Prospect Palooza: MLB Pipeline's Jonathan Mayo talks future Phillies

00:00:04
Speaker 1: Hi, This is Kyles forber and welcome to the Philly Show.

00:00:08
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, rubin tomorrow Junior, Jim Salisbury, Todd Zoleki. Brought to you by the Foul Territory Network. Hope everybody is doing well. It's Friday, January tenth, twenty twenty five. Guys, I hope you're doing well. It is it's a time of year where.

00:00:25
Speaker 1: It's freezing cold outside.

00:00:27
Speaker 2: And I don't know about you, guys, but once I get past the holidays, the weather's miserable. It's cloudy, it's cold, it's sleeting, it's snowing, and I start thinking about Florida.

00:00:36
Speaker 1: I really start.

00:00:38
Speaker 2: Thinking about the baseball season starting, and I often think about that walk we often make from Bake Care Ballpark and clear Water over to the Carpenter Complex. You know that the little short walk, and then you see some big leaguers over there, but you see a lot of minor leaguers over there getting to get in an early start on the season. And we were thinking about minor leaguers. And when we think about when I think about minor leaguers and prosper I think about none other than MLB pipelines. Jonathan Mayo. Jonathan, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us today.

00:01:08
Speaker 1: How are you, sir?

00:01:09
Speaker 3: Much better after that introduction? Man, I have to have you follow me around.

00:01:14
Speaker 1: Well, Jonathan.

00:01:14
Speaker 2: For those that for the Phillies fans that don't know, Jonathan is part of been with MLB dot Com, MLB Pipeline forever.

00:01:20
Speaker 1: How long Jonathan?

00:01:22
Speaker 4: Twenty five plus years?

00:01:23
Speaker 1: My friend, there we go, so that is a long time. So Jonathan, we don't want to age. Jonathan is one.

00:01:31
Speaker 2: Of the guys on the MLB Pipeline crew that puts together the top one hundred prospects list. He puts together the Phillies Top thirty prospects list. He is the guy on MLB Network the first night of the draft talking about his board and you know, guys that get taken, guys that don't get taken, what's going on with the draft. He's the guy in Day two with Jim Kallis who the Phillies will take Gabriel rinconas junior in the fourth round. And he'll immediately go, here's what I got on this guy.

00:01:59
Speaker 1: He knows it all. So we're excited to have you on.

00:02:02
Speaker 4: John.

00:02:02
Speaker 1: That's my little pumpy up.

00:02:03
Speaker 4: I appreciate your Yeah, it's been nice talking to you. See you.

00:02:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, out of here.

00:02:11
Speaker 3: Now it's you know as now I'm actually we are in list making mode. We're working on top one hundred and I'll get cracking on the top thirty.

00:02:20
Speaker 4: But obviously lining.

00:02:22
Speaker 3: Up the guys, the Phillies, guys who belong on our top ten position list, which start coming out next week, so.

00:02:30
Speaker 4: Right we're in it.

00:02:31
Speaker 2: So that's always cool because that gets a lot of people talking about, you know, prospects in Phillies prospect the top ten at each position. So I know you, how do you do all this work? Let's let's start with that. How many people are you talking to to put together the top one hundred list, the top thirty Phillies list, the top ten list of players at every position.

00:02:51
Speaker 3: So the top one hundred we're working on right now kind of helps us determine how the top ten by position lists go, So we do it according to that. Not every position's got ten guys in the in the top one hundred, so we have to add from there. But we're putting together the top hundred now, and myself and Jim Callison, our third musketeer, Sam Diistra kind of put together our own. We usually do like one hundred and twenty names, one hundred and twenty five names. To make sure we're being thorough, we'll combine them and average them out, we'll tweak them a little bit, and then we send it out to you know, sources we have with all thirty organizations, pro scouting directors, people who have a kind of thirty thousand foot view of all minor league prospects. Feedback, and if there's a lot of feedback that we should move a guy up, or move a guy down, or we need to add this guy or take this guy off, well we'll listen to that to try to give the closest sort of thorough snap shot there can be.

00:03:46
Speaker 4: For the top one hundred.

00:03:47
Speaker 3: Now for the for a top thirty, it's you know, we split all the teams up. We each have ten, and I'll talk to the farm director maybe one other person in turn only uh and then run it by the other two guys, but also get some feedback from opposing scouting directors to see what they think, uh, you know about the Phillies top thirty. Because you don't want it just to be an internal list, right, just because there's always going to be a familiarity bias if you're only talking to guys within your system. Even if they are you know, the sources within that system are are pretty objective. Yeah, because they spend so much time just with those guys, they may not necessarily have the context as well. How does Aiden Miller compare to other infielders and other systems, And so we try to get that perspective as well.

00:04:39
Speaker 5: And just to be just for to be clear, you you said you guys have ten teams apiece, you and Sam and Jim. Yeah, you are the You are the Phillies guy at MLB Pipe Pipeline.

00:04:52
Speaker 4: Otherwise why would I be on this podcast.

00:04:55
Speaker 5: I just want to make yes, I do the Phillies.

00:04:58
Speaker 4: I do.

00:04:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, I do the Phillies Top thirty.

00:05:01
Speaker 4: It's funny.

00:05:02
Speaker 3: We used to sort of trade every once in a while, but we haven't done that in quite some time. And the Phillies are not one that I would want to give up anytime soon. So I probably will be the Phillies guy for the foreseeable future.

00:05:15
Speaker 5: Well, follow up question, why don't you want to give the Phillies? Why do you have an affinity for the Phillies left.

00:05:21
Speaker 1: So.

00:05:23
Speaker 4: You know, I pick.

