Episode 36: What We Learned At A Mondioring Seminar

Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Canine Connection
podcast. Today, Lori and I, we're not really
sure what we're going to talk about, but we're
going to start with talking about what we did
this past weekend, which is I drove up to Lori's
place in Connecticut because she was hosting
a seminar on Mondio Ring, which is like, well,
what the heck is that? I mean, I don't think
we have to get in too much detail, but it's it.
It's predominantly known as one of the bite sport,
you know, sports. There are several. But this
one is the one you should go and look it up because
if you like to do proofing, which I love to do,
I would like find these little TikToks. of them
doing these crazy Mondio ring proofing things.
And then I would send it to my two training partners
and we'd be like, and they're like, oh, we got
to try that this weekend. They do all kinds of
crazy distractions. But I also sign my dogs up
for bite work. People are like. Why are you going
to do Mondio ring now? Which I could, if I, you
definitely could. Well, I mean, I just meant
with my breed, like you don't have to have like
a shepherd or a mound. Well, that's the great
thing about Mondio ring because they are so welcoming
to all breeds. Like that's kind of like what
I think. is attractive to a lot of people because
the other sports like French ring and stuff,
like it's predominantly, you know, mouths and
shepherds and Dobermans, the typical breeds you
would see pointy eared breeds, but Mondio has
become like, it's really nice because Mondio
has become like, you know, like just all American
rescue. Like they welcome everybody to try to
participate in it. So that's. Yeah. And you can
do, I think IGP. has one has a little bit of
this but anyway you could do just the so they
have an obedience portion a jumping portion and
a um the bite protection portion and you could
just do like the obedience portion yeah right
If you wanted so or you could just do the jumping
and blah, blah, you know. So, I mean, mainly
I just did it because I just thought it would
be fun. My dogs love to tug. Zaina, like is very
they're pretty confident dogs. And I thought
they would like the bite work. I figured if they
didn't like, who cared? Like, you know, it's
fun to do something where there's like no pressure.
I don't really have to take tons of notes. Like
I could just go and we could just do it. Right.
No, my dogs love bite work. Yeah. I was going
to ask if your arms were sore from holding back.
Well, what what so so what I really liked is
a couple of things. One is it was another reminder
that training is training, right? Like good training
is good training. So they don't just say, OK,
man is going to stand here in a suit and say,
OK, dog, go bite the man. Right. Like. They broke
it down just like we would, the way Lori and
I train, like any task, we would break it into
little pieces, right? And just slowly build confidence
on that. So they're like, here's a little sleevy
thing. Petra, you tug with your dog with it.
So your dog's comfortable with it. And then,
okay, now. You put the dog on a harness and like
I hold them back and they tease the dog, get
the dog excited. And then they build up piece
by piece by piece. Right. I mean, Zesty did build
up to biting the guy with the sleeve, obviously
on the arm and on the leg. But the other thing
that they're really into, I don't know if it's
the whole sport or if it's just these trainers,
but they want it. It's not about aggression at
all. It's just about fun. They want the dog happy.
They want the dog having a good time. They want
the dog comfortable. So they were really looking,
you know, to make sure the dogs were each step
happy and having a good time. Not they weren't
trying to build aggression in the dog. Yeah.
That that, you know, and I don't really know.
I'm not that familiar with the sport either.
You know, I know these two well enough knowing
that that's how they train. So I wouldn't I wouldn't
be able to say overall that's how it works. But
I do know from just knowing some people in Mondio
that it is like they definitely focus. highly
on making sure the dogs are having fun it's not
about aggression or building them up to that
aggression point where the dog's just you know
that wanting to bite out of just I want to kill
you it's just for fun they do it in a and what
was really good what was really great because
we talk about this all the time is reading the
dog like even you know these guys talked about
that a lot they're constantly assessing when
they took dogs out like they took my puppy out
who had never done it they're assessing they're
evaluating where the dog's state of mind is during
the whole process of introducing them to it um
and then they would absolutely like react and
adjust according to just like we do right you
know making sure that the dog's in the right
mindset um It was just, it was impressive. I
was really, it was really cool. It was really
awesome. Yeah. And I think it was real. I think
what the bite work did, I will say, holy Hannah,
like Zesty's tugging differently. Not an OMG.
