Koepka's Return, LIV's Future, & Storylines for 2026

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Speaker 1: I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.

00:00:05
Speaker 2: And when I find my ball in a fried.

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Speaker 3: Egg Friday Egg, the dreaded Friday Friday, fridagg Fridagg brid Egg.

00:00:11
Speaker 1: Lie, I'm about ready to run off of the course.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Friday Golf Podcast. I'm your host, Andy Johnson. Today I am joined by Friday Golf's own Kevin van Volkenberg and Joseph Lamannia to bat around a bunch of subjects, including Brooks Koepka's news, the news that it will be back on tour UH, as well as do a little bit of like kind of some season preview stuff. As a note, we recorded this last Wednesday, you know, following Chris got her Up's win at Hawaii. That was something I brought up, was Chris got her Up. I wish we had aired this earlier so I could say, hey, look at this, but this was recorded last Wednesday. One of my predictions not to spoil, to be play spoiler, was a guy like Chris got her Up might break out and become a top twelve player in the world. He is now seventeenth but he won at Sony. This was a really fun chat. I'm looking forward to having this crew on probably about just about once every month where we'll bat around subjects and topics. If you have anything that you'd like us to discuss in the future, feel free to send that in. All right, let's get to Kevin and Joseph. All right, today I'm joined by Friday Golf's very owned Kevin van Balkenberg and Joseph Lamannia to uh, two gentlemen that are dedicated to the pro golf beat. It's been a uh, it's been a fast paced such starts of the year with news it felt like golf's version of a WOJ bomb came in with Brooks Kopka returning to the PGA Tour after a uh ah, a stint with the UH with the Live Golf League, really since the beginnings of of Live Golf, Brooks is back.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 2: He did you know he had to pay the troll toll to get back on the PGA Tour. He Uh he had a five million dollar charitable contribution, which is of course tax deductible. He is not a veil. He's not eligible for the player Equity program. He's not eligible for FedEx Cup playoff playoff payouts bonuses from that.

00:02:55
Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: He is not eligible for signature event exempt, but he can earn his way in like he can earn his way into the the FedEx Cup, and he will not be taking away spots and fields. If anything, he is adding to them by bringing people along to make uneven numbers, you know, workout. So this was all kind of headed up by Brian Rolapp, the new CEO of PGA Tour Enterprises, and really is a I think a landmark decision in this kind of war with Live that has now spanned nearly five years of our lives. It is the PGA Tour going on the offensive bringing Brooks back. Now that's enough of the details. Joseph and Kevin, what do you guys make of Brooks Kopka's return to the PGA Tour.

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Speaker 4: Gooheck, Kevin.

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Speaker 5: I think it's good for golf in general. I think it's clear that Brooks was not particularly in love with playing on the Live Tour. He has been kind of whispering, see anybody who would listen in private over the last few years that he wishes that he could go back in time and do this differently. And now he's got a fresh start. You know, his results in majors were not particularly good last year, and I think that golf overall will benefit from a more focused, happier Brooks Koepka. You know, I don't know about the whole spending more time with my family stuff here and there, like only Brooks could speak to that. But I think, you know, it doesn't necessarily I think make for a super competitive element to the PGA Tour because Brooks has never shown that he's like all that interested in PGA Tour golf. But if it does help him get sharp in majors, I think it's a big win for us all because Brooks's true needle mover in majors and seeing him play well in there would be a true like rising tide lifts all boats kind of situation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think this candage poorly, but from a Brooks Koepka standpoint, as Kevin alluded to, like, he doesn't really care that much about his PGA Tour performances, so I'm not sure this is going to be some kind of boon to the PGA Tour product. Hopefully we see Brooks and some majors playing well, But to me, The most significant part of this news is that Briant it does signify Brian roll App starting to put his thumb on the scale a little bit and feel confident about the position that the tour is in, that more guys aren't going to leave. Like a little bit of a more frictionless coming and going between the tours I think would benefit a lot of people. And I think clearly roll At feels like they're not really at risk of more PGA tour defections. See who Kim didn't go, Like there's rumors that Max Grazerman got a big deal he didn't go. So I think the PJA Tour has to be feeling pretty good about their position in this window, this one time window that expires on February tecond even if none of the other golfers are taking it.

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Speaker 4: Bryson cam Smith.

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Speaker 3: Rom, I think it still signifies that they're now dealing in a position of strength.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I echo that. I think one of the big things from the perspective of the tour as a whole, this was really the first move where you could feel like this is no longer the nonprofit member run organization.

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Speaker 4: This is a.

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Speaker 2: This is a move that signifies the understanding of we are an organization that is actively attempting to make money, and we are actively trying to add value to our equity holders, which are the players. You see it from the reaction also of the players where we haven't heard anything, or we will hear something if we hear you know, jamesn chirping about this. Yeah, sure, like that might be just a one off, but all in all, it seems like the players are behind this, and it might be a sign of them understanding, Hey, Brooks adds value to this tour, and I own the tour, so it is a good thing for me. If Brooks is playing high level golf on this tour. You know, the question of does Brooks play high level golf on this tour is a big one. But in Brooks kept coming back, whether he plays well or plays poorly, you are getting one of the ten most marketable golfers in the sport, without a doubt. I think I think he probably is like right around top five is where you'd where you'd have him. Is one of the most marketable players in the sport, and the tour is better off having him than not having them. And I think it'll be interesting to see if there's some rejuvenation. Uh, nobody does their best work happy, and he clearly, as Kevin alluded to, was not really happy where he was. So I'm curious to see the player reaction as we kind of get away from the blast radius. As you know, you know that the golf schedule is opening up, more and more players are available to reporters. What is you know, the overarching philosophy of the players. But I think where they won here was like, you know, the only people that are that that are eligible to come back by their criteria is Bryson, h Rom and Cam Smith. And and that is like kind of like saying we really only wanted Bryson, rom and h and Brooks was you know what I engaged it from. And camp Smith just happened to fall under this this classification as well.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, even if Cam Smith wanted to come back, I'm not sure that his game at the current state would be competitive enough for the PG Tour. And so it was no surprise to see him just basically like yeah, mate, I'm I'm good, Like I'm I'm happy to where I am. So I don't know, I mean, like the Bryson is really like a bigger domino, I think even than Ram in some ways, Like I just don't see a realistic scenario where John Ram could get out of his contract, nor would it It would take such an ego sort of swallowing moment for John to admit, like, hey, I thought that this was the right play and clearly it wasn't. But Bryson has a kind of an interesting out right like he see him say it, even if it's a negotiating position like hey, I'm only committed to this through another year, Like Bryson could very easily say like yeah, I'm I'm happy to leave this once it's done. They just couldn't meet my price and go back to, you know, playing a more competitive tour. I just it's impossible to predict what Bryson will want to do. But I think it sort of segues a little bit andy into the next moment of like what is the future of Live, Like where what if these guys go or stay? Like are we at sort of an inflection point where you know, it could kind of be the beginning of the end or is it just kind of doesn't matter?

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Speaker 2: I think the you know, one one other question I had about this was like, you know the player return pro, you know, the return program they have set up. They have this hard deadline. You know, if a year from now, you know, before we get to the future of Live, if a year from now, you know rom Or or Bryson wants to come back, are they going to say no. I just don't see that being I don't see that happening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think look, as someone who covered the NFL for a long time and kind of knows a little bit about how Roger Goodell operates, like you can see some of the influence that in rollaps reasoning and thinking, and it's probably why he's a better CEO, certainly more than Jay Monahan. Now, Like part of the trade off, and I wrote a bit about this this week in the newsletter, is like this is what the powers that you know, roll Up got in exchange for like a three billion dollar investment from you know, SSG. Like there was no scenario where Jay Monahan was going to be able to sort of ram this kind of legislation through in the same way that the role app could. But like, if you want that three billion dollars of investment, then like Rollap's going to come in and he's going to instead of just like, you know, taking the the input of Peter maul Natty, he's taking the input of like Arthur blank like and so I think that certainly weighs a lot more in this equation Rollapp. You're right, the NFL changes the rules every year and they change things to benefit what they feel like the product is going to be immediately. And so it wouldn't surprise me at all if he was like, yeah, we said that was the deadline, but you know what, now we're ripping up a new deadline and now Bryson is welcome back in twenty twenty seven. So I think, you know, and that's probably the best move for now. That'll come with a little bit of downside too, in that, like the nostalgia element of things is not going to really factor into rollapps decision making. That that's why we might see Hawaii go away. That's why we're going to see like career money exemptions probably go away. But that's what you know is best for the business, probably, Joseph.