00:05:24
Speaker 3: It's sort of like when people ask me who my favorite players are, and it's always guys who talk well. Like you guys know that, like I could be the best player in the world, but you can't string a sentence together. It doesn't do us a whole lot of good. So I like guys who can talk. Conversely, I tend to like the systems where there are the people to talk to within the system. And you know, one of the things that I always liked about Preston Maddingly, because he has a scouting background, he always was able to kind of have a little bit more of an objective approach and an understanding of what we are trying to accom h And I will say that it was a sad day when he when he got bumped up, even though he even though he still likes to talk prospects. But you know, early going talking to Luke Merton has been really good for me also, and they just really understand the system and sort of what we do. This process of doing our top thirty is not typical. It's not talking to a scrum of reporters and that sort of thing. So it's just a little bit of a different animal and they and they seem to get it.

00:06:32
Speaker 6: And yeah, I was always it's great to have you on, Jonathan, And I was always curious as a GM, you know, how you were calling some of this information and who you were speaking with as far as the organization is concerned.

00:06:44
Speaker 7: And I didn't really necessarily.

00:06:45
Speaker 6: Have a problem with that as a GM, with others speaking to people in our organization. My question to you was, how do you try to you know, work through you know, some organizations like the pump up the prospects to the point where it's it's a little more ridiculous side.

00:07:05
Speaker 1: So I was kind of.

00:07:06
Speaker 6: Curious, how do you sort of sift through that because you're trying to get as much information as you can. I would assume that you're also talking to some pro.

00:07:13
Speaker 4: Scouts out there.

00:07:14
Speaker 6: Yeah, uh, and not just you know folks who are assistant GMS or player person you know, player development guys. I would assume that you're also having those discussions with multiple pro scouts that you have an attachment.

00:07:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's where the that's where the external feedback comes from. Ruben like, So, when I have the phillies listed in a decent order, you know, after talking to people within the Phillies, I will send it out to a few pro scouting directors from other teams, because it's their job to know what every other system has, right they have reports.

00:07:48
Speaker 4: On all of them.

00:07:50
Speaker 3: I could go to individual pro scouts, but you know, they may only have the Southern League, you know, or they may only have you know, if you're lucky. Some teams will do it where they have one team and spring training and you can sort of lean on that guy. But and you try to find those people, but the pro scouting directors again have that sort of overview of all the other twenty nine systems. So I will send the Phillies list to three or four of them, and hopefully I get you know, to two feedbacks back, say, and that that helps me offset the tendency to you know, either whether it's over hyping or just sometimes farm directors are kind of like parents, and they're very protective of their own system. So even if it's not like a mindful or willful pumping their own prospects up too much, which definitely happens, sometimes it's just because that's all you're only with those guys, and you're protective of them, and so you try to offset that familiarity bias a little bit by getting that external feedback.

00:08:49
Speaker 1: That's interesting, go Ja.

00:08:52
Speaker 5: I just I think this stuff is great for the game, and a lot of different outlets have their their top list, but it gets people buzzing. It gets people to talking about the game. People love prospects. I don't know, I do know what it is. It's just the excitement for the future, the new blood. Todd and I know this. When we write a story about a prospect, you know, on our respective websites, the traffic is through the roof. People love to read that stuff. And it's just it's really funny how it has evolved into almost an industry within an industry covering prospects.

00:09:28
Speaker 1: Because there was a.

00:09:29
Speaker 5: Time, John, when when I first started covering baseball, that MLB did not even announce and would not release.

00:09:38
Speaker 4: Its draft lists.

00:09:40
Speaker 5: You had to go stip it around to people, you know, to find out who who, the who the team took so and now, gosh, we know all the prospects well before the draft. It's it's amazing what it's become.

00:09:55
Speaker 4: It's crazy.

00:09:55
Speaker 3: Now I remember there's a you maybe get a list of the players they took, but not what round they were taken in, and no one knew anything about them. You know, amateur baseball has never been you know the same as say college football or college basketball, so there's not the knowledge of the players going.

00:10:09
Speaker 4: That's changed a bit.

00:10:10
Speaker 3: But I remember my first year working for Major League Baseball's website.

00:10:16
Speaker 4: Was in you know, nineteen ninety nine.

00:10:18
Speaker 3: And it was the draft was a conference call, yeah, and that was it, you know, and then eventually we did live video on the website and that led to you know, the doing the draft on TV at MLB Network. So I think it does start back then where fans are so much more knowledgeable because there's so much more information. Uh, you know, for years and years, Baseball America was kind of the only thing that did anything along those lines. And you know, I always like to try to give them credit because you know, Alan Simpson was really the one who's sort of was the pioneer in terms of coverage, and now it's grown exponentially where you you can find out everything about every player from the moment they are playing, you know, at a high level in high school and college even if you want to dig that deep. But certainly once they they get trapped in and enter a pro system.

00:11:17
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:11:17
Speaker 6: You mentioned Baseball America, Jonathan, and the thing that you know as a player when I was playing, I mean you you pick up the Baseball America and it was like two weeks ago or were these stats like.

00:11:28
Speaker 7: Hey man, I'm hitting like three fifty now and I'm not.

00:11:31
Speaker 4: You know two ten threw Ben you never hit three fifty. Come on, yes I did. I'm just giving it in the small leagues, I did.

00:11:39
Speaker 8: But but I but I will say that just to give you a little bit more love that the thing that you guys have done is really.

00:11:48
Speaker 7: Helped promote the gate And that's that's.

00:11:50
Speaker 6: The coolest thing about what you and Jim and Sam have done so so well is you're promoting baseball and you may baseball important and and it's uh, I think it's a I think it's a really helpful and really cool thing.

00:12:07
Speaker 4: Did you guys do well?

00:12:08
Speaker 3: I appreciate that, and you know, we enjoy what we're doing. And you know, for me, you know, the list and the rankings aside as as Jim and Todd are like.

00:12:17
Speaker 4: We'd love to tell stories.

00:12:19
Speaker 3: And one of the things that I love about what I do is often I'm the first person providing the story to fans. So when I get to dig in and like really get to know some of these projects beyond what their hit tool or how hard they throw is like I love doing that and that goes beyond the list. But the rankings also, you know, as much as there's so much more information, like I I relish the fact that I am often or we you know at MLB Pipeline are the first to introduce names to two people.

