#118 - Jesse Frasure: Producer + No. 1 Songwriter on “Unforgettable” “Marry Me” and more.

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Speaker 1: I welcome to another episode of the Bobby Cast, Episode one eight team with Jesse Frasier, who's a songwriter, a producer, a DJ, a remixer. You're gonna hear that. I really had a good time. I don't know what to expect, which I said, we've met before. We spent some time together in New York, but it was with other people. But I really enjoyed this one. Got a bunch of Number One's unforgettable, marry Me, dirt on my boots, no such thing as a broken heart. So yeah, that's coming up. Just know. Even when this was over, right, Michael, I was like, man, I thought it'd be pretty good, but I enjoyed it. Yeah, I was wait a good time. Some other episodes to check out. Kimberly Schlapman from a Little Big Town, Scott Hamilton's that's an interesting one. The Olympic gold ice skater become a friend recently, The Trouble tapes all about the billboards that I bought back in the day. It's part of a series we're doing upcoming. There is I think next week a Bobby Cast with Lindsay l which I haven't hyped at all, but she has a new record coming out, a John Mayor album cover album, and then John Hamlin is scheduled to appear the producer of the c MT Awards TV producer. So I think it's good. I'll be check out Jake's which, by the way, that Jake Owen's Good Company podcast. But Christian Bush's podcast has Rita Wilson, who is Tom Hanks's wife, and I believe they're talking about geeking out about watercolors. So seeking out in the name of the Christian Bush podcast. If you're looking for country music podcasting, Whiskey Riff Guys have one and Velvet's Edge does episode two? Does that exist yet? With Amy? There you go. So as we get into this episode one eight Team with Jesse Fraser, I encourage you to tell your friends about this. If you like it, check out those other podcasts and check out others. And away we go, all right here with Jesse Frasier. As we turn our phones off, I don't know if that was mere you. Is that somebody cool texting you? This is low Cash? Oh yeah, look for songs. It's either songs or sneakers. With Low Cash and the sneaker part of it, they're very kind. They will, They'll send me sneakers to it. They're good dudes. Chris and loc has got great sneaker hookups. Yeah, they have the By the way, Jesse Frazier's here. We were talking abo before we went on. They have the hook up at under Armour, and so they recently sent me some shoes, some of the rock shoes and the thing about because you're a shoe guy like me, I'm a sneaker head. Yeah. See, I don't call myself that because I'm not that emotionally invested. I have a lot of shoes, have a lot of sneakers, but I feel like real sneaker heads, like you spend time, like really looking at the craft of shoes. Well, it's the hunt. It's like anything a collector. You know. We kind of get off on having that thing, you know, like, oh, he's got the belt crows, so you want this special, Yeah, you want that soft after thing. We have a guest room at our house. Luckily I got my wife hooked now, but that probably would have been a divorce aspect, So now she kind of gets it because she likes shoes now. But yeah, we have a guest bedroom that's dedicated to sneaker. Dum, what do you have one? Right now? These are just basic Nike Cortez. Which. The thing about basic, though is if you're known for your shoes and you wear basic, then people think your basics are awesome. That's what I've noticed about my most basic Nikes. I'll where the people go, oh, what are those, and I'll be like, Oh, these are just air maxes. You know. I love a good Adidastan Smith or Nike Cortez clean white. You can throw them away every year because they're not extremely expensive, so you can trash them and go with everything there. Yeah, which are very comfortable. Yet these are probably my favorite travel shoe. Yeah, because they're very comfortable. Yeah, So you gotta have a good airport shoe because they can slat them off airport sweats. For as much as I travel and airport shoes, like, I have a complete airport wardrobe at this point, I'm an airport something. It's like a big pajama party two at the airport, Like Mike and I put up a jamazon and we get our blankets. We're just going to That's the one place you're allowed to look like a church with sunglasses on too, right, so we can all wear sunglasses and airports my eye glasses, my eyes just about. I can't wear sunglasses because I can't see, and so I have to get prescription sunglasses and I have one pair, but I can't keep up with them. So yeah, so I'm it's not that I mean, I'm a douche, so I don't care about looking like a douche, but it's just that it's as difficult for me to wear sunglasses because I can't see, and so I can never just like borrows, I can never borrow someone's guitar because I'm left handed, which is a little bit of a drag. If you're sitting around everybody's playing songs, passing around, I'm like, oh yeah, pass. I don't even sit at camp fires. But sometimes I'm in the room or I'll be, you know, writing a song for you know, the kids record or one of the raging idiot things, and like here like, oh man, let me use your guitar. Nope, because I'm left handed. Same thing with sunglasseslass. We're talking about your day. You walked in and I was like, hey, you know what you do today? And you said you wrote today. Yep. Ashley Gourley, who's one of my buds and regulars. Um, we kind of have a fairly often. I don't keep anything regular. I always find if we keep regul other things on the calendar, it gets a little lexa days ago, or we end up canceling on each other because they're like, oh, I've got him next Tuesday. But Ashley is one of the few that you know, it's on the calendar quite a bit. We've had a good little run and then Emily wise band, and Emily is the one. I don't know. I was saying that to you before, Like I know, everybody else have either played like with Ashley. We haven't socially. I mean maybe a little bit, but we played doing this in a in a couple of weeks or so, he said her. You guys were reached. I think so, but but I know actually we played a couple of charity rounds together. I do my Goofie song. He plays awesome songs that she's like he plays one of his thirties playing keys and just playing the crap out of it. Or we've seen each other like like kell think Kelsey's number one party. Yeah that makes sense. But Emily, everyone's like she's so cool, like she's a singer too, righte. She's like, yeah, great voice. Um, she's got a couple of cuts with Trum. That's what. That's how we know each other, you and I bet. Yeah, it's from from the It was I Heeart thing together in New York. Yeah. We set up on stage age and basically it was the only time that they've ever done this on like a national live radio platform. We set up and actually talked about the record, which is Thomas Schart's last record, which you co produced and wrote some of the songs on it, which, by the way, let me say this, by the way, Jesse Fraser, I don't know if have I already even introduced him? Have I? You feel like we just started talking. It's because you three, that's what we're asking about. That that's true. Well, that's the thing for me. I need structure, right, I have to have this structure. Now. I'll do different things inside of my structure, but I have to wake up at three three am every show morning, and I'm down. I may not fall asleep, but I'm down by eight thirty at least I have to be because I have to get up at three. Now I may not fall until eleven, but I'm down by eight thirty. But then I do stand up on the weekends and I won't go on stage of the theater until nine, so I'm off at ten thirty. I'll meet people till eleven fifteen. So it's like back and forth back right, So there's never really a I'm always rested, because I'm never rested. That's what it is. Uh. You and I met in New York at the My Heart Country UM Thomas Rrette album released, and so I started looking at some of the songs that you either co producer or co wrote, and I have some of them here. So, by the way, there's a article on Variety about you today. How about that ready yet? But um, we have partners with the Rock Nation. Then yeah, it says this is one. It says like that I pulled out here. I did my research. A Grammy nominated hit maker with a background, and E. D. M says that while fift of our time its spent working in country music, we want to have a multi genre focus, so most of our writers come from different worlds. I think that's very important. I mean, I think you're probably you probably will get hate from the very loud minority. It's a very loud mind because they scream at me too, because I'm playing hip hop on the country radio station. So I know how frustrating it is to be the person that here's the very vocal minority scream at you. You gotta feel that. Yeah, I mean Thomas talk about at the time. We have a fictitious character that we call him at Buck Slayer seventy nine, who thinks basically I'm the anti Christ for doing the uh you know, pop and fuse country. The funny thing is, I've been a part of some pretty country songs like yeah, I'm gonna go through some of those really country songs. Yeah, like dirt country songs like Dirt on My Boots or whatever else. But yeah, I mean, I'm not on a mission to to popify anything. I just I tend to like a wide variety and come from Detroit. My parents kind of raised me listening to oldies music and classics and was in the nineties, so I grew up in nineties. Tupac and Biggie who didn't we both we're basically say you so that we all listened to all things. Once Napster came