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Speaker 2: Outside of the names that fit the player the return program, you know, the people coming back, who would be the other names that you would be keen to get back on the tour that you see value on in live, you know that's that are on live that you would see value in a return to the PGA Tour, because I don't think there are a ton But you know, outside those two, you know, with the qualifications the way they set them, you know a lot of rumors maybe to exclude Phil Nicholson, which it seems like probably was the case. But where what are the other names that might fall under, like, hey, this would be a nice player that you'd like to see back.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess there's two parts of that one.

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Speaker 3: Some names would be nice to see back because they're good golfers, and then other ones are needle movers, and I don't think there are many needle movers. Probably the only ones would be Dustin Johnson and Phil Mickelson. And I don't know that either of those golfers is either super competitive right now nor wants to return to the PGA Tour outside of.

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Speaker 1: That today for four years.

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Speaker 2: On a new boat, but.

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Speaker 3: I'd love to see, Yeah, if Dustin Johnson was showed a little form, he'd be cool to have back. But I don't think we're ever going to see that again. Patrick Reid, Joaquin Neeman like Tyrrell Hatton. I think those are golfers who are clearly good enough when they're on to be playing on the PGA Tour and would add value that way. But I don't know that ratings or anything tangible to the business would go up if those golfers rejoined. And then after that, I think you're talking about young names who haven't quite developed yet, who two or three years from now could be beneficial to have on the most competitive tour in the world. Right you're David Pooge, josele By Astero, potentially somebody like a mckibbon and Elvis Smiley, a Caleb Serrat if those golfers develop a little bit more. But honestly, I don't I don't think there's anybody the PGA Tour really needs.

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Speaker 2: To frame kind of the conversation of the future of live and it kind of pickybacks off what you just said. In your estimation, what percentage of the live Golf Tour is of the caliber of a top one hundred player on the PGA Tour.

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Speaker 3: I'd say to be a signature event level, so top fifty there's probably six to eight, and then after that that could make top one hundred, another five to eight. I'd have to look at the roster laid out, but the back half of live is super weak and uncompetitive and would have no.

00:14:44
Speaker 4: Chance of hanging on the PGA Tour.

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Speaker 3: So we're really talking about probably ten names, Like I don't We'll see what kind of year Carlos Ortiz has. But is anybody really thinking about Carlos Ortiz turning? Yeah, I mean he's a pretty good player, but like, sure he could keep his PGA Tour card, but does that actually really matter? Are you trying to include Carlos Ortiz in the returning returning member program?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where I kind of fall is like, if I went through the roster, I think I'd get to about twenty names of real bona fide PGA Tour quality players. Maybe, you know, that's like where you could get to, like, Okay, this guy could play and you know, keep his you know, any of them could have a bad year and lose their card, but could play, and I could see keeping a card on the PGA Tour, you know, like your Harold Varner's of the world. Like, I don't think he's really what he was before he got the bag, but like a in a grand scheme of things. We've seen him be a top fifty PGA Tour player before the I think, like when you talk about live In, this kind of can frame up like where we're going from here. This feels like a big blow to live losing brooks Kopka, the uncertainty of rice In right now. And really, you know, when you look at live In in the you know, since twenty twenty one, twenty two, when this league got off the ground, you know where it's gotten to is that they have a grouping of of of talented players, a small grouping of talented players in small fields. As we just mentioned these these players make up a small percentage of the field, and they they have not resonated with with fans. There's been a copious amount of money spent, you know, five billion plus dollars spent to create this league, and I think there's more uncertainty you know it it currently is run the way it's run, it's run by a softeign wealth fund that could fund this forever and it be a blip on the radar. But I think this puts into a it puts a real question of what is the future and where does LIV go from here? Because it you know, if they're off season struggles of signing players is anything. You know, they they had dalliances and rumors with a number of players from box Shape Batia to Max Grazerman to h Seewou Kim and none of them went. You know, they ended you know, they ended up getting Elvis Smiley, a DP World Tour player, promising young player was kind of you know, their big addition this year. And you know, if you don't count Lori Canter, you know these you.

00:17:35
Speaker 1: Know they with disrespect to Tommy though that's true.

00:17:41
Speaker 2: Flock that out. But yeah, top D three would be the bona fide. But you know the question I I, you know, is what what does the next five to ten years of Live look like? Assuming it exists in five to ten years.

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Speaker 5: You know, I don't want to be one of those people who's like, oh, yeah, Live is done. Live is dead, because I don't think that's necessarily true. But I I just wonder, like, what is the point where they're going to like gain momentum to where they're going to become a success. Like John Rahm didn't make any difference. Brooks Kopka, Bryson de Shambo hasn't really made a difference, and now.

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Speaker 2: Is the only one that's made it different.

00:18:24
Speaker 5: Even that, though like I will say, Bryson probably has made uh there's I would say what eighty percent of the people who come to live events are like seeing Bryson is like a high priority on their list, right, that's one of the biggest reasons they want to come to that. So, you know, signing Bryson for the next four or five years would be huge for Live, right, Like that's the only thing I think at this point that's probably not even like keeping them off life support, but just having any chance of that like, hey, someday five years from now, you are like an equal, you know, spot in the world. As in terms of golf tours, Like if you lose Bryson, I don't see the path that goes to that.

00:19:08
Speaker 1: Right.

00:19:08
Speaker 5: If you keep Bryson, well maybe things a lot of things still got to go your way, and he's got to be truly like you know, emerges like the best player in the world, winning two or three more majors. But if you lose him, Like if I Bryson, I would be so thrilled right now, I'd be like you know eight hundred million is the starting offer that you need to offer me. You know, I'm like fifty percent more than you offer John rom And if you don't want to do that, like, screw it. I'll go make less money over on Live, but I'll do it, Or on the PGA tour but I'll do as much of my YouTube stuff as I want. Or I'll just try to become the mister Beast of golf and YouTube and not play on either tour. Like I don't you know, at this point, he's got a lot of money, so he doesn't really like need more money, but like hec is sure in a good position to ask for more of it.

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Speaker 3: Dy, I don't want to sound too much like nothing matters, but I do think pretty much nothing matters that Live does.

00:20:03
Speaker 4: Honestly, there's no catalysts. They could sign Rory or Scottie.

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Speaker 3: That would probably be the only thing that moves any kind of needle, and I don't think either of those players has any interest in playing for Live.

00:20:15
Speaker 4: There's no indication that they do.

00:20:18
Speaker 3: Maybe Live South Africa's cool this year and at the end of the year they can say, well, Live Australia and Live South Africa work very well. Like that's the only things I can really see working. Nobody cares about the team event championship anymore or ever to start with, I don't see any way that the league gains any sort of momentum, and I think it's just around until Yaser decides that he's done with it, or somebody offers Yaser some kind of exit ramp so that it's not an embarrassment, and then they sort of frame it as this is the next evolution of Live. Maybe it's some kind of partnership with the DP World Tour. I don't know what that would look like, but I think acting like them signing somebody else or even one of their young guys winning a Major or something like that's gonna have any impact on the popularity of the league at this point. It's pretty delusional based on what we've witnessed the last five years.

00:21:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's clearly that the market's rejecting, at least the the American market has rejected the product. Now like before I get you know, in trouble like that, As you said, said, Live Australia has been a success. My question though, is you know, when you talk about five years from now, is you know, if in a couple of years Rom's contracts done, he leaves in a couple of years, you know, if Bryson doesn't remain. You know, the real appeal of Live Australia was we're bringing some of the top players in the game to Australia, a place people have forgotten about. There are Defeat World events, Australia Tour events in Australia, there is pro golf. And at a certain point with the with Live and why they're almost you know, this is actually kind of a pun and and it held hostage by Bryson. Usually it's the other way around. The One of the reasons that that exists is like their their premise as this what they're trying to be, This World Tour has to be having a collection of the best players in the world. And when they don't, when it becomes if it becomes just you know that, like if we're gonna be blunt here, like you know, Phil Mickelson and Dustin Johnson are not world class players anymore, world class names, not players. When it becomes if it becomes just Rom and Tyrrell Hatton and you know, Joaquin Neeman, you've lost a lot of that appeal of yeah, we're bringing like That's where Brooks had a lot of value, was this is a five time major winner, this is a this is a guy that won a PGA Championship two years ago and is without question one of the great players of this generation that still exists today. And I think that's where all of a sudden, you know, losing Brooks and if they lose you know, the the kind of they would call it in corporate world, brain drain, you know of you know, where you start to lose players like that appeal to Australia becomes less.