00:12:53
Speaker 2: Jonathan, what's the story right now that you would tell about the Phillies farm system from maybe where it was five years ago to to where it is today.

00:13:01
Speaker 3: Well, the problem with that question, Todd is I can't remember last Tuesday, forget five years ago.

00:13:05
Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, I don't you know.

00:13:07
Speaker 3: Jim and I are constantly teasing each other as we get older, like my institutional memory is just awful. So I will focus on the now, and I think, you know the now is that I like the Philly system. It's it's interesting. One of the things it's always a test for any of the top thirties that we do, is that when you're writing up the guys who are like twenty one to thirty and you're like, huh, that guy's kind of interesting. That's a good sign of depth in the system. It's not a be all end all, certainly not scientific, but none of this is you know, I think at the very the very top, there's some good sort of top heaviness with some elite level guys well I know, we're going to talk about some of them now, but especially with Andrew Painter, you know, healthy again. And then there's you know, some younger guys who are starting to make steps forward. And that's one thing you don't really know, but the for the last like years, so there's all there's been a steady stream of really young either high school guys taking the draft or the work that the Phillies have done internationally where you don't know, you know, until they make full season ball ers start moving up the ladder what they're going to be and you don't really know, obviously until they get to Philadelphia. But there's been a steady stream of guys that I'm like, Wow, this guy's got some interesting traits that let's see what happens when they get to the United States or to clear Water or to Redding, you know, you know, or whatever it is, each benchmark and not all of them end up becoming what they could, which is that's th roout baseball. But I think what the Phillies have been doing is that recently more of those guys are taking those steps forward.

00:14:52
Speaker 2: You saw Andrew Painter pitch a few times, I think in the Arizona fallag You every one of the few reporters that were in the Arizona Fall League got to talk to me few times. That's the guy we get asked about constantly, constantly, when's he coming up? What do you think where? How can you fit in the rotation? What were your impressions of what you saw from him in the Arizona Fall League.

00:15:12
Speaker 3: Outside of one start where his fastball command was if he he was the best pitching prospect I've seen in a long time. He was as good as he was before he was hurt, maybe even better because all that time off and all the working out and arm care and adding a pitch. Like the guy he shouldn't be allowed to add a pitch. I mean, it's just it's kind of ridiculous, like, oh, by the way, here's a better slider, okay, And it was really really good and The thing that was amazing is that when his fastball command wasn't great, he had three other pitches to go to. And you know, the first time I saw him, he didn't throw. I think he threw one change up and it wasn't very good. But as he told me, he didn't face any left handers, right, and that's where he's largely gonna use that. And then the next time he saw him, he faced a lot of left handers and he threw like eight plus change ups. He's ready, you know, like I would understand if the Phillies want to pump the brakes a little bit just because of workload reasons, because he hasn't thrown. But my goodness, you know he there are only a small handful of pitching prospects that I would put in the same category. Jackson, Joe, you know, of the of the Tigers is right there. And then of course whenever Roki Sasaki joins us, he's right there. But Andrew Painter is very much right there. The only thing that's missing is is a little bit of track record, because we haven't seen him do it in a regular season over the course of a of a whole year, and by the time he does that, he'll graduated off the prospect list.

00:16:55
Speaker 4: I would imagine, right.

00:16:58
Speaker 5: WO can't wait to I mean, the town is really buzzing about him. I remember the how they buzzed about the town buzzed about Cole Hamil's and it's it's that, it's that feel. If I could ask you about another number one pitching, uh pitcher they took a few years ago, Mick Abel, where do you? You know what's going on with him? He has not progressed as the organization would have hoped, but he's still a young man. What do you what are your reports on him?

00:17:29
Speaker 3: I haven't talked to anybody for like for the new stuff for this year yet. I think the thing that has been the most surprising with mick Abel is that has been the command and that's the thing that's held them back. You know, the stuff still sounds pretty good the reports. I was again last year. He's still throwing hard, he's still got a good breaking ball, he's got feel for the change up. He just can't throw strikes, and I I don't know what happened if he's just tried to throw too hard. But when I saw I saw him in a high school and I thought, you know, he and Painter to me, were very similar amateur prospects, and I thought that mckabel was gonna come in and had that really exciting combination of premium stuff with an ability to find the strike zone. And that just never happened, and kind of right out of the gate he was struggling. I'm like, all right, well, his first year, he's trying to do too much and he just hasn't He hasn't gotten there. And I don't know at what point you decide, do we shorten him up and put him in a bullpen and see what happens. You don't want to You don't want to give up on, you know, a guy with three above average plus pitches, you know, and the change up is a change is an average pitch. You don't want to give up on that. And as he pointed out, he's he'll be twenty three for almost.

00:18:55
Speaker 4: All of this season.

00:18:57
Speaker 3: So I don't I'd send him out as a starter one more time, But you know, the clock. I think the clock is ticking on this, and I mean it's the one sort of thing that we don't know about, and I don't think this would impact somebody for this long is he's from that COVID draft and he didn't throw in twenty twenty in high school. I don't know if that impacted him at all. I have no idea of knowing that, And you know, we'd have to sort of take a deeper dive into that class and see how that how that's impacted. But he was a first round of the summer before uh, you know, and that he was drafted because of a summer showcase where he had the premium stuff. He had ceiling and projection and he threw strikes. So like this has been a kind of a surprising disappointment for me.

00:19:47
Speaker 4: Interesting. I'm obviously curious about it.

00:19:50
Speaker 6: I mean, everybody's talked about the Aiden Millers of the world and uh and uh and some others in Kaba has now been has now been moved. I'm just kind of curious about some of the some of the under radar. I'm gonna ask some more pitching questions to kid Jeane Cabrera. I don't know if you know him all that well, but I'm sort of curious as to whether.

00:20:15
Speaker 4: What you think of him.