along, Yes, everything was over as far as you have to listen to a specific genre because of where you're located in America. Right Absolutely, Napster broke down all those doors for us because it was us wants to start with L. I'll download every song that starts with L for free right now. There were some real problems with that system because it was all free and arts screwed um. But you know who hate choose the guy from Saving Country Music. Oh yeah, he's kind of several times. I love him so much. I love him. I'm such a fan of him because I know exactly what he's gonna say, Like he stands for something. I don't agree with him a lot of the time, but I'm such a fan of that dude because he is just consistently on his message and in a world where you just wonder where everybody stands, I don't wonder what's him and he will tear apart anybody for anything. I'm a huge fan. And he bashes me like he punches me in the nuts. Sometimes that's it's a badge to me. That's all I know. Like we're on our way. Absolutely, if he's hating on you, then you're making something. Let's let's get like a try. Let's put your gun out because you're chewing No, no, no, we started talking. That's my fault because we never sat down and went, let's start the deal. Michael, you getta like here taking Yeah, I spent that to that paper right there. That was my fault because I just said, hey, let's just start it, let's start talking. No, you're not gonna saw that. Yeah, oh I think it's a myth. No. No, I just still wouldn't swallow something that you can't chew up. I was fine. I've been swalling gum my whole life. You do that. My wife thinks it stays in your pit. How do you know it doesn't? Though, I don't know, but I know that I've been doing it since. I don't make a habit of it, but I've done it since I was a kid. To me, it's like the frog awarts thing. But I was with the guy and he we were in Las Vegas at the A c M. And it's han't dinner with him, and he runs a record label. Rare for me to get what they wanted a record label. But one of my friends, it knows him, is on the label. So he did he cuts an orange up and he does. He leaves the outside of the orangeine just eats the orange, the whole thing with the peel. And that's why I said. I was like, what is happening here? And he goes it cleans on palette. There's nothing wrong with Bill. I'd never just like you swallow the gum and I was like, what are you doing? He severe Though they're equally, it's cractic. I think yours is crazier than his, because at least you know that orange will break down. Well that's true. Yeah, you might be right. Just sall rubber and he at least organic. Here's some some of the Thomas Red stuff. So this is let's see. You produced die Happy Man by the way, which is not on the new record, but you produced this song here. When you produced a song, are you getting any points on that forever? Okay? You are? So it's not just a producer fee upfront and then you're done. We have getting advance and we get points on it. Here. Oh, come on, you're printing money. Just wait until you hear this other stuff. And like, I'm happy for I love to see people make it. I love to see people be successful, especially if they're working hard. Uh so, here's some songs that the europe for tire Life Changes, which is the current single here Change such a good song. He texts me about two months ago. And I don't know how much I factored into any decision, but he goes, hey, man, do you think life changes as too personal? And I said, for what? He goes for a radio song, and I said, I don't think there's a such thing as too personal ever, And then he's sort of if you let people into your life, but in a world when things don't matter to anybody anymore, because there are so many things like you're basically putting out a biography in three minutes, and people get to know you with the super catchy hook this song and caps like Tom trap perfectly. You guys had a great job of the song. Thank you. But he knows you'd be honest too. For sure. I would have said no, I don't think so, and he does. You know, is for someone being as confident as he is in his place and taking risks and and pushing boundaries, he does think about that, what is the next fan going to think? Is this a fan song or is this a universal song? And in those kind of concepts. So I'm sure he knows you're gonna shoot him straight on that. When you guys write that, though, is that a conversation in the room too, Like, oh, is this too personal of a song? And then is it a conversation before you put on the record? Yeah. I mean, to be honest with you, I don't think any of us expected to be a single. It was one of the last songs we wrote. We wrote at the farm. His dad was there as me and Ashley and Rhett and Thomas and we were in the little guest house there and it he was going through a lot. I mean literally, I think here was nerves that life was about to get turned upside down. So um, it was a little bit of unknown and I think we were just sort of having fun and it was just a we figured we already had the whole record written, you know, take a stab at it. So it's such a smart move if that play works too, put out something that people would like to consume while they learned about you at the same time, just for the Thomas brand. Because and I learned this, I put out a book. I think it was gonna read the thing, Honest to god, I wrote a book. I thought that I was gonna read this. It was best seller for four weeks, and I didn't know what I was doing when I was, but I learned, Wow, if I can make something good that also people relate to and learn about me, it helps my message. And so I think you guys capture that with the song. Like I think the song is really thank you and really cool for an artist to do, to put like what if Luke puts out a song goes like it's rosborn. I mean, it's just so it's just a perfect thing for a brand where you're trying to brand yourself right now because it's so hard to be enough. We actually changed the lyric and the second verse, uh, just to go to radio with just because he had already had the other baby, so it was you know what was the original verse? The original was um one on the way, and now we've changed it to the you know another sweet baby, James. How about this? Because weeks from the record Unforgettable, So before the record came out, Tom's Wreck came in the studio and he played like five or six songs in a row from the record. He came in the studio and he was playing this and I said, Hey, is that really about Lauren. He's like, no, it's not. And he doesn't say that a lot now because he said it early. And I don't scream because it care I like for people. But he's like, not really, we just kind of wrote a song. What can you add to that? What he told me? No, that's true. This was a bus song. Um, unforgettable Marry Me kind of happened in the same a week period on bus trips. It's amazing that we had this amazing run. There's actually a song called eight that was on a Target exclusive that the number two. Yeah. Um, so we had this amazing two week run, which, by the way, side note, we most of Thomas's records come from bus trips. He writes on the road more. It feels like that's like his office. So he doesn't write as much in town as he used to, just because when he's home he's with family. But yeah, it's just kind of one of those things. I think the mango Margharita thing came out and it just sort of felt like a fun up tempo because sometimes we struggle with up tempos and Thomas brand when we're writing for him, because naturally he kind of gets drawn to those singer songwriter ballads and um, it just was sort of a high energy thing with Ashley banging out on piano while we were on the bus. We set up a little Protol's rigs like this like you have here and basically capture it right there before he goes to meet and greet, tell me about this bus thing. So you go out Wednesday nights, meet at the Kroger. That's where the bus right like the buses parked in some big parking over Walmart, So you get it. Does does he have a bus for just you guys? A lot of times we'll get a rider bus. I prefer it because then they can kind of have their own space. A lot of times they've got tour managers with them or whatever. So it's great when we've got a rider bus out. Sometimes, like last weekend I was with him, we were on his bus. So we'll meet the buses park there or uber to the buses hop on around Wednesday at midnight typically and wake up somewhere Thursday morning. I'll set up the pro tools studio on the table there right in the lounge and uh start writing around ten thirty right till fourth thirty just and then pack up, put it back in the suitcases. We roll and do it the next morning, come back Sunday afternoons. He'll go on stage after he rides, so you're right, he'll pack up, he'll go do his thing is meet and greet. Absolutely, he'll go on stage. Yep. That that grinders. So like he'll come right off stage or he'll come back from Meet and greet. Want to hear where the mix is at or do a background vocal after the you know, get right back into writing. So like we finished four or five things last week and got vocals on seven. I mean, one great thing. And one reason like Ashley or myself love going out with him is we know we're out there to work. I mean, we're just out there to grind because we're all away from our families. So it's not just a party. Go see the show. I want to get some songs written, so it's pretty efficient. Here's marry me this one. This is a massive number one too. So the concept of this song, it flips on you pretty quick because you're going, okay, well, first you read the title in your guard a song about getting