldn't be a big deal to the consumer. They need to gain that trust through the other things that you're doing, you know, before they realize, oh, this guy's competent or this this gallas competent, and they're able to you know, give me, you know, the fantasy advice that that I really need and want.

00:28:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think a lot of like a lot of you know, break it through the spaces is going back to like be able to market yourself through content in the same way, it's like, Okay, you find the thing that you're great at or that you want to talk about it, you have to understand where you should be putting that content out right, And I think most people know, Like if I j if I were to ask you, like, man, I know you're spending your time on the podcast and like on YouTube, but it's like where should you be spending your time, Like where do you wish you had extra time to put time into? Like what would your answer to that be?

00:29:23
Speaker 1: Mine would, well, first off, I would say anything video, but like you know, so I would I want to grow YouTube a lot. But yeah, I mean you go to like you'd want to do stuff on TikTok, you'd want to do.

00:29:32
Speaker 2: That's everyone to answer, And it's like it's fine that you don't do it because you have a lot of leverage elsewhere. But for there's so many people in the space that know that answer that don't have leverage and then continue to do old shit. And it's like when you can figure out the crossroads of like kind of perfection, there within the fantasy space or content, there's something you know, like the dynasty space is completely blown a cast, get up right, like it is no longer a secret that it's probably going to be a gold mine for the next three, four or five years. That's the space I would be looking at because it's a very natural transition. So if you love dynasty, like, that's where you should be creating a lot, And there are a lot of creators like kind of blowing up through YouTube right now in the dynasty space is still very new, and I would go to TikTok for it, and I would go like most people have the answers of where they should be, but they're so in love with like the old ways of how JJ you know got big, how Nick got big, how people blew up on these platforms that it's like, you're not going to get there by doing that. You're going to be getting You're going to get there by being the places that you know you should be. It's not much deeper than that.

00:30:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, if I were starting today, I would not be doing what I did. There's no there's no chance. It's like, Okay, I have this valuable podcast that I have built up and really worked hard towards I'm going to leverage that, of course, and then sort of work on these other things on the side. But if I were starting out, I'd be going to the non traditional I say traditional, I mean traditional as in like what we were doing ten years ago type platforms, Like why would you not do that? I mean you see it all the time if you're just scrolling through TikTok right now. Now, there are creators. Like if you're in the Twitter bubble, and I know that we're spending more time on this than probably either of us expected, but like if you're if you're in the Twitter bubble, which is where the fantasy football space has really been over the last fifteen years or so, you might not even be aware of how big the creator economy is on TikTok or even on YouTube. It's crazy.

00:31:23
Speaker 2: So, Man's it's funny because I've I've I was kind of in that middle ground where, like I knew, I consider you like an og in the space right and like basically everybody that came before you, old man, I'm in that og range where you guys kind of paved the way as it relates to like you know, Twitter and podcasts and stuff like that, and then I was kind of part of the new wave. I was very familiar with all your guys' work and I did some work in that space, and then I got into YouTube, and then I think most people after me were either like YouTube or you know, down into like the TikTok platform. And I have guys in my office that are twenty one twenty two that are like breaking into the industry that you and like the ogs would have no idea who they are. They and the reversal, don't take this wrong way, don't know who you guys are. Yeah, of course, yeah, And they're these guys are like with the amount of opportunity out there, I mean, like financially and monetarily, these guys are fucking crushing it. Are probably making more just from like affiliate deals than ninety nine percent of the blue check marks on Twitter. And it goes to the fact that like these things changed very quickly, and it could happen to anyone, but it's obviously the younger generation is just like kind of tapped in more to that. But it's like, I can't tell you how real it is that these guys are going to be full time you know, fucking cappers on TikTok or full time fantasy analyst on TikTok within like two years because they just understood really where to go and the space moves quickly, and I feel really fortunate to like surround myself with this the younger people, but still try to stay in tune and like understand what's going on with everybody in the space because you know, like I said before, as individual creators, we need to be always thinking about what the next thing is, and a lot of it comes from you know, internal like what do I want to do next? Combining with where is like the culture and where's the market going?

00:33:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. Man, I could talk about this kind of stuff for hours, literally hours.

00:33:13
Speaker 2: I'm here for it, bro.

00:33:14
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, uh oh yeah. So you're prospecting stuff. So you do you do prospecting work? I'll quickly ask you. Within your rookie drafts this year, was there anything that really stood out? Whether it was like a player being massively undervalued over and over again or overvalued over over and over again, or like the way that people sort of viewed the running back class in general, that kind of thing.

00:33:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would I probably have an answer for both of those, I would say that the I mean, I guess it's not a surprise, but no one really liked Bo Nicks, no one really thought Michael Pennix was the first round pick, and now they are going in the same places in rookie drafts at the one to eleven, the two o two, the two oh five that we've completely missed on every good quarterback ever that was, you know, the Justin Herberts, the gotcha whatever it is, right, We're just making the same mistakes over and over and over and over again. So I guess I'm surprised, but I guess I'm not surprised that these guys like you know, Nicks and Panics go that late. But to touch on your other point, the running back class, so I going into it, you know this was an objectively like underwhelming running back class. Yeah, I think that, And I don't want to take like the cliche way out and be like, oh, it's kind of deep, though I wouldn't say it's like it's like deep, but I do think this class has a handful of dudes like Marshaon Lloyd and Trey Benson and Jalen Wright and even probably like the Isaac Garrendo that have they're so similar to like DeAndre Swift or a Miles Sanders, where they have this like crazy upside of athleticism mixed with like kind of terrible vision, like they missholes all the time and they don't know how to read the offensive line the leverage from their lineman often. But that makes for like really interesting fantasy prospects where they might be like the RB thirty two next year. But I wouldn't be surprised if you told me any of those four guys had top six fantasy upside because they're so explosive, and it's like if they're in the right situation where we've seen that from Swift where he's great when he's great and he's bad when he's bad. Miles Sanders is great when he's great and he's really bad when he's bad. And I think all of the I think we have a large class of those guys who I think could legitimately have like an RB five finish and then an RB thirty five finish the next year.