00:20:16
Speaker 6: He's he's not a real physical guy, but it sounds like he's got really good arm.

00:20:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, he does.

00:20:22
Speaker 3: He's uh, he's number twelve on our top thirty. Thanks for reading, and he yeah. I think the big thing for him is that he he You want him to add strength. Now, we've all seen, you know, the outliers of guys who you know, and stay sort of thin and slight and and can continue to do it.

00:20:48
Speaker 4: On a regular basis.

00:20:50
Speaker 3: But for him to be a starter long term, he's got to add some strength.

00:20:58
Speaker 4: But the stuff is there.

00:21:00
Speaker 3: You know, he's got a mid nineties sinker, he's got a four seamer that's up to ninety seven ninety eight, he's got a change up that probably will be plus eventually. And then he's got a big sweeper that can can really freeze hitters at times. And you know, he's done a pretty good job of throwing strikes. So it's a good combination of those things. You know, he made the move up to double A. It wasn't as pretty, but pitching and redding is hard, and it was his first taste of that. So let's see what he does when he when he gets back there. But there's a lot of ceiling there now. I think we've all seen those pitching prospects who like every year is like, oh, they need or even hit hitters, they need to add strength, they need to add strength, and they never do or they can't. And then eventually that's when maybe you see either he breaks down or they decide to move him to the bullpen. But he kind of jumped really hard on the radar this year. I made a name for himself because he was so good in Jersey City to earn that promotion up to double A.

00:22:06
Speaker 5: So if we're on pitching, John, let me just interject Moys's chasse. They picked him up in that trade with Baltimore, if I'm recalling. I think the MLB pipeline has him in the twenties yep. And I talk to other people who like him a lot more than that. What is your read on on Moys's chasse.

00:22:30
Speaker 3: Well, keep in mind that when we when we when I kind of threw him in, you know, and then we we we do a re quick re ranking in mid we call it mid season, but it's really August, you post post trade deadline. It's not as thorough of a process. So when I dig into the top thirties year, you might see him, you know, moving up in Jim feel free to take credit for that if you like, you can say say I told them that people like them better. So but you know, he's again not the biggest guy in the world, but unlike Cabrera, he's really strong and he's super athletic, so that gives him a better chance to start in my book, if he can throw more strikes.

00:23:18
Speaker 4: The stuff is plenty good.

00:23:19
Speaker 3: You know, the fastball, it's not a plus fastball, but it's got right up in the zone. It's got a low approach angle, so it's tougher to hit than it should be based on the low nineties velocity. He's got a good sweeper. The change up is coming, he just needs to start throwing it more. So there's some very interesting pieces there. And again, you know, we end up saying this a lot with guys like this, just because of his build and the command. But you know, if you shorten a guy like him up and he's only throwing an inning or two, then you're gonna see more velocity and he could become a really exciting, high leverage reliever late in games. And if that's your worst case scenario, then that's a pretty good get.

00:23:59
Speaker 5: Yeah, take that, You take that absolutely not Gregor Todd.

00:24:03
Speaker 2: It was Gregory soa they got Seth john Seth Johnson, Seth.

00:24:08
Speaker 1: Johnson, Gregor, Yeah, yeah, Suth.

00:24:11
Speaker 2: Johnson was came back in that deal, so that they got a couple of decent pitching prospects.

00:24:16
Speaker 1: You know, they Seth Seth.

00:24:17
Speaker 2: Made his debut in September, struggled in that one start, But I know that they're hoping that those guys can provide some depth moving forward for sure.

00:24:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:24:25
Speaker 2: And then you know, Ruben, you mentioned Aden Miller. I mean, this guy's top one hundred. We've heard people say best Phillies position player.

00:24:34
Speaker 1: Prospects since Chase Utley. What do you think about that?

00:24:38
Speaker 4: John?

00:24:38
Speaker 6: Then?

00:24:40
Speaker 3: Wow, Well, so I don't. I wasn't doing prospecting stuff or I don't remember what that was we're saying about Chase Utley as a prospect, So I don't. I'm not sure.

00:24:56
Speaker 4: That.

00:24:56
Speaker 3: You know, it's hard when you're talking about a guy had the career he had. It's hard not to think of that when you're doing so. But people cannot rave enough about Aidan Miller. And the fact of the matter is that if Aidan Miller doesn't break his handmate his senior year of high school. There is no way he's a Philadelphia Philly. Wow, he should have gone higher given what he did on the summer showcase circuit. Actually a little surprised that no one took him sooner, But kudos for the Phillies for not hesitating when he dropped in their lap because he was one of He's one of the better power hitting high school prospects I've seen in quite some time because he could get to the power. You know, there are guys you see, you have ridiculous raw power, and they put on shows in batting practice. Reuben you' probably seen when you've gone to see players and you see a guy who're like, oh my goodness, this is what they look like. And then in a game they have no idea what they're doing. And but Aiden Miller's got an approach. You know, he sees pitches, he's got good plate discipline. He's gonna hit as well as hip for power. So I think that's what makes him exciting. I think the one thing that's been a little surprising is that he's still been playing shortstop. I still think he ends up at third base when all said and done, but he might be a go glove third basement. I mean, he's he's not it's he's athletic, and I think that's why you leave him at short to help work on the athleticism for as long as possible.

00:26:34
Speaker 4: And I think that.

00:26:35
Speaker 3: If we were still in the in the game with the massive defensive shifting, maybe even stays there for longer and you see him in the big leagues. Now, we've all seen guys make it to the big leagues a short stopped. I'm like, I never thought that was gonna happen, you know. I think people were waiting for Corey Seger to get shifted off to short forever and look at him. So yeah, I don't want to say you never say never, But he played a lot of third base on the summer showcase circuit in high school. He looked very very good there, and obviously the offense profiles perfectly at the hot corner.

00:27:05
Speaker 7: So do you see him as a Bregman type of a comp as far as the ability to hit and the combination of that and the power, or do you see him as an even more powerful type of a I mean, because Bregman sort of worked into.

