#494 - Matt Stell on His Origin Story + Playing Against LeBron James in High School + Wanting to Have a Niche Career in Country Music

00:00:06
Speaker 1: I thought we had written a good song that day, but I had no idea it was like gonna be a life changing hit song. And so my publishing company were putting out an EP and they're like, we should put these songs. And my publisher were like, man, you should put Pray for You on there too.

00:00:20
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, Episode four ninety four with Matt Stell. We still can't play clips of songs.

00:00:29
Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't it weird?

00:00:30
Speaker 4: We do a music podcast. We can't play any music.

00:00:32
Speaker 2: You can sing them, I know, And I thought for a while that's probably like the best thing to do, but then I would get DMS go and stop singing them.

00:00:39
Speaker 4: But then I'm like, well then how do you as people don't even know?

00:00:41
Speaker 3: Do we start getting them to sing them?

00:00:44
Speaker 4: But why can we do that?

00:00:45
Speaker 1: Though?

00:00:46
Speaker 4: Like, why can we do that? We can't have them play a guitar.

00:00:48
Speaker 3: I guess because that performance is not copywritten.

00:00:51
Speaker 4: Them singing acapella.

00:00:52
Speaker 2: I don't know. I thought you were a lawyer, Hey, will you do that as a bit? Will you get a law degree?

00:00:57
Speaker 3: Okay, give me like six years.

00:01:00
Speaker 2: He has number ones like Prayed for You.

00:01:03
Speaker 4: I no, I've been di s event no, uh, I've been hold on. I know the song that's not Prayed for You.

00:01:09
Speaker 2: No, I know that's the other one that's ever So this is everywhere but on number one Savannah Long Beach, not bites on Dick of Me. I've been everywhere but all that's everywhere but on Yeah Ddie melody me pray for you, single old dick because you can live on. And I prayed for you. Oh you're that's not it. That's not right. It's kind of right, but you're not right. Like you got to do it again. I was a single dick.

00:01:37
Speaker 4: Now we're there. Now you're going too Fastler, you Gotler, I have a single.

00:01:43
Speaker 2: Damn that's I pray. Oh my god, that's it. It isn't for only one of us, but that works, right, Mike. Yeah, thanks Daddie for coming in as a collab there.

00:01:54
Speaker 1: Uh.

00:01:55
Speaker 2: Breaking in Boots is another one that we talked about. Went I think top twenty at least. His last album, called Born Lonely, came out last summer. Ten songs all written by Matt working on music.

00:02:06
Speaker 1: Now.

00:02:06
Speaker 2: This is a really great interview. I've known Matt for a while, we're close. I did not know a lot of the stuff. An interview like this allows me to go places that I probably wouldn't go for just hanging out or watching a game.

00:02:16
Speaker 3: I think it's also a y'all's relationship too. I've never heard an artist talk about some of these things.

00:02:22
Speaker 2: You make it sound like we we don't want people know we dated. Yeah, that's what he made it like, you.

00:02:26
Speaker 3: Know, relationships very intimate.

00:02:29
Speaker 2: Matt moved to Nashville in twenty fourteen, self taughp vocalist and guitar player. I don't want to say too much, but I think people will be surprised at the versions of him that all exist. But I think he you kind of see him differently. I didn't know all the Texas country stuff, no idea, no, I had no idea that was his path and what he was doing it was red dirt and I didn't even know that. So, you know, he like had a ton of real jobs to college in between, like songwriting and school. He went on a big medical mission trip to Haiti, was blown away by work being done there, and then he what we did not talk about because I think he gets annoyed, not annoyed. I think people go to it immediately, like if they only get a few minutes with them. But we talked about you'll hear at college and graduate school. But then he went and was accepted into the Harvard pre Med program, so it's even more what we talk about here.

00:03:28
Speaker 4: That was me. That's all I talk about. And he's like, I would just wearing like a Harvard sweatshirt even though I didn't go there.

00:03:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, you are the Harvard sweatshirt. So he played basketball college, so domb he did it all. Okay, he's only one of eight new artists to have back to back number ones and like the past six years, so less than ten people have been able to do that. Matt Stell dot Com, at Matt Stell on Instagram, at matt Stelle Music on TikTok here he is Matt Stell Matthew Stell, So there you go. Is Matthew your real first name? It is birth certificate. That's how it reads, because mine is not Robert. It's not It's just Bobby, literally Bobby. That's great, which is weird because most Bobby's are a nickname for Robert.

00:04:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true. I call you Robert Bones sometimes when I'm being funny to the gambling group but I guess I won't do that anymore.

00:04:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, no way, even think it's funny though. What's funny about that?

00:04:24
Speaker 1: Well, we're all laughing behind your back in a separate text threads.

00:04:28
Speaker 5: My favorite when people call Bobby Bob. It's like no one ever calls Bobby Bob Bob bone.

00:04:34
Speaker 2: Is Is it weird to you that our last names are literally only one letter apart though my real last name, because that's that Sometimes it's weird to see your name.

00:04:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's the weirdest is when Caitlyn posts something and her name is you know, Caitlyn's as Steale, but the E looks like it could be part of her first name. And my sister in law's name is Caitlyn Stelle. It's spelled differently, thank god, but yeah, it looks like she could be my Kim.

00:04:57
Speaker 2: Folks, let's keep it, you know, pretty pretty loose. Here Israel Palestine.

00:05:04
Speaker 1: Yeah now.

00:05:07
Speaker 2: That let's do all the origin story stuff first. And I'm sure you've told a hundred times, but I think it's good for people to kind of hear where you came from. You have a pretty interesting path. What'd you want to be when you grew up?

00:05:22
Speaker 1: I would be lying if I said I knew anything what I wanted to do.

00:05:25
Speaker 2: You're one of those kids?

00:05:26
Speaker 1: Did I did?

00:05:26
Speaker 2: That's most kids.

00:05:27
Speaker 1: I had no idea. I mean I had to go to grad school because I didn't know. I mean, I graduated college, you know, and looked around and you know, at that time, you know, my dad was a was a dairy farmer and then and then a contractor. But then that time when I was graduating college is when the Faetteville Shale, like natural gas hit Arkansas, and you know, my dad's little you know, crew with three people counting me in the summers, turned into like sixty or seventy people at its biggest point. So it was like, I mean, if I'm looking back, if I wasn't doing this, I would have probably been in hole and gas.

00:06:01
Speaker 2: But if you're twelve, what they call you mat or Matthew? At twelve, Matt, Matt, what do you want to be when you grow up?

00:06:09
Speaker 1: I would have said? A ball player?

00:06:10
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, no, were you a good ballplayer at twelve? Had you already grown?

00:06:15
Speaker 1: No? I mean I was, I was all right player, but I wasn't. I hadn't grown. I mean I didn't grow until really my sophomore year in high school.

00:06:23
Speaker 2: Where'd you go to high school?

00:06:24
Speaker 1: Nemo Vista High School, Center Ridge, Arkansas.

00:06:28
Speaker 2: How many kids in your graduating class?

00:06:30
Speaker 1: Twenty seven? Yeah, Class A.

00:06:33
Speaker 2: When you said ball was it? We were Class A too. No one's ever, no one ever's Class A. They switched it to class double A later because they moved everybody up. Did you guys get the move up?

00:06:42
Speaker 1: Well, it went from B to A when we got the move up, got.

00:06:44
Speaker 2: It so we went from A. We had forty two in my class and we were a massive mountain Pine class. It was the biggest class in ages, right, But we went from single A to double A. I didn't know there was a B, and for.

00:06:55
Speaker 1: A long time there was like Class B. Yeah, I mean Center was still in the smallest classification. We didn't have football.

00:07:03
Speaker 2: That was my next question. We barely had football. And in the past few years we went from eleven man to eight man because we didn't have enough kids. It's like the last ten years we just now went back to eleven man. But when I played, we had probably thirty kids on the whole team. Wow, which is tough because it's eleven and perfect world A different eleven on the other side, but that ain't help. But everybody had to play every position. How many kids you having the basketball team?

00:07:34
Speaker 1: I mean twelve to fifteen, you know, but between the three grades, you know that would have been a senior boys basketball.

00:07:42
Speaker 2: What was the big school that was close Marleton and you never thought of it? You couldn't move schools then, right or No?

00:07:48
Speaker 1: I mean I could have. My mom was a superintendent at Greenbrier, so I mean I could have. But my mom my dad both went to NEMO. My grandmother went to NEMO. Both my grandmother's taught at NEMO, So I don't know, it felt like that's where I needed to be. Looking back, I would have probably like, I'm glad that I things worked out the way they did. That was cool, But looking back into the opportunities that you have, being in a bigger school district probably would have done me some good for when I, you know, went on to the next level or even went to college.