00:23:24
Speaker 5: You know what I think Live is in the toughest spot is if you could go back and reimagine this if Live was just a true team golf thing, I think you could get behind it so much better. Like it would be if you could say, like, hey, these guys are welcome to go play on the PGA Tour whenever they want, but these team events are going to be sort of you know, we're going to have four teams in every event, and the two teams are going to play each other in semi finals on the first day or whatever, and then the two teams are going to meet and a match play in the finals, and I could see like that being so much more interesting and different and appealing if you as long as you remove the whatever, the moral element of the funding stuff, Like I think that would be such a better way to sort of make it, to differentiate it.

00:24:06
Speaker 1: It's they're in the pickle in that.

00:24:08
Speaker 5: Like, in order to make it a worldwide tour that's super appealing to people, you had to promise these guys that, like, hey, we're going to get world ranking points, so you won't lose out on this jon Ram like you can come here and eventually like you'll earn your way into majors through live events. And so we have to have a stroke play element to it. But man, if they really wanted to make it like F one or like cricket or whatever, it should just be a team thing. Like that's when the appeal of like, hey, the South Koreans versus the South Africans, like you could develop real rivalries that way, the Australians versus you know, the US. All of that sounds kind of fun, But when you're saying like trying to split the baby and be like, oh, well, this is the stroke play element, this is the team element, but really, the team play, oh it really, the team stuff really matters.

00:24:55
Speaker 1: No one gives a shit about that stuff.

00:24:57
Speaker 5: And that's why the captaincy stuff and the equity stuff and the branding stuff just never really works. Is because you're trying to be two different things at the same time.

00:25:07
Speaker 2: I think when if you if you replayed you know different moments in history, and this is always easy to do when you sit back. But you know if obviously Jay Bonahan blood on his hands, he didn't pick up the call. But if you think about live in a in a regard of you know, it wasn't the right time for a partnership with the PGA Tour, and I don't think now is the right time.

00:25:33
Speaker 1: You know.

00:25:33
Speaker 2: Will z Al Torris was on this podcast last week and he, you know, his comment was like, you know, when you look at it, like what are we actually buying? All we want is a few players. There's nothing else to buy here. But when you think about if you gave a real innovative leader, and this is not Greg Norman. Greg Norman's a shitster. And for everybody saying Greg Norman was the perfect man for the job, well look what he's left you now luckily he's left, Yes sir, Now he's left, Yes, sir. He's spent five billion dollars and they have nothing. You know, he's a terrible leader with lack of innovation, Like just just went into it to to exercise a grudge, and in what's left is is really a valueless organization outside of a few names that they have under contract. The thing about you know, if you thought about this with an innovative leader, with you know, the current structure of the PGA Tour, if you went in today and said, I want to spend five billion dollars to develop this team golf format that I think could be really big, I think it would be you would end up with a a smash hit with the current leadership and the premise around it wouldn't be we have the washed up guys from England. No, what if we had the great players from England. What if it was you know, Terrell Hatton, Tobby Fleetwood and you know, Justin Rose and somebody else. What if you know, there were a couple teams from America that were you know, located across you know, you know there's a Jupiter team, a Dallas team, a Scottsdale team. You know, there's you know, there's the the Australians, Like if you created this format within the ecosystem without dividing the players and then making the teams all suck because of it, versus what they could be if there was unity, I think you'd end up with a killer golf format that could potentially, you know, overtake the popularity of the PGA Tour. But it wasn't ever. You know, I think you're right about like they had an identity crisis from the start and there wasn't a strong leader with a vision. There was a leader that was carrying out a grudge and that's why this thing failed.

00:28:10
Speaker 3: I agree with both of you to an extent, like if they've done the team thing from the beginning, it would have been more successful than the current product. Totally agree. I still think deep down, team golf, there's a lot of there's a lot that works about individual seventy two whole stroke play golf, and that might be the answer. Maybe we need to spread out the schedule a little bit more, but we might not need more golf and a new innovative format of golf, like just going to great venues, having competitive tournaments, building up the Australian Open. Maybe building up tournaments like the Irish Open and some other national opens like that might be enough and all this we're doing it wrong. There needs to be team golf, Like I'm not sold that any of that actually would have had a chance, and you would have run into some logistical issues like, Okay, somebody plays really well in a team event, it doesn't get any credit for it from an OWGR standpoint, isn't in the Masters, like guys would not have been okay with that. So part of me thinks we kind of have enough with call it twenty events, twenty two events, seventy two whole stroke play. That takes a lot of time. That's half the year. That's golfers preparing, letting their bodies rest. I'm not sure we need more golf.

00:29:24
Speaker 2: It's a fair plin. What's your prediction five years from now? Does Live exist and what does it look like.

00:29:35
Speaker 5: I think it gets folded into some form of the DP World Tour, like the unless Yasser is like sort of ousted as the head of the piff entirely, and then that just kind of goes away almost immediately. I think that the face saving will include like well, you know, hey, this is going to sponsor like four events on the dep World Tour, or it's going to sponsor the you know, end of the year race to Dubai is going to be like you know, part of the public investment fund or a RAMCO or something. I just, you know, I think that the moment when there was maybe a moment when it could have it could have tipped, when the inflection point came and it just didn't happen. But I just at this point, I don't see how it ever is bigger than it is right now. And I think that you could say that it's contracting in some ways right now, like that this might be the high point of live or it was six months ago.

00:30:35
Speaker 3: I don't think Team golf will exist in five years. So mostly agreeing with Kevin here, like about I was going to say outdoor team golf, but I'm not so sure about that. I could see some kind of merge or like, okay, the Australian event worked in the South African one, that's some franchise that there's got to be like some component of face saving. Yas are not wanting to admit total defeat. But I think the chances that torque exists or is rebranded five years from now is pretty low, but we'll see. They can run it as long as they want to run it.

00:31:11
Speaker 5: Let it be clear that the PITH had a chance to coexist as part of the ecosystem of the PGA tour. They were just insulted that the PGA Tour was like, all right, we value what you have here at eight hundred million dollars and we think that's generous. And they were insulted by that. They were like, there's no way like that. We've sunk five billion dollars into this. How can you say that that's what our value is? And that was like the biggest sticking point that and like you were not we can't get you in augusta national membership sorry, Like that is not going to be part of this negotiation. And so liv was like, all right, screw it. We think we can go out on our own and do you know, continue this along. And you know, it's like the President Trumps came in said he thought he was going to fix it, and that obviously didn't happen. So like at that point, was there any way that this was going to actually ever come together and be part of it. I mean, I think Live can look back in five years and say we had a chance to be a huge part of professional golf and we passed on it kind of because of ego.

00:32:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I I think there's an adage and I think it's it's it's pressing at least to play Devil's advocate over the rest of the golf world. Is you never underestimate a very well funded competitor. True, these things, you know, companies and institutions are built over decades of time. And I think the you know, assuming they don't lose interest in golf, which I don't think it they will. It's a huge part of their you know, kind of future tourism as a country. I think they will continue to do this. And my question is, you know, at this point, if your Live and you're working under some constraint of like you have s many dollars per year, what is the pivot to me? What you have right now has to be completely blown up. And that is not admitting defeat. It's not admitting It is saying we are a startup, and you know, we're an extraordinary, extraordinarily well funded startup, but we are a startup. And sometimes your original idea, your original premise is wrong, and that's the exact time that you have to pivot. And to me, it feels like right now for Live It, they have to admit this was a terrible idea and they have to move to something else. And if they do that, there is a chance that when we talk ten twenty years down the line, that they could be chipping away at the you know, at the immense advantage that the tour holds over them.

00:33:56
Speaker 3: Right now, I'm just thinking out loud, but maybe that's abandoning the team competition trying to build really good individual tournaments with you still have it's some kind of team affiliation at the end of the year that maybe there's a team competition. Like not fully abandoning it, but this format has to go away. To your point, Andy, blow it up. Where there's both a team and an individual competition happening simultaneously, that is never going to work.