00:27:19
Speaker 6: His power obviously playing in Houston and with the short portion and such.

00:27:23
Speaker 4: I think.

00:27:26
Speaker 3: I understand the I understand that that comp and I think that he aiden is more power over hit now than than than Bregman as a prospect. You know, when Alex was coming up, you're like, oh, yeah, there's there's there's pot. You saw the quick hands, the bat speed. You knew there's gonna be some power there. But he's turned more into that over time where I think, you know, coming up, I thought Bregman was going to be kind of a two eighty three hundred hit or maybe maybe twenty homer kind of guy, you know, if it works out, and I probably thought he'd end up at second base, not that you know, but and so I think that Miller's power potential now is much higher than what we thought Regman's was at the time.

00:28:14
Speaker 5: Interesting, that's really interesting to hear you say if he didn't break his handmate, he's not there for the Phillies.

00:28:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, now he's a top I think he's a top ten to fifteen.

00:28:26
Speaker 4: Pick it.

00:28:28
Speaker 5: It reminds me of gosh, it's been almost a generate. It's a generation to go now. But there's no way the Phillies get Cole Hamil's if he doesn't break his arm. It's like a junior or a sophomore in high school, and he's kind of slow coming back. But hey, if that's what you get, you know, in terms of impact, it's going to be a great thing. And hats off of the Phillies for having the courage to take a chance on Cole Hammil's their scouting staff and their medical people, and and ditto on Aiden Miller, because it seems like people almost as excited about Aden Miller as they are Andrew Painter.

00:29:05
Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:29:05
Speaker 3: Sure, you know, especially I think because I mean, no one's seen Painter for so long.

00:29:12
Speaker 4: Wait, people are going to get excited about him.

00:29:13
Speaker 3: But also, you know, as you pointed out like that, there there hasn't been like a high, high profile Philly's hitting prospect to make it. And I think the idea that Miller could be that guy, you know, that's exciting because he's a guy. You know, you're talking to a guy who's gona play one hundred and fifty games, you know, and has a chance to be an impact middle of the order kind of bat. As good as Andrew Painter might be, he's still only going to pitch every five days.

00:29:45
Speaker 5: And it sounds like Miller could almost go anywhere on the diamond, because I was speaking with someone from USA Baseball and they said, you know, they played him in corner outfield as a as a young player and he was dynamite.

00:29:59
Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe it. I said.

00:30:01
Speaker 3: It's you know, sometimes you have a guy who plays shortstop in high school or even college, You're like, there's no way he can play.

00:30:06
Speaker 4: Short because he's just he's stiff. He's not athletic.

00:30:09
Speaker 3: Aden Miller is pretty athletic, I mean, and that's why he's played short for as long as he has. But he's also like Jim. Not only does that show like his athleticism, it also shows a willingness. You know, he's got a really good head on his shoulders, and he's not the kind of guys have no I'm a shortstop or you know, no, I have to stay on the dirt, you know. I think if if say he's in you know, double A or triple A and there's a need in left field, he's going to take reps in left field when they ask him to, because he understands that's going to get him to the big leaes and there's not gonna be any complaining. He's gonna become the best left fielder he can can be. You know, I don't think he comes with that kind of ego that can be a stumbling block for a lot of young players with that kind of talent.

00:30:55
Speaker 5: Wow, that's a great scouting report.

00:30:58
Speaker 4: It's good stuff.

00:30:59
Speaker 6: That sounds very much like Chase Suttley when he sort of bounced him around a third base. You know, the same sort of thing Chase said, You know, put me where you were. You need to put me so I can be in the big leagues and contribute.

00:31:09
Speaker 4: Line up.

00:31:09
Speaker 3: Line up is where I want to be, right, it doesn't matter, right, I mean, I think if you asked Adan Miller to catch, he probably would consider it.

00:31:16
Speaker 4: That would be a bad idea, by the way.

00:31:18
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, it's funny you should say that because there aren't that many guys who I shouldn't say there aren't that many guys.

00:31:25
Speaker 7: But that's not like the driving force of a lot of guys. Hey, this this is my position.

00:31:30
Speaker 4: I don't want to go out on my comfort zone. And so you love that about a player. Yeah, absolutely.

00:31:36
Speaker 1: You mentioned you mentioned catching Jonathan this year. This is J T. Rail Muto's last year of his contract. He'll be a free agent after the season.

00:31:42
Speaker 2: A couple of years ago, they traded Logan Ohoppy to the Angels for Brandon.

00:31:46
Speaker 1: Marsh and so they might need to replace JT after the season. What do you think of some of the Phillies catching.

00:31:53
Speaker 2: Prospects, you know, starting with Edward otayit you know, Caleb Bricketts is in your top thirty.

00:31:59
Speaker 1: You know what jumps out. I know the Phillies are super high on Tay.

00:32:02
Speaker 2: You know, Dave Dombrowski has mentioned several times, even a couple of years ago, we were getting calls in this guy. I know you don't know about him, but we've been getting calls in this kid, Tay, this catcher down in the you know, in the lower levels. And now he's I think he's fourth, fourth on your list.

00:32:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I would say, like, oh, he could move up, but I'm looking at the top three.

00:32:26
Speaker 4: He will not.

00:32:29
Speaker 3: But don't be surprised. We haven't figured it out. If he's not on our top one hundred, he probably will be soon. That said, he's not gonna be ready in a year, so they're gonna have to find a stop gap. But he's he's kind of who I was thinking of, you know, when we were talking earlier about these younger guys who you want to see what they do once they get here. And you know, he hit really well in the Dominican Summer League, but like everybody hits well, Todd I think would hit two seventy in the Dominican Summer League.

00:33:06
Speaker 4: I felt I needed to spread it around. I was making fun of Ruben too much. But you know, so then he comes to.

00:33:14
Speaker 3: The States and he absolutely rakes in the Complex League and gets himself promoted to clear Water where he holds his own as a seventeen year old. You know, he turned eighteen at the very end of the summer, so you know he's exciting.

