Robyn Stern and Body Dysmorphic Disorder

00:00:06
Speaker 1: Hello, gorgeous. I want to do it kind of like Heather McDonald's Hello and Welcome to give them a la podcast That was really good?

00:00:15
Speaker 2: Was it?

00:00:15
Speaker 1: Because I listened to her podcast on the way home from Newport and I was just rowling. I was rolling, not rolling like that like the cool kids, the cool kids rolling laughing.

00:00:29
Speaker 3: I don't think a lot of people know how good you are at impressions. It's like a I would call it a hidden talent.

00:00:35
Speaker 1: Wait really, no, no, no.

00:00:37
Speaker 3: You're amazing at impressions of like your friends, of like.

00:00:41
Speaker 1: My mom goes sucker in her mouth.

00:00:44
Speaker 3: Yes, girl, we have Lisa in the office today. Love, love the energy.

00:00:50
Speaker 1: You're the right side of my body, Jess, and my mom is.

00:00:52
Speaker 3: The l last and oh is the heart.

00:00:55
Speaker 1: Oh is the whole beat the heart. Sweeten out of my face. Baby, she's so stink and cute. Can I tell you? Yeah? I just so. We've done this a few times now, but she's getting to that age where she like really is enjoying girl time. Likes she knows that it's girl time. She does, so I'll put her in the bed, okay, and we'll start a movie and we'll make like a treat and she'll sit in the middle and watch the movie and she's digging into all the treats and eating and watching and laughing. She is, yes, and it's the cutest thing you'll ever see.

00:01:31
Speaker 3: It's you, your mom and oh it's the three of you.

00:01:34
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like it's girl time. Everyone in the bed. Let's make a snack and you can tell little girl.

00:01:44
Speaker 3: Now do you watch kid shows or does she not really care about the movie. She just cares that she's sitting there, so you maybe watch more of an adult mover or.

00:01:52
Speaker 1: No, we watched Monsters Inc. Yeah, okay, Monsters University Fun. She's in to Monsters Inc. Right now. Oh that's cute. Yeah, loves it. I've shown her like older movies like Lion King and stuff, and she there's just something about the Monsters Inc. That she is like honed in on. Would you know I love animated movies?

00:02:15
Speaker 2: Yeah?

00:02:15
Speaker 3: Do you know Disney disney Land has a Monster's Ink Ride. I don't know if it'd be too scary for her, but it's like you basically just like sit in a cart and you go through the Monster's Inc. World.

00:02:25
Speaker 1: No, I think she'd love it, you do? Yeah? I want to take her to Disneyland. Yeah, I have to do that. We got to put that on the schedule. Mom. Yeah, so there was that. This weekend was Labor Day weekend. Sunday, I went out on a boat with my friends. It was absolutely spectacular.

00:02:41
Speaker 3: It looked amazing.

00:02:42
Speaker 1: They played fifty cent in the club like all day for me, and I was like torking my flat ass all over that yacht.

00:02:48
Speaker 3: That I saw it on your stories. You had like a did you have like a light.

00:02:52
Speaker 1: Green, like a lime lime green?

00:02:54
Speaker 3: Yes, looked so fun.

00:02:56
Speaker 1: Everyone else wasn't black. I was like, you should have told me, because now I look so out of place in these photos. No, you did it.

00:03:01
Speaker 3: You loved who was on? Was it just like a bunch of friends? Was it? Did you know everyone?

00:03:05
Speaker 1: It was Sheena's Sheena's group okay that she so kindly introduced me to when we all just really hit it off. We actually hit it off when we went on the boat in Mexico for Sheena's like bachelorette day.

00:03:19
Speaker 3: Got it okay?

00:03:20
Speaker 1: You know? And I you know I have I have social anxiety. I don't think many people would know that just because of the way I come across but when you tell me we're going somewhere with a group of people that I don't know, and it's like I start getting triggered, Like safe place, Nope, nope, hotel room sounds safe? Yeah, rooms sound safe.

00:03:37
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:03:37
Speaker 1: Not that these people have ever done anything to me. It's just I get nervous and I don't have alcohol or anything else to kind of like calm the thoughts in my head, which is great. I don't want that. But these women were amazing. They're all moms, and we just hit it off. And they said come out for Labor Day and I said I will.

00:03:53
Speaker 3: Be there, so fun.

00:03:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then the next so we went out on the boat on Sunday. My mom brought Ocean down that night, and Monday we went to their fabulous home. It's like absolutely stunning. All of Ocean's little friends were there.

00:04:09
Speaker 3: So swimmy. I saw, do the babies get along? I think I've asked you this before, but I just asked as like a babysitter who used to like babysit babies, and I would always have to be watching the ones I babysat because they were constantly going after kids.

00:04:23
Speaker 1: You know what. They're really sweet with each other, and they do know each other. Okay, second Ocean sees summer Moon or Hartford or Cruisy, and there were other little kids there, and Ocean is just so sweet and she knows like, you're a baby, I'm a baby. Let's be friends. Let's get in the kidti pool together, have a heyday. So it's just beyond que.

00:04:45
Speaker 3: That house where we were was beautiful.

00:04:47
Speaker 1: It's beyond stunning.

00:04:48
Speaker 3: I mean the view of the ocean, and Ocean.

00:04:52
Speaker 1: Was obsessed with looking at the ocean. She kept taking making me take her to the edge of the pool to look out at it, and she'd point and then look at me and go cute little smile Stacy. We were with her last week and she goes la la. She literally doesn't have a thought without smiling. And so I was watching, oh, and she would stop have a thought laugh. I was like, oh my gosh, she does.

00:05:15
Speaker 3: She's the happiest, sweetest baby.

00:05:16
Speaker 1: She's so stinking cute and easy. And I'm biased because she's mine, but I'm like, your perfection, yeah, like this is what perfection is.

00:05:23
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:05:24
Speaker 1: So they had a blast. You know. I love when I can get Ocean together with her little friends. I think it's important for her, and like, how lucky am I that she has like a little built in friend group. And then all of the moms are friends too. Yeah, it's adorable.

00:05:38
Speaker 3: It's her friends for life, just like Olivia said.