married, please marry me. But then it turns out wise not she's not marrying him because he's screwed up? Right? Where where'd that concept come from? Basically it was the opposite of what truly happened. He had broke up with Lauren and actually went and said or they were friends for a long time. I think it was a story, and he actually went and said, look, I think you're making a mistake. You know, you're dating this other guy. So sort of was what would happened if I didn't speak up and say something. I think the song works so well because we had set up this brand of I love my wife. He puts Lauren on the pedestal, and in that marriage is part of his brand and and his message and songs. So to have that twist and a song coming from Thomas Rhett, I think was even more effective than it would be, you know, coming from another artist. And so I have a demo. Who's singing on the demo? Here? Here is this you? Is this life? She was too Shane. Oh yeah, so you wrote this with Shane and Ashley and Thomas. So same same setup, right in the middle of the bus playing keyboard. Is that myke out in the country? Not too man? So Thomas did. A lot of times he does. It depends on where his voices. If he knows he's done one and he's got to sing a show, his voice is tired. Last year we wore his voice out a couple of times to do a demn most so you would be singing on the bus and he's gotta go singing. He's like, you actually spoke up about this song too, just because you're like, it was this one unforgettable. You're like, man, I feel like that song it was just getting heard by the time the charts for sure. Yeah. Yeah, That's a big irritating thing to me as a consumer, because I try to walk that fine line of being someone that has millions of people listening to them and knowing that I do have a bit of influence, but at the same time, I want to still take in music like my people do, and it's a really hard line from in fine line for me to walk. But so I try to watch these charts and go, this song is just now starting to be a thing before the record levels are moving off of it, because they shot at number one so quickly, and so I think it was a maybe even a three week number one, two or three, whatever it was. I was like this he has two or three more weeks in it, right, Like if this were real life, this is a six or seven week number one. But in the world, they're just throwing songs up. You number want to jerk it down, which long term hurts the artist because Okay, Blake has thirty number one. Let's just Blake for an example. How many of those thirty number ones are people really resonate with? Nine? Really? They? I mean there are number two's from ten years ago that are huge deals because this has only started happening in the past eight to ten years, where they're shooting these songs up. Great for trophies, you know, number one trophies are fun. Everybody likes to get there, but really, long term, not good for the big artists that have multiples, and not good for the consumer because they're they're off up again. Do you think it's unique? You come from other formats as well, So is it unique in our format? Absolutely? The speed, Absolutely the speed, because one, this is such a superstar format. Once you've become a superstar, you're given a pass. Your song doesn't have to research when everybody else researches. You know, it's a long time on a song, researching will radio play it. So if you're a superstar, sometimes your song will be number one before it even starts researching. I've seen songs from we'll call it the A List. There's like that's top seven or eight artists, which now tr is in at the time he wasn't. This is three years ago. I've seen songs that would fly at the chart, not registers, research, be number one and then fall off the chart and then go, oh, the research was terrible for it, where if it would have really spent the time, but it would have not been number one. That being said, it's not realistic for anyone that's not a superstar. If you're a B level act and he's a real positive, that's you know, that's not the Entertainer of the Year category. But it's like, let's go male or female vocal list of the year. So let's say you're in that B category and you have a song, so it'll take fifty weeks forty weeks to be number one when it's a smash and it shouldn't. It should have shot it faster than the superstar and pop. It's all really, who's got the best song? Come in six weeks number one, z marin nine weeks, number one, and then it will stay there for four or five weeks. It's really dictated on research plus streams, non playlisted streams. By the way, playlists, you know, what's the big You put a song on a play list, who knows how that's going to count? So people don't look it's looked at differently as well. But anyway, I mean the weird thing here, not to get too inside, but no, the remember first coming and seen behind the curtain of OZ and going, oh, there's push weeks and they target meets and they know these numbers and the syndications, spins and all this stuff. It does kind of remove a little bit of that mystery when you were a kid going on the Billboard charts. And you know, obviously I make a living off of airplay predominantly, especially these days, you know, but it is wildest to see what goes into the business of the charts, um compared to what you thought it was before you peek behind the curtain. I mean, I hosted Countingdown on thirty sessions so much and something like that, and I know, you know, at this time, I know what's coming because I see the formula of record labels, I'm sure, But I listen to Casey gave some as a kid or Rigds and go one of what's number one? Is it really the thing? And now it's just like, well was number two last week, that's probably gonna be number one this week. So there are those heartbreaking moments where you like Devin, you know, I was like that Devin Dawson. He missed it by one spin, not even a full spin in a major market. I think it was six points, which you get the an amount of points if you're listening to this, it's so inside. But the bigger the market you are, the more valuable your spin is worth. So for example, let's say you spent a song in Houston, it could be worth ten points. A spin one play in Houston's worth ten points. Devin Dawson was at number two, he lost by six points less then a spin in a big city, one spin, he finished number two. I've never seen anything like that before. By the way, that's an outlier. That's gonna be pretty unique. In my five plus years, I've never seen anything like that. Song got so close before I got here, Glory on a Lost to um Love and theft like in that year or so far, I got here and it was very close, but I have never that Devin taught that was crazy to me. So it's a spin. It's that was one. It was less than one spin. If I spent a song on my show, it's worth sixty or seventy points once spen. So it's a significant and I don't screw with that if it's close, because I'm standing out of any battles just because I'm not having a label or a management team or an artist upset with me. And what if if you you know how you do snippet sometimes in the morning when you're like going through us, you're talking about something. How much of a song before it counts as a spin? So that's the that's a great question because what happens is you don't really know where the tone is in a song, so I have no idea. So it it'll have to hit a certain amount of time, and the tone has to play. Usually it's in the first half of the song. But a tone hits since is it says, oh, this is counted as a spin. And sometimes I've spun songs without meaning to and given a song away more value but the problem is the next week they have to go above what they did the week before the song dies, and I have to put them in a bad spot. So I really try to watch that now. But that's a really good question. There's a hidden tone and songs. Did you know that? And so what happened was Here's the reason it's hidden is because back when I was no pop radio, what would happen is record labels would buy spots and they would go, Okay, I'll buy a sixty second spot, and they would take the part where they knew the tone was and put it seven times in the middle of a commercial, so it counted as seven spins in the market, and so they had to eliminate that, so you couldn't buy spins? Is what happened? Aren't the crazy? Oh yeah, it's so nutty, so nutty that I'm I'm out of that when it's if it's a close battle, I'm checking out. Like I like the kind of music I like, I like to push across, but if it's close, I'm out. So let me do a commercial over. By the way, let me say this, you're probably talking about my sleeping number bed and how great I sleep, my sleep number setting is thirty. Maybe you've considered a Sleep Number bed but you thought you couldn't afford one. Well, let me tell you this before you do anything. Go to a sleep number store and experience the a ustible comfort of a sleep number bed. And I really, honestly legitimate do have a sleep numb bread. The Sleep Number bed lets you choose the comfort and the support that's right for you. At adjusts on each side, so the bed is perfect for couples and you can feel hot contrast to your neck, your shoulders, your back, your hips, right, Mike D Yeah, number to get you want to hook me up? You were laid in my bed? Okay, you know you know. I don't want to say anything. Wait you didn't. I didn't know you let in my bed. When did you get on my bed? Stayed like over your house one time when you were out of town and you stuff on my bed? Yeah, you got to use the shot I know, right? My sleep never setting his thirty. Uh, Mike, that's weird my sleep