00:33:35
Speaker 4: Now.

00:33:37
Speaker 3: It may take some time, you know, but he's got the chance to be able to do everything. You know, stick it behind the plate, hit, he's got a good approach. There's power there. I mean, he has a chance to be a very good Big league regular catcher. But he's pretty far away. And because of the the responsibilities of catching, sometimes it can take those guys little bit it longer to get there. So you don't want to just sort of say, oh, let's let's rush him up.

00:34:05
Speaker 5: The ladder.

00:34:06
Speaker 3: I listen, you see what the Padres did with with Ethan Sallis, who was super advanced because he was already bilingual and things like that. And I think they did him a disservice by by moving him that quickly. So now he's got a good head on his shoulders. I actually think Ethan Sallas is gonna be just fine, but it may it's taking him a little bit longer. And he was, you know, so advanced in terms of his mindset. So and I don't I don't know Edward to tight like, I don't know what makes them tick and things like that. But by and large, the younger catchers it can can take a little bit longer because they're there's so much to learn on both sides of the ball.

00:34:47
Speaker 5: John, let's shift a leap a little bit of gear here, so center field for the Phillies, I guess maybe with a brief exception here here and there has been kind of a revolving door for many years. Can Justin Crawford be the guy that you know, nails it down for a long time?

00:35:10
Speaker 3: I think so, you know, I know people will talk about the ground ball rate and things like that. I think that he has shown improvement in his ability to impact the baseball in each of the last two seasons, particularly last year.

00:35:27
Speaker 4: Listen, I don't think he's ever going to be a power guy, you know.

00:35:32
Speaker 3: And it's funny if this were the nineteen eighties, no one would say a thing, right, he'd be that sort of prototype, typical guy. I think as long as he continues to refine his approach and see pitches and be that on base, top of the order catalyst, then yes, and he's gotten stronger. I actually got a chance to sit down with him this fall, right before he went to play for Team USA, and like he understands those criticisms. To his credit, he didn't get all bulked up and try to lift and separate every time up and sell out for power because that would get him too the big leagues.

00:36:08
Speaker 4: He's he's kind of been who he is and that's that's his ticket.

00:36:13
Speaker 3: You know, you can't teach speed, and you know, and he knows how to use it, and I think he will continue to add strength to where you're not gonna worry about him, you know, just rolling weak round balls all the time and you have lower levels of the miners.

00:36:29
Speaker 4: The issue is that you can hit.

00:36:30
Speaker 3: A groundball and out outrun the infielders a lot at the time when you have that kind of speed, and that's not going to work long term in the big leagues. So as long as he manages his swing and miss, you know, he'll be like a better version of Billy Hamilton with I think the ability to drive the ball more. He's physical, right if you have you guys talked to him up close, it's not like he's he's five to eight, you know, or he's spin like there's some strength for there for him to tap into and not for him to tap into, like I said, to try to hit the ball over the fence, you know, but so he doesn't get the bat knocked out of his hands by big league pitchers. And I think he's going to be able to do that, and I think it's not going to take that much longer. Like I think twenty twenty five could be a year where it really clicks for him and you could see him in September if.

00:37:20
Speaker 4: There's a need and the defense is stellar, yes, yeah, and he you know, and it's going to continue to get better.

00:37:27
Speaker 2: You know.

00:37:27
Speaker 3: He has the ability to outrun mistakes he makes and reads and routes, and that's continued to improve.

00:37:33
Speaker 4: So, like, I think that he's going to be just fine.

00:37:37
Speaker 7: So this is going to be a strange question.

00:37:39
Speaker 6: Do you see and I don't know, you know, the whole picture where the phillies are. Do you see at the beginning of his career possible platoon situation? Is this guy handled left handers? Well, he's a left handed hitter, Rojas is a right n hitor. Is there a possibility that there's a platoon type situation, especially early in his career or do you think this guy is in every day you know, every day guy handling you know, left handers.

00:38:04
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean I think if you want to ease them in that way, I suppose you could do that. You know, you don't bring a first rounder up to the big leagues to have him be granted on the long side of a platoon. He's hit lefties, okay, at least this last year. I didn't know the splits off the top of my head. But uh, you know, he had an eight to fifteen ops against righty's and a seven thirty four ops against lefties. It's not great, but it's not awful. But he also had sixty one played appearances against left handers. That some of that that's hard.

00:38:41
Speaker 6: You know, we'll get significantly more at the big leagues nowadays.

00:38:43
Speaker 3: Right, right, No, And that's you know, that's always been the case. But we've seen over years and years and years of guys who like they have they have a reputation that they can't hit lefties until they're given a chance to hit lefties regularly, and then they're okay, They're probably always going to be a split.

00:38:57
Speaker 4: I guess you could.

00:38:58
Speaker 6: Do that, but back in the day that was something that you sort of introduced.

00:39:04
Speaker 7: The guy in did that a little bit with Utlely, but then he obviously became Utly right.

00:39:10
Speaker 3: I think depending on like if the you know, let's say he comes up things really clicking the miners and they want to bring up at some point in the second half of this season.

00:39:20
Speaker 4: That's a pretty quick timetable.

00:39:22
Speaker 3: But let's say, you know that that might make a lot of sense, especially because everyone expects the Phillies to contend and then sort of kind of take the handcuffs off and let him play, you know, every day. Uh, you know, I think he's going to hit lefties more than well enough to do it long term, but if you want to ease him in that way, that's fine.

00:39:42
Speaker 4: You know.

00:39:42
Speaker 3: The The problem is that sometimes it's a self fulfilling prophecy where you don't let a guy hit lefties, and then suddenly he's a guy who can't hit lefties, and like.

00:39:50
Speaker 4: Well, how do you know?

00:39:50
Speaker 6: No, I understand, Yeah, yeah, makes sense, no doubt.

00:39:54
Speaker 1: I Jonathan I one last one for me.