00:35:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I like that take a lot. I also think that, you know, the lack of just like blue chip running backs in this class is a huge reason why it has the perception that it does. Whereas, like, I think Jonathan Brooks could be really really good and if not for the ACL, he would have probably been considered more of a blue like he in my prospect model. I've said this plenty on the show, but in my prospect model, like he literally ranked from a prospect and standpoint right next to like Kenneth Walker and Javonte Williams, like he was he was that good of a prospect, like according to the stuff that I'm looking at. And so you know, I think that I think that if he didn't the ACL, I think literally that one player could change perception completely of how this running back class just looked entering the season, or sorry, entering the NFL. And so you know, if he ends up hitting, then all of a sudden, we'll look back and we'll be like, oh man, yeah, we this actually wasn't that bad of a class even Yeah, it's just that one guy.

00:36:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like you could tell the story so easily. Brooks is so much fun as a prospect. He was a first running back that I like watched film on and I was like, I don't think there's gonna be a back that I like better in this class, Like immediately looks like Aaron Jones. He's smooth, he's a good cutter, and what I not like? I guess, but the ACL is not a huge concern for me because he's so young. He's just twenty years old. By the time he's two years or moved from the ACL, he's twenty two, and I don't really have a concern the backfield will be entirely his by that point, Like is anyone could be surprised when Trey Benson is the starter in Arizona next year, when James Connor's gone. No, there's a very clear path for all these running backs to play really, really well. And because they have like insane athleticism pretty much the board in this class, it shouldn't be a surprise when they do hit. I think a lot of classes are like, oh, they're deep here, but like they're not great prospects for the most part across the board. We just like them, right, And a lot of it goes back to just there's so many people on Dynasty Twitter that like, eventually you're gonna come across five threads about this fourth round running back and this sixth round running back that you know, you're gonna have three thousand people on Twitter that love that guy because of the threads they come across. And then it just becomes like a everyone just fucking yelling at each other into the void, and I don't know, it's a mess.

00:37:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I feel you are there any sleepers in this class that you're really into.

00:37:39
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think about how like deep it's weird because when you're so close to it, it feels like any name you say is like a cop out right now because everyone knows it. I love Javon Baker out in New England. He was one of my favorite wide receivers, great possession guy. I think he goes into an offense that has like a ton of opportunity there obviously to be to be a player. Tyrone Tree is really cool out there in New York. He was, you know, a wide receiver that just really didn't get his run. They finally put him out running back. He's a little bit of like a Debo build expox. Yeah, five eleven six foot two fifteen, really really athletic and obviously as a wide receiver can catch the ball. So he's got that three three down skill set with like very little competition in front of him, Devin Singletary, and then I kind of touched on Isaac Grendo when I like he was a dude that I had no idea who he was prior to the combine, and then he blew away the combine and then I was like, all right, I guess I gotta watch this guy. And I was super I was I was expecting to see like a kind of an awful running back that was just really athletic. I was really surprised by his tape. I thought he was like a very good running back. I thought he understood like his offensive lineman. I thought he understood how to hit holes and use leverage and understood when to use the burst in the athleticism he had. So I'm actually like super excited to see if he can win that RB two role in San Francisco.

00:38:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, he got a I thought was a little bit better of a prospect, like the numbers and stuff that I'm looking at, But he got a Pachecko comp for me, Like that makes sense still, it's like in that sort of grouping in that arc type for sure. He Yeah, let's shift our focus a little bit to Redraft. I saw that you you dropped a video on some of the players that you're avoiding. I think that it's going to be good to have sort of the altering perspective on this. I'm not necessarily There's there's one guy I definitely want to dig into because I I I'm much higher than you are on him. The other two I think, you know, I totally totally get. So let's just go through three guys that I thought were the most intriguing, the most interesting that you brought up. Let's start with Drake London. You see him as a player to avoid right now, I'm assuming that you're sort of working off of underdog drafts and best Ball, But I mean that's really like all we can work off of at this point of the off season.

00:39:47
Speaker 2: But yeah, tell me what think? Yeah, where do you think? I mean in underdog his price is insane, it's like the two one to two oh two. If you want to take him there, where do you think? And obviously, this time in the year the only place to really draft to where you're getting any sort of real inkling of what the season is gonna be like come come August, come early September, Like, where do you think Drake London's gonna be going in like friends and family, leagues or even like maybe a little bit of a step up from that.