00:08:19
Speaker 2: I felt the same way, like I was like going to a small school until I got older, and I wish I would have been smart enough to take advantage like I got invited to go to the math and science school, like to move and go live there.

00:08:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, Hot Spring. One of my best friends did that from our high school, and I.

00:08:35
Speaker 2: Just I was like, I want to stay state. I think maybe it's a little scared to go live there.

00:08:39
Speaker 1: The world seems so big when you're from a place as small as we are. And that's the thing. It's like, you know, one thing you and I have in common is kind of coming from that and then seeing the world and kind of embracing, you know, how different things are. But I wasn't always that way. I mean, the world was scared to me, like, you know, a three DA school was like saying, you know, would I even make the team, or like, you know, could I even you know, graduate high school? The world was just so big.

00:09:05
Speaker 2: I was scared to move to Hot Springs, yeah, which is twenty thousand people, which is now a small town, a small city, we'll say. But I was like, man, I don't want to move move to Hot Springs live in it. And my family wasn't. They weren't not supportive. They didn't know to be supportive. They didn't think there's a difference, you know, my mom and her issues step dad later, but so no one was like you should do this. It's good for you because nobody knew the difference because limited options in a small town. But yeah, I got invited to go live in the math of Science school. And looking back, just to your point, I was like, Man, if I don't went to a bigger school, there's a lot more opportunity because you can learn more about maybe what you love and what you're good at. Even with sports is we didn't have We had football and basketball late, we'd have we had a baseball team later, but we didn't have our own fields. We had to go to another school and play and that was our home field. God, they made so much fun of us because we had to use their field as the home field squatters big time. And then we didn't have anything else, Like we had a track. We didn't have a track, actual track. We had a track team that our coach made us run track, but we had to train on dirt around our football field. I'm just assuming that's very similar to your school.

00:10:14
Speaker 1: I helped the middle school principal paint the finish line on the lines that they drew on the asphalt parking lot to be the track. And this would have been like my senior year, and it was like in no way.

00:10:28
Speaker 2: Like the track, so you guys could train, yeah, I mean not having meets there.

00:10:32
Speaker 1: I mean that probably a high school meets. Now what they did. I mean, yeah, exactly what you're saying.

00:10:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be like cross country on your track. Yeah, I mean that's what it was for us. It was just dirt. You graduated high school, Yes.

00:10:44
Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to graduate high school. And I spent a lot of my childhood too in Florida as well, So.

00:10:51
Speaker 2: I don't know about that.

00:10:52
Speaker 1: What do you mean, Well, well, my mom and my dad split up, my mom got remarried and moved to We moved to just south of Tampa, Bradenton, Florida, which is quite the culture shock. So I did. I spent like kindergarten through eighth grade for the most part. It had a couple of semesters in Arkansas. But I spent you know, a lot of my like young childhood growing up, and then moved back to Arkansas in eighth grade and did that. I was a nemo from eighth grade on. But so I did have a like my mom, you know, I'm sure we'll get into that, but she because the world, you know, that thing we were just talking about she was very She pushed me to like outside of my comfort zone and stuff like that. And so but yeah, that's why I have, you know, have an affinity for the beach and the water and stuff like that because I grew up up there.

00:11:33
Speaker 2: Was there pressure that your mom is a superintendent or even a teacher, to be good at school.

00:11:39
Speaker 1: I mean it was for me, it was more like pressure to not be a knucklehead, you know, like the conducts was the was the issue.

00:11:47
Speaker 2: What happened to your dad?

00:11:49
Speaker 1: My dad? My dad?

00:11:50
Speaker 2: I don't know your dad. They're not together. Is he still alive?

00:11:53
Speaker 1: No, he passed away in eighteen. He had a he had a big heart attack in eighteen. But I mean I live, Yeah, I mean we were we were close. I lived at my dad's house when I was in Arkansas for a lot of it.

00:12:02
Speaker 2: So was he unhealthy?

00:12:03
Speaker 1: Yeah? Really? Yeah, man, my my dad was You know, anybody that anybody from where I'm from, you know, probably knows my dad, but or knew my dad. But great dude. Went went to Nemo Wanna State championship there, play ball at played basketball at Hendrix and CBC and College in Conway. And but I mean It's just that lifestyle thing of where we're from. It's like, you know, you work, and you work hard, and when you come home, the last thing you want to do is like get your heart rate to eighty five percent on a treadmill for whatever, you know, and you know you want to drink about you know, twenty four for him, Miller lites a day and you know.

00:12:43
Speaker 2: You come home and you don't want to have to think about what you just did all day, And how do you not think about it? It's and I think that's part of the reason opioids are rocking our areas, right. It's like it's cheaper, Yeah, and if things kind of suck, why would you not?

00:12:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you could see the definite line. I mean with my old man, you know, it wouldn't ever a real, real big issue. Tell his business started getting real busy, and then that that stress and then probably with a you know kind of I would guess an addicted personality. You would say, between that and dipping two kansaskull to day. I mean, it kind of ate him up, dude.

00:13:18
Speaker 2: I see, it's funny to hear you talking about this. So your dad's ball player, was he tall? I'm assuming. Yeah, okay, you have an addictive personality too. It's it's I do yes, god dang like genetically, we're both versions of what we come from, right, And you know, talked at linked about my story. But dude, you loved gamble. I do enjoy what, dude, it's like and it probably doesn't even matter what. It could probably be golf, it could probably be whatever it is. When you're in it seems to be like you are on that obsessed line.

00:13:58
Speaker 1: That's fair. Yeah, anything that I'm interest and not just like you.

00:14:01
Speaker 2: Know, the cards don't get me started. But I won't tell you all your stuff out there, but I only I see me. That's how I am too, is why I bring this up.

00:14:08
Speaker 3: You.

00:14:08
Speaker 2: That's you.

00:14:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fair, and I think that would probably I think that probably scares my mom a little bit. But on some of those things. But there again, you know, I do like to I do like to gamble and stuff like that, but I don't think like I could if I wanted. I don't think it's that much. Now I'm getting defensive, but I mean, yeah, maybe maybe.

00:14:30
Speaker 2: I'm not saying you need to check yourself in somewhere. I'm just saying I could when you talk about your dad, much like I talked about my mom and my biological dad, who come from a ton of addiction issues. Yeah, I feel it constantly, but I I have awareness. This is the difference of me and them. I think I have the ability to have awareness of it because of an education which they didn't. They didn't have a chance for it. There was no such thing like you had to work all day all the time. There's no mental health, no thing as mental health.

00:14:55
Speaker 1: There's nothing. And that's what the that's what the booze was for, you know, or that's what that was. Yeah, that was mental health or but the you know, and you know, my dad was a was a great guy, but he comes from a different time and place, you know, he was he was like most people's He would remind you most people's grandparents, you know, just because when time, when you're from place as small as we are, and time feels like it stands till and moves slower it does, and and the people are you know what I'm saying like that the update of of that that people get generation wise is it doesn't come and in some ways that's good, but but it was definitely like a not uh we we ain't working out, We ain't breaking the sweat unless it's for a dollar. We ain't you know, talking about anything or at all, you know, about the things that you probably should.

00:15:38
Speaker 2: But he go to your games.

00:15:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and he he uh yeah. I mean me and my dad were close. We uh, you know, he came to games and stuff like that. He wasn't big on me being in music, but.

00:15:51
Speaker 2: How would he be. I mean, honestly, it's how I talk about my parents. That's that's Disneyland.

00:15:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. My mom was though, and and uh, you know, I think but also like I don't you know, I mean, I remember my dad sitting me down. We were just, I don't know, watching a ball game, and we were talking about, you know, he's wanting me to come to work for him, and I did not want to do that because my brother did. And it's just like he wanted me around, but he didn't necessarily you know, like whatever the dynamic there. But you know, I didn't want to do it. And I was you know, I was just playing in any bar that would have me, and I was staying busy, but like you know, I'm playing filling the blank bar and hoping that they'll mute the TV as much less turn them off. And this is like twenty, you know, twenty actually you know, maybe a little older than that, maybe like after after college, maybe grad school. And he was just like, hey man, no kid yourself with this music stuff. And h I remember him telling me that. But it wasn't like, you know, there's been some some things that you know, that had been said to me in my life that had hit me like a just a punch in the in the chest and hurt. That didn't no more bother me than anything. I just went, oh, you don't get it. And I never stopped me one time. Had Mom told me that, you know, coming from a supportive place, I may have taken a little differently like to heart maybe, but that shit rolled off. I'm sorry, it rolled off like a water off a ducks back. It didn't bother me. And it was coming from a place of you're gonna let an opportunity in this oil and gas thing pass you by. You know, this is you could do this, you could whatever, be in charge, you could make a good living. You're throwing this away. And my thinking was that this is not enough money or opportunity, and it was I shouldn't say that way my twenties and doing what I was doing and staying busy with a guitar on my hand and making my own way, that was a big part of it. Felt like it was more a better use of my time. And luckily maybe I was right.