I Q score last night. I don't even know what it was, but usually it's in the nineties. There's a semi annuals sell. You will find clearance savings of five bucks on the pressure. We're leaving Sleep Number Queen C four mattress for only there are more than five fifty Sleep Number stores. Visit sleep number dot com slash bones to find a store near you. Thank you very much, and learned something about Mike there too. So, UM, you know the variety of article that you haven't read yet that that I read was talking about so you and I could get this wrong. You run the Nashville based publishing a Rock Nation. In two thousand and sixteen, I left a small publishing company called Major Bob Music and UM started a joint venture with a rock Nation called Rhythm House. So so it's part of yours? Yeah, Um, I signed with rock Nation and Chapel myself and then Rhythm Houses is our little j V with them. But yeah, it was UM. Thomas Retz got a UM j V with Rock Nation him in Virginia and then we're the other company in town. That's UM. We got four writers including myself. Now my wife's works there in the creative team currently, j Hill and my wife's been in business around sixteen seventeen years. What do you mean she was at Warner Brothers at the time. She was interning, and um I was an intern. A lot of us kind of all came up to get it here in town. Yeah. Man, Yeah, and if I'm an intern, right, Mike bol you grew up in a Troy. You mentioned that earlier. So I was reading because I didn't know this, and I like to do my research. So you will DJ celebrity parties. Yeah, I mean, oddly enough, even though I was sort of a country music publisher when I first moved to town that this was a very different town. I came to be a songwriter, took some classes at Belmont, I was fishing. I went to Michigan State and then transferred down here, and I just was sort of intimidated by country music songwriting. Um so, and I learned about music publishing and kind of fell in love with the business side. I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna be a businessman and I'll just keep DJ in for my kind of creative kicks. So I started getting kind of hooked up with weird private parties. And uh, there was an event planner by the name of Colin Cowie, and he was like this crazy party thrower and ended up kind of flying around the world doing fifty year old birthday parties in Barbados or really New Year's even Atlantis, and and he kind of hooked us up with some cash Money records gigs, so I did, like they're Grammy parties three years in a row like this, like cash money, like New Orleans cash. Yeah, so weird, like flying a white kid from I was in Nashville, So flying a white kid from Nashville to do cash money Grammy parties. But it was like the section of the party where before, like Birdman would show up with the entourage. It's like the controlled portion of the night. But do you ever meet Loan? Yeah? Yeah, actually on stage, you know, with him smoking cigars and and drinking and party and so that's kind of that led me to going on the road with Lord Georgia Line and dj and when they did that Nelly Tour Baseball Stadium Tour where we wrote Sundays. So in a lot of ways, me djaying helped my songwriting career. The towns Ange too, you know, Megan Trainer moved here, uh and Shaye was signed to te Pain at the time. So me and Megan and Shay would write and then I mean Stable Tune would write but we were all doing just kind of pop music and fooling around. And so as this new creative crew was moving to town, and as artists like Thomas Rhett were coming up and influenced by all different music, I was deejaying and doing these gigs with country artists and it all sort of next thing, you know, I'm writing country music like I actually came to do man. Good for you. Hey, we turned the air down. I'm sweating my balls off. Holy cow, we're still learning how to do this house. I don't know. You know what's going on here? Where are you from? Arkansas? And then I lived in Uh do you know any about Arkansas? I mean, yeah, I'm from Mountain Pine, which is close to Hot Springs, which is close to Little Rock, so central Arkansas. But then I lived in Austin for th four. It's all was born in Arkansas. That's my home, But Austin's like home. If I go to chill out and it's like, hey, go back, I go to Austin, right because that's my favorite city in America because it's they've been Austin. I still have a house there. I love it. You still have aust It's the best and when you what year did you do switch? Because you were in pop. So I started My whole story is I go when I'm seventeen and begged for a job at the country radio station and they say no. But then I learned from that experience that I can't go I was seventeen, I can't go ask for a job being on the radio. So then I went to the pop station across the street. They hadn't turned me down yet, and I said, Hey, can I clean the studio and clean the lobby? And they said absolutely, And I said, okay, let'son learn from that first note. And so before you know, a week passed, they fired some dudes for stealing and they threw me on the air, which was the plan anyway. And so I worked in Hot Springs at a pop station, but I did a national alternative show, did a national sports talk show on Fox Sports for fun stations. Yeah, so I've kind of you when you tell your story, I'm just like, oh, this is the consumer like all things, because like no things but all things at the same time, like they like a little bit of everything. They're not really gonna identify super with anything, like I'm all anything, but there are a lot of everything. And so that's even how my career has been. Like I'm from Arkansas, where it was hardcore country, but I grew up in the nineties when I was an alternative kid, complete hip hop, nerd, and then it was how do I I'm not really good at anything, so let me do every a little bit of everything. And then that's kind of where I ended up now because they finally said, what do you want to do? I built my own, you know, syndication company. I was like, I want to go to Nashville if you're offering it. So that's why I moved here. But dude, I got the same. It is miserable for me for a while because they're like, oh, you're not country, Well yeah I am, but you don't understand what country means anymore. That's always my thing, like, well, what do you think country means? It doesn't mean cowboy hats to some people, but go look at a Thomas Red concert. Don really look at the people at a Thomas Red or Floor George Line concert. It's just people, right, absolutely, there's not no cowboy hats, but it's not all cowboy hats, and so you know your background. I mean you're far more talented, but you have uh you know it. The mean, it's refreshing to talk to you. I've always felt like, you know, I never I don't. I don't consider myself a prolific writer. I just I'm a music fan and I always feel like if we like it in the room, maybe someone else will, because I to this day love listening and consuming music, you know. Um. So it's it's been really fun for me to watch this town change. I mean, aside from maybe a little bit of extra traffic, um, but I remember being here when there wasn't a ton of restaurants and days in was still on West End and not the Hutton or whatever. So it's been fun to watch the town grow, but more specifically, watch the creative community grow and watch these people come through town that are collaborating. And you know the fact that we just saw an MHL single with a aren't pop artist not because we used to like borrow from like some of the retired community or whatever, you know. So it's nice to see. I think the relevance of Nashville being you know, respected more than ever maybe back in the Zomba days or or some of the nineties aspects. There was a song community that was respected and pop. But I do think that this community really has gained a lot of traction and in recent years, and people love to come here and create. There's an amazing efficiency and creative climate. You know, you mentioned Stapleton earlier. You and Chris wrote Crash and Burn right, and through writing this song, that's how you met Tomas Rtte. Is that accurate? Yeah, me and Tom and my wife actually induced. She was really close with Morgan his wife, and um she was in the EMI publishing system at the time and he was a writer there. And you know, I think we were just Adell's record had came out. I think it was the twenty one record and I always loved Chris's voice on kind of diverse, different soundy music. So we would just write pop sounding music and soul music and stuff like that in the evenings. And a couple of years later, actually it was like a year and a half later, some of those demos that we did we're circulating around and I think Thomas Read's uh business manager at the time, gave it to Thomas and he was just jamming on the bus and called me up and I said, man, I'd like this, you know, can we write a little bit? And that led to me, you know, having the production relationship with him as well. So that song was a kind of a bridge into a lot of worlds. What artists gave you the first thing you should produce this record like the first artist of substance to other people looked at and go oh, if he's producing him, then he's probably pretty good, probably Thomas. I mean, as far as production, Jim Katino at Sony gave me my first like production shot with an artist named Leah Turner at the time. Um, but as far as like people going, that's song and some of the things that came. There was another song called Lonely Girl that me and Chris did that Charles Kelly put on his solo record. Those kind of songs circulating town. I