00:40:13
Speaker 1: I think that probably probably the end of the second would be more realistic and into the third. My thing though with London's ADP is well number one. We obviously know that underdogs wide receiver heavy and people are gonna lose it over the over wide receivers. But like round two, I don't know how you feel about it. Round two just kind of sucks this year. Like let's like you get into round two and you're like, man, why is there a rookie wide receiver sitting here? And you're like, oh, it's because there's just so many, And like even right now as we're drafting, you know, there's like that like queasiness with like going with one of the San Francisco wide receivers, even because one if one of them, you know, leaves and all of a sudden your stacks are blown up and that guy's not gonna probably perform as well on a team that's not for San Francisco. Or you look at Chris Alave and you're like, yeah, he's solid, but is the upside, you know, is he going to be a top five wide receiver. And then you look at you know, Marvin Harrison obviously being you know, a rookie, and then the running backs that are there, you can poke holes and the arguments for both of them because they have mobile quarterback you know, Jonathan Taylor and Saquon Barkley, and so you're just kind of like looking at the landscape, like I've gotten a ton of like Jalen Waddle for instance, because it's just an easy, safe, you know, the target chair is going to be there. His numbers last year were actually really really good. They're actually better than twenty twenty two on like a per route run basis and like all that, and so it's like I'm just gonna go with that route. But I think that's a lot of the reason why Drake London is where he's a It's just that it's it's easy to call him out because he's sort of at the top of that tier, right, Like that's sort of probably I'm assuming part of like the logic for you with him.

00:41:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's it's twofold. It's one that like, yeah, a month ago he was at I don't know, the two twelve which it's a totally different conversation when you're talking about a delta of ten picks within a twenty four pick period percentage, that's a massive gap. Obviously, I listen, I'm a Falcons fan, and I'm trying not to forget. Yeah, I'm trying not to be biased here, but like we are, we are just paper champions right now, and I think there are I think there are a lot of reasons to be pessimistic about this team. Uh there. I think a lot of things need to break right for Drake London to return what value you're passing up on at the two to oh one, Like, you know, it's it's no surprise all these talking points where Kirk is old. Dude, Kirk is very old, and he's coming off of this serious Achilles injury. What happens when he takes that first shot down by his legs? Like what if he's not mentally there? What if he is scared to plant off that foot for like the first month of the season. That's scary for a lot of deep shots to Drake London. I mean, the target competition, I think is a talking point. I don't know if that's really gonna be the thing that holds down Drake London. I think you can make the point that they're going to pass the ball a lot whatever. Our defense is like atrocious, it's really really, really really bad, and you could say, like, hey, I think this is a big talking point in fantasy football where people say, oh, they're gonna let up a lot of points, We're going to have to be in shootouts, et cetera. The other side of that sword is also when you let up a lot of points, the other team is on the field for a very very long time and their time of possession is very high. So when you do get the ball back, if you go three and out, that's a lot of time now that they get the ball back, you know what I mean. I just have a lot of pessimism around the Atlanta Falcons. We've been down the road before. You know, Bijon Can having an all Pro season. What if Kyle Pitts bounces back with like twelve hundred yards is there enough upside to kind of go around in that offense? Man new coaching staff, there's like a lot of changes and it all needs to go right for Drake C. London to return value to a one.

00:43:47
Speaker 1: I almost feel like the London thing is almost identical to Garrett Wilson right now, is it not like like it's it's got an old quarterback coming off inn Achilles, an elite running back sitting back there. I think the one thing that probably would favor Wilson in a projection slash, why Wilson is going ahead of London, which happens in pretty much, you know, like ninety eight percent drafts, probably is the Kyle Pitts factor. Like there's no there's no Kyle Pitts. There's no like potential stud sitting in that New York offense like there is with Pitts. Would that be like the differentiator for you?

00:44:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that that's definitely a part of it. I also think, like, and I don't want to go too much into like the eye test and be like, oh, he looks better Garrel Wilson kind of pops off on the screen. London has his plays, for sure. Wilson looks like a young Stefan Diggs. And the other thing that like you can't not look at is the fact that Garrelson had one hundred and seventy targets last year, which is that's that's like that those are crazy numbers, right, Drake London is topping out. We've seen it. Yeah, he's talking out with like one hundred and ten targets obviously with Arthur Smith the new quarterback, all that kind of stuff. But like Garrett Wilson's regression is what one hundred and fIF ffty five targets, where Drake London's huge progression is one hundred and thirty hundred and forty, maybe they're more valuable similar. I just think we've seen a little bit more from Wilson. We've seen a little bit more of what we're gonna need in terms of like yards after the catch. I think he's a little bit better of a route runner. I think he can make plays on his own and that entire passing offense is going to funnel through him. We've seen Aaron Rodgers like when he dials in on his one, the one is like a real alpha one. So I think if you get a little bit of sprinkle. But I'm equally concerned, Like I don't have faith going into last year. I was super skeptical about the Jets offense altogether. You know, whatever happened with Rogers, But prior to that, like they were the paper champions, right they were on paper they were going to the Super Bowl. That feels a lot like what the Falcons are going through right now, and I just have a lot of pessimism about it.

00:45:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it just goes to show what we're talking about where it's just like this, like there's just not that many There aren't that many concrete players, like at the end of the first and into the second and throughout the second. And I think that the Wilson in London thing is just a really good example of like we're gonna have to just do a little projecting this year to to you know, feel at least moderately comfortable getting these guys like right now, you know, like I'm fine with London. I'm fine with Wilson. You know, you have your take on London, which is totally understandable. I understand that range of outcome with him and seeing you know, the downside another player that you had on that list with Xavier Worthy, you know, rookie stepping in though to a situation that's kind of intriguing. You know, you get Kansas City, Patrick Mahomes. They finally have sort of this vertical threat and Kansas City massive, massive touchdown regression candidates. Just in terms of like their total touchdowns score, They're gonna probably score ten plus more touchdowns this year than they did last year, more than likely. So what is it about Worthy and his price that just has you avoiding him?