Yes. You need to get a sleeve. He's like. And
even and then I'm like, well, you know, yes.
So yesterday I was like, well, it's in the yard.
And then I went to this like the you know, the
outside of the supermarket today. And he was
like, game on. So I do think like. If you have
someone you could work with that you trust with
bite work, that's really good. I think it could
serve two purposes. One, like for Zaina, it was
the most fun day of her life. She was like, I
get to do this thing and bark and bite and like
tug. And so I for sure, like I have friends that
are in the area that I trust. Like I made a mental
note. to touch base with her and be like, hey,
can I just come over? Like, I don't know, every
once in a while, like as a reward, as a like
change of pace. Yeah. Just do like a bite work
session with the two of them. Like just as like
a release, just something fun to do. For Zesty,
I do feel like it really strengthened his tugging.
So if you have a dog and you're like, well, I'd
like them to tug more like Zesty. Until recently
would always prefer food over toy. I'm like,
geez, I should have done this like two years
ago because I do think it would have gotten him
to choose toy over food. Right. It really brought
that out, whether it's like confidence, you know,
or whatever the technique. So I thought both
those things were interesting and. um something
to think about right and like it just gives them
a nice mental break like it's something they're
enjoying and having fun doing and there's really
absolutely no pressure no really no rules per
se right um I agree it's kind of the same it's
the same as us like we do the same things all
the time and then sometimes like we want to go
do like we need to take a break and go do something
just for fun you know a recreational thing like
I think so too like to step away and just go
have something else to let the dogs do that's
so enjoyable I feel like it like I feel like
was zesty it like unleashed something in him
like where now I don't know like with what you're
saying like with his tug and stuff I don't know
like there's those little seeds that are already
in there genetically and I think things can like
just you know nurture those little things in
them and like, it's just going to like unleash
it. I don't know. I just think that can happen.
Yeah. So, um, so those things were to me like,
um, super interesting. And then as like, honestly,
if I was retired, I would seriously like maybe
just once in a while go drop in on a training.
Cause So the way they're, especially the obedient,
well, all their trials have like themes and it's
all about distraction, right? Like really, if
you break it down, like everything is each trial,
they never know what they're going to get. They
never know what kind of distractions they're
going to get. And they do crazy distractions.
Like I felt like, holy Hannah, like I need to.
step up my game. I was like, dude, like I'm like,
wait till Thursday. Like we're going to, it's
going to be a whole new thing, but you know.
It's just like anything, if it's done right,
that like the dogs just think it's fun. And I
knew Zaina would like it because Zaina, I think
she just finds obedience boring. Like I wish
they would just do distractions and obedience
like in the ring because she loves it. And I
mean, they did the food refusal. I was afraid
to do it with Zesty. I'm going to have to work
on it separately. They literally like if you
go on my Facebook page and look at the video,
they like they like pretend they're eating and
then they like throw the food. They drop it like
on their paws right in front of their mouth.
They do all kinds of crazy shenanigans. And I
was like, I don't know if Dana can do this. Of
course, you know, if I did it at home, she'd
probably eat everything. But like she's like.
I have an audience. Yeah. No. That's right. I'm
going to show these stupid humans like what I
can do. And then like positions. Sometimes the
handler has to like lay on the floor and then
sit on a chair and then wear a funny hat and
then do this thing and do that crazy thing. In
addition to distractions. Yeah. Being around.
And so I'm like. OK, like I know she can do it
with all kinds of shenanigans, but I'm like,
I've never done it like laying on the floor or
sitting up. She did it. Little bitch. She did
it. Well, that's her training coming out, too.
You know, she's like totally fully trained. She's
and you've proved her enough and she loves it.