00:05:42
Speaker 1: And Olivia, yes, because our moms are friends. Now, then we're friends, and now we have babies together that are five months apart, they're friends.

00:05:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, Candace and Chris, it's so cute.

00:05:52
Speaker 1: I love the whole vibe.

00:05:54
Speaker 3: You're kind of living the dream.

00:05:56
Speaker 1: So you know that I go savage when ocean goes down for a nap on ig. And when I say savage, I don't mean like I start trolling, but I start looking up content and I go to one page to the next page. I'm like, how the hell did I end up on this person's page from Wisconsin? And now she's living in Dubai and looking at her man who's super rich, and now I'm on his mom's page.

00:06:17
Speaker 3: It's like the best we all do.

00:06:19
Speaker 1: I'd go right into the as. But anyway, I was looking at this page and this woman had posted something and in the background or the song that was playing was Seven Rings by Ariana Grande. Okay, and the part where she says, whoever said money can't solve your problems must not have had enough money to solve them, And I was like, that is so true. Yeah, I don't know why it made me go into this, like, you know what, money can so solve your problems. I've lived in Hollywood way too long. I see these rich, powerful people solving problems and silencing people with their money for a long fucking time.

00:07:01
Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:07:02
Speaker 1: All right, So what they mean to say, Jess is money cannot buy you happiness, cannot buy you security in the sense if you're an insecure person, it can't quiet that down. But problems. I've seen people pay off their problems in a hot second. Right, Yeah, So I went into that whole thing literally as I'm listening to it watching it, and I was like, wait, I've seen this short circuits plug in. I never you know, it's like so true. Yeah, are Grande speaking mad? Truth in seven rings?

00:07:40
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, that's the world we live in, unfortunately most of the time. Unfortunately sometimes fortunately, because there are a lot of problems in the world that can be solved by money, like through charities and stuff like that. But on the other hand, there's a lot of problems. I mean the world we live in. If you are rich enough, you can kind of do anything. Or yeah, shut anyone up.

00:08:01
Speaker 1: And it's Tom's Girardi and his mistress. He had three hundred thousand dollars. She's a freaking judge in the court. Sy, Yes, and you want me to feel comfortable being in the court system when I'm watching stuff like this happen a rich guy coming in. Yeah, or you got on the flip side that I've experienced many times. Hey, girl, be quiet, I'll get you a chanel bag. That bitch silence is herself real quick. Yeah all right, So Ariana Grande was onto something. But speaking true, it cannot buy you happiness.

00:08:35
Speaker 3: True, it can't buy you happiness, but I always do say money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy quote unquote buy you time. And for me, I like to spend time with my loved ones, so indirectly money could buy me happiness, but it can't directly buy me happiness.

00:08:50
Speaker 1: All right, Well, I want to hear what you guys think, So go my my podcast page and the number is on there. Call in and leave me a message, because you know I just bumped up on this I just spew what I think. But it's just what I think.

00:09:03
Speaker 3: Lala Cronde.

00:09:05
Speaker 1: They give them La La podcast The next Savage Thing. Sephany Frankle okay posting about the Kardashians.

00:09:14
Speaker 3: On TikTok or did you see it on TikTok?

00:09:16
Speaker 1: I saw it, no, because you remember I see everything late, oh late, because I only look at Instagram. People send me things on TikTok and I'm like, my assistant runs my TikTok. I can't even get into it. I would don't know the password, I don't know what it's saying. Screen record it, send it to me. You can't.

00:09:32
Speaker 3: You can't say that now because she hasn't posted in a little bit.

00:09:34
Speaker 1: But we'll get it back up.

00:09:35
Speaker 3: But anyway, a lot of work, it's a lot Well, when when the season ten of vander Pump starts, we've got great content like that then will be posted.

00:09:43
Speaker 1: So basically once a year you'll get good content from TikTok. But no, I'm seeing people I won't mention names at the pool party yesterday who have already put reels up, and I'm like, who has the time. I know, who has the patience and the energy, like you literally capture every single moment. Did you even enjoy yourself? Yeah?

00:10:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, Lisa says it's kind of a talent too, and I.

00:10:08
Speaker 1: Agree, definitely a talent.

00:10:09
Speaker 3: But we just talked about this. Remember, it's like it made me sad when I was like out with girlfriends and then a couple of them were spending literally the whole night shooting content, and then when we were at dinner, they were editing the content, and then I just never talked to them the whole night. It was sad. But it is also a talent. And if it's your full time job, then like or your job at all, you're making an income, do you.

00:10:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, By the way, I may not understand it, yeah, but like I can respect it. Yeah. I wish I was doing that because my one point seven would be at one point eight if I gave a damn. You know, I posted like three times in like two weeks, and I was like, I'm killing it. I know, killing it, mom. I know whose phone is on?

00:10:51
Speaker 2: Is that you?

00:10:52
Speaker 1: If you're a rookie, turn it off. You can turn the sound off.

00:11:00
Speaker 3: Because I'm charging it.

00:11:01
Speaker 1: This is what happens. And then she'll put it in the kitchen at night, Yeah, and not turn it off. I'll be like Lisa, turn off the phone and it's a barking noise.

00:11:14
Speaker 3: I know it's a barking ring tone.

00:11:15
Speaker 1: It's ring tone, not even a text. So it continues to bark until the person hangs up.

00:11:21
Speaker 3: By the way, Lise, I love your hair today. She has her hair and like that the clip you wear it like this too, Lala, I need to start. It's a very like Y two K hairstyle that's back. But it's like the big clock clips. They're so cute. But wait, let's go back to Bethany Frank.