00:46:43
Speaker 2: I mean we I feel like we just keep trying to play this game with the casey wide receivers and it's not usually a product of like, oh, it's Patrick Mahomes, a wide receiver has to do it in almost all situations. When we try to do this, it's oh, Aaron Rodgers just you know, he just doesn't pass to his tight end when he has a tight end. Like maybe you know what I mean. We try to like play through these loopholes. Xavier Worthy, for me, the reason I don't like him, it's not obviously the Kansas City situation is about as pristine as you can get. Didn't love him as a prospect. Like when I watched the Texas film, that was probably one of the most fun films for me to watch because you have Xavier Worthy of Aden I Mitchell and I watched Ad and I and I was like, I love this dude. Like he I thought he was so good, and I look at his numbers and I'm like, this is gonna be a fun one because I know all of Dynasty Twitter is gonna take his ask. Everyone's gonna hate him. I look at Xavier Worthies freshman numbers and I'm like, they're all gonna love him. Like gonna be the great debate of this offseason. I couldn't be more on ad and I I couldn't be more off Xavier Worthy just from like he's one of those dudes where broke out as a freshman and didn't really improve his numbers afterwards. And I think we see that often with really athletic players, Like you're a freshman coming down to the scene with four two one speed, You're gonna catchure your opponents by surprise. What happens when you rely so heavily on it leticism is like you stop to progress your other parts of your game. You're so heavily reliant on that stuff, and when you don't progress, your overyear like that's eventually going to catch up to you. And I feel like a lot of that happened with Xavier Worthy. And what's funny too, is like for so many years we talked about like if Xavier Worthy came out the year before DeVante Smith, he would be like one hundred and sixty five pounds, right, Like no one even really mentions his weight anymore or his size about how that's like an outlier. If he hits, he's also like so so so small. And when I look at Worthy and the lack of improvement and he's not really a red zone threat. I think a lot of his production came behind the line of scrimmage, a ton of screen passes. He had very few big plays for someone who is so fast and supposed to be like a downfield threat. And that's concerning to me. So if a lot of your stuff is like pre planned production that, I don't know how well that translates into the NFL. Dude, they just so here's the way I look at Mikol Harbon, or here's the way I look at Xavier Worthy.

00:48:57
Speaker 1: Wow, was that little slip there?

00:48:59
Speaker 2: It was a little foreshot. Just because they just re signed Mikel Harmon today, right, they resigned him to another year. It would not surprise me at all. And I'm not saying this like for clicks or hyperbole. It would not surprise me if Mikol Harmon had more receiving yards than Xavier Worthy did this year. I don't really think it would surprise most people.

00:49:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that, we're gonna we're gonna have to grab that and put that at the front of the episode.

00:49:20
Speaker 2: How you felt that? That felt like TikTok energy coming at of me as soon as I fucking said it. But I met that with like everything in my soul, because I feel like mcchole is gonna go for six thirteen and Xavier Worthy's gonna have five hundred and ninety four yards and you know, Hollywood's gonna have eight hundred and forty yards and it's just gonna be a mess with like no consistency. I don't love him as a prospect, and the situation of him being with Mahomes is overhyped because like Mahomes just doesn't turn everybody into a superhero. He just has had superheroes around him, right, Like yeah, in front Tyreek killing the Hill.

00:49:56
Speaker 1: Look, if this comes down to you didn't like the dude as a prospect, right, you should.

00:50:00
Speaker 2: Not a very long saying that.

00:50:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like you should not let the situation overshadow that, Like you like absolutely like stick to those to your prospect evaluation because the situation is like me able to. I mean, it might elevate him a little bit, but it's not going to elevate him to being you know, what we need him to be in in fantasy football. So look, I don't mind Worthy as a prospect. I do think that there are times where I'm in these best ball drafts I'm like kind of a little bit surprised that he's going where he's going, especially whenever you have other really good rookie wideouts sort of in the same range where he's going that you can click on and feel a little bit more confident in there, you know, whether it be your one profile or just talent profile in general. You know, I get it if you're stacking all that kind of stuff. So I'm not like four or against Worthy, but I do think it was interesting that you had him on your list. The last guy I want to talk about, though, is the one that I do disagree with, like like more you know, with the other two is just like yeah, you know, I get it, but Jayden Daniels was on your list and the let me let me just say I think that you're the only fantasy analyst that has come out and said that you're low on Jaden Daniels this year, because I feel like every other analyst that I've seen on the streets, the Twitter streets, you know, I've been relatively high on him. And look, there's reason for it. I can get into some of that, but I want to hear your anti Daniels take. You know, he's going like QB eleven ish, QB twelve ish right now, and that's that seems to be very high for you.