00:17:49
Speaker 2: But TVD whenever jury's out, whenever I because I was the first kid to graduate high school, much less go to college than graduate college from my family or like that second ring, just nobody did it. So when I went, I remember my mom being like, what are you going to study? Like what do you I don't even think she knew major unless it was some TV. And I was like, I'm gonna study like radio TV. She was like, be a doctor. She was like, that's why would you do that? Why would you waste time doing something none of us have ever done? And you're gonna go and throw it away?

00:18:27
Speaker 1: And obviously you were good at math and science, you know.

00:18:30
Speaker 2: So and now as were you though like you had You're not don't do the thing. You're not a smart guy, you know. I get so annoyedbyut it down.

00:18:38
Speaker 1: I am, but I'm not like no, I was never Yeah, I mean I can get, I get, I do all right, but but like I'm talking specifically in the kind of course work that would get you to where you would go you had you had a proclivity for it.

00:18:53
Speaker 2: My see, he says, I'm dumb, then he used to wear proclivity. I want everybody to know. My point is ability was currency. It was the number one currency for how we grew up. And my mom saw the ability for me to have stability and was so disappointed even that I was not going to pursue that because she didn't have it, her parents didn't have it. And much like your situation or anybody that comes from a small town, if there's the opportunity for stability and you don't grab it, people think you're out of your mind because it's what they've been searching for the whole time, right exactly. And I say that in like, in the most respectful way, and that I remember mom being so disappointed in me for not being a doctor a lawyer, but I had no interest. But also I understood that I was never going to be happy doing anything other than doing what I wanted to do. Even if I failed doing it, then I could always try to go back and do something in that world when you go to college. Where do you go to college?

00:19:55
Speaker 1: I went to Drew.

00:19:55
Speaker 2: Is that close to home?

00:19:57
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but it didn't seem like it. Springfield was there, I mean it was yeah. I mean so it was you know, three and something hours from home, but it felt like a different place. They talked different, they ate different.

00:20:10
Speaker 2: That's if you want to drive home, it's you can get there in a day.

00:20:13
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

00:20:14
Speaker 2: But also you can't just go home, so it's like the perfect Yeah, you're not going to go home and come back the same day, uless, it's an emergency. If you need to, you can. How is that? How was that school?

00:20:23
Speaker 1: Like I did? I did? Man? It was Drey was great to me. You know, I was forcun enough to get to play ball uh there and made some lifetime friends went through. I mean, you know, I got a degree, you know, from from Dury and you know, like honors and blah blah blah. But you know the thing that the things that I learned the most that shape me the most right on up there with my degree and like critical thinking is well, my degree is in philosophy.

00:20:55
Speaker 2: That's a thing. Now I'm now his dad, dude, that's you're an unstable act. Dang, that's great there, go ahead, go ahead.

00:21:08
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but I mean I was just going to say that that college sports was the thing that that I I got a lot out of that and I needed it and I and I didn't like it. I hated it at the time, like.

00:21:21
Speaker 2: You didn't like plaintball.

00:21:22
Speaker 1: No, And I was on some good teams. Man, it was I mean it was every bit of joy and was just kind of like sucked it. I turned it into a job that I didn't want to go to. But then you know, you're getting you school paid for, so it's like but now, looking back, I mean I'm even very tight with my coach from then, and he and I were not tight at the time.

00:21:38
Speaker 2: So so then you got a scholarship, Yeah, from a Class B school.

00:21:43
Speaker 1: Yeah?

00:21:44
Speaker 2: Were you just dominant in freaking high school? Were you just running over those kids?

00:21:47
Speaker 1: My well, my senior my junior year, I mean I was okay. My senior year, I was pretty good average, I don't like thirty or so. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I was good in high I mean I was pretty good ballplayer. But it was a Class A school, you know, in the part of the state. We're at Like, what got me good was in summers going to play AAU and playing against black kids and yeah, you know, athletic and going down forced to be at play up. Yeah, and then going down to you know, going to Conway to the rec center and you know, playing people bigger and older and stronger than me and more athletic.

00:22:23
Speaker 2: Is that where you played Lebron?

00:22:25
Speaker 1: I played Lebron And I actually just joined a team up in Akron, Ohio for a tournament because the guy coach, John Saucier Or was a guy's name. I haven't talked to him forever, and somehow my stepdad, who uh great dude, My stepdad got in touch with him somehow and they had me come up and I played a tournament with an AU tournament up in Akron, and I played against Lebron up there with I played against Lebron with his high school team, like on the team of a couple of his high school teamates. So let's watch the video you my mom taped over that video is a great story. My mom taped over the tape of that.

00:23:03
Speaker 2: Not knowing, not knowing And what is your record over I don't know, Like.

00:23:07
Speaker 1: It's like Gilligan's Island exactly something some some movie because back had written a four dollar movie off of Prime Star. Satellite was like that was like, oh easy, you can't hide money and so and so they put the vhs in they're and taped it over. I don't know if my mom tapes it. Someone tapes it over.

00:23:24
Speaker 6: Anyway, Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor, and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

00:23:39
Speaker 2: Whenever I was in seventh grade, I moved moved up. It's such a lame. At the time, I thought I was cool, and now I think I'm cool, but there was like ten years where it wasn't cool. I moved up and was on the senior high Quiz Bowl team, and so I would go up and I would play against the the smarter kids, just like you would go and play the more athletic, either the older kids or the black athletes, or bigger and faster. I went to a black school, so we would just.

00:24:04
Speaker 1: We had a somebody. We were a little diverse, but not not.

00:24:08
Speaker 2: We were the school that had black kids. So I got to be pretty rough out there where the coaches would be like hey, everywhere we went there, people were racist.

00:24:14
Speaker 1: It was awful.

00:24:15
Speaker 2: I mean it was yeah, man, you know, not quis ball. They were never racist quick ball, right, not to me. But I moved up to play with and quiz ball. It is my lame story. I move up play against eleven twelfth graders and it made me freaking a lot better everywhere I was in seventh grade, eighth grade, crushing twelfth graders.

00:24:32
Speaker 1: It gives you. It gives you a kind of confidence that you can't you earn, a kind of confidence that no one can give to you, no matter how much they want for you. Like either you go, even if you like I would go. I wasn't like dominant on these AAU teams or whatever, but I was playing against people that were good, and I was playing against other good athletes, and you know, you just you get that confidence when you come back. And I'm sure it was that maybe that way for sure.

00:24:55
Speaker 2: After beating eleventh twelfth graders then playing ninth graders again, dude, you guys been knowing, Yeah, I was nobody rocked up my door like I dude, that's it. So you graduate from Drury, you got your degree in philosophy, you're playing music in college.

00:25:12
Speaker 1: The whole time I started in college. Man, I so basketball, you're on a you know, you're there the whole winter break. You don't go home because that's when the season is, so you got a month off the noddle class. So I'm sitting in in my in my like college dorm, my apartment, and we're all playing Tiger Woods on PlayStation and that's fun. But uh, I just picked up a guitar. Mama got me one when I was like twelve, but I never, you know, messed with it on that Christmas morning, like, you know, a little little honer like guitar.

00:25:41
Speaker 2: Why did you get you on?

00:25:41
Speaker 1: Though?

00:25:41
Speaker 2: Did you have an interest when you were twelve or you just see?

00:25:44
Speaker 1: My family's pretty musical. My mom's side, both both sides kind of my mom's side is very musical, like my you know, both of my cousins had record deals and and you know they're musical, you know. My and I I could always, like, you know, sing, I guess I never thought that I could, you know. I was like, oh, everybody sings to the radio, whatever, everybody loves music. I knew every song on the radio, every song. But I just thought that's what the radio was for. I thought that's what people did.

00:26:14
Speaker 2: Like you had a natural ability to memorize.