That that dog rises to the challenge, man. yeah
so the harder you're gonna make it the more she's
gonna bring it that dog she's so funny so um
so yeah they do like tons and tons of proofing
thing but the the key there is and this is like
um what I think people can benefit from because
humans are creatures of habit right and I feel
like I've mentioned this before but like you
know if you're training with somebody and they're
distracting you, pay attention because they'll
have a tendency to kind of distract a similar
way all the time. And the dog picks up on that
pattern. So with my two Thursday training partners,
we strive to do different things all the time,
whether it's different things. items we bring
to training or just different things we do as
a person, right? Like we try to do it different
all the time. And so in Mondial Ring, the distraction
at a trial is never going to be the same and
they strive to be. completely different so that
the dog's never seen it before which means for
training you have to be super creative and show
your dog as many different things as humanly
possible right yeah the so their trials are always
um themed so every trial is themed and then like
it's literally like They create like, it's like
a theater stage. It's crazy. People are dressed
up. They've got props. They've got like, I mean,
one of the scenarios she was describing, just
to give everybody an example, was when she went
to Spain. It was like a shipwreck theme, she
said, and they had to do their sit -stay. The
dogs had to be on this. angulated plank which
was two different materials the dog had to sit
there then the plank started to vibrate and then
under the handler out of sight with the handler
out of sight the dog has to sit on the plank
up in the air on an angle the plank starts to
vibrate and then she said whale noises they played
whale noises coming from underneath the plank
And then a fog machine turned on. Crazy. That's
what I was like, oh boy, we got a really hard
game. But they never know. The thing is, they
don't know what's coming. And, you know, yes,
like you're never going to be able to fully replicate
all of that. Like you're not, you're just not
going to think of everything. But the fun of
it to me is, is like. getting in like tapping
into that creativity of what can we like I sat
there and I'm like you know we proof but you're
right like we kind of get stuck in the same pattern
like somebody throws a dumbbell somebody waving
their arm somebody's calling commands like pretending
they're in the other ring but we really like
I'm like I I am lame this is lame I was like
we are lame -os I we gotta up the game man and
really because it is like the and you could see
like her dog the dog her dog was like I mean
it was just I don't know the dog like was obviously
is very highly trained and and it has been doing
this for a while now but you could see the joy
in it they have they do the um What was the one
that she had to do? The object guard. Like, that
was one. Oh, yeah. That was really cool. So fun.
Like, I'm just like, how do you teach that? Like,
it's so cool. Where the dog, they put an object
down. It could be anything. So, again, they don't
know what it's going to be. They're handed it.
I think they handed it, right? And they have
to walk it out to the field. The dog has to put
it on it. It's some big thing. They used, well,
it was your thing, right? This giant stuffed
thing that you have. Yeah, I have this huge giant
stuffed duck. So they demoed on that. And yeah,
so the dog has to guard it pretty much, right?
So the dog can't be pulled off the item. So the
decoy's job is to try to kind of trick the dog.
into luring the dog off the item so like they
could potentially steal it from the dog like
that's kind of the game that's what i would call
it like it's a total game it's so fun to watch
that really cool yeah it's really cool and i
think the thing is with our sport i think people
um with a lot of sports people underestimate
The challenges, right? Like people always look
at everything like from a human perspective,
right? Like, oh, it looks the same. But like
everything you do, whether it's obedience, rally,
hunt, everything, it's different every time from
a dog's perspective. It smells different. It
sounds different. There are different. visual
pictures right and dogs innately are not not
good people at generalizing so no you can't prepare
your dog for everything but if you're changing
what you do all the time then your dog learns
the concept that no matter what happens no matter
what I hear no matter what I see no matter what
I smell I need to stay on task Right. Then when
something unique does happen and it will happen
forever. I've been doing this for decades. I
go to trials and routinely something happens
that's never happened before. Right. And. Like
my dogs, I expect them to just be like, yeah,
whatever about it, because my goal is to expose
them to so many. different things that when something
different happens, they're just like, oh, yeah,
it's another one of those crazy, weird things,
you know, these crazy humans do to try to mess
me up. And the other part of it is and well,
we should probably have a whole episode just
on proofing like you want to make it a game,
right? That's that's what it's all about. That's
why Zaina thinks it's so fun. And Zesty now is
starting to think it's fun, too, because. It's
a game. Like if you present, if you teach it
as a game, not as a way to make the dog wrong,