00:51:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it feels expensive. Like I'll just start off by saying, I like, would low. I think I'd rather like die than actively choose a quarterback in a Cliff Kingsbury offense. Again, I have very little faith in him being able to run a smooth ship over there. So I do not like the coaching staff coming in. I thought we saw that play itself out in Arizona, where everything became gimmicky. They could not run a successful offense as soon as things started to fall apart a little bit. And when I think about Washington over the like, that's like a couple of I think it's easy to have talked yourself into being like, oh, they have a pretty good like weapon group, I don't think you can really say that anymore. They have they have their true alpha in Terry McLaurin. Behind him, like Curtis Samuel's gone, you have Johan Dotson. But John Dotson was about as bad as it gets last year, and if he is the player that he was last year, you have very little on that offense behind Terry McLaurin. So like, if I'm looking at a quarterback where I'm saying like I'm one injury away from having arguably, you know, a bottom three, a bottom five receiving group in the NFL, I'm a little bit worried about that. I mean, I think the obvious thing with Daniels and his upside is his rushing, And I don't want to try to predict like, oh, he runs a lot, so he's gonna get hit a lot, But he's gonna get hit a lot because he runs more than the average quarterback. Along with the fact that this Washington offensive line allowed almost four sacks a game last year, it was like only the Giants allowed more sacks to their quarterbacks all last season. And it's not like they fixed up their entire offensive lines. It's not like they add a lot of firepower to this offense. So I think you very rarely find a rookie quarterback going into a situation where the weapons are below average and he's gonna see a ton of pressure immediately out of the gate where that sets up for success. And I get it like in Underdog, where you are able to have other quarterbacks rotate into your lineup in one QB leagues where you shoot for upside because you could just drop him and pick somebody else up. I'm pretty much okay with that because I mean, if you're getting fifteen, sixteen, seventeen games out of Daniels, he's probably gonna scoot for you know, six hundred and five, six seven, whatever the case may be, and that'll be good to give you like blow up weekly games. I play in a lot of super flex leagues, and I just feel like he becomes really risky to me in those formats. So I just really worry about the situation, not as much as him as a prospect necessarily, but I think we're like one thing happening away from it being like bottom of the league type of situation, and rookies very rarely survived that.

00:54:01
Speaker 1: It's gonna be really interesting to see where he goes and super flex like redraft because you know, and not not like best ball format, you know, like managed league because yeah, like like you said, I mean, realistically, if he holds onto the QB eleven ish price tag, which I think he definitely will, Like I doubt that he's going to get over like a Kyler and probably not gonna get over a Love and Dak, but he might just based on the hype and the rushing, like you know, like those last two guys, Like there's a possibility, but it's like, why would you go after why would you draft him over Kyler? When Kyler is literally going to give you the same rushing production and not being rookie right and be in a better environment and stuff like that. The one thing that I will say too with Daniels and I've wrote, I've written him up as being someone Kyler to me is like the the easy click when you're looking at like a non elite.

00:54:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you have a good counterpoint for this, I'd love to hear, because I didn't realize, Like I don't, I didn't realize I had a strong take on Jayden Daniels, but when I saw the QB eleven twelve price tag. I was like, man, I got him down at like probably like QB eighteen nineteen. I'm really far off where the industry is, and I think a lot of it is like you're seeing best ball players become like year round lifestyle NFL consumers, so rookie drafts and dynasty drafts immediately just converging into best ball. So I would be surprised if Jaden actually doesn't drop down significantly. But like, I'm very open to hearing the other side of the argument.

00:55:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the other side is literally rushing. It's quite literally rushing if you look at so I always look at quarterbacks in terms of they're passing points per game and then they're rushing points per game. Okay, since twenty eleven, we've had thirty five quarterbacks where the passer threw at three hundred more times. That's just a threshold to say he was the starter for his team and then he ran the ball five or more. Sorry, he ran the ball for five or more rushing fantasy points per game. So thirty five quarterbacks, right, It's not a guarantee that Daniels gets there, right, but I do think that he is a more prolific runner than the majority of guys that have come out. You know, I think we should feel confident that of the guys you know, in this class and such, that we should feel good about Jade Daniels being a relatively decent mobile quarterback. If you look at then those thirty five quarterbacks, the lowest number of Fantasy points scored per game of those thirty five is seventeen point three. And that was from Josh Allen during his rookie season, where we know his passing numbers just were not there at all, right, And so I think that there is a floor to Daniels. Now, I do think that people might be taking the ceiling a little bit too far with Daniels because if you look at this sample and you look at like the rookies, there's only two I think that stood that were part of the group, which was Josh Allen and Kyler Murray, and they were still both under eighteen Fantasy points. Right where the chance that Daniels is indeed like this excellent passer year one I don't think is very high. But I do understand the notion of shooting for upside. What if he is that guy? Right? Like, what if Daniel is the dude who can post thirty five hundred yards passing, which is relatively modest, and then twenty to twenty five passing touchdowns with strong rushing production. Then all of a sudden, he's like a locked in QB one in fantasy if he's able to do something like that, right, And then my other, my other thing to you, my other like not really argument, but like you know, sort of like talking about the Drake London to Garrett Wilson thing. I think this one's even more drastic, Like are you looking at Anthony richards in the same way, because because I'm I'm like, what's unbelievably higher on him?

00:57:33
Speaker 2: For no reason?

00:57:34
Speaker 1: No, no, but but I don't know. Here's the thing I think Richardson, like you talking about your lack of faith in Cliff Kingsbury, I would say that the Richardson thing is like you got Shane steich In, you have these these weapons that really play their role particularly well, like they're eighty Mitchell pick I didn't even you know, I wasn't like in love with Mitchell as a prospect. But if you can't recognize the fit with what they need, like it's very obvious right. I'm not gonna say you don't know ball, but like it's a very obvious fit. And then you have Jonathan Taylor back there, like you have this like really good environment for him. But at the same time, like you know, if and I'm not saying this is your argument, but if someone is is questioning Jane Daniels because of lack of experience, lookad Anthony Richardson, you know what I mean. Yeah, and he's going in round five versus going in round ten or whatever.