00:11:37
Speaker 1: Bethany Frankel gets on whether it was TikTok. I saw it on her Instagram. She's talking about the Kardashians, and she's like, what are we teaching people? Take it all, don't stop until it's all yours. If there's a scandal, do charity to cover up the plastic surgery? Are we teaching like, have plastic surgery until you feel confident. She just was on a rampage and you know how she goes like, I love Bethany Frankel so much, like there's not many people I look up to in this world. I look up to her, maybe because it's I watched her since the beginning, and just like where she came from, what she built, she kept her eye on the prize the entire time. She went through a horrific relationship and then to top it all off, this is a crisis her be strong. It was just like the whole package for me is like that. I want that. Yeah, Like I will listen to Bethany Frankel. Right, we've talked about this before. If people are giving you advice and they don't have what you want, But however, if they're giving you advice based on experiences that they've had, listen to them as well. Because I remember talking to James and he said to me, why would I listen to you? Like, look at where you are, And I'm like, that's why you should listen to me. Right, I'm telling you what not to do what I've learned from. Correct, listen to me. And by the way, look at the ship I've been through and where I am right now. Listen to me. My word is worth gold. You can take that ship to the bank, all right, they'll put it in a vault for you. It's worth something. Yeah, So listen to me. Yeah, because I don't want to waste my precious gold on you if you're not gonna listen.

00:13:20
Speaker 3: You know, it's a shame that we don't have video because that's when Lala goes out in her rants and the hands start going.

00:13:27
Speaker 1: That's like, just watch vander Pump and there we see what the two fingers go up. Yeah, you shut your filthy fucking mouth as kiddy. Yeah, we literally hear that. It's the whole thing today that I love her. She takes all this sense in the world to me, and I think she's hysterical. And she always starts every video when she goes on a tangent where it's like, cancel me. I don't care. This is what it is, this is how I feel, and it's like I don't don't think she ever gets canceled because she's like I don't care. Yeah, and she's like worth a lot of fucking money. Yeah, you know that's why.

00:14:07
Speaker 3: And she's so honest and she'll I just love it her product reviews. I mean I love it for everything. I followed her a while ago, but she does the most honest product reviews and she'll say is this worth your money?

00:14:20
Speaker 1: Is this not?

00:14:20
Speaker 3: And there are some products that.

00:14:22
Speaker 1: Have been shadow band though for a lot of her reviews. Yeah, yeah, she talked about it. She's like, I know, Chris Jenner runs the media. I got it. I we're sick of it. I'm being water Kardashian waterboarded. We all are. I know. Even the media is like, are you fucking kidding me? I gotta cover this again, I gotta cover this family again. Yeah. But it's like, I want to be a Kardashian, Lisa. Start running the fucking media, all right, Helle, trying to hit one point eight? All right, come on, really, I don't care that much. All I want to do is be in the bed and watch Jersey Shore. I know. And Lisa had never seen Game of Thrones before, so you're rewatching it with rewatching it, and everyone's like, you don't need to watch that to watch house. Is it House of the Dragon or House of Dragons? I don't know, it's House of the Dragon. I think, okay, well the new one. And I'm like, but you kind of do because I think it's about the Targarian it is, and you want to be invested, Like, why do I care about these Targarians if I've never seen Game of Thrones. Yeah, she's fully.

00:15:22
Speaker 3: Invested, and you are, wait, have you gotten to the little Kid? I don't even know what season this was, the little boy who's like the tyrant king. Yeah you have.

00:15:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're waiting for him to die. Okay, Jeffrey Geoffrey, Non.

00:15:37
Speaker 3: Was it Jeoffrey? There's another one? Okay, Okay, I'm not gonna say there's another one.

00:15:42
Speaker 1: And he's like trigger playing with your nails. She's she's gonna tell me the story.

00:15:46
Speaker 3: Wine, there's another one. And all I'm gonna say is for the listeners who are like, who's she talking about? Hole in the ground, That's all I'm gonna say.

00:15:53
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't think we're there. Yeah, okay, I don't know. See, I've seen it, but I've kind of forgotten, like I remember, yeah, like the Red Wedding. Yes, don't tell her that's my next episode.

00:16:04
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Yeah, I'm actually that's great that you get to experience this with her. That's awesome.

00:16:09
Speaker 1: I know. Stacy was like, I'm so jealous that you've never experienced it and you're getting to right now. Because Stassy's obsessed. Mom, Yeah, no, obsessed. People call her Kalisi because she's so obsessed.

00:16:21
Speaker 3: Oh, Kalisi the Dragon Queen, Queen of Dragons, the Mother of Dragons, Mother of Dragons, something like that.

00:16:30
Speaker 1: The best show ever. I am really excited as well as feeling very very honored because I was asked if it was okay, which I was like, beyond okay to be honored at the Brent Shapiro Foundation event this year, which for those of you who are not familiar, it is Robert Shapiro's and Robert and Linnelle Shapiro's foundation that they started. I want to say they said maybe fifteen years ago, maybe longer. Okay, they lost their son, drugs and alcohol were involved, and so they started this foundation where there's an incentive for people to stay sober, okay, not pick up, not drink, not use, and they give away scholarships. Wow, it's incredible. I have chills just talking about it. And they are honoring me this year on Saturday for my sobriety.

00:17:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is so exciting. It's gonna be so beautiful.

00:17:40
Speaker 1: Thank you.

00:17:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's got tears in her eyes. Now, how are you gonna be when you're giving a speech.

00:17:47
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a sobbing mice I really hope that I can keep it together because you know, these kids that have stayed sober, they're getting money to go to college and have a bright, right future, and I don't think people realize, well, maybe they do. I'm extremely passionate about my sobriety. It's the proudest thing I've ever done in my whole life. I can be around drinking. I can't say that a lot of people that are sober, you know, that can be triggering for them. My own personal experience, which I'm grateful for, because it's not lost on me that sobriety can be taken from you like that just by you picking up. You could be sober thirty years and it's gone in thirty seconds and you're a newcomer again. So I'm extremely I will hit four years but again one day at a time on October twenty second, and it's just beyond you know. I can be around it. I don't feel triggered, and I thank God every day because it is one day at a time. But it's just it's amazing, and it's not an easy path, especially with the environment that I'm in, you know, filming a reality TV show. I constantly battle staying true to my program and also going into a reality TV space where your opinions and your thoughts are heard. They matter, But you also want to be soft and delicate. So I'm just because you're in the program does not mean that you turn into Jesus or you know, the person who's turning the other cheek and doing all of those things. We're still human. There's still a lot of amends that I have to make on a daily basis, and I'm okay with that. I am very, very honored to be honored this year at the Brent Shapiro Foundation event on Saturday. Yay. Yeah, So those of you who have not heard of this, please look it up. It's going to be spectacular. It is, Yeah, it is, And I have to give a speech. It's gonna be great, and it's gonna be thank you Mom, and it's gonna be after the kids who you know, get their scholarships. I'm gonna be a hot mess.

