Ken Rosenthal: Cody Bellinger & Luis Arráez FA cases, Mets plan, Orioles pursuing Kyle Tucker?

00:00:05
Speaker 1: That's it The Inside Scoop with FT senior insider Ken Rosenthal. Ken, we had you on to talk about the Orioles and Angels trade, and I know you address that as well on fair Territory. Layer two that we didn't get to until right now is how you think the rest of the offseason is going to shape out for Baltimore. Can you give us more context on what that might look like and do you really believe that they are going to be serious players for Kyle Tucker.

00:00:31
Speaker 2: Okay, what I think they're going to do most heavily is focus on starting pitching and bullpen. They need to rebuild almost their entire bullpen. Remember they traded almost their entire bullpen at the deadline or before it. And they know if Bautista is not going to be healthy until later in the season, if then, they've already traded for Kittridge and exercised his options. So that's one piece, but they need others starting rotation, no secret either what they need there. They have Bratish and Trevor Rodgers at the top. That's good, but they want one more guy to fit into that upper half or upper three fifths of the rotation. A third starter to go with those guys and maybe one more, although they do have some depth now the Tucker thing. I reported yesterday that they have not ruled out Kyle Tucker. Even with the acquisition of Taylor Ward in the Rodriguez trade. Their outfield right now is pretty set in the corners, especially, they maybe will try to upgrade and center. Tucker, though, is an exception. And Tucker also is a guy that michae Elias drafted with the Houston Astros that great twenty fifteen draft where the Astros got Bregman second and Tucker fifth amazing. So executives often have an attachment to players they draft or develop, and that's probably what is driving this to a certain extent. We will see in the end if the Orioles are are the team that can get a starting pitcher, a big one, it's Fromberveldez type and a guy like Tucker. Based on their past history, you intend to doubt it. Based on the market forces, you intend to doubt it. Other teams are going to be in on Kyle Tucker fromberveld as all the other starters. But again, what I reported Scott was that they've not ruled themselves out of anything, at least at this point.

00:02:25
Speaker 3: All right, Ken, I have to tell you this Oriole fan base has been just eviscerating me. And I know they love you because you were there. No, they don't love me, they love you. You were there. You were one of their guys. So I've never seen anything bad said about you, Ken, So don't worry about it. But I got eviscerrated for what we were saying about Brayson Rodriguez. And it's really been like a lot of like more the decision making of the organization that do fans should fans think that what they've done, what Michaelias has done so far with this tank and now the supposed rebuild has been successful.

00:03:08
Speaker 2: It was successful in the sense that they made the playoffs back to back seasons in twenty three and twenty four. It has not been successful in taking that next step to being a World Series type contender, and they took a significant step backwards last season. And the criticism of Elias has been that as great a job as he did building up their system and bringing prospects to the majors, he has not been able to finish it. Finish off with the top of the roster. And we saw that last year, with the offseason that they had, when they only brought in Morton in Chicano, when they had just lost Corbin Burns, it wasn't enough. The rotation fell apart early on and until Rogers got going, until Bradish came back, it was a complete mess. So it is fair, certainly to look at michae Elias and say, okay, this is it. Now you have a team that should be better. We have a division in which the Toronto Blue Jays came off last place finished last year and went right to the top. So this is a huge off season for Elias and there's not much question about that. The Rodrigaz trade a couple of things. I mentioned it on my show and maybe on foul Territory a couple of days ago. One. To me, this is a calear vote of no confidence in Grayson Rodriguez. They do not believe he is going to be healthy enough, not just in twenty six, but in the three years beyond to continue investing in in terms of their franchise, thinking that he is going to be the guy. The other part of this was Taylor Ward is a right handed bat, a right handed hitting outfielder in a market that is starved for right handed hitting outfielders, so he was kind of a rare commodity. It took a high price to get him. Now, whether this works or not, we don't know right now. It's certainly fair to assume that Grayson rodad Riguez in twenty twenty six will be on innings limits. The Angels have already said that. We know that he isn't pitched in a year and a half. Beyond that is the question. And he seems confident. We're going to have him on the show later today. He seems confident that he's going to be able to throw a lot of innings. But again, what the Orioles did in making this trade was show their lack of confidence that he will be able to do that.

00:05:23
Speaker 4: Let's go a little north to the New York Yankees. I love Yankee talk. Let's start with Cody Bellinger. I mean, the guy had a pretty good year of excuse me, he had a good year in my opinion, he did really well. And he talks to him coming back to New York right.