00:34:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, listen, I I think I kind of posed this a little bit on the shotgun start last week, but like to me, to me, if you wanted to ensure long term success, what you have to be and the maybe the biggest miss of live in this entirety to date. Was that realizing that golf, who the best golfer is today, you know, is rarely the same best golfer set of golfers in five years. And if you want to control golf, you have to control where the young talent is going. And if they pivoted to make a very friendly, young you know, very friendly league for young talent, I think that would be the bet I would make if I had billions of dollars at my disposal, and the way that I wanted to, you know, like in a way like does this hole right, this moment which feels like rock bottom for Live, does this moment spark them to develop that chip in the chip on their shoulder and and hey, we got to change stuff. But like if I was Live, I think that's what I would probably start to try and work towards, is how do we unravel what we have and build a format in a league that's super friendly to the best young players in the game and try and build something for the next twenty years around that.

00:35:55
Speaker 5: That theory, Well, go all in on the youngsters. Right, five years from now, all of a sudden, you have all the best players in the world.

00:36:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's and and that's the thing, is like the tour that that was one of their biggest advantages the whole time was the they control all the pathways and all the young talent in the sport. All right, let's take a quick break to talk about our partner, good Walk Coffee. This is what's helping fuel Friday Golf. It fuels my household. Here. We've got a couple collaborative coffee blends that we created with Goodwalk Coffee. As a reminder, we're partners with good Walk Coffee on this. The way it works is we have a revenue split when people buy our coffee, so it comes right directly to us. It's a really nice way for this partnership to work. And it's excellent coffee. That's the other piece this. We really really love the coffee. We have two different blends. We have the fried Egg Golf Blend, which is a medium light roast for people that like kind of a lighter roast, and then we have the Shotgun Start Blend, which is a medium dark roast. I live in a household where one person likes the Shotgun Start blend and one person likes the fried Egg blend. So you know, as natural. I'm losing out on that that battle. You can get our blends delivered to you on a subscription basis. They can come once a week, once every two weeks, or monthly. The nice thing is it's super fresh coffee. It's often roasted a couple days before you get it, which ensures the best tastiest cup. So if you're interested in subscribing, that's the way to do it. You'll never have to go to the grocery store again. You can go to Goodwockcoffee dot com slash fried egg to subscribe. If you use the code fried egg at checkout, you'll save twenty percent on your tire order. If you order a subscription, it'll be thirty percent off your first order and then ten percent off on all future shipments. You can either subscribe or you can buy a few bags. Try it out, see which one you like. We really appreciate all the support and everybody that does this program. Obviously, if you drink coffee, give it a shot. And that's Goodwalkcoffee dot com. Big thanks. Let's get back to our conversation with Kevin and Joseph. You know that we recorded this before the Sony. We'll have Sony results. So maybe I'll talk about what happened in the intro here, but I wanted to get you guys on to preview the year ahead and golf, and we each picked out three storylines or stories for the twenty twenties six season that we are watching. Who wants to go first?

00:39:05
Speaker 1: Just to fight it for?

00:39:06
Speaker 4: To you?

00:39:08
Speaker 2: All?

00:39:08
Speaker 4: Right?

00:39:09
Speaker 3: Did you guys just go three player driven storylines or three storylines?

00:39:12
Speaker 4: More broadly, I kind of did both, So it can lead with either one here.

00:39:17
Speaker 2: Minor mostly player driven. But they're storylines because they're about players and golf's and individual sport.

00:39:23
Speaker 3: Sure, okay, I'll start then with I think Tommy Fleetwood is one of the most compelling stories of twenty twenty six.

00:39:30
Speaker 1: I do.

00:39:30
Speaker 3: I think you can make the argument right now that he is the second best golfer in the world. And I know some people would take exception to that and say that's disrespectful to Rory, But I think the back half of the year, what Tommy's done over the past few months, getting that first win, then wins again in India, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that Rory, after such an emotional spent year traveling the globe would have a little bit of a step back in twenty twenty six. I think that's fairly reason to expect, sort of like he did after his Master's win, and for Tommy Fleetwood to be one of the players vying for that second spot. He's been incredible over the last few months. Andy, you guys made the point on the Shotgun Start after his India win that he's sort of ascended to a different level of superstardom. I think a lot of people enjoy that storyline of the golfer who's fallen short so many times, and he does seem to have tapped into a broader sports audience. Tommy's right there. I was just looking at results in signature events last year, limiting the data to signature events the most competitive fields right now outside of majors, Scott he was number one, gaining almost two and a half shots per round, and Tommy was number two at two shots around. Next is Rory at one point three, like a pretty significant gap behind Tommy, which, again, Tommy's major results have not been amazing. That is the next step for him to take. But now that he's proven he can win on the biggest stages outside of Majors, right with the tor Chainampionship. I think it's very reasonable for Tommy to be in the mix at Majors this year, potentially be the second player of the world. With that new found stardom, I think he's probably one of the most new ish compelling storylines. He's not a new golfer, but a new superstar profile type person.

00:41:18
Speaker 1: I like that.

00:41:18
Speaker 5: But is it fair to say that Tommy still gets a little nervy down the stretch like that, there's there's an element of mental sort of like, oh my god, am I really going to do it? Like I'm not convinced that one Tour Championship win in a field of thirty people and then some of them very disinterested is like means that like Tommy has gotten over all of that stuff, Like I want to see him great on a Saturday afternoon at the Masters, or you know, there's going to be a lot of a lot of chatter, a lot of talk when he goes back to Burkedale, Hey.

00:41:52
Speaker 1: This guy just right up the road.

00:41:54
Speaker 2: Oh, this is.

00:41:57
Speaker 1: What a great win this would be for the hometown.

00:41:59
Speaker 2: Boy.

00:42:00
Speaker 5: I don't think he's handled that kind of stuff particularly great in the past. I, you know, truly one of the nicest people in all of sports, not just golf. So I would love it if Tommy like emerged wearing a green jacket from this year. I'm just a little bit skeptical, Like, you know, is he do you think, like straight up you'd say better than rom better than Bryson, like better than Xander, like a fully healthy Xander. I just can't quite get there with that one, Jesseph.

00:42:28
Speaker 3: I think the he might get a little shaky down the final stretch is valid, but that is also one of the most tenuous narratives in golf. Time after time that was said about Xander Schoffley, and then he won two majors in twenty twenty four. People love to throw around though, like this guy can't get over the finish line, and then they do, and then it's like, oh, he got over it.

00:42:48
Speaker 2: Other sports, because there's only one winner and there's one hundred and fifty six players, And as I think, like one of the easiest things to do in in analysis is to say they aren't going to do it, especially in golf, because the percentages the likelihood are that they aren't going to get it done. You know, outside of like, really, Scotty, that's the right bet every tournament, you know, is to say he's not going to win.

00:43:19
Speaker 3: He also may not have to make a clutch five footer like people win golf tournaments up to going into eighteen and making a bogie and the other part of it that I was going to throw. In the major championship venues I do think set up pretty favorably for him this year. You mentioned Birkdale, but I mean Shinnacock. The last time we were at Shinnacock, Tommy Fleetwood following that really low Saturday round was right in the mix as well. I mean, that's a great golf course for Tommy Fleetwood. So I just think it's very reasonable to consider him a top two to four player in the world right now without feeling nervous about that at all. And if he wins a major championship this year, shouldn't surprise anybody.

00:43:56
Speaker 2: Who would be your top four players in the world right now now. So, you know, Scotty and you're saying Tommy too, how would it go? How would three and four look?

00:44:06
Speaker 3: Yeah, either Rory or Tommy too, And then I would put rom at four and I'd put. I think Xander and Bryson could easily end up working their way in that four or five fighting. Xander's gonna have a really good year. Somebody had tabbed to talk about on this on this podcast, but I would go, Yeah, Scotty, Rory, Tommy and Rom that would be my top four.

00:44:28
Speaker 2: Kevin, what's your story? What's your first one?

00:44:32
Speaker 5: All right, guys, Uh, my storyline is Jordan Speith. I think that our boy is going to be back, uh truly back. I think right now, you know, the the opportunity to buy on Speith Island has never been greater. Okay, I'm walking into the lions Den with two of the biggest speed skeptics here in the in the golf media industry. Uh but look like I'm telling you right now, Smith Island is open for development. Okay, There's there's low interest loans, there's tax incentives. We're often to just just cut regulations and completely ignore environmental concerns all for anyone who wants to buy. So the opportunity for him to be a top ten player at the end of the year, I think, is there is this realistic? Maybe not, but I think we're finally healthy. He's finally, you know, he's he just hads the third kid. Now he's got some space in between that. So all of that, the getting recover from the risk injury and having another kid into the mix, that's a twenty twenty five story going forward in goods position. With his swing obviously the last few years he's been driving it great. If you could just get that iron play back to like, you know, the plus you know, zero point eight strokes around. I think where it was when he was sort of one of the truly you know, elite players. Maybe that's a little bit, maybe it's zero point five. I think primed for a good year, we're gonna we're gonna win at least once. We're gonna contend in a major, truly contend a couple runners up, finishes in a spot on the President's Cup team.