think kind of put a brand on some production stuff for me and guys like Dan. We're you know, gracious enough to go, you know, co produce this with you and Dan Hu a legend and an amazing person. I don't know, if you you spend the little time with him, he will call and leave me the nicest voicemails. He won't send a long text and send his voice text. I always tease him about that, and he goes, hey, Bobby's Dan. We listen to show this morning. I just want to say, uh, in a segment you did, I was moved by it. It just really it's just the fan. And he leaves the kindest voice text, and then I'd like to save for posterity, but it goes it's disappearing in two minutes. But I can't say, but my dad text are gone. I've said the exact thing to my wife and like, man, I wish I can't remember. We were leaving the Number one party or an award show or something, and he sent me this one and like about made you cry, and like I need to record this because I'd never figured out how to keep it or whatever. He's smart. Like that was just sweet. Kind messages vanished into the ether. Do you ever get to ask him, because it's hard when you're working with someone and there's this respect of okay, we're working together. You don't want to nerd out. But I got the nerd out on him and do one of these and he talking about Michael Jackson. Do you ever ask him any of that step or do you just try to keep it cool. Oh definitely. I mean I'll go over this house and have coffee before we get started and just vent to him. I mean he's kind of turned into like a mentor second father figure for me. You know, he's like the Jedi of like calm, because this business is really intriguing. It's it's a lot of ups and downs, and it can be um. You can go from telling you know, if I told you my seventeen year old self what I've been able to accomplish the last few years, I think it's crazy. But yet when you're in the moment, you're always thinking about what's next, what do I gotta do? But he's got this kind of even killed you know, coolness about him at all times. That and he's been through a lot. You know, he's been through you know, loyalty changes or you know where an artist was working with him many years and and changes things or they go through you know, song dramas or label frustrations or whatever it is. And the what you know, what he can pass on to guys like me that are still I feel new to a lot of aspects of this business. You know, I can't say enough about his calmness. You know, talking through some of these processes with him has been amazing. Him and I were talking about him listening to the radio and he was listening to I think it was a Paul Abduld track and he's talking to his brother and he goes, man, who ever played this? I love it? And and it brotherly goes, dude, that's you. He goes, oh, he didn't even know he played. I think it was one of it was like Opposite attract Or, one of the big Paul built singles. And he's like, man, this guitar sounds great on this. His brother said, you played that, but he didn't never hear the vocals. He just wanted to play the guitar part. And now that I feel like there's almost like urban legends about like does he play on danger Zone or is that part of the Dan? How urban legend? Do you know? If people are we talking about re Yeah, I don't either some of them. Now I feel like it gets confusing on what's real. I need to like, go, here's a pen and paper right down the reality. There's a Bobby cast with him and he talks about Michael Jackson, and I believe watching him peel his face off or like peel a mask off because he didn't want to be seen. And he walked in the bathroom, doors open, and he's like taking his face off because he was having to lead this life where he couldn't go anywhere because people are all like the whole time. It's fascinating. I love Dan huff Um. So tell me about this thing with that I read today about DJ Mustard. So you just signed d J Mustard but it's not Mustard anymore. That probably got a little confusing in the article. He's a rock Nation writer there, so they he signed Mustard, rock Nation sign him, but that has nothing to do with us as far as nash was concerned. I'm a huge Mustard fan. I think he just did the Nick Jonas single that's coming out. But that probably got a little confusing there on the wording. If that's what it's saying that we signed him something like that. Yeah, like you switched over or something and age his name from DJ Mustard to Mustard. Really Yeah, alright, I wish we signed him in Nashville, but we we did. Rememberhen EMC Hammer took EMC office had Hammers Hamper and he had that's when he had too legit to quit, and I was like, dang, hammer is hard now, and he's like, it's the pool and he was all really buff, and I mean hammer didn't last that long, but I remember, and then he went back. Man. I was such a MC hammer fan. I had the guy had a cassette single to legit. What was the other one? You gotta pray just to make it well? So that was on Police HAMMERD heard the second side. I still know all the words of that song, pray all of it all my life. I wanted to make it to the top. That's why we pray, Subtobin that they said I couldn't, but I didn't stop. That's why we pray. Oh dude, I love that. I loved Hammer Hammer and see Music Factory. We feel like it was the same kind of era, like I had all these cassette singles. DJ J in the Fresh Prince like the parents just don't understand, and the um the one after that, which was Summertime. Summertime was jam Man and I remember thinking, why is DJ Jazzy Jeff first in this combination? Well, because you know, the MC was was around to support the DJ and hype up the crowd for the DJ. It wasn't about at the time. I was nine. I was like, I'm hearing will Smith the fresh Prince, right, who was the DJ Jeff that came from a different era? I keep thinking that, and I love a lot of hip hop. Now I'm a huge post Balone fan, and but I am I keep waiting because you know it's coming. There's gonna be a nineties joint. It's coming. Someone's gonna come with it. It's gonna sound like it. Sure, I mean, has new Jack swing pull that out for a second. The first time I heard that, I was like, Okay, yeah, that's yeah, that's that's a sample to right, you know what. It's funny. We just worked with the Stereotypes were in town. Who did that record? They came and we had a couple of days with Thomas just hanging out and working with Ashley and Karen Fairchild was there. But it's different groove, but it is just reminiscent of that. It sounds like that poison. Yeah. Yeah, this song. So some of your number one we've mentioned because you have as country of country songs you could possibly have, because you wrote Dart on My Boots for John Party, Yes, yeah, and we had Red in you wrote this Red Aikins, Tom's the Dead, but it just you two in the right, Me and Ashley Red on this one. And so it's funny because there here you are going. You know, I have all these influences, but there's not a country or song on this song. Yeah, I'll send you when when we go, when I get home, I'll send you some demos of some of this stuff. I don't know if you ever heard the demo this when Red singing, um do we have that? We didn't have that play. I'll send you a drop box of some stuff. Not like you have time to listen to music when you're wake up three am, but I'll send it to you because it definitely had a little bit more swagger on it, like hip hop flavor. It just sort of R and B influence. But this one kind of came to life when John and Bart cut this I do this song and he was talking about how well already have head over boots. There's no way they're gonna put dirt on my boots, and I was shock. I was like, they're doing a whole boot concept down what he's going to deal with the boot company and said they don't want to kick in my phone to porch. Have a little All right, let me talk about life flock for one second. Have you some water over there? Every time I ask you a question, you about get a drink. It's like whenever you're gonna eat. He's about about food in his mouth and I'm going but tell me about Yes, Yeah, it's so hot in here. Sorry about that? Uh so let me talk about LifeLock. Watch out for links being sent via Facebook Messenger. According to a leading cybersecurity firm, they may contain face X worm malware. If you click on the link, you'll be taking to a fake YouTube page. I'll try to get your information and from there they can still passwords. Yeah, use personal computers, it's a whole thing. Just don't click on stuff. I have life flock because people try to still my identity, open credit cards in my name. There's so many threats in today's world. Good thing new life flock identity that protection as the power of Norton Security to help protect you against threats to your identity and your devices that you can't or fix on your own. You have a problem, agents will work to fix it. No one can stop cyberthreat, prevent all identities After monitor transactions at all businesses, new LifeLock with Norton Security can uncover threats you out otherwise miss. Go to life flock dot com are called flock and the promo code is bones for an additional ten percent off your first year. So life flock dot com promo code is bones. Get ten percent off and you'll be happy. I can tell you from experience. They've saved me a few times. So there was a woman by the way Jesse that I put this up on my Instagram. She's calling riders in town going, hey, I work for the Bybones Show. We're looking for some writers to come play. Can you send me your songs? I don't understand even what the I don't know what the scam is. There's a there's a lot of scams going around lately. What's happened