00:19:57
Speaker 3: But you know what is so amazing is that they everyone who works with the branch a Her Foundation is incredible and it's a very small group of people that makes huge stuff happen. But they had offered like, hey, we'll send you Lalla an outline, and Lalla I was like, yeah, let's do that. And Lala was like, you know, I'm just gonna go up there and speak from my heart. And I was like, I was very taken aback by that, because someone like me would be like, give me bullet points. I'm reading from a prompter. But you're just gonna hop up there and speak from your heart. And I think it's going to be so much more impactful and special. I'm very excited for that.

00:20:32
Speaker 1: I'm excited too. I am a little nervous though you're gonna do, right, I'm very nervous. There's this person also that I found on the gram who is fine as it gets. His name is Darren Waller. By the way, if he has a girlfriend, can you guys just let me know she's totally fine disengage. But I'm telling you sober, fine tattoos. Yeah my type of dude. I just like it all all right from what the gram portrays. Yeah. Yeah, But I'm like, how does one get in touch with this human?

00:21:01
Speaker 3: This is a good Maybe someone will DM you and be like hey, I I work with Darren, or I wrap him or whatever. He's not very active on the ground because I think you mentioned him once. I tried to cyber stop him and I was like, huh, he's not very active on that, or or maybe his people are.

00:21:17
Speaker 1: I don't know who knows. If he has a girlfriend, he better treat her right. I respect it and good for him, good for her too. If not, like where yet, where yet? Slid in the DM. I'm very active in the DM. You know, come one, come all, No one's safe. No one's safe once you pass that PI check. Come one, come all into my house. What do you want? I don't care. Lay it down, baby. No. He went from honoring me at sobriety. So DM, we have a good guest today. She slid in my DM. I saw it. She wanted to shed light on body dysmorphia BDD is what it's called body dysmorphic disorder, and I wanted her to shed light Like what she said in her DM, I was like, I gotta have you on the podcast. Her name is Robin Stern. We are having her on the podcast to talk about BDD, which is body dysmorphic disorder. I did have people slide in the DM on the podcast page and say that I need to start doing trigger warnings. I apologize if you've ever listened to one of my podcasts and been triggered by it. That was never my intention. So going forward, if I have anything that I feel is we're deep diving into some deep stuff, I will let you know. So here it is. This is your trigger warning, my loves, and I hope this helps, right, I love you guys. We have Robin Stern up next. First, for our listeners, I kind of want them to know what it is that you do, Like you slid in my DM and said you wanted to talk about some things that Obviously it resonated with me because here we are, so just kind of break it down for my listeners.

00:23:11
Speaker 2: Okay, So I am a therapist. I specialize in body justs morphic disorder and I do work in New York, California or Florida, New Jersey. And I myself have body dismorphic disorder and I've struggled with it probably since my lateeens. I'm forty two, we'll got to be forty two. And so body dysmorphic disorder is a distortion and how one sees themselves and they focus on perceived defects in their appearance that no one else sees, and it affects them, cut to the core of who they are, and it makes them hard for them to live life and to engage in friendships, and they tend to, you know, want to get plastic surgery or cosmetic procedures, but ultimately it leads them to feeling very depressed, could leave them to using substance abuse. And so yeah, and so this is just such an important platform. And I think resonated with me with your particular platform as your honesty, and I think that as celebrity being honest about whatever it is you do. I think people that are vulnerable to that really appreciate that, because there's a lot of people that you know, are posting and they're acting like I look like this out of nowhere, and it's it's very detrimental to people that are struggling because they're looking at these pictures and they're like, why don't I look this way?

00:24:24
Speaker 3: Right?

00:24:24
Speaker 2: And so I think, you know, I don't tell people like you shouldn't filter, you shouldn't do those things. I think it's great, but I love like I think you posted the other day like like you love the filter, and I'm like, yes, thank you for being honest, like thank you for being real, because clients that come see me are devastated when they're looking at pictures and they're like, why don't I look this way? Like why can I look this way? And it's like they don't look this way.

00:24:51
Speaker 1: Right well, and I feel like it doesn't even you. You look at these women who you know, because I've even been there where I'm scrolling the gram and I'm like, oh my gosh, this person is so stunning and it looks very natural, and Lord knows that they were in all the apps that I'm going into as well. But I feel like even those people that have the stunning photos are looking at other people's instagrams thinking the exact same thing.

00:25:14
Speaker 3: It's so funny. We were just talking about this, just the harm that it does when people aren't honest. Do you think it affects young people when they're just starting to get on socials a little more than more mature people, or it kind of affects everyone differently.

00:25:32
Speaker 2: I definitely think the young people are more aware that I do think there's a sense of when you're younger, your appearance does impact how you see yourself in relation to other people, but I think it affects all people across the board, and I think it's just again, I'm all about like looking good and if you want to use those filters in grit, but I think the honesty has to be there, and I think there's so little honesty with that and it's so detrimental. I mean, what's scary about this disorder is that one in four people attempt suicide and eighty percent of people have suicidal ideation. And that's severe. Like we're talking and this is a diagnosis that most people don't talk about, Like I didn't talk about it, like I didn't know about it. I literally walked through like my college life like I'm just ugly, I'm just gross, like I don't deserve to be alive. And this is how it felt. And this is before social media, right, so this is just like I so honestly, I can't even imagine what kids now who have access to all of this, what they feel like it's just a lot of pressure. Ironically, living in LA didn't feel pressure. I can't explain that. I don't know if it's because and I lived like in West Hollywood. I don't know if it's just a little bit different living there versus what people put on social media. But yeah, I do think it affects kids, and I think it affects them wanting to get work done earlier, and this notion of like I need to look perfect or look fake to be happy and okay.

00:27:00
Speaker 3: Member a time when you were younger that you maybe felt okay and there was a specific time where you're like, wait a second, I'm somebody made fun of you or anything. Do you remember that moment?

00:27:10
Speaker 1: What was that moment?