00:26:16
Speaker 1: I could hear it. I mean I could hear a song a time or two and just kind of know it, Like I don't you know music it's its own Could you know that with buck stuff? I mean if they rhymed and no, I'm kidding.

00:26:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, can rock green eggs?

00:26:31
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I don't know. I just I love music. But I love music the way that people love biscuits, Like I just thought everybody loved them. Like I was like, oh, yeah, this is this is the best. I love it. And I found out in college like no, I really have a passion for this. And then I picked up a guitar and I could kind of do it, and I just kept doing it. And I as soon as I could rub four chords together, I mean I was learning in my dormer in front of you tube, you know, or coord you know, the tab websites. And as soon as I could mashed four chords together and kind of understood how things went together, I started writing songs. And that's what I wanted to do. I mean, even to this day, you know, to me, in my head, I'm a songwriter. That that's also an artist, you know, not the other way around.

00:27:13
Speaker 2: Where did you play first in front of people?

00:27:17
Speaker 1: There was a there was a bar venue that opened up in the middle of nowhere, southwest Missouri, in between Springfield and Joplin, Missouri, called the Snorty Horse, and they it was it was it was Texas country, red dirt country music. So all these bands that were coming through, Randy Rogers and Ragweed at the time, and Stoney LaRue and Turnpike at one point, and you know, several other bands would you know when they're coming through play in the Midwest. That was just a stop and they would they would stop and play at this crappy bar. That changed my life. And I met the owner. He came over to my college apartment. I played a couple of songs, like dude, we got to get.

00:27:57
Speaker 2: You there, and he came to your college apartment.

00:27:59
Speaker 1: He was like yeah. It was like a friend of a friend. It was like he's opening this bar and I didn't you know. I was like, okay, cool, what is you know?

00:28:05
Speaker 2: He didn't come to scout either, He just knew somebody and happened to beat there.

00:28:08
Speaker 1: They were like, hey, this guy plays guitar at the dorm and at the at the you know frat houses occasionally like take a guitar over, we check them out, whatever. And so we came over and he was like, oh, dude, we got to get you in here playing and so I played like a writer's round with me and three other guys. And that was the first time. And yeah, a bunch of people from school came and that was cool. They used to send like charter buses out there to get people there and back. It was about a forty minute drive.

00:28:35
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, did you guys have like wet and dry counties where they was up there in Missouri?

00:28:41
Speaker 1: No, they didn't. It was all wet counties.

00:28:43
Speaker 2: But because because we had to go, we like, I partied none but in Arkadelphia, Dry County. So he had to drive forty minutes to get.

00:28:51
Speaker 1: To a bar the Center Ridge where I'm from Conway County. We were the only wet county. Like I'm I'm from the wet county. Like we met Okay in the meet and greet they got I see it was from Geary's Ferry and he was like, he's a worry from the Sinneries. So that's where we buy our beer. All people go to the Chuck Wagon races. Like now, it's wet everything, but back in the day, since Conway County was the only wet county around.

00:29:12
Speaker 2: Is that foreign to you? Wet and Dray counties.

00:29:13
Speaker 5: Yeah, because in Texas everything was wet.

00:29:15
Speaker 2: So if we were to have said wet and dry, would you you just had a context clue that.

00:29:20
Speaker 5: No. I figured it out when I was in high school and I went to see my buddy in North Texas, in East Texas, Tyler, Texas, and that's when I.

00:29:27
Speaker 2: Was introduced to But were they they had to be wet though, right.

00:29:30
Speaker 5: No, they had dry counties there in Texas. They did Northeast Texas, dry counties, South Texas.

00:29:35
Speaker 2: Dude's all wet. You couldn't buy beer on Sundays a lot of growing up.

00:29:38
Speaker 1: Sunday's holiday. You still can't buy beer on Sundays. You can't buy packaged beer in Arkansas.

00:29:43
Speaker 2: I don't buy beer at all, So I don't know. I just remember everybody at my house being upset. You couldn't buy beer on Sunday. So you go Saturday night sometimes before the store closed, and they'd make a run.

00:29:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh they'll go put you know, they'll go put a path off on the on the cooler ridge of shale or whatever. At the at the liquor store were.

00:29:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, that's crazy to think about it.

00:30:00
Speaker 1: You just traveled the South and it's like you cross all these lines, it's like who has the most interesting booze loss? Because it changes town to town.

00:30:09
Speaker 5: I remember in college, so in Huntsville, Texas, all the bars closed it too. But if you drove twenty minutes north, you changed county across the county line and there was a bar.

00:30:20
Speaker 1: One bar.

00:30:21
Speaker 5: It's almost like boots scoot and boogie like that what it sounds like. That stayed open till whenever everyone wanted to leave.

00:30:27
Speaker 1: The Electric Cawboy.

00:30:28
Speaker 2: We opened Lena Rock six am. When I moved to Austin, and I could not believe things closed it too. It was unbelievable because we would go to Electric Cowboy and you know, it was Billy Rays. I was the Nelly. It was one of those places until the sun came up and there were no rules, but we had Sundays you couldn't buy beer. And then we were a dry county going to college and you'd have to drive forty minutes. Like you said, so that's what they did. They bust everybody out. So how many When did you get paid the first time? Did you get paid that night?

00:30:57
Speaker 1: Yeah? I got paid you know something that night, you know for I mean maybe fifty bucks or I don't remember what it was.

00:31:03
Speaker 2: So then you're you finish up a jury. You did continue your education?

00:31:08
Speaker 1: I did? Why? Uh, so that I could keep playing music. Really, if I'm being honest, I thought, for a minute, I wanted to go into academia. I thought I wanted to, you know, be some kind of like I don't know, public intellectual, maybe not be the best way, Maybe I don't know. I wanted to be a thinker. And I thought, Okay, I want to study this stuff I'm interested in. I got my degree is in so my my undergraduate degrees in philosophy and religion. And when I went and got my master's, I was really trying to do like an American Studies program, which is like social critique, kind of like getting that kind of thing. But Arkansas didn't Drew started a program. But then whatever, I ended up at Arkansas and I got my degrees in communication, but I basically have a degree in rhetoric and like power struggles between groups and people.

00:32:04
Speaker 2: So you moved from Springfield to Faetteville, I did, And did you start to do the favevel bars or did you do all of Arkansas? You got like sticky Fingers and.

00:32:15
Speaker 1: I did all that. Yeah, I mean shout out to shout out to stickies into rev room. They always great to me, Susan there is fantastic and uh but yeah, I mean I was playing up in Faetteville, played Georgia's a Bunch and because I was always like I would play cover stuff, but I was always playing original music too, Like I never was just like go up there, tip him to play freebird guy. You know. I occasionally, you know, I would play covers, but it'd be like what I wanted was just like looking back, it's like going to a bar and playing the songs you want to play is like not maybe the best.

00:32:47
Speaker 2: Like it's all b sides from Hollin really moved me.

00:32:51
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm playing songs that a lot of people hadn't heard. It was so niche because it was like the stuff that I liked and I hadn't made the connection of like the difference like the other night when we were talking, like we played those shows in Atlanta and Mobile, and Atlanta was a sit down theater and Mobile was a stand up like fin you yeah, but I mean in a good way. It was like people, people, you.

00:33:12
Speaker 7: Sold out a bar with we We sold out a bar with five eight hundred people there mashed to the front, singing the words to my stuff and yelling the words to your stuff.

00:33:24
Speaker 1: And that's cool and that's fun. But the night before we did the kind of the same thing and a little smaller thing with people. It's like a sit down thing where it's kind of sit down and listen. And really, till you said that the other night, I really kind of hadn't put it in those stark of like terms before. But like I was always someone who wanted people to like listen to what I was saying a little bit more, and that's cool and everything. It's just a different kind of music lately and a different kind of thing, so you know, bridging, you know, those kind of gaps or whatever.

00:33:52
Speaker 2: But yeah, you saved us night too, because night one, I we did two charity shows and so when I we do those type of shows, my team and Matt's team, they didn't. They're not the ones to set them up. We let the charity and the local just go like we have a venue. That way, we're not and we don't take any money, so we're not involved in any money. So they set up the venues and we just show up and play and they give all the money to the hospital.

00:34:19
Speaker 1: Say Jude yes.

00:34:21
Speaker 2: And so with that we kind of don't have a set. You lose a little bit of power and not taking the power. So we show up to I want and it's very much what I would.

00:34:30
Speaker 1: Prefer to be.