with you? What are they trying to get from? Communities getting hit up by? And it's pretty it's amazing how kind of smart and savvy, or at least tricky they are. Like you'll come back from a bus trip and maybe someone posts a picture of you on a bus writing and next thing you know, you get an email or my wife will get an email going and the email looks very similar, so maybe it's a songwriter Jimmy Robbins. But there's one letter different from his real email and and it says, Hey, it's Jimmy, UM, I lost the drop box link from the bus trip this weekend? Uh can you send? Can you resend those to me? And if you're not kind of like catching yourself, and sometimes it would be an artist's name, you know how Gmail pops up and it just says the name, and if you're not careful, you you end up sending these demos. And these demos have these artists vocals on them. So I don't know what is happening. If these people just get off on collecting these songs, if they're gonna like trying to release them or black mail. I don't know what the story is, but it's kind of pathetic. It's so nutty. I watched these prison shows. Sometimes we look at these geniuses in president will create a radio at a piece of bologny and tinfoil, and I go, if you're so smart that, why weren't you being smart out of jail like you create of this scanda still songs, Go write a freaking song or publish a song or get into music. You're obviously smart enough to figure out how to get an email address of an artist or close to it, and that's a pretty good like, or at least put the compilation together. Yeah right, let's drop this thing. Let me write there some of your big number ones here Old Dominion. No such thing as a broken heart, Damn sho no matter how Lauren Atlanta, road Less Travel, Rascal Flats. I like the sound of that printing money over here. Holy cow, you got all the shoes, all the hoodies. I love shoes in hoodies. Dudes, let's say that with complete respect. Chris Lane Fix, we do want more Florida Georgia line Sunday's busy. So even on the pop side, as you have a Kylie Minogue song, Yeah, actually just this isn't single, do you know. I don't know if it's been a single yet. It's called Sincerely Yours from Kylie. But you right to say Amy watch met Amy wrote Thinking out Loud with Ed Amazing. UK writer writch Warren Chapel, So for me and Amy, Kylie, Kylie king Tom for two weeks, so you wrote with Kylie? Yeah, what's she like? She's so sweet. Really, I had a crush on her when I was Na Na Nonna on a huge crush on there to play that song go man, she's still yeah, I never I never met her. Personality is exactly what you would want to be, super personable, just like you would think super sweet, pleasant tradish. Yes, that's what I'm looking for. Pleasant and British man who you go into a room and you're riding. Who have you been in a room with? Where you go, Oh, this is a little bit intimidating because they're to you they're really cool. Well, I mean a lot of people early on, you know, guys like Ashley and and Rhett and Shane, um, Josh has more. A lot of them kind of took chances and wrote with me back before I had a lot going on, um, and I was fans of what they were doing. But then the other thing that gets really weird is sometimes you get to be and I'm sure you as well, you get to be in the room with some of your like childhood heroes, you know, um, so Steven Tyler's and and even like Kevin Griffin, who's in town. Let me tell you, I do this show called The Million Dollars show, and we started there because at the time it was gonna be the one million dollar the Raging Idiots had made for charity. It's ended up being two million dollars at first show, but we had tried to plan it out right. But so we have this million dollar show every year at the Rhyman and it sells out and we don't say who all the artists are they going to play? So but I get to pick really whoever I want because this community is so giving. If they're in town, no one says no. They all show up and play a few songs for everybody, from Stapleton to Garth Dirks. And so I was like, man, I'm a nerd out. This gives me a reason to call Kevin Griffin better than Ezra and say, hey man, we're gonna come play for charity. And he did and we played when we did good, but I got on guitar and played with him and we traded lines and good. It was the coolest thing to me of the whole night. There were two in the two moments that when we played good and Darius and I doing hold my hand because I was such a huge hoodie fan, and Darius let me sink part of hold my hand with him, So it was the same way that same era. It's like and Darius as chill as they come to it is weird, you know. I remember trying to come up with the guitar part of Good or you know when you're in your childhood bands, so those kind of moments are crazy or you know modern heroes. Like it was just Mother's Day, you know how you go through your phone, You're trying to find that Instagram post for your all your mother in laws and your mom's or whatever, and I stumbled on this picture of me and Thomas and Ashley with VICI. It was like last January, right, So that was the weird moment. But that that day I was coming from them world. My wife and I have gone festivals and all kinds of stuff, So that was a cool moment. You know, just even modern day heroes. But it is strange in this world, like you know, we're around artists all the time, but the celebrities that kind of like shake you up are sometimes the ones that people are like, really, that's the one that got you? Yeah for me, Like some people are like better than Ezra. I'm twenty six, I don't know who that is? Like man that they were. They were one of my favorites. I'm thirty six. So that era of pop coming out of alternative in the poppy side of it, you know, that was pretty important in my high school. The E d M thing, which you know, you have a vast medium background. I don't understand E d M come from Arkansas. D ms like soccer to me. I know, it's awesome. I don't get it. You have it in Arkansas. Well, it's weird thing. Our genre and country is starting to have little sub genres, and d M is a lot like that. I mean, you've got all kinds of different aspects. You guys like like Kigo, who would be called tropical house and it's a little bit more that's a kind of medium tropical house. And then you've got guys like Z, who is sort of like, you know, future based influenced or you know, all kinds of weird subt What sub genre would Z be in your mind if you had to assign one to them? Um probably came from this like genre called complex trow, which was like the really complex music or songs like Stay or Middle would be sort of like future base or future pop. So that so what's the dance music. Dance music is basically like saying country music. Okay, analogy. So you've got inside country music right now? Is I love it? Because every any day I could write, you know, maybe this is gonna be a pitch to if Midland wrote, you know, cut outside songs, this is gonna go to Midland. Or then it's Kenny Chesney. And then we've got so you've got Mayorn, Kasey Musgraves and Chris who maybe are the same kind of the The only country hours that are going to play Bonary of Coachella could maybe be Chris Marin Casey. You've got the Sam Hunts and the Thomas rhettz Um, you've got the Luke Holmes and maybe um Luke Bryant's and and Cam Brown like all these little kind of corners inside this umbrella of country music. I wish our genre was called Americana. I know there is Americana genre, but to me, the common thread of country music is Americana subject matter. I think Americana is country is old school country music. Yes, I've often said that to people will what country music is not the same. I think that Americana is what people are searching for when they go country. This is a country anymore? Amiss my old country cool it still exists. It's called Americana. It's awesome, absolutely, Jason Nizbel's crushing it. And start there's so many artists that I read on seven Country Music. I thought I get to know Abouch of the American acts because he's like, why aren't this country? It doesn't matter what you call it. Well, here's the other thing that drives me crazy, because we hear this a lot, you know, and I love all aspects of our genre, you know, And unfortunately I've had the ability or or the privilege of work with a lot of different corners of this country music family. But you know, when you go back to think about the seventies, the Eagles were probably more country than some country yartists at the time. You know, Glenn Campbell was doing some pretty slick sounding pop songs, you know. So I think that sometimes people you hear the same thing. Radio is not our music sounds give as it used to be, or you know, countries not country anymore. There's plenty of true sational country music on country radio right now, and there's you know, all kinds of really cool stuff happening. You just kind of have to listen and be a little bit open minded. I feel like if people ever stop saying that something sucks, that that's the death of that's something, because that's not moving forward. Just in my experience and talking with artists and producers, and I used the Garth reference a lot in this subject because that's the one everyone will resonate to. Garth Brooks. Garth Brooks, and I've sat with Garth and he says, man, when I came to down I wasn't country to anyone. And to think that Garth Brooks was told you're not country, because he's the standard. Now it's okay, let's hear because we go nineties countries country. Anyone that's from forty eight to thirty one kind of goes, this is what country is young young when we were kids