00:27:11
Speaker 2: So for me, it's funny. I got the diagnosis when I was twenty two, but I was bullied since the age of nine. I have curly hair, I'm Jewish, and when I was younger, people made front of my hair every single day. And what was crazy was that it was a group of eight girls that were my best friends. So it's like one thing to be bullied, but it's like another thing. It's like when your girls are bullying you, and it was like it was just at that point. I think it's just I always talk as a therapist like your formative years, right, so being like a twelve year old and you're trying to figure out who you are in relation to other people. And your friends are like, you're not good enough, Like my friends went and they would make fun of me. Every day at lunch, I would go to the nurse's office, like they didn't even pick it up. At school, I was getting like twenties on tests, like they didn't figure it out. And then like they would go to ice skating lessons and they wouldn't include me, And it really took a toll. And at that point I didn't know until years later, like I did feel different. I was like, they don't want to hang out with me because of my hair, so then there's something wrong with me. And ironically that wasn't the issue that became the focus of my BBB. But I do believe that that was an experience where all of a sudden, I went from feeling like this happy little girl to this girl that like shouldn't even be here. And I grew up in a family that like loved me, and there was definitely a lot of focus on appearance, but it was like I was accepted and then all of a sudden, like just rejected and not rejected on rejected based upon how it looked, you know, growing up on Long Islands. I don't know if you know anything about that in New York, it's like it's next. It's like almost as bad as well. It's like NXT.

00:28:49
Speaker 1: I really like it's very much about the outer appearance.

00:28:54
Speaker 2: It's like keeping up with the Joneses. It's like ridiculous. It is a Now you know, I'm a single mom, I'm having two and a half year old boy, and I'm like, I need to get out of here, Like I do not want to raise my kid in this obviously, I'll be honest, I have a little PTSD. I'm in my hometown, so like being back here is like very surreal for me. I lives in LA for eleven years, and so the idea of him going to the schools that I went to. I definitely work through it in therapy, but it's still very like it's triggering.

00:29:24
Speaker 1: Yes, anything that that when people say that they're triggered, it means that you're taking them back to a place that they've been before that was not a happy experience or moment, and those moments are hard to work through. I mean, even me at the age of thirty two, there are still things that you know, I remember from a child that people would make fun of, where it's like I even though yes I'm older now and I've learned to love every part of me, there are things that happen sometimes where I'm like, this is taking me back to a place that is way too familiar and not enjoyable.

00:29:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, so it's it's hard. I mean, and and you asked that question. And honestly, they never asked that question when I was diagnosed, and so that was never important for them to I always say, like hear my story. It was never important for them to know my story. They just were like you have buy it's warm for a disorder. They didn't necessarily tie it back to like what possibly could have caused it. There is genetic components to it, but definitely being bullied like that and because of my appearance, and it was in multiple areas, like it was in Sleepway Camp. It was like five boys at first, and then it was again when you're close friends do that too. It's I can't. I still struggle with it today. I'll be honest, I have a very hard time keeping female friendships. And I know what like I you know, they were my friends, they were my best friends. And what's messed up is like I hung out with them after I confronted them, Like, so I stayed close with like my bullies.

00:30:54
Speaker 1: Right, they were your safe place and they were like ultimately like your your mental abuse users. And that happens a lot where people are, you know, whatever type of abuse they're experiencing, they become comfortable in that situation and that's why you stick around.

00:31:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I will say I wish my therapist would have worked on that because it ended up trickling into my adult life with every man that I dated that ended up being toxic like no other. So I also related to you there been there, done that with the narcissist, and it's a lot of that was because I didn't feel worth it. And I'm still struggling with that, you know, like what I lost not only to disorder, but like how even in my recovery, like what the typical treatment is, which is like not engaging in mirror checking and not engaging and like getting cosmetic procedures, but they didn't like help me like figure out like it's okay to be me and like to love myself. And so what ended up happening was I ended up not like not being able to truly love myself and then I ended up attracting like the worst of the worst.

00:32:03
Speaker 1: Right, it trickles into every aspect of your life. So then how how does someone know if they have BDD? Because like, Lord knows, I love me some injections, love the boattos, give me a little lip, But like I feel like I dig myself. You know, I've grown out of a lot of my insecurities where I'm like, you know what, it works, and I'm going to be grateful for it, but I do like my ear. I could not get past the ear. I've been subconscious about it since I was a child, and I knew that there was something I could do about it, so I went and fixed it. But at what point do you say, Okay, I have body dysmorphic disorder, or like I just want a little thing to amp up what I already got, Like where's where's the line.

00:32:46
Speaker 3: That is such a I was thinking that too, because it's like I feel like most of my friends growing up, including myself, we all picked apart ourselves constantly. But at this point in time, I definitely don't think I have BDD, and I'm sure people who might say, oh I have, It's like the OCD you know, and the people who go, oh, I'm the OCD went to one, you're not.