00:05:36
Speaker 2: Now, a lot of talk. Todd. Now, it's one thing to talk, it's another thing to get it done. And Bellinger and Bregman and some of these other free agents who are represented by Scott Boris. Generally speaking, Boris free agents do not sign quickly. Now, he's made exceptions a few times where he's had a lot of guys and he kind of went in a sequential or where he had some of them signed the Winter Meetings, some of them after that. The best example of that was the year Cole, Rendon and Strasbourg were free agents. They all signed at the Winter Meetings. So we saw Sodo last year signed fairly early was that the meetings. So it's possible one of these guys or multiple guys get done in that timeframe. The Yankees obviously want Bellinger back. They've been very public about that, and I would expect that they are leading contender for him. But Todd, you know how free agency works. It's impossible to predict who is going to go where because you don't know where the money is, where the money's coming from, and which teams have the most interest.

00:06:41
Speaker 4: We'll go to another guy, Devin Williams. We've talked about him before a lot of Yankee fans on edge a little bit of how he did, and you know, he struggled a little bit I felt like he could have had a better year. Is there a Yankee talk with him coming back? Maybe a little reunion or something sort.

00:06:57
Speaker 2: There has been, And I reported this with Willson and yesterday in The Athletic Todd that he is a guy that they have at least talked to. They never considered his year as bad as it looked at times. Obviously he had certain blow up games, certain struggles, but overall still a big swing and miss guy. Still did a lot of good things. And in a bullpen market that is pretty deep in closer types, he is going to be one of the more attractive ones. So yes, the Yankees, I've had contact with him, but still have a number of other teams, Mets, number of other teams. So I would expect him to be a guy who does fairly well in free agency. He won't be at Edwin Diaz's level, perhaps, but he still should command a decent multi year deal.

00:07:42
Speaker 3: All right, what other the Met's going to do? We go across town? How are the Mets going to You wrote that they're going to attack their rotation. They're going to talk about retooling their bullpen, just like every team. How are they going to do? It differently than the Mets and David Stern has ever done it is an entire career as a general manager.

00:08:03
Speaker 2: Well, the one thing David Stearns has not done as ahead of baseball operations is spend heavily in free agency on starting pitching. And it worked for him a couple of years ago when they got Mania and Severino on the one year deals and both were really good. It did not work last year when Mania was hurt. Frankie Montas now dfaid, this is a strategy that, like long term investments in starting pitching can be risky. So what do you do now? I would expect that they're going to be active in trade talks for a starting pitcher, for those starters who might be available, and there is not a clear picture yet on which ones are actually going to move. The teams that have Trek Scoobel and Freddie Peralta and Joe Ryan even have said we're not all that interested in doing that. Some teams think they're posturing. We'll have to see as time goes by, so the Mets can do that. They also, though I would expect, are going to sign a big starter this offseason, and David Stearns is going to go out of his comfort zone to do that or out of what he has done in the past. They're going to be an interesting team to watch because obviously they have a ton of money invested in this team. They've got a huge free agent in Diaz, a huge free agent in Pete Alonso. And while both those guys are important, or at least what they do is important, if someone else can do it great. Starting pitching is why they collapsed last year. That was the downfall of the Mets. They've got to address it.

00:09:32
Speaker 3: Is there any indication that Steve Cohen is maybe fearful on both ends? He said, I trust David Stearns because he came in after we got Surezer and Verlander. Well, Sharzer and Verlander didn't work out. David Sterns up until May of last year, looked like, oh, Stevie Cohen's gonna trust and believe in these rentals besides Mantas. But is there fe I guess you would never say Steve Cohen is fearful, But is there any indication that he is more on the stern side or is this like, hey, it didn't work last year. We are definitely what you said going for somebody big.

00:10:08
Speaker 2: It's a good question, Eric, and I don't know the answer. And I would say that Steve Cohen most likely remains quite confident in David Sterns. He hired him, and you're right. Up until June of last year, they were rolling, They looked great, they had come. They had a great season in twenty four where they got to the NLCS. But when a team they were beaten out by the Cincinnati Reds, there is going to be I would expect some doubt in the mind of Steve Cohen, not just about David Sterns, but about Carlos Mendoza. So while I would not suggest that either is in trouble, the Mets did change a ton of coaches, which indicates their level of frustration. That's the first step, and then we'll see what happens this year. So I would say Cohen is still confident in Stern's and I would expect Mendoza as well. But again, some of that got punctured last year. I would imagine, simply by what happened, it's inevitable that people would think that way. Ken.

00:11:11
Speaker 1: Let me get a fan question or two in here. So MJ Sports Cards ask can we ask Ken about potential trades for kateel Marte. Do you think that's a real name that's going to surface this offseason? And I know that there is a factor in play with his ten five rights coming up this season, so it's now or never.