and so because born so the nineties countries a big deal for me, and so Guarths like, I was a country and people hate it and they said you're not country. So okay, that's that's happened. Every generation was something, you know, from the guards to the even before I got like urban cowboy stuff. But the Arabic cowboy that cross over the pop and so if there's ever a format that goes, oh, we're just we're oh, it's still good, that means a hasn't moved, right, and that's the depth of it. It's kind of like indie rock, right like if if if something gets too commercial, there's a fan base that's off of it. And I think every genre has kind of got that. I mean, you know, urban music has got the same thing, where there's certain rappers that are not really respected by the hip hop community because it's like to commercial to everybody hates hate on logic or or macamore or what. I love logic. There's a documentary called uh, It's a documentary series called Rapture on Netflix, and he's I think he's the first segment. But he's a hustler. Man. I appreciate anyone that grinds hard. I love commercial music, so I'm kind of the guy that, you know, I can appreciate left us enter things like a Frank Ocean or whatever. But I like hooks in any format. I don't care if it's dance music, hip hop. That's why I loved nineties hip hop so much, because it was so hook based. And song based. So to me, I think anything that is commercial mind hiden, I gravitate towards I really don't. I'm not really a hater of anything that's commercial because that's what I love. That's what I loved, right. But if I'm in the car listening, I want to listen to the hooky song on that indie pop record that's probably the single. But you represent the people. And it's hard to be an artist and a person because when you're creating art, you start to get in the head of the artist and and it's a It's something I have trouble doing too. I say, I walk the fine line. Sometimes I'm way too consumer and sometimes I'm way too in the weeds with the music and I but I just try to find that that balance. Well, that's funny when we did the I heeart thing, you you know too in an interview. This is probably a little bit more inside than if we were. But it's interesting how you even kind of can steer those conversations to make sure that you you kind of know what the fans want to hear, You know your you know what your audience is curious about anyway, right, So, and it's interesting that I noticed in that setting, you catch yourself rambling on things and you're like, wow, this is really what they want to hear about this album, you know, especially on different platforms. Actually that was you know, probably three million people listening at that moment to a radio station, which is very mass appeal right where this they're tuning in because they want to know Level three, Right, that's level one, they were big. Level two is cool, listen to the tracts, but they want to know why the tracts are made and who's making them and writing them. So yeah, I mean I think that's you know, you have your insane here. I think my only talent one is just working hard. Like that's yeah, I mean that's what that's my skill is just working hard. But to just I think I represent the people. And that's why I try to stay on the consumer parts so much because if I'm ever too cool, I've lost everything. Sure nobody cares. Like you can be one of the industry or you can be one of the people, right, And I just try to be seventy of the people because I'm too close to it to be all the time. But I just try to hit that see seventy PC and I'm still one of the people, absolutely while still having a studio in your house and an awesome songwriters producers come over and talk about that. But it's a hard actually makes you even more valuable as a friend to an artist too because of that that bridge, Like you said, that's the reason why someone like Thomas wants to go. What do you think about this? Because you are, like you said, of the people I don't even like and Thomas try. It's different because we have a friendship. That's a bit, you know, it's it's a little age to it at this point, but yeah, I don't even I don't listen to I can't listen to new music unless it comes out, I won't listen to it. Artists will come and they'll tape an interview. That's gotta be hard to like. I've had this conversation with um me and uh dam will go to to coffee with different people, but I've sat down with like label heads and been like, it's different than publishing and publishing. We signed songwriters that we're gonna work with and we kind of relate to. They may be different than we are, but I think it'd be hard sometimes to be ahead of a label and sign something that you don't necessarily understand. But you see people at the show, and it's got to be hard for you to like not have a bias. I would think, well, I don't think there's ever not a bias. I just weren't. We as humans aren't built for non bias. It's knowing your bias that's been my strength. Like I know artists that personally I just don't like. If I love their music, so I have to go like I wouldn't care Fela Ditch, but man, they put out some great music. But I know my bias before I hear it, and I go, I don't think they're a good person, but I know that going before I pit play, I know I already don't like them, so let me try to remove that as much possible. Or it's the other way. I have friends that I love and they have they'll put it turn out and I'll go, all right, I love them like I'm my favorite people, So I gotta eliminate that. But I think we as humans we have this this natural bias towards anything and everything, even bias of things we don't know. We have biased towards. But for me, it's like waking up a three o'clock in the morning. It makes me better to have a rule set that I wake up at three. There's no option to hit any sort of you know, snooze, the same thing to listen to the songs. I just don't. If you say I'm not doing it, then no one expects you to do it anymore. Artists will come in and they'll go, hey, we're gonna take three days early for album premiere because we're not gonna be a town And I go, cool, just so you know, I haven't heard a thing unless you put it out as a single. So it does put me in those situations sometimes where I don't know, but I'm just up front about it. Sure, and at this point I think people accept it. They did it for a long time. I thought it was a huge douche. They were like, hey, man, listen to freaking music. I was like, well, you don't understand. I don't want to be able to talk about like my people. Sure hear it, Yes, a new discovery. Yeah, And sometimes like tomorrow you got Sam Hunk coming out right, Yes, And I haven't heard a song. I've heard the hook that they sent and that I played on the show. That it was like other than that, I haven't heard the song, and they said, do you want to hear it? No, I want to hear it. Five am. I'll play it for the first time. But it will come out at midnight. Okay, I won't be awake, but it will be available at midnight, and I'll listen to it on the way. But someone will put out a record like the must Casey Muscraft the album that's my favorite record this year. That in the Lanco album with the brothers Osborne Records. We did um she did an album listening party at the planetarium. Do you hear about this? I did? I heard about it. I think Marion and Lucy Silva's were there, so that's how I heard about it. We wrote a song on there, a song called wonder Woman. Me and Hillary and Amy watching and and it was amazing, like just the it's so Casey too. We're all sitting in the planetarium and they had visuals for every single song and just lean back and watch. It was pretty cool. But that's an amazing record. The record comes out and I wanted to hear the whole thing to talk about it, but only had time to hear like four songs before I went on the air. So I think that's what happens to normal people. Sure, they wake up they want to hear a whole record, but they have time to listen a whole record before they go to work or that day or that week, taking your four songs. So I just try to be a yeah, that's my point. I tried to be that's pretty strong. It's such a oh, I love the record. You got a favorite. It's the first song. And it feels silly to say, but there's something about that song that or high Horse or something. But I actually high Horse on the air. That's amazing. But people go, oh, high Horses, you know a seventies bgs. It's not anymore non country than anything else that's getting played. Man, whatever non country means. It's even it sounds like a country song with you know, it's some seventies yeah whatever, what whats that? Acondemy called dance music a little bit, but it was a little disco in It's great. It is bs influence. She It's funny because that was one of the influences. I think for making that record that that should be the song that because you have to go to different places with different songs, and we're in the next five years they're all going to be split off into their own major awesome sections. Meaning right now songwriters are mostly getting paid from radio. There's gonna be a point where the streaming lifts because it has to, and maybe radio falls a bit, and even podcast. It's such the wild West in music right now. It's not that laws aren't being adhered to, they just haven't been created yet because it's also new. And even the one that just is, I think it's in the house right now, it's about to pass. The problem with some of the laws that are coming out is that are so far behind that even when we do have a nice nature of a law though it's true, it's true, and there's so