00:33:09
Speaker 2: It makes me nuts as somebody who has had like four medical leaves. I had to miss my first semester of my senior of college, like I couldn't leave my house. So like that drives me nuts. But I think what to say is so example, someone let's say, who likes to get those that stuff done like photops or Fellers, that's great, but person with B to D feels like if I need to get it done for me to be okay in this world or otherwise like I can't function, I am not okay, like no one's gonna love me. I am Like the core belief is like I am defective, I am disgusting, I am worthless, and only if I get those things done then I'm going to be okay. And I think that's where like, yes, I think they use this word like body dysmorphia and it's really not the real word, but it's the same thing as saying like you're a little OCD. It's more related to body image issues, right, But when you're looking at the true disorder, you're looking how does it disrupt functioning? So that's where the difference is. You may not love what you look like, but it's like okay, for instance, like you know, you may not have loved your ear, but was it like stopping you from like making friends or going out or living your life? And now there's a continuum, you know with people with BDD, there's some people that literally are housebound they can't leave, and then there's people that can function that like are thinking about it twenty four seven. But the ultimate thing is most of them kind of will resonate with this notion of like when I get these procedures done, like I'm going to be okay. Like I had a former client, like his notion this is before he saw me. He went and got a nose job, and in his mind he's like, I'm going to be famous after like my life's going to be so different. I'm going to be this other person. And I'm like, okay, if that's what you think you're going to get from, like whatever procedure, we need to look at that, like if you think you're going to become a totally different individual, Because I hear this all the time, like oh, with all these people, the Kardashi, and they must have BEDD and I'm like, no, they don't like no, And I'll tell you why because I don't. I was literally catching up because you got me into like catching up with these old shows. What I've never watched them, and I'm watching like crti astually one and I'm like, wow, Chloe looks so different and power to her like I'm all about doing you. But I'm like, let's keep the narrative like real and that's it again. But I totally reside. So the difference is someone with BDD wouldn't feel comfortable probably one being on television, and two wouldn't probably go back to the places where they've been where they looked completely different. So she, like it, tends and goes to every place she's been to when she looks like a completely different person ten to fifteen years ago as she goes to today. So I think, you know, how would you really tell the difference between someone with BDD and just body image issues? Do they like I hate to say, like really hate themselves? Do they feel defective? That was huge thing with me, Like I felt de effective, like to the core to the core of who I was. It made no logical sense. I mean, it was horrible and truthfully, you know, this notion For me, it was my skin. So this notion of like if I had clear skin, like like I was like, i'll have a boyfriend, I'll have this all my best life, Like skin isn't supposed to give you that. That's not to say you don't people with BDD shouldn't take care of themselves, but none of your physical attributes should be able to give you the quality of life that you think it's going to be. And that's I think the biggest difference. And again why I respect your platform. It's like you're honest, like you're taking us in with you to get good. But there's so many people that are not honest. And I get privacy and I respect that. I do, I understand that, but I think as you know, matter as a public figure, it's like people are looking to you and they're like they're like you know, and if you have people being like no, like I got nothing done, like nothing done, and I'm just like really, like there's only so much like filters and stuff that's good, you know what I mean. But it's like, you know, my message is never about not getting things done, it's about understanding, Like for people with BDD, like they're looking at people and thinking like they're supposed to wake up and look this way, right, and and that you know, the message is like I've gotten like you know, even Jlow, like I mean I love like you know what's like you know, whether she has or has And it's like people think like, oh so if I put all of oil on my face, like I'm gonna get botox. I mean okay, Like and again, I think when you go back to what people with BDD really struggle with, they just they feel different. They feel like almost like a monster. They don't feel like I used to just feel like I just didn't look like everybody else like and I don't mean that like in a way that like we all look different, Like I literally just felt like so like.

00:37:52
Speaker 1: Odd, Yeah, you felt just out of place, like you didn't belong. I can't even image and where you would start with someone who has like I guess it would be like self loathing, like doesn't feel good enough, nothing is good. They think things will fix them if they get a little boat box or filler, but it's it's obviously an internal thing that they're battling. How do you bring someone out of that well.

00:38:16
Speaker 2: I always, especially with my narrative, my personal story, I'll always kind of go back to that initially and be like, look, I've been where you've been, so let's try to build that rapport and trust that and then kind of bring back to you have this disorder. And out of UCLA they've done like MRI studies, So actually, my brain lights up differently, let's say, than your brains because you don't have it. And so what they've seen and the research is people with med their spatial processing is different, so how they interpret their image is different than somebody that doesn't have it. So I give them a lot of psycho education about what this disorder is. I also try to tell them, look, if what your concerns are are real and valid, you wouldn't meet criteria for the diagnosis. And I mean that, of course, it's could be, you know, feel detrimental when someone has sistic acne all over their face or if they have some birth defects, it can take a toll on how they feel mentally and how they navigate through the world. But in the same respect, if the person is staring at me and there's nothing going on, then I'm like, you need criteria for this disorder because it's a perception of a small or non existent defect that nobody sees, right, So it's like they say it, but nobody else does. So we start there and then we start to pull away the layers. And I think the hardest part is that most people, both of you, I'm sure, know what it is that you look like, and people with BBB they're not going to. And that is a hard thing that you have to tell people. Even myself, like I've come to terms with don't really know what it is that I look like. And I have to kind of sit with that because if I go back to like where I was, where I was like going in and out of the mirror wanting to look a certain way, like I had no quality of life. And so I have to kind of tell clients like we need to make your parents can matter, but it also can't be your.

00:40:04
Speaker 1: Focus can't be the end all be all right, So.

00:40:07
Speaker 2: It has to be like like you're a good friend, you're a good mother, like you know, if like you're a good son, like student with all these other attributes, and nine times out of ten, if not really tenants and every client that comes in ninety percent of their value and worth is their appearance. So you start off with like you have nothing like to work like you really there's some people have zero insight. They'll come in and be like no, like don't you know, Robin, Like if I have a bad hair day, like how do you go out? I'm like, no, that's not like a normal thing. Do you understand that? Like you can have a bad hair day, but like you still have to function like your hair. Like I remember with my skin, like my dot, my therapist would be like, Robin, that's not what skin was designed. Skin was not designed for it to be clear. Like my thing was like acne and you know obviously as I got older, like it was like fine lines and stuff like that, and my thing was what my therapist was like, it's not supposed to be designed to be clear, Like you've placed that attribute on that. But your skin is just the largest organ of your body that's protecting you. Like people place with BDD like like a power and a relationship on their appearance part and no one's supposed to have it. And we start there and we start to remove because oftentimes there's behaviors they're asking for reassurance they're doing a ton of checking, so they'll go in and out of the mirror. They'll take like three hundred selfies in like twenty minutes. They'll do like videos of themselves, they'll avoid going out in bright lights, they'll do a lot of camouflage. And there's so many different behaviors. So we start to remove some of the behaviors. The thoughts are very hard, you know, the thoughts of because usually what it tends to happen is as you move the appearance concern a way, you really are left with that. They feel horrible as even.

00:41:53
Speaker 3: Being it sounds like BDD, it's accompanied by other things a lot of times or not it's OCD, because when you say things like taking three hundred selfies checking the mirror all day every day, I don't know if that's a common thing, but it sounds like it could be particularly a battle because maybe it's not just BDD, but also OCD or addiction. I don't know if addiction to exercise or and I had I saw a video about you saying you at one point stayed inside for thirty days. What what was that about? I mean, what what was that from?