00:11:29
Speaker 2: It's definitely a factor and it's definitely a real name. So katel Marte is one of the best second basemen in baseball. There's not much question about that. He's signed for several more years at a rate where if he is productive, it is still quite reasonable. So why would the Diamondbacks want to trade him? Well, the reason would be they have so many holes and maybe if they trade him they can fill those holes. Now, is it likely this is going to happen? I don't know that I would call it likely. Is it something that is being discussed at Absolutely, it is being discussed, and absolutely the Diamondbacks are in a funny position because remember they traded Meller Kelly, They lost Zach Gallant a free agency, not expected to get him back. Corbyn Burns is out for a good portion of the season, at least the first half. I would expect after Tommy John surgery. Two of their top relievers aj Puck, Justin Martinez also coming off Tommy John surgery. These guys are going to come back, and they're gonna come back in the second half. We don't know what their level of production will be. Maybe they're back even in the late in the first half, but we don't know what they're gonna do. And the Diamondbacks have these pitching needs and they want to maybe balance things out a little bit. So a trade of Marte is at least something that you would explore if you're the Diamondbacks. Does it happen? Do they get everything they want for him? That I'm not sure of.

00:12:51
Speaker 3: You wrote about the shortstop position for the Braves about how they got Mauricio Dubon and maybe it would be okay if they didn't maybe have as productive a shortstop, and you listed I think five teams Yankees, Mariners, Guardians, Brewers, and who is the fifth team, Tiger Tigers.

00:13:13
Speaker 2: The Tigers Tigers had also had the Blue Jays because they went to him in as in September and he was not a good offensive player during the regular season.

00:13:21
Speaker 3: So that's a brave But the Braves want to The Braves want to win the World Series. That is why they gave all these extensions. None of those teams won the World Series. Now, the Blue Jays, I would take them off the list because they had Boba Schett and he kind of carried them. Is it if they do not go and get somebody else that has more of an offensive upside? Is that a sign that well, we didn't want to spend enough to make it or is that a sign that it's just tough to find that at the shortstop position. And we're just gonna kind of have to deal with it because the last few seasons we haven't had it and look at where we've been.

00:13:58
Speaker 2: Eric will have to see And you're asking valid questions. One, are they going to spend what they have said they will spend. The chairman of the team, Terry McGirk, has said he anticipates them being a top five payroll team. Again. The problem they're having at shortstop is that there aren't many good ones available. Hash On Kim is the leading guy in free agency and Scott Boris and Kim they want to explore the market. They don't want to just sign with the Braves in November. And if the Braves made him an offer right now, let's say it was a competitive offer. If you're Boris, you're thinking, Okay, that's the floor. Let's see what else we can get. That's normal, that's free agency. So they can still sign Kim, and maybe if Kim's market doesn't develop in a way that he and Boris expect, that can happen. But it's not something that they could certainly bank on, and that is why they went out and got Dubon. Now, are there other shortstops who could factor into their discussions at some point this offseason? Could C. J. Abrams, the Nationals shortstop, be someone that they discuss? Possibly is Gil Tovar. I included him in the column just because the Rockies, you don't know who they'll trade. And certainly, while Tovar is probably one of their two or three best players, he's a guy that maybe they feel they can get a lot for and turnover in that way. I don't know. The Braves, though, what they did with Dubon was simply establish a baseline for what they will have going into twenty six. Now, the point of listing those teams with shortstops that didn't have great production at the position last year was to point out that you can make the postseason. You can even get to the World Series and get within two outs of the World Series with a less than potent offensive shortstop. Is it the way you would prefer to go? Absolutely, it is not. They want to do better at that position. It's just not clear whether that's going to be possible.

00:15:55
Speaker 1: Ken last one, I'm going to give you two player names who have some similarities and some signal differences. One can be up for grabs if you trade the other ones a free agent. Have you heard anything or have any thoughts on Luisa Rise and Stephen Kwan. This is accumulation of many questions coming in from fans. I'm like, let me just bunch those two together because they're both great at one trade and then they have many differences on the rest. But what do you think of those two heading into this hot stove season?

00:16:21
Speaker 2: Well, of course, these are the contact kings of the sport right now. And Luisa Rise Mike Petriello of MLB dot Com wrote an interesting story about him today on how polarizing a guy He is high padding average for sure, he makes incredible contact, but there isn't much else to recommend this game. He's not a great defender, and he certainly does not hit for power. His market is something that is going to be really curious to see, and Petriela listed the Rockies as maybe the best fit for him because he's a guy that obviously can spray the ball and that's a place where you get base hits because the outfield is so big. So I don't know how it's going to go for him. Now. Kwan is entirely different. Kwan is a better defender for one thing, in left field. He is someone who is quite productive as an offensive player, and he's someone who is due to make about nine million in arbitration. The Guardians discussed him at the deadline. They set their bar high and no one met it. Will they discuss him again? I would expect that they would, simply because that's what the Guardians do. But if you trade Stephen Kwan off an offense that was a bottom five offense last season, then where are you? And this is a team, remember coming off back to back playoff appearances, not plate appearances. So yeah, they can entertain it, but it would have to be a really good return and they'd have to get some offensive help. They do have some young hitters coming that I know they're excited about, but you also need veterans, and Stephen Kwan is a stabilizer for that franchise. To me, that would be a tough guy to trade right now.