00:46:11
Speaker 1: That is my storyline to watch.

00:46:13
Speaker 4: Go ahead, Andy, I mean.

00:46:17
Speaker 2: I think this is I'm curious, you know, as as someone who who maybe raised skepticism as early as anyone, Uh, I think the this has to be the last year that there's there's a belief if it doesn't happen, you know, because I feel like we've heard similar, similar storylines every year for the last six years.

00:46:43
Speaker 5: Now I can't speak to those I wasn't part of that. You know, this is the year, this is fully healed, ready to go.

00:46:50
Speaker 2: Now, I think like where I could get behind, like the idea you're healthy, you've worked your swing. I think I worked on your swing, your back, like you're in a good state of mind. I think the thing that's challenging for me at this point is when we saw Jordan Speith be a dominant player. He had had never faced adversity in his life, He had no scar tissue. He was this human being that you know was setting course records at age fourteen in Dallas. He was, you know, a wonder kid, the golden child. And he rolls up onto the PGA Tour, gets his card by what he has adversity in the sense of the MISQ school, and then wins on a sponsor's exemption. And that's the rocket ship up where I struggle. As golf gets I mean, I can't even begin to like. Golf gets so much more challenging. When you lose, you know your how naive you are, and when you develop scar tissue, it goes to the Patrick Harrington you know, experiences and all of us cracked up to be. With experience, you lose innocence. And I think with Jordan, I think you know more so than the You know, my questions are not technical, They aren't about can he hit the ball? My questions are mentally can he get to the place he used to get to where he played golf free? And you know, I think this is the thing that Rory would tell you that he struggled with for years and years and years at Augusta. And for Jordan, it's not a struggle of one event a year. It's a struggle of I haven't done this. This used to come second nature to me, and now I haven't done this for a long time at any any semblance of a high level. And I think that's the challenge for Speeth. I also think and Joseph, I'm sure will hit on this, and it probably at a greater degree, is like the sheer level of competition from when we saw speF be the SPIF player that people you know fantasize about that tour is long gone. And I guess that's your your music, Joseph.

00:49:20
Speaker 3: I know I've floated this on this podcast before, but yeah, every sport I think there has been a rapid development from twenty fifteen to twenty twenty five, twenty twenty six, like not just the way that golf has played every sport and Jordan speif that was a long time ago, and he was making twenty five percent of his putts between fifteen and twenty five feet, which wasn't super sustainable. So you combine a ball striking standard that's gone way up over the past ten years with putting magic that we're probably not going to see again, and I do think you're chasing something that doesn't exist anymore. So is there a glimmer of hope? Sure, I could see him getting in the mix at like the Texas Open or something where he always plays well, or Scottsdale. But I think the chances of Jordan Speed contending in a major He's going to have to make so many putts, which is possible. He could get really hot and make some twenty five thirty footers at Augusta and sort of get in the mix. But I do think buying the other side of this argument is that the sharp side of golf history, like we always hear, We've heard this for years about Speed. Phil Mickelson going into last year said that Phil was going to have a resurgent year, like every golfer talks themselves into why they're going to have a breakout year. But I'm highly, highly skeptical, and I think the chances that Jordan Speed's a top ten player in the world again with any level of consistency is way below ten percent.

00:50:43
Speaker 2: It's I think, like one of the things though, and I would almost I think the smart vibe might actually be on Kevin's side. What Kevin's proposing is he wins, he contends a decent amount, and he makes a President's Cup team. And I do think, like Jordan Speith, I think his ceiling at this point as a player is he is going to be at the back end of the mix of auto selection for team competitions and if he's anywhere near the thing, he's going to get the captain's call, you know, And that's kind of where he's gonna sit. And I think, like we just have to re re calibrate, in my opinion, the expectation of Speth and like I'm not. I I want Jordan Speath to be relevant. I want him to play well.

00:51:39
Speaker 1: It's good.

00:51:40
Speaker 2: It's makes you know, makes watching golf more fun. I think we just as a society need to maybe recalibrate that, you know, like the ceiling on Jordan Speith is like he could be a top twenty player. I think the years of him being the best player in the world or I have a hard time getting.

00:51:58
Speaker 1: There, you know, and I think I wouldn't go there, no, and like and I think.

00:52:01
Speaker 2: That that's like where society wants to keep seeing him walk back through the door and remember the time when you know he was the greatest player of the world, and it's just it. I don't think that can happen. And I think it's like unfair almost unfair expectations to put on him.

00:52:17
Speaker 4: And is he within two of a major lead going into Sunday? Like to me, that is what meets Is that too high? Kevin Are?

00:52:25
Speaker 2: I think? Well, I think that the thing is Augustin National provides him a place that it's always possible there, which is why you can't slam the door because he's he's I mean, you gave him the stat with that. Zell Torus as a part of there's four players in the history of golf that finished in the top ten in their first three Masters and he's one of them. Like his game in the way it's made up with his short game prowess, it just matches up really well with that place.

00:52:54
Speaker 5: I think the Open Championship too. I think those those two championships in which he is in for life or you know, his competitive life, will give him opportunities that others won't. He's he has a very good mind for shot makers golf, right, It's just it is, does he have the same ability relative to the rest of the talent that is like, no, probably not, But like I really think, like when it comes to okay, the balls below my feet and I have to hit a draw off of this to a back pin, Like those are shots that Jordan is pretty good at comparative to guys who are just track man legends. And I still think like the Open Championship and Augusta will provide those opportunities. Is top ten probably a little ambitious, Yes, but you know, let's stick your neck out and make make a claim here. I think top thirty maybe more realistic. I just think, like we're truly healthy with the wrist. Golf is more interesting when he's in the mix, whether it's a crash and burn at the end, or whether it's the idea that he could drag it across the line, like I think, I think this is You're right, this is the year it's put up or shut up time with the caveat that, like he could win the Masters at forty one. You know, having been you know, crap for many years, which is the Masters has proven that those things occasionally happen.

00:54:19
Speaker 2: Is it amazing that this year we don't have the will Rory win a major storyline?

00:54:24
Speaker 4: It's kind of nice, Yeah, it is.

00:54:27
Speaker 2: I'm happy that we don't have to go back down that road. Maybe you know, the good news is if Spieth does this, we won't have to go down this road again next year. Yeah, I've got uh, I've got my storyline. Is our signature events, the much maligned signature events actually good?

00:54:53
Speaker 1: Do you have opposition on one side of it?

00:54:57
Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's a lot that that you could want more out of these. I would love bigger fields, I'd love cuts, I'd love things, But as I look at the current construct of them, the exclusivity of them, I kind of am excited about Sony Open and AMX and waste Management because of the plethora of big names that are attempting to play their way into signature events. I think if you remove the sponsor exemption opportunity from signature events, I think we're almost there. Because this year I have here, here are the players that do not have their signature event status. You know from big time names, right, you have Speeth Xalatorus Brooks, Max Homa, Wyndham Clark, Adam Scott. Those are all guys that are just trying to play their way into signature events.

00:55:55
Speaker 4: Wow, Tom Kim not even getting a mention anymore.

00:56:00
Speaker 2: Yah, Yeah, I don't. I don't know how to respond to that. But anyways, then you have like young guys like thorpe Jornsen. You have Pop Eater, Johnny Keefer, Marco Penje, you know, p Marco Pench. I have to pronounce it correctly here. I cannot allow that to come.

00:56:16
Speaker 1: Over star pronunciations on this podcast.

00:56:18
Speaker 2: Marco penge uh, you know you have you have guys like that that are also trying to play their way in and in a couple of years removed from this. I think that that is a pretty riveting undercard to these regular events. And I think it's something to take away when you start to talk about the scarcity schedule, how it could work if you really boiled it down to everybody plays X amount of events and there's free flow in this seems like it there's there's relegation. If you got rid of these sponsors exemptions and you told me that Speith had to play his way in to cert to these things, I think that's a really good recipe for the tour. They just have to rip the band aid off because the reality of these these events is the sponsors exemptions are going to those guys that I just listed, and that's the most compelling part of having to play your way in if they don't have sponsors exemptions.

00:57:19
Speaker 3: I think what I've learned is that the problem isn't that AT and T needs Jordan Speed to be playing pebble beach. I think they need him to be playing, to be showing up to corporate events and stuff that week.