not as a trap to catch the dog and then, you
know, mess the dog up. It's a way for the dog
to win the challenge. Then the dogs rise to the
occasion and they love it. And they think it's
super fun and it makes them really confident
and empowers them. Yeah. It totally does. It
absolutely does. And that's the thing. Like,
it's just like, no, you know, you're just, I
don't know, you're just generalizing, like no
matter where we go and what happens, unless you
feel like your life's in danger, obviously, you
know, you just keep doing the thing. We do it
everywhere and this could happen and that could
happen and we just keep going. And then the dogs
totally learn that. The approach we take in doing
that is we set, you know, yeah, we definitely
should do a proofing episode for sure. It's just
done so mindfully. It's just we want the like
just like we talked about in the beginning, like
we want the dogs to be happy and confident and
we're reading them and assessing them. And obviously,
if it gets way too hard, you know, we just back
off of it, you know, and layer it back on as
the dog becomes more confident because that's
really what we want to do. And that's what they
do. Like, that's what. they did this weekend
they talked about a lot of that and how they
like which was really impressive like they spent
time talking to us on how they you know where
they want the dogs to be comfortable this is
how we start things um and I don't know I just
it was really good it was good it's so funny
like I was at this trial and I'm sending I have
Zane I'm sending my articles right And I'm like,
I'm getting annoyed because I'm like, what the
fuck is going on? There's like, but I'm not going
to look, right? Because I'm looking at her. She
looks at me. I don't look away. But something
sounds like it's like moving all over the place
and whatever. And I look at her and she's not
even registering it, right? So I'm like, whatever.
I'm not even going to worry about it. So I stopped
thinking about it. So I sent the article. She
gets the first article, sending the second article.
And all of a sudden the judge is like, oh, my
God, I can't take it. She's like, that's making
me crazy. I go, yeah, what is it? So there is
like a little dog in like a very kennel type
crate. And it's like flipping out and the crates
rolling around. It's like mass chaos the whole
time. I'm sending the article and it was so bad
that this judge, I know this judge, like she
doesn't usually care about stuff was getting
like so annoyed and like frustrated. Right. And
distracted basically. And Zaina is just like,
nothing's going on in her mind. Like she's not
even doing that, which sometimes what she does,
if it's something she's interested in, she, her
eyes get really big and she looks at me and she's
like, did you hear that? Did you hear that? And
I look at her like, don't. don't do it right
no she it was not even on her radar she was like
I have no time for that that those shenanigans
over there I'm just like as you're talking I'm
thinking about you sending articles and then
the fog machine goes off oh my god we have to
buy a fog machine that's what we're I'm gonna
go on Amazon and look up a fog machine yeah but
it's like that's the type of stuff You want,
and you know what? It's fun, right? Like, because
it's all in your mindset. Like at home, I drop
things and they fall down the stairs, right?
Well, Zayden, bless his heart, he would pick
up anything under the sun. He would pick up a
spoon. He would pick up a dime. Like he would
pick up anything, right? Well, when he died,
well. Now I drop something, go, none of my dogs
will pick anything else up. Right. So they look
at me like there's no dumbbell. Screw you. Right.
So I'm at, so we're at this thing and I guess
in the Mondial, they have to do a retrieve, but
they never know what the out just going to be.
And it could be a toy. It could be something
super weird. It could be. literally literally
anything under the sun right so they're like
oh let's see if i'm like she's not gonna pick
anything up well of course she made a liar out
of me right and i'm like and i'm thinking about
it and i'm like if she's picking up all this
random stuff and i'm so delighted i'm like she
did it and everyone's like wow and then she she
goes to get this squeaky toy i'm like 300 she's
gonna squeak she doesn't squeak i'm like wow
and everyone's like so happy and i'm like that's
the attitude people need to have like that's
how we are when we proof our dogs right like
all of us like if any of our dogs does like masters
the challenge immediately all of us go Wow. And
the dog's like, hey, not just my mom, but everybody
thinks I'm amazing right now. And they absolutely
pick up on that, like 300%. And Zaina was just
like, ha ha ha ha. Like, pick up the spoon, pick
this up, pick that. And her little face when
she came in to me, she's looking at me like,
I did it. Yeah. So proud of herself. And I know
a big part of it is because everybody at the
seminar was like, wow. Like everybody was like,
she did it. Oh, she didn't squeak. Oh. And they,
they love that. The dogs really like that. Well,
just to people just get too freaking serious
when they're training their dogs. Yeah, they
absolutely do. For sure. It's supposed to be
fun. Like if you're not having fun, then why
the heck are you doing it? And why are you spending
so much fucking money on it? That's what I always
say. I know we say that all the time. Yeah, it's
just supposed to be fun. Right. And so. Yeah.