00:58:22
Speaker 2: I've thought about that quite a bit as I'm like doing my rankings and just looking around consensus and seeing Anthony Richardson just like shoot up boards despite playing like three games last year and kind of like almost proving people right where it's like he moves too much, he's gonna get hurt. And then he moved too much and he got hurt, and now we're like, yes, that's what we wanted. I'm like, I don't know, he just looks so fun playing, and I guess I don't know. In my mind, you see Jane Daniels and you think he's a little bit slimmer, and he's as fast and probably almost as good as an athlete not pound for pound obviously as Richardson, but it's much easier to come to the conclusion like Richardson's a gladiator, he's camp but they're gonna be can be anything on the field, So it doesn't actually make sense. But I yeah, I think the indie situation makes me feel a lot better. That is my thing with Jaden Daniels, where it's like he could throw for thirty five hundred twenty four touchdowns run for six hundred. I have such little faith in that happening, not because of him, but because of like Washington having the infrastructure around him to allow him to do that. So that's why I'm like, I'm more betting against Washington as a team than I am Jaden Daniels as a player.

00:59:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it makes sense, It makes sense, and I do think, like I said, I do think that, like I can see the upside case, which is why I'm still cool with Daniels and drafting Dan. Like, I think that it's absolutely good and fine to get him at QB eleven because I can see that upside case. But I do think there are people in the space that are taking that upside case a little bit too far because of what we've seen historically with rookie quarterbacks, even when they have been you know, mobile quarterbacks. One guy that you seem to also be a little bit lower on is Rashad White. I started the off season like, like in May, when if I look at adp and compared to projections, it's sort of like the starting point for me. I don't draft off of projections. I tell people not to draft off of projections because there's a lot more nuanced and contexts needed for you know, in fantasy football. But Rashad White like looks looks great in projections right Whenever you look at him, you're like, oh man, he's like RB eight right now, and projections very easy to see that. But then as sort of the month has gone on and I'm doing so many more drafts, I'm like, I don't know if I like him nearly as much as what these projections are saying. But what is it for you? Is it Bucky Irving? Is it the poor rushing efficiency? Do you just not think he's a special back?

01:00:38
Speaker 2: It's it's the poor Okay. So as I am thinking through this question, as I saw you know, us talking about it in the future, I'm like, man, I don't have. It's like I've learned this lesson so many times. I'm not someone who does projections, and I think they would probably help me if I did. I would like do projections and I would look at them and I'd be like, that's not real, you know, just like kind of wife it all.

01:01:01
Speaker 1: I mean, to be honest, I kind of still do that too. It's never gonna be a perfect science unless you're my never perfect.

01:01:06
Speaker 2: But like I the Rashad White sequence is something I've done before with James Connor, and I've done before with Joe Mixon, and I see them objectively and I look at the numbers and I say they're not special as running backs. Eventually this team is going to catch on to that and stop giving them the ball. But the teams never add anyone into the mix that actually says that that's going to happen, or.

01:01:29
Speaker 3: That you feel or that you feel like really really good about right like we talk ourselves in like last year, I'd be like, yeah, I don't really like James Connor, like kyentte Ingram's going to like work into like it's insane things that you start to say based on that and objectively Rashad White has been awful on the ground in each of the last two seasons, but that was also like coming out of college, I remember watching him and being like, yo, he's really like a fun back.

01:01:52
Speaker 2: He's very athletic, really good pass catcher, explosive, but like he's very raw as a runner, right, Like he's someone who I think like needs to get a little bit more refined. And that's kind of played itself out in the NFL. But I'm looking at the team and saying, like, oh, he's so inefficient as a runner, Like they're not going to use him the same way. And then they take Bucky Irving, who's one hundred and ninety pounds back that his strong suit is what Rashad White's already really really good at. So at the end of the day, it's like, Rashad White is not sexy, but he's gonna get two hundred and eighty five touches and he's probably gonna finish as like the boring RB eleven. So why am I fading him to RB sixteen or seventeen, Like there's no reason for it. So I actually, as I was thinking through this part of the show, sheet kind of changed my tune a little bit on Mishat White and I probably will be drafting a little bit more of him, Like you can get Rashad White at the same spot, so you can get like Xavier Worthy, And I'm like, dude, I really think Xavier Worthy is going to go for seven hundred yards this year, and I'm like, Rashad White in a bad situation or like, at worst, it's probably going to give you a grand maybe eleven hundred and like seven touchdowns. So I think I'm like overthinking some of these backs where the team the team are they're not telling you that they're moving on from this guy, right James Connor. I finally you can you can feel okay about being like I don't like James Connor anymore because they finally added Trey Benson and it's like, that's not the case in my opinion for a day three undersized running back to move into Rashad White. So realistically, I just made the case for a shod White. I guess I'm back in baby.

01:03:18
Speaker 1: Look at that. Look at that. My take has been what if this year's Rashad White is Rashad White, like probably the case, Like, like I don't I felt a lot more confident, like a month ago, I'm not gonna lie because I started doing more and more like running back dead zone research and stuff, and you know he doesn't he doesn't not check some boxes. But again, like we don't want a draft running backs, especially in this area of the draft typically where the answer is, well, who else is going to touch the ball? Because that is burned people. You know, look at Mike Davis with Cornero Patterson. Uh, you know there's examples upon example of that. But I I personally like I don't think White is like like I don't think he's a Mike Davis back right, Like I don't think he's as bad as Mike Davis.