00:42:31
Speaker 2: And how it's crazy? So I've never spoken company about it with an outlet. So I was on acutine and back in the day, and it led to like some facial hair growth, so I felt like I needed to get electrialsis and she like like gave me like full likeulitis. So I like broke out all over my neck and I could not That was like my biggest trigger. But again, do I think somebody would be uncomfortable with a breakout? Absolutely? Do I think it would get them to the point where it's like I had like these eight am and friends in college and lived in a house like I had like my life there, did I like intellectually now, do I think they would reject me as a friend? I mean, granted that's what happens to me as a kid, but no, I just couldn't leave my house, like I literally I was like and my parents didn't know what to do with me. I was like on and off different medications and I just ended up taking the semester off and was in some type of like group therapy at that point. Didn't get the diagnosis of bad and was basically told like I need to look at the person next to me because he just lost his wife. For fifty you just can't get out of the mirror and you just don't like your skin. And I'm like, okay, like you don't get like this has kind of been And then I think that's also what makes it harder, is like you hear people talk about their parents and you're like, oh, you're vain, Like no, like this isn't a bad manity, like I didn't want to live, Like that's serious. And I actually did not get the diagnosis till route a year and a half after that, so I was walking around after that like not knowing. I still just thought this was an appearance issue, like I'm just ugly and grows. And then it was like a year and a half later my mom found somebody who gave me the diagnosis at that point. But yeah, I mean, people do stay house down. I mean, and I have clients that you know, really won't leave or won't even attempt to do therapy until they get their procedures done or and it's and it's a really hard thing because you know it would be great if like people assessed for it, but the reality is gerrmatologists and best surgeons won't all effect their income.

00:44:35
Speaker 1: Correct, Ye, No, at all they like us coming in. Yeah, I relate to I relate to the skin thing because when everyone was like going through, you know, their awkward phase of like hitting puberty, breaking out, getting braces. Like I got my braces off right before I went into the seventh grade, so I was looking all snatched right for the for the eighth graders with my straight teeth. And I really didn't have skin issues until after high school. And I'm telling you what the amount of things I missed out on because I would not leave the house and I would obsess in the mirror. I would go back hundreds of times to see if the breakout was still happening. I would wake up in the morning and be so depressed that the morning had come because I had to deal with my skin again and it wouldn't stop. You know. It was like the hormonal breakout where it's like, how do I get this under control. I Also, it wasn't accutane that I went on, because I think that they like moved that off because of a lot of right side after side effects. But I did something different and it did clear my skin up. But I'm telling you, the skin was debilitating for me, wasn't it.

00:45:44
Speaker 2: In your book. Also, like when you were talking about like yeah, that guy and you were like going to sleep with the makeup on and see.

00:45:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it was horrific. And this was before you could like go and and I didn't have social media because I was like why would I post? You can edit photos, you could pay someone to edit them for you, but you didn't have like the quick app that you could just like swipe face tune clear that SHITEP real quick. So I totally relate. The difference is is once my skin got clear, like I did start feeling like I could go out, and like it didn't. I don't feel like it was something where I hated myself. I hated my fucking breakout. I needed it to end because there was no amount of makeup in the world that could like fix the texture, you know, with lighting. Like I didn't want to go out in the daylight. That was the worst thing. I remember going outside in the daylight and seeing my reflection in the in the the window and I was like just depressed about it. It was like I don't want to leave. I'll drive around with my mom. She would go and get take out for us. I wouldn't go in with her because I was so self conscious about it.

00:46:57
Speaker 3: Is there a way, like let's say someone young or not even young, starts going in that direction and it starts getting a little more inside. They're staying inside more there, and it starts interfering with their everyday lives. Is there something that people can start doing that might help pull them out of that so it doesn't start to maybe take control.

00:47:20
Speaker 2: So I think it's having like an honest dialogue of being like, Okay, I know we live in an appearance focused world, but like we also need to have other things about ourselves. And so with kids, it's just it's just having that conversation. It's understanding where they are with the breakouts, explaining I understand how you feel. It would also from a behavioral perspective would be like like your mom and I know, like I mean, fortunately it didn't turn into anything. It would be like, Okay, your mom's gonna be like you need to go out and get the takeout food yourself, Like I'm not going to like I'm not gonna wait, like you're not waiting in the park. Oh yeah, we're like you know what I mean, Like I mean, and or would be like you're not going out with makeups today, like but slowly going, you know, and again does everybody. I think that's the thing. There's clients that I see, especially young, where like it's questionable if they have it or not right because there is normalcy of like being self conscious with how you look, I mean at all actually all aspects of life. But I think it's about if there's any avoidant behaviors you kind of push And I was gonna say, actually bad is considered an OCD spectrum to swear, but there are a lot of kind of similarities with like the obsessive component and the compulsive component. The little bit of the biggest difference is that people with b D kind of still have a lot more trauma associated So there could be abuse associated with it. There could be like bullying, teasing, which is my thing. It could be like a poor family dynamics. We don't see that as much in OCD. We see that more with BDD. But again, if you start to notice, like younger things where maybe like they're taking a lot of pictures, you might want to say like means you know, or like I'm constantly taking social media breaks constantly. It's just to me, I mean, I give you you have to be on social media, but to me it's rot Like I just sometimes feel like what am I even doing? I'll end up on somebody's page that I don't even know, Like I don't even know what I'm doing, and I'm like, what am I doing? Like where do I get any Like I have a kid, Like what am I doing here? Like? And so sometimes I just have to go offline and I need like that like sense of coming back into the real world. And so I always like that could be one thing, like maybe come off social media and just really having like an honest dialogue. Let's say, if we're going to dermatologists, like be honest with the dermatologist, Like be honest with saying like, look, this is how I'm feeling. Again, what you notice people with BD is this very well or nothing? Thought process? Like I need to look a certain way for me to be okay, and if not, like I just don't deserve to be, like truly don't deserve to be in this world. And it's sad, it's heartbreaking. There's been a lot of suicide loss to it, and there is a lot of comorbidity with addiction because they self medicate right, and so instead of talking about it, they go and numb out. And so you see the combination of both. And I've had a lot of clients like with both, and usually recommend is treat the substance use first and then go in and do the media work because that's obviously the most crucial part of you know. And I have a ton of people in recovery, which I have so much respect for you, and I have to say this, they find recovery easier than this work. Wow, it blew my mind. I had about twenty five percent of my clients with comorbid like substance abuse, and they were in like living their best life, like ten years sober, I had twenty eight years. They could not get on this train that I was doing with them, and I'm like, I'm trying to understand. I'm like, you do the hardest thing day in day out, but it's like the thought of letting go of like who they saw themselves to be, it was just so hard, and they just it was it was just almost impossible with some of them. And I just and I was like, can we look at the strength that you have from being sober and what that takes to really like dig deep to do that, because that you have to be a strong person to be sober. I'm sorry, it's a literally strong person. So I'm like to use some of that strength. And it was it was interesting to see that it was not They couldn't really transfer it for whatever reason. It was harder.