So they had a blast and we had a blast. I, it
was, and I, it was the same for me. Like I was
so excited for weeks and weeks. I'm like, I can't
wait to go because it was something that was
with the dogs, but there was absolute, it was
something different and something where it was
just for fun. Right. There was like no training,
no pressure, no nothing at all. Like. just you
know if they did it they did it if they didn't
do it they didn't do it like whatever if they
did the food thing and she would have eaten the
food she would have eaten the food like whatever
you know or if she didn't pick up the object
she wouldn't have picked up the object whatever
you know um so i think that's important for handlers
as well as the dogs right to um to have that
break. Like just do something like, yeah, fun.
Try something or whatever. Um, just something
different and just learn about that sport. And
I'm not going to lie. I'm like super tempted,
but Jesus, there's like only so many hours in
the day because of course they sucked me in.
Why? Cause they're like, Oh, Zaina could get
her obedience. Mondial one, like right now she
could do all the exercises. I'm like, And then
and then one of them's like, oh, you know, there's
one in Warwick, New York at the end of the May.
And I'm like, oh, I didn't even know they were
telling you that. Oh, yes. They're like, she
could do it right now. I'm like, because apparently
like the food thing they did was really hard.
The position they did was hard. Her healing,
you know, she's not going to look around. Then
the go out, their go out is different. Oh, yeah.
So she's so I just demoed it. And then she goes.
they don't sit them they just call them back
so i tried it she did it yeah um she's like she
could do it right now i'm like no there's like
yeah she could and then one of the others you
know there's one in warwick new york at the end
of the month and then i'm like really why not
You should totally do it. Yeah, I have to see.
Well, because you know what? Because I have to
register her, which is not a big deal. But then
I guess she needs like a CGC or something like
that, which I don't have. OK, well, that would
take 2 .2 seconds. I know. I just have to find
a place to do whatever. So we'll see. Maybe we'll
do it when you come here in May. Maybe I'll do
it. Oh, because you do the. Oh, because you can
do it. Yeah. I'll have to look it up, but anyway,
it's just, it was just really funny. Um, and
it was fun. And so like a lot of just good little,
um, takeaways and, you know, um, Again, with
Mondio, with doing it with different dog snacks,
what breed is Snacks again? I love that dog.
He's so cute. He's just a little, well, she says
he's a little mix, but he's like a little working
line cocker. That's what he looks like a little
bit. And he's doing that. Is that her primary
sport right now? No, she dabbles in AKC, Mondio,
and agility. So she just kind of pings around.
But she's doing stuff with that little dog. Yeah.
And and so that's super, super fun. And so, yeah,
like and they're definitely like, you know what
else I liked about them? Like what can you what
are their names and can you like spell it? Because
we keep saying them, them. Yeah, it's Annalise
Johnson. It's A -N -N -E -L -I -E -S -E Johnson.
And her husband, Kellen, is the D -Y. Yep. K
-E -L -L -E -N. Yep. Kellen. Like, they were
not, they were totally into the other breeds.
Totally. They were fantastic. Like, they're totally
fine with snacks. You can see they really enjoy
working with him. Yep. I mean, who couldn't with
a dog named Snacks, but. I know. And he's a little
pistol. Oh, my God. I love him. You know, so
they're totally fine with working with other
breeds. I felt like they were getting a complete
kick out of watching because Mary's lab, Watson,
he got into the bite work. She's like, I want
to build his confidence, build his confidence.
He was like, game on. He was like, finally. um
and they you could tell they were getting they
got a kick out of it oh totally they weren't
like oh god you know we you know we were used
to um mouths and shepherds and whatever and no
they were like Yeah, I mean, and that's the thing,
like, there's, you know, they're, not only, like,
they do, they welcome all breeds, all temperaments,
all everything. But, yeah, and you'll see, like,
there are, like, I know, I know Kate has sold
a couple of her dogs to people who are doing
Mondio. Like, they got dogs from her just for
that because they love their labs and that. Those
field dogs, some of those, those breedings, they
bring it. The genetics are there to build it
for sure. Like, look at your dogs, you know?