00:39:56
Speaker 2: We had pressed him mandingly on in late October, and then Luke Martin on in November after he got promoted. We asked each of them, is there an unsung guy or a guy that we don't talk about a lot that that really gets you excited? And Preston mentioned Gabriel Conis Junior, and I think Luke Merton mentioned Auto Kemp And I'm just not.

00:40:14
Speaker 1: Necessarily to talk about either of those guys.

00:40:16
Speaker 2: But do you have a guy that maybe under the radar guy I guess on your top on the top.

00:40:21
Speaker 1: Thirty list that like, I'm kind of interested this season to see what this guy does?

00:40:27
Speaker 2: Maybe you know below you know, the heavy hitters that we talk about a lot, Is there anybody on that list you're kind of curious about?

00:40:33
Speaker 1: Maybe more so than others.

00:40:36
Speaker 4: I mean, it's funny because I just saw Auto Kemp in the Fall League.

00:40:40
Speaker 2: Yes, that's yeah, you did, And I remember you shot me at a text thing.

00:40:44
Speaker 1: This guy can hit.

00:40:45
Speaker 3: This guy can hit well, and he reminds me, and he reminds me of it shows you my institutional memory. The guy who was incredible in the fall of the year before they traded to Milwaukee.

00:40:57
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that yes, I know exactly.

00:41:00
Speaker 4: Come on, Oliver, Oliver Dune.

00:41:06
Speaker 3: And and when I talked to Auto Kemp, he even said, like, seeing what done did in the Fall League made him think, well, why can't I do it? It's kind of similar profiles. Uh, just in terms of you, He's probably gonna move around a little bit. Auto is probably a little more physical. I don't think he's an everyday guy. But if you told me that he's the kind of guy that you have moving around and gets four hundred played appearances on a championship caliber team, I believe that he was a little bit older, So he's not like, oh, he's he's really exciting. You know what I would like to see. I would like to see Christian McGowan stay healthy. Interesting, just because I'm trying to again. Obviously I'll use my own familiarity buys because I saw him pitch really well in the Fall League, and and he's a guy whose name has come up a lot like I because of the injuries. I keep wanting to kind of shove him off the list or way down the and then it's like, well, you know people ask about him, or you know another team's mentioned him. The stuff is good. So I'd like to see him put together like a full healthy year. Now he's gonna turn twenty five, I need to pick a younger guy to be really excited about.

00:42:19
Speaker 8: Right, But no, I mean that works, that doesn't know, because because he may impact if he's an older guy and he's yes, well, I mean David, I wasn't afraid to bring that guy.

00:42:30
Speaker 4: Right.

00:42:30
Speaker 3: I might put him in the bullpen, right, I would put him in the bullpen. At this point, they were keeping him stretched out because he needed reps. The one guy I will the other guy I'll bring up because he was you know, Jim Colson and I break up the draft, you know, sort of split the country in half. And Griffin Burkholder was from my as we called neck of the draft, and he is He's really interesting and obviously the Phillies thoughts are too to go over slot to sign him. But he's super athletic. Uh, he kind of fits the the mold. He's strong and athletic, there's some raw power.

00:43:03
Speaker 4: He can really really run. You know.

00:43:06
Speaker 3: I think that if for whatever reason, Justin Crawford needs to move over to left field in a few years, Griffenberg Holder might be your center fielder.

00:43:15
Speaker 4: We'll give him.

00:43:16
Speaker 5: I was going to ask you about him because they call him a late bloomer, very athletic. He was going to go to West Virginia. And how do you so he was the second round pick. Norri was the first round pick. How do you compare contrast those guys and what do you see in terms of those two guys ceiling?

00:43:34
Speaker 4: I mean they both have really high ceilings. Norri. You know, if you you.

00:43:40
Speaker 3: Guys talk to any scouts like in the area, if you ever like dig into him, they love Dante Norri like it's I've never seen and he's from Jim's part of the country. But people will talk about Dante Noriy without being asked, just because of the makeup, how hard he works, feel for the game.

00:44:02
Speaker 4: All those things.

00:44:03
Speaker 3: The thing that sort of made him a surprising first round pick is his age. You know, and he's one though he's twenty. Listen, that's a soapbox gym and I get on all the time in terms of the age thing. Now, with the teams having models guys like that, there were a number of teams that wouldn't consider him at all, let alone in the first round. And I remember years ago when Brett Batty was coming out and everyone was talking about, oh, he's nineteen, And I get it, especially when the guy, you know, Nori is playing in a part of the country where the high school competition isn't great. You know, we played in the summer Showcase circuit. You saw what it looked like there. You have to evaluate how he does things regardless of the of the competition, which is tough. But you know, with a guy like Brett Baty or even a guy like Dante Nori, they're they're like, oh, we can't take him. But in two years when he's a draft eligible sophomore, boy, that's an incredible fun Now you have two years of college data. I get, I understand the reasoning, but I'm like, sometimes you're missing out. I'm really really good players if you think he's good. So you know, I think the cases, you know, with the Phillies, they really like Norri, you know, And at that part of the draft it was it's always a crapshoot, but it wasn't that people screaming to be taken right there. And I think maybe they had a sense that he wasn't going to be around for their second round pick, so they said, you know, we're going to take the guy that we really like and we really believe in the makeup and the tools, and we'll see what happens. But you won't find a guy that scouts aren't. You know who scouts root for more than Dante Nori.

00:45:38
Speaker 5: So John, obviously you're a storyteller at heart. You get to know these kids, you're right about these kids. You ever build a relationship with a kid, and then you know, six months later he texts you and says, Hey, why am I so low on the list?

00:45:56
Speaker 3: So it's been known to it's been known to happen. I have some DMS I can show you at another time that I won't share right now. The thing that's crazy. Every once in a while people will jokingly and I'll tell like a couple of sort of fun stories that I know players won't mind me telling because it's more about certain tools.

00:46:17
Speaker 4: So one is Brett Phillips.