00:57:30
Speaker 4: And how are you.

00:57:31
Speaker 3: Cutting this massive check as AT and T and not having one of your biggest ambassadors on site that week.

00:57:36
Speaker 4: That seems to be the hang.

00:57:37
Speaker 3: Out a path daily Finem, Well, that's true, but I completely agree Andy, you're preaching to the choir with this. I think the fields just need to be a little bigger and maybe there need to be a couple more of them, which sounds like that might be what we're getting in twenty twenty seven, a little bit of a bigger schedule from a signature event standpoint, a smaller schedule overall, but like more of a blend between the Corn Fairy Tour and the non signature events. A few more signature events that might be like ninety one hundred players and a cut line that's an amazing product.

00:58:05
Speaker 5: In my opinion, I think the best thing maybe along this line that the Brian roll Up could do is help golf move on from its like obsession with nostalgia. Like this idea that like you know, hey, like you know, Ricky Fowler and Jordan Speed are like the most important things. It would it would be like if the NFL was like, well we got to have like Philip Rivers get a quarterback, you know, spot Drew Brees has got to play somewhere, Joseph watching because yeah, you know, if if that was continuing like over and over again, we're still hanging on to people who clearly like we're yesterday's greats, then you know, I think the VJ thing is really interesting, right, Like I one of my storylines is how many tournaments will VJ try to jam up the tour and play because and what will like VJ like make some cuts in there and just be like sort of, you know, will VJ do media all year or we just basically like you know, declined to talk about any of this and just absolutely take up a spot in every single tournament.

00:59:11
Speaker 1: I'm all for it. I think it would be such a funny thing.

00:59:14
Speaker 5: And VJ was just like, I'm going to stick it to the tour every single way that I can over the last if you're just like going into uh, you know, craft services and loading up his plate with as much food as possible, I mean like I'm getting my value out of this last year. I'm I'm pocketing the shampoos in the in the player showers. I'm doing everything I can to say one last f you goodbye to this place.

00:59:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this is the thing they have to They have to rip the band aid off on these on exemptions in general. Like if I miss thirty cuts and I get like have an out of body putting week one week and I get it done and I win, that doesn't mean I should get to bed Tour for two years. I know winning is challenging, but like the if you talk to any great player, they're they're trying to be more consistent. Consistency is is the core, you know, you know, consistently great is the thing that every player is trying to be, not have one great moment, right, And I think like these these signature events, if you focus on, like can we get these at the best possible venues we can? And we can we make it a pure meritocracy where we have this relegation and promotion element that works really well in soccer or European football, and I think would work really well for golf. We saw this when Justin Thomas was playing Windham a few years ago, and like just how riveting it was to watch him try and make the cut so we had a chance to finish in the top seventy. This is the core of what your product should be. And I think like, as I sat and looked at this list, I realized, like God, if sponsor's exemptions didn't exist, this would be fascinating and it's going to be fascinating with Brooks Koepka because he is not eligible for sponsors exemptions into signature events is going to be fascinating, Like does he play all these events trying to get in to keep upping his status on tour, which you know, I think he's going to It seems like if he went through and he's paying all this money, you know, or he's doing the five bit, you know, like if he's going through this, he wants to play pro golf for a while.

01:01:44
Speaker 3: The only part I pushed back on, I think to your exemption actually is not a bad idea for somebody like Nick Dunlap and trying to entice young talent to play on the tour. Like I understand Brian Campbell, you know, won a couple times last year and isn't necess.

01:02:00
Speaker 2: A PGA Tour player the Illinois Golfers.

01:02:04
Speaker 3: But I don't think it's crazy to have a merit based long term exemption like that, as long as it's not into signature events. So I think what you're getting at is that the top tier of PGA Tour events need to be purely based on merit, and I completely agree with that. But a two year exemption for winning the AMX like Nick Dunlap did, that helps keep him away from live so I think what the PGA Tour has done with PGA Tour you, for example, is one of the most important developments of amateur the amateur to professional pipeline in the last twenty five years, and it's been a wonderful development for college golfers and getting more reps. So I don't know that i'd want to yank away that two year exemption on that front, because I think giving Nick Dunlap that two year runway was really important. But for signature events, it needs to be based purely on your performance.

01:02:54
Speaker 5: I have storyline I think segues from that very part.

01:02:58
Speaker 2: We've discussed speJ.

01:03:00
Speaker 1: We did discuss VJ. I think that was probably enough to give VJ unless you have something to happen.

01:03:05
Speaker 2: Nothing else. Nothing I did humorous. I'm excited about it, just somewhat sticking it to the man. I always appreciate.

01:03:15
Speaker 5: Uh So this ties in a little bit with my point of like, hey, nostalgia can't like feel you forever. The one kind of constant in golf is that young superstars emerge like every five years or something. Right, we haven't really had one like emerge like since Scotti. Essentially, who is going to be the next person who kind of elevates themselves into that next tier, Like, is it gonna be Michael Thorbiornsen? Is it gonna be all just pod Eater? Is it gonna be Pierson Cootie? Is it gonna be you know, Jackson Coyven. Is it gonna be one of these guys who lu Clinton?

01:03:51
Speaker 1: Right? So we know, just based on.

01:03:55
Speaker 5: History, that person is going to emerge, right, the person who wins four or five seven majors, you know, that's probably stretching it, but pers the next person who's gonna win four or five majors is out there right now. That person has been born, they have been good at golf for a while. Who it is we cannot say, but we can sort of guess and predict. And I think that that is something that's fascinating. Like, you know, Pikeeter is twenty one years old and he hits the ball an ungodly distance even compared to the today's standard for like guys who hit it really far. Is you know, can he sort of clean up other parts of his game and become like, you know, the next Derney Els, the next great South African player.

01:04:38
Speaker 1: I don't know, like.

01:04:40
Speaker 2: KBB I don't know if you're if you know this, but you're you're sitting next to virtually arguably the biggest pot keeter skeptic on the planet. And Joseph, let's do it. You've you've come. You've actually hit what one of my storylines. Exactly does a young sub twenty five year old star emerge? Is my it was one of my story Alightes hit it exactly. I think pock Eaters interesting. Joseph will come back with why is not interesting? What I think is interesting about pack Eaters. He's won giant tournaments at a very young age and done like ridiculous, ridiculous things at a young age throughout his life, including winning PGA Tour events, and I'm curious, you know, qualifying for the PGA Tour winning I think it was the European and the he won. What was the am of anyone that got him into the open?

01:05:37
Speaker 1: You know?

01:05:37
Speaker 2: He has just consistently won, and that's something that usually is a marker of great young players.

01:05:47
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think a couple of things, Well, this is similar one of my storylines, so I'll throw that in there. But I do think if you ask people, especially who watched a lot of really good college golf. One of the names they're going to tab there is Michael thorpe Jornson that they think he might be kind of the truth, and I think that that's a pretty good prediction. Over the last since last April, he's been really good, and he was a little injured coming out on tour when he debuted, and now he's been healthy and he's been a lot more consistent. So I think there's a chance that that's the name Kevin. One of my storylines was what happens with Jackson Coyven this year and just in general the youth talent in this nil Live golf era, when do they decide to turn pro? Which tour do they decide to go to? And Coyven's going to be a fascinating use case. I think he'll probably turn professional this year. And that's somebody who's arguably one of the best amateurs of the last fifteen years. Some people would say since like Speeth, I think he is better than that little crop that came out with Hoveland and Morikawa and Wolf and Suh. I think Jackson Coyven is better than those guys. So we might have one of them, and then the other guy that's waiting in the wings. A couple of years down the line, will Zalataurus had mentioned him on the Frida Egg Pod. But Miles Russell Man, people think very very highly of that kid. And I know he's still a teenager, but been hearing some crazy stuff, people saying he's the best sixteen year old they've ever seen. Like there is a lot of hype around this kid. So watching what the best sixteen to twenty year olds do in general with this new era of nil and also live golf potentially offering players to come over there and take guaranteed money instead of going to the PGA Tour, whichs a little more cutthroat. I think that's just a massive storyline to keep an eye on. And I'd be super excited about a Jackson Coyven professional debut. That's one of the biggest debuts again probably since the more Kala Hoven crop.