00:51:16
Speaker 1: So on that note, because you know, you always hear people struggling with addiction, they always say I'm in recovery because the fact of the matter is you will never be recovered, you know. It's it's one disease that you have to work at every single day. You'll never be cared from it. Is that how it is with BDD, Like you have to work at it pretty much every day.

00:51:40
Speaker 2: Yes, one, so I have it. I like stam in recovery. But I always tell my clients like I can equally be right back with where you're at, Like if I end up doing something like it's funny like I went in I wanted to get a facial And I'll always say this, if you can answer these three questions, please do whatever it is you want. If you could be okay that it looks the same when you come out, go get it done. If you could be okay that it looks better, get it done. If you could be okay it looks worse, get it on. The worst is when no one can answer that, and then I'm like, well then you can't go in. And I was like, you can't if you're not gonna be okay that it could possibly look worse then you So like I went into like to talk about getting a facial and it was so interesting. I'm so honest about it. I'm like, hey, s YI have body this work disorder. So probably never going to get a laser because I've gotten one before and it blew up my whole life, like my kids do not. I ended up in three weeks of intensive therapy because I got a laser on Moral Canyon and I told that PA that I have BDD and he's like, okay, let's see head to toe what we can do for you. And I couldn't handle the redness after an IPL and it like set me into a fold.

00:52:49
Speaker 1: Even though you knew the redness would go away, I guess I couldn't. You couldn't put it this way.

00:52:55
Speaker 2: The emotional thing with made the redness not go away, so so anxious that it literally was not going away. And I like this, I like lost it and I was like I ended up like having to take a medical leave for my job. It was like the worst two hundred dollars spent and it like ended me up in like six thousand dollars worth the therapy and like it was like so it was just it's so interesting to me, Like when I went to this person and she's like, oh, you can go get a consult for filler, and and I'm like, did you just hear what I told you? Like? Am I like? And I think sometimes like truthfully, even if you tell somebody, they look at it as like you're a cash cow like.

00:53:35
Speaker 1: One then they're like, oh, this person's coming back day after day to get filled up to the brim.

00:53:41
Speaker 2: But on the flip side, there was an amazing dermatologist like right by, like what is it like Century City And he was like, Robin, there's no amount of money that I will take for me to give you botox because you will call me every single day and not happy.

00:53:55
Speaker 1: Right, It's not worth it.

00:53:56
Speaker 2: He's like, not worth it. He's like I don't want He's like I like you, but like never going to happen. I'm not touching your face and I was like, okay, and I really respect that, but you don't find that and so that's no, that's the problem with people with BDD. It's like you'll have people like I had a client with a nose job, where like there are a ton of doctors that said no, but you will find the doctor that will say yes. You know somebody who wants hair transplant, they said no before the age of twenty five, and sure enough they'll find someone that will do it. So it's like it's really hard for like, you know myself and naturally, like I speak a lot about it, is because I have it. Like I'm not just somebody that like read a book about it, Like right, this is their life.

00:54:37
Speaker 1: You specialize in it, you've had it, you relate to it. I think that's the most powerful thing.

00:54:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know. And but to answer a question, I think I'm in recovery every day. I think as there's times where it's a lot easier, there's times where it's slightly can be harder. You know. I'm very like I'm always like analyzing myself, I guess as a therapist, and I'll be like, oh my god, like this is hits me in all aspects of life. And I think that's a newer piece that most therapists who treat this disorder don't do, Like they'll do the behavioral work, like it knows I specialize also in o SK and they'll do the behavioral work, but they won't look at like what are your core beliefs about yourself? So like no one sat there and asked me, like, Robin, how do you feel about yourself? And I would have been like, I feel like I am the most worthless human being, like beyond just my skin. And maybe if they would have done that, they could have saved me three relationships that I definitely didn't need to be in, and like my life would have been a lot different. But of course, like they just were like, oh, if she could stop the behavior, she's fine, and that was not the case. And so I like strive, like with my clients to see them as a whole person. I want, I want to like know their story. I want to know, like really get into the nitty gritty. And I think that that's a newer thing because usually with therapy, they want like evidence these practices, and they want things like super clean and more intense intense, like cite with therapy is like you can't measure that, so they're not as interested in it. But it needs to happen. And so you know, recovery is not easy. I mean, you know, it's just not it's not. But I think we all go through through things, and I think that's what is reality to this world. I think unless you've like lived under a rock like you've been, something has happened to you and either you've had the coping to work through it or or sometimes you don't have good coping to work through it, and that's what lands you into possibly needing for support.

00:56:30
Speaker 1: I'm beyond thrilled that I that we found each other because I think this needs to be a grander topic. And I won't even lie I've thrown I mean, I've had friends where they look in the mirror and they talk about their bodies, and I've told them, you have body dysmorphia because I'm like, I'm looking at you. You look fucking fire, but like you really have shed a lot of light. And I think my listeners are going to be very appreciative. Where can they find you? On social media?

00:56:57
Speaker 2: So you could find me at the badd and OC Therapist that's on Instagram, and then you could also find my website which is Rlsterntherapy dot com.

00:57:09
Speaker 3: Is it Instagram handle all once? So it's the b D D and ot D Therapist. Okay, got it.

00:57:14
Speaker 1: I love it. Keep spreading the word, keep doing amazing work. I'm so proud of you, and I'm so happy that we found each other.

00:57:19
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, guys, thank you for having me.