00:34:31
Speaker 2: It's a theater ish setting because I'll only do theaters at this point because I need people to hear what I have to say. Cause I'm not good at music. You know, I'm not good at I can't sing. I can sing just good enough so it's not distracting away from the joke. And like, I know that's my superpower and that luckily Eddie can't sing and Eddie canp play. But I know that I can sing just good enough that my bad singing does not distract from the quality of the joke. And if we're not in an environment where I can't tell the joke. Torture Night two was that wasn't a bar? Now always to have a full band. We would play festival to tryp with and that's different because you can hide behind that a little bit. Sure, So it was just lean over to Matt and be like, dude, play play big colors along. I felt it.

00:35:13
Speaker 1: I mean, but it's it's cool like I but also you know, I've done that stuff, so not that y'all haven't done it a lot, but like a barstool of me and a guitar is like, I'm not really, things are gonna be okay, Like we're going to figure that out. And we did. We played a bunch of covers, we played a bunch of original stuff. And but I've always done that And I always wanted to be a songwriter. And all my favorite artists, especially the ones that I was really getting into when I was first of getting started, were all people that were writing a lot of their own songs. You know. Co writing is something I mean I'm talking about that being writing to and and not exclusively, but but a lot of them were doing that, and that's what I wanted to do. That's what I really respected in those in those artists, and looking back and even in that kind of music now that I still you know, have an affinity for like the kind of Americana, you know, Texas red dirt kind of stuff. You know, the thing that stands out is it's not always the best quality, and a lot of it's bad, but the stuff that's good is really good because it's so independent and unique and so you know, it's like you have to deal with things not being as good as Nashville because Nashville, it doesn't matter if the song is like whatever, Nashville, everyone is awesome.

00:36:30
Speaker 2: You know that is in a student observation, mister thinker. I never thought about it like that, and you're right, living in Texas for a long time as well, the red dirt, the tech, whatever you want to assign to it. There's some bad stuff, but the best is awesome.

00:36:46
Speaker 1: The best is awesome because it's original. It's like it's like garage bands. It's but it's like it's like, but it's a barn, not a garage.

00:36:54
Speaker 2: I never thought of it like that, and that that's why a lot of it, the quality seems at times cheaper until it is almost revolutionary that Nashville then wants to steal and shine.

00:37:04
Speaker 1: Up right, And that's the thing with Nashville is like they can't help but to make everything good. And it does sterilize it a little bit sometimes now. But the thing is, though, like when I was that age and starting to play music everything on the radio, I say everything, but a lot of the radio the format was changing and it became you did not hear songs about whiskey and women and heartbreak, and you heard songs about how awesome it was to be a dad.

00:37:33
Speaker 2: Adult is very country, is very adult.

00:37:35
Speaker 1: When we were kids, yes, it was very much like all of these songs about how I love being a dad and husband and how much I love I am with Faith Hill, and like.

00:37:44
Speaker 2: It's about where you're from and what it was like to be an adult, Like those are the two themes.

00:37:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but even still it got away from like the where I'm from stuff. It was anyway. I mean, I said it, but that just did not respond. I didn't get it at all. And I would rather hear songs that were written with a different bucket of cliches about whiskey and the road. That just was cooler to me. But now that I've been in it, I understand, Like when you move to Nashville, I don't care who you are, Like everyone is so good when you get there, and it's intimidating. And a lot of that backlash against Nashville is because a it can be a little sterile because it's all so good, but but it's also because it's it's really hard to be good in Nashville.

00:38:26
Speaker 2: I think, too sterile. And that's the word that I would use initially as well, because it feels like that. But there's so much money invested in it that and the people are so good, and if you're investing a lot of money in something, especially the major labels, it feels sterile because they've got to make sure that there's a quality. And sometimes if you're making sure there's a certain quality, a little bit of the risk isn't there.

00:38:48
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And also you can't have that, you can't have the counterpoint, like you can't have punk music without rock music or pop music have it without it punk music without pop music is doesn't make sense.

00:39:03
Speaker 2: There's no counterculture without culture exactly.

00:39:06
Speaker 1: There's no counterculture without culture, and yeah, it's very hard to try to find that, and it's hard to the good thing about counterculture is even though a lot of it's bad, like just not good, and the stuff that is as special, it's because you can't really manufacture it now.

00:39:20
Speaker 2: And I think that's red dirt, right. I think that's counterculture to the culture of Nashville country music. And the punk thing is so right on too, because man, that's garbage unless it was awesome, unless it makes excunless it was awesome, and then changed pop music and then changed culture because counterculture became so strong.

00:39:37
Speaker 1: And like Zach Bryan's songs are cool because they have an authenticity to them because of how they sound. And I think, you know the newer I'm not here. I'm trying to make a point. Nothing about good or bad in terms of what you like or quality or whatever. But if Zach Brian wrote those songs and took them into a room in Nashville and they and they made the sound awesome, they would be less cool.

00:40:02
Speaker 2: And there'd be more percussion. A lot of standard record label editions would have been added to those songs because they would have felt it was safer because if we only put out a bunch of these ballads without percussion, without all this instrumentation, well it's probably not going to work. We can't invest our money in something that it's probably not going to work because it's a corporation and a bottom line. So what makes it great also makes it not revolutionary.

00:40:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, it really does. Like you lose something by cleaning it up.

00:40:32
Speaker 8: The Bobby Cast will be right back. This is the Bobby Cast.

00:40:46
Speaker 2: So you graduate from University of Arkansas, I get a master's.

00:40:50
Speaker 1: Now what, Well, at that point, you know, I was just trying to keep a calendar busy. I mean, I went to grad school because I just really do of learning stuff. And I'm real good at it if I'm interested in it, like I'm real Maybe that maybe that's an addictive personality trait, but like when I'm in, I'm all in, and like I'm I'm pretty good at that. But when I don't, when I'm not interested, I'm very not good at it. But I got done with my masters, and the whole time I was doing that, I was really grad school. You know, I was a teaching assistant, so you know, I was fortunate enough to get you know, my school whatever largely taken care of with that. And I mean grad classes you're taking like two or three classes a semester, you know, and so the time demands my classes are CHOOSDA, you know, like Monday through Thursday nights, you know typically, and so I've got all weekend to play music, and I can play music during the week you know, on Dixon Street or wherever. And and so a lot of that was just like I wasn't ready. And sometimes they looking back, we all would do stuff different. But you know, sometimes I wish I would have just said, no, man, I'm going to Nashville, I'm gonna make this music thing work, or no, I'm going into Bronfos or Austin or whatever, I'm gonna do this. But for me, I had to feel like I had to feel like, you know, I had I guess a quote unquote backup plan maybe that's the best way to put it, but that I was gaining ground. It's something when I was you know, while I wasn't playing music, you know, where was.

00:42:25
Speaker 2: The fulcrum of I might be good enough at this, or I have the confidence in this to do it for a long time, because at some point that's got to creep in and be the central part of all, Right, this is even though I'm going to graduate, this is the objective is now to do country music and make money.

00:42:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean even after I graduated, I went and work for went back and worked on the popeline for my dad and worked on the farm for my grandma a couple a couple of years there. Because you know, my dad was always good about He never gave me any trouble if I needed to get off, you know, if I need to be off on a Friday to go drive the you know, Manhattan, Kansas for you know, one hundred and fifty bucks or whatever it was.

00:43:11
Speaker 2: But did you think while you were doing that that could be your career or are you just doing it because you loved it? Like when was the point where you thought, I'm built, I'm investing myself because I think this could be the future.

00:43:19
Speaker 1: Well, I just man. As bad as it is to say, I like, I had this, like I did in my mind to where I wanted to be and what I wanted to be was one of these te I wanted to be a Texas artist with a bus. Having a bus was like the thing, being able to play enough music to need one and to afford one. I was like, these guys are this is awesome? Like if you can make I didn't like, I was like, if I can make whatever money. If I can pay my house bill, you know, pay a mortgage and have a bus, and that's the size of my band. I'm great. That's all I need. You know, I was being a pirate out on the high seas, you know, doing swashbuckling and doing all the things, and I just saw that's what I saw. That was the goal, I suppose, and that just kept the fire in me to just like play all of these shows. I mean, nothing made me happier than a calendar that you had to scroll down on to see all the dates and I didn't care what they were.

00:44:17
Speaker 2: Did you ever get a bus?

00:44:19
Speaker 1: Now, I didn't get a bus on into Nashville, so.

00:44:21
Speaker 2: You didn't get a bus then, But the goal was to get a bus.