01:07:44
Speaker 2: I mean, you look at what he did last last year. It's just remarkable, the number of top and it. You know, I think the thing that stands out maybe more so to date than than others, like you could look at like Clanton or Thorbiornsen in comparison to Coyven. To me, the thing that stands out about Coyven and this stood out about more Kawa in particular event to event consistency. It is incredible. I think more Kawa, if I recall I had I haven't thought about this in six or seven years, so please don't hold me to this. But Markawa went a couple years at cal without finishing outside the top eight or nine at a college event. And when you start to see that, that to me is the hallmark of who's going to really thrive on the PGA Tour because you know that that shows me that that guys aren't playing bad rounds. And the key the thing about the tour and what every level of golf you go up, the the room for error in terms of a horror round goes down. You know where you you know, in college you can shoot a seventy four recover with a nice finish. The PGA Tour, you shoot a seventy four on Thursday or Friday, you're probably going home. You know the Corn Fairy Tour very much. So like if you start to look at the Corn Fairy Tour, it is like the guys that are at fifty on the Corn Fairy Tour are just guys that haven't figured out how to have that four round consistency. And to me, one of the things that we should be looking more at is that tournament to tournament consistency at the collegiate level. And to be Coyven. That is the thing with Coyven is like you're shocked when he's not there, And I think that's the thing that stands out and maybe you know, I'm I know, like a lot of people are super high on Luke Clanton. I think people should be. I think there's a reality here where, you know, we were talking about what does one emerge, we could come out of this year with two or three that emerge and you're like, Okay, these are guys. Are top twenty players. Someone who hasn't been mentioned here, who's on the verge of being a top twenty player, who's consistently taken a little bit of time to get his feet wet. Chris Gottterup is someone that that hasn't been mentioned here, and you could easily see him leaping up and being a top twelve player in the world by the end of the year.

01:10:24
Speaker 1: You're here.

01:10:25
Speaker 5: It's just always fun to like talk about guys and then you can look back like five years you know, I mean I think we all thought sal Torresen and you know Hoveland, you know, we're going to be like great, great players and that you know, they've been great, but they haven't really put the consistency together to be like, you know, a great player historically yet and that could they still could emerge, but it's like thinking back, like, all right, well, one of these guys that we're mentioning right now is probably going to be like the next great American player or you know that great South African player. Joseph's skepticism aside, you know, I mean, look you were I think you're right to be skeptical of Pogeter a little bit because there's elements of the game that are not there, but there's so much of it now is about well, if you can just whale on the ball and have wedge into seventy percent of your holes, you know, it's it's a pretty big advantage for the way that golf is played now.

01:11:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think just with with Pocketer, you need to see a little more some good golf on some golf courses that don't lend themselves as well to that type of strategy. Right, We're talking about some good performances at Detroit Golf Club and Vedanta Villarta, which you know you can kind of bomb it and then hit a little eighty yard shot out of the rough at Detroit Golf Club. So I'm not like, I don't I don't think he stinks or anything. I'm just saying, of all these young towns that we're talking about, he wouldn't be at the top of my list.

01:11:47
Speaker 2: I think. What's also interesting about this, and this is just something I found myself thinking about after while I was prepping for the Xalatoris interview, was you know, there wasn't in twenty twenty two when xal Torus got injured, there wasn't you know, Scheffler had gotten to the top of the world rankings at that point, but the premise of them being like drastically different class players was not, you know, that far fetched. And you might look at xal Turus's you know, major record and be like, look, this guy's contended in more majors. He's been closer Scott he has one, but you know, xal Torus has done all this other stuff, and it wasn't this like extreme difference, you know, in terms of who each of them was, you know, And I think that's the that's what's so fun about golf, maybe more so than some of these other sports, where like we you know, in basketball, we know Victor of Webbin yama Is is a freak and he's you know, year two and it's going to be or year three of his career and it's gonna be hard to fathom somebody being better than him in five years, right, And golf, like the skill sets, the margin for error is so small and fractional, and you don't know who's going to develop different skills, who's going to have things happen to them in their body or their you know, mentally or in their life that's going to you know, derail what where they once were. And it is one of the things that makes you know, the the sport of golf a such a fun thing to talk about because you know these it you know, it can it can be gone with the snap of a figure, and it can be found, you know, seemingly just as quickly, and it could be someone that you don't expect. That's the thing that's amazing about Scotty is like you know in twenty twenty, if I told you that that the greatest player you know, we've seen since Tiger was in this crop of young players, Scotty wouldn't even would be like a third card selection.

01:14:13
Speaker 3: If we're doing this, if we're doing unexpected players, I can throw my third story line at you, but I don't even know if you've done your second one. Andy, It's just a natural segue.

01:14:20
Speaker 2: You go, and I'll wrap it up because we'll be at all of them.

01:14:24
Speaker 3: Then one of my I think one of the most fascinating golfers right now fits in that bucket, Andy, like no one would have seen him coming. I think it's just really good at golf, and I do like I think I've mentioned this before, but a great nugget I heard on a Darryl Moury Sixers, former Houston Rockets GM like kind of at the forefront of a lot of analytical thinking. But he's he's always said, if somebody doesn't look the part and they're producing results, you need to pay attention to that person, not only because they're getting the same results, but because they've been overlooked. They've probably had people trying to mess with their swings or their shot in the NBA, and they've persisted and still succeeded in spite of that. And I think with Ben Griffin, now we got a zoom out and like, what else does he need to show people that maybe he is a legitimate top ten player in the world. He had two top tens in major championships last year, and he won three times on the PGA Tour. One of them was a Zurich, which wouldn't.

01:15:20
Speaker 2: Count two teams like Andrey won that term there.

01:15:23
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was mostly Novak, but the other two weren't the strongest fields in the world. But he had two top tens in major champions ships last year. Only Scotty and Bryson had more than that. And Ben hasn't even played in the Masters. He only played in three of them, Like he stood toe to toe with Scotty at Memorial. At what point is Ben Griffin do we just start considering him to be a very good player? Because I could see a year from now us being like, well, remember when Ben Griffin was good and now he's the thirtieth best player in the world, or this year he could go out and win a major and we should have seen it coming. So I think it's interesting. I don't know where you guys land on Ben Griffin, but I think he's a fascinating person to pay attention to this year.

01:15:57
Speaker 2: Something that I was gonna say about Ben Griffin that you hit on is the to me, one of the more the bigger points, and yes, we should be buying all the Ben Griffin stock is the Memorial, which he didn't win. But on Saturday it almost became a moment of like he got so far out in front that I could have seen him being like whoa, Like I'm I'm running away with this and it almost like was like you know what happens in golf when you start thinking like, oh, I'm like it becomes like an outer body, like weird, Like I didn't know I could run away with with a PGA Tour event, let alone the memorial. To me, the biggest signaler of that is like, through you know, forty five holes of the memorial, he had just he was just outlandishly better than everybody else, a demanding test of golf, outlandishly better than Scotty who went on to win the event. And it, you know, to me, at this point, you know, if somebody goes to the Memorial Oriole and beat Scotty. That's like kind of like a wow like that, that's just like what it used to be with with Tiger. If somebody goes to the Memorial bay Hill and beats Scotty, that's like a Ora Tory. It's like a whoa, you know, or beats Tiger at one of those places, like wow, that's a that's a surprise. So I think, like Ben Griffin your your spot on uh was saying that, like it is like everybody's always searching for the next person and sometimes also ignore the person right in front of them.

01:17:32
Speaker 1: Love it.

01:17:35
Speaker 4: Where are you and where are you? And you buying Ben Griffin? Are you selling? Ben Griffin?

01:17:40
Speaker 5: Kevin, I need to see a little bit more. I mean, I didn't really love the way you played in the Ryder Cup, but I.

01:17:46
Speaker 1: Feel like.

01:17:49
Speaker 2: Because he played a bax f like conspiracy to play the Ryder Cup upsetting.

01:17:59
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd like see a little more, but I do. Look, when your short game is like that freaking good, like it's it makes you fun to watch, right because you're we're always going to be you know, even on your bad days, like you know, around it, round off, close, definding it, so yeah, I just would like to see a little.

01:18:16
Speaker 2: More uh my last uh last storyline to watch. And I think it's the biggest story in golf is Scottie Scheffler had to do it. The three year run has been insane, absolutely mind boggling run of golf. And I think when I I just am curious how long he wins at a five plus tournament a year clip that was a clip. If you talk about you know, you have Rory and DJ as kind of the last great players of a generation. I think Brooks falls into also, but in a different sphere of like he won majors, he didn't win regular events. You know, DJ, I think won five times once in his career, and you're talking about just a a ridiculous pace that he is on right now and the way he's racking them up, And I'm just curious how long the period is. It could be over this year and he could win three times and still be number one in the world. I wouldn't be surprised. He could win ten times, and at this point, I wouldn't be surprised, but I would be surprised if it goes on for three more years, because it's really hard to do what he's doing at the level he's doing for a really long time. So I'm just I'm fascinated by you know, I think like for me, Scotty has kind of eclipsed the he's boring he does and give you a lot, he's giving you more. And at this point with Scotty, I'm just fascinated by the absurd level of greatness and the absurd standard at which he's set for his play. And I'm just I just am fascinated about how long it's going to happen.