00:46:20
Speaker 3: And everyone knows Brett Phillips' personality and he did this all with the biggest heart that you can imagine. But I think we had posted a highlight of him making some just absolutely ridiculous throw from right field. He was still a prospect, and he kind of was like, tweeted, that's not an eighty arm.

00:46:37
Speaker 4: I don't know what is. So we kind of like we talked it over and.

00:46:40
Speaker 3: We're like, you know what, Brett Phillips, you're right, and we changed it to an eighty arm and we haven't had very arms. And then the other the other sort of joking thing I had was when Julio Rodriguez was coming up and he worked really hard. Now this is funny, this is contradicting why I said that you can't teach speed, but you can improve your speed, and that guy I worked tirelessly on his athleticism and his speed. Like I think people thought he was going to be a sort of a power hitting right fielder, and he got faster and faster, and I remember telling him it was in the Futures Game, and I told him that if he stole a base in the Futures Game, I changed his speed grade.

00:47:19
Speaker 4: To a sixty. It was the Futures Game.

00:47:22
Speaker 3: Maybe it was the False Stars Game, one of those kind of things. And the funny thing is is they stole third, but overslid third and got tagged out, and I told him it didn't count.

00:47:33
Speaker 4: But I mean, he was very good natured about it.

00:47:35
Speaker 3: The thing that every once in a while, you get a player, even a guy who's like made it to the big leagues who and a lot of these guys, you know, they used the chip on that shoulder to motivate them, and so they feel that they got slighted with how they were ranked or how things were graded out.

00:47:53
Speaker 4: And every once in.

00:47:54
Speaker 3: A while, I've like I've gotten a big leaguer to have complained, either publicly or on DM we like, what are you doing right? I can't believe you ranked me there? And and I'm like, did You've been in the big leagues for six years? Who cares? I'm wrong? All the time, we are often like and we met it it's part.

00:48:13
Speaker 4: Of what we do.

00:48:13
Speaker 3: But like it's it's it's fascinating to me that people care, like, maybe use a different chip on your shoulder, like with that much big league success or a big league track record, you know someone else must have slighted you other than how Jonathan Mayo rated you on your on your team list.

00:48:32
Speaker 1: It's holding onto it, holding onto it forever and.

00:48:35
Speaker 4: Whatever works for them. I don't lose sleep over.

00:48:37
Speaker 1: It, exactly right, nor should you. Man, Jonathan, Hey, thanks so much for coming on the show. This is great.

00:48:43
Speaker 2: I mean, I know fans are excited for the spring and they're excited for to see how these prospects develop, and we'll see a lot of them at the Spring Breakout game coming back in March for those fans that don't know spring Breakout. Uh. Every organization takes their top prospects, puts them on a team together, some for a lot of these guys first time ever playing with one of the other guys in the system, and then they go play another team's.

00:49:05
Speaker 1: Top top prospects.

00:49:06
Speaker 2: Last year it was the Phillies went to Lakeland played the Tiger's top prospects.

00:49:10
Speaker 1: I didn't know what to expect John that.

00:49:11
Speaker 2: I really thought it was a lot of fun and it was fun to hear the players like Aiden Miller say I got to.

00:49:16
Speaker 1: Play with Justin Crawford.

00:49:17
Speaker 2: Today, or you know Abel saying it was cool to play with Aiden Miller, Like I heard about this dude and I've seen him at the complex, but to actually be you know, look behind him and see Aiden Miller behind me playing shortstop was pretty sick. You know, Justin Crawford, same thing, all those guys. So I'm looking forward to seeing that again. I think fans that that went to the game's got a lot of a lot a big kick out of it. And I know you guys put a lot of work into you know, getting it together and putting together the rosters and helping put together the rosters or you know whatever, and it's a lot of fun.

00:49:47
Speaker 3: So well, yeah, no, we enjoy it and we're hoping to continue to you know, be kind of similar.

00:49:52
Speaker 4: To last year's feel.

00:49:53
Speaker 3: But we get a lot of feedback that even people within baseball would love to see it be.

00:49:58
Speaker 4: Some kind of I wouldn't.

00:50:00
Speaker 3: The timing of it is tough, but like an nd season tournament or a lead into the Fall League, you know, like wayte so you can have now it's the end of the year, so you know, you run in the same problem in terms of using pitchers, but like I think that there are ways to build it out even more hopefully, So it's not just that like one off because I was at last year.

00:50:21
Speaker 4: I was at.

00:50:22
Speaker 3: The Paul Skins versus Jackson Holiday game, which was the yes kind of the whole reason, and the buzz in that place was incredible and it was amazing, and it was over really fast.

00:50:34
Speaker 4: Schemes through one thing and was.

00:50:35
Speaker 3: Ticked because he wanted to He threw like eight pitches and he wanted to throw like he wanted to go a second. You've seen him compete in the National League now, so you see where it comes from. And we all wanted to see him throw a second but they had, you know, they had a plan worked out.

00:50:48
Speaker 4: And it is it is what it is.

00:50:50
Speaker 3: But I wouldn't have minded seeing a little bit more of that kind of thing. And and if you have a little bit of a tournament, then maybe maybe you get a chance to expand the looks at these guys to national audience.

00:51:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it was really cool.

00:51:02
Speaker 2: And again I think a spring breakout, I think of warm weather in Florida, so We're all excited. So Jonathan, thanks again for coming on man. We appreciate it and we will be back next week.

00:51:13
Speaker 5: Thank you, jon.

00:51:15
Speaker 2: The Philly Show is brought to you by the Foul Territory Network. Subscribe to The Philly Show on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. If you like us, give us a review, Follow us on Instagram, TikTok x, Facebook, and threads. Find Rubens analysis before, during, and after Phillies games on NBC Sports Philadelphia, on the Sports Radio ninety four, WIP Morning Show, and MLB Network. Find Jim at all phl y dot com. Find me at MLB dot com, the Phillies Beat newsletter, and MLB Network