00:44:23
Speaker 1: The goals to get a bus, And you know I fell in Casey Donahue was really good to me. His wife. They managed me for a little bit, and I mean saw, I guess some potential and I don't care what anyone says, like I should say. Like for me, I needed some outside validation because I was looking around going like in my head I'm thinking like I'm as good as the person that I'm seeing tonight at this show, and I don't know what, you know, I think I can do this, Like I had that confidence, but it took someone investing some time and some money in me to where it was like real, you know, validating. And so I wrote a couple of songs with Casey and and you know, Texas has its own music chart, and you know, he puts out a single and he goes, you know, number one. So I have like a number one on the Texas chart. And you know, I'm writing songs, you know, that's my thing, right and I'm putting out original music and touring on that. And I moved to Nashville. You know, I started going to Nashville. I think I'm gonna be there like a week, week and month, you know, and do this thing, which like in hindsight, was like, dude, no one does that unless you're already a huge artist or a huge writer. You don't start by dipping your toe in. You pull your toe out later. But that's what I thought. I started moving to Nashville. Had a friend that lived and would just like let me rent his room out in his house, And slowly but surely, I was just like, Okay, I'm gonna just be in Nashville. I'm gonna play less shows, but I'm gonna get a publishing deal. That's all I wanted, was app. I just wanted to write song. I thought all my problems not problems, but I thought like that's what I needed. And then in a way I was right, you know, like I got a published deil. Finally I was in town like two and some years before I got a published deal. I had some offers, but.

00:46:07
Speaker 2: Found like left were going back and forth to say.

00:46:09
Speaker 1: I was there. I was living in Nashville at that time, you know, kind of full full time.

00:46:15
Speaker 2: Well then what major commit to just go and live in Nashville. What was that moment?

00:46:19
Speaker 1: I think it was, you know, I'd had that success in the Texas world, and I thought, oh I can. I feel like I can do this, you know, I felt like, you know, I don't say this in terms of like quality of music. I'm just saying this in terms of size of market. I felt like, you know, if I could do it in double A, maybe I could do it in the Major's kind of thing, you know, just in terms of size of things. And and then I was also looking around there were people doing what I wanted to do. In Nashville. You know, they were like they were older than me. But like Darryl Scott, who is one of a hero of mine, wrote songs that artists cut. I wanted to be the guy that wrote songs for big artists like Jaron Johnson. That was Catllait three, right, I wanted. I wanted to do that. I want to be like you know, like everyone wants to be Stableton. But you know what I mean, like career trajectory wise, I wanted to write big country songs, but then I wanted to have my cool ass little indie country band.

00:47:10
Speaker 2: Like niche career while writing songs to really fund fund your niche career.

00:47:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I wanted a tour enough to have Again, I wanted to be in a bus doing these markets, but I wanted to be cool, and I didn't you know, songs on the radio. There were some cool ones, but there again we were talking about like there were songs about being a dad whatever. Cool and that's what I wanted. So I moved to Nashville, got the publishing deal and started writing and started getting these rooms. And then you know the learning curve. Because I started playing so late, I always felt like I was behind, so that probably built fire too. Like you know, if I had an off there, I was writing, I was working on something, and I moved to Nashville, finally got a publishing deal, and about six months into that publishing deal, I think I write Prayed for You with a couple people in town and my manager at the time, and Alison Velt shout out Alison the songs about her husband, and I wrote Pray for You, and I I thought we had written a good song that day, but I I had no idea. It was like gonna be a life changing hit song and no idea. And so my publishing company were putting out an EP and they're like, we should put these songs, and my publishers like, man, you should put Pray for You on there too.

00:48:24
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, well, let me stop you for a second, because if you wrote write Prayed for You, you three were just together generally writing, and then your publisher were just going to go and pitch the song. You aren't writing for anything specific. She didn't have anybody in mind, so I.

00:48:40
Speaker 1: Think they were. I mean, I think we were kind of writing for We were writing for me, because you know, the idea was like we're gonna put an EP together. I get, you know, pitched to lay, We'll see we get some traction.

00:48:49
Speaker 2: That's what I wanted to know, Like what was the purpose of the right to me?

00:48:53
Speaker 1: I was in there writing this song that is like I'm proud to say it's a good song. I'm really proud of that song. It's not the kind of music that I thought I would be making, you know from what we just talked about. But I wrote that song and I was, you know, cool awesome, wrote.

00:49:08
Speaker 2: A good song the day you finished. Did you think it was good?

00:49:11
Speaker 1: I thought it was good.

00:49:12
Speaker 2: You say it was for you?

00:49:13
Speaker 1: No, No, I didn't. I didn't know, Like I had never written a hit song before, Like I wasn't one of these guys that just moved to town. And like lightning, it hits in a battle.

00:49:23
Speaker 2: Like thematically when you finished it, where you're like nothing says Stelle like prayed for you. Like I just wonder, right, I know, because it doesn't sound based on the things that you heard that didn't resonate with you. And this is the irony of it, is that, especially the music you wanted to make, you finished the song and it's like man stamp of Stelle just right there exactly.

00:49:42
Speaker 1: And you know, to be honest with you, Bobby, I have I have tried to put more and be more me in the music that I've made as an artist, because I wasn't an artist at that, Like I wasn't a person on the radio. Then like we put that song out in that EP out and John Marx was at Spotify at the time, and my other manager emailed him. They put that song on Spotify and it started. It was like a million streams a week on without much at all playlisting. And then it, I mean it organically did it blue?

00:50:13
Speaker 2: It went viral. Before that, it with social media was viraling songs to deals.

00:50:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, for yeah, it was it went viral.

00:50:21
Speaker 5: Yeah.

00:50:21
Speaker 1: Basically like for me music, my socials have always followed my music. They have not like my George Birds, you know, one of my good friends. He's a little bit the other way, you know, social media. He's really good at it, and he's also very good at music. But his socials are the are the the bell cow you know, that gets all that great music to people. And me have always muscles have always lagged behind whatever music I had. And yeah, man, that happened and then we shot.

00:50:47
Speaker 2: It a single, Like, was it in your mind? Because again, if you send it to Spotify and John used to be the guy spotify.

00:50:55
Speaker 1: Was it this?

00:50:55
Speaker 2: I guess singles a weird word if you're not.

00:50:57
Speaker 1: Actually it was the scene, it was the song, It was the it was the one song we sent.

00:51:02
Speaker 2: Okay, so were you trying to service at to radio as well?

00:51:05
Speaker 1: Well? At that point we were, you know, I was going and playing some songs in some offices downtown, but I really, you know, hadn't nailed anything. You know, we had a little interest here in there, but I didn't have a record deal or anything.

00:51:16
Speaker 2: Did you feel like the song where you we're like, oh man, it's a good song, but I don't really want this to be the single. Even though the song was good. Did part of you not want it to be the single because it was love?

00:51:24
Speaker 1: And in my you know, if I'm being honest, I wanted that song to be a multi week number one for Blake Shelton or for whoever. Like I thought that's what I was doing because I thought we'd written a good song that day. But man, you know, for me in this business and how hard it was and to get started and getting started late, you know, if you have an opportunity. I've never been one that was so confident in myself that I would be picky and choosy about opportunity. And so when that song hit like it did, we started getting calls from some labels. Then we got a call and signed a deal and blah blah blah. You know that led to you know, whatever did.

00:52:12
Speaker 2: You have to have like an internal conversation of this is not exactly what I thought it would be, but this is awesome, so we're going to commit and just go.

00:52:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well I knew I just wanted to make music that mattered to people, and I did struggle with this a little bit earlier. Yeah, to answer your question, but like I had, I always want to make music that mattered to people. But I never thought I was going to be as someone who wrote like one of the bigger wedding songs. I wasn't married. I mean, if it like, I wasn't even engaged at that time. I don't think maybe you know, I can't remember, maybe I was. Those timelines seem like they're parallel, but they're different tracks of mine. But uh, yeah, I had no idea. And now you know, now that I am married and found somebody that I that I think those things about that song makes even makes more sense to be now number one, but number two. It is really really humbling and special that people want to include that song, get it tattooed on them, somebody has those lyrics on a headstone like that. I there's no amount of like, oh wow, I wish, I wish my famous song was about whiskey, you know, like, dude, I'm just glad to have made any music that matters to people. And but yeah, I mean there was that. The questions you're asking were questions I asked myself, and these are the answers to those questions.

00:53:40
Speaker 2: I bet that. And I've even seen it from being your friend and people know we're friends. I mean, we were at Auburn and we're doing something down there and the girl was like, I know your friend's Matt Stelee. Well use that in our wedding. Smash cut two. We were down and doing a show the other night and the reporter you're on the bus. He didn't know you're on the bus and he was like, yeah, this song that Matt is my our wedding song. I mean that that's all the time right, it is.