01:04:00
Speaker 2: Totally replaceable, no way.

01:04:01
Speaker 1: Right, And like at the very least, like his his receiving numbers have actually been pretty good and his receiving ability we knew that coming in, like the crazy thing with Bucky Irving in look, anything can come to fruition and happen. We know that, like like like Bucky Irving might take over the backfield for all we know, like who knows what's what's gonna actually go down, But realistically, like Rashad White's receiving profile entering the NFL was better than Bucky Irving's in my opinion, and so like why and then and then all he's done has been a pretty solid receiver in the NFL, So why would we assume that that's just gonna go away because Bucky Irving's there? And then it comes down to, Okay, maybe Irving is a change of pace guy on the ground, which totally understand that. And I think that Irving's you know, sort of like maybe didn't get enough credit as a runner a little bit because the size and stuff. Maybe I didn't really like Irving that much as a prospect. I'm trying to I'm trying to look at the bowl case here for.

01:04:50
Speaker 2: For my I'm fucking I'm so out on Bucky Irving justice. He's like it reminds me of like Kenneth Gainwell a little bit, where like when he was coming out, he was like he was so good as a receiver that we just wanted to push that love into the running part of his game when it wasn't really there. And I feel the same way about about Bucky, where I'm like, I could objectively very you know, he's gonna catch passes and he's really good at doing that. Had they drafted like, uh, Blake Korum, who I think is a very good early down back who has great vision and he's very stable and like you can trust him to not fill from up the person second down. I'm like, that's a good pairing with Rashad White, where I might be a little bit scared that his carriers get like chopped down in half. That didn't happen. They they like drafted the guy that I'm like least worried about. Yeah, uh, because he's just so redundant to Rashad White.

01:05:36
Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, I I I get it. I'm I'm trying to do my best to not be because again this this this is the kind of like trap ish player that we've seen in the past. But I think that like there are other players like this that that are probably more of traps in my opinion, from like an archetype standpoint and like a dead zone like a like a Zamir White or something like that. Not to say that like like you know of it can go in to a lot of different directions like I've been saying, But it's like that's a situation where at least you look at like an Alexander Madison behind him, and you're like, yeah, he's I don't think he's that special. But I don't know how much more special Zamir White is than Alexander Madison.

01:06:15
Speaker 2: I was just about to say, going off of your quote before, like this year Zamir White, this year is Alexander Madison is probably Zamir White. You know. It's like it's staring at us right in the face, and it's going to be so obvious when we look back on it.

01:06:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, speaking of backfields, and this is a more ambiguous one. I love ambiguous backfields. I've been attacking them for years, talking about them for years on the show. I think the most interesting ambiguous backfield this year is the one in Cincinnati, because you get you know, Tennessee is intriguing with Spears and Pollard, but it's like, how good is that offense gonna be? You know, you get Pittsburgh, which I don't mind throwing darts at both of those guys in Pittsburgh for obvious reasons with Arthur Smith there, but like you look at Cincinnati, you're like, Okay, this is very good chance to be a top ten offense this year. And then they have these running backs with Joe Mixon gone, where everything's up for grabs, and you have these running backs who really haven't proven anything. So how are you sort of attacking that backfield?

01:07:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is I would agree, it's probably the most intriguing backfield that is so difficult to figure out. And I think one of the like the funnier things that I've noticed is like Buffalo, like, okay, they had Zach Moss, Devin Singletary who didn't do anything while they were there, or at least like hitting no upside as soon as they moved, Like Zach Moss went crazy in Indie last year. Devin Singletary I feel like didn't get his flowers for the games he had, Like he was great for Houston in like four or five games. I'm like, what were they doing in Buffalo all those years? And they couldn't figure out until James Cook. So I'm looking at these backs and I'm like, maybe they're a little bit better than we're giving them credit for. Maybe Zach Moss's is okay. I remember liking him coming out as a prospect. He was like a great tackle breaker. He's got the size obviously, and I mean the intriguing part is, of course, Joe Mixon not being there. Joe Mixon's role was so like prolific in his seven year tenure. The dude averaged twenty opportunities per game like over a seven year span, which is unheard of in today's NFL. And now you're trying to figure out, like where does that go? And I don't know if you need to figure out exactly where all the touches go, but I do think figuring out the goal line role will be the most important because Joe Mixon is a guy who, over the last five years, outside of the one year where he missed like ten games, was a top five goal line back in terms of just pure volume down there. Someone's going to get him, and it's probably going to be Zach Moss, which is like where I lean in redraft. But you could tell by how the season progressed down the second half last year that they feel relatively comfortable with Chase Brown. He's obviously more explosive, he's a pretty good pass catcher, and I think he can step up and play well if given the opportunity to. But the signing of Zach Moss tells me that they probably feel like he has a very clear role as the starter and mix into I think one of the draws was like, there's a reason they always continue worked in Joe Giovanni Bernard and then some majp Ryans because Joe Mixon is not a good pass blocker. I think Zach Moss is a lot better in that part of the game. So I think there might be some sneaky upside to Zach Moss there. Do I feel confident that it's gonna that it's going to like play out over the course of the season. No, not at all. Zach Moss feels like in that Zamir White land and that Alexander Madison land where you're like, I don't know if I why that this guy's good enough to like hold off anybody for a full year. So I actually feel okay drafting both of these guys where they're going in drafts, Like I think Zach Moss is like pick ninety five or one hundred, and then Chase Brown's like pick one point thirty, And I'm like, you know what, I don't mind either of these guys's value. I don't really have a strong take, but straight up I'm gonna go Moss there.