Yeah. I'm just too afraid to do bite, like real
bite work, bite work because of just, you know,
from doing rehab for so many years, I rehabbed
so many dogs that competed. holy hand and and
you know and even dogs that where I had clients
that religiously conditioned their dogs and brought
them in for maintenance and the dogs would still
get hurt yeah you know um Because when they're
doing full on bite work, like running and then
hitting the sleeve, it's so hard on their body.
And you rely, you're really, your dog's entire
wellbeing is placed in the hands of the decoy.
That's what the person's called that wears the
suit, right? Because there's such an art to it.
And we did talk about that too. Cause when he
demoed it with her dog, like you see how athletic
they, they have to be unbelievable. incredibly
athletic yeah they have to be quick and it's
all in how they present their body yeah to make
the bite safe and how they it's called catch
the dog so as soon as the dog hits the sleeve
you don't want to be a brick wall right you need
to like move in a certain way to absorb and lessen
the impact on the dog's body and it's like it's
on it's an art form really like and If they do
it incorrectly, your dog could literally have
pretty catastrophic injuries. Yeah, for sure.
And so you're really relying on, especially at
a trial, like if you train, you could say, okay,
I'm only going to train with certain people because
I trust them. But at a trial, you know, you have
to kind of put your... dog in that person's hands
and for me just for me personally that's too
scary it's like if I had I think if I had not
done rehab I probably would be doing it right
yeah yeah but um I'm too scared yeah Well, and
that's what makes it nice with Mondio because
you can do the obedience track and not have to
do the great work track. And then you just need
to find somebody with a sleeve and you can just
let them bite them a little bit. And just let
them bite the sleeve a little bit. Because they
liked it. They liked the bitey stuff. They really
liked it. Yeah. And again, it's not aggression.
Right. You know, it's just fun. She was looking,
she was watching and saying like, see, she actually,
they were super happy. I think it was his last
leg bite. He actually didn't growl and he was
really calm. He was biting, but he was very like
calm about it. And she's like, see, that's what
we like. So they're really looking for, you know,
they're not looking to get the dog. aggressive.
And it's like you said, they're watching their
emotional state. And yeah, so it's kind of cool
to see that in a different, you know, looking
at things that you and I look at in detail all
the time and see people doing that in a completely
different sport and in a sport that from the
outside could be very misunderstood. Right. And
interpreted as just something that involves.
aggression and biting yep absolutely yeah yeah
so it was super fun super fun weekend yeah um
i told laurie that after the noc we should have
them again just so our dogs could have another
like fun day we definitely should so fun well
what would be nice is to do it try to coordinate
something like on a field where they can really
bring some of the stuff. Yeah. Some of those
distractions. You have to like heal the dogs
over like enormous logs and stuff. Like there's
like really cool stuff. Like we didn't even touch
on any of that. Like they brought a couple of
things, props, but some of the stuff, like the
healing stuff, the component of healing where
they have to heal, how they have to heal, what
they have to heal through is so cool. So we could
do that. I'll touch base with her. Cause see
if we can set something up. Yeah. Because that
would be fun just to be like, throw those challenges
at us. And then we can do their sendaways are
so cool. Like, yeah, we should totally do that.
Cause there are four and like, yeah, that will
be just a fun thing for our dogs to do. And it's
fun for us. Like you said, and when we're having
fun, the dogs are feel that and they have fun.
Right. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. So that
will be a fun thing to do. So, hey, if you have
a chance to go do something like that, go do
it. You know, have an open mind. Just have fun.
Do something different and up your proofing game,
people and all your sports. It's fun. Like, it's
just fun, you know. So, yeah. And then we'll
have to have a proofing episode because, God,
I love proofing. I'm like obsessed with it. And
now I'm having people do it with their puppies,
like, from day one. And the puppies are doing
amazing. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thanks for indulging
our talking about our recreational sidekick things.
All right. Thanks for listening, everybody. Bye.
Bye.