00:54:04
Speaker 1: Man and and in the best, in the best way, Like I just that's something I was like kind of blind to about it. I didn't understand what it meant for people to in that whole stressful period of trying to choose the exact, perfect right thing for their special day and for them to flatter me and by using a song that I wrote, Like, I didn't understand how big of a compliment that was, But I do now.

00:54:30
Speaker 2: And your co writers were they disappointed that a song that they wrote that was so good ended up being used on a no name artist.

00:54:39
Speaker 1: Well, no, because no, because at that point my publisher was also my manager, was also my co writer, also helped me produce the.

00:54:49
Speaker 2: Extremely ancessual help.

00:54:51
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, so no, I think it was we've broken another artist because that's what they were signing. They signed me as an artist writer and saw that, you know, because like they had signed another they had had success with another artist writer previous, and I was sort of like the next person up.

00:55:07
Speaker 2: And yeah, in the structuring of that song, where did you go, oh, dang, it is a good one, Like, what what was like the flip?

00:55:16
Speaker 1: What was the melody in there's a couple of lines in it I really like, and we we told her love story, but we wrote it as a character that I could sing on stage, and you know, like that's one thing I like people think, you know, oh, that's the prey for you guys. And again that's like in movies, no one thinks that Schwarzenegger's you know, the terminator, right, but it is in music that's I heard Isabel say that one time. It was very smart, uh, but that I'm you know, kind of that that guy. But we so we wrote the song in a way that's telling that story from a way that I could kind of tell it. And so really long answer the the chorus melody in the second half is what it's kind of what does it for me?

00:56:01
Speaker 2: On that.

00:56:02
Speaker 1: And to the example part of it, I kept my faate like that old King James, and I'm supposed to just in context that does a lot of work. And it's just I don't know. The song was just I'm proud of it because it has a little lyric flip, which I have. I've always I just I'm always gonna make music that has some kind of lyric is doing the work, and that one does a little bit of it, you know, the melodies. The melody is cool, and you know it's just I just hard for me to hear and tell you what I love the most about the thing that I know.

00:56:32
Speaker 2: It's mostly like what when what part of it made you go this is actually good? Like because I think with songs it can be again a lyric flip, a double meaning.

00:56:44
Speaker 1: It could be it's some.

00:56:45
Speaker 2: Sort of pre chorus. That's a cool melody, you know for us. When we wrote the Mom song, you know, I thought my bosom reference is pretty strong, you know, immediately immediately I guess that that that would be kind of that that It's always like my curiosity in a song like everywhere but on that song, where was it when you in that song? When you're writing it there like, oh we found it, We found the thing.

00:57:09
Speaker 1: The title of the song. Like when Paul Sykes and I and Lance were writing that song, we were just in a room and we're going through titles and Paul says, I got the title. I moved everywhere but on and I went, oh, hell, yeah, that's write that because that's what I mean. That's much more of a me kind of song, you know, Like I love it in terms of like you know in here, but uh, we were and we wrote that song in like an hour, like it just came like it was it was apparent what we wanted to do, and that was praver. You took like two different sessions to kind of get done and get right. But but everyone and on was like like we were done with it, and I did. I didn't. I did not think it was going to be a single either because I liked it so much. Like I'm not a something. I can't like see outside of my own thing very well well to know what's to hit, what's not what I should. You know, I've never been good at that.

00:58:05
Speaker 2: How does life change after you have a number one?

00:58:09
Speaker 1: It changed? I mean all of my all of those dreams that I talked about came true. Maybe I should have dreamed bigger. I don't know, but I remember Bray for You was top five or so, and I was in a I drive. I was in a van and trailer and anytime I've had a van since I started playing music to now, I drive ninety eight percent of every mile, like I was always behind a wheel. And I remember looking at a tour schedule that we had coming up and Uh. I was like, I cannot physically do this, Like I can't. I had like a twelve hour jump between shows that I would have to drive overnight and get there, and it was like seven and ten days. I was like, man, I physically can't do this. And I called my manager at the time. I was like, I think I think I need a driver or something, and he was like, I think you might need a bus.

00:59:07
Speaker 2: And I went, oh, that's what I need.

00:59:10
Speaker 1: That's what I need. And we got in that bus and pray for you. Like I said, it was almost the number one before we got in a bus, But that was like the that was the big turning point for me. And then you know again that there was I was in a relationship and you know, pray for you everyone's wedding song. And it was probably the straw that broke the camel's back on that, uh, on that relationship because I was gone all the time. I mean just all the time.

00:59:38
Speaker 2: Isn't it weird how people treat you totally different. The same person can treat you totally different with a one different element of success. Yeah, I think I got a little better at that. I should It should have been the other way for me when I started to like have success, I was no different, but it was like people would treat me way different. They never really treated me very good to begin with, and all of a sudden they were like, we've always loved you. Like I got kind of better at that. Did you have any of that at all? Or you're not like men? Your life is just misery? No, I mean life is pain and misery.

01:00:14
Speaker 1: And I just I don't know, man, I feel like I just kind of like I kind of get it, you know, because I'm sure I've been that way. You know. I try not to be that way, and I try to like I try to not be, but you know, like I needed that outside validation for myself. Like I just was talking about that earlier, you know, and it had that that was important to me at the time. So it's like it's this, that's the same thing, you know, you know in a way, but you know it, but it is like much more of like a that is that is how things are.

01:00:59
Speaker 2: But also showed me I don't want to be like that.

01:01:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, you Bob, you were good. I remember we really first met backstage at the Opry, and you know, I obviously knew who you were or whatever like that. While obviously and uh, I mean you were we met, then you're like, hey, dude, congratulations, let's let's link up seriously, Like you said, I remember you saying seriously, and I was like, oh, okay, he probably means that, you know, as opposed.

01:01:23
Speaker 2: To because I don't say that. I don't like people generally, I don't like and in the industry, so if I say that like, I mean it, so yeah, I remember that.

01:01:31
Speaker 1: I was like, no, seriously, Yeah, I remember you saying that to me and me going like, oh, well that's pretty that's pretty dope, like you know, and I always but also to do because I like, I really felt like I just kind of like, you know, I'm proud of writing Pray for You. But I was also like the reasons that I wrote that song and did that song had to do with me not being like of me being like a sort of like a team player in some ways, and and me like having opportunities as they come maybe capitalizing or taking advantage of those. So like, it wasn't this I saw this thing, I said I was going to do this thing. I did this thing. I felt like I felt like I was one of the people in town who was good enough to have something happen, that had all the right circumstances for something to happen, And there was a lot of people in town that are as good or better than me at music that don't get those opportunities. So if it's like, if that's why I'm you know, get to be backstage of the opera, get to have a tour bus, get to you know, buy a house or whatever because of music, how much ownership can I really feel of that? I think it's really just more of like I need to just be grateful that those things happened, because you know, then something like COVID happens and it does the opposite.

01:02:50
Speaker 6: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor, and we're back on the Bobby Cast.

01:03:05
Speaker 2: Well, look at your streams on just we only have a few minutes left here. But so if I go m A T T st e ll Matt still the artist prayed for you one hundred and thirty three million streams. I got one hundred thirty three million streams. Pay that that pays pretty good. Huh yeah, mechanical or publishing pay more?

01:03:29
Speaker 1: What's that for you?

01:03:30
Speaker 2: It's mechanical or publishing paid more.

01:03:34
Speaker 1: Publishing, I'm sure because it was a it was a you know, terrestrial radio hit.

01:03:39
Speaker 2: It was like a multi okay, fair breaking in Boots. Seventeen million word of that song peak sixteen everywhere, but on was number one. That ain't me no more? What did that peak?

01:03:51
Speaker 1: Bro, that's one of the thirty that was That's all I thought was higher than that. It should have been. Man, I didn't write that song. Hardy sent me that song, and I immediately thought, this is a smash. I can't believe Hardy would send me a song this good. And I think I might be the only artist in the history of country music that took a Hardy song to thirty. It was like it was like it was like Hardy Hunter, Phelps, Nick, Donnelly, I'm gonna forget Smith and Quiz. I'm gonna forget who all was on there. But that had But if I'm being honest, like that had to do with my label deal with Sony New York and Sony Nashville, and I got caught in the crossfire of some bs. And I'm not just saying I didn't write that song. I just believed in that song. I really like. It's such a lesson in humility, man, because I remember sitting in my truck and hearing that song come on one night on Big ninety eight or whatever and in Nashville and going, this is.