many things. Let me look at the country as a whole. We're going through all these kinds of craziness. So for us to expect the legislation in the music industry to be up to par, it's a little crazy. You ask my favorite track on the Muscrab's album, I love it so much. I didn't take one song off of my list. And most times I get a record, even records I really like, I go, there's one or two songs i'll wipe away. I didn't unwipe one song. My favorite song is probably because I'm I'm a sucker for a sappy love song or a sad song. I think, Oh what a world. Yeah that's and then there was you. I'll come on. They have a vocoder in there. I mean, the whole album is very seventies influenced. Daniel Tashan and Ian Fitzchick did the production on it. They did it at um R Crow's at the Barn and Barn like I know, like I hang out with you. I've just heard so many people talk about but yeah, and I think I read Kasi talking about she had spent a lot of time over there. Pretty cool album this is. Yeah, it's such a good record. Are you Are you gonna put out a record? You can try to do an artist thing? No, man, we looked at it at times. You do the feature things or like do you know me me Ashley. I've even talked about just doing something like that. But I'll do I may do some more. We sometimes I'll go out in DJ. The life changes when he does the home team runs where it's he's the headliner. So I might do some of that. Stuff, But I really don't have any like aspirations to do anything like that. Was it what's your instrument? Um? I play a little bit of piano. I played a little bit of guitar. Um. I kind of came up. You know what we call programming, so making tracks? Um? So sometimes I think the computers an instrument. Yeah, I'm not a guy that hates on the computer either. The computers have always been an instrument in different ways. When we first started this track producers writer producers has been going on in music for decades and decades, but when it first started happening in Nashville, people kind of didn't understand it because we would basically would write a song and then we would go to a studio and do a demo recording, a demonstration recording, and we would hire players and play it, and then we would take that demo and play it for artists or record labels. Well, what a writer producer would do like today, for instance, I'll either have tracks already made that if I played them for you guys or the audience that just sounds like instrumental karaoke tracks. And so if we go out with Thomas, I'll have ten to twenty tracks stockpiled anything from this one sounds like you know, old R and B. This one sounds like you know, post Malone country or whatever it is, and all these different influences and play him for them. And sometimes we'll go from scratch sounds like Marry Me or Unforgettable. We built from scratch. But as we're sort of writing, we're sort of building up the music around it as well. So my main instrument is sort of all of them. In a way. I'm a terrible musician, but I just was able to kind of understand manipulating the sounds and the computers, and I love all kinds of genres, so kind of getting from all those little pieces and you know, pick up an organ here, piano here, make this sound like brass horns or whatever it is. It's funny you say that you're a terrible musician, much like I feel like I'm terrible on the radio, like I really do. I'm not good at talking. So but I think having a weakness at a lot of things makes you super strong another area, because you have to learn to compensate or you just die. Like you wouldn't be to this level if you didn't find a way to compensate for what you're calling weakness. I've done that in a radio. It's not because of my voice, not because I'm super funny, but I think the weaknesses create this place. Well, I must survive and then thrive, and that's what you've done, and being able to suck at all the other things you've been able to do it in a different way. I feel like I don't have the you know, Hillary Lindsay, prolific, you know brain. Um, I'm very involved lyrically writing in the room, so I'm not just music. I've spin the chair around. We're top lining all the time, or top lining being Melie and lyrics as well. But I do feel like I am a hard worker. I'm a hustler and I love the kind of the aim of it to the business of music. So a lot of times, once we're done writing a song, that's just the first part of it. I mean, you know what goes into picking a single, I means, and what goes into it is I have no idea. And as soon as you people start to go here's the thing, Jesse, people will go, oh, I can tell you what song is gonna be a hit. And as someone who has broken many songs and many I have no idea, and I think that's what makes me the smartest man. I'm like Socrates music. You know what Socrates new, it's martcause he didn't know, and he knew he didn't know. I don't know crap. I just hear something to go oh, and I'll see some of these radio pds, I go oh, I can tell a hit? No, what was shut up? No? I don't think. I don't think the artists can tell. I think they're like I said, the writers, how the song go? Today? Wife will say, well, I don't know. I'll have to listen to it tomorrow. Like you're too close to it in the room. We did something that we liked today, you feel like it's catchy, but it's a hit. None of us know. I just mean that I do love the game, all those little things we talked about, the charts, the business of it. I'm a business minded person as well, so I love helping other writers form brands and pitching their music and anything that kind of gets me away from just the creative brain. Sometimes it's nice, but I do that like that grind is It helps us absolutely, It makes us again. It makes us smarter at everything else because why you're hustling. We have to really we have to understand. Okay, well I only have so much energy. Where do I put what? Absolutely, so you've got to be in bed by eight thirty tonight. I'm gonna make sure there. I just finished my first full job of eight hours by eleven o'clock. You know what, Most people have been up a couple of hours. But yeah, I'm a big fan of you man, especially talking with you more. I haven't really enjoyed this. Well, we'll have to get out sneakers for certain. The size of you, by the way, unless you asked me publicly, and I'm a nineteen right, yeah, you know what I'm saying. Can you imagine if you saw Shaquille O'Neill next to you peeing, and usually because i'm five six on a with you know a little bit of a heel, it's okay. So if you saw Chaquilla peeing at a yurnal would you look and see how big? Just talking, because I've always said I would, I'm absolutely curious. I would like to see how big skill and the winer is. He's seven foot four. That makes just going from would you look or not I'd be scared cheers, I mean, would be empowering giant, like not even want to see it, though It'd be worth it to me even if he catches me and get a couple of shots there. I would like to look down to see his oener because how big is the seven said? Okay, even that even that way, Yeah for sure. Did you watch wrestling? How Mike is just it's like fat chick? Oh yeah, in fact you were. I went to this thing that had canceled Cruis the Travel. I think that was awesome what mcfolo was talking and given it and I was gonna go. Ben Vaughan had invited me. And it's all about the Helen, was it? Helen? The cage Helen? The whole thing is about this one event and how it changed his life. And so it was really interesting. Actually I'm super jail. I really wanted to go. It was another one coming up, the Honky Tonk Man. I think he's doing the Honky Tonk Man's coming to town, Luken, do you even know Honky tong Man is? So he'd looked like Elvis and he danced with a guitar and he was the name the Howckey talk and he bust the guitar over them. And it was not a real guitar, but he bust the guitar over them. Yeah, I'm a wrestling nerve. Have you seen the Andre Oh, it's awesome, It's I felt sad. It's pretty tragic. Actually, I felt sad because there's a difference in the Andre the Giant documentary and the Rick Flair one. Have you seen? You feel sad for it? But here's the difference of the two without running it for you, is that Rick Flair did a lot of that to himself. He put himself in a situation that he wasn't able to create relationships and bonds, and it's very It is sad. Andre the John was born that way like he was when he kept growing and the next thing you know, he you know, seven foot tall, his body's going faster than he can keep up with what they're there. You know, he's based your cartoon character. Yeah, they're shipping him around circus actor and he can't use urnal in the airplanes. They have to build a curtain around him. How crazy is that? So some of those kind of moments are it's just pretty heartbreaking, But that was pretty well done. Do you million dollar man him, Yeah, I think his son wrestles now could be I think so. Well, listen, I would go for two hours. I really appreciate. I'm fan and thanks for putting songwriters and do at this man. I've enjoyed this one. Okay, So anything you'd like to tell people to consume right now? Uh? Well, life changes is out? Um what else we have? Lady Annabelle? Heartbreaks out? Um? You that record? I just wrote that heartbreak? You're at a single? Yeah? Uh did you write that one? Nicole Galleon, We're actually down in Florida with Lady all of us wrote that. Well, everyone stream by tell your friends thanks for listening to all styles of country music, country music and it's all country music, it's all subgenres. Well, it's been great, Thank you very much. Seeing my friend right. Thanks Mike