01:09:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I agree. You know, there's a lot of data that I've looked at that says that Chase Brown is not good. And then there's a lot of data that I've looked at that says we should be targeting this kind of arc type, this guy who second year player, pass catcher, explosive in an ambiguous backfield like that. Those are the check check check check.

01:10:00
Speaker 2: But then it's so easy in theory, and then when you got to do.

01:10:03
Speaker 1: It, it's like, yeah, man, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I've been I've been getting both of them as well, obviously not in the same team, but just you know, getting pieces of the backfield because not only that, but like from a best ball standpoint, it wouldn't shock anywhere, shouldn't shock anyone if like one of the misses two weeks with like a low ankle or something like that, or a week and then the other guy just for that week is the bell cow and that's all you need in a playoff week to really take your team over the top. All right, I got one last question for you, Nick, Who's the one player they're gonna try to leave every draft with this year? I love that that's always the phrase that people use with these questions when like, of course you're not gonna get this guy in every single draft, but you know what I'm trying to say.

01:10:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna give you two. One's a vibe pick and then one's a guy that I've actually is my highest known player in underdog drafts. The vibe pick is Devon Han. I feel like you're either in on him or you're not. And I love him, love him coming out of Texas A and M. And I just like, I can't imagine you watched him play last year and been like, ah, he's he's like top five most electric players in the NFL and was averaging like twenty five Fantasy point. It wasn't just like one good game or two good games.

01:11:07
Speaker 1: He had like five.

01:11:08
Speaker 2: Games out of nine of over like twenty five fantasy points. And I'm like, I feel as if if you fade him this year, you are possibly missing out on like the twenty thirteen Jamal Charles season, right, And I'm like, I don't want to look back and miss out on the obvious league winner when we look back. I get it the size concerns, but like, look at every single running back getting drafted one to two to three spots above him and one to two three spots below him. And you show me a guy that hasn't been injured or missed a full year from an acl or knie brains or high ankle sprains, and I'll show you a liar, because every single running back just gets hurt all the time, so like trying to predict the injury is fucking insane to me. And he's the VIE pick for me. Some guy you mentioned before, Naji Harris. He is a guy that I'm drafting in like all the underdog drafts because you're getting him at such an insane price of like eighth ninth round right now. And I've never really been liked him as a rookie, was off him as his price like the last two years, was not a huge fan of him. But this Pittsburgh team has now invested you know, first round picks in back to back years on the offensive line. They have Arthur Smith coming over, so they're going to run the shit out of the ball. And I think one of the underrated things not really being talked about is like the reason Nage was so great as a rookie was because his passing numbers were so high, and with Deontay Johnson gone, that's like one hundred and forty targets a year basically out of that offense. I could see. You know, obviously Jalen Warren is going to eat into it a little bit, but even if Nase averages an extra like target to at one point three targets per game over the course of the season, that's massive for you know, a running back in terms of PPR fantasy points. So I'm talking about a guy who's like he's never seen fewer than two hundred and eighty five touches in a year. He scored at least eight touchdowns, So like getting that production in round eight. I also think, like the way that they finished each of the last two seasons show you that they're not giving Jalen Warren the three down workhorse role, Like they're just not giving that backfield to them. They feel they feel comfortable with Nause behind whoever it is under center. I also think this offense could probably have a lot more stability with Russ under center than Kenny Pickett. So I just don't think it could get worse than it was in Pittsburgh last year, and we saw a Nausey at his worse. I just like the value is crazy to me.

01:13:18
Speaker 1: No, no, I agree. And the other thing with nause is the contingent upside. Like again, if you're in week fifteen, sixteen seventeen and you can say, look, you can make a similar ish argument for Jalen Warren. Don't get me wrong, but like like if you're in week fifteen, sixteen seventeen and one of those guys is out and the other guys at bell Cow, that's huge, massive value in this kind of offense. So I hear you. I've been drafting the Pittsburgh Backs as well, and nause it's like a very easy especially as you're going wide receiver heavy and you kind of just want like some stability at running back and you're if you're going zero RB, it's just really easy to just click that button and going I mean, between.

01:13:51
Speaker 2: Him and Chad White, you're getting like six hundred touches, you know, and like the fifth and eighth round and I'm like, okay, you know, like it's boring, but like it'll work.

01:13:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that tier with like White and them, they just keep falling and falling too, so you're able to get some great value, Nick, it was great to chop it up man as always. Can you let everyone know where they can find.

01:14:08
Speaker 2: You, Yes, sir, pretty much just BDG across the board. YouTube. If you're into Dynasty, we have a Dynasty channel. We have the regular Fantasy channel, which focuses on redraft going into the season, and we do a bunch of like NFL trivia if you guys are into games and stuff like that, we've got them going up daily on our TikTok and then we also have a trivia YouTube channel. So just if you type in BG, we'll you'll probably be able to find us somewhere.

01:14:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, you guys are doing awesome stuff as usual. We can find all my stuff over on Late round dot com, pre order the Draft Guide, fine on Twitter at Late Round, QB all that good stuff. Otherwise, everyone, thank you for tuning in.