01:04:50
Speaker 9: Me, we're actually gonnas in hotel room read as I let's keep being.

01:05:02
Speaker 2: Just clean the room. Oh, got it, got it, got it? Thank you Read for handling that.

01:05:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. So you hear the song, I mean I heard it. It was starting to get played, and I was like, this is the coolest thing that I've done. This is the kind of music I want to make. This is this is badass. This There's no way this doesn't work. I remember playing on like you know, we had every tour lined up for this, and that we were selling a bunch of our own tickets and and I remember thinking, oh, this is it, this is I got it in the bag. And then syndication time came and there was none, and that this song died, and I was just like, I don't I don't know anything about what's popular. I don't know what's I know what I like, but I don't know what's cool. Because if this song isn't it, I don't I do not know what's cool.

01:05:52
Speaker 2: There's an interview that I did with John Mayer. It's over the years, it's got millions of views, but we talk about that and that He's like, Dude, stuff that resonated the most of the stuff that I've done that I don't even really like as much. And he talked about like waiting on the world to change. He was like, I'm fine never playing that song again, but he does because he knows, like that's what generally people love. Your Body's in Wonderland, you know, is like that resonates with the greatest group of people. I'm able to make my cooler stuff because people love the stuff that I make that is able to be mass consumed.

01:06:24
Speaker 1: And I think too, like I've thought about this a lot in trying to like rebuild things after COVID. I think that the reason that I'm opinionated about a lot of music, and I know what I like and I do what I like, or I know say it like this, The reason that I want to make the kind of music that I do is because I want people to think that I'm smart. And that's an insecurity on my part, and I make if I'm making music from this insecure place, where I'm trying to like not insecure, like I'm just trying to do my best and I'm trying kind of like why I just I just want oh man, that listening to this flip listen and I'm just completely lose. I have lost sometimes the plot of why are people listening to music? In terms Instead of making music for people to listen to, I'm making music for people to like me, hopefully be impressed by you impressed by me. And it's just it's a it's an insecurity.

01:07:23
Speaker 2: But if you didn't have that, you wouldn't want to do what you do right, Like It's yeah, that the that the weird construct of anything creative is if you want wildly insecure and seeking validation love, you wouldn't do it at all. But there has to be some part of you though that is so secure that you think you also can do it.

01:07:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, It's why I have such an aversion to some of the like content creators. I like making content when it's interesting and fun and creative. I hate making trendy content. I hate finding what's trending on on TikTok and shooting a lyric video to that stuff because it's to me, it feels the same way that putting out a song I'm not proud of feels like or something. It's not creative, but it's just it's serving a different purpose than being creative, but it is.

01:08:16
Speaker 2: It's that we and we kind of end on this. We played those couple of nights, but we've played together before. It's not like we mean, we've run stuff and we know each other now for a long time, and I would consider you a friend. I had a surprise birthday party. You were there, Like that's the level of surprise. Yeah, And I was like, I already knew. My wife's still upset that I did that, But I know where to do that just from my version of like, there's a segment we do that research is so high that when I started doing it sixteen years ago, nobody really did it and it was right down the middle, and it was to tell me something good segment. We have to do it every day, and we do it multiple times every day, and at times people will be like I was backstage at NFL Honors and somebody that was taking pictures of Belichick and then Snoop and then I hopped in. She was like, oh my bones, tell me you tell me something good, guy, and I know what it's like to have something I don't. I don't even like doing that segment anymore. It's fine, but I do it so much and it's so popular in testing and research that we continue to do it. I don't hate it. I'd rather do eighty four things other than that, so I know what that feels like, because I don't want to be I would rather somebody be like, man, I heard you said this. I laughed out loud or I saw it, but even backstage in NFL Honors, and she was just just saying what she knew me from. She goes, oh, tell me something good. And you and I had a conversation a couple of nights ago and you played Prayed for You, and I just I felt like, possibly there was a chance you felt the way about that song that I did tell Me Something Good, and I was like, dude, it's awesome. Like if you're ever starting to feel like, I don't know, I'm playing it too much, am I only this guy? Like it's so good still and still feels so fresh when you play it, and I just don't want you to count and crowise it and change the melody because you're getting bored with it. Yeah, man, Yeah, dude.

01:10:08
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. I don't have those like I really am really grateful to have made music that has mattered to people. It's awesome well, and even if it's not the way that I thought like it's it's I'm still very proud of writing that song.

01:10:24
Speaker 2: I would just get tired of playing it every night. Yeah, I mean the same way I'm tired of doing tell me something good. I can't stop. I won't stop. I'm Miley Cyrus, I can stop. But the same with that song. I just need ever everyone, so I'll be reminded, like you're good at that. You should don't don't feel like that's all you do and that's all you're known for, and that because there's not a lot of uh. I would say it's the most cerebral thing. So at times I feel like I'm known for like my most simple thing. I felt and we didn't have this talk. I didn't know you felt this way about the song, but I was like, dude, don't feel that way about that song, so tell me something good. Trauma was coming out on you. I prayed for you. It's still so freaking good.

01:11:01
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I really appreciate it. And you know, one big key difference between those two experiences, I think is that you get research back on that segment, what weekly or something.

01:11:16
Speaker 2: I mean, okay, we used to get it back frequently. Well you know, time to change, sure, but you we would get it.

01:11:23
Speaker 1: When I get the feedback of playing that song and people yelling and them singing and slow dancing to it and coming up wanting to sign like it, that's instant, Like, man, I'm so happy to have made music that matters to people. And I mean, that's just kind of it. And now I'm in a stage in my life where the best songs that I've written in the past like several months are love songs and I and I don't feel weird about them anymore. I don't feel soft about it. I feel like because I've I've done a lot of not solve things and the fact that I you know, that's a whole nother journey or whatever. But but that just like a key maybe maybe difference is because when people react, when people react the way that I want him to do a song that I wrote in and plan this, I've never it's the happiest that I am.

01:12:11
Speaker 2: Don't stop playing it good, don't change the melody.

01:12:14
Speaker 1: I want to keep playing.

01:12:14
Speaker 2: I'd like to keep working. Yes, don't stop playing it. Don't change the melody. Do it so many times? All right?

01:12:20
Speaker 1: Cool? Yeah?

01:12:22
Speaker 2: When do we become friends? I mean.

01:12:28
Speaker 1: That opery thing would have had to been nineteen.

01:12:30
Speaker 2: As pre COVID. Right then, when you guys met, when you became friends? I was trying to think before he came in, like, when did we actually become friends? I don't know.

01:12:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just kind of happened. It's organic here okay, here wrote.

01:12:43
Speaker 2: Few about me is where it comes out. Uh, you guys go follow. We did all this in the uh, in the pre before you came on. But all Matt social it's all at Matt Stelle pretty much.

01:12:56
Speaker 1: Right at mass Stell or at mess Music on some ship.

01:12:59
Speaker 2: He does some great TikTok dances in the best seller The Guy Rocks It, Oh, final final thing we were. We won't even say who because I don't want to blast him. Somebody of prominence as the ability to make decisions on a high level. Had heard one of your songs hasn't been recorded yet. I was like, that's it, Although not a traditional song that would be released two outlets. How does that influence what you're about to do?

01:13:29
Speaker 1: A lot? It influences it a lot. I mean, when you get feedback from people whose opinions matter, you can't help but to pay attention.

01:13:38
Speaker 2: To that, and opinions who can actually create.

01:13:41
Speaker 1: When I say matter, I mean opinions that, yes, can influence and create right exactly. And yeah, man, you get good feedback about that. And also I've never been I'm pretty secure in my in thinking about me writing songs, like am I a good songwriter?

01:14:01
Speaker 8: Like?

01:14:02
Speaker 1: I checked my own box for that, but I don't again when MS come up, I don't. I do not check the box of knowing what people like or whatever. So I do rely on a handful of people whose opinions matter to me for various reasons. And so it feels really really good to have not just some of those people liking a song, but to have I will sug guess, I'll say, all of the people whose opinions I solicit.

01:14:32
Speaker 2: Like it.

01:14:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, that's that's pretty that feels good.

01:14:36
Speaker 2: All right, We're done at matt Stelle or Matthew Letter.

01:14:44
Speaker 1: Hoping in you can find me blue check I'm hilarious.

01:14:47
Speaker 2: He's not the non blue check that's asking for gift cards. That's although he could be all right, that's it.

01:14:54
Speaker 8: Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production.

01:15:00
Speaker 2: U