01:20:21
Speaker 5: The next few years feels like kind of a referendum on all right, are we looking at like a top three player of all time or are we looking at like a top ten player of all time? Like he you could probably say like top ten seems very realistic, but like if he wins, like rips off three more majors, you know, like all of a sudden, is ten in play?

01:20:43
Speaker 1: Like I think, yeah, I think so. My last point any that I sort of the VJ one was kind of just thrown in there.

01:20:49
Speaker 5: But this next year feels like a little bit of a referendum on like, all right, can Rory answer serve it all in? Like this can become like a little bit of a rivalry, right if you think about like in nineteen seventy seven, Tom Watson had already sort of surpassed Jack Nicholas as like the best player in the world, like Turnberry was a great sort of you know, like, hey, Watson won two majors that year. Jack didn't win any, but Jack still won three more majors after that, you know, two in nineteen eighty and then nineteen eighty six, And I kind of wonder if for Rory, like you could sort of almost look at like this is like a tennis match where Rory won, like and the in terms of like the great player who's in their thirties, esque, Rory won the first set, and then Scotty won the next two. Like Scotty's a better player than Rory is clearly right now, But Rory still could win the last set, He could rip off three more majors, he could win the Masters again this year, and then all of a sudden, Rory has six majors to Scotty's three. It becomes like a little more interesting. It was like, wait a minute, like, could Rory have like one more great run in him where he actually challenges Scotty or is he just going to sort of, you know, kind of fade back a little bit and seed that spot to Scotty for good. And I think it'd be fun to see how both of them react. Rory's been a great US Open player in the last five six years. Scotty needs a US Open to complete the Slam, so Rory could be a person who stands in the way of that. Like, you know, they're both gonna go into Birkdale as like kind of some of the favorites there. All of that and how that plays out this year is really interesting, And I think Joseph, I think that the opposite could be true of like, yes, Rory had his clear let down after the Masters, and but he also kind of got recalibrated at the end of the year, winning the Irish Open, playing really well in.

01:22:29
Speaker 1: The Ryder Cup.

01:22:30
Speaker 5: What if like that continues and he is sort of freed up a little bit at Augusta and he plays really well at the Masters, and it's like, oh, what if Rory wins the Masters two Masters in a row all of a sudden, It's like, wait a minute, is Scotty the best player in the world? And did someone kind of answer the call here and get motivated to suddenly find something late in their career. I think that could be a really fun story. Like, while conceding almost certainly Scotty is gonna be the best player, I just think it's fun to think about what if Rory's like no way to minute, I still have an answer to this.

01:23:02
Speaker 1: Scotty is four for making excusing right, Yeah, But I.

01:23:07
Speaker 3: Think my biggest question was Scotty that I would love insight on from people who spent a lot of time around him in his junior golf days and college days.

01:23:15
Speaker 4: Is what kind of putter was he always? Like? Like, what kind of putter?

01:23:18
Speaker 2: Was a great putter?

01:23:21
Speaker 3: That stood out to me when he said that on the pod because he was such a bad putter for stretches of his PGA Tour career. But if you zoom out and that's a small blip on a large body of work that he was always pretty good as a kid in decent enough in Texas, then I don't think this big putting improvement from last year is necessarily we should expect it to regress back too close to zero, Like, maybe Scotty is a decent putter moving forward in which case, I don't know how anybody touches him. And I'm not trying to be hard on Rory, like right after he wins and has this amazing year, he's due for a letdown. But I do think the gap between Scotty and Rory, even last year when Rory got back to form after the Masters win, after that little l it's still a big gap. And Scotty reminds us of that from time to time, like at Port Rush. We can't forget, like just how much he dusted people at Port Rush and how much he's dusted people at Augusta and Quail Hollow on that Saturday round last year was just absolutely exceptional. So as much as golf, you don't want to think that something's gonna last forever, because it never does. I feel as good about Scotty being stable and reeling off more majors as as at least I can ever remember feeling about somebody. I don't know that I remember exactly what it felt like when Rory was winning in twenty fourteen, but and that felt like it was gonna last forever. But the way Scotty's doing it is just so stable and unless the putter goes. I have to imagine he wins another major this.

01:24:49
Speaker 2: Year, so he's got some year. You know. The Putter is the obvious one where you say he starts putting bat like because we've seen that. The other one that I think is that can creep up on players and like this can just happen in your game, and it's easy to have happen. It's not Iron Play. It's not gonna be a short game. The Driver, where if the driver, once the driver starts to go a couple places you don't want it to go, there becomes like a inherent there's a mental you know, there's a reason there's something called the driver yips. And I'm not saying like full blown driver yips, but like there's degrees of that, and the only like that's you know, the short Game and the Iron Player are so freaking good, like so good it's hard to imagine like a world. But all of a sudden you stop winning majors if the driver is mediocre, Like that's how this whole thing gets like a little bit derailed of like he's so head and shoulders above somebody above everyone to like the only way I see him outside of the Putter which I don't. I actually don't think the putter is going to regress. I think that he maybe there's like some small I think he's going to be a good putter, but like where I see Actually the most susceptibility is if he starts to drive it a little crooked. And that's the part of the game because it kind of like builds pressure. It's the way you start holes. It becomes like golf is like you know, we talk about how golf is a non, non reactionary sport and the challenge of that. I think the most challenging shot on a golf hole mentally is the tea shot in a way because you're, you know, the approach shot around the greens are are much more instinctual where you're feeling like where you there's a lot of pressure to get off the tea because it's really hard to be a happy golfer if you're not getting off the tee to what you believe your standard is.

01:26:59
Speaker 3: In another way, he railed his injury right, and he did deal with a little back and neck injury in college. I think that is also like it's all over if that happens. I'm not saying it's likely, but it has to be called that.

01:27:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think, Yeah, Scotty, like if you were gonna, if you were going to predict, like what is your expectation for wins for him this year?

01:27:20
Speaker 1: For four and a half, I would set the number up.

01:27:24
Speaker 2: I think i'd go like six and a half almost at this six and a half. What I've seen six and a half and one major. You know, like in that six and a half is one major. Ma, he's five and a half with a major.

01:27:39
Speaker 5: I'd take the under for six and a half. But you're right, I wouldn't. It wouldn't be shocked if he won seven times. It'd be like, yeah, this makes sense.

01:27:48
Speaker 2: I mean you think about last year he won what seven times, and you know, for the first four months of the years he wasn't right physically because of the hand.

01:28:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it just depends on what tournaments we're talking about.

01:28:04
Speaker 3: Like I think it's he needs one major, one and a half's reasonable, and then I think it's two to three other big wins if are recounting, like if he goes out and wins at Craig Ranch and even Scottsdale, like those are so different now than we.

01:28:16
Speaker 2: Get your invite to Craig Ranch. She got invited. Oh no, I'll get that over.

01:28:22
Speaker 1: I think I got one.

01:28:25
Speaker 4: You can just go in RSVP. Yes to that one.

01:28:30
Speaker 3: I'll say Scotty's. If we're just gonna say all tournaments total, i'll say four.

01:28:33
Speaker 4: And a half wins.

01:28:36
Speaker 2: All right, that doesn't Those are our storylines to watch. This was fun, This was fun. Catch it up. We'll do this more throughout the year. Joseph KVV. Thank you. As a reminder, everybody should be checking out your guys is writing in the h in the newsletter. It's been really fun to see you know, Joseph. When Joseph came on a couple of years ago, it took our newsletter to a new level. And with both of you in there now, you know, it's something that I feel like I you know, I can't wait to open up and read every morning that I do not contribute and know what's in there. So so thank you guys for you.

01:29:15
Speaker 1: We'll keep it a warm for you whenever you're ready to fire.

01:29:18
Speaker 2: It up occasionally think about it. Hell yeah, all right, guys, talk soon. All right. Thank you for listening to another edition of the Friday Golf Podcast. PJ. Big thanks to PJ for editing and producing this and we will be back next week.