00:17:59
Speaker 3: If there were trade him. We had heard before that Classe and him were kind of in a package at nine million dollars for a contact type of hitter. Does the league look at it that maybe they'd have to throw in some type of bullpen piece in with him, because stand alone teams are clearly Padres are trying to get rid of Luisa Rise forever and he was making close to that last year.

00:18:23
Speaker 2: I don't think you need to package Stephen Kuan with a reliever, And there was talk of both of them at the deadline classe before of course the gambling stuff surfaced, but it was never necessarily a package. It was that they were both getting discussed in trade separately. So no, to me, Stephen Kwan is value. We saw that at the deadline. Dodgers wanted him, other teams wanted him, and it didn't get done because the price wasn't meant. But he's got value, pretty high value within the industry.

00:18:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, more of a complete player too than Arise. Although I love me some Luisa rise in spurts, I know, not as good as season ken good stuff. Enjoy the weekend. No, we're loading up, getting ready. Winter meetings right around the corner. But we'll see you next week.

00:19:06
Speaker 2: Thanks guys.

00:19:08
Speaker 5: Or they need to do a trade deadline in the winter, I think that will really speed up. I think last year the trade deadline of they were talking about cease and a couple other guys holding up markets because they didn't know who was gonna get traded, and then markets don't move. So I think to speed up maybe a free agent situation, put a trade deadline in the wintertime, because once you're on a team and all that, you know, it's hey, after let's say after January fifteenth, you're with that team until you know April, was it April? They can't trade you until April thirtieth or something like that or April I don't remember. Once she's but maybe put a little window there that might might help some things out. But all in all, you want to be ready to go wherever you go by the first of the year so you can get things set up.

00:19:50
Speaker 1: That's Lance Lane on the revamped Cardinal Territory, which also features really a great cast of characters. You can see him on there just now with Jimmy is In Manha and Kyle Gibson. But he brought up an interesting idea, Kratz. We we hear a lot about the signing deadline, but the trade deadline makes way more sense. The signing deadline is going to cause significant labor issues and it's just never gonna happen.

00:20:14
Speaker 2: The trade deadline is doable.

00:20:15
Speaker 1: You're able to do a dark period during the winter meetings, and I do or after the Winter meetings, and I do think that it would lead to overall more activity in the market and quicker activity, because that is the common thing. Oh we're waiting on the trade market. Oh we're waiting on the players to sign, and it's like okay, and then nothing happens for two months.

00:20:34
Speaker 3: Never can you touch somebody's six year free agency. You can never say, ooh, you know, we're gonna put a deadline on this. We're gonna put a cap on this, We're gonna put it takes so much to get to be a big lead free agent. You can't touch that. But I love this because it'll it'll it'll solve a lot of things. If a team's like, ah, you know I'm in on this trade.

00:20:55
Speaker 2: I'm out.

00:20:55
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know Dylan Cease is worth. You know he's gonna get paid ten million. Are we willing to spend ten million?

00:21:03
Speaker 2: Ah?

00:21:03
Speaker 3: They don't want to trade them.

00:21:04
Speaker 2: It's not a fit.

00:21:06
Speaker 3: Bang we move on the free agents right away, or it would get what we didn't see last year, like teams were just calling, hey, how's the off season, Hey, how's your truck running? All this stuff? What are you thinking about a team no offers. It would start getting teams saying, hey, we're gonna make an offer at like this year, at a Zach Gallon, Hey, we're gonna offer you five years twenty million a year. Because if Gallon says, no, I want five years. I want five years one forty. Now, all of a sudden, it kicks back because we have to do this early. It kicks back and say, Okay, we're gonna go after Sandyl Contra. We're gonna go after whatever it's gonna take for trek Skouble, whatever that is. I think it kicks everything up faster, which is what people want.

00:21:51
Speaker 4: And I love what Lancett said. I wish they would do that. Being a part of it cratzy, as you know, it's it takes a mental toll on the guys that are trying to find a team, the second and third tier players, and it just it gets frustrating. I do agree with him. I wish they could do something like that, so you know, at the end of the day, you kind of know exactly where you're going. And then it makes them, meaning the owners in GMS, a little more of a push. All right, we can't get this guy. This guy says he's not going there, boom. Then who's next. Then a guy like me comes along, all right, let's go.

00:22:25
Speaker 2: Let's talk.

00:22:25
Speaker 4: So I would love to see